1 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:10,920 Speaker 1: Yell from Gimblet Media. This is Jonathan Goldstein, your old pal. 2 00:00:11,960 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 2: Is that is that was called Gimblet Gimblet Media. 3 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:17,560 Speaker 1: That's correct. It sounds like giblets the inside of a chicken, 4 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:21,720 Speaker 1: like all the innerds. Well, everybody loves giblets. You Oh shit, 5 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:22,520 Speaker 1: they're my kids. 6 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:23,680 Speaker 3: Hey guys, I'm up here. 7 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 1: Do you know what my new podcast is about. I know, 8 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:30,000 Speaker 1: I don't know anything about it. Each week I travel 9 00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 1: into people's pasts to help them repair something that's been 10 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 1: troubling them. M hm. I'm sort of like a therapist. 11 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:38,400 Speaker 4: Like a therapist. 12 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:46,760 Speaker 1: So yeah, do you find out? Do you find that funny? 13 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:47,599 Speaker 3: I just think supportive. 14 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 1: That's the laughter of support. 15 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 2: I think it's great. 16 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:51,120 Speaker 5: I think it's great. 17 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:53,440 Speaker 1: Do you have any questions for me about what my 18 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:55,360 Speaker 1: show is and what it's going to be? 19 00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 2: Like, what's the name of your show? What's the name 20 00:00:59,480 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 2: of your show? 21 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 4: Yes, we're gonna go now, but Johnson's just about tell 22 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 4: me the name of his new show. 23 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:05,320 Speaker 1: As soon as he tells me, I'm going to bang 24 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:06,680 Speaker 1: down on him in five. 25 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:10,119 Speaker 2: Remember that, yes, to hang. 26 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 1: Up the phone on each other. Okay, ready, Yes, the 27 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:17,920 Speaker 1: name of the show is Heavyweight Heavyweight, You get It? 28 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 6: Two one. 29 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:30,959 Speaker 1: Hello. Hello from Gimblet Media. I'm Jonathan Goldstein and this 30 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:34,800 Speaker 1: is Heavyweight Today's episode Buzz. 31 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:40,840 Speaker 2: Hello, Hey Dad, Hi Johnny. 32 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:44,720 Speaker 1: Hey, how you doing good? You good good good? Yum 33 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:47,319 Speaker 1: tip SAMEA. 34 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 2: What's that meaning? 35 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 1: I'm not sure. This is my father Buzz. I'm calling 36 00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 1: him at his home in Montreal. And the reason we're 37 00:01:57,320 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 1: talking crazy talk is because it's young Kipper the Jewish 38 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:03,400 Speaker 1: day of Atonement, which seems as good a day as 39 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:08,920 Speaker 1: any to talk with him about forgiveness. So I wanted to. 40 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:11,480 Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you something and I just wanted 41 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 1: to gauge your interest. YEA, how would you feel about 42 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 1: paying your brother Sheldon a visit? 43 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:23,079 Speaker 2: I have no feelings by I'm not really interested. 44 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:24,640 Speaker 4: You're not. 45 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:26,559 Speaker 2: No. 46 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:31,280 Speaker 1: My father Buzz is eighty and his brother, Sheldon, his 47 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 1: only sibling, is eighty five, and for the past forty 48 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 1: years they've pretty much been on the outs. My father 49 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:43,400 Speaker 1: lives in Montreal and Sheldon lives in Florida, and the 50 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:45,920 Speaker 1: last time they saw each other over twenty years ago 51 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:48,600 Speaker 1: was at their mother's funeral when they had a fight 52 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:52,960 Speaker 1: over the details of the arrangements. Since then, they've hardly spoken. 53 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:57,680 Speaker 1: It worries me because there's not a lot of time left, 54 00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 1: and I don't want my father to have regrets. When 55 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:02,800 Speaker 1: the subject of his brother comes up, as it often 56 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:06,360 Speaker 1: has over the years, my father feels competing things. He 57 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:09,800 Speaker 1: grows angry or defensive, but other times he'll become sad 58 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:13,480 Speaker 1: and remorseful. And it's the sorrow and the remorse that 59 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:16,520 Speaker 1: I like best, because it's these feelings that I believe 60 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 1: speak to his better self, the self I want to encourage. 61 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:22,680 Speaker 1: I'm not surprised that you're not jumping at the idea, 62 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:26,400 Speaker 1: but I'm a little surprised that yours against the idea. 63 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, time's passed. He hasn't shown much interest, so I'm 64 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:33,080 Speaker 2: respecting that and I leave alone. 65 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:36,840 Speaker 1: What he did do was he he called you on 66 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 1: your eightieth birthday not so long ago, and you. 67 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:42,840 Speaker 2: Felt good about it to him on his eightieth birthday. 68 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 1: This kind of tit for tat accounting is what always 69 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 1: gets in the way. There's been a competition between the 70 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 1: brothers since I was a kid. I remember how in 71 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 1: my grandmother's small New York kitchen, Sheldon and Buzz got 72 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 1: into an argument about who could do the most push ups, 73 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 1: and the next thing I knew, my father was pulling 74 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 1: off his shirt and dropping to the kitchen floor in 75 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 1: his undershirt. My mother, not used to seeing the side 76 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:10,680 Speaker 1: of him, stood over my father, flapping a dishtowel hysterically 77 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 1: while begging him to the point of tears to please stop. 78 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 1: Now you go, my father said, rising from the floor 79 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 1: when he was done. But Sheldon shook his head with 80 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 1: a smile. It was like he didn't even think my 81 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:24,600 Speaker 1: father was worth the effort. 82 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 2: You know what it is at this point with him, 83 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 2: I'll tell you what it is. I don't think it's 84 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 2: even anger. He's past anger, and he's passed any feelings 85 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 2: of animosity. He's passed that. He just doesn't care. Yeah, 86 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:42,440 Speaker 2: you know, that's apathy. I mean, sometimes at least hate 87 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:47,919 Speaker 2: or love their emotions. Apathy is nothing. Yeah, you know what. 88 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 2: Johnny as a child, even when I was ten, when 89 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 2: I was nine, and I was crazy about him. We 90 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:57,240 Speaker 2: had a great you know, I loved him. He was 91 00:04:57,240 --> 00:04:58,040 Speaker 2: the older brother. 92 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:01,120 Speaker 1: He was hello, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm listening. 93 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 2: Uh, you know. I just looked up to him, and 94 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 2: he had older friends. Sometimes he'd take me along with 95 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 2: him and he was good, Hey, somebody trying to somebody 96 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:14,040 Speaker 2: trying to call here, binging me here. 97 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:17,880 Speaker 1: Don't you see, Buzz? It's father time? Who is bringing 98 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:22,520 Speaker 1: you here? And Buzz loses track of time. Air Conditioners 99 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 1: remain boxed all through July, and expired coupons from the 100 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:30,039 Speaker 1: mid nineties make plump his wallet, so I worry he'll 101 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 1: put off reaching out to Sheldon until it's too late. 102 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 1: The most complicated question, the one I keep coming back to, 103 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 1: is how did the bad blood begin? And there are 104 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:47,280 Speaker 1: many versions. An ill fated trip to Montreal where Sheldon 105 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 1: felt slighted about having to stay in my father's basement, 106 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 1: an ill fated trip to New York where my father 107 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 1: felt slighted about having to stay in Sheldon's attic, rude 108 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 1: words spoken to each other's wives. In one version of 109 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 1: the story, Sheldon's refusal to bring a table to my 110 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:05,799 Speaker 1: brists almost resulted in my being circumcised on an ironing board. 111 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 1: But in the version being told today, my father was 112 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 1: asked by Sheldon to pay more than his fair share 113 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:14,040 Speaker 1: for their mother's funeral, and. 114 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:16,560 Speaker 2: I said, you always working some kind of an angle, 115 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:20,840 Speaker 2: So he got furious. He got furious, He started screaming 116 00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 2: into the phone, go to hell, drop dead, bye ba by, 117 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:28,599 Speaker 2: And that was how that ended. But I feel he's 118 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 2: the kind of guy that the gun he has angles 119 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:35,320 Speaker 2: like that, you know he has angles. I always felt 120 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:36,640 Speaker 2: I was on the up and up with him and 121 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 2: he wasn't with me. 122 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:41,080 Speaker 1: If you've got a stronger sense that he was interested 123 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 1: in seeing you, then would you yes, yes, you would 124 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 1: be my granting. 125 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:48,880 Speaker 2: I wouldn't play the house though, that's out of the question. 126 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:52,960 Speaker 1: Okay, quick sidebar. Anytime I've ever raised the prospect of 127 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:56,720 Speaker 1: visiting Sheldon, no matter how hypothetical the scenario, my father 128 00:06:56,800 --> 00:06:59,719 Speaker 1: always makes a point of insisting, how no matter what, 129 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:03,480 Speaker 1: he would not stay in Sheldon's house, even if he 130 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:07,159 Speaker 1: was invited to which I should point out he never is. 131 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:11,280 Speaker 2: I wouldn't stay at his house. How come you I 132 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 2: wouldn't stay there, I mean, not my thing? 133 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 1: How come you always bring that up? I mean, normally, 134 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 1: when someone goes to visit someone that they haven't seen 135 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:21,960 Speaker 1: in decades, don't stay at a hotel. 136 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:22,320 Speaker 4: You know. 137 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 2: I would stay at a motel or somewhere near hetel. 138 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 4: Yeah. 139 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:28,800 Speaker 1: No, we'd get a place, you know with an ice machine, 140 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:31,040 Speaker 1: and uh, you know why you want to. 141 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:32,679 Speaker 2: You're interested in making a trip. 142 00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm interested. Do you think that there's anything 143 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:44,480 Speaker 1: to be gained in seeing him? 144 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 7: Hm? 145 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 2: I guess there's something then, you know, you share your 146 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 2: common experience and talk about the old days, and there 147 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 2: are things that only he and I can remember. You know, yeah, 148 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 2: you know you What you could do is you could 149 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:05,840 Speaker 2: call him and see what what what what his attitude is? 150 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 2: You know, it depends on you, know how how how 151 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 2: how you feel, what kind of receptions you get. 152 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:15,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I would. I would be happy to 153 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:15,400 Speaker 1: do that. 154 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 2: I like your initial suggestion that you call him, feel 155 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 2: him out, and see what he's like. 156 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:26,080 Speaker 1: Okay, I didn't suggest that, but you you suggested that. 157 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:29,160 Speaker 2: I like that just because you'll give me an honest 158 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 2: you'll give me an honest reaction. 159 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:34,720 Speaker 1: I'm happy to do it. But I mean, what what 160 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 1: what are you looking for from from? What do you 161 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:38,760 Speaker 1: want to hear from him? 162 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 2: I missed my brother. I would like to see him. Okay, 163 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 2: that's all. 164 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:47,160 Speaker 1: Okay, you understand, and you come back. 165 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:48,840 Speaker 2: On me with an honest evaluation. 166 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:04,280 Speaker 8: Hello, Sheldon, Yeah, speaking hi that it was quite a 167 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:10,840 Speaker 8: shock getting your phone call. You said, Johnath. Yeah, my 168 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:14,679 Speaker 8: hearing is not that great, okay, And when I heard 169 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:17,800 Speaker 8: the first message, I'm saying, who the heck is that? 170 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:19,960 Speaker 8: I don't know anybody by that name. 171 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 1: Sheldon now lives outside of Fort Lauderdale, but my few 172 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:26,240 Speaker 1: memories of him are from when he lived in upstate 173 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 1: New York. I remember he lived in a trailer. I 174 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:31,720 Speaker 1: remember that he worked at a local prison, that he 175 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:34,520 Speaker 1: smoked cigars, that he looked a little like my father, 176 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:37,760 Speaker 1: but was hunched, like the world was weighing down on him. 177 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:40,200 Speaker 1: And he always wore this expression on his face that 178 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:44,960 Speaker 1: seemed to say, you gotta be kidding me. You're keeping okay, 179 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:46,120 Speaker 1: you're keeping occupied. 180 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:51,720 Speaker 8: Yeah, I read a lot. I going to gym. I 181 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:55,440 Speaker 8: go shopping. Hi, you know, here and there, little things 182 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:56,319 Speaker 8: here and there. 183 00:09:56,840 --> 00:09:59,000 Speaker 1: And so you still go. How often you go to. 184 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:01,040 Speaker 7: The gym three times a week? 185 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 2: Wow? 186 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:03,880 Speaker 1: And what kind of stuff do you do there? 187 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:05,560 Speaker 7: Well? 188 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:11,880 Speaker 8: I do about twenty minutes of aerobics, uh huh, and 189 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:15,720 Speaker 8: then I do a little weight training. I try to 190 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:17,800 Speaker 8: flirt a little with the women there. 191 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 1: Oh yeah. My father also goes to the gym. That's 192 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 1: a part of his routine. Also, he was he was 193 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:31,080 Speaker 1: happy to hear from you on his eightieth birthday. 194 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:37,080 Speaker 8: Yeah, well he didn't call me on my eighty. 195 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:42,800 Speaker 1: Fifth though, tit meet tat Yeah, like, so, you know, 196 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 1: maybe we could go out for dinner. I don't know 197 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:47,840 Speaker 1: that kind of thing. 198 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 9: Uh huh. 199 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:56,079 Speaker 8: Well, what kind of time frame are we talking about here? 200 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:10,160 Speaker 9: I don't know. Our lives have been much different. I 201 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:14,199 Speaker 9: don't know how much we have to have in common anymore. 202 00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, we don't have. 203 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:22,480 Speaker 9: We don't have much in common anymore except the fact 204 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:25,199 Speaker 9: that we're elderly and retired. 205 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:27,439 Speaker 7: Other than that, I don't. 206 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:28,600 Speaker 9: Know what we have in common. 207 00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 1: You have your past in common? 208 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 10: Yes, I'll tell you honestly. I'm not a very sentimental person, 209 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:45,320 Speaker 10: and I think, and I being a pragmatist, I take 210 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:49,840 Speaker 10: things the way they are. I try not to dwell 211 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:56,319 Speaker 10: upon the past, and I try not to take people 212 00:11:56,800 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 10: the way I remember them, but as they are. 213 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:04,080 Speaker 1: Do you think that makes things easier. 214 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:07,520 Speaker 7: Makes things easier for me? 215 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:15,679 Speaker 1: Yeah? Do other people around you? Sometimes? Doesn't make it 216 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:18,240 Speaker 1: harder for other people around you ever. 217 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:25,960 Speaker 9: To be honest with you, I've been in the last 218 00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:27,840 Speaker 9: few years. I've been a loner. 219 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 7: You would basically almost call me a recluse. I don't 220 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:40,760 Speaker 7: socialize with many people, and I really don't give a 221 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:42,520 Speaker 7: damn what anybody thinks. 222 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:45,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, and. 223 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 9: Contrary to popular believe, I like. 224 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:56,680 Speaker 7: Being alone by myself. I get along with myself very well. 225 00:12:57,160 --> 00:12:58,439 Speaker 4: Yeah. 226 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:02,800 Speaker 9: Look, I don't want to be rude. Yeah, yeah, but 227 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 9: I want to go have my lunch. 228 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:07,640 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, that's fine. It's fine, Sheldon. I 229 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:11,599 Speaker 1: appreciate your talking to me, and you would be amenable 230 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:14,439 Speaker 1: to spending some time. 231 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:20,160 Speaker 9: Why not. We are brothers. I mean, we're not closer 232 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:24,200 Speaker 9: or anything, but you know we're not going to have. 233 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:26,880 Speaker 7: A chance to see each other much in the future. 234 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:34,559 Speaker 1: Yeah, is that anything that you think about? 235 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:38,360 Speaker 9: Not much now? 236 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:44,199 Speaker 1: And so I call my father back and let him 237 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:48,000 Speaker 1: know that Sheldon is amenable. And because I know that 238 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 1: for my father the days tend to pile up like 239 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:53,400 Speaker 1: unboxed air conditioners, I have my mother get on the 240 00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 1: phone to help nail down a firm travel date. 241 00:13:56,679 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 2: And Daddy wants to go. 242 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:00,600 Speaker 1: If Dad wants to go, if he wants. 243 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:02,960 Speaker 2: To go next weekend. 244 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:05,200 Speaker 1: We don't have to go on the weekend. We can 245 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:06,120 Speaker 1: go during the week. 246 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:14,800 Speaker 2: Yeah. Comes, as you know, you caught me off. God, 247 00:14:17,559 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 2: how about it. I'll call you Wednesday or Thursday. 248 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:23,280 Speaker 1: How's that today's Monday or yeah, or even if you 249 00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 1: feel like calling tomorrow, you can call me. 250 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, I'll probably I'll call you at the latest Thursday. 251 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 1: To get the Thursday at the latest. That's three days 252 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:43,360 Speaker 1: from today. Okay, all right, you do what you want 253 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:45,160 Speaker 1: to do. You call me, but I'll call you a 254 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:52,560 Speaker 1: Thursday coming up after the break Thursday, and so on Thursday, 255 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:56,160 Speaker 1: possibly with a little nudging for my mother, Buzz agrees. 256 00:14:56,600 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 1: And then my father and I are off to Florida 257 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:03,000 Speaker 1: to the at my uncle Sheldon too, and then you 258 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:06,800 Speaker 1: have an address, Yeah I do, Okay. My dad and 259 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:09,600 Speaker 1: I meet up at the Fort Lauderdale Airport. I flew 260 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:12,640 Speaker 1: from New York and my dad from Montreal. My father's 261 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:15,320 Speaker 1: all dressed up, wearing a faux Swaede sports jacket that 262 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:18,440 Speaker 1: I've never seen him in. We grab our airport rental 263 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:21,360 Speaker 1: and prepare for the two hour drive to Sheldon in 264 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 1: the ninety degree heat. It's immediately made clear that faux 265 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:27,160 Speaker 1: swayed might not have been the best fashioned choice. 266 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:29,120 Speaker 2: It's like we're on a safari. 267 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:34,760 Speaker 1: On the road to Sheldon's. My father will experience a 268 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:38,640 Speaker 1: spectrum of feelings. As we first set out, there's excitement. 269 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 5: You know, my brother was funny in a lot of ways. 270 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 2: I could laugh. 271 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:44,400 Speaker 5: We're gonna have laughed with him, you know what I mean. 272 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:45,760 Speaker 5: He's a very funny man. 273 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:48,720 Speaker 1: A half an hour in and there's bitterness. 274 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:52,280 Speaker 5: We invited him to your Moments and he returned a 275 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:56,840 Speaker 5: very cold card. Sorry we will not be attending. It 276 00:15:57,000 --> 00:16:00,400 Speaker 5: was you know, so mean, you know what I mean? 277 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:01,240 Speaker 5: Even the writing. 278 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:05,200 Speaker 1: An hour in and how is buzz feeling. 279 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 4: I'm relaxed. 280 00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:08,960 Speaker 5: I'm kind of old to get anxious, you know what 281 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 5: I'm meaning. 282 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:11,200 Speaker 1: Half an hour to Sheldon's. 283 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:13,120 Speaker 4: A little bit apprehensive now. 284 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, ten minutes to Sheldon's and buzzes feeling all right, Yeah, 285 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:23,160 Speaker 1: he's feeling a little. 286 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:23,880 Speaker 4: Uh. 287 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:27,360 Speaker 5: It's gonna be strange. Yeah, it's gonna be very strange. 288 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 5: I mean, the man is a stranger to me now, 289 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:31,760 Speaker 5: and yet he's my brother. 290 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:32,600 Speaker 4: You understand. 291 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:33,960 Speaker 5: It's a very strange feeling. 292 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:41,920 Speaker 6: Yeah, I wonder if he's getting nervous, maybe because he's 293 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:53,200 Speaker 6: waiting for us, right, Yeah. 294 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:49,520 Speaker 1: You all set? 295 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:56,920 Speaker 11: Yeah, Oh it's hot, it's really hot. 296 00:16:57,040 --> 00:16:59,880 Speaker 1: Yeah. Sheldon lives in the corner house. On a quiet 297 00:16:59,880 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 1: suburban street. 298 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:03,640 Speaker 4: I guess. 299 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:06,680 Speaker 5: Is this his door? 300 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:18,720 Speaker 11: I'll double check, maybe, because there is. 301 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:21,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you. 302 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:25,440 Speaker 5: I smelled the good smell of cigar. 303 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:29,480 Speaker 4: They had become a monk. 304 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:34,560 Speaker 1: And after all the years and the worry and the dread, 305 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:37,720 Speaker 1: things seem to be going swimmingly. We sit down at 306 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:40,800 Speaker 1: Sheldon's kitchen table and my father gets right into it. 307 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:43,800 Speaker 4: Now, there's things I want to know. You said that 308 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:44,880 Speaker 4: Rainy died. 309 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:49,200 Speaker 1: The dead are a good place to begin as a subject. 310 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:52,400 Speaker 1: They're easily agreed upon and not likely to spark a fight. 311 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 4: The uncle died. The uncle died. He was the youngest brother. Oh, 312 00:17:57,080 --> 00:17:58,240 Speaker 4: he died long ago. 313 00:17:58,440 --> 00:17:58,960 Speaker 5: He died. 314 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:03,600 Speaker 4: Who died? Real prick. 315 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:11,320 Speaker 5: Yeah, I didn't know him that well, he didn't know Yeah, yeah, shocking. 316 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:14,400 Speaker 4: Yeah, he was fat. He was fat, red head. 317 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 5: Red head right, yeah, yeah, remember Johnny. Johnny was a 318 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:21,640 Speaker 5: sax man. 319 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:24,480 Speaker 4: John He would fuck a dog on the street if 320 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:26,840 Speaker 4: you sort of dog and try to fuck the dog. 321 00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:35,399 Speaker 4: Can I get your guys a cold beer? I'd like 322 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:37,520 Speaker 4: a beer, olive beer. 323 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:40,920 Speaker 1: Even though they're in their eighties, Sheldon and Buzz still 324 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:45,640 Speaker 1: possessed voices and temperaments suited to shouting out Brooklyn tenement windows. Well, 325 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:49,639 Speaker 1: my voice olive beer is best suited to asking a 326 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:55,040 Speaker 1: waitress if there will be a sharing charge. I forgot 327 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:55,480 Speaker 1: about that. 328 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:55,919 Speaker 7: Sorry. 329 00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:59,760 Speaker 1: Case in point this is Sheldon accidentally swiping a portable 330 00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:02,560 Speaker 1: mike her phone receiver off the kitchen table and me 331 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:04,000 Speaker 1: trying to smooth things over. 332 00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:06,280 Speaker 4: This off. Well, it's annoying. 333 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:08,760 Speaker 1: No, he just put it in the in your pocket there. 334 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:11,040 Speaker 4: Just take it off please. 335 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:15,480 Speaker 1: Over the next couple of days, my testes will flee 336 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:20,120 Speaker 1: like frightened cockroaches upward, ascending to heights not seen since 337 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:25,000 Speaker 1: the bar Mitzvah that Sheldon was not attending. And while 338 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:28,640 Speaker 1: we're on the subject of testes, here's Sheldon reminiscing about 339 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:31,040 Speaker 1: the time he was examined for a rupture by their 340 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:31,879 Speaker 1: family doctor. 341 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:36,240 Speaker 4: Me and Walie Rosen were joining the weightlifting Yeah, say, 342 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:39,800 Speaker 4: how to be tested for a rupture? Hey, I'm being 343 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:43,879 Speaker 4: put his hand onto my balls. I started left and 344 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:46,200 Speaker 4: so hot, I pissed right in his hand. 345 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:51,200 Speaker 2: Hey. 346 00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:54,200 Speaker 1: Over the years, I've seen my father in the role 347 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:57,560 Speaker 1: of husband, uncle, and grandfather, but I've never really seen 348 00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:00,119 Speaker 1: him in the role of younger brother. How odd to 349 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:03,320 Speaker 1: see it now? At eighty, he sits beside Sheldon with 350 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:06,760 Speaker 1: this expression I've never seen on his face. It's wide eyed, 351 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:14,440 Speaker 1: sweet and deferential. But as the day wears on, Sheldon 352 00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:17,840 Speaker 1: and Buzz began to squabble over their memories, fighting over 353 00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:18,960 Speaker 1: every little detail. 354 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:22,679 Speaker 5: Remember the hallabaloo we had with the diet haaddyet that 355 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:23,480 Speaker 5: heavy set. 356 00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:27,600 Speaker 4: Girl a manicurist. She was a head dying manicurist. No, 357 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:29,719 Speaker 4: she was a head dying. Here's what happened. She went 358 00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:30,280 Speaker 4: over to Earth. 359 00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:32,520 Speaker 1: They even argue over the death of their grandmother. 360 00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:34,119 Speaker 4: I found her body. 361 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:38,679 Speaker 5: My mother was across the street a Greenborough, I remember, 362 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:42,800 Speaker 5: and I knew she was dead. I never saw a 363 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:44,639 Speaker 5: dead body in my life, but I knew she was dead. 364 00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:49,719 Speaker 1: Sure, so wait till you found her, or you found her. 365 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 5: I remember looking in on the room and see how 366 00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:53,280 Speaker 5: I said, it was awfully whet. 367 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:58,280 Speaker 4: I found her, but let him no, I'm not some credit. 368 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:06,040 Speaker 1: The whole afternoon is like this. Every subject, even their 369 00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:10,160 Speaker 1: dead grandmother, somehow becomes fodder for another pissing match. They're 370 00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:12,800 Speaker 1: burning up all this time with small talk when what 371 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:16,480 Speaker 1: they need is some big talk. In particular, they need 372 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:18,399 Speaker 1: to address a story that I know who. It's a 373 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:21,359 Speaker 1: great deal of meaning for my father. It took place 374 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:24,160 Speaker 1: in nineteen thirty nine, on the day their mother left them. 375 00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:27,520 Speaker 1: I've only ever heard the story from my father, never 376 00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:30,840 Speaker 1: from Sheldon. I wanted to ask what you remember, what 377 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:31,880 Speaker 1: your perspective? 378 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:36,879 Speaker 4: Well, I remember that time was when Pop was smacking 379 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:39,600 Speaker 4: Iran and she ran out in the hole and her. 380 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:44,720 Speaker 5: Slip fighting in the hole, he was smacking around. 381 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:47,439 Speaker 4: She ran out. Yeah, So what happened the next morning? 382 00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:51,760 Speaker 4: The next morning, Yeah, they look in a closet, her 383 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:53,080 Speaker 4: clothes were gone. She left. 384 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:58,960 Speaker 1: Oh what happened after this? And my father's telling is 385 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:01,720 Speaker 1: that his mother returned soon after she left with a 386 00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:02,960 Speaker 1: policeman in tow. 387 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:05,680 Speaker 5: And they came back to try to get you. 388 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:11,000 Speaker 4: They wanted you to come back with them, and where 389 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:13,680 Speaker 4: were you? I was there, but they were trying to 390 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:18,040 Speaker 4: drink you out of the house. You weren't trying to No. 391 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:21,640 Speaker 5: No, I can say with my father and grandma and mother. 392 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:24,840 Speaker 1: This is the point of the story. For my father. 393 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:28,840 Speaker 1: It proves once and for all how his mother loved 394 00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:32,280 Speaker 1: Sheldon more than she loved him. Sheldon didn't move out 395 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:35,840 Speaker 1: with her, and after a year their mother returned and together, 396 00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:39,080 Speaker 1: Buzz and Sheldon grew up under the same roof in 397 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:43,200 Speaker 1: the same bedroom, often sleeping under the same blankets, each 398 00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:46,320 Speaker 1: knowing who the mother had chosen, and each having to 399 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:49,240 Speaker 1: do their best to carry on and live life with 400 00:22:49,359 --> 00:23:01,720 Speaker 1: the burden of that knowledge. A couple times during the 401 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 1: day I asked them why they haven't spoken in so long, 402 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:08,520 Speaker 1: and they both insist, maybe out of embarrassment, that they 403 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:13,800 Speaker 1: do talk, just not often. But it isn't true. In fact, 404 00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:16,840 Speaker 1: my father learned of Sheldon's wife's death many years after 405 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:21,000 Speaker 1: the fact, and then only from me. Sheldon's daughter got 406 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:23,240 Speaker 1: in touch through Facebook and we made a phone date 407 00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:25,600 Speaker 1: where she caught me up on her life in Sheldon's 408 00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:28,200 Speaker 1: and a few nights later, while over at my parents 409 00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:30,919 Speaker 1: for dinner, I told my father of his sister in 410 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:33,960 Speaker 1: law's death. There was a terrible look that fell across 411 00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:38,280 Speaker 1: his face, one of sadness, but something else too, maybe 412 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:41,600 Speaker 1: shock over just how far he and Sheldon had drifted. 413 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 1: I found out about Judy, about her death. Who your wife? 414 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:52,720 Speaker 4: I didn't know about it either until you told me. Yeah, 415 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:57,000 Speaker 4: I didn't I tell you. No, you didn't know about it. No, 416 00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:04,240 Speaker 4: we didn't know. We didn't know she was sick about 417 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:12,199 Speaker 4: two years here, Judy, Well, when she got the diagnosis, 418 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 4: she was already stage four. What did I know about cancer? 419 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:23,280 Speaker 4: So the surgeon, so he said, So, I said, well, doctor, 420 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:26,040 Speaker 4: how did the surgery go? I always show you. I 421 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:31,360 Speaker 4: went very well. But the cancers in her liver, now 422 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:36,760 Speaker 4: I spread, I said, it's in he'll liver. I said what. 423 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:42,920 Speaker 4: And on top of that, I'm driving home. I'm all 424 00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:47,520 Speaker 4: fucked up and I'm spaced out, and my driver windows open, 425 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:50,639 Speaker 4: and some kids pull up alongside me and flip a 426 00:24:50,760 --> 00:25:04,840 Speaker 4: lit cigarette into my car. You know where I usually 427 00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:08,520 Speaker 4: might commented, buy myself on the ball. They got a 428 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:10,880 Speaker 4: waitress there always wait time. 429 00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:15,919 Speaker 1: It takes cook Canada for dinner. Sheldon takes us to 430 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 1: a local outback steakhouse. As people walk by, he provides 431 00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:22,639 Speaker 1: a running commentary of an elderly couple. 432 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:26,160 Speaker 4: Don't get like that couple. Whatever you do, it's time 433 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:28,000 Speaker 4: for the execution. 434 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:29,040 Speaker 1: Of an overweight couple. 435 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:34,800 Speaker 4: O fat, people are fat. 436 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:37,840 Speaker 1: It's as though he's sharpening his with readying it for 437 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:41,400 Speaker 1: the main event. Teasing my dad about Canada. 438 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:45,040 Speaker 4: I don't know how you could take Canada when your white. 439 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:46,600 Speaker 4: So you got nice neighbors. 440 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:47,280 Speaker 5: It's nice. 441 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:51,879 Speaker 4: It's okay. Uh. I wasn't gonna say, you're living in 442 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:53,600 Speaker 4: the same place for rom. 443 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:58,399 Speaker 5: Oh about thirty five, thirty eight years, something like that. 444 00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:00,960 Speaker 4: I'm happy here. Yeah. 445 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:00,560 Speaker 7: Yeah. 446 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:03,480 Speaker 1: For my father, I know this is a touchy subject, 447 00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:06,560 Speaker 1: believing as he always has, that Sheldon looks down on 448 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:09,399 Speaker 1: him for the dinkiness of his Canadian life and home. 449 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:14,119 Speaker 1: It's like a constant reminder of just who is second best. Later, 450 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:17,639 Speaker 1: my father will repeat Sheldon's words. You're still living in 451 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:22,080 Speaker 1: that same place, He'll say, for how many years? But 452 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:25,159 Speaker 1: just then I watch my father clench and unclench his 453 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:28,080 Speaker 1: jaw as he does when he is brooding. I know 454 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:30,520 Speaker 1: he's trying to take the high road, trying not to 455 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:32,840 Speaker 1: ruin the evening what two. 456 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:35,080 Speaker 4: Hundred dollars and thirty cent said. 457 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:39,400 Speaker 1: I pudd Sheldon invites us back to his place for cookies, 458 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:41,879 Speaker 1: but my father says he isn't up for it. 459 00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:49,399 Speaker 4: Thank you. 460 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:53,720 Speaker 1: As we walk through the restaurant parking lot to the car, 461 00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:57,680 Speaker 1: my father is silent. I find myself feeling protective of him. 462 00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:01,000 Speaker 1: After midnight, lying awake in our hotel, well, my father 463 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:04,000 Speaker 1: insisted we stay at one, I lay in bed thinking 464 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:07,000 Speaker 1: about that day in nineteen thirty nine when my grandmother 465 00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:10,480 Speaker 1: came back for Sheldon, not my father. For my father, 466 00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:13,520 Speaker 1: not only did it push him away from Sheldon, making 467 00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:16,560 Speaker 1: him feel jealous and resentful, but it also cast a 468 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:19,240 Speaker 1: shadow over the rest of his life, causing him to 469 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:22,880 Speaker 1: always feel passed over. He's mellowed with age, But as 470 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:24,920 Speaker 1: a kid, I saw it come out in all kinds 471 00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:28,320 Speaker 1: of ways, always sensitive to slights, ready for a fight 472 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:31,840 Speaker 1: at the smallest perceived defense. I wonder if there's a 473 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:34,640 Speaker 1: different way for my father to see things, If there 474 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:37,440 Speaker 1: is the only living person in this world who can 475 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:41,760 Speaker 1: help is Sheldon. When their mom left, Sheldon was nine, 476 00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 1: my father five. Sheldon would have understood a lot more 477 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:49,520 Speaker 1: than my father. Yesterday, Buzz and Sheldon talked like a 478 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:51,680 Speaker 1: couple of kids who used to play stickball in the 479 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:55,439 Speaker 1: old neighborhood. Today, if me and my big fat meddling 480 00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:58,200 Speaker 1: Yap have any sway, they'll have a chance to talk 481 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:02,960 Speaker 1: as men, as brothers, ye, because if not. Now when 482 00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:10,040 Speaker 1: day two, this. 483 00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:13,159 Speaker 4: Is a damn good cigar, Oh, Dominical Republic. 484 00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:15,440 Speaker 5: They make a damn good cigar in Dominical Republic. 485 00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:18,520 Speaker 1: Despite the difficulties of last night. The coin is flipped 486 00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:21,600 Speaker 1: back to the good side. Sheldon offers my father a cigar, 487 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:26,240 Speaker 1: and with a cigar, some cigar talk, some pretty foul 488 00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:26,920 Speaker 1: cigar talk. 489 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:31,119 Speaker 4: We're riding on Queen's Boulevard. Johnny's in the back seat 490 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,359 Speaker 4: with the whole He's got his naked ass up in 491 00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:38,480 Speaker 4: the air and he's well, the funny thing. We had 492 00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:42,160 Speaker 4: to stop for a light and there's a trunk driver 493 00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:47,120 Speaker 4: sitting in the cab bump high. Was funny. 494 00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:55,320 Speaker 1: If you guys missed each other, do you miss each other? 495 00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:03,640 Speaker 4: You know? He asked the weirdest question, What is he abroad? No? 496 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,200 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know. That's you know, eager to 497 00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:08,640 Speaker 1: prove to my uncle Sheldon that in spite of the 498 00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:11,920 Speaker 1: fact I'm wearing my wife's travel deodorant, I am indeed 499 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:15,360 Speaker 1: not abroad. I allow them to return to more pressing matters. 500 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:18,479 Speaker 1: They're Prostates, that said Jesus. 501 00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:22,400 Speaker 4: He says, your prest feels like the moon craters. And 502 00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:26,959 Speaker 4: there he said, I said, thank you, doctor complimenting. 503 00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:31,160 Speaker 1: So if I could steer this away from the Prostates. 504 00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:34,520 Speaker 1: So my father said that it's significant to him to 505 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:35,080 Speaker 1: have come. 506 00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:38,200 Speaker 4: What do you say, I agree with whatever he said? 507 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:39,520 Speaker 1: But what about you? 508 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:42,720 Speaker 4: I said, I agree with whatever he said? Do you 509 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:43,680 Speaker 4: want to written? 510 00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:47,360 Speaker 1: I know, i'my. It feels like I'm getting a taste 511 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:49,640 Speaker 1: of what growing up with Sheldon might have been like. 512 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:53,480 Speaker 1: So again I make my move. So I have some 513 00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:57,920 Speaker 1: questions just about because the stories that I know from 514 00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:01,479 Speaker 1: my father. But I'm curious your take is because you 515 00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:08,880 Speaker 1: were older, do you remember what was going on when 516 00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:13,480 Speaker 1: your mom when your mother left? Originally like what what? 517 00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:13,880 Speaker 4: Why? 518 00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:15,000 Speaker 1: And what was going on? 519 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:18,680 Speaker 4: Didn't you cover this ground before yesterday? 520 00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:22,400 Speaker 1: But from my father's perspective, the way I understood it 521 00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,240 Speaker 1: was always you were the favorite. Did you did you 522 00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:30,200 Speaker 1: feel that way? At this point, Sheldon's face suddenly softens. 523 00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:33,280 Speaker 4: I always felt that I got the short end of 524 00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:33,800 Speaker 4: the stick. 525 00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:37,840 Speaker 5: Yeah, but you have you were kind of a favorite 526 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:38,600 Speaker 5: with my mom. 527 00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:43,400 Speaker 4: Yeah. Maybe with mom, of course maybe temperamentally we were 528 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:48,840 Speaker 4: closer than I was with my father. My father never 529 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:52,720 Speaker 4: gave me spit. Did you ever get any money from 530 00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:57,880 Speaker 4: my father? I can't remember. You never got a line now, 531 00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:01,680 Speaker 4: I can't remember, yeh never. One time I sprained my 532 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:05,240 Speaker 4: ankle so biget that was? That was terrible. I laid 533 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,240 Speaker 4: in that bed my hand. He was, He says to me, 534 00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:14,080 Speaker 4: you lazy bum. Yeah, man, he went off on me 535 00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:17,160 Speaker 4: that time. He took Sheldon. 536 00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:19,680 Speaker 5: Once Sheldon happened to say the word fuck. 537 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:26,120 Speaker 4: He came in with that fucking strap, swinging with the. 538 00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:29,000 Speaker 5: Bucket, and you know, I can understand it, leaving a 539 00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:32,000 Speaker 5: feeling of resentment and dislike. 540 00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:37,760 Speaker 4: Hey, yeah, that was his way of communicating with us. 541 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:42,360 Speaker 4: Smack smack, and then what a way? Yeah it was 542 00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:46,760 Speaker 4: he easier on you. You think, uh, it wasn't that easy. 543 00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:48,680 Speaker 5: But he was tough on Sheldon was. 544 00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:51,320 Speaker 4: I know you were closer to him than I was. 545 00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:56,360 Speaker 4: A lot of things that went on. You didn't understand 546 00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:59,600 Speaker 4: really what was going on, So you had a different take. 547 00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:02,920 Speaker 1: Why are you surprised by But I was a kid. 548 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:03,920 Speaker 4: I didn't understand it. 549 00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:06,400 Speaker 1: But you didn't know that Sheldon was getting it so bad. 550 00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:12,320 Speaker 1: In Buzz's telling, their father was always a more or 551 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:17,040 Speaker 1: less benign, childish figure, incapable of expressing his feelings and 552 00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:20,640 Speaker 1: so given to temper tantrums. For Buzz, it was their 553 00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:23,240 Speaker 1: mother who was the manipulator, the woman who played the 554 00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:27,000 Speaker 1: brothers off each other. But hearing Sheldon's take. It sounds 555 00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:29,720 Speaker 1: like maybe their mother didn't come to take Sheldon because 556 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:32,680 Speaker 1: she loved him best, but simply because he needed more 557 00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:43,800 Speaker 1: protecting from their father. For the first time during our trip, 558 00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:46,840 Speaker 1: I can see my father considering Sheldon's point of view, 559 00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:50,360 Speaker 1: actually taking it in. I know it's intense for him 560 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:54,640 Speaker 1: because he can't even meet Sheldon's eyes. Instead, he looks 561 00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:57,080 Speaker 1: at me, addresses his comments to me. 562 00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:00,000 Speaker 5: You know, it said that my father's such a negation 563 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:04,440 Speaker 5: of impact on him, you know, just awful because he 564 00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:07,000 Speaker 5: had so much going for me. He was a wonderful son. 565 00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:10,360 Speaker 5: He worked hard, he was a good boy. 566 00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:14,040 Speaker 4: He went to school talking like I'm a failure in life. No, 567 00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:17,320 Speaker 4: you weren't a faith That's what I'm saying. You learn 568 00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:17,640 Speaker 4: a faith. 569 00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:20,000 Speaker 5: But all I'm saying is that emotionally he left an 570 00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:20,960 Speaker 5: impact on you. 571 00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:24,760 Speaker 4: It took a long time for me to get out 572 00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:30,760 Speaker 4: of that emotion. And now I'm at peace to myself. 573 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:34,480 Speaker 4: I can talk about him and laugh about it. 574 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:36,640 Speaker 9: Now. 575 00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:42,000 Speaker 4: I want peace quiet. I'm happy living by myself. 576 00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:44,160 Speaker 2: Are you lonely? 577 00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:44,880 Speaker 4: Sheldon? 578 00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:54,640 Speaker 1: The last time my father saw my grandfather in full health, 579 00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:58,440 Speaker 1: my dad was visiting from Canada, my grandfather asked my 580 00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:01,000 Speaker 1: father to drive him to the semin Harry to visit 581 00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:05,680 Speaker 1: his parents' grave, and once there, my grandfather wept inconsolably. 582 00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:08,920 Speaker 1: Later that day he would succumb to a stroke, and 583 00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:12,320 Speaker 1: shortly after we moved to a nursing home, with Sheldon 584 00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:15,640 Speaker 1: being more local. The burden of my grandfather's care fell 585 00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:18,400 Speaker 1: mainly to Sheldon. It seems like a lot of the 586 00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:20,360 Speaker 1: family's burdens fell to Sheldon. 587 00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:23,880 Speaker 5: They put a lot of a lot of the responsibility 588 00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:28,359 Speaker 5: on him. That my dad should have been taking that responsibility, and. 589 00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:30,920 Speaker 4: He shouldered that. Well, who was going to take car 590 00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:34,120 Speaker 4: of you? Who is going to take you to school? Meet? Yea, 591 00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:36,400 Speaker 4: I remember one time I was later or something. You 592 00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:43,719 Speaker 4: stood outside that right, I said, mousy, I'm here, I'm here. 593 00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:47,480 Speaker 4: He was good to meet a lot of times me. 594 00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:49,799 Speaker 4: You know, you were. 595 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:52,040 Speaker 5: My older brother used to knock the shit out of 596 00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:54,799 Speaker 5: me sometimes, But you know that's the way it is 597 00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:55,920 Speaker 5: with brothers. 598 00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:00,480 Speaker 4: Well, yeah, I was good in some way some way 599 00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:02,360 Speaker 4: that I was mean? Who was not? 600 00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:03,000 Speaker 5: Who is not? 601 00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:04,400 Speaker 4: Who is not? 602 00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:08,640 Speaker 1: So if you feel like you were compelled to see 603 00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:11,480 Speaker 1: each other now because you knew that, you know, it's 604 00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:13,680 Speaker 1: an hour and never kind of thing. Then it means 605 00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:16,480 Speaker 1: that it was important to you both right to see 606 00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:16,919 Speaker 1: each other. 607 00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:26,120 Speaker 5: You want to take that sure yes, easy answer, Yes, yes, 608 00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:28,839 Speaker 5: because we're not getting any younger. I mean, what's down 609 00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:34,160 Speaker 5: the road. I'm eighty he's eighty five. I mean because 610 00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:36,040 Speaker 5: there was a lot of water under the bridge and 611 00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:37,240 Speaker 5: we want to close that bridge. 612 00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:37,439 Speaker 2: Now. 613 00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:40,600 Speaker 5: I want to feel easy. Now, I want to say, 614 00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:42,120 Speaker 5: now he's going to be eighty six. I want to 615 00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:44,640 Speaker 5: call him on his birthday and say happy birthday to him. Now, 616 00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:47,040 Speaker 5: I'm not going to stand any fucking ceremonies anymore. 617 00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:51,320 Speaker 1: As my father speaks, as per his brother's example, dropping 618 00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:54,280 Speaker 1: f bombs like he's in a Guy Ritchie film, Sheldon 619 00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:57,799 Speaker 1: keeps his arms crossed and his eyes shut tight. He's 620 00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:00,920 Speaker 1: quiet for several seconds, and then he reaches out to 621 00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:01,680 Speaker 1: pet his cat. 622 00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:04,240 Speaker 4: Should I leave you at a cat in my will? 623 00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:05,680 Speaker 4: If anything happened. 624 00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:08,399 Speaker 5: If anything out, I'll take care of the cat. I'll 625 00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:12,160 Speaker 5: take care of the cat. I'm happy I can't to 626 00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:12,520 Speaker 5: see you. 627 00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:15,800 Speaker 4: That I am. I'm happy it can't here. That's good, 628 00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:21,399 Speaker 4: very good. Wherever I want to. 629 00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:22,200 Speaker 9: Buy a house. 630 00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:28,440 Speaker 1: When it's time to leave, Sheldon walks us outside, but 631 00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:31,120 Speaker 1: before we get into the rental, he points across the 632 00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:34,040 Speaker 1: lawn to his neighbor's house. He tells my father that 633 00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:36,840 Speaker 1: it's for sale, and then he tells him the asking price, 634 00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:39,560 Speaker 1: and my father says that doesn't sound bad at all. 635 00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:43,480 Speaker 1: And Sheldon says that, what with Canada being so bloody cold, 636 00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:46,960 Speaker 1: my father should consider moving to Florida, and my father 637 00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:51,200 Speaker 1: says maybe he will. They don't get too emotional, they 638 00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:54,680 Speaker 1: don't even hug it by, They just shake hands. And 639 00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:58,080 Speaker 1: with that, it feels like Buzz has forgiven Sheldon, and 640 00:36:58,120 --> 00:36:59,439 Speaker 1: Sheldon has forgiven Buzz. 641 00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:05,720 Speaker 4: All right, you take care of under the bridge. Safe 642 00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:10,520 Speaker 4: trip both, thank you, Yeah, thank you. We'll speak. M'll speak. 643 00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:20,879 Speaker 11: Turn right on Northwest drawn. 644 00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:24,239 Speaker 4: Oh my god, it feels so different now, you know. 645 00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:27,320 Speaker 5: This has taken a lot off my shoulders idea. 646 00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:29,160 Speaker 2: You know. 647 00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:34,040 Speaker 1: As we ride to the airport, my father says that 648 00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:36,560 Speaker 1: the thought of Sheldon all alone in that house with 649 00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:40,000 Speaker 1: just a cat makes him sad. Do you really think 650 00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:43,200 Speaker 1: he isn't lonely, my father asks. I assure him that 651 00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:46,320 Speaker 1: Sheldon seems okay with being alone, but my father doesn't 652 00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:49,960 Speaker 1: seem so sure. After all these years, the burden of 653 00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:52,680 Speaker 1: having lost his brother has been replaced by a new burden, 654 00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:54,959 Speaker 1: one that might be heavier to bear. 655 00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:41,160 Speaker 3: Now that the fern ures returned into its goodwill home, 656 00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:48,759 Speaker 3: now that the last month's rent is skating with. 657 00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:53,560 Speaker 1: The damage to pos take this moment to dissolve. 658 00:38:55,560 --> 00:39:01,640 Speaker 4: If we mentage, if we tried felt around for fuck 659 00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:05,920 Speaker 4: to from the bank said accident. 660 00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:14,759 Speaker 1: Lee Heavyweight is hosted and produced by me Jonathan Goldstein. 661 00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:17,600 Speaker 1: This episode was also produced by Wendy Dore, Chris Neary, 662 00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:21,240 Speaker 1: and Khalila Holt, editing by Alex Bloomberg and Peter Clowney. 663 00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:24,640 Speaker 1: Special thanks to Caitlin Kenny, Starley Kine and Rachel Ward. 664 00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:27,360 Speaker 1: The show was mixed by Hailey Shaw. Music in this 665 00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:30,640 Speaker 1: episode by Christine Fellows, with additional music and ad music 666 00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:33,600 Speaker 1: by Hailey Shaw. Our theme song is by The Weaker Bands, 667 00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:37,040 Speaker 1: courtesy of Epitaph Records. A version of the story appeared 668 00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:39,040 Speaker 1: on This American Life, and we had a lot of 669 00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:42,080 Speaker 1: help from the folks there, Ira Glass, Julie Snyder, Jonathan 670 00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:45,840 Speaker 1: men Heavar, Sean Cole and Robin Semeon a very special 671 00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:49,360 Speaker 1: thanks to Emily Condon. Follow us on Twitter at heavyweight. 672 00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:51,480 Speaker 1: We'll have a new episode next week. 673 00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:06,319 Speaker 4: We used to call him Mitchy, little bitchy, Remember the 674 00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:09,200 Speaker 4: older brother, the oldest one. He was kind of hey, 675 00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:12,120 Speaker 4: well lucky we turned out as good as we did.