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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.

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Speaker 2: I'm Hannah Elliott and.

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Speaker 3: I'm Matt Miller, and this is Hot Pursuit. Coming up.

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Speaker 4: On today's podcast, we hear about the demise and hopefully

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Speaker 4: the rebirth of Stilantis as a car maker. We talk

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Speaker 4: about some car shows that we've gone to are going to.

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Speaker 4: And Hannah, you have had a couple of trips, one

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Speaker 4: long and one I think fairly important.

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Speaker 3: Tell me about your drive to Denver.

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Speaker 2: So Magnus and I drove to Denver from LA in

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Speaker 2: a day's We made it in about fourteen and a

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Speaker 2: half hours. It's like eleven hundred miles and yeah, I

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Speaker 2: have to say it was felt pretty good. And we

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Speaker 2: also drove back two days later, which was actually more difficult.

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Speaker 4: Feat Well, most importantly, you went there in a nine

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Speaker 4: to nine to one in your nine nine to one turbo.

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Speaker 2: Right, yes, nine one one.

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Speaker 3: Did you have willow in the back?

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Speaker 2: And oh, that is the most important thing. We brought willow. Now,

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Speaker 2: we were going to Denver because it was my mom's

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Speaker 2: seventieth birthday and we had a little family reunion. Happy

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Speaker 2: birthday Mom, Happy birthday Mom. Of course we have to

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Speaker 2: bring Willow with us. She's our little fur baby, and

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Speaker 2: so we thought driving would be a great idea. And

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Speaker 2: also we are rather we don't have a lot of

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Speaker 2: like patients sometimes, so we kind of just were like,

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Speaker 2: let's just do it in a day. I don't want

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Speaker 2: to stay somewhere in Grand Junction overnight in some you know,

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Speaker 2: thirty dollars hotel. So it kind of became, let's just

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Speaker 2: drive it in a day. You can do it. It's

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Speaker 2: basically the fifteen to the seventy fifteen sort of changes

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Speaker 2: into the seventy after Las Vegas. But I have to

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Speaker 2: say it's such a cool drive, especially when you're heading east.

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Speaker 2: The clocks change. At one point we went through five

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Speaker 2: different states, went through a time time zone change, which

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Speaker 2: bought us an hour basically at night driving over the mountains.

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Speaker 2: It was great. On the way back, we actually hit

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Speaker 2: snow in the Rockies sort of near Veil, so we

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Speaker 2: had all weather, saw rain, saw rainbows, hit snow in

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Speaker 2: the Rockies on the way back, and it was great.

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Speaker 4: I imagine it's a I mean, I think it's a

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Speaker 4: perfect trip car. I have done a lot of very

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Speaker 4: long trips in my nine nine to one career, s,

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Speaker 4: but I didn't have a German shepherd in the back,

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Speaker 4: and like that's important to mention that Willow is a

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Speaker 4: German shepherd's.

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Speaker 2: She tucks herself right in. It's kind of like her

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Speaker 2: little cubby and like a lot of dogs, she actually

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Speaker 2: likes feeling like she's in a little cave. She's create trained,

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Speaker 2: she feels safe and comfortable, so she just tucks herself in.

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Speaker 2: We actually put a little lambskin rug over the back

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Speaker 2: seat so she would have, you know, a smell of home.

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Speaker 2: And we stopped four times now on the way out there.

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Speaker 2: We actually stopped at one point to add coolant because

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Speaker 2: we got a coolant warning, an engine warning about overheating.

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Speaker 2: And that is a little lesson where we had taken

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Speaker 2: the car to get prepped before this trip to have

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Speaker 2: an oil change, and just assumed that the folks who

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Speaker 2: changed the oil would have also topped off the other

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Speaker 2: fluids in the car. Well they didn't, so we actually

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Speaker 2: made an unexpected stop to add some cool into the car.

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Speaker 2: But that was fine. And yeah, Willow is so calm.

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Speaker 2: She's the best road dog. She loves it, thank goodness.

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Speaker 2: She likes riding in cars. Matt, you went to the

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Speaker 2: Turtle Invitational last week.

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Speaker 3: Right, I did, I did so.

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Speaker 4: The Turtle Invitational is a car show that my buddy

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Speaker 4: Philip Richter puts on in Bedford and it's become bigger

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Speaker 4: and bigger every year. This year he teamed up with

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Speaker 4: sixteen hundred vloche which is the huge, I think, the

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Speaker 4: biggest bring a trailer seller. And it happens to also

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Speaker 4: be up there in New York City or sorry in

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Speaker 4: New York State. And he had some really not only

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Speaker 4: some amazing cars and there were a ton of them,

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Speaker 4: but some really cool people. Wayne Karni was there, who

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Speaker 4: does the Barnfind Show. He had Jonathan Whitmer there, his

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Speaker 4: CEO of the REVS Institute, Ken Gross was there, he's

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Speaker 4: not a motive historian. Alex von Moser was there. He

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Speaker 4: manages vc V s OC which is a very special

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Speaker 4: old cars which is a europe like that car dealer.

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Speaker 4: And so a lot of like industry greats, especially in

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Speaker 4: terms of collecting.

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Speaker 3: Right, because these guys are all big collectors.

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Speaker 2: What was the theme of the show. Was there a

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Speaker 2: certain bent to.

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Speaker 4: It there in terms of like judging, there were a

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Speaker 4: bunch of different categories because Phil loves Bruno Saco and

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Speaker 4: these that era of Mercedes Benzes. There were there were

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Speaker 4: ton of those. There were a bunch of Ferrari Dinos,

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Speaker 4: more than I've ever seen gathered in one place. There

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Speaker 4: were a bunch of Shelby cars. There were there was

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Speaker 4: a big collection of V twelve motor cars. But it

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Speaker 4: wasn't like, oh, and there were a bunch of fire

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Speaker 4: trucks if you're into that, but like old ones, old

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Speaker 4: vintage fire trucks. But it wasn't like everything had to

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Speaker 4: be perfect, you know, you didn't need like the exact

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Speaker 4: right end cap on your steering stabilizer, like like you

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Speaker 4: might at Pebble Beach. So it was cars I think

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Speaker 4: that have been driven and cars that people are still driving,

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Speaker 4: and cars that have a story more than have been

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Speaker 4: perfectly restored.

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Speaker 2: And was this free to anyone who wanted to come, No, you.

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Speaker 4: Had to buy tickets. And there there were a ton

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Speaker 4: of people. It's on Phillip's horse farm. So Philip is

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Speaker 4: also like an Olympic level show jumper and he has

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Speaker 4: a big horse farm in Bedford. His family's been in

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Speaker 4: the business for I should say he's a.

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Speaker 3: Wealth manager as well. At Hollowbrook.

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Speaker 4: We've had Philip Rickterer on the show before, but it

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Speaker 4: was just one of those Friday night. There was a

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Speaker 4: panel discussion about collecting cars, and I just am so

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Speaker 4: happy and I feel like I'm in my element when

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Speaker 4: I'm surrounded by a bunch of people that just want

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Speaker 4: to talk about cars. And I get that feeling sometimes

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Speaker 4: in Detroit, and it was like that. I didn't want

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Speaker 4: to leave on Friday night after this dinner, delicious dinner

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Speaker 4: and panel discussion. He also collects and restores old BMW motorcycles,

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Speaker 4: so there were a bunch of guys with like cool

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Speaker 4: old beamers there at Old Airhouse and it was.

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Speaker 3: A great time.

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Speaker 4: I really they only happened every other year, So now

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Speaker 4: I'm looking forward to two years from now, but I

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Speaker 4: can't wait to go back to this to this car

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Speaker 4: show again.

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Speaker 2: That's great. Did you bring the family? Is this a

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Speaker 2: family thing?

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Speaker 4: I brought my daughters and my neighbor Eric brought his

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Speaker 4: kids as well, and we drove up there in a

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Speaker 4: brand new Rolls Royce Ghost, which was pretty amazing.

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Speaker 2: You are moving up in the world, my friends.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Jerry Spawn was in here last week, the head

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Speaker 4: of Comms for Rolls Royce Motor Cars North America, and

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Speaker 4: he was kind enough to lend me this car for

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Speaker 4: the car show. Everybody there, of course wanted to see it.

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Speaker 4: It's you know, it's not a vintage car, obviously, it's

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Speaker 4: brand new, but it still has the big V twelve.

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Speaker 4: And it was mustique blues, this gorgeous shade of blue

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Speaker 4: that almost looks green and some sunlight. And it had

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Speaker 4: a fabric interior, not a leather interior, with kind of

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Speaker 4: like a.

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Speaker 3: Chain link pattern and some s's on it. I don't

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Speaker 3: know why.

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Speaker 2: How was the fabric with kids?

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Speaker 3: I thought it was fantastic.

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Speaker 4: I didn't let them spill anything on it, but I

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Speaker 4: did put car seats in the back, and I felt

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Speaker 4: much less guilty about how I would have felt where leather.

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Speaker 2: Uh oh, you're saying the fabric was actually more resisted.

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Speaker 3: I think.

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Speaker 4: I mean it was like a bamboo based fabric. It

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Speaker 4: was like a ten thousand dollars option. The whole thing

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Speaker 4: was a four hundred and ninety five thousand dollars ghost.

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Speaker 4: So it's gotta be one of the most expensive cars

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Speaker 4: I've ever driven, you know, other than a Bugatti.

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Speaker 3: And it was pretty great.

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Speaker 4: I will say the new Rolls Royce Ghost is tuned

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Speaker 4: to be even waftier than the ones I remember from.

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Speaker 3: You know, twenty eleven twenty twelve.

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Speaker 4: Those were like sportier and more I mean not not sporty,

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Speaker 4: but more of a driver's car.

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Speaker 3: And this is more of a floater.

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Speaker 4: And also it has like giant I don't know what

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Speaker 4: the diameter was, but like twenty four's, you know, in

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Speaker 4: terms of the wheels, so tiny sidewall, which then counteracts

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Speaker 4: like if I have a super wafty, floaty car, I

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Speaker 4: don't want to feel it when I hit a pothole, right,

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Speaker 4: And if you have no sidewall on giant rims, every

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Speaker 4: time you hit a pothole, it's terrifying feel it. So

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Speaker 4: I was thinking like, if I'd got weird spec this car,

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Speaker 4: I would put like twenty inches twenty inch wheels on

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Speaker 4: it and big sidewall because you want to soak up

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Speaker 4: the horrible roads of America, or.

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Speaker 2: Just something in the middle like twenty one or twenty two.

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Speaker 2: I mean twenty four seems insane.

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Speaker 3: Well I don't know what they were, but there it might.

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Speaker 2: Have been twenty twenty two or twenty three.

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Speaker 4: You you picked up your rolls. Royce was a little

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Speaker 4: bit older, and you've had some issues.

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Speaker 2: I do. I have had some issues, but I've got

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Speaker 2: one running. I've got the Silver Spur running, which is

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Speaker 2: I'm happy to report. It was a simple radiator thing.

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Speaker 2: This is not the car that crapped out on me

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Speaker 2: last week. This is a different car.

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Speaker 3: Oh, I see that you have various cars in and

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Speaker 3: out of shop.

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Speaker 2: Yes, it was leaking a mysterious fluid. So that has

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Speaker 2: been actually replaced and repaired. And I will admit, in

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Speaker 2: the interest of time, we took it to some random

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Speaker 2: guy in downtown.

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Speaker 3: Indy, an indie mechanic.

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Speaker 2: Yes, so we'll call him in Indy. This is literally

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Speaker 2: next to the tow yard where a long time ago

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Speaker 2: I had a Fiat Toad and was shaken down for

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Speaker 2: about five hundred bucks in cash. This is a place

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Speaker 2: I would not feel comfortable being alone. Anyway, we had

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Speaker 2: took the rules there, and three hundred and fifty dollars later,

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Speaker 2: it's fine. So I drove it to day to work fantas.

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Speaker 2: So that's that's a happy ending to that story.

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Speaker 4: What car show do you have coming up? And what

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Speaker 4: will you take?

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Speaker 2: Okay, so on Saturday, there's this very cool Italian car

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Speaker 2: show called Mashini Shima, and this is the third year

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Speaker 2: that it has happened. It is put on by my

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Speaker 2: good friend Dorian, who is the owner of DV Mechanics.

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Speaker 2: He is a very famous and accomplished Alpha Romeo mechanic

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Speaker 2: who manages basically all of Southern California's and some of

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Speaker 2: Northern California's Alpha Romeo Vintage Alfa Romeo lineup. He preps

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Speaker 2: cars for racing. I saw him in Monterey prepping cars

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Speaker 2: for some great races up there at Laguna. But anyway, Dorian,

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Speaker 2: Dorian and some of his friends are putting on this

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Speaker 2: Mashinishima car show which is all about Italian cars. They're

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Speaker 2: also Italian motorcycles. They will kind the best kind. They

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Speaker 2: will be serving Italian espressos and spritss and there will

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Speaker 2: be cocktails by one of my favorite bars, Bar Henry,

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Speaker 2: which is in Silver Lake, so or kind of Echo Park,

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Speaker 2: I guess, but it'll be fun. It's on Saturday, it's

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Speaker 2: downtown at the Rolling Greens. Tickets are a little bit expensive.

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Speaker 2: They're fifty three dollars, which is rather expensive for a

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Speaker 2: local car show, but I have. I have been before

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Speaker 2: and it is a really fun day. And I'm also

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Speaker 2: happy to say dogs are allowed, which is a very

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Speaker 2: big thing for me too. Children not allowed.

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Speaker 5: What car?

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Speaker 3: No, just kidding, what what car were you? Are you

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Speaker 3: gonna show any cars?

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Speaker 5: No?

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Speaker 2: No, no, you know, this show is actually about eight

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Speaker 2: hundred meters from the garage where we keep our cars,

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Speaker 2: so we will be walking. Although I do admit it

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Speaker 2: was a matter of some discussion last night where I

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Speaker 2: was saying we should drive something fun just so we

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Speaker 2: can show it and other people can see it, and

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Speaker 2: my significant other thought, why would we drive and fight

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Speaker 2: for parking when we can literally walk there?

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Speaker 3: Fairpoint, fair point.

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Speaker 2: So I might have won, I might have lost out

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Speaker 2: on that.

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Speaker 4: Actually, So this is a great segue to our to

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Speaker 4: our our interview today because Alfa Romeo is such an

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Speaker 4: important brand to car lovers, and to be honest, a

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Speaker 4: lot of the guys at this that I was talking

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Speaker 4: to at the Turtle were Maserati lovers as well, and

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Speaker 4: our collectors. You know, I think Maserati has won the

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Speaker 4: Pebble Beach concord alegance more often than Ferrari. In fact,

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Speaker 4: I know that because I think Ferrari's all. We won

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Speaker 4: the Concord Elegance one time.

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Speaker 2: But Mercedes has the most wins.

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Speaker 4: I do know that Mercedes right is up there. I

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Speaker 4: feel like there's another brand that is tied with Mercedes.

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Speaker 4: In any case, Malaradi and Alfa Romeo are not the

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Speaker 4: biggest problems for Stilantis, and we're going to get to

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Speaker 4: the disaster that happened there and our hopes.

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Speaker 3: For the future. Next this is b.

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Speaker 4: We are very honored to have one of our best reporters,

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Speaker 4: Gabriella Coppola, with us out of Detroit. She covers obviously

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Speaker 4: the automotive industry for Bloomberg News, and she's writing about

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Speaker 4: one of my favorite subjects today, and that is mopar

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Speaker 4: or no car.

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Speaker 1: I meaning you have to either have mopar or you

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Speaker 1: don't want it at all. Is that what you're saying.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a saying that I actually picked up from Magnus.

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Speaker 3: I don't I don't know.

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Speaker 2: It's an old famous heart. Yeah, oh, I like that,

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Speaker 2: that's what they say.

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Speaker 4: But I find myself tending to love of the Big Three,

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Speaker 4: like I tend towards Dodge.

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Speaker 3: I guess it's because of their.

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Speaker 4: Sort of brute strength, you know, the big naturally aspirated

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Speaker 4: motors and the kind of out there muscle car design.

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Speaker 3: I just I'm into it.

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Speaker 5: Everything that got killed. Yeah, let's come back.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I might be coming back. I mean, Gabby, your

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Speaker 2: story is called Houstilantis became Global Auto's cautionary tale, and

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Speaker 2: it starts with this vignette of a commercial, you know,

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Speaker 2: with a voice over by Harrison Ford talking about the

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Speaker 2: freedom of choosing a gas guzzler versus an ev kind

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Speaker 2: of what Matt is alluding to. Can you just talk

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Speaker 2: us through how this how you started formulating this story idea,

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Speaker 2: what you were seeing, and take us to your entry

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Speaker 2: point that commercial, how you yeah data and where you

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Speaker 2: went from there.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know, this story, as many BUSINESSWEK stories are,

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Speaker 1: had a long gestation period. So I would say the

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Speaker 1: seed of it started last fall, like the fall of

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty four, when it just became really apparent how

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Speaker 1: much Troublestlantis was in. They had, you know, had this

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Speaker 1: shocking profit shortfall and Jeep, which was always the golden goose,

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Speaker 1: you know, the thing that every CEO would always kind

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Speaker 1: of tend and care for and wanted to you know,

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Speaker 1: increase its riches. Was just had lost a ton of

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Speaker 1: market share and things were looking so bad that I

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Speaker 1: said to my editors, like, we should do a story

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Speaker 1: on how this guy, Carlos Tavaris destroyed the Jeep brand,

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Speaker 1: like literally one of the most valuable.

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Speaker 5: Car brands in the world. Yes, an icon.

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Speaker 1: And then before I could finish even write like a page,

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Speaker 1: they fired the CEO. So that was like, you know,

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Speaker 1: early December. Yes, so then we're like, okay, cool, cool, Well,

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Speaker 1: we'll just keep writing this story and then we'll you know,

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Speaker 1: we'll peg it to whoever the new CEO is.

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Speaker 2: And really that firing validated your idea you were, It's

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Speaker 2: almost like you saw it coming.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, although I feel like I don't feel like I

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Speaker 1: was only I feel like any good auto reporter who's

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Speaker 1: paying attention to their beat could see that wasn't that was,

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Speaker 1: you know, But actually no, I think there was still

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Speaker 1: a surprise because the belief was that Tavarus would serve

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Speaker 1: out the end of his term, which would be it

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Speaker 1: would have been the end of next year, so it

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Speaker 1: was kind of like, let's just get him to kind

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Speaker 1: of change course or like kind of course correct or

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Speaker 1: modify things. Have been, then he can stay, but I

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Speaker 1: don't like, I don't want to get ahead of myself.

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Speaker 1: So anyway, we were waiting for the successor to Carlos Tavarus,

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Speaker 1: who just for the audience who doesn't know, Carlos Tavarus

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Speaker 1: is from Portugal, but he was kind of educated and

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Speaker 1: built his career in France working for Nissan. He was

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Speaker 1: a protegee of Carlos going and up until he became

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Speaker 1: the CEO of Stalantis. He was seen as kind of

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Speaker 1: a turnaround wiz. He turned Pougeot around the Opal brand

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Speaker 1: in Europe, so he had a lot of credibility coming

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Speaker 1: into this job. So once he left, we were like, okay,

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Speaker 1: we'll pegget to the new CEO and surely that'll happen

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Speaker 1: in January or February. And then it was March, and

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Speaker 1: then it was April and there was still no successor.

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Speaker 1: And John Elkan who is the scion of the Annielli family,

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Speaker 1: which was the kind of billionaire dynasty there like the

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Speaker 1: Kennedys of Italy.

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Speaker 5: His great great grandfather.

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Speaker 1: Founded Fiat in eighteen ninety nine and Turin, he was

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Speaker 1: a contemporary of Henry Ford, went to visit Henry Ford,

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Speaker 1: you know, took inspiration from Henry Ford. So Elcan was

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Speaker 1: kind of left holding the bag and it just as

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Speaker 1: the time wore on, it just seemed like, gosh, does

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Speaker 1: nobody want this job? And so that kind of became

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Speaker 1: the story in addition to the Jeeps story. It was

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Speaker 1: like because the way I think about it is, if

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Speaker 1: you look at the global auto industry right now, it's

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Speaker 1: kind of like hunger games. You know, we're going through already,

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Speaker 1: electrification was kind of challenging the business model, you know,

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Speaker 1: having to totally switch technologies. Nobody can quite predict the

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Speaker 1: pace of adoption and varies by region.

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Speaker 5: That's a really tough problem.

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Speaker 1: Then you take you know, automated driving, self driving, the

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Speaker 1: investment that that requires. Then you take all this sort

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Speaker 1: of new geopolitical tension, tariffs going up, and then you

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Speaker 1: look at the rise of the Chinese auto industry and

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Speaker 1: now they've become a fully formed, you know, competitive juggernaut

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Speaker 1: in the world that's trying to you know, export cars

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Speaker 1: around the world. Those are a lot of pressures for

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Speaker 1: any automaker, and.

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Speaker 4: You have the competing national interest right because oh yeah,

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Speaker 4: el Con when he was I guess interim CEO had

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Speaker 4: to do this tour where he like promised the French

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Speaker 4: he wasn't in the cut production there, and obviously he's

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Speaker 4: not allowed to cut production in Italy, and then he

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Speaker 4: has to kiss up to Trump and say he's not

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Speaker 4: going to cut here, so they're left with a ton

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Speaker 4: of overcapacity.

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Speaker 5: Exactly.

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Speaker 1: That's exactly right, Matt, And like I feel like I

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Speaker 1: was just That's what really got me was like what

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Speaker 1: I became so intrigued with is like, oh my gosh,

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Speaker 1: running this company is not just running a car company.

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Speaker 1: It's like, like we say in the stories, like the

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Speaker 1: United Nations and Tavaris had like burned so many bridges

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Speaker 1: around the world that el Can just had to do

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Speaker 1: this massive diplomatic push clean up effort and try to

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Speaker 1: run the company when it was in a really rough

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Speaker 1: spot and try to find someone to take this thankless

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Speaker 1: job that nobody seemed to want. The company will say

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Speaker 1: they have a number of good candidates, and so that's

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Speaker 1: what they say about it. I'm sure at the right

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Speaker 1: price you could have a lot of candidates. But the

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Speaker 1: question is, like do you want to pay how much

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Speaker 1: you have to pay to get someone to do this?

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Speaker 5: Job.

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Speaker 1: So that was kind of how it evolved into what

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Speaker 1: it became, which was partially a story about the you know,

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Speaker 1: the fall of the G brand, and then also about

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Speaker 1: this company with all these self inflicted wounds, trying to

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Speaker 1: heal itself, and then while it's trying to get its

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Speaker 1: house in order, then Trump comes in and starts shaking

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Speaker 1: up the you know, economy with teriffs and all those

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Speaker 1: kind of things.

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Speaker 4: By the way, it wasn't just I want to point out,

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Speaker 4: it wasn't just the Jeep brand that was ruined. For example,

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Speaker 4: Chrysler at one point and maybe still only has one product, right,

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Speaker 4: just the minivan and that's all they have. And also Dodge,

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Speaker 4: which had made such incredible headway with the with the

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Speaker 4: Challenger and the Charger, like they're such popular vehicles, out

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Speaker 4: selling Mustang and Camaro. For some reason unbeknownst to anyone,

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Speaker 4: Tim Kiniskus was like, this is the end. We're not

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Speaker 4: going to make the six point four liter Hemi anymore

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Speaker 4: in twenty twenty three.

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Speaker 3: Like why would you act that motor?

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Speaker 4: It's like, I if the Jeep is an iconic car brand,

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Speaker 4: this is the most iconic motor in all of automotive

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Speaker 4: what other motor does anybody know by name?

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Speaker 3: Maybe the coyote?

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Speaker 4: Right, so the head right, he was killed and yeah,

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Speaker 4: with no real explanation. And then they wanted to replace

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Speaker 4: that with an EV, which is the exact wrong audience.

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Speaker 4: So they killed Dodge, they killed Chrysler, they were suffocating

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Speaker 4: Jeep and then ram Ram has had a similar problem.

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Speaker 1: Right, well, and that's just the US brands. And I

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Speaker 1: just want to say on the hemy, I don't think

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Speaker 1: it's a total mystery. I think that a lot of

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Speaker 1: this was driven by regulation and needing to comply with

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Speaker 1: tighter fuel economy rules. And you know when carmakers when

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Speaker 1: they roll out their models, they have to do this

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Speaker 1: very complex calculation of okay, it's you know, it's the

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Speaker 1: whole fleet, the corporate average fuel economy for your entire fleet.

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Speaker 1: It's not just that one model. So if you want

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Speaker 1: to sell hemmis, you got to sell some evs over here.

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Speaker 5: You know.

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Speaker 1: That's how it was pre Trump. But I think that

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Speaker 1: was also a decision by Tavarus. You know that he

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Speaker 1: you know, Chrysler, I'm going to call them Chrysler, yeah,

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Speaker 1: source Atlantis. You know, they have always been the laggard

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Speaker 1: in Detroit in terms of fuel economy, and they've paid

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Speaker 1: billions of dollars and fines or you know, bought credits

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Speaker 1: from Tesla, and you know, maybe some of the japan

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Speaker 1: other you know, car companies that were in compliance. So

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Speaker 1: I think Tavarus, who is like very focused on cutting

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Speaker 1: costs and the optimizing profit, was like, why are we

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Speaker 1: paying our competitors, Like why are we just spending all

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Speaker 1: this money subsidizing Tesla? Like We're not doing that anymore.

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Speaker 1: Let's make our own ebs, which on paper, it sounds

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Speaker 1: like a very rational and you know decision, But what

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Speaker 1: I don't think he appreciated was like, uh, that's what

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Speaker 1: consumers want in America, Like that's the American market. And

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Speaker 1: the thing that was so telling was that you didn't

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Speaker 1: see GM and Ford killing their performance engines during the

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Speaker 1: same period, even as they were investing electric vehicles and

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Speaker 1: you know, going all in, perhaps too much. So that

437
00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:56,440
Speaker 1: just goes to show you that some of this was, yes,

438
00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:59,639
Speaker 1: regulatory driven, but some of it was also you know,

439
00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:01,440
Speaker 1: just bad choices, bad decisions.

440
00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:06,040
Speaker 2: And it does seem like John Elkin personally believed that

441
00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:08,320
Speaker 2: he wants to be I think he used the phrase,

442
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:12,760
Speaker 2: or an analyst use the phrase pistons and pixels that

443
00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:15,760
Speaker 2: John Elkin does have this vision that he wants to

444
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:20,920
Speaker 2: like move everything very far into the future. And tell

445
00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:23,199
Speaker 2: me if that's a wrong read of it, but it

446
00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:26,800
Speaker 2: does seem like he too, on a personal level, wanted

447
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:30,880
Speaker 2: to just push everything really far forward technologically.

448
00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:34,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think.

449
00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:36,520
Speaker 1: I mean, to be clear, I've never met John Alcannon.

450
00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:40,120
Speaker 1: He declined to be interviewed for this article. Really, yes,

451
00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:43,520
Speaker 1: shockingly nobody wanted to talk to me. But they're in

452
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:45,560
Speaker 1: an awkward They're in a rough stage right now. You know,

453
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:47,440
Speaker 1: you want to talk when you have a good story

454
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:49,080
Speaker 1: to tell, and they're still trying to work through all

455
00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:53,160
Speaker 1: these problems. But I do think it's true. And this

456
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:55,480
Speaker 1: is based on reporting, you know, talking to people who

457
00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:59,160
Speaker 1: know him well, who've worked with him. I mean, people

458
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:00,640
Speaker 1: will tell you he's a car guy.

459
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:01,200
Speaker 5: It's true.

460
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:04,199
Speaker 1: He's not somebody who loves car I mean, but I

461
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:06,479
Speaker 1: mean I think what really moves him and excites him

462
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:09,400
Speaker 1: is technology and innovation. And if you look at Ferrari,

463
00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:11,720
Speaker 1: you know which was spun out, you know that's also

464
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:15,440
Speaker 1: you know his ex or his the kind of investment

465
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:18,760
Speaker 1: fund that controls all of the Annielli family sort of

466
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:23,720
Speaker 1: you know investments. You know, he's very passionate about that

467
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,479
Speaker 1: because when you look at Ferrari, that brand is strong.

468
00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:28,960
Speaker 1: I mean obviously it's very sexy. Look, you know, supercar,

469
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:31,960
Speaker 1: luxury brand. But there's a lot of innovation happening there,

470
00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:33,600
Speaker 1: and I think that's what excites him, whether it's in

471
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:39,320
Speaker 1: a car or you know, mobility or medical diagnostics or whatever.

472
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:42,320
Speaker 1: I do think he is excited by that. So I

473
00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 1: think that, yes, Andy, but you can't argue with what

474
00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:48,399
Speaker 1: he's doing with his money. It's his job to be

475
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:51,879
Speaker 1: the steward of the family fortune, which I have to

476
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,160
Speaker 1: look at the story again, remember how many billions they're worth.

477
00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:58,639
Speaker 1: But I mean he's responsible for like one hundred or

478
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:02,240
Speaker 1: so people like they you know, live off of that. Yes,

479
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:05,440
Speaker 1: they yell. A family steak in Exor is worth about

480
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:08,360
Speaker 1: ten billion euros. So his job is to make sure

481
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:10,720
Speaker 1: that they live to fight another day, you know, to

482
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:13,720
Speaker 1: keep growing and making smart investments. But I do think

483
00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:17,480
Speaker 1: he has a vision of kind of being a patient investor.

484
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:20,840
Speaker 1: He's not just looking for a quick you know, pump

485
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:24,119
Speaker 1: and dump or you know, you know quick ROI like

486
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:27,120
Speaker 1: he does want to invest in like strategically important industries

487
00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 1: and things that are going to benefit society. I think

488
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:31,000
Speaker 1: that's all true, but he also has to, you know,

489
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:33,240
Speaker 1: look at the hard facts, like the mass market auto

490
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:35,080
Speaker 1: industry is under a lot of pressure right now. So

491
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:38,240
Speaker 1: if you look at what he's been doing with his money, yes,

492
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:42,280
Speaker 1: he has been you know, he's the still the steak

493
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:46,360
Speaker 1: in Stilantis, you know, is getting smaller, and he's investing

494
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:48,720
Speaker 1: more in other you know, tech. He's on the board

495
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:52,280
Speaker 1: of Meta now, so clearly like he's very focused on tech.

496
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:55,399
Speaker 1: But I think that you know, they said this. I

497
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:57,520
Speaker 1: obviously was in a lot of touch with his PR

498
00:25:57,560 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 1: people during the reporting of all this, and you know,

499
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 1: they say, look, there's he's gonna stand behind it. He's

500
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:07,040
Speaker 1: never not stood behind the company, so and they did.

501
00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:09,000
Speaker 1: I don't want to speculate on what he's going to do,

502
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 1: but they you know this, they got a lot of

503
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:11,280
Speaker 1: problems to.

504
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:14,920
Speaker 2: Solve, and they did actually find a replacement for Tavars,

505
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 2: someone internal, which is interesting. They found their unicorn, or

506
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:20,800
Speaker 2: they're hoping it's their unicorn.

507
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:21,720
Speaker 5: Yeah.

508
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:24,920
Speaker 1: I don't think what Dixie's a unicorn, but I think

509
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:29,640
Speaker 1: he's a very smart combatant, very well liked person, and

510
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:33,520
Speaker 1: by all accounts, he's you know, moving very quickly and decisively.

511
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:34,320
Speaker 5: I mean, it's just.

512
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:38,200
Speaker 1: That there's yes, sorry, Antonio Philos.

513
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:41,919
Speaker 4: Name, and I mean the guy has been with the

514
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 4: company for many years, like even a couple of decades, right,

515
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:48,360
Speaker 4: and he and he learned at the hand of Sergio.

516
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:50,600
Speaker 4: And I don't think we can leave out of the

517
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:54,720
Speaker 4: story how important Sergio was to el CON's initial success

518
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:55,760
Speaker 4: with Fiat Chrysler.

519
00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:57,920
Speaker 3: And how I mean we.

520
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:02,359
Speaker 4: Talk about superstar car CEOs, right, there's le Ayahcoca, there's

521
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:07,240
Speaker 4: Alan Molalley, there's Carlos Gone. You know, obviously fallen star,

522
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:10,679
Speaker 4: but still he was like a rock star. And Tavares

523
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:16,400
Speaker 4: also kind of a falling star. But Sergio was up

524
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:21,399
Speaker 4: there in the pantheon of the great. Absolutely, so I

525
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:25,840
Speaker 4: think I think he's he's such an amazing character and

526
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:29,560
Speaker 4: he touched so many people that his connection to Filosa

527
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:31,399
Speaker 4: has to give you some confidence, right.

528
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:34,159
Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely, I mean I think a lot of what

529
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:37,639
Speaker 1: they're doing is kind of trying to I mean the world,

530
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:40,720
Speaker 1: it's amazing how much Sergio and just for people don't

531
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 1: know Sergio Marcioni. He worked in some of the companies

532
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:47,199
Speaker 1: in the XRA portfolio, and Elkin kind of plucked him

533
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:49,880
Speaker 1: out of obscurity and made him the CEO of Fiat.

534
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:52,879
Speaker 1: In June two thousand and four, he became CEO of

535
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 1: Fiat and he basically engineered this amazing deal where he

536
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:01,240
Speaker 1: kind of got when christ Or went bankrupt in two

537
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:04,720
Speaker 1: thousand and nine, h Sergio got Obama to agree to

538
00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:08,399
Speaker 1: a deal to let Fiat and Chrysler merge, and he

539
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 1: kind of got an amazing deal. He kind of got

540
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 1: it for a song because he knew that Fiat needed

541
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:16,679
Speaker 1: a footprint outside of Italy and outside of Europe, and

542
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 1: at the time, Chrysler was thinking, we really need small

543
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:22,200
Speaker 1: cars because you know, gas prices were up, the industry

544
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 1: was in shambles. So he not only did he you know,

545
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 1: achieved that merger, but then he just revived the Jeep

546
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:33,000
Speaker 1: brand He's set. He kind of really instilled this kind

547
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:37,920
Speaker 1: of mentality of like understanding valuing the brands that sorry

548
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:40,480
Speaker 1: Fiat Chrysler had. He spun out Ferrari, which made a

549
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:43,960
Speaker 1: lot of money for Elkcan and you know, for investors,

550
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:47,800
Speaker 1: but he kind of just did things through his brilliance

551
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 1: and sheer force of will and charisma and savvy and

552
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:55,720
Speaker 1: deal making that you know, the average human probably would

553
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:56,800
Speaker 1: not have been able to pull off.

554
00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 5: And you know there's some yes.

555
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:02,960
Speaker 2: The six h smoking six cell phone guys.

556
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:06,200
Speaker 5: Workaholic. Yeah he spoke.

557
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, so yeah, So Filosa was a protege of him.

558
00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 1: Filosa is one of his guys. Filosa is Italian, but

559
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:15,960
Speaker 1: he spent most of his career in South America and

560
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:19,600
Speaker 1: Argentina and Brazil. He started out as a plant rat

561
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 1: in Spain, I think, or somewhere in Europe, and then

562
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:24,640
Speaker 1: he got sent to South America and kind of rose

563
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 1: up the chain managing Argentina and Brazil. He became head

564
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:31,960
Speaker 1: of South America. So yeah, everything I've heard about him

565
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 1: is that he's just he really listens, which is I

566
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 1: think really different from Tavarus, because kind of Tavarus's achilles

567
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:40,320
Speaker 1: Heel was that he had this great strategy, but then

568
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:42,719
Speaker 1: when it didn't quite wasn't a one size fit all

569
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 1: strategy and it wasn't working in the US. He didn't

570
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:48,360
Speaker 1: want to hear that. He's just anybody who wouldn't listened

571
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:49,720
Speaker 1: to him, he would just fire them or get rid

572
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:53,960
Speaker 1: of them. So I think Filosa is very different. He's

573
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:56,720
Speaker 1: very much a listener and you know, taking counsel and

574
00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:58,840
Speaker 1: things like that. But I mean, I think they're working

575
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:01,680
Speaker 1: as quickly as they can to kind of right the ship.

576
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 1: Is just that the market has to cooperate with them,

577
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 1: and it's hard. I mean, I just we're heading into

578
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 1: the close of the third quarter auto sales in the

579
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:12,080
Speaker 1: US and once again I'm the data showing that Stilantis

580
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 1: is one of the worst performers. So it just shows

581
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 1: you this is not a quick fix.

582
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 4: I'm Matt Miller along with Hannah Elliott. You're listening to

583
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 4: Hot Pursuit. We have more coming up after this. Can

584
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 4: I just say before I know that Hannah wants to

585
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 4: get to some of the iconic brands that they own

586
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 4: and beyond Ferrari, they really do like if you're a

587
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 4: lot of people think if you haven't dealt with Alfa Romeo,

588
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:45,320
Speaker 4: then you're not a real car lover, right, And then Maserati.

589
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 4: All the big collectors have a love for Maserati. But

590
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:53,840
Speaker 4: one of the things that they did wrong is they

591
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:57,760
Speaker 4: got too greedy during the pandemic. They took so much

592
00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:02,040
Speaker 4: price they raised the prices so much and tried to

593
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 4: turn jeep into this one hundred thousand dollars it's not.

594
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 4: And so that was a big problem for them, right,

595
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 4: They just had so much inventory because they were charging

596
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:13,600
Speaker 4: way too much for everything they were selling.

597
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 1: Yes, and I think, you know, they certainly weren't alone

598
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 1: in raising prices during the pandemic because there was such

599
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 1: a shortage of supply. I mean, the automakers they were

600
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 1: all loving it. They were all talking about, this is great,

601
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:28,200
Speaker 1: like we're not going back to the way things were were.

602
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 5: You know, this is wonderful. We're making so much money.

603
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 1: But eventually the market changes, you know, eventually the production

604
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 1: gets back up again, plants open, and things start to normalize,

605
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,160
Speaker 1: and then you don't have that pricing power anymore. And

606
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 1: then the other part of it is that, you know,

607
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:46,480
Speaker 1: during the pandemic is when this kind of run of

608
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 1: inflation got triggered and you know, caused the Federal Reserve

609
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:53,240
Speaker 1: to raise interest rates for the highest the highest level.

610
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:56,160
Speaker 1: And I don't know, maybe fifteen year are well over

611
00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:59,120
Speaker 1: a decade, so I mean almost my entire adult life,

612
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 1: not give away my age, but we've had like really

613
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:05,800
Speaker 1: low interest rates, and I think that has really served

614
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 1: the auto industry, the American auto industry well ever since

615
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:11,960
Speaker 1: two thousand and nine.

616
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:16,400
Speaker 2: And I also that an aging lineup also works poorly

617
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 2: with the scenario that you're described.

618
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 1: For sure, Yes, yes, for sure, So that's an important

619
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 1: point I should mention that too. But basically, yes, Jeep

620
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:26,239
Speaker 1: was made for the for the times of you know,

621
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 1: boom boom times when Americans could splurge and splurge on

622
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:33,120
Speaker 1: credit and get cheap credit to buy the car that

623
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:36,240
Speaker 1: their heart desires. And I just don't think that's the

624
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:39,200
Speaker 1: case anymore. There's a real affordability issue and more people

625
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 1: are leaving the new car market moving to the used

626
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 1: car market than looking for value. Every quarter this year

627
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 1: I look at what are the best selling cars. It's

628
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 1: like the Chevy Tracks or like Jep.

629
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:50,560
Speaker 2: They had ever heard of it?

630
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, the Jeep Compass. I mean, all you know, more

631
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:56,959
Speaker 1: affordable is what people want right now, and that's just

632
00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:01,960
Speaker 1: not how Stillandis's lineup was positioned the same time. Yes,

633
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:04,560
Speaker 1: another thing Tavirus did in his kind of drive to

634
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:07,960
Speaker 1: cut costs was he would say the example I talked

635
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 1: about a lot in the story was the Jeep Cherokee.

636
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:12,520
Speaker 1: You know, the big sellers for Jeep have always been

637
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:14,720
Speaker 1: the Wrangler, you know, it's their halo vehicle, and the

638
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 1: Grand cher achainst their top seller. But then you had

639
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:19,160
Speaker 1: the Cherokee, which was kind of middling. It was in

640
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 1: the middle. People felt like the it kind of was

641
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:24,720
Speaker 1: like the weird the length, the wheelbase wasn't quite right,

642
00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:27,560
Speaker 1: it was a roominess wasn't quite right. So they made

643
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:29,960
Speaker 1: it in Velvedere, Illinois.

644
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 5: It was old, it needed to be updated.

645
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 1: So Tavarius you know, stopped that and said, okay, we're

646
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:36,720
Speaker 1: going to move to Mexico because again he was all

647
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 1: about lower lowering costs. So that was a huge political

648
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 1: you know, kerfuffle. The UAW was not happy about that.

649
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:46,160
Speaker 1: But also instead of saying, okay, well we're going to

650
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 1: continue to make this here until the Mexican plant is

651
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 1: up and running, he just ended it. So then, and

652
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:55,800
Speaker 1: that's right when the market was shifting to people really

653
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:58,200
Speaker 1: want affordability. And then it was like, uh, oh, Jeep

654
00:33:58,320 --> 00:33:59,520
Speaker 1: just doesn't have a car there.

655
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:00,720
Speaker 5: You don't have that.

656
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 1: Either had the Compass, but then the Cherokee was the

657
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:05,400
Speaker 1: next size up and they didn't have anything for like

658
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:09,719
Speaker 1: over two years, so that I mean what you're seeing now,

659
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:12,120
Speaker 1: they've lost so much volume. I was talking to a

660
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:14,760
Speaker 1: dealer in California and he said, you know, we're starting

661
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:17,000
Speaker 1: to feel it in our service and repair business because

662
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:19,160
Speaker 1: there's not as many cars coming back that need to

663
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:21,680
Speaker 1: be serviced because that we've just lost so much volume.

664
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:25,560
Speaker 5: So it's like, yeah, what.

665
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:28,919
Speaker 2: Can you tell us about Maserati and Alpha Romeo. I mean,

666
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:32,440
Speaker 2: in terms of what is going on with those two brands,

667
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 2: We've heard about Jeep of course, and Chrysler and Dodge

668
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:40,279
Speaker 2: a bit, but Maserati and Alpha just seem to have

669
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 2: fallen off the cliff completely.

670
00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:46,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I think they. Tavares did bring in

671
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 1: one of his executives who had worked with before, a

672
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:56,799
Speaker 1: guy named Larry Dominique, who tried to revive Alpha Romeo,

673
00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:58,680
Speaker 1: and he put a lot of effort into it. I

674
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 1: mean I remember seeing all that, you know, the marketing

675
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:05,360
Speaker 1: stuff they were doing. They have the Tanale, the Hybrid,

676
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 1: I mean, they had some really good looking cars. I

677
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:09,239
Speaker 1: don't know, I thought the cars that they were trying

678
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:10,200
Speaker 1: to sell here were nice.

679
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 4: I just they are also beloved, I mean, even like

680
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 4: the Julia is a great BMW three series competitor, and

681
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:24,760
Speaker 4: the Stelvio had critical success. I mean, people journalists really

682
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 4: love to drive that vehicle. But I suspect that one

683
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:32,719
Speaker 4: of the problems was if you're putting them up against

684
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:36,879
Speaker 4: BMW's there would be a concern among US buyers about

685
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:40,720
Speaker 4: the reliability of the Italian of the Italian cars.

686
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:44,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's you know, quality has been a They're

687
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:46,799
Speaker 1: not the only ones, but yes, quality has been a

688
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:48,280
Speaker 1: chronic concern from.

689
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:50,920
Speaker 3: For fix it again, Tony, right, fix it.

690
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:53,480
Speaker 1: Again, Tony. They didn't get that nickname for nothing. Yeah,

691
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:55,840
Speaker 1: I know, that's one of Phillis's big priorties now is

692
00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:59,439
Speaker 1: trying to fix that. But that's quite a bear. So yeah,

693
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:01,520
Speaker 1: I just say, now, of course you've got tariffs. So

694
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:05,040
Speaker 1: you've got fifteen percent tariffs on important cars from Europe.

695
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:08,400
Speaker 1: So how do you talk about you're already struggling, and

696
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:10,719
Speaker 1: then now what do you do? And then Maserati, I mean,

697
00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:13,279
Speaker 1: I feel like as long as I've been on this beat,

698
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:16,080
Speaker 1: which is like nine years, Maserati was always struggling. They

699
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:17,880
Speaker 1: were trying to make it profitable, trying to make it

700
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 1: lose money. I mean, make it make money. I was

701
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:24,439
Speaker 1: just talking to someone yesterday and they said that they

702
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 1: just feel like what Maserati really needs to succeed is

703
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:29,880
Speaker 1: kind of that same kind of innovation and spirit that

704
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 1: Ferrari has. But and also that there's it's a lot

705
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:35,920
Speaker 1: of there's a lot of fried around the Italian brands

706
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:38,239
Speaker 1: of people do things the Italian way, and this is

707
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:41,120
Speaker 1: you know, it's sometimes you got to break some eggs,

708
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:42,799
Speaker 1: I think, to like shake things up, and I feel

709
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:45,080
Speaker 1: like it's hard to do that. At least that was

710
00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:48,880
Speaker 1: this person's perspective. Someoney who you know, worked on these brands,

711
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:50,600
Speaker 1: so that's kind of like more of.

712
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 4: A they need more cylinders and they need to win races,

713
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:56,080
Speaker 4: I think, you know.

714
00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:58,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, racing again. Get back to their rooms.

715
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 4: They're they're going to help, They're getting back into it

716
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:02,880
Speaker 4: and they're they're doing their best, at least from the

717
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:07,439
Speaker 4: from what I'm watching in in in sports, but it's

718
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:09,440
Speaker 4: not going to cut it with the V six. You know,

719
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:14,080
Speaker 4: they they have to have an eight to survive in

720
00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:16,719
Speaker 4: a ten or twelve to distinguish themselves.

721
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:22,920
Speaker 2: Gabby is Lapo at all involved on a daily basis.

722
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:28,240
Speaker 2: This is the uh irascible brother of Jows who's really

723
00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:31,799
Speaker 2: famous for making headlines in.

724
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:33,080
Speaker 3: Tablet kidnapping himself.

725
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:39,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, but also a military paratrooper, very nice and charming.

726
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:41,040
Speaker 2: I've spoke with him multiple times.

727
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:44,040
Speaker 5: Yes, I think you know much more about him than

728
00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:44,239
Speaker 5: I do.

729
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:47,320
Speaker 2: Character. I'm just curious if he's in you know, active

730
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:47,680
Speaker 2: at all.

731
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:50,799
Speaker 1: And I did not hear that at all. I mean

732
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:52,799
Speaker 1: I heard he's kind of living a quiet life with

733
00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:56,600
Speaker 1: his family in Europe. He's kind of settled down from

734
00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:57,160
Speaker 1: a lot of his.

735
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:01,200
Speaker 5: Younger days.

736
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:07,160
Speaker 2: He certainly inherited the charisma absolutely from the family John,

737
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:10,800
Speaker 2: you know, like you say, is not charismatic, very reserved.

738
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:13,439
Speaker 2: I mean he's been to your point about him really

739
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 2: caring about Ferrari. He's been at Ferrari events and that

740
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:18,239
Speaker 2: sort of thing. And he's tough to pick out of

741
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:22,920
Speaker 2: a crowd. I mean he's so conservative. Just the blue suit.

742
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:24,520
Speaker 3: About John Alcon right now.

743
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:26,600
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yeah, Lapo is the opposite.

744
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:28,680
Speaker 3: Because Lopo is incredibly colorful.

745
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:30,400
Speaker 2: And he's got all his grandfather suits.

746
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:32,760
Speaker 4: And and he didn't he do it for a while

747
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:37,719
Speaker 4: he was doing like custom interiors for Ferraris and maybe

748
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:38,720
Speaker 4: even paint jobs.

749
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:43,800
Speaker 2: Watches. Wow, he does have a design design I think.

750
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:46,160
Speaker 1: The design and marketing flair. He has a real talent

751
00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:49,480
Speaker 1: for that that certainly. Yeah, he's a great personality, but

752
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 1: you know, not involved. I think he's laying low.

753
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:54,239
Speaker 2: Yeah.

754
00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:56,200
Speaker 5: I think we I had him in the story and

755
00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:59,279
Speaker 5: we took it. We took it out. But tell us, yeah,

756
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:00,680
Speaker 5: tell us the major player.

757
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 4: Now, tell us about Tim Kiniskus, because I think it's

758
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:05,839
Speaker 4: unfair for me to lay the blame of the death

759
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:08,480
Speaker 4: of the hemy on his doorstep. Right, he probably got

760
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:11,200
Speaker 4: orders from high up, and by all accounts, he is

761
00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:14,560
Speaker 4: a muscle car guy. And now they've brought him back, right.

762
00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:17,120
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Well, I think he came back like a

763
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:19,719
Speaker 1: couple of weeks after tavirus got pushed out, so it

764
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:21,719
Speaker 1: didn't take I don't think it was a tough sell

765
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:24,279
Speaker 1: to get him to come back. And I think, you know,

766
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:26,560
Speaker 1: Tip Caniscus. I think he's from upstate New York. He

767
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:29,240
Speaker 1: grew up kind of tinkering with cars in his garage

768
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:32,000
Speaker 1: and then got to start in like working in dealerships

769
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:34,400
Speaker 1: and worked his way up. And he's probably one of

770
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:40,080
Speaker 1: the last, like Sergio Era, kind of just people who've

771
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:42,640
Speaker 1: been there. He spent most of his career at Fiat Chrysler,

772
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:45,160
Speaker 1: and he is I mean, his most famous feet is

773
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:48,239
Speaker 1: he kind of revived the Dodge brand, you know, during

774
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:51,399
Speaker 1: that Sergio era by creating the Brotherhood of Muscle by

775
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:54,960
Speaker 1: you know, taking these platforms, these vehicles that were old

776
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:58,960
Speaker 1: as Methuselah, but he would put these like big souped

777
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:01,680
Speaker 1: up engines in them and uh, like I talk you know,

778
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:04,400
Speaker 1: the Hellcat or the Red Eye or the Demon like

779
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:06,560
Speaker 1: people just love it and they could charge a lot

780
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:07,239
Speaker 1: of money for.

781
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:09,920
Speaker 2: It, and like grinding ear to ear right now, he.

782
00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:11,239
Speaker 5: Loves that that's made for you.

783
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:14,279
Speaker 1: So he yes, he is kind I think, you know,

784
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:16,600
Speaker 1: and you say, oh, this happened under his watch, but

785
00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:19,719
Speaker 1: I mean he left the company at twenty twenty four

786
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:23,200
Speaker 1: kind of you know, I think silent protests maybe, but

787
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:26,759
Speaker 1: he's back and he's been given He came back to

788
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:30,080
Speaker 1: run the Ram truck brand and he's been you know,

789
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:32,799
Speaker 1: shaking up the line up there. They just recently said

790
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:35,080
Speaker 1: they're not even going to make a fully electric pickup

791
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:38,160
Speaker 1: truck anymore. They're going to focus on this EREV called

792
00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:40,279
Speaker 1: the Ram Charger, which is I think throughout the end

793
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:43,440
Speaker 1: of this year. So it's funny Stilanta sometimes like they

794
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:47,880
Speaker 1: kind of relate to the EV wave, which in some

795
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:50,279
Speaker 1: ways I guess was kind of a blessing because you know,

796
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:52,200
Speaker 1: they still have had to invest a lot of money

797
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:54,280
Speaker 1: on EV's that are not selling, and that's very painful.

798
00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:57,719
Speaker 1: But they're just canceling stuff. I mean, they recently said

799
00:40:57,719 --> 00:41:00,759
Speaker 1: they're not going to do the plug in hybrid Wrangler, Uh,

800
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:02,240
Speaker 1: the four by E Wrangler anymore.

801
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:07,800
Speaker 3: So popular those four by they're.

802
00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:09,520
Speaker 1: They're like the number one p have seller, but I guess,

803
00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:12,120
Speaker 1: you know, it's expensive, and they they're starting to put

804
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:15,000
Speaker 1: these like hybrid engines, like the new Jeep Cherokee starting

805
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:17,719
Speaker 1: with a hybrid. Uh, it's like an engine out of

806
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:20,440
Speaker 1: Europe that's been adapted for the US, they say, but

807
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:24,000
Speaker 1: it's just like a plain vanilla hybrid. There's no plug,

808
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:26,520
Speaker 1: but you know, better fuel economy. So they did that

809
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:29,680
Speaker 1: in the Cherokee. I think they're totally like, you know,

810
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:35,400
Speaker 1: re thinking they're powertrain choices their you know, model lineup.

811
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:37,880
Speaker 1: We're going to really hear a lot more in the

812
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:40,160
Speaker 1: first quarter of next year. That's when the Fellows is

813
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:42,520
Speaker 1: supposed to come out with his like strategy for the company.

814
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:45,719
Speaker 1: But you know, it's just hard because there's not a

815
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:48,839
Speaker 1: lot of clarity. I mean, tariffs negotiations are still going on.

816
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:50,960
Speaker 1: But I think big picture of the whole auto industry

817
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:52,800
Speaker 1: realizes like, man, we got to make more stuff in

818
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:54,839
Speaker 1: the United States, and that is.

819
00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:58,640
Speaker 4: And they've done away with cafe standards or at least

820
00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:01,440
Speaker 4: the fines, right, the regular around that is gone, so

821
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:04,520
Speaker 4: they can bring back the HEMI. They have a great

822
00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:08,480
Speaker 4: inline six motor, the Hurricane five ten is one of

823
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:11,080
Speaker 4: the variants. They changed the name of the RAM charger

824
00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:14,279
Speaker 4: to the RAM REV, so that's the E Rev.

825
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:16,080
Speaker 1: Oh, but I think the RAM really, I think the

826
00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:18,160
Speaker 1: RAM Rev was see this was confused. I think it's

827
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:19,920
Speaker 1: some of the confusion that they were trying to eliminate. So

828
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:22,640
Speaker 1: the RAM Rev was the BEV truck, right, and now

829
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:25,440
Speaker 1: they're saying just e Rev, but that one's called RAM Charger.

830
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:28,680
Speaker 4: No, I don't have to so it's just let me see.

831
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:33,440
Speaker 4: So the b EV truck, you're right, has been canceled.

832
00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:36,920
Speaker 4: And I believe now I honestly you only know this

833
00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:39,399
Speaker 4: from being in like forums because I'm on all the

834
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:41,719
Speaker 4: Dodge and RAM forums that they've changed the end of

835
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:44,200
Speaker 4: the RAM charger. Now it'll be called the RAM fifteen

836
00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:45,759
Speaker 4: hundred rev or the RAM rev.

837
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:48,799
Speaker 5: Oh you are right. Oh my gosh, look at you.

838
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:51,480
Speaker 3: Use Revolution Electric whatever.

839
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:53,160
Speaker 1: I really did know what's going with cars. I just

840
00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:57,640
Speaker 1: talked to you guys. You know, I'm just a specifically Okay,

841
00:42:57,680 --> 00:42:59,480
Speaker 1: I was thinking it was the Okay, so the charger

842
00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 1: name got retired and now it's the RAM fifteen hundred riv.

843
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:04,680
Speaker 5: Okay, okay, I staying corrected.

844
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:06,839
Speaker 4: I will say also that I really like the EV

845
00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:11,000
Speaker 4: uh Challenger, which is now called a charger.

846
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:13,120
Speaker 3: They'd really try and confuse you.

847
00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:14,759
Speaker 5: With this stuff, but they really do.

848
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:16,560
Speaker 3: So let's just finish on this.

849
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:19,080
Speaker 4: I mean, you are looking to buy a new EV

850
00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:23,040
Speaker 4: and you kind of liked it too. What what what

851
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:23,880
Speaker 4: what didn't sell it?

852
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:25,920
Speaker 3: Or what? What ruined the sale for you at the end?

853
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:27,680
Speaker 3: For the for the Dodge.

854
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:32,759
Speaker 1: Challenger, Oh, it's just really big and heavy. I don't

855
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:36,359
Speaker 1: I'm not like a big, punky, clunky car. I like

856
00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:38,839
Speaker 1: like to be feelmore. I mean, I know it's got

857
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:41,319
Speaker 1: a lot of power and everything, but and it did

858
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:43,560
Speaker 1: start to grow on me, like they talk about. There

859
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:45,560
Speaker 1: was all this talk about Oh, I mean you even

860
00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:48,920
Speaker 1: mentioned it earlier, like the how do you how does Dodge?

861
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:50,440
Speaker 1: How do you keep the soul of the brand? If

862
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:52,880
Speaker 1: you don't have a roaring you know, HEMI engine inside?

863
00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:56,600
Speaker 1: But whatever sound. They've come up with the kind of uh,

864
00:43:56,880 --> 00:44:01,000
Speaker 1: you knowsonic chamber, the fret soonic chain. It has this

865
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:03,719
Speaker 1: kind of a perr that at first I was like, oh,

866
00:44:03,719 --> 00:44:05,360
Speaker 1: this is absurd, but then I started to it, like,

867
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:07,600
Speaker 1: really grew on me. It gave the car personality.

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00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:10,080
Speaker 2: You can't turn it off if you if you don't

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00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:11,320
Speaker 2: like it, yeah.

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00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:13,520
Speaker 5: You can turn it off. So what did it? I

871
00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:14,480
Speaker 5: mean at the end of the day.

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00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:17,160
Speaker 1: When I moved to Detroit, you know, six years ago,

873
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:18,879
Speaker 1: and I had to pick out a car, I said,

874
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:21,440
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, this is just you start to realize

875
00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:25,200
Speaker 1: undeniable truths about yourself, Like you just match a certain

876
00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:27,440
Speaker 1: profile and like that is what you want and I

877
00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:29,640
Speaker 1: just don't know that. I think it's a really fun car,

878
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:31,960
Speaker 1: but I don't know if it's me.

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00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:36,560
Speaker 4: Well, Gabby, I so appreciate you joining us. You are

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00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:39,919
Speaker 4: one of my very favorite reporters at Bloomberg, so I'm

881
00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:42,440
Speaker 4: glad we could get you on the show. And it's

882
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:46,279
Speaker 4: a great I recommend that everybody read it. You can

883
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:48,120
Speaker 4: find it on Bloomberg dot com, of course, or you

884
00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:49,319
Speaker 4: can find it if you have it, if you're lucky

885
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:51,400
Speaker 4: enough to have a Bloomberg terminal, and you can just

886
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:54,800
Speaker 4: bio Gabriella Coppola and you can find it there.

887
00:44:54,719 --> 00:44:58,080
Speaker 1: Or you can find me on Gabrielle Copola reports on Instagram.

888
00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:00,319
Speaker 1: I have an Instagram, uh, you know, or I share

889
00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 1: a lot of the interesting stories I'm doing. You could

890
00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:04,359
Speaker 1: follow me there as well. But I really appreciate you

891
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:07,279
Speaker 1: guys and all the actual car knowledge and cred that

892
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:09,720
Speaker 1: you both bring to our I think together we're a fearsome,

893
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:11,600
Speaker 1: fearsome force.

894
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:15,080
Speaker 3: Thank you so much. Our trio awesome.

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00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:16,000
Speaker 5: Our trio.

896
00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:21,760
Speaker 2: That does it for this week's show. Remember to follow

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00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:25,680
Speaker 2: and subscribe to Bloomberg cop Pursuit on Apple, Spotify and

898
00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:29,120
Speaker 2: anywhere else you listen. You can also send us your comments.

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00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:31,760
Speaker 2: We do read them, and we do try to respond

900
00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:34,680
Speaker 2: as much as we're able. Email us at hot Pursuit

901
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:36,399
Speaker 2: at Bloomberg dot net.

902
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:39,040
Speaker 4: And check out Hannah's columns and stories on Bloomberg dot

903
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:41,560
Speaker 4: com and on the Bloomberg Business app. Go there for

904
00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:44,879
Speaker 4: car reviews, events, and stories that you won't find anywhere else.

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00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:48,360
Speaker 4: Find it all at Bloomberg dot Com, Slash Pursuits, slash Autos.

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00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:51,479
Speaker 2: I'm Matt Miller and I'm Hannah Elliott. We'll be back

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00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:53,279
Speaker 2: in your podcast speed again next week.

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00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:01,439
Speaker 5: Keep