1 00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 1: This is Masters in Business with Barry Ridholtz on Boomberg Radio. 2 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:10,760 Speaker 1: This week on the podcast, I have an extra special guest. 3 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:14,400 Speaker 1: His name is Ron Williams, and he is the former 4 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:18,960 Speaker 1: chairman and CEO of healthcare giant Etna. He came in 5 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:22,080 Speaker 1: to turn the company around when it looked like it 6 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:26,520 Speaker 1: was sort of doing the circling the drain type of thing. Uh. 7 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 1: Not only did he turn the company around, he made 8 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 1: it extremely profitable and it soon thereafter got purchased by CVS. 9 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 1: This was about a year ago, a few years after 10 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 1: he left h He has a really interesting new book 11 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:46,519 Speaker 1: out and he is quite the expert on leadership and 12 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:49,600 Speaker 1: the proper ways to to run a company and to 13 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:54,200 Speaker 1: really get buy ins from all the constituencies that a 14 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:58,720 Speaker 1: big entity like healthcare giant like ETNA has. So I 15 00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:02,040 Speaker 1: think you'll find this to be a fascinating conversation with 16 00:01:02,120 --> 00:01:08,040 Speaker 1: no further ado. Here's my interview with Ron Williams. This 17 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:12,560 Speaker 1: is Masters in Business with Barry Ridholts on Bloomberg Radio. 18 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 1: My special guest today is Ron Williams. He is the 19 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:21,560 Speaker 1: former chairman and chief executive officer of Etna Healthcare, the 20 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:25,039 Speaker 1: giant company purchase last year by CVS. He is on 21 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:31,040 Speaker 1: the board of directors for such August companies as American Express, Boeing, 22 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:35,720 Speaker 1: and Johnson and Johnson. UH. He received his NBA from 23 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:39,200 Speaker 1: the M I. T. Sloan School of Management, and he 24 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 1: is a newly published author. His book Learning to Lead 25 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 1: By Leading Yourself, Others and an Organization UH is just 26 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:51,480 Speaker 1: out recently. Ron Williams, Welcome to Bloomberg. Well, thank you. 27 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 1: It's a pleasure to be here. So let's start with 28 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 1: your background. You have kind of an interesting background. You 29 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:00,280 Speaker 1: grow up the son of a bus drive ever and 30 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 1: a manicurist on the South side of Chicago. That's not 31 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:08,600 Speaker 1: the typical background for a thirty billion dollar company CEO, 32 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 1: is it. No, it's not. I was very fortunate in 33 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 1: my life. UM. I went to public schools and UH 34 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 1: went to a community college for two years, then went 35 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 1: on to Roosevelt and started working and ultimately found my 36 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:26,240 Speaker 1: way to M I. T. So in the book, you 37 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 1: tell this really interesting story in the beginning about working 38 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 1: in the winters in a car wash in Chicago, and 39 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 1: you found that to be quite an constructive experience. Tell 40 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:41,760 Speaker 1: us about that, Well, it was highly instructive in the 41 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 1: sense that in Chicago there's snow and slush, and when 42 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:50,560 Speaker 1: there's a sunny, clear day in the day of winter 43 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:54,359 Speaker 1: and it is colder than you can imagine, everyone decides 44 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 1: it's a great day to wash your car. Sure, I 45 00:02:56,800 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 1: gotta get the salt and the mud off the car. 46 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 1: And and when you wash cars and so end up 47 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:04,840 Speaker 1: soaking wet, you end up soaking wet. And my job 48 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 1: was to uh wash the cars as they pulled up. 49 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 1: I would um climb inside the car, clean the inside windows, 50 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 1: wash the outside, then go down as the car moved 51 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 1: to the line and dry the car off. On a 52 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 1: very busy day, I would do that times. And the 53 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 1: one thing I learned from that experience was I did 54 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:31,359 Speaker 1: not want to do that for the rest of my life. 55 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:34,200 Speaker 1: That that was the clear takeaway. Hey, there's got to 56 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 1: be a better way to earn a living than than this. 57 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 1: So so you go to eventually end up an m 58 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 1: I T. Where you graduate with an m b A. 59 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:47,200 Speaker 1: How did you find your way into the healthcare sector? 60 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:50,240 Speaker 1: You know? I uh. At m I T. There was 61 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 1: a huge focus on entrepreneurial activity, and one of the 62 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 1: areas I focused on was the um operational management of 63 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 1: cervices businesses, which was a completely new area because everything 64 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:05,960 Speaker 1: that had been done in marketing up to that point 65 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:09,880 Speaker 1: was all about products as opposed to services. And in 66 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 1: one of my entrepreneurial classes, we had a gentleman come 67 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 1: in named Mitch Kapoor. Mitch was the founder and creator 68 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 1: of Lotus one two three, which was the original eventually 69 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:25,560 Speaker 1: bought by IBM, eventually bought by BM, and he built 70 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 1: Lotus one to three after he worked on the original 71 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 1: spreadsheet called VisiCalc. And it was interesting to hear his 72 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 1: story about how he created a company, and ultimately I 73 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 1: was highly successful in selling the company, and so I 74 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:44,200 Speaker 1: became interested in entrepreneurial activity. So when I left m 75 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:48,560 Speaker 1: I T, I ended up joining some partners I met 76 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:52,159 Speaker 1: who were starting a healthcare company in California. I knew 77 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 1: nothing about healthcare, but I knew a lot about the 78 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:59,919 Speaker 1: operational management services businesses. And this was a services business 79 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 1: that was bringing the treatment for chemical dependency and substance 80 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:09,120 Speaker 1: abuse out of the hospital into an amiliatory center where 81 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 1: people who had good family support and we're beginning to 82 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:15,359 Speaker 1: have problems could come in after work and get the 83 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 1: care that they needed. It was a huge cost savings 84 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:22,039 Speaker 1: to the companies and for the families. It made care 85 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 1: and treatment much more accessible. So that started me down 86 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 1: the road of healthcare, and ultimately we sold the company 87 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:31,160 Speaker 1: and I looked around and I joined Blue Cross of California. 88 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:36,600 Speaker 1: So from entrepreneurship, you now join a fairly large company. 89 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:39,839 Speaker 1: What was that transition like, because it's obviously very different 90 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 1: when it's just you and a handful of people running 91 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:46,120 Speaker 1: a startup, where there's no intrense way of doing things 92 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 1: and a lot of freedom to experiment. Suddenly you're in 93 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 1: a giant entity. Well, I think, Um, the experience that 94 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:55,719 Speaker 1: that I had actually before I went to graduate school 95 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:58,479 Speaker 1: was at a company called Control Data. Now Control Data 96 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:01,120 Speaker 1: had seventy thousand employees, so I had been in a 97 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 1: company with seventy thousand. Then I started a company with 98 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 1: three and I went to Blue Cross that had about 99 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:10,640 Speaker 1: five thousand employees. So um, I have to say the 100 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:14,080 Speaker 1: size didn't worry me as much as the culture. I 101 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 1: jokingly and it was half humorous and a half not 102 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 1: that the places I was interested in working at the 103 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:21,640 Speaker 1: bottom of the list was the federal government, state government, 104 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 1: and then Blue Cross. Because I actually had had some 105 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:27,800 Speaker 1: experience in state government as well, and but I met 106 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:30,440 Speaker 1: the team. They were a really dynamic group of people 107 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 1: who had a vision to transform the company, and I 108 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:36,600 Speaker 1: joined and that's really where I kind of did the 109 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:40,839 Speaker 1: apprenticeship of running all aspects of that company and ultimately 110 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:44,599 Speaker 1: really uh to develop a complete knowledge of the health 111 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:47,960 Speaker 1: care system. So did you aspire to the C suite 112 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:51,479 Speaker 1: or were you more interested in looking at companies that 113 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 1: were um either in need of some assistance or in 114 00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:59,440 Speaker 1: edness case a giant turnaround. What what was the motivation 115 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:02,880 Speaker 1: when you left Blue Cross and joined that now, Well, 116 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 1: I think when I was at M I t one 117 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 1: of the unique things I think they did was they 118 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 1: brought in alumni who were CEOs, and we would have 119 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 1: dinners maybe once a month, to be fourteen of us 120 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 1: at a time who would sit down with the CEO 121 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 1: and hear their story and hear their journey. And as 122 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 1: I heard those stories and heard those journeys, somewhere in 123 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 1: there the light went on and said, you know, I 124 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 1: think I could do that. I could learn to do that. 125 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:32,040 Speaker 1: I couldn't do it today, but I could see a 126 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:35,480 Speaker 1: path where with the right experience and the right opportunities 127 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:38,240 Speaker 1: I could learn to be a CEO. So for me, 128 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:41,120 Speaker 1: that was kind of the beginning of a distant light 129 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 1: on the horizon that said, you know, I think maybe 130 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 1: I could learn to do that. Let's talk a little 131 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:49,680 Speaker 1: bit about the health care system in America. On the 132 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 1: one hand, we have absolutely a fabulous level of medical care, 133 00:07:55,240 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 1: just incredible innovations, incredible life saving techniques. On the other hands, 134 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:05,680 Speaker 1: the business side of healthcare you mentioned earlier, it's opaque. 135 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 1: We have no idea about pricing, there's no transparency. Americans 136 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:14,840 Speaker 1: seem to pay the most amount for procedures, for for 137 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 1: prescriptions for drugs. Is the system broken and how can 138 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:22,920 Speaker 1: it be fixed? If it is well, I would say 139 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:25,680 Speaker 1: that the system is not broken. The system is not 140 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 1: optimized that if you need healthcare in America, if you 141 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:34,120 Speaker 1: have insurance, you get fabulous healthcare. But we do have 142 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 1: a segment of the population that even today does not 143 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 1: have insurance and where they're not getting access to the 144 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:43,040 Speaker 1: services that those of us who are insured would be. Now, 145 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:46,760 Speaker 1: when you think about the cost of the US healthcare system, 146 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:50,240 Speaker 1: it is more expensive and we spend more than other countries. 147 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:54,320 Speaker 1: But our system is uniquely American and by that I 148 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 1: mean one of the ways that other countries control the 149 00:08:57,080 --> 00:08:59,560 Speaker 1: rate of increase is they set a budget. We don't 150 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 1: set a chit. They actually are have many, many instances 151 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:07,920 Speaker 1: a culture that accepts waiting. So if you need a 152 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 1: hip replacement, and you may be uh needed, but you 153 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 1: believe today in other countries, you might not get it 154 00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:19,120 Speaker 1: for months or in some places years. Canada is probably 155 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:21,880 Speaker 1: the poster child has you have to wait for many, 156 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 1: many services. You know, if someone were to be told 157 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 1: to wait in the US, their answer would be, you're 158 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:28,839 Speaker 1: gonna hear from me, You're gonna hear from my congressmen, 159 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:32,280 Speaker 1: you're gonna hear from my attorney. I want what I want. 160 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:35,720 Speaker 1: The other issue is that other countries really do ration 161 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:38,080 Speaker 1: care in the sense that's saying you may be eighty 162 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 1: years old, you may be extremely fit, you may be 163 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:42,719 Speaker 1: in great shape, but we think you're too old for 164 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:46,200 Speaker 1: a hip replacement, and so that's not something that we 165 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:50,080 Speaker 1: uh endorse and encourage. I think there is an opportunity 166 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 1: to create much more value in healthcare and make healthcare 167 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 1: more affordable, and I think one of the secrets of 168 00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:59,560 Speaker 1: that is to restore the primacy of the primary care 169 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:02,960 Speaker 1: physician as the person who really is the guide and 170 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:05,800 Speaker 1: coach to the patient to try to make certain that 171 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:08,640 Speaker 1: health care is looked at from end to end and 172 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 1: also that patient preferences are taken into account so a 173 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:16,360 Speaker 1: patient can make an informed decision of is surgery better 174 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 1: or should I try medication? What is the best course 175 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:23,679 Speaker 1: of action? And those are judgments the patients really need 176 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 1: to make in consultation with their position. Can we make 177 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:31,280 Speaker 1: the personal physician the quarterback of somebody's health care? It 178 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:36,200 Speaker 1: seems like the way the cost structure has changed, they've 179 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:39,520 Speaker 1: become under pressure to see a lot more patients UM 180 00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 1: in a shorter period of time. I happen to be lucky. 181 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 1: My personal physician UM coincidentally is a cardiac expert, and 182 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:51,880 Speaker 1: every time I have a physical with him, we sit 183 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:55,080 Speaker 1: down in the office and he spends twenty minutes UM 184 00:10:55,080 --> 00:11:00,400 Speaker 1: going over everything. I think that sort of relationship is 185 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:03,040 Speaker 1: not the rule. That seems to be the exception. Most 186 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:07,439 Speaker 1: people aren't fortunate enough to have that sort of primary 187 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:12,040 Speaker 1: care physician. It's a much more assembly line type of situation. 188 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:17,200 Speaker 1: How can we create the financial incentives for those doctors 189 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:20,920 Speaker 1: to be focused on not just the billable procedure, but 190 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:25,319 Speaker 1: the overall um health of the patient, well, I think 191 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 1: one of the answers that we're beginning to see is 192 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:31,480 Speaker 1: the use of what's called integrated care systems. And in 193 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:34,959 Speaker 1: those systems, one of the things that many health plans 194 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:39,280 Speaker 1: are doing is to take the premium dollar that's paid 195 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:42,480 Speaker 1: for insurance and instead of paying the physician on a 196 00:11:42,559 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 1: piecework or activity basis, to pay the the the system 197 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 1: on a percentage of the premium, and say eight of 198 00:11:52,040 --> 00:11:54,439 Speaker 1: the premium is going to go to health care services. 199 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:57,200 Speaker 1: You don't have to try to figure out what's the 200 00:11:57,280 --> 00:11:59,520 Speaker 1: code to put this patient in an uber or a 201 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:03,120 Speaker 1: lift bring them in for a visit, because if they 202 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:05,720 Speaker 1: can't get to your office for care, then it's going 203 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:08,960 Speaker 1: to be a lot more expensive. And so getting away 204 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:12,720 Speaker 1: from the piecemeal a lot of the kind of activity 205 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:16,679 Speaker 1: based care will pass those resources to the integrated delivery 206 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 1: system and they can use those resources in ways that 207 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:24,400 Speaker 1: really manage the patient outside of the office and outside 208 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:27,840 Speaker 1: of the hospital. If you think about healthcare, most of 209 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:31,240 Speaker 1: the things that impact healthcare actually happen in the home, 210 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 1: in the community, at work, and so we have to 211 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:38,160 Speaker 1: think about getting the healthcare system much more involved in 212 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:41,960 Speaker 1: those spaces by working with the patient. What about costs 213 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:46,040 Speaker 1: of various drugs? You know, when we pass them, what 214 00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:49,920 Speaker 1: does it Medicare Section D for prescription drug costs, There 215 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:52,960 Speaker 1: was a lot of lobbying from the pharmaceutical industry and 216 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:56,000 Speaker 1: there is not only is there no cap on costs, 217 00:12:56,440 --> 00:13:01,320 Speaker 1: but there is a prohibition on the government negotiating prices 218 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:05,199 Speaker 1: on on behalf of Medicaid Medicare, which is just outrageous. 219 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:08,520 Speaker 1: It makes Medicaid costs more. That has to trickle down 220 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:11,480 Speaker 1: to what private insurers are paying for drugs. Well, I 221 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:13,400 Speaker 1: think it does. I think we have to take a 222 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:18,600 Speaker 1: look at Uh, negotiating with the government is really not negotiating, right, 223 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 1: government is not a negotiator, they are a price setter. Well, 224 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:25,600 Speaker 1: certain countries are more aggressive price setters than US, and 225 00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 1: their drugs costs much less than ours. Well, I think 226 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:31,280 Speaker 1: we have to look at the whole drug system on 227 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:33,920 Speaker 1: the global basis. And the one thing I believe is 228 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:37,600 Speaker 1: that the US is in fact doing an enormous amount 229 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 1: of research for all countries in the US, and and 230 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:45,160 Speaker 1: it's fair to say I believe that the US patient 231 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:49,160 Speaker 1: population is in fact paying for the research, which is 232 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:53,080 Speaker 1: benefiting many countries who don't make the investment in pharmaceutical research. 233 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:56,160 Speaker 1: That makes no sense to it may not, but but 234 00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 1: but that's what we're doing now. The other thing I 235 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:02,560 Speaker 1: would say is that the innovations that pharmaceutical companies create 236 00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:07,520 Speaker 1: are really spectacular, and it is an extremely expensive undertaking. 237 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:11,640 Speaker 1: I've seen companies spend two three billion dollars on a 238 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:15,560 Speaker 1: drug which cures a problem but creates a bigger problem, 239 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:20,240 Speaker 1: in which case that money has just gone down into flames. 240 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:22,400 Speaker 1: And so I think one of the things that we 241 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:27,480 Speaker 1: can do is to continue to emphasize generics, which is 242 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 1: really a much lower cost way. Is the patent system 243 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 1: kind of making that more difficult. They make a slight 244 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:38,440 Speaker 1: change that's irrelevant to a molecule and suddenly they had 245 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:40,560 Speaker 1: a few more years to a patent. How how can 246 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 1: we work around that? Yeah? I think that um the 247 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 1: the the whole question of making certain that drugs move 248 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:53,280 Speaker 1: through the proprietary patent UH process for a reasonable period 249 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:55,960 Speaker 1: of time for companies to recrup their costs, and then 250 00:14:56,040 --> 00:15:00,240 Speaker 1: generics should be available. We also have situations where bugs 251 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:02,600 Speaker 1: that have been in use for quite some time have 252 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:06,080 Speaker 1: been purchased, and we've seen the prices go up dramatically 253 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:10,120 Speaker 1: three three, and I think that that's an example of 254 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:14,400 Speaker 1: something personally, I think that's inappropriate. We were talking earlier 255 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:20,280 Speaker 1: about um your transition from an entrepreneurial background to a 256 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:25,520 Speaker 1: larger corporate entity in your book Learning to Lead. How 257 00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 1: did you come about the idea of leading yourself and 258 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:34,160 Speaker 1: then others and then the organization. I'm kind of fascinated 259 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:37,040 Speaker 1: by the way you structured this well. I think it 260 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 1: starts with the recognition that leadership is a journey, and 261 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:45,440 Speaker 1: that that journey has different phases. And given my unique 262 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:51,760 Speaker 1: background as an individual who started out very meager uh circumstances, 263 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:54,040 Speaker 1: one of the first things I had to figure out 264 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:57,560 Speaker 1: how to do was to lead myself into a place 265 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:03,120 Speaker 1: where I could have a profession career and have aspirations 266 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 1: for greater opportunity. And then and then ultimately I had 267 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:11,440 Speaker 1: the opportunity to lead people. I needed to learn how 268 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:14,480 Speaker 1: to do that and then ultimately lead organizations. What I 269 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:18,640 Speaker 1: found was that after I ceased to be CEO, I 270 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:22,040 Speaker 1: got an enormous number of phone calls from other CEOs 271 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:27,600 Speaker 1: who were confronting issues of transformational change, issues of team building, 272 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 1: human capital, all of the issues I confronted as a CEO. 273 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 1: I also had a lot of phone calls from aspiring 274 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:39,440 Speaker 1: leaders who really were at that stage where they had 275 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:42,640 Speaker 1: been a very strong individual contributor but were now asked 276 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:46,760 Speaker 1: to lead a team. And then I also found lots 277 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 1: of inquiries from my peers and colleagues whose children were 278 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:53,840 Speaker 1: at that very early stage. So it really was born 279 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 1: out of both my own experience and I decided that 280 00:16:57,160 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 1: I would write the book and I would also interview 281 00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:03,800 Speaker 1: are executives who had taken journeys similar to me, and 282 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 1: so I was able to interview kenchin Alt who ran 283 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:10,480 Speaker 1: American Express, Pat Russo who she ran CEO of Lucon 284 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:16,080 Speaker 1: and then CEO of Lucon, alcoateel Ursla Burns who ran Xerox, 285 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:19,880 Speaker 1: and Ian Davis, who was the person who ran mckenzy 286 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:23,560 Speaker 1: for quite some time mckensey. Consulting their stories, my stories, 287 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:26,199 Speaker 1: their insight, and the insights many people I work with 288 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:28,399 Speaker 1: are all in the book. So I was kind of 289 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:33,000 Speaker 1: fascinated by your discussion um failure early in the book 290 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:37,199 Speaker 1: about your background in psychology and how you came to 291 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:43,520 Speaker 1: recognize attribution theory as being very helpful in a leadership 292 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:47,760 Speaker 1: role in helping to figure out why people seem to 293 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:50,919 Speaker 1: blame others when it goes wrong, but they want to 294 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:54,440 Speaker 1: take credit for themselves, not when it goes right. Not 295 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:57,280 Speaker 1: the best attributes for a leader. Tell us a little 296 00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:00,639 Speaker 1: bit about attribution theory, well, I would would say that 297 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:05,000 Speaker 1: when my initial undergraduate was psychology, I then decided to 298 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:09,240 Speaker 1: study clinical psychology at at Roosevelt University and I found 299 00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:13,200 Speaker 1: it very interesting, and I got UM and completed all 300 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 1: my coursework, and then I had to do the internship 301 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:19,720 Speaker 1: UM and I discovered that you had to work for 302 00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:22,359 Speaker 1: a year for free, and I joked that that was 303 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 1: the day I realized I was a capitalist. But the 304 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 1: benefit of that experience was exposure to social psychology and 305 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 1: attribution theory, and it helped me begin to observe how 306 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:42,760 Speaker 1: people made decisions, how people made judgments about themselves and others. 307 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:45,680 Speaker 1: And I think the simplest way to think about it 308 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:50,159 Speaker 1: is that if people like you and things go wrong, 309 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:54,640 Speaker 1: they will very well blame the failure on external events. 310 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:59,440 Speaker 1: If they don't like you and things go wrong, they 311 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 1: blame the all are on you. Now that's gross over simplification, 312 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:06,160 Speaker 1: but that's the essence of it. And what caused me 313 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:10,360 Speaker 1: to ask myself was what would people have to believe 314 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:14,240 Speaker 1: in order to make those judgments. So it always caused 315 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:18,080 Speaker 1: me not to look for motivation, which a lot of 316 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:21,720 Speaker 1: people do, but to look for logic and thinking that 317 00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:25,399 Speaker 1: makes that decision makes sense to the individual doing it. 318 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:28,879 Speaker 1: A little cognitive dissonance goes a long way. You also 319 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:32,800 Speaker 1: reference in the book um the role of just chance 320 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:38,440 Speaker 1: and luck and how people so significantly under estimate how 321 00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:42,080 Speaker 1: important just getting a little lucky every now and then is. Well, 322 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:46,240 Speaker 1: there's an expression which I learned early on with which 323 00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:47,960 Speaker 1: is you can't win if you're not in the game. 324 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:51,159 Speaker 1: And what that means is when you're in the game, 325 00:19:51,359 --> 00:19:55,360 Speaker 1: you expose yourself to more probability of luck. So if 326 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:57,760 Speaker 1: you want to be in business, you've got to get 327 00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:00,880 Speaker 1: in business. Doesn't mean you'll be successful, but if you're 328 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:05,040 Speaker 1: in business and you're constantly working and broadening your contacts, 329 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:09,120 Speaker 1: you'll make connections. Things will happen. So luck luck favors 330 00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:13,159 Speaker 1: are prepared. Lux favors those who are actually actively trying 331 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:15,960 Speaker 1: to accomplish their goals. Right, what's the old joke the 332 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:20,679 Speaker 1: harder I work, the luckier I get exactly absolutely uh interesting. 333 00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:24,119 Speaker 1: So so let's talk a little bit about ETNA before 334 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 1: we talk about UM. The rest of of the Fortune 335 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:31,919 Speaker 1: one thousand, your CEO from two thousand and six to 336 00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:34,359 Speaker 1: two thousand and eleven. You come in a few years 337 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:37,679 Speaker 1: before that, ETNA was really in a mess. It was 338 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:41,080 Speaker 1: potentially looking down the road and insolvency. It had not 339 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:43,480 Speaker 1: been well managed or well run for a long time, 340 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:47,480 Speaker 1: and you had to turn the company around. What was 341 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:51,760 Speaker 1: that experience like, Well, it was UM Really one of 342 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:55,119 Speaker 1: the most remarkable experiences that I've had. Was was really 343 00:20:55,960 --> 00:21:00,600 Speaker 1: helping that company regain its stature in the industry. And 344 00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:06,400 Speaker 1: I contributed really to the employees, the staff, their commitment, 345 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:10,520 Speaker 1: their engagement, and their desire to win. The company had 346 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:14,960 Speaker 1: been dramatically underlaid for some time under lad That's an 347 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:17,879 Speaker 1: interesting and when I joined that and I expected that 348 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:20,959 Speaker 1: I would meet a lot of incompetent people, and I 349 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:23,960 Speaker 1: was shocked and surprised and pleased at the level of 350 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:28,880 Speaker 1: competence that the organization had. But the company wasn't well organized, 351 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:33,840 Speaker 1: The company's strategy was unclear, the culture had lost its way, 352 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:38,760 Speaker 1: and so the company had to be disassembled and reassembled 353 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:43,480 Speaker 1: in order to be effective and contemporary. So so you're 354 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:47,960 Speaker 1: coming into a situation that's a little dysfunctional. How do 355 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:51,600 Speaker 1: you get buy in from the employees and the key 356 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:55,080 Speaker 1: management members when you're basically saying, Hey, everything you've been 357 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:58,719 Speaker 1: doing is wrong, let's let's start over. You know, I 358 00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:03,240 Speaker 1: am remind did of very early in my tenure there. 359 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:05,479 Speaker 1: I did a lot of town hall meetings to go 360 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:09,080 Speaker 1: out on a listening tour, and I remember explaining what 361 00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:12,400 Speaker 1: I hope to do and what I accomplish. And one 362 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:15,760 Speaker 1: woman stood up. She happened to be a physician who 363 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:19,080 Speaker 1: worked there, and she said, you seem like a very 364 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:21,840 Speaker 1: nice man. I'm sure you hope you can do all this. 365 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:27,400 Speaker 1: You're the fifth person we've seen in you know, five years, 366 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:32,159 Speaker 1: So why should we listen and engage and do what 367 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:35,399 Speaker 1: you're asking? And I paused for a minute, and I 368 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:39,040 Speaker 1: looked around the room and I said, I want everyone 369 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:41,680 Speaker 1: in his room to stand up and give that woman 370 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 1: a round of applause for asking the question that was 371 00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:48,840 Speaker 1: on everyone's mind. But only she had the courage to 372 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:53,560 Speaker 1: actually say. And we did that, and I think that 373 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:58,200 Speaker 1: was a beginning turning point and people understanding that I 374 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:02,240 Speaker 1: wanted a different kind of culture and environment. And I 375 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:05,240 Speaker 1: then went on to stress that we have to have 376 00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:09,480 Speaker 1: authentic conversations with each other. There's no question you shouldn't 377 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:11,880 Speaker 1: be able to ask me. I'm going to give you 378 00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:14,640 Speaker 1: a direct answer. You may like the answer, you may 379 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:17,159 Speaker 1: not like the answer, but I'm going to give you 380 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 1: an honest answer. So changing the culture and changing the 381 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:25,440 Speaker 1: dynamic really started with that one conversation which kind of 382 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:28,879 Speaker 1: spread across the organization that said, this is really different. 383 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:32,520 Speaker 1: I can I can imagine. And the turnaround was so 384 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:37,360 Speaker 1: successful that ETNA during your tenure gets named Fortune magazines 385 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:43,040 Speaker 1: most admired healthcare company in insurance for what three consecutive years, 386 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:46,560 Speaker 1: So that is quite the turnaround, both in how the 387 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:50,359 Speaker 1: company has perceived as well as the profitability. The company 388 00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:53,880 Speaker 1: went from losing lots of money to being a billion 389 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 1: plus profit maker. Um. How much of this was changing 390 00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:00,960 Speaker 1: the culture and how much of this was just the 391 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:05,280 Speaker 1: blocking and tackling nuts and bolts of reorganizing a company 392 00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:09,680 Speaker 1: and focusing it on its core competencies. Well, I would say, Um, 393 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:12,600 Speaker 1: I have an expression that great CEOs have their head 394 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:15,160 Speaker 1: in the clouds and feet on the ground and hid 395 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:18,840 Speaker 1: in the clouds means that you have a well tuned 396 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:22,520 Speaker 1: sense of the external reality. Spent a lot of time 397 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:25,679 Speaker 1: with customers, built a new strategy for the company, and 398 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:28,240 Speaker 1: it was the leadership team that that really helped build 399 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:32,080 Speaker 1: that strategy. Then we looked very deeply at the culture 400 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:35,080 Speaker 1: of the company and the values of the company, and 401 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:37,840 Speaker 1: we created something called the ETNA Way, And at the 402 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:41,439 Speaker 1: ETNA Way, we put the customer at the center of 403 00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:44,240 Speaker 1: everything we do. Now we did a slight twist on 404 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:47,639 Speaker 1: what people think of as customer. Customer was not simply 405 00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:51,200 Speaker 1: the person who paid the bills. The customer was whoever 406 00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:56,000 Speaker 1: you serviced, and so if it was a planned sponsor 407 00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:58,760 Speaker 1: who was buying, that was a customer. When a when 408 00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:01,600 Speaker 1: a patient called, or a member call customer service, that 409 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:04,399 Speaker 1: was the customer. If you were in human resources, the 410 00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:08,359 Speaker 1: employees were the customer. If you were in proposal preparation, 411 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:11,480 Speaker 1: the sales team was your customer. And so it created 412 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:15,919 Speaker 1: a dynamic in which we were externally focused on meeting 413 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:24,040 Speaker 1: customer expectations, and the strategy really was linked to the culture, 414 00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:27,359 Speaker 1: and we spent an enormous amount of time talking about 415 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:31,160 Speaker 1: the culture. One year, I gave over two hundred talks 416 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:35,560 Speaker 1: and presentations inside the company. I started each and every 417 00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:40,439 Speaker 1: time with the values of the company, making sure that 418 00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:44,160 Speaker 1: people understood. And my experience is that when the CEO 419 00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:47,199 Speaker 1: has said it so much they could scream, they probably 420 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:50,719 Speaker 1: have reached about a third of the people. Amazing you. 421 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:54,600 Speaker 1: You mentioned the customers you describe in the book early 422 00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:58,960 Speaker 1: in your tenure as CEO, taking the corporate jet and 423 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:03,000 Speaker 1: really flying around to visit the two hundred top customers 424 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:07,040 Speaker 1: of ETNA. What was that experience like, especially coming off 425 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:11,359 Speaker 1: a bad couple of years. How do you convince everybody, no, no, 426 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:14,560 Speaker 1: the turnaround is real and you're gonna really like what 427 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:19,080 Speaker 1: you see. Well, it was a very revealing experience. Prior 428 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:22,320 Speaker 1: to my joining, ETNA had spent twelve billion dollars on 429 00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:26,760 Speaker 1: acquiring a large number of other health health plans, but 430 00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:31,520 Speaker 1: it failed to effectively integrate those plans, either operationally from 431 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:35,480 Speaker 1: an I T perspective and from a employee culture perspective, 432 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:40,080 Speaker 1: customers were suffering as a result. Customer service was bad, 433 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:45,400 Speaker 1: claim payments were bad, information provided to patients to customers 434 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:49,320 Speaker 1: were bad. To people calling customer service So when I 435 00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:55,520 Speaker 1: visited those accounts who were Fortune one hundred companies, Fortune 436 00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:59,199 Speaker 1: to fifty companies, Fortune five companies, I got a air 437 00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:02,320 Speaker 1: full on what they expected and what they were getting. 438 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:06,320 Speaker 1: The one thing that I was able to do was 439 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:10,560 Speaker 1: to ask for time, and I asked them also about 440 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,760 Speaker 1: their most important pain points. What did they want to 441 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:18,240 Speaker 1: see in new innovations, new products, and new capabilities. And 442 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:22,159 Speaker 1: what made the difference really was a theme in the 443 00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:26,680 Speaker 1: company of back to basics and defining very explicitly what 444 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:30,640 Speaker 1: we needed to do, and getting the organization engaged so 445 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:34,920 Speaker 1: that the commitments I had made for improved service, improved responsiveness, 446 00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:39,280 Speaker 1: we're being met. And then the fact that we then 447 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:43,720 Speaker 1: simultaneously developed a strategy that represented a whole new generation 448 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:47,000 Speaker 1: of products and services. So you get all this feedback 449 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:50,679 Speaker 1: from these big customers and you promise, hey, give us 450 00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:52,960 Speaker 1: six months to a year. I promise you'll be on people. 451 00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:56,280 Speaker 1: But you see, how do you communicate the changes that 452 00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:59,399 Speaker 1: are needed to accompany the size of that Now you 453 00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:02,600 Speaker 1: have thousands and thousands of employees, How do you make 454 00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:06,320 Speaker 1: sure everybody is on the same page, and that not 455 00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:11,480 Speaker 1: just culturally, but those specific pain points you mentioned, How 456 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:15,240 Speaker 1: does that reach the rank and file employees? Well, I 457 00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:17,639 Speaker 1: think what you have to do is you really have 458 00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:21,040 Speaker 1: to be extremely visible. So I made it a goal 459 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:23,600 Speaker 1: to go to the customer service centers, to meet with 460 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,680 Speaker 1: the teams, to lay out the strategy, and to build 461 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:32,280 Speaker 1: a graphic model that define explicitly what back to basics meant. 462 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:34,600 Speaker 1: So if you were in claims, it said you're gonna 463 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:37,800 Speaker 1: pay claims accurately and timely. We're going to measure you 464 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:40,240 Speaker 1: on that, we're going to reward you on that, but 465 00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:42,920 Speaker 1: we're going to make certain you have the resources to 466 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 1: be able to do it, and we're gonna listen to 467 00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:48,719 Speaker 1: you in terms of what are the things the organization 468 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:52,160 Speaker 1: has to do to enable you to accomplish that. And 469 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:55,360 Speaker 1: we did that area by area by area, And so 470 00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:58,720 Speaker 1: while we were under enormous financial strain, we did not 471 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:02,400 Speaker 1: under invest in making certain that we got back to 472 00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:07,440 Speaker 1: delivering the basic commitment for service. You mentioned the twelve 473 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:12,880 Speaker 1: billion dollars and acquisitions that proceeded your um period of 474 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:18,360 Speaker 1: time as CEO. What were the I T challenges like too, 475 00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:21,680 Speaker 1: Because it sounds like you had a lot of technologies 476 00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:24,280 Speaker 1: of of all different sorts. They didn't seem to communicate. 477 00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:27,920 Speaker 1: You describe in here in the book and elsewhere that 478 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:30,720 Speaker 1: it's a bit of a challenge making all these disparate 479 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:34,560 Speaker 1: systems work together. How did you finally wrestle that into submission? 480 00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:37,200 Speaker 1: How did you get again a giant company like ETNA 481 00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:43,000 Speaker 1: with a modern, cutting edge UM technology infrastructure. Well, I think, uh, 482 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:46,840 Speaker 1: it was a really critical component of our success. And 483 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:49,360 Speaker 1: as you mentioned, when I joined the company, I joined 484 00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:52,640 Speaker 1: as UH shortly after that became president and the CEO 485 00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,680 Speaker 1: was Jack Row, who was a great colleague and friend. 486 00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:58,760 Speaker 1: And one of the things that we identified was we 487 00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:00,880 Speaker 1: needed a new head of i T. And there's a 488 00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:04,120 Speaker 1: story in the book where I had that epiphany. Uh. 489 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:08,080 Speaker 1: After our planning process, what we did was we actually 490 00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:13,200 Speaker 1: went out and we retained a company, retained IBM to 491 00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:18,760 Speaker 1: completely update and retool the human capital. So we asked them, 492 00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:23,680 Speaker 1: on our behalf, evaluate all of the i T staff, 493 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:27,240 Speaker 1: help us determine which ones are people who really are 494 00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:29,480 Speaker 1: contributing and can help us get to where we need to, 495 00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:34,520 Speaker 1: and then help us replace the others with the highest caliber, 496 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:38,520 Speaker 1: greatest expertise we can find. That process took a while. 497 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:43,800 Speaker 1: At the end of it, information technology digitalization, big data 498 00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:48,160 Speaker 1: analytics became a huge part of the competitive strategy that 499 00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:51,880 Speaker 1: helped the company win. We have been speaking to Ron Williams. 500 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:54,800 Speaker 1: He is the former CEO of ETNA and the author 501 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:58,640 Speaker 1: of Learning to Read. If you enjoy this conversation, we'll 502 00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:01,360 Speaker 1: be sure and stick around for the podcast extras. Will 503 00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:04,520 Speaker 1: we keep the tape rolling and continue discussing all things 504 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:10,640 Speaker 1: healthcare related. You can find that at iTunes, Overcast, SoundCloud, Stitcher, 505 00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:14,880 Speaker 1: wherever your final podcasts are found. We love your comments, 506 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:18,320 Speaker 1: feedback and suggestions right to us at m I be 507 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:21,320 Speaker 1: podcast at Bloomberg dot net. You can check out my 508 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:25,080 Speaker 1: daily column at Bloomberg dot com slash Opinion. Follow me 509 00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:28,840 Speaker 1: on Twitter at rid Holts. I'm Barry Riholts. You're listening 510 00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:37,320 Speaker 1: to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio. Welcome to the podcast, Ron, 511 00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:39,600 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for doing this. I think you 512 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:45,080 Speaker 1: are the first Fortune one hundred uh company CEO I've 513 00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:48,560 Speaker 1: had on and UM. Not only is at in the 514 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:52,640 Speaker 1: healthcare provider for my firm, UM, but I was intrigued 515 00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:55,880 Speaker 1: by your book and found it quite fascinating, and I 516 00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:58,920 Speaker 1: have to ask you, how did you come up with 517 00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:06,400 Speaker 1: the idea of putting very succinct takeaways of each chapter. 518 00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:09,960 Speaker 1: It really when I went back and because I first 519 00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:12,880 Speaker 1: went through the book on PDF, when I got the 520 00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:15,600 Speaker 1: physical copy, I started going through it and I found 521 00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:19,880 Speaker 1: it tremendously helpful to when I'm looking for something to say, Oh, 522 00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:22,880 Speaker 1: here are the chapter three takeaways. What what was the 523 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:27,880 Speaker 1: thinking process behind behind building the book that way? Well, 524 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:29,920 Speaker 1: it it goes back to one of the principles that 525 00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:34,640 Speaker 1: I've always believed is that when you're communicating, you have 526 00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:37,960 Speaker 1: an obligation to make what you know accessible to others 527 00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:40,480 Speaker 1: in a way that is easy for them to absorb. 528 00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:44,000 Speaker 1: And I think that's whether you're in a business meeting 529 00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:47,120 Speaker 1: or whether you're writing or you're doing a report, that 530 00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:49,760 Speaker 1: it's not enough to just put it in there from 531 00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:52,280 Speaker 1: your point of view. You want to make certain that 532 00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:55,520 Speaker 1: you've done the absolute best to make it accessible. And 533 00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:59,959 Speaker 1: for many people, the way the book is structured seems 534 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:02,800 Speaker 1: it to be linear. First you lead yourself, then you 535 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:05,600 Speaker 1: lead others, and you lead organizations. The one thing I've 536 00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:10,080 Speaker 1: learned in really talking about the book is that when 537 00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:14,200 Speaker 1: you are leading an organization, the single most important thing 538 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:18,160 Speaker 1: turns out to be leading yourself and So these types 539 00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:22,240 Speaker 1: of summaries at the end let anyone at whatever level 540 00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:25,640 Speaker 1: real quickly revisit some of the key lessons that can 541 00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:28,320 Speaker 1: help them be successful. And this is your first book, 542 00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:31,960 Speaker 1: how did you find the uh, the writing process? Well, 543 00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:36,320 Speaker 1: I think um, I found it challenging. I found it, 544 00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:39,520 Speaker 1: um trying to write a book in which you are 545 00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:43,360 Speaker 1: pleased with everything you say is a huge challenge, particularly 546 00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:46,520 Speaker 1: if you are a bit of a perfectionist in what 547 00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:50,720 Speaker 1: you do. I would say I am pleased with the experience. Right, 548 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:52,960 Speaker 1: So we're gonna see another book from you anyway, so 549 00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:56,360 Speaker 1: that I'll have to consider you have to talk to 550 00:33:56,400 --> 00:34:00,200 Speaker 1: the life and see absolutely absolutely, let's do that. So 551 00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:02,440 Speaker 1: there were a couple of questions we didn't get to 552 00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:07,920 Speaker 1: that I wanted to ask about, um well, and they're 553 00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:12,319 Speaker 1: both sort of political, so I'll ask it in a 554 00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:15,160 Speaker 1: a delicate way. So first, there's actually a few questions 555 00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:19,520 Speaker 1: we skipped. First, we were talking about Obamacare, UM, which 556 00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:24,160 Speaker 1: ended up providing healthcare for thirty five million low income people. 557 00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:28,040 Speaker 1: How did that impact your business and out? And then 558 00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:31,600 Speaker 1: was this a positive for the insurance business? Was a negative? 559 00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:34,399 Speaker 1: Wasn't mixed? What what was the impact when you're running 560 00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,960 Speaker 1: a giant healthcare company. Well, I would say that UM. 561 00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:41,080 Speaker 1: As the legislation was being prepared, and there was, I 562 00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:44,080 Speaker 1: was very actively involved in it, and actually the President 563 00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:46,440 Speaker 1: was kind enough to send me a personally signed copy 564 00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:50,120 Speaker 1: of the bills. We still have ABIT on my wall 565 00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:54,200 Speaker 1: as And like all legislation, it's imperfect. I think in 566 00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:58,840 Speaker 1: terms of the industry, Uh, it's a mixed record. UM. 567 00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:04,400 Speaker 1: The many parts of the of the legislation, I'd say 568 00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:09,799 Speaker 1: UM create financial challenges for companies. But I think in 569 00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:12,719 Speaker 1: terms of the overall good for society, I think it's 570 00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:15,400 Speaker 1: a real plus. And it was supposed to be a 571 00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:19,840 Speaker 1: work in progress, but once UM President Obama left office, 572 00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:23,760 Speaker 1: works seem to have stopped on. It is a bipartisan 573 00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:29,160 Speaker 1: healthcare bill even possible, despite how important it is, you know. 574 00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:32,960 Speaker 1: I one of my regrets is that we couldn't get 575 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:37,520 Speaker 1: the initial legislation to be bipartisan because having it passed 576 00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:41,560 Speaker 1: by one party made it a bit of a grudge 577 00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:45,239 Speaker 1: match from each side of the perspective. And I think 578 00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:47,520 Speaker 1: it does make it hard. And I think if we 579 00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:50,920 Speaker 1: could get the kind of leadership I would like to see, 580 00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:56,480 Speaker 1: we would come up with bipartisan fixes, no one side 581 00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:59,520 Speaker 1: would win everything they wanted. But I just think as 582 00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:03,719 Speaker 1: a country three we are better off with bipartisan solutions 583 00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:06,520 Speaker 1: than we are with single party solutions. And then the 584 00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:09,640 Speaker 1: other question I didn't get to um, but I think 585 00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:13,200 Speaker 1: it's important to to discuss. When you were running at 586 00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:16,600 Speaker 1: now you were one of the few African American CEOs 587 00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:20,319 Speaker 1: in the SMP five hundred. Are we doing enough to 588 00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:25,640 Speaker 1: improve diversity at the c suite? And are we doing 589 00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:29,440 Speaker 1: enough to make sure the pool of all all employees 590 00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:33,040 Speaker 1: are are given a fair shake, regardless of their background, 591 00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:36,239 Speaker 1: whatever it might be. Well, I think there is uh 592 00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:38,799 Speaker 1: a lot of work to be done. I think we're 593 00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:43,160 Speaker 1: doing better in terms of advancing women and making certain 594 00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:46,560 Speaker 1: that we're equalizing on a gender basis, and I think 595 00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:48,799 Speaker 1: that is a real plus. Now we're nowhere near where 596 00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:51,560 Speaker 1: we need to be, but given where we were, we've 597 00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:54,040 Speaker 1: made a lot of progress. I think in terms of 598 00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:59,400 Speaker 1: other minorities, whether it's Hispanics, African Americans, Asians, whatever, I 599 00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:01,520 Speaker 1: think we still have a lot of work to do. 600 00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:07,800 Speaker 1: Most companies have one or two in the executive suite, 601 00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:11,040 Speaker 1: and if you look at the next levels in the organization. 602 00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:16,040 Speaker 1: Often it's pretty thin, and I believe that in order 603 00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:19,120 Speaker 1: to win a you have to be reflective of your 604 00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:21,920 Speaker 1: customer base because you'll make better decisions to serve that 605 00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:25,400 Speaker 1: customer base. And two, there's an enormous amount of talent 606 00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:29,000 Speaker 1: that we aren't tapping if we're not doing a better job. 607 00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:32,360 Speaker 1: The companies that I work with are all highly focused 608 00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:35,640 Speaker 1: on the issue, and what they find is when they 609 00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:40,800 Speaker 1: broaden the candidates slate to reflect candidates from the full spectrum, 610 00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:43,839 Speaker 1: and they pick the best person. Often they end up 611 00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:48,800 Speaker 1: picking a woman, They may pick a person of color, 612 00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:51,640 Speaker 1: or they may pick someone else. The object isn't to 613 00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:56,560 Speaker 1: force a solution. The object is to broaden the field, 614 00:37:56,960 --> 00:38:00,600 Speaker 1: and companies need to invest much more earlier in the toilet, 615 00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:04,319 Speaker 1: in the talent pipeline to make certain that people are 616 00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:07,520 Speaker 1: coming into the company and moving through the assignments and 617 00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:10,719 Speaker 1: producing great results. You know, I work in finance and 618 00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:17,920 Speaker 1: it is a notorious um lack of diversity sort of industry. 619 00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:22,839 Speaker 1: It's gotten much better, but your point about the pipeline 620 00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:25,719 Speaker 1: is well taken. You can't hire somebody at a C 621 00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:29,280 Speaker 1: suite level if there aren't a lot of people working 622 00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:32,600 Speaker 1: at at different stages below. I think I think Wall 623 00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:36,080 Speaker 1: Street has improved in many ways, but like the rest 624 00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:37,680 Speaker 1: of the country, it still has a lot of work 625 00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:40,800 Speaker 1: to do. So so let's jump to my favorite questions. 626 00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:43,560 Speaker 1: These are the ones we ask all of our guests 627 00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:46,880 Speaker 1: and and they're the ones that I think, UM people 628 00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:50,120 Speaker 1: are are most excited about. Let's uh, let's jump right 629 00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:52,359 Speaker 1: into it. You mentioned you worked in in the car wash. 630 00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:55,480 Speaker 1: What was the first car you ever owned? You're making model. 631 00:38:56,160 --> 00:39:01,480 Speaker 1: The first car I own was a night teen sixty 632 00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:09,880 Speaker 1: eight Chevrolet, and um it was. It had no air conditioning, 633 00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:14,120 Speaker 1: which was not good, and it was a horrible green 634 00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:18,800 Speaker 1: but it was the cheapest car on the lot, right, well, Chevallet, 635 00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:21,319 Speaker 1: what what was it? A Nova? And Pala, It was 636 00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:24,320 Speaker 1: a Nova, okay, which is when you said cheapest on 637 00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:29,160 Speaker 1: a lot. Now, in later years those Nova's became muscle cars. 638 00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:32,279 Speaker 1: You could get those with big, fat tires and a 639 00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:34,760 Speaker 1: lot of horsepower. No, I think this was the smallest 640 00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:38,759 Speaker 1: engine they had. Um, So, what's the most important thing 641 00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:45,680 Speaker 1: we don't know about? Ron Williams? You know, I would say, um? Probably, Well, 642 00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:49,920 Speaker 1: the most important is um makes it a difficult question? 643 00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:52,040 Speaker 1: Probably one of the things you probably don't know. Is 644 00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:55,439 Speaker 1: I'm actually a movie buff. I'm I'm a cinema fan, yes, 645 00:39:55,840 --> 00:40:00,279 Speaker 1: and I enjoy actually own movies. And I actually am 646 00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:05,600 Speaker 1: now building a collection of African American UH movies that 647 00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:07,919 Speaker 1: were made in the twenties, thirties and forties, which many 648 00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:10,759 Speaker 1: people don't know about. Really, I'm a film buff. I 649 00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:13,120 Speaker 1: had no idea, what what are some of the movies 650 00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:15,719 Speaker 1: we might have heard of from that era? Well, you 651 00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:18,319 Speaker 1: probably UH wouldn't have heard of many of them. They 652 00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:21,799 Speaker 1: were a lot of them were Westerns that had all 653 00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:25,760 Speaker 1: black cast. Uh, and we're very similar to the westerns 654 00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:28,920 Speaker 1: that were made in john Ford type of john Ford type, 655 00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:32,640 Speaker 1: you know, budgets weren't as big, themes were the same. 656 00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:36,960 Speaker 1: So I would say, uh, cinema is an area of interest. 657 00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:40,279 Speaker 1: So so out of curiosity, who was funding those Was 658 00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:43,040 Speaker 1: this through the studios? Was this in the that they 659 00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:46,880 Speaker 1: were independent films, that that a company carved out the 660 00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:50,879 Speaker 1: segment and recognized there was a business opportunity and UH 661 00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:53,319 Speaker 1: put together cast and you see a lot of the 662 00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:57,000 Speaker 1: same people participating in in the movies. And UH. One 663 00:40:57,040 --> 00:41:00,800 Speaker 1: of the UH gifts that I I I got recently 664 00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:03,400 Speaker 1: was a poster from one of those original movies that 665 00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:07,359 Speaker 1: hangs in my home. Quite interesting. So who were your 666 00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:10,640 Speaker 1: early mentors who helped shape your career? You know, I 667 00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:16,680 Speaker 1: had clearly my parents were were instrumental. I had a 668 00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:20,399 Speaker 1: lot of professors in school who in Pickleyan College and 669 00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:26,239 Speaker 1: in high school it was very challenging. They had just 670 00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:29,600 Speaker 1: begun to desegregate Chicago, and I went to a school 671 00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:32,680 Speaker 1: where we were the really really truly minority, and there 672 00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:35,080 Speaker 1: was no one ever talked to me about going to college. 673 00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:38,479 Speaker 1: All the college conversations were held with other students. You 674 00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:40,800 Speaker 1: you mentioned that in the book that was like, yeah, okay, 675 00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:43,360 Speaker 1: when you're done, back to the car wash? Was you 676 00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:47,680 Speaker 1: with you? Was the attitude exactly? Exactly and so um. 677 00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:50,440 Speaker 1: But in college I met really great fact with that 678 00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:53,880 Speaker 1: great experience at Roosevelt, great experience at M I T. 679 00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:57,480 Speaker 1: And then I've worked for some really great executives Lyn 680 00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:01,799 Speaker 1: Shaffer it Uh, blue Cross I would give high marks too, uh. 681 00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:04,400 Speaker 1: And then Jack Roll was just a great, great colleague, 682 00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:07,160 Speaker 1: great partner, and I've the other thing I would stress 683 00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:10,200 Speaker 1: is I learned a lot from everyone. You know, you 684 00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:12,160 Speaker 1: don't have to be a professional. You don't have to 685 00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:15,640 Speaker 1: be a CEO. Every person you meet you can learn 686 00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:19,920 Speaker 1: something from you mentioned. So this is everybody's favorite question. 687 00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:22,120 Speaker 1: What are some of your favorite books? And I have 688 00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:25,160 Speaker 1: to mention that in the your book you reference you're 689 00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:27,759 Speaker 1: a sci fi fan. So, so tell us some of 690 00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:31,720 Speaker 1: your favorite books, be they fiction, non fiction, science fiction, 691 00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:34,799 Speaker 1: or otherwise. Well, you know, I I read a lot 692 00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:38,759 Speaker 1: of biographies, you know, Uh, books of the books on 693 00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:44,200 Speaker 1: Lincoln that uh history which author most recently, Delores Kerwin? 694 00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:48,560 Speaker 1: I like her books? Um, I it's sci fi. Actually, 695 00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:53,640 Speaker 1: Isaac Asimanoff was a great UH love his whole collection. Uh. 696 00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:55,520 Speaker 1: One of the ones I read very early, which I 697 00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:58,520 Speaker 1: was fascinated with, was a Foundation trilogy, which is a 698 00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:04,040 Speaker 1: whole series on both combinations psychology and science fiction. Uh. 699 00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:07,200 Speaker 1: And then I read, um a lot of Jim Collins 700 00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:10,439 Speaker 1: in the business Um. Very early. I focused a lot 701 00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:14,960 Speaker 1: on management book Strucker read everything he ever wrote, UM, 702 00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:20,799 Speaker 1: and UH a lot on leadership. Quite interesting. Uh. Tell 703 00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:23,240 Speaker 1: us about a time you failed and what you learned 704 00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:28,600 Speaker 1: from the experience. Well, I I my first business failed miserably, UM. 705 00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:32,279 Speaker 1: And what I learned there is that I was a 706 00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:35,760 Speaker 1: great salesman, but I knew absolutely nothing about running a business, 707 00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:40,080 Speaker 1: and that prompted me to go seek what I'll call 708 00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:44,799 Speaker 1: was a business apprenticeship and where you could learn, And 709 00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:47,879 Speaker 1: that's when I joined Control Data and that took me 710 00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:51,960 Speaker 1: from understanding how you sell things to actually learning how 711 00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:55,440 Speaker 1: you actually run a business and what do you do 712 00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:58,560 Speaker 1: outside of the office for fun? You mentioned film? What film? 713 00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:02,600 Speaker 1: And Um? I of jazz? Uh? I visit New York 714 00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:05,839 Speaker 1: and in great enjoy all the great jazz clubs here. 715 00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:10,520 Speaker 1: Really tell us somebody you saw recently who you enjoying? Well, 716 00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:14,839 Speaker 1: I would say recently I saw Herbie Hancock was just 717 00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:19,239 Speaker 1: great chick Korea. Um, I'm kind of a sixties, seventies, 718 00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:23,800 Speaker 1: eighties jazz fan for obvious reasons. Well, fifties and sixties 719 00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:26,920 Speaker 1: for sure. Um. Have you followed any of the Herbie 720 00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:30,520 Speaker 1: Hancock albums where he takes like a pop artist and 721 00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:33,919 Speaker 1: reworks one of their their albums? He I The last 722 00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:35,760 Speaker 1: one I think I saw of his was Joni Mitchell. 723 00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:38,520 Speaker 1: They're really quite actually have not heard that one out. 724 00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:42,520 Speaker 1: He does some some really interesting, uh really interesting work, 725 00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:45,920 Speaker 1: very good. Um. Oh, so what are you most excited 726 00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:50,359 Speaker 1: about within the healthcare industry today? What? What changes are 727 00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:52,960 Speaker 1: teat up that you think really are going to be impactful. Well, 728 00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:56,400 Speaker 1: the changes that I'm most excited about center on a 729 00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:59,200 Speaker 1: couple of the companies I'm involved with, one called agilean 730 00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:02,680 Speaker 1: another one called have a Health. Agilan is a company 731 00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:07,279 Speaker 1: that partners with primary care physicians who are interested in 732 00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:11,840 Speaker 1: serving the Medicare advantage population. And what Agilan does is 733 00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:17,759 Speaker 1: it brings a technical platform to support the physicians in 734 00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:22,840 Speaker 1: terms of data, analytics, the clinical indicators, and it also 735 00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:27,359 Speaker 1: then goes out and negotiates with health plans directly to 736 00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:31,400 Speaker 1: shift those physicians from being paid on activity to receiving 737 00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:35,000 Speaker 1: a capitated amount to take care of those patients. It's 738 00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:37,360 Speaker 1: about a billion dollar company. We have about a hundred 739 00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:41,719 Speaker 1: thousand Medicare Advantage members and we handle the business. The 740 00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:45,040 Speaker 1: doctors handled the medicine, and we give them the data, 741 00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:48,719 Speaker 1: the analytics, the decisions support to really look at their 742 00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:52,320 Speaker 1: population and figure out how do we make certain every 743 00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:56,240 Speaker 1: person is coming in and getting assessed and and getting 744 00:45:56,280 --> 00:45:59,440 Speaker 1: the right preventive care throughout the year. And so it's 745 00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:02,279 Speaker 1: really been a great partnership and it's growing about thirty 746 00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:05,640 Speaker 1: a year. We're very excited about it. That's that's quite interesting. 747 00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:09,319 Speaker 1: So if a millennial came to you and said they 748 00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:12,959 Speaker 1: were interested in a career in healthcare, UH, what sort 749 00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:15,160 Speaker 1: of advice might you give them? You know, I would 750 00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:21,200 Speaker 1: give them the the ad advice to look at emerging companies, UH, 751 00:46:21,239 --> 00:46:25,759 Speaker 1: that are finding new solutions. Some are empowering consumers and 752 00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:29,800 Speaker 1: supporting consumer engagement. Some are shifting care from the hospital 753 00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:33,040 Speaker 1: setting into the outpatient setting. I would say, look for 754 00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:37,160 Speaker 1: companies that are inventing the future. There are many of them. 755 00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:40,200 Speaker 1: Some are backed by hospital systems, some are private equity, 756 00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:43,120 Speaker 1: some are venture But I would look into that space. 757 00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:47,239 Speaker 1: And our final question, what is it that you know 758 00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:52,200 Speaker 1: about leadership and running a company today that you wish 759 00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:55,040 Speaker 1: you knew twenty years ago when you were first moving 760 00:46:55,120 --> 00:47:00,839 Speaker 1: up the corporate ladder. Listen. That's the answer is when 761 00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:05,480 Speaker 1: you when you're starting out, the mixture of talking to 762 00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:08,839 Speaker 1: listening is not quite right for me at least, and 763 00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:11,240 Speaker 1: I think one of the most important things is really 764 00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:14,600 Speaker 1: listening to what people are telling you, being in the moment, 765 00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:19,040 Speaker 1: absorbing it, digesting it, and figuring out how does it 766 00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:23,640 Speaker 1: impact your customers, how does it impact what what you're doing. 767 00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:26,960 Speaker 1: I'll give you just a quick example which I learned. 768 00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:31,360 Speaker 1: I learned more about what we should be investing in 769 00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:35,440 Speaker 1: by listening to our front line customer service people than 770 00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:38,520 Speaker 1: all the strategists in the world. Because when you sit 771 00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:42,240 Speaker 1: down with someone who's on the phone interacting with the customer, 772 00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:45,279 Speaker 1: you're telling them to give that customer the best experience 773 00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:48,040 Speaker 1: they've had in the best service. And yet they don't 774 00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:50,440 Speaker 1: have the tools, they don't have the capabilities, the systems 775 00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:53,400 Speaker 1: get in the way. When you really listen to them, 776 00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:57,520 Speaker 1: it changes your priorities and you focus on giving them 777 00:47:57,560 --> 00:48:01,160 Speaker 1: the capability to create a real service experience. And I 778 00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:03,520 Speaker 1: think what we see great companies are doing that using 779 00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:07,880 Speaker 1: now data algorithms and analysis quite quite interesting. We have 780 00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:10,680 Speaker 1: been speaking to Ron Williams. He is the former CEO 781 00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:13,720 Speaker 1: and chairman of ETNA and author of a new book, 782 00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:18,279 Speaker 1: Learning to Lead. If you enjoy this conversation, we'll be 783 00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:19,919 Speaker 1: sure and look up an Inch for Down an Inch 784 00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:23,800 Speaker 1: on Apple iTunes or any of the other places where 785 00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:27,640 Speaker 1: these podcasts are found, and you could see the rest 786 00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:30,520 Speaker 1: of the two hundred and fifty or so such interviews 787 00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:34,239 Speaker 1: that we've done over the past five years. We love 788 00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:37,120 Speaker 1: you comments, feedback, and suggestions. You can write to us 789 00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:40,320 Speaker 1: at m IB podcast at Bloomberg dot net, go to 790 00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:43,680 Speaker 1: iTunes and give us a review. Be sure and check 791 00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:47,560 Speaker 1: out my daily column at Bloomberg dot com. UM. I 792 00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:49,919 Speaker 1: would be remiss if I did not thank the crack 793 00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:54,760 Speaker 1: staff that helps put together this conversation each week. Michael 794 00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:58,920 Speaker 1: Boyle is our booker Utica val Bron. Michael bat Nick 795 00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:02,200 Speaker 1: is my head of research arch. I'm Barry Results. You've 796 00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:05,320 Speaker 1: been listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio