Speaker 1: Of the Law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies. These episodes are based on.
Speaker 3: These are our stories, done done.
Speaker 2: Hello, welcome to That's Messed Up. I am one of
Speaker 2: your hosts, Lieza Traeger and I'm Kara Klank. This is
Speaker 2: an SVU podcast where we talk about Law and Order SVU.
Speaker 2: We talk about the true crime the episode was based on,
Speaker 2: and then we interview a person from the show and Wow,
Speaker 2: today a huge one, A huge one. You guys are
Speaker 2: going to have to listen to some of you don't
Speaker 2: get spoiled and want to just wait till the end,
Speaker 2: but you're gonna have to listen to like an hour
Speaker 2: and a half of recapping and crime before you get
Speaker 2: to the big one, which is.
Speaker 1: Our guest today. But now we do a little check
Speaker 1: in chat.
Speaker 4: It's huge, huge. Our podcast is so cool.
Speaker 2: I don't know what Last week we were chatting about
Speaker 2: resolutions and we didn't think of one. But now as
Speaker 2: I grip my cell phone, my goal was I'll say
Speaker 2: it right now, because it's before the holiday.
Speaker 4: Break manifest manifest.
Speaker 2: I want to take Instagram off my phone all of
Speaker 2: Christmas break.
Speaker 4: Wow.
Speaker 2: I want to read a book. I want to hang
Speaker 2: out with my family. I want to be creative, write
Speaker 2: new jokes, work on sets. Maybe I'll write a movie.
Speaker 2: I waste eight hours a day on my phone minimum.
Speaker 2: I wish I wasn't exaggerating. It's like truly, because I
Speaker 2: remember watching Ingrid Goes West being like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: what a looney bin. Like I can't believe her character
Speaker 2: can't even be on a toilet or brush her teeth
Speaker 2: without her phone.
Speaker 4: And I'm on my phone all the time.
Speaker 2: I can't stop, and I don't want to completely shut
Speaker 2: it off forever and ever.
Speaker 4: I don't have anything to prove.
Speaker 2: And I love Instagram, but we'll see next week, We'll
Speaker 2: catch up. But my dues while I'm home in Skochie,
Speaker 2: maybe even in New York.
Speaker 4: I want to get the fun go off my phone. Yeah,
Speaker 4: of it. I wish I could also do like a.
Speaker 1: I don't know I could control the screen time controls
Speaker 1: that like tell me to get off or whatever, but
Speaker 1: I just I don't know.
Speaker 4: I'm on and off.
Speaker 1: But I do wish the time I spent scrolling, like
Speaker 1: at night, even if it's ten minutes before bad that
Speaker 1: I was reading a book instead.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I should just do that.
Speaker 2: So I think that's like maybe a real So we'll
Speaker 2: see if I accomplish that on Christmas when we meet
Speaker 2: up and around New Year's and then if not, I
Speaker 2: hope I just work on my phone stuff this year.
Speaker 2: I think I forgot that that is ruining my life.
Speaker 2: So yeah, did you think I might have said weed,
Speaker 2: I'm never stopping.
Speaker 4: I don't know what anyone says.
Speaker 1: But it also does provide us, like you have such
Speaker 1: a wealth of knowledge of random crap from the internet
Speaker 1: that does provide us a lot of the fodder for
Speaker 1: our intros on our podcast.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, because my good friend Frek, she was just like, girl,
Speaker 2: you don't need to make declarations, Like even if you
Speaker 2: take Instagram off your phone for two hours, that's probably
Speaker 2: more time and you ever stay off of it. And
Speaker 2: so it is a thing where like, I'm such an
Speaker 2: extreme person and that's why I flop when I try
Speaker 2: to make changes in my life because I'm all or
Speaker 2: nothing and I don't know how to just find balance.
Speaker 2: And that was a reminder where it's like, oh yeah,
Speaker 2: I could just like take it off for one night
Speaker 2: while I'm watching a movie, you know.
Speaker 4: Yeah like that. There's also like some kind of.
Speaker 1: App that my friend uses, you know her too, that
Speaker 1: is like you can just set it to these hours.
Speaker 1: I don't use any social media, and they like won't
Speaker 1: let you on these places for just like for whatever
Speaker 1: hours you set it as you know, so then you
Speaker 1: don't have to do all that to uninstalling and reinstalling,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Okay, yes, and that I also want to get on
Speaker 2: rocket money, red Rocket something like that. Not red Rocket,
Speaker 2: that's like a dog dick, I think, but I think
Speaker 2: it's Rocket Money. What's that it's I heard it. It
Speaker 2: was one of Tricksy and Katya's many ads on their podcast.
Speaker 2: It basically, well, here two organize this. You don't need this.
Speaker 2: It shows you all the subscriptions you have. Oh yes,
Speaker 2: I hear them talking about that. Yeah, ye, and that
Speaker 2: because I know I have some I know I've signed
Speaker 2: up for some stuff that's out there, and it kind
Speaker 2: of just helps you right away delete everything and like
Speaker 2: get your money sorted. Yeah, and so maybe that's a
Speaker 2: goal for me as well. But yeah, it's still it's
Speaker 2: the tenth though.
Speaker 1: Like yeah, It's okay, everybody, Just yeah. This episode is
Speaker 1: wide releasing on the tenth, which means that in two
Speaker 1: days we will be in beautiful Indianapolis at Helium, so
Speaker 1: come see us. Tickets are at That's messed Up live
Speaker 1: dot com. Also you can get tickets for our Northeast
Speaker 1: dates at the end of the month, which are Philly
Speaker 1: on the nineteenth, New York on the twentieth, Boston on
Speaker 1: the twenty first, and Hartford on the twenty second, and
Speaker 1: then also Vancouver in February for the just for Last
Speaker 1: festival that's in Vancouver.
Speaker 4: So yep.
Speaker 1: Any of our tickets will always be at That's messed
Speaker 1: Up live dot com. And we'd love to see you guys.
Speaker 1: Our live shows are really fucking fun, and you guys
Speaker 1: are half of what makes that fun.
Speaker 4: And I would say we're the other half and the
Speaker 4: not shows on your table or the third half.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the the nachos are the fifth character INSECX
Speaker 1: and the City.
Speaker 2: And hopefully by next episode, Caara has watched White Lotus.
Speaker 4: I will. That's my fucking resolution.
Speaker 1: If I don't watch White Lotus by the time like
Speaker 1: we record our next episode, I'm gonna I don't know
Speaker 1: what I'm gonna do.
Speaker 4: It's making me crazy.
Speaker 2: Oh you know what, we haven't talked about that. I
Speaker 2: would love to hear about picking up the Christmas tree
Speaker 2: with the kids. I mean, we'll have to like catch
Speaker 2: up on what happened over the holidays later. But yeah,
Speaker 2: how was picking up the tree? How was going to
Speaker 2: the gardens for the lighting?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 4: How is that?
Speaker 1: It was so cute, Like we had a cute little day.
Speaker 1: We went and picked out a tree. We get a
Speaker 1: real tree because I love a real tree. I love
Speaker 1: the movie It's makes my house smell. And Rosie picked
Speaker 1: out one that was crazy, and I go, okay, we'll
Speaker 1: get that one. And then we got a different one.
Speaker 1: And because you know, she can't tell once it's strapped
Speaker 1: to the top of the car, what was crazy about it?
Speaker 1: All the branches were super floppy. It was like a
Speaker 1: weird green color. I was like, of course you want
Speaker 1: this one. You're so like the off the wall. So
Speaker 1: like I just was like, yeah, sure, well that one,
Speaker 1: and then that's not the one we got. But then
Speaker 1: she actually this was the first year, she's three and
Speaker 1: a half. This is the first year she really like
Speaker 1: helped me string the lights hung ornaments herself and Oscar,
Speaker 1: I will say, was psychotic the first day, knocking everything
Speaker 1: off the tree. And now he's really like we go,
Speaker 1: no tree, and he's really stopped. He's really holding himself back,
Speaker 1: and I really appreciate that. I'm like obsessed with Oscar
Speaker 1: right now. I love that Oscar as a cat. Yeah
Speaker 1: he is, He's a full cat. I'm really obsessed with
Speaker 1: him right now. He's talking so much, he's repeating so
Speaker 1: many things. He's so smiley, he runs around. He can
Speaker 1: like really communicate with us right now, and he's like
Speaker 1: just melting my little heart every day. But we took
Speaker 1: them to the lights. Discancer Gardens is this place in
Speaker 1: LA that has like botanical gardens kind of and they
Speaker 1: do this huge like light display thing. It's at night.
Speaker 1: It's called Enchanted. It's very beautiful, and we took them.
Speaker 1: A lot of my friends go and just like take
Speaker 1: mushrooms and walk around. It's like really cool to go
Speaker 1: without kids too. But then we take kids at five
Speaker 1: point thirty and you can get a drink and walk
Speaker 1: around with a glass of wine or like they have
Speaker 1: these like spiced mules.
Speaker 4: Talks.
Speaker 2: Still have not brought me there. Once you both have
Speaker 2: like a yearly membership, and not once have I been
Speaker 2: brought to the gardens.
Speaker 1: I'll take you, but you gotta come to the nighttime
Speaker 1: stuff is fun. The daytime. It's like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: what are you gonna like, come look at turtles with
Speaker 1: us and our kids. Maybe you want to You're wrocome
Speaker 1: many time.
Speaker 2: I do love turtles, but I know I want to
Speaker 2: do the nighttime win Enchanted.
Speaker 1: Yes, okay, next year, you're coming to Enchanted with us. Okay,
Speaker 1: But I thought Oscar would just say in his seat
Speaker 1: he was obsessed. He was because there's all this stuff
Speaker 1: where you can like step on lights and they change colors,
Speaker 1: and he was going fucking nuts. I swear to God,
Speaker 1: that place is miles wide. He walked the entire thing himself,
Speaker 1: like pumped. He went into a huge group of elderly
Speaker 1: people and went hi, and they all started laughing, and
Speaker 1: that scared him and so he started crying. It was
Speaker 1: like a really funny day, but you know, just fun
Speaker 1: little Christmas things with my kids. And now that this
Speaker 1: is right before Christmas, you know, guys know we're on
Speaker 1: the time machine, as we always are. This is right
Speaker 1: before Christmas, and now I'm finally gonna next week to
Speaker 1: like figure out, you know what Santa's bringing my children,
Speaker 1: and we'll see.
Speaker 4: Rosie wants a gun that shoots toys.
Speaker 1: Does anyone know what that means? I think it's a
Speaker 1: NERF gun, but I can't be sure. Maybe just get
Speaker 1: her a T shirt cannon or something. No, like, maybe
Speaker 1: just get her a T shirt cannon, a T shirt
Speaker 1: cannon for kids.
Speaker 4: I can't, Well, because you're not into guns. You're not
Speaker 4: into guns, So I'm trying to, like exactly, I'm trying to, like,
Speaker 4: maybe a cannon.
Speaker 2: She also doesn't need to get exactly what she asks for,
Speaker 2: exactly exactly.
Speaker 1: She's asking for a lot of wild stuff, and she
Speaker 1: says Santa can make anything. She did yell at me
Speaker 1: because I said, oh, I hope Santa can find that,
Speaker 1: and she goes Santa makes all the stuff, like what
Speaker 1: are you talking about? Like, I love she talks to
Speaker 1: me like I'm an idiot all the time, and it's
Speaker 1: really funny. I bet it'll be funny for approximately six
Speaker 1: more months and that he'lp you like stop it, but yeah,
Speaker 1: what else is well?
Speaker 2: You also posted this meme about however, like how people
Speaker 2: are always like, oh, you don't know how terrible it
Speaker 2: it has to have kids, But then no one ever preps.
Speaker 1: You for all the great things. Yeah, I put if
Speaker 1: that is true.
Speaker 2: Because isn't the whole thing where people are too like
Speaker 2: it's the best, it's the best, and then you have
Speaker 2: a kid and you're like, why did no one warn
Speaker 2: me about this stuff?
Speaker 4: And that's what I thought the reality was.
Speaker 2: So I was interested in that meme of like or
Speaker 2: the good things just better than you anticipated.
Speaker 1: Well, let me clarify because this is a quote from
Speaker 1: Rob Delaney. He's a famous comedian actor and he wrote
Speaker 1: a book. He's had the loss of a child in
Speaker 1: his life, and he wrote this book called A Heart
Speaker 1: That Works. He is a stand up comedian actor, very
Speaker 1: funny guy, and he's had the loss of a child
Speaker 1: but has other children as well and just talks about
Speaker 1: parenthood and stuff and I think that whole situation is life.
Speaker 4: And he posted this.
Speaker 1: Someone posted this quote from a thing that said, you know,
Speaker 1: he says whenever he meets people that are having babies,
Speaker 1: he says, or they're about to have it of their
Speaker 1: first kid, and they say, I'm nervous. He goes you've
Speaker 1: got this. I'm so happy for you. You're prepared for
Speaker 1: all the bad stuff. You know what it's like to
Speaker 1: be tired, you know what it's like to be in
Speaker 1: physical pain, you know what it's like to worry about money.
Speaker 1: What nobody prepares you for is how wonderful it can be. Like,
Speaker 1: and that's I'm misquoting it. You have to the quotes
Speaker 1: out there somewhere, But I do think that's true. I
Speaker 1: feel like it opens your heart up in a way
Speaker 1: that you just haven't felt before. But I also think
Speaker 1: that how hard it is is downplayed for a lot
Speaker 1: of people, Like because you're right too, you know you're
Speaker 1: right too. Like there's definitely times where I'm like wow,
Speaker 1: Like I just didn't realize this was going to fucking
Speaker 1: change my life so much. You honestly can't be prepared
Speaker 1: for how much it's going to change your life. But
Speaker 1: I do think that it really resonated with me, like wow,
Speaker 1: Like sometimes I just like look at them and I
Speaker 1: just love them so much, and I'm like, Wow, I
Speaker 1: just didn't know I had that in me.
Speaker 2: You know, Yeah, this is such a left turn, but
Speaker 2: I opened for Rob Delaney years and years and years
Speaker 2: ago in Milwaukee at Turner Hall, and it was like
Speaker 2: a really exciting thing. I drove up from Chicago. It
Speaker 2: was like a big It was like it's a thousand
Speaker 2: seats or something like that or eight high. Like it
Speaker 2: was like a big deal for me. And I had
Speaker 2: opened for a few people there, but it was a
Speaker 2: really cool venue. And as I walk out, I don't
Speaker 2: know if I've told you this before, everyone was chanting
Speaker 2: Rob Rob Rob, and then they saw me and they
Speaker 2: all started to boo. And so I walked out to
Speaker 2: like a thousand people fully booing me.
Speaker 4: Shut the fuck up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what's wrong with that audience?
Speaker 4: They wanted rob baby? I don't know.
Speaker 1: I also think people are mob mentality people. And one
Speaker 1: guy fucking started booing and everybody followed like, yeah, that's
Speaker 1: so crazy, And I'm sorry that's your memory of him.
Speaker 4: I mean, no, he was great.
Speaker 2: We talked about Wicked, we talked about life. I mean,
Speaker 2: he was so nice backstage. I have no notes for
Speaker 2: him as a human backstage, and after the show, he
Speaker 2: stood in the back and met every single person at.
Speaker 1: That show and said, hey, if you don't mind, would
Speaker 1: you please boom my opener On the way out, and
Speaker 1: that's what happened.
Speaker 2: And I think I said something like, can you guys
Speaker 2: just like let me do my jokes at least, or
Speaker 2: like I said something like but in my yeah. But
Speaker 2: that's what's so great about comedy is you do get
Speaker 2: humbled yea often constantly.
Speaker 1: You can't feel too good about yourself for too long,
Speaker 1: the scales will rebalance.
Speaker 2: It's really good. No, I have nothing bad to say
Speaker 2: about him, and you know what a loss. And I'm
Speaker 2: not glad. It is positive or good that he was
Speaker 2: able to write this book and hopefully help people that
Speaker 2: need to read something like this.
Speaker 1: I think he has like a lot of beautiful insights
Speaker 1: about this and like also somebody being a comedian, like
Speaker 1: I definitely think sometimes he poststuff and I just like
Speaker 1: start crying looking at his Instagram because I can't imagine
Speaker 1: what he's gone through, like his I don't know what
Speaker 1: it is about him, but there's something about because I've
Speaker 1: I've met him and I followed all his work for
Speaker 1: a long time, and like there's just something about like
Speaker 1: I don't know if I can read the book.
Speaker 4: I truly don't know if I can read the book.
Speaker 1: I think it might be too hard for me, But
Speaker 1: that quote, I don't know, it's spoke to me for
Speaker 1: a second, and I posted it and people have been
Speaker 1: agreeing with me. Some people are and like I said it,
Speaker 1: I'm like, it's clearly a repost not only not my Instagram,
Speaker 1: but it's also someone else's quote. But yeah, what do
Speaker 1: you think? Should we get rolling into today's episode? It's
Speaker 1: such a jumbo one and it's so good and I
Speaker 1: don't want to wait any longer before you guys see
Speaker 1: our big surprise guest.
Speaker 4: At the end. Yeah, let's do it.
Speaker 2: Let's go, all right, So tonight we're doing Home Invasions,
Speaker 2: Season thirteen, Episode fourteen. Now we open up on the
Speaker 2: IANBGHD Sports Network and it's New York versus Alabama. They
Speaker 2: couldn't be at least a little realistic with this. What
Speaker 2: does E NBG even stand for? Not a sport in
Speaker 2: the name? Maybe basketball, but what's the G? Like, I
Speaker 2: don't know, college, Like I'm trying to figure out this
Speaker 2: network and the like when New York would play Alabama?
Speaker 4: Ever, like NYU doesn't do sports? What is this? What
Speaker 4: is this? Yeah? College? Yeah in Alabama? You're right, that's
Speaker 4: so weird.
Speaker 2: It's so weird and I just am so curious what
Speaker 2: the network stands for. If you guys have any ideas,
Speaker 2: please write us and let us know what e MBG
Speaker 2: could be. For college university, I can't not even one.
Speaker 4: Word is popping out because the basketball would be yeah,
Speaker 4: because like NYU, they don't have any sports. I don't know,
Speaker 4: but they're not good. I mean they're not.
Speaker 2: They would they would never be televised, right, No, maybe
Speaker 2: they would be, but like I just feel Alabama called.
Speaker 2: They don't have a professional sports team, so college is
Speaker 2: all they have. So even if they're not like a
Speaker 2: popular state or something like, people go there to play sports.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I don't think Columbia plays. Colombia has sports, but they
Speaker 1: don't play like televised I don't think anyway. No, they're
Speaker 1: probably playing the other dork IVY leagues or whatever playing.
Speaker 4: Well, that's why Northwestern is bad.
Speaker 2: I someone told me that they don't give athletic scholarships
Speaker 2: without academic grades, like you have to be super smart.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, and so that's why they are not that good.
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, because like one of the biggest morons
Speaker 1: of my school went to Columbia for football, and I
Speaker 1: was like how are you going to an ivyleague school?
Speaker 4: Like you can barely string a sentence.
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm not trying to be judgmental, but it
Speaker 2: is really hard, I think, to be an amazing academic
Speaker 2: athlete and be an athlete athlete. It's like our when
Speaker 2: do you find the time as a high school kid?
Speaker 2: So whatever, that's of course, we do a five minute
Speaker 2: intro on this sports network that's not even fucking real,
Speaker 2: so you're like, who's watching TV? It's a man drinking
Speaker 2: beer in sweatpants. Next to Tim is a young teen
Speaker 2: and she was also an episode Bombshell where her dad
Speaker 2: is in love with Rose McGowan, who's actually in love
Speaker 2: with her own twin brother.
Speaker 4: So that is who she is.
Speaker 1: Lisa's obsessed with her straight across eyebrows, and when we've
Speaker 1: talked about Bombshell and live shows, she's always like, just
Speaker 1: calls her straight across eyebrows.
Speaker 4: Her eyebrows are so of this era. We were all.
Speaker 2: Guilty of overplucking, taking out arches to just set her
Speaker 2: a six.
Speaker 4: She's just a victim of her time.
Speaker 2: Her real name is Lauren Kelly and she quit acting
Speaker 2: in twenty thirteen, so hope she's well. A mom in
Speaker 2: blonde highlights with a Rachel type haircut is in the
Speaker 2: living room too, but she's using a chair and then
Speaker 2: the ottoman as a desk Manila envelopes her out.
Speaker 4: She's working.
Speaker 2: The teen is over the game and she gets up
Speaker 2: to go study, and her dad won't let her study.
Speaker 2: A truly Homer Simpson like, you're my good luck charm,
Speaker 2: and he forces her back down onto the couch. The
Speaker 2: doorbell rings and he's stuffing his face with snacks and
Speaker 2: beer and he tells his wife, like, go open the door,
Speaker 2: and before he can even say the rest, she goes, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: two minutes left in the game.
Speaker 4: So she gets up in.
Speaker 2: Her dress shirt and belt in the home, like, babe,
Speaker 2: put on a sweatpant.
Speaker 4: What are we doing? What are we doing? I don't
Speaker 4: want to relax?
Speaker 2: Yeah uh uh oh okay, I'll even like suspend my
Speaker 2: disbelief that you're wearing denim in the house but with
Speaker 2: a belt.
Speaker 4: I just don't understand.
Speaker 2: So she grabs her wallet and walks up to the door,
Speaker 2: expecting the Chinese food they order to be there, but
Speaker 2: instead it's a man in a classic bad guy ski
Speaker 2: mask Boom boom, he shoots her twice. Fuck, So we
Speaker 2: cut straight tomorrow Rollins discussing what they're gonna eat. So
Speaker 2: they're also debating Chinese or Italian. And I think they're
Speaker 2: like on and off in this episode. You know, they're
Speaker 2: like in fucking vibes. I feel like, yeah, or too early.
Speaker 5: I don't.
Speaker 1: I think it might be too early because I don't think.
Speaker 1: I don't think that they do anything until he's fully
Speaker 1: separated from Maria. But to get an idea of the
Speaker 1: Rowlins tomorrow timeline because it feels weird. But I remember
Speaker 1: like rooting for them, Well, they're both hot.
Speaker 4: Why not.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was like, they should get together. They're cute,
Speaker 1: they get the job, like I don't know, well.
Speaker 4: And they're both annoying.
Speaker 2: We were both anti that this was like, yeah, season
Speaker 2: thirteen is rough because Maloney had just left and I
Speaker 2: don't think we were ready to usher in the new squad.
Speaker 2: Like at the end of the day, I gave it
Speaker 2: up for a few years then had to come back
Speaker 2: and because I couldn't. But this is a this is
Speaker 2: a trying time for SVU fans, and so they were
Speaker 2: both annoying. They both broke rules, they both seemed kind
Speaker 2: kind of selfish and slutty and batabang bata boom as
Speaker 2: they say, So Craigan stops them from leaving. They're not
Speaker 2: gonna have Chinese or Italian. Because there's a shooting in Yorkville.
Speaker 2: Two fatalities confirmed, so too who survived.
Speaker 4: We'll find out. Rollins is like, okay, but why.
Speaker 2: Is SVU going This is just a shooting And it's
Speaker 2: because it's the home of Joan Eckhouse, who is chief
Speaker 2: counsel for the New York Gay Rights Coalition, and Live
Speaker 2: and Finn are going to meet them on the scene.
Speaker 2: The mom is dead, liv says, messy crime scene while
Speaker 2: walking past the dead mom, and Amaro said, the delivery
Speaker 2: guys saw them and called it in. There's no force entry,
Speaker 2: no sign of robbery, nothing. So then the killer moved
Speaker 2: into the living room to the husband and daughter before
Speaker 2: they could react. The dad is killed and there's like
Speaker 2: loose popcorn stuck to the blood around him. It's like
Speaker 2: a really messy crime scene, as Olivia said. And then
Speaker 2: the daughter, fourteen Emmy, is in surgery with a bullet
Speaker 2: in her head, so we're hoping that she makes it.
Speaker 4: A tech hands tomorrow.
Speaker 2: I think like shells or bullets or something in a
Speaker 2: bag and they found them in the wall, and she goes,
Speaker 2: good luck finding down finding out what happened, so she
Speaker 2: thinks it's like a complicated situation as well. Amaro recognizes
Speaker 2: the bullet and says it's a Winchester three five seven sig.
Speaker 2: Does that mean anything to you?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 2: No, yeah, but he says it's one way to send
Speaker 2: a message.
Speaker 4: Then we see Live on the wall.
Speaker 2: Behind Live, there's spray patent on the wall queers in
Speaker 2: black with a line through it, and Benson's like, I've
Speaker 2: seen my share of hate crimes, but execution of a
Speaker 2: whole family that's a extreme. And Rollins is with her
Speaker 2: best friend, Finn, with a teen boy and his dad
Speaker 2: and they run up to the house because they heard
Speaker 2: sirens and they're because everyone okay, and it's Emmy's boyfriend.
Speaker 2: He wants to know what happened. They say, Emmy's at
Speaker 2: the hospital. He turns and goes, are you happy now, dad?
Speaker 2: It's all your fault. So Rollins and Finn look confused
Speaker 2: as the sun runs off and the dad follows his son,
Speaker 2: and we're at the credits with a nice little cliff
Speaker 2: hanger up there. So we're back at the crime scene
Speaker 2: as people are carrying out the bodies, and the boyfriend's
Speaker 2: telling Rollins and Benson how Emmy was supposed to come over.
Speaker 2: Emmy sounds like Emmy Melinda Warner like kind of hard
Speaker 2: or not.
Speaker 1: Was supposed to go study with her teen boyfriend and
Speaker 1: her his dad said Noah.
Speaker 2: So Emmy was supposed to go come over and study.
Speaker 2: The dad made him cancel. He's like, I hate that
Speaker 2: I was grounded, but my dad loves teaching me a
Speaker 2: lesson all the time.
Speaker 4: Oh, it is a lesson.
Speaker 2: And he says that Emmy comes over off in his study,
Speaker 2: but his father saw her as a distraction.
Speaker 4: And they've been together eight months.
Speaker 2: They weren't fucking because Emmy took the abstinence pledge. And
Speaker 2: it's like, well, did you, sir, did you take an
Speaker 2: abstinence pledge or did only the girls have to do that?
Speaker 2: So the dad's talking to Finn and Rollins and says
Speaker 2: he knew the dad's Sydney, but not the mom because
Speaker 2: Joan was always working on her gay thing. They asked
Speaker 2: how the dad felt about the teens dating. He says
Speaker 2: they were on the same page that the kids were
Speaker 2: way too intense, and he said a month ago there
Speaker 2: was a cop car parked outside their apartment, but he
Speaker 2: has no idea why, and like he really got no
Speaker 2: information about it. So they have no info. So we
Speaker 2: head to the gay rights coalition. They're talking to a
Speaker 2: woman in the office about how her and Joan were
Speaker 2: working towards the gay marriage bill and so they got
Speaker 2: lots of hate mail and threats, and there's a record
Speaker 2: of threats she'll gladly hand over. But Tomorrow's looking at
Speaker 2: all the frame photos in the office taking it in.
Speaker 2: When the coworker, like you know, starts off again giving
Speaker 2: more information, She's like, she was super spooked last month.
Speaker 2: They had a lot of calls, hang ups, and they
Speaker 2: felt like a car was following her. An Emmy and
Speaker 2: Benson asks if that's why the police were there a
Speaker 2: month ago, and the lady's like, no, Joan didn't tell
Speaker 2: me about that. And then Tomorrow actually pops in after
Speaker 2: taking in all the photos and is like, wait, you're
Speaker 2: the public face of it, this organization. It seems like
Speaker 2: all the press, all these photos are you. Why would
Speaker 2: they attack Joan? She starts to cry and she says
Speaker 2: it's probably to get to me, okay, self centered, and
Speaker 2: then admits that her and Joan were involved. Ah done done,
Speaker 2: and they're like, okay, who would have been jealous? And
Speaker 2: she says, no, no, no, she was the love of
Speaker 2: my life. We were just waiting for Emmy to get
Speaker 2: a little bit older, to leave Sydney and then we
Speaker 2: were gonna get married. And she cries and drops her
Speaker 2: head in her hand. And this is like such like
Speaker 2: confusing teaching. And I know, olden times, they just didn't
Speaker 2: know stuff olden times aka Season thirteen. But why do
Speaker 2: people why do parents think their kids would rather parents
Speaker 2: fight and hate each other and have no physical affection
Speaker 2: and live separate lives, Like why do parents think that's better?
Speaker 1: I know, the whole staying together for the kids thing
Speaker 1: is wild to me. Like I had a friend who
Speaker 1: I had to like counsel about this when I was
Speaker 1: like twenty eight and like had not even had kids,
Speaker 1: and he was like, I just like my wife and
Speaker 1: I don't get along, we never have sex, we hate
Speaker 1: each other basically, and they had three kids, and I
Speaker 1: was like, so, why don't you bray he's like the
Speaker 1: kids and I'm like, do you think this is a
Speaker 1: good way to show your kids what marriage looks like?
Speaker 1: I just don't get it. But I know it's more
Speaker 1: complicated than that. I know there's like finances and other
Speaker 1: things that have to be considered and living situations.
Speaker 2: But I just it's just not better. You're just setting
Speaker 2: up bad examples and then your kids are gonna stay
Speaker 2: in bad I just like, Emmy's a teen and it's
Speaker 2: I just I really don't get it. But yeah, the finances.
Speaker 2: I didn't think about the finances, but it seems like
Speaker 2: she had the money.
Speaker 5: No.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm just saying in general, when we talk about this,
Speaker 1: in general, it's not always easy to just be like, yep,
Speaker 1: let's walk out and end it. You know.
Speaker 4: I'm sure there's like more complicated things.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but when people are like, well, we just don't
Speaker 1: like each other at all and we're just staying together
Speaker 1: for the kids, and like, I don't get that, Like
Speaker 1: that seems like your whole family life is based on
Speaker 1: a charade.
Speaker 4: But well yeah, and it's just like you only have there.
Speaker 2: Kat Cohen has like a funny lyric or line in
Speaker 2: one of her shows where she goes, am I gonna
Speaker 2: spend my one like good life to live, being mad
Speaker 2: at my arm fat or something like that, where it's
Speaker 2: just like you have one life, like what are you
Speaker 2: doing wasting? But okay, at least she's getting fucked on
Speaker 2: the side by this woman. So anyways, then comes in
Speaker 2: Isaiah Whitlock. I can't believe it, and he's the guy
Speaker 2: that goes she and he is walking and talking with
Speaker 2: Rollins and Finn saying how this is going to fuck
Speaker 2: up their stats. So I'm assuming he's homicide and Finn
Speaker 2: is like, let's get it done, and he says that
Speaker 2: SVU will have the lead and they'll help it anyway
Speaker 2: they can. But when Rollin says they want to talk
Speaker 2: to Martinez and Parker, He's like, why, what do you
Speaker 2: want with them? And Finn's like, well, they get went
Speaker 2: to the eck Cart house about a month ago and
Speaker 2: we need scoop. He's like, well, those two are not
Speaker 2: in my department anymore. They were moonlighting for a bookie,
Speaker 2: so we can't have that, and we let them go.
Speaker 4: Their boxes are on the desk. They didn't even come
Speaker 4: back for it.
Speaker 2: We cut to Craigan with Benson and Tomorrow asking if
Speaker 2: there are any updates on the girl's condition. Benson says,
Speaker 2: the bullet is removed and she's in a drug induced
Speaker 2: coma right now, but they're not going to know how
Speaker 2: she is until the swelling goes down, and they're like,
Speaker 2: what about boyfriend and dad. Benson responds to Craigan that
Speaker 2: these kids seems super in love, but the dads were
Speaker 2: not for it, and they looked through the emails between
Speaker 2: the fathers to confirm those feelings. So Craigan then asks
Speaker 2: what about the coalition threatless And they're like it's all
Speaker 2: anonymous hate mail and phone calls, and Craigan's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: that's a huge jump from like you're a dumb bitch
Speaker 2: to executing a full family. Amorro says that Jones's partner
Speaker 2: did tell her that she thought someone was stalking her,
Speaker 2: so Craigan asks to like, is anyone jealous of the affair.
Speaker 2: They're like no, no, no, they were really fucking discreet. So
Speaker 2: Rollins then finally is like, maybe I found something.
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 2: There's a report responding to the eck House residence. It
Speaker 2: was a domestic employee incident where a housekeeper, Carmen Vesquez,
Speaker 2: claimed that Sydney had assaulted her and he told the
Speaker 2: officer that she had been stealing jewelry.
Speaker 4: Amarro's like, I don't think this.
Speaker 2: Housekeeper is just going to like cap everyone in the house,
Speaker 2: Like this is not I don't understand. So Finn's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: but her brothers just got out six months after doing
Speaker 2: four years for armed robbery and assault. So Finn and
Speaker 2: Rollins go back to the carts to take ca a
Speaker 2: log of valuables and see if the brother could have
Speaker 2: been tipped off by the housekeeper and like stolen stuff.
Speaker 2: And tomorrow and Benson are going to go visit the
Speaker 2: Vesquez family. And who is it? It's Orange is the
Speaker 2: New Black Star Elizabeth Rodriguez who plays how do you
Speaker 2: say this name?
Speaker 4: Alaida? I think is how you said her name in
Speaker 4: the show.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and she plays Alida Diaz who's Dya's mom and
Speaker 2: Diya's the one who gets pregnant with porn stash and
Speaker 2: ends up becoming a cold hearted bitch and yeah, but
Speaker 2: so Alida is amazing, and she has an extensive resume,
Speaker 2: and she's been working for a very long time and
Speaker 2: she's great in this episode and she's like we've been
Speaker 2: praying for her how is Emmy. She's like she was
Speaker 2: a daughter to me. I've been taking care of her
Speaker 2: since I was two months old, so you know, since
Speaker 2: she was two months old? Yeah, yeah, what did I say?
Speaker 2: Since I was two months old? An amazing baby. But
Speaker 2: they bring up her departure and she was just like, yay,
Speaker 2: I left because Emmy had school and plans and activities
Speaker 2: and I needed more money in ours. And Amara was like, babe, honey,
Speaker 2: are you sure it didn't have to do with the police,
Speaker 2: And she snaps in an instant and is pissed off.
Speaker 4: It's like, I never stole any jewelry.
Speaker 2: I would never, and Benson is being a little passive
Speaker 2: aggressive and he's like, well, nobody said that you did,
Speaker 2: and she's like, well, Sydney said I did, but he
Speaker 2: was fucking lying. Joan had a benefit and she couldn't
Speaker 2: find her earrings and she's like, I was there for
Speaker 2: fourteen years.
Speaker 4: And he gets into trouble and he blames me, and.
Speaker 2: She's like, and the cop took his side and I
Speaker 2: had to keep my mouth shut. And Benson's like, slow down,
Speaker 2: so on what kind of trouble And she's like, he
Speaker 2: pawned those fucking earrings himself. He was a gambler and
Speaker 2: owed big and sold off his autograph baseball cards already
Speaker 2: and his watch. And they're like, Joan didn't know about
Speaker 2: any of this, and she's like, you know, they lived together,
Speaker 2: but they lived apart. And Benson says, I'm sorry, but
Speaker 2: we have to ask you where were you Friday? And
Speaker 2: she said Bible study, like most people are, you know,
Speaker 2: on Friday nights.
Speaker 4: And they were like, well, what about your brother?
Speaker 2: And he actually leads the sessions and he turned his
Speaker 2: life around. He found God. And so it cuts to
Speaker 2: a little dinky church. It has nice wooden flowers but
Speaker 2: haphazard curtains. This is like this is a makeshift church,
Speaker 2: I would say. And he's leading a prayer for Emmy
Speaker 2: and he loves Emmy and he's a very aggressive, prey
Speaker 2: guy like he is. He's very Mary Cosby Salt Lake City,
Speaker 2: if you guys are followers of that, and he clocks
Speaker 2: the cops, he nods at them.
Speaker 4: He knows what's up.
Speaker 2: So he's like, let me finish the song, well, we'll
Speaker 2: talk later, and he knows why they're there, and he's
Speaker 2: glad someone's fighting for Emmy since she's an angel. He says,
Speaker 2: you know, he was on Bible study with six other
Speaker 2: members of the congregation and they can all vouch for him.
Speaker 2: And he's like a lot of them have records too, though,
Speaker 2: but we're all on.
Speaker 4: A righteous path. And this is the thing.
Speaker 2: I think mega churches are like fucking gross obviously, but
Speaker 2: this shitty church too. It's like I don't trust, Like,
Speaker 2: if God liked you, like, would you have a better church?
Speaker 2: Like what's worse a shitty church or a megachurch? Probably
Speaker 2: a mega church is worse.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because they're taking the money to like I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'm sure a shitty church is like putting the money
Speaker 1: to good use.
Speaker 4: Yeah, to the electric bill.
Speaker 2: I don't know if they have any oversight, I mean
Speaker 2: any what is it profit at the end? Yeah, I
Speaker 2: think megachurches are worse. But it's like I want a
Speaker 2: nice church, but simple design. Like I don't know Benson's life,
Speaker 2: but I just like, as a follower, i'd be like, yeah, weird.
Speaker 2: I wonder why my leader can't get it together. Okay,
Speaker 2: So Benson goes, I'm glad you're all being good. You
Speaker 2: do have to name names, and he said, anything for
Speaker 2: that girl that's my angel, and they asked when he
Speaker 2: met Emmy.
Speaker 4: He goes, meet her.
Speaker 2: I've known her since she was a baby. I taught
Speaker 2: her how to ride a bike. So they were very
Speaker 2: close with the family before the arrest. And he says,
Speaker 2: and after Emmy wrote me and would visit me, people
Speaker 2: desert you after you go away by not her, And
Speaker 2: they're like, well, did she ever tell you about her
Speaker 2: home life? And he goes, oh, the father, that man
Speaker 2: wasn't right. He'd even have that girl place bets for
Speaker 2: him and he would get wasted and send her to
Speaker 2: the bar to send bets.
Speaker 4: So they go to a bar I really love the
Speaker 4: name called Murfin Surfs Pub. That's cute.
Speaker 2: We hear an Irish accent. He says, whatever happened to
Speaker 2: the NYPD? Did all the white guys retire? And he's like, nah,
Speaker 2: I'm all for affirmative action. And Finn's like, we're here
Speaker 2: to talk about one of your former clients and he responds.
Speaker 2: He responds with a fart noise, and the caption said
Speaker 2: blowing raspberries got a saying, yeah.
Speaker 1: Like blowing raspberries is when you go like on a
Speaker 1: little kid's tummy or something. It's like giving them a raspberry,
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, it's anyway. This guy also, for anyone
Speaker 1: who's like me, a Sons of Anarchy head, he was
Speaker 1: in the gang on Sons of Anarchy.
Speaker 4: That's why he's so hot. I was like, this guy's hot.
Speaker 2: Of course, Sons of Anarchy just like booking all the hotties. Yeah,
Speaker 2: the white Lotus of the early two thousands made all
Speaker 2: the hotties. I mean, I don't know when all Star
Speaker 2: stopped talking and bragging about knowing Meghan Fahie. She probably
Speaker 2: has long forgotten about us, but I'm just like, so, Meghan,
Speaker 2: she doesn't respond when I message, what's this hotties' name?
Speaker 2: Did he play a biker? An Irish biker? Did you
Speaker 2: have an accident there?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, because like and then down the line there's
Speaker 1: like a connect with like Northern Ireland and like guns
Speaker 1: coming over from there. He has a whole storyline with that,
Speaker 1: and yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, nice, Amorro's like, my four year old knows better
Speaker 2: than that.
Speaker 4: That's not even a burn. No one cares.
Speaker 2: But anyways, and then this man starts pouring salt on
Speaker 2: his hand, like I don't know what Murph is up to,
Speaker 2: Amorro gets aggressive and is like, Emmy, she was here
Speaker 2: either placing bets or drinking underage, whichever one you want
Speaker 2: to go down for.
Speaker 4: Let's go Bubbs.
Speaker 2: So now Amorrow and Benson are sitting with him in interrogation,
Speaker 2: flipping through files like, damn, I guess serving miners alcohol
Speaker 2: is just the tip of the iceberg.
Speaker 4: He has felonious assaults.
Speaker 2: He broke a man's legs and arms, He's cracked a
Speaker 2: man's skull with a baseball bat, and then he curbs
Speaker 2: stomped a dude. But Tomorrow's like describing what a curb
Speaker 2: stomp is. And we've all seen American History Act. We
Speaker 2: don't need like how too. But he has two pages
Speaker 2: of crimes and buchanans defending him.
Speaker 4: So big bucks, big bucks, and no morals.
Speaker 2: Benson says it's dangerous owing you money, huh, And he
Speaker 2: says these are very good stories. But you know what
Speaker 2: else is good? Twilight? They say it's just for tweens.
Speaker 2: But I do love those vampires. I love that. That's
Speaker 2: like the biggest thing. Buchanan lets them know that there
Speaker 2: are no convictions, just charges.
Speaker 4: So let's go, like we're out of here.
Speaker 2: And Benson splays out the crime scene photos and he's like,
Speaker 2: there's a fourteen year old girl fighting for her life
Speaker 2: and two dead parents, so nobody is gonna wriggle out
Speaker 2: of this one. And the Irish says, that's horrible. Buchanan's like, listen,
Speaker 2: he didn't commit these crimes, none of the two pages, Like,
Speaker 2: he's not involved with everything al and even if all
Speaker 2: those crimes on the two pages were him, none of
Speaker 2: them involved a gun and every victim survived, so it's
Speaker 2: outside of like, you know, the what is it signature?
Speaker 2: And then also serve an alleged bookie no purpose. A
Speaker 2: dead man pays no debts, so they've been gotten. Good
Speaker 2: points are made. Buchanan's worth all the money. Finn is
Speaker 2: also not making waves in the case. He says all
Speaker 2: six for six in the Bible studies say they were
Speaker 2: there the whole time with Jimmy, And what about the
Speaker 2: jewels that were missing? And Rollin says they track the
Speaker 2: jewels to the pawn shop on the Lower East Side
Speaker 2: and all the tickets were in Sydney's name. Craigan's like,
Speaker 2: damn okay, hopefully Benson and tomorrow we're onto something so
Speaker 2: he turns around to leave, and walking into the precinct
Speaker 2: center desk area is Buchanan with his bookie client, and
Speaker 2: while Finn and Rollins are brainstorming about like what about
Speaker 2: the boyfriend?
Speaker 4: What about this?
Speaker 2: What about that, Rollins starts talking about a dog park,
Speaker 2: and then the bookie clocks Rollins and Rollins looks worried
Speaker 2: and panicked and he smiles at her. Finn asks what
Speaker 2: was that smile? And Rollins turns around and goes jealous,
Speaker 2: and she's holding in her panic. But the bitch was panicking.
Speaker 2: She is panicking. Yeah, So now Rollins is filling up
Speaker 2: her gas tank of her big ass truck and grabs
Speaker 2: her receipt and as she turns around, bam, giant punch
Speaker 2: into the stomach by the Irish guy. And then Officer
Speaker 2: Parker is there too, and the Irish guy looks like, wow,
Speaker 2: it looks like the two of you have something in common,
Speaker 2: meaning like bad cops, and Parker picks her up, and
Speaker 2: then the Irish punches her in the stomach again. Parker
Speaker 2: kneels down as he tells her, why are you laughing?
Speaker 2: Because you just keep calling him the Irish? It's so funny.
Speaker 2: Parker kneels down and tells her, you're in deep to
Speaker 2: the wrong guy's sweetheart. I hope you're not dumb enough
Speaker 2: to talk to your captain. And the Irish says, if
Speaker 2: you do, you won't see us coming. You'll just be gone,
Speaker 2: you understand.
Speaker 4: She nods.
Speaker 2: He calls her a good girl, and that's a trend
Speaker 2: on the internet right now.
Speaker 4: Do you know about this?
Speaker 5: No?
Speaker 2: I feel like the youth are talking about, like who
Speaker 2: they want to call them a good girl? And who
Speaker 2: would be disgusting if they said, like, you're a good girl.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's like what the internet's doing these days.
Speaker 2: So she barely can bring herself up. She breathes so
Speaker 2: hard she's in pain. Obviously, there was a commercial break
Speaker 2: on NBC. Okay, like our detective gets punched, there's a break.
Speaker 1: God, those punches are so intense too, likeugh, it's like full,
Speaker 1: doubled over and unable to breathe, like awful punches.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's like Murph working out, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean? Like, how do you get so good at punching?
Speaker 2: Finn walks behind Rollins at a bar and says, and
Speaker 2: she's like thanks for coming. She's like I got a problem,
Speaker 2: and Finn says that Murphy guy, right, like he's been
Speaker 2: a detective for decades. Rollins, You're not gonna catch one
Speaker 2: on him. She explains, back home, it was just football,
Speaker 2: pools and Cuba the derby. She likes the action, but
Speaker 2: it wasn't serious. But since she's been to New York,
Speaker 2: it's gotten out of control. And she's twenty k in
Speaker 2: and the juice every week? Is that interest?
Speaker 4: The juice? Probably the juice, okay? Or yeah?
Speaker 1: Or maybe like money to keep going, like keep I
Speaker 1: don't know, I don't know.
Speaker 2: Finn asks if he always knew that she was a cop,
Speaker 2: and she's like, no, no, no, no, she told him she
Speaker 2: was a bartender. And not only that, she like checks
Speaker 2: him out and like saw where he made the payoffs
Speaker 2: and like then followed Murphy to a social club in
Speaker 2: Hell's Kitchen and Finn knows it's a bookie joint and
Speaker 2: she dug around and the boss's name is McCourt and
Speaker 2: I guess he's a really scary guy. And she says
Speaker 2: Murphy knocked her around and threatened her, and Parker was
Speaker 2: with him, and Finn is like, they hate you, Are
Speaker 2: you okay? And she said, okay, we got we got
Speaker 2: an update.
Speaker 4: Juice.
Speaker 2: Juice in sports betting is the cut of bookie takes
Speaker 2: from every bet.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it sounds like it's probably like weekly interest
Speaker 1: or something also called the yeah, the vague.
Speaker 2: Yeah damn okay, But why do you need bookies? They
Speaker 2: have to take the bets? Oh, because they have the pot.
Speaker 2: Yeah whatever. I think it's easier. I don't think people
Speaker 2: need bookies anymore. I think you can ruin your life
Speaker 2: online really easily.
Speaker 1: Yeah more online, Yeah, yeah, you don't need to get
Speaker 1: punched by an irishman at the gas station. So but
Speaker 1: I like, also I wonder if online you can't go
Speaker 1: as far either, because like your credit card can only
Speaker 1: like will max out at a certain point, right, Like
Speaker 1: if it's all online, like in real life, you can
Speaker 1: be like okay, I can get some earrings or I
Speaker 1: can like you know whatever, then you can just fucking
Speaker 1: keep going and maybe online like curbs it a little
Speaker 1: bit more because it's all like like virtual money or
Speaker 1: credit you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was weird because when I went to the
Speaker 2: horse track, there was just like a group of men
Speaker 2: at the TVs yelling like they didn't even care about
Speaker 2: the horses, like they didn't want to see. They weren't
Speaker 2: there for like an ambiance, like let you shore the races,
Speaker 2: Like they were just inside huddled with their tickets.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they weren't like I love to watch these majestic
Speaker 1: animals race. It was like give me my money or yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm about to lose my car.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but I do love that.
Speaker 2: Finn is very protective of Rollin's, you know, He's just like,
Speaker 2: are you okay?
Speaker 4: What do we gotta do? He cares so much.
Speaker 2: And then she goes, anything else you want to know
Speaker 2: about your new partner, and she swigs her beer and
Speaker 2: Finn goes, Okay, here's the deal.
Speaker 4: We'll take the creeps off the street and we let
Speaker 4: them know who the hell we are.
Speaker 2: Then you have to you have to come clean to
Speaker 2: the captain, and then dramatic music plays. We cut to
Speaker 2: a sting operation at the booky place and Murphy is
Speaker 2: there and a lot of other whites and Parker and
Speaker 2: Tomorrow cuffs his ass and they actually went.
Speaker 4: To the academy together L O. L.
Speaker 2: Murphy tries to sneak away out the back, but Finn
Speaker 2: gets him and punches him in the gut. And goes,
Speaker 2: you know what this is for, right, and he says, sure,
Speaker 2: but tell your girlfriend. She's going to be very sorry.
Speaker 2: And Finn is like, okay, is that a threat to
Speaker 2: a detective? And he goes, Detective, that bitch is a degenerate.
Speaker 2: Your girl's sick. And he busts his face onto the
Speaker 2: bar and Murphy bleeds out.
Speaker 4: Of his mouth, and I fucking love it.
Speaker 1: This is where this is sort of like a It's
Speaker 1: like a baby curb stomp. It's like, not full teeth,
Speaker 1: it's just like a head slam onto a table.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I bet Finn went to the strip after this day
Speaker 2: to blow off some steam.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: It's also like that gift that they have, or it's
Speaker 1: not a gift, but it's like a TikTok of Olivia
Speaker 1: Benson slamming that guy's head and it's set to like
Speaker 1: it's like Haull of bat Girl, and it's just Benson
Speaker 1: over and over against smacking a guy's head.
Speaker 2: The Internet and the joy it brings me. I know
Speaker 2: there's a lot of horrible stuff, but the memes are
Speaker 2: so funny and good, and I love the ones where
Speaker 2: they do music to people falling off hot tubs. Or
Speaker 2: like a horse on a plastic slide, like I love
Speaker 2: the integration of music and accidents.
Speaker 4: Of cinematic accidents. Yeah yeah, So.
Speaker 2: Amaro calls Spin into the court's office and he's and
Speaker 2: he says, big mistake, opens the drawer to the side
Speaker 2: desk and goes, I want to end this and tomorrow
Speaker 2: was like, you're gonna bribe us. He's like, nah, I
Speaker 2: got enough, dirty cops. I actually don't need any more.
Speaker 2: But these envelopes are in a drawer and one says
Speaker 2: Crosby and that's Sydney's code name, and he's like, open it.
Speaker 2: And the night he died, his team actually made a
Speaker 2: miracle comeback, so we had a bunch of money ready
Speaker 2: for him night he died. And Finn is like, so
Speaker 2: you're mad he won, and he's like, nah, if he won,
Speaker 2: he would just lose it to me again, Sidney was
Speaker 2: a gift that kept on giving. Why would I want
Speaker 2: to kill him? Good point? So do bookies never murder?
Speaker 1: I think that at worst they would murder someone in
Speaker 1: your family like dead men pay no debts. But like
Speaker 1: what if they kill your wife, your brother?
Speaker 4: You know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Like to send a message or hurt those people, but
Speaker 1: I don't think they kill you if you.
Speaker 4: Owe the money. Damn.
Speaker 2: So now it's Rollin's and Finn in the office, and
Speaker 2: Rollins is like, damn, so these guys didn't kill them
Speaker 2: and we're back to fucking zero. But Finn is like,
Speaker 2: that doesn't change what you have to do, and she
Speaker 2: puts her hot tea down on the desk and she
Speaker 2: walks into Craigan's office ready to confess. She thanks Finn
Speaker 2: very sincerely one last time. So they both enter Craigan's
Speaker 2: office and he's just hanging up the phone. Emmy's out
Speaker 2: of a coma, so she's awake. Craigan's gonna meet Benson
Speaker 2: and tomorrow there now saved by the Koma.
Speaker 4: Girl waking up. Okay, like this is perfect.
Speaker 2: So we're now at the hospital, all the doctors filling
Speaker 2: our peeps in. The bullet went through Emmy's skull, but
Speaker 2: she's good, her brain functions intact, her vitals are coming back,
Speaker 2: and she's a tough and very lucky girl.
Speaker 4: She's chatting a nose who she.
Speaker 2: Is and the surroundings, but they don't know if she's
Speaker 2: gonna have any other memory or brain issues. Nobody has
Speaker 2: visited her besides the staff. The boyfriend's been in the
Speaker 2: waiting room the past few days, but they haven't let
Speaker 2: him in yet. No one's gone in there, so the
Speaker 2: doctor brings in the detectives. Olivia and Lamarro slowly approach
Speaker 2: Emmy like she's a gazelle and they're like a nature
Speaker 2: photographer and they're speaking in very soft tones. They fill
Speaker 2: her in that they're trying to figure out what happened
Speaker 2: last night, and she asks where her mom and dad
Speaker 2: are and Benson's like, well, okay, first, Ione wanted to
Speaker 2: ask you what was the last thing you remember? And
Speaker 2: she's like, I remember feeling angry because she couldn't go
Speaker 2: to her boyfriend Rob's house because his father said no.
Speaker 2: And she remembers watching basketball with her father, and she
Speaker 2: remembers nothing else. And again she asked where her parents are.
Speaker 2: The violins start thumping and they're dead. Okay, they're dead,
Speaker 2: she asked. She goes are the dad? Benson says, yes,
Speaker 2: I'm very sorry. Emmy's in a bandage with tubes in
Speaker 2: her nose and she's like who would do this?
Speaker 4: And h and why?
Speaker 2: And Tomorrow's like, we're trying to figure it out, and
Speaker 2: she's like, where is Rob?
Speaker 4: Please? I want Rob? I want Rob.
Speaker 2: Tomorrow actually has a question for the doctor and is like, hey, babe,
Speaker 2: why do you have her on anti virals? And she
Speaker 2: she spills the beans is this not a hip of violation,
Speaker 2: not just anti.
Speaker 1: But she says she's not gonna say something, and they
Speaker 1: say this could this could affect our investigation.
Speaker 4: And that's when she spills.
Speaker 2: Okay, but even still it's like maybe it's because she's
Speaker 2: underage and it could be abuse, but like, yeah, I
Speaker 2: was really shocked when she's spilled like this beans.
Speaker 1: Well yeah, no parents or guardian nearby, Like yeah, but
Speaker 1: I think she thought they told her it was like
Speaker 1: material to the investigation.
Speaker 4: So she's so she's spilled. Yeah yeah.
Speaker 2: So basically the surgery triggered to herpies outbreak. So they
Speaker 2: react like excuse me, what, like we all are viewers
Speaker 2: of this since she did sign this abstinence stock and
Speaker 2: the doctor's like, you know, this actually isn't that unusual
Speaker 2: for sexually active fourteen year old girls And they're like, yeah,
Speaker 2: but she said that she wasn't fucking. So they go
Speaker 2: to visit the Fisher apartment and the dad is like,
Speaker 2: my son is not fucking and does not have herpes,
Speaker 2: and Benson goes, has he been tested? And it's like no,
Speaker 2: but he had a check up, like I'm assuming the
Speaker 2: herpes would have come up. He's also fourteen. He still
Speaker 2: plays with Pokemon cards. And Benson asks, well, could emmy
Speaker 2: have had other boyfriends? And the dad's like, you have
Speaker 2: to talk to her about that. She told Rob that
Speaker 2: he was the first person she ever kissed, and Amaro
Speaker 2: pushes like, do you believe that? He's like, listen, she
Speaker 2: came on too strong, moved too fast. There's just something
Speaker 2: super needy about the girl. She was desperate and clung
Speaker 2: to my son like a barnacle, but he didn't know
Speaker 2: what her problem was. Benson looks angry. Amoro and Benson
Speaker 2: are now outside and they're like, okay, absence he mother
Speaker 2: adolescent girl left alone in the house with their drunk
Speaker 2: father virgin but as herpes, U wouldn't be the first.
Speaker 2: And then Benson goes, wouldn't be the first time we
Speaker 2: tested a corpse for STDs?
Speaker 4: Like, girl, what a job? What a job?
Speaker 2: We cut to Rollins and she has to go speak
Speaker 2: to Cragan and she starts to talk and Craigan's like,
Speaker 2: Murphy already routed you out, so shut up. I already
Speaker 2: called IAB, so he didn't have any leverage on you.
Speaker 2: They're going to interview you. Anything else I need to
Speaker 2: know about this? Did you run any plates? What did
Speaker 2: you do for him? And Rollin says no, I was
Speaker 2: just gambling. He says, good. Then you're lucky because eventually
Speaker 2: he would have and you were if you were desperate enough.
Speaker 2: You understand I really should take your gun and shield
Speaker 2: right now, and Rollins knows, but he says, I will
Speaker 2: go to bat for you against IAB if this is
Speaker 2: truly the extent of it, and she assured him it is.
Speaker 2: He says, okay, it'll probably be just like a command
Speaker 2: discipline and I'm going to take ten vacation days from you.
Speaker 2: But free time isn't your friend, is it? And he
Speaker 2: asks knowing lee, and Rollins is like, yeah, I think
Speaker 2: that's part of the problem. And he stands up and
Speaker 2: walks towards her, and he's like, listen, I get it.
Speaker 2: I've been where you are. This could really weigh on you.
Speaker 2: And he starts divulging about his drinking problems. He was like,
Speaker 2: you know first, like as soon as I was off duty,
Speaker 2: I would start pounding and then I would just have
Speaker 2: a few on the job to get through it. And
Speaker 2: I thought no one noticed, but my captain could have
Speaker 2: canned my ass, but instead he got me help. And
Speaker 2: while Rollin's is listening, she says wow and wipes away tears,
Speaker 2: and he says, you're a good detective, Amanda, and I
Speaker 2: don't want to end your career, and she says she says,
Speaker 2: I don't want that either, and he says, I'm gonna
Speaker 2: get you help, but if you screw up again, you're gone.
Speaker 2: And perfect acting, perfect crying. There's even snot action. This
Speaker 2: bitch is killing it. So then Benson and Tomorrow do
Speaker 2: a knock knock wait for a come in and bursts
Speaker 2: into the office for gossip on the case and see
Speaker 2: Amanda visibly crying and they're like, we can come back,
Speaker 2: but they're like, no, no, no, what's up. So there's a
Speaker 2: lab report the dad and daughter do have the same
Speaker 2: strain of herpes. Disappointing, of course, Craigan says, every unhappy
Speaker 2: family is unhappy in its own way.
Speaker 4: I don't know if it's time for little quotes but okay.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought it was like this seems like a
Speaker 1: little bit more than on happiness. It's full on criminality.
Speaker 1: But yeah, okay, thanks for the Instagram quote.
Speaker 2: Craigs, Rollin's, and Benson make an intense eye contact, but
Speaker 2: nothing is spoken about, and Craigan just says, find out
Speaker 2: who else knew, So they all leave the office to
Speaker 2: go back to work and solve some crimes. We're at
Speaker 2: the hospital and Emmy's still in her big ass bandage,
Speaker 2: but she's walking outside of her room with a nurse
Speaker 2: and Tomorrow Sweet. He's like, hell yeah, girl, so happy
Speaker 2: to see you on your feet, and she says she's
Speaker 2: feeling better, but like, why are you guys here? Did
Speaker 2: you find who killed my parents? Benson actually wants to
Speaker 2: chat about something else, and Benson's in a private room
Speaker 2: with Emmy and tells her they know what was going
Speaker 2: on between her and the father, and she tries to deny,
Speaker 2: and Benson's like, come on, girl, I'm a detective, but
Speaker 2: she is like no, no, like he wasn't the best dad,
Speaker 2: but I mean, and Benson stops her and is like
Speaker 2: it's okay, you don't have to cover for him. Anymore
Speaker 2: and whatever happened is not your fault, and then asks
Speaker 2: when it's started. Emmy says, last February they went skiing
Speaker 2: in Vermont and the mom left early to probably cheat
Speaker 2: on the dad. So just the two of them that
Speaker 2: first night, and he had been drinking and Benson asks
Speaker 2: if it was the like one time, and she goes, no,
Speaker 2: he drank a lot.
Speaker 4: But then she goes, why does it even matter? He's dead?
Speaker 2: And Benson's like, did you ever tell anyone about this?
Speaker 2: And she says no, she handled it herself and it's fine,
Speaker 2: Please stop. Nobody knew, not Rob, nobody. Benson's like, there
Speaker 2: are people you can talk to and will help you,
Speaker 2: and She's like, if you want to help me, make
Speaker 2: sure Rob never finds out. I never want Rob to know.
Speaker 2: He would be disgusted. Please don't tell him. Benson agrees,
Speaker 2: and then Benson and Tomorrow walk and talk through the
Speaker 2: hospital walls.
Speaker 1: Wait, but did you ever notice how dry the girl's
Speaker 1: lips are? I did, Oh my god, the whole time.
Speaker 1: Her lips are like cracked in a middle like they
Speaker 1: were like. I was like, is that the hair and
Speaker 1: makeup team? Like can they They're like chopped, which would
Speaker 1: happen if you were like in a surgery, in like
Speaker 1: a coma for a few days, you know, like unless
Speaker 1: they're applying lip bomb. And I was like, her lips
Speaker 1: are so I'm sorry, I just had to point it out.
Speaker 1: I'm surprised you always have an eye for everything.
Speaker 4: Well, no, maybe I was too busy typing, you know
Speaker 4: what I mean? Yeah, that's why I.
Speaker 1: Yes too, that's when I was watching more.
Speaker 4: Yeah. So then they're like talking. They're like, do you
Speaker 4: really think Rob didn't know?
Speaker 2: And she's like covering for him, but they're like yeah,
Speaker 2: but that doesn't even make sense, like kill the dad,
Speaker 2: but why are you shooting Emmy?
Speaker 4: And so they're like, let's recheck the forensics.
Speaker 2: So Rollin's and Finn are with Rob and his dad
Speaker 2: and they're asking about Emmy's dad.
Speaker 4: They're basically like, what more do you want from us?
Speaker 2: And they're like, are you sure you're not telling us
Speaker 2: something like what about the dad? And he's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: he was a jerk who drink all day and what
Speaker 2: do you want? And Rollins keeps pushing and the dad
Speaker 2: is like what is this about? And Rollins is like,
Speaker 2: keep going, Rob and ignore the dad, and he explains
Speaker 2: that after Carmen was fired, Emmy spent all her time
Speaker 2: over there, and she was very close to Carmen and
Speaker 2: she was more of a mother than her own mother,
Speaker 2: and she would visit Carmen and beg her to come back.
Speaker 2: So Emmy just hated being alone with her dad. And
Speaker 2: they all make my eyes at each other in silence.
Speaker 2: And now we're back at the precinct and they got
Speaker 2: Carmen in the hot seat and they let her know
Speaker 2: Emmy told us about the father, and we know that
Speaker 2: you were close and that like she told you, and
Speaker 2: she goes, he was a sick man and brought evil
Speaker 2: to the whole house and look what happened because of it.
Speaker 2: And Benson's like, yeah, and you really really love her
Speaker 2: and protect her, and she goes, yeah, and that's how
Speaker 2: you know I couldn't have done this because I would
Speaker 2: never have like shot her. And while Benson and Finner
Speaker 2: with her, Rollin's and Tomorrow are with the brother and
Speaker 2: they're trying to see which one of these two did
Speaker 2: the crime. Knock knock on the door and Kragan's there
Speaker 2: with the forensics report and both Sydney and Emmy's DNA
Speaker 2: were on the bullet removed from Emmy's skull, which means
Speaker 2: that the like, that's why she probably survived because it
Speaker 2: didn't have enough oops, like it went through the dad
Speaker 2: and then into Emmy. And so that's so it was
Speaker 2: not a purposeful attack on Emmy. And and so then
Speaker 2: Tomorrow goes, oh, it must be like weighing on our preacher.
Speaker 2: And so Tomorrow's like, I'm gonna do what cops do best.
Speaker 4: Lie.
Speaker 2: So he goes in there and says, Emmy didn't make it.
Speaker 2: But to me, it's like if they were so close,
Speaker 2: wouldn't Emmy have called them from the hospital or when
Speaker 2: they have visited, you know what I mean, Like they've
Speaker 2: raised her since she was two months old, and she
Speaker 2: didn't like message them, like I feel like they know
Speaker 2: that she's alive. But he says, so he goes, that's
Speaker 2: not possible Robin's and Rollins goes, yeah, post ops seizure,
Speaker 2: the post ops seizure. Like, now that's in my head
Speaker 2: now because of the Andy Carl episode. Oh yeah, you know,
Speaker 2: we all thought he was gonna be fine and then
Speaker 2: he wasn't. So that's gonna be in my mind now.
Speaker 2: From from now on, I will never believe anyone is okay.
Speaker 2: Amaro pushes the paper with the DNA results and it's
Speaker 2: gonna and he starts being like, you know, playing with
Speaker 2: Jimmy and on his weaknesses. There's a little Spanish, a
Speaker 2: little prayers sprinkled in this.
Speaker 4: He's like, it's.
Speaker 2: Gonna eat at you, Jimmy. You want a lie to
Speaker 2: the cops, that's okay. But God knows the truth, and
Speaker 2: he goes Emmy is looking down on YouTube and she
Speaker 2: knows the truth. And he starts praying, and Tomorrow's like,
Speaker 2: if you want God to forgive you, you have to
Speaker 2: forgive yourself to your preacher.
Speaker 4: You know the answer.
Speaker 2: If we confess our sins, then something will cleanse for
Speaker 2: the wickedness the Bible.
Speaker 4: YadA, YadA.
Speaker 2: He turns Tomorrow and goes, that's John one nine. You're
Speaker 2: a believer, and he speaks Spanish. They're snot coming out
Speaker 2: of the brother. We jumped back to Benson and the
Speaker 2: Sister Nanny and she's like, you don't understand.
Speaker 4: I tried. I went to her mother and she didn't
Speaker 4: believe it.
Speaker 2: I was just getting back at She thought I was
Speaker 2: just getting back at Sydney.
Speaker 4: For firing me, and.
Speaker 2: She's like, so it was what is that when you
Speaker 2: decided with your brother to be heroes and kill them?
Speaker 2: And she's like, my brother, he didn't know about this,
Speaker 2: And Finn walks in and says, then, why did your
Speaker 2: brother just confess to the crime. He planned it all
Speaker 2: and she goes, no, he's lying. He did that to
Speaker 2: protect me. She says it was all her idea and
Speaker 2: Sydney was raping her and she starts to cry, and
Speaker 2: Emmy was thinking of killing herself.
Speaker 4: We had to save her.
Speaker 2: And it cuts back to the brother talking about the
Speaker 2: devil and he knows that they're out there because he
Speaker 2: used to be a devil and that man wasn't right,
Speaker 2: so he shot him. I saw her. I knew she
Speaker 2: was there right behind she went down. He cries, he
Speaker 2: would rather take that bullet. He's like, I'd rather take
Speaker 2: that bullet myself. She wasn't supposed to be there. He
Speaker 2: keeps crying, and again she says like she wasn't supposed
Speaker 2: to be there, and he punches the table and cries
Speaker 2: into his wrist and rollins is like, she was supposed
Speaker 2: to be at her boyfriend's right and he's like I know,
Speaker 2: I know. And Amara's like, well, who told you that, Carmen,
Speaker 2: And he goes no, no, no no, and they're like, well,
Speaker 2: how did you know? And everyone stares at each other
Speaker 2: while more dramatic music plays. You know how they usually say,
Speaker 2: like New York's the other character in a show, Like
Speaker 2: the dramatic music is another.
Speaker 4: Violent the other character in the show.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, there's so much drama in this episode. Benson and
Speaker 2: Tomorrow and Craig in her brain's storming, and Benson's like,
Speaker 2: maybe she mentioned it to Carmen and passing like small talk,
Speaker 2: and Tomorrow's like, or she helps set it up, and
Speaker 2: Craigan's like, we got to find out and see what's up.
Speaker 2: And Benson's like fine, but like she's a fourteen year
Speaker 2: old victim of sexual abuse in her own home. And
Speaker 2: Craigan's like, sure, but there are other ways she could
Speaker 2: have handled it. Craigan's like, I hope to god she
Speaker 2: is not involved, but we have to follow through on this,
Speaker 2: And they all look at each other as they go
Speaker 2: to torture this girl. Benson walks in and she's still
Speaker 2: bandaged up and Rob is chilling with her. Amaro closes
Speaker 2: the door and Benson starts to tell her that they
Speaker 2: talk to Carmen and Jimmy who confessed to killing the parents,
Speaker 2: and Robin's like, why would they do that? And Amar's like, wow, okay,
Speaker 2: he really doesn't know. And it's like, why are you
Speaker 2: Why are you blowing it? Why does she have to
Speaker 2: tell him? I don't get why they have a heart
Speaker 2: on for this, obviously for drama because it's TV. But
Speaker 2: I'm like, leave her alone. She doesn't have to tell
Speaker 2: him anything. So they push her to tell Rob the
Speaker 2: truth about her father, and she goes, it's not your choice,
Speaker 2: and I agree with her. So then Rob is like, Emmy,
Speaker 2: what are they talking about? And Benson pulls up a
Speaker 2: chair and sits down and says, I know this is hard,
Speaker 2: but there won't be any secrets when this goes to trial,
Speaker 2: and it will go to trial, and I think it's
Speaker 2: best if he hears it from you. She cries. She
Speaker 2: turns to him and says, my dad forgot that I
Speaker 2: was his daughter, and he's like what does that mean?
Speaker 2: And she cries and is like, don't make me say it.
Speaker 2: It was horrible, and Rob is like, why didn't you
Speaker 2: tell me? I could have helped you, and she's like, well,
Speaker 2: I wanted to be pure for you.
Speaker 4: I didn't want you to think I was dirty.
Speaker 2: And this is like a very important lesson because this
Speaker 2: is a huge issue with like purity and abstinence culture
Speaker 2: is and why young victims don't come forward because it's
Speaker 2: shameful for them and they think they're dirty. And I
Speaker 2: just like, this was such a like one sentence moment,
Speaker 2: but it encapsulates so many issues that we instilled in
Speaker 2: young people and why this sort of languaging is so
Speaker 2: fucked up. And then Rob is like, I would never
Speaker 2: have judged you. I love you no matter what, and
Speaker 2: Tomorrow is like, well, one thing I didn't get when
Speaker 2: Jimmy confessed. He kept saying I'm sorry, I'm sorry. She
Speaker 2: wasn't supposed to be there, and you weren't supposed to
Speaker 2: be there, were you? And Rob's like, no, she was
Speaker 2: supposed to be at my house and Emmy's like, it
Speaker 2: wasn't part of the plan. And then they're like what plan, Emmy,
Speaker 2: And she goes Carmen and Jimmy were trying to save me.
Speaker 2: I told them Friday night, my parents will both be home,
Speaker 2: and she was supposed to be at Rob's house, and
Speaker 2: she told them to write queers on the wall so
Speaker 2: the cops would think it's a hate crime. And Omar's like, okay,
Speaker 2: your father, I get but your mother. And She's like,
Speaker 2: my father was just pathetic, he couldn't help himself, but
Speaker 2: my mom I hated her more than him. Benson turns
Speaker 2: to Tomorrow and says she knew. Emmy cries out she
Speaker 2: let it happen. Carmen tries to tell her, I tried.
Speaker 2: Everybody thinks she's some kind of hero, but she was
Speaker 2: more worried about saving the world than about saving her
Speaker 2: own daughter. And Tomorrow was like, Emmy, we're gonna have
Speaker 2: to arrest you. And Rob's like, you can't take her,
Speaker 2: you can't do this, don't do it. And She's like
Speaker 2: it's okay, I'm free. I'm free, and they hug and cry.
Speaker 2: She says I'm free now. Benson looks down. She doesn't
Speaker 2: want to arrest her. We're now with Rollin's and Craigan
Speaker 2: walking into a meeting, and he says, you're here, it's
Speaker 2: the first step, and she smiles. She walks into the
Speaker 2: meeting as Craigan stares in the doorway, looking and she
Speaker 2: sits so aggressively manspread style, like totally dangerous minds, like.
Speaker 4: Her legs cand like her legs probably took.
Speaker 2: Four fucking subway seats and that's dick wolf baby. And
Speaker 2: this is difficult because I don't want anyone going to jail.
Speaker 1: I don't think that this girl will end up going
Speaker 1: to jail. She's fourteen, and it's not like she paid
Speaker 1: for it. It was like she just told these adults,
Speaker 1: like what the schedule was of the household. I feel
Speaker 1: like any good lawyer would be like able to get
Speaker 1: her off. And like she was fourteen and she thought
Speaker 1: this is how I get out of a horrifically abusive situation,
Speaker 1: Like she'll.
Speaker 2: Go to maybe juvenile and then be out. Yeah, but
Speaker 2: I don't want Carmen and Jimmy to go to jail either.
Speaker 1: I know, but unfortunately, Yeah, all right, well let's get
Speaker 1: to this fucking new crime. I wish that they could
Speaker 1: have just gone to the police maybe, like I don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I just wonder if that's not part of
Speaker 2: Jimmy and Carmen's culture, especially since Jimmy served time and
Speaker 2: like I don't know where you know, I yeah, and
Speaker 2: you might they might be raised in a place where
Speaker 2: you don't you don't involve the cop.
Speaker 1: But they did get six members of the congregation to
Speaker 1: back him up and say that he was a Bible study.
Speaker 4: They all lied, yeah, or Bible study ended early.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're right here, yeah, right, like his full alibi
Speaker 1: was like his congregation. I'm obsessed with on Lacey's Scam
Speaker 1: Goddess podcast how she calls her listeners the congregation.
Speaker 4: I think that's so funny.
Speaker 1: Okay, well, we've got an interesting crime when we come back,
Speaker 1: so don't go anywhere, and we're back. So this episode
Speaker 1: is obviously could be based on a lot of things,
Speaker 1: like if you go to like the wiki or other
Speaker 1: resources on the internet, it's like the Menendez brothers are listed,
Speaker 1: Like there are a lot of cases of people who
Speaker 1: have committed parricide, which is killing your parents. Like I
Speaker 1: ran in I saw one case where there was a
Speaker 1: woman named Stacy Ann Lannert who was convicted of the
Speaker 1: murder of her father Tom in nineteen ninety when she
Speaker 1: was eighteen, and she testified that he had sexually abusedress
Speaker 1: since she was eight and that seems similar. She did
Speaker 1: get life in prison, but then got out after eighteen years,
Speaker 1: so I'm happy that she was able to get some
Speaker 1: of her life back.
Speaker 4: So maybe our girl is going to jail, but she
Speaker 4: was eighteen.
Speaker 1: I don't think fourteen that they're going to send her
Speaker 1: to like an adult jail, but you know, maybe not.
Speaker 2: And what's the vibe with the Menendez brothers did they?
Speaker 2: Are they good or bad?
Speaker 4: Well?
Speaker 1: The Menendez brothers claim their parents were molesting them, but
Speaker 1: apparently there's like not a lot of proof of that
Speaker 1: and it's something that they came up with like later to.
Speaker 4: Justify like that.
Speaker 1: I watched the whole Ryan Murphy crime story about the
Speaker 1: Menandez brothers, and that was kind of when I learned
Speaker 1: more about it because I think the original like media
Speaker 1: presentation of it at the beginning was that they were
Speaker 1: just like these two rich boys and they wanted to
Speaker 1: kill their parents because their parents were like not giving
Speaker 1: them enough money and they wanted to just like be
Speaker 1: able to spend and live. And then they said that
Speaker 1: they were being molested by their parents, So I but
Speaker 1: I do not know. But also I think that the
Speaker 1: Menendez brothers did it themselves anyway.
Speaker 2: The they're just my the most fai I bet like
Speaker 2: people like their parents.
Speaker 4: But I think I'm ready to focus.
Speaker 1: Yeah, in terms of having a third party kill your parents.
Speaker 1: I think this is more related to the story of
Speaker 1: Jennifer Pan. And before you all send me a message,
Speaker 1: I don't that My Favorite Murder has covered this, but
Speaker 1: it is. Uh, this is a different podcast, and so
Speaker 1: this and also the Jennifer Pan case was unfolding like
Speaker 1: right as this episode came out.
Speaker 4: So that's why I think this is what it's more
Speaker 4: based on.
Speaker 1: Jennifer Pan is the Vietnamese Canadian woman raised by her
Speaker 1: parents who immigrated to Canada from Vietnam. Her mother's name
Speaker 1: was Bick Hoppon and her father's name was Hue Han
Speaker 1: Pon or Pan is the last name, and she was
Speaker 1: and she had one brother named Felix. So they these
Speaker 1: people met in Canada, got married, had their two kids,
Speaker 1: and they worked their fucking asses off. They worked for
Speaker 1: an autoparts manufacturer near Toronto. They counted every penny until
Speaker 1: they bought a super nice house, drove like Lexuses and Mercedes,
Speaker 1: and had two hundred thousand dollars in the bank like
Speaker 1: they were living like quote unquote like the immigrant success story,
Speaker 1: you know, and so they were pretty demanding of their kids.
Speaker 1: Jennifer was like in piano lessons from age four, she
Speaker 1: was doing figure skating and apparently she was going for
Speaker 1: Olympics until an injury kind of put a topic in
Speaker 1: her dream. And now some friends and classmates said that
Speaker 1: her dad was quote a classic tiger dad, while her
Speaker 1: mom just kind of like went along with it. But
Speaker 1: they monitored the kids pretty closely, like no dances, no boys,
Speaker 1: no parties. And then the pressure apparently really got to
Speaker 1: Jennifer and she began cutting herself at a young age.
Speaker 1: She had a classmate named Karen Hoe who wrote a
Speaker 1: full profile on her for Toronto Life.
Speaker 4: It's in my sources.
Speaker 1: And they had known each other like kind of, you know,
Speaker 1: peripherally at school, but she knew about her, and she
Speaker 1: wrote this whole article about the whole story and everything
Speaker 1: that went on, and I think tried to portray a
Speaker 1: little bit more of Jennifer's side of things. And they
Speaker 1: went to mary Ward Catholic Secondary School in North Scarborough,
Speaker 1: which she said was a great place for Jennifer because
Speaker 1: at that like academic ambition was like considered cool, like
Speaker 1: being a nerd was cool, but also being a jock
Speaker 1: was cool like everybody. It was very like bohemian and
Speaker 1: everybody was cool, which is wild for a Catholic school.
Speaker 1: But she said, Jennifer was a social butterfly. She got
Speaker 1: along with everybody. She'd been a really great student earlier,
Speaker 1: like maybe in elementary and middle school, but by the
Speaker 1: time she was in ninth grade, she was like a
Speaker 1: C student, and she would forge her report cards and
Speaker 1: make it look like she got straight a's, Like she
Speaker 1: full exact o knife and glue and like would like
Speaker 1: you know, photocopy and make like report cards. So when
Speaker 1: she had eleventh grade, Jennifer met Daniel Wong, who was
Speaker 1: a great ahead of her, and they were in band together,
Speaker 1: and he was this like sort of funny, goofball, easygoing
Speaker 1: kind of guy, and they were just friends until when
Speaker 1: they were on a band trip she had an asthma attack.
Speaker 1: Daniel helped calm her down, and she said, quote, he
Speaker 1: pretty much saved my life, and then they started dating
Speaker 1: that summer. By her senior year in high school, she's
Speaker 1: like making bees, but she's still forging report cards to
Speaker 1: say that she's got all a's. She does get accepted
Speaker 1: early into Ryerson, which is a unif in Canada, but
Speaker 1: then she failed calculus and couldn't graduate high school, and
Speaker 1: so she lost her acceptance there. But she lied to
Speaker 1: her parents and said that she was going to the
Speaker 1: school and that eventually she was going to go on
Speaker 1: and do like a pharmacology study, and that that was
Speaker 1: her dad's dream for her, that she would become a pharmacist.
Speaker 1: I think, And so they've such a funny dream to
Speaker 1: have for somebody.
Speaker 2: It's a cool job, like I have to go to
Speaker 2: the pharmacy today and pick up a prescription. Very grateful
Speaker 2: for pharmacists, But for your dream to be for your
Speaker 2: child to be like hauled up in a little room
Speaker 2: in the back of a of a Walgreens is funny
Speaker 2: to me.
Speaker 4: Of the whole world.
Speaker 2: Like you could like you can work everywhere and anywhere,
Speaker 2: and it's like you better get to the back of
Speaker 2: the CVS to fulfill my house.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm wondering if maybe he like thought she was
Speaker 1: gonna could be wanted wanted her to be a doctor.
Speaker 1: But then does pharmacology require going to medical school or
Speaker 1: just going to pharmacology school. No, it's a long process, Okay,
Speaker 1: Because I was wondering if like, yeah, it is weird
Speaker 1: to specifically be like, yes, pharmacology, I want you in pills, girl,
Speaker 1: this is where you're gonna shine. Like it's weird, but
Speaker 1: that is was like what he wanted her to do.
Speaker 1: So she's like keeping up this ruse. She's fully living
Speaker 1: a lie.
Speaker 4: This girl.
Speaker 1: Okay, she attended a pre orientation program at the school
Speaker 1: even though she is not going there. She's forging loan
Speaker 1: paperwork and telling her dad she's won a scholarship. Like
Speaker 1: she handles everything when her parents have a question about
Speaker 1: like what's going on, And she'd pretend to go to
Speaker 1: school every day. She was actually just going to the
Speaker 1: library doing random research on like science y stuff and
Speaker 1: then taking like notebooks full of notes to like keep
Speaker 1: up with the act in case her dad like asked
Speaker 1: to see her notes. She also started waitressing and teaching
Speaker 1: piano lessons on the side, and her dad would ask
Speaker 1: her about school and this our one article says her
Speaker 1: mom would say just let her be yourself, and like
Speaker 1: would stop, Like so it sounds like a lot of
Speaker 1: the pressure was coming from the dad in what I've read,
Speaker 1: and not as much from the mom. And so she
Speaker 1: kept this up for two years, like the first two
Speaker 1: years of college. Then she told her parents she's been
Speaker 1: accepted into the pharmacology program at the University of Toronto.
Speaker 4: A lie. They're so excited.
Speaker 1: She convinces them that, like the commute is too hard
Speaker 1: and can she go live with her friend for a
Speaker 1: few days a week to like ease up the commute.
Speaker 1: That was a lie as well. She wasn't even going
Speaker 1: to her friend's place. She was going to stay with
Speaker 1: Daniel and his family. And then she would lie to
Speaker 1: his family and say, welly couldn't she have.
Speaker 4: Just like done calculus in summer school, Like I.
Speaker 1: Just I know, but I think it was like they
Speaker 1: would have yeah, instead of waitressing, you could have just
Speaker 1: taken the calculus on the side. But I think it
Speaker 1: was like more psychological than this, And she just built
Speaker 1: up the lie and built up the lie, and so
Speaker 1: she was really going to stay with Daniel. So now
Speaker 1: two more dear years go by and she found someone
Speaker 1: to now it's tempt for her to graduate, and she
Speaker 1: found someone to doctor a transcript of all of A's
Speaker 1: And then she told her parents they couldn't come to
Speaker 1: graduation because like, oh, it's like so many people are graduating.
Speaker 1: They only give us one ticket, and I don't want
Speaker 1: to choose between you two, so I'm just going to
Speaker 1: give it to a friend.
Speaker 4: So they don't go to a graduation.
Speaker 1: And eventually the dad did start to catch on to
Speaker 1: some of the lies, Like eventually she tells them that
Speaker 1: she has this job working at a lab, and he's like,
Speaker 1: why don't you have like a uniform for this lab,
Speaker 1: or like an ID badge or anything that like shows
Speaker 1: that you work at this lab. So one day they
Speaker 1: insisted on driving her to school, I mean school to
Speaker 1: the hospital. He makes the mom follow her into the hospital.
Speaker 1: She sprints into the building and like hides in the
Speaker 1: waiting room, like hides in the er waiting room until
Speaker 1: her parents leave. But they're onto it, so they call
Speaker 1: her roommate, her alleged roommate whose name is Topaz, which
Speaker 1: I love, and Topaz tells them the truth that she's
Speaker 1: not there, and she's like, really, never there, And then
Speaker 1: they confronted Jennifer, who confess that the lab job was
Speaker 1: a lie, and so was the pharmacology program. She still
Speaker 1: didn't tell them that she never graduated high school and
Speaker 1: never attended Ryerson. So she's like half confessing. Her father
Speaker 1: is furious tries to kick her out of the house,
Speaker 1: but the mom like calms them down and gets them to, like,
Speaker 1: you know, walk that back. They take away her cell
Speaker 1: and her computer for two weeks, and at this point,
Speaker 1: she's twenty three years old. By the way, she's like
Speaker 1: twenty three. They make her quit all of her jobs
Speaker 1: except for the teaching piano. They let her do, but
Speaker 1: they keep a strict eye on her. They watch the
Speaker 1: milage in her car to make sure she's like not
Speaker 1: going all the way out to visit Daniel, and they
Speaker 1: say she can't see Daniel anymore. They're watching her like
Speaker 1: a hawk. I guess After this two week period or whatever,
Speaker 1: they eventually ease up. They let her enroll in a
Speaker 1: calculus class so she could finish high school. She also
Speaker 1: keeps secretly visiting Daniel, but he's getting tired of the secrecy.
Speaker 1: He's like, bitch, you're twenty four, Like, can we move on? Like?
Speaker 1: So he breaks up with her and he starts dating
Speaker 1: a woman named Christine. When Jennifer finds out about Christine,
Speaker 1: she tells Daniel two kind of wild stories. One is
Speaker 1: that she was gang raved in the entryway of her
Speaker 1: home by these men who busted in posing as cops.
Speaker 1: And she also said she got a bullet in the mail.
Speaker 1: Neither of these stories are true, and she tells them
Speaker 1: to Daniel because she tells them that these are things
Speaker 1: Christine has done to send her a message like stay
Speaker 1: away from my man.
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 1: So she seems like she's going through a lot psychologically,
Speaker 1: Like at one point she posts on Facebook, quote, no
Speaker 1: one person knows everything about me, and no people, no
Speaker 1: two people put together knows everything about me dot dot dot.
Speaker 1: I like being a mystery end quote. All right, so
Speaker 1: this is what's going on with Jennifer in twenty ten.
Speaker 2: So at this point, yeah, I'm also I'm curious about
Speaker 2: compulsive liars because I've met some. I know some obviously,
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's just intense, but I'm curious
Speaker 2: how that forms or like what happens, yeah, psychologically, like
Speaker 2: what kind of break happens where you just like cannot
Speaker 2: stop lying?
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah yeah, And in this case, I mean, you
Speaker 1: haven't worked for you girl, like, yeah, you got caught.
Speaker 4: I guess they work for years. I don't know. This
Speaker 4: is well, I mean I think you.
Speaker 1: Could argue in this case, that her parents put a
Speaker 1: lot of pressure on her, and that she builds up
Speaker 1: the lies in order to create her unillusion of her
Speaker 1: own success to appease her parents. Yeah, and that it
Speaker 1: just got bigger and bigger and bigger, and like kind
Speaker 1: of just got out of control. So this same year
Speaker 1: twenty ten, that this is all going on, she reconnects
Speaker 1: with an old elementary school friend named Andrew Montemior and
Speaker 1: they commiserate over their parents and he's like, yeah, one
Speaker 1: time I considered killing my dad, And Jennifer was like, WHOA,
Speaker 1: what a great idea.
Speaker 4: I never thought of that.
Speaker 1: Monte Mayor introduces her to this guy named Ricardo Duncan,
Speaker 1: who's quote unquote a goth in many of the readings
Speaker 1: I'm reading, like because he had blackmail Polish and she
Speaker 1: said she gave him fifteen hundred dollars to do it,
Speaker 1: or someone said that she someone said she gave him
Speaker 1: fifteen hundred dollars and that he ghosted her and realized
Speaker 1: she realized she got scammed, but that later he claimed
Speaker 1: He's like, I got offended whend she even asked me
Speaker 1: and I she only ever gave me two hundred dollars
Speaker 1: and it was for like a night that we went
Speaker 1: out and I gave it back to her, So he
Speaker 1: denied it, but who.
Speaker 4: Knows who's telling the truth there.
Speaker 1: So that was like the first attempt she made to
Speaker 1: you know, kill her parents. Now Daniel and Jennifer are
Speaker 1: maybe back together. They're definitely in constant contact, and it's
Speaker 1: very flirty. It's very Amanda Dollins in those text messages,
Speaker 1: and they're coming up with a plan to have a
Speaker 1: hit man kill her parents, like like, let's pay someone
Speaker 1: who's like like a legit hit man, and then let's
Speaker 1: get the five hundred thousand dollars inheritance that she would
Speaker 1: stand to get from her parents' death.
Speaker 4: So that they could start their lives together.
Speaker 1: So Daniel connects Jennifer with this guy named Lenford Crawford
Speaker 1: aka Homeboy. Everybody calls him Homeboy, and Jennifer claims she
Speaker 1: doesn't even know his real name, she only knows him
Speaker 1: as homeboy. Homeboy says it's twenty thousand dollars for a hit,
Speaker 1: but he's going to give her a friends and family
Speaker 1: discount of ten thousand dollars, So he's going to do
Speaker 1: it for ten k and she's going to be paid.
Speaker 1: She's going to pay them out of the inheritance, which
Speaker 1: that's promising a lot. These guys are going on very
Speaker 1: little promise of just like that the money's coming, because
Speaker 1: sometimes I feel like that shit can take a long time.
Speaker 1: But anyway, a few days later, Daniel, after Daniel's helped
Speaker 1: move this whole plan into motion, he tells Jennifer, oh, JK,
Speaker 1: I love Christine. Sorry, and Jennifer in text messages, Jennifer's like, okay, well,
Speaker 1: then call it off with Homeboy and he's like, but
Speaker 1: I thought you wanted this for you and she's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: but I have nowhere to go, and he's like it
Speaker 1: sounds like he was just trying to get out of
Speaker 1: the whole thing. And their texts turned flirty again. So
Speaker 1: who knows what's going on with these two crazy kids.
Speaker 1: So the next week there's a bunch of calls and
Speaker 1: texts between Jennifer, Daniel, and Homeboy, and on the morning
Speaker 1: of November eighth, Homeboy texts Jennifer and says, quote, after work, okay,
Speaker 1: we'll be game time.
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 1: So then that night, the night of November eighth, Jennifer
Speaker 1: was like in her room watching TV Gossip Girl and
Speaker 1: Johny Kate Let's eight it in case you were wondering.
Speaker 1: Her dad Han is reading the Vietnamese news and then
Speaker 1: he goes to bed. Around eight thirty, her mother, Bick,
Speaker 1: was out line dancing and her brother was like away
Speaker 1: at college and wasn't home. And approximately nine thirty, Bick
Speaker 1: comes home from class, gets into her PJ, soaks her
Speaker 1: feet in front of the TV on the main floor.
Speaker 1: At nine thirty five, a guy named David Milvaganaum, who
Speaker 1: is a friend of Homeboys, calls Jennifer and they spoke
Speaker 1: for two minutes. Then Jennifer goes downstairs, says good night
Speaker 1: to her mom, and then, as she later admitted, she
Speaker 1: unlocked the front door, but then she later retracted this admission,
Speaker 1: so but that's the door was open. At ten o two,
Speaker 1: Jennifer allegedly signaled the hitman by like kind of switching
Speaker 1: a light on and off for a certain amount of time,
Speaker 1: and at ten oh five Milvoganam called again. Him and
Speaker 1: Jennifer talked for three and a half minutes. I don't
Speaker 1: know what they're talking about. Moments later, homeboy Milvoganam and
Speaker 1: a third man named Eric Carty walked through the front door,
Speaker 1: all three of them carrying guns. One pointed his gun
Speaker 1: at the mom, while another one ran upstairs and shoved
Speaker 1: a gun in the sleeping father's face and made him
Speaker 1: get out of bed, come downstairs and into the living room,
Speaker 1: and then.
Speaker 4: Upstairs the guy carty.
Speaker 1: He tied Jennifer's arms behind her back using a shoelace.
Speaker 4: I don't know how tight that could be.
Speaker 1: He She gave him twenty five hundred dollars in cash
Speaker 1: and then pointed him to eleven hundred dollars in her
Speaker 1: mother's nightstand, and then they went to the kitchen to
Speaker 1: like start looking for wallets. Meanwhile, in the living room,
Speaker 1: the parents are talking to each other in cantonese. They're like,
Speaker 1: how did they get in? And then father's like, I
Speaker 1: don't know, I was sleeping, and then the hitman tells
Speaker 1: them to shut up, and pistol whips the dad when
Speaker 1: he says that he only has sixty dollars and calls
Speaker 1: him a liar. And then Bick is crying and begging
Speaker 1: them not to hurt Jennifer, like, don't hurt our daughter,
Speaker 1: and then one of them says, this is the quote
Speaker 1: rest assured she is nice and will not be hurt. Ah,
Speaker 1: that doesn't really sound like love language anyone would use,
Speaker 1: but there we go. Carti leads Jennifer back upstairs, ties
Speaker 1: her arm to the banister while Milvaganam and Homeboy take
Speaker 1: the parents downstairs, cover their head with blankets. They shoot
Speaker 1: the father twice, once in the shoulder and once in
Speaker 1: the face. They shoot the mom three times in the head,
Speaker 1: killing her instantly, and then they take off. Jennifer reported
Speaker 1: that she somehow managed to reach her phone in the
Speaker 1: waistband of her pants to call nine one one, even
Speaker 1: though her hands were tied behind.
Speaker 4: Her back, so that's sus.
Speaker 1: She called nine one one frantically yelling help me, please,
Speaker 1: I need help. I don't know where my parents are,
Speaker 1: Please hurry. At the thirty four second mark on the
Speaker 1: nine one one call, you can hear her father moaning
Speaker 1: in the background. He had woken up covered in blood
Speaker 1: with his dead wife next to him, and he had
Speaker 1: like made his way upstairs crawling. Jennifer yelled down, I'm
Speaker 1: calling nine one one or whatever, and then Han stumbles
Speaker 1: outside screaming, and a neighbor sees him, Thank God, on
Speaker 1: his way to work or something. And calls nine one one.
Speaker 1: The police and the ambulance get there. Han gets rushed
Speaker 1: to the hospital. So the police questioned Jennifer and showed
Speaker 1: them basically how she did some kind of search to
Speaker 1: solet move to get these this phone out of her pants.
Speaker 1: And the cops are like very confused by all the
Speaker 1: details of this robbery. They're like, so the keys to
Speaker 1: the Lexus were sitting right there. Why would these dudes
Speaker 1: not take the keys to lexus? If this is a robbery.
Speaker 1: Why didn't they have like a crowbar or some other
Speaker 1: way to access the house, like other than the front door.
Speaker 1: They had no bag to carry any of the stolen
Speaker 1: goods that they were planning to steal. They didn't have
Speaker 1: zip ties or anything they brought to tie up the victims.
Speaker 1: Like even though it's a robbery, it feels like it's
Speaker 1: a murder, and so like that that's the goal of
Speaker 1: the attack.
Speaker 4: And the biggest thing they said is why.
Speaker 1: In God's green earth would they leave a witness to
Speaker 1: their murder of two people? Like why would they not
Speaker 1: kill Jennifer? So the cops decide to tail Jennifer and
Speaker 1: then a few days later, the dad wakes up from
Speaker 1: his coma. He was very fucked up, like there's a
Speaker 1: broken bone near his eye, he's got bullet fragments in
Speaker 1: his face, he's got a shattered neckbone.
Speaker 4: But guess what.
Speaker 1: He remembers everything, And one detail that he remembered was
Speaker 1: Jennifer talking softly to one of the hit man quote
Speaker 1: unquote like a friend, and that she was not tied up.
Speaker 1: And so then they bring Jennifer in for an interview
Speaker 1: and they're basically like the jig is up, and then
Speaker 1: she breaks down, crying and goes but what happens to me?
Speaker 1: So next she tries to convince the cops that this
Speaker 1: was actually a suicide attempt gone awry. She said she
Speaker 1: wanted to die and hired Homeboy to kill her. But
Speaker 1: she said that things had kind of improved very recently
Speaker 1: with her dad and that she called off the hit,
Speaker 1: but that these guys just decided to still kill her
Speaker 1: parents for like a robbery. So by the spring of
Speaker 1: twenty eleven, this whole thing is like pretty much figured out.
Speaker 1: They've charged Daniel Milvagana, I'm Cardi, and Homeboy all with
Speaker 1: first degree murder, attempted murder, and the conspiracy to commit
Speaker 1: murder all the same charges that Jennifer is charged with
Speaker 1: as well. And then this episode comes out in twenty twelve,
Speaker 1: so after all the arrests, but before the trial. The
Speaker 1: trial starts in twenty fourteen, and it goes on for
Speaker 1: ten months. It has two hundred exhibits and fifty witnesses testified,
Speaker 1: so it's like a big ass trial. Jennifer took the
Speaker 1: stand and was on the stand for seven days trying
Speaker 1: to explain away all these texts with Daniel and these guys,
Speaker 1: and she tried to convince the jury like, yes, I
Speaker 1: ordered the hit in August, but then I didn't want
Speaker 1: to do it when November came around, and she said,
Speaker 1: she said on the stand quote, I needed my family
Speaker 1: to be around me. I wanted them to accept me.
Speaker 1: I didn't want to live alone. I didn't want them
Speaker 1: to abandon me either. So this is a girl who,
Speaker 1: like her own lawyer, described her as having the social
Speaker 1: skills of a teenager, like I feel like she just
Speaker 1: didn't know how to grow up. But her parents also
Speaker 1: didn't like let her grow up. They like never let
Speaker 1: her go away with a friend, They never let her
Speaker 1: do any thing on her own, Like everything was so strict,
Speaker 1: and so she's like, my family's suffocating me under their expectations,
Speaker 1: but also what can I even do without them?
Speaker 4: Like she's feels.
Speaker 1: I think that's like what kind of propelled her to
Speaker 1: build all these lies and then eventually get to this
Speaker 1: point where she didn't want her lies exposed?
Speaker 4: So she's a psychopath. I don't feel bad for her.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she would have, well somebody else like this amount
Speaker 2: of she's stone cold. Yeah, this is a stone cold
Speaker 2: woman like Emmy in the in the show. I feel
Speaker 2: for her. I feel bad. I don't want to go
Speaker 2: to jail. I don't want the babysitters this. These parents
Speaker 2: are terrible this. I'm like, well, God, this bitch is away.
Speaker 2: I mean, we'll see the other.
Speaker 1: The other reason I agree, I agree with you pretty much.
Speaker 1: I do find like whatever, I think the pressures of
Speaker 1: the parents added to it. But the mom seemed it
Speaker 1: seems like in through everything I've read, the mom didn't
Speaker 1: do anything. So if you want to kill your dad,
Speaker 1: kill your fucking dad, you killed your mom because then
Speaker 1: you get the money, you know, if your mom lives,
Speaker 1: you don't get the money, you know, until she dies.
Speaker 1: So it's like she wanted the money. She wanted to
Speaker 1: start her life with Daniel and was madly in love
Speaker 1: with him, and like.
Speaker 2: That was so you're right, and obviously I know that
Speaker 2: the parents suffocated her and like she might have not
Speaker 2: learned life skills. But it's like you're in You're already
Speaker 2: in your twenty. It was like you could have moved
Speaker 2: in with Daniel. You could have used your waitressing money.
Speaker 2: Like there, I am just like this. If she didn't
Speaker 2: kill her parents, she would have killed someone else. She
Speaker 2: would have lied about something like she does not care
Speaker 2: about human like I do not think she cares.
Speaker 4: I don't think she has human emotions.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was the other thing too, And a lot
Speaker 1: of the coverage they found like her to be very emotionless,
Speaker 1: but she had said like that she was used to
Speaker 1: putting on like what she called her happy mask, to
Speaker 1: like for her parents to like act like everything was okay,
Speaker 1: and then behind that, like behind closed door, she would
Speaker 1: like be upset and crying and like feeling emotions.
Speaker 4: But I don't know.
Speaker 1: I will say that when the guilty verdict was delivered,
Speaker 1: she showed no emotion, but then once the press left,
Speaker 1: she was aching and bawling.
Speaker 4: So Okay, I don't know.
Speaker 1: So she got so there's something for her that's performative
Speaker 1: about other people and what other people are going to
Speaker 1: see and like the success other people expect from you,
Speaker 1: or something that like I don't know. So she got
Speaker 1: an automatic life sentence with no chance of parole for
Speaker 1: twenty five years for the murder of her mother, and
Speaker 1: then for the attempted murder of her father, she got
Speaker 1: another life sentence to be served Concurrently, Daniel Milvaganam and
Speaker 1: Homeboy each received the exact same sentence. Carti's trial got
Speaker 1: postponed due to a sick lawyer, and in twenty fifteen
Speaker 1: he got an eighteen year sentence after pleading guilty. He
Speaker 1: pled guilty. Everyone else pled not guilty. He did not
Speaker 1: want to put the father through another trial, and so
Speaker 1: he got eighteen years for pleading guilty to conspiring to
Speaker 1: commit murder, with an eligibility for parole after nine years.
Speaker 1: Also because I think Carti wasn't one of the ones
Speaker 1: who went down and actually shot at the parents. He
Speaker 1: had Jennifer upstairs, so maybe that's why he got like
Speaker 1: a bit of a lighter sentence. He did die in jail,
Speaker 1: so he is no longer with us, but I was.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm glad he committed. I'm glad he entered
Speaker 1: a guilty police so that this poor old man would
Speaker 1: not have to go through another trial. The judge at
Speaker 1: the sentencing of Jennifer ordered no communication between her and
Speaker 1: her family at the family's request, so basically she can
Speaker 1: never talk to her brother and father again unless they
Speaker 1: remove that order. She's also forbidden from talking to Daniel.
Speaker 1: The father's victim impact statement said, quote, when I lost
Speaker 1: my wife, I lost my daughter at the same time.
Speaker 1: I don't feel like I have a family anymore. Some
Speaker 1: say I should feel lucky to be alive, but I
Speaker 1: feel like I am dead too. I hope my daughter
Speaker 1: Jennifer thinks about what has happened to her family and
Speaker 1: can become a good, honest person someday.
Speaker 4: End quote. I mean, you do have a son, but anyway,
Speaker 4: it's horrible.
Speaker 1: This man, like this poor man, he can't work because
Speaker 1: of his injuries. He has anxiety attacks, insomnia, and nightmares.
Speaker 1: He's in constant pain. He's given up on all the
Speaker 1: things that brought him joy, like gardening and working on cars.
Speaker 4: He lives with he can't live in his house.
Speaker 1: Anymore because of the memories, and so he lives nearby
Speaker 1: with relatives. He's trying to sell the house, but no
Speaker 1: one will buy it because there's been like this public
Speaker 1: home invasion and all of these people, all of the men,
Speaker 1: and Jennifer will be eligible for parole in twenty thirty five.
Speaker 1: Jennifer will be forty nine, Daniel will be fifty. If
Speaker 1: they get parole. Who knows if they will. I don't
Speaker 1: know how Canada does their parole. And people, you know,
Speaker 1: still wonder if Jennifer had meant to illness. Her lawyer
Speaker 1: did not present any kind of mental illness defense at
Speaker 1: her trial, but people speculate, there's all kinds of speculations
Speaker 1: for peop who knew her in high school, that her
Speaker 1: parents pushed her too hard and treated her like shit,
Speaker 1: and that her lies just snowballed until she lost control.
Speaker 1: And according to the South China Morning Posts, this was
Speaker 1: this whole event sent shockwaves across Canada and the Asian diaspora.
Speaker 4: That's a quote about the shockwaves.
Speaker 1: So in the Asian community, it was like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: like your child, the child killing, having her parents killed
Speaker 1: was like, you know, this huge story that really everybody
Speaker 1: was talking about. And I did read this one piece
Speaker 1: in Northwest Asian Weekly that was a maybe lightly in
Speaker 1: defense of her. It's said quote the idea of recognizing
Speaker 1: that the mental and psychological symptoms that parenting may have
Speaker 1: gone too far in the panhousehold.
Speaker 4: So but that is that on Jennifer Panie.
Speaker 2: She gives me Casey Anthony vibes in terms of her lying. Yeah,
Speaker 2: where it's like you know, where they go to Universal
Speaker 2: or Disney and like through the offices and like same here,
Speaker 2: like taking to the er not admitting it sooner.
Speaker 4: Like the lies just got too big. This is bad.
Speaker 4: I feel so horrible for these parents.
Speaker 5: I know.
Speaker 1: And it's like she could have moved in with Daniel,
Speaker 1: but I think she was scared to leave her parents.
Speaker 1: Like I think that that wouldn't even feel like an option,
Speaker 1: like of her leaving her parents. Yeah, no, I think
Speaker 1: murder is better. It's it's definitely not. But I think
Speaker 1: that she thought this is a way where it's like
Speaker 1: out of my hands, Like I don't, you know, I
Speaker 1: don't know the things people like convince themselves are wild.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's just so fucking sad, dude.
Speaker 4: But you know, what's not sad The guests we have
Speaker 4: coming up. Oh, people are gonna lose their minds.
Speaker 1: Absolutely lose your minds. Please gather yourself together and prepare
Speaker 1: yourself for our guest. Listen, guys, it's guest time. And
Speaker 1: this is, without exaggeration, one of the most important podcasting
Speaker 1: events of the twenty first century. I'm not going to
Speaker 1: list credits because you don't need them. Our guest needs
Speaker 1: no introduction. From twenty eleven to twenty twenty two, she
Speaker 1: played Detective Amanda Rollins. Because we got to talk to
Speaker 1: the amazing Kelly Giddish and here it is Kelly.
Speaker 2: We are beyond thrilled. I feel like Barbara Walters and
Speaker 2: we got an exclusive like, well.
Speaker 4: Thank you, We're really excited to talk to you.
Speaker 2: And and hard to choose an episode had we have
Speaker 2: emotional arcs.
Speaker 5: Well, thank you for choosing now. And I just watched
Speaker 5: it as I was working out just now and it's
Speaker 5: so heartbreaking that episode. Yeah, so thank you, thank you
Speaker 5: for suggesting that when it was in my first season
Speaker 5: and it's it's a it's a really brutal one.
Speaker 1: So yeah, your first season thirteen, what like, what how
Speaker 1: did the how did the Dick Wolf journey begin for
Speaker 1: you because I know my name is Kara. You played
Speaker 1: a character named Kara as a victim earlier in the
Speaker 1: season in the in Your In you know, I don't
Speaker 1: remember what season that was, but I don't need it,
Speaker 1: but yeah, did they just like bring you in for
Speaker 1: this new character? Like what was the whole audition process
Speaker 1: and chemistry tests and what?
Speaker 5: Well, So I've gotten a couple of shows where I
Speaker 5: was the lead on, like I did a lead I
Speaker 5: did a show on Fox and written by David Hudgens
Speaker 5: who did Friday Night Wives. It was an awesome experience.
Speaker 5: Last seven episodes. Okay, So then I get another I
Speaker 5: get another series called Chase and it's Jerry Brookheimer produced,
Speaker 5: and I was like, oh my god, and I get
Speaker 5: to do all these stunts and live in Texas and
Speaker 5: wear cowboy boots. And then it was canceled after one season.
Speaker 5: So my heart was completely broken. But I get this
Speaker 5: phone call saying, hey, Chris Maloney is leaving and Warren
Speaker 5: Light is taking over the Helm of SVU and you
Speaker 5: know he knows you, and would you like to come
Speaker 5: in for a meeting and just see what it's about.
Speaker 5: And I was like, yeah, So I went in and
Speaker 5: I met I met some higher ups in the Dick
Speaker 5: Wolf world, Peter Jenkowski, and that meeting went great. And
Speaker 5: then I had a phone call with Warren and you know,
Speaker 5: they were like, would you like to come out and
Speaker 5: test for this? And you know, I was in la
Speaker 5: I was living in a three bedroom house and to
Speaker 5: Penga Canyon with just me and Franny, you know, like
Speaker 5: never shut the front door. I was just like living
Speaker 5: like that. And I was like, wow, the possibility of
Speaker 5: coming back to New York and being on this already
Speaker 5: iconic show. So I said, yeah, I'll come out and test.
Speaker 5: And so I went and I I did a scene
Speaker 5: with Marushka, and I think that they they were like,
Speaker 5: can you can you? Can you ramp it up? You know?
Speaker 5: And I was like yeah, sure, you know, you know,
Speaker 5: and so we Dick was there and Warren was there
Speaker 5: and the whole company and and it was, you know,
Speaker 5: it was easy to act with Marushka. We had an
Speaker 5: easy time with it. And I got the call that
Speaker 5: I had it. So I packed up my whole house
Speaker 5: and you know, I was finishing up a film that
Speaker 5: that first day on set was hilarious because I I
Speaker 5: had gotten killed the night before in La doing this
Speaker 5: film by Gina Gershawan. I had like fake blood in
Speaker 5: my hair. I had to take a trailer shower, you know,
Speaker 5: like with terrible like pressure coming out of the And
Speaker 5: so I show up to set and take a red
Speaker 5: eye from LA to New York and like I'm here
Speaker 5: and I got I go to set. I do my
Speaker 5: scene with Iced Tea and he was like you do
Speaker 5: you boo? And I was like okay, great, And I
Speaker 5: rushed across town to do a bidding with the Good Wife.
Speaker 5: So it was like a whirlwind of a start.
Speaker 4: And did you know you nailed it?
Speaker 2: Like you were there with in the read with Marishka,
Speaker 2: and did you kind of leave being like we crushed it?
Speaker 5: Yeah? I think, I mean I felt great about it. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 5: But you know, it's like it's based on so many
Speaker 5: other things, you know, other than you know. I mean,
Speaker 5: there's there's a spark that happens I think that the
Speaker 5: people respond to in a test or whatever when you're
Speaker 5: going out for a role. But if there had been
Speaker 5: another girl on the show that had blonde hair with
Speaker 5: a southern accent, I probably wouldn't have gotten high, right,
Speaker 5: you know what I mean. It's just like there's so
Speaker 5: much else that goes into it. But as it was,
Speaker 5: you know, the chemistry was there, and I was ready
Speaker 5: willing and able to jump on a Dick Wolf show
Speaker 5: that had been on for over a decade already.
Speaker 2: Were was it nerve wrecking because Maloney was so beloved?
Speaker 2: Were the fans like, was that a wild time? Season thirteen?
Speaker 2: Like starting off and having the like did that? Was
Speaker 2: there pressure? Did you feel any pressure?
Speaker 5: Well? I gave all the pressure to Danny Pino. I
Speaker 5: just handed all that off. They said, Okay, it's it's
Speaker 5: yours to handle. You've done Network TV. You know, he'd
Speaker 5: been on Cold Case for years and he was the
Speaker 5: man coming in, you know, he had I felt he
Speaker 5: had all the shoes to fill. You know.
Speaker 2: Well, you mentioned in the audition that you guys ramped
Speaker 2: it up. And something that we talk a lot about
Speaker 2: the podcast is you guys, you and Murushka in particular,
Speaker 2: are so good at getting like wet eyes, like or
Speaker 2: like one little trail like it's just so impressive.
Speaker 4: And how do you guy, how do you.
Speaker 2: Personally get yourself to cry or how do you plan like,
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna let the tears drop.
Speaker 4: I'm just gonna have wet eyes.
Speaker 5: I don't plan any of that. Have you seen the show?
Speaker 5: Have you seen what it's about? Have you seen to
Speaker 5: listen to and imagine? You know, it's about such, It's
Speaker 5: about people doing the worst possible things to other people,
Speaker 5: and if you just imagine the situation being there, it's
Speaker 5: you know, it's I don't know about crying or any
Speaker 5: of that, but the emotion and and then your heart
Speaker 5: rate and like, you know, it's all there, like you
Speaker 5: have a a visceral response to it.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean I felt like in this one, specifically in
Speaker 1: Home Invasions, where you're like you're still kind of the
Speaker 1: new gal and now you have this big secret, and
Speaker 1: I you know that you really felt that like stress
Speaker 1: for me when he when Finn is like, you got
Speaker 1: to tell the captain and you're like, like you know,
Speaker 1: And I.
Speaker 5: Was just watching it and I was like, and there's
Speaker 5: a moment where he's like, you know, you got to
Speaker 5: still take care of this, and I was like yeah,
Speaker 5: and then I start to walk off and then I
Speaker 5: go Finn, and I was like, what is she gonna say? Like,
Speaker 5: what can she possibly say right now? And then Rolin
Speaker 5: just said thanks, and I was like, okay, all right,
Speaker 5: because I thought you were going to give him back
Speaker 5: talk and I'm like, girl, you got to get your
Speaker 5: ass in the in the Captain's office and come clean.
Speaker 5: I don't know what else you got to say. So yeah,
Speaker 5: that was that was crazy. And then it's time me
Speaker 5: flan again and that was just so much. It was
Speaker 5: so much fun, you know, being able to play that,
Speaker 5: and it's watching rewatching that episode. It just maybe miss
Speaker 5: Dan Florick so so so I know, I love love him.
Speaker 2: And then was the storyline with you and Finn always
Speaker 2: there or was it like your connection with Iced Tea
Speaker 2: that kind of built upon it? But you guys seemed
Speaker 2: to have like a chemistry right from the beginning.
Speaker 5: Well, you know, you mentioned I was a guest star
Speaker 5: on SVU before I got the Rollins role, and I
Speaker 5: played Kara and all of my scenes were with iced
Speaker 5: Tea in that episode. Me and him just just get along,
Speaker 5: you know what I mean. It's like it's just we, Yes,
Speaker 5: we do get along. Yes, there was always chemistry, and
Speaker 5: it's a very deep sweetness that he has that I
Speaker 5: think comes across in his relationship with Rollins and also
Speaker 5: later with other characters. But I think he he has
Speaker 5: a natural tenants to take, you know, take the young'uns
Speaker 5: under his wing a little bit without getting too much
Speaker 5: in their business, you know, just going I'm here for
Speaker 5: you, you know, like try and do the right thing. Yeah,
Speaker 5: I think it was. It was just a natural kind
Speaker 5: of division, to be honest as well, because they were
Speaker 5: seeing Danny with Marushka and me with ice you know,
Speaker 5: it's kind of a natural pair of do.
Speaker 1: You have like a favorite ice cold fact that iced
Speaker 1: Tea's ever told you?
Speaker 5: Oh, there's so many.
Speaker 1: We talked to dian neal and she was like Icedy
Speaker 1: always told me like get your own money, like make
Speaker 1: sure the checks are coming to you, sign your own checks.
Speaker 4: And I was like, that's really good advice.
Speaker 1: Well, I was wondering if there was one that sticks
Speaker 1: in your head about just with money.
Speaker 5: It makes me think of don't count the boss's money,
Speaker 5: you know, my excellent advice. You know you worry about you,
Speaker 5: you don't worry about right. And another one is life
Speaker 5: doesn't get any easier. We just get better at doing
Speaker 5: harder things. Wow, But every day you guys. You don't understand.
Speaker 5: It was every day. It was my biggest regret that
Speaker 5: I didn't write and then keep just an iced tea
Speaker 5: journal on my desk to be like.
Speaker 4: It is table book. There needs to be a table
Speaker 4: book of like iced tea quotes. It's like begging to
Speaker 4: be made.
Speaker 5: Yes, it is.
Speaker 2: And I also really loved we made a collage for
Speaker 2: your final episode last week. So I was we were
Speaker 2: going through all these photos and there's a really cute
Speaker 2: one of you and Coco and your baby and you
Speaker 2: guys like pregnant at the same time and stuff, and
Speaker 2: I just love that.
Speaker 4: It seems like you guys are all really tight.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it was. It was such a It was such
Speaker 5: a beautiful set, especially before COVID. You know, like we
Speaker 5: had kids and dogs running around, and Coco was there
Speaker 5: all the time, and like I would go hang out
Speaker 5: with her and it was it was such a beautiful,
Speaker 5: beautiful place to go to work.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Well, another thing that's beautiful.
Speaker 2: You're messy up dudes, and you're outerwear is something we
Speaker 2: talk about a lot.
Speaker 5: I can understand why I'm going to say I'm going
Speaker 5: to accept that and just be like I I know
Speaker 5: what you mean, but I appreciate the appreciation for the
Speaker 5: messy up dudes because you know it's I do. I
Speaker 5: just appreciate that that you guys noticing that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I feel like tops.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well this season, like thirteen, like when you're looking
Speaker 1: at this episode and stuff, it was just a lot
Speaker 1: of kind of like your hair down and a little
Speaker 1: bit more like playing, and then as it moves on,
Speaker 1: it's like she's getting a long, gorgeous pea code, a
Speaker 1: messy upd like just your your style was really evolving.
Speaker 1: I don't know if it was like she was making
Speaker 1: more money with the department or whatever, but the style
Speaker 1: was really evolving.
Speaker 5: Yeah, the outer the outerwear for Robins, I've got serious envy. Four.
Speaker 5: I ended up buying buying copies of few codes because
Speaker 5: I just had to. I was like, these are so great,
Speaker 5: I have to have it. And yeah, the messy up
Speaker 5: dudes were kind of I can't sit sit still for
Speaker 5: that long and hair and makeup like I was like, okay,
Speaker 5: it was over this episode, let's just throw it up. Okay.
Speaker 5: So hair makeup takes seven minutes instead of instead of
Speaker 5: like forty five, So that was kind of a product
Speaker 5: of that.
Speaker 4: Oh that makes sense, so you have something.
Speaker 5: Plus right, But she's also you know she's a cop
Speaker 5: and you know she's it's like right, it makes it
Speaker 5: makes sense that she doesn't have perfectly straight you know
Speaker 5: koit hair, Yeah, koift? Is it quoift or cock quafftf coffing.
Speaker 1: Karen's good at that. I don't know where because it's
Speaker 1: from French, but we'll wait. Speaking of fashions, we want
Speaker 1: to talk about the dress, the wedding dress. Obviously we
Speaker 1: just you know, we we got a peak of it
Speaker 1: before because you know, people release the photos and then
Speaker 1: we saw you in this dress. Did you get to
Speaker 1: have any input into this or do you just let
Speaker 1: costume people do their thing?
Speaker 5: No? Of course, of course I had input, But I said,
Speaker 5: I say the costume designer, Chris Anne. I sent her
Speaker 5: a few dresses and she was like, oh, wonderful, great,
Speaker 5: great grace. So she got them, and she also had
Speaker 5: a few that she had picked out, and I went
Speaker 5: in for the fitting and I was like, what is
Speaker 5: this And she had bought one and it was that dress.
Speaker 5: I tried it on. It was the first one I
Speaker 5: tried on, and I go, I think we found it
Speaker 5: so that because they know my style. I like the
Speaker 5: I like big sleeves and like I like the I
Speaker 5: thought it was I thought it was very fitting to
Speaker 5: have like something very plain and matt But but you know,
Speaker 5: because it's just a courthouse wedding, right something, it just
Speaker 5: seemed very rawlins to me.
Speaker 1: I like to imagine what she's going to wear to
Speaker 1: the Staten Island wedding. Yeah, you know, and that the
Speaker 1: mom's gonna, like Sara Fina CARESI is going to have
Speaker 1: more of an input and be like, there's not enough.
Speaker 4: It needs to be bigger. I want more of a veil.
Speaker 5: There's a feel, there's extra hair, there's a train.
Speaker 4: Oh god, I think there's a chocolate.
Speaker 1: I think there's a chocolate fountain of the reception. I
Speaker 1: gotta tell you so. Yeah, I mean getting should we
Speaker 1: get into this last episode that you're the final episode
Speaker 1: now that we're talking about the dress.
Speaker 5: Sure, unless you want to talk about Beverly D'Angelo, because.
Speaker 1: We're talking about we're talking on Friday.
Speaker 5: You guys are so lucky.
Speaker 4: What should we ask? Give us some tips?
Speaker 5: You should you should have her sing?
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, Casey write it down.
Speaker 4: Amazing.
Speaker 1: I mean She's like an icon to me, Like I'm
Speaker 1: obsessed with her so much.
Speaker 5: It was so fun to meet her, and I was
Speaker 5: just like this, you know, it's like wight eyed and
Speaker 5: just listening to everything she had to say. She's so
Speaker 5: brassy and and so real, but like it had so
Speaker 5: many experiences that, you know, because really I felt really
Speaker 5: lucky to get to play with her.
Speaker 4: Oh and your mom, Virginia Madsen, and that was so great.
Speaker 5: I was so pregnant when she was on the show.
Speaker 5: I had a baby shower and she was at that.
Speaker 5: She was at the baby shower, and then we had
Speaker 5: a scene in Brian Park just a little behind the scenes.
Speaker 5: I was like, my baby is about to come out,
Speaker 5: so I'm gonna have to leave set and call the
Speaker 5: doctor's I swear to god, I was like, I don't know.
Speaker 5: I I She goes, okay, well are you good for
Speaker 5: right now? And I said, yeah, I'm okay. I'm in
Speaker 5: Brian Park And her office was nearby, and she goes, well,
Speaker 5: if you're okay for right now, why don't you finish
Speaker 5: up filming? And then and I said, and then I'll
Speaker 5: come buy your office. I was like, okay, that sounds great,
Speaker 5: and I think she. I mean it was like I
Speaker 5: was like, oh my goodness, I might be having this
Speaker 5: baby very very soon because I worked until the very
Speaker 5: life second on that show.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, were both the pregnancies written in or
Speaker 2: were was there some hiding?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 4: They were both? How it is okay?
Speaker 2: And were there like funny big props you had to
Speaker 2: like do you remember any silly hiding tools or you
Speaker 2: never had to.
Speaker 5: No, I never had to hide it. Yeah, I just
Speaker 5: I the crew like they would they sent me pictures
Speaker 5: of like me napping in certain places, like I would
Speaker 5: just be played out on the grass, like in front
Speaker 5: of whatever house we were at, like you know, just
Speaker 5: catching with my big belly, just sticking up.
Speaker 1: And your character is like so wild because she's always
Speaker 1: just like put me in, like let me go in
Speaker 1: the field, and it's like you're you're eight months pregnant woman.
Speaker 5: Like exactly exactly.
Speaker 4: Cannot sit at.
Speaker 1: A desk, I guess how you can't sit in here
Speaker 1: and make up rollins. Cannot sit at a desk? Yeah,
Speaker 1: how much of you do you feel like is in
Speaker 1: this character? Speaking of that, like, do you feel like
Speaker 1: As time went on, she morphed with you more or like,
Speaker 1: what do you think?
Speaker 5: Absolutely? Yeah, I mean she we both grew up, we
Speaker 5: both became mothers, We both like it's you know, you
Speaker 5: settle in And in this last season you see her
Speaker 5: recounting what it felt like to have a gun in
Speaker 5: her face and to realize that she's not only is
Speaker 5: she missing out on Billy and Jesse growing up a
Speaker 5: little bit. For her, it's it's like putting herself in
Speaker 5: danger to what end. And for me it was like,
Speaker 5: you know, I got to see my kids, you know
Speaker 5: a lot. But it did resonate with me, you know,
Speaker 5: with like there's definitely more time, there's definitely more energy,
Speaker 5: There's definitely more things I could be doing at home.
Speaker 5: So we kind of culminated and to be at the
Speaker 5: same place, Robin's and me, so yeah, we definitely settled
Speaker 5: down together and got priorities kind of shuffled around.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like Rollin's being able to and they
Speaker 2: touched on this on that last episode, but Rollin's being
Speaker 2: able to finally like accept love into her life and
Speaker 2: was just like a beautiful journey because what was that?
Speaker 4: Was it intent?
Speaker 2: Where you went off and like had sex with the bartender?
Speaker 2: Instead of kissing Careesy and it was just like ah,
Speaker 2: it was just such a like not frustrating moment, but
Speaker 2: it was just like amazing when you find like Rollins
Speaker 2: finally let the love in.
Speaker 5: I know, I know, and I just I just celebrated
Speaker 5: my first first anniversary with with my husband bo and
Speaker 5: so and it's just like, oh my god, it's this
Speaker 5: is how it is, and this is how I can
Speaker 5: be and just so happy, so happy, and so I
Speaker 5: definitely feel, you know, on the exact same page with Rollins,
Speaker 5: where it's just like, oh, this is exactly where I'm
Speaker 5: supposed to be and look look at how how much
Speaker 5: somebody can love me and how much I can love them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, final episode were a lot of those tears kind
Speaker 2: of real and and like how was it to film
Speaker 2: with Marishka in the motel and in the office in
Speaker 2: those final days.
Speaker 5: You know that the tears in the you know, in
Speaker 5: that final scene between Rollins and Benson. I've been thinking
Speaker 5: about that because I'm getting you know, like I'm I mean,
Speaker 5: I'm just I'm getting this question a lot like was
Speaker 5: that real? Like, yeah, of course it was real, But
Speaker 5: it also seeing that episode today reinforce this idea that
Speaker 5: I had was that Ron has been in that office
Speaker 5: so many times to be like, okay, here's what I did,
Speaker 5: you know what I mean? And and for her, like
Speaker 5: I really I was really feeling through that day because
Speaker 5: she she really took the rate and and moved in
Speaker 5: a direction that she really has hope for. And you know,
Speaker 5: it's just like she she she is choosing this, she's
Speaker 5: choosing this next route. And and it's not like climbing
Speaker 5: up out of a hole. It's like going from from
Speaker 5: sea level to like the mountaintop, you know what I mean.
Speaker 5: So it's not it really felt different, you know, And
Speaker 5: like that last time she opens the door and leaves,
Speaker 5: you know, it was like okay, you know, like this
Speaker 5: is totally my journey now, you know, like I don't
Speaker 5: have to I'm not beholden to what anybody thinks of
Speaker 5: me or like my past or my history, or who's
Speaker 5: hurt me or who I've hurt, you know. So it
Speaker 5: was all of that too, in addition to you know,
Speaker 5: Ron's leaving Benson and Kelly leaving Marushka. You know, so
Speaker 5: there was there was a lot going on there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, was there part like did you guys get
Speaker 2: was there a part?
Speaker 4: Was there anything?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 5: No hangout said no party, no, no buy, no no cake,
Speaker 5: no nothing.
Speaker 1: I don't you just wanted to like slip out the
Speaker 1: back door.
Speaker 5: Yes, yes, Irish takes it because I would have lost it.
Speaker 5: I don't. I didn't want to lose it in front
Speaker 5: of everybody. I just got to say thank you to
Speaker 5: the crew, which I mean I missed more than anybody.
Speaker 5: You know. It's like those the guys that we the
Speaker 5: guys and women and men that we worked with are
Speaker 5: on that set. I mean, there's they work so hard.
Speaker 5: They work so hard, and they put in so many
Speaker 5: hours and they're they're still invested in making it story
Speaker 5: telling the story telling our telling the story that we're
Speaker 5: trying to tell, and it's just incredible their dedication and
Speaker 5: and the quality of work that they put in. And
Speaker 5: so to be able to say thank you that was
Speaker 5: very important to me. But not not having a cake, like, oh,
Speaker 5: thanks for twelve years. Here to your cake. Yeah, I
Speaker 5: didn't want to do that.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 1: We've interviewed like a hundred plus guests from the show
Speaker 1: or people that have been on the show, and like
Speaker 1: every person talks about how amazing the crew is how amazing,
Speaker 1: like everything is on the set, so I could see
Speaker 1: that being Yeah, it's like hard to leave.
Speaker 2: Were you able to like feel the love from all
Speaker 2: the fans and like be able to see the messages
Speaker 2: and the outpouring of them that yeah.
Speaker 5: My gosh, Yeah, it was crazy. It was intense. You know,
Speaker 5: I was like, wow, guys, you know, like this this
Speaker 5: feels good. Thanks, thank you very very very very very much.
Speaker 5: You know, the interactions with the fans that's still you know,
Speaker 5: blow me away the most. Or I know me and
Speaker 5: the show are reaching people because I you know, like
Speaker 5: you're walking down the street and it's like somebody comes
Speaker 5: up to you and they're like, thank you so much.
Speaker 5: You helped me through this. You're helping me through this,
Speaker 5: or the show is helping and you know, you're like, oh,
Speaker 5: that's that's fucking awesome, you know what I mean, Like
Speaker 5: I'm so happy that there's relief or you feel seen
Speaker 5: or me portraying this character has made you laugh or
Speaker 5: like giving you hope or you know, made you optimistic
Speaker 5: about your own future.
Speaker 2: So have you had any silly fan interactions on the
Speaker 2: streets of New York or any streets as anyone ever
Speaker 2: thought that maybe you were still.
Speaker 4: The character and got mad at you in the world.
Speaker 5: Oh oh yeah, I was in a casino. I was
Speaker 5: in a casino once and they were like, what are
Speaker 5: you doing here? You can't be in a casino, Rawlins,
Speaker 5: you can't do that, Like, no, no.
Speaker 4: That's amazing. That is so funny.
Speaker 1: Not the one with gambling problem, Hi, Kelly, do not
Speaker 1: have a gambling problem, but thank you for your concern.
Speaker 4: That is so funny.
Speaker 1: Do you like we were you were talking about at
Speaker 1: the beginning, like how the show is It's not that
Speaker 1: hard for you to get tears going because the show
Speaker 1: is so packed with like trauma and drama and things
Speaker 1: like that. Do you have any episodes that like really
Speaker 1: sort of stuck with you, like the subject matter or
Speaker 1: like anything where you were like it was like hard
Speaker 1: to shake it haunting. We like to ask for your
Speaker 1: most favorite anything episode.
Speaker 4: That really never leave you.
Speaker 1: We have because I have a few episodes of the
Speaker 1: show that are just like stuck in my head forever,
Speaker 1: as like horrible, like scary episodes and like I was
Speaker 1: just wondering. But you're on step so it's a different feeling,
Speaker 1: I'm sure.
Speaker 5: But yeah, I mean the Henry the psychopath, the psychopathic kid.
Speaker 5: That was really disturbing to me. And I remember like
Speaker 5: I was doing a scene with Sherry Song, who was
Speaker 5: pregnant in real life with twins. She was kind of
Speaker 5: playing the bad guy and I had to hold a
Speaker 5: gun up to her and I hated it. It was
Speaker 5: all fake and all that, but it's still I like,
Speaker 5: it didn't feel right. It didn't feel right when I
Speaker 5: when I stopped doing it, and it didn't feel right
Speaker 5: when I went home, and it was still just bothering me.
Speaker 5: So it wasn't like a subject matter thing, but it was.
Speaker 5: It was a night where I was just like I
Speaker 5: I am, I can't shake shake the scene, you know.
Speaker 5: That was that was a very rare instance where I couldn't.
Speaker 5: I couldn't leave it at work because I'm very good
Speaker 5: at leaving it at work.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that storyline, that whole under and with Declin and stuff,
Speaker 2: that was great.
Speaker 4: You you had such.
Speaker 2: Amazing stories and it's just been a pleasure to watch.
Speaker 5: Well, thank you.
Speaker 2: Is there any scoop or fun stuff you would love
Speaker 2: to enlighten us or the fans with, like things that
Speaker 2: we would love to know about the show or anything.
Speaker 1: Little inside jokes on the set.
Speaker 5: Like the chipmunk. The chipmunk on Rollin's desk. Okay, I
Speaker 5: don't know if you guys ever noticed it. There's a
Speaker 5: chipmunk on Rollin's desk that I asked for them to
Speaker 5: get like a taxi dermid because my dad, who has
Speaker 5: always had a big, beautiful garden in Georgia, like the
Speaker 5: chipmunks would really destroy his stuff, so he would he
Speaker 5: would get rid of them by shooting them. And so
Speaker 5: I got that to like remind me of my dad,
Speaker 5: and I asked Ice. I was like, I need a
Speaker 5: name for this chipmunk, and he goes, it's DC, and
Speaker 5: I go, oh, cool, d C. What is that? He
Speaker 5: was like dead chipmunk.
Speaker 4: Okay, that's good.
Speaker 5: And they would also they would also like dress him up,
Speaker 5: like the camera department. Emily from the camera department, she
Speaker 5: was like, if it was Easter, like the chipmunk, you
Speaker 5: would see it have like a basket of eggs and
Speaker 5: like an easter hat.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, that's like a great little Easter egg.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I've never noticed.
Speaker 4: That's so cute.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Are you going on vacation?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 2: What what's the next part for you? France for a year.
Speaker 2: Are you gonna's playing in.
Speaker 1: New York coming out back out to La?
Speaker 4: What's the vibe?
Speaker 5: I I'm staying in New York for right now. And
Speaker 5: you know, I'm it's like so not exciting. I'm like
Speaker 5: getting to go to the doctor and like getting my
Speaker 5: like painting my nails and like putting weird stickers on them,
Speaker 5: which I could never do as a detective. So I'm
Speaker 5: doing it like just being a girl in that sense.
Speaker 5: And I'm working out and just spending time with my
Speaker 5: kids doing nothing and it's just such a nice time
Speaker 5: to to to be off of work, you know, December
Speaker 5: and the holidays and yeah, it's everything's cozy at home
Speaker 5: and it's just a it's a beautiful time.
Speaker 1: So do you have like future roles that you like
Speaker 1: have your eye on, Like what is your next thing
Speaker 1: you'd rather not be something like on a procedural or
Speaker 1: you'd like to like keep going with that, or you're
Speaker 1: just open and whatever happens happens.
Speaker 5: Yeah, we'll see, we'll see. I'm not I mean, I'm
Speaker 5: I'm definitely not closing the doors on anything. You know,
Speaker 5: I've I've enjoyed playing a cop I've you know, I
Speaker 5: love I love being in New York. I have my
Speaker 5: life here, and I'm you know, there's so many things
Speaker 5: happening in my personal life that I'm just so happy
Speaker 5: and excited to to experience. You know that that work
Speaker 5: is is awesome, But it's not like what.
Speaker 1: I'm yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm not there, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I was hoping you were. Yeah, you were
Speaker 2: just gonna chill and enjoy time, life, relaxing.
Speaker 5: I'm really good at doing that because I just don't
Speaker 5: get bored. It's just not not possible for me. Like
Speaker 5: I have a have a bead loom going downstairs, my
Speaker 5: guitar is out, there's paintings happening. Yes, you know, it's
Speaker 5: like it's like the kids are It's it's so fun
Speaker 5: doing all that stuff with the kids.
Speaker 2: So we're just so happy you agreed to do this.
Speaker 2: We really oh good, thank you so much for taking
Speaker 2: the time.
Speaker 4: We really appreciate that.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, any final things.
Speaker 5: No, I just you know, like this past like this
Speaker 5: past six months, you know, like since the fans found
Speaker 5: out Rollin's was leaving, I've just I've really been blown
Speaker 5: away by all the response and all the collages and
Speaker 5: all that, like because I'm so not good at doing
Speaker 5: that stuff. So to see all the fans like they're
Speaker 5: so talented doing all that. But all the support and
Speaker 5: all the all the love you know that I've I've
Speaker 5: gotten from from all the fans has been It's been
Speaker 5: really it feels really nice.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's been incredible to watch.
Speaker 1: Yeah, people really connect with your character and you really
Speaker 1: created somebody that people identify with.
Speaker 2: So yeah, that your mistakes don't define you and yeah.
Speaker 5: That's it, that's it. That's a great. Yeah. People have
Speaker 5: asked me, like, you know during interviews, like what do
Speaker 5: you what do you want Rollin's legacy to be? That's
Speaker 5: a good one. I like how you just put that?
Speaker 1: Thanks thanks for coming you Kelly.
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: Well wow, she's so zen, but I am happy we
Speaker 1: made her laugh a couple of times. It's so fun
Speaker 1: to talk to her and wow, like I just cannot believe,
Speaker 1: like we got her and I'm so excited we got
Speaker 1: to talk to her and.
Speaker 2: Well I set it up top like it truly felt
Speaker 2: like we were like Diane Sawyer. I'm like, how did
Speaker 2: we get exclusive? Like how did she agree to do
Speaker 2: this podcast? So for those you know, we are always
Speaker 2: in a time machine. Her last episode was like on
Speaker 2: a Thursday, and we interviewed her that Monday, like from
Speaker 2: the last episode airing, we spoke to her four days later,
Speaker 2: like that is unheard of. That was just like a
Speaker 2: surprise and an excitement and it was It just felt
Speaker 2: really cool and also kind of her to do that,
Speaker 2: because I'm sure it's like emotional to leave a job
Speaker 2: after twelve years.
Speaker 4: That wasn't fully her choice, and.
Speaker 2: It's cool that she gave us that time because there
Speaker 2: could be lots of other things.
Speaker 4: I don't know, and she's so.
Speaker 1: Like busy, I'm sure and watched the episode before she
Speaker 1: talked to us, which like we get much less busy
Speaker 1: people that are like, oh, I haven't seen that in
Speaker 1: twenty years, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: Like yeah, but I do love that she was able
Speaker 2: to feel the love from all the fans, and like
Speaker 2: I also loved that she was like, no, I gave
Speaker 2: the pressure to Danny Pino.
Speaker 4: I didn't need that. Yeah, life like that was so funny.
Speaker 1: Well, I think she fully turned us both around too.
Speaker 1: When this podcast started, we were both like, eh Rollin's like,
Speaker 1: you know, typical roll and stuff. But like in the
Speaker 1: current episodes too, it's been like fun to watch her
Speaker 1: really grow and.
Speaker 2: Well, they fucked with us because she did really or
Speaker 2: like awful No, that she did really terrible things and
Speaker 2: made and made really bad choices. But then you see
Speaker 2: her history of like abuse and her family's mental illness
Speaker 2: issues and there and her boss assulting her. There was
Speaker 2: just like so much yeah, that she was going through
Speaker 2: and putting aside, and that's why she was defending bad
Speaker 2: men and that's why she had addictions and like the
Speaker 2: relationship with her sister and wanting to help people, like
Speaker 2: you know, the you got to grow with her, learn
Speaker 2: about her and know her deeper, and it might be
Speaker 2: a less and all of us that if someone makes
Speaker 2: a mistake or acts a certain way or does something
Speaker 2: fucked up, maybe you don't have to do what they're toxic.
Speaker 2: I'm not trying to give people bad advice, but like
Speaker 2: there's more change your journey and we can give people,
Speaker 2: you know, because Captain Craigan here could have said fuck.
Speaker 4: Off, you're fired.
Speaker 1: That could have been like, I mean, that could have
Speaker 1: been a perfect example of like somebody who's on the
Speaker 1: show for ten episodes and then it's like it's not
Speaker 1: working out, like you gambled, like you're.
Speaker 4: A dirty cop, goodbye or whatever, and and she comes back.
Speaker 2: Because what's funny is we were getting ready to interview her,
Speaker 2: so I was watching like Home Invasions on my laptop,
Speaker 2: but I had other Rollin's episodes playing on the TV,
Speaker 2: and there was the season fifteen gambling issues, and so
Speaker 2: I was getting confused.
Speaker 4: Over which one was which. But it's like she went.
Speaker 2: Back into it, you know, yes, But then and she's
Speaker 2: gone to make out with more people than I think
Speaker 2: anyone else on the show. We dove a little into
Speaker 2: the flirting and the smoothies, but like she made out
Speaker 2: with rapists, anonymous guy made out with Amorro Careesi, the
Speaker 2: bartender from the South. Yeah, there's gotta be more. Is
Speaker 2: it a just four now?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 1: I'm like, maybe we've only seen more boyfriends for live
Speaker 1: but really.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but she I don't always make out or no,
Speaker 2: were You're right? We saw him to make out with
Speaker 2: Henry Connick Junior and stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that but that was a awesome interview. The episode
Speaker 1: was whoo a lot. I mean, I guess what's our
Speaker 1: what's our post mortem takeaway, don't pressure your kids too
Speaker 1: much or they're.
Speaker 4: Gonna fucking kill you. I don't know.
Speaker 2: Uh, like, well listen, like don't like stop Like, children
Speaker 2: are people and you can't just make them what you
Speaker 2: want them to be.
Speaker 4: You have to accept them for who they.
Speaker 2: Are and guide or maybe like like be bumpers of
Speaker 2: the bowling Alley of life.
Speaker 4: But you can't. You can't. Fucking no.
Speaker 1: I want Rosie to be a mid level advertising executive,
Speaker 1: and that's it. That's what she's doing. That's my dream,
Speaker 1: that's what she's gonna do. I'm forcing it.
Speaker 2: You know, and I always you know, I talk about
Speaker 2: my sister positively a lot, but I do like that
Speaker 2: each of her kids gets to be who they are
Speaker 2: in their own journey. And she's like one is an
Speaker 2: academic superstar, the other could care less and they're able
Speaker 2: to do that. You know, one's not being forced to
Speaker 2: get a's if that's not the vibe.
Speaker 4: Yes, it's just rare.
Speaker 2: And it's not the parents fault, like obviously, who knows
Speaker 2: that they were raising the sociopath who was gonna you know,
Speaker 2: get them killed, right, But it's like the pressure, the
Speaker 2: this you have to be even if even you have
Speaker 2: to be straight or do this religion or dressed like
Speaker 2: this or do that or look like it's like, don't
Speaker 2: have kids if you need them to be a certain
Speaker 2: way for them to get.
Speaker 1: Your respect, and don't have kids if you feel like
Speaker 1: when they confess something to you're just not gonna believe them,
Speaker 1: Like I can't believe the mother in the episode from
Speaker 1: Home Invasions, Like it makes me feel like maybe it's
Speaker 1: okay that they blew you away, Like your what your
Speaker 1: daughter came to you and told you that her dad
Speaker 1: was molesting her and you just didn't believe her because
Speaker 1: you were like busy with your affair, Like why would
Speaker 1: you not believe her? Your husband's a piece of shit.
Speaker 1: You don't even like him. You could tell from the
Speaker 1: first episode, from the first minute of the episode.
Speaker 2: I mean, and through our research, we know that this
Speaker 2: happens a lot in real life, Like, but yeah, believe
Speaker 2: your fucking kids.
Speaker 4: Yeah you think it's you think think about how.
Speaker 2: Much courage it takes to like go to a parent
Speaker 2: and say your fucking life partner that you decided to
Speaker 2: be with is molesting me, Like yeah, yeah, what a
Speaker 2: courageous k It just it sucks that she got caught.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but like I said, they're definitely she They're gonna
Speaker 1: get her off her good lawyers are gonna get her off.
Speaker 2: I don't want the brother sister back in. I don't
Speaker 2: want any of them in jail. Those parents.
Speaker 1: Fuck not a Lada though she's so funny on Orange
Speaker 1: is a New Black.
Speaker 4: Maybe that's what she's in there for, Okay, trying to
Speaker 4: think of more Kelly.
Speaker 2: I love that, Like when she speaks about iced tea,
Speaker 2: it's like.
Speaker 4: True love, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like they did really should seem like a real
Speaker 2: great job to have. And congrats on twelve V. I
Speaker 2: don't know if we told her like congrats on twelve.
Speaker 1: I know I would like a fan of wedding, But
Speaker 1: congrats on twelve years of being on a fucking hit
Speaker 1: show and developing this character that people are so attached to. Well,
Speaker 1: let's uh move on to our what would Sister Peg
Speaker 1: do for this week, which is our weekly SEGMENTA.
Speaker 2: I have one more thing to say, I do I
Speaker 2: you know what else I've learned? Big bandages around ahead,
Speaker 2: I'll never get sick of it. Please more bandages on, more, more.
Speaker 4: All the way around.
Speaker 1: Bandages Please Lisa needs them. Now you're gonna have like
Speaker 1: a nurse bring you one at one of our next
Speaker 1: live shows. You're gonna have to wear it all right,
Speaker 1: Let's move into our what would Sister Peg Do?
Speaker 4: Segment?
Speaker 1: This is our weekly segment where we point you guys
Speaker 1: to an organization, a book, a link, something that's gonna
Speaker 1: help you learn more about what we talked about in
Speaker 1: today's episode. And we thought, if you were more interested
Speaker 1: in the Jennifer Pans story, there is a book called
Speaker 1: A Daughter's Deadly Deception The Jennifer Panstory by Jeremy Grimaldi.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of info in this case. In this
Speaker 1: book gives you a deeper dive into it, and he
Speaker 1: heavily researched this while it was happening. So if you're interested,
Speaker 1: the link is in our bio and I will also
Speaker 1: be in a story on the day this comes out
Speaker 1: and saved forever in our stories highlight called WWSPD on Instagram.
Speaker 4: Sorry if I didn't say Instagram, Thank you so much.
Speaker 2: Also follow us on Instagram, but also we're giving you
Speaker 2: a hard hitting interviews, amazing episodes. Give us a five
Speaker 2: star review, write a nice little thing, Get those reviews going.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we need to counter the one star reviews that
Speaker 1: say that like we name drop too much and that
Speaker 1: Lisa hates me. You know, give us a fiver just
Speaker 1: if you can, if you haven't had a chance.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just all engagement helps us see people, and
Speaker 2: I feel like we're pretty chill. We don't promote too
Speaker 2: much of anything. But please, you know, when you're up there,
Speaker 2: give us a five star, even if you don't have
Speaker 2: time to write a review. We would really appreciate some
Speaker 2: more stars or four stars. If you have some complaints, Okay,
Speaker 2: I'm not you know, I'm not gonna be picky, but
Speaker 2: if it's less than that, don't go on there. Bit
Speaker 2: to yourself, tell a friend. But next week we will
Speaker 2: be doing the episode Tangled Strands of Justice. That is
Speaker 2: season twenty three, episode nineteen, and we cannot wait to
Speaker 2: give you more and more and more.
Speaker 4: Thank you so much.
Speaker 2: That's Messed Up as an exactly right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email.
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Speaker 2: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod,
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Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
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Speaker 2: Thank you so much to our producer Kacy O'Brien, and
Speaker 2: to our.
Speaker 1: Mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cottner, and.
Speaker 2: To Henry Kaperski for our theme song and Carly Jean
Speaker 2: Andrews for our artwork.
Speaker 1: Thank you to our executive producers Georgia hard Start, Karen Kilgarriff,
Speaker 1: Daniel Kramer, and everybody at Exactly Right Media.
Speaker 4: Dun Dun