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Speaker 1: Good morning, Peepsen. Welcome to wok F Daily with Meet

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Speaker 1: Your Girl Daniel Moody, recording from the Home Bunker. Folks,

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Speaker 1: I'm excited about today's conversation and interview with Gina Ortiz Jones,

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Speaker 1: who is the founder of the find Out Pack. The

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Speaker 1: find Out Pack is exactly what you think it is,

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Speaker 1: fuck around and find out. This pack is dedicated to

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Speaker 1: going after the three Texas Supreme Court Justices Jimmy, John,

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Speaker 1: and Jane who have come for the reproductive rights of

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Speaker 1: women and people with uteruses inside of the state of Texas.

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Speaker 1: And you know, I think that what strikes me so

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Speaker 1: much in the conversation with Gina is that in order

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Speaker 1: for us to win, we really truly need to understand

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Speaker 1: where the power actually lies, right and so for far

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Speaker 1: too long we have believed as Democrats that the power

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Speaker 1: lied in the executive branch, in the presidency, and so

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Speaker 1: we pay attention every four years, and in between that

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Speaker 1: time we go back to business as usual. Well, what

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Speaker 1: we've been able to truly grasp over the last eight

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Speaker 1: or so years under trumpsm is that that is not

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Speaker 1: where power lies actually, and that power lies in the courts,

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Speaker 1: power lies in the election of attorney generals and district

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Speaker 1: attorneys and ultimately the appointment of judges. Right because what

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Speaker 1: we know about Congress, for instance, is that their wheels

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Speaker 1: turn incredibly fucking slow, and that most of our rights

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Speaker 1: that we are still hanging onto were one in court battles.

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Speaker 1: So then why wouldn't our attention be directed at the

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Speaker 1: very courts that decide our fates. So I love this

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Speaker 1: conversation with Gina because the find Out Pack is very

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Speaker 1: clear about who they are targeting, how they are targeting,

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Speaker 1: and are going full throttle. And that is what I

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Speaker 1: want people to be doing, state by state, right, district

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Speaker 1: by district, or Steve Bannon said, village by village, flood

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Speaker 1: the zone right, going after these seats of power that

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Speaker 1: have long been held by Republicans without objection. And now

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Speaker 1: that we know that they are not to be trusted.

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Speaker 1: Right now that we know and they make no you know,

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Speaker 1: mix up of their intentions for this country, it's time

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Speaker 1: that we understand how power works. So coming up next,

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Speaker 1: my conversation with Gina Ortiz Jones, Folks, I am very

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Speaker 1: excited to welcome to wok F Daily Gina Ortiz Jones,

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Speaker 1: who is the founder of the find Out Political Action Committee,

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Speaker 1: and served during the Biden administration as Undersecretary of the

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Speaker 1: Air Force from July twenty twenty one to March twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty three. Gina, I want to start with the fact

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Speaker 1: that a couple of weeks ago we saw a horrific

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Speaker 1: report GRAB headlines that since the overturning of Roe v. Wade,

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Speaker 1: there has been sixty thousand plus rape based pregnancies in

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Speaker 1: the fourteen states that have denied abortion, even in the

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Speaker 1: case of rape, in the case of incest, in the

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Speaker 1: case of fetal abnormalities and non viability. I wanted to

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Speaker 1: get your thoughts on that astounding number and the ramifications

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Speaker 1: thereof that we've seen in such a short time of

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Speaker 1: the overturning of Roe v. Wade.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, and thanks again for having me on. I

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Speaker 2: think you know that number in and of itself is

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Speaker 2: astounding when you think of the fourteen states, and as

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Speaker 2: you mentioned, the sixty thousand rape related pregnancies. But let's

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Speaker 2: be very clear, twenty six thousand of those, just over

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Speaker 2: twenty six thousand of those are in Texas alone, right,

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Speaker 2: and so we are disproportionately impacted by this, just given

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Speaker 2: the sheer size of our state. One in ten kids

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Speaker 2: in this country calls Texas home. And you know, the

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Speaker 2: reason I really wanted to, you know, start this pack

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Speaker 2: is in part based on what the Texas Supreme Court

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Speaker 2: just decided, but also understanding that, look, you know, ascoes Texas,

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Speaker 2: so goes this country. Right. Texas traditionally been kind of

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Speaker 2: training ground, a greeting ground, if you will, for some

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Speaker 2: of the more extremest policies that are exten exported to

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Speaker 2: other parts of the country. And so I think it's

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Speaker 2: always really important to aggregate the data and truly understand.

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Speaker 2: I mean that just one of the states is responsible

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Speaker 2: for almost half of these in light of as you mentioned,

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Speaker 2: you know, they're not not being any exceptions in the state,

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Speaker 2: for with exception of the metal, which now is even

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Speaker 2: in debate given the Texas Supreme Court's decision in December,

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Speaker 2: you know.

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Speaker 1: And it's wild because you know, Governor Greg Abbott, he

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Speaker 1: told us that he was going to eliminate all rapes.

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Speaker 1: So I'm surprised that it hasn't happened, and that these

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Speaker 1: numbers are just off the charts. I think what gets

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Speaker 1: me about, in particular, the state of Texas is not

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Speaker 1: even how draconian the policies are, but that, like you said,

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Speaker 1: it is a petri dish for how they want to

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Speaker 1: nationalize these types of laws. And when you look at

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Speaker 1: the case of and I want to of Kate Cox,

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Speaker 1: and Kate Cox, you know, making national headlines when she

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Speaker 1: went to go seek an abortion because she had a

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Speaker 1: non viable pregnancy, this fetus not going to make it,

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Speaker 1: and a panel of judges told her no, right, And

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Speaker 1: I just want to get your reactions to some of

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Speaker 1: the stories. We've heard women testify before Congress, we've heard

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Speaker 1: them in press conferences, and yet for these you know,

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Speaker 1: largely white male bodies, whether it is the Missouri you know, Senate,

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Speaker 1: whether it is the Texas governor, nothing seems to penetrate.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think. So let me just back up a

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Speaker 2: little bit and how this how this started for me? So, yes,

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Speaker 2: it was December of last year, and I remember reading

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Speaker 2: as the country was about the about Kate Cox's case

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Speaker 2: and I and I obviously also was astounded by the

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Speaker 2: decision to deny deny her access to this abortion for

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Speaker 2: the medical exception. So I took the time to actually

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Speaker 2: read the seven page Texas Supreme Court ruling, and essentially

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Speaker 2: what they said is that this woman was not close

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Speaker 2: enough to losing either her life or losing her fertility

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Speaker 2: to qualify for the exception. So obviously I had a

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Speaker 2: very visceral reaction to that because it just it raises

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Speaker 2: some very basic questions, right, which is one, Okay, well,

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Speaker 2: how close is close enough? We talk in hours, we

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Speaker 2: talk in minutes. But also, who are y'all you know

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Speaker 2: these partisan judges? And we are one of the few

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Speaker 2: states where we actually elect our judges and justices to

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Speaker 2: include the Texas Supreme Court, through partisan elections, And so

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Speaker 2: who are you, these partisan justices to say that you

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Speaker 2: know better than her doctor, much less anyone else's doctor.

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Speaker 2: And then for me, the last question was, all right, well,

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Speaker 2: how do we get this better? Because this is not right?

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Speaker 2: And in looking at the the nine justices, they are

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Speaker 2: all Republican. They run as statewide folks, statewide candidates. These

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Speaker 2: folks are elected, which means they can be unelected, Danielle,

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Speaker 2: And that is what we are, that is what we're

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Speaker 2: working to do. I think, you know, we're very encouraged.

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Speaker 2: This is the first time ever, this is the first

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Speaker 2: time ever that we have tried to change the makeup

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Speaker 2: of the Texas Supreme Court. These folks that have never

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Speaker 2: had kind of this type of focus and attention that

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Speaker 2: they will come twenty twenty four due to find out.

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Speaker 2: Pack Secondly, we are encouraged also by what we are

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Speaker 2: seeing in states like Kansas and Kentucky, you know, states

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Speaker 2: that have very similar political compositions, if you will, to

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Speaker 2: our own state. And even in those states, when the

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Speaker 2: issue was put before voters, voters overwhelmingly voted to protect

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Speaker 2: reproductive freedoms. And so our ballot initiative is a little

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Speaker 2: bit different in that we are going to hold Jimmy,

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Speaker 2: John and Jane accountable. That's actually their names, just Jimmy Blacklock,

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Speaker 2: John Devine, and Jane Bland accountable for the ways in

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Speaker 2: which they have made it more dangerous to be a

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Speaker 2: woman in Texas and by the reproductive freedoms of so

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Speaker 2: many women. And then lastly, let me just say, I know,

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Speaker 2: you know, I know folks are like they hear these

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Speaker 2: stories coming out of Texas, but let's be very clear,

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Speaker 2: there is a difference between where these partisan justices are

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Speaker 2: on this issue and where Texans are on this issue.

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Speaker 2: So in February of twenty twenty three, there was a

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Speaker 2: survey that was published by Survey Results Rather that was

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Speaker 2: published by the University of Houston, the Hobby School of

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Speaker 2: Public Affairs, and in that the results eighty two percent

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Speaker 2: of Texans survey support medical exceptions. I mean, it's not

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Speaker 2: even close, right, And so I think when we put

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Speaker 2: this and talk about this as a valid initiative, this is,

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Speaker 2: you know, for folks that are pissed off or how

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Speaker 2: these women have been treated, this is their opportunity to

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Speaker 2: have their voice heard. And it starts with flipping those

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Speaker 2: seats Jimmy John and Jane and you know, if i'm

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Speaker 2: I also, I think it's really important. So it's the

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Speaker 2: issue itself. But as I was also looking into the

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Speaker 2: backgrounds of these folks, Danielle, Yeah, they're just not fit.

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Speaker 2: They're just not fit for the Texas Supreme Court. I think,

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Speaker 2: you know, you and I grew up probably with the

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Speaker 2: same visual of justice, which is a woman in a

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Speaker 2: rowe blindfolded, holding the scale right, impartial, and it's about

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Speaker 2: the facts, and that's just not what we have on

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Speaker 2: the Texas Supreme Court, let alone in Jimmy John and

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Speaker 2: Jane and I say their names just to be clear

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Speaker 2: for folks that they say their names, because these are

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Speaker 2: the three that are on the ballot in November twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty four. So let me give you a snippet of

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Speaker 2: these folks. In twenty eighteen, at a Texas rally for Life,

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Speaker 2: Governor Abbott said about John Divine, quote, I don't have

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Speaker 2: to guests or wonder how just Blacklock is going to

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Speaker 2: decide cases because of his proven record of fighting for

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Speaker 2: pro life causes. Right, that's one John Divine. This guy's

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Speaker 2: real special. This guy has campaigned, campaigned on his own

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Speaker 2: wife's tyris pregnancy. He's campaigned on being arrested dozens of

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Speaker 2: times for protesting in front of abortion clinics. And then

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Speaker 2: Jane Bland, she wrote an opinion in a separate case

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Speaker 2: where the Texas Supreme Court ruled that anti abortion groups

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Speaker 2: could not be held liable for defamation for equating abortion

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Speaker 2: to murder. So can you, I mean, just like you,

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Speaker 2: try to put yourself in the shoes of these women

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Speaker 2: that are going through the justice system and in good

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Speaker 2: faith trying to seek justice through by the way, on

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Speaker 2: top of this very traumatic experience that they have already

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Speaker 2: personally experienced, they are their family members, and then they

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Speaker 2: go through the court system, and then they find out

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Speaker 2: that these three among the others are the ones that

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Speaker 2: are going to hear their case. Like that doesn't instill

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Speaker 2: any level of confidence in terms of impartiality or them

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Speaker 2: even having a fair share a justice here. Right, So

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Speaker 2: I think we've got a real opportunity. These folks run

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Speaker 2: statewide and again encouraged by one where Texans are on

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Speaker 2: the issue, but also what we've seen in other states.

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Speaker 1: Let me ask you this, Cina, and I appreciate you

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Speaker 1: providing the background, because I think that it is really

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Speaker 1: important for people to understand who these justices are, right,

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Speaker 1: and the fact that you could bring any case before them,

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Speaker 1: but given that they've already decided that's right. Right, So

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Speaker 1: it doesn't matter what facts you present, it doesn't matter

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Speaker 1: what precedent you present. They've already decided how the case

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Speaker 1: is going to be ruled, given their own backgrounds and

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Speaker 1: given their own prejudices. Right. This is what it means

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Speaker 1: to have activist judges. They use that term on those

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Speaker 1: that are progressive, but this is what it means to

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Speaker 1: be an activist judge. That you don't listen to cases

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Speaker 1: that you decide them based on whatever the Bible right

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Speaker 1: tells you to decide on. And I wonder, you know,

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Speaker 1: for eu GENA, Texas in a lot of ways, I

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Speaker 1: think has not received the kind of investment that it

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Speaker 1: needs from the Democratic Party, and that we have seeded

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Speaker 1: these red states and said well, there's nothing we can

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Speaker 1: do here, right, And because of our lack of investment,

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Speaker 1: they have become a breeding ground and fertile ground to

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Speaker 1: forward these draconian style policies. And so I wonder where

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Speaker 1: you think that the Democratic Party as a whole as

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Speaker 1: we head into the twenty twenty four presidential election, as

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Speaker 1: these people are going to be on the ballot, what

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Speaker 1: responsibility the party has in creating the apparatus that needed

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Speaker 1: and necessary and well funded in order in order to

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Speaker 1: turn a state like Texas around.

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Speaker 2: I think, well, so there's a lot there. Let me

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Speaker 2: start off with a couple of points. One and let

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Speaker 2: me also just I should have said this at the

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Speaker 2: very beginning, but for folks that are listening and are

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Speaker 2: trying to figure out where find out pac comes from,

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Speaker 2: it does come from the very scientific concept of f

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Speaker 2: around and find out right. And that's I said earlier.

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Speaker 2: I had a visual reaction to reading that seven page opinion,

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Speaker 2: and that was honestly my very first reaction, which is

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Speaker 2: this is this is ridiculous. So that's where the name

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Speaker 2: comes from. But I think to your point, you know

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Speaker 2: this is this is not a partisan issue, and I know,

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Speaker 2: I know we're kind of couching it that way as

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Speaker 2: we head into twenty twenty four. But like being able

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Speaker 2: to listen to your doctor and being able to make

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Speaker 2: decisions about your your own fertility, being able to make

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Speaker 2: decisions about about your own about the ability to save

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Speaker 2: your own life, none of that stuff is partisan. Even

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Speaker 2: though the two parties are are in very different camps

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Speaker 2: on this doesn't make it inherently a partisan issue, right.

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Speaker 2: I mean that probably speaks more to the values of

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Speaker 2: the parties themselves. And you know, we have deliberately talked

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Speaker 2: about this issue, frankly on the merits of the issue,

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Speaker 2: because it is the way I think in which we

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Speaker 2: reach the most people. Again, eighty two percent of folks,

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Speaker 2: eighty two percent of Texans support medical exceptions. I mean

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Speaker 2: that's a I don't think there's a lot of things

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Speaker 2: that eighty two percent of Texans agree on, but talking

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Speaker 2: about the issue. I think is also the way in

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Speaker 2: which we are able to one show the contrast and

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Speaker 2: and when we are talking about engaging kind of young

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Speaker 2: folks in particular, I think we see that, you know,

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Speaker 2: data shows that they're more motivated by the issue than

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Speaker 2: they are by political party or ideology. And so you know,

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Speaker 2: let's be very clear. And that's why you know, for

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Speaker 2: folks that haven't seen the video yet our launch chat,

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Speaker 2: please going to find out pack dot com. And we

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Speaker 2: are very clear about what is at stake here and

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Speaker 2: why this is so important, right and would welcome folks

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Speaker 2: to support. I think the more we can talk about

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Speaker 2: what is at stake here and less about party and

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Speaker 2: less about ideology, I think will be more will be

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Speaker 2: more successful should we And I think what we are

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Speaker 2: also encouraged by, you know, there's some potential for some

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Speaker 2: reverse coattails here to your point. You know, I think

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Speaker 2: we're all uh, you know, kind of reading reading articles

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Speaker 2: about kind of black enthusiasm at the at the top

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Speaker 2: of the ticket. So look, it's all hands on deck,

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Speaker 2: right to make sure that we've got leaders up and down,

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Speaker 2: up and down the ballot they're going to fight for

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Speaker 2: reproductive freedoms and frankly not be a threat to democracy.

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Speaker 2: So I think you're but you're absolutely right. All that

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Speaker 2: takes investment, and so I think by being creative, thinking

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Speaker 2: outside of the box, you know, hope to attract that

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Speaker 2: investment here in Texas, because again, one intent kid, like

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Speaker 2: one intent kids in this country, calls Texas home. You

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Speaker 2: cannot write off ten percent of our ten percent of

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Speaker 2: our future.

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Speaker 1: I wonder too, you know. You you mentioned the lack

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Speaker 1: of enthusiasm right that we are hearing about, right, and

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Speaker 1: a part of me knows that it is one exasperated

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Speaker 1: by media in order to gain clicks and audience and

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Speaker 1: all of these things, and to turn this election, upcoming

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Speaker 1: election into a horse race, devoid of the seriousness of

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Speaker 1: what is at stake. But two, you know President Biden,

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Speaker 1: while he has made abortion a campaign issue, right and

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Speaker 1: an important one, he said recently that I'm a Catholic

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Speaker 1: and don't think that abortion should be used, you know,

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Speaker 1: it should be used, you know, regularly. But I think

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Speaker 1: that the reversal of Rob Wade was wrong. I'm paraphrasing,

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Speaker 1: but he said that, and you know, abortion rights activists

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Speaker 1: are completely dismayed by it, and I wanted to get

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Speaker 1: your reactions from that statement and how it land.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think look, I think keeping this

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Speaker 2: focused on what this is ultimately about, right, which is

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Speaker 2: can you truly be, you know, a free person in

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Speaker 2: this country if you cannot make decisions about your own body.

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Speaker 2: Let's let's keep it super simple, right, And I think

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Speaker 2: the more simple that we keep it and show the

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Speaker 2: contrast between where leaders are on this issue. I think

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Speaker 2: that is how we are most successful. Again, most of

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Speaker 2: us are are united on again medical exceptions, the ability

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Speaker 2: to listen to your doctor. I mean not only just

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Speaker 2: listen to your doctor, Danielle, but even you know, there's

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Speaker 2: stories in Texas anecdotally of you know, doctors even being

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Speaker 2: fearful of providing information to the person so that they

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Speaker 2: can make the decision. Right. So that is that's really

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Speaker 2: what is happening. And we are seeing unfortunately, kind of

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Speaker 2: where this where this takes, where these policies take you

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Speaker 2: what they look like. And obviously that's not where that's

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Speaker 2: not where Texans are. I'm sure that's not where most

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Speaker 2: Americans are either, But it just strikes me, as you know,

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Speaker 2: as an Air Force veteran Iraq War veteran that you

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Speaker 2: know in the land of the Home, the land of

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Speaker 2: the free, the home of the brave, that this is

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Speaker 2: something that we are even discussing right women having to

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Speaker 2: flee their states, living in fear right as they go

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Speaker 2: seek reproductive care that is not available in their state

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Speaker 2: to save their life and takes to save their their

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Speaker 2: their fertility. So I think, look, let's keep the main thing,

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Speaker 2: the main thing, which is women should be able to

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Speaker 2: make decisions about their own bodies. And there's one person

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Speaker 2: for there's one person running for president that believes that.

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Speaker 2: So I mean, this is a it's a we can

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Speaker 2: we can make it a ten second discussion or it

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Speaker 2: can be a ten hour discussion. But at the end

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Speaker 2: of the day, there's one person running for president that

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Speaker 2: believes that.

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Speaker 1: There are still right now a handful of states right

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Speaker 1: where abortion is legal. We have a patch of protections.

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Speaker 1: And there are some that say, well, if you can't

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Speaker 1: have an abortion in Texas, then just go someplace else.

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Speaker 1: And I think that people who live inside of blue states,

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Speaker 1: like I do, believe that a national abortion ban is

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Speaker 1: an impossibility. What do you say to.

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Speaker 2: That, Well, I don't think we should take anything for granted, right,

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Speaker 2: I mean, look, I'm a I'm a I'm a lesbian

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Speaker 2: woman of color. Like I I don't take anything for granted,

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Speaker 2: given what we have, what we have seen happen just

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Speaker 2: in the last just under the last administration, right, certainly

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Speaker 2: from a from a national security standpoint, but also from

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Speaker 2: a from a just a reproductive freedom standpoint, I don't.

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Speaker 2: I don't take anything for granted, and we shouldn't do that.

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Speaker 2: That's that's my my short answer to that. I just complacency,

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Speaker 2: I think is very dangerous, certainly heading into twenty twenty four,

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Speaker 2: and to think about what could be possible under a

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Speaker 2: second term of Donald Trump. I mean now that he's

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Speaker 2: you know, figured out, you know who's on his side

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Speaker 2: is not, has a better understanding of the rules, I

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Speaker 2: think he and he's been very clear right about the

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Speaker 2: type of people he'd bring in and the things he

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Speaker 2: would focus on, and even his rhetoric now is much

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Speaker 2: more dangerous a kin obviously to Nazi speak. So we

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Speaker 2: should take nothing for granted, and certainly that applies to

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Speaker 2: the reproductive freedom space.

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Speaker 1: Do you tell people as we close out how they

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Speaker 1: can support find out how they can get involved with

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Speaker 1: the work that you all are doing on the ground

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Speaker 1: and so that people feel like they are doing something

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Speaker 1: that they're just not, you know, waiting for the worst

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Speaker 1: to happen.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, thanks so much again for having me on

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Speaker 2: and thanks folks for listening. But the website is Www.

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Speaker 2: Find outpack dot com. Got our launch video there. Please

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Speaker 2: share that. I think you know, increasingly folks are understanding

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Speaker 2: just how important that bench is right and so we'll

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Speaker 2: continue to hit that home as well as as these

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Speaker 2: as these justices make decisions on this issue on others

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Speaker 2: that are affecting the everyday lives of Texan. So www.

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Speaker 2: Dot FindOut pack dot com is where folks can go

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Speaker 2: and make a donation in any amount that they would like.

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Speaker 2: And really appreciate the support. And again we're not hopeless

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Speaker 2: or hopeless in Texas and this is our ballot initiative,

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Speaker 2: so really appreciates folks with support to help us out.

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Speaker 1: We really appreciate the work that you're doing. Really appreciate

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Speaker 1: the focus that you have on changing your Supreme Court

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Speaker 1: and I hope that it is mimicked across the country

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Speaker 1: in red states that we have in many ways turned

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Speaker 1: our backs on. Really appreciate you Gena, thanks for joining,

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Speaker 1: Thanks Didille. That is it for me today. Dear friends

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Speaker 1: on Woke a f as always, Power to the people

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Speaker 1: and to all the people. Power, get woke and stay

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Speaker 1: woke as fuck.