1 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:18,840 Speaker 1: I just remember getting the text from my investigator. I 2 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:22,200 Speaker 1: immediately pick up my phone and I was like, oh 3 00:00:22,239 --> 00:00:32,239 Speaker 1: my god, what do we know. She was able to 4 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 1: provide a description of the man because he came into 5 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 1: their home. He ate some food, he had some drinks. 6 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:46,680 Speaker 2: When someone commits a crime, they inevitably leave little clues 7 00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:50,840 Speaker 2: of who they are at the scene. Sometimes it's a fingerprint, 8 00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:55,640 Speaker 2: a speck of blood, or a drop of seamen and 9 00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:58,560 Speaker 2: while police collect the evidence, a lot of times it 10 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:04,640 Speaker 2: just sits on tested for decades. But now the promise 11 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:08,200 Speaker 2: of new DNA technology has some departments vowing to clear 12 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:20,320 Speaker 2: a backlog of cases, starting with the most violent. This 13 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 2: is America's Crime Lab. I'm Alan Lanzlesser and I'm here 14 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 2: with producer Catherine Finalosa. 15 00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:29,479 Speaker 3: Allen, I want to tell you about a case from 16 00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:38,120 Speaker 3: nineteen ninety. It happened in Stone Mountain, Georgia, which is 17 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 3: about a half hour east of Atlanta. On July fifteenth, 18 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:47,120 Speaker 3: nineteen ninety, a nine to one one call is made 19 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 3: a little after four in the morning, and a neighbor 20 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 3: calls saying that a woman has shown up at their 21 00:01:56,920 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 3: door and she's injured, pretty severely injured. She's standing in 22 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:08,160 Speaker 3: just a blood soaked T shirt. This woman is Pamela 23 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 3: Sumpter and she lives in a neighboring apartment. She says 24 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:17,040 Speaker 3: she's been stabbed and she's been raped. 25 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 4: Oh my god. 26 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 3: So the neighbors start attending to her, trying to stop 27 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 3: the bleeding. The police arrive, and when they go to 28 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:32,799 Speaker 3: Pamela's apartment, which she shared with her brother John, they 29 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:38,640 Speaker 3: find John dead. He's lying on the floor and a 30 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:42,920 Speaker 3: couch has been placed on top of his body. Oh, 31 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 3: it's just a brutal, brutal crime scene. 32 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:49,680 Speaker 4: Oh my god. 33 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:55,880 Speaker 2: So he's died and she Pamela, I mean, do we 34 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:57,399 Speaker 2: know where she was stabbed? 35 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:02,520 Speaker 3: She has multiple stab wounds. But before she's taken to 36 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 3: the hospital, she's actually able to give a description of 37 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 3: the man who attacked her to the police. What she 38 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:15,280 Speaker 3: says is that she'd never met him before. Her brother 39 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 3: had brought him home the night before, and her brother 40 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:22,960 Speaker 3: was gay, but it wasn't like him to bring men 41 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:28,280 Speaker 3: home to their apartment, so that was odd. She says. 42 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:32,120 Speaker 3: The guy's name was maybe al or Eddie, she can't 43 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 3: really remember. She did remember that he had said he 44 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:42,840 Speaker 3: had recently moved to the area. He was about I 45 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:47,640 Speaker 3: don't know, five seven or five nine. He was dark skinned, 46 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 3: and he was built like a bodybuilder like sort of 47 00:03:54,400 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 3: very like big muscles, a thick build. 48 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 4: Huh. 49 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 2: Somehow, the way you're telling me this case, I feel 50 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 2: like I have my little Sherlock cap on. I'm ready 51 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 2: to solve this case because this is this is horrible. 52 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 3: Oh, it's horrible. 53 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:19,799 Speaker 2: Also, it's really good that they were able to talk 54 00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 2: to Pamela right away, because it's so critical to talk 55 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 2: to the victim and get as much information as you 56 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:29,360 Speaker 2: can because that's your best bet. 57 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:35,360 Speaker 3: Well, and it's amazing that Pamela, considering her injuries, is 58 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 3: even able to like have a clear head and remember 59 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:42,440 Speaker 3: these details and share. 60 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 2: Them bravery even to have the wherewithal to. 61 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 3: Do that exactly. And so she's able to tell police 62 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:55,919 Speaker 3: that this guy, el or Eddie had come home with 63 00:04:56,000 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 3: her brother. They had had some drinks and ate food 64 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:03,479 Speaker 3: at the apartment, and then her brother John and the 65 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:05,680 Speaker 3: man decide to head out for the night and they 66 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:08,240 Speaker 3: say they're going to drive around Atlanta, maybe hit up 67 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 3: some clubs, and they invite Pamela to come with them, 68 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:14,360 Speaker 3: but she says no, you guys go, I need to 69 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 3: get up early for work. So she stays home. The 70 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 3: men leave, and Pamela stays up a little bit. She's 71 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:28,159 Speaker 3: sitting on the couch watching TV when her brother and 72 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:31,919 Speaker 3: this guy return. It's been maybe a couple hours and 73 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:35,280 Speaker 3: it's about eleven o'clock at night. The three of them 74 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:37,720 Speaker 3: talk for a little bit, but there's something about this 75 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 3: guy that makes Pamela uncomfortable, and she can't put her 76 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:46,280 Speaker 3: finger on it, but she just feels really uneasy around him. 77 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:49,680 Speaker 3: So she excuses herself and she says she's going to 78 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:52,599 Speaker 3: bid and her bedroom is on the second floor of 79 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 3: the apartment, so she goes upstairs and she leaves John 80 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:01,120 Speaker 3: and this guy downstairs in the room in front of 81 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:05,080 Speaker 3: the TV. Okay, so Pamela goes upstairs to go to bed, 82 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:08,279 Speaker 3: and at some point we don't know exactly what time, 83 00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:13,920 Speaker 3: but Pamela wakes up to find this man standing completely 84 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:17,559 Speaker 3: naked over her bed. He's holding a knife in his hand. 85 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:18,919 Speaker 4: Oh my god. 86 00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 3: Pamela is obviously completely startled and confused, and she asks 87 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:31,360 Speaker 3: the man, where is my brother? This guy says he's 88 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:38,680 Speaker 3: downstairs sleeping, and then this man attacks Pamela. So those 89 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:42,360 Speaker 3: are the details that she's able to tell police. At 90 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 3: this point, she's rushed to the hospital and into emergency 91 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:51,880 Speaker 3: surgery to repair the stab wounds. She has abdominal surgery. 92 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:57,680 Speaker 3: Her shoulder is dislocated, she's in a rough way, and 93 00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:01,960 Speaker 3: they do a rape kit. Now, after surgery, she wakes up, 94 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:04,240 Speaker 3: she's able to talk to her family, she's able to 95 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:07,720 Speaker 3: actually talk to the police again, but then she needs 96 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:12,960 Speaker 3: to be ventilated due to the extensiveness of her injuries, 97 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 3: and she never regains consciousness. So Pamela dies two weeks 98 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 3: later in the hospital. 99 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 4: No, that's so sad. 100 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 3: The night of the attack, the police actually spend about 101 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:38,560 Speaker 3: six hours in Pamela and John's apartment collecting evidence and 102 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 3: just examining the whole crime scene. And I was curious 103 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:45,480 Speaker 3: about what they found, so I called Shannon Hotter, she's 104 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 3: a senior assistant District Attorney at the DeKalb County DA's office. 105 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:54,600 Speaker 1: As detectives started working their way through the home, what 106 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 1: they found was a really, really awful scene. The phone 107 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 1: lines had been cut throughout the home. They found Pamela's 108 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:09,720 Speaker 1: bedroom and disarray, blood soaked sheets, blood on her bedroom floor. 109 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:15,640 Speaker 1: John had also been stabbed, and the sofa in the 110 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:19,040 Speaker 1: living room had been placed over his body, so it 111 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 1: was covering his head and upper torso, so they had 112 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 1: to remove the sofa off of his body. 113 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 3: It's really haunting. I mean, there's blood everywhere. 114 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:36,440 Speaker 2: That sounds horrific, and it also sounds like there's a 115 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 2: lot of evidence for detectives to collect. 116 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:44,080 Speaker 1: The investigators, i mean, even back then, did a tremendous job. 117 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:51,520 Speaker 1: They collected the sheets from Pamela's bed, They collected biological 118 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 1: samples from suspected blood. 119 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:58,320 Speaker 3: In the kitchen, there's definitely signs that, as Pamela said 120 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:02,040 Speaker 3: that they had had dinner, and the dishes have not 121 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:08,280 Speaker 3: been washed yet. They're able to take fingerprints from the plates. 122 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:13,440 Speaker 3: They also dust the bathroom doorknob and they're able to 123 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:14,760 Speaker 3: get fingerprints from that. 124 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:18,760 Speaker 1: They were able to collect the knife that was near 125 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:23,320 Speaker 1: John's body that was the suspected murder weapon. They took 126 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:27,959 Speaker 1: hundreds of pictures. They just spent a lot of time 127 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:31,599 Speaker 1: meticulously going through the scene to try to collect or 128 00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 1: retain anything that might lead to the identity of this person. 129 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:39,640 Speaker 2: This happened in nineteen ninety, so the FBI's Crime Database 130 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:42,000 Speaker 2: CODIS isn't operating yet, right. 131 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think that was really available to states 132 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 3: until the late nineties. 133 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:50,800 Speaker 2: So I mean, what options do they have for testing 134 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:51,440 Speaker 2: the evidence? 135 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:53,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, I was curious about that too. 136 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:58,559 Speaker 1: What they could do in nineteen ninety was if they 137 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:02,840 Speaker 1: were able to generate a suspect, they could do a 138 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:08,680 Speaker 1: direct comparison of that person's DNA to any biological samples 139 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 1: from the crime scene that yielded DNA. So they would 140 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 1: want to retain any potential samples just in case they 141 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:17,839 Speaker 1: did develop a suspect. 142 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 2: It's just interesting to me that when you started telling 143 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:26,200 Speaker 2: this story, I, for some reason, because I know nothing 144 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:30,240 Speaker 2: about this, immediately jumped to I wonder if Pamela was 145 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:34,680 Speaker 2: involved and has some kind of faked injury. And I 146 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:37,200 Speaker 2: just think that's so messed up of me in a 147 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:41,319 Speaker 2: way to immediately question the victim. I don't even know 148 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:44,440 Speaker 2: why I'm sharing that, but it's interesting how it's so 149 00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:48,080 Speaker 2: easy to blame the victim so quickly. And I'm kind 150 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:52,320 Speaker 2: of noticing that in myself even and that then she 151 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 2: died well. 152 00:10:53,360 --> 00:11:00,400 Speaker 3: And I think also you can see how complicated exactamining 153 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:06,440 Speaker 3: a crime scene is when you don't really know who's 154 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:11,080 Speaker 3: involved and what the backstories are. That you have to 155 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:14,840 Speaker 3: like put your assumptions aside in a way, right, like 156 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:18,840 Speaker 3: not let any judgment creep into your thought pattern and 157 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:23,520 Speaker 3: really just like try and focus on the facts that 158 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 3: you have in front of you, because I mean, clearly 159 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:30,680 Speaker 3: a lot of cases, right the prime suspect turns out 160 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:33,480 Speaker 3: to be not involved at all. 161 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:44,280 Speaker 2: There is such a thing as coincidence too. Things can 162 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:48,920 Speaker 2: just happen, and yeah, you have to try to set 163 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:51,720 Speaker 2: the bias on the table. And also you were saying 164 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:55,960 Speaker 2: being an investigator in the situation, walking in having no 165 00:11:56,200 --> 00:12:00,200 Speaker 2: context and there's blood everywhere. Two people have died or 166 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 2: at least one has died so far, and one is 167 00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:03,680 Speaker 2: severely injured. 168 00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 4: It's like, how terrifying. 169 00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:11,760 Speaker 2: And you're just questioning every single person and everything that's happening. 170 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:19,640 Speaker 3: If you're to believe Pamela, there's another person who was 171 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:36,960 Speaker 3: in that apartment that evening who is now mi Ia. 172 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:44,240 Speaker 3: So the police question everyone neighbors, friends, family, and they're 173 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:49,040 Speaker 3: trying to figure out, like did anybody hear anything? Did 174 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 3: Pamela or John mention this man to any friends or family? 175 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:57,720 Speaker 3: They really can't find out much about him. They're just 176 00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:00,720 Speaker 3: going on maybe his name is Eddie or al. I 177 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:04,480 Speaker 3: think friends mentioned like, oh yeah, maybe he had been 178 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:06,760 Speaker 3: at a party that Pamela and John had been to 179 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 3: a week or two before. But even that was a 180 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:16,560 Speaker 3: little like, you know, questionable recollection. So they're kind of stuck. 181 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 3: So it's great that they collected the DNA, but there's 182 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:21,439 Speaker 3: nothing to do with it. 183 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, I can imagine that would have been so frustrating. 184 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:31,239 Speaker 1: So the case with no viable leads was really shelved. 185 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 1: There were a lot of other cases coming in. The 186 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 1: detective started working those, and without any tips or leads 187 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:43,720 Speaker 1: coming in, the case wasn't really ever looked back at again. 188 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:48,079 Speaker 3: So this rape kit just sits untested. 189 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:55,400 Speaker 2: I have a little glimmery feeling though, that that rape 190 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:58,480 Speaker 2: kit is going to come into play later on. 191 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:02,559 Speaker 3: Yes, now we're going to jump ahead to twenty twenty two. 192 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:09,400 Speaker 1: Two things sort of happen almost simultaneously. 193 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 3: So first, the federal government sets aside money for states 194 00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:16,960 Speaker 3: to test rape kits, and it's through something called the 195 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 3: Sexual Assault Kit Initiative. The goal is to clear out 196 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:25,720 Speaker 3: a backlog of untested rape kits. And then something else happens. 197 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:31,480 Speaker 1: Right around that same time, our office was putting together 198 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:35,600 Speaker 1: a cold case task force, and we were looking specifically 199 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:41,160 Speaker 1: at unsolved homicides here into Cab County that might have 200 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:46,040 Speaker 1: DNA evidence that we could use and hopefully develop a suspect. 201 00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:51,040 Speaker 3: Shannon Hotter and her team start looking through their unsolved. 202 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:55,960 Speaker 1: Cases, so we started with cases that involve female victims, 203 00:14:56,680 --> 00:15:04,160 Speaker 1: stabbings and sexual assaults. Because of the personal nature of 204 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 1: those types of attacks, you are just more likely to 205 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:14,600 Speaker 1: have DNA evidence. I believe the GBI sent off over 206 00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:18,520 Speaker 1: seven hundred rape kits, and Pamela Sumter's case was one 207 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 1: of the ones that really stuck out to us. 208 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 2: It makes me angry the fact that there are these 209 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:28,520 Speaker 2: seven hundred rape kits just sitting there, and that's just 210 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:32,200 Speaker 2: at one agency, which means that when you look at 211 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:35,800 Speaker 2: the whole country, there's probably hundreds of thousands of untested kits. 212 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:38,600 Speaker 2: I mean, when you hear about rape kits, you just 213 00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 2: assume that at the very least they're all tested to 214 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:42,440 Speaker 2: some degree. 215 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:45,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree, and I mean I guess the other 216 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:47,080 Speaker 3: way to look at it is back at the time, 217 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:49,880 Speaker 3: the only way they could test a rape kit is 218 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:53,120 Speaker 3: if they had a suspect in mind, but I mean, 219 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 3: thank god they didn't just toss the rape kit out 220 00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 3: at some point. It's kind of amazing that they actually 221 00:15:58,520 --> 00:15:58,960 Speaker 3: kept it. 222 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 4: All these years. That's true. 223 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:05,280 Speaker 3: So Pamela's rape kit fits all the criteria for testing now, 224 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:08,520 Speaker 3: and Shannon Hotter sends the kit off to a lab. 225 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:12,440 Speaker 1: A number of swabs were taken in Pamela's rape kit, 226 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:16,160 Speaker 1: but it was the vaginal swab from that rape kit 227 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 1: that yielded the DNA profile, and it was from Semen. 228 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 3: But when they load that profile into the state's crime database, 229 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:32,480 Speaker 3: which is, you know, basically a database full of DNA 230 00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:38,080 Speaker 3: from known criminals or previous violent crimes. 231 00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:41,280 Speaker 1: We had no hits whatsoever. 232 00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 2: I honestly thought you were going to say, now they 233 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:48,000 Speaker 2: have a suspect. That must have been incredibly disappointing. 234 00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:50,680 Speaker 3: Actually she's not disappointed. 235 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:56,640 Speaker 1: So I hate to say that it was exciting. Here 236 00:16:56,680 --> 00:17:02,160 Speaker 1: we have our opportunity to deploy the new technique that 237 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:07,280 Speaker 1: has been utilized around the country to solve hundreds of cases, 238 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:11,240 Speaker 1: and we have found a case where we can apply 239 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:12,240 Speaker 1: it ourselves. 240 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:21,320 Speaker 3: Shannon Hotter is talking about genetic genealogy. Now, since there 241 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:24,800 Speaker 3: were no hits in George's crime database. She wants to 242 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:27,720 Speaker 3: use the DNA and build out a family tree, but 243 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:30,720 Speaker 3: first they have to upload the profile to codis. 244 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:34,159 Speaker 2: To see if the DNA profile matches a different crime 245 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:35,000 Speaker 2: in another state. 246 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:38,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. So the profile is submitted. 247 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:43,800 Speaker 1: And then we got a hit. It was a hit 248 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:49,640 Speaker 1: to another unsolved case in Michigan. Then I'm really excited. 249 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:53,679 Speaker 1: Now we have a potential suspect and that really is 250 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:57,080 Speaker 1: the true goal here, to solve this case and to 251 00:17:57,080 --> 00:17:58,920 Speaker 1: bring justice to the Sumpter family. 252 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:03,879 Speaker 2: So let me get this straight. The DNA profile hits 253 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 2: in codis, so they know that the person who raped 254 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:10,399 Speaker 2: Pamela and murdered her and her brother John is tied 255 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:13,720 Speaker 2: to another crime in Michigan, but we still don't know 256 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:15,160 Speaker 2: his identity. 257 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:15,720 Speaker 5: Yeah. 258 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:18,600 Speaker 3: So the Michigan case was also in the early nineties, 259 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:22,320 Speaker 3: a woman was sexually assaulted, but no one was arrested 260 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:26,160 Speaker 3: in the case. However, at the time police did question 261 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:29,879 Speaker 3: someone and they collected his DNA and then entered that 262 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:34,800 Speaker 3: into CODAS, and Shannon Hotter is like, wait a second, 263 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 3: we're onto something. I mean, this is the first big 264 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:39,680 Speaker 3: break in thirty four years. 265 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:45,720 Speaker 1: So as soon as we get that potential match notification, 266 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:49,119 Speaker 1: we immediately get in touch with their cold case department 267 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:52,320 Speaker 1: and tell them about this potential lead that we now 268 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 1: have in both of our cases, and they get to 269 00:18:55,680 --> 00:19:03,360 Speaker 1: work trying to pull this file for us. So they 270 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:06,439 Speaker 1: had to go back to their archives. They told us 271 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:11,119 Speaker 1: ahead of time, listen, manage your expectations. We had a 272 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:14,640 Speaker 1: huge flood in our archives. More than half of our 273 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:20,119 Speaker 1: old cases have been destroyed. But we will look. And 274 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:23,760 Speaker 1: about two weeks later we get the call that they 275 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:28,200 Speaker 1: have found it. It is intact. We couldn't believe it. 276 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:46,720 Speaker 2: So, Catherine, what do we know about the Michigan case? 277 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:50,960 Speaker 3: A woman reported that her ex boyfriend sexually assaulted her 278 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:54,720 Speaker 3: and in the file she gives his name and birth date. 279 00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 2: Wait, an ex boyfriend, so that means they should have 280 00:19:58,119 --> 00:19:58,800 Speaker 2: his identity? 281 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:02,000 Speaker 3: Yes, and back in Michigan, the police had actually brought 282 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:04,840 Speaker 3: this guy in for questioning, which is why his DNA 283 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:05,639 Speaker 3: was on file. 284 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:08,440 Speaker 1: There was a case note that they had interviewed him, 285 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:11,680 Speaker 1: that he had said it was consensual, and because it 286 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:14,359 Speaker 1: was what they said he said, she said, kind of 287 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:17,440 Speaker 1: situation they chose not to prosecute at that time. 288 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:19,560 Speaker 4: Oh my god, that's good. 289 00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:24,000 Speaker 2: They have a name. Who knows how many crimes this 290 00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:27,480 Speaker 2: guy has potentially committed. I mean it sounds like he 291 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:32,400 Speaker 2: probably at least murdered two people. And the one time 292 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:34,960 Speaker 2: where someone can actually come forward and say it's my 293 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:35,800 Speaker 2: ex boyfriend. 294 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 4: I know exactly who he is. 295 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:41,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, to not prosecute, it's just just think about all 296 00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:45,119 Speaker 2: the other potential victims because of that. 297 00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:49,119 Speaker 3: So it turns out that another big part of the 298 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:54,600 Speaker 3: investigation is happening simultaneously. Earlier, Shannon Hotter said she was 299 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:59,040 Speaker 3: watching other agencies solt cold cases using forensic genetic genealogy 300 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:02,240 Speaker 3: and she wanted to try it. So while she was 301 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:05,000 Speaker 3: waiting for Michigan to go through their archives and find 302 00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:08,159 Speaker 3: their old case file, she decides to reach out to 303 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 3: David Middleman at AUTHRM. 304 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 6: We felt very confident if plenty of DNA, the quality 305 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:17,280 Speaker 6: was fine, and what we ended up doing is we 306 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:21,760 Speaker 6: built a DNA profile for the unknown contributor to this 307 00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:25,160 Speaker 6: rape kit, and then after we did that, we started 308 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 6: doing forensic genetic genealogy. We then went through the process 309 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:33,120 Speaker 6: of building out family trees and developing hypothesis, and. 310 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:35,800 Speaker 3: At the same time, Shannon gets the name from Michigan. 311 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:41,640 Speaker 1: When we get that file, we learn that the victim 312 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:48,199 Speaker 1: in that case reported a Kenneth Perry. We found a 313 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 1: Kenneth Perry living in Georgia. We've run as criminal history. 314 00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:56,919 Speaker 1: We see that he used to live in Michigan and 315 00:21:56,960 --> 00:22:00,320 Speaker 1: actually even has a fences out of Michigan. We can 316 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:03,480 Speaker 1: also place him into keb County. This could be our person. 317 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:09,920 Speaker 3: And Authorroom keeps building the family tree. 318 00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:14,439 Speaker 1: They did the ancestry and they were able to say 319 00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:19,639 Speaker 1: that our crime scene evidence was from the family tree 320 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:24,760 Speaker 1: of this Kenneth Perry living in Georgia. We take our 321 00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:29,639 Speaker 1: known suspect now and run his fingerprints against our crime 322 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:34,320 Speaker 1: scene evidence, and we were able to develop matches to 323 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:38,560 Speaker 1: three different Layton lifts, two from a plate that was 324 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:42,200 Speaker 1: in the kitchen at the Sumpter's house and one from 325 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:45,639 Speaker 1: a bathroom doorknob in the Sumter's house. And then we 326 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:46,720 Speaker 1: knew we had our guy. 327 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:51,000 Speaker 3: The DA's office gets a search warrant for Kenneth Perry's 328 00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 3: DNA and an arrest warrant, and then they set off 329 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:55,440 Speaker 3: to find him. 330 00:22:56,440 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 1: Our office then started working with the Sheriff's department, who 331 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:04,959 Speaker 1: has a fugitive unit. The Sheriff's department was able to 332 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:08,800 Speaker 1: get eyes on mister Perry at his home. They then 333 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:13,520 Speaker 1: followed him to a restaurant where he was going to 334 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:17,680 Speaker 1: have lunch with his girlfriend and I believe her grandson. 335 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:23,760 Speaker 4: So this is a full fledged stakeout. 336 00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:27,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, law enforcement arrests him inside the restaurant and since 337 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:30,440 Speaker 3: they have a search weren't for his DNA, they get 338 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:32,560 Speaker 3: a mouth swab to confirm his identity. 339 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:38,720 Speaker 1: You absolutely need to have a confirmation swab, and so 340 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:41,680 Speaker 1: you can tell Durie, you can tell a judge that 341 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:45,600 Speaker 1: this person sitting before you, we have taken their DNA, 342 00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:48,600 Speaker 1: we have compared it against the evidence, and we have 343 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:49,240 Speaker 1: a match. 344 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:51,199 Speaker 3: And the case goes to trial. 345 00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:58,359 Speaker 1: Mister Perry chose to testify, and he told one of 346 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:04,280 Speaker 1: the most outraged, disgusting stories I've ever heard as a prosecutor. 347 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:10,080 Speaker 1: Not only did he deny the offenses, but he tried 348 00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:16,800 Speaker 1: to flip the script and turn the Sumpters into his attackers. 349 00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:20,800 Speaker 1: He indicated that he had been picked up by mister Sumter, 350 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:26,040 Speaker 1: taken back to the Sumpter's house where he was drugged 351 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:31,119 Speaker 1: and then sexually assaulted by John, his sister, and a 352 00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 1: third unknown male. 353 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:38,720 Speaker 2: It just feels so so icky to me that he 354 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:44,800 Speaker 2: was trying to portray the victims of his crime as perpetrators. Yeah, 355 00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:46,719 Speaker 2: that just even goes beyond. 356 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,560 Speaker 3: In March of twenty twenty five, he was sentenced to 357 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:54,879 Speaker 3: three consecutive life terms plus one hundred years for raping 358 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:58,639 Speaker 3: Pamela Sumpter and murdering her and her brother John. 359 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:02,880 Speaker 2: But were they able to learn anything else from Kenneth 360 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:06,399 Speaker 2: or discover a motive that led to him murdering two people. 361 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:10,679 Speaker 3: No, they don't discover a motive, and actually no one 362 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:13,840 Speaker 3: is even sure how they met. But Shannon Hotter was 363 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:17,160 Speaker 3: able to tell Pamela and John's mother herself that the 364 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:19,760 Speaker 3: man who did this to her children was now in prison. 365 00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:25,040 Speaker 1: She honestly said she could only believe that it was 366 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:27,359 Speaker 1: the work of God. It was the hand of God 367 00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:30,920 Speaker 1: delivering justice to her to make sure that she saw 368 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:37,240 Speaker 1: the person responsible convicted and tried and held accountable for 369 00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:40,320 Speaker 1: what he had done to her family and Ailen. 370 00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:45,280 Speaker 3: Their mother was weeks away from her one hundredth birthday 371 00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:47,240 Speaker 3: when Kenneth Perry was convicted. 372 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:51,159 Speaker 4: It's like she was meant to know the truth. 373 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:56,280 Speaker 1: At ninety nine, had decided that that was never going 374 00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:59,399 Speaker 1: to happen, and then one day we show up at 375 00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:03,600 Speaker 1: her Dorset step. She didn't even realize we were looking 376 00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:06,640 Speaker 1: into the case. It was beautiful, It was really beautiful 377 00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:09,160 Speaker 1: to be able to do that for this family. 378 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:13,840 Speaker 7: I do believe that these families get stuck at that 379 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:17,080 Speaker 7: moment where they lost their loved one, and that's what 380 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:22,919 Speaker 7: I love about this technology. It reduces that uncertainty and 381 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:27,280 Speaker 7: it allows you to figure out exactly who was at 382 00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:29,760 Speaker 7: that crime scene, and then you can take that piece 383 00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 7: of information and build an entire case and bring that 384 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:35,400 Speaker 7: certainty and closure. 385 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:39,159 Speaker 2: It sounds kind of strange to say that a crime 386 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:42,680 Speaker 2: where there's been such a horrible rape and double murder 387 00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:46,399 Speaker 2: that you come to an ending where there is some hope. 388 00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:49,840 Speaker 2: I mean, solving it doesn't bring back Pamela and John. 389 00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:55,000 Speaker 3: No, but I know what you mean, and I think 390 00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:58,720 Speaker 3: that's what Kristin Middleman is saying. You can't go back 391 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:02,280 Speaker 3: in time and prevent what happened, but now maybe you 392 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:03,879 Speaker 3: can prevent it from happening again. 393 00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:07,359 Speaker 8: To live in a world where perpetrators are caught the 394 00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:10,199 Speaker 8: first time, and you're never going to stop people from 395 00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:13,760 Speaker 8: committing crimes, but to prevent that second and third and 396 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:18,280 Speaker 8: fourth and fifth attack, especially in sexual crimes where it's 397 00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:22,320 Speaker 8: they're repetitive right when people know that even if they 398 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:27,520 Speaker 8: leave trace amounts of DNA, you're still going to get caught. 399 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:31,800 Speaker 3: And that makes me think of the Idaho student murders. 400 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:34,520 Speaker 3: You know, by tracking the killer with his own DNA 401 00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:38,719 Speaker 3: in real time, it meant that he was arrested before 402 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:40,439 Speaker 3: he could commit another crime. 403 00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:44,960 Speaker 2: It is fascinating to think about how this technology could 404 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:47,840 Speaker 2: change the way crimes are investigated right from the start 405 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:52,080 Speaker 2: and maybe help keep cases from ever going cold. 406 00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:04,080 Speaker 1: Cold case work is a series of roller coaster emotions. 407 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,719 Speaker 1: You think you have DNA evidence, but when you go 408 00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:11,400 Speaker 1: to DCAB property room, it can't be located because it's 409 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:14,920 Speaker 1: so old and it's been misplaced where a witness has died. 410 00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:19,760 Speaker 1: Just there's so much heartache and disappointment in cold case work. 411 00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:26,480 Speaker 1: But with this case, everything panned out, everything went right, 412 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:31,639 Speaker 1: and it was the most incredible experience of my career. 413 00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:41,080 Speaker 2: Next time, on America's Crime Lab, it was treated as 414 00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:42,880 Speaker 2: this sort of insolvable crime. 415 00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:44,840 Speaker 1: It would always be her word against his. 416 00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:48,960 Speaker 5: So many times we've identified a perpetrator and they're a 417 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:53,200 Speaker 5: taxi driver at the airport, the barista that handed you 418 00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:56,320 Speaker 5: your coffee this morning, the it person that came to 419 00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:57,680 Speaker 5: your office or your house. 420 00:28:58,720 --> 00:28:59,680 Speaker 4: It's terrifying. 421 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:08,600 Speaker 2: America's Crime Lab is produced by Rococo Punch for Kaleidoscope. 422 00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:12,320 Speaker 2: Erica Lance is our story editor and sound design is 423 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:16,800 Speaker 2: by David Woji. Our producing team is Catherine Fedalosa, Emily 424 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:21,520 Speaker 2: Foreman and Jessica Albert. Our Executive producers are Kate Osborne, 425 00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:26,080 Speaker 2: Mangesh Hattigadour and David and Kristin Middleman and from iHeart 426 00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:28,120 Speaker 2: Katrina Norville and Ali Perry. 427 00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:30,720 Speaker 4: Special thanks to Connell. 428 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:36,360 Speaker 2: Byrne, Will Pearson, Kerrie Lieberman, Nikki Etour, Nathan Etowski, John Burbank, 429 00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:38,240 Speaker 2: and the entire team at Authrum. 430 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:41,760 Speaker 4: I'm Alan Lance Lesser. Thanks for listening.