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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Anny and Samantha and welcome to.

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Speaker 2: Stuff I never told your production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 3: And welcome to another Monday Mini where I'm going to

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Speaker 3: talk about how TikTok has attacked me.

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Speaker 1: Okay again ran TikTok No.

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Speaker 3: So there was a video not too long ago where

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Speaker 3: they were talking about how some and they were specifically

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Speaker 3: talking about women in relationships cannot function in relationships or

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Speaker 3: art can't do healthy relationships because of hyper independence. And

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Speaker 3: it is exactly what you think it is. It is

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Speaker 3: when an individual is extremely self reliant and a voice

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Speaker 3: going to other people for support or help. And just

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Speaker 3: for this Monday Minny, just so you know, I am

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Speaker 3: taking a chunk of our information from two articles, ones

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Speaker 3: from Sandstone's Care dot com and the other one is

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Speaker 3: brainsmagazine dot com Brains with a z oh yeah magazine

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Speaker 3: dot com, where we talk about what hyperindependence is and

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Speaker 3: they talk about what that looks like in relationships and

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Speaker 3: what that looks like with trauma, because you know, we

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Speaker 3: love talking about trauma.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what we talk about.

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Speaker 3: In that Sandstone article, it says hyperindependence in a woman

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Speaker 3: is where she cannot or will not accept help preferring

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Speaker 3: to do it all herself and typically creates a strong,

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Speaker 3: superhuman persona. I know you know what we're talking about people.

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Speaker 3: I know you know because again I felt attacked.

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Speaker 1: I know you do too.

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Speaker 3: Hyperindependence is often a childhood trauma response, though societal messaging

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Speaker 3: and conditioning are also worthy culprits, so it may not

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Speaker 3: necessarily completely trauma. We're talking about neglect, we're talking about abuse.

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Speaker 3: Obviously extreme neglect is high key in this too, but

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Speaker 3: also just societal messaging and conditioning. So we know, as women,

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Speaker 3: we are told that we need to be responsible or caretakers,

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Speaker 3: and we get that at a very young age. So

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Speaker 3: even if you think you had the normalism of the

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Speaker 3: relationships and normalist of childhood experiences being handed at baby

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Speaker 3: doll or being handed cookware and such, couldn't imply that

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Speaker 3: you were supposed to care for other people. So you

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Speaker 3: should care for only yourself, not necessarily need help. You've

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Speaker 3: got to teach yourself right right. Of course, It continues

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Speaker 3: stemming from situations that led her to believe she could

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Speaker 3: only rely on herself to meet her knees or get

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Speaker 3: things done. Somewhere along the way, she found trusting in

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Speaker 3: others too difficult or too painful. Over time, this belief

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Speaker 3: leads to her needing greater control over her outcomes and

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Speaker 3: external circumstances. So I must say type a people here

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Speaker 3: when we talk about the need to make anything perfect

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Speaker 3: or look perfect, or do it right the first time,

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Speaker 3: no mistakes whatsoever, because if you make a mistake, it

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Speaker 3: shows that you're a lesser person. Again, this is me

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Speaker 3: calling myself out as well, because I'm one of those

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Speaker 3: like if I think I'm not going to be good

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Speaker 3: at it, I will never do it. You will not

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Speaker 3: get me to do it. I will sit there and

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Speaker 3: stare at you look a like a like I'm sleeping

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Speaker 3: like a zombie, because I'll be like, nah nah, if

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Speaker 3: I don't look good, I'm not doing it.

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Speaker 1: I think it's very obvious.

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Speaker 3: That sometimes when we when we're telling our kids to

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Speaker 3: shake it off, like there's a balance in these things.

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Speaker 3: But if you're overly dependent on your child, and when

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Speaker 3: we talked about with parentified kids, this is going to

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Speaker 3: be what is led the hyperindependence.

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Speaker 1: And again but not great, not great.

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Speaker 3: So here are some of the common signs of high

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Speaker 3: for independence, which include mistrusted others, perfectionism, avoiding dependence on others,

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Speaker 3: little to no close relationships, not wanting to ask for help,

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Speaker 3: anxiety and depression, taking on too many responsibilities, stress and burnout,

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Speaker 3: and difficulties in relationships.

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Speaker 1: How are we doing? Anny? What are you saying? I'm

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Speaker 1: taking it for both of us. I'm just saying it

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Speaker 1: for both of us.

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Speaker 3: I've been reading this one, so I'm like, you haven't,

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Speaker 3: so I'm checking in with you.

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Speaker 1: Thank you.

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Speaker 2: This is my first hearing about this, and I yeah,

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Speaker 2: I'm a little like. Also, interestingly, we did kind of

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Speaker 2: talk about this. We didn't use this terminology, but in

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Speaker 2: our last Sex and the City with Maya, with Miranda

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Speaker 2: being so determined to not like.

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Speaker 1: Need any help.

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Speaker 2: So I think that's an interesting part of it too,

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Speaker 2: because I discussed in their part of my mis trust

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Speaker 2: in relationships is with guys, is that if I tell

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Speaker 2: you I just want to be friends, you're not taking

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Speaker 2: me seriously. And so if I do trust you to

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Speaker 2: do a thing, then it's going to be like, but

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Speaker 2: I did this thing for you, right, which I thought

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Speaker 2: was a friend thing, and now I'm finding out you

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Speaker 2: did not think so.

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Speaker 1: Whoops.

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Speaker 3: Yes, And by the way, so we're going to talk

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Speaker 3: what happens in relationships. But yes, so if we see

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Speaker 3: it as a hyperindependence as a form of a trauma response,

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Speaker 3: here's what they say. Individuals who have experienced trauma may

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Speaker 3: have had people in their life that emotionally or physically

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Speaker 3: abuse them, didn't meet their emotional needs, risk their safety,

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Speaker 3: or were unreliable or absent. These things can cause a

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Speaker 3: person to depend on themselves to survive and make them

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Speaker 3: feel that they cannot trust or rely on anyone else.

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Speaker 3: So I've talked about reactive attachment disorder. This could be

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Speaker 3: a key point in people being hyper independent as well.

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Speaker 3: Sometimes it goes the other way, it gets hyper codependent,

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Speaker 3: and we're not talking about that yet.

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Speaker 1: That might be a follow up Monday many I don't know. Now.

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Speaker 3: I will say that this is not a formal diagnosis,

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Speaker 3: and again it's considered more of a trauma or a

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Speaker 3: stress response. So so you know, it can stem from

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Speaker 3: PTSD when a person goes through traumatic experience and then

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Speaker 3: learns or feels that they cannot trust others.

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Speaker 1: Like we said before, and.

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Speaker 3: This is the one that's calling me out, Individuals with

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Speaker 3: hyper independence may have a fear of abandonment, often because

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Speaker 3: someone in the past was absent or abandoned them, or

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Speaker 3: several people's constantly where I was just handed it around

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Speaker 3: and shipped to a different country. Anyway, because of this,

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Speaker 3: they might avoid building close relationships with others in order

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Speaker 3: to minimize or prevent the chances of that person abandoning them.

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Speaker 3: It could be the very like match, I'm gonna leave first,

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Speaker 3: so you don't leave me right because hell NOA And

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Speaker 3: some of the symptoms that happen with this hyperindependence trauma

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Speaker 3: is feeling shame if they have to ask someone for help.

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Speaker 3: Have you ever had that moment where you're like raising

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Speaker 3: my hand it's for a class, for anything. My heart

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Speaker 3: would race and I would have to like think the

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Speaker 3: sentence out four times before I.

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Speaker 1: Evend even think about asking that question. Do you have?

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Speaker 3: This also isolation, depression of feeling unworthy or undeserving of support, anxiety,

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Speaker 3: thoughts of self harm, and substance abuse.

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Speaker 1: And again this is of.

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Speaker 3: Course a little more in depth in that you haven't

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Speaker 3: gotten treatment, you haven't gotten any help, any therapy rather,

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Speaker 3: And I find that interesting because yes, this is something

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Speaker 3: that a lot of women have to the point that

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Speaker 3: they would much rather I think that's this whole double conversation,

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Speaker 3: like they would much rather be alone because they're tired

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Speaker 3: of being disappointed because they have been taught that eventually

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Speaker 3: you will be disappointed.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And I do think there is a a

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Speaker 2: lot of conditioning around asking for help with women of

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Speaker 2: it being It's interesting because there's almost two sides of

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Speaker 2: the coin, right. There's the feminist part where we're like

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Speaker 2: I don't need anybody, which is not healthy, but we've

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Speaker 2: had to learn to do that. But then there's the

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Speaker 2: other side where it's like you don't want to be

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Speaker 2: a quote nag, like you don't want to bother people,

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Speaker 2: so it's almost like you can't win. Yeah, And I

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Speaker 2: do think a lot of people, a lot of women,

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Speaker 2: for that reason those reasons, have taken it on themselves.

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Speaker 2: And I know I've done this to be that like

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Speaker 2: I'm not going to bother anybody, but also I don't

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Speaker 2: need anybody. It's a strange straddling of yeah, I can

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Speaker 2: do this on my own, right, but also I don't

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Speaker 2: want to ask for help because you might get mad

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Speaker 2: at me.

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Speaker 1: Right, right, right.

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Speaker 3: And I think it's interesting because they talk about what

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Speaker 3: this looks like in relationships. So again, this is from

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Speaker 3: the Brains article and they say in relationships, the impact

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Speaker 3: on intimate relationships is that hyperindependent women don't allow their

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Speaker 3: partner to help because it feels unsafe and equates to

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Speaker 3: them a lack of control. She's so used to being

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Speaker 3: a strong, independent woman and with anything that underminds her

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Speaker 3: belief in herself is often and vehementally rejected. The irony

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Speaker 3: is many hyper independent women are craving for someone, anyone

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Speaker 3: to come and help, rescue or support them, if you

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Speaker 3: can openly admit that. So I hate the term rescue.

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Speaker 1: I hate. I hate it with all my might.

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Speaker 3: And again this is as you were talking about in

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Speaker 3: that Sex in the City episode, She's like, no, no,

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Speaker 3: no rescue.

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Speaker 1: She literally says no rescue. Ye in that level.

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Speaker 3: And I am this similar way. I will say, since

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Speaker 3: being in this relationship where I've finally gotten comfortable and

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Speaker 3: I know that they are going to be around, and

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Speaker 3: I've been with them for more than five years, it

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Speaker 3: took a long time for me to be like, oh,

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Speaker 3: it's kind of you're gonna give me my coffee, okay?

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Speaker 3: Because I often like, and I still do, like, it's

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Speaker 3: kind of funny. I'm the one who'll make it every morning.

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Speaker 3: I'm the one that still cooks a lot more dinner.

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Speaker 3: I've taken it on myself more so than that has

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Speaker 3: been an expectation again, because this is that need to

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Speaker 3: be independent, but show you that you need me more

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Speaker 3: than I need you.

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Speaker 2: Right, yeah, yeah, I did that too. I don't feel

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Speaker 2: great in my case. I don't feel great about it

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Speaker 2: looking bad because I was definitely being like I've been

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Speaker 2: fine without you.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what you do without me.

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Speaker 3: But a point of pride for like for me as

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Speaker 3: well that I'm like to understand this is a choice

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Speaker 3: and I'll be good without it. But at the same time,

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Speaker 3: I really do appreciate it, and when I receive it,

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Speaker 3: I'm like, what is this?

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Speaker 1: What is this?

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Speaker 3: Oh me, like like that's kind of that moment.

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Speaker 1: Uh yeah.

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Speaker 3: And that article goes on to say the truth you

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Speaker 3: are not the burden that you think you are. Another

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Speaker 3: truth you need to let your partner support you. And

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Speaker 3: that's the conversation against support, support and compromise. That's the

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Speaker 3: biggest point that I think we sometimes forget. And this

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Speaker 3: is where the anti feminists jump in and be like, see.

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Speaker 1: Look look at you.

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Speaker 3: You can't you don't need a man and you don't

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Speaker 3: need these things.

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Speaker 1: And eventually I'm like, yeah.

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Speaker 3: But we also like them. Like, it's not because we're

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Speaker 3: not saying to be a feminist you have to not

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Speaker 3: have these things, right, we're saying that it's hard to

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Speaker 3: find people who can be these things.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, that whole idea is pretty pretty ridiculous because again,

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Speaker 2: it should be an equal partnership, equal support. Right, it's

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Speaker 2: not the rescue as you were saying, like the guy

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Speaker 2: rescuing you are all of these other sexist societal expectations

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Speaker 2: that are at play, whether we want them to be

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Speaker 2: or not, because that's this is where we were raised. Right,

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Speaker 2: So yeah, it's ridiculous to me when people are like, ah,

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Speaker 2: you like having a partner, Wow.

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Speaker 3: A relationship you want to Like, there's this conversation and

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Speaker 3: I don't know how we've lost it again.

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Speaker 1: I don't know why.

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Speaker 3: Maybe it's because that narrative keeps popping back up of

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Speaker 3: like if you don't if you cook, if you are

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Speaker 3: staying at home mom, if you choose to do these things,

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Speaker 3: you're not a feminist.

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Speaker 1: That's the conversation. Again.

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Speaker 3: We want to throw it back to the original, like

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Speaker 3: when we were talking about women wanting to be able

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Speaker 3: to get jobs and these things, there were many women

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Speaker 3: who were already having jobs and they would love to

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Speaker 3: have the option of being able to be the stay

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Speaker 3: at home mom or any of those things, and they

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Speaker 3: are not being able to have the equitability to do so.

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Speaker 3: Like this is that conversation. Equality and equitability is the forethought,

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Speaker 3: not what you can and cannot do. That's such a

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Speaker 3: trivial ideal. And with that, having a supportive partner that

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Speaker 3: you can lean on is a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful thing.

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Speaker 3: Not the way they take all of this, like it's

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Speaker 3: not all this one sided conversation.

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Speaker 1: Is it hard? Yes?

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Speaker 3: Is it still hard for those who we would loudly say,

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Speaker 3: I am a feminist, but I take care of the

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Speaker 3: household stuff a little too much because I just do.

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Speaker 3: Again in this that level of like I can do

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Speaker 3: by myself. I don't need you, but I do need you,

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Speaker 3: but I do Like it doesn't necessarily have to be

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Speaker 3: the need you, it's the want you. In this conversation again,

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Speaker 3: and I like that they say the truth, You're not

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Speaker 3: the burden that you think you are, And more often

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Speaker 3: than not, that is the fear that drives us to

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Speaker 3: go overboard for me specifically, and I've said that to

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Speaker 3: many people. I've had to explain if you don't invite

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Speaker 3: me to something, I don't show up because I assume

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Speaker 3: you don't want me there, And oftentimes it's more of

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Speaker 3: the oh, yeah, I.

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Speaker 1: Just automatically thought you knew you were invited type of conversation.

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Speaker 3: You're better explicitly invite me, because if not, I'm gonna

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Speaker 3: say they don't want me or they don't and then

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Speaker 3: that job, since doude they don't like me, I'm annoying

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Speaker 3: that fire again.

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Speaker 1: The spiral that happens.

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Speaker 3: And then that same article says learning to ask for

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Speaker 3: help and allowing your partner to do things for you

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Speaker 3: is vital to unwinding the belief you created all.

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Speaker 1: Those years ago.

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Speaker 3: As you you're ultimately learning to trust again. And yeah,

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Speaker 3: that's that big conversation. Trust that this person will be

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Speaker 3: there for you, Trust that you are worthy of support,

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Speaker 3: and that it does not take anything away from you.

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Speaker 1: Is that balance? If I let this person do this

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Speaker 1: for me, does it make me look weak? Yeah? Or

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Speaker 1: is that allowing me to be loved? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: And I think also to going back to a recent episode,

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Speaker 2: a recent happy hour you did. It can manifest in

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Speaker 2: friendships as well, and sometimes in the in my case

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Speaker 2: in the like not asking for help, some of my

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Speaker 2: friends are actually kind of hurt by that, like, you know,

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Speaker 2: like so it it is a balance, like if I

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Speaker 2: don't truly wanted any help, and I'm good, that's one thing.

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Speaker 2: But if I'm not asking for it because I don't

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Speaker 2: want to bother you, and then the friend finds out,

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Speaker 2: it's like, well I could have helped, that would have

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Speaker 2: been fine, right, And then they're they're feeling kind of like, well,

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Speaker 2: they feel kind of bad because I don't trust them

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Speaker 2: and I have to ask. So there's like no real

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Speaker 2: easy answer in that. But just I it is a

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Speaker 2: balance of asking yourself. You know, it would be nice

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Speaker 2: to have help. There are people that would be happy

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Speaker 2: to help me. Yes, Annie, it's yes, Samantha. Also, well,

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Speaker 2: thank you for coming down this road with me. And

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Speaker 2: eventually I think we are going to come back to

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Speaker 2: the hyper codependence, which is the opposite reaction. But I again,

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Speaker 2: like I said, I saw this on TikTok and I

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Speaker 2: was like, well, I got called that.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna call everybody else out too, as as you should.

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Speaker 1: That's silent goes well, y'all with me. Thanks for doing that.

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Speaker 2: Well, listeners. If you have any thoughts on this, please

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Speaker 2: let us know. You can email us at Stuff Media, Mom,

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Speaker 2: Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us on

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Speaker 2: Twitter at mosta podcast, or on TikTok and Instagram at

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Speaker 2: stuff I Never Told You. We're also on YouTube. We

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Speaker 2: have a tea public store, and we have a book

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Speaker 2: you can get wherever you get your books. Thanks as

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Speaker 2: always too, our super producer Christina, our executive producer, and

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Speaker 2: our contributor Joey. Thank you, and thanks to you for

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Speaker 2: listening stuff I Never Told you this prediction of iHeart Radio.

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