Speaker 1: Hello, everyone, Welcome to another edition of Nerdificence. I am
Speaker 1: one half of your host, Danny Fernandez, sitting across from
Speaker 1: me as always. How's everybody doing? He looks, we look shnazzy,
Speaker 1: very snazzy. We like match too, I know. And then
Speaker 1: I have this excuse to break out. I can't raise
Speaker 1: this too high. Not that you haven't like, I don't care.
Speaker 1: I've I've bared all at all times, especially my friends.
Speaker 1: That sounds bad. You know what we have that giggle
Speaker 1: on here is you know where you love her. She's
Speaker 1: a pop pop culture critic, amazing, very thoughtful writer. It
Speaker 1: is our friend Joel Monique. Hey, I'm so excited. Hey,
Speaker 1: how's it gone? I see you came prepared. You you
Speaker 1: have readings, dramatic readings for you guys, especially as we
Speaker 1: start to talk about the differences and similarities between the
Speaker 1: show and comic book. Well, speaking of the show, we
Speaker 1: normally talk about what we're geeking out about, but this
Speaker 1: week we're geeking out about the Watchman show. Yes, Regina King,
Speaker 1: and yeah, yeah, it's a lot. There's a lot happening
Speaker 1: to show. Our good friend Cheyenne took me she was
Speaker 1: working for HBO at New York Comic Con and so
Speaker 1: they had the Watchman premier party there and Regina King. Listen,
Speaker 1: famous people in public, they just stand out in a
Speaker 1: way that we don't understand. Like she like, even when
Speaker 1: I'm done up, like she was just glowing, Like they're
Speaker 1: just on a different level than the rest of us.
Speaker 1: That's that's true. That's true. But it's just like she
Speaker 1: was wearing regular clothes. I feel like, but she Oh
Speaker 1: my gosh, it was just radiant. Um, I feel that way. Yeah,
Speaker 1: when I run into I don't know, like Chris Hemsworth
Speaker 1: or something. Yeah, yeah, it's Regina. I feel like, specifically
Speaker 1: as a post Oscar glow, like the women have babies
Speaker 1: and they're glowing. She had an Oscar and she was like,
Speaker 1: I have arrived finally, Holly would like, notice isn't recognizes.
Speaker 1: She also talked about how she feels like she's really
Speaker 1: coming to her own now. I mean, she's obviously been
Speaker 1: around for a while. One of my earliest memories of her,
Speaker 1: and this just goes for when I was growing up,
Speaker 1: is um, she was in a Cinderella story. Do you
Speaker 1: remember that? That was so long ago? Um, that was
Speaker 1: like my Lizzie McGuire days. Um, but yeah, she she's
Speaker 1: been a phenomenal actress for so long. But she said,
Speaker 1: like having kids like that, really being a mother like
Speaker 1: changed her acting style. Testing. I cannot speak to um
Speaker 1: post children, pre children or Gina King performances, but I
Speaker 1: do think that there's a level of comfort in this performance,
Speaker 1: level of like inherent talent and badass three and sort
Speaker 1: of like how did it take us this long to
Speaker 1: realize she should be a superhero. She's just so false,
Speaker 1: being like dark and brooding but also like really on
Speaker 1: her detective stuff. Um, it's it's incredible. She had better
Speaker 1: go all the nominations. That would be very upset about it.
Speaker 1: We'll see, we've been we've been uh burned before. Alright,
Speaker 1: let's just jump into the nitty gritty and start with
Speaker 1: the comics. So Watchman is a comic book MAXI series
Speaker 1: by the British creative team of that of writer Alan
Speaker 1: Moore and artist David Gibbons, and colors John Higgins. It
Speaker 1: was published by d C Comics in nine eighty six
Speaker 1: in seven, and collected in a single volume edition in
Speaker 1: nineteen eight seven. Watchman originated from a story proposal More
Speaker 1: submitted to d C featuring superhero characters uh that the
Speaker 1: company had acquired from Charlton Comics. As Moore's proposed story
Speaker 1: would have left many of the characters unusable for future stories,
Speaker 1: Managing editor Dick Giordano convinced Moore to create original characters instead.
Speaker 1: See why he kind of blows out the world at
Speaker 1: the end of Yeah, he actually originally so More wanted
Speaker 1: comics from MLJ and he couldn't use those, So then
Speaker 1: they recommended Charlton Comics would had which had just been
Speaker 1: acquired by d C, but then he couldn't use those either,
Speaker 1: So then you just ended up kind of creating characters
Speaker 1: based off of their characters. This actually becomes like an
Speaker 1: extreme blessing for the comic book because I think if
Speaker 1: you're taking those original characters that come with all of
Speaker 1: that backstory, which you know, it can be fun to
Speaker 1: to see alternative universes, um. But to get this straightforward
Speaker 1: look at superheroes, he was able to take multiple heroes
Speaker 1: and make a Rory Shack and comment on what kind
Speaker 1: of comics are you reading, our kind of stories are
Speaker 1: we telling our kids, and who do we view as heroes?
Speaker 1: I think it works much better as a metaphor and
Speaker 1: using the characters a symbolism as opposed to taking those
Speaker 1: direct characters and using them in that way. Yeah. So
Speaker 1: Watchman depicts an alternate history where superheroes are real in
Speaker 1: real life. What it would be like where superheroes emerged
Speaker 1: in the nineteen forties in nineteen sixties sounds a lot
Speaker 1: like The Incredible It is a little a little bit. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's what I thought of whenever Bradbird had that, because
Speaker 1: it's like set in that fifties style and it's a
Speaker 1: world in which what would happen with superheroes, Well you
Speaker 1: would probably sue them. There would be you know, like
Speaker 1: it's not as pretty as we think it is. It's
Speaker 1: like Superman coming to save the day and we all
Speaker 1: love him. It's like, no, they like, actually, this is
Speaker 1: what it would be like in real life. I often
Speaker 1: think of that with Batman. It's like, would we really
Speaker 1: be okay with a billionaire dressing up in rubber? Definitely
Speaker 1: not beating up people. I mean that was the one
Speaker 1: like good takeaway I did have for The Joker where
Speaker 1: it really did uh kind of addresses that like income
Speaker 1: disparity and got them and like how they viewed it,
Speaker 1: and I was like, that would be I mean, I
Speaker 1: don't think people are ready if we truly do like
Speaker 1: view that, if we got more than just that surface
Speaker 1: layer of like there's poverty here, Yeah, because that that
Speaker 1: would be cool to see how Batman deals with that.
Speaker 1: I feel like the cartoons actually did try and lightweight
Speaker 1: tackle it by making Bruce Wayne so much of a
Speaker 1: lanthropist and it's like, uh so, I think we can
Speaker 1: go beyond that and like see you like you know,
Speaker 1: something like the Court of Vials but real life, like
Speaker 1: you go in and trying to like break down this structure.
Speaker 1: But that's another DC comic. Here we're talking about Watchman,
Speaker 1: which has that if you wanted that insight on the world,
Speaker 1: then uh you go, then Watchman is going to go
Speaker 1: even deeper. Alan Moore very better and I mean that
Speaker 1: in a good way. He has he's better or awake
Speaker 1: if he see Well. What's also funny is like you know, um,
Speaker 1: but he's like like British right, and it's so like
Speaker 1: a lot of these quote unquote takes that he has
Speaker 1: a Watchman have to do with you know, overseas, and
Speaker 1: I think that's which you know, we're talking about Stephen
Speaker 1: King not liking the Shining Uh. Alan Moore did not
Speaker 1: like the uh Watchman. He didn't like V for Vendetta either,
Speaker 1: doesn't this series either? Yeah, well, I mean and he could.
Speaker 1: I could care less about the series because mostly because
Speaker 1: I think we did better with this series what we're
Speaker 1: supposed to do. Because yeah, you're you're a Londoner. You
Speaker 1: that's your world. This is America. So if we're really like,
Speaker 1: I like that he's a Londoner coming to like make
Speaker 1: a comment on America. I like the the idea of
Speaker 1: going to another place and examining it with fresh eyes.
Speaker 1: And I feel like he's not so to me, it
Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily feel like he's taking the pits out of America.
Speaker 1: You know. It doesn't seem like it's it's degrading to
Speaker 1: America more. It's just like a this is sort of
Speaker 1: the all consuming fear that we all have. And I
Speaker 1: think for a lot of pop culture things, you can
Speaker 1: distill it to America because most of the pop the
Speaker 1: world's pop culture, you know, originates here, like the big stuff,
Speaker 1: the stuff that goes global. I think what I was
Speaker 1: going to say to your point to both of y'all's
Speaker 1: point is that he said it's not anti Americanism, but
Speaker 1: anti Reaganism. So he did want to specify and and
Speaker 1: it definitely that breathes through and I think that's fine too.
Speaker 1: But when you have like a British why London or
Speaker 1: come in, you always have oversight because the one thing
Speaker 1: that Brits love to like try and like harp on
Speaker 1: is like America's racism, totally trying to sidestep the fact
Speaker 1: that they went ahead Africa. As a Nigerian, I always
Speaker 1: have to point that out. But you know, but I
Speaker 1: you know, I will pat them on the back that
Speaker 1: you know, Uh, they still do put more interracial couples
Speaker 1: on TV than we have in ever period. I remember
Speaker 1: when I first watched Doctor Who. My first tweet after
Speaker 1: it was like there was more interracial couples on TV
Speaker 1: in one season than we've had in the history of Americans.
Speaker 1: I feel that way about Black Mirror. I'm like, I've
Speaker 1: never seen this many black and brown people period on
Speaker 1: any shows, live in their lives, hanging out and being
Speaker 1: tortured by internet. Um So, Joel, can you walk us
Speaker 1: through some of the iconic characters from The Watchman and
Speaker 1: what they're personalities are, their history. Sure, let's start with
Speaker 1: the Minutemen. This is the original batch of Watchman characters.
Speaker 1: That's you're still expector is your um night Owls? Who
Speaker 1: else is on that team? Oh, my gosh, Billy Banks
Speaker 1: or something like that. He's like basically a mascot for
Speaker 1: the Bank, um, which is amazing. Um. The Minutemen are
Speaker 1: an interesting team. They're started by Hooded Justice. Um kind of.
Speaker 1: He's sort of the Hooded Justice is the first superhero period.
Speaker 1: He stops robbery at a like local Delhi. People are like,
Speaker 1: what is going on? They read the Superman comic. Comic
Speaker 1: comic comes out. He's like, Yo, heroes are dope. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna do that. I don't like defend people. But Hooded
Speaker 1: Justice is sort of like their take on Batman kind
Speaker 1: of in that he's like, I will never reveal my identity.
Speaker 1: Nobody don't talk to me about anything. I have very
Speaker 1: specific missions. He doesn't really get along with the rest
Speaker 1: of the team. He's gay. Um, he's with another member
Speaker 1: of the team. They fight a lot. It's messy. That's
Speaker 1: really cool because I didn't know that about him. So
Speaker 1: this was from the eighties. It's when he or the
Speaker 1: Minute Man and come out like goodness testamentality here. Okay,
Speaker 1: So nineteen thirty something we have the original Superman. The
Speaker 1: Minutemen are like just a few years after that, so
Speaker 1: we're talking late, I think is when he was really queer. Okay,
Speaker 1: so that was part of the reason. I think he
Speaker 1: was not taking off the mask um. And it's like
Speaker 1: they would push him and Silk Specter together in photos
Speaker 1: to make it look like he wasn't. There would be like, oh,
Speaker 1: rumors they're dating Um, and that's how they tried to
Speaker 1: pull that off. But eventually I was founded in nineteen
Speaker 1: thirty nine during the Golden Age, being he does he
Speaker 1: started to night The Minute Men are started in thirty nine. Yes,
Speaker 1: there's a Keen Act of seventy seven. And then in
Speaker 1: the fifties when Carthier is happening, all the superheroes get
Speaker 1: called in and they're like, yo, you guys need to
Speaker 1: tell us who you are. We don't like that you're
Speaker 1: out here fighting crime. That's not really due process of law.
Speaker 1: It's problematic. He was like, listen, not doing it disappears
Speaker 1: um Stil Expector was the first one to kind of
Speaker 1: realize that you could make money off of this, and
Speaker 1: she was like, listen, I can market myself. People like
Speaker 1: it will sell dolls. She tried to make a movie.
Speaker 1: It bombed horribly, and after the disbanding of Superhero, she
Speaker 1: didn't do really well. Her daughter later takes over her
Speaker 1: mantle to varying degrees of effect. Um Night all former
Speaker 1: police officers second Superhero, inspired by Hooded Justice a story.
Speaker 1: He reads it in the paper. He's like, wow, you
Speaker 1: see Superman. He's like, he has to want to do this.
Speaker 1: He writes a book that tells all of them that
Speaker 1: it men's dirty secrets, including the fact that the comedian
Speaker 1: tried to rape Silk specter, so that really hurts the team. Um.
Speaker 1: He's like, yeo, I'm done, I'm out, I'm coming clean.
Speaker 1: They're coming after us anyway, what's the point um, And
Speaker 1: then I'll just finish up with comedian. There's others, but
Speaker 1: we can you guys can read up on this. Comedian
Speaker 1: is like basically a soldier for hire. He starts by
Speaker 1: being this kind of like wears a black mask, very
Speaker 1: like leathery sort of vibes going on. Um, and then
Speaker 1: once the government is like listen, no more superheroes. You
Speaker 1: can come work for us, though, because you're pretty good
Speaker 1: at your job. They dropped him in Vietnam. He is
Speaker 1: having so much fun killing women and children, very disturbing
Speaker 1: until Dr Manhattan is created on accident, joins him and
Speaker 1: now he's a human walking bomb and he is a god.
Speaker 1: He ends the war, and that is sort of what
Speaker 1: starts the retro direction of the history in Watchman. It's
Speaker 1: basically like a parallel universe. But if people became heroes
Speaker 1: and Dr Manhattan en did the war, so America wins
Speaker 1: in Vietnam. It's like a rousing victory. We pick up
Speaker 1: Vietnam as a state and then from there we're like
Speaker 1: booming with technology. Dr Manhattan introduced us this holy world
Speaker 1: of like text. We have electric cars. Now computers are faster.
Speaker 1: It's like a glorious kind of Golden Age with heroes
Speaker 1: back on control. Everyone feels pretty good. Then in the
Speaker 1: seventies you have the next round of superheroes, so you
Speaker 1: have a new night Owl. So it comes back Dr
Speaker 1: Manhattan's fighting. It doesn't last very long. Governments like you
Speaker 1: can't do this. We have actual people to uphold the law,
Speaker 1: and that's what we enter here. Rorshack is like, listen,
Speaker 1: I'll give an e foot any of you say, I'm
Speaker 1: going to still go out here where my weird changing
Speaker 1: mask and uh be a hero? Um, And the book
Speaker 1: kind of takes a really sharp look at again who
Speaker 1: we call a hero? Oh yeah, I forgot to say so.
Speaker 1: The Watchman term comes from a Latin phrase that essentially
Speaker 1: translates as who watches the Watchman? Yes? Right, and it's
Speaker 1: and it it is like that general. I think the
Speaker 1: mythos of the book is just basically Lex Luthor's like
Speaker 1: initial mythos against you know, against Superman, which is like, what,
Speaker 1: we shouldn't trust this powerful alien like in in a
Speaker 1: normal world, Lex Luthor isn't really that much of a
Speaker 1: bad guy. He's just someone with sense where it's like, no,
Speaker 1: we shouldn't let this superpowered alien just do whatever he
Speaker 1: wants and then that drives him mad, uh and money
Speaker 1: and all that. But it is funny how like Lex,
Speaker 1: Yeah he isn't. No, he has a point and yeah
Speaker 1: it is an insight. So the just to talk about
Speaker 1: all the information that went down, is that just sprinkled
Speaker 1: throughout the book or is that all supplemental stuff as well,
Speaker 1: or so if you get I've only ever read Watchman
Speaker 1: as the completed novel, so I know some people who
Speaker 1: have read it separately. I think they still had all
Speaker 1: this little bit of information in the back of each comic.
Speaker 1: There's like either a big magazine or a book that's
Speaker 1: between that gives you all this like very rich history.
Speaker 1: Phil for example, the first night Owl he wrote, The
Speaker 1: parts of the book he wrote are in the first
Speaker 1: two comics, and then there's um, there's a secondary pirate
Speaker 1: comic they write that sort of parallels all of the
Speaker 1: things happening inside of the story. It's about um, a
Speaker 1: big ship that souls basically is that's the one that's
Speaker 1: kind of like popping up throughout the throughout the story. Right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the kid at the newsstand, he's always listen to the
Speaker 1: news stand treat it which if you're poor and do
Speaker 1: you every went to a comic bookstore just to read
Speaker 1: the comics, he could relate. That was my story. Um,
Speaker 1: and the floor of borders putting bookstores out of business.
Speaker 1: That's what millennials did. Listen, you would have liked to
Speaker 1: have read those. It wasn't just you, it was all
Speaker 1: of us. I don't know why Borders never stopped us
Speaker 1: from reading all those manga on the floorboards, like just
Speaker 1: droves of kids just sitting in the Walden's books, Borders,
Speaker 1: Barnes and Nobles. Really not a single employee said anyway.
Speaker 1: The employees were not paid enough to care in the
Speaker 1: same way that my saw pomping movies at the AM sales,
Speaker 1: like God, bless you have fun kids, I don't have
Speaker 1: the time. Always that one though, there's always that one
Speaker 1: who just feels it's going to get them employee of
Speaker 1: the try it, and then they don't get employee of
Speaker 1: the month. And then they they realize everyone has to learn.
Speaker 1: Everyone does one extra thing at there, like part time
Speaker 1: job and get no recognition for it. And that's when
Speaker 1: you learn, oh, this is useless. I remember, I think
Speaker 1: about mine every Halloween. At Halloween horn nights. I was
Speaker 1: so trying to like I was like trying to stand
Speaker 1: out and be like the good one. And like if
Speaker 1: I knew, I knew if I stood out, you know,
Speaker 1: they would they would keep me. And there was a
Speaker 1: guy all he was he was just trying to bring
Speaker 1: in a pipe with some weed. You don't have a
Speaker 1: good night. I don't know why you would try and
Speaker 1: be high in a scary place. That is my worst nightmare.
Speaker 1: But he was. He was doing it, and I caught
Speaker 1: him and he was like he was a young brother too.
Speaker 1: We looked and he tried to keep gave him the
Speaker 1: bro like come on, bro, and I was like, I
Speaker 1: need a job, bro, And I poured him and they
Speaker 1: patted me on the back and then they let me
Speaker 1: go at the end of the season. And that's when
Speaker 1: I learned, never would never show out, never break color lines,
Speaker 1: always employee lines. We have to take a really quick break.
Speaker 1: And they were going to hop back into more of
Speaker 1: The Watchman right after this, and we're back. Was there
Speaker 1: any other characters that we okay, okay, so let's just
Speaker 1: to wrap. There are so many characters, guys, so I apologize.
Speaker 1: So just to recap in our current day, we have
Speaker 1: a version of night Owl. He's new. We're younger, frashure.
Speaker 1: This is all he's ever wanted to do. We have
Speaker 1: Silk Specter. She dresses in the yellow and black. She's
Speaker 1: the daughter of the old Silk Specter. She doesn't really
Speaker 1: want to be here, but she's doing it anyway. When
Speaker 1: she was sixteen, she started looking up with Doctor Manhattan,
Speaker 1: who was like late thirties early forties when she was sixteen?
Speaker 1: Is this from the text the original text very clearly
Speaker 1: she was sixteen free. I was sired to read it
Speaker 1: twice like wait what, um so that happened? Um, but
Speaker 1: they're together for twenty years. It's still weird, but context
Speaker 1: I don't know. Um So. Then Dr Manhattan, big blue
Speaker 1: guy likes to walk around naked and basically a bomb. Um.
Speaker 1: Then you have Rorschach. He has the as iconic. He's
Speaker 1: got the trench coat, the hat, he's sort of designed
Speaker 1: out of off the question, which is a character from DC. UM.
Speaker 1: He had his face changes and uh, he was abused
Speaker 1: as a child, he had a horrible life, and he
Speaker 1: thinks of the mask as his face. Uh. Then you
Speaker 1: have Azzymandias, who it sort of becomes a bad guy.
Speaker 1: Spoiler alert. If you're like liking everything we're talking about,
Speaker 1: like maybe I'll go read this comic, stop like don't listen.
Speaker 1: Um okay, okay, alright, we're good. We just want to
Speaker 1: make sure maybe sometimes you change mind way okay. Um.
Speaker 1: This guy basically thinks he's the next coming of Alexander
Speaker 1: the Great. Um. He is a narcissist of the highest order.
Speaker 1: Um is born wealthy, gives all of that up, tracks
Speaker 1: through the desert, follows like Alexander's path, regains all of
Speaker 1: his money, becomes like this marketing genius basically, so he's
Speaker 1: a billionaire. He owns a huge company. He predicts trends.
Speaker 1: At the end of this story, Oh and a year
Speaker 1: before the Keen Act, which outlawed superheroes forever, he revealed
Speaker 1: his identity, which is really important to note because this
Speaker 1: is sort of what makes people trust him. They're like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: he was honest with us, and he told us who
Speaker 1: he is, and he's a good guy's a philanthropist, and
Speaker 1: he's in good shape, and he's white and he's blond.
Speaker 1: He's the best. Also, want to say, the privilege of
Speaker 1: like giving all your money away and still being able
Speaker 1: to get it all back. It was wild. It's a
Speaker 1: wild journey. And so and he's kind of like a
Speaker 1: suave ladies like you, women would want to be with him,
Speaker 1: but we don't see him with a lot of ladies.
Speaker 1: Like that's heard of the persona that he has. Uh.
Speaker 1: In the end, he decides that what the world needs
Speaker 1: UM the whole book is based off the fears of
Speaker 1: an atomic bomb an atomic attack again. Um, and what
Speaker 1: do we do when we're afraid? So his solution is,
Speaker 1: if we're all afraid of different countries and borderlines, what
Speaker 1: if a giant space squid fell from the sky, landed
Speaker 1: on New York killed half the population, start talking about
Speaker 1: three million, three and a half people. Uh, and then
Speaker 1: we would be afraid of space and so we would
Speaker 1: like band together and it picking worked. People were like, yo,
Speaker 1: screw that space alien. We're john with technology, Like, we
Speaker 1: don't want none of that anymore. We need a new
Speaker 1: cowboy in office. Um. So Robert Redford runs for president
Speaker 1: at the end. Um And basically yeah, then he sort
Speaker 1: of gets to get away with it. So so gets
Speaker 1: away with it, right, So here's the thing in the text.
Speaker 1: The final scene is Rorschach, who's been keeping a journal
Speaker 1: of everything, discovers, Oh, this is what he's gonna do,
Speaker 1: writes all of that downtown to into a conservative newspaper.
Speaker 1: Now that's all you know. So it's a very much
Speaker 1: a cliffhanger at the end of the book. If you
Speaker 1: choose to follow the stories Cannon as it travels to television.
Speaker 1: We have answers about how that ends now if you
Speaker 1: want to transition, but I want to talk about too.
Speaker 1: I'm just for some reason, I'm forgetting Dr Manhattan's arc.
Speaker 1: What what ends up happening with? Oh yeah, okay. So
Speaker 1: Dr Manhattan basically decides to leave because he doesn't understand
Speaker 1: humanity anymore. He's become just like higher thought. Basically, he's
Speaker 1: like a dead body has the same atoms as an
Speaker 1: alive body, so there's literally no difference to me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's a galaxy brain like the version I'm thinking so
Speaker 1: much further beyond humanity. So he goes to Mars and
Speaker 1: he builds himself little palace. He's having good time there,
Speaker 1: but there is one person he cares about. That's Laurie,
Speaker 1: oksal expector. So he comes back down, grabs her, whisked
Speaker 1: her off to Mars, and it's like, you know, if
Speaker 1: you can convince me to care about these humans, maybe
Speaker 1: I'll come back. Now. Dr Manhattan sees in multiple times,
Speaker 1: so basically anything that's happening to him, it's all happening
Speaker 1: to him at once. If that makes sense. What happened
Speaker 1: eight now it all he can see it all at
Speaker 1: the same time happening to him because in the future
Speaker 1: and the past. Um. But he convinced me, basically convinced me.
Speaker 1: So just as a note on what you just said. Visually,
Speaker 1: it's really cool because you're having these multiple animals showing
Speaker 1: like these different time frames and it's translated within that
Speaker 1: way instead of just outright saying it. As you're watching
Speaker 1: these different moments happen. Listen, I'll read you three panels
Speaker 1: real quick. And this this is Dr Manhattan talking. He's
Speaker 1: on Mars. He's looking at a photograph of him and
Speaker 1: his first wife Janie. He says, the photograph is in
Speaker 1: my hand. It is the photograph of a man and
Speaker 1: a woman. They are an amusement park in nine nine.
Speaker 1: In twelve seconds time, I dropped the photograph to the
Speaker 1: sand at my feet walking away. It's already lying there
Speaker 1: twelve seconds into the future. Ten seconds now. The photograph
Speaker 1: is in my hand. I found it in a derelict
Speaker 1: bar at the Gilla Flatts test based twenty seven hours ago.
Speaker 1: This is how he sees all of time. It's either
Speaker 1: happening now and it's all at the same time. So basically,
Speaker 1: Lori's like, listen, if you love me and the plausibility
Speaker 1: of all of time that I came into being, Like,
Speaker 1: you have to see the miracle that is humanity and
Speaker 1: want to protect that. And he's like, okay, kinda yeah.
Speaker 1: He pops back down to Earth, but he lands like
Speaker 1: two seconds after the squid has already done its job.
Speaker 1: The squid lives for like six seconds, three seconds and
Speaker 1: then dies immediately. Um. It turns out Azzy's head like
Speaker 1: these Basically he said up a bunch of different satellites
Speaker 1: and stuff that would block his ability to see in
Speaker 1: the future, and what he what specifically Ozzy was doing.
Speaker 1: I want to say that I am so floored by
Speaker 1: the fact that he's so inhuman and he still gets
Speaker 1: a ton of booty, Like I mean, I'm listening to
Speaker 1: this and I'm like, this man is a human calculator
Speaker 1: and then he's just like scoring hot, Like we just
Speaker 1: want someone to hold us and respect us, Like, truly,
Speaker 1: how many of of your friends are chasing emotionally unavailable men? Mean,
Speaker 1: I mean, listen, you know what he does. Though he
Speaker 1: probably keeps all his appointments, he doesn't go like he
Speaker 1: probably basicle, if you're super emotional, I prefer a practical
Speaker 1: partner who's like, let's just look at the He's probably
Speaker 1: very time oriented. He can also be multiple places at once,
Speaker 1: so he didn't have as many hands as you would
Speaker 1: need to get the job. He's not going to send
Speaker 1: you ah y w y d text like you know,
Speaker 1: he's going to be considerate anyways, I'm sorry, I'm just
Speaker 1: looking at the pictures of the women that he's that
Speaker 1: makes you feel any better. Lorie leaves him at the
Speaker 1: end of the comic and is off with her owl
Speaker 1: guy um, and they have like a very domestic ending.
Speaker 1: It's cute, um, but to your point, he comes back,
Speaker 1: um Rorschach cannot take the injustice of Azzi Mandius winning.
Speaker 1: So uh, Manhattan snaps him dead basically, and his like, listen,
Speaker 1: you can't be here ruining our plans. We're trying to
Speaker 1: achieved piece at a horrible cost, but it's achieved. Let's
Speaker 1: not because that's what happened. Is Manhattan's kind of like, oh,
Speaker 1: I get what you did, and yeah, He's like, I
Speaker 1: wouldn't have done it, but we're here now, so what
Speaker 1: about yeah, and is losing his mind crying in the
Speaker 1: snow and he's like all right, by Yeah, begs him
Speaker 1: for death. He's like, just do it because this world
Speaker 1: this freaking nuts. Uh. And that is what document. Then
Speaker 1: he goes back to Marks, He's like, yeah, I really
Speaker 1: don't care about anything. Happy to hear Pete out. So
Speaker 1: we have to talk about just a couple of other
Speaker 1: comic stuff before we hop into the movie, which I
Speaker 1: know if he wants to talk about. Um. So there
Speaker 1: were nine prequel mini series in so if you do
Speaker 1: love the comedian I don't know for some reason, and
Speaker 1: you want to read I mean his prequel, um, there's
Speaker 1: an entire comic devoted to him. There's also Doomsday Clock,
Speaker 1: which I heavily, I actually really enjoyed, although it's not
Speaker 1: over like they were dealing with a lot of delays,
Speaker 1: So now you know, okay. So essentially Doomsday Clock is
Speaker 1: was written by Jeff John's and uh art by Gary
Speaker 1: Frank and Color Sprad Anderson. So it was essentially a
Speaker 1: world where what if Dr Manhattan like left this universe? Uh.
Speaker 1: And but what happened with it is that it was
Speaker 1: supposed to affect the rest of d C comics. However
Speaker 1: the rest of d C comics has kind of like
Speaker 1: moved on, So it's like, what are we doing with
Speaker 1: this storyline? Uh. Something cool that happened when the original
Speaker 1: Watchman came out was that it kind of made the
Speaker 1: other DC comics a little bit darker. Uh. This was
Speaker 1: a super dark comic and it kind of influenced Superman
Speaker 1: and Wonder Woman and Batman at the time. So they
Speaker 1: ended up doing a one shot It's called DC Universe Rebirth,
Speaker 1: and that was too essentially essentially explained that Dr Manhattan
Speaker 1: was the reason why that was happening. Yeah, so um,
Speaker 1: and I know this because I talked to our friend
Speaker 1: Hector Navarro, who is like encyclopedic knowledge, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: explain this universe rebirth. It's a fun It's a fun
Speaker 1: rebirth because if you think about the theme of time
Speaker 1: and how the importance of it throughout Watchman and the
Speaker 1: idea that all Moore did fundamentally change the face of comics,
Speaker 1: not yes the Watchman, because now on a literary scale,
Speaker 1: it's comics are now considered, uh being cosidered period, where
Speaker 1: before they were like child's play and I was like, no,
Speaker 1: look great art. Um. So, between this series and Swapman,
Speaker 1: not only did things get darker, but we also started
Speaker 1: taking comic books more seriously. We started looking at artists
Speaker 1: more seriously, and I think that there's something kind of fun,
Speaker 1: especially with the difficult relationship Alan Moore And do you
Speaker 1: see that out of them being like, well, well we'll
Speaker 1: pay homage like many many years too late and after
Speaker 1: making very terrible deals with you, but well we'll try to,
Speaker 1: you know, honor you in in this way. Um. I
Speaker 1: kind of wish I had stuck around and it would
Speaker 1: have been interesting to put that whole layer up. But
Speaker 1: I think there's also a lot of pressure for writers
Speaker 1: to constantly considering this cornerstone work that is constantly making,
Speaker 1: you know, maybe not the greatest statements about superheroes in general.
Speaker 1: To try to work under that umbrella all of the
Speaker 1: time on something you genuinely love might be challenging. Definitely.
Speaker 1: Do you both also know about the button them Facebook? No,
Speaker 1: the comic, Oh yeah, but please explain that to to people,
Speaker 1: Smily is buch is like iconic. I didn't know what
Speaker 1: it was for like the first twelve years of my life.
Speaker 1: The lore of it, to the best of my understanding,
Speaker 1: is this, The smiley face is one of the most
Speaker 1: recognizable symbols. Uh in the United States at the time,
Speaker 1: and because he's a comedian, they were sort of looking
Speaker 1: for like a badge or a symbol for him. Every
Speaker 1: different hero got a badge or a symbol because, um,
Speaker 1: they're trying to god to market them to the larger public.
Speaker 1: So he became the Smiley Face. But if you know
Speaker 1: anything about the comedian, you know that he's laughing at
Speaker 1: literally everything, and that gets very disturbing up to a point. Um,
Speaker 1: and so the opening image for the comic sort of
Speaker 1: that smiley face flattered with blood. It's on the cover. Um,
Speaker 1: it kind of just represents both the comedy and the
Speaker 1: gore that you're about to get into. Yeah. So there
Speaker 1: was a comic that came out called The Button. It
Speaker 1: was comic book crossover. It was actually a storyline where
Speaker 1: Batman in the Flash worked together to uncover the truth
Speaker 1: behind the mysterious button that they found, or that Batman
Speaker 1: found in the bat Cave. Uh So, there's so much
Speaker 1: are honestly behind the Watchman. But we also had a
Speaker 1: film that had a lot of It was released in
Speaker 1: two thousand nine and directed by Zack Snyder, and it
Speaker 1: was based off the comics. I mean, really, there's only
Speaker 1: one thing to really talk about because it is like
Speaker 1: a pretty faithful adaptation. Uh, and you know it has
Speaker 1: it's one of those one uh one of the it's
Speaker 1: the one uh broken clocks being right twice where his
Speaker 1: Zack Snyder's dark vision, you know, totally fits this comic.
Speaker 1: And and this was two thousand nine, so we haven't
Speaker 1: seen in a million times. It was very fresh, you know,
Speaker 1: we're very ready for it. So it's great. Yeah, there's,
Speaker 1: like I said, really nothing to say because it falls it.
Speaker 1: There was only one change and that's why I had
Speaker 1: to bring it up because I have to talk about
Speaker 1: how much I dislike this change. And change was they
Speaker 1: removed the squid that we talked about and everything that
Speaker 1: we explained and changed it to Dr Manhattan exploding in
Speaker 1: New York. And this is what was supposed to, uh
Speaker 1: make you know, all the states that were at odds
Speaker 1: come together. And you know because Doctor Manhattan quote unquote
Speaker 1: went rogue, which which if you know anything about just
Speaker 1: the way politics and the blame game that comes with
Speaker 1: disasters go, that would that just wouldn't happen. And that's
Speaker 1: just a complete lack of like if that happened, no
Speaker 1: one would assume that doctor Man hadn't went wrong rogue,
Speaker 1: it would be looked at as the us at fault.
Speaker 1: It would probably be speculized that maybe they were testing
Speaker 1: it to use on one or the other one, maybe
Speaker 1: even furthering this arms arms race. So the squid was
Speaker 1: perfect as is. And the reason I disliked it is
Speaker 1: because it felt like that very early early two thousand
Speaker 1: nine comic book movie thing of being of thinking, oh,
Speaker 1: this was too silly and it only works in a comic.
Speaker 1: It was exactly that. I remember reading a lot of
Speaker 1: interviews with that kinding like it we can't really do that,
Speaker 1: Like who would a believe it? Or be like I
Speaker 1: think it we came about. I mean, I'm trying to
Speaker 1: thou nine graphics and like what that would physically look like.
Speaker 1: But if you look in the comic, I think it's
Speaker 1: like only two or three panels and all you're seeing
Speaker 1: our tentacles. You have a big eye and a couple
Speaker 1: of tentacles on a building. You have my attention. You know,
Speaker 1: it's been a long day. I have to make our
Speaker 1: all right. Well that and that's pretty much the movie. Okay,
Speaker 1: So the budget was one thirty hundred thirty eight million.
Speaker 1: It actually did make a hundred one five point three
Speaker 1: million of box office, so it did make its money
Speaker 1: back and more. Nice. I mean, it's funny because I
Speaker 1: I've have a strong film opinion about superhero movies, and
Speaker 1: it's funny to think back in those days when you
Speaker 1: were making only like eighty million more when you make
Speaker 1: a superhero movie. Uh you know. I believe superhero movies
Speaker 1: are guaranteed hits now because we they've been so consistent
Speaker 1: for so long that it's trusted that people will at
Speaker 1: least see it, even if it's a spectacle, which is
Speaker 1: why movies like Joker and Venom still do really well,
Speaker 1: even though like everyone's like this, even people online are
Speaker 1: like this can't be that great. Uh so. And my
Speaker 1: my pitch before we move on is that instead of
Speaker 1: trying to hire these like big time you know directors
Speaker 1: who like do it, I think you should pilot newer
Speaker 1: directors on movies and let them. Here's my pitch to
Speaker 1: to double down on that and give them a smaller budget,
Speaker 1: makes small budget, intimate stories with superheroes. We do not
Speaker 1: need an apocalypse at the end of every superhero movie.
Speaker 1: I'm so tired of I mean that's why Aunt Man
Speaker 1: was so refreshing. Yea, you went from these big thing
Speaker 1: to like a small heist and a guy who loves
Speaker 1: his daughter. Same with Homecoming felt so good. Jason Aaron,
Speaker 1: who did that really good run of Hawkeye? I think
Speaker 1: so yeah, do that. I don't understand why that is
Speaker 1: not a movie we've been got yeah yet or even
Speaker 1: like how we don't have a really good like Kamala
Speaker 1: khan As, like you know, a young girl just in
Speaker 1: high school fighting a local bag guy with a killer soundtrack,
Speaker 1: like done, wrap it up. I'm ready. I'm waiting for
Speaker 1: because I think whatever Kamalakan movie comes out, it needs
Speaker 1: to be shot like a teen movie. That's what I'm saying. Like,
Speaker 1: I don't understand how doesn't have an entire line of
Speaker 1: teen movies. I'm so sorry this is really off tracked,
Speaker 1: but just like really quick between her and America Javas
Speaker 1: and both Spider Man, like you've got an entire and
Speaker 1: then you have uh, oh my gosh, what are their
Speaker 1: Young Justice version? Oh you're talking about the New Avengers
Speaker 1: have a Hawkeye and I mean technically Captain Marvel yes,
Speaker 1: in the Little Queer babies give them to me. Um, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that. I think what they're doing though, is
Speaker 1: they want to make sure that everyone goes to Disney Plus.
Speaker 1: So that's why a lot of those and I think
Speaker 1: to their meredit, I mean, for the Mandalorian, they're giving
Speaker 1: them a movie budget, and it's yeah, it's it's really
Speaker 1: cool seeing the stuff that they that they have planned
Speaker 1: for Marvel and taking these like side stories that won't
Speaker 1: be these huge movies, but can explore these stories which
Speaker 1: will hopefully, yes, we'll lead to New Avengers and me
Speaker 1: being cast as cap uh you know, just you know,
Speaker 1: I was you know, I was running out of black
Speaker 1: heroes and then now we're getting so deep in there
Speaker 1: that we can go like new powerman Young Uh. I
Speaker 1: feel bad for forgetting his name, Well it was was
Speaker 1: it Justice? I don't know, Uh, are you talking about Aquel? No,
Speaker 1: I'm talking about even though he were like no, no,
Speaker 1: it's the leader of Young Justice and he's the Isaiah Bradley.
Speaker 1: That Isaiah Bradley, his grandson Elijah Bradley, patriot of the
Speaker 1: Young Avengers. So I was super doubling that they Avengers
Speaker 1: and and Justice have black leads. Were still off tract,
Speaker 1: but it's Young Avengers, not New Avengers. I misspoke and
Speaker 1: Young Justice. I see why. We're okay anyway, Yeah, we digress.
Speaker 1: We have to take a really quick break and then
Speaker 1: we're going to hop into the show. Now if you
Speaker 1: haven't seen it, We're not going to give any huge
Speaker 1: spoilers away. We're just going to kind of talk about
Speaker 1: we're gonna set it up and kind of talk about
Speaker 1: some of the issues that it tackles. Right after this
Speaker 1: and we're back. So Joel, who you are actually doing
Speaker 1: recap for if you have watched the show, or once
Speaker 1: you do watch the show, if this makes you want
Speaker 1: to watch it. Where can people catch your recap? A
Speaker 1: V Club TV club about nine oh five every day
Speaker 1: after the episode airs. Um, we get into heavy spoilers,
Speaker 1: so you know, it's a recap com prepared, but also
Speaker 1: trying my best to try to give you guys enough
Speaker 1: history from the original comic and talk about what's being
Speaker 1: laid over and it makes some wild predictions at the end. Um.
Speaker 1: The message boards on avy Club are amazing, so if
Speaker 1: you guys want to join the conversation, they're giving me
Speaker 1: so much new information. Damon Lindelof. He loves this story
Speaker 1: so much. She's got a quote actually on the back
Speaker 1: of my comic. Uh, the greatest piece of popular fiction
Speaker 1: ever produced. So does a direct quote from Damon about Watchman. Uh.
Speaker 1: This comes out two thousand five, I think so, almost
Speaker 1: twenty years ago. Um. It's amazing to me that he's
Speaker 1: been able to produce such a high quality, such a
Speaker 1: thought provoking, thoughtful, loving like homage to the original comic,
Speaker 1: and still make it polished and updated four viewers today,
Speaker 1: like even just two episodes in. It's it's quite an accomplishment.
Speaker 1: I'm loving the TV series. Yeah, so can you set
Speaker 1: it up for us? What are we walking into thirty
Speaker 1: five years into the future? Roughly? It' um, yeah, from
Speaker 1: the future of watch From the future of Watchman. So
Speaker 1: the Watchman d nineteen eighty five, that's when the squid drops.
Speaker 1: Eleven two is the date they used to describe the event,
Speaker 1: much like our nine eleven. Um. You enter in Tulsa, Oklahoma.
Speaker 1: The cops have just faced what it's called the White Night,
Speaker 1: which is a night where a local white supremacist terrorist
Speaker 1: organization invades all the cops homes and does their best
Speaker 1: to assassinate, murder, remove all of them in a single night. Uh.
Speaker 1: They don't fully succeed, but they get pretty close. The governor,
Speaker 1: along with the police, decide that the best option is
Speaker 1: for them to be masked. So they're essentially a police
Speaker 1: force of superheroes. So they don't view themselves like that
Speaker 1: at all. They're like, we wear the mask for our
Speaker 1: own protection because people try to assassinate us. Um, some
Speaker 1: stuff you can get off of. There's a thing called
Speaker 1: pd PDA which is run by Dale pet of the FBI.
Speaker 1: UM the Operation against Mass Heroes something I can't remember
Speaker 1: the acronym, but basically, the FBI runs an organization that
Speaker 1: helps make sure any vigilantes are immediately snuffed out before
Speaker 1: they take charge. Um. And there you get a bunch
Speaker 1: of like really great information mostly. Uh, what I want
Speaker 1: to focus on today here is that after Doctor Manhattan
Speaker 1: goes back to Mars, there's in the middle of Watchman
Speaker 1: there's a theory that he's causing cancer to those closest
Speaker 1: to He invented a lot of technology that helped move
Speaker 1: them up. The world's up technology technologically, and now people
Speaker 1: are afraid of technology. So in the show, there are
Speaker 1: beepers and still a phone book, and mostly people use
Speaker 1: landlines because they've become terrified of technology and the damage
Speaker 1: that it can do, so much so that companies have
Speaker 1: to be like, listen, we have a new computer and
Speaker 1: you need to use it. It's not dangerous, we promise you,
Speaker 1: like please, please, please, don't be afraid of the technology.
Speaker 1: We need to move forward. It's also the reason cops
Speaker 1: are kind of stuck in the past. Not enough crimes
Speaker 1: are getting solved because we haven't updated to a computer system,
Speaker 1: which means we're still doing everything by hand with old
Speaker 1: giant binders. It's messy, old school police work, which makes
Speaker 1: for a cool, gritty like crime drama because it gives
Speaker 1: you that old school feel and it doesn't feel forced.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry because I review these. I've seen some of
Speaker 1: head and I want to make sure and I give
Speaker 1: you guys, any kind of spoilers or anything. Well, I
Speaker 1: can talk about a side thing that isn't necessarily a spoiler,
Speaker 1: because it wouldn't be an episode of Nerdificent if we
Speaker 1: didn't ruin some Nerds stuff with our s J you
Speaker 1: crap like this takes place in Tulsa, which is known
Speaker 1: for the bombings of Black Wall Street. And I heard
Speaker 1: that they actually do some like some homages akin to
Speaker 1: that to kind of, you know, actually like bring this
Speaker 1: because I think a lot of people don't know that
Speaker 1: that happened. I mean, I definitely was late in life
Speaker 1: when I found it. I spoke about it as if
Speaker 1: I've already died. Uh, But like it's it's it's a
Speaker 1: it's it's funny because it just kind of is a
Speaker 1: such a response to theo why won't the black community
Speaker 1: pull themselves up by their bootstraps? And it's like, WHOA
Speaker 1: we were? And every time we do it, white people
Speaker 1: are there to, you know, come along and just burn
Speaker 1: it to the ground. And and so sorry I didn't
Speaker 1: Well no, let's let's talk about that if you. Because
Speaker 1: this show Watchman has a ninety eight percent certified fresh
Speaker 1: on the Tomato meter, that is by critic. Almost a
Speaker 1: hundred eighty nine reviews have gotten it to audience score
Speaker 1: forty three percent. Um. When you look at WHOA, why
Speaker 1: do we think that critics have Yeah, And it's because
Speaker 1: it is, um, this is what we're talking about. I
Speaker 1: am so upset. I don't know people who vote it
Speaker 1: thumbs down because it's because here's the thing. I am
Speaker 1: patting DC on the back for tackling this. And on
Speaker 1: Immigrant Day I retweeted it they said, immigrants make the
Speaker 1: multiverse better hashtag immigrants. Yes they did. I am so
Speaker 1: happy that they are, like, f y'all, we can't say
Speaker 1: the real thing. Um, you know, they're telling these stories.
Speaker 1: But one thing I kind of want to Sorry, I
Speaker 1: didn't mean to cut you off. I want to touch
Speaker 1: on because something you were saying and with the tomato
Speaker 1: meter that made me think is like the thing that
Speaker 1: that gets me is like, I think, like the people
Speaker 1: who are like dumbing it down and saying as forced
Speaker 1: s j W. They aren't even people I think are
Speaker 1: fully on the right. It really are is this group
Speaker 1: of people who are quote unquote apathetic, who are quote
Speaker 1: unquote in the middle, who are quote unquote And then
Speaker 1: every time I see that sentiment, it always comes. It
Speaker 1: seems to come from that group more than anything. And
Speaker 1: it's very funny because it goes back to that thing
Speaker 1: of like when they say when you don't uh, it's
Speaker 1: the Martin Luther King quote where everyone uses where like
Speaker 1: if you if you don't pick a side, you have
Speaker 1: chosen the side of white supremacy. But it's like, but
Speaker 1: it really does feel that way where it's like you're
Speaker 1: the like cool, you don't want to pick a side,
Speaker 1: but if someone wants to speak out against the you know, oppressor,
Speaker 1: then then you have a problem. I've definitely had some
Speaker 1: of these comments and you know chatter, I mean, like
Speaker 1: I just don't understand. And a lot of times it's
Speaker 1: so funny because their critiques are so very vague. They're
Speaker 1: like something's just like I just feel it's very contrived. Yeah,
Speaker 1: thought was put into it. It is contrived. So I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: but did you read the original comics by a man
Speaker 1: who literally people were saying was anti American. But there's
Speaker 1: also the thing that people walked away thinking Rorschack was
Speaker 1: the hero of this story. So a lot of people
Speaker 1: are not getting and so let's let me wrap. Okay.
Speaker 1: So Nicole Cassell, who was the director of the pilot
Speaker 1: and episode two, the way she shot that opening scene
Speaker 1: was like you felt history come alive in a way
Speaker 1: that I don't think we often get, especially for like
Speaker 1: black people. Like it's sort of it reminded me of
Speaker 1: um Spielberg's saving Private Ryan. Those which are just very
Speaker 1: intimate portrayals of what chaos and catastrophe looks like. Um
Speaker 1: and I think that what the show was giving us.
Speaker 1: In we saw Night Sister, that's Regina King's character, visit
Speaker 1: a museum recently and like learn you could basically just
Speaker 1: look up family history in there, which is I'm like,
Speaker 1: if you know your family history, if you can trace
Speaker 1: it back, that's incredible. So many Black Americans cannot. UM
Speaker 1: my family we've gotten back to I want to say,
Speaker 1: my three grades, so we can track two decades back
Speaker 1: in two people into slavery, back to grandmother's past. That
Speaker 1: there's just not records. We just we were nameless on paper,
Speaker 1: being shifted around in different places. You can't track your
Speaker 1: history like that. So if there was a way to
Speaker 1: have a DNA database to sort of start examining, you know,
Speaker 1: who were your people and where do they come from
Speaker 1: and what does that mean? Like, my god, it's amazing
Speaker 1: the idea of like I know, redfordations are rubbing people
Speaker 1: really the wrong way. That's Robert Redford gives black people
Speaker 1: reparations in the show. And it's still beautiful. Now they
Speaker 1: live in like this thriving metropolis of black people so
Speaker 1: many black extras on this damn show just looking amazing
Speaker 1: living in this like stunning space, a space that I
Speaker 1: think typically would have been gentrified by white people is
Speaker 1: what it looks like, but it's got a whole one
Speaker 1: to like a thriving black community. And I think that
Speaker 1: for David, he was like, if you don't know David
Speaker 1: Lindloff is um creator of Lost, He did um and
Speaker 1: having a brain fart y'all. Lost, Oh Leftovers, Um soosere
Speaker 1: are his two big shows. He does these really thoughtful
Speaker 1: examinations of what it means to basically exist, Like what
Speaker 1: does it mean to be a person, a good person?
Speaker 1: How do we handle ourselves in crisis? For him to
Speaker 1: turn his eye and be like, so, like, what have
Speaker 1: black people been doing under crisis in America forever? Starting
Speaker 1: in but then also going back in the second episode
Speaker 1: to look at black people fighting for um America in
Speaker 1: World War One and what that was like when you
Speaker 1: could not get equal service in America but we're dying
Speaker 1: for your country. How does that like rek havoc on
Speaker 1: the soul? And then more importantly, what does that do
Speaker 1: to your children and their children? And how do we
Speaker 1: carry that? He said very openly, like he was nervous
Speaker 1: about it, but that as a person in a position
Speaker 1: of power, he felt it important. And as a black
Speaker 1: person who loves comics, who's always, you know, very excited
Speaker 1: to go to these movies and see these TV shows
Speaker 1: or whatever, to feel that Lens specifically turned to my
Speaker 1: community in a way that is not looking down upon
Speaker 1: or feeling bad for but just simply examining the circumstances.
Speaker 1: My god, well, to me, it's so telling whenever, like
Speaker 1: you said, examining the circumstances. And when people I literally
Speaker 1: I was reading reviews of it and one said preachy
Speaker 1: and another says forced. And I'm like, why is it
Speaker 1: that when we tell our stories it's forced. It's because
Speaker 1: they're not thinking about it, so it feels forced. It's like, oh,
Speaker 1: because never in your life do you think about this,
Speaker 1: because it doesn't feel forced when people when when you
Speaker 1: watch success and you're like, oh, they're not they're forcing
Speaker 1: this idea that being rich is so bad. Also, don't
Speaker 1: say you have a hard time understanding black stories when
Speaker 1: you're watching all those rich people and you ain't never
Speaker 1: been rich in your life. You know, like it's just
Speaker 1: like it's people that people are always reaching and making
Speaker 1: some sort of excuse or you know, b as to
Speaker 1: like to like try and like shoot down things that
Speaker 1: are trying to say something and to like like and
Speaker 1: we set this a few episodes back to like really
Speaker 1: try and like look at a medium that was really
Speaker 1: uplifted by two Jewish dudes from New York and try
Speaker 1: and be like, oh, it's s j W. Force. It's
Speaker 1: like now it's been literally creating Superman to go fight
Speaker 1: like a monster that was attacking them directly. Like, Also,
Speaker 1: what do you think the Justice League or any of
Speaker 1: these are they are warriors fighting for social justice? Like
Speaker 1: like we get those comments sometimes too iffy and I
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, we're talking about superhero culture. What do
Speaker 1: you think superhero culture is. It's a team of of
Speaker 1: superheroes who are taking on who are trying to write
Speaker 1: the injustice is done to marginalize groups. Well here's what
Speaker 1: what what it is and uh and then after this
Speaker 1: weekend close, But here's what it is is that the
Speaker 1: way every person who reads superhero, the way we the
Speaker 1: idea that we have of a superhero is someone who
Speaker 1: fights for what's important. The problem that that we have that.
Speaker 1: I think that is being lost in translation is the
Speaker 1: idea of what's important to people. If if if the
Speaker 1: if you know, if equality and freedom for all people
Speaker 1: isn't important to you. Every time you see those heroes
Speaker 1: fight that it seems like they're doing something weird, but
Speaker 1: it's like, no, bro, you just never realize. You just
Speaker 1: never paid attention because you've only cared about yourself. You've
Speaker 1: only cared about the things affecting you, and you've let
Speaker 1: that be an excuse and let that make you into
Speaker 1: a whiney, shriveled up person who honestly can't be that good.
Speaker 1: Because if you cannot care for the people who are
Speaker 1: surrounding you, if you cannot care for your fellow human being,
Speaker 1: you have no humanity and you are a villain. You're
Speaker 1: not a hero. Yeah, And I want to say to
Speaker 1: the people that are like, well, just don't change the
Speaker 1: source material. I would like you to go back in
Speaker 1: the time when the source material was made in the
Speaker 1: thirties and forties, and we were not allowed in those stories.
Speaker 1: We were not allowed to be on screen, we were
Speaker 1: not allowed to be on the cover. So yeah, now
Speaker 1: it's going to be reflective. This we were always a
Speaker 1: part of the world, we just weren't allowed to be
Speaker 1: reflected in it. Now we are so sorry that they're
Speaker 1: infusing us into the story. We've always been here, we
Speaker 1: just weren't allowed to be on the cover. How do
Speaker 1: you want better? We'll do whatever we want to the
Speaker 1: source material. You go read the source material. You want
Speaker 1: to read that, go read that. It's there for you.
Speaker 1: It's not getting deleted. I can't encourage you enough if
Speaker 1: you're enjoying this conversation to just keep watching Watchman, because
Speaker 1: the way they're examining the history of comic books and superheroes,
Speaker 1: especially in some of those later episodes, I just you guys, shaken, shaken.
Speaker 1: There's a moment I had to pause and write a review.
Speaker 1: I skipped four reviews to write a review. I was
Speaker 1: so moved by an episode. I was like, you did that, Like,
Speaker 1: I just think it's so important that if you're not
Speaker 1: ready to or don't want to examine your white privilege,
Speaker 1: and or if it makes you uncomfortable to see black
Speaker 1: and brown people in heroic roles, or if it makes
Speaker 1: you uncomfortable to see the destruction and the devastation that
Speaker 1: they faced to take a second, and ask yourself, just
Speaker 1: why are you uncomfortable with that? And do that on
Speaker 1: your own without ruining or or trampling on other people's
Speaker 1: excitement to just see themselves on a screen. You see
Speaker 1: yourself all the time. Take yourself out of it. I
Speaker 1: mean even I think I even want to, even though
Speaker 1: that is a very important message, and yes, clock that
Speaker 1: I even want to take like five steps back and
Speaker 1: just say, if you see someone enjoying something, let them
Speaker 1: have that. Why do you have to Why do you
Speaker 1: have to input the why you didn't like the thing
Speaker 1: they like to the conversation. That's never been fun, It's
Speaker 1: never been cool. And people didn't do that back in
Speaker 1: the day because people wouldn't talk to you. But now
Speaker 1: you have a platform where you can just insert your
Speaker 1: voice and you know, and and and disappear into the
Speaker 1: night behind your anime avatar. It's like if someone's enjoying something,
Speaker 1: and there's tons of things that people enjoy that I
Speaker 1: do not care for, or there are tons of people
Speaker 1: and music rappers, you know, artists that people love and
Speaker 1: I do not for the like of me half of
Speaker 1: a smidgeon, And you know what I do, I just
Speaker 1: keep scrolling pushing because I followed too many anime boobs
Speaker 1: to be wasting time. I'm going with some money on Twitter,
Speaker 1: I do want to say, um, one of these reviews
Speaker 1: said that it was to woke. On that note, Joel
Speaker 1: too woke, Joel, where can everyone catch you? Yeah? Follow
Speaker 1: me over at Twitter at Joel Monique because we find
Speaker 1: all of the things A V club, TV club or
Speaker 1: I hopefully we're revealing a couple more shows coming up.
Speaker 1: I really love that community. So if you want a
Speaker 1: twin in the conversation, we'd love to have you. And finally,
Speaker 1: in the next magazine on Got Guys, uh Cultured Magazine,
Speaker 1: the cover issue it's gonna be um Lena Wait and
Speaker 1: Melina Metsukas. I got to sit down with both of
Speaker 1: them and talk about their new movie, which we will
Speaker 1: be talking about for literally ever. It's so good. It's
Speaker 1: called Queen and Slim. It comes out November sixteenth. I
Speaker 1: think check your local listings by a ticket, be the first.
Speaker 1: Don't wait a second weekend or the ending will be
Speaker 1: spoiled for you. I'm at miss Danny Fernandez and just
Speaker 1: another heads up, I have that Fathom event. If you
Speaker 1: love the Twilight Zone I think they're showing four of
Speaker 1: the original Twilight Zone episodes. It's November four at local theaters,
Speaker 1: so check it out. I think you can just google
Speaker 1: Fathom event twilight Zone and I pop up to talk
Speaker 1: a little bit about Rod Serlin before it starts and
Speaker 1: or in between the episodes. I don't know, you're one
Speaker 1: of those things and you know me, uh next, or
Speaker 1: you're listening to this. So this weekend, if you're in St. Louis,
Speaker 1: me and those guys and white women will be at
Speaker 1: the Flyover Comedy Fest doing some improv. And after that,
Speaker 1: I'm probably gonna be eating some barbecue. So catch me
Speaker 1: at a barbecue spot munching down or on stage, whatever
Speaker 1: have you. I mean, look, we'll have to discuss because
Speaker 1: I'm back on ketos, no sauce on it. I gotta
Speaker 1: I gotta eat it dry. God, Like we always say,
Speaker 1: stay nerdy, stay too woke.