Speaker 1: This is kJ Live with Chris john Sailin and chrits
Speaker 1: Is having conversations with influencers in the sports world and
Speaker 1: entertainment in this strain. Now here's Chris Johnson. You're now
Speaker 1: tuned into kJ Live. Today's guests on the show. The
Speaker 1: senior media insider for ESPN, Adrian worsnarlsko words. What's good
Speaker 1: about man? Chris? Uh, I'm doing great? How are you doing? Man?
Speaker 1: The weather is nice. It's supposed to be about eighty
Speaker 1: something degrees out here today and the sun is behind me.
Speaker 1: So I'm feeling great. Man. It's a beautiful day. I'm
Speaker 1: talking to you, man, Come on, this is awesome. Absolutely
Speaker 1: absolutely yes? Sorry, So which man? I want to jump
Speaker 1: right into it. Um, Yesterday you reported for ESPN that
Speaker 1: Ben Simmons so the Philadelphia seventy sixers will not report
Speaker 1: the training camp and he has no intentions of reporting
Speaker 1: the training camp this season or playing for the Sixers ever. Again,
Speaker 1: I guess the first thing that came to my mind
Speaker 1: was what are the pros to this type of move
Speaker 1: for Ben Simmons? I mean, Chris that we've never really
Speaker 1: seen anything like this. This doesn't happen in the NBA.
Speaker 1: Now we know we've seen certainly playing guys push their
Speaker 1: way out of a place, and sometimes you can come
Speaker 1: in and be less than committed to what's going on
Speaker 1: and and make life difficult for your team and eventually
Speaker 1: get your trade. Uh that's not what is happening here.
Speaker 1: It's just I'm not coming and also doing it with
Speaker 1: four years left on your deal almost a hundred and
Speaker 1: fifty million O to him thirty three million this year. Uh,
Speaker 1: it's it's a risky strategy because you're going to likely
Speaker 1: cost yourself money. We'll see how much money. But you know,
Speaker 1: Ben Simmons has been adamant that that the next time
Speaker 1: he wears an NBA uniform, it's gonna be somebody other
Speaker 1: than the Sixers. And it's a little bit of a
Speaker 1: game of chicken, because we know the Sixers are gonna
Speaker 1: be diminished without them, Like they're not nearly the same
Speaker 1: team without Ben Simmons. And forget about what happened in
Speaker 1: the Atlanta series, right, like we we know what how
Speaker 1: many wins and what he's worth, certainly through the regular season,
Speaker 1: and they were a one seed last year, and seeding
Speaker 1: is going to be important, of course in the East,
Speaker 1: which is really good this year, and so you know,
Speaker 1: can he wait them out and get them to Maybe
Speaker 1: the Sixers get off to a bad start and pressure
Speaker 1: increases to to get something for him, or you're waiting
Speaker 1: out the teams who would want to trade for you
Speaker 1: to get them. Maybe they get off to a bad
Speaker 1: start and there's pressure increasing on teams that were already interested,
Speaker 1: or maybe new teams to say, we better go out
Speaker 1: and do something big. We gotta shake it up, We've
Speaker 1: got to improve. And then the off frs get better
Speaker 1: for Simmons and maybe that gets a deal done. Or
Speaker 1: you just sit there away from the team, not getting
Speaker 1: paid and the team takes you through February to the
Speaker 1: trade deadline. So certainly this is unlike anything we've seen.
Speaker 1: I think it's gonna be fascinating how it plays out.
Speaker 1: You know, the league does not like this. It's certainly
Speaker 1: it's not good for the league. I mean, we're being
Speaker 1: honest about it. Um, they don't want to see a
Speaker 1: precedent set with players under contract just not reporting, and
Speaker 1: I don't know that this would do that. I think
Speaker 1: this is a unique situation. I don't think I don't
Speaker 1: think this is gonna be something where players are looking
Speaker 1: and going, okay, is that a strategy for me? I
Speaker 1: don't think that's going on. I do think it's kind
Speaker 1: of independent and unique, but it's definitely something we haven't seen.
Speaker 1: I guess I'm a little taken it back, just on
Speaker 1: how bad things actually got in Philadelphia to push Ben
Speaker 1: Simmons to this point. I mean, he's willing to fork over,
Speaker 1: give up two hundred and something thousand dollars per preseason
Speaker 1: game and all the extra sanctions on top of the
Speaker 1: league sanctions that Philly has in their organization. Woach, if
Speaker 1: you're Daryl Morey, you're not. I don't feel like he's
Speaker 1: in a good position to me, other than obviously it's
Speaker 1: a bad look for the franchise. Your your your top guy.
Speaker 1: But you don't have to harry up and move this guy.
Speaker 1: You can say you know you're gonna find him, You're
Speaker 1: gonna be able to keep them and hold him. Do
Speaker 1: you think Simmons will become a locker room or chemistry
Speaker 1: issue even but he won't be around the team. So
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to figure out how is Darryl morri
Speaker 1: or the Sixers in a bad spot here? Other than
Speaker 1: losing somebody that doesn't want to be with their Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I think for Dariel Morey, the hope for the
Speaker 1: Sixers was that Ben Simmons would come back and play,
Speaker 1: play well and his draft excuse me, his trade stock
Speaker 1: would would improve. They didn't like the offers they had
Speaker 1: for him this summer. Uh maybe they're asking for too much.
Speaker 1: But it's really hard. And this is the other thing
Speaker 1: that's a little bit unique to the situation, Chris. You
Speaker 1: typically don't see players of this caliber being traded from
Speaker 1: contending teams one seeds or two seeds. They're not trading
Speaker 1: their star players. They resign them, they build around them.
Speaker 1: And when you see a player like let's go back
Speaker 1: through some you know, recent big NBA trades, whether it
Speaker 1: was a James Harden and Anthony Davis, uh um, whomever,
Speaker 1: it's teams headed toward a rebuild. They want young assets,
Speaker 1: they want picks. Philly needs to get back a star
Speaker 1: level player to plug right in with Ben or two
Speaker 1: really good players, and they want draft picks. And so
Speaker 1: it's harder because the teams who are training for Ben Simmons,
Speaker 1: you know, they're trying to add them to the core
Speaker 1: they have. They're not trying to trade their best player
Speaker 1: for Ben Simmons. They're trying to trade maybe their second
Speaker 1: or third best player. And in most cases, Philly is
Speaker 1: looking at that going, well, that's a downgrade from Ben Simmons.
Speaker 1: We don't want to downgrade because we're trying to win
Speaker 1: around Joel right now, who's in his prime. That complicates this,
Speaker 1: and so you have a very shortlist of players, um,
Speaker 1: who really makes sense that you feel like, maybe we
Speaker 1: don't win the trade, but at least we're breaking even.
Speaker 1: We have something comparable. And Ben's unique talent. I mean,
Speaker 1: I know we talked about his but he doesn't do
Speaker 1: well a lot, but we nobody does do well and
Speaker 1: it does impact winning. Yeah, and we haven't seen too
Speaker 1: many six ten guys that that see the floor, have
Speaker 1: the i Q at the level that he does and
Speaker 1: can play the game the floor game. Then defensively, he's
Speaker 1: a monster. Um. Interesting stuff going on in Philly, but
Speaker 1: staying in the Eastern Conference, one of my favorite teams
Speaker 1: last year to watch was the Atlanta Hawks. I mean,
Speaker 1: I love the job that they did in the second
Speaker 1: half of the season, especially after you know Nate McMillan
Speaker 1: took over. I think they had the second and third
Speaker 1: best record in the NBA. Do you think that that
Speaker 1: success they achieved last year, you think it's sustainable, it's
Speaker 1: gonna transfer over to this year? Or was last year
Speaker 1: sort of a fluke and sort of where they peaked? Now?
Speaker 1: I do, Chris, I think, and I think we'll see
Speaker 1: a much better regular season team. Listen, they were you
Speaker 1: said it, they were definitely a better team, and name McMillan,
Speaker 1: but they were also a more healthy team later in
Speaker 1: the year. And you've got, Um, you just you saw,
Speaker 1: certainly Trey Young took it to another level. You saw
Speaker 1: the impact he had in the playoffs. We know what
Speaker 1: that does for a player's confidence to go do what
Speaker 1: he did in the postseason. Um, that's gonna make you.
Speaker 1: You just come back a better player that that just
Speaker 1: gives you great belief, It gives the group around him
Speaker 1: great belief. And then you just see what I think
Speaker 1: Travis Shlank has done there is I mean, he's drafted
Speaker 1: really well. They've got really good role players. You know,
Speaker 1: Clint Capella, who signed an extension this summer, just such
Speaker 1: a good anchor for them defensively in the middle. You
Speaker 1: know John Collins with a new deal, uh Bogdanovitch, you
Speaker 1: hope for your Atlanta that that he's healthy this year.
Speaker 1: Certainly he missed a lot of time Gallant Donald Daniel
Speaker 1: Gallinari missed a lot of time last year with the
Speaker 1: ankle injury. Reddish too, and Reddish too, and he's not
Speaker 1: really been able to get traction yet on his career.
Speaker 1: But a very talented player, and so you know, you
Speaker 1: you go down. Kevin Herder is going to be a
Speaker 1: really good player. He's up for his rookie extension. He
Speaker 1: saw he played well in the postseason for them. I
Speaker 1: guess one of my questions though with that, because you
Speaker 1: got a connunche him. Now, if you're the Hawks, you
Speaker 1: paid Capella, you paid Trade, you paid John Collins. But
Speaker 1: now if you want to keep a Herder and and
Speaker 1: Reddish and and you know, extend that everybody, you can't
Speaker 1: pay everybody. So what are they gonna do? Like how
Speaker 1: can they can? So I guess that's my question or
Speaker 1: something that I would be watching for is what they're
Speaker 1: gonna do. That's gonna be interesting because they're a very
Speaker 1: good team, and like you had mentioned, with the injuries,
Speaker 1: I mean they made it all the way to the
Speaker 1: Eastern with the finals, Eastern Conference Finals with guys that
Speaker 1: were banged up, hurt, and Bogey. To me, is is
Speaker 1: a major X factor type. But I am. I love
Speaker 1: the Hawks. John Collins versatility. He really showed up and
Speaker 1: took a leap last year. UM. Another team who I
Speaker 1: wanted to ask you about. I got two of my guys,
Speaker 1: two of my bruins in the back court, the Chicago Bulls.
Speaker 1: UM they signed Zach Levine in the offseason. De Mar
Speaker 1: de Rosen Vossovich is there? Talk about your thoughts on
Speaker 1: the Bulls, Billy Donovan in that Eastern Conference this season. Yeah, listen,
Speaker 1: certainly some more offensive weapons, you know, bringing in Alonzo Ball,
Speaker 1: bringing into Mar de Rosen, you know, Vussovich and Zach Lavine.
Speaker 1: We're kind of trying to figure it out in that
Speaker 1: short window. You know, Zach went out with the with
Speaker 1: COVID and lost the stretch of games. I kind of
Speaker 1: took Chicago out of the playing race, and so, uh,
Speaker 1: it's certainly a different group and and a more talented group.
Speaker 1: How they fit together will be interesting. I think it
Speaker 1: is a challenge for Billy Donovan. UM. To figure out
Speaker 1: the pieces they are, how they played together. Maybe it
Speaker 1: doesn't happen from day one, but that's a team that
Speaker 1: you would imagine gets better as we go next season.
Speaker 1: And uh, you know certainly was put together to be
Speaker 1: in the playoffs and to be back in the post season.
Speaker 1: And um, listen, I think I'll be really interested to
Speaker 1: see how Alonzo Ball leads that team. You know, he
Speaker 1: he really wanted to be with the Bulls. Uh. He
Speaker 1: had hoped that they would get a deal done at
Speaker 1: the trade deadline. They didn't quite get that done obviously.
Speaker 1: Now Lori marken In, who was a high pick for um,
Speaker 1: you know, came into Jimmy Butler trade on Draft night.
Speaker 1: Obviously he's in Cleveland now. But I think Chicago is
Speaker 1: one of the teams. They're just like when you look
Speaker 1: at that list of most interesting teams, how this thing
Speaker 1: could go. I think they might be the team, but
Speaker 1: maybe the most variants you could see where they could
Speaker 1: hit it with that group and have a lot of success.
Speaker 1: You could also look and go do all the with
Speaker 1: all those pieces fit together, how's that group played together?
Speaker 1: Because there's a lot out to you know, you've got
Speaker 1: some young guys you've got guys later in their career. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, early in the season last year that was
Speaker 1: the thing that played really fast with Zach and then
Speaker 1: Bosvig comes in and the pace slows down a little bit,
Speaker 1: and then you're you're trying to figure out how do
Speaker 1: you balance that with two really key offensive players who
Speaker 1: played differently. So, but I think Billy Dunovan certainly an
Speaker 1: outstanding coach. They got really good leadership there um our
Speaker 1: tourist Karnisavists and Mark Eversley, really good front office and
Speaker 1: and so I do think it's gonna be a fun
Speaker 1: team certainly to watch. Yeah, I'm also looking forward to
Speaker 1: the development of Pat Williams. He was a really intriguing
Speaker 1: root and that's the wild card there. You you said it,
Speaker 1: Chris and you know, young player last year. You talk
Speaker 1: to people and they seem in practice and he was
Speaker 1: one of those young players who every day would do
Speaker 1: one thing where you'd go, holy cow, this guy could
Speaker 1: be And then you saw him in Summer League take
Speaker 1: a step and more aggressive. And that's what I think
Speaker 1: they want to see him as. Come out person like,
Speaker 1: see his personality, come out, see him, you know, take
Speaker 1: the initiative to do more, and so how do you
Speaker 1: balance that with Patrick Williams with a DeMar de Rosen
Speaker 1: who's used to listen having shots and scoring the ball,
Speaker 1: and Zach Lavine who's going to score the ball. Um.
Speaker 1: But I think Patrick Williams, you know, a high lottery
Speaker 1: pick for them, Like how that plays out? I think
Speaker 1: will be um really uh important short term and long
Speaker 1: term because I think there's a lot of hope that
Speaker 1: Patrick Williams is really gonna that that he could be
Speaker 1: a cornerstone guy for them. Yeah. I think so, he's
Speaker 1: got all He's got all the goods. Man. When you
Speaker 1: look at the job that Atlanta has done and putting
Speaker 1: pieces around Trey Young, and then you kind of juxtaposed
Speaker 1: that next to the job that Dallas has done putting
Speaker 1: pieces around Luca Donges. Why do you think the Mavericks
Speaker 1: haven't surrounded Luca with the necessary parts to really push
Speaker 1: put him to that Western Conference type finals type level. Well,
Speaker 1: you look at Atlanta, and so much of it for
Speaker 1: them has been hitting on the draft. Travish Lank came
Speaker 1: with a good reputation. They hired him. You know, it's
Speaker 1: funny they hired I think Travish linkin Atlanta with a
Speaker 1: thought of believing in him as a player, as an
Speaker 1: evaluator of talent. This is a guy who really grinds
Speaker 1: it on the road. And you know is that uh
Speaker 1: like just has built a really good reputation in Golden
Speaker 1: State for that in other places, comes in and really
Speaker 1: hits it in the draft, gets multiple picks and trades.
Speaker 1: You know, remember the Dan cheich Um Trey Young Draft
Speaker 1: Knight trade brought them another first round pick. And so
Speaker 1: but you hit it in the late teens with John Collins,
Speaker 1: you hit it a little bit later with Kevin Herder
Speaker 1: and Dallas. You haven't had that draft success and they
Speaker 1: haven't had necessarily the high picks either. But so much
Speaker 1: of Dallas they put in the Christaps Porzingis trade that
Speaker 1: Porzingis was the co star. He would be the complimentary guy,
Speaker 1: you know, an all star level player, very unique skill
Speaker 1: set that he'd come in and and and be that.
Speaker 1: For Luca don Chech he hasn't been healthy, Chris, and
Speaker 1: I think I think he's very talented. You saw earlier,
Speaker 1: certainly earlier in his Knicks career, where like this is
Speaker 1: a really skilled player. But but but injuries, you know,
Speaker 1: kind of those lower leg injuries have been a concern.
Speaker 1: You worry about that in a player with his frame
Speaker 1: at seven three. It's it's so I've heard good things
Speaker 1: about how he's looked this summer and can he stay healthy?
Speaker 1: So I think that's a big part of it. And
Speaker 1: then you know Tim Hardaway, who you know, ended up
Speaker 1: being much more than I thought. Listen, when they traded
Speaker 1: for Hardaway, you know, New York was getting money off
Speaker 1: and the MAVs really wanted Porzingis in that deal. And
Speaker 1: it turns out Hardaway now they resigned him again, and
Speaker 1: he's been such an important part for them. But I
Speaker 1: think that, um, you know, I think the hope for
Speaker 1: Dallas is is that. And everyone's always talking about free
Speaker 1: agency and they're not gonna have you know what, we'll
Speaker 1: see that the cap flexibility. They certainly have some Lucas
Speaker 1: deal kicks in next year his new super Max and
Speaker 1: Porzingis is on a Max deal, are Hardaway is on
Speaker 1: a big deal and and so, um, you gotta hit
Speaker 1: on picks, and um, you know, you gotta find some
Speaker 1: guys around the edges. Um you know, you know, you
Speaker 1: look at like a Utah when they bring in a
Speaker 1: Royce O'Neil like Joey, players like that who are a
Speaker 1: little bit on the fringe, who come in and become
Speaker 1: starting level players six men and and I think the
Speaker 1: really good organizations you get them on the cheap um.
Speaker 1: And that's where your evaluation, your your your player development,
Speaker 1: all those things come into play when you're trying to
Speaker 1: build a contender, because you you gotta hit on some
Speaker 1: of those guys too. Yeah, you do. Talking about free
Speaker 1: agency and the way the free agency will look in
Speaker 1: the future in the NBA, do you think that, you know,
Speaker 1: these big name guys as that they have been in
Speaker 1: the past, will be available for teams to sign. Will
Speaker 1: the free agent crop be as fruitful, as as plentiful
Speaker 1: as it has been, just because of the nature of
Speaker 1: the way that the league is kind of shifting. No,
Speaker 1: And you know, Bobby Mars had a good piece are
Speaker 1: Insider Front office inside our ESPN about that. He and I.
Speaker 1: He and I have talked a lot about that this summer.
Speaker 1: That you look at the landscape and earlier on in
Speaker 1: this collective bargaining agreement, you saw players doing shorter deals,
Speaker 1: keeping their freedom for free agency. I'm gonna do a
Speaker 1: short deal. I'm gonna keep pressure on the organization, and
Speaker 1: I'm gonna keep my options open every year. And now
Speaker 1: you're seeing players and initially that super Max didn't seem
Speaker 1: to have the appeal to the great players in the
Speaker 1: league that the owners and front office has hoped it would. Right,
Speaker 1: they wanted to incentivize players to stay where they were,
Speaker 1: so if you were with a small market team, they
Speaker 1: could pay you so much or um with a super Max.
Speaker 1: If you got if you hit the qualifications made all
Speaker 1: n B A or or m v P and and
Speaker 1: and got that, you know, you turn that one seventy
Speaker 1: million dollar deal into two oh five or whatever it
Speaker 1: would be. You're seeing that play out now more, and
Speaker 1: there's a little bit of an attitude. I think there's
Speaker 1: a lot of an attitude of I will sign the
Speaker 1: super Max now, I will fix the destination later. So
Speaker 1: if I don't like how it's going, I'll ask for
Speaker 1: a trade. But what makes less senses go into free
Speaker 1: agency and instead of taking the five year, two hundred
Speaker 1: million dollar deal that I can take with my team now,
Speaker 1: I don't know why am I gonna go do the
Speaker 1: four year Let's say the one forty deal. That's just
Speaker 1: worthless because it's you don't make as much leaving as
Speaker 1: you would stay. I'll just force a trade to where
Speaker 1: I want to go. The harder part for that, though,
Speaker 1: is when you have and you're seeing it with Ben
Speaker 1: Simmons four years left on your deal. You know, Damian
Speaker 1: Lillard has three years left on your deal. You you
Speaker 1: don't have the leverage to go where you want to
Speaker 1: go when you have a bunch of years, because anybody
Speaker 1: will trade for you. Um, when you have three years
Speaker 1: or four years left, because they know you have to
Speaker 1: play for them. Now you have one year left on
Speaker 1: your deal, or maybe two years, you're gonna be you know,
Speaker 1: maybe a small market team who would like to make
Speaker 1: a run at a big name guy says, okay, that
Speaker 1: guy is gonna leave me in a year, and he's
Speaker 1: telling me and his agents telling me, if you trade
Speaker 1: for me, I'm gone. You're gonna get nothing in return.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna walk, and all the assets you gas to
Speaker 1: trade for me, I'm gone. But when you got three
Speaker 1: or four years left on your deal, you can get traded.
Speaker 1: You may not like where you end up. You end
Speaker 1: up at another small market or a place that isn't
Speaker 1: better than what you have, And so I think that's um,
Speaker 1: that's also part of this dynamic. Absolutely Uh going to
Speaker 1: New York for a second. I just wanted you just
Speaker 1: to touch on the Knicks. They re signed what de Rose,
Speaker 1: the resigned Nerland Noel. Um, they don't have a lot
Speaker 1: of space. They resigned Julius Rando to to a very
Speaker 1: favorable deal. Um, it wasn't the max Um Mitchell Robinson
Speaker 1: coming back, he's put on fifty or sixty pounds in
Speaker 1: the off season, or the Knicks a legitimate threat to
Speaker 1: be a top four or to five seed in the
Speaker 1: Eastern Conference. I think there are a threat to be
Speaker 1: that Chris. Because the Tim Thibodeau gets a lot of
Speaker 1: gets a lot out of his group in the regular season,
Speaker 1: I think the question for them is gonna be and
Speaker 1: we saw it in the postseason last year. You know
Speaker 1: he can grind a group through the regular season. And
Speaker 1: I thought what he did last year was just really
Speaker 1: important for the organization that it just established a baseline
Speaker 1: again of competency and professionalism. And if you were a
Speaker 1: Nick fan and and you watch your team play every night,
Speaker 1: like you saw something that you hadn't seen in a
Speaker 1: long time. Right, They come to play every night, they
Speaker 1: and beat anybody. You know that Nick, I mean Nick
Speaker 1: fans for years like you might as well just go
Speaker 1: to bed early when they're out on the West coast
Speaker 1: because they're gonna get drilled out west. And that wasn't
Speaker 1: the case. They're in games, are beating people. That was
Speaker 1: really important for the organization and that's what Tom Thibodeau
Speaker 1: brought back. And then you saw in the playoffs they
Speaker 1: struggled to score. They struggled when you saw him against Atlanta.
Speaker 1: Uh when Atlanta loaded up on Julius Randall and they
Speaker 1: needed other people to make shots. They struggled having enough
Speaker 1: maybe playmakers, you know Alec Burk's comes back. Who's who
Speaker 1: was good for them last year. You know that will
Speaker 1: be the next step. But I think they did keep
Speaker 1: you know a lot of these deals this summer were
Speaker 1: really two year guaranteed deals. They weren't like it was
Speaker 1: three years with a player off team option. So they
Speaker 1: have their flexibility. I think for New York, you know,
Speaker 1: having cap space next summer doesn't really do anything. There's
Speaker 1: no big free agents. What you want to have if
Speaker 1: you're New York. You want to have picks, and you
Speaker 1: want to have some young players who developed value. Emmanuel
Speaker 1: Cook quickly with outstanding you know, Obie Topping struggled in
Speaker 1: his rookie years. Certainly they're playing a lot of veterans.
Speaker 1: And then he saw in this summer and he said, okay,
Speaker 1: Obi toppin looks like he might be ready to make.
Speaker 1: You know, that stepping a guy's second year. And so
Speaker 1: you want to develop those younger players, either for you
Speaker 1: to be part of your rotation and go forward, or
Speaker 1: if you're the Knicks right now, what you're waiting for
Speaker 1: is that next unhappy star who wants out and then
Speaker 1: you have enough assets to go get him in a trade.
Speaker 1: And so I think the Knicks are trying to balance
Speaker 1: and live in both those worlds right now. Absolutely, it's
Speaker 1: gonna be interesting in the Atlantic, UM going across the way,
Speaker 1: talk about the Nets. You know, came up short last year.
Speaker 1: UM battled through some entry stuff with their big three,
Speaker 1: made some I considered pretty big signing when in Patty
Speaker 1: else during this off season. I love Patty Mills. I
Speaker 1: love when he brings to the table on a lot
Speaker 1: of levels. What are your thoughts though, as far as
Speaker 1: the nets um actually winning this year or being the
Speaker 1: favorites to win the championship, are they they are? To me, Chris,
Speaker 1: if that team is on the floor, if they're all
Speaker 1: playing and they're all healthy, I think they're the best team.
Speaker 1: And I think there's a gap between them and everybody else,
Speaker 1: even the Lakers Milwaukee, who you know, we saw no
Speaker 1: Kyrie James Harden basically on one leg in that series,
Speaker 1: gutting it out, and then k D playing, you know,
Speaker 1: at an all world level, playing like the best player
Speaker 1: in the league. Milwaukee was certainly fortunate to get out
Speaker 1: right and beat them, and they did and went on
Speaker 1: to win the title. But I think the next team
Speaker 1: with their big three. I love the addition of Patty Mills.
Speaker 1: I thought that was one of the really good under
Speaker 1: the radar signings this offseason. I think he's perfect for them.
Speaker 1: You know, Joe Harris, I think we'll have a lot
Speaker 1: to come back and want to prove in the playoffs,
Speaker 1: he was really really consistent and good for them, and
Speaker 1: and and didn't play well in that Milwaukee series, Uh,
Speaker 1: you know that stayed with him. Who want to come back?
Speaker 1: And and he's been a really good player for them.
Speaker 1: And and you've just seen, like you know, Blake Griffin
Speaker 1: found a role there. Let's see what LaMarcus Aldridge has
Speaker 1: left coming back. Um, but I think the Nets are
Speaker 1: the best team. I thought we as we saw last
Speaker 1: year for many different reasons. It was rare to have
Speaker 1: all three of them on the court, and um, but
Speaker 1: when they're all playing together, who, like you saw right
Speaker 1: from the beginning, Harden took on that playmaking role, played
Speaker 1: in a way that was perfect for that next team,
Speaker 1: we are gonna feature Kevin Durant. Kevin Durant is the
Speaker 1: best player in the world, and I'm gonna get him
Speaker 1: the ball everywhere on the floor to make him great.
Speaker 1: And and uh and and then certainly Kyrie is as
Speaker 1: skilled of the player as there is in the league.
Speaker 1: So I think And I thought Steve Nash was really good.
Speaker 1: I thought Steve with a lot of different lineups, almost
Speaker 1: a different group every night, you know, there was a
Speaker 1: baseline of kind of how they played, and they were competitive.
Speaker 1: I thought Steve did a really good job in his
Speaker 1: in his rookie year. And he's got a good staff,
Speaker 1: and uh, they're gonna be tough if they're all on
Speaker 1: the floor. I think that that's the most underrated thing
Speaker 1: about the Nets organization, is that from top to bottom, Uh,
Speaker 1: that entire organization or like basketball dudes like my my
Speaker 1: buddy Ryan for and Kelly he's actually assistant coach out there,
Speaker 1: and you talk about Jacques von Royal, Ivy, Thiago Splitter.
Speaker 1: They are have an organization filled with just basketball guys.
Speaker 1: And I think they had a lot to do with
Speaker 1: the big threes. Ability to kind of buy into to
Speaker 1: to Steve Nash and buy into this unselfishness that to
Speaker 1: me has been the most important And the thing that
Speaker 1: stood out the most with the Nets is their unselfishness
Speaker 1: and and they love playing with each other. They love
Speaker 1: sharing the sugar, and that was the thing I was
Speaker 1: wondering where they going to ever be able to kind of,
Speaker 1: you know, get together. And they got it together quick.
Speaker 1: But again, the injuries are gonna be you know the deal.
Speaker 1: Um moving over to the West Western Conference, Man, I
Speaker 1: want to talk about the Lakers. They made some big signings,
Speaker 1: made a big trade. Um got Russell Westbrook in the building.
Speaker 1: How do you think that Russell and Lebron to ball
Speaker 1: dominant players are going to fit in with each other. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's gonna be interesting, and it's it's not really a
Speaker 1: dynamic we've ever seen. I don't know what we compare
Speaker 1: this group with in terms of like the skill sets
Speaker 1: and say, Okay, we saw it work with these guys
Speaker 1: that didn't worry. It's just a unique pairing. What I
Speaker 1: do know is that you're gonna have to fit in
Speaker 1: with Lebron. You're gonna have to figure out how to
Speaker 1: play with him, because it's Lebron James and and the
Speaker 1: part of the greatness of Lebron is his ability to
Speaker 1: elevate the people around him to to maximize as unselfish
Speaker 1: as he is and and and what an incredible passery
Speaker 1: is and how and I Q unlike any um you
Speaker 1: know at the very very top, he sees the game
Speaker 1: in ways that that almost nobody else does. And even
Speaker 1: as that as Lebron loses some athleticism in his mental
Speaker 1: late thirties, he compensates with it because he's not He
Speaker 1: wasn't the best player in the league because he was
Speaker 1: the most athletic or the most explosive. Um. He he
Speaker 1: was the best player in the league and and still
Speaker 1: certainly is right there with k d because of of
Speaker 1: how he sees it, thinks it and and and how
Speaker 1: skilled he is. And so he's a player who can age. Um,
Speaker 1: who's gonna age really well and still be all NBA
Speaker 1: because of that. But same with Russ and Russ is
Speaker 1: you know, Russ isn't the as explode us as he
Speaker 1: was in his twenties and thirties. But I think what's
Speaker 1: underestimated about Russell Westbrook is he is a great teammate
Speaker 1: and he has got your back. He is a player
Speaker 1: who cares deeply about winning. Now, do you love every
Speaker 1: shot he takes? No, you don't. And Russ will also
Speaker 1: admit it to and he'll do it privately with his
Speaker 1: guys when when he's like but I think I think
Speaker 1: it will work because Russell will be intent on it working.
Speaker 1: Now again, part of surrounding Lebron traditionally as you surround
Speaker 1: him with shooters, right, because he draws so much attention defensively,
Speaker 1: that's not where Russ is, right, Russ is not a
Speaker 1: catch and shoot uh guard. He's still attacked the rim
Speaker 1: and and so it'll be a challenge. Um, But I
Speaker 1: do think that you know, and he saw Russ really
Speaker 1: come on last year. He was injured early in Washington.
Speaker 1: He played through a lot of pain and just went
Speaker 1: on played and you saw him as he got healthier,
Speaker 1: and then you saw that Wizard's team come from really
Speaker 1: far back to get into the postseason, which was remarkable.
Speaker 1: And and how he acquiesced to Brad Beal and made Brad,
Speaker 1: you know, continue to make Brad the featured guy there.
Speaker 1: I think Russe will do that in l A too.
Speaker 1: It's funny when you listen to the barbershop talk around
Speaker 1: here locally in l A. It's a lot of arguments
Speaker 1: going on, man, because no one can just no one
Speaker 1: seems to be able to envinge in the world where Lebron,
Speaker 1: like Russ has the balls the late game situation, Russ
Speaker 1: has it on the ice, so his brock balls in
Speaker 1: his hands, Lebron spotting up because if you got it
Speaker 1: the other way around, and you got Lebron with the ball,
Speaker 1: do you want Russell Westbrook's spotting up? Now? Granted, they
Speaker 1: got some good pieces they signed Kendrick Nunn, Malik Monk.
Speaker 1: I love those two. Those are two electric electric scores
Speaker 1: that are gonna come in and give you buckets. But again,
Speaker 1: the whole thing is gonna come down to the spacing
Speaker 1: and how comfortable guys are with each other in those
Speaker 1: late games situations. We didn't even talk about Carmelo and
Speaker 1: what his role is gonna be this year, But I
Speaker 1: want to get your thoughts on Mellow and just what
Speaker 1: do you think his role with the Lakers. I mean,
Speaker 1: we obviously we envisioned a you know, the six man
Speaker 1: type of situation the rebirth in Portland, So I wanted
Speaker 1: to get your take on Mellow this year with the Lakers. Yeah,
Speaker 1: catch and shoot and and that's gonna be his job.
Speaker 1: He'll have a lot of open shots with that group.
Speaker 1: You know, he showed in Portland he can still make
Speaker 1: him and you saw in Portland. You know, I think
Speaker 1: it was important for Mellow to finally accept the fact
Speaker 1: that he was a role player and that he was
Speaker 1: not going to be a featured player anymore. He did
Speaker 1: that in Portland, and I think he came in there humbled,
Speaker 1: grateful for that opportunity, and he really helped that team.
Speaker 1: He helped them on the court. Certainly he helped him
Speaker 1: off the court. Remember talking to Neil as their president
Speaker 1: about you know, all the leadership that Dame had has
Speaker 1: to do day in and day out, and certainly c
Speaker 1: J that you know, they were Mellow took some pressure
Speaker 1: off of them some days because they were still leaders,
Speaker 1: they still their team. But Mellow commands such respect of
Speaker 1: his peers, of young players. I mean, so many young
Speaker 1: players who come into the league end up in the
Speaker 1: locker room. They all they grew up idolizing Mellow and
Speaker 1: that he was able to help in that regard in
Speaker 1: Portland and and it was just was terrific in that way.
Speaker 1: And I think he can do that in l A.
Speaker 1: But he's gonna need to catch and shoe, he's gonna
Speaker 1: need to make shots, and he's shown he can still
Speaker 1: do that. Will be interesting to see how many minutes
Speaker 1: a night that is for him. But this is his
Speaker 1: chance to win a championship, and he has been, um,
Speaker 1: you know, it's been in an elusive and elusive pursuit
Speaker 1: for him, and he has said it, this is it,
Speaker 1: this is my chance. And you know, he and Lebron
Speaker 1: have been talking about playing each other since I think
Speaker 1: the ABC D camp and finding a way to play
Speaker 1: with each other. And I think, you know, I remember
Speaker 1: I've talked to Mellow. I think he was on the
Speaker 1: podcast last year. I think we talked a little bit about,
Speaker 1: you know, he didn't line himself up to go to
Speaker 1: to be a free agent with the Big Three and
Speaker 1: go to Miami. He could have maybe done that, and so, uh,
Speaker 1: this is his chance now, and so it'll be a
Speaker 1: lot of fun to see him there, see him back, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, in in a in a glamor market in
Speaker 1: the NBA. And listen, he's still a player who he
Speaker 1: just has such a following. He's still suck, such a
Speaker 1: popular player, and it's it's gonna be a lot of
Speaker 1: fun to see him and Lebron together. He can still
Speaker 1: get it going. And you know out here in l A,
Speaker 1: everybody's expecting the championship. So it's gonna be exciting. Um.
Speaker 1: A couple more questions on the Western Conference. Two more teams.
Speaker 1: I wanted to talk about the Warriors. I had Warriors
Speaker 1: jam Bob Myers on my podcast back in March when
Speaker 1: the Warriors were sort of finishing up their season. They
Speaker 1: were actually in a good spot. Steve Kerr had sort
Speaker 1: of right at the ship that got some wins. They're
Speaker 1: figuring things out with lesser talent. Bob is feeling great
Speaker 1: about the Warriors. They go into the summer, they draft
Speaker 1: too high lottery picks, um and Kaminga being one of
Speaker 1: them that really turned it out the summer during the
Speaker 1: summer league. I guess my, the biggest thing, and it
Speaker 1: is everybody's question, is is how is Clay gonna look
Speaker 1: when he comes back after nearly two years off major injuries? Right?
Speaker 1: I think that's the number one thing? And then what
Speaker 1: about these other guys that they signed during the off season?
Speaker 1: Is Otto Porter going to be a contributor? What about
Speaker 1: you know, Jordan Poole gonna be able to make another
Speaker 1: short of a leap? I mean, you know, Looney's there,
Speaker 1: and Steph is gonna be Steph. Dremond is gonna be Dre.
Speaker 1: But what do you think about the Warriors? To me,
Speaker 1: I feel like that if they get hot, Clay comes
Speaker 1: back uh as a decent version of it himself. I
Speaker 1: feel like they could surprise the people and potentially get
Speaker 1: to the Western Conference Finals. I'm going out on the limb.
Speaker 1: But what do you think about that? Won't? Yeah? No,
Speaker 1: you you said it, Chris. And the question for that
Speaker 1: team is gonna be what is Clay like? And two
Speaker 1: years away is a long time, and there's no more
Speaker 1: professional player than him, no more dedicated player, nobody who
Speaker 1: cares as deeply about his craft and who always puts
Speaker 1: the work in. And he's I'm I know he's done
Speaker 1: that in his rehab, but there's nothing that simulates playing
Speaker 1: NBA basketball except playing NBA basketball, and so I think
Speaker 1: people have to be realistic that let's you know, Ramona
Speaker 1: Shelburne ESPN reported that he you know, they have the
Speaker 1: optimism maybe he's back around Christmas, and so if you're
Speaker 1: saying around the first of the year, you know, you're
Speaker 1: hoping by the playoffs that he's you know, but maybe
Speaker 1: it takes a whole year to come back. Like I
Speaker 1: just think it may not be realistic to think it's
Speaker 1: just gonna be the old Clay right away. That doesn't
Speaker 1: mean he can't get back there, but we just don't know.
Speaker 1: And I think that's the wild card. It all depends
Speaker 1: upon him. James Weissman, you know, the number two pick.
Speaker 1: A couple of years ago, they played much better without
Speaker 1: him than they did with him. And they they when
Speaker 1: they kind of went back to the style that they
Speaker 1: were used to playing, Uh, they were more successful. Now
Speaker 1: that's not just on him. You know, you're gonna see growth.
Speaker 1: You know, obviously he had the injury which krittailed you know,
Speaker 1: some of his development and time on the court. But
Speaker 1: this isn't what you're not hearing from the Warriors this
Speaker 1: year is like they don't want to talk about development.
Speaker 1: They're not talking about like they're talking about winning, and
Speaker 1: they're not using their minutes and roles to grow young players.
Speaker 1: They're putting a team on the court that can help
Speaker 1: Steph Curry and his prime go as far as they
Speaker 1: can in the playoffs. And so you mentioned Kaminga and Moody,
Speaker 1: and I think those are two players who can be
Speaker 1: on the court as rookies and contribute and and in
Speaker 1: the long run have a chance probably to be very good.
Speaker 1: But they need, you know, their men. Their mindset in
Speaker 1: Golden State this year is putting a team on the
Speaker 1: court that gives us our best chance to win every night.
Speaker 1: How does James Weisman fit into that? What does he
Speaker 1: look like when he gets back, you know, and obviously
Speaker 1: Clay once he's back, and so, uh, that's a team
Speaker 1: again with the Hiberians, you mentioned conference finals realistic. I
Speaker 1: guess if Clay is great. Um, but we know the
Speaker 1: West is deep and and we saw what Steph did
Speaker 1: last year almost single handedly amazing. But but that that's
Speaker 1: that's there's no one player in the West that's gonna
Speaker 1: just carry you. Uh, he'll need more health obviously. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think Wiggins his performance last year, the jump he
Speaker 1: made in this consistency on both ends, I think that
Speaker 1: was a major plus for the Warriors too. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go out and say I just want him
Speaker 1: to get there because I've I've never been the biggest Stepan,
Speaker 1: but I love just last year what he did, how
Speaker 1: much heart he was showing. I mean, he literally was
Speaker 1: playing for that franchise, and I can I can feel
Speaker 1: it when I watched the highlights. You know, it was
Speaker 1: a lot of pride associated with that. And I'm a
Speaker 1: big Clay Thompson guy. So I really wish Clay is
Speaker 1: he gets back to being a hundred percent last one
Speaker 1: in the West. Do you think the Suns can make
Speaker 1: it back to the NBA Finals. I don't see it.
Speaker 1: I don't see it, Chris and and listen, what they
Speaker 1: did last year was remarkable and what Monty Williams and
Speaker 1: Chris Paul and James Jones that leadership to take a team.
Speaker 1: You don't see teams go from um the dregs of
Speaker 1: the league, that the bottom of the lottery and all
Speaker 1: of a sudden make a jump like that. Now, Chris
Speaker 1: Paul was an important edition. And you saw the development
Speaker 1: of DeAndre eight and the Michael Bridges and and and
Speaker 1: all those guys. There was some good fortune last year,
Speaker 1: and sometimes you need it, and that's okay, that's not
Speaker 1: a knock. You need to put yourself in position that
Speaker 1: if stuff happens to the team you're playing, that you're
Speaker 1: good enough to take advantage of it. And so they
Speaker 1: were good enough to take advantage of the Lakers injuries.
Speaker 1: Now they were too seat. That's hard to do in
Speaker 1: the West. And you know they is they move forward
Speaker 1: in the West and their injuries in front of them,
Speaker 1: and teams were beat up and then all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: Kauai is not there are in the conference final? Well
Speaker 1: they beat the team that was there. And so I
Speaker 1: don't know if that good fortune, uh, I don't know
Speaker 1: if that carries them to another conference finals and or
Speaker 1: another NBA Finals, but certainly they are formidable in the West.
Speaker 1: They're good enough to make a run. I don't feel
Speaker 1: as though they're a favorite, but they've shown that um
Speaker 1: that they can take advantage of an opportunity. And that's
Speaker 1: what a lot of postseason basketball is, matchups, taking advantage
Speaker 1: of an opportunity. That or you don't have to be
Speaker 1: the best team all the way. You've got to be
Speaker 1: the team. And sometimes it's healthiest that plays together and
Speaker 1: and and you get a break. Yeah, definitely need those breaks,
Speaker 1: I think. But if you think about I'm just not
Speaker 1: sure when Jamal Murray's coming back. I know Kauai is
Speaker 1: gonna be out for an extended period of time from
Speaker 1: last year. So I'm just wondering about, you know, the
Speaker 1: status of them guys and how that's gonna play out
Speaker 1: in the race and all of that. It's gonna be
Speaker 1: interesting to see because those are two major pieces in
Speaker 1: the Western Conference that's gonna that are missing from teams
Speaker 1: that are gonna open the door for others, you know what,
Speaker 1: and they change. Yeah, you're right, Jamal Murray, I think
Speaker 1: there's hope that he is back this season. I think
Speaker 1: there's some hope that Kauai can come back this season.
Speaker 1: But what do they look like when they do, where
Speaker 1: are you in the standings when it happens? Can you
Speaker 1: make up ground? Excuse me? Can you make up ground? Uh?
Speaker 1: A lot of uncertainty coming off injuries like that. Listen, Denver, Listen.
Speaker 1: We look back and if Jamal Murray doesn't go out,
Speaker 1: nobody was playing better than the Nuggets last year and
Speaker 1: they've just been the Aaron Gordon train and Gordon oh man,
Speaker 1: they killed the clip. I remember. Yeah, they were smashing,
Speaker 1: they were looking good and killing people and they had
Speaker 1: a real chance. They had a real chance. You look
Speaker 1: back and you go, that team could have easily have
Speaker 1: been in the NBA finals. But I mean, that's that's sports, Chris,
Speaker 1: that's I mean, that's injuries. Injuries, man, Injuries are everything
Speaker 1: in the league. Man, Well that was nice rundown of
Speaker 1: the NBA. I wanted to segue over into the new
Speaker 1: sort of development leagues that have popped up that are
Speaker 1: now grabbing um the kids. They're gonna be in the
Speaker 1: event eventually before they go to college. The Overtime Elite
Speaker 1: League and the g League Ignite where we saw two
Speaker 1: lottery picks get drafted from that team. Jalen Green, Jonathan
Speaker 1: cominga uh in this most recent draft, Woach, what do
Speaker 1: you think that this new route that elite level high
Speaker 1: school basketball players can take. Do you think it's gonna
Speaker 1: attract more guys and take away from the bulk of
Speaker 1: the talent from the n C Double A. I don't
Speaker 1: know if it's gonna take a bulk of it. It's
Speaker 1: taking a significant portion. And what I think is great, Chris.
Speaker 1: It's an option, and it may not be for everybody,
Speaker 1: but you know, there's gonna be kids who still want
Speaker 1: to go to college route and want to go to
Speaker 1: school somewhere, want to play major college basketball and all
Speaker 1: the things that do come with that. And there's kids
Speaker 1: who say, I want to go Ignite, I want to
Speaker 1: go over Time, And that's what it's all about, is
Speaker 1: having options, and it's not one size fits all, and
Speaker 1: I don't think it's ever gonna be everybody's at this
Speaker 1: one place. I mean, there's a limited you know, Ignite
Speaker 1: or Overtime. You know, there's limitations on how many guys
Speaker 1: they're gonna bring in and pay and all those things.
Speaker 1: But I think the NIT last year had even more
Speaker 1: value because of the pandemic. And I think the fact
Speaker 1: that Jalen Green, Jonathan Comingo could go in the bubble,
Speaker 1: be able to play you know whatever. It was five weeks,
Speaker 1: six weeks month in front of NBA executives within against
Speaker 1: NBA level talent or certainly professional talent with gms they're
Speaker 1: studying them. Um as opposed to a year where there
Speaker 1: were nothing was interrupted. They were able to play there
Speaker 1: in the bubble, there in the gym every day for offices,
Speaker 1: could come released, watch up close and see them again
Speaker 1: on an NBA court with an NBA three point line
Speaker 1: guarding bigger, stronger, older guys. I thought that was an
Speaker 1: advantage last year for those guys, and I thought they
Speaker 1: certainly benefited from it this year when gms are back
Speaker 1: in the college is more. Those guys weren't on the
Speaker 1: road as much, very little going to the A C
Speaker 1: C or the Big twelve or the Big Ten. They
Speaker 1: were limited in their travel and their access to these guys.
Speaker 1: So I thought it was even a greater benefit the
Speaker 1: ignite last year for two high level guys like that,
Speaker 1: and um, you know, Brian Shaw did a great job.
Speaker 1: I got Jason Hart over there. I think he'll do
Speaker 1: a really good job. I think the league puts a
Speaker 1: lot of thought into who coaches the players, the support
Speaker 1: system around them. So I think the Ignite is here
Speaker 1: to stay. You know, the overtime Elite is still new,
Speaker 1: um and so you know, we'll see how that plays
Speaker 1: out there. Certainly getting their share of of really good
Speaker 1: players in college basketball has to figure it out. And uh,
Speaker 1: but I think what is to me is really good.
Speaker 1: And I think what was important to the NBA was
Speaker 1: if I don't want to go to college basketball and
Speaker 1: I don't want to go be in the G League,
Speaker 1: I remember the Ignite is not really it's not the
Speaker 1: full G league experience, and the the NBA knew that
Speaker 1: if we just put these guys in the G League
Speaker 1: at eighteen years old and they're doing the whole G
Speaker 1: league gamut, which is you know, six am flight from
Speaker 1: Fort Wayne to which you know, to to Maine back
Speaker 1: down to play the Long Island, that's like, like, that's
Speaker 1: not for kids. The the Ignite thing is a little
Speaker 1: more um of a colt environment and agents. I don't
Speaker 1: think Christy agents weren't gonna let and and anybody like,
Speaker 1: because you could get eaten alive in that day to
Speaker 1: day G league at that age. Playing against men coming
Speaker 1: right out of high school. That may not enhance your
Speaker 1: draft status. Uh And so I think the way they've
Speaker 1: set up the Ignite is a good fit. It's not, again,
Speaker 1: just the full immersion into the G League life, which
Speaker 1: I think most kids right out of high school would
Speaker 1: really really struggle with physically and probably little mentally too. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think. But I think the most important part of
Speaker 1: of the G League Ignite experiences the mentor the mentors
Speaker 1: that the kids are around. Brian Shaw, Roder Strickland, some
Speaker 1: other guys. Now this was last year. Now this year
Speaker 1: you've got Jason Hart, who is you know, one of
Speaker 1: the very best college assistant coaches that uh in in
Speaker 1: the n C Double A and is eleven year pro
Speaker 1: and is all about showing this next generation how to
Speaker 1: do stuff. That's what these guys need to understand the
Speaker 1: most is practice, habits and you know, responsibility, accountability, being
Speaker 1: grown men in a professional basketball setting. I love these
Speaker 1: two leagues and the overtime Elite crew. It's filled with
Speaker 1: guys that have NBA front office experience and to be
Speaker 1: a coaching experience. Um, Brandon Williams, Kevin Ollie, some other
Speaker 1: guys are over there doing a hell of a job.
Speaker 1: So I'm really excited about both leagues and what the
Speaker 1: future holds. Whoach my man? Last question for you, UM
Speaker 1: we I do it? Asked this question to all of
Speaker 1: my guests. UM had a great conversation with Mark Spears.
Speaker 1: He's he broke down a great story. I wanted you
Speaker 1: to break down or give us a great Kobe story
Speaker 1: with Kobe being Bryant fans here, Man, we just want
Speaker 1: to get your some of your best or fondest memories
Speaker 1: of an interaction or interactions with Kobe Bryant. Yeah. I've
Speaker 1: never never covered anybody like him. I'm sure I never
Speaker 1: will again. He think about Kobe was his He had
Speaker 1: such an incredible curiosity and and and and a and
Speaker 1: a desire to understand not just his industry and his world,
Speaker 1: but he wanted to understand your world. And he wanted
Speaker 1: to under stand the world I competed in and understand
Speaker 1: what I would do to compete, what others would do
Speaker 1: to compete. And uh, he understood our profession sometimes I
Speaker 1: thought better than some of us understood our profession. And uh,
Speaker 1: I remember once obviously we know how competitive he was,
Speaker 1: and and and the one thing you know, it's the
Speaker 1: relationship with Michael Jordan is really interesting. And he saw
Speaker 1: it kind of come full circle at his memorial service
Speaker 1: and Michael how emotional Michael was, and Michael talking about
Speaker 1: sort of, you know, like a little bit early on
Speaker 1: he saw that Kobe is a little bit of a
Speaker 1: like an aritant. You leave me alone, kid, you know
Speaker 1: a little bit of that, and Kobe wanted to. But
Speaker 1: I do remember a time where they weren't particularly close,
Speaker 1: and I remember there was a point where Michael had
Speaker 1: I think Michael maybe had done some list or Michael
Speaker 1: had in an interview, had had given a list of
Speaker 1: either greatest all time player, is our greatest act of players.
Speaker 1: I can't remember. I'd have to go back and think
Speaker 1: what it was. Whatever the list was, he left Kobe
Speaker 1: off of it, whether it was the top three or whatever.
Speaker 1: And I knew Kobe was pissed about it, and he said,
Speaker 1: were you gonna be on the road. I want to
Speaker 1: get together. I want to talk. And I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: i'll be where you like. You tell me where to go,
Speaker 1: and he said, well, we looked at their schedule and
Speaker 1: come to Minnesota. So I got on a plane. I
Speaker 1: went to Minnesota. We go out to eat, and I
Speaker 1: remember this too. He would wear that jacket almost like
Speaker 1: it was like a varsity letterman Laker jacket. It was
Speaker 1: the year after they had won their back to back,
Speaker 1: so it was the what year with it that crispin
Speaker 1: they won the back to back three second one with pole, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: And at this point, like Lebron's in Miami and he's
Speaker 1: a he's about to start winning championships and and and
Speaker 1: Kobe's trying to hold on to He's trying to hold
Speaker 1: onto it. And I remember we met at the restaurant
Speaker 1: um at the hotel they're across from I think it
Speaker 1: was across from Target Center, and he had that jacket.
Speaker 1: It was like a varsity letterman jacket, was like a
Speaker 1: Lakers jacket. It had like the six basketballs, I think
Speaker 1: the six championship balls and else was wearing that jacket.
Speaker 1: Guys want to tease them, but it was Kobe and
Speaker 1: he could wear like it was like a varsity letterman
Speaker 1: Laker jacket with all the like you know when a
Speaker 1: guy in high school is like a all state and
Speaker 1: you get a patch for its all state or that's
Speaker 1: what it looked like. And um, it was actually it was.
Speaker 1: It was kind of pretty neat. And and so we
Speaker 1: sit down and we start talking, and I don't know
Speaker 1: if Michael came up. I do think Michael came up,
Speaker 1: because now Kobe had five titles, right, and he was
Speaker 1: chasing the sixth, and and that was it. And I
Speaker 1: think Kobe felt, I know he felt, if I can
Speaker 1: catch Michael and championships, that puts me in the conversation
Speaker 1: with you. You can't ever take me out of conversation
Speaker 1: for the greatest among the greatest players of all time.
Speaker 1: And and at that at that point, I think people
Speaker 1: are talking who's the best player in the league. Lebron
Speaker 1: is the best player in the league. Now maybe it's
Speaker 1: not Kobe anymore. And and but I think he thought
Speaker 1: I'd get that sixth title, Like Lebron's a long way
Speaker 1: from six and the other great players in the league
Speaker 1: are all a long way from that. So we started
Speaker 1: talking about Michael and he said to me, you know,
Speaker 1: Michael is not really the one that I emulated as
Speaker 1: much as it was Michael Jackson. And I got close,
Speaker 1: you know, I got to know Michael Jackson, and I'm going,
Speaker 1: I'm going, what are you talking about like I'd never
Speaker 1: heard him talk about Michael Jackson in that way, and
Speaker 1: he went on and on about getting to know Michael
Speaker 1: Jackson when he was a young player in l A
Speaker 1: and going up to to uh never uh never Land
Speaker 1: ran everything never was it never Land right, And he
Speaker 1: would watch Michael make music, and he would watch his
Speaker 1: painstaking process of of in the studio and how meticulous
Speaker 1: he was, and he learned about this attention to detail
Speaker 1: and how every and he went on and on. I'm
Speaker 1: sitting there with my tape recorder on going maybe I
Speaker 1: missed this, but I don't think I remember he got
Speaker 1: up and went to the bathroom, and I remember I
Speaker 1: I googled Michael Jackson and Kobe. I remember sitting in
Speaker 1: my seat going has he talked about this before? And
Speaker 1: I look and I'm like, I don't see it anywhere,
Speaker 1: and I'm going, all right. And so I ended up
Speaker 1: writing the piece and it got a lot of attention
Speaker 1: at the time because he had never And of course
Speaker 1: the only thing I remember finding was I think Kobe
Speaker 1: was at Michael Jackson's memorial service and maybe they did
Speaker 1: a quick TV stand up with him and he talked
Speaker 1: about him. But what the interview really was about, was
Speaker 1: it was a dig at Michael Michael Jordan's It was
Speaker 1: it was it was what the whole thing was really about,
Speaker 1: was like, you know what, Michael, You're not even really
Speaker 1: my guy. Now we know Michael Jordan was this guy,
Speaker 1: and like I knew it was bullshit, and he knew
Speaker 1: it was bullshit. And the Michael Jackson story was real
Speaker 1: and he had done and spent all this time with him,
Speaker 1: but it was the lengths Kobe would go sort of
Speaker 1: give a dig back to Jordan's without like just it
Speaker 1: was elaborate, and Michael Jackson stuff was all accurate, but
Speaker 1: it was just really didn't really I don't know if
Speaker 1: he really wanted to talk about the Michael Jackson stuff
Speaker 1: as much as it was the way to tell Michael Jordans, well, like,
Speaker 1: you know what, if you're not gonna put me on
Speaker 1: a list, maybe you're not really mine. It just was
Speaker 1: great and it was Kobe and and I just it
Speaker 1: just was a little window into how he thinks and
Speaker 1: how competitive he is was and there's just nobody nobody
Speaker 1: else like him. Man, absolutely genius. This guy was basically
Speaker 1: like to MJ to Michael, you're not the MJ that
Speaker 1: I looked up to. I looked up to this MJ.
Speaker 1: But exactly. That's a big time story. That's a big
Speaker 1: time story. Well, woach, thank you so much, maman for
Speaker 1: joining kJ Live today. We'll be watching you on ESPN.
Speaker 1: Do what you do think. I'm sorry I kept you
Speaker 1: so long, man, I know you can I know, Okay, good,
Speaker 1: all right, good man, Chris. We'll catch up soon, my friend. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we definitely will. Thank you so much for joining. This
Speaker 1: is kJ Live with Adrian watching Rowski