WEBVTT - The Highest Priority. Peter Boghosshian Talks To Armstrong & Getty 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.360 I'm going to take the counterpoint that the male penis 0:00:02.440 --> 0:00:05.800 is a construct and the penis is responsible for global warming. 0:00:06.040 --> 0:00:11.160 It's Armstrong and Getty extra large because four hours simply enough. 0:00:12.000 --> 0:00:16.920 This is Armstrong and Getty extra large. You know, I 0:00:16.920 --> 0:00:19.279 gotta say that was not the highbrow tone I was 0:00:19.320 --> 0:00:22.279 hoping to take in today's discussion. I'm disappointed in you 0:00:22.640 --> 0:00:25.239 that argument was good enough to get published and a 0:00:25.360 --> 0:00:30.800 university uh publication that that can't possibly be. You wouldn't 0:00:30.800 --> 0:00:32.839 think so. Perhaps you've heard us on The Armstrong and 0:00:32.840 --> 0:00:36.520 Getty Show discussing the experiences of Peter begin who taught 0:00:36.520 --> 0:00:39.440 philosophy at Portland State University in Portland, Oregon for a 0:00:39.479 --> 0:00:43.360 decade and has recently resigned for reasons that we will 0:00:43.440 --> 0:00:47.159 let him describe. It's always great to talk Peter. Welcome. 0:00:47.159 --> 0:00:51.519 How are you, sir? I have never been better, truly, 0:00:51.840 --> 0:00:56.320 I am a I am so happy right now. That's awesome. 0:00:56.440 --> 0:01:00.040 How are you, guys? We're terrific. We won't still of 0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:03.160 thunder though. Why do you feel that way? Well, because 0:01:03.440 --> 0:01:07.000 I don't have to compromise my integrity because I was 0:01:07.040 --> 0:01:09.080 working in a job in which I was hired to 0:01:09.120 --> 0:01:13.760 teach critical thinking and ethics, and then the conditions at 0:01:13.760 --> 0:01:18.600 the university made that impossible. Uh. And and I've just 0:01:18.640 --> 0:01:20.880 been really touched. I you know, I wrote a letter 0:01:20.920 --> 0:01:23.200 of resignation and I published it on very was the 0:01:23.280 --> 0:01:27.399 sub Stack, and I detailed what happens to people when 0:01:27.440 --> 0:01:31.600 they question or challenge the orthodoxy. And I have been 0:01:32.000 --> 0:01:37.440 flabbergasted by the literally worldwide reaction, the publication of the 0:01:37.520 --> 0:01:42.120 letter into multiple languages, the unbelievable amount of support that 0:01:42.360 --> 0:01:45.720 people contacted me just to say thank you or we 0:01:45.800 --> 0:01:49.080 appreciate what you did. I mean, it's just it's so touching. 0:01:49.160 --> 0:01:51.240 You know. I was tearing up last night just reading 0:01:51.280 --> 0:01:54.000 all these emails and support. I mean, it's truly amazing. 0:01:54.920 --> 0:01:58.080 I think there is an aspect of this, uh that 0:01:58.120 --> 0:02:00.720 we're gonna be talking about that is is kind of 0:02:01.360 --> 0:02:05.400 nice and warm feeling in that we and you and 0:02:05.520 --> 0:02:08.359 Matt Taiebe and and all sorts of thinkers who might 0:02:08.360 --> 0:02:12.320 disagree about everything have realized, oh my gosh, these sacred 0:02:12.320 --> 0:02:14.680 principles are are actually at stake. And we're not prone 0:02:14.680 --> 0:02:17.040 to hyperbole around here, which probably makes us bad talk 0:02:17.080 --> 0:02:21.079 show hosts, but we actually believe what's happening in our 0:02:21.120 --> 0:02:26.120 elementary high schools and university campuses is actually dangerous to civilization. 0:02:26.320 --> 0:02:28.560 And honestly, it feels good to be working with people 0:02:28.600 --> 0:02:31.160 we generally disagree with to do what we feel is right. 0:02:32.360 --> 0:02:35.000 It does and appreciate you having me on. And what's 0:02:35.040 --> 0:02:39.840 interesting is, you know the local paper here, I want 0:02:39.840 --> 0:02:42.400 to have a conversation. I want to have a sincere 0:02:42.480 --> 0:02:46.400 conversation about what's happening in our university system. I want 0:02:46.440 --> 0:02:49.800 to have a conversation about the president of Potland State 0:02:49.840 --> 0:02:54.600 University said that basically racial justice is his highest priority, 0:02:54.720 --> 0:02:58.000 highest priority of the institution. And you know, I want 0:02:58.000 --> 0:03:00.720 to have a conversation with the left about as you know, 0:03:00.760 --> 0:03:03.240 I'm a liberal atheist. I want to have a conversation 0:03:03.240 --> 0:03:06.960 with Matt matt Ow, with CNN, with MSNBC, with the 0:03:07.000 --> 0:03:11.480 local paper here, the oregon Ian, with op B, Oregon Public, Nobody, 0:03:11.919 --> 0:03:15.440 the whole left media media ecosystem is having none of it. 0:03:16.040 --> 0:03:19.079 They just don't want to have that conversation. And I 0:03:19.120 --> 0:03:23.560 find that that is fascinating. Do you think that's because 0:03:23.600 --> 0:03:26.799 they agree with the radical walk left, or because they're 0:03:26.800 --> 0:03:31.400 afraid of them, or they're afraid I think it's part 0:03:31.440 --> 0:03:34.160 of it is the same problem you see within the 0:03:34.280 --> 0:03:38.760 university is mirrored outside the university, and that is, don't 0:03:38.800 --> 0:03:41.240 talk to people with different views. There's even a word 0:03:41.280 --> 0:03:45.040 for that, it's called platform, and don't give the Nazia platform. 0:03:45.280 --> 0:03:48.360 Don't And it's not even that the problem is that 0:03:48.480 --> 0:03:52.480 somebody would give me a platform. The psychologist Stephen Pinker 0:03:52.680 --> 0:03:55.400 says that he calls it the left pole. In other words, 0:03:55.400 --> 0:03:58.560 when you're on the far left, anything even slightly to 0:03:58.640 --> 0:04:01.080 the right of that looks like you're all right or 0:04:01.120 --> 0:04:04.560 a Nazi. And so I think it's guilt by association. 0:04:05.040 --> 0:04:08.000 I think it's that they view themselves and I'm at 0:04:08.080 --> 0:04:10.480 least in partial agreement with this, that we really are 0:04:10.680 --> 0:04:15.920 in a cultural war and they don't want to. Well, actually, 0:04:15.960 --> 0:04:17.880 maybe I'll just put it on you. So, why do 0:04:17.960 --> 0:04:22.440 you think that the left wing, anybody's center of left 0:04:22.920 --> 0:04:25.560 is refuge? You guys will have me on. Glenn Beck 0:04:25.600 --> 0:04:27.520 had me on, Tucker Carlson had me on, and not 0:04:27.600 --> 0:04:29.560 only to talk about this, to talk about a wide 0:04:29.640 --> 0:04:32.400 range of issues, to challenge and question in probe, why 0:04:32.400 --> 0:04:34.960 don't we see that on the left. I blame the internet. 0:04:35.000 --> 0:04:39.200 I certainly blame social media. The social media tends to 0:04:39.279 --> 0:04:43.200 be left, particularly Twitter, and because it tends to be left, 0:04:43.320 --> 0:04:47.239 the the outspoken voices of the fringe left, the crazy 0:04:47.320 --> 0:04:50.840 people that we're talking about, they their importance is being 0:04:50.960 --> 0:04:54.839 elevated to a level that is not you know, doesn't 0:04:54.880 --> 0:04:58.800 make any sense. But the regular left is so scared 0:04:58.839 --> 0:05:01.599 of that vocal Twitter left that I think that's what 0:05:01.720 --> 0:05:07.160 drives all of this stuff. I'm gonna I'm gonna, well, 0:05:07.200 --> 0:05:10.719 all right, I'm gonna I'm gonna throw out something that 0:05:10.920 --> 0:05:14.240 may seem crazy, But here's my this is the next 0:05:14.320 --> 0:05:20.600 level of thinking about this. Our Lord vote a famous 0:05:21.560 --> 0:05:24.680 has a famous line of title, The Master's tools cannot 0:05:24.720 --> 0:05:27.720 disable the Master's house. The master's tools cannot dissemble, take 0:05:27.760 --> 0:05:33.400 apart the master's house. What is the master's house patriarchy, sexism, racism, oppression? 0:05:33.480 --> 0:05:38.840 What are the Master's tools? Reason, science, dialogue, discourse, etcetera. 0:05:39.680 --> 0:05:42.760 I believe part of the rot that's happening now that 0:05:42.800 --> 0:05:47.280 we're seeing is because there is a deep seated belief 0:05:47.360 --> 0:05:54.080 that the master's tools, that conversation, discourse, etcetera. Are enabling racism, xenophobia, 0:05:54.120 --> 0:05:57.320 the patriarchy, etcetera. So to have a conversation with someone 0:05:57.400 --> 0:06:01.320 like that is you don't want to give them a voice. 0:06:02.520 --> 0:06:04.200 The only thing that you will do, and there's a 0:06:04.240 --> 0:06:07.120 whole line of academic literature on this, the only thing 0:06:07.160 --> 0:06:10.719 that conversation will do is it will reinforce the patriarchy, 0:06:10.760 --> 0:06:13.679 it will reinforce bigotry, and it will demean the lived 0:06:13.720 --> 0:06:17.560 experiences of people who listen to that conversation and be hurtful. 0:06:18.080 --> 0:06:20.640 So I think that there is a moral infrastructure in 0:06:20.720 --> 0:06:24.320 place in which many on the left. And I don't 0:06:24.360 --> 0:06:28.279 think that this is in any way native to the left, 0:06:28.400 --> 0:06:30.480 Like you don't see this with known Chomsky or the 0:06:30.560 --> 0:06:34.480 kind of old school economic leftist. You see this exclusively 0:06:34.560 --> 0:06:39.160 with woke people. This is like, like my friend Dad 0:06:39.160 --> 0:06:44.120 said said, it's like a parasticization. It's a parasitic value 0:06:44.160 --> 0:06:48.120 system that's latched onto traditional leftism. So that's why I 0:06:48.160 --> 0:06:51.400 think that the the anybody left of center won't talk 0:06:51.400 --> 0:06:54.279 to me or anybody else. Well, there are a bunch 0:06:54.320 --> 0:06:56.320 of big ideas there. I wish I jutted them all down, 0:06:56.360 --> 0:06:59.280 but it's starting with the the expression about the master's house. 0:06:59.320 --> 0:07:03.080 I just reject at premise outright, and and at the 0:07:03.160 --> 0:07:09.680 heart of this, the idea that their ideas are irrefutable 0:07:09.920 --> 0:07:13.080 because they're sincerely held is one of the craziest things 0:07:13.120 --> 0:07:15.280 I've ever heard in my life. Can you imagine Peter 0:07:15.960 --> 0:07:19.000 walking into a symposium or whatever and saying, first of all, 0:07:19.040 --> 0:07:22.400 I'd like it to be made clear that my ideas 0:07:22.400 --> 0:07:26.080 are unimpeachable, every single one. And of course you get 0:07:26.080 --> 0:07:29.080 a big belly laugh from scholars. But then you say, no, no, 0:07:29.240 --> 0:07:32.600 I'm perfectly serious. You can't use logic, you can't use data, 0:07:32.640 --> 0:07:34.720 because those are the tools of the oppressor. I mean, 0:07:34.760 --> 0:07:38.920 that's it's it's so obviously a con it's hilarious to 0:07:39.000 --> 0:07:42.800 those of us with skeptical minds. Well, that's the other 0:07:42.880 --> 0:07:44.760 thing about this. I mean, that's the thing that I 0:07:44.920 --> 0:07:49.200 just marvel at. It's so insane, Like people are ripping 0:07:49.240 --> 0:07:52.520 down statues, people are assaulting the police, they're des drowing 0:07:52.600 --> 0:07:57.240 storefront windows of mom and pop businesses, you know, working 0:07:57.280 --> 0:08:02.120 class and for what do they do. It's so stupid, 0:08:02.160 --> 0:08:06.320 for Chad, for for a for an anarchist zone in 0:08:06.360 --> 0:08:09.920 which people are raping and murdering each I mean, for what, 0:08:09.920 --> 0:08:12.520 what is the what is the goal of this whole thing. 0:08:12.920 --> 0:08:16.160 It's so much easier to rip down and destroy than 0:08:16.200 --> 0:08:18.920 it is to create. And that's also I think part 0:08:18.920 --> 0:08:23.320 of the problem of why the left wing media ecosystem 0:08:23.360 --> 0:08:27.240 won't have people on, and it's because I not only 0:08:27.240 --> 0:08:30.560 do they not value conversation and they think that conversation 0:08:30.640 --> 0:08:33.880 is actually bad, but I think that's a convenient excuse 0:08:33.920 --> 0:08:36.840 to not do intellectual work to understand the other side 0:08:37.160 --> 0:08:39.840 of the argument. Now that's not to say that the 0:08:39.960 --> 0:08:41.800 right wing doesn't have a lot of crazies. I mean, 0:08:41.840 --> 0:08:44.480 of course it does, but it has a different kind 0:08:44.520 --> 0:08:47.839 of problem. And I would argue that the problem of 0:08:48.360 --> 0:08:53.520 free speech and free inquiry is absolutely rudimentary to human progress. 0:08:55.040 --> 0:08:57.600 I would say, you make a lot of good arguments, 0:08:57.600 --> 0:09:00.439 and Ian Joe are talking about some very intellectual stuff there. 0:09:00.440 --> 0:09:02.000 But I can tell you just from being in this 0:09:02.040 --> 0:09:04.760 business at a very base level, I don't think Rachel 0:09:04.760 --> 0:09:08.920 Mattow on MSNBC or Jake Tapper on CNN agree with 0:09:08.960 --> 0:09:13.440 any of this woke stuff. But if their bosses get 0:09:13.480 --> 0:09:17.559 a hundred emails or tweets from the woke left complaining 0:09:17.600 --> 0:09:20.360 about having you on, that's enough to frighten them off. 0:09:20.400 --> 0:09:25.719 And it's not for ideological reasons. It's just advertisers and ratings. Okay, 0:09:25.760 --> 0:09:29.040 So so then so if that's true, then they have 0:09:29.080 --> 0:09:36.240 no integrity, correct. Yeah, yeah, that's a good so. Right, 0:09:36.280 --> 0:09:40.120 So we're either we're either in a position that these 0:09:40.160 --> 0:09:43.680 folks believe it but won't say it. And if that's 0:09:43.720 --> 0:09:46.520 the case, why would you listen to them because what 0:09:46.559 --> 0:09:48.679 they're saying is not what they're believing. So there's a 0:09:48.760 --> 0:09:54.600 kind of inauthenticity built into the mechanism. Yeah, these go ahead. 0:09:55.120 --> 0:09:56.560 I was just gonna say, I think I think it's 0:09:56.640 --> 0:09:59.240 somewhat like Trump and some people on the right plane 0:09:59.280 --> 0:10:01.240 foot see with you and on or whatever. They think 0:10:01.280 --> 0:10:03.480 it's just a fringe group of crazies and better to 0:10:03.480 --> 0:10:05.440 have them on our side than not, and they're not 0:10:05.559 --> 0:10:07.439 enough to do any damage. Well, turns out they are. 0:10:07.679 --> 0:10:09.920 And I think that the Rachel Maddows and Jake Tapper's 0:10:09.920 --> 0:10:11.720 and that crowd is going to find that out about 0:10:11.720 --> 0:10:14.000 the woke crowd too. That kind of just playing footsie 0:10:14.040 --> 0:10:17.280 with him because it's easier and keep advertisers is going 0:10:17.360 --> 0:10:19.600 to turn out to be a bad idea. Well, in 0:10:19.640 --> 0:10:21.680 the same way that for instance, Ted Wheeler is the 0:10:21.679 --> 0:10:24.120 Mayor of Portland found out in a very painful way 0:10:24.160 --> 0:10:27.680 that no, you can't control that whirlwind or that pack 0:10:27.760 --> 0:10:30.559 of pit bulls, and just because they're you know, nominally 0:10:30.600 --> 0:10:34.480 on your side, they'll get out of control eventually. Yeah. 0:10:34.480 --> 0:10:38.480 That that's another conversation. Ted Rulers is a public disgrace 0:10:38.520 --> 0:10:41.079 and he should immediately be impeached and held accountable for 0:10:41.160 --> 0:10:42.920 what he's done to the City of Portland when he 0:10:43.000 --> 0:10:48.400 personally his negligence. The homicide rates are astronomical. He I mean, 0:10:48.400 --> 0:10:52.199 this is another conversation, but he we can. I'd love 0:10:52.240 --> 0:10:55.559 to have a conversation, but I want to stick it on. 0:10:55.720 --> 0:10:57.679 I want to I want to keep it to The 0:10:57.760 --> 0:11:00.480 university is just now. This is not a ininge bunch 0:11:00.520 --> 0:11:03.560 of nut jobs like Q and on. These are people 0:11:03.640 --> 0:11:08.720 who control major academic in most academic institutions in English 0:11:08.720 --> 0:11:12.200 speaking world, and they have positioned they're paid for in 0:11:12.280 --> 0:11:15.920 my case apportency. The university is paid for by taxpayer funds. 0:11:16.559 --> 0:11:18.480 Many of these people, if not most of them, have 0:11:18.600 --> 0:11:21.560 jobs for life. They're looking at the university as an 0:11:21.559 --> 0:11:27.080 indoctrination mill. They're teaching people and um training people to 0:11:27.200 --> 0:11:33.880 be activists based upon scholarship. That's totally, totally bogus. Again, 0:11:33.960 --> 0:11:36.560 the parallel to Q and on doesn't hold up. Yet. 0:11:36.600 --> 0:11:39.520 Does the right have crazies? Have, no question about. Everybody 0:11:39.520 --> 0:11:46.040 has crazies, but these crazies, the woke crazies, control academic institutions, 0:11:46.280 --> 0:11:50.760 our knowledge, our engines of knowledge production right and it's 0:11:50.800 --> 0:11:55.200 and the messages are grievance filled. The West is awful, 0:11:55.679 --> 0:11:58.760 Capitalism is awful. I'm not saying capitalism is perfect by 0:11:58.760 --> 0:12:02.400 any means, but I'm saying they have a very specific 0:12:02.880 --> 0:12:08.679 message that they're pumping out and nobody benefits from They 0:12:08.679 --> 0:12:10.920 don't even benefit from that. That's the other crazy thing 0:12:11.000 --> 0:12:15.400 about this. Nobody benefits from racial hatred, from division, from 0:12:15.720 --> 0:12:18.680 the universities, you know, racial justice being the highest part. 0:12:18.920 --> 0:12:23.080 Nobody is benefiting from these things. It is an ideology 0:12:23.120 --> 0:12:26.680 that is killing us all well. As a person who 0:12:26.720 --> 0:12:29.040 has worked with young people of all races for most 0:12:29.080 --> 0:12:31.400 of my adult life, I believe that to my core, 0:12:31.880 --> 0:12:34.040 that the very worst thing you could possibly do to 0:12:34.120 --> 0:12:36.040 a little child of colors to tell them they can't 0:12:36.080 --> 0:12:38.800 possibly achieve what they dream of because the white man 0:12:38.920 --> 0:12:41.040 is keeping them down. I think I think you are 0:12:41.120 --> 0:12:44.760 doing work so unholy and evil. The clan at its 0:12:44.800 --> 0:12:49.520 height couldn't dream of being that affected as effective. Hey, 0:12:49.520 --> 0:12:51.000 I want to go. I want to make one point 0:12:51.000 --> 0:12:53.280 because it's a prism through which I think the rest 0:12:53.280 --> 0:12:55.640 of the conversation could flow. One of the things you 0:12:55.679 --> 0:12:58.600 said in your letter of resignation, which I've read several times, 0:12:59.200 --> 0:13:02.360 is that. And this hit me like, I mean, like 0:13:02.400 --> 0:13:05.680 one of those fundamental principles you learn when you're a 0:13:05.720 --> 0:13:09.360 little kid, something Thomas Jefferson said. It just it fills 0:13:09.400 --> 0:13:12.160 your soul with excitement because you've realized the great truth. 0:13:12.360 --> 0:13:16.360 And what you said was the freedom to question is 0:13:16.360 --> 0:13:20.280 our fundamental right. And I thought that was one of 0:13:20.280 --> 0:13:23.320 the truest things I've ever heard. That's at the basis 0:13:23.320 --> 0:13:28.400 of everything right. The freedom to question is our fundamental 0:13:28.520 --> 0:13:31.480 right and the role. And I think the next line 0:13:31.480 --> 0:13:34.120 in that letter was talked about what our duty is. 0:13:34.160 --> 0:13:39.280 We we continue to forget that, and the university's goal 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:42.880 is to remind us that that's not only our right, 0:13:43.240 --> 0:13:47.000 but that's our duty. But Portland's state is practically forbidden 0:13:47.160 --> 0:13:52.160 questioning correct only about certain things, though only about things 0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:55.240 that contradict the more orthodox. You can question other things 0:13:55.280 --> 0:13:57.520 you know, like what's the best way to plant plant 0:13:57.600 --> 0:13:59.480 a tree? You know, how far down should it go? 0:13:59.720 --> 0:14:03.840 But only questioning certain things. So I guess I want 0:14:03.840 --> 0:14:07.600 to put out a call. I want to say two things. 0:14:07.720 --> 0:14:11.640 I think it's really important when you're talking about racial justice, Like, 0:14:11.679 --> 0:14:14.960 if you actually want racial justice, the first order of 0:14:15.000 --> 0:14:18.880 business is to give every American an education of public education, 0:14:18.920 --> 0:14:21.960 particularly AK through twelve, education of the first rate, independent 0:14:22.040 --> 0:14:25.600 of skin color or socio economic status. And we have, 0:14:26.360 --> 0:14:28.600 my opinion is that we have let down an awful 0:14:28.760 --> 0:14:31.960 awful lot of people. And the solution to that is 0:14:31.960 --> 0:14:35.640 not equity, in other words, trying to gerry read outcomes delution. 0:14:35.800 --> 0:14:38.560 The solution to that is the quality of opportunity. And 0:14:38.640 --> 0:14:41.640 so I think what I would like to see conservatives 0:14:41.680 --> 0:14:45.520 the space that they move in is well, many spaces, 0:14:45.560 --> 0:14:48.240 but in the context of this conversation, I'd like to 0:14:48.240 --> 0:14:52.560 see them move into honest and sincere attempts to fix 0:14:52.600 --> 0:14:55.600 school systems in the worst neighborhoods for the worst people, 0:14:55.680 --> 0:14:58.840 independent of their skin color. That's the first thing. The 0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:01.920 second thing that I would like to see is for 0:15:01.960 --> 0:15:04.680 all this talk about diversity, diversity is a code word 0:15:04.720 --> 0:15:10.240 for intellectual homogeneity. Right, if diversity really meant diversity, then 0:15:10.600 --> 0:15:13.280 for example, you wouldn't see the excuse me, the vile 0:15:13.320 --> 0:15:16.800 and bitriol spewed that Larry Elder particularly, and all the 0:15:16.840 --> 0:15:20.040 horrible names that he's been called because he's a black 0:15:20.040 --> 0:15:23.640 man who doesn't toe the party line. Right. So the 0:15:23.720 --> 0:15:25.200 other thing that I would like to see, and I 0:15:25.360 --> 0:15:27.080 just on Glenn Beck and I asked him this. So 0:15:27.160 --> 0:15:31.160 here's my question to you. Um. One of the things 0:15:31.200 --> 0:15:35.000 that we see in this in our university system is 0:15:35.080 --> 0:15:38.160 culling of voices. They came for the right, then they 0:15:38.200 --> 0:15:40.320 came for the concertors, and they came from the moderates, 0:15:40.600 --> 0:15:43.000 then they came for the liberals, and and now they're 0:15:43.000 --> 0:15:47.240 in their own little chamber of derangement. So my my 0:15:47.400 --> 0:15:51.200 question to you is do you think we should have 0:15:51.960 --> 0:15:59.040 a Mark A Marxists in an economics department at a university. Wow? 0:15:59.120 --> 0:16:02.120 That's an interesting and I absolutely believe Marxism ought to 0:16:02.120 --> 0:16:05.920 be studied and known and understood. I love the phrase 0:16:06.040 --> 0:16:08.520 chamber of derangement. By the way, So that's gonna be 0:16:08.520 --> 0:16:11.120 my new band. That's a good one. That's a good 0:16:11.120 --> 0:16:15.160 album title to um. Yeah, that's a really interesting question. 0:16:15.440 --> 0:16:21.480 I if there is the free of exchange of ideas, 0:16:21.520 --> 0:16:24.760 if there's the marketplace of ideas functioning, I don't mind 0:16:25.080 --> 0:16:28.320 some guy saying no, no, no, Marxism is correct, because 0:16:28.560 --> 0:16:33.400 any rational examination of the evidence will render that opinion. 0:16:33.600 --> 0:16:36.600 You know, silly, um. So I'm not particularly threatened by it. 0:16:36.640 --> 0:16:39.840 I don't love it, but that's fine. So so I 0:16:39.880 --> 0:16:42.560 do love it, and I'll tell you why. So I 0:16:42.640 --> 0:16:47.960 love the best proponents, people who actually believe what they teach. 0:16:48.040 --> 0:16:51.200 So I'm an atheist. I teach an atheist class, and 0:16:51.240 --> 0:16:55.840 I have Christians, many very very prominent Christians and apologists 0:16:55.840 --> 0:16:58.160 come in and teach the best arguments to the existence 0:16:58.200 --> 0:17:02.040 of God. And the reason is because I don't believe 0:17:02.120 --> 0:17:05.240 those things. And so I would be doing my my 0:17:05.320 --> 0:17:09.800 students and injustice if I taught them without having You know, 0:17:10.600 --> 0:17:13.880 um um, I was crazy to see this. Let let's 0:17:13.880 --> 0:17:17.320 say this way. Students need to learn from people who 0:17:17.359 --> 0:17:20.960 believe things in the most diverse ways possible. So I 0:17:21.000 --> 0:17:23.280 love the idea of their being a Marxist, even though 0:17:23.320 --> 0:17:26.879 I hate Marxism, because I think our students need to 0:17:26.880 --> 0:17:29.560 see our freedom night. They need to see people with 0:17:30.280 --> 0:17:32.760 psychology and behaviors. They need to see, they need to 0:17:32.760 --> 0:17:36.760 see people who have um a wide range of beliefs, 0:17:36.800 --> 0:17:39.199 and we need to give them the tools to figure 0:17:39.240 --> 0:17:42.840 out for themselves what the answer is. I just might 0:17:43.040 --> 0:17:46.879 be I was gonna say, I was gonna say, my 0:17:46.880 --> 0:17:49.800 my discomfort is with the hundreds of millions who have 0:17:49.960 --> 0:17:53.359 died at the hands of communism, And I mean, would 0:17:53.359 --> 0:17:58.439 you would you likewise be infused about somebody teaching actual fascism, 0:17:58.480 --> 0:18:01.679 not antifa's view of fascism, actual fascism and trying to 0:18:01.680 --> 0:18:05.800 convince the kids, look, this is a better system. Yeah. 0:18:05.840 --> 0:18:10.440 I think it's less about convincing and more about framing 0:18:10.440 --> 0:18:13.200 an argument in the most charitable way possible. So yeah, 0:18:13.240 --> 0:18:16.240 I have no problem with that, even though I disagree. 0:18:16.600 --> 0:18:19.000 And the reason for that is not only so that 0:18:19.040 --> 0:18:22.439 the kids can get the best representatives of the of 0:18:22.480 --> 0:18:25.879 the ideas, but they can make the decisions for themselves. 0:18:25.920 --> 0:18:29.119 Like that, the moment that you say, oh, we can't 0:18:29.119 --> 0:18:31.600 have this person here or we can't have this person 0:18:31.960 --> 0:18:36.159 speak out, you you were in very serious danger of 0:18:36.240 --> 0:18:39.080 becoming the things that we hate. That's a very good 0:18:39.440 --> 0:18:44.000 So we have to allow a system that has the 0:18:44.040 --> 0:18:47.040 free exchange of ideas. Now, somebody recently, I don't have 0:18:47.080 --> 0:18:48.440 it in front of me, but put out a tweet 0:18:48.480 --> 0:18:53.360 about nine eleven being the white, hetero capitalist patriarchy professor 0:18:53.400 --> 0:18:58.719 from Syracuse University. Yeah, and the university did exactly what 0:18:58.760 --> 0:19:01.120 he should do and what it should have done, and said, 0:19:01.160 --> 0:19:04.760 look this this academic So freedom of speech in an 0:19:04.760 --> 0:19:09.000 academic context is even more privileged, even a higher value. 0:19:09.040 --> 0:19:13.119 It's like we need people like that too, you know, whatever, 0:19:13.320 --> 0:19:15.360 rock the boat, say anything they want to speak. That's 0:19:15.400 --> 0:19:18.040 the whole idea of protection from tenure. And the university 0:19:18.119 --> 0:19:20.720 issued a wonderful statement that I wish my university would 0:19:20.760 --> 0:19:23.679 have issued for me, that we may or may not agree, 0:19:23.760 --> 0:19:26.680 but this person has the right to speak openly and honestly. 0:19:27.119 --> 0:19:30.240 And then the students. That was a statement. But I 0:19:30.280 --> 0:19:34.760 would like to see the kind of intellectual change um 0:19:35.200 --> 0:19:39.200 wrestling with ideas and the type of academy in which, look, 0:19:39.280 --> 0:19:41.600 you can disagree with people, you can agree with people, 0:19:41.880 --> 0:19:45.160 But here are the people who have they believe this, 0:19:45.640 --> 0:19:48.920 those are publishing it, they have researched it. We've given 0:19:48.960 --> 0:19:51.440 you the tools to make an analysis and the examination. 0:19:51.760 --> 0:19:56.760 Now go forward. You do that and our democracy will flourish. Right, 0:19:57.040 --> 0:19:59.960 you teach people not to attack other people on the 0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:03.360 basis of the mutable characteristics, but to engage their ideas, 0:20:03.920 --> 0:20:07.560 and we were all better off. Peter, Maybe we can compromise. 0:20:07.640 --> 0:20:10.000 Let's keep the Marxist chained in a cage and just 0:20:10.080 --> 0:20:15.119 bring them out for lectures. Would that be fair? No, 0:20:15.320 --> 0:20:19.400 we have to give everybody, you know, and that's why 0:20:19.400 --> 0:20:22.840 I said a Marxist not. But the problem comes when 0:20:22.880 --> 0:20:25.240 you stack a whole department with people who have the 0:20:25.280 --> 0:20:28.320 same beliefs, and then the kids will go into that 0:20:28.440 --> 0:20:31.399 and they're saying, well, everybody, my economics professor believe this. 0:20:31.480 --> 0:20:34.680 He's written all these books. This is true. No, that's 0:20:34.720 --> 0:20:37.760 why you need intellectual diversity. And the other thing is 0:20:38.000 --> 0:20:41.120 nobody will trust the bodies of literature and the quote 0:20:41.200 --> 0:20:44.920 unquote scholarship coming from you know, about really important things 0:20:44.920 --> 0:20:47.679 like global climate change, because they'll say, well, why should 0:20:47.680 --> 0:20:49.880 I try? People have actually said this to me, why 0:20:49.880 --> 0:20:53.679 should I trust that? Everybody here is a leftist? And 0:20:53.720 --> 0:20:56.560 they're right, right, right, But if if you had a 0:20:56.680 --> 0:21:01.719 mix of people, right, if you in a climate science 0:21:01.720 --> 0:21:05.160 you know, if you pee Christians and everybody different views 0:21:05.200 --> 0:21:08.240 and they came to a convergence of opinion, they came 0:21:08.240 --> 0:21:11.520 to a consensus. Now that would be something that people 0:21:11.560 --> 0:21:13.440 would then look at that and say, Okay, wow, these 0:21:13.480 --> 0:21:16.399 people like me, they represent my voice, they agree with 0:21:16.480 --> 0:21:25.280 other people like you and I are agreeing about this stuff. Yeah. 0:21:25.320 --> 0:21:28.800 I mean, this is the fundamental principle upon which our 0:21:28.880 --> 0:21:32.320 democracy has to be based. We have to have open inquiry, 0:21:32.400 --> 0:21:34.840 we have to have free speech, and we also have 0:21:34.920 --> 0:21:38.000 to teach people. You know what, if somebody doesn't agree 0:21:38.000 --> 0:21:41.479 with you, that's okay. You can still hang out with them. 0:21:41.520 --> 0:21:43.320 They can still be your friend, you can still go 0:21:43.400 --> 0:21:46.359 drinking with them, you can still marry them. It's okay. 0:21:46.400 --> 0:21:48.520 In fact, it's probably good if they don't agree with 0:21:48.560 --> 0:21:51.760 you about everything, because then you can have some fun 0:21:51.800 --> 0:21:55.320 and good conversations. But we're strayed from that because we're 0:21:55.320 --> 0:21:58.119 not allowing people to have different that's my book, how 0:21:58.160 --> 0:22:01.240 to have impossible conversations. We're straight aid from that because 0:22:01.440 --> 0:22:04.880 those conversations don't take place in the university. And it's 0:22:04.920 --> 0:22:07.200 not only that they don't take place. It said. If 0:22:07.240 --> 0:22:12.480 somebody has a view that doesn't conform to what's morally fashionable, 0:22:12.640 --> 0:22:15.160 it's not just like they're wrong, but it's like they're 0:22:15.200 --> 0:22:18.880 a bad person. And that's the narrative. People are pointing out. 0:22:19.320 --> 0:22:21.720 If you don't agree with this, you're a racist, you're 0:22:21.720 --> 0:22:24.560 a bigot, you're a homeleful. Well how about this? How 0:22:24.560 --> 0:22:27.199 about maybe I don't agree because I don't see the 0:22:27.200 --> 0:22:31.919 evidence for how about how about that? Well? Yeah, amen 0:22:31.920 --> 0:22:33.960 to that, And that's the speaking of the fraud we 0:22:33.960 --> 0:22:36.880 were talking about before. The idea that I'm a racist 0:22:36.880 --> 0:22:40.359 for disagreeing with you is literally, you know, begging the 0:22:40.440 --> 0:22:42.520 question in the classical sense. I mean, well, what am 0:22:42.560 --> 0:22:44.320 I supposed to do? Just stand here and get punched? 0:22:44.359 --> 0:22:48.040 I guess ideologically, but I know Jackie had something just 0:22:48.119 --> 0:22:50.679 to make things easier. What what's the name you like 0:22:50.800 --> 0:22:53.600 to put on this, this whole thing is woke ism? 0:22:53.640 --> 0:22:56.400 What you like best? Or or you know? It's nice 0:22:56.440 --> 0:22:58.440 that when we throw on the term Marxist we all 0:22:58.440 --> 0:23:00.800 know what we mean. I think it it helped combat 0:23:00.840 --> 0:23:05.320 this if we have an agreed upon term that everybody's using. Yeah, 0:23:05.320 --> 0:23:07.320 I don't. I don't think you could have an agreed 0:23:07.400 --> 0:23:12.080 upon term. The people who participate in woke ideology don't 0:23:12.080 --> 0:23:15.440 like woke Helen pluck Rose, author of Cynical Theories, which 0:23:15.480 --> 0:23:18.440 is the v book on the subject, called the Critical 0:23:18.480 --> 0:23:22.000