1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,360 Speaker 1: I'm going to take the counterpoint that the male penis 2 00:00:02,440 --> 00:00:05,800 Speaker 1: is a construct and the penis is responsible for global warming. 3 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:11,160 Speaker 1: It's Armstrong and Getty extra large because four hours simply enough. 4 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:16,920 Speaker 1: This is Armstrong and Getty extra large. You know, I 5 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:19,279 Speaker 1: gotta say that was not the highbrow tone I was 6 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:22,279 Speaker 1: hoping to take in today's discussion. I'm disappointed in you 7 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:25,239 Speaker 1: that argument was good enough to get published and a 8 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 1: university uh publication that that can't possibly be. You wouldn't 9 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:32,839 Speaker 1: think so. Perhaps you've heard us on The Armstrong and 10 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:36,520 Speaker 1: Getty Show discussing the experiences of Peter begin who taught 11 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:39,440 Speaker 1: philosophy at Portland State University in Portland, Oregon for a 12 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:43,360 Speaker 1: decade and has recently resigned for reasons that we will 13 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:47,159 Speaker 1: let him describe. It's always great to talk Peter. Welcome. 14 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:51,519 Speaker 1: How are you, sir? I have never been better, truly, 15 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:56,320 Speaker 1: I am a I am so happy right now. That's awesome. 16 00:00:56,440 --> 00:01:00,040 Speaker 1: How are you, guys? We're terrific. We won't still of 17 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:03,160 Speaker 1: thunder though. Why do you feel that way? Well, because 18 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:07,000 Speaker 1: I don't have to compromise my integrity because I was 19 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:09,080 Speaker 1: working in a job in which I was hired to 20 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:13,760 Speaker 1: teach critical thinking and ethics, and then the conditions at 21 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 1: the university made that impossible. Uh. And and I've just 22 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 1: been really touched. I you know, I wrote a letter 23 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:23,200 Speaker 1: of resignation and I published it on very was the 24 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:27,399 Speaker 1: sub Stack, and I detailed what happens to people when 25 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:31,600 Speaker 1: they question or challenge the orthodoxy. And I have been 26 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 1: flabbergasted by the literally worldwide reaction, the publication of the 27 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:42,120 Speaker 1: letter into multiple languages, the unbelievable amount of support that 28 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:45,720 Speaker 1: people contacted me just to say thank you or we 29 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 1: appreciate what you did. I mean, it's just it's so touching. 30 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 1: You know. I was tearing up last night just reading 31 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 1: all these emails and support. I mean, it's truly amazing. 32 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 1: I think there is an aspect of this, uh that 33 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 1: we're gonna be talking about that is is kind of 34 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 1: nice and warm feeling in that we and you and 35 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:08,359 Speaker 1: Matt Taiebe and and all sorts of thinkers who might 36 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 1: disagree about everything have realized, oh my gosh, these sacred 37 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:14,680 Speaker 1: principles are are actually at stake. And we're not prone 38 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:17,040 Speaker 1: to hyperbole around here, which probably makes us bad talk 39 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:21,079 Speaker 1: show hosts, but we actually believe what's happening in our 40 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 1: elementary high schools and university campuses is actually dangerous to civilization. 41 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:28,560 Speaker 1: And honestly, it feels good to be working with people 42 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 1: we generally disagree with to do what we feel is right. 43 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:35,000 Speaker 1: It does and appreciate you having me on. And what's 44 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:39,840 Speaker 1: interesting is, you know the local paper here, I want 45 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:42,400 Speaker 1: to have a conversation. I want to have a sincere 46 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:46,400 Speaker 1: conversation about what's happening in our university system. I want 47 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:49,800 Speaker 1: to have a conversation about the president of Potland State 48 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 1: University said that basically racial justice is his highest priority, 49 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 1: highest priority of the institution. And you know, I want 50 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 1: to have a conversation with the left about as you know, 51 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:03,240 Speaker 1: I'm a liberal atheist. I want to have a conversation 52 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:06,960 Speaker 1: with Matt matt Ow, with CNN, with MSNBC, with the 53 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 1: local paper here, the oregon Ian, with op B, Oregon Public, Nobody, 54 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 1: the whole left media media ecosystem is having none of it. 55 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:19,079 Speaker 1: They just don't want to have that conversation. And I 56 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 1: find that that is fascinating. Do you think that's because 57 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:26,799 Speaker 1: they agree with the radical walk left, or because they're 58 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:31,400 Speaker 1: afraid of them, or they're afraid I think it's part 59 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:34,160 Speaker 1: of it is the same problem you see within the 60 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 1: university is mirrored outside the university, and that is, don't 61 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 1: talk to people with different views. There's even a word 62 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 1: for that, it's called platform, and don't give the Nazia platform. 63 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 1: Don't And it's not even that the problem is that 64 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 1: somebody would give me a platform. The psychologist Stephen Pinker 65 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 1: says that he calls it the left pole. In other words, 66 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 1: when you're on the far left, anything even slightly to 67 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:01,080 Speaker 1: the right of that looks like you're all right or 68 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:04,560 Speaker 1: a Nazi. And so I think it's guilt by association. 69 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 1: I think it's that they view themselves and I'm at 70 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 1: least in partial agreement with this, that we really are 71 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 1: in a cultural war and they don't want to. Well, actually, 72 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 1: maybe I'll just put it on you. So, why do 73 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 1: you think that the left wing, anybody's center of left 74 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:25,560 Speaker 1: is refuge? You guys will have me on. Glenn Beck 75 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 1: had me on, Tucker Carlson had me on, and not 76 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:29,560 Speaker 1: only to talk about this, to talk about a wide 77 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 1: range of issues, to challenge and question in probe, why 78 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:34,960 Speaker 1: don't we see that on the left. I blame the internet. 79 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 1: I certainly blame social media. The social media tends to 80 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 1: be left, particularly Twitter, and because it tends to be left, 81 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:47,239 Speaker 1: the the outspoken voices of the fringe left, the crazy 82 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:50,840 Speaker 1: people that we're talking about, they their importance is being 83 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:54,839 Speaker 1: elevated to a level that is not you know, doesn't 84 00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:58,800 Speaker 1: make any sense. But the regular left is so scared 85 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:01,599 Speaker 1: of that vocal Twitter left that I think that's what 86 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:07,160 Speaker 1: drives all of this stuff. I'm gonna I'm gonna, well, 87 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:10,719 Speaker 1: all right, I'm gonna I'm gonna throw out something that 88 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:14,240 Speaker 1: may seem crazy, But here's my this is the next 89 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:20,600 Speaker 1: level of thinking about this. Our Lord vote a famous 90 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 1: has a famous line of title, The Master's tools cannot 91 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:27,720 Speaker 1: disable the Master's house. The master's tools cannot dissemble, take 92 00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 1: apart the master's house. What is the master's house patriarchy, sexism, racism, oppression? 93 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:38,840 Speaker 1: What are the Master's tools? Reason, science, dialogue, discourse, etcetera. 94 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 1: I believe part of the rot that's happening now that 95 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:47,280 Speaker 1: we're seeing is because there is a deep seated belief 96 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 1: that the master's tools, that conversation, discourse, etcetera. Are enabling racism, xenophobia, 97 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:57,320 Speaker 1: the patriarchy, etcetera. So to have a conversation with someone 98 00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 1: like that is you don't want to give them a voice. 99 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 1: The only thing that you will do, and there's a 100 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:07,120 Speaker 1: whole line of academic literature on this, the only thing 101 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:10,719 Speaker 1: that conversation will do is it will reinforce the patriarchy, 102 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:13,679 Speaker 1: it will reinforce bigotry, and it will demean the lived 103 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:17,560 Speaker 1: experiences of people who listen to that conversation and be hurtful. 104 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 1: So I think that there is a moral infrastructure in 105 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 1: place in which many on the left. And I don't 106 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:28,279 Speaker 1: think that this is in any way native to the left, 107 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:30,480 Speaker 1: Like you don't see this with known Chomsky or the 108 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:34,480 Speaker 1: kind of old school economic leftist. You see this exclusively 109 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:39,160 Speaker 1: with woke people. This is like, like my friend Dad 110 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:44,120 Speaker 1: said said, it's like a parasticization. It's a parasitic value 111 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:48,120 Speaker 1: system that's latched onto traditional leftism. So that's why I 112 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 1: think that the the anybody left of center won't talk 113 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:54,279 Speaker 1: to me or anybody else. Well, there are a bunch 114 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:56,320 Speaker 1: of big ideas there. I wish I jutted them all down, 115 00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:59,280 Speaker 1: but it's starting with the the expression about the master's house. 116 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 1: I just reject at premise outright, and and at the 117 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:09,680 Speaker 1: heart of this, the idea that their ideas are irrefutable 118 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 1: because they're sincerely held is one of the craziest things 119 00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:15,280 Speaker 1: I've ever heard in my life. Can you imagine Peter 120 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 1: walking into a symposium or whatever and saying, first of all, 121 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 1: I'd like it to be made clear that my ideas 122 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 1: are unimpeachable, every single one. And of course you get 123 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 1: a big belly laugh from scholars. But then you say, no, no, 124 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:32,600 Speaker 1: I'm perfectly serious. You can't use logic, you can't use data, 125 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:34,720 Speaker 1: because those are the tools of the oppressor. I mean, 126 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 1: that's it's it's so obviously a con it's hilarious to 127 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:42,800 Speaker 1: those of us with skeptical minds. Well, that's the other 128 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 1: thing about this. I mean, that's the thing that I 129 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 1: just marvel at. It's so insane, Like people are ripping 130 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 1: down statues, people are assaulting the police, they're des drowing 131 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:57,240 Speaker 1: storefront windows of mom and pop businesses, you know, working 132 00:07:57,280 --> 00:08:02,120 Speaker 1: class and for what do they do. It's so stupid, 133 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:06,320 Speaker 1: for Chad, for for a for an anarchist zone in 134 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:09,920 Speaker 1: which people are raping and murdering each I mean, for what, 135 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:12,520 Speaker 1: what is the what is the goal of this whole thing. 136 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 1: It's so much easier to rip down and destroy than 137 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:18,920 Speaker 1: it is to create. And that's also I think part 138 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 1: of the problem of why the left wing media ecosystem 139 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 1: won't have people on, and it's because I not only 140 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 1: do they not value conversation and they think that conversation 141 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:33,880 Speaker 1: is actually bad, but I think that's a convenient excuse 142 00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:36,840 Speaker 1: to not do intellectual work to understand the other side 143 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:39,840 Speaker 1: of the argument. Now that's not to say that the 144 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 1: right wing doesn't have a lot of crazies. I mean, 145 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:44,480 Speaker 1: of course it does, but it has a different kind 146 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:47,839 Speaker 1: of problem. And I would argue that the problem of 147 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:53,520 Speaker 1: free speech and free inquiry is absolutely rudimentary to human progress. 148 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:57,600 Speaker 1: I would say, you make a lot of good arguments, 149 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:00,439 Speaker 1: and Ian Joe are talking about some very intellectual stuff there. 150 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:02,000 Speaker 1: But I can tell you just from being in this 151 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 1: business at a very base level, I don't think Rachel 152 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:08,920 Speaker 1: Mattow on MSNBC or Jake Tapper on CNN agree with 153 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:13,440 Speaker 1: any of this woke stuff. But if their bosses get 154 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:17,559 Speaker 1: a hundred emails or tweets from the woke left complaining 155 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 1: about having you on, that's enough to frighten them off. 156 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:25,719 Speaker 1: And it's not for ideological reasons. It's just advertisers and ratings. Okay, 157 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:29,040 Speaker 1: So so then so if that's true, then they have 158 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:36,240 Speaker 1: no integrity, correct. Yeah, yeah, that's a good so. Right, 159 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:40,120 Speaker 1: So we're either we're either in a position that these 160 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:43,680 Speaker 1: folks believe it but won't say it. And if that's 161 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:46,520 Speaker 1: the case, why would you listen to them because what 162 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:48,679 Speaker 1: they're saying is not what they're believing. So there's a 163 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 1: kind of inauthenticity built into the mechanism. Yeah, these go ahead. 164 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:56,560 Speaker 1: I was just gonna say, I think I think it's 165 00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 1: somewhat like Trump and some people on the right plane 166 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:01,240 Speaker 1: foot see with you and on or whatever. They think 167 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:03,480 Speaker 1: it's just a fringe group of crazies and better to 168 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:05,440 Speaker 1: have them on our side than not, and they're not 169 00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:07,439 Speaker 1: enough to do any damage. Well, turns out they are. 170 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:09,920 Speaker 1: And I think that the Rachel Maddows and Jake Tapper's 171 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:11,720 Speaker 1: and that crowd is going to find that out about 172 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:14,000 Speaker 1: the woke crowd too. That kind of just playing footsie 173 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:17,280 Speaker 1: with him because it's easier and keep advertisers is going 174 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:19,600 Speaker 1: to turn out to be a bad idea. Well, in 175 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:21,680 Speaker 1: the same way that for instance, Ted Wheeler is the 176 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 1: Mayor of Portland found out in a very painful way 177 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:27,680 Speaker 1: that no, you can't control that whirlwind or that pack 178 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:30,559 Speaker 1: of pit bulls, and just because they're you know, nominally 179 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:34,480 Speaker 1: on your side, they'll get out of control eventually. Yeah. 180 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:38,480 Speaker 1: That that's another conversation. Ted Rulers is a public disgrace 181 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:41,079 Speaker 1: and he should immediately be impeached and held accountable for 182 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:42,920 Speaker 1: what he's done to the City of Portland when he 183 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:48,400 Speaker 1: personally his negligence. The homicide rates are astronomical. He I mean, 184 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:52,199 Speaker 1: this is another conversation, but he we can. I'd love 185 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:55,559 Speaker 1: to have a conversation, but I want to stick it on. 186 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:57,679 Speaker 1: I want to I want to keep it to The 187 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:00,480 Speaker 1: university is just now. This is not a ininge bunch 188 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:03,560 Speaker 1: of nut jobs like Q and on. These are people 189 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:08,720 Speaker 1: who control major academic in most academic institutions in English 190 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:12,200 Speaker 1: speaking world, and they have positioned they're paid for in 191 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:15,920 Speaker 1: my case apportency. The university is paid for by taxpayer funds. 192 00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 1: Many of these people, if not most of them, have 193 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:21,560 Speaker 1: jobs for life. They're looking at the university as an 194 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:27,080 Speaker 1: indoctrination mill. They're teaching people and um training people to 195 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:33,880 Speaker 1: be activists based upon scholarship. That's totally, totally bogus. Again, 196 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:36,560 Speaker 1: the parallel to Q and on doesn't hold up. Yet. 197 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:39,520 Speaker 1: Does the right have crazies? Have, no question about. Everybody 198 00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:46,040 Speaker 1: has crazies, but these crazies, the woke crazies, control academic institutions, 199 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 1: our knowledge, our engines of knowledge production right and it's 200 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:55,200 Speaker 1: and the messages are grievance filled. The West is awful, 201 00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:58,760 Speaker 1: Capitalism is awful. I'm not saying capitalism is perfect by 202 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:02,400 Speaker 1: any means, but I'm saying they have a very specific 203 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:08,679 Speaker 1: message that they're pumping out and nobody benefits from They 204 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:10,920 Speaker 1: don't even benefit from that. That's the other crazy thing 205 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:15,400 Speaker 1: about this. Nobody benefits from racial hatred, from division, from 206 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:18,680 Speaker 1: the universities, you know, racial justice being the highest part. 207 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:23,080 Speaker 1: Nobody is benefiting from these things. It is an ideology 208 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:26,680 Speaker 1: that is killing us all well. As a person who 209 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 1: has worked with young people of all races for most 210 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:31,400 Speaker 1: of my adult life, I believe that to my core, 211 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:34,040 Speaker 1: that the very worst thing you could possibly do to 212 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:36,040 Speaker 1: a little child of colors to tell them they can't 213 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 1: possibly achieve what they dream of because the white man 214 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 1: is keeping them down. I think I think you are 215 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:44,760 Speaker 1: doing work so unholy and evil. The clan at its 216 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:49,520 Speaker 1: height couldn't dream of being that affected as effective. Hey, 217 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:51,000 Speaker 1: I want to go. I want to make one point 218 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:53,280 Speaker 1: because it's a prism through which I think the rest 219 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 1: of the conversation could flow. One of the things you 220 00:12:55,679 --> 00:12:58,600 Speaker 1: said in your letter of resignation, which I've read several times, 221 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:02,360 Speaker 1: is that. And this hit me like, I mean, like 222 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:05,680 Speaker 1: one of those fundamental principles you learn when you're a 223 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 1: little kid, something Thomas Jefferson said. It just it fills 224 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:12,160 Speaker 1: your soul with excitement because you've realized the great truth. 225 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 1: And what you said was the freedom to question is 226 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 1: our fundamental right. And I thought that was one of 227 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:23,320 Speaker 1: the truest things I've ever heard. That's at the basis 228 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:28,400 Speaker 1: of everything right. The freedom to question is our fundamental 229 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:31,480 Speaker 1: right and the role. And I think the next line 230 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:34,120 Speaker 1: in that letter was talked about what our duty is. 231 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:39,280 Speaker 1: We we continue to forget that, and the university's goal 232 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 1: is to remind us that that's not only our right, 233 00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 1: but that's our duty. But Portland's state is practically forbidden 234 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:52,160 Speaker 1: questioning correct only about certain things, though only about things 235 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:55,240 Speaker 1: that contradict the more orthodox. You can question other things 236 00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:57,520 Speaker 1: you know, like what's the best way to plant plant 237 00:13:57,600 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 1: a tree? You know, how far down should it go? 238 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:03,840 Speaker 1: But only questioning certain things. So I guess I want 239 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:07,600 Speaker 1: to put out a call. I want to say two things. 240 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:11,640 Speaker 1: I think it's really important when you're talking about racial justice, Like, 241 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:14,960 Speaker 1: if you actually want racial justice, the first order of 242 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 1: business is to give every American an education of public education, 243 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:21,960 Speaker 1: particularly AK through twelve, education of the first rate, independent 244 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:25,600 Speaker 1: of skin color or socio economic status. And we have, 245 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 1: my opinion is that we have let down an awful 246 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:31,960 Speaker 1: awful lot of people. And the solution to that is 247 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:35,640 Speaker 1: not equity, in other words, trying to gerry read outcomes delution. 248 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:38,560 Speaker 1: The solution to that is the quality of opportunity. And 249 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:41,640 Speaker 1: so I think what I would like to see conservatives 250 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 1: the space that they move in is well, many spaces, 251 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:48,240 Speaker 1: but in the context of this conversation, I'd like to 252 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:52,560 Speaker 1: see them move into honest and sincere attempts to fix 253 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:55,600 Speaker 1: school systems in the worst neighborhoods for the worst people, 254 00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:58,840 Speaker 1: independent of their skin color. That's the first thing. The 255 00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:01,920 Speaker 1: second thing that I would like to see is for 256 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:04,680 Speaker 1: all this talk about diversity, diversity is a code word 257 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:10,240 Speaker 1: for intellectual homogeneity. Right, if diversity really meant diversity, then 258 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:13,280 Speaker 1: for example, you wouldn't see the excuse me, the vile 259 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:16,800 Speaker 1: and bitriol spewed that Larry Elder particularly, and all the 260 00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:20,040 Speaker 1: horrible names that he's been called because he's a black 261 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 1: man who doesn't toe the party line. Right. So the 262 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 1: other thing that I would like to see, and I 263 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 1: just on Glenn Beck and I asked him this. So 264 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 1: here's my question to you. Um. One of the things 265 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:35,000 Speaker 1: that we see in this in our university system is 266 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:38,160 Speaker 1: culling of voices. They came for the right, then they 267 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:40,320 Speaker 1: came for the concertors, and they came from the moderates, 268 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 1: then they came for the liberals, and and now they're 269 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 1: in their own little chamber of derangement. So my my 270 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:51,200 Speaker 1: question to you is do you think we should have 271 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:59,040 Speaker 1: a Mark A Marxists in an economics department at a university. Wow? 272 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:02,120 Speaker 1: That's an interesting and I absolutely believe Marxism ought to 273 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 1: be studied and known and understood. I love the phrase 274 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:08,520 Speaker 1: chamber of derangement. By the way, So that's gonna be 275 00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:11,120 Speaker 1: my new band. That's a good one. That's a good 276 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:15,160 Speaker 1: album title to um. Yeah, that's a really interesting question. 277 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 1: I if there is the free of exchange of ideas, 278 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:24,760 Speaker 1: if there's the marketplace of ideas functioning, I don't mind 279 00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:28,320 Speaker 1: some guy saying no, no, no, Marxism is correct, because 280 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:33,400 Speaker 1: any rational examination of the evidence will render that opinion. 281 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:36,600 Speaker 1: You know, silly, um. So I'm not particularly threatened by it. 282 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:39,840 Speaker 1: I don't love it, but that's fine. So so I 283 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:42,560 Speaker 1: do love it, and I'll tell you why. So I 284 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:47,960 Speaker 1: love the best proponents, people who actually believe what they teach. 285 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:51,200 Speaker 1: So I'm an atheist. I teach an atheist class, and 286 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:55,840 Speaker 1: I have Christians, many very very prominent Christians and apologists 287 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:58,160 Speaker 1: come in and teach the best arguments to the existence 288 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 1: of God. And the reason is because I don't believe 289 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:05,240 Speaker 1: those things. And so I would be doing my my 290 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:09,800 Speaker 1: students and injustice if I taught them without having You know, 291 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:13,880 Speaker 1: um um, I was crazy to see this. Let let's 292 00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:17,320 Speaker 1: say this way. Students need to learn from people who 293 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:20,960 Speaker 1: believe things in the most diverse ways possible. So I 294 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:23,280 Speaker 1: love the idea of their being a Marxist, even though 295 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:26,879 Speaker 1: I hate Marxism, because I think our students need to 296 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:29,560 Speaker 1: see our freedom night. They need to see people with 297 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:32,760 Speaker 1: psychology and behaviors. They need to see, they need to 298 00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 1: see people who have um a wide range of beliefs, 299 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:39,199 Speaker 1: and we need to give them the tools to figure 300 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:42,840 Speaker 1: out for themselves what the answer is. I just might 301 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:46,879 Speaker 1: be I was gonna say, I was gonna say, my 302 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:49,800 Speaker 1: my discomfort is with the hundreds of millions who have 303 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:53,359 Speaker 1: died at the hands of communism, And I mean, would 304 00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:58,439 Speaker 1: you would you likewise be infused about somebody teaching actual fascism, 305 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:01,679 Speaker 1: not antifa's view of fascism, actual fascism and trying to 306 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:05,800 Speaker 1: convince the kids, look, this is a better system. Yeah. 307 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:10,440 Speaker 1: I think it's less about convincing and more about framing 308 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:13,200 Speaker 1: an argument in the most charitable way possible. So yeah, 309 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:16,240 Speaker 1: I have no problem with that, even though I disagree. 310 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:19,000 Speaker 1: And the reason for that is not only so that 311 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:22,439 Speaker 1: the kids can get the best representatives of the of 312 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:25,879 Speaker 1: the ideas, but they can make the decisions for themselves. 313 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:29,119 Speaker 1: Like that, the moment that you say, oh, we can't 314 00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 1: have this person here or we can't have this person 315 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:36,159 Speaker 1: speak out, you you were in very serious danger of 316 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:39,080 Speaker 1: becoming the things that we hate. That's a very good 317 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:44,000 Speaker 1: So we have to allow a system that has the 318 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:47,040 Speaker 1: free exchange of ideas. Now, somebody recently, I don't have 319 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:48,440 Speaker 1: it in front of me, but put out a tweet 320 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:53,360 Speaker 1: about nine eleven being the white, hetero capitalist patriarchy professor 321 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:58,719 Speaker 1: from Syracuse University. Yeah, and the university did exactly what 322 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:01,120 Speaker 1: he should do and what it should have done, and said, 323 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:04,760 Speaker 1: look this this academic So freedom of speech in an 324 00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:09,000 Speaker 1: academic context is even more privileged, even a higher value. 325 00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:13,119 Speaker 1: It's like we need people like that too, you know, whatever, 326 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:15,360 Speaker 1: rock the boat, say anything they want to speak. That's 327 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 1: the whole idea of protection from tenure. And the university 328 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:20,720 Speaker 1: issued a wonderful statement that I wish my university would 329 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:23,679 Speaker 1: have issued for me, that we may or may not agree, 330 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:26,680 Speaker 1: but this person has the right to speak openly and honestly. 331 00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:30,240 Speaker 1: And then the students. That was a statement. But I 332 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:34,760 Speaker 1: would like to see the kind of intellectual change um 333 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:39,200 Speaker 1: wrestling with ideas and the type of academy in which, look, 334 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:41,600 Speaker 1: you can disagree with people, you can agree with people, 335 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:45,160 Speaker 1: But here are the people who have they believe this, 336 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:48,920 Speaker 1: those are publishing it, they have researched it. We've given 337 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:51,440 Speaker 1: you the tools to make an analysis and the examination. 338 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:56,760 Speaker 1: Now go forward. You do that and our democracy will flourish. Right, 339 00:19:57,040 --> 00:19:59,960 Speaker 1: you teach people not to attack other people on the 340 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:03,360 Speaker 1: basis of the mutable characteristics, but to engage their ideas, 341 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:07,560 Speaker 1: and we were all better off. Peter, Maybe we can compromise. 342 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:10,000 Speaker 1: Let's keep the Marxist chained in a cage and just 343 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:15,119 Speaker 1: bring them out for lectures. Would that be fair? No, 344 00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:19,400 Speaker 1: we have to give everybody, you know, and that's why 345 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:22,840 Speaker 1: I said a Marxist not. But the problem comes when 346 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:25,240 Speaker 1: you stack a whole department with people who have the 347 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:28,320 Speaker 1: same beliefs, and then the kids will go into that 348 00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:31,399 Speaker 1: and they're saying, well, everybody, my economics professor believe this. 349 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:34,680 Speaker 1: He's written all these books. This is true. No, that's 350 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:37,760 Speaker 1: why you need intellectual diversity. And the other thing is 351 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:41,120 Speaker 1: nobody will trust the bodies of literature and the quote 352 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:44,920 Speaker 1: unquote scholarship coming from you know, about really important things 353 00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:47,679 Speaker 1: like global climate change, because they'll say, well, why should 354 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:49,880 Speaker 1: I try? People have actually said this to me, why 355 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:53,679 Speaker 1: should I trust that? Everybody here is a leftist? And 356 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 1: they're right, right, right, But if if you had a 357 00:20:56,680 --> 00:21:01,719 Speaker 1: mix of people, right, if you in a climate science 358 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:05,160 Speaker 1: you know, if you pee Christians and everybody different views 359 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:08,240 Speaker 1: and they came to a convergence of opinion, they came 360 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 1: to a consensus. Now that would be something that people 361 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:13,440 Speaker 1: would then look at that and say, Okay, wow, these 362 00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:16,399 Speaker 1: people like me, they represent my voice, they agree with 363 00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:25,280 Speaker 1: other people like you and I are agreeing about this stuff. Yeah. 364 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:28,800 Speaker 1: I mean, this is the fundamental principle upon which our 365 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:32,320 Speaker 1: democracy has to be based. We have to have open inquiry, 366 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:34,840 Speaker 1: we have to have free speech, and we also have 367 00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:38,000 Speaker 1: to teach people. You know what, if somebody doesn't agree 368 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:41,479 Speaker 1: with you, that's okay. You can still hang out with them. 369 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:43,320 Speaker 1: They can still be your friend, you can still go 370 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:46,359 Speaker 1: drinking with them, you can still marry them. It's okay. 371 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:48,520 Speaker 1: In fact, it's probably good if they don't agree with 372 00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:51,760 Speaker 1: you about everything, because then you can have some fun 373 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:55,320 Speaker 1: and good conversations. But we're strayed from that because we're 374 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:58,119 Speaker 1: not allowing people to have different that's my book, how 375 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:01,240 Speaker 1: to have impossible conversations. We're straight aid from that because 376 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:04,880 Speaker 1: those conversations don't take place in the university. And it's 377 00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:07,200 Speaker 1: not only that they don't take place. It said. If 378 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:12,480 Speaker 1: somebody has a view that doesn't conform to what's morally fashionable, 379 00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:15,160 Speaker 1: it's not just like they're wrong, but it's like they're 380 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:18,880 Speaker 1: a bad person. And that's the narrative. People are pointing out. 381 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:21,720 Speaker 1: If you don't agree with this, you're a racist, you're 382 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:24,560 Speaker 1: a bigot, you're a homeleful. Well how about this? How 383 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:27,199 Speaker 1: about maybe I don't agree because I don't see the 384 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:31,919 Speaker 1: evidence for how about how about that? Well? Yeah, amen 385 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:33,960 Speaker 1: to that, And that's the speaking of the fraud we 386 00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:36,880 Speaker 1: were talking about before. The idea that I'm a racist 387 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:40,359 Speaker 1: for disagreeing with you is literally, you know, begging the 388 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:42,520 Speaker 1: question in the classical sense. I mean, well, what am 389 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:44,320 Speaker 1: I supposed to do? Just stand here and get punched? 390 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:48,040 Speaker 1: I guess ideologically, but I know Jackie had something just 391 00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:50,679 Speaker 1: to make things easier. What what's the name you like 392 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:53,600 Speaker 1: to put on this, this whole thing is woke ism? 393 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:56,400 Speaker 1: What you like best? Or or you know? It's nice 394 00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:58,440 Speaker 1: that when we throw on the term Marxist we all 395 00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:00,800 Speaker 1: know what we mean. I think it it helped combat 396 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:05,320 Speaker 1: this if we have an agreed upon term that everybody's using. Yeah, 397 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:07,320 Speaker 1: I don't. I don't think you could have an agreed 398 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 1: upon term. The people who participate in woke ideology don't 399 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:15,440 Speaker 1: like woke Helen pluck Rose, author of Cynical Theories, which 400 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:18,440 Speaker 1: is the v book on the subject, called the Critical 401 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:22,000 Speaker 1: Social Justice Yes but genius book. She calls it critical 402 00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:25,840 Speaker 1: social justice. Whenever I write it, I write it social 403 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:29,320 Speaker 1: justice uppercase S and upper case J. So there is 404 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:32,280 Speaker 1: no consensus on this, but I like to term it 405 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:38,040 Speaker 1: either social justice, social justice ideology, or woke ideology. Sometimes 406 00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:40,760 Speaker 1: people call it a worldview too, which is true. It 407 00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:43,960 Speaker 1: is actually a worldview. It's a worldview which bases itself 408 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:47,760 Speaker 1: on the fact that the West is inherently racist, sexist, etcetera. 409 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:49,960 Speaker 1: And we have to destroy the institutions that leads to 410 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:51,879 Speaker 1: those things. And I just want to throw this in 411 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:54,280 Speaker 1: so I don't forget to say it. Um, you mentioned 412 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:56,679 Speaker 1: integrity earlier when we're talking about I mean, I mean, 413 00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:58,320 Speaker 1: one of the most interesting things that's come out of 414 00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:02,720 Speaker 1: this is you. I think you needed this that. Um. 415 00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:04,840 Speaker 1: Everybody that's reached out to you for an interview is 416 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:07,320 Speaker 1: on the right, and no one, no liberals have I mean, 417 00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:09,840 Speaker 1: like you mentioned earlier, that's amazing. But you brought up 418 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:13,120 Speaker 1: the term integrity, and I can't imagine more integrity than 419 00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:16,480 Speaker 1: what you've done. I assume you're not an independently wealthy man, 420 00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:20,680 Speaker 1: and you quit your job because, um, because you believe 421 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:22,800 Speaker 1: in this stuff too much. And I mean, I'm not kidding. 422 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:25,000 Speaker 1: I will remember what you did for the rest of 423 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:29,360 Speaker 1: my life whenever I come to a crossroads like this. Yeah, 424 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:35,040 Speaker 1: I I I appreciate that. I never wanted any of this, um, 425 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:38,119 Speaker 1: and I did. I just could not stay at the 426 00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:40,520 Speaker 1: place where I had to compromise my integrity anymore. I 427 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:44,040 Speaker 1: just couldn't do it. I couldn't do it. So, you know, 428 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:47,119 Speaker 1: I think I can tell you about what led up 429 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:48,919 Speaker 1: to that, or I can. I mean, we can go 430 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,600 Speaker 1: from many places. Yeah, actually, you know, it's funny. I 431 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:53,800 Speaker 1: was about to go there. You mentioned Helen pluck Rose 432 00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:57,000 Speaker 1: and her co author James Lindsay's Cynical Theories, and the 433 00:24:57,040 --> 00:24:59,919 Speaker 1: paper you wrote, the Conceptual Penis as a Social constra 434 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:02,520 Speaker 1: and then the work you did with James and Helen 435 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:07,480 Speaker 1: is one of my favorite things that's ever happened. Can 436 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:10,760 Speaker 1: you tell us about the conceptual penis as a Social 437 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:13,240 Speaker 1: construct and then the other papers and what what we 438 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:15,600 Speaker 1: were trying, what were you trying to prove or or 439 00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:18,320 Speaker 1: or you know, exposed, and then what was the reaction 440 00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:21,479 Speaker 1: to it. Sure, happy to tell you about that. So 441 00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:25,919 Speaker 1: the conceptual penis was a hoax paper, and Alan's social 442 00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:32,679 Speaker 1: there are actually penises. Um, it's really I'm glad you 443 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,360 Speaker 1: actually read the paper because I think that the papers 444 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:37,679 Speaker 1: is really funny. That's the other thing about ideologs. They 445 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:42,679 Speaker 1: have no sense of humor. That so one of the 446 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:45,879 Speaker 1: things that we were trying to do is to show 447 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 1: that these bodies of scholarship they're not rigorous, they're not 448 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:54,560 Speaker 1: based on evidence, and they are ideological. And so we 449 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,679 Speaker 1: wrote the conceptual penis is a social construct and we 450 00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:00,440 Speaker 1: published it in a in a low ranked It wasn't 451 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:02,960 Speaker 1: a great journal. It was a new journal as well, 452 00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:06,720 Speaker 1: and we received a tremendous amount of criticism, and much 453 00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:10,880 Speaker 1: of that criticism was justified. And that criticism was you 454 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:14,920 Speaker 1: didn't prove what you thought you proved about these disciplines. 455 00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:17,439 Speaker 1: If you want to prove it, you need to do 456 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:22,560 Speaker 1: the following things one, two, three, four, five, etcetera. And 457 00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:26,280 Speaker 1: so I said to to to Jim, to James lindsay, dude, 458 00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:28,840 Speaker 1: this is awesome. They told us exactly what we need 459 00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:31,000 Speaker 1: to do, so let's do it. He's like, all right, 460 00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:37,080 Speaker 1: so then we wrote twenty papers and we forwarded absolutely insane, 461 00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:40,760 Speaker 1: totally deranged thecs. I probably can't say because many of 462 00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:42,520 Speaker 1: them are sexual on the air right now. Oh no, 463 00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:44,639 Speaker 1: it's a podcast. If we have to, we'll believe it. 464 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:49,879 Speaker 1: Go ahead, Okay about you know, penetrative anal sex and 465 00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:54,080 Speaker 1: transphobia and you know, putting people in matt white males 466 00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:56,679 Speaker 1: and chains as a whole of experience of reparations in 467 00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:59,440 Speaker 1: the classroom. And that one did not get public. We 468 00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:01,679 Speaker 1: we got called by the Wall Street Journal before we 469 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:04,879 Speaker 1: published it. But the goal was to say so we 470 00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:07,919 Speaker 1: we did exactly what people wanted us to do, like 471 00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:11,919 Speaker 1: exactly what they wanted to do. So but instead of saying, wow, 472 00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:15,280 Speaker 1: maybe there's a problem here, like maybe this is something 473 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:17,560 Speaker 1: we need to think about or be more reflected on 474 00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 1: because this is informing public policy. Instead of doing that, 475 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:24,240 Speaker 1: they came after me. They tried to take my job. 476 00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:27,280 Speaker 1: That's their response to this. So I want to make 477 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:29,640 Speaker 1: sure it's it's it's clear what you were trying to prove. 478 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,320 Speaker 1: You were trying to prove that these fields that masquerade 479 00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:38,000 Speaker 1: as science aren't science. It's not just that they're not science, 480 00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:42,520 Speaker 1: it's that it's that they're the musings of ideologues. There's 481 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:47,000 Speaker 1: no evidence for these. So so the background piece that 482 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,400 Speaker 1: you need to know is, as a general rule, there 483 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:52,560 Speaker 1: are maybe a few exceptions to this, but this is 484 00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:56,600 Speaker 1: almost a rule. Seven papers in seven years his tenure. Right, 485 00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:59,800 Speaker 1: there's a job for life. I had no background in 486 00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:03,200 Speaker 1: this stuff. Jim had no background. Hell and had no background. 487 00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:07,520 Speaker 1: Gym's a mathematician. And we delved into the literature. We 488 00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:10,840 Speaker 1: did a deep dive in the literature. We really read 489 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:13,960 Speaker 1: the journals, we read the articles, we did our homework 490 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:17,480 Speaker 1: plus plus and the point was to show that the 491 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:23,000 Speaker 1: policies that we're shaping our institutions, first the university or 492 00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:26,480 Speaker 1: the university system as an institution, and then the policies 493 00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:29,520 Speaker 1: as they were seeping out, these are not not only 494 00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:32,879 Speaker 1: are they not scientific, they're not anything. They're just a 495 00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:35,719 Speaker 1: bunch of people get together. We call it a term 496 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 1: Brett Weinstein uses for when we went over his house, 497 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:42,640 Speaker 1: he's the former Evergreen professor, and we were explaining the 498 00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:44,720 Speaker 1: grievance studies thing. Early on he said, oh, it's like 499 00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:47,840 Speaker 1: idea laundering. So a bunch of idea loogs get together 500 00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:53,200 Speaker 1: and they have Um, they have an idea and they're 501 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:57,480 Speaker 1: they're in academia, and they published that idea. They discharge 502 00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:00,440 Speaker 1: the moral impulse in a journal and then comes out 503 00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:02,360 Speaker 1: as the other side, as knowledge. So then they go 504 00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:04,200 Speaker 1: around pointing when you say, well, how do you know, 505 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:07,480 Speaker 1: they point to the bogus scholarship that they themselves meet up. 506 00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 1: But that's not based on evidence. And not only that, 507 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:15,120 Speaker 1: you couldn't publish anything in there that went against what 508 00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:20,400 Speaker 1: what was morally fashionable, Like the whole ecosystem exists to 509 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:24,600 Speaker 1: prop up certain moral conclusions and they teach that to people, 510 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 1: credential themselves, get tenure, and then hire other people who 511 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:32,360 Speaker 1: believe the same things. That's how that's why you have 512 00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:36,800 Speaker 1: ideological capture of the university institutions. That's the mechanism. That's 513 00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:40,120 Speaker 1: how they've done it. Boy, I love that image of 514 00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:42,960 Speaker 1: idea laundering. That's a great metaphor. And and by the way, 515 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:45,560 Speaker 1: you've ruined the dog park for me, uh you with 516 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:48,400 Speaker 1: your rape culture at the dog park paper, which was 517 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:52,760 Speaker 1: hilariously brilliant. Well here here's something that we don't talk 518 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:56,680 Speaker 1: about because it's just too complicated. Um So everybody loves 519 00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:00,280 Speaker 1: the dog park and and you know p traditions, can 520 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:03,120 Speaker 1: I rape culture and looking at it through the lens 521 00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:06,120 Speaker 1: of black feminist criminology. I mean, it's just and that 522 00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:09,520 Speaker 1: the total Well, yeah, I chose I chose that. I 523 00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:11,800 Speaker 1: chose that because I had to find something that they 524 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:14,920 Speaker 1: could not criticize, like what was the thing? And they 525 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:18,239 Speaker 1: could never criticize black feminist criminology because that would be 526 00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:21,680 Speaker 1: both misogynists and racist. So I choose to look at 527 00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:24,680 Speaker 1: dog dog humping incidents. And the other thing is there 528 00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:28,080 Speaker 1: was some utterly insane number of dogs and talk comping 529 00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:32,440 Speaker 1: incidents that that I uh, that we alleged to have reported, 530 00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:35,280 Speaker 1: and you know, people stopping their dog rage by doing 531 00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:39,640 Speaker 1: jumping Jackson just I mean these crazy ship dog humping 532 00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:43,000 Speaker 1: incidents or d h I s if you will. Yeah. Yeah. 533 00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:46,400 Speaker 1: So so the thing we never talked about that that 534 00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:48,920 Speaker 1: goes on along the lines of the conceptual penis because 535 00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:51,560 Speaker 1: it's a very complicated idea. But we got in the 536 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:55,760 Speaker 1: number one gender studies journal in the world, there are 537 00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:59,480 Speaker 1: two of them. Um, we we got in this paper 538 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,640 Speaker 1: that argued that was against us, we specifically named us, 539 00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:06,800 Speaker 1: and we talked about the conceptual penis in this paper 540 00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:11,200 Speaker 1: and we said that basically, we're terrible people. Uh. We 541 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:14,560 Speaker 1: titled the paper when the Joke's on You, as if 542 00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:17,240 Speaker 1: the joke were on Jim and I for writing the 543 00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:20,400 Speaker 1: conceptual penis. But the fact that we published a paper 544 00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:24,280 Speaker 1: the joke about us that was bogus and said things 545 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:27,080 Speaker 1: that were absurd was when the joke was on them. 546 00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:29,280 Speaker 1: So the joke was actually on them when they're thinking 547 00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:33,720 Speaker 1: that the joke is on us. So we know, was 548 00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:41,840 Speaker 1: that clear? Yes, that is incredible Hall of Mars. It's 549 00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:44,240 Speaker 1: very complicated to what we don't talk about it. But 550 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:47,840 Speaker 1: so so that's the part of the problem is that 551 00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:52,520 Speaker 1: people are basing their conceptions of reality on these journals. 552 00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:55,840 Speaker 1: And what you have is not only are they grievance filled, 553 00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:59,719 Speaker 1: but they're racially divisive. They teach people. Look, I know 554 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:03,080 Speaker 1: I right now he's become a friend of mine, young 555 00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:06,400 Speaker 1: kid who's at Oregon Health Science University. I can actually 556 00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:10,400 Speaker 1: read you what it said, um the screenshot he sent me. 557 00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:15,200 Speaker 1: But they've asked students to self segregate on the basis 558 00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:22,680 Speaker 1: of race. I mean that's crazy. Yeah, that is just amazing. Now, 559 00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:25,160 Speaker 1: who were the liberals here and who are the conservatives? 560 00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:27,760 Speaker 1: So that's why those terms don't really mean anything. You're 561 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:31,360 Speaker 1: absolutely right, Well, conservatives at this point, good ones, I think, 562 00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:36,720 Speaker 1: are conserving liberalism. But anyway, exactly that, Dave Rubens made 563 00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:39,360 Speaker 1: that point, and I think that's absolutely true. I don't 564 00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:41,800 Speaker 1: even know what those terms mean anymore. And so people 565 00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:44,680 Speaker 1: will say, well, you're liberally conserved. Well what do you mean, Like, 566 00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:46,720 Speaker 1: give me a specific policy and then I'll tell you 567 00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:50,080 Speaker 1: my answer. But you know, people like you know, rubrics, 568 00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:52,960 Speaker 1: umbrella terms like oh, I'm this, I'm this. But the 569 00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:56,040 Speaker 1: fact is that in this cultural moment, the political reality 570 00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:59,680 Speaker 1: is more complicated than that, it's more nuanced, and you 571 00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:02,400 Speaker 1: all so seeing I publish a piece about this in 572 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:05,520 Speaker 1: the American mind, I call it the Great realignment. There's 573 00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:09,160 Speaker 1: a realignment now if there's a political and ideological realignment 574 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:13,080 Speaker 1: based upon things like rules of engagement. So while you 575 00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:14,600 Speaker 1: and I may have different I don't know what you 576 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:18,200 Speaker 1: guys think about abortion, but I'm pro choice. Well, we 577 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:21,000 Speaker 1: we may have differences of opinion about that, we agree 578 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:24,280 Speaker 1: how to solve those differences of opinion, right, We debate, 579 00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:27,840 Speaker 1: we converse, you can even protest if you want. Um. 580 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:32,160 Speaker 1: But but the new, the new threat to cognitive liberty 581 00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:35,400 Speaker 1: are you know, the are the woke. Are the woke, 582 00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:38,080 Speaker 1: and they don't play by those rules of engagement. So 583 00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:40,400 Speaker 1: if if you publish something or you say something they 584 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,160 Speaker 1: don't like, they go after your family, they try to 585 00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:45,840 Speaker 1: get your job taken away from you, they file complaint, 586 00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:49,360 Speaker 1: they weaponize offices of diversity, equity, and inclusion. So you're 587 00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:52,560 Speaker 1: talking about people who do not abide by traditional rules 588 00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:55,480 Speaker 1: of engagement. So that's one thing in the in this 589 00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:59,040 Speaker 1: great realignment that we're experiencing. I mean there are other 590 00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:01,040 Speaker 1: factors as well, you know, like there's a truth that 591 00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:04,120 Speaker 1: can be known, there are more philosophical things, but I 592 00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:08,839 Speaker 1: think it Behoovese people. You have to be willing to 593 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:11,520 Speaker 1: step If you're a liberal and you're against woke stuff, 594 00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:14,040 Speaker 1: you have to be willing to step across the line 595 00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:17,120 Speaker 1: when Ted Cruise, for example, says something and agree and 596 00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:19,839 Speaker 1: you will agree with him because it's true. Not because 597 00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:22,319 Speaker 1: you have to agree with every single thing Ted Cruz says, 598 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:25,520 Speaker 1: but you have to look when when someone says something 599 00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:29,239 Speaker 1: that's true that corresponds to evidence and facts, you have 600 00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:31,839 Speaker 1: to stand up to it, even if it's against your 601 00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:35,719 Speaker 1: own tribe. In spite of the consequences. That's what intellectual 602 00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:41,240 Speaker 1: integrity means. Well, the you know, the the intellectual mainstreams 603 00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:43,200 Speaker 1: running in the other direction. Though, this is something we've 604 00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:46,360 Speaker 1: talked about a fair amount. Is that to to signal 605 00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:49,759 Speaker 1: your allegiance to your tribe, you bellow opinions that you 606 00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:52,560 Speaker 1: don't even think are are real, but you know it's 607 00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:56,120 Speaker 1: a tribal indicator. And the more ridiculous, the more clear 608 00:34:56,600 --> 00:35:00,759 Speaker 1: your indication of tribal loyalty is. So the counter fact 609 00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:03,120 Speaker 1: that the counter factual I would love to be able 610 00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:05,320 Speaker 1: to run or in a parallel universe, is if Trump 611 00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:08,440 Speaker 1: had won the presidency, who would be avoiding getting the 612 00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:11,440 Speaker 1: vaccine at that point, because not because of any the 613 00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:13,880 Speaker 1: science being any different, just because who was behind pushing 614 00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:16,040 Speaker 1: it at the time. I think that would perfectly prove 615 00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:20,600 Speaker 1: your point. Yeah, that that would I don't want to 616 00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:24,560 Speaker 1: go down this rabbit hole, but the utter, unmitigated and 617 00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:26,880 Speaker 1: fifty five years of my life, I think this is 618 00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:31,120 Speaker 1: the worst catastrophe of this country and is signaling a 619 00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:34,120 Speaker 1: new error from US. The unmitigated to call it a 620 00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:39,439 Speaker 1: call Afghanistan and catastrophe is actually not even remotely doing 621 00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:41,839 Speaker 1: it justice. But you know that's the thing, like, well, 622 00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:43,640 Speaker 1: what if Trump were in or could you take the 623 00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:46,160 Speaker 1: words of the sentence and you can when they say black, 624 00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:48,080 Speaker 1: can you put white in there? Can you put white 625 00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:53,240 Speaker 1: in it? But even in those cases, um that these 626 00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:56,719 Speaker 1: folks have had many years, like an incubation chamber to 627 00:35:56,760 --> 00:36:00,200 Speaker 1: incubate ideas. So they've changed the meanings of words. So, 628 00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:04,160 Speaker 1: for example, racism is now has a power component instead 629 00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:07,239 Speaker 1: of the traditional definition of discriminating me against an individual 630 00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:10,520 Speaker 1: in the basis of a racial stereotype. Right, So they 631 00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:14,520 Speaker 1: changed the meanings of words, and it makes it really difficult. Look, 632 00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:19,600 Speaker 1: life is difficult enough, fake news, Russian bots, we have 633 00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:22,520 Speaker 1: all this stuff we have to contend with, and on 634 00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:24,839 Speaker 1: top of that, we have people running around who changed 635 00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:28,040 Speaker 1: the meanings of basic words. I'm telling you, like, you know, 636 00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:30,040 Speaker 1: I get all these emails from my kids school. They 637 00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:33,600 Speaker 1: go to p punctions, equity, equity, equity, equity. How many 638 00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:37,080 Speaker 1: people do you think actually know what the word equity means. Yeah, 639 00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:39,279 Speaker 1: we've talked about the fair amount. That's one of the 640 00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:41,680 Speaker 1: that's one of the ways they line up so many 641 00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:46,040 Speaker 1: well meaning, suburban, college educated white gals and guys as well, 642 00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:49,640 Speaker 1: as they've redefined these words, and I hear anti racist, 643 00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:52,440 Speaker 1: and if I didn't know what Abram x Kendy has 644 00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:54,600 Speaker 1: written and what that really means, I think, well, of 645 00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:57,719 Speaker 1: course you've got to be anti racist, but it's come 646 00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:02,719 Speaker 1: something completely different, right, and those sorts of things, and 647 00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:05,360 Speaker 1: that's by design, by the way, of course, that's not 648 00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:07,920 Speaker 1: a bug of the system. That's a feature of the system. 649 00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:12,920 Speaker 1: And so look, so one of the things people say, well, 650 00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:15,040 Speaker 1: was there a final straw for you? Like, what was 651 00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:18,200 Speaker 1: the thing that finally? So I tried to I'm going 652 00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:21,120 Speaker 1: to relate this to our conversation. So I tried to 653 00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:24,359 Speaker 1: get a meeting with the president of Portland State University. Right, 654 00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:26,399 Speaker 1: So a lot of things I didn't put in the letter, 655 00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:32,320 Speaker 1: like the faculty Senate passed a resolution and the National 656 00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:37,200 Speaker 1: Association of Scholars Oregon chapter has an amazing video that 657 00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:40,560 Speaker 1: they took from the Faculty Senate meeting when they passed 658 00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:46,719 Speaker 1: an actual resolution about criticism of ideas being harassment and 659 00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:50,400 Speaker 1: specifically criticism of critical race theory. Right. Can you imagine 660 00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:54,239 Speaker 1: the people in the engineering school saying, hey, criticism of 661 00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:57,719 Speaker 1: this bridge design is the engine is harassment or philosopher saying, hey, 662 00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:00,399 Speaker 1: criticism of my ideas of free will or ans free 663 00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:03,640 Speaker 1: will or whatever. It's that. No, that's insane. The the 664 00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:07,880 Speaker 1: the more ideological you are. To keep your ideology in place, 665 00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:10,400 Speaker 1: you have to have things like political correctness, You have 666 00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:14,440 Speaker 1: to have things like blasphemy laws. So the university passes 667 00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:17,719 Speaker 1: faculty resolution. And then one of my colleagues wrote a 668 00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:19,960 Speaker 1: hit piece on me and the Chronicle of Higher Education, 669 00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:23,680 Speaker 1: and I responded to that, Uh, well, let me not 670 00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:26,759 Speaker 1: hit piece. Let me rephrase that by saying, uh, she 671 00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:30,600 Speaker 1: wrote an article about me, and and uh and and 672 00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:35,440 Speaker 1: basically the idea was that criticism of ideas is harassment. 673 00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:39,000 Speaker 1: And I responded in that And if you guys have 674 00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:43,200 Speaker 1: a moment, it would be to read that, because it 675 00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:46,759 Speaker 1: would give you context for for this whole thing that's 676 00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:51,640 Speaker 1: happening in the academy. Criticism of ideas is not harassment. 677 00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:56,439 Speaker 1: Criticizing and immutable property of a person is a no 678 00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:59,080 Speaker 1: no because that person can't change it, so it doesn't 679 00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:01,680 Speaker 1: do them any good. For example, to criticize someone in 680 00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:05,239 Speaker 1: a wheelchair, or to criticize me because I'm fifty five. 681 00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:07,920 Speaker 1: I can't change the color. I could change the cold, 682 00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:11,960 Speaker 1: my hair, I can't change my age. So so I 683 00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:14,920 Speaker 1: was in the dean's office. So I asked the president 684 00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:18,839 Speaker 1: for a five minute meeting repeatedly, and his staff told 685 00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:21,840 Speaker 1: me repeatedly, he's too busy. He's too busy for a 686 00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:24,560 Speaker 1: five minute meeting. Okay, Finally I managed to have like 687 00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:29,719 Speaker 1: a three minute meeting with a dean. And this individual 688 00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:34,560 Speaker 1: told me, you know, I really did my best to 689 00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:39,920 Speaker 1: watch my tone. I was extraordinarily respectful. And I actually 690 00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:42,000 Speaker 1: had known this this person, so it's not like they're 691 00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:44,279 Speaker 1: total stranger to me. We live in Portland, we know 692 00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:49,120 Speaker 1: each other. So I said to this individual, you know 693 00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:55,239 Speaker 1: that Portland's State university made the list of the talk 694 00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:58,359 Speaker 1: of the Foundation for Individual Rights and Education. It's Greg 695 00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:01,080 Speaker 1: Glukyanas book. He's the guy who wrote the Caddling of 696 00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:05,640 Speaker 1: the American Violence. Yeah. Yeah, So I said, you know 697 00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:09,560 Speaker 1: that I would urge your viewership to your listeners to 698 00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:12,040 Speaker 1: fact check me when I say this, fact check every 699 00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:14,640 Speaker 1: don't believe anything I say, fact check everything. Poland State 700 00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:19,160 Speaker 1: University of worst colleges for free speech. And he turned 701 00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:23,000 Speaker 1: to me with total sincerity and said, it's a good 702 00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:26,800 Speaker 1: thing to be on those lists, and I was so 703 00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:30,560 Speaker 1: utterly blown away, like because in other words, this wasn't 704 00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:34,840 Speaker 1: a bug of the woke ideology. This is a feature 705 00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:39,719 Speaker 1: like this is actually baked into the educational system. This 706 00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:43,400 Speaker 1: is a feature. And it was in that moment I 707 00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:48,200 Speaker 1: realized I had to quit, and then the pandemic hit 708 00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:51,399 Speaker 1: and that kind of through through things for a loop. 709 00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:54,920 Speaker 1: But um, I mean that is a month. That is 710 00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:58,920 Speaker 1: a grown task. I mean think about that, like, that's 711 00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:01,440 Speaker 1: not a symposium. You know. In the Greeks, they get together, 712 00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:03,879 Speaker 1: they talk, they dispute, they argue, they laugh, they drink, 713 00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:09,399 Speaker 1: and said, no, this is a church. These are yeah, 714 00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:13,759 Speaker 1: you know, I'm reminded of I'm reminded the final sceniversally, 715 00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:15,920 Speaker 1: the final scene in Brave New World where the you know, 716 00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:20,239 Speaker 1: the all powerful leader essentially says to the dissident, um no, 717 00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:22,279 Speaker 1: I don't take it personally. I'm not angry at you 718 00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:24,600 Speaker 1: or anything. Here's what we're doing, here's why we're doing it. 719 00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:26,600 Speaker 1: You don't fit in, so you need to go away. 720 00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:30,520 Speaker 1: And the cool rationality of it is always, you know, 721 00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:32,680 Speaker 1: has always chilled me. And for that guy to say, 722 00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:34,719 Speaker 1: oh no, no, that's a good thing. I mean that's 723 00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:40,799 Speaker 1: like finding out he's a pod person or something. I mean, right, 724 00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:44,600 Speaker 1: and and that's the other thing. So so that's when 725 00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:49,200 Speaker 1: you really just let that idea percolate and then detonate, 726 00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:52,880 Speaker 1: like when you really think about what that means. Here, 727 00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:56,919 Speaker 1: individuals who are positive they have the truth, they want 728 00:41:56,920 --> 00:42:00,680 Speaker 1: to look at the system as an indoctrination. It's kind 729 00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:03,360 Speaker 1: of a factory where people come in and they put 730 00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:08,680 Speaker 1: ideas about specifically race, gender, and sexuales, etcetera. But whatever is, 731 00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:11,120 Speaker 1: you know, the moral orthodoxy. They put that in your head. 732 00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:15,279 Speaker 1: They no longer have the north Star's truth. And when 733 00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:19,640 Speaker 1: you do that, the natural consequences there can't be free 734 00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:22,879 Speaker 1: inquiry and open expression. I mean, there can't be think 735 00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:25,560 Speaker 1: about it like this, think about it like this. So 736 00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:28,080 Speaker 1: if the president again, I want everybody to fact check 737 00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:30,319 Speaker 1: every single thing I'm saying. Do not take my word 738 00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:32,920 Speaker 1: for it. I don't have the exact quotation, but it's 739 00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:37,240 Speaker 1: something like the highest priority of the university is racial justice, right, Okay, 740 00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:40,160 Speaker 1: So let's just think about that. If the it doesn't 741 00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:42,560 Speaker 1: even matter if it's racial justice, it doesn't matter what 742 00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:49,200 Speaker 1: is If the highest priority of a football team is winning, 743 00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:51,840 Speaker 1: which is what the highest priority of a football team 744 00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:57,160 Speaker 1: should be right that any other priority that cons that 745 00:42:57,239 --> 00:43:03,279 Speaker 1: conflicts with that would by definition be a or priority, right, right. 746 00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:06,440 Speaker 1: So that's why they don't, for example, have diversity requirements 747 00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:11,120 Speaker 1: on professional sports teams, because any other priority would have 748 00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:15,360 Speaker 1: to be d prioritized or lowered. So, if your highest 749 00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:19,840 Speaker 1: priority is racial justice and free speech or free inquiry 750 00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:22,600 Speaker 1: or open expression of ideas can flis with that, you 751 00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:28,200 Speaker 1: have to always side with your highest priority by definition, 752 00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:32,239 Speaker 1: because it's your highest priority. Well, right, And we're in 753 00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:36,520 Speaker 1: a situation here where what has long practically forever been 754 00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:39,240 Speaker 1: the highest priority of a university, seeking of the truth, 755 00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:42,239 Speaker 1: the exchange of ideas is now seen as detrimental to 756 00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:46,640 Speaker 1: the new orthodoxy. So it's not just not as higher priority, 757 00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:52,160 Speaker 1: it's specifically as it's a sin, it's a point, it's right, 758 00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:56,879 Speaker 1: it's not above, it's a feature. And to avoid that, 759 00:43:56,880 --> 00:44:02,080 Speaker 1: that's why you have to have intellectual, political, uh an 760 00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:05,839 Speaker 1: ideological diversity. You have to have that Marxist in there, 761 00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:10,960 Speaker 1: a Marxist. You have to have that um Keynsian, you know, 762 00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:13,160 Speaker 1: you have to have someone teaching Hiak, you have to 763 00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:19,719 Speaker 1: you have to have that intellectual diversity, so that the 764 00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:24,040 Speaker 1: highest priority, so that the institution doesn't become something other 765 00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:28,680 Speaker 1: than a means to enable people to understand the world 766 00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:32,040 Speaker 1: and to figure out what's true. And if they're wrong, 767 00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:35,920 Speaker 1: you know what, that's okay too. But nobody was forced 768 00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:39,440 Speaker 1: feeding them that idea. They made the best. They did 769 00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:43,759 Speaker 1: the best they could to come up to to be 770 00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:47,239 Speaker 1: sincere and ask honest questions to try to figure out 771 00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:50,640 Speaker 1: what's true. And they kept the value in mind of 772 00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:54,560 Speaker 1: being willing to revise their beliefs. And that's another characteristic 773 00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:59,040 Speaker 1: that ideologues don't have. They're not willing to change their minds. 774 00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:02,680 Speaker 1: And that's a fundamental feature of what it is that 775 00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:06,640 Speaker 1: makes someone rational. And we have we are not teaching that. 776 00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:10,239 Speaker 1: We have lost that and what have we bartered it for. 777 00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:14,839 Speaker 1: We've bartered it for an ideology that separates and divides us. 778 00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:18,480 Speaker 1: If you try to get the if you try to 779 00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:20,400 Speaker 1: get the universities down to one Marxist, there's gonna be 780 00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:22,720 Speaker 1: a lot of Marxists on the street corners saying will 781 00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:26,120 Speaker 1: share for food or something. But um my, my final 782 00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:28,959 Speaker 1: question for you would be I used to read about 783 00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:31,440 Speaker 1: the cultural revolution in China that happened through what the 784 00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:33,840 Speaker 1: late sixties, early seventies, and I would read that stuff 785 00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:35,759 Speaker 1: and I think, I don't I just don't get it. 786 00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:37,560 Speaker 1: I mean, like, how how could this ever happen? It 787 00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:40,360 Speaker 1: didn't quite make sense to me. I now get it completely, 788 00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:42,960 Speaker 1: because it's starting to make sense to me in a 789 00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:46,400 Speaker 1: in a very scary way. Do you think, um, do 790 00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:48,160 Speaker 1: you think we could get there? Do you feel you 791 00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:50,640 Speaker 1: feel like do you feel like it's getting worse or 792 00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:52,799 Speaker 1: better or enough people waking up to it? Where where 793 00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:56,520 Speaker 1: are we on the continuum there? That's that's a that's 794 00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:59,040 Speaker 1: a great question. I don't know the answer to that. 795 00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:02,000 Speaker 1: I know that this is not sustainable. I don't know 796 00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:06,160 Speaker 1: what the expiration data is. People don't like living like this. Um. 797 00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:08,480 Speaker 1: And again, like you said before, the whole thing is 798 00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:11,240 Speaker 1: so stupid. You know, it's not like that they're offering. 799 00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:16,680 Speaker 1: You know, what's the end result of any of this stuff? 800 00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:18,919 Speaker 1: And that's the other thing. It's so idiotic. Just think 801 00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:22,799 Speaker 1: about white fragility. It doesn't work with anything else. Why 802 00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:24,680 Speaker 1: should it work with whiteness? I mean, it doesn't work 803 00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:27,920 Speaker 1: with witches. You're a witch? No, I'm not. That's proof 804 00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:30,759 Speaker 1: that you're a witch like you're denialist groups of the thing. 805 00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:33,919 Speaker 1: So it doesn't work with literally anything else. Why would 806 00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:35,840 Speaker 1: it work with I mean, the whole thing is so stupid. 807 00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:38,360 Speaker 1: It's like what the junior high school people do to 808 00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:41,280 Speaker 1: each other. But yet it's who doing an unbelievable number 809 00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:46,320 Speaker 1: of our of our intelligentia, and it's captured the institutions. 810 00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:49,040 Speaker 1: So I don't think that this is sustainable. I think 811 00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:53,040 Speaker 1: that this will do unbelievable damage to our institutions. I 812 00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:57,000 Speaker 1: think it already has done damage to the institutions. Who 813 00:46:57,480 --> 00:47:01,600 Speaker 1: is Ah, no, you go. I was just gonna say, 814 00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:04,240 Speaker 1: I hope you're right about the cultural revolution thing, because 815 00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:06,640 Speaker 1: I see some of the the earmarks of it in 816 00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:09,400 Speaker 1: the kids are being urged to either ignore their parents 817 00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:11,480 Speaker 1: or turn them in or tell their teachers about them, 818 00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:13,680 Speaker 1: and that sort of thing. And the idea of dragging 819 00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:15,560 Speaker 1: your own parents into the street to see them beating 820 00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:17,840 Speaker 1: is so horrific most of us can't imagine it. I 821 00:47:18,200 --> 00:47:21,480 Speaker 1: think you had to have a communist system for that 822 00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:24,560 Speaker 1: to catch fire like it did. Um. You know, Hitler 823 00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:28,600 Speaker 1: send into power through the ballot box famously. Um. But 824 00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:33,040 Speaker 1: you know, one more aspect of the cultural revolution, totalitarian systems. 825 00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:35,840 Speaker 1: The rest of it are show trials, And I wondered 826 00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:37,840 Speaker 1: if you could just spend a couple of minutes on 827 00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:42,440 Speaker 1: your experience with the Title nine investigation. Yeah. Well I 828 00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:44,799 Speaker 1: had to sign paperwork saying I couldn't talk about it, 829 00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:49,040 Speaker 1: so I can't really talk about it. Wow. Yeah, well, 830 00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:52,479 Speaker 1: now it was there just out of curiosity. I don't Peter, 831 00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:54,480 Speaker 1: you probably don't know this about me, Joe Getty. I 832 00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:57,800 Speaker 1: almost went to law school, so I'm the show's legal expert. 833 00:47:58,239 --> 00:48:02,560 Speaker 1: Um Was there was this a contract? Was there consideration 834 00:48:02,680 --> 00:48:05,239 Speaker 1: in exchange? You you you gave up the right to 835 00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:10,120 Speaker 1: talk about this in exchange for what it was an 836 00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:13,239 Speaker 1: exchange for I? I am. You know, we're represented by 837 00:48:13,239 --> 00:48:15,400 Speaker 1: a union. And and that's the other thing that I've 838 00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:18,840 Speaker 1: changed my mind on, probably a conversation for another show. 839 00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:21,920 Speaker 1: I do not like teachers unions one iota, but I 840 00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:24,880 Speaker 1: can tell you in no uncertain terms, like, as a fact, 841 00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:28,000 Speaker 1: I would have lost my job long ago if not 842 00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:30,600 Speaker 1: for my teachers union in general and not for the 843 00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:33,000 Speaker 1: guy who heads the teacher's union. I was seeing this 844 00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:36,319 Speaker 1: guy literally like every day from complain. In fact, he 845 00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:39,239 Speaker 1: went up for renewal and I asked you to write 846 00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:40,839 Speaker 1: um a letter like I don't know, two or three 847 00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:43,279 Speaker 1: years in the row because he was seeing me. So 848 00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:45,440 Speaker 1: I've kind of had a change of change of mind 849 00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:48,680 Speaker 1: on the importance of teachers unions. But yeah, I know, 850 00:48:48,719 --> 00:48:52,239 Speaker 1: it's it's it's it's uh, it's interesting. So the title 851 00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:55,400 Speaker 1: line investigations, there's no due process in that, so you 852 00:48:55,440 --> 00:48:58,360 Speaker 1: don't have access to what you're being infused if you 853 00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:02,200 Speaker 1: have to infer that from the invest the gator. And now, look, 854 00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:05,360 Speaker 1: it is often said that we are not um that 855 00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:09,719 Speaker 1: people who consider us their enemies, we do not say 856 00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:13,480 Speaker 1: kind things about. So I'm gonna tell you something unbelievably 857 00:49:13,520 --> 00:49:18,719 Speaker 1: truthful about the title line investigator in the Office of Diversity. 858 00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:22,520 Speaker 1: You could accuse these people of many things, but the 859 00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:25,320 Speaker 1: thing you cannot accuse them of is not being thorough. 860 00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:31,200 Speaker 1: These people are the most thorough people. I mean, they 861 00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:40,160 Speaker 1: had a gustopo like thoroughness and compliment. They were calling 862 00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:44,600 Speaker 1: in form of students, colleagues, t s, people I did 863 00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:47,520 Speaker 1: you know, independent studies with people I had known like 864 00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:51,759 Speaker 1: years ago. They went back like years and they were 865 00:49:51,800 --> 00:49:54,560 Speaker 1: summoning them to the Office of Diversity. They were I 866 00:49:54,600 --> 00:49:57,479 Speaker 1: mean I was walking around campus and people were coming 867 00:49:57,600 --> 00:49:59,719 Speaker 1: up to me, that's what the whole beating your wife 868 00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:02,120 Speaker 1: and family, and then like other people would come up 869 00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:04,840 Speaker 1: with this I hear about you didn't want I was just, 870 00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:10,560 Speaker 1: you know, the the particularly um insidious part about that is, 871 00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:13,080 Speaker 1: you know, you know, my daughter is adopted from China, 872 00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:19,399 Speaker 1: so like there's another level of hideousness that's going on there, 873 00:50:19,560 --> 00:50:21,560 Speaker 1: and there's really nothing you can do. I mean, you 874 00:50:21,640 --> 00:50:24,640 Speaker 1: can quit, but you can't say you know, you can't 875 00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:27,000 Speaker 1: even see that, you forget anything. You can't even see 876 00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:30,400 Speaker 1: the charges, right, And then I love the outcome of it. 877 00:50:30,560 --> 00:50:32,920 Speaker 1: Loved it in quotes and that it is so bizarre 878 00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:35,680 Speaker 1: it's actually it reminds me of one of Iron Rand's 879 00:50:35,880 --> 00:50:38,680 Speaker 1: most famous quotes about you know, we don't expect you 880 00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:40,719 Speaker 1: to follow these laws. We expect you to break them, 881 00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:43,640 Speaker 1: because once you're a lawbreaker, then we own you. And 882 00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:46,320 Speaker 1: at the end of your title nine things you mentioned 883 00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:49,719 Speaker 1: in your letter of resignation, they essentially said, you're not 884 00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:53,080 Speaker 1: guilty of these bizarre charges, but as long as we've 885 00:50:53,120 --> 00:50:55,400 Speaker 1: got you in our clutches, you're not allowed to do this. 886 00:50:55,560 --> 00:50:56,920 Speaker 1: You have to do this, and we think you ought 887 00:50:56,960 --> 00:51:02,440 Speaker 1: to get counseling, and and it's like, wait what, so I, UM, 888 00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:06,240 Speaker 1: that's right. So I requested a meeting. After that meeting, 889 00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:10,320 Speaker 1: and then I read a very long statement UM to 890 00:51:11,040 --> 00:51:14,880 Speaker 1: the chair of the department and the Chief Diversity Opics, 891 00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:17,760 Speaker 1: and my union guys, Phil phil Lesh, who was again 892 00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:24,719 Speaker 1: unbelievably phenomenal, um, and and among those, why am I 893 00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:27,319 Speaker 1: not allowed to render my opinion or teach in such 894 00:51:27,360 --> 00:51:30,040 Speaker 1: a way that my opinion about protected classes can be known? 895 00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:34,600 Speaker 1: When there were entire wings of university architecture dedicated to activism. 896 00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:38,040 Speaker 1: In fact, at the time I think alignment that was 897 00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:42,000 Speaker 1: the Women's the Gender Studies Department of Women's Studies or 898 00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:44,000 Speaker 1: whatever it's called. The p s U had the word 899 00:51:44,080 --> 00:51:48,200 Speaker 1: activists or some variant there of seven times on the 900 00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:52,400 Speaker 1: web page. So you have a whole you have entire 901 00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:55,600 Speaker 1: departments basically anything with the word studies in it. You 902 00:51:55,719 --> 00:52:00,160 Speaker 1: had entire departments that are geared towards activism. Explicit we 903 00:52:00,520 --> 00:52:04,880 Speaker 1: not only rendering their opinion, but actually geared to make activists. 904 00:52:05,239 --> 00:52:08,080 Speaker 1: But I can't render my opinion about a protective class 905 00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:11,680 Speaker 1: of teaching such a way that it's known and that's 906 00:52:11,719 --> 00:52:14,000 Speaker 1: the other thing. Think about how crazy that is. So 907 00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:16,680 Speaker 1: if someone comes to me and says, hey, do you 908 00:52:16,760 --> 00:52:20,440 Speaker 1: think this minority should be enslaved and in chained? I 909 00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:22,839 Speaker 1: have to say I cannot render my opinion. I mean, 910 00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:26,440 Speaker 1: it's so crazy on so many levels. You know. I 911 00:52:26,560 --> 00:52:29,560 Speaker 1: picture you and Copernicus and Galileo sitting at a bar 912 00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:32,160 Speaker 1: and just staring at your bears and saying, I hear 913 00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:35,719 Speaker 1: your brother, I hear you as you ran into rather 914 00:52:35,960 --> 00:52:39,920 Speaker 1: similar orthodoxes and results. Um, hey, Peter, I hope we 915 00:52:39,960 --> 00:52:43,360 Speaker 1: can stay in touch. We're absolutely hoping to support you 916 00:52:43,480 --> 00:52:45,800 Speaker 1: and people who think like you as much as we 917 00:52:45,880 --> 00:52:47,759 Speaker 1: can for as long as they keep us on the 918 00:52:47,840 --> 00:52:51,799 Speaker 1: air before some woke group gets us fired. But it's 919 00:52:51,800 --> 00:52:53,600 Speaker 1: great to talk to you and and and chin up. 920 00:52:53,719 --> 00:52:55,799 Speaker 1: I mean, we really admire the hell out of it. Yeah, 921 00:52:55,840 --> 00:52:58,399 Speaker 1: thank you. I appreciate that you guys have always been 922 00:52:58,520 --> 00:53:01,320 Speaker 1: terrific supporters and I'm I'm very grateful for that. You 923 00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:04,719 Speaker 1: can find me on Twitter at Peter burgosand g H O, 924 00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:08,200 Speaker 1: S S I N. And I just started a nonprofit 925 00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:10,759 Speaker 1: that's going to fight back about this. It's called UM 926 00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:16,319 Speaker 1: National Progress Alliance, and we're at National Progress Alliance dot org. 927 00:53:16,480 --> 00:53:19,840 Speaker 1: So I appreciate you guys have always been been supportive, 928 00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:22,600 Speaker 1: and it's a it's a great way to remember that 929 00:53:23,040 --> 00:53:26,600 Speaker 1: we are Americans and we and our disagreements actually make 930 00:53:26,719 --> 00:53:30,080 Speaker 1: us stronger. And you know, I would love to go 931 00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:32,080 Speaker 1: out and have beers with you guys and hang out 932 00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:35,480 Speaker 1: and you know, have spirited conversations to the early morning. 933 00:53:36,080 --> 00:53:40,480 Speaker 1: I'll see if Galileo is available. All right, thanks many, 934 00:53:40,520 --> 00:53:43,759 Speaker 1: good to talk, all right, thank you. All right. See 935 00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:50,480 Speaker 1: that's principle, man. You don't see that that much these days, no, 936 00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:56,000 Speaker 1: I think, Um, we've all had situations like this in 937 00:53:56,040 --> 00:53:59,520 Speaker 1: our lives where uh, we don't want to do a 938 00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:02,600 Speaker 1: certain thing, but we end up in a situation where 939 00:54:02,640 --> 00:54:04,239 Speaker 1: the realized there's no choice. This is not what I 940 00:54:04,280 --> 00:54:06,560 Speaker 1: want to do, but I've got no choice. And that's 941 00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:09,920 Speaker 1: where he was. Yeah, I I absolutely admire his character 942 00:54:10,040 --> 00:54:11,759 Speaker 1: and I know he would have done this in a 943 00:54:11,880 --> 00:54:15,120 Speaker 1: variety of circumstances. In his letter resignation is brilliant and 944 00:54:15,239 --> 00:54:17,399 Speaker 1: persuasive in the rest of it, but in a weird way, 945 00:54:17,520 --> 00:54:21,160 Speaker 1: Portland's state made it easy for him in that they 946 00:54:21,239 --> 00:54:26,960 Speaker 1: were so patently crazy and unfair and oppressive and unwilling 947 00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:29,239 Speaker 1: to listen to reason. I mean, he really had no 948 00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:32,040 Speaker 1: choice unless he was just gonna drink himself to death 949 00:54:32,400 --> 00:54:34,560 Speaker 1: and pretend that it wasn't happening. Well, when one of 950 00:54:34,600 --> 00:54:36,600 Speaker 1: the deans says, no, it's a good thing we're on 951 00:54:36,719 --> 00:54:40,520 Speaker 1: that list of being the worst university for free speech 952 00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:43,880 Speaker 1: to America, You're done. I mean what there's unless you 953 00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:46,560 Speaker 1: think you can reform them from the inside. You obviously can. 954 00:54:46,960 --> 00:54:49,680 Speaker 1: You're done, you know. He mentions he was sworn at 955 00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:53,280 Speaker 1: and spit on walking across campus on more than one occasion. 956 00:54:53,480 --> 00:54:55,480 Speaker 1: He's obviously a man of the mind and a man 957 00:54:55,560 --> 00:54:57,600 Speaker 1: of peace. I had a punched people in their heads. 958 00:54:58,160 --> 00:55:01,440 Speaker 1: But that's why Peter Gashian is a better fellow than 959 00:55:01,480 --> 00:55:03,680 Speaker 1: I am. I find a quad with a pool cue 960 00:55:03,760 --> 00:55:08,240 Speaker 1: or a sack by Nichols. Amen to that, brother. Extra 961 00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:08,760 Speaker 1: large