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Speaker 1: Pushkin.

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Speaker 2: Just a quick note here. You can listen to all

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Speaker 2: of the music mentioned in this episode on our playlist,

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Speaker 2: which you can find a link to in the show

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Speaker 2: notes for licensing reasons, each time a song is referenced

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Speaker 2: in this episode, you'll hear this sound effect. All right, enjoyed.

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Speaker 1: Episode, Welcome to Broken Record. I'm Bruce Headlam. Some voices

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Speaker 1: just grab you right away. That happened to me recently

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Speaker 1: when I heard this voice on my car radio. There

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Speaker 1: was something just so haunting about his voice, self assured,

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Speaker 1: but oddly tentative, like he was still working out the

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Speaker 1: meaning of the song while he was singing it. So

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Speaker 1: of course we just had to have him Unbroken Record.

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Speaker 1: It turns out, like a lot of kids, Jays and

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Speaker 1: Dara became fascinated by American UZI by listening to faraway

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Speaker 1: radio signals late at night. The difference was that he

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Speaker 1: wasn't listening to those signals in Buffalo or Memphis or Duluth, Minnesota.

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Speaker 1: He was in Nairobi, Kenya, listening to his parents' radio

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Speaker 1: while they slept. That's when he decided his own American

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Speaker 1: dream was to come here and become a singer. His

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Speaker 1: first album Tales of America is full of great songs, wistful, cautionary,

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Speaker 1: even violent songs about leaving home and finding oneself in

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Speaker 1: a strange country, pursuing an unknown path. And like a

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Speaker 1: lot of newcomers to the States, Jays and Dara can

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Speaker 1: sometimes see things more clearly than we can, and he

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Speaker 1: can express them in that beautiful, haunting voice. We sat

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Speaker 1: down with him recently in an La studio and asked

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Speaker 1: him to share his American dream with us. You want

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Speaker 1: to start with a torch song? Okay? That is JS

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Speaker 1: and Dara. We're sitting together in a studio in La.

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Speaker 1: I think if I'm gonna set the scene, I have

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Speaker 1: to mention your jacket, which is this tremendous red plaid jacket.

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Speaker 1: Where did you get that?

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Speaker 3: I believe it? God, this is in Boston. But I

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Speaker 3: was drawn to it because this fabric is sort of

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Speaker 3: similar to a fabric that a tribe in Kenya where's

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Speaker 3: it's called the mass I tribe. And there are some

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Speaker 3: fabrill that looks just like.

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Speaker 1: This and it goes with red pants it which is

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Speaker 1: a bonus.

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Speaker 3: I am a big fan of red pants.

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Speaker 1: Okay, well you wear them well, so tell me about

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Speaker 1: that song.

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Speaker 3: Torch song is the name of that. This is This

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Speaker 3: is one of the songs that I'm still I'm still

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Speaker 3: trying to figure out what the painting behind him is,

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Speaker 3: behind behind the song is what those words mean?

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Speaker 1: So tell me you how did it come about?

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Speaker 3: Then? You know, Todd song was just words that I

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Speaker 3: put down and uh and I put a melody on them,

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Speaker 3: and you know, now it's a song, And I think,

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Speaker 3: how how it happens to me is usually after these

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Speaker 3: songs have existed for a while, then slowly their meanings

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Speaker 3: gradually reveal themselves to the conscious mind, you know, like

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Speaker 3: the things that were going in the background of my

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Speaker 3: in the background on my head or writing it, they

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Speaker 3: sort of revealed themselves. It turns out to be this.

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Speaker 3: It's like a portrait that just sort of reveals itself

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Speaker 3: as you put it, or maybe maybe one of those

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Speaker 3: negative photo you put it in underwater and water is

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Speaker 3: time and once it stays there within, you know, within

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Speaker 3: the sort of scope of time, it reveals itself and

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Speaker 3: you see the actual picture.

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Speaker 1: You might actually be writing lyrics right now.

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Speaker 3: They're just words really, And so I think some of

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Speaker 3: the songs in the record I've sort of I'm gradually

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Speaker 3: figuring them out by discussing them with people, and some

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Speaker 3: of them, like torch Song in particular, it still puzzles

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Speaker 3: me as to what those words are referring to.

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Speaker 1: You were born in Kenya in Nairobi, right, yes, okay,

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Speaker 1: and when was that?

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Speaker 3: That would have been August of ninety two.

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Speaker 1: Right, So what was growing up in Nairobi like then?

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Speaker 3: It was? It was great. You know, I think when

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Speaker 3: you're when you're a kid, you're just a kid, and

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Speaker 3: that's just that, you know, you're very busy being a kid,

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Speaker 3: that nothing else is really important, because I mean, it's

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Speaker 3: too much time being a child. It's just it's all

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Speaker 3: the time in the world, and it's it's it takes

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Speaker 3: all the time in the world. And so you know,

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Speaker 3: when I think about, you know, my childhood in retrospect,

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Speaker 3: and I could see like, hmm, perhaps that might have

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Speaker 3: been a difficult time. But then you know, when you're

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Speaker 3: back at the time, it was just your child, and

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Speaker 3: you know, and you're busy being a child and nothing

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Speaker 3: else much other than your.

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Speaker 1: What was your first memory of music?

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Speaker 3: My family tells this story though when I was about

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Speaker 3: seven years old, we always had this family gatherings every

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Speaker 3: year where you know, you just everyone meets in one place,

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Speaker 3: you know, just all relatives and you you meet this

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Speaker 3: guy who was apparently your uncle, but you had no

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Speaker 3: idea because you saw him at the store the other day, like,

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Speaker 3: oh hey, I'm your uncle, boy. You were just selling

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Speaker 3: me potatoes the other day. So so, you know, we

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Speaker 3: had these all these gatherings and you know, everyone just

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Speaker 3: comes together, and one of these gatherings is about seven

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Speaker 3: years old. When we were there, my cousins had this

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Speaker 3: terrible idea to give me alcohol. So they gave me,

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Speaker 3: you know, I think, some little bit of alcohol, and

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Speaker 3: apparently I got inebriated very quickly, as as you do

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Speaker 3: when you're seven years old, and I just started, you know,

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Speaker 3: singing out loud, just like a crazy person. And I

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Speaker 3: was parently singing smells like teen spirit in just the

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Speaker 3: wrong words. And you know those are some like the

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Speaker 3: aardiest sort of you know slashes.

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Speaker 1: You heard the song on the radio, yes, oh okay,

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Speaker 1: so you're listening to radio by that point.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, just passively though, you know, you know it's

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Speaker 3: there because we had this tiny little radio that the

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Speaker 3: whole family had to share and sometimes I would just

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Speaker 3: wake up in the middle of the night so I

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Speaker 3: can steal some extra time. It's like three in the morning,

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Speaker 3: everyone's asleep, sneak and then grub the radio and start

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Speaker 3: listening for all the songs. So it turned from this

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Speaker 3: passive thing to like, you know, I want it now

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Speaker 3: and I'm sicking. I'm seeing it now.

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Speaker 1: You your family didn't speak English at home.

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Speaker 3: No, we we spoke. We spoke to Heley in the house.

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Speaker 3: Is sort of those you know, it's what, it's what,

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Speaker 3: it's what we did.

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Speaker 1: So did you with smells like teen Spirit? Were you singing?

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Speaker 1: Were you singing it in Swahili?

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Speaker 3: I was, well, no, I wasn't singing any words. There

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Speaker 3: was just gibberish things.

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Speaker 1: It's just can you can you play a few bars

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Speaker 1: of how you played it? Then?

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Speaker 3: Well, I don't know if it's it's It might probably

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Speaker 3: be embarrassing to to try and imitate my seven year

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Speaker 3: old self trying to sing smells like teen Spirit with

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Speaker 3: no words. It was just so like, who is it

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Speaker 3: that he saidanger?

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Speaker 1: Just nothing, by the way, that's how everybody's sang.

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Speaker 3: It wasn't just absolutely gibberish.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so you started singing, and then you just kept

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Speaker 1: singing after that, after the cousins spiked your drink.

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Speaker 3: As far as singing, I started practicing my singing, I

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Speaker 3: suppose in private, after you know, hearing. It happened in

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Speaker 3: two phases. So I heard I had the music of

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Speaker 3: Jeff Buckley's just quite accidentally as a kid, and I

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Speaker 3: had how.

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Speaker 1: Did that come with that?

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Speaker 3: So with the sort of advent of CDs, when that

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Speaker 3: became a thing, we had all these people, I suppose

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Speaker 3: you to call it pirating, who would go on the

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Speaker 3: Internet and they would just get anything, any music or

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Speaker 3: film or whatever. They would just download anything that was

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Speaker 3: coming out of the US UK and then they would

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Speaker 3: sell them on the streets. So I discovered just a

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Speaker 3: crazy amount of music that way that would never be

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Speaker 3: on the radio. But you know, for some reason, this

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Speaker 3: pirating experts just dug them out somewhere and they were

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Speaker 3: just lying about. And so I was already on this

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Speaker 3: trajectory where you know, I was drawn to this music.

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Speaker 3: So when I figured this out, I would just go

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Speaker 3: there all the time and would you know, play me this,

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Speaker 3: And then I you know, I found I found some

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Speaker 3: Buckley songs that way, and at that point, I was like, whoa,

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Speaker 3: what's it? What is it doing with this voice? This

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Speaker 3: is amazing? So I tried, you know, start locking myself

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Speaker 3: in the room and try to practice that.

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Speaker 1: And you know, do you remember which songs of his

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Speaker 1: you practice?

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Speaker 3: It was Forget Her Forget Yeah, that was that was

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Speaker 3: the song I heard, and I was like, well, this

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Speaker 3: is great, And I think that sort of began what was,

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Speaker 3: you know, me trying to be a singer at all

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Speaker 3: in private? And then I think the second phase of that,

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Speaker 3: I was listening to Radiohead and how told muses this

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Speaker 3: sort of high for such a voice and that, you know,

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Speaker 3: and being like, well, how do you what's that? How

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Speaker 3: do you why would you do that with your voice?

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Speaker 3: And how do you even do that? And so, you know,

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Speaker 3: get locked myself in the room and also try to

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Speaker 3: go up there, which you know, I still try to

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Speaker 3: do that every once in a while, you know, just

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Speaker 3: I did. I don't know if I do it well enough,

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Speaker 3: but I think I'm still sort of I feel every

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Speaker 3: time I'm singing, I feel I'm transported back to that

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Speaker 3: moment when I'm a child, and I'm still just trying

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Speaker 3: to trying to figure out how to sing.

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Speaker 1: Because is that a good feeling.

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Speaker 3: It's it's nerve racking. It's probably not a good feeling.

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Speaker 3: It's still a nerve wracking just because it's this is singing.

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Speaker 3: It was not something that was open about and it

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Speaker 3: was not something that you know, was encouraged growing up

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Speaker 3: in me. So it's something I'm still not confident, you know,

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Speaker 3: like I don't I don't feel like a confidence singer really.

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Speaker 1: Now, you did tell a funny story once about the

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Speaker 1: song Knocking on Heaven's Door. Could you tell us.

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Speaker 3: That, Yeah, you know it was this one, this one,

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Speaker 3: I remember it quite well. We just left the school

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Speaker 3: and were standing outside the school and you know, there's

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Speaker 3: there's all this people who are selling all this foods

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Speaker 3: out there, and I'm having this talk, you know, fight, pay,

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Speaker 3: debate whatever you want to call the friend about, you know,

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Speaker 3: about rock and you know, growing up listening to all

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Speaker 3: this rock songs, I feel something of an X spot.

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Speaker 1: What were the bands you were listening to then?

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Speaker 3: Well, you know Nevana a radio had said that, Kiri, Oasis,

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Speaker 3: you know, just all that stuff that was coming out

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Speaker 3: of late late nineties. Out of two thousands, but yeah,

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Speaker 3: Guns of Roses and all that, and so so we

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Speaker 3: have this discussion about not can happens o guns and Roses,

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Speaker 3: you know, the famous guns and Roses song. So we're

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Speaker 3: talking about this and like, yeah, there's guns of Rosas

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Speaker 3: song can have his doing it goes well and actually

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Speaker 3: that that song was by this other guy He's called

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Speaker 3: Bob Dylan. And I'm thinking, well, no, you're wrong, it's

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Speaker 3: I know this. I I've been listening for what, I

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Speaker 3: know what I'm doing. So we go into this in

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Speaker 3: his fight, and then we ended up making a bet,

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Speaker 3: you know, for a hundred can you show things just

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Speaker 3: you know, there's a bunch of money for me, but

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Speaker 3: then not too much money here in American currency. But

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Speaker 3: we lost that bad. I lost that bad because I

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Speaker 3: ended up finding out that it was actually by this

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Speaker 3: cynical Bob Dylan. And that's sort of how I found

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Speaker 3: Dylan's music and found folk music that way, and just

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Speaker 3: fell into this sort of Rabbi hole that I feel

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Speaker 3: like I'm still digging myself deeper into every day and

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Speaker 3: I can't see how I'll get out now.

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Speaker 1: At this point, you still didn't You didn't play guitar

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Speaker 1: at this point or any instment, right, but you were

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Speaker 1: still writing songs.

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Speaker 3: I was writing songs.

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Speaker 1: I was writing words, you know, rewriting melodies with them.

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Speaker 3: Sometimes sometimes, but I never, you know, thought much of

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Speaker 3: those melodies. You know, I wasn't confident in them, but

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Speaker 3: I wrote words. And I think one of the reasons

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Speaker 3: why I dove pretty deep into you know, that sort

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Speaker 3: of focused rabbit hole and Dylan is because when I

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Speaker 3: discuss with Dylan's music and then I was, you know,

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Speaker 3: reading his songs, and I'm thinking, well, well, these are

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Speaker 3: these these are just stories, their poems with melodies. Maybe

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Speaker 3: maybe I can just do this with all these words

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Speaker 3: I've I've been writing since I was the child, and

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Speaker 3: perhaps I can. I can put some melody on them,

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Speaker 3: and maybe we'll call them folks, So maybe I can

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Speaker 3: have some kind of career.

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Speaker 1: We'll have more with js Andra after this break. We're

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Speaker 1: back with js and Dora. Can you play Saying Goodbye

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Speaker 1: for us?

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Speaker 3: Yes?

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Speaker 1: So your next step in your musical development was far

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Speaker 1: from Kenya. It was Minneapolis, right, Tell me how you

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Speaker 1: ended up there?

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Speaker 3: Well. As soon as I found Dylan's music and folk

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Speaker 3: music in general, it was a time when I think

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Speaker 3: I really needed that as well. I was just a

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Speaker 3: bit you know, was in haschool's been lost a bit

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Speaker 3: add just you know, being being drawn to this thing

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Speaker 3: that just consistently dissuaded by everyone. You know, well, you

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Speaker 3: love something so much, but it's probably a taboo for

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Speaker 3: you to to love it. That being music just you know,

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Speaker 3: it's just it was just not something that was part

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Speaker 3: part of the culture.

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Speaker 1: Really, what was your family's ambition for you.

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Speaker 3: Uh, you know, medicine, law just you know, that was

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Speaker 3: that was that was just how it had to be.

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Speaker 1: And so with either of your parents lawyers or doctors, not.

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Speaker 3: Really you know, I think it's it's sort of just

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Speaker 3: something that's sort of ingrained by the culture there and

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Speaker 3: how they grew up, when they grew up and all

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Speaker 3: of that. But so that left me in is a

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Speaker 3: place where you know, this thing I wanted I couldn't

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Speaker 3: even talk about.

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Speaker 1: You were playing guitar by this point, I was not.

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Speaker 3: I was not. This is just a stupid dream of

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Speaker 3: as a kid. And so the first thing I did

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Speaker 3: was applied to the University of Minnesota because I figured

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Speaker 3: I wanted to go to Minnesota because of my you know,

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Speaker 3: first nation with dealing at the time. So I applied

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Speaker 3: the University of Minnesota, didn't go well. Tried applying for

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Speaker 3: you know, work opportunities in Minnesota. Is trying to find

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Speaker 3: ways to come to the States because you know, it's

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Speaker 3: quite difficult to move here, and you know, I just

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Speaker 3: try this for years and nothing really ever worked until

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Speaker 3: one time at Green Courd Entry application the lottery green

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Speaker 3: kind thing that was a relative that applied for me

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Speaker 3: and a couple of other people and went through.

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Speaker 1: Nobody told you about the weather in Minnesota before you.

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Speaker 3: Left, not really. No one can tell you that in

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Speaker 3: a way that you can conceptualize, right, So you know,

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Speaker 3: they'll tell you it's cold, but then you're like, oh cool,

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Speaker 3: so because you know cold, I mean I felt cold before.

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Speaker 3: It's fine. But you know, whatever, whatever you know transpires

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Speaker 3: in Minnesota, there should be a different word for that.

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Speaker 3: That's not cold. This is not cold. It's just the

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Speaker 3: worst thing you can think of on the other side

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Speaker 3: of cold.

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Speaker 1: Did you arrive in the winter, right right.

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Speaker 3: In the heart of winter? Yeah, I was, you know,

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Speaker 3: like mid February as you know, that one winter where

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Speaker 3: people were just saying, oh, this is one of the

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Speaker 3: worst winters we've ever had. Yeah, So yeah, got there

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Speaker 3: right in the middle of winter in February and just

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Speaker 3: had this crazy, crazy body shock.

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Speaker 1: When did you finally pick up a guitar.

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Speaker 3: It was a bit after I landed, so you know,

301
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Speaker 3: I moved there and I had this vision that I

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Speaker 3: think I'm going to form a band and I'm going

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Speaker 3: to take it on the road. And I've seen things

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Speaker 3: online they do this now. I've seen some videos and

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00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:03,360
Speaker 3: the interwebs, you know, going around with bands and playing

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00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:06,639
Speaker 3: songs and good old America. So yeah, I'm moving in.

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Speaker 3: This is what I'm trying to do. It is, you know,

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Speaker 3: telephone with band, because I can't play anything at this time.

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Speaker 3: I just have all these words and a couple of

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Speaker 3: melodies for them. I'm thinking, maybe, you know, a band,

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Speaker 3: can uh sort of put some flesh around it and

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Speaker 3: we can go play it out. And then I quickly

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Speaker 3: realized that I have I don't know any person who

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Speaker 3: who's in music or who can uh form a band

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Speaker 3: with me. So I said, okay, that's a short set back.

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Speaker 3: Let me see if I can pick up the guitar

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Speaker 3: and just accompany myself, you know, because if I don't

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Speaker 3: know anyone, what else are you going to do?

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Speaker 1: Do you remember the first songs you learned.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I was knocking Heaven's door.

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Speaker 1: Oh okay, obviously because because guns and roses.

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Speaker 3: Because guns and roses, right, so I can Heaven's door

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Speaker 3: part of I believe, and also is blowing in the wind. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: And I sort of just learned a few songs and

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Speaker 3: you know, got some grasp of some chords and then

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Speaker 3: just took my words and try to put some melody

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Speaker 3: around them. I didn't dive deep into it, and so

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Speaker 3: I still just try to to this day. Just full

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Speaker 3: around and see where I can find a sound. You

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Speaker 3: just fool around with chords and just whatever, see what

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Speaker 3: the melody. Yeah, just go where the finger goes and

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Speaker 3: see what happens.

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Speaker 1: Well, you make it sound all very accidental, but you're

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Speaker 1: very resourceful. You couldn't find a band, so you picked

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Speaker 1: up a guitar, You learned the chords you needed, So

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Speaker 1: you must have been very driven in some ways.

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Speaker 3: I think, yeah, I think I was. Yeah, just you know,

338
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Speaker 3: what else are you going to do? You you made

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Speaker 3: this huge move. You're you know, very far away from home.

340
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Speaker 3: There is nothing to do then to move forward.

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Speaker 1: When did you start playing in front of people?

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Speaker 3: Probably maybe three four years ago. So, I mean I learned.

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Speaker 3: I was very as soon as I figured out a

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Speaker 3: few chords, I was like, okay, good, I've got this

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Speaker 3: figured out.

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Speaker 1: Mm hmmm. Do you remember the first time you got

347
00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:10,600
Speaker 1: up and did it?

348
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Speaker 2: Man?

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00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:16,760
Speaker 3: I think, yeah, I think so.

350
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Speaker 1: What was it like?

351
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Speaker 3: Oh gosh, just the most bizarre experience in the world. Well,

352
00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:29,160
Speaker 3: you know, you ever do something and you're think, what

353
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Speaker 3: are you doing? You fool?

354
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Speaker 1: Oh man, you were hearing your parents' voice at that point.

355
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Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, that exactly. That just echoing in my head,

356
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Speaker 3: and I think sometimes I still do. You know, in

357
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Speaker 3: the middle of a show, just playing torch song or something,

358
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Speaker 3: and you know, you hear this voice in the bocahet

359
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Speaker 3: what are you doing? What are you doing?

360
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Speaker 1: Are you your family now? Are they happier your success

361
00:19:57,000 --> 00:20:00,520
Speaker 1: and your selling records and people love your is Does

362
00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:01,720
Speaker 1: that made a difference to them?

363
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Speaker 3: Well? I think it has. It has in a way

364
00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:11,240
Speaker 3: that you know, perhaps they they understand that this is

365
00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:16,240
Speaker 3: something that you know, I'm passionate about, but this the

366
00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:18,480
Speaker 3: sort of the roots of this problem are so deep,

367
00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:23,040
Speaker 3: so ingrained in upbringing and in culture that yeah, I

368
00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:25,080
Speaker 3: think they still don't they still don't understand what it

369
00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:25,640
Speaker 3: is that I do.

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Speaker 1: Can we hear another song? Can we hear a good question?

371
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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Sure, More music and conversation with JS and Dora after

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Speaker 1: this break, we're back with more songs and conversation with

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Speaker 1: JS and Dora. You talked a lot about Kenya and

375
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Speaker 1: the limitations you felt there. Your first album is called

376
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Speaker 1: Tales of America, right, So first of all, why that title?

377
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Speaker 1: What what made you call that?

378
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Speaker 3: You know, when I was I was a kid and

379
00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:10,159
Speaker 3: I was discovering this music, you know, and I was

380
00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:16,760
Speaker 3: drawn in a way too to America and to the

381
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Speaker 3: West in general. And I think part of the reason why,

382
00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:23,560
Speaker 3: you know, I developed this attachment to these songs is

383
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Speaker 3: because it was just it was like a spaceship for me.

384
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Speaker 3: Just you know, I turned on these songs and they

385
00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:34,919
Speaker 3: took me to just a completely different universe, you know,

386
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Speaker 3: where people spoke a different language, everything was different, it

387
00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:40,800
Speaker 3: looked different, and it was just it was a spaceship

388
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Speaker 3: for me, and it was a magical thing. And you know,

389
00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:45,439
Speaker 3: when I was, when I was a kid and I

390
00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:54,679
Speaker 3: was writing little tales on a book, I imagined that, you know,

391
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Speaker 3: one day I might be in America and maybe I'll

392
00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:01,280
Speaker 3: make maybe I'll make a an album and I'm gonna

393
00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:04,040
Speaker 3: call it Tells of America. But then this is it's

394
00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:07,080
Speaker 3: just it was just a stupid thing. You think as

395
00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:09,080
Speaker 3: a child, the same the same way you think about

396
00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:13,800
Speaker 3: going to Mars or flying a plane or you know,

397
00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:17,600
Speaker 3: you know, just or you know, talking to an imaginary friend.

398
00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:20,840
Speaker 3: You know, as a boy, you dream. It's what you

399
00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:24,280
Speaker 3: do as a boy. You dream about traveling to to

400
00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:29,120
Speaker 3: the moon, and you drive imaginary airplanes around, and then

401
00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:31,439
Speaker 3: you think about making a record Tells of America.

402
00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:35,800
Speaker 1: You've now been in the States for how long it's

403
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:38,119
Speaker 1: come close to six years, now, six years? And you

404
00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:41,120
Speaker 1: had this dream as a kid. How how is it

405
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:44,399
Speaker 1: for you now here? What's it? What's it like past

406
00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:46,520
Speaker 1: the dream you had as a kid. What's the reality

407
00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:46,840
Speaker 1: for you?

408
00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:51,520
Speaker 3: It's I think that's part of what I'm sort of

409
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:58,439
Speaker 3: processing in this in this record Tells of America. You know,

410
00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:04,080
Speaker 3: I'm trying to what's that, what's that what's that area?

411
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:08,879
Speaker 3: What's that divide between the dream and the reality, Because

412
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:12,199
Speaker 3: perhaps I'm not I'm not a kid anymore, you know,

413
00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:19,479
Speaker 3: maybe i am, but I'm not that little child. In Kenyon.

414
00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:23,000
Speaker 3: Now I'm here now, and so that does something to you,

415
00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:26,200
Speaker 3: and trying to grapple with what that dream, the idea

416
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:30,280
Speaker 3: you have of America when you're somewhere different. Oh, it's America.

417
00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:33,480
Speaker 3: This is the American dream, this is this is how

418
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:37,720
Speaker 3: that goes America? Is this sudden? Is this particular place

419
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:41,800
Speaker 3: with this this particular ideals? Because you know, America has

420
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:45,479
Speaker 3: this sort of reputation all across the world. You know,

421
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:48,720
Speaker 3: it's you know, because I think of America as this

422
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:51,840
Speaker 3: place that's supposed to be, at least in our times now,

423
00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:55,840
Speaker 3: supposed to be sort of spearheading the mission of civilization

424
00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:59,040
Speaker 3: across the you know, the human species or something like that.

425
00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:01,399
Speaker 3: So all over the world people are talking about American

426
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:04,520
Speaker 3: and all that. And so that dream, that idea of

427
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:09,080
Speaker 3: America and what the reality of it is once you

428
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:12,240
Speaker 3: set foot in America and you see, oh, well, I

429
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:13,560
Speaker 3: guess the work lives ahead.

430
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Speaker 1: So if you could go back and tell your nine

431
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:20,840
Speaker 1: year old self that had that dream of America, what

432
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:23,840
Speaker 1: would you tell that What would you tell that boy?

433
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:24,400
Speaker 1: Right now?

434
00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:28,720
Speaker 3: So the world is a mysterious place. Keep your shoes

435
00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:31,800
Speaker 3: on and buy multiple hats.

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Speaker 1: You do have great hats. I have to say thank you.

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Speaker 1: A Broken Record is produced by Justin Richmond and Jason Gambrel,

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Speaker 1: with help from Mel LaBelle, Jacob Smith, Julia Barton, and

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Speaker 1: Jacob Weisberg. Special thanks to my co hosts Rick Rubin

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Speaker 1: and Malcolm Gladwell. Broken Record is produced by Pushkin Industries.

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Speaker 1: I'm Bruce Heaven