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Speaker 1: Body bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. My granny came from

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Speaker 1: a generation that was totally and completely depended upon those

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Speaker 1: things that they found themselves surrounded by and that were

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Speaker 1: naturally occurring in their isolated rural home. And it didn't

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Speaker 1: matter that that generation and the generations prior to them,

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Speaker 1: they had a way of making do. And one of

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Speaker 1: the things that my grandmother would swear by when it

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Speaker 1: came to any kind of body aches or headaches or

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Speaker 1: things like that was bark off of a will tree.

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Speaker 1: You know. She said that it had the same properties

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Speaker 1: as an aspirin. You know what. She's kind of right,

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Speaker 1: because the bark from the willow can knock down pain.

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Speaker 1: It certainly can. And in many cases, that's where the

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Speaker 1: origins of a lot of our compounds that we have

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Speaker 1: today come from. Those things that were discovered that it's

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Speaker 1: not that they have been discovered just in the past

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Speaker 1: fifty years. Some of these things go back years and years.

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Speaker 1: But today I'm going to discuss a drug that I

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Speaker 1: don't even know if I can frame it so that

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Speaker 1: you understand, this drug has its origins all the way

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Speaker 1: back in ancient Egypt. We're going to talk about that drug.

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Speaker 1: And we're going to talk about a physician who is

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Speaker 1: now accused stands accused of murdering his wife. I'm Jesseph

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Speaker 1: Scott Morgan, and this is body Bags. Dave, you got

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Speaker 1: a willow tree out of here yard?

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Speaker 2: No, I was afraid you were going to ask, because

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Speaker 2: I'm sitting here trying to find pictures of willow trees.

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Speaker 1: You know, So you're not going out and not on

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Speaker 1: the trunk? Are you no pounding headache.

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Speaker 2: Whenever you start going down this path? Joe, I remember

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Speaker 2: the same thing that older relatives would say. You know

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Speaker 2: that no matter what kind of medicine you could buy

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Speaker 2: in the store, there's a natural thing growing out in

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Speaker 2: the woods that would be better. I don't disagree with that,

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Speaker 2: It's just I'm not out in the woods that often,

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Speaker 2: and whenever I do eat something like that, they call

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Speaker 2: it poke, salad and trick man. You know it's not

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Speaker 2: It's not pokes. That's a weed. It is weed with

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Speaker 2: bacon grease. That is not any kind of salad. Well,

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Speaker 2: you know that's a seriously Southern thing, isn't it.

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Speaker 1: It is very southern.

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Speaker 2: You pour bacon grease on it. You can call it whatever.

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Speaker 1: You want, You can call it anything you want, even

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Speaker 1: a parfeit. But yeah, and so a lot of our

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Speaker 1: medicines have their origins going back thousands of years. In

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Speaker 1: today's case came across my desk, and I was kind

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Speaker 1: of fascinated by this because I got to tell you

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Speaker 1: one of the things that's always terrified me when it

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Speaker 1: comes to I guess it's part of my own crazy makeup,

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Speaker 1: my own crazy mind. I've always thought, who could potentially

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Speaker 1: make the best assassin. And you know, people think about

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Speaker 1: powerful special operations, guys that are trained to climb up

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Speaker 1: on buildings and take long distance shots or be handy

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Speaker 1: with an edged weapon, and yeah, those people are absolutely

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Speaker 1: positively terrifying. However, imagine if you had the intellectual ability,

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Speaker 1: professional prowess to administer a drug to someone that had

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Speaker 1: no idea whatsoever what you were about. They could kill

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Speaker 1: you and potentially get away with it, and there would

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Speaker 1: be very little evidence that you were ever even there,

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Speaker 1: and suddenly your life is at an end. And I

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Speaker 1: think today's case, for me, it's smacks of this.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting because a lot of times we have

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Speaker 2: a story like we do today, where we know what happened.

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Speaker 2: But if somebody actually did that and got away with it,

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Speaker 2: we wouldn't know it because the whole point of them

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Speaker 2: doing the killing was something that was untraceable, was so

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Speaker 2: they wouldn't be caught.

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Speaker 1: And so everybody relaxed. This person is not currently on

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Speaker 1: the street, so.

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Speaker 2: No, thankfully not. You know, you look at people that

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Speaker 2: are in their thirties, and that's what we have here.

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Speaker 2: We've got a young couple. They're married. In particular Betty Bowman,

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Speaker 2: just to give you an idea. Betty Bowman born and

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Speaker 2: raised in Wichitak, Kansas. She is the person that everybody

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Speaker 2: wants to be as a friend. That's how everybody talked

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Speaker 2: about her. She was exceptionally thoughtful and she also was

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Speaker 2: a go get her. Graduated from the University of Kansas

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Speaker 2: School of Pharmacy with a pharmaceutical doctorate, completed her residency,

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Speaker 2: worked at the Mayo Clinic for a while. She and

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Speaker 2: her husband, Connor Bowman, got married in May of twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty one. They lived in Rochester, Minnesota, where Betty worked

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Speaker 2: as a hospital pharmacist while Connor went through his internal

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Speaker 2: medicine residency. We're dealing with two highly educated people.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and let me stop you right there, because over

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Speaker 1: a number of years, I've worked with a lot of

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Speaker 1: pathology residents. I've had people that have passed through Mayo,

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Speaker 1: and it's it's kind of the gold standard when you

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Speaker 1: think about you've got some kind of incurable disease or

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Speaker 1: something that look, man, you know, I'm at the end

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Speaker 1: of my rope and I've tied a knot in it.

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Speaker 1: I've got to get somewhere where somebody can offer me

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Speaker 1: some treatment. For a long long time, Mayo has been

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Speaker 1: that destination. So by virtue of that, you would think

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Speaker 1: that if you want to go for obviously some of

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Speaker 1: the best training that you could possibly get as a

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Speaker 1: physician or as a pharmacist, this will be your target

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Speaker 1: location if if you have the academic qualifications to be

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Speaker 1: accepted into this environment. And again that's another you know,

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Speaker 1: that's kind of this other thing that you have to

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Speaker 1: jump over. It's like, yeah, I finished medical school, so

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Speaker 1: let me go to a residency at the Mayo Clinic.

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Speaker 1: That's not the way it works. You have to apply,

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Speaker 1: and you're applying with hundreds, maybe thousands of other people

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Speaker 1: that also have the same dream. So the fact that

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Speaker 1: that Connor Bowman wound up there. It gives you some

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Speaker 1: insight into his background because they're not just going to

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Speaker 1: take anybody that graduates from medical school.

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Speaker 2: One thing to add about Betty Bowman thirty two years old.

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Speaker 2: Betty Bowman found a way to travel. She traveled the world.

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Speaker 2: She wanted to go to the Hawaii's she went, wanted

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Speaker 2: to go to the Caribbean. She went Hawaii, Iceland, doesn't matter.

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Speaker 2: She's going everywhere. Grand Canyon, she saw those things. She

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Speaker 2: really was living her best life now. Connor, they did

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Speaker 2: have a problem in their marriage. Okay, they've been married

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Speaker 2: a few years. The problem was money and that it

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Speaker 2: was so bad because Connor had such massive debt from

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Speaker 2: college that they kept their money separate and they were

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Speaker 2: pretty open about it in talking with friends, and when

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Speaker 2: it wasn't spiteful, it was just Betty was smart, Like,

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Speaker 2: dude's been irresponsible. He's got five hundred thousand dollars in debt.

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Speaker 2: You know, I'm not going to sign on to that.

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Speaker 2: Connor Bowman actually told somebody that there was a four

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Speaker 2: and fifty thousand dollars five hundred thousand dollars life insurance

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Speaker 2: policy on his wife, which immediately when your wife dies,

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Speaker 2: that's the first thing they're looking at. Betty Bowman was

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Speaker 2: in good health. She and Connor Bowmen were talking about divorce.

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Speaker 2: It was something coming and they were lightly seeing other people.

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Speaker 2: They were living together as man and wife still, but

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Speaker 2: it was really loose. At this point in time. Betty

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Speaker 2: is texting with a friend, a male friend, about she

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Speaker 2: had a couple of days coming off coming up, and

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Speaker 2: she said, you know, we'll hang out together and they

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Speaker 2: were both excited. That was on the fifteenth of August

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Speaker 2: and she's at home with Connor, having a couple of drinks,

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Speaker 2: watching movies, and during the course of the night, she

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Speaker 2: started not feeling well. And the next day she thought

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Speaker 2: it was like food poisoning. She was that kind of

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Speaker 2: sick and you're dealing with medical people here, so that

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Speaker 2: she goes to the hospital. They take her to the

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Speaker 2: Mayo Clinic Saint Mary Hospital on August sixteenth, and she's

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Speaker 2: admitted with kind of food poisoning diagnosis and that's what

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Speaker 2: they started treating her for. But she's in good health.

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Speaker 2: She shows up with, you know again, painful stomach aches

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Speaker 2: and all that. They treat her for. Gastro intestinal distress

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Speaker 2: and dehydration. After treatment, nothing gets better and she dies

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Speaker 2: after four days. A woman in good health. That doesn't happen.

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Speaker 1: No, no, it doesn't. And actually, when you take a

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Speaker 1: look at her, the pictures of her depict her as

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Speaker 1: very vibrant, alive. She doesn't look like she's in poor health.

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Speaker 1: She doesn't look like someone that would just suddenly crash.

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Speaker 1: So everyone understands. You know, they actually lived just outside

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Speaker 1: of Rochester and it was, you know, so much to

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Speaker 1: do up in Minnesota, probably one of the most beautiful

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Speaker 1: states in the United States, with all the lakes and

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Speaker 1: the opportunities that you have to get out and enjoy

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Speaker 1: that environment, canoeing and kayaking, and they were very active,

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Speaker 1: or had been at one point time. But as you said,

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Speaker 1: you know, they're kind of on the downhill slope. And

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Speaker 1: it is fascinating. Both these individuals are very young, and

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Speaker 1: they've come through a very stressful period of time in

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Speaker 1: their life. I think that if anything can take years

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Speaker 1: off of your life, it's going to be medical school

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Speaker 1: and any kind of graduate level study. Because the world,

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Speaker 1: the environment is so intense and it's interesting. You have

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Speaker 1: there any number of cases in my past where I've

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Speaker 1: had friends that were going through medical school and they

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Speaker 1: were married, they got out, did their residency, and almost

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Speaker 1: immediately they got a divorce. And it's tragic, but it

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Speaker 1: happens that way. It's almost like they've entered into a

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Speaker 1: new phase of life. But in this case. In this case,

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Speaker 1: you've got a husband who's decided, for whatever reason, that

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Speaker 1: he doesn't want to go on move forward with his wife,

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Speaker 1: and at the end of the day he apparently attempts

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Speaker 1: to murder her. There are certain drugs that are out

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Speaker 1: there that are rooted deep in our past, and there's

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Speaker 1: one in particular that comes to mind in this particular case,

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Speaker 1: and it's called culture scene. And let me give you

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Speaker 1: a little background. Culture Scene. They believe, they being the historians,

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Speaker 1: believe that culture Scene was actually written about during I

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Speaker 1: can't remember which dynasty, but it predates christ by almost

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Speaker 1: a thousand years wow. And it was a naturally occurring

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Speaker 1: substance that was found actually in a flowering plant, and

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Speaker 1: it was used specifically for its anti inflammatory properties that

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Speaker 1: if you had, you know, a swollen joint or knee

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Speaker 1: pain and these sorts of things, neck pain, I guess,

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Speaker 1: anything muscular, skeletal, it would be applied. Culture scene itself

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Speaker 1: is an oral medication that is actually given to individuals

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Speaker 1: now that suffer from gout. And if you've never been

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Speaker 1: around someone with gout, it's very painful. It comes and

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Speaker 1: goes and authors and oh well, I'm preaching the choir.

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Speaker 1: You know how painful it is. And culture scene has

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Speaker 1: been one of those things that has been on the

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Speaker 1: roster of drugs that physicians have used for years and years.

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Speaker 1: And in an interesting little twist to this case, as

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Speaker 1: we had mentioned our young victim in this particular case,

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Speaker 1: she was a pharmacist and the first person to actually

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Speaker 1: go into great depth and detail about the plant that

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Speaker 1: culture scene derives from originally was actually a Greek pharmacist.

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Speaker 1: He was also a physician, but he was a pharmacist

200
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Speaker 1: and a herbalist, and his name was DIA's Cordides, and

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Speaker 1: so he made this list of drugs that he could

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Speaker 1: apply to give people relief. And guess who was given

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Speaker 1: relief to He was a camp follower for the Roman Army,

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Speaker 1: so he was Wow, he's a Greek guy that was

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Speaker 1: actually studying nature as he went along, and you can

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Speaker 1: imagine all of the apes and the pains that are

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Speaker 1: associated with a legion moving over the countryside and fighting

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Speaker 1: and all those sorts of things. And this drug was

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Speaker 1: actually identified all the way back then. Wow, but it

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Speaker 1: still has utility today. And the thing about it is

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Speaker 1: is that apparently Connor Bowman, it would seem at least

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Speaker 1: he had knowledge of this drug.

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Speaker 2: Dave Connor Bowman worked with the University of Kansas answering

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Speaker 2: calls on their twenty four hour poison control hotline. On

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Speaker 2: August fifth, sixth and tenth, He's answering calls regarding poisonings

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Speaker 2: six days before his wife shows up at the hospital.

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Speaker 2: The university gave him a laptop to use, you know,

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Speaker 2: for research and what you That laptop and other electronic

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Speaker 2: devices all had a VP and authentication process so that

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Speaker 2: only he Connor Bowman would be able to use the devices.

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Speaker 2: So when the university found out that the laptop had

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Speaker 2: been seized as part of an investigation, they reached out

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Speaker 2: to investigators to help them locate all of the Internet

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Speaker 2: searches conducted by Connor Bowmen on their device and network.

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Speaker 2: According to the criminal complaint file by Detective Kendrick, he

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Speaker 2: was told that Connor Bowman was researching Cultisine. They even

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Speaker 2: went further and looked into phone calls that had come

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Speaker 2: into the twenty four hour Poison Control hotline to see

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Speaker 2: if anybody had called in about Culture Scene. They found

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Speaker 2: out that not only Bowman never received a call about

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Speaker 2: Culta Scene, but none of the employees entering calls on

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Speaker 2: the twenty four hour Poison Control hotline received any calls

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Speaker 2: about Culture Scene, So there was no reason for him

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Speaker 2: to actually be looking up that drug at that time.

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Speaker 1: And here's the thing about it. If you understand the

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Speaker 1: pharmacology of this drug, it's easy and it's readily apparent

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Speaker 1: from Jump Street where they caution physicians about how lethal

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Speaker 1: this substance is when it is applied in large doses.

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Speaker 1: And guess what, dave The symptomology that this poor young

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Speaker 1: woman presented with, and it would have absolutely have been

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Speaker 1: excruciating fits falls right in line with what you're seeing

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Speaker 1: with the drug. The drug presentation if you've been exposed

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Speaker 1: to culture seen and so you're talking about this this

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Speaker 1: acute abnominal pain you're talking about where you'll have a

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Speaker 1: severe diarrhea. There's vomiting that comes along with it, and

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Speaker 1: it would when if you're a physician and you're having

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Speaker 1: to make this diagnosis. Let's just say when she rolls

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Speaker 1: into the hospital at that moment time, one of the

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Speaker 1: first things you're going to think, well, am I dealing

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Speaker 1: with the case of, like, you know, I don't know, gastroinritis,

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Speaker 1: because that's that's kind of a common common complaint. And

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Speaker 1: then if you after you rule that out, because you're

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Speaker 1: going to go and say, you're going to do cultures,

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Speaker 1: blood cultures, You're going to check and see, for instance,

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Speaker 1: what her white count is, if there's any kind of inflammation,

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Speaker 1: and if you're absent in inflammation, but yet she's still

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Speaker 1: presenting with this symptomology, then the physician has to be thinking, well,

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Speaker 1: what in the world could be presenting like this in

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Speaker 1: this woman who's the picture of health. Why is she

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Speaker 1: doubled over in excruciating pain? And as it turns out,

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Speaker 1: she's she's been dosed with this, as we would later

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Speaker 1: find out.

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Speaker 2: And very quickly about the symptoms, Okay, you said, these

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Speaker 2: are common symptoms for somebody that maybe has been poisoning.

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Speaker 2: They would have being sick, throwing up, diarrhea, the whole nine.

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Speaker 2: Dehydration comes with it, but they're treating her for all

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Speaker 2: that and it's not getting better. Actually she's getting worse.

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Speaker 2: Is that because of the effects of the culture that

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Speaker 2: it not only are they not treating her for what

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Speaker 2: has happened to her in poison because now you know

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Speaker 2: Connor Bowmen poisoned his wife, but they ended up finding

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Speaker 2: out she had They did a surgery to remove part

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Speaker 2: of her colon because they said it contained necrotic tissue.

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Speaker 1: What is that, Well, it means that that part of

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Speaker 1: the bowel when you hear you hear the term necrotic,

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Speaker 1: it's rooted in necro okay in necro from from from

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Speaker 1: the Greek actually translates into death or the dead. That's

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Speaker 1: where we get terms like necrophilia or necrophile, necromancing, all

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Speaker 1: of these terms that lead directly back to to death.

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Speaker 1: And so when you have a necrotic loop of bowel,

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Speaker 1: what that means is that for some reason and blood

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Speaker 1: flow to that area of the bowel has been stemmed.

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Speaker 1: Something has prevented it from getting a sufficient blood supply.

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Speaker 1: And guess what happens That bit of bowel dies and

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Speaker 1: when it dies, sept semia will set in and the

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Speaker 1: individual will then develop things like fevers, they can convulse,

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Speaker 1: you'll have all of these other things. So they have

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Speaker 1: no choice but to go in and snip out that

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Speaker 1: bit of bowel and then tie it back together, to

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Speaker 1: loop those those bits, those ends back together so that

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Speaker 1: she'll have a functioning bowel. And it's it's a horrible position.

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Speaker 1: And when you think about it, you know, I've often

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Speaker 1: used the term of throwing a brick through a stained

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Speaker 1: glass window. You've got this person that is the picture

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Speaker 1: of help, that has no prior history whatsoever, nothing like this,

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Speaker 1: and suddenly she's crashing like this. It's a horrible set

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Speaker 1: of circumstances.

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Speaker 2: Well that's when I looked at it, and it was

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Speaker 2: a report, and looking at the police reports and everything else,

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Speaker 2: that her condition, you know, did take a turn for

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Speaker 2: the worst. She started having heart problems, fluid build up

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Speaker 2: in her lungs, and then men removal a part of

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Speaker 2: the colon. At this point though, the doctors are standing

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Speaker 2: around looking at her, they're testing for everything, but they're

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Speaker 2: not having a whole lot of time and no luck.

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Speaker 2: We're talking about four days Joe, from the time she

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Speaker 2: shows up, actually five days after. She's texting back and

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Speaker 2: forth with a friend and having drinks on the couch

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Speaker 2: for their husband. Five days later she's dead. Yeah, to

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Speaker 2: go that quick at thirty two, any good health doesn't

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Speaker 2: make sense.

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Speaker 1: No, it doesn't. And you know eventually an individual that

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Speaker 1: has been administered or has been administered a large dosage

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Speaker 1: of the drug would eventually slip into a coma and

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Speaker 1: so on. You once you try to pull them back

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Speaker 1: from the edge relative to this, you're going down downhill

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Speaker 1: very very quickly, and there's no putting the brakes on,

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Speaker 1: particularly in this case. And that's what they found out

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Speaker 1: as they moved on through. But the big reveal in

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Speaker 1: this case came. It did. It did come with her

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Speaker 1: clinical course and her clinical diagnosis. But the big reveal

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Speaker 1: came when it was time to make a decision about

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Speaker 1: what to do with the show woman. Connor has put

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Speaker 1: forth this idea, and remember he's a physician. He has

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Speaker 1: apparently planted a seed within the brain of the attendings

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Speaker 1: and probably anybody that would have anything to do with

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Speaker 1: his wife's treatment. He has told people at the hospital

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Speaker 1: and actually in an obituary that he put forth a

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Speaker 1: specific diagnosis for his wife. It's hemophagasitic lymphocytosis otherwise known

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Speaker 1: as HLH, and it is a condition that is most

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Speaker 1: commonly associated with children and teens. It's not something that

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Speaker 1: you would see, for instance, in an older in an

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Speaker 1: older population, if you did it would it would be unusual,

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Speaker 1: to say the very least. And it impacts the white

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Speaker 1: blood cells relative to how they are produced, how they function.

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Speaker 1: And you're going to have presentations of this in if

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Speaker 1: you have this condition HLH, you're going to experience probably

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Speaker 1: acute pain in like the spleen and the liver. It's

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Speaker 1: going to cause the liver to enlarge. And what are

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Speaker 1: we talking about here, Dave, with how she's presenting, Well,

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Speaker 1: she's presenting with this, you know, acute pain, abdominal pain.

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Speaker 1: It's nonspecific, but this is a very specific diagnosis. And

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Speaker 1: as it turns out, she's never suffered from this condition.

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Speaker 1: But yet this is something he's kind of pulled out

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Speaker 1: of the air and pushed forward as the narrative. How

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Speaker 1: bold is that? And that's one of the things I'm saying,

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Speaker 1: you know, when I mentioned earlier that you know, if

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Speaker 1: I were to try to come up with an ideal assassin,

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Speaker 1: someone that could potentially get away with a homicide, which

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Speaker 1: no one has gotten away with anything at this point.

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Speaker 1: You know, we don't have a conviction here and a

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Speaker 1: trial hasn't taken place. But just from just from a

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Speaker 1: clinical perspective, you know, hypothetical here when you're thinking about

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Speaker 1: how much control a physician and one that's not in

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Speaker 1: the midst of the actual treatment, one that is merely

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Speaker 1: there whispering into the ears of those that are doing

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Speaker 1: the treating. How easy would it be for someone to

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Speaker 1: get away with something like this.

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Speaker 2: Well, dealing with all these medical people and you're one

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Speaker 2: of them, it's not like it's an outsider. This is

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Speaker 2: somebody that is also in the doctor family, and he

362
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Speaker 2: actually is suggesting she has ahl ah. Nobody's questioning him

363
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Speaker 2: on it. He's just you know, he says it very

364
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Speaker 2: matter of factly. But by the way, they did test

365
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Speaker 2: for that, and she did not test positive. Came out

366
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Speaker 2: inconclusive for hl ah. But there was something else that

367
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Speaker 2: went on in this. Again, you've got a very fast

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Speaker 2: moving illness that you know from death happens in four

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Speaker 2: days on a healthy woman. They treated her for everything

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Speaker 2: that they could think of. It just got worse and

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Speaker 2: now she's dead. Well, the day after when they're getting

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Speaker 2: ready to do the autopsy, and Connor Bowman says, no,

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Speaker 2: my wife does not want to have an automic. She

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Speaker 2: just want to be a cadaver.

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Speaker 1: I got to address this, Okay, Listen, you got two

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Speaker 1: choices as to what you want to call yourself after

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Speaker 1: you're dead, not that you're going to have any control over.

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Speaker 1: You're either going to be a corpse or a cadaver.

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Speaker 1: And the fact that he would he would actually say

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Speaker 1: I don't want my wife to be a cadaver. Maybe

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Speaker 1: I think that maybe the implication is is that he's

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Speaker 1: trying to say I don't want my wife. My wife

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Speaker 1: did not want to be the subject of any further

384
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Speaker 1: medical studies in her post mortem state, which is Listen.

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Speaker 1: I've had tons of people protest over the course of

386
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Speaker 1: my career a decision to do an autopsy. It just

387
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:02,040
Speaker 1: it happens, and look, I understand it, you know, And

388
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Speaker 1: they'll they'll come at you with all kinds of gruesome

389
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Speaker 1: things that they'll say about why they don't want it

390
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Speaker 1: to occur. I've had people that come up with religious reasons.

391
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Speaker 1: I've had other people just saying you can't do that,

392
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Speaker 1: and of course, by law dependent upon the jurisdiction are

393
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Speaker 1: and you can but yet to say to say that

394
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Speaker 1: she did not want and this is a quote, she

395
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Speaker 1: did not want to be a cadaver. It's certainly a

396
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Speaker 1: strange thing for someone to say it's it's it's uh.

397
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Speaker 1: It would it would give me pause if I was

398
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Speaker 1: the medical legal authority. However, day there's something a bit more,

399
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Speaker 1: even more sinister than this. He is saying that not

400
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Speaker 1: only does he not want an autopsy for his wife

401
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:56,320
Speaker 1: to be a cadaver, he doesn't he wants to expedite

402
00:25:56,920 --> 00:26:00,960
Speaker 1: a cremation. And let me give you a little bit

403
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Speaker 1: of background about how corners and medical examiners look at cremations.

404
00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:08,920
Speaker 1: And it does vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. However, both

405
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Speaker 1: jurisdictions that I worked in, if we knew that there

406
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:15,800
Speaker 1: was going to be a cremation, and even if it

407
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Speaker 1: was a natural death, we had a policy, particularly my

408
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:24,080
Speaker 1: last office, that we would hop in our vehicle and

409
00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:28,680
Speaker 1: we would drive directly to the crematory and we would

410
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Speaker 1: examine the body. Before the body ever went into the crematory.

411
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Speaker 1: We would examine that body. We would take detailed photographs.

412
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Speaker 1: We would strip the body down so that there's no clothing.

413
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Speaker 1: We would want to look over every inch of the

414
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Speaker 1: body to see if there's anything external presenting. And in

415
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:50,119
Speaker 1: addition to that, always had a set of syringes with me.

416
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Speaker 1: We would draw blood. We draw blood, we draw urine,

417
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:57,679
Speaker 1: we draw victorious fluid out of the eyes, just so

418
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Speaker 1: that we had it. And these were even in cases

419
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,280
Speaker 1: where we knew that these were natural deaths. If we

420
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Speaker 1: knew that there was going to be a cremation and

421
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 1: it was going to be local, we would go there

422
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Speaker 1: and examine the body. Why well, unlike unlike a burial

423
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Speaker 1: where you can have the individual exricated from the ground

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Speaker 1: after they've been in the ground for a while, Once

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00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:22,880
Speaker 1: you're cremated, you're cremated. That's forever and ever. Amen, there's

426
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 1: no going back, there's no do overs. And so when

427
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:29,919
Speaker 1: a medical examiner starts hearing someone say I want I

428
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 1: want a cremation done immediately. I want this to happen immediately,

429
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:37,520
Speaker 1: then that's going to set off all kinds of bells

430
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:39,320
Speaker 1: and whistles for them. They're going to put on a

431
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:41,639
Speaker 1: full court press. Not only are they going to do

432
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:43,760
Speaker 1: an autopsy. They're going to do probably one of the

433
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:48,520
Speaker 1: most thorough autopsies that you can possibly imagine. And when

434
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:51,560
Speaker 1: it comes to drug screens, they're going to look for everything, Dave.

435
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 2: And that actually became a question for Connor Bowman. You know, Joe,

436
00:27:55,640 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 2: you mentioned the expediting of a of a cremation. Actually

437
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 2: it would actually cause a more in depth inspection. I

438
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:07,440
Speaker 2: wonder about that. Have you ever been in that situation

439
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 2: where somebody that you know, in a case you were

440
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:11,680
Speaker 2: involved in, where somebody was pushing to have that cremation

441
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:12,399
Speaker 2: done past.

442
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:16,800
Speaker 1: Yes, I was, and I was not the I was

443
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:20,200
Speaker 1: not the investigator on that particular case. I was kind

444
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 1: of an adjunct to it. One of my colleagues that

445
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:24,760
Speaker 1: had and it turned out to be a homicide. Wow,

446
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:27,800
Speaker 1: And it was a violent homicide. It was a person

447
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:33,640
Speaker 1: that had been suffocated and so but made to look

448
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:37,880
Speaker 1: as though that it was a natural death. Person had

449
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 1: a lot of disease proceeds that were going on and

450
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:43,120
Speaker 1: that sort of thing. And something happened with my colleague

451
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:46,240
Speaker 1: that triggered this in his brain. And I still think

452
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 1: back to that day when he's telling us about story.

453
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 1: And course I went into the more work to see

454
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:56,280
Speaker 1: the body at that time, and you could actually pick

455
00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 1: up very faintly on marks that were adjacent to the

456
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:06,000
Speaker 1: face that they looked they looked kind of subtle. But

457
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 1: then when you kind of retracted the I lis and

458
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:12,720
Speaker 1: you were able to appreciate this little petikia in there,

459
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:15,479
Speaker 1: you knew that something something bad had gone on.

460
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 2: A couple of things. As we can move forward here,

461
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 2: Connor Bowman pushes for the expedited cremation. Doesn't work. Now

462
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:25,600
Speaker 2: the flags are up. They called the detective, Hey, I

463
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:29,560
Speaker 2: got a suspicious death, and that immediately started the tongues

464
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 2: wagging again. Four days we're only talking four days from

465
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 2: the time she shows up at the hospital with what

466
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 2: appears to be food poisoning till she's dead. On the

467
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 2: fifth day, her husband is demanding she get cremated in

468
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:44,880
Speaker 2: a hurry. All of a sudden, detectives are called, and

469
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 2: then other people who know both of the Bowmen are

470
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 2: calling detectives and they're sharing different stories about well after

471
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:56,240
Speaker 2: she died, Connor Bowman made a comment to a friend, well,

472
00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:58,960
Speaker 2: at least he got a five hundred thousand dollars life

473
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:02,959
Speaker 2: insurance policy. He had a whole lot of debt and

474
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:05,880
Speaker 2: it was a source of a problem. Friends knew they

475
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:10,160
Speaker 2: were discussing divorce. Friends knew this was an overdone thing,

476
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 2: and there was a lot of suspicion because again Connor Bowman,

477
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 2: he was looking up a number of things, and it

478
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:19,640
Speaker 2: wasn't just culture seene. He was looking up how much

479
00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:22,920
Speaker 2: based on my wife's weight, and how much would I

480
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:25,360
Speaker 2: have to give her to make it lethal? What's a

481
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:30,600
Speaker 2: lethal dosage? So we've got a doctor who is trained

482
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 2: at dealing with a poison hot line, we have a

483
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:35,480
Speaker 2: wife that he tried to get cremated in a hurry.

484
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:39,960
Speaker 2: Doctors started having a lot of things to giving a

485
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 2: lot of information to detectives. And it's transpired in the

486
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:45,520
Speaker 2: last couple of months. And when they went back to

487
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 2: the night the night before she goes to the hospital

488
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 2: and she's having drinks with her husband at home. Betty

489
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:54,960
Speaker 2: Bowmen told her friend who they were, asking, what do

490
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:57,800
Speaker 2: you think made you sick? And she said there was

491
00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:00,720
Speaker 2: the last drink she had the night before was mixed

492
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:04,840
Speaker 2: up in as smoothie and she got sick after that.

493
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 1: And what would you do in order to mask the

494
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:12,920
Speaker 1: taste of something when you think about that, you know, smoothie.

495
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 1: The texture of it and also the taste of it

496
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 1: is so complex that if there was anything that might

497
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:25,960
Speaker 1: be there that would have an unpleasant taste to it,

498
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:29,600
Speaker 1: it very well could have been disguised that way. But

499
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 1: you know, immediately following this, you know, she begins to

500
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 1: present with this gastrointestinal problems, and suddenly she begins to

501
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:41,160
Speaker 1: go downhill, and no matter what the physicians were doing

502
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:45,960
Speaker 1: at the hospital, they couldn't stem what was coming down

503
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:49,720
Speaker 1: the tracks to Betty Bowman, and of course it wound

504
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:57,640
Speaker 1: up in her death. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this

505
00:31:58,200 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 1: is body Backs