WEBVTT - Why It's So Tough To Be Kind To Yourself 0:00:14.996 --> 0:00:33.436 Pushkin. Hey everyone, I'm wishing you a happy and peaceful 0:00:33.476 --> 0:00:36.796 Thanksgiving week. It's my favorite holiday of the year, and 0:00:36.876 --> 0:00:39.156 I like taking a moment to reflect on all that 0:00:39.196 --> 0:00:42.516 I'm grateful for. So many of the conversations I've had 0:00:42.516 --> 0:00:45.556 on the show have changed me for the better. One 0:00:45.596 --> 0:00:49.076 of these was with psychologist Kristin Neff, who's an expert 0:00:49.116 --> 0:00:52.396 on the science of self compassion. I had a lot 0:00:52.396 --> 0:00:56.636 of misconceptions about self compassion going into this interview, like 0:00:56.676 --> 0:00:59.276 that it's self indulgent, or it's a way of letting 0:00:59.316 --> 0:01:01.556 ourselves off the hook for stuff we should really be 0:01:01.636 --> 0:01:05.956 taking accountability for. As you'll hear, I shared this skepticism 0:01:05.956 --> 0:01:09.516 with Kristin, and she told me about some fascinating research 0:01:09.596 --> 0:01:13.156 that challenged many of my assumptions. We'll be back next 0:01:13.196 --> 0:01:15.836 week with a new episode, but until then, I hope 0:01:15.836 --> 0:01:18.396 you enjoyed this conversation and that it helps you be 0:01:18.436 --> 0:01:21.756 a bit kinder to yourself. And as always, I'd love 0:01:21.796 --> 0:01:24.996 to hear your thoughts on the conversation. I'm on Instagram 0:01:24.996 --> 0:01:26.276 at doctor Maya Schunker. 0:01:38.116 --> 0:01:41.396 Self compassion in the simplest form is just treating yourself 0:01:41.436 --> 0:01:45.316 with the same warmth, kindness, care concern that you would 0:01:45.356 --> 0:01:48.156 naturally show to a friend you cared about, So it's 0:01:48.196 --> 0:01:51.396 really nothing unusual. It's just that we're much more used 0:01:51.396 --> 0:01:55.276 to giving compassion to friends than we are to ourselves. 0:01:56.156 --> 0:01:59.596 Psychologist Kristin Neff is a pioneer in the study of 0:01:59.636 --> 0:02:03.476 self compassion, and she says the first step towards cultivating 0:02:03.476 --> 0:02:06.316 it is to ask ourselves this one question. 0:02:06.956 --> 0:02:10.396 The quintessential self compassion Q question is what do I 0:02:10.476 --> 0:02:13.596 need right now? What do I need to learn? What 0:02:13.676 --> 0:02:16.036 do I need to be there for myself right now? 0:02:16.076 --> 0:02:18.396 What do I need? Do I need to give some help? 0:02:18.476 --> 0:02:20.956 Do I need a bath? Wisdom is what tells you 0:02:21.036 --> 0:02:24.796 the answer, but being willing to ask the question is key, 0:02:24.916 --> 0:02:27.716 because what you're saying is my needs count I'm worthy 0:02:27.716 --> 0:02:29.156 of care and support. 0:02:31.036 --> 0:02:34.756 On today's episode, we learn about the science of self compassion, 0:02:35.156 --> 0:02:38.476 including strategies you can use to be kinder to yourself. 0:02:40.596 --> 0:02:43.636 I'm maya Shunker and this is a slight change of plans, 0:02:43.996 --> 0:02:46.316 a show about who we are and who we become 0:02:46.596 --> 0:02:59.796 in the face of a big change. Kristin Neff has 0:02:59.796 --> 0:03:04.076 written several books, including Self Compassion, The Proven Power of 0:03:04.076 --> 0:03:07.956 Being Kind to Yourself, She also runs workshops that teach 0:03:07.996 --> 0:03:10.716 people self compassion skills that they can use in their 0:03:10.796 --> 0:03:14.636 daily lives. Even though it seems like these skills should 0:03:14.636 --> 0:03:17.756 come to us pretty naturally, many of us struggle with 0:03:17.836 --> 0:03:21.036 being kind to ourselves. We often find it easier to 0:03:21.076 --> 0:03:24.756 be kind towards others. So I started our conversation by 0:03:24.796 --> 0:03:28.236 asking Kristen why, Well, there's a lot. 0:03:28.076 --> 0:03:30.556 Of reasons actually when we shouldn't beat ourselves up for 0:03:30.596 --> 0:03:34.476 beating ourselves up, because they are cultural and evolutionary reasons. 0:03:35.116 --> 0:03:38.076 So cultural reasons are that we aren't told it's good 0:03:38.116 --> 0:03:41.516 to be self compassionate. We're raised to be self sacrificing, 0:03:41.596 --> 0:03:44.156 and that we should almost be compassionate to others. And 0:03:44.156 --> 0:03:46.116 there's a lot of miss that get in the way 0:03:46.116 --> 0:03:48.356 of self compassion that we can talk about in a moment. 0:03:48.956 --> 0:03:53.716 But there's also an important evolutionary element. So the system 0:03:53.876 --> 0:03:57.556 that evolved to keep ourselves safe is a threat defense system, 0:03:57.676 --> 0:04:01.156 right fight or freeze. So when we feel threatened, we 0:04:01.516 --> 0:04:04.716 fight ourselves with criticism, hoping we'll get ourselves in shape 0:04:04.756 --> 0:04:07.276 and be safe, or we flee into a sense of 0:04:07.276 --> 0:04:11.476 shame and isolation and get stuck. On the other hand, 0:04:11.596 --> 0:04:13.636 we do have a safety system for others, which is 0:04:13.636 --> 0:04:17.076 called the care system, and that system evolved primarily for 0:04:17.236 --> 0:04:20.596 our offspring and for our group members. And so in 0:04:20.676 --> 0:04:23.356 order to keep our offspring safe, for our group safe, 0:04:23.796 --> 0:04:27.236 we give compassion and support and kindness to those people 0:04:27.236 --> 0:04:30.076 who care about who are suffering. So we have to 0:04:30.156 --> 0:04:32.636 kind of do a little hack. It's actually more natural 0:04:32.676 --> 0:04:35.956 to be self critical when we're threatened in some way 0:04:36.556 --> 0:04:38.436 than it is to be self compassionate. 0:04:38.716 --> 0:04:38.876 You know. 0:04:38.956 --> 0:04:41.556 You know, when your friend loses their job, you aren't 0:04:41.556 --> 0:04:44.116 personally threatened, so you go into care mode. When you 0:04:44.196 --> 0:04:46.756 lose your job, you're personally threatened, so you go into fight, 0:04:46.796 --> 0:04:49.316 flight or freeze mode. And so that's a pretty heavy 0:04:49.756 --> 0:04:52.796 brain difference that we've got to you know, work. Luckily, 0:04:52.796 --> 0:04:55.276 it can be done. But it's actually more natural to 0:04:55.276 --> 0:04:57.156 be compassionate to others than ourselves. 0:04:58.076 --> 0:05:00.396 To make sure I understand that you're saying that it's 0:05:00.436 --> 0:05:03.676 actually the feeling of threat that's ignited by our own 0:05:03.716 --> 0:05:06.756 pain and suffering that leads us to withhold compassion from 0:05:06.796 --> 0:05:09.236 ourselves because we think we need to act on that. Yes, 0:05:09.556 --> 0:05:11.196 we need to get this right, We need to solve 0:05:11.236 --> 0:05:11.956 this problem. 0:05:12.356 --> 0:05:15.156 Exactly, and so we're using the kind of our reptilian brain, 0:05:15.236 --> 0:05:18.036 the older brain to think of just immediately, either you know, 0:05:18.076 --> 0:05:21.556 we beat ourselves up. I'll criticize myself before other people do. 0:05:21.796 --> 0:05:24.076 Or again we just try to whip ourselves into shape 0:05:24.116 --> 0:05:27.116 with the most immediate way we know how, or again 0:05:27.156 --> 0:05:30.636 we go into shame mode, which is also a safety behavior, 0:05:31.316 --> 0:05:33.836 or rumination is also a safety behavior. Maybe if I 0:05:33.916 --> 0:05:37.036 just don't move or think about it five hundred times 0:05:37.036 --> 0:05:38.076 and problem will go away. 0:05:38.956 --> 0:05:41.316 I have no idea what you're talking about, Kristin. I've 0:05:41.356 --> 0:05:44.516 never experienced this. It's more like a thousand times. 0:05:44.996 --> 0:05:47.716 But you know, the care mode is also natural, right, 0:05:47.756 --> 0:05:50.396 as you know, even like young children can feel carrying 0:05:50.396 --> 0:05:53.796 toward others. It's a completely natural system. It's just more 0:05:53.836 --> 0:05:57.876 often triggered by others people we care about. So we 0:05:57.916 --> 0:06:00.556 do have to make a switch and start treating ourselves 0:06:00.716 --> 0:06:02.676 like we would treat someone else we cared about. 0:06:03.556 --> 0:06:05.756 Yeah, I mean, I love this framing because I think 0:06:05.796 --> 0:06:07.716 it shows Look, there are some things that come very 0:06:07.796 --> 0:06:10.476 naturally to us, and there are other things that require 0:06:10.476 --> 0:06:14.116 a lot of deliberate cognitive effort in order to inspire 0:06:14.156 --> 0:06:17.356 and cultivate within ourselves, and it seems like self compassion 0:06:17.596 --> 0:06:18.796 is one of those things. 0:06:19.516 --> 0:06:21.516 The effort needs to be made to remember to do 0:06:21.596 --> 0:06:23.916 it and also to give ourselves permission to do it, 0:06:24.316 --> 0:06:27.676 and the permission is very important, especially when our culture 0:06:27.716 --> 0:06:29.676 has told us that it's selfish to be kind to 0:06:29.716 --> 0:06:33.116 ourselves and that it's you know, will be lazy if 0:06:33.116 --> 0:06:36.556 we do, or will become self indulgent. So actually the 0:06:36.596 --> 0:06:39.716 act of being self compassionate is easeful. It actually is 0:06:39.756 --> 0:06:41.956 a lot easier, if you think about it, to be 0:06:42.036 --> 0:06:44.116 kind to yourself than all the pain and effort that 0:06:44.276 --> 0:06:48.036 comes with criticizing yourself and cutting yourself down. This actually 0:06:48.036 --> 0:06:51.316 makes things flow better, more naturally. But remembering to do 0:06:51.436 --> 0:06:53.516 so is the bit that takes a little bit of 0:06:53.516 --> 0:06:55.116 practice and permission. 0:06:55.356 --> 0:07:00.516 Okay, that's really helpful and very clarifying. I love that. Okay, 0:07:00.556 --> 0:07:03.396 So you know, Kristin, I will confess that when I 0:07:03.476 --> 0:07:07.036 first encountered this work years ago, I was a little skeptical. 0:07:07.436 --> 0:07:11.156 And to be clear, it's not because I don't need 0:07:11.196 --> 0:07:16.036 more self compassion. I've always been an intensely self critical person. 0:07:16.436 --> 0:07:19.116 It's more that I just have had specific concerns and 0:07:19.876 --> 0:07:23.716 I'm wondering if right now we can engage in a 0:07:23.796 --> 0:07:26.756 quick mythbusting session in case there are listeners out there 0:07:26.796 --> 0:07:29.796 who share some of the same skepticism I used to have. 0:07:29.836 --> 0:07:31.596 I want to bring them on this journey with me 0:07:31.956 --> 0:07:35.076 towards really embracing the research and really understanding the value. 0:07:35.676 --> 0:07:38.716 So one concern that I've had is that it seems 0:07:38.756 --> 0:07:42.796 like promoting self compassion can cause people to let themselves 0:07:42.796 --> 0:07:45.636 off the hook for their bad behaviors. And you know, 0:07:45.676 --> 0:07:48.396 I look around and I see a lot of people 0:07:48.436 --> 0:07:51.556 who are not taking accountability for their actions. Right, it 0:07:51.556 --> 0:07:54.516 seems like they could benefit from a bit more internal 0:07:54.596 --> 0:07:58.876 criticism and so and of course for myself, right, I've 0:07:58.876 --> 0:08:02.196 benefited from self criticism a lot. And so don't we 0:08:02.356 --> 0:08:05.116 need people to be more self critical so that they 0:08:05.116 --> 0:08:06.116 can be better to others? 0:08:07.276 --> 0:08:12.036 Yeah, So self compassion, this kind of unconditional acceptance and kindness, 0:08:12.396 --> 0:08:16.036 is toward our worthless people. As human beings. We need 0:08:16.076 --> 0:08:19.076 to accept ourselves, but we can't accept all our behavior, 0:08:19.196 --> 0:08:22.396 especially if it's harming self or others, Because if your 0:08:22.436 --> 0:08:25.876 behaviors cause harm to yourself or others is not compassionate. 0:08:26.556 --> 0:08:28.916 So what we do with self compassion is we accept 0:08:28.956 --> 0:08:32.916 ourselves as flawed human beings who've made a mistake, and 0:08:32.956 --> 0:08:36.316 that sense of safety. First of all, we don't blame 0:08:36.356 --> 0:08:39.876 others as much. Often, if we slam ourselves with shame 0:08:40.076 --> 0:08:43.396 for admitting we've done something wrong, our little brains are 0:08:43.396 --> 0:08:45.556 going to try as hard as they can to avoid 0:08:45.636 --> 0:08:48.436 taking responsibility and to blame someone else that they can. 0:08:48.596 --> 0:08:52.836 And by the way, research shows that self compassion lessons shame, 0:08:52.916 --> 0:08:55.436 which is a sense of I am bad, but not 0:08:55.516 --> 0:08:58.036 necessarily guilt, which is I did something bad. 0:08:58.716 --> 0:09:01.836 Yeah, And reading your scholarship, I found this distinction very 0:09:01.876 --> 0:09:05.596 helpful because you talk about the difference between guilt and shame, 0:09:06.036 --> 0:09:10.196 and you say, look, being critical of our behavior is healthy. 0:09:10.396 --> 0:09:13.476 It is good. It provides learning opportunities, It allows us 0:09:13.516 --> 0:09:15.916 to be better people, allows us to reflect on who 0:09:15.956 --> 0:09:18.236 we are and what we want from ourselves moving forward. 0:09:19.316 --> 0:09:23.796 But criticism aimed at ourselves, at our being as a whole, 0:09:24.276 --> 0:09:27.076 is not healthy because, as you said, and I've definitely 0:09:27.076 --> 0:09:29.196 fallen into this camp in the past, you don't want 0:09:29.236 --> 0:09:33.876 to internalize I made a mistake as I am a mistake, right, 0:09:33.956 --> 0:09:34.756 I am bad? 0:09:35.396 --> 0:09:38.076 Exactly When you do that, it actually shuts down your 0:09:38.116 --> 0:09:41.036 ability to learn from your mistakes because you're so consumed 0:09:41.076 --> 0:09:44.676 by the thoughts of inadequacy or shame, our sense of 0:09:44.756 --> 0:09:48.156 self kind of gets totally absorbed by the shame. It's 0:09:48.156 --> 0:09:51.276 like we disappear. There's no one home to be able 0:09:51.316 --> 0:09:54.476 to try to correct the behavior. You need the safety 0:09:54.476 --> 0:09:57.876 of self acceptance to be able to criticize your behavior 0:09:57.996 --> 0:10:00.236 and to learn from it. Yeah. 0:10:00.356 --> 0:10:03.236 One really counterintuitive finding that I stumbled upon when I 0:10:03.236 --> 0:10:06.236 was reading your work is that when we are consumed 0:10:06.236 --> 0:10:09.436 by shame, it actually makes it harder for us to 0:10:09.516 --> 0:10:10.676 apologize to others. 0:10:10.916 --> 0:10:11.156 Yes. 0:10:11.396 --> 0:10:14.276 There was also another study that I read about that 0:10:15.436 --> 0:10:18.276 hits on what I would call moral motivation. Ah. Yes, 0:10:18.436 --> 0:10:23.036 so research suggesting that self compassion can actually increase our 0:10:23.076 --> 0:10:27.116 motivation to take personal responsibility for our actions. Yeah. 0:10:27.156 --> 0:10:31.556 So one study they did Brienni's and Chen was they 0:10:31.676 --> 0:10:36.596 had undergraduate students think about some behavior they had done 0:10:36.636 --> 0:10:39.916 that they regretted. Maybe they lied to someone, or they 0:10:39.996 --> 0:10:42.476 cheated on an exam, or they did something they felt 0:10:42.476 --> 0:10:45.076 really badly about. And one group of people they gave 0:10:45.116 --> 0:10:48.916 instructions to be compassionate about what they had done, and 0:10:48.996 --> 0:10:52.116 a control group they told nothing, which meant they were 0:10:52.116 --> 0:10:54.596 probably beating themselves up about what they'd done, because that's 0:10:54.676 --> 0:10:57.236 kind of default mode for most of us. And what 0:10:57.276 --> 0:10:59.476 they found was that the students who were told to 0:10:59.476 --> 0:11:02.796 be compassionate about the mistake they made when they were 0:11:02.836 --> 0:11:06.716 asked how motivated are you to either apologize or actually 0:11:06.756 --> 0:11:09.436 to repair the mistake in some way, they found those 0:11:09.476 --> 0:11:12.476 who are told to be self compassionate were more motivated 0:11:12.836 --> 0:11:15.236 to repair the situation and to apologize. 0:11:15.636 --> 0:11:19.796 Wow. So another myth that I love you to bust 0:11:20.076 --> 0:11:23.556 is that self compassion is demotivating. And this one's personal. 0:11:23.596 --> 0:11:27.596 So my husband, Jimmy, he loves playing competitive squash. Okay, 0:11:27.596 --> 0:11:30.156 he's obsessed with squash. He's obsessed with getting better, and 0:11:31.116 --> 0:11:34.476 he's so self motivated, but he really berates himself when 0:11:34.516 --> 0:11:38.196 he has a poor performance. And as someone who really 0:11:38.196 --> 0:11:41.116 loves him, I hate seeing him in this self duration mode, 0:11:41.196 --> 0:11:44.156 Like it's pretty painful after a tournament or after some 0:11:44.196 --> 0:11:46.876 competition for him to be like, oh God, why did 0:11:46.876 --> 0:11:48.396 I do that? Or you know I messed up or 0:11:48.396 --> 0:11:50.876 I didn't play my best. But what I tell him 0:11:50.916 --> 0:11:53.636 to stop the self criticism, to curve it a bit. 0:11:54.196 --> 0:11:56.556 His counter argument is that he doesn't want to lose 0:11:56.796 --> 0:11:59.716 that part of himself because it means he might have 0:11:59.836 --> 0:12:02.956 less motivation to work hard during his next practice session. 0:12:03.436 --> 0:12:06.796 And so, yeah, give me a good argument with my husband. 0:12:07.436 --> 0:12:09.116 Yeah, well, I'll give you the argument that I'll give 0:12:09.196 --> 0:12:12.036 you the data. Because this one is also very very clear, 0:12:12.516 --> 0:12:15.556 is that self compassion is a more effective motivator than 0:12:15.556 --> 0:12:19.036 self criticism. So self criticism does kind of work. Clearly, 0:12:19.116 --> 0:12:22.196 it gets people through med school, It probably motivates your husband, 0:12:22.556 --> 0:12:25.796 But the motivation comes from fear I have to do 0:12:25.836 --> 0:12:28.556 better or else I'll slam myself, And that's motivating. No 0:12:28.556 --> 0:12:30.516 one wants to feel like they're a bad person or 0:12:30.516 --> 0:12:34.276 a loser, so that does provide some motivational power, but 0:12:34.316 --> 0:12:37.476 it also has some maladaptive side effects, which is first 0:12:37.476 --> 0:12:41.476 of all, performance anxiety. Right, So we want some anxiety 0:12:41.516 --> 0:12:44.076 to feel like, okay, it's important that I work. But 0:12:44.356 --> 0:12:46.716 performance anxiety, which is kind of fear of if I 0:12:46.796 --> 0:12:49.076 mess up, I'm going to be a loser or I'm 0:12:49.076 --> 0:12:51.676 going to shame myself. That actually stands in the way 0:12:51.676 --> 0:12:54.956 of our ability to do our best. It also undermines 0:12:54.996 --> 0:12:59.036 our self confidence. But this is really key. It undermines 0:12:59.076 --> 0:13:01.716 our ability to learn. It's very similar to what we 0:13:01.756 --> 0:13:05.236 were just talking about. If you shame yourself for losing, 0:13:05.276 --> 0:13:07.956 I'm a loser, I'm a bad person, you aren't going 0:13:07.996 --> 0:13:11.156 to be as able to say, Okay, just because I 0:13:11.236 --> 0:13:13.476 lost doesn't mean I'm a loser. What can I do 0:13:13.556 --> 0:13:17.276 better next time? And so self compassion is very strongly 0:13:17.556 --> 0:13:20.396 linked to a learning goal orientation as opposed to what's 0:13:20.436 --> 0:13:23.716 called performance goals, which is my success or failure, defiance 0:13:23.836 --> 0:13:26.116 my work as a person. There's a new study that 0:13:26.236 --> 0:13:28.716 isn't even published yet. It just got accepted a few 0:13:28.796 --> 0:13:30.796 days ago. Hot Off the Presses. 0:13:30.396 --> 0:13:32.916 Who I Love? Hot Off the Presses? Slight change listeners, 0:13:34.156 --> 0:13:35.316 listen not so you know. 0:13:35.596 --> 0:13:38.636 I work at University of Texas at Austin, and I 0:13:38.676 --> 0:13:40.996 had a dissertation student at the time. He was an 0:13:40.996 --> 0:13:46.156 ex basketball player who for her dissertation decided to formalize 0:13:46.276 --> 0:13:50.396 a self compassion training for NC DOUBLEA athletes. So we 0:13:50.476 --> 0:13:55.116 did a study with several high end NC DOUBLEA sports teams, 0:13:55.116 --> 0:13:58.516 all different sports, and we taught them self compassion over 0:13:58.556 --> 0:14:02.116 about four weeks. We actually didn't call it self compassion 0:14:02.156 --> 0:14:03.836 because we knew that was stand in the way. We 0:14:03.876 --> 0:14:07.116 called it inner resilience training, and we taught them how 0:14:07.156 --> 0:14:10.796 to be warm and supportive and kind of themselves when 0:14:10.796 --> 0:14:13.396 they were having trouble in their training routine or if 0:14:13.436 --> 0:14:16.116 they lost in their sport. And what we found is 0:14:16.156 --> 0:14:19.556 not only did it help players' mental health, it improved 0:14:19.556 --> 0:14:24.396 their performance, both self rated and coach rated performance, because again, 0:14:25.236 --> 0:14:28.356 when it's okay to make a mistake or to lose, 0:14:28.676 --> 0:14:30.716 you're more able to learn from the loss or the 0:14:30.756 --> 0:14:32.676 mistake and improve it next time. 0:14:33.116 --> 0:14:37.716 So yes, I love all this research, Kristen. Another concern 0:14:37.796 --> 0:14:39.836 that I'd had when it came to engaging with the 0:14:39.876 --> 0:14:42.756 self compassion work or trying out these interventions is that 0:14:43.756 --> 0:14:48.596 it just kind of felt self centered or selfish or narcissistic. 0:14:48.676 --> 0:14:50.916 I don't know. I was like, what am I doing here? 0:14:51.036 --> 0:14:54.836 Sitting here trying to love myself? Like I just yeah, 0:14:55.076 --> 0:14:57.676 convinced me that this is not just the most extreme 0:14:57.756 --> 0:14:58.996 form of narcissism. 0:14:59.316 --> 0:15:03.316 Yes, well, absolutely. The reason it's not selfish or narcissistic 0:15:03.956 --> 0:15:07.996 is because it's not like we only have five units 0:15:08.036 --> 0:15:11.116 of compassion and if we give three to ourselves, we 0:15:11.156 --> 0:15:13.676 only have two left over for other people. It actually 0:15:13.716 --> 0:15:16.796 doesn't work this way. Then the research is very clear. 0:15:17.196 --> 0:15:20.036 The more self compassion we give ourselves, in other words, 0:15:20.036 --> 0:15:22.836 the more we fill our own cup, the more compassion 0:15:22.876 --> 0:15:26.436 we have available to give to others. Right, so, there's 0:15:26.476 --> 0:15:28.716 a couple of studies that show this one is burnout. 0:15:28.836 --> 0:15:31.716 You know, this burnout such a problem. We know whether 0:15:31.756 --> 0:15:34.396 you're a special needs parent or you're a healthcare worker, 0:15:34.716 --> 0:15:37.516 if you're more self compassionate, you're less likely to burn 0:15:37.556 --> 0:15:41.876 out or experience fatigue giving compassion to others. And then 0:15:42.036 --> 0:15:44.796 the other evidence we have that self compassion isn't selfish. 0:15:44.876 --> 0:15:48.556 This is that in relationships, our partners say that we're 0:15:48.596 --> 0:15:52.476 more giving, we're less selfish, we're less controlling in the 0:15:52.556 --> 0:15:56.316 relationship if we have self compassion. And again, it's really 0:15:56.356 --> 0:16:00.596 about resourcing yourself. When you can resource yourself, you actually 0:16:00.636 --> 0:16:03.316 have more to give to others and you aren't so 0:16:03.396 --> 0:16:06.316 self focused because it's like, oh, okay, maybe I made 0:16:06.356 --> 0:16:09.276 a mistake or maybe this is a little difficult, and 0:16:09.316 --> 0:16:11.356 you give yourself what you need to get through that, 0:16:11.756 --> 0:16:14.396 and that actually gives you the emotional energy you need 0:16:14.756 --> 0:16:18.556 to care for others. Shame and self criticism is an 0:16:18.636 --> 0:16:21.276 incredibly self focused state, you know, who are you thinking 0:16:21.316 --> 0:16:24.116 about when you're beating yourself up? Not other people? 0:16:25.116 --> 0:16:28.836 A good point toiche. I think this is such a 0:16:28.876 --> 0:16:32.596 critical point that you're making about us not having finite 0:16:32.836 --> 0:16:36.236 compassion resources, because I think we do think of it 0:16:36.276 --> 0:16:39.036 as a trade off instinctively. Oh, if I'm really compassionate 0:16:39.076 --> 0:16:41.356 towards myself, then I have fewer resources to give to others, 0:16:42.516 --> 0:16:44.796 Or if I'm really compassionate towards others, I don't have 0:16:44.836 --> 0:16:47.316 the resources to give that same compassion to myself. Yes, 0:16:47.436 --> 0:16:49.236 And what you're telling me is that we shouldn't see 0:16:49.276 --> 0:16:52.436 it as a limited resource. We actually can tap into 0:16:52.476 --> 0:16:55.156 a lot and it can be a virtuous cycle where 0:16:55.156 --> 0:16:57.796 the more we invest compassion ourselves, the more the more 0:16:57.836 --> 0:16:59.916 we have to give to others. Is that right? 0:17:00.196 --> 0:17:03.276 Absolutely, it's additive. It's not a zero sum game. 0:17:03.996 --> 0:17:08.316 Yes, yeah, Okay, an important distinction you make, so in 0:17:08.476 --> 0:17:11.636 us really grasping what self compassion is, it's important to 0:17:11.636 --> 0:17:14.436 say what it is not. Yes, And so you do 0:17:14.596 --> 0:17:18.236 distinguish between something like self compassion and self esteem. And 0:17:18.236 --> 0:17:21.036 I think this actually helps us understand why it is 0:17:21.076 --> 0:17:25.636 not self indulgent, it's not necessarily ego boosting to be 0:17:25.676 --> 0:17:29.156 self compassion. So tell me about the difference between self 0:17:29.156 --> 0:17:31.276 compassion and self esteem. 0:17:31.556 --> 0:17:35.276 Right, So self esteem, at least, you know, people define 0:17:35.916 --> 0:17:38.276 different ways. But if you think about the word esteem, 0:17:38.356 --> 0:17:43.756 it's a judgment or an evaluation of worth. So usually 0:17:43.756 --> 0:17:47.116 it's predicated on being special and above average. You know, 0:17:47.156 --> 0:17:50.036 if I said, hey, Maya, you have this podcasts average, 0:17:50.156 --> 0:17:52.596 You're going to be devastated. If you say, hey, Christian, 0:17:52.676 --> 0:17:55.676 your research is average, I'll be devastated. Right, So the 0:17:55.716 --> 0:17:57.236 way it's set up is we all have to be 0:17:57.316 --> 0:18:01.556 above average just for baseline self esteem. And so because 0:18:01.596 --> 0:18:04.916 we're always comparing ourselves to others, that could lead to 0:18:04.996 --> 0:18:08.916 problems like narcissism. If you think what narcissism is is 0:18:09.116 --> 0:18:11.956 people who have to either be really superior to others 0:18:12.316 --> 0:18:15.596 or who cannot take any negative feedback whatsoever they deflected. 0:18:15.596 --> 0:18:18.796 They put up the shield because it's so devastating. So 0:18:18.836 --> 0:18:22.036 self esteem is based on social comparison. It's also based 0:18:22.116 --> 0:18:26.116 on UH performance success, and that might be you know, 0:18:26.156 --> 0:18:29.516 success in terms of am I attractive? Do people like me? 0:18:30.036 --> 0:18:33.836 And so self esteem tends to be contingent on external 0:18:33.916 --> 0:18:37.516 factors like did I succeed or not. So self esteem 0:18:37.556 --> 0:18:39.356 is a fair weather friend, right. It's there for you 0:18:39.396 --> 0:18:41.516 when you're better than others or when you succeed, and 0:18:41.556 --> 0:18:45.036 it deserts you when you need it most, when you're rejected, 0:18:45.156 --> 0:18:47.476 or you feel inadequate, or you you know, fall flat 0:18:47.516 --> 0:18:50.316 on your face. Self compassion is a good friend. It's 0:18:50.316 --> 0:18:53.356 a stable friend. And if you're smiling and say, where's 0:18:53.396 --> 0:18:55.756 the research for that? One study, for instance, is we 0:18:55.796 --> 0:18:59.116 did measure self worth. We measured it twelve times over 0:18:59.156 --> 0:19:02.436 an eight month period, and it was level of overall 0:19:02.476 --> 0:19:06.316 self compassion, not level of self esteem that predicted stability 0:19:06.316 --> 0:19:08.756 and self worth. You know, so self worth goes up 0:19:08.796 --> 0:19:10.956 and down with self esteem. You have a good hair day, 0:19:10.956 --> 0:19:13.876 you have a bad hair day. Self compassion is really 0:19:14.116 --> 0:19:18.396 a constant friend. It's intrinsic to being human. Right. The 0:19:18.476 --> 0:19:22.636 quintessential self compassion question is what do I need right now? 0:19:23.556 --> 0:19:25.916 What do I need to learn? What do I need 0:19:25.956 --> 0:19:28.316 to be there for myself right now? What do I need? 0:19:28.356 --> 0:19:30.436 Do I need to give some help? Do I need 0:19:30.516 --> 0:19:33.996 a bath? Wisdom is what tells you the answer, but 0:19:34.116 --> 0:19:37.116 being willing to ask the question is key because what 0:19:37.116 --> 0:19:39.756 you're saying is my needs count I'm worthy of care 0:19:39.836 --> 0:19:40.396 and support. 0:19:41.556 --> 0:19:44.996 After the break, Kristen walks us through the three elements 0:19:44.996 --> 0:19:48.996 of self compassion. Then she shares a helpful exercise so 0:19:49.036 --> 0:19:55.876 we can start practicing this skill in real time. We'll 0:19:55.876 --> 0:20:01.796 be back in a moment with a slight change of plans. 0:20:07.796 --> 0:20:11.516 I love this three opponent model you have for self compassion, 0:20:12.196 --> 0:20:15.836 and it actually starts with mindfulness, which is a little 0:20:15.836 --> 0:20:18.156 bit of a surprise for me. So help me thread 0:20:18.196 --> 0:20:21.396 the needle between mindfulness and self compassion. 0:20:21.836 --> 0:20:24.356 Yes, so, first of all, that's not an accident because 0:20:24.356 --> 0:20:27.396 I first learned about self compassion when I was learning 0:20:27.476 --> 0:20:32.236 mindfulness meditation, And so mindfulness has to be in self 0:20:32.236 --> 0:20:36.476 compassion because mindfulness is what allows us to turn toward 0:20:36.676 --> 0:20:40.916 and acknowledge the pain. We can't give ourself warmth and 0:20:40.956 --> 0:20:43.036 support or ask you know, what can I do to 0:20:43.076 --> 0:20:47.276 help if we don't acknowledge it, I'm hurting, And because 0:20:47.276 --> 0:20:51.436 we're human beings who are naturally resistant to pain and suffering, 0:20:51.996 --> 0:20:54.236 often we don't either. We ignore it. We just stiff 0:20:54.316 --> 0:20:55.956 up the lip. But I'm just not going to pause 0:20:55.996 --> 0:20:59.236 to acknowledge that I'm hurting and need some compassion, or 0:20:59.236 --> 0:21:01.116 if we do the opposite, which I like to call 0:21:01.196 --> 0:21:04.716 over identification, and that means we're lost in the negative emotion. 0:21:04.836 --> 0:21:08.636 We're lost in the feelings of fear, shame, or anger, 0:21:08.716 --> 0:21:11.516 or whatever it happens to be. And so if you 0:21:11.516 --> 0:21:13.436 think about if a friend were to call you up, 0:21:13.596 --> 0:21:15.796 and first of all, you didn't take their phone call, 0:21:16.196 --> 0:21:17.796 you didn't listen to what your friend had to say, 0:21:17.796 --> 0:21:19.876 You couldn't give them compassion. You know, I'm too busy. 0:21:19.996 --> 0:21:22.716 We often do that with their selves. Actually we're too 0:21:22.756 --> 0:21:26.196 busy deposit and acknowledge we're hurting and we need a 0:21:26.196 --> 0:21:29.076 little help. But the other thing, imagine if your friend 0:21:29.076 --> 0:21:31.156 called you and you just talked right over them and 0:21:31.156 --> 0:21:32.916 you didn't give them any space for them to tell 0:21:32.956 --> 0:21:36.356 you your story. We also actually do that with ourself a lot. 0:21:36.396 --> 0:21:39.236 We get so wrapped up in our pain and the 0:21:39.276 --> 0:21:41.996 story and the drama of what's happening that there's no 0:21:42.196 --> 0:21:45.676 space to step outside of ourselves and say, hey, you're 0:21:45.676 --> 0:21:47.716 really having a hard time. How can I help you? 0:21:48.316 --> 0:21:50.956 So we actually need to start with mindfulness. We need 0:21:50.996 --> 0:21:53.796 to turn towards the pain, as uncomfortable as it is, 0:21:54.316 --> 0:21:58.876 in order to respond with this warmth and kindness and 0:21:58.956 --> 0:22:02.036 so then the second element of self compassion, which actually 0:22:02.076 --> 0:22:06.956 may not be so intuitive, is a sense of common humanity, 0:22:07.716 --> 0:22:11.116 or in other words, recognize seeing that we aren't alone. 0:22:12.036 --> 0:22:16.316