1 00:00:15,410 --> 00:00:22,810 Speaker 1: Pushkin Hello. This week I'm sharing with you a double bill, 2 00:00:23,170 --> 00:00:29,050 Speaker 1: two shorter mini episodes of cautionary tales, twice the storytelling excitement. 3 00:00:29,570 --> 00:00:33,890 Speaker 1: These cautionary tale shorts were previously only available to Pushkin 4 00:00:33,970 --> 00:00:38,570 Speaker 1: Plus subscribers, but now everyone can hear them, and a 5 00:00:38,610 --> 00:00:41,930 Speaker 1: reminder that if you are a Pushkin Plus subscriber. We've 6 00:00:41,970 --> 00:00:45,450 Speaker 1: released our epic series on the V two Rocket, looking 7 00:00:45,450 --> 00:00:50,290 Speaker 1: at this fearsome Nazi weapon from three very different perspectives. 8 00:00:51,050 --> 00:00:54,490 Speaker 1: For now and for everyone, I present a screw loose 9 00:00:54,690 --> 00:00:59,570 Speaker 1: at seventeen thousand feet and first a monkey for mayor. 10 00:01:03,890 --> 00:01:08,010 Speaker 1: It's early in the nineteenth century and England is at 11 00:01:08,050 --> 00:01:13,330 Speaker 1: war with the France. Far up the northeast coast of England, 12 00:01:13,770 --> 00:01:16,410 Speaker 1: a long way from the action. There's been a shipwreck, 13 00:01:17,690 --> 00:01:20,650 Speaker 1: so the story goes, and something else that was on 14 00:01:20,690 --> 00:01:26,210 Speaker 1: the ship has washed up too. A man? Is it 15 00:01:26,290 --> 00:01:30,930 Speaker 1: a man? It's like no man I've ever seen. The 16 00:01:30,930 --> 00:01:35,450 Speaker 1: people of Hartlepool had never seen a monkey. There was 17 00:01:35,490 --> 00:01:40,770 Speaker 1: something else they'd also never seen a Frenchman. Could it 18 00:01:40,810 --> 00:01:43,090 Speaker 1: be a Frenchman come to spy on us? Do you 19 00:01:43,090 --> 00:01:48,970 Speaker 1: think I suppose it could be? Seize him? If this 20 00:01:49,290 --> 00:01:53,130 Speaker 1: was indeed a French spy. Clearly they would have to 21 00:01:53,250 --> 00:01:57,570 Speaker 1: hang him. The countries were at war at first, he 22 00:01:57,690 --> 00:02:10,490 Speaker 1: deserved a fair trial. Are you a French spy? What's 23 00:02:10,530 --> 00:02:15,290 Speaker 1: he saying? I don't know, I don't speak French. The 24 00:02:15,410 --> 00:02:24,250 Speaker 1: people of Hartlepool hung the monkey. I'm Tim Harford and 25 00:02:24,290 --> 00:02:54,050 Speaker 1: you're listening to cautionary tales? Did this really happen? Did 26 00:02:54,050 --> 00:02:57,450 Speaker 1: the people of Hartlepool really mistake a monkey for a 27 00:02:57,530 --> 00:03:02,930 Speaker 1: French spy during the Napoleonic Wars? Well? That would be telling, 28 00:03:03,010 --> 00:03:06,290 Speaker 1: wouldn't it. And it doesn't actually matter for the purposes 29 00:03:06,330 --> 00:03:09,530 Speaker 1: of our cautionary tale. What we do know from the 30 00:03:09,610 --> 00:03:12,970 Speaker 1: historical record is that the legend soon came to be 31 00:03:13,050 --> 00:03:18,530 Speaker 1: widely believed. People from nearby towns poked fun at Hartleypudlians 32 00:03:18,770 --> 00:03:23,410 Speaker 1: with a song in former times miss war and strife 33 00:03:23,770 --> 00:03:28,370 Speaker 1: when French invasion threatened life, and always armoured to the knife. 34 00:03:28,890 --> 00:03:34,610 Speaker 1: The Fisherman hung a monkey or Hartletpudlian, by the way, 35 00:03:35,130 --> 00:03:40,010 Speaker 1: is what people from Hartlepool are called. Sometimes they're also 36 00:03:40,050 --> 00:03:46,970 Speaker 1: still known today as monkey hangers. Over the decades, Hartlepool 37 00:03:47,050 --> 00:03:50,130 Speaker 1: grew from a tiny village into a town of ninety 38 00:03:50,250 --> 00:03:54,650 Speaker 1: thousand people, not many a fisherman anymore, although the staple 39 00:03:54,650 --> 00:03:57,890 Speaker 1: food is still fish and chips, served with the traditional 40 00:03:58,010 --> 00:04:02,770 Speaker 1: regional delicacy of mushy peas a bright green, lumpy glop 41 00:04:03,570 --> 00:04:08,690 Speaker 1: unpromising to look at delightful to taste. Hartlepool became an 42 00:04:08,730 --> 00:04:13,690 Speaker 1: industrial port built on steel and shipbuilding, then struggled as 43 00:04:13,730 --> 00:04:18,730 Speaker 1: those industries declined, and through it all the gentle mockery 44 00:04:18,850 --> 00:04:24,330 Speaker 1: from nearby towns continued. Hartlerpudlians decided there was only one 45 00:04:24,370 --> 00:04:28,690 Speaker 1: way to respond, by joining in and laughing at themselves. 46 00:04:29,410 --> 00:04:32,810 Speaker 1: They embraced the monkey hanging story as a source of 47 00:04:32,890 --> 00:04:37,890 Speaker 1: civic identity, even civic pride. They weren't proud about their forebears, 48 00:04:38,050 --> 00:04:40,690 Speaker 1: not knowing the difference between a monkey and a Frenchman. 49 00:04:40,730 --> 00:04:44,210 Speaker 1: Of course, the pride is in the self deprecating humor, 50 00:04:44,770 --> 00:04:47,450 Speaker 1: being a good sport, the ability to take a joke. 51 00:04:48,770 --> 00:04:53,610 Speaker 1: When Hartlepool's soccer club needed a mascot, the choice was obvious. 52 00:04:54,370 --> 00:05:01,370 Speaker 1: They called him Hangus Hangus, the monkey that's Angus with 53 00:05:01,490 --> 00:05:08,850 Speaker 1: an h apostrophe at the front. Hang Us. At Hartlepool 54 00:05:08,890 --> 00:05:12,370 Speaker 1: Unit games, Hangus played by a man in a full 55 00:05:12,410 --> 00:05:17,010 Speaker 1: body costume, performed the traditional role of the mascot, entertaining 56 00:05:17,050 --> 00:05:21,930 Speaker 1: the crowd before kickoff and at halftime. Hangus sometimes took 57 00:05:21,970 --> 00:05:25,010 Speaker 1: things too far. At one game, he got into a 58 00:05:25,050 --> 00:05:29,970 Speaker 1: fight against the rival team's mascot, Desmond the Dragon. He 59 00:05:30,170 --> 00:05:35,450 Speaker 1: punched Desmond's head off. At another, Hangus was kicked out 60 00:05:35,530 --> 00:05:42,610 Speaker 1: of an opponent stadium on suspicion of being drunk. At 61 00:05:42,610 --> 00:05:44,690 Speaker 1: this point in the story, I need to take you 62 00:05:44,730 --> 00:05:49,450 Speaker 1: on a brief diversion into politics. In two thousand and two, 63 00:05:49,530 --> 00:05:53,490 Speaker 1: the UK changed its system of local government. Until two 64 00:05:53,530 --> 00:05:57,810 Speaker 1: thousand and two, only big cities had directly elected their mayors. 65 00:05:58,570 --> 00:06:02,770 Speaker 1: More modestly sized towns like Hartlepool elected a town council 66 00:06:03,210 --> 00:06:06,970 Speaker 1: and the councilors chose the mayor from among themselves. Now, 67 00:06:07,170 --> 00:06:11,330 Speaker 1: national reforms meant that more town like Hartlepool would also 68 00:06:11,410 --> 00:06:16,570 Speaker 1: be asked to elect a mayor directly. In Heartlepool, there 69 00:06:16,610 --> 00:06:19,570 Speaker 1: was little doubt about who would win the first mayoral election. 70 00:06:20,250 --> 00:06:23,890 Speaker 1: It would be whoever the Labour Party picked as their candidate. 71 00:06:24,970 --> 00:06:28,730 Speaker 1: Labour usually won elections. In Hartlepool. The biggest group of 72 00:06:28,770 --> 00:06:32,450 Speaker 1: town councilors was Labor. The member of Parliament was Labor 73 00:06:32,610 --> 00:06:35,850 Speaker 1: Hartlepool was a working town and Labour was the party 74 00:06:35,890 --> 00:06:40,770 Speaker 1: of workers, or it always had been, but its national 75 00:06:40,890 --> 00:06:44,490 Speaker 1: leaders were trying to change its left wing image. They 76 00:06:44,570 --> 00:06:49,050 Speaker 1: no longer talked about socialism or taxing the wealthy. One 77 00:06:49,170 --> 00:06:52,610 Speaker 1: party high flyer had recently made waves by saying they 78 00:06:52,650 --> 00:06:58,770 Speaker 1: were intensely relaxed about people getting filthy rich. That high 79 00:06:58,810 --> 00:07:04,570 Speaker 1: flyer was called Peter Mandelson. He also happened to be 80 00:07:04,650 --> 00:07:09,650 Speaker 1: the Member of Parliament for Hartlepool, the towns represents in 81 00:07:09,690 --> 00:07:14,730 Speaker 1: the London Legislature, but mister Mandleson was not very representative 82 00:07:14,770 --> 00:07:19,530 Speaker 1: of the town. Hartlepool is gritty and provincial. Mister Mandleson, 83 00:07:19,650 --> 00:07:24,850 Speaker 1: who comes from London, was smooth and urbane and cosmopolitan. 84 00:07:26,050 --> 00:07:30,050 Speaker 1: It said that when mister Mandelsson first traveled to Heartlepool 85 00:07:30,130 --> 00:07:33,450 Speaker 1: to campaign for election, his local handlers took him to 86 00:07:33,530 --> 00:07:37,490 Speaker 1: a ficient chip shop. He spotted the tub of gloopy green, 87 00:07:37,570 --> 00:07:41,650 Speaker 1: mushy peas and asked for a portion of that excellent 88 00:07:41,650 --> 00:07:49,370 Speaker 1: looking guacamole. That story isn't true, but like the monkey story, 89 00:07:49,730 --> 00:07:53,850 Speaker 1: it stuck because it seemed to capture something about how 90 00:07:53,890 --> 00:07:58,330 Speaker 1: the Labor Party's leaders didn't understand their traditional northern voters 91 00:07:59,410 --> 00:08:02,490 Speaker 1: still they'd win the election for mayor. Of course they would. 92 00:08:02,930 --> 00:08:09,290 Speaker 1: Hartlepool was a labor town. At Hertlepool United Football Club, 93 00:08:09,690 --> 00:08:12,330 Speaker 1: the man who wore the monkey costume went to the 94 00:08:12,330 --> 00:08:18,090 Speaker 1: club chairman with an idea. What if Hangus the Monkey 95 00:08:18,210 --> 00:08:21,530 Speaker 1: ran for mayor as a joke. It would raise the 96 00:08:21,570 --> 00:08:25,050 Speaker 1: profile of the club. He suggested. Maybe raise some money. 97 00:08:25,930 --> 00:08:30,170 Speaker 1: Go for it, said the club's chairman. So Hangus began 98 00:08:30,290 --> 00:08:34,290 Speaker 1: a campaign for mayor with a flagship promise of free 99 00:08:34,330 --> 00:08:39,210 Speaker 1: bananas for all the town's school children. Bookmakers gave odds 100 00:08:39,210 --> 00:08:42,770 Speaker 1: of one hundred to one. And you can guess where 101 00:08:42,810 --> 00:08:46,490 Speaker 1: I'm going with this story, can't you. Here are the 102 00:08:46,530 --> 00:08:50,410 Speaker 1: results of the election for Mayor of Hartlepool. Leo Gillman, 103 00:08:50,730 --> 00:08:54,930 Speaker 1: the Labor Party candidate, six seven hundred and sixty two votes, 104 00:08:56,050 --> 00:09:01,130 Speaker 1: Hangus the Monkey seven thousand, three hundred and ninety five volks. 105 00:09:02,570 --> 00:09:12,010 Speaker 1: Hartlepool had once supposedly hung a monkey, now elected one. 106 00:09:13,410 --> 00:09:17,810 Speaker 1: Only technically speaking, it wasn't the monkey who'd been elected. 107 00:09:18,650 --> 00:09:22,330 Speaker 1: It was the man who wore the costume. His name 108 00:09:22,650 --> 00:09:26,570 Speaker 1: was Stuart Drummond. He was twenty eight years old. He 109 00:09:26,610 --> 00:09:30,730 Speaker 1: worked in a call center. He knew absolutely nothing about 110 00:09:30,730 --> 00:09:34,810 Speaker 1: local government, and now he found himself unexpectedly put in 111 00:09:34,890 --> 00:09:38,570 Speaker 1: charge of a municipal authority with an annual budget of 112 00:09:38,610 --> 00:09:42,650 Speaker 1: over one hundred million pounds that's almost two hundred and 113 00:09:42,650 --> 00:09:47,170 Speaker 1: fifty million dollars in today's terms, and three thousand staff 114 00:09:47,570 --> 00:09:54,490 Speaker 1: looking to him for leadership. There's a famous theory, partly 115 00:09:54,490 --> 00:09:58,610 Speaker 1: a joke and partly deadly serious, which is called the 116 00:09:58,730 --> 00:10:03,330 Speaker 1: Peter principle. The Peter principle says that people who are 117 00:10:03,330 --> 00:10:06,770 Speaker 1: good at their jobs will keep on being promoted until 118 00:10:06,770 --> 00:10:08,610 Speaker 1: they end up in jobs that they don't have the 119 00:10:08,650 --> 00:10:12,770 Speaker 1: skills to do well. They then stay in this job indefinitely, 120 00:10:13,370 --> 00:10:18,650 Speaker 1: too incompetent to be promoted further, the Peter principle says 121 00:10:18,690 --> 00:10:22,370 Speaker 1: that promotion is a way of losing good workers without 122 00:10:22,450 --> 00:10:28,130 Speaker 1: any guarantee of gaining good managers. In two thousand and nine, 123 00:10:28,450 --> 00:10:32,490 Speaker 1: researchers from the University of Catania in Italy wondered if 124 00:10:32,610 --> 00:10:38,210 Speaker 1: promoting people at random might solve the Peter principal problem. 125 00:10:38,530 --> 00:10:41,850 Speaker 1: That may sound crazy, but a few years earlier some 126 00:10:41,970 --> 00:10:45,930 Speaker 1: other researchers in Texas had studied random promotion as a 127 00:10:45,970 --> 00:10:49,410 Speaker 1: point of comparison for promoting by merit or length of 128 00:10:49,450 --> 00:10:53,610 Speaker 1: time with the organization. To their surprise, they found that 129 00:10:53,810 --> 00:10:57,170 Speaker 1: random choice was almost as likely to identify a junior 130 00:10:57,210 --> 00:11:00,130 Speaker 1: worker who turned out to have the skills to succeed 131 00:11:00,210 --> 00:11:04,490 Speaker 1: in a senior role, and promoting people at random, rather 132 00:11:04,530 --> 00:11:06,610 Speaker 1: than picking out those who were good at their job, 133 00:11:06,970 --> 00:11:09,930 Speaker 1: would also keep more people in life lower level jobs 134 00:11:09,930 --> 00:11:14,050 Speaker 1: that they're good at. The academics from Catania modeled the 135 00:11:14,050 --> 00:11:18,850 Speaker 1: effects and argued that organizations would indeed become more efficient 136 00:11:18,930 --> 00:11:25,050 Speaker 1: overall if they handed out promotions randomly for their troubles. 137 00:11:25,170 --> 00:11:30,450 Speaker 1: The Italian researchers received an ig Nobel Prize in Management Theory, 138 00:11:30,890 --> 00:11:34,290 Speaker 1: a prize for research that makes you laugh then makes 139 00:11:34,290 --> 00:11:38,490 Speaker 1: you think. Inspired by this award, or at the very least, 140 00:11:38,690 --> 00:11:42,930 Speaker 1: undeterred by it, they went on to ask another provocative question, 141 00:11:44,210 --> 00:11:48,370 Speaker 1: why don't we do this for politicians too? Politics is 142 00:11:48,450 --> 00:11:53,290 Speaker 1: broken only partisan hacks get elected. What if we appointed 143 00:11:53,450 --> 00:11:59,450 Speaker 1: at least some parliamentarians by drawing lots? Might it improve 144 00:11:59,570 --> 00:12:08,490 Speaker 1: the quality of governance? Stuart Drummond wasn't quite drawn by 145 00:12:08,530 --> 00:12:11,970 Speaker 1: lot to be Mayor of Hartlepool, but I can't imagine 146 00:12:12,010 --> 00:12:16,130 Speaker 1: anything more similar to a random chance. He never intended 147 00:12:16,170 --> 00:12:19,490 Speaker 1: to be mayor. He had none of the conventional qualifications. 148 00:12:19,730 --> 00:12:23,570 Speaker 1: He had no interest whatsoever in politics. He'd stood for 149 00:12:23,650 --> 00:12:28,450 Speaker 1: election as Hangus only as a joke. When the result 150 00:12:28,530 --> 00:12:32,730 Speaker 1: was announced, the twenty eight year old was dazed. Then 151 00:12:33,170 --> 00:12:37,650 Speaker 1: Stewart says he saw the town's member of parliament striding 152 00:12:37,730 --> 00:12:43,930 Speaker 1: up to him. Peter Mandelsson looked furious. You're a disgrace. 153 00:12:44,290 --> 00:12:47,570 Speaker 1: You've set this town back twenty years. You think any 154 00:12:47,650 --> 00:12:50,330 Speaker 1: business will want to invest here? Now you've made us 155 00:12:50,370 --> 00:12:56,650 Speaker 1: a laughing stock. Peter Mandelsson started to quiz mister Drummond 156 00:12:56,650 --> 00:13:00,090 Speaker 1: about his background. What did he do other than where 157 00:13:00,090 --> 00:13:03,770 Speaker 1: a monkey costume on weekends? What had he studied at university? 158 00:13:04,330 --> 00:13:09,810 Speaker 1: Business and languages. Mister Drummond replied, yes, sir, ironically, hangus 159 00:13:09,810 --> 00:13:15,810 Speaker 1: the monkey spoke French. Mister Mandelsson stalked off, leaving mister 160 00:13:15,850 --> 00:13:20,650 Speaker 1: Drummond feeling even more bewildered. A few minutes later, mister 161 00:13:20,730 --> 00:13:24,410 Speaker 1: Drummond caught sight of a television on which mister Mandelsson 162 00:13:24,810 --> 00:13:30,850 Speaker 1: was being interviewed. No, not at all. Stuart's an intelligent guy. 163 00:13:31,090 --> 00:13:34,210 Speaker 1: He speaks three languages, he has a degree in business, 164 00:13:34,450 --> 00:13:37,090 Speaker 1: he has the best interests of the town at heart, 165 00:13:39,010 --> 00:13:42,930 Speaker 1: and that, said Stuart Drummond, was his introduction to how 166 00:13:43,010 --> 00:13:50,610 Speaker 1: politics works. Mister Drummond could have refused to take up 167 00:13:50,650 --> 00:13:54,090 Speaker 1: the post of mayor, but he thought, why not give 168 00:13:54,130 --> 00:13:56,770 Speaker 1: it a go. He figured out what it needed to 169 00:13:56,850 --> 00:14:00,410 Speaker 1: learn and sent himself on training courses. It was like 170 00:14:00,490 --> 00:14:03,810 Speaker 1: doing six master's degrees in six months, he later said. 171 00:14:04,570 --> 00:14:07,050 Speaker 1: But after a year or so he began to feel 172 00:14:07,050 --> 00:14:10,650 Speaker 1: like he was getting the hang of it, and he 173 00:14:10,770 --> 00:14:15,370 Speaker 1: kept his big campaign promise about free bananas well close enough. 174 00:14:15,770 --> 00:14:18,650 Speaker 1: He found some funding from a healthy eating program, and 175 00:14:18,930 --> 00:14:23,290 Speaker 1: every day the schools of Hartlepool offered their children a 176 00:14:23,330 --> 00:14:27,570 Speaker 1: free piece of fruit. At the end of his term 177 00:14:27,570 --> 00:14:32,330 Speaker 1: as mayor, Stewart Drummond stood for re election, not as 178 00:14:32,570 --> 00:14:38,690 Speaker 1: Hangus this time, but as himself. He won with a 179 00:14:38,730 --> 00:14:42,650 Speaker 1: bigger share of the vote. Four years later, at the 180 00:14:42,730 --> 00:14:45,530 Speaker 1: end of his second term, he stood for a third 181 00:14:46,490 --> 00:14:50,530 Speaker 1: and one again. He'd got the job by accident, but 182 00:14:50,610 --> 00:14:53,770 Speaker 1: the people of Hartlepool clearly thought he'd done it well. 183 00:14:55,930 --> 00:14:59,010 Speaker 1: So if you ever find yourself looking at the politicians 184 00:14:59,010 --> 00:15:02,610 Speaker 1: who govern us and wondering if a random person picked 185 00:15:02,650 --> 00:15:06,050 Speaker 1: off the street could do better, I have one thing 186 00:15:06,090 --> 00:15:12,330 Speaker 1: to say to you. I think that's French for you 187 00:15:12,410 --> 00:15:20,850 Speaker 1: might be right. Can you tell the difference, dear listener, 188 00:15:20,930 --> 00:15:23,650 Speaker 1: between an A two one one seventy bolt and an 189 00:15:23,730 --> 00:15:27,490 Speaker 1: A two to one one eight c well? Nor could 190 00:15:27,530 --> 00:15:31,810 Speaker 1: the tired and stressed engineer fitting a cockpit windshield to 191 00:15:31,930 --> 00:15:36,570 Speaker 1: flight five three ninety. Our next cautionary tale short looks 192 00:15:36,570 --> 00:15:40,530 Speaker 1: at what happened when those two very similar bolts were 193 00:15:40,610 --> 00:15:45,050 Speaker 1: modeled up and how the dramatic consequences played out at 194 00:15:45,170 --> 00:15:57,450 Speaker 1: seventeen thousand feet that's after the break. The maintenance hangar 195 00:15:57,570 --> 00:16:01,610 Speaker 1: at Birmingham International Airport, near an industrial city in the 196 00:16:01,610 --> 00:16:05,530 Speaker 1: English Midlands is not a glamorous location in the dark 197 00:16:05,610 --> 00:16:09,290 Speaker 1: hours before the dawn, but it is an important one. 198 00:16:10,770 --> 00:16:15,610 Speaker 1: The night shift maintenance manager is replacing an aging airplane windshield. 199 00:16:16,450 --> 00:16:21,250 Speaker 1: Let's call him Guy, it isn't his real name. Standing 200 00:16:21,250 --> 00:16:25,250 Speaker 1: on a raised maintenance platform beside the plane, Guy examines 201 00:16:25,290 --> 00:16:28,970 Speaker 1: the ninety bolts he's just removed along with the old windshield. 202 00:16:29,970 --> 00:16:32,930 Speaker 1: Those bolts are a bit worn. He thinks he's going 203 00:16:32,930 --> 00:16:38,490 Speaker 1: to need to replace them too. But one bolt looks 204 00:16:38,610 --> 00:16:44,290 Speaker 1: pretty much the same as any other. Which ones should 205 00:16:44,330 --> 00:16:50,770 Speaker 1: he use? I'm Tim Harford, and you're listening to cautionary 206 00:16:50,810 --> 00:17:23,290 Speaker 1: tales instead of consulting the manual. Guy grabs one of 207 00:17:23,290 --> 00:17:26,490 Speaker 1: the bolts he's removed, climbs down, and heads to the 208 00:17:26,570 --> 00:17:29,970 Speaker 1: room where the spare parts are stored. He knows roughly 209 00:17:30,010 --> 00:17:32,770 Speaker 1: what he's looking for, and so quickly finds the box 210 00:17:32,810 --> 00:17:35,610 Speaker 1: with the bolts that match the bolt he's brought with him. 211 00:17:36,170 --> 00:17:41,250 Speaker 1: They're a two, one one seventy's. Oh crap, says Guy 212 00:17:41,290 --> 00:17:44,090 Speaker 1: to himself. There are less than half a dozen left. 213 00:17:44,650 --> 00:17:49,650 Speaker 1: He needs eighty five more. Guy drives across the airport 214 00:17:49,810 --> 00:17:55,010 Speaker 1: to another spares storage facility. This one is unstaffed and 215 00:17:55,090 --> 00:17:58,970 Speaker 1: poorly lit. If you're standing in front of the parts draws, 216 00:17:59,450 --> 00:18:05,370 Speaker 1: you're also obstructing the light. It's night, it's raining, and 217 00:18:05,450 --> 00:18:09,050 Speaker 1: Guy hasn't brought his reading glasses. Even if he has, 218 00:18:09,610 --> 00:18:15,810 Speaker 1: the drawers aren't labeled properly. Crap crap, crap crap. At 219 00:18:15,890 --> 00:18:18,730 Speaker 1: least Guy has one of the right bolts with him, 220 00:18:19,210 --> 00:18:22,050 Speaker 1: so he manually compares it until he finds a box 221 00:18:22,050 --> 00:18:25,090 Speaker 1: with the right bolts in or at least he thinks 222 00:18:25,130 --> 00:18:28,730 Speaker 1: they're the right bolts, and then he remembers one section 223 00:18:28,770 --> 00:18:33,050 Speaker 1: of the windshield needs six slightly longer bolts. Which ones 224 00:18:33,050 --> 00:18:36,410 Speaker 1: are they? He finds the longer bolts and he drives 225 00:18:36,450 --> 00:18:39,450 Speaker 1: back to the plane. The next step is to grab 226 00:18:39,490 --> 00:18:42,650 Speaker 1: a special tool called a tork crunch, which, when the 227 00:18:42,650 --> 00:18:46,250 Speaker 1: bolt is tight enough, stops tightening and instead gives a click. 228 00:18:47,210 --> 00:18:52,970 Speaker 1: Except that the tork crunch is missing from the tool store. Crap, crap, crap. 229 00:18:54,490 --> 00:18:57,210 Speaker 1: I should confess that I'm someone who has trouble putting 230 00:18:57,250 --> 00:18:59,770 Speaker 1: up a bookshelf so that it stays straight and level 231 00:18:59,770 --> 00:19:02,770 Speaker 1: at a height of four feet. I have both sympathy 232 00:19:02,930 --> 00:19:06,290 Speaker 1: and admiration for the maintenance crews who keep an entire 233 00:19:06,410 --> 00:19:09,810 Speaker 1: airplane in tip top condition able to keep straight and 234 00:19:09,890 --> 00:19:13,370 Speaker 1: level at thirty thousand feet. But the thought that one 235 00:19:13,410 --> 00:19:16,890 Speaker 1: of them might be as fallible as I am it's unnerving. 236 00:19:18,490 --> 00:19:23,050 Speaker 1: Matt Parker, whose book Humble Pie contains the definitive account 237 00:19:23,050 --> 00:19:26,650 Speaker 1: of this sorry tale, rights, I can really empathize with 238 00:19:26,690 --> 00:19:30,130 Speaker 1: the guy. It wasn't even his job to replace the windshield, 239 00:19:30,410 --> 00:19:32,770 Speaker 1: but because they were short staff that night and he 240 00:19:32,890 --> 00:19:38,370 Speaker 1: was the manager, he stepped in to avoid further delays. Great, 241 00:19:39,290 --> 00:19:42,890 Speaker 1: so guy is trying to replace a windshield he doesn't 242 00:19:42,890 --> 00:19:45,530 Speaker 1: have the right parts, he doesn't have the right tools, 243 00:19:45,970 --> 00:19:49,210 Speaker 1: and it's not even his regular job, and did I 244 00:19:49,290 --> 00:19:53,730 Speaker 1: mention that it's four o'clock in the morning. Guy returns 245 00:19:53,770 --> 00:19:56,730 Speaker 1: to the plane with his next best option, a talk 246 00:19:56,970 --> 00:20:01,330 Speaker 1: limiting screwdriver. The trouble is it needs an adapter which 247 00:20:01,410 --> 00:20:04,970 Speaker 1: doesn't fit, which means that the adapter keeps falling out 248 00:20:05,530 --> 00:20:07,850 Speaker 1: and Guy keeps having to climb down from the maintenance 249 00:20:07,890 --> 00:20:11,290 Speaker 1: platform and climb back up again. It also means he's 250 00:20:11,330 --> 00:20:15,690 Speaker 1: having to use both hands for the job, which is awkward. Finally, 251 00:20:15,770 --> 00:20:19,730 Speaker 1: Guy reaches for those six longer bolts. They don't fit. 252 00:20:20,650 --> 00:20:23,610 Speaker 1: They have to be kidding me. In the end, the 253 00:20:23,650 --> 00:20:26,570 Speaker 1: guy decides that the old bolts he'd decided to replace 254 00:20:26,690 --> 00:20:33,170 Speaker 1: are probably fine. It's now five o'clock in the morning. 255 00:20:33,890 --> 00:20:36,730 Speaker 1: It's been a long night shift, but at least Guy 256 00:20:36,850 --> 00:20:39,330 Speaker 1: can head home to bed in the knowledge of a 257 00:20:39,450 --> 00:20:46,690 Speaker 1: job well done. A day later, the tenth of June 258 00:20:47,010 --> 00:20:52,090 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety, British Airways flight five three ninety climbed off 259 00:20:52,130 --> 00:20:56,250 Speaker 1: the runway at Birmingham Airport and turned south towards Malaga 260 00:20:56,290 --> 00:20:59,770 Speaker 1: in Spain. There were eighty one passengers on board and 261 00:20:59,810 --> 00:21:02,090 Speaker 1: most of them were looking forward to a vacation on 262 00:21:02,170 --> 00:21:07,050 Speaker 1: the Costadel Soul. As a plane climbs higher, the air 263 00:21:07,090 --> 00:21:11,530 Speaker 1: pressure outside gets lower. The air inside is kept at 264 00:21:11,530 --> 00:21:14,970 Speaker 1: a constant pressure, so it pushes more and more firmly 265 00:21:15,370 --> 00:21:19,530 Speaker 1: against the inside of the aircraft. There's a huge amount 266 00:21:19,530 --> 00:21:23,730 Speaker 1: of pressure pushing out against the windshield. As BA five 267 00:21:23,850 --> 00:21:29,010 Speaker 1: three ninety rose past seventeen thousand feet, Captain Tim Lancaster 268 00:21:29,490 --> 00:21:33,090 Speaker 1: was relaxing and shrugging off his shoulder harness. He had 269 00:21:33,130 --> 00:21:38,810 Speaker 1: no warning at all. There was a sudden explosive bang 270 00:21:39,010 --> 00:21:44,130 Speaker 1: and the windshield disappeared. The cabin almost instantly depressurized. Captain 271 00:21:44,210 --> 00:21:47,130 Speaker 1: Lancaster was sucked out of his seat and out towards 272 00:21:47,170 --> 00:21:51,050 Speaker 1: the freezing air above Didcock, Oxfordshire. He would have disappeared 273 00:21:51,130 --> 00:21:53,850 Speaker 1: just as quickly as the windshield, had his legs not 274 00:21:53,890 --> 00:21:58,490 Speaker 1: become tangled in the aircraft controls flights to it. Nigel 275 00:21:58,530 --> 00:22:01,210 Speaker 1: Ogden was opening the door to the flight deck to 276 00:22:01,290 --> 00:22:04,090 Speaker 1: offer the crew a cup of tea. The door was 277 00:22:04,210 --> 00:22:06,410 Speaker 1: ripped off its hinges and flew out of the gap 278 00:22:06,410 --> 00:22:09,650 Speaker 1: where the windshield had been. Ogden just just had time 279 00:22:09,690 --> 00:22:13,490 Speaker 1: to see that Captain Lancaster was heading the same way. Instinctively, 280 00:22:13,530 --> 00:22:17,690 Speaker 1: he leaped forward and grabbed Lancaster's waist, but he gashed 281 00:22:17,690 --> 00:22:21,050 Speaker 1: his hand badly as he did, and without the protection 282 00:22:21,090 --> 00:22:24,690 Speaker 1: of the windshield, Ogden was now being blasted with air 283 00:22:24,770 --> 00:22:28,130 Speaker 1: at zero degrees fahrenheit as he desperately tried to keep 284 00:22:28,170 --> 00:22:32,570 Speaker 1: hold of Captain Lancaster's legs. The upper half of Lancaster's 285 00:22:32,610 --> 00:22:35,850 Speaker 1: body was outside the plane and now in danger of 286 00:22:35,890 --> 00:22:41,570 Speaker 1: disappearing into the slip stream. Through the side windshield, Nigel 287 00:22:41,570 --> 00:22:44,930 Speaker 1: Ogden could see the Captain being buffeted against the outside 288 00:22:44,970 --> 00:22:50,650 Speaker 1: of the plane. Lancaster's face was blooded, his eyes wide 289 00:22:51,170 --> 00:22:57,730 Speaker 1: and sightless. Meanwhile, the co pilot, Alistair Atchison, was fortunately 290 00:22:57,890 --> 00:23:02,090 Speaker 1: still in his shoulder harness. But when Tim Lancaster's legs 291 00:23:02,130 --> 00:23:05,890 Speaker 1: had snagged in the controls, they'd switched off the autopilot. 292 00:23:06,570 --> 00:23:09,250 Speaker 1: The plane was now plummeting downwards at one hundreds of 293 00:23:09,330 --> 00:23:12,610 Speaker 1: miles an hour. Copilot Atchison was fighting to get the 294 00:23:12,610 --> 00:23:15,890 Speaker 1: aircraft back under control while coping with the wind and 295 00:23:15,930 --> 00:23:19,450 Speaker 1: the lack of oxygen and the coal. At that kind 296 00:23:19,450 --> 00:23:22,250 Speaker 1: of altitude, you really want to be wearing a thick coat, 297 00:23:22,330 --> 00:23:26,810 Speaker 1: a hat and gloves. Atchison was dressed in short sleeves. 298 00:23:28,090 --> 00:23:32,450 Speaker 1: So was flight steward Nigel Ogden. He was bleeding, freezing, 299 00:23:32,970 --> 00:23:36,850 Speaker 1: and starting to lose his grip on Captain Lancaster. Other 300 00:23:36,930 --> 00:23:39,970 Speaker 1: crew members rushed to help. There was a hurried exchange 301 00:23:39,970 --> 00:23:41,570 Speaker 1: as to whether they would have to let go of 302 00:23:41,610 --> 00:23:46,250 Speaker 1: the captain's body. Never, yelled Ogden, how would they look 303 00:23:46,250 --> 00:23:49,650 Speaker 1: his widow in the eyes? Co pilot Atchison had a 304 00:23:49,650 --> 00:23:52,970 Speaker 1: more practical concern. He shouted that the body might hit 305 00:23:53,170 --> 00:23:58,570 Speaker 1: the plane's engine. He urged them to hang on. Eventually, 306 00:23:58,730 --> 00:24:02,410 Speaker 1: Alista Atchison managed to level the plane at a lower altitude. 307 00:24:02,930 --> 00:24:06,730 Speaker 1: The air became warmer and more breathable, but he still 308 00:24:06,730 --> 00:24:09,610 Speaker 1: had to get the plane on the ground. Was yelling 309 00:24:09,610 --> 00:24:12,290 Speaker 1: at air traffic control, trying to be heard over the 310 00:24:12,370 --> 00:24:16,330 Speaker 1: rush of the wind. They directed him to Southampton Airport 311 00:24:16,490 --> 00:24:19,610 Speaker 1: on the south coast of England. Atchison pointed out that 312 00:24:19,650 --> 00:24:22,610 Speaker 1: the plane was heavy with fuel, so he need a 313 00:24:22,650 --> 00:24:26,130 Speaker 1: long runway to be able to stop safely. As long 314 00:24:26,170 --> 00:24:28,450 Speaker 1: as we have two and a half thousand meters, I'm happy, 315 00:24:29,050 --> 00:24:32,850 Speaker 1: he said. Air Traffic control gave him the bad news. 316 00:24:33,850 --> 00:24:39,010 Speaker 1: Southampton's runway was seven hundred meters short of that, but 317 00:24:39,130 --> 00:24:42,770 Speaker 1: under the circumstances. Atchison didn't want to make any more details. 318 00:24:44,010 --> 00:24:47,890 Speaker 1: Talk me down, he told Southampton Control. I need all 319 00:24:47,930 --> 00:24:51,330 Speaker 1: the help I can get, and make sure the emergency 320 00:24:51,330 --> 00:24:58,810 Speaker 1: crews are ready. Against the odds, Atchison's landing was perfect. 321 00:24:59,970 --> 00:25:04,090 Speaker 1: Bleeding and frostbitten, Nigel Ogden staggered back to help evacuate 322 00:25:04,090 --> 00:25:08,610 Speaker 1: the passengers. None of them were hurt, most of them 323 00:25:08,690 --> 00:25:14,290 Speaker 1: elected to fly on to Malaga. That afternoon, Ogden returned 324 00:25:14,290 --> 00:25:18,250 Speaker 1: to the flight deck to find Captain Tim Lancaster lying 325 00:25:18,290 --> 00:25:22,730 Speaker 1: on a paramedic stretcher. He was blooded and most of 326 00:25:22,770 --> 00:25:26,290 Speaker 1: his clothes had been ripped off, but he was awake 327 00:25:27,130 --> 00:25:31,010 Speaker 1: and asking when he could eat. Ogden slumped into a 328 00:25:31,050 --> 00:25:41,610 Speaker 1: seat and began to sob with shock and relief. Why 329 00:25:41,690 --> 00:25:46,170 Speaker 1: had the aeroplane's brand new windshield popped off? It isn't 330 00:25:46,210 --> 00:25:50,210 Speaker 1: hard to guess. The day before the flight maintenance guy 331 00:25:50,330 --> 00:25:53,610 Speaker 1: had grabbed the wrong bolts, hadn't he He didn't have 332 00:25:53,730 --> 00:25:56,530 Speaker 1: the A two one one seven D bolts. He got 333 00:25:56,610 --> 00:25:59,170 Speaker 1: himself a fistful of A two one one eight SE's 334 00:26:00,490 --> 00:26:04,330 Speaker 1: Matt Parker, the author of Humble Pie, ordered himself both 335 00:26:04,370 --> 00:26:09,090 Speaker 1: types of bolt just to take a look, they're astonishingly similar. 336 00:26:10,010 --> 00:26:12,370 Speaker 1: The A two to one one seven D bolts have 337 00:26:12,410 --> 00:26:16,530 Speaker 1: a slightly different thread, a fractionally shorter, and are one 338 00:26:16,730 --> 00:26:20,450 Speaker 1: quarter of one tenth of an inch thicker. Even in 339 00:26:20,530 --> 00:26:24,250 Speaker 1: daylight with perfect eyesight, the difference is hard to spot. 340 00:26:25,490 --> 00:26:28,450 Speaker 1: Guy was doing it in the dark without his glasses. 341 00:26:29,370 --> 00:26:33,210 Speaker 1: But while a difference is subtle, that one quarter of 342 00:26:33,250 --> 00:26:35,650 Speaker 1: one tenth of an inch means that the bolts are 343 00:26:35,690 --> 00:26:38,810 Speaker 1: slim enough to be ripped out once the air pressure 344 00:26:38,850 --> 00:26:46,370 Speaker 1: outside is low enough. That is exactly what happened, But 345 00:26:46,570 --> 00:26:50,450 Speaker 1: as Matt Parker explains, there's more going on here. Guy 346 00:26:50,610 --> 00:26:53,690 Speaker 1: only chose the wrong bolts because the original store wasn't 347 00:26:53,690 --> 00:26:57,130 Speaker 1: properly stocked and the backup store was a poorly lit, 348 00:26:57,210 --> 00:27:01,010 Speaker 1: poorly labeled mess. He didn't notice that the bolts didn't 349 00:27:01,010 --> 00:27:04,010 Speaker 1: fit properly because he was using the wrong tool, which 350 00:27:04,050 --> 00:27:08,690 Speaker 1: obscured his view. His talque limiting screwdriver was supposed to 351 00:27:08,730 --> 00:27:12,770 Speaker 1: click when it reached the right tension. Instead, the misfitted 352 00:27:12,810 --> 00:27:16,090 Speaker 1: bolts would slip in a way that apparently felt quite similar, 353 00:27:16,890 --> 00:27:20,970 Speaker 1: and the shift manager didn't check Guy's work because Guy 354 00:27:21,570 --> 00:27:27,250 Speaker 1: was the shift manager. Safety experts have acute analogy to 355 00:27:27,290 --> 00:27:31,850 Speaker 1: describe what's going on here, first proposed by James Reason, 356 00:27:32,330 --> 00:27:35,770 Speaker 1: a psychologist and the author of many books about human error. 357 00:27:36,930 --> 00:27:40,490 Speaker 1: James Reason's analogy is to imagine different safety measures as 358 00:27:40,650 --> 00:27:44,490 Speaker 1: slices of Swiss cheese with holes in them line up, 359 00:27:44,530 --> 00:27:47,770 Speaker 1: slice after slice of Swiss cheese, and usually the holes 360 00:27:47,810 --> 00:27:51,130 Speaker 1: won't overlap. There'll be no holes that go all the 361 00:27:51,170 --> 00:27:55,490 Speaker 1: way through the stack of cheese slices. In this analogy, 362 00:27:55,690 --> 00:27:59,690 Speaker 1: the holes represent something going wrong, but usually when something 363 00:27:59,730 --> 00:28:03,050 Speaker 1: goes wrong there's some sort of fallback. The hole in 364 00:28:03,090 --> 00:28:07,370 Speaker 1: one slices covered by cheese from another slice, or maintenance 365 00:28:07,410 --> 00:28:10,050 Speaker 1: guy grabs the wrong bolts, but with the proper tool 366 00:28:10,090 --> 00:28:12,850 Speaker 1: and the better view he notices that the bolts are slipping, 367 00:28:13,890 --> 00:28:18,010 Speaker 1: or a supervisor checks the work and spots the problem. 368 00:28:18,210 --> 00:28:21,850 Speaker 1: Mistakes turn into accidents. When all the problems line up, 369 00:28:22,130 --> 00:28:24,610 Speaker 1: like all the slices of Swiss cheese having a hole 370 00:28:24,770 --> 00:28:28,890 Speaker 1: in the same place. That's really bad luck, a million 371 00:28:28,970 --> 00:28:33,810 Speaker 1: to one piece of bad luck. But sometimes really bad 372 00:28:33,890 --> 00:28:43,850 Speaker 1: luck strikes. I interviewed James Reason a few years ago, 373 00:28:44,330 --> 00:28:46,770 Speaker 1: and he told me he's been thinking about his Swiss 374 00:28:46,850 --> 00:28:51,450 Speaker 1: cheese analogy a little differently. The mistakes don't all have 375 00:28:51,570 --> 00:28:57,730 Speaker 1: to line up simultaneously. Instead, some mistakes cause lasting problems 376 00:28:57,770 --> 00:29:03,730 Speaker 1: that nobody notices. They lurk in wait, never fixed. It's 377 00:29:03,850 --> 00:29:07,530 Speaker 1: like that particular slice of Swiss cheese was nibbled away 378 00:29:07,610 --> 00:29:12,810 Speaker 1: months ago and no is realized. For example, the rule 379 00:29:12,850 --> 00:29:16,010 Speaker 1: that if the shift manager does the work, nobody checks it. 380 00:29:16,770 --> 00:29:20,890 Speaker 1: That's an accident waiting to happen. So's the badly organized, 381 00:29:20,930 --> 00:29:25,690 Speaker 1: badly stocked, badly lit spare part store. And perhaps most 382 00:29:25,690 --> 00:29:30,250 Speaker 1: profoundly so is the existence of several subtly different types 383 00:29:30,250 --> 00:29:34,650 Speaker 1: of bolt. The bolts are in labeled boxes, but they 384 00:29:34,690 --> 00:29:39,890 Speaker 1: themselves aren't labeled, and they're almost indistinguishable. Yet put the 385 00:29:39,890 --> 00:29:44,450 Speaker 1: wrong one in and you have a problem. This confusion 386 00:29:44,610 --> 00:29:48,410 Speaker 1: could be avoided. The entire windshield could have been designed 387 00:29:48,650 --> 00:29:52,130 Speaker 1: to be fitted from the inside so that the internal 388 00:29:52,210 --> 00:29:56,810 Speaker 1: air pressure pushed it tighter against the hull. More awkward, perhaps, 389 00:29:57,090 --> 00:30:01,450 Speaker 1: but safer. Failing that, new windshields could at least come 390 00:30:01,490 --> 00:30:04,410 Speaker 1: prepackaged as a kit with a set of the correct bolts. 391 00:30:05,210 --> 00:30:07,450 Speaker 1: At the very least, each bolt could be stamped with 392 00:30:07,490 --> 00:30:12,450 Speaker 1: a label. When the windshield was found intact in a 393 00:30:12,490 --> 00:30:16,250 Speaker 1: field near Oxford along with some of the bolts. It 394 00:30:16,290 --> 00:30:19,570 Speaker 1: didn't take accident investigators long to figure out what had 395 00:30:19,610 --> 00:30:25,370 Speaker 1: gone wrong. Broadly speaking, they blamed Guy and the managers, 396 00:30:25,410 --> 00:30:27,530 Speaker 1: who should have been paying more attention to the way 397 00:30:27,570 --> 00:30:31,210 Speaker 1: Guy and his colleagues were doing their jobs fair enough, 398 00:30:32,730 --> 00:30:37,770 Speaker 1: but they also discovered something else. When British Airways had 399 00:30:37,770 --> 00:30:43,570 Speaker 1: acquired the aircraft, the windshield was already fitted with the 400 00:30:43,610 --> 00:30:48,170 Speaker 1: wrong bolts. Instead of being slightly too slim, they were 401 00:30:48,210 --> 00:30:51,650 Speaker 1: slightly too short. It's all a question of whether you 402 00:30:51,690 --> 00:30:54,410 Speaker 1: fit the A two one one sevent d's, the A 403 00:30:54,570 --> 00:30:57,850 Speaker 1: two one one eight s's, or the correct bolts the 404 00:30:57,890 --> 00:31:03,730 Speaker 1: A two to one one eight d's. Confused wealth maintenance 405 00:31:03,770 --> 00:31:07,050 Speaker 1: Guy was anyway. It turns out that you can get 406 00:31:07,090 --> 00:31:10,810 Speaker 1: away with bolts that are slightly too short, but as 407 00:31:10,810 --> 00:31:15,330 Speaker 1: Captain Tim Lancaster discovered, you can't get away with bolts 408 00:31:15,370 --> 00:31:20,810 Speaker 1: that are too slim. You should also be nervous. After 409 00:31:20,850 --> 00:31:25,010 Speaker 1: the accident, airlines started double checking the windshields on this 410 00:31:25,090 --> 00:31:28,690 Speaker 1: sort of plane. It turns out that BA five three 411 00:31:28,770 --> 00:31:32,410 Speaker 1: ninety wasn't the only plane flying with the wrong bolts, 412 00:31:33,330 --> 00:31:37,490 Speaker 1: not by a long shot. One airline found that half 413 00:31:37,610 --> 00:31:41,090 Speaker 1: the planes of this type had windshields fastened with bolts 414 00:31:41,170 --> 00:31:46,530 Speaker 1: that were too short. Maintenance guy had caused a terrifying accident, 415 00:31:47,210 --> 00:31:50,890 Speaker 1: but perhaps more unnerving were all those planes flying around 416 00:31:50,930 --> 00:31:59,610 Speaker 1: the world with the wrong bolts installed. Captain Tim Lancaster 417 00:31:59,770 --> 00:32:02,970 Speaker 1: had suffered frostbite and a broken arm, along with many 418 00:32:03,010 --> 00:32:06,370 Speaker 1: cuts and bruises, but within a few months he had recovered. 419 00:32:07,290 --> 00:32:10,770 Speaker 1: He continued flying for another fifty dean years before retiring. 420 00:32:11,930 --> 00:32:16,610 Speaker 1: Nigel Ogden wasn't so lucky. He suffered a dislocated shoulder 421 00:32:16,810 --> 00:32:21,290 Speaker 1: and a frostbitten eye, but the real injury was to 422 00:32:21,330 --> 00:32:25,410 Speaker 1: his peace of mind. He could never forget the experience 423 00:32:25,450 --> 00:32:28,410 Speaker 1: of clinging on to what he assumed was a corpse, 424 00:32:29,050 --> 00:32:32,970 Speaker 1: or the sight of Tim Lancaster's face smashing against the window, 425 00:32:33,610 --> 00:32:39,130 Speaker 1: eyes sightlessly staring. He retired early on the grounds of 426 00:32:39,170 --> 00:32:43,530 Speaker 1: ill health and went to work for a charity. Given 427 00:32:43,570 --> 00:32:46,690 Speaker 1: what we now know about all those planes and all 428 00:32:46,690 --> 00:32:57,970 Speaker 1: those wrong bolts, I don't blame him. If you like 429 00:32:58,050 --> 00:33:01,450 Speaker 1: stories of things going wrong, you'll love Matt Parker's book 430 00:33:01,650 --> 00:33:05,050 Speaker 1: Humble Pie. For a full list of our sources, see 431 00:33:05,090 --> 00:33:11,450 Speaker 1: the show notes at Timharford dot com. Cautionary Tales is 432 00:33:11,490 --> 00:33:15,570 Speaker 1: written by me Tim Harford with Andrew Wright. It's produced 433 00:33:15,570 --> 00:33:19,610 Speaker 1: by Ryan Dilly with support from Courtney Garino and Emily Vaughan. 434 00:33:20,090 --> 00:33:23,250 Speaker 1: The sound design and original music is the work of 435 00:33:23,330 --> 00:33:27,970 Speaker 1: Pascal Wise. Julia Barton edited the scripts. It features the 436 00:33:28,050 --> 00:33:33,130 Speaker 1: voice talents of Ben Crowe, Melanie Gutteridge, Stella Harford, and 437 00:33:33,210 --> 00:33:37,090 Speaker 1: Rufus Wright. The show also wouldn't have been possible without 438 00:33:37,130 --> 00:33:41,970 Speaker 1: the work of Mere LaBelle, Jacob Weisberg, Heather Faine, John Schnaz, 439 00:33:42,490 --> 00:33:49,090 Speaker 1: Carli mcgliori, Eric Sandler, Royston Basserv Maggie Taylor, Nicolmarano, Daniela 440 00:33:49,170 --> 00:33:53,290 Speaker 1: Lakhan and Maya Kanig. Cautionary Tales is a production of 441 00:33:53,450 --> 00:33:57,850 Speaker 1: Pushkin Industries. If you like the show, please remember to share, rate, 442 00:33:58,050 --> 00:34:09,050 Speaker 1: and review.