1 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:07,840 Speaker 1: Amy Roboc and TJ. 2 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:11,760 Speaker 2: Holmes present Killer Thriller with your host Alisa Donovan. 3 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:18,040 Speaker 3: Hey, everyone, welcome back to Killer Thriller. We're picking up 4 00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 3: my conversation with Elizabeth Rome, digging into two cases where 5 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:25,880 Speaker 3: abuse and control went unchecked for years inside a college 6 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:29,840 Speaker 3: campus and inside a family home. All right, let's talk 7 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:34,440 Speaker 3: about Devil on Campus. Now Devil on Campus the Larry 8 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:38,639 Speaker 3: Ray story quickly, For those of you who don't know, 9 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 3: Larry Ray infamously moved in with his daughter on the 10 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:45,080 Speaker 3: campus of her college and became a cult like leader 11 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:49,960 Speaker 3: of her group of friends. It is incredibly disturbing. I 12 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:53,360 Speaker 3: can't express how disturbing it is. He forced some of 13 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:57,160 Speaker 3: them into prostitution for his own financial benefit, amongst a 14 00:00:57,240 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 3: host of other things. And this movie also is so 15 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:09,480 Speaker 3: good and this it gets into you know, cult like behavior, abuse, 16 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 3: all kinds of things. But first I just want to 17 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:16,640 Speaker 3: start with this happened at Sarah Lawrence and you went 18 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:21,440 Speaker 3: to Sarah Lawrence, right, Yeah, so this is very close 19 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 3: to home. 20 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 1: No it did it? Did? 21 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:25,640 Speaker 2: My stepmother had said to me. Did I read the 22 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:28,679 Speaker 2: article that had just come out called The Lost Children 23 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:32,319 Speaker 2: of Sarah Lawrence? In the cut and I said nope, 24 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:35,520 Speaker 2: and she sent it to me, and I thought, and 25 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:40,479 Speaker 2: no judgment necessarily of my alma mater, but my mother 26 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:42,640 Speaker 2: went there as well. I've served on the board of 27 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:44,960 Speaker 2: Sarah Lawrence when I was on Law and Order. I 28 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:48,360 Speaker 2: love this school so much. How in the world could 29 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 2: they have allowed this to happen. 30 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:50,960 Speaker 1: I am a. 31 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:55,040 Speaker 2: Mother of a teenager. I cannot imagine that, I mean, 32 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:58,440 Speaker 2: no checks and balances, that this father who had just 33 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:01,240 Speaker 2: been released from prison, would be allowed to bunk out 34 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:02,400 Speaker 2: in this dorm. 35 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:06,280 Speaker 1: Sort of like and it's hey, no big deal, parents 36 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:09,320 Speaker 1: can visit their children. I mean, I was like outraged, 37 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:10,240 Speaker 1: Oh my god. 38 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 2: And so I reached out to my dear friend Dan Abrams, 39 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:16,920 Speaker 2: who has Lawn Crime, which is a media platform for 40 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:20,840 Speaker 2: crime stories and crime reporting, and I said, you know 41 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 2: this Larry Ray trial. 42 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:24,520 Speaker 1: I need to get in there. I need to get 43 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:25,640 Speaker 1: a screenwriter in there. 44 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:28,600 Speaker 2: At the time, I was talking to the then head 45 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:31,079 Speaker 2: of Lifetime, Tanya Lopez, who had been a great mentor 46 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:33,680 Speaker 2: for me, and I said, can we tell this story? 47 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:36,400 Speaker 2: And of course the answer was yes, but of course 48 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 2: it has to be adjudicated. So then again we're always 49 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 2: waiting for trials to come to end to end and 50 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 2: to then move forward in narrative. So we did that, 51 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:49,160 Speaker 2: and in the meantime, we did a podcast on Wondery 52 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 2: called Devil in the Dorm or I can't remember. The 53 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:54,959 Speaker 2: movie's called Devil on Campus and the podcast is called 54 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:57,640 Speaker 2: Devil in the Dorm. And that was the whole point 55 00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 2: of view of the podcast, which was to say, I 56 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:03,919 Speaker 2: went to school here, like what the fuck? 57 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:07,600 Speaker 3: And I could not believe it. I remember reading about 58 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:10,639 Speaker 3: it and saying this is I don't understand that. I 59 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:13,119 Speaker 3: don't understand how this is possible. Like I couldn't get 60 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 3: past the fact that the first moment, which is wait, 61 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:21,920 Speaker 3: he moved into her dorm room. I don't even understand 62 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 3: how that was allowed. 63 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:27,320 Speaker 2: So that was the first major issue is this would 64 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:30,679 Speaker 2: never have happened had the school shut it down immediately, 65 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:33,640 Speaker 2: And maybe it would have happened, but at the end 66 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:37,200 Speaker 2: of the day, shame on them. And then we did 67 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:42,080 Speaker 2: the podcast. I think the podcast really unpacked Larry Ray's history. 68 00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 2: He was a professional criminal. He was the most corrupt person. 69 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 2: So in other words, you've now allowed this human being 70 00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:57,920 Speaker 2: to bunk out with formative minds, young people who are 71 00:03:57,960 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 2: all lost and all surging. 72 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:01,080 Speaker 1: I mean, we're all lost and searching. 73 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 2: But you know, particular teenager and you're in college, you're 74 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 2: really seeking a sense of self, you're looking for leadership, 75 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:12,520 Speaker 2: you're looking for an identity, frankly, and that's what he did. 76 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 2: He came in with this program that he'd created and 77 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 2: he started to mind meld them. By the end of 78 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:22,279 Speaker 2: the year their sophomore year, he said, come move into 79 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 2: my apartment in Manhattan, and they did, and then everything 80 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 2: went really sideways, right right, and he was found guilty 81 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:32,960 Speaker 2: on sixteen counts of criminal activity, including extortion and prostitution. 82 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:41,240 Speaker 2: Good good not still not, I mean, so not to 83 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:42,839 Speaker 2: say I'm a little afraid when all these people come 84 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:48,160 Speaker 2: out of prison, right right, No, we do have a brand, 85 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:48,720 Speaker 2: after all. 86 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:51,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, at a target on your back. 87 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:55,240 Speaker 3: So how important was it to show you how ordinary 88 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:57,800 Speaker 3: and non threatening he was at first? Because he comes 89 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 3: from the place of visus said sort of help instead 90 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:05,280 Speaker 3: of violent, And I think people often think, oh, it's 91 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 3: some sort of strong violence immediately, and then there everybody there, 92 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:12,679 Speaker 3: you know, minds get warped. It's really from the place 93 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:16,480 Speaker 3: of help that he comes and is able. 94 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 2: To Yeah, I mean, you're like, this guy is so unattractive. 95 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:22,240 Speaker 2: I mean, first of all, how is he getting these 96 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:24,840 Speaker 2: young women to be even enamored with him at all 97 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:26,919 Speaker 2: and then to end up in a relationship with the 98 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 2: two of them. And these are brilliant young people who 99 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:33,440 Speaker 2: are at Sarah Lawrence in Colombia and you know, really 100 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 2: potentially going to do great things with their life. Like 101 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:42,320 Speaker 2: so anyway, he had to be charismatic, and he was charismatic, 102 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:44,160 Speaker 2: and that's what people said. You know, he was the 103 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:46,040 Speaker 2: yes man. He could get it done. You know, he 104 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:51,000 Speaker 2: was a pied piper. And that was why I felt like, 105 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:55,160 Speaker 2: you know, Billy Zane is one of the most charming, brilliant, 106 00:05:55,560 --> 00:06:00,919 Speaker 2: multi hyphened artists. He's sexy, he's intelligent, he's a director. 107 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:04,000 Speaker 2: I thought he's really he could really get underneath this 108 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:07,760 Speaker 2: and and manipulate these kids. 109 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 3: Yep, he's terrific in it, and I horrific. There's a 110 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 3: moment where exemplifies exactly that his belly is kind of 111 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 3: hanging over his undershorts and he's telling them about. 112 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 1: How to work out. 113 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:22,919 Speaker 3: Let's talk about, yeah, like how to work out you 114 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:25,280 Speaker 3: need a firm middle or something, and they're all you know, 115 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 3: they're they're like doing planks on the ground. It's just 116 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:31,520 Speaker 3: like that that is it? Like that is that person? 117 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:33,279 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly. 118 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 2: And Billy couldn't have been a better partner to explore 119 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:42,919 Speaker 2: what like coercive people do that want to manipulate you 120 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 2: and take your power away. 121 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 1: And you know, anyway, it's a pretty horrible tale. 122 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:52,599 Speaker 3: So I read something where one of the survivors said 123 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:56,640 Speaker 3: that Ray took you say, he took away everything that 124 00:06:56,760 --> 00:07:02,240 Speaker 3: made me me. That is like a very strong statement. 125 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 3: So I mean, how do you even begin to translate 126 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 3: that on screen? How do you That feels like a 127 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:09,120 Speaker 3: big responsibility. 128 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 1: I think that you know, first the actors have to 129 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 1: be willing to go there. 130 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 2: And then you know, in the breaking down of somebody's 131 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 2: sense of self and self worth, you know, you're really 132 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:28,680 Speaker 2: getting to play an in an area in our psyche 133 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:31,320 Speaker 2: that is so fragile and that we have to protect. 134 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 2: I say this to my son all the time. I'm like, 135 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 2: be careful who you spend time with. You will become 136 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:39,320 Speaker 2: like them, you know, protect your peace right, all the 137 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:42,320 Speaker 2: things we say as parents or but it is so 138 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 2: important to not give your power away or to let 139 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:48,679 Speaker 2: somebody degrade you, because as they degrade you, you begin 140 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 2: to lose exactly with that quote, like he took away 141 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 2: every part of myself. Now you're only swimming in shame, 142 00:07:57,280 --> 00:08:00,480 Speaker 2: and you're going to start to recede from, you know, 143 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:03,920 Speaker 2: any observation of other people because you're so ashamed. 144 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:06,840 Speaker 1: And then it gets darker and darker and darker. 145 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:10,400 Speaker 2: As you begin to kind of fall into a pattern, 146 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 2: you know, a terrible behavior. 147 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:15,640 Speaker 1: I mean, that's really what happened, you know. 148 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 2: Once she started to particularly be prostituted, her sense of 149 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 2: self was so eroded, and she was so ashamed, and 150 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 2: she'd gotten into a cycle that was so shameful that 151 00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:28,960 Speaker 2: she then totally pulled away from her parents. In the meantime, 152 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 2: her parents were begging her to allow them to save her, 153 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:37,440 Speaker 2: protect her, and to remove her from that relationship. 154 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:40,640 Speaker 1: Like actually, I played Claudia's mom in the movie, and 155 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:42,520 Speaker 1: one of my favorite scenes is when. 156 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:47,280 Speaker 2: He comes to my house and there's she and he 157 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:51,000 Speaker 2: are sitting there and I physically attacked him and she 158 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 2: left with him. Right, that's like a self worth issue, yes, 159 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:58,439 Speaker 2: because she couldn't deal with us saving her. 160 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:02,120 Speaker 3: She couldn't, right, right, that as a mother. I have 161 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 3: a thirteen year old daughter, and you know, these years 162 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:10,719 Speaker 3: thirteen fourteen, they're so particularly vulnerable and really trying to 163 00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:13,480 Speaker 3: figure out who they are. And I see my daughter, 164 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 3: you know, taking on other people's behaviors. Now we're talking 165 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:22,600 Speaker 3: about very simple sort of you know, basic things. But 166 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 3: I'm always trying to say to her, you have to 167 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:27,680 Speaker 3: remember who you are, because this is a kid who 168 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:30,920 Speaker 3: was like her own person all the time, always right, 169 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 3: always a little bit, you know, some weird outfits, always 170 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:37,920 Speaker 3: was interested in interesting things and did and I see 171 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:41,839 Speaker 3: this kind of like narrowing of her vision. And it 172 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:46,319 Speaker 3: really is about self worth and confidence and all those things. 173 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:50,080 Speaker 3: And if we don't develop them and really value a 174 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:54,120 Speaker 3: sense of self, it's so easy to fall into these, 175 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:54,959 Speaker 3: you know. 176 00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:58,400 Speaker 2: And it's hard, Like how do you actually parent people? 177 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:03,319 Speaker 2: You can't control them. I mean, you can't demand it. 178 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 2: You can't force them into having a good relationship with themselves, right, 179 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 2: But I don't know. Maybe if we are people, you know, 180 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:15,080 Speaker 2: who want to manifest good experiences in our lives, and 181 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 2: we think positive thoughts and our thoughts become things and 182 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 2: so forth, and we're teaching our children how to protect 183 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 2: our thoughts and our individuality. 184 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:24,840 Speaker 1: I tried at least say. 185 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:29,760 Speaker 2: To Anthony, you know, to you know, really be careful 186 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 2: who he spends time with, because you will become like 187 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:35,160 Speaker 2: the people you spend time with. And I have, in 188 00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 2: my own life spent time with people who've elevated me, 189 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:40,000 Speaker 2: and I've spent time with people who've brought me to 190 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:40,440 Speaker 2: the gutter. 191 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:46,479 Speaker 3: So true, it's so true. So you know, that's very true. 192 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:50,839 Speaker 3: You were you shocked by how long this went on? 193 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:54,760 Speaker 3: Like how long some of these people I've read it 194 00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:58,319 Speaker 3: till ten years later they were still underhit, like for 195 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:01,640 Speaker 3: that long of a pure of time. Does that surprise you? 196 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 2: I think what it did is it taught me how 197 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:07,800 Speaker 2: easily we can lose ourselves and to go back to 198 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:12,160 Speaker 2: protecting ourselves, not from others, or from intimacy, or from 199 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 2: even trusting making. 200 00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:18,240 Speaker 1: New relationships, but just really listening to your spidey senses. 201 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:21,200 Speaker 2: Right. Yeah, the minute you think that something is not 202 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 2: correct and it does not feel right, it is not right. 203 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:24,920 Speaker 1: Yep. 204 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:28,839 Speaker 2: And because the further you go in to that kind 205 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 2: of bad behavior, the harder it is to get out, 206 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:34,600 Speaker 2: because you begin to lose contact with other people, you 207 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:36,680 Speaker 2: begin to lose contact with your family, and you begin 208 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:40,080 Speaker 2: to lose contact with your inner voice, and you're doing 209 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:43,679 Speaker 2: things you feel terribly ashamed of. So then you, like 210 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:45,760 Speaker 2: you said, you begin to lose your sense of self. 211 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:48,440 Speaker 2: And that's how people get stuck. And that's use of 212 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:50,920 Speaker 2: relationships of any sort of abuse. 213 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:54,880 Speaker 3: That's kind of the core one of the core values 214 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:56,720 Speaker 3: of the cult of how you get there, like the 215 00:11:56,720 --> 00:11:59,559 Speaker 3: sleep deprivation. The more sleep deprived you are, the more 216 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:03,080 Speaker 3: you can think straight, the more susceptible you are to things. 217 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:08,199 Speaker 3: And it's a slippery slope. So you worked with legal 218 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:12,160 Speaker 3: analyst Dan Abrams to get access to raise trial transcripts, 219 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:15,079 Speaker 3: which is incredible. Tell me about that. I mean, it 220 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:16,560 Speaker 3: must have been very, very. 221 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 2: Useful, absolutely, because what we did is, again we were 222 00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:22,880 Speaker 2: waiting for the trial for years, it kept getting postponed 223 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:26,080 Speaker 2: because he kept he kept claiming he had medical issues, 224 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:30,200 Speaker 2: and that's oftentimes something that a criminal, an accused person, 225 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:33,760 Speaker 2: i should say, pulls that card frequently, and that's why 226 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:36,760 Speaker 2: it takes sometimes years to actually get the trial going. 227 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:40,720 Speaker 2: But once it was going, we actually were able to 228 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:42,880 Speaker 2: get in there with a court reporter, so we were 229 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:47,160 Speaker 2: getting access to it minute by minute, and our screenwriter 230 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 2: went there for a couple of days as well. 231 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:50,640 Speaker 1: Oh wow. 232 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:54,320 Speaker 2: So we were writing the movie in real time as 233 00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:56,880 Speaker 2: it was unfolding. Wow, So that by the time it 234 00:12:56,920 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 2: was adjudicated, whichever way it went, we would have ended 235 00:12:59,880 --> 00:13:03,680 Speaker 2: up making amendments, but we were writing the actual film. 236 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:07,200 Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, it was incredible. I didn't realize. 237 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 2: And that's in a weird way what we were doing 238 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:12,040 Speaker 2: with the Dating app Killer too. We were really on 239 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:14,720 Speaker 2: top of that one for two years as we watched 240 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:17,920 Speaker 2: to see what ended up happening in that trial, right, 241 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:20,319 Speaker 2: and what Anthony Robinson was going to be found guilty 242 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:22,679 Speaker 2: of it, which would have impacted the whole ending of 243 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:23,200 Speaker 2: the movie. 244 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:27,320 Speaker 3: Sure, I mean this is again, why is these your 245 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:33,480 Speaker 3: movies feel very deep and nuanced and not sensationalized. It's 246 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 3: you know, research and proper actual backdrop of what's happening. 247 00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:42,560 Speaker 3: So did you so when this is something that I 248 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:46,600 Speaker 3: was thinking and reading all of this, like where all 249 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:49,960 Speaker 3: along the journey, like where were the grown ups? Where 250 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:53,120 Speaker 3: were the adults? Where was where were these people's parents? 251 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:57,720 Speaker 3: Aside from Claudia whom even you know, we only see 252 00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:00,160 Speaker 3: her part of the time. So did you did you 253 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:02,840 Speaker 3: wonder that too, Like, where what about the other parents? 254 00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:03,560 Speaker 3: Where were they? 255 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:06,120 Speaker 2: They were around all the parents were trying to get 256 00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:09,480 Speaker 2: their kids. These were kids who were loved, you know, 257 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:12,319 Speaker 2: the Santos siblings that were involved. You know, again he 258 00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 2: was he was extorting money from them by claiming that 259 00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 2: they had damaged his property. And they're going hand out 260 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 2: to their parents, some with wealthy parents, some with not 261 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:25,000 Speaker 2: wealthy parents, some and asking for money. I mean, they 262 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 2: all just got in so deep with this guy. And 263 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:30,400 Speaker 2: what do parents do when their child is in trouble. 264 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:32,720 Speaker 2: They want to take care of them, Oh did our 265 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:35,880 Speaker 2: child do this thing? And then they're helping their child 266 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:37,680 Speaker 2: out that first time. But then there's a second time, 267 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:38,920 Speaker 2: and a third time and afore you know, and then 268 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:41,680 Speaker 2: it's looking like a racket. So then there's conflict within 269 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:45,160 Speaker 2: the family. But these families, you know, to my knowledge, 270 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:47,720 Speaker 2: were very much trying to get their kids out of 271 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:48,720 Speaker 2: this relationship. 272 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:49,120 Speaker 1: Right. 273 00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:55,160 Speaker 3: Did working on this change how you think about cult behavior? 274 00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 1: Absolutely? 275 00:14:57,440 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 2: Actually, last year we just sold a Sea or East 276 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:04,520 Speaker 2: NBC that was about coercive thought, it's not going to 277 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:07,760 Speaker 2: move forward. But what's interesting is that really birthed the 278 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 2: whole idea that we need, you know, we need medical 279 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 2: professionals that help sort of unscramble people's minds. Yes, once 280 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 2: somebody gets in there and kind of dismantles you and 281 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:21,520 Speaker 2: takes you apart, you need to be put back together 282 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:24,200 Speaker 2: and you need help, and you need experts to help 283 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:26,520 Speaker 2: you with that. And I think that's a very interesting 284 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 2: way to look at victims, to look at crimes, and 285 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:32,720 Speaker 2: to you know, to look at healing. 286 00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 3: Yes, I've I talked with Sarah Edmondson who was in 287 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:40,960 Speaker 3: the Nexium cult, and I'm just blown away by her 288 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:48,000 Speaker 3: how she has really really does the work continually and 289 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:51,040 Speaker 3: continues to do it and to try to help other people. 290 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:55,040 Speaker 3: And it's it's because it's not a simple exit. 291 00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:59,120 Speaker 2: No, And you're not you're not an idiot or not 292 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:04,680 Speaker 2: a goodolved person because you got manipulated by a monster 293 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 2: who just targeted you. 294 00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:09,800 Speaker 1: Right right back to the Dating up killer. Yes, you 295 00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:10,600 Speaker 1: know she was. 296 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:13,680 Speaker 2: Monica White was a target and he was always looking 297 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 2: for these targets that seemed particularly lonely and were articulating 298 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:23,400 Speaker 2: their need for love. And you know he was looking 299 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:24,560 Speaker 2: for these victims too. 300 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:28,080 Speaker 3: So do you think that's the primary thing they like, 301 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:32,320 Speaker 3: why why why fall Smart people get pulled into things 302 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:35,240 Speaker 3: like this, like that of love. 303 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:39,240 Speaker 2: That and also these master manipulators, they know exactly how 304 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:42,200 Speaker 2: to get into your head, tell you what you want 305 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 2: to hear, give you what you want to get. 306 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 1: You know, their love bombers. 307 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:49,240 Speaker 2: I mean they're not just they're not touching in the 308 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:52,400 Speaker 2: face the second they see you. They're manipulating you into 309 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 2: the relationship probably you know, over a period of time, 310 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:58,920 Speaker 2: and then once they've got you, then they break you 311 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:01,240 Speaker 2: down and then they set rate you from your people. 312 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 1: Right. 313 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:06,960 Speaker 3: I just recently saw video, just in preparing for this 314 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:11,359 Speaker 3: after watching the movie, a real video that they had 315 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:17,240 Speaker 3: of him physically, and it's very in the film, it's 316 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:20,600 Speaker 3: done very well, and it's very similar. But how arresting 317 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:23,720 Speaker 3: that is because you see the first, you know, the 318 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:27,800 Speaker 3: love bombing first, and then how it turns to that violence, 319 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:30,720 Speaker 3: and then how confusing that is to the mind, right 320 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:34,680 Speaker 3: the person who's experiencing it, And it's just heartbreaking. 321 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:35,040 Speaker 1: Right right. 322 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:35,360 Speaker 3: Yeah. 323 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:39,480 Speaker 2: There's a scene in the movie where he takes he 324 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:41,879 Speaker 2: takes a hammer to one of the kids and to 325 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:45,959 Speaker 2: threaten them, and I just remember the heartbreak in that 326 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:49,640 Speaker 2: actor's eyes because he was just trying to like please him, 327 00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:52,760 Speaker 2: but it turned really fast and then it becomes an 328 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:57,399 Speaker 2: act of violence. And there's so much disappointment and so 329 00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:00,639 Speaker 2: much hurt in this person, in this actor, but in 330 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:02,960 Speaker 2: the way they portrayed it that I can see, I 331 00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:06,080 Speaker 2: hope you know in the audience can see. You know, 332 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:08,560 Speaker 2: then even that begins to break down your sense of 333 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:12,159 Speaker 2: self because you've trusted this person and now they're degrading you, 334 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:14,040 Speaker 2: and you feel, what have I done wrong? And then 335 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:16,920 Speaker 2: you begin to sort of doubt yourself right right, You 336 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 2: get so confused, and that. 337 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 1: Begins to break down your self esteem too. 338 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:39,879 Speaker 3: Was there a particular moment that really in the case 339 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:45,480 Speaker 3: like that really just major stomach drop that made you say, 340 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:48,280 Speaker 3: I can't believe this is really happening. 341 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:52,760 Speaker 1: I think it was really that scene. 342 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:54,960 Speaker 2: And also when he took all the kids out to 343 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:58,080 Speaker 2: North Carolina and he had them doing manual labor on 344 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:02,199 Speaker 2: his land, and I mean it was like the summer 345 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:05,320 Speaker 2: camp of Larry Ray was like a war camp. And 346 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:09,359 Speaker 2: it was some of them even sleeping outside because and 347 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:12,760 Speaker 2: he would say they want to or he's punishing them, 348 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:15,280 Speaker 2: or you know. And also there you know his daughter 349 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:18,120 Speaker 2: was these were some of her friends, and then he's 350 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 2: kind of putting his daughter up on a pedestal. Like 351 00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:24,040 Speaker 2: the whole situation in North Carolina was like, it's so 352 00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:25,040 Speaker 2: disturbing to me. 353 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:27,320 Speaker 3: So was the daughter in North Carolina? 354 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:28,000 Speaker 1: She was there. 355 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:30,480 Speaker 2: Wish she had gone there for a period of time, 356 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:32,400 Speaker 2: but like they were there for the whole time. 357 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:37,479 Speaker 3: Is she where? Do you know where the daughter is today? 358 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:41,360 Speaker 2: What her she's always kind of I think stood by him. 359 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:45,399 Speaker 2: I don't really know. Yeah, oh boy. 360 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:46,760 Speaker 3: What do you think that or what do you hope 361 00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 3: that parents and colleges take away from this one? 362 00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:52,080 Speaker 1: Well? 363 00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:55,280 Speaker 2: I you know, obviously, I think keep communicating with your kids, 364 00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:57,800 Speaker 2: try not to judge them so that they didn't they 365 00:19:57,800 --> 00:19:59,119 Speaker 2: don't shut the door on you. 366 00:19:59,119 --> 00:19:59,320 Speaker 1: You know. 367 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:01,719 Speaker 2: That's what I really try to do with Anthony. I 368 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:04,280 Speaker 2: want to talk to him about everything, so he includes me. 369 00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:07,080 Speaker 2: Even recently, I was saying to him I had an 370 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:09,399 Speaker 2: opinion about something and he was like stop, And I 371 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:12,320 Speaker 2: was like, you know what, I am going to stop? Yeah, 372 00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:13,840 Speaker 2: I said, you know you're going to have to make 373 00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:16,640 Speaker 2: your decisions. You're going to figure it out. I trust you, 374 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:18,879 Speaker 2: you're going to make it work. Like I needed to 375 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:22,520 Speaker 2: stop micromanaging and evolve with him as he's evolving, so 376 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:25,119 Speaker 2: as he goes to college or becomes a young adult, 377 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:27,120 Speaker 2: that he doesn't close the door to me, so there 378 00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:29,679 Speaker 2: aren't secrets that I am not a part of that 379 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:31,280 Speaker 2: I can't get in there a little bit and at 380 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 2: least try to give him my best advice to just 381 00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:37,240 Speaker 2: be in the conversation with him, because it's that's the 382 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:39,480 Speaker 2: thing I think, you know you can really continue to 383 00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:41,040 Speaker 2: do with your kids is just try to stay in 384 00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:43,080 Speaker 2: their loop and maybe you need to do it a 385 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 2: little bit like they need they need it to be done. 386 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:50,040 Speaker 3: Right, right, That is I mean, parenting is the hardest 387 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:54,600 Speaker 3: thing on earth, but that particular balance is really it's 388 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:58,480 Speaker 3: really I'm finding that challenging, you knoweah, because. 389 00:20:58,200 --> 00:20:59,920 Speaker 2: You want to be like, no, you can't do it that, No, 390 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:02,359 Speaker 2: you can't do that, yeah, and then immediately they're tuting 391 00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:04,600 Speaker 2: you out. As they get older, they'll be doing things 392 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:05,800 Speaker 2: you don't know anything about it. 393 00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:09,000 Speaker 3: Right, oh yeah, yeah. 394 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:10,520 Speaker 2: So at least trying to stay in the conversation and 395 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:12,400 Speaker 2: not you know, being so judgmental. 396 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:19,080 Speaker 3: Right right, all right, now, let this let's get to 397 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:23,120 Speaker 3: one of the most unbelievable stories that I have ever 398 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 3: seen on film. Girl in the Basement. It is inspired 399 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:34,040 Speaker 3: by true events. I mean, the story is it's almost unbearable. 400 00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:37,760 Speaker 3: The real crime happened in Austria, and the location was 401 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:40,040 Speaker 3: switched to the United States, and the real crime was 402 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:43,400 Speaker 3: Elizabeth Fritzel. When she was eighteen. Her father lured her 403 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:47,240 Speaker 3: into the basement, covered her mouth with an ether soaked cloth, 404 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:50,840 Speaker 3: and locked her in, where she would stay imprisoned for 405 00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 3: twenty four years. She would have seven children with her father, 406 00:21:56,080 --> 00:22:01,359 Speaker 3: one of whom dies now. She i'ved eighty five hundred 407 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:05,280 Speaker 3: and sixteen days in captivity with three of the children 408 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:09,120 Speaker 3: in the basement. How did you prepare yourself to tell 409 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:11,000 Speaker 3: the story? And I didn't realize this was your first 410 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:15,240 Speaker 3: directorial debut. I mean, it's a stunner. 411 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 1: It is. 412 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:19,240 Speaker 3: You did a phenomenal job with this movie, first of all, 413 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:22,280 Speaker 3: But so how did you prepare yourself to tell it? 414 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:24,280 Speaker 3: How did this come about? 415 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:29,040 Speaker 2: You know, I had been watching this Fritzal story. I 416 00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:31,840 Speaker 2: just I thought, exactly like what you said. I've never 417 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:35,520 Speaker 2: seen or heard of, or been reading about a crime 418 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:38,919 Speaker 2: that was worse. And I you know, I'm not an 419 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:42,000 Speaker 2: Ambulance Chaser. Even though these movies have their thing, but 420 00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:45,240 Speaker 2: at that time, I was just a person who just 421 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:47,320 Speaker 2: happened to see a story in the news and I thought, 422 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:50,080 Speaker 2: I can't this is the darkest thing I've ever seen 423 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:54,639 Speaker 2: in my life. Then when it was in development, I thought, 424 00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:58,359 Speaker 2: you know what God works in mysterious ways. You know 425 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:02,640 Speaker 2: this is I'm going to do this for her. I'm 426 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:08,200 Speaker 2: going to tell this story. And I just really began 427 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:11,760 Speaker 2: to fold in the romance, even though that wasn't entirely true. 428 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:17,199 Speaker 2: I wanted to bring in, you know, Hope and and 429 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:19,680 Speaker 2: Stephanie Scott, who I actually just saw last night. 430 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:22,200 Speaker 1: Oh so she plays the daughter. 431 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:23,959 Speaker 3: She's just astunnish. 432 00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:27,080 Speaker 2: And then we had auditioned Emma Myers, who hadn't yet 433 00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:30,399 Speaker 2: done Wednesday. So I think in some ways I'm a 434 00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:32,439 Speaker 2: beginning part of her beginning of her power. 435 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:35,560 Speaker 3: Who she was from Wednesday reps. Yeah, I know this actress. 436 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, she also was incredible. Everybody was incredible, Jollie Fisher, 437 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:43,480 Speaker 2: Judd Nelson, everybody, everybody. But I think it was about, 438 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:49,920 Speaker 2: you know, again, really finding the humanity in Stephanie's character 439 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:54,680 Speaker 2: in particular, and making her a great mother and building 440 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:57,560 Speaker 2: the world down in the basement to you know, to 441 00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:00,720 Speaker 2: make you not be in horror, but to to also 442 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:05,600 Speaker 2: be in it with her, Like it just became a reality. 443 00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:09,320 Speaker 2: It just became a horrible, horrible reality reality. And that's 444 00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:12,439 Speaker 2: how she was able to sustain herself survival. You know, 445 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:14,879 Speaker 2: she survived and she did whatever she had to do 446 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:17,880 Speaker 2: to survive. And then she did it even by being 447 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:20,040 Speaker 2: a good parent. And that's how they got out was 448 00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:23,800 Speaker 2: because one of the children became ill and she convinced him. Finally, 449 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:27,120 Speaker 2: this monster of a father, she convinced him to take 450 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:30,400 Speaker 2: the child to the hospital. And when the child got there, 451 00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:34,280 Speaker 2: they said, where is this mother. This child has not 452 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:39,160 Speaker 2: seen obviously a medical physician. Where is this mother? And 453 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:42,480 Speaker 2: that is how she and she was in the basement. 454 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:44,600 Speaker 2: She saw it on the news and she said, I'll go, 455 00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:48,760 Speaker 2: I'll go, and then she went and then she said. 456 00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 1: Help, Oh my god. And that's how it all came apart. 457 00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:56,640 Speaker 2: And it just I felt like, there's a woman, there's 458 00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:59,080 Speaker 2: a girl that's life was stolen from her, and I'm 459 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:01,120 Speaker 2: going to tell this story for her, for her. 460 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's it's it's really unbelievable, I mean, and the 461 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:12,879 Speaker 4: fact that I mean it being her own father, you 462 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:16,240 Speaker 4: really well wait, I was there was something I was 463 00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:19,200 Speaker 4: going to say while you're talking about her and actually mothering. 464 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:24,160 Speaker 3: It really shows you the the determination of the human spirit, right, 465 00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:27,920 Speaker 3: and how we all have a choice under any circumstances. 466 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:32,960 Speaker 3: She didn't just implode and I don't know, just lay 467 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:36,640 Speaker 3: there and not like it's kind of extraordinary that desire 468 00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:42,240 Speaker 3: to create a world for the children that is somehow magical, 469 00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:50,400 Speaker 3: is somehow safe, is somehow okay amidst this just unspeakable violence. 470 00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:54,119 Speaker 2: Well, and in the real story, it's the mother, really 471 00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:58,080 Speaker 2: is is it fault? Because the father had been accused 472 00:25:58,080 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 2: of rape at one point, and she turned to blind 473 00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:03,840 Speaker 2: eye to that accusation. He was degrading to her, and 474 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:07,480 Speaker 2: he had lascivious things going on, like he would travel 475 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:10,399 Speaker 2: to Thailand all the time and do crazy things and whatever. 476 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:15,480 Speaker 2: And had she paid attention and demanded something different, she 477 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:17,720 Speaker 2: might have been able to save her children, because what 478 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:21,119 Speaker 2: was happening was that daughter was becoming well, she was beautiful, 479 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:24,679 Speaker 2: she was becoming independent, and she was becoming a rebel. 480 00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:29,120 Speaker 2: And if they weren't in that situation, maybe it never 481 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:33,120 Speaker 2: would have happened, so he wanted to control her, and 482 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:35,920 Speaker 2: he was controlling to the mother in the whole situation. 483 00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:37,000 Speaker 1: The house was toxic. 484 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:39,400 Speaker 2: So again I think there's I'm hearing a theme as 485 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:40,040 Speaker 2: we're talking. 486 00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:43,040 Speaker 1: I want to tell I. 487 00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:46,880 Speaker 2: Want to tell responsible stories about generational abuse and it's 488 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:50,960 Speaker 2: you know, psychological deprivation when it's not dealt with, because 489 00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:53,199 Speaker 2: when it's not dealt with, it becomes cancerous and it 490 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:56,320 Speaker 2: destroys lives. Because there is a theme in all of 491 00:26:56,359 --> 00:27:00,600 Speaker 2: these And had this mother done things differently and even 492 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:04,200 Speaker 2: like these kids continually continually being put on her doorstep 493 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:06,679 Speaker 2: in a basket with a note attached with that he 494 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:11,560 Speaker 2: wrote himself about their daughter who was wild and doing 495 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:14,200 Speaker 2: wild things and had gotten pregnant, and like, oh here's 496 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:17,919 Speaker 2: another baby from our baby. No, they were his baby, 497 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:20,560 Speaker 2: and they raised a couple of them. 498 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:26,160 Speaker 3: I mean, how like aay, oh okay, so now we'll 499 00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:28,320 Speaker 3: just take care of her. I mean, Jolly Fisher, he 500 00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:31,840 Speaker 3: as well was wonderful. She was incredible, And I'm wondering 501 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:35,160 Speaker 3: if I that the choice of her, you know, having 502 00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:37,399 Speaker 3: a drink a lot of the time, having a little wine. 503 00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:41,200 Speaker 3: I feel like that says I'm tuning out a little 504 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 3: bit even you know, certainly, I'm sure she didn't imagine 505 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 3: the absolute war. I mean, I don't know what she 506 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:50,600 Speaker 3: this woman was thinking, but I feel like that was 507 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:56,000 Speaker 3: a really smart piece of the character to just sort 508 00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:59,680 Speaker 3: of suggest maybe I'm not quite you know, maybe I'm 509 00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:02,000 Speaker 3: using this to tune out to what I sure do. 510 00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:04,560 Speaker 2: And then it's also all about secrets, like, if you 511 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 2: really know the history of the Elizabeth Fritzel situation, he 512 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:11,280 Speaker 2: and his friend had spent a year redoing the basement 513 00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:15,119 Speaker 2: into living quarters for what I have no idea, No 514 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:17,320 Speaker 2: one ever lived, no one ever lived in, and no 515 00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:20,040 Speaker 2: one ever spoke about for all those years that that 516 00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:22,280 Speaker 2: space if you've seen the pictures, I mean, it was 517 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:24,760 Speaker 2: like made into a living space down there. 518 00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:26,000 Speaker 1: It's crazy. 519 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:28,280 Speaker 3: Wait did she never question, oh what happened? What have 520 00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:30,080 Speaker 3: you been doing in the basement? Where's that thing? 521 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:32,200 Speaker 1: And the friend that has a daughter missing? 522 00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:35,280 Speaker 2: You never questioned your friend saying, wait a second, what 523 00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:36,119 Speaker 2: did we just do? What? 524 00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:38,880 Speaker 1: What's all that down there that I helped you engineer 525 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:39,800 Speaker 1: and build out? 526 00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:41,120 Speaker 3: Oh my god? 527 00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:52,640 Speaker 1: Okay, scary. 528 00:28:57,680 --> 00:28:59,240 Speaker 3: So there was an article in the Guardian that says 529 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:03,360 Speaker 3: Josef fritzl began abusing Elizabeth when she was eleven. Do 530 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:06,440 Speaker 3: you know if that's true, and if so, why did 531 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:08,360 Speaker 3: you choose to leave that out of the film. 532 00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:10,080 Speaker 1: You know, I don't know if that's true. 533 00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:12,480 Speaker 2: And we have eighty seven minutes to tell a story, 534 00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:15,440 Speaker 2: and you know, I don't do like the biblical you know, 535 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,560 Speaker 2: from cradle to grave. You know, you've got to find 536 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:20,560 Speaker 2: I think as a filmmaker, you've got to find a 537 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:23,600 Speaker 2: singular sort of way in. It was hard enough telling 538 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,480 Speaker 2: a story of twenty four years, let alone going back 539 00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:27,360 Speaker 2: to the childhood. 540 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:30,120 Speaker 1: And I'm not often interested in. 541 00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:35,800 Speaker 2: Flashbacks as a vehicle in storytelling. So yeah, I think 542 00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:38,080 Speaker 2: this was the right way to do it. But there 543 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:41,240 Speaker 2: was word that there was that history, right. I don't 544 00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:42,320 Speaker 2: know for a fact, though. 545 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:45,600 Speaker 3: Was there a moment in the movie that still haunts 546 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:51,560 Speaker 3: you or a scene in particular that was really meaningful 547 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:52,360 Speaker 3: or memorable? 548 00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:57,680 Speaker 2: You know. I was asked to play a part in 549 00:29:57,720 --> 00:29:59,560 Speaker 2: that movie as well, and again I was sort of 550 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:02,040 Speaker 2: stepping back from the acting, but I thought, you know what, 551 00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:05,640 Speaker 2: I'll play this part. And it was the nurse who 552 00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:07,880 Speaker 2: she ran to, like I could get emotional. 553 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:13,240 Speaker 1: I felt like, yeah, m. 554 00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:17,000 Speaker 2: You know, just because I feel like, as a filmmaker, 555 00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:22,160 Speaker 2: you have a responsibility to particularly the victims. So to 556 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:24,760 Speaker 2: play the character that she ran to in the movie, 557 00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:27,320 Speaker 2: I was like, oh, you know, it's so many years 558 00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:29,000 Speaker 2: ago that I made that movie, and I'm still like 559 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:31,960 Speaker 2: taken by that because I you know, I may never 560 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:35,000 Speaker 2: meet Elizabeth Fritzl, but I do hope if she sees it, 561 00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:38,560 Speaker 2: she feels that I, you know, was trying to tell 562 00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:42,920 Speaker 2: a story that portrayed her in a deep way, that. 563 00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:49,240 Speaker 3: That scene is really really strong, really powerful. 564 00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:52,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, And what was I seen the other day on Instagram? 565 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:55,640 Speaker 2: I was seeing this stewardess who was walking past two 566 00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:58,480 Speaker 2: people and this woman flashed her leg and it had 567 00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:01,920 Speaker 2: help on it and she helped get this girl away 568 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:04,280 Speaker 2: from this captive. And I thought, you know, wow, that 569 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:06,600 Speaker 2: really is like that scene and girl in the basement 570 00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:11,280 Speaker 2: when she ran to me and hugged me so hard 571 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:15,000 Speaker 2: like and he was down the hall looking. 572 00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:18,840 Speaker 1: At me, and that was, you know, fictionalized. 573 00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:22,120 Speaker 2: But I think I did it like that because as 574 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:25,440 Speaker 2: a filmmaker, I felt a sense of responsibility that here 575 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:28,120 Speaker 2: I was telling this story. She was already out of 576 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:30,440 Speaker 2: the basement. She's already moved on with her life. But 577 00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:33,680 Speaker 2: I hoped if she saw the movie that she would 578 00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:35,160 Speaker 2: feel like I was protecting her. 579 00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:39,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, that she your character saw her felt she didn't 580 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:43,160 Speaker 3: have to say anything. Yeah, you just knew this girl 581 00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:45,280 Speaker 3: needs my protection and she is not okay. 582 00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:47,800 Speaker 2: And by the way, these tears sometimes happen on set 583 00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:51,600 Speaker 2: because these are very intense films. We've not talked about Husband, 584 00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:55,360 Speaker 2: Father Killer, but I will just say Jackie Cruz, the 585 00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:57,560 Speaker 2: journey she went on in that movie. I tell you, 586 00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:00,280 Speaker 2: scene after scene she would do these performances and I 587 00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:04,040 Speaker 2: would be by the monitor cry and she would be like, Liz, you're. 588 00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:07,840 Speaker 1: Crying on crying. What's happening? Yeah, you know, just really 589 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:09,280 Speaker 1: but it's heavy, heavy stuff. 590 00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:11,120 Speaker 2: Well, I'm the same thing with you know, the young 591 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:13,760 Speaker 2: actress who played Claudia and Devil on Campus. I mean, 592 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:17,959 Speaker 2: you're talking about actresses in these scenes coming to you 593 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:20,560 Speaker 2: as the director and being a female director and holding 594 00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:21,360 Speaker 2: space for them. 595 00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:23,960 Speaker 1: It can sometimes be very heavy. 596 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:24,640 Speaker 2: M h. 597 00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:27,360 Speaker 3: I mean I think that's a sign that you're doing 598 00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:31,120 Speaker 3: something meaningful and something strong. 599 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:33,400 Speaker 1: And that the actors are good, and that the actors 600 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:33,760 Speaker 1: are good. 601 00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:37,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, everybody is really and that they're going there, there's 602 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:40,640 Speaker 2: a sense of responsibility. Again, I say, like, not ambulance chasers, 603 00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:44,240 Speaker 2: not interested in doing gratuitous stories. I definitely love the 604 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:47,280 Speaker 2: true crime genre, but trying to do it with the purpose. 605 00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:51,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, did you so, was it important to you then 606 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:53,480 Speaker 3: to have that the movie end on a happy note? 607 00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:54,400 Speaker 1: Yeah? 608 00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:56,720 Speaker 2: I think that it is important to have these movies 609 00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:57,760 Speaker 2: end on a happy note. 610 00:32:57,800 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 1: I think that I'm not trying I'm not a. 611 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:02,960 Speaker 2: Astrophist trying to tell stories that are just so horrible 612 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:06,480 Speaker 2: and dark, and I'm not I'm not, you know, trying 613 00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:10,400 Speaker 2: to sensationalize anything. But I do want to tell stories 614 00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:13,600 Speaker 2: about the indomitable human spirit, because no matter what we're 615 00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:20,240 Speaker 2: going through, everybody's story, everybody is going through something always period, 616 00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:22,680 Speaker 2: end of story, whether it's their parents aren't well, or 617 00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:24,680 Speaker 2: they're having a bad day with their spouse, or they're 618 00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:26,200 Speaker 2: just whatever's happening. 619 00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:29,680 Speaker 1: So to be conscious of each other and. 620 00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:34,840 Speaker 2: To celebrate each other's strengths and our ability to rise yes, 621 00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:39,560 Speaker 2: to rise up, you know, from anything and absolutely anything. 622 00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:43,120 Speaker 3: I mean, she's an example. Do you know anything about 623 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:46,000 Speaker 3: the life that Elizabeth went on to live. It's see, 624 00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:48,120 Speaker 3: it was very hard for me to get any information. 625 00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:50,160 Speaker 1: She chose to really live a private life. 626 00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:53,000 Speaker 2: I mean, you can imagine they changed names like some 627 00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:57,200 Speaker 2: you know, because they I mean they were such an exposed, 628 00:33:57,400 --> 00:33:59,600 Speaker 2: you know family like how To and also one of 629 00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:01,440 Speaker 2: the people who helped her get out, she ended up 630 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:03,440 Speaker 2: in a relationship with I think for a long for 631 00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:05,800 Speaker 2: a while. So that was part of why I sort 632 00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:08,520 Speaker 2: of had this inspiration to add this like boyfriend, that 633 00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:11,880 Speaker 2: element into the movie that she did end up seeing 634 00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:15,759 Speaker 2: that was fictionalized. But she's a private person and I 635 00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:18,560 Speaker 2: think she does not want the stigma associated with her 636 00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:22,399 Speaker 2: her children, that their children of incest, right right, Yeah, 637 00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:24,799 Speaker 2: because that they can't then go on and live their lives. 638 00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:26,719 Speaker 2: And when they came out of the basement, they were 639 00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:27,680 Speaker 2: still young people. 640 00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:30,080 Speaker 1: The world of life. 641 00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:34,760 Speaker 3: Wife ahead of them, right. So he Joseph is in prison, 642 00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:37,760 Speaker 3: he's expected to die there, but then I read something 643 00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:40,840 Speaker 3: that he wants to reunite with his family and his wife, 644 00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:43,239 Speaker 3: reconcile with his wife and things that he will see them. 645 00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:45,680 Speaker 3: I mean, what do you think about that He's he's 646 00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:46,439 Speaker 3: mentally ill. 647 00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:50,600 Speaker 2: No, I think they should have, you know, put a 648 00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:53,480 Speaker 2: brick around his ankle and dropped him into the deepest ocean. 649 00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:58,759 Speaker 1: I don't know, I honestly, you know, I'm who am 650 00:34:58,800 --> 00:34:59,480 Speaker 1: I to judge? 651 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:05,640 Speaker 2: But that is the worst most evil person I've ever 652 00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:06,160 Speaker 2: heard of. 653 00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:08,480 Speaker 1: Agree? 654 00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:09,320 Speaker 3: I agree? 655 00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:12,320 Speaker 2: I mean, you know, if we talk about a serial 656 00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:14,480 Speaker 2: killer and they're going out and they're killing people, that's 657 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:17,200 Speaker 2: pretty bad. But when you are doing this to your 658 00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:21,640 Speaker 2: own child, it's it's an unimaginable crime. 659 00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:26,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, how do you personally protect yourself emotionally when you're 660 00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:27,800 Speaker 3: making these movies? 661 00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:30,960 Speaker 2: You know, I'm really I'm really all about the actors. 662 00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:34,160 Speaker 2: So once the work is done around the story and 663 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:37,160 Speaker 2: creating the story and producing the story with Kara, and 664 00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:39,360 Speaker 2: then we're off to the races with a network and 665 00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:42,160 Speaker 2: we're shooting it and filming it, I'm pretty moment to moment, 666 00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:44,560 Speaker 2: you know, I'm really in the scene with the actor, 667 00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:48,160 Speaker 2: really trying to architect the arc, you know, to keep 668 00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:52,440 Speaker 2: the suspense, to keep the thrill, to push for really strong, 669 00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:58,080 Speaker 2: big performances. And I love actors so much that I'm 670 00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:01,560 Speaker 2: more enthusiastic than crying by the monitor, although there are 671 00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:04,040 Speaker 2: sometimes scenes where your heart is just so ripped out 672 00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:08,440 Speaker 2: of your chest because you can't believe this even happened 673 00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:11,040 Speaker 2: in life, and then the actor elevates it so much 674 00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:14,399 Speaker 2: that you know, you can be pretty raw. But most 675 00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:16,279 Speaker 2: of the time I'm actually just like, I'm like a 676 00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:18,920 Speaker 2: player's coach. I'm like doing a round of applause for them, 677 00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:22,120 Speaker 2: because being myself, when I say at coaching, I'm like, 678 00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:23,879 Speaker 2: I'm like, that's what it is. 679 00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:24,799 Speaker 1: That's what it is. 680 00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:29,799 Speaker 3: So what do you hope that people carry with them 681 00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:35,239 Speaker 3: after watching this the dating app killer? Well, first in 682 00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:37,680 Speaker 3: the Girl in the Basement, and then each one will say, 683 00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:38,800 Speaker 3: each one the girl in the basement. 684 00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:41,759 Speaker 2: You know, interestingly, the Girl in the Basement does go 685 00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:44,680 Speaker 2: into more the family aspect of it. If there is 686 00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:48,840 Speaker 2: inappropriate behavior at home, if you are with an abusive 687 00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:52,400 Speaker 2: partner and you have children, get out, Just do whatever 688 00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:55,560 Speaker 2: you can to get out, because I think things like 689 00:36:55,640 --> 00:37:00,359 Speaker 2: that that are not sort of addressed or confronted will 690 00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:03,840 Speaker 2: they will become cancerous and things will get worse. 691 00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:06,799 Speaker 1: It's not maybe they will definitely get worse in whichever way. 692 00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:11,360 Speaker 2: So protect your children. Even if you're terrified, there is 693 00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:15,000 Speaker 2: help out there for you, ask for it. But above all, 694 00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:18,440 Speaker 2: even if you're a wounded person who's made bad decisions, 695 00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:22,200 Speaker 2: just get out, protect your children, and then start to 696 00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:25,279 Speaker 2: heal yourself. That is the girl in the basement, I 697 00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:28,759 Speaker 2: would say, devil on campus when you are responsible again 698 00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:31,680 Speaker 2: for young people, like institution, like a. 699 00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:33,200 Speaker 1: Colleges or a parent. 700 00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:38,360 Speaker 2: Again, it's about protecting your children, and that is a 701 00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:42,479 Speaker 2: responsibility that a college commits to a family when they 702 00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:47,280 Speaker 2: bring their child there. And Sarah Lawrence is a phenomenal college. 703 00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:48,000 Speaker 1: I loved it. 704 00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:51,920 Speaker 2: I just think that there have to be very strong 705 00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:54,960 Speaker 2: restrictions as to, you know, who can get access to 706 00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:58,920 Speaker 2: these kids that you're responsible for. And then the dating 707 00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:02,920 Speaker 2: app killer you know, so you know, I loved the 708 00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:05,720 Speaker 2: doc the Tinder Swindler. I thought that was so interesting 709 00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:08,279 Speaker 2: because I think it's it could happen to anybody. There's 710 00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:11,480 Speaker 2: no shame in sort of being duped by a love 711 00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:15,160 Speaker 2: bomber or being manipulated by somebody you meet online or whatever. 712 00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:17,840 Speaker 2: Just don't flush your life away, try to listen to 713 00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:20,520 Speaker 2: your instincts, and definitely don't meet people in. 714 00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:22,600 Speaker 1: Dark places without a plus one. 715 00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:25,920 Speaker 2: You know, make sure you sick, make sure yeah family 716 00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:27,760 Speaker 2: a couple of your interactions. 717 00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:31,080 Speaker 3: Oh, also, before we close up, I know you're a 718 00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:34,759 Speaker 3: huge supporter of RAIN, Rape, Abuse and Incest Networks, the 719 00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:39,000 Speaker 3: nation's largest anti sexual violence organization and operator of the 720 00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:42,680 Speaker 3: National Sexual Assault Hotline. And I know at the end. 721 00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:46,399 Speaker 1: Of The Girl and Thirteen you did it. Yeah. Yeah. 722 00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:48,239 Speaker 3: Is there anything more you want to say about RAIN? 723 00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:51,279 Speaker 2: I just want to say that, you know, RAIN is 724 00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:54,000 Speaker 2: there for you if you are in any of these 725 00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:57,280 Speaker 2: kinds of relationships, if you're terrified and you have nowhere 726 00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:00,279 Speaker 2: to go, this is an organization that is there for you. 727 00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:05,040 Speaker 2: And I think Lifetime again continues to responsibly tell these stories. 728 00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:09,479 Speaker 2: There's always a call to action, and I really hope 729 00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:13,640 Speaker 2: that people, if they're finding themselves witnessing these things, experiencing 730 00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:14,760 Speaker 2: these things. 731 00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:16,799 Speaker 1: That they reach out for help. There is help out 732 00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:17,279 Speaker 1: there for you. 733 00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:21,440 Speaker 3: Yes, okay, Well, The Girl in the Basement is streaming 734 00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:24,239 Speaker 3: on Hulu, Devil on Campus, The Larry Race story is 735 00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:28,160 Speaker 3: streaming on Netflix, and the dating app Killer, the Monica 736 00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:28,800 Speaker 3: White Story. 737 00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:33,719 Speaker 1: Enjoy. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. 738 00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:34,680 Speaker 3: Thank you. It's been great.