Speaker 1: Get it.
Speaker 2: Let's get it. LL cool J, my brother good. I
Speaker 2: want to set my intentions for this conversation before we
Speaker 2: get started. I want people to watch this conversation, and
Speaker 2: when it's over, I want them to say to themselves,
Speaker 2: damn objectively, regardless how they may feel personally, who's their
Speaker 2: personal favorites? Objectively, you can't have any top five greatest
Speaker 2: of all time discussions without mentioning LLL cool J.
Speaker 3: Yo, I take it. I take that all day.
Speaker 2: Man.
Speaker 3: Can I argue with that?
Speaker 2: And one of the reasons I say that is because
Speaker 2: you are by far hip hop's first major superstar. People
Speaker 2: could say you are a prototype for what became the
Speaker 2: formula for success in rap. You had the streets, you
Speaker 2: had the women, and you had songs for both of them.
Speaker 2: So with that said, why do you think L COOLJ
Speaker 2: isn't in those conversations?
Speaker 1: I would say, you know, first of all, I feel
Speaker 1: like I First of all, let me just say I
Speaker 1: feel appreciated, and I feel respected and I feel loved.
Speaker 1: I think that you know, any in any art form,
Speaker 1: in any genre, you know ultimately you know there are
Speaker 1: different dynamics at work when people hear people like so
Speaker 1: you know, the Internet ushered in a different came in
Speaker 1: during a different era, so it documented things on a
Speaker 1: different level. So some people who weren't there to necessarily
Speaker 1: witness certain things might not be aware. But my job,
Speaker 1: like is not to really harp on what people don't know,
Speaker 1: is to show them what they should know and teach
Speaker 1: them what they should know.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: So it's like, that's the whole point of me making
Speaker 1: new music, just to get out there, to let them
Speaker 1: see what it's like to have me on the court,
Speaker 1: so to speak. You know what I'm saying, to see
Speaker 1: me out there balling. And the difference is, you know,
Speaker 1: this isn't sports, this is art, and in art, you
Speaker 1: know it's about the mind, the soul, the emotions. You
Speaker 1: be connected to what you create. So you could do
Speaker 1: that at a high level at any point. And I
Speaker 1: think that's my that's my goal and my objective right now,
Speaker 1: show people that you can take a hiatus from something,
Speaker 1: do it, do something else, and then re emerge and
Speaker 1: do it.
Speaker 3: At a high level.
Speaker 1: So you know, we'll get to it, they'll learn most most.
Speaker 2: Critics will consider it risky though, because of your icon status,
Speaker 2: to release a new album so long.
Speaker 1: After your last one. What would you say, I'd say
Speaker 1: that's the whole point. Like, that's the fun part of it.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: It's like, listen, there is no great artists, great athlete,
Speaker 1: or great any anybody that's great at anything if you
Speaker 1: cannot be great if you're not willing to be vulnerable.
Speaker 1: And this vulnerability comes from having the strength and the
Speaker 1: courage to go after what it is that you want
Speaker 1: and risk looking foolish in the process.
Speaker 3: Lebron doesn't get the last shot.
Speaker 1: Steph Curry doesn't take the last shot if he's worried
Speaker 1: about his legacy. Right, Kobe don't take the last shot
Speaker 1: if he's worried about his legacy. Lebron stops playing three
Speaker 1: four years ago if he's worried about his legacy. But
Speaker 1: because he wants to push the envelope. You're having a conversation.
Speaker 1: Look at what this guy can do in year twenty,
Speaker 1: Look what he can do in year five, Right, you
Speaker 1: see what I'm saying. So to me, it's like, that's
Speaker 1: the fun of it. Like I love that challenge. I
Speaker 1: look like I am. That's what's that's what makes it
Speaker 1: worth it.
Speaker 3: You know what I mean?
Speaker 2: So, what is legacy the ll cool, Yo, I got it.
Speaker 3: You know what's funny, man? You know.
Speaker 1: Nobody gets a chance to come back and say, yo,
Speaker 1: correct my tombstone. You know what I mean?
Speaker 3: Like yo, yo, yes, that that's not what I meant.
Speaker 1: Naw. So it's like none of us really know what
Speaker 1: our legacy is because why do we know that? Because
Speaker 1: if you put a picture of a glass of water
Speaker 1: on the internet, they're gonna argue over that, right, And
Speaker 1: people rounded it. Oh, people used it to sustain life.
Speaker 1: People wanted plans with it, nine people. So I don't
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. What matters is what you do in
Speaker 1: the moment. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: What are you doing in the moment right now with
Speaker 3: your life? You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: So what I want to do is just maximize my potential.
Speaker 1: Then you let you let the world decide all that.
Speaker 1: There'll be generations after us that can have all them
Speaker 1: debates and all them conversations.
Speaker 2: To pop your shit a little bit though, put out
Speaker 2: of doubt because you see the top five list and
Speaker 2: there's people that came after you. They'll put on the
Speaker 2: top five list and it's almost like you know, they're
Speaker 2: discrediting you. In a in a sense, So you gotta
Speaker 2: care about the recognition.
Speaker 1: Well, I do care about the right. No, no, no, I
Speaker 1: definitely care about the recognition. No, no, absolutely, I just like, like,
Speaker 1: you know what you're saying. It's like sometimes you hear
Speaker 1: Floyd say, Yo, everybody's entitled to their opinion. That's really
Speaker 1: how I feel, like, I really don't care about that shit, man, Like,
Speaker 1: if that's what you like, that's what you like, baby,
Speaker 1: Like you know what I mean. Like my job is
Speaker 1: to touch the people who love L and who fuck
Speaker 1: with L, not to be worried about who messages with
Speaker 1: this one or that one, Like you know what I'm saying, Like,
Speaker 1: it doesn't, it doesn't affect my spirit on my vibe
Speaker 1: because if it did, listen, man, to get the way
Speaker 1: I've been in life and to get do the things
Speaker 1: out do, you gotta have thick skin, bro, Like you know,
Speaker 1: i'd i'd have been.
Speaker 4: At a ball with my thumb in my mouth and
Speaker 4: a blanky a long time ago if I was really
Speaker 4: worried about these lists and people's opinions, because nothing is
Speaker 4: ever gonna be perfect, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: So look, I think that history will shine kindly on me.
Speaker 1: You know that at the end of the day, like
Speaker 1: you gotta remember, like you're talking to look, death Jam
Speaker 1: had there was Death Jam Productions. The label was Party
Speaker 1: Times street Wise. They had a song by Tila Rock
Speaker 1: called It's Yours.
Speaker 3: I bought that. I bought that song, that.
Speaker 1: Song, I took it, wrote, made a demo centered into
Speaker 1: Rick Rubin, Me Russell and Rick. We ended up starting
Speaker 1: Death Jam, right. They they it was their label.
Speaker 3: I was the flagship.
Speaker 1: Artist, right, so everything that came after me, you know
Speaker 1: my first You know, you're talking to a guy whose
Speaker 1: first single drop to eighty four and people, and I'm
Speaker 1: still like relevant in the world globally.
Speaker 3: I can't. I can't complain.
Speaker 1: And if you think about everybody that came after Death Jam,
Speaker 1: out of death Jam on death Jam, like I mean,
Speaker 1: I basically ushered in the whole modern era of hip hop,
Speaker 1: right and grew up watching Flash and the Treacherous and
Speaker 1: the Crash Crew and the Feelers. Form was at those parts,
Speaker 1: like at their shows and seeing them and listening to
Speaker 1: the tapes and the blends and the mixes. So I've
Speaker 1: been a fan from day one and then helped usher
Speaker 1: in a new era as well, so I don't really
Speaker 1: have any beef. You know, I feel real good about
Speaker 1: my standing in this culture.
Speaker 2: You know, I wanted to ask you about Death Jam too, because,
Speaker 2: as you just mentioned, you were a staple at Death Jam,
Speaker 2: and I would always thought they should have renegotiated your
Speaker 2: contract to make.
Speaker 3: You more of an owner.
Speaker 1: But I catalog.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, okay, I.
Speaker 3: Own my catalog.
Speaker 1: When you see Mama Sitt knock you out in the movie,
Speaker 1: I licensed that, you know what I'm saying, like people,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 3: People, people are under depression. Oh boy, like listen man.
Speaker 2: Because that was the time back in the day artists
Speaker 2: were getting gotten.
Speaker 3: Nah, but see, not all artists. That speaks. That's not
Speaker 3: a broad general thing.
Speaker 1: That speaks to certain executives taking advantage of certain people.
Speaker 1: One thing I can say about Russell and Leo. Look
Speaker 1: and Russell, he didn't make a bad deal early. And
Speaker 1: then Leo, he drives a hard bargain, but he'll give
Speaker 1: it to you when you earn it and knows I
Speaker 1: can't front on the guy. People can say what they
Speaker 1: want about him, but at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: I do own my catalog, and I do you know,
Speaker 1: you know, have a huge interest, you know in what
Speaker 1: I do. You know what I mean. Yeah, there's other
Speaker 1: samples and different things, but I own all my stuff.
Speaker 3: So it's like I can't complain with that.
Speaker 2: The Kobe deal for you, Like, did they give you
Speaker 2: that because like, Okay, this was our franchise artist. This
Speaker 2: is the guy who put us on the map here
Speaker 2: to take all your masters and everything else.
Speaker 3: Well, it wasn't really that.
Speaker 1: It was I was at a point where I was
Speaker 1: my deal was up and we had you know, it
Speaker 1: was like we got to find a way to make
Speaker 1: it right, so and just our relationship and we just
Speaker 1: made a good deal and that was part of it.
Speaker 1: So you know, I'm I'm good, like you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, Like I really am in a good place
Speaker 1: in that way, you know what I'm saying. Not to
Speaker 1: mention all the other things that I do as well,
Speaker 1: so you know, I can't.
Speaker 2: We're gonna get into that. Yeah, do you feel slightly
Speaker 2: that it took so long for them to put you
Speaker 2: in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame?
Speaker 1: Not really, because I understand that a major part of
Speaker 1: my appeal, you know, especially in something especially on a
Speaker 1: commercial level, was geared towards women. It was black women,
Speaker 1: all women of all races, but it was a lot
Speaker 1: of black women, a lot of difference. And because of that,
Speaker 1: you know, you just got some dudes that you know,
Speaker 1: you know that ain't you know, they want you to
Speaker 1: you know, if you ain't burning the flag or you know,
Speaker 1: being a revel in a different way, they want to
Speaker 1: not necessarily give that. You know, everybody doesn't recognize the
Speaker 1: artistry that comes with that. They think it's like there's
Speaker 1: some kind of trick to that. But there you got
Speaker 1: to really make them songs.
Speaker 2: They don't see the value in it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you got to really write I Need Love.
Speaker 1: You have to really write around the way girl, Like,
Speaker 1: you really got to write these songs.
Speaker 3: You got to write lounge. You got to write doing it.
Speaker 1: You can't just you know, that doesn't just show up
Speaker 1: because you took your shirt off, like you you know,
Speaker 1: I take my shirt off. You know the song is
Speaker 1: bullshit When I took my shirt off like that. It
Speaker 1: doesn't work like that. Like, you actually have to write
Speaker 1: the songs, so you know what I mean. Like, so
Speaker 1: for some of them dudes in the Hall of Fact
Speaker 1: at that time, especially when you hear in retrospect, because
Speaker 1: that was an old regime. Remember that's not the new regime.
Speaker 1: The new regime, they're rocket you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: But that was another guy, and he had a whole
Speaker 1: nother mindset, so you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: That's interesting. So you're saying that they probably didn't respect
Speaker 2: the art like they should have because of your sex
Speaker 2: simple status. Yes, that's crazy because you hear that conversation
Speaker 2: from women, you don't really hear that from a man's perspective.
Speaker 1: Of course, it's real though, it's real. It's like you
Speaker 1: know there, you know, like it's just part of the game,
Speaker 1: right like at that time, Like in terms of those
Speaker 1: song you know what I'm saying, Like they want, you know,
Speaker 1: fight the power and only fight the power, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean respectfully, you know what I'm saying, Like
Speaker 1: they you know, just think about who got in and
Speaker 1: why with sex cells. Yeah, but that's not necessarily you know,
Speaker 1: let me let let's keep it.
Speaker 3: Really, if if.
Speaker 1: You got a dude that feels like he's living his
Speaker 1: life making a pinky promise, the last thing, the last
Speaker 1: thing he wants to do is put you know, the
Speaker 1: young bull and the you know on the frame.
Speaker 3: That's fantastic.
Speaker 1: Hey honey, Hey, hey honey, look at this guy. Let's uh,
Speaker 1: let's uh, let's keep him.
Speaker 2: Out of the Yeah, yeah, let's start.
Speaker 3: Uh yeah, let's not uh.
Speaker 2: You know, man, does it feel well?
Speaker 1: How?
Speaker 3: I love that remix?
Speaker 2: I'm grave. So you kept your shirt on mores when
Speaker 2: they a lot okay, been a.
Speaker 1: Lot easier, bro like like shirts on and you know
Speaker 1: then you were not the women. It's like whatever, you know,
Speaker 1: It's like, you know, like showed up to a cocktail
Speaker 1: party with your tuxedo opened at a six pack with
Speaker 1: your shirt. It probably won't go over well with some
Speaker 1: parts of the crowd, but you embraced the door like
Speaker 1: who's he?
Speaker 2: It is crazy, but you embraced the door like I
Speaker 2: always heard methhan Man say he shunned his sex symbol status.
Speaker 3: Youmbracey, God damn right. Absolutely I loved it. Yeah why not?
Speaker 3: I ain't no shame of mine.
Speaker 1: Listen, listen, man, When I grew up, you know, I
Speaker 1: grew up liking the girls, liking you know, you know.
Speaker 3: I thought, you know, that was our goal as kids.
Speaker 3: You know, we wasn't like in it to.
Speaker 2: Not have them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I wasn't to not have no, like you know,
Speaker 1: it wasn't like I was running around doing everything, but
Speaker 1: I definitely was looking and it was interested, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean.
Speaker 3: So that's the way I.
Speaker 2: Look at it, you know, I mean, you know, the
Speaker 2: feel strange that this generation may know you more from
Speaker 2: NCIS than your music.
Speaker 1: Actually it's an amazing thing because it's like it just
Speaker 1: it's proof that you could do anything, that you can
Speaker 1: reinvent yourself on so many different levels. And you know, look,
Speaker 1: I got two crowds, man, I got two crowds when
Speaker 1: it comes to me, to my audience musically, It's the
Speaker 1: don't call it a comeback crowd who absolutely knows what
Speaker 1: I do, and it's the he raps crowd.
Speaker 3: Right. I'm very aware of both of them.
Speaker 1: I know when somebody's looking at me, they're like, oh,
Speaker 1: he raps it, you know, Oh he hosted, I like
Speaker 1: it shop with, I love it all. It's like, but
Speaker 1: music is my first love, you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: Music is my first love. But nah, that doesn't because
Speaker 1: look at the end of the day, saying when you
Speaker 1: hear artists like bitching and moaning and crying and complaining
Speaker 1: about generations.
Speaker 3: Not knowing them It's like, man, make a rack it,
Speaker 3: you know, make some music.
Speaker 1: Then you got a problem with people not knowing you
Speaker 1: for something, then do something about it.
Speaker 3: Make some music. Wanna sit over your crown, ain't gotta know.
Speaker 1: And you know, art, the arts are kind of there
Speaker 1: is a what have you done for me lately? Factor
Speaker 1: that always plays into art as it moves through the
Speaker 1: through through the continuum of time, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: So there's gonna be certain generations that are not as
Speaker 1: aware if you're not current and if you don't put
Speaker 1: out current shit. So my job is lokoj is to
Speaker 1: put out a current album and give them a current
Speaker 1: idea of what I think artistically, which will cause them
Speaker 1: to look back at some of the things and go
Speaker 1: dig into Go google my shit and get into my
Speaker 1: older videos and get into my early stuff. They can
Speaker 1: get that history. But you gotta do some new shit.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying, Like, no excuses, you can't
Speaker 1: you know, you know, you know, like I said on
Speaker 1: one of my songs, on Passion, I was like, no excuses.
Speaker 1: You better better be easy, ruthless. You know, a bunch
Speaker 1: of paper tigers are toothless. You know that Tony Montana
Speaker 1: blueprint is useless. Some people ignore facts that Nigga in
Speaker 1: the Nigga and Scarface fell.
Speaker 3: On the map.
Speaker 1: We just act like we don't see that, you know,
Speaker 1: asking where the weed at eliminating mids when the speakers.
Speaker 3: Get the feedback, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Like it's just like you gotta you just gotta step
Speaker 1: into the ship that you do.
Speaker 3: Does that make sense?
Speaker 2: Absolutely? You just answer one of my questions. And I
Speaker 2: was gonna ask you about you know something Mefi Man
Speaker 2: recently said after a performance at Summer Jam, and he
Speaker 2: said the generation gap was too wide for him, and
Speaker 2: I was gonna ask you, do you ever feel like
Speaker 2: you need to make you feel the need to make
Speaker 2: music to appeal to this generation.
Speaker 1: No, because you have to. You have to make art
Speaker 1: that's true to you. Okay, you know it's true to you.
Speaker 1: I don't need like for those who understand the reference.
Speaker 1: I don't need the Golden Girls to be acting like
Speaker 1: Nicki Minaj.
Speaker 2: You know, let's not do that.
Speaker 1: Let's just not do that, you know, let's not go
Speaker 1: there with so ill don't need that. I don't need
Speaker 1: to get my little Uzi vert on and ship little
Speaker 1: yachty on for them.
Speaker 3: You know, I gotta be me and they'll they'll find it.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: Listen, at the end of the day, if I'm sixteen
Speaker 3: years old.
Speaker 1: Or if I'm nineteen, or if I'm twenty, the only way,
Speaker 1: the only way you gonna get my attention is by
Speaker 1: the person playing some shit. And that shit is hot
Speaker 1: to me. None of that other shit matters.
Speaker 3: The only the fuck what you did. I don't care
Speaker 3: how you did it.
Speaker 1: I don't care what you started, what you didn't start
Speaker 1: with you, how you Is that shit hot? If it's
Speaker 1: hot to me, I'm good, I'm in. If it ain't,
Speaker 1: I'm not fucking with it. It's that simple, And that's
Speaker 1: that's that's life, you know what I'm saying. So a
Speaker 1: lot of these are like like meth like, you know,
Speaker 1: that's my man.
Speaker 3: I love him. He's super nice. Is flow crazy?
Speaker 1: My thing with him is is that I get what
Speaker 1: he's saying. It was it was the station's job to
Speaker 1: kind of think about that when they were curating it,
Speaker 1: so that it's seamless to help him out. You know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. You gotta put the p you gotta
Speaker 1: line the.
Speaker 3: Pieces up right. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: You gotta line them pieces up right because that audience
Speaker 1: could get into their music, but they have to It
Speaker 1: has to be sandwiched the right way and presented the
Speaker 1: right way to give the audience an opportunity to rack
Speaker 1: with them, because this shit is dope. If look if
Speaker 1: Mick Jagger can run around at eighty years old and
Speaker 1: have four generations in his show, like even me with
Speaker 1: my Force Tour, I'm running around. I got three four
Speaker 1: generations in the crowd. But those kids were introduced to
Speaker 1: the music by somebody. It was laid out for them
Speaker 1: a certain way. We did the Grammy fiftieth anniversary. We
Speaker 1: had Glow Riller and Little Baby on the same stage.
Speaker 1: Republic Enemy, Run, DMC, and Flash. It's doable. It's all
Speaker 1: about how you do it, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: It's about execution like anything else, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: Whatever a time you were disheartened by the state of.
Speaker 1: Hip hop, well yeah, I would say I would say
Speaker 1: there was a moment when I felt like right before
Speaker 1: I started rock the bells and really started, you know,
Speaker 1: like because people have to realize like this.
Speaker 3: Whole time timeless resurgence that people are feeling.
Speaker 1: You know, that's because I put it on my back
Speaker 1: with Rock the Bells and Rock the Bell's Radio and
Speaker 1: went out there and say, you know, I'm gonna throw festivals,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do things. I'm gonna lift these acts up,
Speaker 1: and those who are open and allow themselves to receive
Speaker 1: the blessing will be lifted up.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: So I felt like our music was, our culture was
Speaker 1: being commoditized, you know what I'm saying. I felt like,
Speaker 1: you know, if Mick Jackie can be respected, and if
Speaker 1: Bruce Springstein can be respected, then so can Rock Kim,
Speaker 1: and so can Chuck d and so can you know,
Speaker 1: countless others, Queen Las, you name them.
Speaker 3: And so.
Speaker 1: That was a moment. But I did something about it. See,
Speaker 1: I'm a big believer in you know, don't talk about it,
Speaker 1: be about it, mint and if you have an issue,
Speaker 1: if you got something that's a problem to you, address
Speaker 1: that shit.
Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: Dudes, be you know, crying and bitching and morning then
Speaker 1: go home and sleep, you know, get high, smokes wig,
Speaker 1: cross the motor. Next day, get high again, cross the ball.
Speaker 1: It's like, Nah, if you got a problem, do something
Speaker 1: about it. So I did something about it, and I
Speaker 1: think that it really works. It led to all of
Speaker 1: the things you see from you know, you know, draying them,
Speaker 1: all of them rocking and killing the super Bowl to
Speaker 1: all these artists and this research is you see it,
Speaker 1: you know, different artists doing all these things that all
Speaker 1: emanated from that decision that I made with Rock the Bells.
Speaker 1: So again you're welcome, you know what I'm saying. But
Speaker 1: that was the vibe, you know what I mean, Do
Speaker 1: something about it. If you have an issue, and that's
Speaker 1: in life in general. If you find you passionate about
Speaker 1: something or angry or frustrated about something, lean into that shit.
Speaker 3: That's your calling.
Speaker 2: Let's ex found on that because I had a question
Speaker 2: about Rock the Bells. Man, when you look back at
Speaker 2: the version of yourself who recorded the song rock to Bells,
Speaker 2: and now you look at the man you are today
Speaker 2: and the Rock the Bells brand you created that you
Speaker 2: were just talking about the demand in that booth recording
Speaker 2: the song Rock the Bells back in the eighties. Envision
Speaker 2: this hell no, okay, he don't know, Well, what's the
Speaker 2: connection between the two, Like, why did you chose to
Speaker 2: use that song title for this brand above all all
Speaker 2: other songs.
Speaker 1: Well, a few, a few times, a few things. It
Speaker 1: was a few things. First of all, you know they
Speaker 1: do back then. He just wanted some new sneak and
Speaker 1: some cars and you know, some jewelry I didn't want.
Speaker 1: I was very simple, pretty easy to you know, maybe
Speaker 1: a little red lobster.
Speaker 2: Or something that was fine dining back in the day.
Speaker 3: Though the finest, Yeah, it was the finest.
Speaker 1: They might have been playing hockey with the steak in
Speaker 1: the kitchen, but we felt great about the ship, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. But as far as uh, why
Speaker 1: that name, It started off with those guys who originally
Speaker 1: had the Rock the Bells festival. Originally they had they
Speaker 1: took my song. You know, a lot of things come
Speaker 1: for me, like Rock the Vote.
Speaker 3: That was Rock the Bells. You know a lot of
Speaker 3: things come from.
Speaker 1: So so they those guys they had Rock the.
Speaker 3: Bells and then so that was cool. I didn't say nothing.
Speaker 3: I left alone.
Speaker 1: And then then one day they caught me up and
Speaker 1: they offered me, you know, let's just let's just call
Speaker 1: it ten dollars for a show.
Speaker 3: Let's just call it that.
Speaker 2: I ape the perform in the show called Rock the Bells.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and when they when that when that when when
Speaker 1: my team told me that I was looking at the phone,
Speaker 1: I said, I want my IP back. It just it
Speaker 1: fucked me up. It was like it just it rubbed
Speaker 1: me wrong, you know what I mean. So I just
Speaker 1: went and took the I P back.
Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying. I said, yeah, let me
Speaker 3: get that, and then I said, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Then I said, yo, let me you.
Speaker 3: Know, motherfucking fucking out of here.
Speaker 1: So, uh so I I took it back and then
Speaker 1: we started rolling with it. So that's really the real
Speaker 1: reason why it ended up being that. So it could
Speaker 1: have been any song, but that my inspiration came from
Speaker 1: that first first I felt like, yo.
Speaker 3: Like listen, it's kind of like.
Speaker 1: You know, like you know, people take kindness for weakness
Speaker 1: and sometimes they take leniency for stupidity.
Speaker 3: I'm being lenient with you. So you think I'm stupid?
Speaker 2: Yeah you know what I mean that they're gonna call
Speaker 2: you this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're really a sucker, Like you know,
Speaker 1: I kind of thought you were, but now yeah, let
Speaker 1: me call you in. So I was like, you know what,
Speaker 1: I took it back. So anyway, I say that to say,
Speaker 1: that's why it ended up being rocked the bells. But
Speaker 1: my desire to lift up those other artists and to
Speaker 1: see them respecting and elevated that came from me, you
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, and lifting that up, And obviously
Speaker 1: the song was you know my shit, you know, So
Speaker 1: that's what it was.
Speaker 2: It's impossible to talk about you as just the hip
Speaker 2: hop artists in regards the people who have helped the
Speaker 2: culture move forward because of all the success you've had,
Speaker 2: you know, in television and in film. So how important
Speaker 2: was your appearance and Crush Groove to your career launching
Speaker 2: to another level and taking hip hop to another level?
Speaker 3: So Crush grew that the movie.
Speaker 1: The film, it was about Russell's life and run Demse's life,
Speaker 1: and it was hugely important.
Speaker 3: First of all, the only reason there was two things.
Speaker 1: First of all, I overslept for my I Can't Live
Speaker 1: without my radio video because I was hanging out all
Speaker 1: night doing so I had a show. I had a show,
Speaker 1: so I didn't wake up in the morning, so Russell's
Speaker 1: screaming and all that, so the.
Speaker 3: Video didn't happen. Then after that. I wasn't even supposed
Speaker 3: to be in that movie. In the in the movie
Speaker 3: Crush Crew, I was an extra.
Speaker 1: I went down there, my man and Cornell may he
Speaker 1: rest in peace. You tell me yo, go down there
Speaker 1: every day, go down to the set. I'm like, you
Speaker 1: know what, Yeah, you're right, because I'm you know, I
Speaker 1: had left home when I was sixteen. I you know,
Speaker 1: my grandmother didn't understand me pursuing my music. I'm sleeping
Speaker 1: on the train. I'm like, you know, I got my
Speaker 1: green bags on the train.
Speaker 3: I'm riding around trying to figure out what to do next.
Speaker 1: Then I went and so I was going down to
Speaker 1: the set every day because I you know, it was
Speaker 1: either that or stay in the basement with a bunch
Speaker 1: of roaches. I was like, fuck it, let me go
Speaker 1: down there the set every day. So I was going
Speaker 1: down there this set, and one thing left led to another.
Speaker 1: I'm down there, you know what I'm saying, talking this
Speaker 1: and that, and then finally they gave me a little part.
Speaker 1: I was talking that shit and the rest is history.
Speaker 1: It launched me because it, you know, it was like
Speaker 1: having a national video on a national platform, so it
Speaker 1: would be the equivalent of whatever you can think. Think
Speaker 1: of now as a national platform for your first visual,
Speaker 1: for people to see you first the first time, and
Speaker 1: you know, it blew up from there. The album ended
Speaker 1: up going platinum and you know, good things happened. Absolutely
Speaker 1: it worked out for everybody.
Speaker 2: When you think about movies and music, what's your favorite
Speaker 2: movie project of your career?
Speaker 3: My favorite movie hum probably Into Deep in Deep Blue Sea.
Speaker 2: Loved In Too Deep Classic, I told you that before. Yeah,
Speaker 2: God is very underrated black movie villain.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, he's like you know you talk about old
Speaker 1: dog Bishop, Oh God? To put God in that oh
Speaker 1: yeah he was, Yeah, it was it was real. Just
Speaker 1: everybody should check that one out Into Deep Yeah, it
Speaker 1: was crazy.
Speaker 2: Now let's get into the album, Spirit of Cyrus.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 2: The album's called Force, but the intro Spirit of Sirrus.
Speaker 2: First of all, you know you addressed police brutality out
Speaker 2: the Gate. Who is Cyrus and what inspired you to
Speaker 2: address the injustice cops display the black people right out
Speaker 2: the gate?
Speaker 1: Okay, so the name of the album is the Force
Speaker 1: is an acronym, right, frequency is a real creative energy
Speaker 1: and Cyrus, you know, I mean people could go into
Speaker 1: history with it. But we were talking really about you know,
Speaker 1: the Warriors and Cyrus and this guy who was trying
Speaker 1: to bring all of these people together and see good
Speaker 1: things happen in his community, even though it was coming
Speaker 1: from him being a gang leader, him being all of
Speaker 1: these different things, and you know, he ended up going out.
Speaker 3: Now, that was a metaphor for the guy that the.
Speaker 1: Story was based on, because I was inspired to write
Speaker 1: the song based on a guy named Christopher Dorner. He
Speaker 1: was an LAPD cop who felt like he was being
Speaker 1: a pressed And the reason why I got into the
Speaker 1: song is because when I was doing NCIS it should
Speaker 1: be people at high levels of law enforcement. I had
Speaker 1: some friends at high levels because I did the show
Speaker 1: for so many years. This dude called me up. He's like, yo,
Speaker 1: el or Todd, Yo, what's up. Don't come outside. I'm like,
Speaker 1: don't come outside.
Speaker 3: The fuck that I do? Right, I ain't do nothing.
Speaker 3: He's like, nah, you don't understand.
Speaker 1: And he sent me a picture of Christopher Donna and
Speaker 1: when I saw it, and he said, look, they're looking
Speaker 1: to take this guy dead or alive, and it might
Speaker 1: not be alive, so don't.
Speaker 3: Come out because you could be mistaken for him.
Speaker 1: When I saw the picture, I realized how real that was,
Speaker 1: and so I went down the rabbit hole. And then
Speaker 1: I ended up writing a song because I knew that
Speaker 1: there were people that would relate to both sides of
Speaker 1: that story.
Speaker 3: And I said, you know what, I'm going to write
Speaker 3: this song. And I was inspired.
Speaker 1: Me and me and Tip, Me and Q Tip were
Speaker 1: in the studio and he had all of these wild
Speaker 1: synths and these this track that sounded crazy, and I
Speaker 1: just ended up writing that song and the rest is history.
Speaker 3: But it's a it's a it's true.
Speaker 1: It's based on a true event, and it was inspired
Speaker 1: by true events. And it was you know, a dude
Speaker 1: who just who had had enough and he exploded and
Speaker 1: you know, he was like addressing police brutality, blue on
Speaker 1: blue brutality, like all of it.
Speaker 3: And so I wrote the.
Speaker 2: Song, do you have anybody doing any pushback?
Speaker 1: Like no?
Speaker 2: Hell love? That might affect what you got going on
Speaker 2: in Holland would that might affect what you got going
Speaker 2: on in television?
Speaker 1: You can't, you know, say that about the police. Well,
Speaker 1: I got to be true to the art on this one.
Speaker 1: It's not like I was condoning or pushing it away.
Speaker 1: I was just letting be in a channel to the art.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. It doesn't invite, it doesn't
Speaker 1: incite a person one way or the other.
Speaker 3: It's art. It's like a painting.
Speaker 1: It's up to you to look at it and see
Speaker 1: or hear what you want to hear. You know, obviously,
Speaker 1: I you know, I played law enforcement for years. But
Speaker 1: I've also had bad experiences too as a kid growing up.
Speaker 1: So it's both right, So I think the song addresses both.
Speaker 1: And I think that you know, anybody that's honest and
Speaker 1: objective could just listen to it.
Speaker 3: It is what it is, like, It's a song.
Speaker 2: How much responsibility to do artists have the address social issues?
Speaker 3: I don't think.
Speaker 1: I don't think that's an artist is an artist is not.
Speaker 1: That's not a prerequisite. That's just like saying, you know,
Speaker 1: when when you know, when Michael Angelo sculpted David, did
Speaker 1: he have a response.
Speaker 3: Ability to deal with men's health? You know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Because they got to do neicked and do standing in
Speaker 1: neked like he's on. Michael Angelo has no addressment, Like
Speaker 1: you know, artists see what people fail to realize is
Speaker 1: creating art that is popular doesn't necessarily mean that you
Speaker 1: have evolved in other areas and are necessarily inspired or
Speaker 1: educated by or in terms of other areas. You know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. So you gotta let an artist be
Speaker 1: an artists. And if you're gonna have people out there
Speaker 1: who are very socially conscious, who care about this stuff,
Speaker 1: and they will appeal to certain people, but you can't
Speaker 1: just say it's your responsibility.
Speaker 3: That doesn't work because that's not just either. You know
Speaker 3: what I'm saying. You gotta let people be who they are.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: You know that's like you know, like saying, like you know,
Speaker 1: you can't put red in your hair because.
Speaker 3: You have people that are triggered by red.
Speaker 1: You can't really live your life like that, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean?
Speaker 3: Son?
Speaker 1: I think artists do should do what they really feel
Speaker 1: for real, like but what they really feel like This
Speaker 1: album is what I really feel like. I wasn't trying
Speaker 1: to go commercial. I'm not trying to like this ship
Speaker 1: is you know what I wanted what I felt inspired
Speaker 1: to make, you know.
Speaker 2: A Saturday Night Special to record with Ross and Fat Joe.
Speaker 2: It sounds like you were dressing people's egos.
Speaker 3: I want I want to know what's the.
Speaker 2: Lesson to be learned in those verses, and did you
Speaker 2: have particular people in mind when you were writing those raps?
Speaker 1: Well if the songs, well, look, the the verses for
Speaker 1: me were definitely archetypes. And you know, you do have
Speaker 1: the dude who's uh, who's greedy and extra sensitive and
Speaker 1: pretends not to be offended when he really is, and
Speaker 1: you have to watch out for that when you're growing
Speaker 1: up or when you're in a boardroom, or when you're
Speaker 1: trying to you know, pass the ball when you you know,
Speaker 1: in law school or whatever it is you pledging. It
Speaker 1: don't matter like you're gonna have people like that. You're
Speaker 1: gonna have the dad devil who has to be the
Speaker 1: center of attention or they're uncomfortable. You have that person
Speaker 1: and they have that Ndia spirit in them all. Whatever
Speaker 1: it is that you got to watch out for, you're
Speaker 1: gonna have that. You're gonna have different people. But the
Speaker 1: song is really about integrity, not moral judgment, not saying
Speaker 1: people got to be perfect and shit, but just integrity,
Speaker 1: like saying what you mean and meaning what you say.
Speaker 1: And you know people say standing on business, Well that's
Speaker 1: what it's really about. You know what I'm saying and
Speaker 1: being solid, and so that's what the song really addresses.
Speaker 1: And then what Joe and Rick do is they give
Speaker 1: you examples of different types of characters that say different
Speaker 1: types of things. And so Joe will address it one way,
Speaker 1: and Rick is showing you an example of that type
Speaker 1: of a character.
Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: I chose to give you the lessons that are to
Speaker 1: be learned from those characters.
Speaker 2: And that's kind of what the song is. I like
Speaker 2: Black Hold a Lot, Thank you. I think you should
Speaker 2: put that out on June teenth. But you know on
Speaker 2: Black Hole you said the only crossover you respect is Kyrie. Yeah,
Speaker 2: what would you say to people who said you crossed
Speaker 2: over them?
Speaker 1: I would say they're right, and I would say it happened,
Speaker 1: but it was never intentional.
Speaker 3: It was organic. It was organic. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: It's like kind of like and the reason like you
Speaker 1: look at a Kyrie, or you look at a Jordan,
Speaker 1: or you look at a Lebron. They did cross over,
Speaker 1: but they crossed over doing what they love. They crossed
Speaker 1: over doing what's true to them. They didn't pretend to
Speaker 1: be somebody else. You know what I'm saying they didn't come,
Speaker 1: and you know, Magic didn't come and painted like he
Speaker 1: was Loarry Bird and shit to crossover, it's like he
Speaker 1: was magic, you know what I mean. So that's my thing,
Speaker 1: Like my thing is, you got to be true to
Speaker 1: who you are man, you know what I'm saying. Whatever
Speaker 1: that is, you got to stand on that. Be yourself,
Speaker 1: you know, like that old Oscar Wild quote, be yourself.
Speaker 1: Everybody else is already taken. That's real shit. So yeah,
Speaker 1: that's that's what I meant, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I did cross over absolutely on thousand percent
Speaker 1: way over like Silphead Ladies in Montana. I love that show,
Speaker 1: but I was doing what I loved, you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying for sure.
Speaker 2: And I also liked the song black Hole just because
Speaker 2: it's so black. But I remember I saw you on
Speaker 2: the shop and you were saying, you know, one of
Speaker 2: the reasons you reached out to the Q tip because
Speaker 2: you're working on the album with Dre. You reached out
Speaker 2: the Q tip because you said you really wanted like
Speaker 2: a black, black Black and the black black album. So
Speaker 2: it made me wonder, like, what wasn't Dre giving you
Speaker 2: in terms of Blackness.
Speaker 1: Oh no, no, no, Dre gave me everything. What it
Speaker 1: was was my songwriting wasn't up to Paul when I
Speaker 1: was working with Dre.
Speaker 3: Dre gave me some.
Speaker 1: Dre gave me some tracks and some so we got
Speaker 1: so we got like forty joints.
Speaker 3: It's just my writing.
Speaker 1: I didn't feel like my writing was meeting Dre where
Speaker 1: it needed to be, and so before even though I
Speaker 1: did call Tip and got with him, in between that time,
Speaker 1: I was back in the gym working on my jump shot. Okay,
Speaker 1: I was working on my pen game. I was looking
Speaker 1: analyzing my writing. I had to learn how to rap again.
Speaker 1: I had to learn how to rap again. Wow, you
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. I had to because remember the
Speaker 1: game changes, it shifts, it evolves. So the dribble that
Speaker 1: was fancy, the Tim Hardaway dribble that was fancy at
Speaker 1: one time and he's amazing, it's different from the Kyrie
Speaker 1: dribble that's fancy today. Things evolved, so the same with writing,
Speaker 1: and when you when you're doing hip hop, you have
Speaker 1: to respect the evolution of the game. So I had
Speaker 1: to go back and relearn, making sure them couplets were right,
Speaker 1: making sure that wordplay was right, making sure those narratives
Speaker 1: were correct, making sure that I was expressing myself right.
Speaker 3: And once I worked on that in a real serious.
Speaker 1: Way, then I got with Tip and the rest is history,
Speaker 1: and we made this amazing body of work that I
Speaker 1: feel really good about.
Speaker 2: So when you revisited to doctor.
Speaker 1: Dre, one hundred percent trade my man's you know, he
Speaker 1: FaceTime me the other day. Man, absolutely, one hundred percent.
Speaker 1: I just I just wasn't ready. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: He he always that's my men. You know what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: Like he always delivers. It's just I'm not gonna put
Speaker 1: him in a position, you know what I'm saying where
Speaker 1: I'm not all the way there and I'm not giving
Speaker 1: him the best. I'm not taking full advantage of our
Speaker 1: creative relationship, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: I value our creative relationship.
Speaker 1: Too much for me to be writing some some some
Speaker 1: lame shit, some ship that I think is lame and
Speaker 1: it's not meeting you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: How do you get to that level of self awareness,
Speaker 2: the way you can look at your wraps and be like, yo,
Speaker 2: this ship is wack.
Speaker 3: Man.
Speaker 2: I can't see too many people doing that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you got a lot of people walking out the
Speaker 1: house and outfits when they need to be doing that ship.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying, Like, Yo, you gotta like, honey,
Speaker 1: you see that ship right, Like like people like your
Speaker 1: dude walking out he got the camel toe and shit
Speaker 1: like you know, the fucking moose knuckle.
Speaker 3: It's like, oh, loose some JESU bro saw yourself you left?
Speaker 1: Yeah, before I left the house, I was like, yo, ma,
Speaker 1: this is some moose knuckle shit. Let me you know
Speaker 1: this is looking crazy. I'm bending over like my pants
Speaker 1: are ripped.
Speaker 2: And anybody that tells you are you just can hear
Speaker 2: it yourself.
Speaker 3: You gotta listen to it. You gotta be honest.
Speaker 1: See, I make two types of projects, you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying. Like I said before, I make shit in
Speaker 1: a vacuum where I'm just kind of experimenting for.
Speaker 3: Me, and I make cultural albums. I was looking to
Speaker 3: make a cultural album. I wasn't.
Speaker 1: I didn't want to get with Dre and do my
Speaker 1: experimental thing, because my experimental thing is never the records
Speaker 1: that are appreciated by the culture. They're never the ones
Speaker 1: that are asked, but they as an artist. They make
Speaker 1: me feel good. So it's really a little weird thing
Speaker 1: I do. And most of the time that's why after
Speaker 1: I do a really really great album, I go do
Speaker 1: some weird shit and that's how I work. That being said,
Speaker 1: I wanted to make a cultural album this time, so
Speaker 1: I had to be writing.
Speaker 2: You got a song called thirty Decemblers. You know, most
Speaker 2: people talk about how many summers they got. You said
Speaker 2: you had thirty Decembers.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I was away a long time. I was
Speaker 1: away from New York a long time, and I went
Speaker 1: back during the pandemic. Right. I put the black mask on,
Speaker 1: I got the hoodie on, I got the shades on,
Speaker 1: I got tyms all black. I'm running around like probably
Speaker 1: look like a stick up kid or something, right, Like,
Speaker 1: they don't know what's going on. But I got to
Speaker 1: go everywhere. I was all in the projects. I was
Speaker 1: up in the pink houses. I was places they didn't
Speaker 1: even know it was me. I'm running around in Coney Island,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 3: And I filmed that.
Speaker 1: I documented on the ground and I got inspired. So
Speaker 1: I wrote thirty Decembers, you know, being on the subway
Speaker 1: and everything I said in the song, like, you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. The lady sitting next to me don't
Speaker 1: want to move her stuff. She don't want to let
Speaker 1: me sit down, afraid of how I get down. Ain't
Speaker 1: dealing with that shit, now, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Like all that stuff I said is really what I
Speaker 1: went through, you know, and it was deep because the
Speaker 1: one thing you forget about in life, you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying, When you like, even if you got a
Speaker 1: good job, you forget about danger, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: You forget that danger exists. You forget that there's pissy elevators.
Speaker 1: You forget that there's people sleeping on the floor dodging bullets.
Speaker 1: You forget that there's people swallowing vics because they can't
Speaker 1: go to a hospital or going to the emergency room
Speaker 1: because they don't feel good. You forget about all that shit,
Speaker 1: And that disconnection is part of the reason why artists
Speaker 1: aren't able to really give the people what they want.
Speaker 1: They start rapping about fucking grateful panna.
Speaker 2: Right So so thirty symbol symbolizes the screets in New
Speaker 2: York City and how.
Speaker 1: Long it it been since I really was home for real,
Speaker 1: not visiting the city, not visiting the city in the suv,
Speaker 1: not visiting the city and saying, Yo, I'm from here.
Speaker 3: No, that ain't what I'm talking about.
Speaker 1: I'm talking about really, when's the last time you really
Speaker 1: sat on the fucking council?
Speaker 3: Was like this shit smell funny, you know what I mean?
Speaker 3: Like this smelled funny in this motherfucker.
Speaker 1: Or when you walk in the hallway and there's so
Speaker 1: many people cooking in the projects, the fucking hallway smells
Speaker 1: like God damn tie Italian Irish soul. Fucking your nose
Speaker 1: is exploding with the fucking all these smells because it's
Speaker 1: all this hooded that.
Speaker 3: Type of shit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think people are aware, especially I know
Speaker 2: this generation not, and probably just a lot of people
Speaker 2: in the industry. On you came up in a time
Speaker 2: in NYC where rappers was running with real people. Let's
Speaker 2: just leave it at that, real real the hustles, yeah,
Speaker 2: the killings, everything.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: What did you take from your time spent on blocks
Speaker 2: and eat flash flat Bush with hustlers like George Chang?
Speaker 1: Oh man, you know about George Wow stretch my man
Speaker 1: stretched from Brooklyn.
Speaker 3: May he rest in peace. It's so funny. Man.
Speaker 1: I used to go out to Brooklyn with with Stretch
Speaker 1: all the time. He had his Goal one ninety evens
Speaker 1: and like even when I had Rock the Bells. I
Speaker 1: remember I was playing Rock the Bells for a bit
Speaker 1: of car time. Du was like, we pulled up on
Speaker 1: this trew. He's like, yo, it's my man l He
Speaker 1: wanted to know if you think he should make this
Speaker 1: a record.
Speaker 3: He played it for him.
Speaker 1: He was like, yo, shit is hot.
Speaker 3: So me and Stress were real cool.
Speaker 1: I really hung a lot with with A Z and
Speaker 1: Rich and I'll poll with those guys because of my
Speaker 1: man Chuck. You know, I used to go uptown, so
Speaker 1: I used to be on one three two all the time.
Speaker 1: And so those are the guys like the paid in
Speaker 1: Full movie, like like like the Paid in Full movie
Speaker 1: guys were my real friends. And I was with him
Speaker 1: every day. So when I did like walking with a
Speaker 1: Panther and you know with the jewelry with the diamonds
Speaker 1: and all that shit, like that's why I was with
Speaker 1: every day. So it was like that definitely rubbed off
Speaker 1: on me in terms of wardrobe, my mindset. I mean,
Speaker 1: even songs like Saturday Night Special it still influences that
Speaker 1: mindset because you learn how to move, you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying, Like, you learn that if you really, really
Speaker 1: really want to survive in the world.
Speaker 3: Don't try to be a tough guy.
Speaker 1: Like that tough guy shit don't really fly because somebody's
Speaker 1: gonna test that shit all day long. You're much better
Speaker 1: off just having manners. I didn't say be soft. I
Speaker 1: didn't say don't defend yourself. I didn't say don't do
Speaker 1: what you got to do if there's a problem. I said,
Speaker 1: don't try to be a tough guy, you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying. So that was the thing, like just understanding that.
Speaker 1: And you know, those guys being you know, maybe two
Speaker 1: three years older than me, four years older than were
Speaker 1: just old.
Speaker 3: Enough to kind of mentor me.
Speaker 1: So it's like you know, coming out of queens, like
Speaker 1: from age you know, late like sixteen seventeen, like seventeen
Speaker 1: early maybe late sixteen, early seventeen, all the way to
Speaker 1: like early you know, twenties or whatever. I was hanging
Speaker 1: around for as long as they were around. I was
Speaker 1: hanging with these guys and learning the ins and outs
Speaker 1: of life. And it's not just all like crime and
Speaker 1: criminal shit and all that negative shit that people always
Speaker 1: think about, and also life lessons in it about manhood,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, and about how to be
Speaker 1: honorable when you're moving around, and how to treat.
Speaker 3: People, how to respect people so that you if you see.
Speaker 1: Them again, it's not a problem. You know what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: because you got to see people again. Man, old woman,
Speaker 1: you gonna see them again.
Speaker 3: You know what I mean.
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
Speaker 1: You know the girl would be walking past you while
Speaker 1: you get your ass whip or getting pistolhipped about. That's right,
Speaker 1: you know, catch one of them, man, you know, so
Speaker 1: you you know what I mean, so you learn.
Speaker 3: You know what I mean.
Speaker 2: You're answered a lot of questions before you asking, because
Speaker 2: I was gonna ask you. Like you know, you see
Speaker 2: a lot of people in hip hop get caught up
Speaker 2: being too close to individuals in the street. And I
Speaker 2: was watching the Supreme Team doc and you were.
Speaker 1: In the crowd. Oh get that fat Cat Birthday part.
Speaker 3: Supreaming them as moment listen, listen, just black justice men.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. Bimmy's my men. I was
Speaker 1: running with them because they were closer in age. And
Speaker 1: then prem I knew you know, you know that that
Speaker 1: crew like a lot of them.
Speaker 3: I knew they were a little older, but I knew them.
Speaker 2: So how'd you end up not getting caught up in
Speaker 2: that like like say a IRV did not you know,
Speaker 2: not throwing them under the bus.
Speaker 1: But just nah, nah, I get it because you know why,
Speaker 1: because I was around enough hustlers my whole life.
Speaker 3: To to know that the shit ain't cute, you know
Speaker 3: what I mean. See, let me tell you that, like.
Speaker 1: Dudes that are insecure, that becomes like a like a
Speaker 1: like a like a like a security blanket form, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. If you really understand life and
Speaker 1: you're around enough people, you understand that you need to
Speaker 1: just that's not you don't need to be seen in
Speaker 1: that light. It's not necessary because I really was around it,
Speaker 1: Like so I don't have to inject I don't have
Speaker 1: to make that part of the loll cruise ain't narrative
Speaker 1: because I really did. I was really there, like for real,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, the shower for real? Yeah,
Speaker 1: very real. So it's like, you know, like dudes playing
Speaker 1: with guns and dropping them on the floor for a
Speaker 1: purpose just to see how you react.
Speaker 3: You know, you know that kind of ship.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you ever thought about telling those stories like in
Speaker 2: a movie or I mean I would do a movie.
Speaker 1: I thought about the people asked me that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: I would you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: When I hear those stories, they sound unbelievable about the teams.
Speaker 3: Like what yeah, yeah, nah, yeah, yeah, you know yo,
Speaker 3: I'm listening back. You know, you know two schools of thought.
Speaker 1: There's the guys that really, I want to be cut
Speaker 1: from that cloth, you see me as that, And there's
Speaker 1: the guys like, I'm gonna lay that over there because
Speaker 1: you know, I really smelled them candles, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, like them candles was? I smelled them for real?
Speaker 1: So I don't need to be you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: I'm good.
Speaker 2: I'm good.
Speaker 3: Nothing to prove.
Speaker 2: Another record off the album hewe and the chall Yeah again,
Speaker 2: you're taking a revolutionary tone. So it made me think,
Speaker 2: would you have rapped like that throughout your career if
Speaker 2: it was more I guess profitable.
Speaker 1: I didn't even take profits in the consideration. See, there's
Speaker 1: a time to create art and as a time for
Speaker 1: commercial consideration. If you painting them Ona Lisa, you don't
Speaker 1: paint it, you know, thinking that you know, I don't
Speaker 1: know something's gonna be trendy one day.
Speaker 3: You just painted. I just I didn't. I don't take
Speaker 3: that in consideration with this album. I wrote a record
Speaker 3: from the heart that I think people of all.
Speaker 1: Colors, ethnicities, cultures will be able to respect because it's
Speaker 1: really coming from my experience of what I've seen or
Speaker 1: what I've witnessed, or what I've envisioned it have it
Speaker 1: came to me.
Speaker 3: Whatever I was inspired to write, it's real.
Speaker 1: So it's not trying. I'm not trying to be commercial.
Speaker 1: I wanted to make something that could touch the world
Speaker 1: in a way that is real from a hip hop standpoint.
Speaker 1: So you know, I respected his stance. I respected, you know,
Speaker 1: my aunt And this is an interesting thing and I
Speaker 1: didn't know this when I did my DNA and at
Speaker 1: Harvard and they did all this stuff and she's still
Speaker 1: alive when we've talked. My aunt Joan, you know who
Speaker 1: I got reconnected with later in life. She was the
Speaker 1: first female black panther.
Speaker 3: Really.
Speaker 1: Yeah, my aunt Joan, Yeah, my aunt Joe from Oakland.
Speaker 1: She's from Oakland, Joan Lewis. My uncle was John Henry Lewis.
Speaker 1: He's a light heavyweight champion. He's in the Boxing Hall
Speaker 1: of Fame. He's first African American light heavyweight champ. But
Speaker 1: that whole side of my family has some very interesting
Speaker 1: people in me. She plays a violin. She you know,
Speaker 1: she's dope. And that that was, you know, something I
Speaker 1: learned and discovered. I thought that was quite fascinating, the
Speaker 1: huge thing. I thought a lot of the things he
Speaker 1: was trying to do were worthy of respect. Absolutely, so
Speaker 1: I wrote a song about it. I thought it was
Speaker 1: it was worth listening to. I think that, you know,
Speaker 1: as an artist, I would be cheating the world if
Speaker 1: I didn't write stuff that.
Speaker 3: Was came from my heart and soul. It's never to
Speaker 3: exclude anybody. I don't.
Speaker 1: I'm not even that. I'm not even built like that.
Speaker 1: I like everybody like I like people. I'm weird, like
Speaker 1: I don't have like all of them. You know, I
Speaker 1: don't judge people. I'm not judgmental. I don't, but I
Speaker 1: like so, I just wrote something that I thought people
Speaker 1: would find fascinating.
Speaker 2: But it clearly as a black man, that's always been
Speaker 2: in you. You talk about your you know aunt, who
Speaker 2: was the first black panther, So it's in your DNA.
Speaker 2: So when you used to hear Chuck d Rapp back
Speaker 2: in the day, did you have any of those that
Speaker 2: you did but maybe never put out?
Speaker 3: I did? I did? I did?
Speaker 2: I did?
Speaker 3: You know?
Speaker 1: I think I think creative courage it takes time to
Speaker 1: get to that place.
Speaker 3: You know, when you have choices, and.
Speaker 1: You know, quite frankly, you know, you know when you
Speaker 1: raised to be polite and when you raised with a
Speaker 1: certain type of manners, there's certain things you just don't
Speaker 1: say because you don't want to ruffle feathers. And I
Speaker 1: think that's a natural thing. Though that's not always about
Speaker 1: That's about how you're brought up. That's about upbringing. That's
Speaker 1: not really about like even commercial stuff. That's about upbringing.
Speaker 1: Like you look at Pocket, it's his upbringing that fuel
Speaker 1: that that creative music. It's your upbring So I wasn't
Speaker 1: really brought up in that kind of household, you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. I was brought up in a household
Speaker 1: Caribbean and southern, you know what I'm saying. Grandfather from Barbados,
Speaker 1: So it's a Caribbean influence in the house.
Speaker 3: Working a thousand jobs, washing.
Speaker 1: Your arms up to your elbows when you come in
Speaker 1: all that, you know, fixing your own car and shit.
Speaker 1: And then my grandmother from down south, so I was
Speaker 1: raised with that Southern Caribbean vibe in my house.
Speaker 3: So that just wasn't what we talked about. So I didn't.
Speaker 3: I wasn't as a kid coming up, That's not what
Speaker 3: I wrote about.
Speaker 1: But as you evolving, as you grow as a human being,
Speaker 1: and as you discover new things and new ship talk
Speaker 1: about it.
Speaker 2: Do you have a lot of unreleased music that you
Speaker 2: recorded in like, you know, your early years, and so
Speaker 2: why not? Why not put it up?
Speaker 3: I don't.
Speaker 1: I think I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
Speaker 1: But you know they'll have plenty of time to do
Speaker 1: all that, right, I don't.
Speaker 3: It's not for me here.
Speaker 1: You wait till you leave. Yeah, hell yeah. They hear
Speaker 1: that old ship, all that old ship. Yeah, I got
Speaker 1: the new old ship coming out. Wanna hear that old ship?
Speaker 3: Man?
Speaker 1: Trying to make some new ship. Let's get it popping, baby,
Speaker 1: what's happening man? Wanna hear that old ship?
Speaker 2: Man?
Speaker 3: I don't even care about that ship.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Whatever.
Speaker 1: These dudes, you know, like run around and you know
Speaker 1: there's dudes right now. I think they're gonna get away
Speaker 1: with the pro tools and all that. No, you're not mistake,
Speaker 1: gonna wear your ass out, man. Yeah, we come to
Speaker 1: get all that. I know you think you got it,
Speaker 1: you think you slick. You know, a couple of dudes
Speaker 1: put some sit up on its. I'm gonna tighten you
Speaker 1: up too. I got something for your ass too. You know,
Speaker 1: I know you think I forgot.
Speaker 2: You know, I think about I was talking about you
Speaker 2: in regard the Drake right because the way Drake doesn't
Speaker 2: back down from a rap challenge reminds me of ll
Speaker 2: couj because Drake makes the record for the ladies, but
Speaker 2: he's also not afraid to mix it up as an MC.
Speaker 2: And you had a lot of those back in the day.
Speaker 2: You had Ice Tea, you had Hamm, a cool modd.
Speaker 2: You know, you got it all of them onto the
Speaker 2: break of dawn. But what happened when you and Iced
Speaker 2: T finally bumped into each other at the Death Jam
Speaker 2: party on Bleak and bro.
Speaker 3: Man, Me and Ice Man, Me and Ice are cool man,
Speaker 3: you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: We bumped at each other, you know, talked a little
Speaker 1: talk and went back and forth for the low of
Speaker 1: this and that, but we cool like like I respect
Speaker 1: Ice like I really do. Ice is a you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. He's a smart dude. He's very clever,
Speaker 1: very smart. Like, you know what I'm saying. Like, listen, man,
Speaker 1: I had all kinds of runnings with all kinds of
Speaker 1: dudes over the years. You know what I'm saying. The
Speaker 1: bottom line is that it's always better to air on
Speaker 1: the side of civility, man, instead of putting yourself into
Speaker 1: some bullshit you don't want to get into.
Speaker 3: So me and Ice we ironed that out. Man. It
Speaker 3: wasn't no you know what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah, that's
Speaker 3: funny though you brought that shit.
Speaker 2: I know, because I just always wonder how cool it
Speaker 2: heads prevailed. As you said, you you are a real
Speaker 2: figure who ran with real figures. Yeah, Ice Tea's a
Speaker 2: real figure who ran with real figures. But it never
Speaker 2: got to that.
Speaker 3: Level of yeah yeah, well I'll tell you why, because.
Speaker 1: You know, I've always been a guy that look to
Speaker 1: avoid problems because I know problems become real problems. And
Speaker 1: I know how I am, you know what I mean, Like,
Speaker 1: I don't look for problems, Bro, I don't you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, Like, I'm just really not built like that.
Speaker 1: I don't want the problems because I'm not fucked and
Speaker 1: playing with you, you know what I mean, Like, I
Speaker 1: don't so I don't want no problems.
Speaker 3: You know what I say.
Speaker 1: I'm saying I'd rather us be friends. You know what
Speaker 1: I mean, because you have to look at me. You
Speaker 1: gotta look at my career.
Speaker 2: Bro.
Speaker 1: If I put all my energy into a problem, do
Speaker 1: you know how crazy it would be? This world would
Speaker 1: be different if I was fucking on the other side
Speaker 1: of the fence, the whole world. So it's like, I
Speaker 1: don't even want to go there. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: I want to keep things positive energy, no problem, no
Speaker 1: tough fake tough guy bullshit.
Speaker 3: Respect dudes. Give them love, give them on a see them,
Speaker 3: give them a.
Speaker 1: Dap, respect them behind their backs, respect them too, not
Speaker 1: just in their face.
Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying. And just keep it dead,
Speaker 3: you know what I'm saying. And it works for me.
Speaker 1: That's why I have a lot of friends and a
Speaker 1: lot of respect in the game. And there's very few people.
Speaker 1: There's only a few people that you know aren't in
Speaker 1: love with me, and I understand why. And you know,
Speaker 1: these things happen, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: But I got good.
Speaker 1: Relationships because of that, So I'd rather keep it dead
Speaker 1: with it, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: You say the rappers of the day, you know about
Speaker 2: the pitfalls of just beef and hip hop now now
Speaker 2: that times have.
Speaker 1: Changed, But I would say that, you know, I would
Speaker 1: say that when it's really when it's really just about
Speaker 1: the music and the bars, like, don't take it so personal,
Speaker 1: be like, why the fuck are you so butt hurt
Speaker 1: like that you want to like, you know, kill everything
Speaker 1: moving because somebody assaulted you on the way. I do
Speaker 1: get it, but you gotta control that, you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying. It's not like you can't really judge them
Speaker 1: because I've been there, I know it. It could be upsetting.
Speaker 1: You know. You see a girl you in you know
Speaker 1: the record plays you wanna call your girl got you now?
Speaker 3: You want to fight?
Speaker 1: You know, or she might go you'd be like, yo,
Speaker 1: this is you know, and she kind kind of gives
Speaker 1: you the you know, you see that that little you
Speaker 1: know that you see her mouth do this ship that
Speaker 1: little shit You're like, now you gotta you know, like
Speaker 1: you know, you made Drake that not like us. Shit,
Speaker 1: that's torture for a buffer said little kids, saying that's
Speaker 1: you know, that's just bananas. Absolutely, you'd be fine, bro,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, don't even trip. So my
Speaker 1: thing is like, that's what I'm saying. So like with
Speaker 1: the you just don't take it personal, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. You can't be overly sensitive, you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying. Is it true that you and.
Speaker 2: Jay Z once battled in a parking lot in Manhattan
Speaker 2: and you wrapped a verse from Funkadelic Relic and him
Speaker 2: and his team laughed at you.
Speaker 3: Okay, let's let's let's talk about it what it really is.
Speaker 1: First of all, it wasn't a I didn't rap a
Speaker 1: verse from Funkadelic Relic.
Speaker 3: Okay, that's the first fucking thing that the story it's bullshit, Okay,
Speaker 3: it's not true.
Speaker 1: What did happen though, is you know, I see you know,
Speaker 1: see guy you know Ei the club and then trying
Speaker 1: to you know, flash money to get my attention, and
Speaker 1: I'm looking okay, and then this man's sauce came up
Speaker 1: to me and was rapping. So I had a couple
Speaker 1: of rhymes. Remember I'm albums in there. You know these
Speaker 1: are guys that ain't had that deal. So when I
Speaker 1: have a deal, I had a suitcase and rhymes. Now
Speaker 1: I'm albums in saw I said some rhymes. I said
Speaker 1: a couple of rhymes. Then I said a little bit
Speaker 1: of a song. Ain't no stopping this a little bit?
Speaker 1: Then J came up wrapped, I was out of rhymes?
Speaker 1: Me in no, in no scenario that was I like
Speaker 1: fully loaded and ready to rhyme.
Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: If I was, you know, I'm not exactly like you know,
Speaker 1: the first rapper that you really want to get into
Speaker 1: that ship? You know what I'm saying, Like I wasn't.
Speaker 1: I wasn't like, so, yes, did I run out of rhymes?
Speaker 1: Was I finished rapping?
Speaker 3: A fucking ltely? Was it was? I?
Speaker 2: Was it his?
Speaker 1: Was it their peanut Gallery? Absolutely? But do you really
Speaker 1: want to get into some some of that kind of
Speaker 1: shit with LLLL like you really want that? You know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, Like, do do dudes really want the problems?
Speaker 3: Or is it just a nice story to have?
Speaker 1: It's like it's like you know, it's like like like
Speaker 1: like Floyd taking off the gloves, stepping out the ring
Speaker 1: and you shadow boxing in front of him, and I
Speaker 1: caught you.
Speaker 3: It's like, okay, okay, yeah you caught me.
Speaker 1: Yo, y'all caught me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So you saw there was just one of those things.
Speaker 2: You just weren't as prepared as you.
Speaker 3: I wasn't prepared. I ran out of rhymes. They run
Speaker 3: up this morn You know, he been rapping on the
Speaker 3: corner for ten years.
Speaker 1: He got fucking a thousand rhymes. I ain't got none.
Speaker 1: I'm out of rhymes. He raps.
Speaker 3: Okay, congrats, you got that one. You got that one.
Speaker 1: But you know, if I was you, I just baked
Speaker 1: that one and just leave it at that, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean? Don't like drop nothing?
Speaker 2: Is that Where the whole jay Z and llll COO
Speaker 2: J got problems came from?
Speaker 3: I don't know. I couldn't even tell you, bro.
Speaker 2: There was another rumor that the song Lounging, Your song
Speaker 2: Lounging was about Hole. I mean because at the time
Speaker 2: he was known for the Lexus and you was looking
Speaker 2: at me. He was known for the Lexus and he got.
Speaker 3: Stocking fucking Lexus, I can't rap about a Lexus.
Speaker 1: My nigga got stocking Lexus. Hey, I can't mention it Lexuss. Fuck,
Speaker 1: let's go on. What are we doing here? Like how
Speaker 1: personally are.
Speaker 3: We gonna take this ship?
Speaker 1: Bro?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 2: But with any of those balls about.
Speaker 1: Jay No, Like look, okay, So I'll tell you to
Speaker 1: you like this, if a dude makes a song, right,
Speaker 1: and I make a contrary a contrasting idea about a
Speaker 1: similar like in other words, if you say, yo, yo baby,
Speaker 1: I'm coming upstairs to see you, right, and then I'm like, yo,
Speaker 1: if I if I said something like if that inspired me, right,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, you know what, let him come upstairs,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna going around the side or some shit like that.
Speaker 3: That's not a disrespect bro.
Speaker 1: Had you had a song, it had some cool ideas,
Speaker 1: and it I just as an artist, was inspired and
Speaker 1: made some contrasting you know, a contrasting statement about what
Speaker 1: you were kind of saying in a contra like the
Speaker 1: contrast of it. It wasn't like I don't even know you,
Speaker 1: don't I don't know you from a hole in the wall,
Speaker 1: like at all. I have not like what what could
Speaker 1: I possibly want from him in nineties, Like, let's think
Speaker 1: about Night ninety six.
Speaker 3: What do I want with him?
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's brand new?
Speaker 3: What could I possibly want? And so all I did
Speaker 3: was there were songs out.
Speaker 1: I've made some contrasting statements based.
Speaker 3: On his song and my song like that. There wasn't
Speaker 3: no disrespect. But again that goes back to that sensitivity.
Speaker 3: Be dudes, be sensitive.
Speaker 1: Man. It's like, dude, like, don't assume the worst? Why
Speaker 1: are you assuming the worst? Why not assume the best?
Speaker 1: Why not say yo, yo, let's fuck with something like
Speaker 1: why does it have to be I'm dissing you? Like
Speaker 1: I wasn't dissing that, man. I hain't no reason to
Speaker 1: dism like for what. Even to today, I don't want
Speaker 1: to disshome for what. I don't want nothing from him,
Speaker 1: I don't need nothing from him. I'm not looking for nothing.
Speaker 3: But I don't have any problems.
Speaker 2: Like you know, there is that infamous picure of you
Speaker 2: at the awards. You're looking at him when you sizing
Speaker 2: them up, like yo, I got the rhymes right now now.
Speaker 1: Now, what it probably is is he was looking at
Speaker 1: that like at me like that when they caught the shot.
Speaker 1: You know, that's like that's like the teacher I got
Speaker 1: you last. It's like a motherfucker look at you, and
Speaker 1: then you look at him, and then the teacher get
Speaker 1: out of my classroom. You know, it's like I just
Speaker 1: got the I got caught.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: You know Pick, I'm talking know exactly what you're talking about.
Speaker 2: Do you remember what you were thinking about in that
Speaker 2: moment exactly? Yeah, I was probably thinking small fucking get
Speaker 2: on my nerves. He's looking at me all crazy, but
Speaker 2: some shit like that, smart fucking get on my nerves. Man,
Speaker 2: we get a smart fucking and then like a friendly competition,
Speaker 2: because you know, I even think about it had to
Speaker 2: be kind of difficult when he became president of the
Speaker 2: Death Jam because now he's.
Speaker 1: Wasn't difficult at all. We had a meeting, wasn't difficult.
Speaker 1: Only thing difficult is or promote my ship. I don't
Speaker 1: get like, you know, people funny with that, because like
Speaker 1: you have people that all say, like, yo, hell, that's
Speaker 1: crazy when they gave this guy a job. But first
Speaker 1: of all, I don't like talking about people like this.
Speaker 1: This is ridiculous, But I just do it because everybody's
Speaker 1: going to be already around. We already viral any fucking
Speaker 1: with so I'm as well finish. So listen, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: use it of some Some people who are familiar with
Speaker 1: this will understand it. When Michael Jackson was on Motown,
Speaker 1: he never wanted to be the president, Bro, I didn't
Speaker 1: never want to be no president in the death jam
Speaker 1: or do.
Speaker 3: No, I didn't want a job fucking mc fuck. I
Speaker 3: ain't a couple of people, Yo Russell, give me a job.
Speaker 1: That's not what I was in it for.
Speaker 3: So No, I didn't and I didn't have begrudge him.
Speaker 3: He had. People have different things that they want to accomplish.
Speaker 3: I celebrate that.
Speaker 1: I'm happy for him, like seriously, sincerely, Like I'm happy
Speaker 1: for homie, Like I'm happy that he's doing what he's doing.
Speaker 3: I'm happy that. Like, even when that happened, I.
Speaker 1: Didn't have any issue because I had no reason to
Speaker 1: think that it would be anything negative. And if anything,
Speaker 1: you have somebody that understands what you do and what
Speaker 1: you go through as an artist who's been through some things.
Speaker 1: So nah, I didn't feel no kind of way. You know,
Speaker 1: we met and stuff. I don't really know what that
Speaker 1: dynamic is about. I really don't like I really don't
Speaker 1: know what it's about.
Speaker 2: When y'all meant to talk about, you know, the album
Speaker 2: or whatever, did y'all have good conversations, y'all bring all
Speaker 2: of this to the forefront.
Speaker 1: Yea, it was not. We didn't we never you know,
Speaker 1: sometimes you're right. Sometimes you got to give the elephant
Speaker 1: rooms some peanuts.
Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying. We didn't really address it. No,
Speaker 3: we didn't. We didn't. We didn't really address it.
Speaker 1: But I can tell you this, I sincerely I like
Speaker 1: his music. I don't have no issues with them. You
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, Like it is what it is.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying, Like I'm not. I'm not
Speaker 1: you know, you know I'm I'm I'm in LL mode.
Speaker 3: Man. Think about LL cool J.
Speaker 2: When I look at y'all and hip hop, I look
Speaker 2: at you as Magic Johnson, I look at I look
Speaker 2: at him as Michael Jordan. But you don't get no
Speaker 2: Jordan without Magic.
Speaker 3: I mean that's one way of looking at them.
Speaker 2: Like Magic is literally the top five of all time easily.
Speaker 1: You know maybe you know maybe, but you know, I
Speaker 1: guess the move. The movie credits ain't roll yet, so
Speaker 1: we got to see how that how it works out? Yeah?
Speaker 3: You know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Would you be open to a friendly a friendly spar
Speaker 2: what kind of lyrical lyrical damn l lyrics?
Speaker 1: Did I get excited? Like?
Speaker 3: What was far you're talking about?
Speaker 2: Cause you know you remember at the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 2: I don't know what it was, the Hall of Fame
Speaker 2: of the seventy Maybe was just when they did the
Speaker 2: seventy five NBA inductions and Jordan saw Magic. You're like,
Speaker 2: I crossed you up.
Speaker 1: We can get at it right now, yo, listen man, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, hey, I'm bad. You want to
Speaker 1: know Broka, you know what I'm saying, Like, okay, okay,
Speaker 1: you know I wouldn't you know, I would say, let's
Speaker 1: just all stay focused.
Speaker 3: You know they don't know. Let's just stay focused, baby,
Speaker 3: don't get distracted.
Speaker 1: You're getting it now. Just leave it alone, just win, Just.
Speaker 3: Do your thing, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: Whatever whatever happened to the e love the brother that
Speaker 2: carried your radio now ear was he's in I think
Speaker 2: he's in Cali.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. I'm not sure what he's doing.
Speaker 1: We talk occasionally. I had him at the Rock and
Speaker 1: Roll Hall of Fame. That was a good vibe, you
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. So you know, good ship.
Speaker 3: He was a public enemy logo, right, absolutely, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: He loved my hype man. That's the public enemy logo.
Speaker 1: He had had the the bullseye on him and all
Speaker 1: at the school. Yeah, that's funny, right, A lot of history.
Speaker 2: Bro, correct me if I'm wrong on this too, because
Speaker 2: you and DJ Scratch y'all made a classic record and
Speaker 2: go and the Goat album.
Speaker 3: We did most he did most of the gold. He
Speaker 3: did most of a lot of it. Yeah, a lot,
Speaker 3: not all of it, a lot of it.
Speaker 2: Why haven't y'all connected more on production?
Speaker 1: Just just time and and going through things like that
Speaker 1: whole acronym. Like first of all, like I didn't even
Speaker 1: know when I you know, when we came, when I
Speaker 1: came with that, with that album, that it was going
Speaker 1: to turn the Goat into everything it became then, Like
Speaker 1: most people don't even know I came up with that ship.
Speaker 1: That's crazy, Like most people do not even know. Yo,
Speaker 1: this guy really came up with the Goat, that whole
Speaker 1: concept of being the Goat and went every area of culture.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, so like that's just you know, you're welcome again.
Speaker 1: Fuck you know what I mean, y'all welcome, you know,
Speaker 1: But it was and I got it from Ah, and
Speaker 1: I leave saying he was the greatest of all times
Speaker 1: in Earl of Manigat. You know what I'm saying, because
Speaker 1: me and Bimmy used to about Earl of Manigat being
Speaker 1: a goat and all that with gold, right, and then
Speaker 1: I may goat g a t greatest of all times
Speaker 1: of acronym, and it just kind of bled into society,
Speaker 1: became this global thing.
Speaker 2: And you often get left out of conversations for an
Speaker 2: acronym that you created.
Speaker 1: Right, But I'm in it if they use an acronym,
Speaker 1: yeah right, like like so every time you see somebody
Speaker 1: use that goat the emoji, or they called Tom Brady
Speaker 1: the gold, or they called Jordan the gold, or they
Speaker 1: call Floyd or Ali or whoever the goat, I'm right there,
Speaker 1: which is crazy for me because I know I created it.
Speaker 1: So it's like I'm looking at it like, oh shit, man,
Speaker 1: there's another one. Oh Michael Phelps' is a goat. Oh okay,
Speaker 1: well done, young man.
Speaker 2: You know I got a few more questions I was reading,
Speaker 2: WILLI Smith's book, and he talks about going broke after
Speaker 2: having success in music early on. Did you ever have
Speaker 2: any of those issues.
Speaker 1: I've had moments in my life where you know, I
Speaker 1: taxes or had to do things, but no, I've never
Speaker 1: been in that position. I also, you know, I'm a
Speaker 1: big believe I paid my tithes, you know what I'm saying. So,
Speaker 1: you know, whatever I get, I get ten percent of God.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: You know, I you know, I lived my life kind
Speaker 3: of based on certain codes. I'm not.
Speaker 1: You know, I've never been big on either overspending or oversaving.
Speaker 1: I just kind of let my life flow.
Speaker 3: That's why.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 1: I can get whatever I want whenever I want it,
Speaker 1: and I'm pretty good.
Speaker 3: I'm good with that, actually, very good with that. Yeah,
Speaker 3: you know, so I'm cool.
Speaker 2: Who taught you the business? If anybody.
Speaker 1: Trial and error or trialing ever? You know, man like
Speaker 1: you learned like you just learned to like. I remember
Speaker 1: one time I gave my mother eight thousand dollars to
Speaker 1: hold for me, and then I got a check for
Speaker 1: fifty grand or something like that.
Speaker 3: It was a little I was a little kid. I
Speaker 3: was maybe sixteen seventeen sixteen something like that.
Speaker 2: And I remember Dan even wrapping that long. Oh yeah,
Speaker 2: you wrap money for that long?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, No, No, it's crazy because I've been a
Speaker 1: fan since eight nine. I started writing at eleven or twelve.
Speaker 1: I've been doing this my whole life, right for real.
Speaker 1: So and I watched that fifty grand God and that
Speaker 1: eight just stayed there.
Speaker 3: I was like, Okay, let's see how this shit goes.
Speaker 3: Like I learned that right there.
Speaker 1: You just want to save money, save enough always, you know,
Speaker 1: get to make sure you can.
Speaker 3: You know, you know, you got you know what I mean, Stucky.
Speaker 2: Who are the people in your life that just kept
Speaker 2: you stables as a human because, like you said, you
Speaker 2: started when you were sixteen years old, so you had
Speaker 2: the industry, you had the streets, like, you had every
Speaker 2: single pitfall that could have happened in front of you.
Speaker 2: But your grew to still be the man that we
Speaker 2: see in today.
Speaker 1: And you know, my mother, you know, like my mother
Speaker 1: would get me, like she give me a book with
Speaker 1: a whole bunch of drug addicts and it with heroin addicts,
Speaker 1: fingers all hands, all blown up sauce. She'd be like, Tod,
Speaker 1: look at this and I'll be looking at it. She'd
Speaker 1: be like, you know people that do that, they don't
Speaker 1: have long careers. I'm like, oh, that messed my career. Interesting,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And then my grandmother, you
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, because it was like initially, you know,
Speaker 1: coming up, I was raised Catholic. I wasn't even raised
Speaker 1: in like the traditional Black church as we know it.
Speaker 1: I was raised Catholic and then ended up getting into
Speaker 1: the more Bible based church faith based churches later, but
Speaker 1: so so it was you know, all that that Catholicism, man,
Speaker 1: that'll get you like that to have you like being
Speaker 1: real cautious man, like everything's naughty and all that.
Speaker 3: So it was like you just learned to like watch
Speaker 3: your step, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: And you know, like.
Speaker 1: I always like I tell you man, like like I
Speaker 1: remember one time I was talking to my man, right
Speaker 1: and we was talking about hustling. He was like, well,
Speaker 1: why don'd you come hustle with me?
Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: And this is before I went up town and everything,
Speaker 1: And I was like, nah, I don't want to do it.
Speaker 1: He's like why, I said, because I want to be
Speaker 1: the best. So he said, so what's the problem. I said, well,
Speaker 1: not to kill people. So that's the like. So in
Speaker 1: other words, what I'm saying is when you think about things,
Speaker 1: when you do things, you have to think about things.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying, Like, you have to really
Speaker 1: do the knowledge on what it is you're analyzing and
Speaker 1: what you consider it and whether or not you will
Speaker 1: And I just say be perfect. I didn't say none
Speaker 1: of that. I just said you have to consider what
Speaker 1: you're doing and if you if it's worth it to
Speaker 1: you based on what it is. So that's how so
Speaker 1: I had a little fun, but like, to be honest
Speaker 1: with you, with the drugs and all that, like, I
Speaker 1: don't like my brain feeling like I ain't got no
Speaker 1: breaks on it and shit, I don't like that feeling
Speaker 1: like I don't like walking in the room. I don't
Speaker 1: know what the fuck's going on. I'm all like, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't like that feeling. That's why I don't be
Speaker 1: drinking and smoking and getting high and all that.
Speaker 3: I never did because of that.
Speaker 1: I've tried everything, I've tried shit, but I'm never That's
Speaker 1: why I don't like that feeling.
Speaker 3: You know what, I'm saying, I like to have my
Speaker 3: wits about me.
Speaker 2: So that's been your key to aging gracefully in the industry,
Speaker 2: because you know, a lot of the icons we grew
Speaker 2: to knowing love they not landing with their planes with
Speaker 2: the wheels out, you know what I mean, a lot
Speaker 2: of them planes landing in the wheels not coming out.
Speaker 3: Motherfucker. Yeah, the motherfucker's landing on flat time exactly. Roller
Speaker 3: skate one, roller.
Speaker 1: Skate on the seven forty seventh yo. Yeah, just not
Speaker 1: getting high and all that. Man, Like, take care of yourself, beat.
Speaker 1: I like to get in the gym, workout train, you
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. I like to read this shit,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like, I don't be sitting
Speaker 1: around high on motherfucking day.
Speaker 3: Man, Like, what are we doing?
Speaker 1: Man?
Speaker 3: What's that about?
Speaker 1: For me? I'm not Look, people could do what they
Speaker 1: want and I got homies that do that and it's
Speaker 1: all good.
Speaker 3: I ain't got no problem with it.
Speaker 2: You know, that's you, you know, But no, you know,
Speaker 2: like I said, you know, we're seeing a lot of
Speaker 2: people fall from grace, you know, for things that they
Speaker 2: did decades ago. Do you think that you know, landing
Speaker 2: with your wheels out has to be a decision and
Speaker 2: a mindset that you got to be committed to from
Speaker 2: day one.
Speaker 3: Well, you got to put yourself in the best position
Speaker 3: to do that right.
Speaker 1: Sometimes you can get lucky, sometimes things just work out,
Speaker 1: but you know it's better to be you know, prepared
Speaker 1: to land is plan your landing and then if.
Speaker 3: You got to switch it up, you switch it up.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 1: It's like it's a saying, right, all plans are useless,
Speaker 1: but planning is essential, you know what I'm saying. So
Speaker 1: it's like, if you got a plan, it ain't gonna
Speaker 1: go as planned. But if you got a plan, then
Speaker 1: you got a place to pivot from, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. It's like having a map. If you got
Speaker 1: a map, you know, and your plan is to go
Speaker 1: that way, even if you got to switch, you got
Speaker 1: a map.
Speaker 3: So you can go that way.
Speaker 2: Makes sense? That makes sense. You know. Last year was
Speaker 2: the fiftieth anniversary of hip hop. This year is the
Speaker 2: fortieth anniversary of Death Jam and.
Speaker 3: Me right the first artist.
Speaker 2: So you know, with all the controversies surrounding Russell Simmons,
Speaker 2: does that impact how these things can be properly celebrated?
Speaker 2: How these stories can be properly told.
Speaker 1: I don't think so, because I don't think one thing
Speaker 1: has nothing to do with the other one. You know,
Speaker 1: if we found out that Galileo was doing some crazy shit,
Speaker 1: should we do away with astronomy and telescopes and shit? Like,
Speaker 1: if we found out that, I don't know.
Speaker 2: You name it, you still got to tell the story.
Speaker 1: I mean like it's just like like like it's really
Speaker 1: kind of like people like. Look, first of all, I
Speaker 1: don't like to judge people because I wasn't there.
Speaker 3: That's the first thing. I also don't be little.
Speaker 1: I don't try to never make light of anything that
Speaker 1: anybody's been through in terms of victims that I'm not
Speaker 1: with that either.
Speaker 3: I don't play the games.
Speaker 1: What I will say is, you're living in let's say, whoever,
Speaker 1: you're living in an apartment building and you found out
Speaker 1: that the builder of that apartment building had did some
Speaker 1: really really bad things. Should you break your lease and
Speaker 1: move out? Should we demolish that building and redo it?
Speaker 1: Have somebody a perfect hand building.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't even know the answer, But what I say
Speaker 1: to people is you got to look at these.
Speaker 3: Things when you think about stuff. One thing is one thing,
Speaker 3: this is another, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: And even if you remove the person out of the building,
Speaker 2: you still have to tell the story of the person
Speaker 2: building that building.
Speaker 1: But you still tell the story of the building. So
Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, let's take history, world history for example.
Speaker 1: It's probably been a couple of people that have done
Speaker 1: some good things and bad things. So do we eliminate
Speaker 1: all of the good because of the bad? Do we
Speaker 1: throw away the good because of the bad deed?
Speaker 3: That's the question.
Speaker 2: We live in a country that was built on bad deed, I'm.
Speaker 1: Saying, so do we like like like, like are you
Speaker 1: are you prepared to give up your passport because of
Speaker 1: what was done to the indigenous people in this country?
Speaker 1: Right like this, you gotta look, you gotta be real
Speaker 1: and I'm not and it ain't none of it good.
Speaker 1: Like I'm not saying don't make light of it by
Speaker 1: no means, I'm not on that bullshit, But I'm just saying, like,
Speaker 1: we gotta be realistic.
Speaker 3: Man, the dude built you know, he put together this company.
Speaker 2: He did so even if he's not celebrated, you still
Speaker 2: got to tell.
Speaker 1: You, yeah, you may not celebrate his actions in that
Speaker 1: particular area. But you can't say that he didn't do
Speaker 1: something right, right. I'm just saying like, it's no way
Speaker 1: around that, because if not, we have to erase all
Speaker 1: of world's history because to find a perfect person that
Speaker 1: did good things and nothing bad? Does that even exist?
Speaker 1: Does it exist in your household? What was grandma doing?
Speaker 1: Was grandma freaking off? Was grandma freaking off?
Speaker 3: Speak?
Speaker 1: Should we never did grandma illegally take money and do
Speaker 1: the nasty nasty and take some money back in the sixties,
Speaker 1: and now she making Thanksgiving? And we are we fouled
Speaker 1: for eating this stuff? And right now because Grandma shot
Speaker 1: bucking the ass with the twenty two round the corner.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I'm sure those conversations that came up for you though,
Speaker 2: right like people have asked like are you gonna have
Speaker 2: him here?
Speaker 1: No, Honestly, nobody is really asked, And I'm glad you
Speaker 1: did ask because I just think that none of us
Speaker 1: are perfect, right, and none of us should make light
Speaker 1: of any victim and anything they go through.
Speaker 3: Ever, we have to look at the world and things
Speaker 3: on a case by case.
Speaker 1: Basis, because if you're not gonna look at it on
Speaker 1: a case ba case by case basis.
Speaker 3: I don't know what we're gonna do because nobody gonna
Speaker 3: do shit.
Speaker 1: Because if everybody had a goddamn you know, a Wikipedia
Speaker 1: on a TV screen above their head with all of
Speaker 1: the foul shit they did, we'd be walking around this motherfucker. Man, Man, Man,
Speaker 1: what what?
Speaker 3: I wouldn't hurt a fly?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know you wouldn't, but you out there chopping
Speaker 1: chickens heads off every five minutes. I wouldn't hurt a fly. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I know you're telling the truth.
Speaker 1: But I'll kill a chicken. I'll kill a chicken, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean? Like everybody like people, you know people.
Speaker 1: Nobody's perfect with that stuff. Man.
Speaker 3: So that's the way I look at it. Man, you
Speaker 3: know what I Man?
Speaker 2: Did you feel away when President Biden got your name
Speaker 2: wrong at the CBC conference? He called you l J
Speaker 2: cool Jay? Then he referred to you as a boy
Speaker 2: before correcting himself and saying, man, did you get nah?
Speaker 3: I mean, you know what else supposed to do?
Speaker 1: Man?
Speaker 3: Like I'm a mine?
Speaker 1: Man, God, drmit, you know like I was supposed to
Speaker 1: do due eighty years olds live man, listen, I got
Speaker 1: ship to do. Man, The last thing I got to work.
Speaker 1: Let me let me tell you something. When you at
Speaker 1: the point where the president messing up your name is
Speaker 1: a national story, she was a bad motherfucker.
Speaker 3: You're a bad motherfucker.
Speaker 1: At that point, Yo, when the president messing up your
Speaker 1: name is national news.
Speaker 3: He did something right.
Speaker 1: So I'm going I'm gonna just be like, I'm just gonna,
Speaker 1: you know, wish them all the best, bro, I wish
Speaker 1: them good health.
Speaker 3: And that's it. Man.
Speaker 2: I can't you ever been approached by doing the chapstick line.
Speaker 1: Well, I met with them a long time ago, but
Speaker 1: you know, you know, I think you know a lot
Speaker 1: of Melani man.
Speaker 3: I'm not sure. I'm not.
Speaker 1: That's a lot of Melani man, A lot of Melanin
Speaker 1: on them lips, man, that sits like hoof, you know,
Speaker 1: a little Bonnie Man, get a low.
Speaker 3: To ll and all that that shit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Hell. That's why I want you back,
Speaker 1: because I'm saying back then, you know, yeah, That's.
Speaker 2: Why I want people to listen to the new album
Speaker 2: because you know, even with all the success you've had,
Speaker 2: there's still a lot of doors that have been closed
Speaker 2: to you because of your black well.
Speaker 1: I mean, listen, but there's a lot of doors that opened, right. See,
Speaker 1: life is we know what we're dealing with in the
Speaker 1: world in America.
Speaker 3: But you can't. I can't allow myself to get kind
Speaker 3: of caught up in that shit. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: We know what's true. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't.
Speaker 2: But my thing is.
Speaker 1: When the elevated doors close, take the steps, you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: Like, I'm not tripping off of that.
Speaker 1: Like I'm not gonna walk around overly sensitive with a
Speaker 1: chip on my shoulder about what I'm not getting. I'm
Speaker 1: too busy thinking about what I am getting, and so
Speaker 1: I'm gonna make the most of what I do get.
Speaker 1: So if you you know, if you do not let's
Speaker 1: just say, for instance, if somebody wanted to deny me
Speaker 1: an orange because I'm a black man, Okay, but I
Speaker 1: bet you I'm gonna give me nine thousand peaches up
Speaker 1: this motherfucker.
Speaker 3: You know what I mean. That's how you do it.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying, You go get it, like
Speaker 1: you can't be caught up in that because that misery
Speaker 1: and that and that that that woe was me mentality,
Speaker 1: that victim mentality.
Speaker 3: That's not successful. I'm about being successful. You know what
Speaker 3: I'm saying, what.
Speaker 2: Does success look like for you? In regard to the Force.
Speaker 3: Album impacting the culture?
Speaker 1: People getting a full load of the Force album, it
Speaker 1: really impacted the culture in a major way with sales,
Speaker 1: with airplay.
Speaker 3: With streams, people really feeling it and.
Speaker 1: Embracing it and loving it and saying, Wow, I didn't
Speaker 1: know that an artist that came maybe two, three, four
Speaker 1: generations before me, I didn't even know that I would
Speaker 1: even be remotely interested in hearing his music, But Wow,
Speaker 1: this shit really moved me. And then on the flip
Speaker 1: side of that, it's the day one fan saying, damn,
Speaker 1: I really thought that, Like because you know the guy
Speaker 1: I went to high school where there's a bus driver
Speaker 1: now and his stomach is to his knees, that L
Speaker 1: wasn't gonna be able to do it. Nah, Now we
Speaker 1: can't do it. You can't continue to be great and
Speaker 1: perform at a high level.
Speaker 3: But you just got to be on it like that.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. What cloth are you cut from?
Speaker 1: Are you cut from the surrender cloth or you cut
Speaker 1: from the conquer cloth? You got to make those decisions,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. So that's what I want,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, like touch the world with
Speaker 1: that shit and let people know, like, Yo, this dude
Speaker 1: is this guy's real, This shit is real.
Speaker 3: This is a different thing.
Speaker 1: This dude is different because he really executes the shit
Speaker 1: he says like, you know, this ain't raising in the sunbeam.
Speaker 1: I'm not just talking about the shit all day and
Speaker 1: you know, and they're never doing it.
Speaker 2: Would the music be enough to tell the ll cool
Speaker 2: J story?
Speaker 1: Oh no, No, I'm way too multifaceted for that. There's
Speaker 1: too many dimensions to my character. But it definitely will
Speaker 1: tell the artistic stories that I've been looking to put forth,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, And it'll tell people where
Speaker 1: I was at when I created that music and what
Speaker 1: I felt was important, what I was inspired by, and
Speaker 1: hopefully you can find inspiration in my inspiration. You know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. It's like, you know, you know, it's
Speaker 1: like having sex. Man, you know what I'm saying. You
Speaker 1: got to be in the moment. You got to be
Speaker 1: self aware. You got to know when to be aggressive,
Speaker 1: you gotta know when to be calm. You know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying. You gotta know when to turn it up.
Speaker 1: You gotta know when to turn it down. You gotta
Speaker 1: know when to be nice. You know, you gotta know
Speaker 1: when to not be not so nice.
Speaker 3: That's life. You know what I'm saying. So that's what
Speaker 3: it is. You know what I'm saying. That's how I'm
Speaker 3: doing it. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: I love cool Jake.
Speaker 3: Man.
Speaker 2: I appreciate you, brother, love you for the time.
Speaker 3: Man, mister, appreciate you.