1 00:00:15,476 --> 00:00:22,756 Speaker 1: Pushkin Earthreine Fire have a wonderful new documentary out now 2 00:00:22,796 --> 00:00:26,236 Speaker 1: on HBO and just before premiered at Tribeca and New York. 3 00:00:26,396 --> 00:00:29,156 Speaker 1: The three OG's of the group, vocalist Philip Bailey, singer 4 00:00:29,156 --> 00:00:32,836 Speaker 1: percussionist Ralph Johnson, and bass player Verdin White, stop by 5 00:00:32,836 --> 00:00:36,476 Speaker 1: a broken record for a chat. As a music podcaster, 6 00:00:36,676 --> 00:00:39,156 Speaker 1: I always had that famous old saying swirling around my 7 00:00:39,156 --> 00:00:42,596 Speaker 1: head that talking about music is like dancing about architecture, 8 00:00:43,196 --> 00:00:46,556 Speaker 1: and none more so than during this particular conversation. I mean, 9 00:00:46,596 --> 00:00:49,236 Speaker 1: Earthwreine Fire is a music that, in all my experience 10 00:00:49,276 --> 00:00:53,556 Speaker 1: of it is just impossible to intellectualize. It exists in us, 11 00:00:53,716 --> 00:00:57,076 Speaker 1: and likely in them too, on a spiritual level and 12 00:00:57,116 --> 00:00:59,996 Speaker 1: therefore also on an emotional level, and I don't think 13 00:01:00,036 --> 00:01:02,116 Speaker 1: any amount of talking about their music could make us 14 00:01:02,196 --> 00:01:04,836 Speaker 1: understand any better where it comes from or why it 15 00:01:04,956 --> 00:01:07,436 Speaker 1: impacts us the way it does. What you can glean 16 00:01:07,476 --> 00:01:11,196 Speaker 1: from talking about them, though, is they're beautiful people, warm, 17 00:01:11,396 --> 00:01:14,676 Speaker 1: well adorned and committed, and I'm sure that's a big 18 00:01:14,716 --> 00:01:18,156 Speaker 1: part of what makes the records deeply impactful and enduring. 19 00:01:18,916 --> 00:01:21,836 Speaker 1: In our conversation, we talk about Maurice White, the founder 20 00:01:21,876 --> 00:01:24,076 Speaker 1: of spiritual and musical leader of the group, who also 21 00:01:24,156 --> 00:01:26,836 Speaker 1: is Verdein's brother. We listen to some of their music 22 00:01:26,876 --> 00:01:29,996 Speaker 1: together and Phillip spills on what the song Reasons is 23 00:01:30,076 --> 00:01:40,356 Speaker 1: actually all about. This is broken record, real musicians, real conversations. 24 00:01:43,676 --> 00:01:46,836 Speaker 1: Here's my interview with Philip Bailey, Ralph Johnson, and Verdan 25 00:01:46,916 --> 00:01:50,196 Speaker 1: White of Earthwin and Fire from Amazon Music Studio one 26 00:01:50,356 --> 00:01:51,236 Speaker 1: twenty six. 27 00:01:53,276 --> 00:01:58,956 Speaker 2: Man, earth Wind and Fire. That's it, Life and living Colors? 28 00:01:59,036 --> 00:01:59,316 Speaker 2: Are you? 29 00:02:00,676 --> 00:02:03,836 Speaker 1: I'm amazing, I'm amazing. I got done watching you guys 30 00:02:03,876 --> 00:02:04,956 Speaker 1: documentary yesterday. 31 00:02:05,276 --> 00:02:05,516 Speaker 2: Wow. 32 00:02:05,636 --> 00:02:07,476 Speaker 1: I got to flip through your book, Ralph. I it 33 00:02:07,516 --> 00:02:09,236 Speaker 1: was only sent to me yesterday, so I got to 34 00:02:09,276 --> 00:02:11,236 Speaker 1: go through the full thing. Yet I read your book 35 00:02:11,236 --> 00:02:14,596 Speaker 1: a long time ago, so we'll covered there. So I'm Steve. 36 00:02:14,636 --> 00:02:16,356 Speaker 1: I've been listening to the music for a week. My 37 00:02:16,396 --> 00:02:20,316 Speaker 1: spirit's high. Good deal, My spirits hi very good, very good. 38 00:02:20,316 --> 00:02:24,396 Speaker 2: How you guys feeling feeling good, feeling fantastic. 39 00:02:23,996 --> 00:02:26,836 Speaker 3: Enjoying this time, you know, at home, and then all 40 00:02:26,876 --> 00:02:31,196 Speaker 3: the activities surrounding the documentary and the book, and so 41 00:02:31,316 --> 00:02:33,236 Speaker 3: there's a lot going on right through here, and we're 42 00:02:33,236 --> 00:02:34,076 Speaker 3: trying to keep it moving. 43 00:02:34,396 --> 00:02:36,756 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's amazing earth through the fire. It feels like 44 00:02:36,836 --> 00:02:40,356 Speaker 1: you guys are ever present always, but it feels extra 45 00:02:40,356 --> 00:02:43,436 Speaker 1: special right now with you guys, since the doc is 46 00:02:43,436 --> 00:02:44,876 Speaker 1: coming out and I know it's premiering in a couple 47 00:02:44,956 --> 00:02:45,356 Speaker 1: of weeks. 48 00:02:45,716 --> 00:02:47,996 Speaker 2: It does. I mean, and you know, like I've been 49 00:02:47,996 --> 00:02:51,636 Speaker 2: saying to the guys, because we're used to a lot 50 00:02:51,676 --> 00:02:54,716 Speaker 2: of things, a lot of stuff happening, but I said, 51 00:02:55,516 --> 00:02:58,236 Speaker 2: this is special. You know, you got to you gotta 52 00:02:58,396 --> 00:03:02,596 Speaker 2: slow down and take a breath because this is special. 53 00:03:02,636 --> 00:03:06,636 Speaker 2: You know, uh, not very many people get a chance 54 00:03:06,716 --> 00:03:14,276 Speaker 2: to witness their body work done in a documentary. You know, Questlove. 55 00:03:15,436 --> 00:03:17,316 Speaker 2: You know he's gonna you know, he knocks it out 56 00:03:17,356 --> 00:03:22,596 Speaker 2: the park. You know, he's a music historian. Yep. And 57 00:03:23,196 --> 00:03:26,916 Speaker 2: so yeah, we're just gonna take a breath and really 58 00:03:27,036 --> 00:03:27,596 Speaker 2: enjoy this. 59 00:03:27,836 --> 00:03:29,636 Speaker 1: You guys have had a lot of big moments throughout 60 00:03:29,636 --> 00:03:31,756 Speaker 1: your career, but at this point you can feel when 61 00:03:31,796 --> 00:03:34,356 Speaker 1: it is particularly big moments still. 62 00:03:34,116 --> 00:03:37,436 Speaker 2: Exactly right, I mean, we're here because of that, right right? 63 00:03:38,636 --> 00:03:41,276 Speaker 2: You know what are we talking about? You know, exactly exactly? 64 00:03:42,036 --> 00:03:44,756 Speaker 1: Not have you guys every week if you want no doc? 65 00:03:44,956 --> 00:03:47,996 Speaker 1: You know, open door for y'all. You know, The amazing 66 00:03:47,996 --> 00:03:51,996 Speaker 1: thing about earthwin Fire is you guys are ever present. 67 00:03:52,836 --> 00:03:58,716 Speaker 1: But because the music was always so, it wasn't even futuristic. 68 00:03:58,876 --> 00:04:02,116 Speaker 1: It was just timeless in the real sense of the word, 69 00:04:02,476 --> 00:04:05,196 Speaker 1: like like it could have existed in the sixteen hundreds 70 00:04:05,316 --> 00:04:10,316 Speaker 1: or in three thy thirty or so. It never it's 71 00:04:10,356 --> 00:04:12,756 Speaker 1: never felt like it's always felt. And I know they've 72 00:04:12,756 --> 00:04:14,396 Speaker 1: tried to label at various times that I heard in 73 00:04:14,436 --> 00:04:17,356 Speaker 1: the documentary progressive, soul, the different things. But you guys 74 00:04:17,396 --> 00:04:19,756 Speaker 1: have always just sounded like yourselves. You guys have always 75 00:04:20,556 --> 00:04:27,316 Speaker 1: had this uncannyability, unlike anyone else, to blend a bunch 76 00:04:27,356 --> 00:04:29,396 Speaker 1: of styles in a way that just feels coherent and 77 00:04:29,476 --> 00:04:32,356 Speaker 1: just feels soulful and beautiful. I just I don't know 78 00:04:32,356 --> 00:04:35,356 Speaker 1: how you guys did that. Like, the documentary gave me 79 00:04:35,396 --> 00:04:40,836 Speaker 1: a hint when it talked about Maurice journaling and his 80 00:04:41,076 --> 00:04:45,476 Speaker 1: goals were to be, in just a paraphrase, his first 81 00:04:45,516 --> 00:04:47,916 Speaker 1: goal was to be a band that can connect to everyone. 82 00:04:48,716 --> 00:04:51,356 Speaker 1: Two number two was to be big. Three was to 83 00:04:51,436 --> 00:04:55,556 Speaker 1: change the world. And I was like, that explains maybe 84 00:04:55,756 --> 00:04:57,516 Speaker 1: why you guys sounded the way send But did that 85 00:04:57,556 --> 00:04:59,716 Speaker 1: sound crazy to you when you heard it? From Maurice 86 00:04:59,756 --> 00:05:00,156 Speaker 1: back then. 87 00:05:00,316 --> 00:05:05,796 Speaker 2: You know, Maurice's vision was too one render a service 88 00:05:05,836 --> 00:05:10,116 Speaker 2: to humanity, you know, so there was a a reason 89 00:05:10,196 --> 00:05:14,356 Speaker 2: for doing the music that was bigger than himself are ourselves. 90 00:05:15,236 --> 00:05:21,556 Speaker 2: And then you know, next it was to bring different 91 00:05:21,636 --> 00:05:28,596 Speaker 2: genres of music together and make them commercial, so you know, 92 00:05:28,716 --> 00:05:33,916 Speaker 2: you're there's something in there for everyone, you know, not 93 00:05:34,036 --> 00:05:37,316 Speaker 2: on one particular song, but in the body of work, 94 00:05:38,236 --> 00:05:40,916 Speaker 2: you know. So, and then the other thing was to 95 00:05:40,996 --> 00:05:46,276 Speaker 2: bring Broadway to the stage, you know, to the concert stage. 96 00:05:46,396 --> 00:05:50,756 Speaker 2: You know. The other one was to elevate the consciousness 97 00:05:50,796 --> 00:05:57,196 Speaker 2: of you know, our listeners and to have a high 98 00:05:57,236 --> 00:06:02,316 Speaker 2: degree of integrity as a musician, because he was like, 99 00:06:02,876 --> 00:06:08,596 Speaker 2: he didn't want to further stereotype great musicianship. But we're 100 00:06:08,636 --> 00:06:10,636 Speaker 2: all strong out you know. 101 00:06:10,916 --> 00:06:13,396 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, So all. 102 00:06:13,196 --> 00:06:16,476 Speaker 2: Those things were and I you know, it was really 103 00:06:16,556 --> 00:06:24,916 Speaker 2: really inspired. All those very clear, distinctive directions were something 104 00:06:24,996 --> 00:06:31,236 Speaker 2: that he went about writing out and and and living out, 105 00:06:31,636 --> 00:06:34,716 Speaker 2: you know, and we were young enough to buy into it, 106 00:06:35,836 --> 00:06:38,876 Speaker 2: and uh, and then we were fortunate enough to work 107 00:06:38,916 --> 00:06:44,796 Speaker 2: with a cast of so many talented people, from the 108 00:06:44,836 --> 00:06:48,836 Speaker 2: record company to the writers, to the arrange arrangers, to 109 00:06:48,956 --> 00:06:50,396 Speaker 2: the musicians. 110 00:06:49,956 --> 00:06:50,596 Speaker 3: Engineer, you know. 111 00:06:50,756 --> 00:06:53,116 Speaker 2: So it was it was a lot of things had 112 00:06:53,156 --> 00:06:55,476 Speaker 2: to connect at the same time and they did. 113 00:06:55,756 --> 00:06:57,636 Speaker 4: Yeah, and we were in the right place at the 114 00:06:57,716 --> 00:07:00,596 Speaker 4: right time, in front of the right people with the 115 00:07:00,676 --> 00:07:05,516 Speaker 4: right music, you know. And and the thing about it is, uh, 116 00:07:05,596 --> 00:07:08,556 Speaker 4: the three of us who were sitting here, as Phillip said, 117 00:07:08,556 --> 00:07:10,676 Speaker 4: we were young enough to buy into it and to 118 00:07:10,716 --> 00:07:13,316 Speaker 4: be part of it and to grow within it and 119 00:07:14,116 --> 00:07:15,836 Speaker 4: be able to express ourselves as well. 120 00:07:15,956 --> 00:07:18,876 Speaker 1: And Philip said something about and I think they talk 121 00:07:18,916 --> 00:07:21,196 Speaker 1: about it in the documentaries, you didn't want to be 122 00:07:21,196 --> 00:07:24,676 Speaker 1: strung out. So no drugs, I mean being healthy and 123 00:07:24,716 --> 00:07:26,716 Speaker 1: no drugs was part of that. 124 00:07:27,036 --> 00:07:29,036 Speaker 2: It was more of a thing not to cut you off. 125 00:07:29,076 --> 00:07:33,796 Speaker 2: But it wasn't something that was like, you know, everybody 126 00:07:33,956 --> 00:07:38,236 Speaker 2: was squeaky clean or whatever. But Maurice led by example, 127 00:07:39,956 --> 00:07:42,436 Speaker 2: and we were young enough for him to be an 128 00:07:42,436 --> 00:07:47,316 Speaker 2: example to us, you know, and it was worth you know, 129 00:07:47,636 --> 00:07:52,156 Speaker 2: we were looking at him and you know, you know, 130 00:07:52,356 --> 00:07:55,196 Speaker 2: he didn't have to say do this or do that. 131 00:07:55,316 --> 00:07:58,956 Speaker 2: It was like the proof was in the pudding, you know, 132 00:07:59,196 --> 00:08:04,276 Speaker 2: like his actions were speaking louder than any words, you know, 133 00:08:04,316 --> 00:08:06,396 Speaker 2: and so it's like, well, give me some of that 134 00:08:06,716 --> 00:08:09,796 Speaker 2: vegetable suit. You know, you know what, let me let 135 00:08:09,796 --> 00:08:12,876 Speaker 2: me check that out, you know at Johnny Wise miller 136 00:08:12,956 --> 00:08:18,956 Speaker 2: on on Hollywood Boulevard, you know, and I had I 137 00:08:18,996 --> 00:08:22,116 Speaker 2: was like, whoa, I felt a little light headed. 138 00:08:22,196 --> 00:08:25,876 Speaker 3: You know, first protein drum. 139 00:08:27,316 --> 00:08:30,796 Speaker 2: My, first healthy shake and stuff for healthy food. 140 00:08:31,196 --> 00:08:31,956 Speaker 4: But it paid off. 141 00:08:32,116 --> 00:08:35,956 Speaker 2: Hey, yes, it was wonderful. You know, it could have win. 142 00:08:36,116 --> 00:08:39,396 Speaker 2: It could have been the opposite, you know, like you know, 143 00:08:39,876 --> 00:08:45,036 Speaker 2: follow me this way led to nothing, but it was productive. 144 00:08:45,196 --> 00:08:48,396 Speaker 3: Yeah, it was very positive, indeed, you know, and we 145 00:08:48,516 --> 00:08:50,276 Speaker 3: just kind of continued on along those lines. 146 00:08:50,596 --> 00:08:52,356 Speaker 1: It made it easy to maybe to buy Ino to 147 00:08:52,476 --> 00:08:56,196 Speaker 1: Maurice because he had had that success early with Chess 148 00:08:56,436 --> 00:08:58,836 Speaker 1: being a drummer, right, which was no small thing. I'm 149 00:08:58,836 --> 00:09:01,076 Speaker 1: sure you know Verdin havn't been there like just to 150 00:09:01,756 --> 00:09:04,076 Speaker 1: he's your brother one day and the next day he's 151 00:09:04,156 --> 00:09:07,036 Speaker 1: drumming on these hit records and he's making a name 152 00:09:07,076 --> 00:09:09,556 Speaker 1: for something. Moving to LA and starting to oh. 153 00:09:09,476 --> 00:09:11,076 Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, I was in college. I had it 154 00:09:11,116 --> 00:09:13,036 Speaker 4: all planned. I was going to be a doctor. I 155 00:09:13,076 --> 00:09:14,316 Speaker 4: was going to do this, I was going to do that. 156 00:09:14,396 --> 00:09:17,116 Speaker 4: Then he called me one day after he had moved 157 00:09:17,116 --> 00:09:20,316 Speaker 4: to California. After leaving the Ramsey Lewis Tree and said, 158 00:09:20,596 --> 00:09:23,156 Speaker 4: you want to come to California, man, And that sounded 159 00:09:23,196 --> 00:09:25,876 Speaker 4: like a little girl. I said sure, and I got 160 00:09:25,916 --> 00:09:29,556 Speaker 4: the first thing smoking about a month later. I came 161 00:09:29,556 --> 00:09:31,956 Speaker 4: out here in California was so different. It was just 162 00:09:32,036 --> 00:09:35,236 Speaker 4: so different. I had never seen so many people, and 163 00:09:35,876 --> 00:09:39,716 Speaker 4: I saw everybody, all the hippies and the music and 164 00:09:40,876 --> 00:09:44,156 Speaker 4: boulevard oh yeah, all that stuff. And so it was 165 00:09:44,156 --> 00:09:47,756 Speaker 4: a great learning experience as well, you know, and as 166 00:09:47,796 --> 00:09:50,756 Speaker 4: I said before in some of our other interviews, the 167 00:09:50,796 --> 00:09:52,276 Speaker 4: three of us became adults together. 168 00:09:52,516 --> 00:09:53,796 Speaker 2: We grew up together. Yeah. 169 00:09:54,676 --> 00:09:59,036 Speaker 4: Yeah, What year did you come to la Verdin June sixth, 170 00:09:59,196 --> 00:10:01,476 Speaker 4: nineteen seventy, nineteen seventy. 171 00:10:02,036 --> 00:10:04,036 Speaker 1: And what did it look like to you? Coming from Chicago? 172 00:10:04,116 --> 00:10:06,036 Speaker 1: What did it? What did la look like? 173 00:10:06,996 --> 00:10:11,476 Speaker 4: Totally different? Everybody friendly, everybody's saying hello, because you know, 174 00:10:11,516 --> 00:10:13,636 Speaker 4: we come out of Chicago. Everybody you know, you know, 175 00:10:14,676 --> 00:10:17,036 Speaker 4: holding their chest, you know, nobody they didn't open up 176 00:10:17,036 --> 00:10:20,036 Speaker 4: to you. But California was like, it was just a 177 00:10:20,116 --> 00:10:22,956 Speaker 4: totally different thing. You know. I'd wave to everybody, Hi, 178 00:10:22,996 --> 00:10:23,956 Speaker 4: how are you? How are you doing? 179 00:10:23,996 --> 00:10:24,196 Speaker 1: Hey? 180 00:10:24,196 --> 00:10:26,396 Speaker 4: How are you? Because they were they were waving right back, 181 00:10:26,596 --> 00:10:29,236 Speaker 4: you know, and so so. 182 00:10:29,116 --> 00:10:31,556 Speaker 3: It was it was different consciousness. 183 00:10:32,356 --> 00:10:35,676 Speaker 4: It was good. It was a great feeling. And and 184 00:10:35,556 --> 00:10:38,116 Speaker 4: H and I also traveled. I was around an adult Maurice, 185 00:10:38,596 --> 00:10:41,516 Speaker 4: who led me the right way, particularly in California, because 186 00:10:41,516 --> 00:10:43,036 Speaker 4: I had never been anywhere. I had never been on 187 00:10:43,076 --> 00:10:46,156 Speaker 4: a plane, I had never I never left home that 188 00:10:46,196 --> 00:10:47,116 Speaker 4: that never did anything. 189 00:10:47,436 --> 00:10:49,676 Speaker 1: And when you got here, you you were already and 190 00:10:49,716 --> 00:10:52,076 Speaker 1: you joined the band. Were they already with Warner Records? 191 00:10:52,956 --> 00:10:55,596 Speaker 1: Had that band with Warner with Warner Brothers? Right? 192 00:10:55,676 --> 00:10:55,836 Speaker 2: Yeah? 193 00:10:55,916 --> 00:10:58,916 Speaker 1: Yeah, so you you come out even been anywhere, you 194 00:10:58,916 --> 00:11:01,676 Speaker 1: come to California and you are you're playing base for 195 00:11:01,716 --> 00:11:04,276 Speaker 1: a band that signed a major label. You're playing with 196 00:11:04,316 --> 00:11:07,636 Speaker 1: your brother. I mean, it had to be a dream 197 00:11:07,676 --> 00:11:08,116 Speaker 1: come true. 198 00:11:08,316 --> 00:11:10,396 Speaker 4: We did the True records on Warner Brothers. And I 199 00:11:10,396 --> 00:11:12,556 Speaker 4: didn't even look at it. I was so young, I 200 00:11:12,556 --> 00:11:15,276 Speaker 4: didn't even look at it as a major label. I 201 00:11:15,316 --> 00:11:16,756 Speaker 4: just look at it. We're going to make a record, 202 00:11:17,036 --> 00:11:20,636 Speaker 4: you know, And and then you know, we just kept 203 00:11:20,676 --> 00:11:25,636 Speaker 4: doing it, and you know, of course that evolved and 204 00:11:25,796 --> 00:11:30,156 Speaker 4: out here in California, you know, that's where I met Philip, Yeah, 205 00:11:30,436 --> 00:11:31,676 Speaker 4: an Ralph, do you guys. 206 00:11:31,476 --> 00:11:33,156 Speaker 1: Want to talk about how you guys joined the band. 207 00:11:33,356 --> 00:11:36,396 Speaker 3: I was playing at a club down on crunch t 208 00:11:36,396 --> 00:11:39,196 Speaker 3: Ofu Boulevard. The building is still there, was called Maverick's Flat. 209 00:11:39,436 --> 00:11:42,196 Speaker 3: I was playing at a club and uh, oh you know, 210 00:11:43,156 --> 00:11:47,236 Speaker 3: you know famous, uh, the famous spot. And I was 211 00:11:47,276 --> 00:11:50,196 Speaker 3: playing there and Dean and Maurice came into town. They 212 00:11:50,196 --> 00:11:53,036 Speaker 3: saw me playing with this group called the Master's Children. 213 00:11:53,436 --> 00:11:55,556 Speaker 3: And the next thing I knew, the guitar player at 214 00:11:55,556 --> 00:11:57,676 Speaker 3: that time with the group, his name was Michael Beal, 215 00:11:57,796 --> 00:12:00,356 Speaker 3: called me up and asked me if I wanted to audition. 216 00:12:00,436 --> 00:12:03,596 Speaker 3: I said yeah, sure, so I did the audition and 217 00:12:03,676 --> 00:12:06,996 Speaker 3: after the audition Verdeen called Maurice and Maurice said, well 218 00:12:06,996 --> 00:12:09,996 Speaker 3: what do you think and verdein so, yeah, he's the cat, 219 00:12:10,076 --> 00:12:12,156 Speaker 3: And we just kind of went on from there and 220 00:12:13,156 --> 00:12:13,716 Speaker 3: kept going. 221 00:12:14,236 --> 00:12:17,996 Speaker 1: Did you know Maurice was a drummer when play with 222 00:12:18,396 --> 00:12:19,596 Speaker 1: Ramsey Lewis you did? 223 00:12:19,796 --> 00:12:20,956 Speaker 2: Yeah? Live? 224 00:12:21,356 --> 00:12:24,116 Speaker 3: Not live? No, I saw it on TV. But I mean, 225 00:12:24,196 --> 00:12:28,836 Speaker 3: but think about this though. A jazz drummer wakes up 226 00:12:28,876 --> 00:12:32,236 Speaker 3: one day and says, hmm, I'm going to start a pop, 227 00:12:32,316 --> 00:12:34,156 Speaker 3: some pop R and B thing. I don't know what 228 00:12:34,196 --> 00:12:36,516 Speaker 3: it's going to be, but I'm starting it and this 229 00:12:36,596 --> 00:12:38,756 Speaker 3: is what it is today. Yeah, who does that? 230 00:12:40,276 --> 00:12:44,836 Speaker 2: He was specific about what he wanted to do, you know, 231 00:12:45,436 --> 00:12:49,676 Speaker 2: because and this was what was interesting on the documentary 232 00:12:50,516 --> 00:12:56,876 Speaker 2: that when Bob Cavallo and uh, several other people talk 233 00:12:56,956 --> 00:13:02,236 Speaker 2: to Maurice about, you know, the vision that he had 234 00:13:03,236 --> 00:13:09,116 Speaker 2: was going to be better realized by having some younger guys. Yeah, 235 00:13:09,196 --> 00:13:16,636 Speaker 2: everybody being Verdine's age, you know. Then you know, that's 236 00:13:16,676 --> 00:13:20,636 Speaker 2: when they began to look around. And they had met 237 00:13:20,676 --> 00:13:24,876 Speaker 2: me in Denver, where you grew up, right, yep. And 238 00:13:25,916 --> 00:13:31,236 Speaker 2: the first band, our band had opened the show for 239 00:13:31,236 --> 00:13:36,476 Speaker 2: for them their promotion show, and uh, through you know, 240 00:13:36,916 --> 00:13:42,316 Speaker 2: Perry Jones, who was a mentor of ours. But yeah, 241 00:13:42,556 --> 00:13:47,116 Speaker 2: you know, we were able to meet Maurice had Maurice 242 00:13:47,116 --> 00:13:51,236 Speaker 2: had on bell bottom pants and he smelled like coconut oil. 243 00:13:52,796 --> 00:13:54,956 Speaker 2: I remember that so distinctly because I'm a you know, 244 00:13:55,356 --> 00:13:59,316 Speaker 2: a hick town called Denver boy, and we don't know 245 00:13:59,356 --> 00:14:03,756 Speaker 2: nothing about no no, you know, send it oils. 246 00:14:03,876 --> 00:14:05,316 Speaker 1: You know. 247 00:14:05,396 --> 00:14:08,156 Speaker 2: So it's like I knew I could, I could. I 248 00:14:08,196 --> 00:14:10,356 Speaker 2: smelled it cocainut, you know. 249 00:14:10,436 --> 00:14:14,356 Speaker 1: Which also had hippies out, and yeah, you're right, Yeah, heck, yeah, 250 00:14:14,556 --> 00:14:18,156 Speaker 1: that was hippie Nation. Were you into rock music at all? 251 00:14:18,916 --> 00:14:21,956 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean very much. So, you know, being 252 00:14:21,956 --> 00:14:28,556 Speaker 2: from Colorado, it was you know a plethora of music 253 00:14:29,476 --> 00:14:33,876 Speaker 2: from indigenous music to you know, country to popped rocked 254 00:14:34,756 --> 00:14:40,316 Speaker 2: very little R and B music on the radio that 255 00:14:40,556 --> 00:14:44,476 Speaker 2: we only had it from certain hours of the day, 256 00:14:44,956 --> 00:14:48,156 Speaker 2: you know, and then later on it became twenty four 257 00:14:48,196 --> 00:14:52,596 Speaker 2: hours on one of the stations. But yeah, my education 258 00:14:53,196 --> 00:15:02,396 Speaker 2: really in cultural music grew being in the fire. Yeah. Yeah. 259 00:15:02,836 --> 00:15:05,596 Speaker 1: Would you guys listen to music together? Pick out what 260 00:15:06,676 --> 00:15:06,956 Speaker 1: it was. 261 00:15:06,996 --> 00:15:09,036 Speaker 2: Like a college? It was like being in a universe 262 00:15:09,956 --> 00:15:17,356 Speaker 2: because you had Maurice's comrades, Don Myrek and Saderfield and 263 00:15:17,356 --> 00:15:21,196 Speaker 2: and so they were they were older than us and 264 00:15:21,476 --> 00:15:28,916 Speaker 2: had had a lot more experience overall musically, so they 265 00:15:28,956 --> 00:15:33,316 Speaker 2: would you know, take us under their wing and mentor us, 266 00:15:33,356 --> 00:15:38,516 Speaker 2: you know, and you know, into the music, and you know, 267 00:15:38,596 --> 00:15:43,516 Speaker 2: so it was and we were always together. So it 268 00:15:43,636 --> 00:15:46,556 Speaker 2: was like being on a traveling school. 269 00:15:47,676 --> 00:15:49,116 Speaker 1: You just want to play two things, maybe just to 270 00:15:49,116 --> 00:15:52,476 Speaker 1: illustrate the way the band evolved from those first couple 271 00:15:52,476 --> 00:15:55,396 Speaker 1: of Warner records where you guys aren't involved yet and 272 00:15:55,396 --> 00:15:58,196 Speaker 1: then and then kind of where the sound goes pretty quickly. 273 00:16:09,156 --> 00:16:12,956 Speaker 4: Get it and let's stick back because that, yeah, I 274 00:16:13,156 --> 00:16:13,716 Speaker 4: remember that. 275 00:16:13,836 --> 00:16:24,156 Speaker 1: Yeah, Handwriting's on the Wall. 276 00:16:22,996 --> 00:16:24,276 Speaker 2: Was that sweep? 277 00:16:24,636 --> 00:16:28,516 Speaker 1: This came out on uh after you guys left Warner 278 00:16:28,516 --> 00:16:32,076 Speaker 1: they put out the greatest Hits album look like that. 279 00:16:32,436 --> 00:16:36,036 Speaker 1: It's never but yeah, yeah, yeah, and this, and it's 280 00:16:36,076 --> 00:16:38,196 Speaker 1: just most like early on, you guys have more of 281 00:16:38,236 --> 00:16:41,596 Speaker 1: a almost just kind of you guys are more funk 282 00:16:41,716 --> 00:16:45,836 Speaker 1: and kind of in the in the it's it's less jazzy, 283 00:16:46,036 --> 00:16:50,196 Speaker 1: you know, it's a little less jazzy blues rooted music. 284 00:16:50,516 --> 00:16:53,356 Speaker 1: Not that the kids away from the blues, but this 285 00:16:53,436 --> 00:16:54,956 Speaker 1: is great. But you go from like this kind of 286 00:16:54,956 --> 00:17:00,236 Speaker 1: a thing and sweet sweet back with Melvin van Peebles 287 00:17:00,756 --> 00:17:04,916 Speaker 1: to something like this, which is just one two years later. 288 00:17:37,036 --> 00:17:38,396 Speaker 1: I want to wait for the vocal to come in 289 00:17:38,436 --> 00:17:38,836 Speaker 1: real quick. 290 00:17:45,476 --> 00:17:54,996 Speaker 5: Lesa to he wand I find in every week. 291 00:17:56,516 --> 00:17:58,956 Speaker 3: Burd inside for. 292 00:17:59,556 --> 00:18:07,436 Speaker 1: The clue no thing that was bound to do. Keep 293 00:18:07,596 --> 00:18:09,996 Speaker 1: my head. It's like you you can hear the old 294 00:18:10,116 --> 00:18:14,156 Speaker 1: band and then you can hear how it filled out 295 00:18:14,196 --> 00:18:15,276 Speaker 1: even more with you guys. 296 00:18:15,676 --> 00:18:18,836 Speaker 4: Theis is there, the genesis, You're there all the things 297 00:18:19,316 --> 00:18:22,156 Speaker 4: in the beginning you know, you know, had it was growing, 298 00:18:22,276 --> 00:18:24,836 Speaker 4: but the genesis of Earth Winning Fire was there. 299 00:18:25,036 --> 00:18:27,676 Speaker 3: Yeah, with this right here is denying. This is the 300 00:18:27,716 --> 00:18:30,876 Speaker 3: group that would go on to conquer the world. 301 00:18:31,116 --> 00:18:35,756 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, you know yeah, conceptually you can hear that 302 00:18:35,996 --> 00:18:42,556 Speaker 2: Maurice uh had a vision for the music from the 303 00:18:43,396 --> 00:18:47,236 Speaker 2: first Earth Winding Fire because when you listen to Sherry Scott, 304 00:18:47,836 --> 00:18:50,636 Speaker 2: you know, I think about loving you and all that 305 00:18:50,796 --> 00:18:55,316 Speaker 2: kind of stuff. Well, you know, I'm I'm the second generation, 306 00:18:56,196 --> 00:18:58,596 Speaker 2: you know, so like you listen ahead to the sky, 307 00:18:59,316 --> 00:19:02,036 Speaker 2: you know, you can hear that it's not so out 308 00:19:02,116 --> 00:19:05,796 Speaker 2: of the blue because it you know, it was there 309 00:19:06,036 --> 00:19:10,156 Speaker 2: with those records that they were doing one you know, 310 00:19:10,276 --> 00:19:14,036 Speaker 2: but this is just a different you know, it's like 311 00:19:14,076 --> 00:19:15,276 Speaker 2: an extension extension. 312 00:19:15,356 --> 00:19:17,356 Speaker 1: It really almost feels like it's like almost just like 313 00:19:17,396 --> 00:19:19,476 Speaker 1: a music. It's like a chord, regular chord. Then you 314 00:19:19,596 --> 00:19:21,916 Speaker 1: just had the ninth eleventh. 315 00:19:23,516 --> 00:19:24,036 Speaker 3: Analogy. 316 00:19:24,716 --> 00:19:27,036 Speaker 1: Who were the not you said that those were you 317 00:19:27,076 --> 00:19:27,796 Speaker 1: know you want to say that. 318 00:19:28,356 --> 00:19:34,156 Speaker 3: Well, you had Maurice Dean Phil, you had Johnny al 319 00:19:35,196 --> 00:19:38,356 Speaker 3: Both on guitar, right right, You had Larry on keyboards. Yeah, 320 00:19:38,556 --> 00:19:41,156 Speaker 3: you had myself from Freddy and then Andrew. 321 00:19:41,436 --> 00:19:44,436 Speaker 6: Yeah, the nine yeah, and then even beyond that, then 322 00:19:44,796 --> 00:19:48,516 Speaker 6: someone like on that Jessica Cleaves is on there too, 323 00:19:48,876 --> 00:19:50,956 Speaker 6: but Jessica would leave and we would be left with 324 00:19:51,036 --> 00:19:53,076 Speaker 6: the nine guys, you know. 325 00:19:53,436 --> 00:19:55,436 Speaker 1: So it's just an unbelievable how did you guys? So, 326 00:19:55,956 --> 00:19:58,836 Speaker 1: just like you said, this is a band. Maurice is 327 00:19:58,836 --> 00:20:04,476 Speaker 1: a drummer, You're a drummer. D Phillips a drummer, Verdin 328 00:20:04,556 --> 00:20:06,876 Speaker 1: and Maurice's brother Fred is a drummer. 329 00:20:07,196 --> 00:20:10,356 Speaker 2: And Al McKay was a drummer, right, mkay was a drummer. 330 00:20:10,596 --> 00:20:13,516 Speaker 1: You're a singer. Maurice is a singer. You're a singer. 331 00:20:14,956 --> 00:20:18,156 Speaker 1: Jessica Scleeves is the singer. It's like a how did 332 00:20:18,196 --> 00:20:21,676 Speaker 1: you guys balance the embarrassment of riches you guys had 333 00:20:21,716 --> 00:20:24,476 Speaker 1: in the group? How did you orchestrate? How did you 334 00:20:24,676 --> 00:20:26,756 Speaker 1: know if someone came in the study with the song? 335 00:20:26,916 --> 00:20:29,076 Speaker 1: How did you know who was going to do what? 336 00:20:29,556 --> 00:20:34,196 Speaker 2: Well? It kind of evolved, you know, and Maurice being 337 00:20:34,516 --> 00:20:39,996 Speaker 2: the spearhead, he he didn't always know exactly what he wanted, 338 00:20:40,276 --> 00:20:43,996 Speaker 2: but he knew what he didn't want, you know, and 339 00:20:44,436 --> 00:20:50,636 Speaker 2: so you know, if there were ideas that that fit 340 00:20:50,716 --> 00:20:54,636 Speaker 2: into you know, the consciousness of where he was going 341 00:20:54,716 --> 00:20:58,876 Speaker 2: for the band, he would develop those ideas. 342 00:20:59,036 --> 00:21:01,476 Speaker 1: Would you guys just try to if he knew what 343 00:21:01,556 --> 00:21:04,796 Speaker 1: he didn't necessarily always know exactly what he wanted, but 344 00:21:04,876 --> 00:21:06,556 Speaker 1: knew what he didn't want. Would that mean that you 345 00:21:06,596 --> 00:21:08,236 Speaker 1: guys would just try to contribute things. 346 00:21:09,196 --> 00:21:14,796 Speaker 2: Funny thing though, you could always tell when he didn't 347 00:21:14,916 --> 00:21:23,636 Speaker 2: like something. He goes, yeah, yeah, pretty pretty nice little 348 00:21:24,076 --> 00:21:27,276 Speaker 2: piece you got there. You know, he would say very 349 00:21:27,316 --> 00:21:30,516 Speaker 2: little about it. He would call it, or he would 350 00:21:30,556 --> 00:21:37,916 Speaker 2: say pretty nice little that was like that was like 351 00:21:38,156 --> 00:21:42,756 Speaker 2: you know that, you know, that was a bless not yet, 352 00:21:42,996 --> 00:21:47,156 Speaker 2: not yet. But if he if if there was something 353 00:21:47,556 --> 00:21:51,236 Speaker 2: that you know, that you that you brought that you know, 354 00:21:52,756 --> 00:21:55,516 Speaker 2: clicks with him, he would jump right he would jump 355 00:21:55,596 --> 00:21:55,996 Speaker 2: right on it. 356 00:21:56,316 --> 00:21:56,476 Speaker 4: You know. 357 00:21:56,676 --> 00:22:00,476 Speaker 2: Like my first collaboration was evil, you know, and it 358 00:22:00,636 --> 00:22:03,516 Speaker 2: was like it was surreal to me because I had 359 00:22:03,716 --> 00:22:06,356 Speaker 2: this idea and I showed it to him, and then 360 00:22:06,396 --> 00:22:08,956 Speaker 2: the next thing I knew, he said, you know that 361 00:22:09,236 --> 00:22:12,076 Speaker 2: you know that little piece showing me, Oh, this is 362 00:22:12,116 --> 00:22:12,916 Speaker 2: what I did with it? 363 00:22:15,196 --> 00:22:17,356 Speaker 1: What how did you bring evil to him? 364 00:22:17,356 --> 00:22:22,836 Speaker 2: What did you I had the sea plot, the evil thing, 365 00:22:22,916 --> 00:22:27,036 Speaker 2: and I had lyrics and I had a melody and stuff, 366 00:22:27,116 --> 00:22:30,996 Speaker 2: but he flipped. He flipped all that. He really heard 367 00:22:31,796 --> 00:22:36,036 Speaker 2: you know what I was trying to do, you know, yeah, 368 00:22:36,396 --> 00:22:40,956 Speaker 2: and it was inspiring to him enough to take the 369 00:22:41,076 --> 00:22:43,556 Speaker 2: situation and flip it. Wow. 370 00:22:43,796 --> 00:22:45,636 Speaker 3: Here's the question. So, at the time that you started 371 00:22:45,676 --> 00:22:48,876 Speaker 3: writing with him, did you really really understand the value 372 00:22:48,916 --> 00:22:50,596 Speaker 3: of the writing and the publishing side of it. 373 00:22:50,716 --> 00:22:54,476 Speaker 2: Oh heck no, okay, yeah i't. I ain't understand that 374 00:22:54,596 --> 00:22:55,276 Speaker 2: till yesterday. 375 00:23:00,476 --> 00:23:04,356 Speaker 3: Oh man, Oh wow, okay, yeah, I'm still waiting to 376 00:23:04,796 --> 00:23:08,116 Speaker 3: some money out there waiting for you to explain all that. 377 00:23:08,196 --> 00:23:08,876 Speaker 5: Oh my god. 378 00:23:09,156 --> 00:23:10,396 Speaker 3: Okay, yes, but you. 379 00:23:10,436 --> 00:23:13,236 Speaker 1: Were code writer on that, right, You did get credit 380 00:23:13,276 --> 00:23:14,596 Speaker 1: on yeah, ye yeah. 381 00:23:14,476 --> 00:23:16,596 Speaker 2: That's why I said that was my first you know, 382 00:23:17,476 --> 00:23:19,996 Speaker 2: real co written ye venture. 383 00:23:20,276 --> 00:23:20,476 Speaker 4: Yeah. 384 00:23:21,996 --> 00:23:24,036 Speaker 1: We'll be back with more from Earthen and Fire after 385 00:23:24,116 --> 00:23:30,516 Speaker 1: the break. And for Dean, how did you? You are 386 00:23:30,636 --> 00:23:34,396 Speaker 1: such a unique bass player. I mean, you have the 387 00:23:34,476 --> 00:23:37,316 Speaker 1: lowen thing going, You kind of have that cool James 388 00:23:37,396 --> 00:23:41,636 Speaker 1: Jamerson melodic harmonic complexity thing going like I mean, but 389 00:23:42,436 --> 00:23:45,516 Speaker 1: you're almost like the best of all basis, like you 390 00:23:45,636 --> 00:23:48,156 Speaker 1: have a little bit of everything of all those different 391 00:23:48,156 --> 00:23:49,556 Speaker 1: styles in you, you know what I mean? 392 00:23:49,836 --> 00:23:51,396 Speaker 4: Well, for me, first of all, you know, I love 393 00:23:51,436 --> 00:23:54,436 Speaker 4: the bass. You know, I love the sound of it. 394 00:23:54,676 --> 00:23:57,756 Speaker 4: When I when I first saw the bass, it spoke 395 00:23:57,836 --> 00:24:01,156 Speaker 4: to me. It spoke to me, you know, you said, 396 00:24:01,156 --> 00:24:04,476 Speaker 4: I want to play this. The bass came at me. Wow, 397 00:24:04,596 --> 00:24:07,236 Speaker 4: you know, and and it was upright, bas basis bigger 398 00:24:07,276 --> 00:24:10,596 Speaker 4: than I was at the time, you know. And uh, 399 00:24:10,836 --> 00:24:13,036 Speaker 4: and then I was able to like really coming out 400 00:24:13,076 --> 00:24:15,556 Speaker 4: of Chicago, you know, you know, you were you were 401 00:24:15,596 --> 00:24:19,876 Speaker 4: talking earlier, the different genres of music coming out of Chicago, 402 00:24:20,436 --> 00:24:25,076 Speaker 4: you know, R and B, jazz, pop. You know, there 403 00:24:25,156 --> 00:24:27,476 Speaker 4: was a lot of different genres for me to pull from. 404 00:24:28,116 --> 00:24:31,076 Speaker 4: So when I would hear something, I automatically hurt the 405 00:24:31,116 --> 00:24:34,836 Speaker 4: bass within it. And then when I came to California, 406 00:24:36,036 --> 00:24:39,076 Speaker 4: it really crystallized because we were able to I was 407 00:24:39,076 --> 00:24:44,236 Speaker 4: able to really concentrate on on music, on the bass, 408 00:24:44,316 --> 00:24:47,316 Speaker 4: and then later on putting the bass where the where 409 00:24:47,316 --> 00:24:50,116 Speaker 4: the bass fit? Yeah, you know, you know, because at 410 00:24:50,156 --> 00:24:52,196 Speaker 4: first when I started started playing, cut the bass up, 411 00:24:52,196 --> 00:24:54,476 Speaker 4: cut the bass up. Well, you have to put the 412 00:24:54,476 --> 00:24:58,316 Speaker 4: bass within the track of what it sounds like. In 413 00:24:58,316 --> 00:25:00,196 Speaker 4: other words, you don't want to just to stand out right. 414 00:25:00,276 --> 00:25:02,356 Speaker 4: You wanted to stand out in a certain way, but 415 00:25:02,476 --> 00:25:05,116 Speaker 4: you wanted to be part of the song. 416 00:25:05,476 --> 00:25:06,076 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know. 417 00:25:06,316 --> 00:25:08,196 Speaker 4: And that's that's what I learned when I came here 418 00:25:08,316 --> 00:25:13,676 Speaker 4: and you played earlier two songs. But for me, the 419 00:25:13,756 --> 00:25:15,636 Speaker 4: first two Earth Winy five records, I was sort of 420 00:25:15,716 --> 00:25:18,716 Speaker 4: like winging it a little bit, you know, winging. But 421 00:25:18,876 --> 00:25:22,316 Speaker 4: the record that crystallized from me was the Need of 422 00:25:22,396 --> 00:25:28,796 Speaker 4: Love album really from me, the tune Energy, I'm gonna 423 00:25:28,796 --> 00:25:31,396 Speaker 4: play That's what that's really when it came together for 424 00:25:31,556 --> 00:25:36,716 Speaker 4: me because the records much more looser. You know, I 425 00:25:36,876 --> 00:25:40,356 Speaker 4: was really hearing growing into it, growing into it, whereas 426 00:25:40,356 --> 00:25:41,996 Speaker 4: I was just trying to hang on on the first record. 427 00:25:42,356 --> 00:25:46,276 Speaker 4: You know, I did a record, whereas now I'm doing 428 00:25:46,316 --> 00:25:48,676 Speaker 4: a record. So how do I how do I implant 429 00:25:48,716 --> 00:25:51,316 Speaker 4: myself within the record. And the tune that did it 430 00:25:51,436 --> 00:25:53,916 Speaker 4: for me was a tune called Energy. 431 00:25:54,596 --> 00:25:56,316 Speaker 2: Was that I could feel it in my bones. 432 00:26:01,916 --> 00:26:04,156 Speaker 4: Right right right, and then it then it goes left, 433 00:26:05,236 --> 00:26:09,236 Speaker 4: It goes left into some Miles David stuff and I 434 00:26:09,356 --> 00:26:11,276 Speaker 4: was right there with it too, man, you know, And 435 00:26:11,396 --> 00:26:14,756 Speaker 4: that was those were those were things that couldn't be explained. Yeah, 436 00:26:14,796 --> 00:26:16,556 Speaker 4: when you get to this section, you gotta do this here. 437 00:26:16,916 --> 00:26:19,276 Speaker 4: It was like it just you just knew you had 438 00:26:19,316 --> 00:26:22,116 Speaker 4: to hear it. It just it just switched, It just went, 439 00:26:22,236 --> 00:26:24,076 Speaker 4: you know, because it started off as a drum solo 440 00:26:24,156 --> 00:26:26,676 Speaker 4: with Maurice doing it, then got into the tunes and 441 00:26:26,716 --> 00:26:28,916 Speaker 4: all of a sudden it just turned and it just 442 00:26:29,036 --> 00:26:31,316 Speaker 4: kept it kept it kept going. 443 00:26:31,676 --> 00:26:34,836 Speaker 2: Yeah. But you know, it's a you know that story. 444 00:26:34,916 --> 00:26:39,716 Speaker 2: It's a testament to the fact that Verting was not 445 00:26:39,876 --> 00:26:46,116 Speaker 2: only really really gifted as a musician basis, but he 446 00:26:46,436 --> 00:26:51,876 Speaker 2: was destined. It was destiny, you know, because when you 447 00:26:52,036 --> 00:26:54,556 Speaker 2: tell when he tells that story and you think about, 448 00:26:55,196 --> 00:27:01,036 Speaker 2: you know, the what most musicians know at a certain 449 00:27:01,076 --> 00:27:04,876 Speaker 2: point in their in their careers and their recording careers. 450 00:27:05,596 --> 00:27:10,036 Speaker 2: He was so young to it, you know. Yeah, and 451 00:27:10,436 --> 00:27:13,836 Speaker 2: and laying it down in a fashion in which he 452 00:27:13,996 --> 00:27:18,516 Speaker 2: did was just very extraordinary. 453 00:27:18,196 --> 00:27:19,996 Speaker 1: I think. Just to illustrate that too, and what what 454 00:27:20,236 --> 00:27:22,556 Speaker 1: Maurice brought to a song and what you guys also 455 00:27:22,596 --> 00:27:24,716 Speaker 1: collectively as a group brought to a song, I want 456 00:27:24,756 --> 00:27:27,476 Speaker 1: to play a little bit of the creative source version 457 00:27:27,516 --> 00:27:30,636 Speaker 1: of you can't high Love version. You can just hear 458 00:27:30,676 --> 00:27:32,996 Speaker 1: the difference between how you guys get ahold. 459 00:27:32,756 --> 00:27:49,116 Speaker 5: Of a song and you know, no, he wasn't in it, okay, 460 00:28:15,676 --> 00:28:20,876 Speaker 5: and it's it's cool, but it's not a classic until. 461 00:28:23,836 --> 00:28:27,836 Speaker 1: Right right, step got a whole Well, Charles Stephane, you 462 00:28:27,916 --> 00:28:28,876 Speaker 1: saying yeah. 463 00:28:43,196 --> 00:28:44,836 Speaker 4: And then res on the times I think coming. 464 00:28:44,636 --> 00:28:44,996 Speaker 6: To him. 465 00:28:47,756 --> 00:28:50,516 Speaker 1: You want my love and you have an. 466 00:28:54,236 --> 00:28:55,236 Speaker 2: You know it's true. 467 00:28:55,996 --> 00:29:00,236 Speaker 1: Try it's like you can hear the song actually now yeah, 468 00:29:00,396 --> 00:29:02,556 Speaker 1: and there's still this crazy arrangement around it, but it 469 00:29:02,596 --> 00:29:03,916 Speaker 1: doesn't distract from the song. 470 00:29:04,236 --> 00:29:05,916 Speaker 4: That other version, where as we called it, it was 471 00:29:05,956 --> 00:29:06,796 Speaker 4: a hippo version. 472 00:29:07,076 --> 00:29:07,996 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was hip. 473 00:29:08,156 --> 00:29:11,276 Speaker 4: Where's the other version of Can't Handle? Kind of remind 474 00:29:11,316 --> 00:29:12,836 Speaker 4: me of a Fifth Dimensions? 475 00:29:13,116 --> 00:29:13,876 Speaker 1: It was very much a. 476 00:29:15,516 --> 00:29:15,876 Speaker 2: Concept. 477 00:29:16,476 --> 00:29:18,396 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's the way it was. 478 00:29:18,436 --> 00:29:23,596 Speaker 2: Interesting because the because Skip and Jerry and them were there, 479 00:29:23,836 --> 00:29:27,036 Speaker 2: they were working with you know, the Fifth Dimensions writing 480 00:29:27,196 --> 00:29:30,596 Speaker 2: songs and stuff, working with friends and the Friends of 481 00:29:30,676 --> 00:29:32,756 Speaker 2: Distinction and all that kind of stuff. So you can 482 00:29:32,876 --> 00:29:36,156 Speaker 2: kind of see where that where that was going vocal groups. 483 00:29:36,916 --> 00:29:42,596 Speaker 2: But that dog on Charles Stepney was just you know, 484 00:29:42,956 --> 00:29:45,476 Speaker 2: if there wasn't a Charles Stepney, there would not be 485 00:29:45,556 --> 00:29:49,476 Speaker 2: an Earth on fire because he was just he was 486 00:29:49,676 --> 00:29:54,476 Speaker 2: that important to you know, what we were to become 487 00:29:55,396 --> 00:29:59,956 Speaker 2: so Maurice was the visionary, but Charles kitt was able 488 00:30:00,116 --> 00:30:07,996 Speaker 2: to He was the consummate writer, producers, musician, arranger that 489 00:30:08,196 --> 00:30:13,436 Speaker 2: he was able to to really hear where Murice's thought. 490 00:30:13,516 --> 00:30:16,436 Speaker 2: He wanted to go and say, Okay, this is the 491 00:30:16,476 --> 00:30:19,876 Speaker 2: way you arrive at that destination. This is the way 492 00:30:19,916 --> 00:30:21,596 Speaker 2: you do it, and I could show you. 493 00:30:21,956 --> 00:30:23,676 Speaker 1: For people who don't know you guys want to say, 494 00:30:23,676 --> 00:30:25,956 Speaker 1: who Charles Stepney. I don't think it's a name everyone 495 00:30:26,076 --> 00:30:27,076 Speaker 1: readily knows. 496 00:30:26,916 --> 00:30:28,836 Speaker 2: You know, but yeah, and it's you know, it's it's 497 00:30:28,996 --> 00:30:33,476 Speaker 2: it's a shame because Charles Stepney was the co producer 498 00:30:34,276 --> 00:30:36,756 Speaker 2: and I take the co off. You know, he was 499 00:30:36,836 --> 00:30:38,476 Speaker 2: the producer with Maurice on. 500 00:30:40,276 --> 00:30:43,556 Speaker 3: The records, arranger. 501 00:30:43,716 --> 00:30:47,276 Speaker 2: And the and the arranger and you know, and you 502 00:30:47,396 --> 00:30:51,556 Speaker 2: know he he was able to guide me as a 503 00:30:52,116 --> 00:30:56,716 Speaker 2: vocalist on how to sing, reasons and how they record, 504 00:30:56,836 --> 00:31:01,116 Speaker 2: how to think, you know, and and when not to think. 505 00:31:02,156 --> 00:31:04,836 Speaker 2: You know. But he was like a he was like 506 00:31:04,956 --> 00:31:10,356 Speaker 2: a big brother and you know accounts he was. He was, 507 00:31:10,556 --> 00:31:13,396 Speaker 2: he was He could be everything you know to us 508 00:31:13,476 --> 00:31:14,876 Speaker 2: at just the right time. 509 00:31:15,196 --> 00:31:20,276 Speaker 4: He was like our Quincy Jones, our George Martin like that. 510 00:31:20,356 --> 00:31:23,356 Speaker 4: The Beatles had because we had these ideas, but he 511 00:31:23,596 --> 00:31:26,796 Speaker 4: was able to walk us through it and as Phillip said, 512 00:31:26,836 --> 00:31:29,476 Speaker 4: how to get there. But he did it in a 513 00:31:29,516 --> 00:31:31,916 Speaker 4: way he would teach you, you know, like he would 514 00:31:32,236 --> 00:31:35,116 Speaker 4: on basis said, okay, give me a double slop, and 515 00:31:35,156 --> 00:31:36,996 Speaker 4: I didn't know what the double slop was, so we 516 00:31:37,276 --> 00:31:39,156 Speaker 4: so we said, okay, we're gonna put it together. We're 517 00:31:39,156 --> 00:31:43,756 Speaker 4: gonna see g and then you just go down. Then 518 00:31:43,756 --> 00:31:45,956 Speaker 4: we go down to scale, go down, and he would 519 00:31:45,996 --> 00:31:47,236 Speaker 4: teach you why you were doing it. 520 00:31:47,516 --> 00:31:50,836 Speaker 2: He would, he would really teach you, and he would 521 00:31:50,916 --> 00:31:53,436 Speaker 2: and it wouldn't always it wouldn't go above your head, 522 00:31:53,756 --> 00:31:56,916 Speaker 2: you know, because you know, these these progressions and stuff. 523 00:31:57,996 --> 00:32:01,156 Speaker 2: We might have not been a lot of the musicians 524 00:32:01,276 --> 00:32:03,956 Speaker 2: may not have been as sophisticated as the ones they're 525 00:32:03,956 --> 00:32:08,116 Speaker 2: playing in our band today, you know. But Charles was 526 00:32:08,196 --> 00:32:12,276 Speaker 2: able to say, you know, play this triad and leave 527 00:32:12,396 --> 00:32:15,516 Speaker 2: this out. You know, you play this and leave this, 528 00:32:15,916 --> 00:32:19,836 Speaker 2: you know, and and derived at what he wanted to 529 00:32:19,916 --> 00:32:23,916 Speaker 2: hear without overwhelming the musicians with the theory. 530 00:32:24,716 --> 00:32:28,356 Speaker 1: And that's and that's a big part of the arrangements 531 00:32:28,356 --> 00:32:31,316 Speaker 1: are such a crucial part of you guys, because just 532 00:32:31,396 --> 00:32:34,916 Speaker 1: like in that song. It's like the arrangement is really insane, 533 00:32:35,076 --> 00:32:38,036 Speaker 1: it's really crazy. It's a wild arrangement, but it doesn't 534 00:32:38,076 --> 00:32:40,316 Speaker 1: obscure the song. It doesn't obscure what you guys are 535 00:32:40,356 --> 00:32:43,636 Speaker 1: doing with the song exactly. It's very similar to Quincy 536 00:32:43,956 --> 00:32:46,516 Speaker 1: or George Martin right like the way it's he could 537 00:32:46,556 --> 00:32:50,796 Speaker 1: really take musicians and teach them something different, but not 538 00:32:50,956 --> 00:32:54,156 Speaker 1: take away from the song. There was an album Charles 539 00:32:54,156 --> 00:32:57,236 Speaker 1: step News his family put out an album of some 540 00:32:57,316 --> 00:33:00,596 Speaker 1: of his stuff before and on it a couple of 541 00:33:00,676 --> 00:33:03,156 Speaker 1: years ago. They have the early demo of That's the 542 00:33:03,196 --> 00:33:05,276 Speaker 1: Way of the World on there. Oh and play a 543 00:33:05,316 --> 00:33:05,796 Speaker 1: little bit of that? 544 00:33:07,196 --> 00:33:09,356 Speaker 2: Is it like a salsa kind of thing? 545 00:33:10,076 --> 00:33:11,116 Speaker 3: Whoa really? 546 00:33:11,276 --> 00:33:14,516 Speaker 2: Because I remember I remember hearing That's the Way of 547 00:33:14,596 --> 00:33:20,716 Speaker 2: the World, but it was a different groove. Okay, see 548 00:33:20,836 --> 00:33:25,276 Speaker 2: go see. And this is how we would hear stuff 549 00:33:25,596 --> 00:33:28,996 Speaker 2: that Charles would bring because he would be down there 550 00:33:29,196 --> 00:33:33,956 Speaker 2: in that day basement tickering and stuff and he would. 551 00:33:36,156 --> 00:33:42,516 Speaker 3: That's got how Larry started on that move synthesizer, and 552 00:33:42,636 --> 00:33:43,956 Speaker 3: Larry took it and ran with it. 553 00:34:01,676 --> 00:34:04,436 Speaker 1: But as cool as that is, I mean to to 554 00:34:04,876 --> 00:34:08,796 Speaker 1: for for to turn up for this to be the 555 00:34:08,876 --> 00:34:09,996 Speaker 1: fire result. 556 00:34:13,356 --> 00:34:17,036 Speaker 3: Unbelievable. That's what the production is about, Yeah, finding it, 557 00:34:17,836 --> 00:34:18,276 Speaker 3: and then it. 558 00:34:18,396 --> 00:34:20,916 Speaker 2: Was about it was about the fact that we had 559 00:34:21,356 --> 00:34:24,996 Speaker 2: all the right people at the right time, you know, 560 00:34:25,436 --> 00:34:28,876 Speaker 2: like you know, if you take any of those ingredients out, 561 00:34:29,276 --> 00:34:32,996 Speaker 2: it couldn't have been what it was. Al Macay it's 562 00:34:33,116 --> 00:34:38,116 Speaker 2: so much a part of the greatness of what the 563 00:34:38,636 --> 00:34:43,476 Speaker 2: earth Fire became because he was the guy who could 564 00:34:43,556 --> 00:34:50,436 Speaker 2: take whatever idea and make it funky, you know, really 565 00:34:50,556 --> 00:34:54,676 Speaker 2: really put a groove on it, you know, and uh 566 00:34:55,476 --> 00:35:00,436 Speaker 2: you know, and because him and Vertein worked so closely together. 567 00:35:01,396 --> 00:35:04,956 Speaker 2: If you got Verdein and al going in this in 568 00:35:05,316 --> 00:35:09,396 Speaker 2: a certain direction, you got half the band is yeah, 569 00:35:09,556 --> 00:35:10,876 Speaker 2: half the work is done. 570 00:35:12,316 --> 00:35:14,636 Speaker 4: And Sweets would say, it's right here, it's right here, 571 00:35:14,836 --> 00:35:17,116 Speaker 4: don't go nowhere. And he could hold that groove man 572 00:35:17,196 --> 00:35:18,676 Speaker 4: for an hour and a half and it would just 573 00:35:18,756 --> 00:35:22,956 Speaker 4: get better and better and better better. I mean uh 574 00:35:23,596 --> 00:35:26,516 Speaker 4: like like like Philip said, you know, uh, shake up, 575 00:35:29,356 --> 00:35:33,636 Speaker 4: I mean all those things that you can't put on paper. Yeah, 576 00:35:35,516 --> 00:35:37,196 Speaker 4: so you and you would you and him would really 577 00:35:37,676 --> 00:35:40,476 Speaker 4: like that. Yeah, we had like a sixth sense where 578 00:35:40,516 --> 00:35:42,476 Speaker 4: it was gonna go wow. And even if the notes 579 00:35:42,516 --> 00:35:44,396 Speaker 4: are wrong. They sounded good after you played it with him. 580 00:35:46,716 --> 00:35:51,556 Speaker 1: That's amazing. More from Earth Wound and Fire after the break, 581 00:35:55,676 --> 00:35:58,996 Speaker 1: I want to play a little bit of your point 582 00:35:59,036 --> 00:36:01,636 Speaker 1: of like how a mkay could make anything funky when 583 00:36:01,676 --> 00:36:04,996 Speaker 1: you stripped back. And also this Shining Star goes back 584 00:36:05,036 --> 00:36:08,036 Speaker 1: to Colorado also because I didn't know until I saw 585 00:36:08,076 --> 00:36:10,636 Speaker 1: the doc that you guys are out recording at Caribou 586 00:36:10,716 --> 00:36:13,476 Speaker 1: ranching in Colorado and Maurice goes out for a walk 587 00:36:13,556 --> 00:36:16,516 Speaker 1: and sees the stars and comes up that day for 588 00:36:16,556 --> 00:36:19,916 Speaker 1: Shining Star. But for this opening groove, I mean, it's 589 00:36:19,956 --> 00:36:22,996 Speaker 1: such a funky song, such a classic funk song, but 590 00:36:23,076 --> 00:36:29,996 Speaker 1: when you listen to that opening, it really is just 591 00:36:30,076 --> 00:36:36,876 Speaker 1: like a boogie woogie blues, like a like that opening man, 592 00:36:37,076 --> 00:36:45,556 Speaker 1: just I mean, he made it so funky, and you 593 00:36:45,876 --> 00:36:48,076 Speaker 1: right in there with the interplay with them Verdin, But 594 00:36:48,196 --> 00:36:49,796 Speaker 1: it's just a blue. It's really just like a blues. 595 00:36:49,916 --> 00:36:52,516 Speaker 1: It's like a fast waller, kind of like a riff 596 00:36:52,636 --> 00:36:52,996 Speaker 1: or something. 597 00:36:53,156 --> 00:36:56,356 Speaker 4: Also, to Philip had said earlier, there were so many 598 00:36:56,396 --> 00:37:00,276 Speaker 4: people that helped us. Another major component was George Massenberg 599 00:37:01,236 --> 00:37:03,156 Speaker 4: in terms of that sound. To get the sound out 600 00:37:03,156 --> 00:37:08,676 Speaker 4: of those instruments, you know, particularly for Black Group sonically 601 00:37:09,276 --> 00:37:11,716 Speaker 4: that when you heard it you would say, oh my god. 602 00:37:12,476 --> 00:37:13,476 Speaker 4: George was a big, big. 603 00:37:13,396 --> 00:37:16,156 Speaker 2: Part of that. It was inspiring his his what he 604 00:37:16,196 --> 00:37:18,156 Speaker 2: would bring would inspire other stuff. 605 00:37:18,916 --> 00:37:19,196 Speaker 1: Really. 606 00:37:20,276 --> 00:37:22,676 Speaker 3: And he was an electrical engineer. He had a George 607 00:37:22,716 --> 00:37:26,356 Speaker 3: had a room at the complex in the back where 608 00:37:26,356 --> 00:37:28,636 Speaker 3: he would just if he wasn't in the studio working 609 00:37:28,676 --> 00:37:32,476 Speaker 3: on music, he was back there tinkering outsider and iron 610 00:37:32,596 --> 00:37:36,076 Speaker 3: and a transistor here, dialed over here. You know, he 611 00:37:36,236 --> 00:37:37,036 Speaker 3: was always back there. 612 00:37:37,356 --> 00:37:40,036 Speaker 1: And he has a I mean, his name in the 613 00:37:40,276 --> 00:37:45,996 Speaker 1: engineering world is unimpeachable, but he wasn't George Massenberg. When 614 00:37:45,996 --> 00:37:47,236 Speaker 1: you guys were starting with. 615 00:37:48,076 --> 00:37:52,076 Speaker 2: Maurice hunted him down. He found he was I don't 616 00:37:52,596 --> 00:37:57,076 Speaker 2: remember the exact story, but but when he when he 617 00:37:57,356 --> 00:38:00,916 Speaker 2: heard about George, and I think he was living in 618 00:38:01,236 --> 00:38:06,716 Speaker 2: the Washington D C. Area of Baltimore, Baltimore, Maurice actually 619 00:38:07,236 --> 00:38:11,796 Speaker 2: you know, sought him out, you know, and uh brought 620 00:38:11,836 --> 00:38:13,116 Speaker 2: him into into the fold. 621 00:38:13,636 --> 00:38:15,956 Speaker 1: Iways wanted to ask you guys about We talked about 622 00:38:16,956 --> 00:38:19,916 Speaker 1: Charles Stepney when an influence he had, but you know, 623 00:38:20,076 --> 00:38:22,156 Speaker 1: he he died too soon, too young. 624 00:38:22,516 --> 00:38:25,676 Speaker 3: And you in the middle of making Spirit on Spirit. 625 00:38:26,676 --> 00:38:28,196 Speaker 3: As a matter of fact, we were about to cut 626 00:38:28,276 --> 00:38:32,316 Speaker 3: the track Spirit. I was on the drums and Maurice 627 00:38:32,356 --> 00:38:35,676 Speaker 3: got the phone call that Stepney had just passed, and 628 00:38:35,876 --> 00:38:39,316 Speaker 3: we just went on and cut that track. But that's 629 00:38:39,756 --> 00:38:43,796 Speaker 3: right after we got the news. I remember that clearly, Wow, clearly, 630 00:38:44,796 --> 00:38:46,196 Speaker 3: And that and the man that had to be heavy, 631 00:38:47,036 --> 00:38:47,996 Speaker 3: well yeah it was. 632 00:38:48,676 --> 00:38:50,836 Speaker 2: It was very earth shattering. 633 00:38:51,116 --> 00:38:54,116 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, but you know, the thing that amazes 634 00:38:54,196 --> 00:38:57,396 Speaker 1: me is like the next record you guys do after Spirit, 635 00:38:57,476 --> 00:39:00,716 Speaker 1: all in all, he wasn't there to help guide you guys, 636 00:39:01,476 --> 00:39:05,116 Speaker 1: and it is just one of the all time in 637 00:39:05,236 --> 00:39:07,916 Speaker 1: my mind. Like it's hard to pick a favorite Earth 638 00:39:07,956 --> 00:39:10,316 Speaker 1: Wind and Fire album, but all in all, the fact 639 00:39:10,356 --> 00:39:14,116 Speaker 1: that you guys, it's not just you guys, and you're 640 00:39:14,316 --> 00:39:16,996 Speaker 1: kind of mentor or maybe Maurice's mentor is not there, 641 00:39:17,276 --> 00:39:20,156 Speaker 1: and you guys go in and cut, you know, I mean, 642 00:39:21,116 --> 00:39:23,836 Speaker 1: all all in all starts off with serpenting Fire, goes 643 00:39:23,876 --> 00:39:29,956 Speaker 1: into fantasy, Jupiter loves Holiday, Beijo, I'll write a song 644 00:39:30,036 --> 00:39:32,476 Speaker 1: for you, which is a great feature for you. Philip 645 00:39:32,556 --> 00:39:36,556 Speaker 1: and Magic Mind running Brazil doing Wayne Shorter's pont Day area, 646 00:39:36,676 --> 00:39:39,556 Speaker 1: like just put an insane album. So you guys didn't 647 00:39:39,596 --> 00:39:43,156 Speaker 1: miss a beat really, you know musically Yeah, well I'm 648 00:39:43,196 --> 00:39:45,916 Speaker 1: sure you missed him obviously, but musically you guys were 649 00:39:45,996 --> 00:39:47,516 Speaker 1: just you know. 650 00:39:49,236 --> 00:39:55,396 Speaker 2: You can't take anything away from from Maurice's genius. And 651 00:39:56,356 --> 00:39:58,396 Speaker 2: you know when we when we talk about step, it 652 00:39:58,436 --> 00:40:01,996 Speaker 2: doesn't take anything away from from Maurice. It just gives 653 00:40:02,196 --> 00:40:07,316 Speaker 2: Charles what he deserves. You know, it was very important 654 00:40:07,556 --> 00:40:09,476 Speaker 2: that that we that we do that cause he meant 655 00:40:09,556 --> 00:40:10,236 Speaker 2: that much to us. 656 00:40:10,436 --> 00:40:13,396 Speaker 1: Yeah, do you remember the idea of having to make 657 00:40:13,436 --> 00:40:14,596 Speaker 1: a record without him being around? 658 00:40:16,116 --> 00:40:20,596 Speaker 2: Yeah? We were fortunate, like I said, not to be redundant. 659 00:40:20,836 --> 00:40:24,236 Speaker 2: We're fortunate enough that if you work with us, it 660 00:40:24,436 --> 00:40:30,036 Speaker 2: was you were accomplished in your craft. Reese didn't pick 661 00:40:30,916 --> 00:40:35,836 Speaker 2: people to work with that were, you know, not excellent 662 00:40:35,916 --> 00:40:38,756 Speaker 2: and what they and what they did. So all of 663 00:40:38,836 --> 00:40:44,676 Speaker 2: the major people we knew, and you know, he would 664 00:40:45,036 --> 00:40:49,796 Speaker 2: go after whatever he was hearing in his head. He 665 00:40:49,836 --> 00:40:54,076 Speaker 2: would go after the right ingredients to add in there. 666 00:40:54,556 --> 00:40:56,796 Speaker 1: Do you guys have a favorite Earth Wind and Fire album? 667 00:40:57,196 --> 00:41:00,276 Speaker 4: There are kids, man, you know you're not thinking I 668 00:41:00,356 --> 00:41:02,556 Speaker 4: would say this if you asked us, maybe ten twenty 669 00:41:02,636 --> 00:41:05,036 Speaker 4: years ago, we could give you like one, yeah, but 670 00:41:05,196 --> 00:41:06,316 Speaker 4: now the time is past. 671 00:41:06,876 --> 00:41:09,876 Speaker 2: There's just so many of them and you love them 672 00:41:09,956 --> 00:41:12,836 Speaker 2: all for different reasons of what they brought. I was 673 00:41:13,036 --> 00:41:18,756 Speaker 2: heartbroken that Faces was did not do any you know what. 674 00:41:19,156 --> 00:41:23,316 Speaker 3: The underrated because great material. There's a lot of. 675 00:41:23,356 --> 00:41:26,556 Speaker 2: Great material on that on that record. I think some 676 00:41:26,756 --> 00:41:30,716 Speaker 2: of the greatest works that that we did collectively, some 677 00:41:30,916 --> 00:41:32,036 Speaker 2: of it are on Faces. 678 00:41:32,596 --> 00:41:33,716 Speaker 1: That's a really good record. 679 00:41:33,916 --> 00:41:35,156 Speaker 2: It really sail away. 680 00:41:35,596 --> 00:41:35,796 Speaker 1: Yeah. 681 00:41:35,916 --> 00:41:37,636 Speaker 3: Yeah, one of my favorites offa there. 682 00:41:37,996 --> 00:41:39,396 Speaker 1: I always wonderful I had to do with this, one 683 00:41:39,436 --> 00:41:42,716 Speaker 1: of the first records where in a while where it 684 00:41:42,836 --> 00:41:46,236 Speaker 1: wasn't the cover wasn't like psychedelic, It wasn't like the 685 00:41:46,356 --> 00:41:48,156 Speaker 1: cover was it was just face. It was people. It 686 00:41:48,236 --> 00:41:50,396 Speaker 1: was really simple and really it was beautiful in this way, 687 00:41:50,436 --> 00:41:52,316 Speaker 1: but it was really simple, and you guys had these 688 00:41:52,396 --> 00:41:56,516 Speaker 1: really almost like Funkadelic. You guys had really signature album 689 00:41:56,596 --> 00:41:58,276 Speaker 1: covers for for for such a stretch. 690 00:41:58,436 --> 00:42:02,676 Speaker 4: You know, in Faces, there was a young man with 691 00:42:02,796 --> 00:42:08,916 Speaker 4: a boombox that was Chaka Khan's brother. Really yeah, yeah, 692 00:42:09,156 --> 00:42:15,316 Speaker 4: you know, random shots of people and it was Faces. 693 00:42:15,636 --> 00:42:15,836 Speaker 2: Yeah. 694 00:42:17,116 --> 00:42:20,316 Speaker 1: How much were you guys like connected to the other 695 00:42:20,436 --> 00:42:24,156 Speaker 1: artists around like Shaka or even like you know, you 696 00:42:24,236 --> 00:42:26,796 Speaker 1: guys do like a Wayne Shorter song. He's around with 697 00:42:26,916 --> 00:42:29,436 Speaker 1: Herbie Quincy's making stuff like. 698 00:42:29,476 --> 00:42:32,836 Speaker 2: Are you guys? We were managed by the same management 699 00:42:32,916 --> 00:42:39,036 Speaker 2: group as Weather Report, and so we did several stints 700 00:42:39,076 --> 00:42:44,796 Speaker 2: where we'd gig together. Whether that was fantastic just to 701 00:42:44,956 --> 00:42:49,236 Speaker 2: hear you know, jos Avenue and Wayne and then you know, 702 00:42:49,516 --> 00:42:53,596 Speaker 2: like play before us. It was like it was crazy. 703 00:42:53,716 --> 00:42:57,916 Speaker 2: We played some colleges and stuff together, you know, but 704 00:42:59,316 --> 00:43:04,516 Speaker 2: you know, interestingly enough, we were kind of in a bubble, right. 705 00:43:04,876 --> 00:43:09,716 Speaker 2: I didn't really begin to really branch out, know people, 706 00:43:09,836 --> 00:43:12,476 Speaker 2: till we got it. We broke up, you know, for 707 00:43:12,596 --> 00:43:15,956 Speaker 2: those you a couple of years, and because we were 708 00:43:16,116 --> 00:43:21,676 Speaker 2: just we're always working, always planning the work on tour 709 00:43:22,076 --> 00:43:24,196 Speaker 2: and on tour. And you gotta have to understand that 710 00:43:24,516 --> 00:43:28,916 Speaker 2: we went from mama's house to Earth went Fire, that's right, 711 00:43:29,996 --> 00:43:30,356 Speaker 2: that's right. 712 00:43:30,436 --> 00:43:31,996 Speaker 4: Yeah, you guys got plucked right out of home, right 713 00:43:32,276 --> 00:43:36,636 Speaker 4: and then coming from my house, h I met a 714 00:43:36,716 --> 00:43:41,476 Speaker 4: new brother, Philip and another brother, Ralph, so it's like 715 00:43:42,076 --> 00:43:44,356 Speaker 4: it was just like an extension, so we didn't know 716 00:43:44,396 --> 00:43:45,796 Speaker 4: anybody but us. 717 00:43:46,156 --> 00:43:49,396 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's amazing. I was reading through your book a 718 00:43:49,436 --> 00:43:51,716 Speaker 1: bit last night and reading in a little bit about 719 00:43:51,716 --> 00:43:54,716 Speaker 1: that that period where you guys you know, went separate, 720 00:43:54,796 --> 00:43:57,476 Speaker 1: raised as a group for a while, and in it 721 00:43:57,596 --> 00:44:00,116 Speaker 1: you really talk about wrestling with is this a break? 722 00:44:00,236 --> 00:44:02,116 Speaker 1: Is this the rest of my life? And my am 723 00:44:02,156 --> 00:44:02,956 Speaker 1: I doing music and. 724 00:44:02,996 --> 00:44:03,796 Speaker 2: All that kind of break. 725 00:44:03,836 --> 00:44:07,596 Speaker 3: The way it was done would cause you to think that, yeah, yeah, 726 00:44:08,076 --> 00:44:11,956 Speaker 3: you know, yeah, it was just like a meeting and 727 00:44:12,036 --> 00:44:16,116 Speaker 3: then okay, run a break. That's how quickly it happened, 728 00:44:16,156 --> 00:44:18,276 Speaker 3: and that's the way it happened, you know, So it 729 00:44:18,316 --> 00:44:20,996 Speaker 3: would caused you to, you know, pause about your future. 730 00:44:21,316 --> 00:44:24,116 Speaker 1: And you have success producing with Al McKay the Tempts, 731 00:44:24,596 --> 00:44:27,316 Speaker 1: but then you also start doing construction and you're working 732 00:44:27,356 --> 00:44:28,436 Speaker 1: at a stereo. 733 00:44:28,196 --> 00:44:30,476 Speaker 3: Store federated Stereos Lebria. 734 00:44:30,716 --> 00:44:32,796 Speaker 1: When I was reading through that, what struck me was 735 00:44:33,436 --> 00:44:36,836 Speaker 1: now forty years later, you guys are it's like you 736 00:44:36,916 --> 00:44:40,436 Speaker 1: guys never It's like that window, as probably emotionally fraud 737 00:44:40,436 --> 00:44:42,116 Speaker 1: as it was at the at that point, was such 738 00:44:42,116 --> 00:44:43,196 Speaker 1: a small window in the. 739 00:44:43,236 --> 00:44:46,356 Speaker 3: Overall, the overall picture, the overall picture of the group, 740 00:44:46,716 --> 00:44:47,236 Speaker 3: just the moment. 741 00:44:47,316 --> 00:44:49,276 Speaker 1: You would never know that that moment happened, and the 742 00:44:49,356 --> 00:44:53,396 Speaker 1: fact that the three of you without Maurice now sadly 743 00:44:53,516 --> 00:44:56,076 Speaker 1: without so many people that we've lost, that you guys 744 00:44:56,116 --> 00:45:00,316 Speaker 1: are able to continue to give the gift of earth 745 00:45:00,316 --> 00:45:03,716 Speaker 1: when and fire to the world forty years after you 746 00:45:03,796 --> 00:45:06,396 Speaker 1: guys coming back together in around nineteen eighty six, nineteen 747 00:45:06,396 --> 00:45:08,996 Speaker 1: eighty seven. That it's just it's it's mind. 748 00:45:09,716 --> 00:45:12,076 Speaker 3: Well, one of the things that the book talks about 749 00:45:12,196 --> 00:45:16,556 Speaker 3: is resilience and to bounce back. Yeah, you got. 750 00:45:17,556 --> 00:45:20,596 Speaker 4: But in those forty years and those little glitches, you know, 751 00:45:21,676 --> 00:45:24,836 Speaker 4: you know, it all wasn't roses. You know, we were growing, 752 00:45:24,956 --> 00:45:29,116 Speaker 4: we were we were discovering ourselves, you know, and then, 753 00:45:29,116 --> 00:45:31,516 Speaker 4: as I mentioned in the doc a lot of the 754 00:45:32,076 --> 00:45:36,156 Speaker 4: bigger things that happened for us happened later. 755 00:45:36,956 --> 00:45:37,116 Speaker 1: You know. 756 00:45:37,236 --> 00:45:39,876 Speaker 4: Normally a lot of people would get accolades up at 757 00:45:39,916 --> 00:45:42,916 Speaker 4: the top. We got a lot of ours on the 758 00:45:43,036 --> 00:45:45,676 Speaker 4: back end, you know, as we call it, the back nine, 759 00:45:46,356 --> 00:45:48,396 Speaker 4: you know. And part of that had a lot to 760 00:45:48,476 --> 00:45:52,236 Speaker 4: do with, I think, with the technology of sampling of 761 00:45:52,316 --> 00:45:56,836 Speaker 4: the artists coming along discovering us and and sampling our 762 00:45:56,916 --> 00:46:00,156 Speaker 4: music in their music. H and so and the parents, 763 00:46:00,396 --> 00:46:02,716 Speaker 4: you know, like your parents was telling you about us, 764 00:46:03,356 --> 00:46:06,836 Speaker 4: and it started working that way, you know, like when 765 00:46:06,876 --> 00:46:09,316 Speaker 4: we first started, you know how people say I love 766 00:46:09,356 --> 00:46:12,436 Speaker 4: your music, we think your music's great. Now they come 767 00:46:12,516 --> 00:46:15,316 Speaker 4: up to us and they thank us for making the music. Yeah, 768 00:46:15,396 --> 00:46:18,796 Speaker 4: it's like a big thank you. Yeah, you know, well 769 00:46:18,836 --> 00:46:20,756 Speaker 4: because it really is. And I'm embarrassed to say too. 770 00:46:20,956 --> 00:46:22,516 Speaker 1: My first the first time I figured out who you 771 00:46:22,556 --> 00:46:24,796 Speaker 1: guys were was from watching Fresh Prince of bel Air 772 00:46:24,956 --> 00:46:27,396 Speaker 1: when I was a young kid, and they had a 773 00:46:27,556 --> 00:46:29,596 Speaker 1: joke with the law firm that the dad worked for 774 00:46:29,796 --> 00:46:32,436 Speaker 1: was first Win Admire, and I was like, that's so 775 00:46:32,636 --> 00:46:35,036 Speaker 1: like first Win Amire. And then as you grow and 776 00:46:35,116 --> 00:46:37,316 Speaker 1: you grow older and you just you absorb your music 777 00:46:37,356 --> 00:46:40,276 Speaker 1: through the radio, through buying the records, through streaming, through 778 00:46:40,676 --> 00:46:43,316 Speaker 1: hearing them in films or commercials or whatever, you just 779 00:46:43,436 --> 00:46:45,996 Speaker 1: realize it's almost as if all that stuff that we 780 00:46:46,076 --> 00:46:49,076 Speaker 1: were a top. We were kind of joking about about Maurice, 781 00:46:49,116 --> 00:46:51,796 Speaker 1: where he was living healthy and drinking smoothies and proaching 782 00:46:51,796 --> 00:46:54,076 Speaker 1: the shakes and eating healthy. And there's a great story 783 00:46:54,116 --> 00:46:58,796 Speaker 1: in the dock about you guys meditating before the show. Yeah, 784 00:46:59,236 --> 00:47:02,036 Speaker 1: like just insane, and the audience is losing their minds 785 00:47:02,036 --> 00:47:04,516 Speaker 1: and you guys are just sitting there meditating for five, six, seven, 786 00:47:04,516 --> 00:47:08,236 Speaker 1: eight minutes. But it's almost like all of that went 787 00:47:08,356 --> 00:47:10,956 Speaker 1: into the music. And for those of us who weren't 788 00:47:10,956 --> 00:47:12,956 Speaker 1: there while it was being made, while was being released, 789 00:47:13,516 --> 00:47:16,996 Speaker 1: hearing it after the fact, it really does transmit, you 790 00:47:17,076 --> 00:47:19,476 Speaker 1: know all it feels like all that spiritual work, it 791 00:47:19,596 --> 00:47:22,396 Speaker 1: really does transmit. I think that's people relate to start. 792 00:47:22,596 --> 00:47:25,316 Speaker 1: But then, but when Maurice passed, you know, we're gone 793 00:47:25,356 --> 00:47:27,196 Speaker 1: a lot. You know, we travel a lot, so we're 794 00:47:27,236 --> 00:47:31,676 Speaker 1: not home as as as much, you know, as a 795 00:47:31,716 --> 00:47:32,236 Speaker 1: lot of people. 796 00:47:32,596 --> 00:47:36,436 Speaker 4: When Maurice passed. When I got back, I had the 797 00:47:36,556 --> 00:47:41,756 Speaker 4: biggest card, like from here to here from your neighbors. 798 00:47:43,276 --> 00:47:47,716 Speaker 4: The neighbors had all signed a card because when you know, 799 00:47:47,796 --> 00:47:49,596 Speaker 4: when the news hit, it was all over the world, 800 00:47:49,636 --> 00:47:52,436 Speaker 4: of course. Yeah, and but my neighbors had signed this 801 00:47:52,636 --> 00:47:53,276 Speaker 4: big card. 802 00:47:53,916 --> 00:47:56,476 Speaker 1: That must have been a lot. Yeah, that must have 803 00:47:56,516 --> 00:47:58,996 Speaker 1: been a lot. I mean, Maurice been a lot, and 804 00:47:59,036 --> 00:48:03,516 Speaker 1: you guys all do man, you know absolutely, I was fortunately. 805 00:48:03,516 --> 00:48:05,116 Speaker 1: I think the first Earth Wind and Fire show I 806 00:48:05,156 --> 00:48:08,236 Speaker 1: saw was around two thousand and nine at the Hollywood Bowl. 807 00:48:08,876 --> 00:48:11,356 Speaker 1: Marie just came out on stage for a seconds, right right. 808 00:48:11,556 --> 00:48:12,676 Speaker 1: I was like Wow, it's amazing. 809 00:48:12,796 --> 00:48:15,516 Speaker 4: You know, that's when he decided to write his book. 810 00:48:15,996 --> 00:48:21,156 Speaker 1: I think was it before we wrap Philip, I'm gonna ask, 811 00:48:21,956 --> 00:48:23,836 Speaker 1: would you mind telling the story of reasons? 812 00:48:25,516 --> 00:48:25,676 Speaker 5: Oh? 813 00:48:26,356 --> 00:48:27,956 Speaker 1: Well, here we go, here we go. 814 00:48:29,996 --> 00:48:32,876 Speaker 2: You know, we were on the road and we were 815 00:48:33,076 --> 00:48:35,756 Speaker 2: in we had just landed and I think it was 816 00:48:35,836 --> 00:48:38,756 Speaker 2: at Philly or Atlanta. It's one of them. How much 817 00:48:38,796 --> 00:48:39,716 Speaker 2: of issue you want to know? 818 00:48:39,916 --> 00:48:43,796 Speaker 1: This is good for you, it's with the world. 819 00:48:43,916 --> 00:48:45,076 Speaker 3: So are we recording this? 820 00:48:45,236 --> 00:48:49,036 Speaker 2: Wait a minute, it's in the dock. It's in the docks. 821 00:48:49,116 --> 00:48:50,836 Speaker 3: In the dock, I said, okay, if you've already put 822 00:48:50,836 --> 00:48:51,636 Speaker 3: it in the doc failure. 823 00:48:52,156 --> 00:48:55,076 Speaker 2: Well, we all, you know, like bands have groupies, you know, 824 00:48:55,436 --> 00:48:58,156 Speaker 2: And so we were on a plane and uh there 825 00:48:58,236 --> 00:49:01,076 Speaker 2: was this fine lady that was on the plane, and 826 00:49:01,196 --> 00:49:04,996 Speaker 2: so like you know, like everybody like all the all 827 00:49:05,076 --> 00:49:11,276 Speaker 2: the the the women chasing members who have their eyes 828 00:49:11,436 --> 00:49:12,796 Speaker 2: on this particular lady. 829 00:49:13,316 --> 00:49:13,476 Speaker 3: Right. 830 00:49:14,236 --> 00:49:18,556 Speaker 2: So it just so happened that when we got off 831 00:49:18,636 --> 00:49:23,836 Speaker 2: the plane, you know, our road manager, Leonard, you know, 832 00:49:23,956 --> 00:49:27,076 Speaker 2: we had you know, eye signals. We know, we had 833 00:49:27,156 --> 00:49:31,716 Speaker 2: our signals where we go, dude, So I gave him 834 00:49:31,756 --> 00:49:36,436 Speaker 2: the signal we get to the hotel. She's in the 835 00:49:36,836 --> 00:49:39,756 Speaker 2: in the in the lobby. I go to the room, 836 00:49:40,556 --> 00:49:44,756 Speaker 2: Leonard hooks up. She's in the room, okay, And so 837 00:49:45,796 --> 00:49:49,876 Speaker 2: you know, we have an evening together and the whole thing. 838 00:49:50,516 --> 00:49:55,236 Speaker 2: And the next morning, you know how guys think that 839 00:49:56,676 --> 00:50:02,916 Speaker 2: I conquered. The next morning, you know, I got up 840 00:50:02,956 --> 00:50:04,476 Speaker 2: to go to the bathroom or something, but I hear 841 00:50:04,876 --> 00:50:08,196 Speaker 2: her on the phone. She's talking to her baby, talking 842 00:50:08,316 --> 00:50:11,876 Speaker 2: to her boo. You know, Oh yeah, I got, you know, 843 00:50:12,316 --> 00:50:16,596 Speaker 2: giving him this story of what happened, you know, why 844 00:50:16,796 --> 00:50:21,596 Speaker 2: she ain't home and stuff, you know. And so I 845 00:50:21,716 --> 00:50:24,436 Speaker 2: get out the bathroom and she says to me, you know, 846 00:50:24,596 --> 00:50:26,996 Speaker 2: something to the fact like, yeah, when I saw you, 847 00:50:27,316 --> 00:50:31,956 Speaker 2: I just said this had to go down. So, you know, 848 00:50:32,196 --> 00:50:43,756 Speaker 2: like my ego was like, okay, so that happened. So 849 00:50:43,836 --> 00:50:47,916 Speaker 2: I'm having this conversation with Maurice, you know, on the 850 00:50:47,996 --> 00:50:51,716 Speaker 2: plane and stuff. We're talking about this situation and stuff. 851 00:50:52,156 --> 00:50:59,796 Speaker 2: And that's how the whole Reasons thing came about. That's 852 00:50:59,876 --> 00:51:04,076 Speaker 2: how the whole the lyrics for Reasons and that whole concept. 853 00:51:06,516 --> 00:51:08,996 Speaker 1: I mean for that to be one of the most 854 00:51:09,796 --> 00:51:18,476 Speaker 1: romantic songs of all time. People playing their wettings anniversary. 855 00:51:18,076 --> 00:51:22,396 Speaker 2: In the morning when I rise, you know, no longer 856 00:51:22,476 --> 00:51:26,516 Speaker 2: feeling no, yeah, no longer feeling hypnotized. I find our 857 00:51:26,596 --> 00:51:30,956 Speaker 2: reason had no pride, you know, and they were a lie. 858 00:51:31,876 --> 00:51:32,036 Speaker 4: You know. 859 00:51:32,156 --> 00:51:34,356 Speaker 2: It's like, dude, that kind of says it all right, 860 00:51:34,596 --> 00:51:38,156 Speaker 2: kind of says it all right. But people were talking 861 00:51:38,156 --> 00:51:41,756 Speaker 2: about I used that on our wedding. I said, huh, 862 00:51:43,836 --> 00:51:45,396 Speaker 2: do you remember the first time you heard that? That's 863 00:51:45,436 --> 00:51:48,716 Speaker 2: I'm like, man, I've heard that so many times up 864 00:51:48,756 --> 00:51:51,556 Speaker 2: that I was going, But did you listen to the lyrics, 865 00:51:52,556 --> 00:51:53,716 Speaker 2: take a moment and read them. 866 00:51:55,676 --> 00:51:56,916 Speaker 1: People hear what they want to hear. 867 00:51:57,236 --> 00:51:57,916 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what. 868 00:51:57,956 --> 00:51:59,596 Speaker 1: I was shocked actually in hindsight to find out that 869 00:51:59,676 --> 00:52:03,356 Speaker 1: wasn't even a single, right, No, it never was. Do 870 00:52:03,396 --> 00:52:04,836 Speaker 1: you remember when did that start getting. 871 00:52:04,876 --> 00:52:07,236 Speaker 4: Like so it just I guess album cuts in the 872 00:52:07,276 --> 00:52:10,796 Speaker 4: seventh it was jumped that it was the live record. 873 00:52:10,916 --> 00:52:14,076 Speaker 4: If you're listening to that, that that the record they 874 00:52:14,236 --> 00:52:16,076 Speaker 4: roar when it first comes on. But that came home 875 00:52:16,156 --> 00:52:17,156 Speaker 4: on the Gratitude Reil on. 876 00:52:17,156 --> 00:52:19,516 Speaker 1: The Gratitude Gratitude, and it's the live version you always 877 00:52:19,556 --> 00:52:23,276 Speaker 1: would hear on the radio a lot with yeah, yeah, yeah, 878 00:52:23,876 --> 00:52:25,836 Speaker 1: But but that was a big song already even before 879 00:52:25,836 --> 00:52:27,916 Speaker 1: the live one came out, because, like you say, when 880 00:52:27,956 --> 00:52:28,796 Speaker 1: the audience. 881 00:52:30,396 --> 00:52:31,836 Speaker 4: It's pandemonium, they were crazy. 882 00:52:31,876 --> 00:52:34,116 Speaker 1: I'm shocked it was never a single off of the 883 00:52:34,196 --> 00:52:36,756 Speaker 1: previous album. Uh, that's the way of the world. 884 00:52:36,996 --> 00:52:37,236 Speaker 3: Shot. 885 00:52:37,676 --> 00:52:41,116 Speaker 1: Thanks for telling the truth all these years later. There 886 00:52:41,196 --> 00:52:44,876 Speaker 1: it is, oh Man, appreciate you guys, Thank you, Thank you. 887 00:52:45,196 --> 00:52:48,116 Speaker 1: Congratulations on the documentary. That's going to be exciting to 888 00:52:48,516 --> 00:52:50,876 Speaker 1: be out in the world and we're excited HBO and 889 00:52:50,956 --> 00:52:53,116 Speaker 1: quest love and thanks for all the years of music. 890 00:52:53,236 --> 00:52:56,396 Speaker 2: Man, Thank you, thank you, Thanks for having us great interview. 891 00:52:56,516 --> 00:52:56,716 Speaker 2: Thank you. 892 00:53:00,116 --> 00:53:02,636 Speaker 1: Thanks so much to Philip Bailey, Verdin White, and Ralph 893 00:53:02,676 --> 00:53:05,076 Speaker 1: Johnson earth Wing and Fire for joining us on the podcast. 894 00:53:05,276 --> 00:53:07,196 Speaker 1: Be sure to check out their great new documentary on 895 00:53:07,436 --> 00:53:10,076 Speaker 1: HBO now, and be sure to check us out at 896 00:53:10,116 --> 00:53:12,596 Speaker 1: YouTube dot com slash Broken Record Podcast to see our 897 00:53:12,676 --> 00:53:15,556 Speaker 1: video interviews and check the link in the description for 898 00:53:15,596 --> 00:53:18,236 Speaker 1: a playlist of some of our favorite Earthwind and Fire songs, 899 00:53:18,676 --> 00:53:20,676 Speaker 1: and be sure to follow us on Instagram at the 900 00:53:20,716 --> 00:53:23,276 Speaker 1: Broken Record Pod. You can follow us on Twitter at 901 00:53:23,356 --> 00:53:26,436 Speaker 1: Broken Record. Broken Record is produced and edited by Leah 902 00:53:26,516 --> 00:53:29,356 Speaker 1: Rose with marketing help from Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan. 903 00:53:29,516 --> 00:53:32,956 Speaker 1: Our engineer is Ben Tolladay. Broken Record is a production 904 00:53:33,036 --> 00:53:35,716 Speaker 1: of Pushkin Industries. If you love this show and others 905 00:53:35,756 --> 00:53:39,396 Speaker 1: from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is 906 00:53:39,396 --> 00:53:42,316 Speaker 1: a podcast subscription that offers bonus content and ad free 907 00:53:42,356 --> 00:53:44,956 Speaker 1: listening for four ninety nine a month. Look for Pushkin 908 00:53:44,956 --> 00:53:48,316 Speaker 1: Plus on Apple podcast subscriptions. And if you like this show, 909 00:53:48,476 --> 00:53:50,396 Speaker 1: please remember to share, rate, and review us on your 910 00:53:50,436 --> 00:53:53,996 Speaker 1: podcast app Our theme musics by Kenny Beats. I'm justin Richmond.