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Speaker 1: Hello and welcome.

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Speaker 2: It's my favorite murder. That's Georgia Hartstar, that's Karen Kilgara, and.

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Speaker 3: We're here podcasting for you with full hearts and can't

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Speaker 3: lose and golden and living our lives like it's golden

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Speaker 3: and we're.

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Speaker 1: Golden and we are doing it. Okay, we have to

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Speaker 1: talk about this. Are you sick?

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Speaker 2: Because oh oh, we have to talk about We went

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Speaker 2: to Austin over the weekend for south By Southwest for

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Speaker 2: the iHeart Podcast Awards.

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Speaker 1: So much fun every year.

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Speaker 2: I get on the plane, I'm sitting right behind, directly

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Speaker 2: behind Karen and directly next to Karen, so I can

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Speaker 2: see this person through the arm chair rest thing this

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Speaker 2: fucking to tell them about him.

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Speaker 3: Well, this dude was very proud because he had a

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Speaker 3: kerchief that he liked to blow his nose in, and

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Speaker 3: he started about three minutes before the plane took off.

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Speaker 3: I felt like I was interpreting maybe some nervousness about

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Speaker 3: the flight, maybe some tension.

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Speaker 1: Maybe some fucking like bubonic plague.

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Speaker 4: Well, so he pulls this kerchief out of his pocket.

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Speaker 1: Green handkerchief, I'll never forget.

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Speaker 3: It, gigantic, and he blows his nose like he's doing

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Speaker 3: a bit like it's like a I'm an elephant trumpeting thing,

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Speaker 3: would you know?

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Speaker 2: Like I blow my nose constantly, So I'm not going

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Speaker 2: to be like a shame person. I don't.

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Speaker 1: I try not to do that in public public.

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Speaker 4: No, and especially like this idea of like, well, someone.

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Speaker 3: Has their own I keep saying, kerchief, what's the right handkerchief?

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Speaker 3: Handkerchief except for that this man. Then after he blew.

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Speaker 2: It uh into this who already wat gigantic, damp, gigantic

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Speaker 2: green hand handkerchief, But then.

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Speaker 3: He snaps it out like a goddamn picnic blanket. I

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Speaker 3: am not exaggerating when I tell you he blows his

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Speaker 3: nose in it and then snaps it out like three times.

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Speaker 1: Every sixty seconds.

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Speaker 3: It started weird. I almost said something like on the

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Speaker 3: fourth time. By the fifteenth time, I was literally like

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Speaker 3: screaming and putting my sweater over my mouth every time

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Speaker 3: he did it.

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Speaker 2: Here's the biggest problem. Don't be sick on a plane,

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Speaker 2: and if you if you are, at least try to

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Speaker 2: pretend you're not. Like, don't get on a plane if

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Speaker 2: you have to blow your nose because you're so sick every.

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Speaker 3: Minute, If I may I'm going to argue with that.

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Speaker 3: I don't think that's what it was. I think he

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Speaker 3: had a truly sick perversion to like getting snot on people.

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Speaker 4: Or something, because it was so nonsensically.

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Speaker 3: When have you ever seen someone blow their nose and

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Speaker 3: then snap out the handkerchief snap it out?

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Speaker 2: That reminds me of like there was a time where

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Speaker 2: I kept walking at nice restaurants, kept walking into a

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Speaker 2: man who forgot to lock the door. Standing at the ear,

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Speaker 2: I was like, why didn't I keep happening to me?

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Speaker 2: And someone was like, that's a fetish. He just having

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Speaker 2: someone walking on you peeing, And he was like, okay, it's.

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Speaker 1: Not just this weird, right, you know.

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Speaker 2: And it was always like not that nice restaurants matter,

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Speaker 2: but it was a places where like it wasn't a

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Speaker 2: gas station where you're like, you've been driving for six hours?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 3: Well, and also in this situation, it's very easy jokey

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Speaker 3: to be like it's a fetish, but nothing else explains

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Speaker 3: the amount of times he did it, the drama with

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Speaker 3: which he snapped it out, where it was just like

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Speaker 3: I can't believe the people across the Aisle Irom piss.

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Speaker 2: It was so bad that I made I did something

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Speaker 2: I never do on flights. I made friends with a

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Speaker 2: person sitting next to me. I had to turn and

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Speaker 2: start talking to her or I was going to fucking scream. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and she ended up being this lovely woman withsath Asia

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Speaker 2: who lives in my fucking neighborhood. So funny, and we

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Speaker 2: chatted the whole time. I'm sure that was super annoying too,

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Speaker 2: because I had no.

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Speaker 3: I didn't hear you. I didn't hear you making a friend.

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Speaker 3: I was up in the front getting stuff on my

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Speaker 3: shoulder from the man. I can't believe you're not sick,

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Speaker 3: and I don't think I am, although I'm today in

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Speaker 3: Los Angeles fun weather talk.

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Speaker 4: It's so hot.

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Speaker 3: It's hot, but I kind of feel sick from how

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Speaker 3: is it this hot?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: And I wore a really kind of I didn't think

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Speaker 3: it through summer shirt on, and then when I got

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Speaker 3: to work, I was like, I don't want to wear

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Speaker 3: this on camera.

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Speaker 4: On Cameron Vidde Vide on Netflix.

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Speaker 3: Big concern these days listeners with a whole other thing

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Speaker 3: that's happening while you listen. We've got all these other

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Speaker 3: things to worry about.

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Speaker 2: It's just like life keeps happening even though it's happening.

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Speaker 3: Even though me and my fifty five year old face

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Speaker 3: aren't that into it.

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Speaker 1: Also, what is wrong with my hair? What are you

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Speaker 1: talking about?

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Speaker 3: Always it's always a weird triangle. Well, anyway, thanks for

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Speaker 3: to iHeart. We really love being partners with iHeart as

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Speaker 3: a company. The people that work there are so cool.

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Speaker 3: We were so excited to be at that awards show.

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Speaker 3: I texted Nora, I was like, hey, your favorite podcast

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Speaker 3: one podcast of the year because she loves Giggly Squad.

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Speaker 2: My god, they were the fucking most hilarious women I've

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Speaker 2: ever They were good, so charming and lovely.

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Speaker 3: We don't have to worry about the future. They're going

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Speaker 3: to kill it in every direction.

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Speaker 4: They were so hilarious.

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Speaker 1: We can retire.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, we got to see lots of people that

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Speaker 3: we like there and hang out.

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Speaker 2: Watch what crappens. Always a pleasure. So it was super fun.

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Speaker 4: Fun all around.

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Speaker 1: We lost, but we're really we were just happy to

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Speaker 1: be there.

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Speaker 3: We're used to losing. That's where that's our comfort zone.

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Speaker 3: I think I really get uncomfortable when the winning starts.

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Speaker 1: So I mean we already won life, so we.

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Speaker 4: Won like posted up on a couch at these.

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Speaker 2: Awards hanging out saying hi, like with Jake from Disgraceland

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Speaker 2: on one side, Craig Parlet on the other the other.

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Speaker 1: What more does anyone want? What more?

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Speaker 4: In this life?

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Speaker 1: Oh?

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Speaker 3: We got to see the head in the Heart play

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Speaker 3: live like with in front of fifty people or something

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Speaker 3: is great, Thank you, thank you all.

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Speaker 1: No chicken ship bingo this year, but no, you can't

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Speaker 1: win it at all.

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Speaker 3: But a lot because again to talk about the weather.

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Speaker 3: The weather was so wildly up and down there that

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Speaker 3: I did a lot of shopping and I just want

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Speaker 3: to shout out Feathers, the vintage store in Austin, because

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Speaker 3: I bought jewelry there. I bought a coat there, I

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Speaker 3: bought a short sleeved shirt there. I did it every season.

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Speaker 2: I haven't unpacked yet, so I forgot that I bought

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Speaker 2: a shirt out of vintch Saw.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I gross, and I haven't unpacked. Well, no, it's

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Speaker 1: such a pain.

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Speaker 3: It's like you just come back and get right back

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Speaker 3: into everything.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I think the woman at Feathers actually because she gave

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Speaker 3: me too like tote bags with their logo one.

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Speaker 1: I think once for you love a tote bag.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we should count tote bags one day as like

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Speaker 2: a fan call video.

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Speaker 4: I've got them to count for sure.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I got a whole drawerful.

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Speaker 2: Funny, ironic sayings on them cities we visited our own merch.

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Speaker 1: I just got a Gelson's tote.

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Speaker 3: Oh, because you know how everybody's into those Trader Joe's

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Speaker 3: totes around the world. Well, Gelson's in the game. Now

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Speaker 3: get in there, Gilsons. Gielson's our local rich people's grocery store.

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Speaker 4: They're like, we can do.

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Speaker 1: This speaking and we can do this.

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Speaker 2: We have a podcast network, that's right, it's called exactly

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Speaker 2: Right Media. Here's some quick highlights.

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Speaker 4: Okay, this is very exciting.

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Speaker 3: Our newest limited series, Two Faced John of God, is

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Speaker 3: currently featured on Apple Podcasts right this second. The full

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Speaker 3: series is available to Binge in both English and Spanish.

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Speaker 3: So if you haven't listened to this podcast yet, now's

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Speaker 3: the time.

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Speaker 1: It's so good.

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Speaker 2: Speaking of incredibly exciting. Over on That's messed Up, Kara

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Speaker 2: and Lisa recap the SVU episode Reasonable Doubt about No Doubt,

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Speaker 2: and they sit down with the no that's not true

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Speaker 2: and they sit down with get ready for this because

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Speaker 2: my jaw dropped when I heard about this. Their guess

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Speaker 2: is the great Bradley Whitford.

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Speaker 1: I mean, what a booking. Wow. Hello, Wow, Kara and

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Speaker 1: Lisa killing it so great?

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Speaker 3: Did you see the Death by Lightning, the new Netflix

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Speaker 3: series about the presidential assassination?

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Speaker 4: He's in it and he's so good.

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Speaker 1: Okay, he's so good.

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Speaker 3: And this week on Buried Bones, Kate and Paul head

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Speaker 3: to Boston in eighteen eighty six, where the owner of

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Speaker 3: a laundry mat is found murdered in his shop, Laundry

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Speaker 3: Maut in eighteen ninety.

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Speaker 2: No, I was just thinking about that.

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Speaker 3: A laundry vat. As investigators learn more about the victim's ambitions,

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Speaker 3: a clearer picture of the case begins to emerge.

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Speaker 1: Dune done.

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Speaker 2: It should be at the end of every one of

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Speaker 2: their paragraphs. Yeah sure, and Aunt, do you need a ride?

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Speaker 2: Chris and Karen welcome Francesca Fiorentini and they talk about

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Speaker 2: Olympic tears, serious skincare and more.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that was a fun episode and by the bye

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Speaker 3: over in our merch corner. The Spring Cleaning Sale runs

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Speaker 1: They always do in life.

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Speaker 3: I mean, you think you just have carte blanche to

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Speaker 3: get twenty percent off anything in life?

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Speaker 2: Have you learned nothing? Well?

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Speaker 3: Are you new? Come on, all right, Okay, I'm gonna

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Speaker 3: kick us off today. I'd never heard of this story before.

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Speaker 3: It's it's a kind of crazy and kind of relevant.

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Speaker 3: I actually just saw a trailer. Zach alifhan Akis has

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Speaker 3: a new show out. Have you seen the trailer for it?

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Speaker 3: It's him and the whole thing's about gardening and growing

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Speaker 3: food and basically how we need to learn how to

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Speaker 3: grow our own food again. Can he stop being the

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Speaker 3: greatest hippie in the world? Love this man, But it's

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Speaker 3: like truly something that he's very passionate about, and like

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Speaker 3: he's basically teaching people how to do that said, I

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Speaker 3: love that. That's kind of a perfect little plug, a

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Speaker 3: side plug. Yeah, Zach is my friend and I adore

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Speaker 3: him and his work. But something to think about is

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Speaker 3: I tell you this story that begins in nineteen forties

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Speaker 3: Oregon at the Oregon State Hospital in the capital city

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Speaker 3: of Salem. This is the state's oldest running psyche zatric institution.

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Speaker 4: It was first.

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Speaker 3: Opened in the eighteen eighties and it's still operating today.

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Speaker 3: The original building has been I put remodeled, but it's

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Speaker 3: like completely redone. But the original campus is where they

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Speaker 3: filmed one Flow over.

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Speaker 1: The Cucasarts right in the seventies. I hear you so.

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Speaker 3: Author Diane Garis Gardner wrote a book about the hospital,

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Speaker 3: and she's quoted as saying, quote, the history of the

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Speaker 3: Oregon State Hospital is inevitably the history of the mental

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Speaker 3: health system itself end quote, And like psychiatric institutions across America,

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Speaker 3: that history includes decades of harmful practices based on outdated thinking,

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Speaker 3: like forced sterilizations and of course lobotomies. Horrifying thing that

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Speaker 3: happened and that everyone still has to deal with, alongside

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Speaker 3: the systemic harm caused by chronic underfunding and overcrowding of

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Speaker 3: mental health facilities. So our story begins here on the

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Speaker 3: afternoon of November eighteenth, nineteen forty two. It's just after

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Speaker 3: five o'clock. Hundreds of patients staff are eating or have

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Speaker 3: just eaten their hospital issued dinner, when slowly, one by one,

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Speaker 3: they begin to display classic signs of poisoning. Some collapse,

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Speaker 3: others vomit, many struggle to breathe. Within hours, dozens of

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Speaker 3: people are dead and officials have no idea who or

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Speaker 3: what is to blame. This is the story of the

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Speaker 3: nineteen forty two Oregon State Hospital poisoning tragedy.

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Speaker 1: Fuck, I've never heard of this, right.

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Speaker 3: Me either, Tessa our ap is the one who suggested it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So the main sources used today are the book Inside

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Speaker 3: Oregon State Hospital, A History of Triumph and Tragedy by

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Speaker 3: Diane Garris Gardner and reporting by Kapy Lynn for The

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Speaker 3: Statesman Journal.

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Speaker 1: Cappy, Capy's cute. That's a great name for the k Kappy.

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Speaker 3: It's actually CAPI oh, that's cute, but Cappy is also

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Speaker 3: Cappy and the.

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Speaker 4: Rest of the sources in our show notes.

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Speaker 3: So, a mass poisoning has been carried out and investigators

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Speaker 3: need to know why. At the time, tensions in the

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Speaker 3: United States could not be higher. Pearl Harbor was the

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Speaker 3: year before December nineteen forty one, and that actually ended

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Speaker 3: up pulling US into World War two. Wartime austerity measures

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Speaker 3: now touch every aspect of American life. As the country

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Speaker 3: funnels its resources overseas and trade routes are disrupted, Americans

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Speaker 3: are forced to cut back on everything in their lives.

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Speaker 1: From shoes to paper to tires.

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Speaker 3: Smiling right, hershey bars, That's the one that always gets

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Speaker 3: me in World War two movies when they're like, look.

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Speaker 2: Hershey bar, Yeah, chocolate. That reminds me of a townment

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Speaker 2: and that makes me sad.

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Speaker 3: Oh I just rewatched that soa even but that part

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Speaker 3: where they're on the beach and just waiting to get

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Speaker 3: rescued and saying okay, okay, So over here while that's

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Speaker 3: going on, our boys are sacrificing their lives at home.

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Speaker 3: Americans feel all this austerity the most at the grocery store,

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Speaker 3: because food rationing means that every household has to be

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Speaker 3: very careful when it comes to grocery shopping. And since

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Speaker 3: Pearl Harbor, there's increased anxiety that there will be further

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Speaker 3: attacks on US soil, especially in the coastal states because

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Speaker 3: Japanese subs are being seen in the Pacific, German U

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Speaker 3: boats are being seen in the Atlantic.

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Speaker 1: I just not fucking terrifying.

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Speaker 3: I mean it is real, real. Yeah, there's even concerned

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Speaker 3: that the already strained US food supply could be targeted

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Speaker 3: by the enemy. The government urges Americans to start growing

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Speaker 3: crops in their backyards and in community gardens, calling them

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Speaker 3: quote victory gardens, which is very smart and true to

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Speaker 3: counteract all the fear and scarcity around food. So with

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Speaker 3: that in context, November eighteenth, nineteen forty two at the

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Speaker 3: Oregon State Hospital is just a regular Wednesday.

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Speaker 1: Aside from all of.

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Speaker 3: That, about thirty people work in the kitchen as dinner

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Speaker 3: is prepared for patients and staff, and thirty might sound

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Speaker 3: like a lot until you realize the cooking staff prepares

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Speaker 3: three meals a day for around three thousand people.

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Speaker 1: So it's huge, huge numbers.

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Speaker 3: But just like every other department at this hospital, the

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Speaker 3: kitchen's also going through a staffing crisis because of the war,

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Speaker 3: so they are understaffed.

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Speaker 1: And overworked as well. And this is how bad it is.

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Speaker 3: Of the thirty kitchen workers, only three of them are

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Speaker 3: actually employed as cooks. We're not sure if there are

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Speaker 3: other staffers in the mix, but the vast majority of

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Speaker 3: the kitchen staff seem to be patients who are called trustees.

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Speaker 3: Trustees don't actually cook the food, but the hospital relies

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Speaker 3: on them for things like washing the dishes and tidying up,

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Speaker 3: and they are not paid for their labor, so they're

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Speaker 3: like patient interns. A combination of inadequate state funding, overcrowding,

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Speaker 3: and wartime rations dictates the menu every day. So at

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Speaker 3: this dinner tonight, the main dish is scrambled eggs.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of horrible.

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Speaker 2: I'm just going to ask you if you thought like

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Speaker 2: the food still tasted better back then than it does today.

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Speaker 2: But I don't want scrambled eggs in any fucking time period.

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Speaker 1: That's disgusting.

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Speaker 3: I hate scrambled egg not even if they're nice and

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Speaker 3: loose and running. Well, I can answer, because I think

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Speaker 3: this is a thing we don't think about as much

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Speaker 3: these days, except for unless you're on food stamps or

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Speaker 3: you know your family has to rely on powdered food.

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Speaker 3: But these eggs are frozen yolks made with powdered milk.

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Speaker 1: Gross.

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Speaker 3: So I'm not thinking it's a delicious morning, you know,

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Speaker 3: start to your day.

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Speaker 1: I can't imagine. Is that, wait, you said for dinner

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Speaker 1: though it's dinner.

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Speaker 2: We had breakfast for dinner a lot as kids, because

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Speaker 2: that was just easy and affordable.

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Speaker 1: And I didn't realize. I was so excited that we're getting.

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Speaker 3: Day is night, night is day, so exciting, we're flipping

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Speaker 3: it all around. I know my dad would make us

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Speaker 3: breakfast and dinner pancakes as long as you put little

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Speaker 3: faces inside. We didn't care what was happening. Okay, So

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Speaker 3: scrambled eggs is basically considered decent sustenance considering that seven cents,

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Speaker 3: which is about a dollar fifty and today's money, is

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Speaker 3: all the hospital is able to allocate to feed each

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Speaker 3: patient per day.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, holy shit.

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Speaker 3: Oregon State Hospital is enrolled in the federal program that's

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Speaker 3: supplies the kitchen with frozen egg yolks, and according to

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Speaker 3: the book inside Oregon State Hospital, quote, without the subsidy,

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Speaker 3: the patients would only be given one egg a week

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Speaker 3: and no meat at all end quote.

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Speaker 1: Wow, so the rationing is very serious.

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Speaker 3: The hospital's latest shipment of eggs came a few months

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Speaker 3: back in February. It contained sixty seven hundred pounds of

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Speaker 3: frozen yolks, divided into two gallon containment.

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Speaker 1: Now you could freeze yolks, and I don't I know

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Speaker 1: like it.

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Speaker 3: Do you think they look like little ice cubes with

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Speaker 3: yellow circles. That's cute with some orange juice.

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Speaker 2: Little cocktail, nice cocktail.

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Speaker 3: The thing is, and I did. I'm going to say

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Speaker 3: this as a person who grew up in the egg

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Speaker 3: basket of the world at one time, Peddlom, California. We're

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Speaker 3: all about the eggs there. I just don't really love

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Speaker 3: interacting with eggs. No, in most ways.

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Speaker 1: I know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you said it yourself, but I'm going to jump

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Speaker 3: right on that bandwagon and pin it back to my hometown. Okay,

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Speaker 3: So these frozen yolks are stored in the basement in

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Speaker 3: store rooms with the rest of the hospital's food supply.

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Speaker 3: This night, dinner served at five o'clock as usual, It's

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Speaker 3: delivered to rooms and in the dining areas.

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Speaker 4: Across several wards. They're far apart.

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Speaker 3: From each other but connected by a tunnel system. But

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Speaker 3: as soon as people start eating their dinner, it's clear

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Speaker 3: something is wrong. These eggs taste funny, and some will

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Speaker 3: describe them as salty. Other people will describe them as soapy.

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Speaker 3: You know. The I think I've had food poisoning twice.

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Speaker 3: The taste that I always tasted was metal. Really have

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Speaker 3: ever had that?

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Speaker 1: No, Like, what kind of food was it?

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Speaker 4: Like one time it was a Chinese chicken.

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Speaker 1: Salad and it was like like a penny.

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Speaker 3: Yes, it was like there was weird metal in there,

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Speaker 3: but it's not like tangy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but it was.

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Speaker 3: Like someone poured a lacroix across my Chinese chicken salad

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Speaker 3: in that way where it's like that doesn't belong, that's

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Speaker 3: not a food taste, and then count down, count it down.

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Speaker 3: So in one section of the hospital, a nurse named

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Speaker 3: all is so uneasy about the taste she orders all

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Speaker 3: of her patients to stop eating these eggs, everybody in

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Speaker 3: the ward. Even still, many people do eat the eggs,

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Speaker 3: even just a bite or two, and then within minutes

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Speaker 3: they begin complaining of leg cramps and nausea that are

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Speaker 3: intensifying as each second passes.

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Speaker 1: Egg cramps. That's scary.

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Speaker 4: I've got egg leg cramps.

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Speaker 2: Like food poisoning that goes to leg places that aren't

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Speaker 2: your gut or your system.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like your fucking leg.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's like in the blood. Oh okay, egg hands.

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Speaker 3: Some start vomiting blood and others stop breathing and their

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Speaker 3: faces turn blue shit. Within an hour of dinner being served,

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Speaker 3: one person is dead. When doctors and nurses show up

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Speaker 3: to help, they're immediately overwhelmed by the massive number of

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Speaker 3: people in That number is in the hundreds needing immediate treatment.

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Speaker 3: So it's just like everybody in the room.

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Speaker 2: Smell this scrambled egg vomit this screen everyone, I'm trying

400
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Speaker 2: to make this.

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to really like build a picture. Yeah, build

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Speaker 1: a world.

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Speaker 3: This is what we do on this show, the world

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00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:10,120
Speaker 3: build with.

405
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Speaker 2: Words, powdered scrambled egg vomit.

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Speaker 3: Sorry, we're gonna call this the brunch episode. Okay. Five

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Speaker 3: hours later, ten people are dead.

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Speaker 1: Jesus. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: By four the next morning, forty staff members and or

410
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Speaker 3: patients have died. By Thursday evening, the death toll hits

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Speaker 3: forty seven. Nurse Ali was Sell's ward is the only

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Speaker 3: one with no victims. She actually ends up getting sick

413
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Speaker 3: from the one bite of eggs she took when she then.

414
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Speaker 4: Was like forks down. Wow, But she does recover.

415
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Speaker 3: The hospital morgue is small, it can only hold a

416
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Speaker 3: few bodies at a time, so victims have to be

417
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Speaker 3: laid out in hallways and in the on site chapel

418
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Speaker 3: until outside mortuaries from around the entire state come and

419
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Speaker 3: take the bodies away.

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Speaker 4: So, based on the.

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Speaker 3: Symptom, it's immediately suspected to be a mass poisoning. Fear

422
00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:07,120
Speaker 3: washes over an already anxious public as newspapers begin reporting

423
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Speaker 3: on this tragedy. Toxicologists test both the victim's stomach contents

424
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Speaker 3: and these eggs themselves. But the frozen yokes were distributed

425
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Speaker 3: by the federal government itself as a part of a

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Speaker 3: wartime food subsidy program and sent to institutions all throughout

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Speaker 3: Oregon and across the country. So the genuine fear that

428
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Speaker 3: these eggs have been deliberately poisoned by enemies of the

429
00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:32,879
Speaker 3: United States to terrorize Americans begins to take hold right like,

430
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Speaker 3: it looks like either they're trying to make it look

431
00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:38,359
Speaker 3: like the government's poisoning their own people or whatever. So

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Speaker 3: before more harm can be done, Oregon's governor orders all

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Speaker 3: organ based beneficiaries of this federal subsidy program to stop

434
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Speaker 3: using frozen yokes immediately, the federal people are like, I

435
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Speaker 3: can't please just one by I love.

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Speaker 1: Them so much. What will I have for dinner?

437
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Speaker 3: What will I have from my noontime snack? The federal

438
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Speaker 3: government then makes a similar order and starts testing its

439
00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:04,680
Speaker 3: surplus eggs for toxins or poison. Meanwhile, scientists from the Army,

440
00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:08,320
Speaker 3: the FDA, and the American Medical Association are dispatched to

441
00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:13,399
Speaker 3: Salem organ to assist local pathologists in its investigation. And

442
00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:16,240
Speaker 3: all of this happens within about a day of the

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Speaker 3: tragedy taking place, so immediately people are.

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Speaker 2: A lot of people to die overtnight from food poisoning.

445
00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:26,879
Speaker 3: And it is what an opening scene for our movie,

446
00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:31,440
Speaker 3: because holy shit, you're those the doctor and the nurse flirting. Yeah,

447
00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:33,760
Speaker 3: kind of interesting in each other, kind of cute, I'm

448
00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:35,480
Speaker 3: not sure, walking talking.

449
00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:36,280
Speaker 1: Yeah.

450
00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:38,560
Speaker 3: Hey, what do you think of the top twenty hits

451
00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:41,879
Speaker 3: of the nineteen forties? How about this war come around

452
00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:42,359
Speaker 3: a corner?

453
00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:45,160
Speaker 2: This is the plot of the movie Airplane that you're

454
00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:47,119
Speaker 2: talking about, And I love that movie.

455
00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:53,080
Speaker 3: Unfunny airplane, But same amount of eggs, Okay. The scientists

456
00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:56,359
Speaker 3: quickly confirm the eggs were laced with a huge amount

457
00:21:56,480 --> 00:22:00,199
Speaker 3: of sodium fluoride oh, which is lethal to humans been

458
00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:01,080
Speaker 3: in small doses.

459
00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:03,320
Speaker 2: Why I thought they were just bad. They were fucking

460
00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:05,000
Speaker 2: lace lace shit.

461
00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:10,120
Speaker 3: And basically, sodium fluoride is rat poison and roach poison.

462
00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:13,240
Speaker 3: Of course, like a state run hospital like that has

463
00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:16,720
Speaker 3: plenty of rat and roach poison on hand. So the

464
00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:20,960
Speaker 3: investigators also determined the eggs were contaminated during the cooking process,

465
00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:25,080
Speaker 3: meaning any other program using the same government subsidized egg

466
00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:30,240
Speaker 3: yolks can rest easy because theirs are fine. Okay, drink away,

467
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:34,800
Speaker 3: defrost and drink away friends. So the mystery is now

468
00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:38,359
Speaker 3: centered squarely inside the Oregon State Hospital kitchen and investigators

469
00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:40,600
Speaker 3: who want to know how and why this poison got

470
00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:44,560
Speaker 3: cooked into a scrambled egg dinner, and somebody's like, don't

471
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:47,520
Speaker 3: serve people this food. Every member of the kitchen crew

472
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:50,280
Speaker 3: is interviewed, but investigators don't get anywhere. None of the

473
00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:54,080
Speaker 3: kitchen staff admits to knowing anything, and investigators worry that

474
00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:57,399
Speaker 3: the trustees testimonies are complicated by the fact that they

475
00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:00,919
Speaker 3: are also psychiatric patients. Of course, But then five days

476
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:03,760
Speaker 3: after the poisoning, a sixty four year old assistant cook

477
00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:05,800
Speaker 3: named Abraham a killop cracks.

478
00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:07,440
Speaker 4: He reveals that is that.

479
00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:08,439
Speaker 1: A pun on purpose?

480
00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:08,880
Speaker 2: Oh?

481
00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:11,600
Speaker 4: Oh, I didn't even think about that.

482
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:12,920
Speaker 2: Wow, that's good.

483
00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:14,680
Speaker 1: I mean cracks bad to me.

484
00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:18,879
Speaker 3: Cracks pokes his little beak out of the shell, cracks

485
00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:21,639
Speaker 3: like an egg. He reveals that on the night of

486
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:24,320
Speaker 3: the poisoning, he was prepping the scrambled eggs and he

487
00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:27,560
Speaker 3: realized that he needed powdered milk for the recipe, but

488
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:29,720
Speaker 3: he was so busy he couldn't step away from the

489
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:30,359
Speaker 3: line and go.

490
00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:31,320
Speaker 4: Get it for himself.

491
00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:34,600
Speaker 3: So he asked one of the patient trustees, a twenty

492
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:37,800
Speaker 3: seven year old named George Nosen, to go downstairs and

493
00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:40,960
Speaker 3: grab the powdered milk for him, and then Abraham gave

494
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:44,240
Speaker 3: the patient his key to the storage rooms downstairs. This

495
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:48,159
Speaker 3: was a break in protocol. Employees are forbidden from giving

496
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:52,359
Speaker 3: patients their hospital keys. Sure, but George Nosen was a

497
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:56,639
Speaker 3: very trusted trustee in the kitchen and Abraham needed a hand.

498
00:23:56,720 --> 00:24:00,680
Speaker 3: So they're understaffed three cooks and also George bend down

499
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,399
Speaker 3: to the basement food storage area before, so this was

500
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:05,840
Speaker 3: something he had done and was used to doing, so

501
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:09,120
Speaker 3: he could be trusted to do it. But here's the problem.

502
00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:12,480
Speaker 3: What George did not know was that there were two

503
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:16,040
Speaker 3: food storage rooms in the basement, both open with the

504
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:16,760
Speaker 3: same key.

505
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:20,800
Speaker 2: One said poison on it and one said food on it.

506
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:22,200
Speaker 4: Poison food food.

507
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:26,359
Speaker 3: I mean, it's this is this is one of the

508
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:31,480
Speaker 3: worst and saddest crazy mix up stories. He didn't purposely kill,

509
00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:35,320
Speaker 3: absolutely not, absolutely not. So when he went down to

510
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 3: get the powdered milk, he unknowingly went into the wrong room,

511
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:41,119
Speaker 3: which is such a mind fuck, Like this idea that

512
00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:45,000
Speaker 3: without your knowing, there's a whole second room that you

513
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:45,840
Speaker 3: could have gone into.

514
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:49,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, but even then, it's like it should say fucking

515
00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:51,960
Speaker 2: poison on it. Fuck, it should say fucking poison.

516
00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:54,600
Speaker 4: Right, It's just.

517
00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:01,159
Speaker 3: Yes, you're exactly right, and keep that bookmark that idea

518
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:04,640
Speaker 3: for later. When George looked around in that second room

519
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:06,800
Speaker 3: that he thought was the first room for the powdered milk,

520
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:10,159
Speaker 3: he thought he found it in this big unlabeled that

521
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:13,280
Speaker 3: sitting right next to all the other food. It was white,

522
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:16,240
Speaker 3: it was odorless power. He scooped out several pounds of

523
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:17,800
Speaker 3: it as requested.

524
00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:18,760
Speaker 1: Said power instead of powder.

525
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:22,760
Speaker 3: Did I really, it's almost over for me and thank

526
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 3: you for everything it's been.

527
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:27,440
Speaker 4: It was white odorless powder.

528
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:33,159
Speaker 3: Sorry, no, because I don't want to say white power.

529
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:37,480
Speaker 1: For Fox's sake. God, I mean, you say it all

530
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:37,840
Speaker 1: the time.

531
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:42,119
Speaker 3: No, don't tell me that it was white odorless powder.

532
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:45,439
Speaker 3: And he scooped out several pounds of it as requested,

533
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 3: and then headed back upstairs handed it over to Abraham,

534
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:53,080
Speaker 3: and around six pounds of that poison was mixed into

535
00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:56,560
Speaker 3: the eggs. State police would later say that just two

536
00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 3: pounds of this powdered sodium fluoride would be enough to

537
00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:01,439
Speaker 3: kill two thousand peaeople, and the fact that it was

538
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 3: so potent probably saved lives because it caused the people

539
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:07,320
Speaker 3: who ate it to immediately vomit.

540
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:11,200
Speaker 2: The poison up right and tasted so fucking weird sodium

541
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:13,920
Speaker 2: whatever the fuck's yeah, so salty or soapy or whatever.

542
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:19,199
Speaker 3: Yeah, jes do immediately be like as opposed to my

543
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:23,840
Speaker 3: delicious powdered milk eggs. Abraham admits to the investigators that

544
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:26,440
Speaker 3: he put two and two together very quickly. Once diners

545
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:32,879
Speaker 3: started showing symptoms, he told the hospital's head chef, Marry O'Hare, hey, Mary,

546
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:36,240
Speaker 3: and they retraced George's steps into the basement, and they

547
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:39,480
Speaker 3: figured out he must mistook the white powder that was

548
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:43,480
Speaker 3: cockroach poison for powdered milk, but they were too afraid

549
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:47,080
Speaker 3: to come forward right away. So both Abraham and Mary

550
00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 3: are arrested, so they were right to be afraid. George

551
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 3: is not arrested. Rumors swirl that they carried out the

552
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 3: poisoning intentionally, it was a terrorist plot of some kind,

553
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:01,399
Speaker 3: but then a grandeury investigation proves that to be a

554
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:04,720
Speaker 3: baseless rumor, and that, considering how stretched thin all the

555
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:07,720
Speaker 3: hospital staff were, an accident like this was bound to

556
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 3: happen because of the staffing shortage. Oregon State Hospital has

557
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:15,359
Speaker 3: been operating without a staff dietitian, and that's the person

558
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:19,000
Speaker 3: who usually is in charge of storing and labeling things

559
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:22,280
Speaker 3: in the basement. So you cut costs and you cut corners,

560
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 3: that's what starts happening. So that's likely how it's possible

561
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:29,359
Speaker 3: that a gigantic vat of cockroach poison would wind up

562
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 3: sitting unlabeled next to real food that's also unlabeled. So

563
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:36,320
Speaker 3: because of these staffing issues, it's impossible for Abraham and

564
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 3: his colleagues to do their jobs without relying heavily on

565
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:42,920
Speaker 3: the patient trustees who are not trained as actual staff

566
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 3: and were not told the detail about the second food

567
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:49,479
Speaker 3: storage room. In the end, the grand jury does not

568
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 3: bring any criminal charges against assistant cook Abraham McKillop, had

569
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:57,040
Speaker 3: chef Mary O'Hare, or George Nosen, and it's easy to

570
00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:00,480
Speaker 3: assume that all three of them were fully traumled tized

571
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:04,400
Speaker 3: for life by this entire event. In fact, the grand

572
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 3: jury makes a very practical recommendation to state lawmakers about

573
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:13,120
Speaker 3: the need for legislation requiring all poisons to be explicitly labeled.

574
00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 1: So exactly what you're saying, and the.

575
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 3: Grand jury takes this opportunity to issue a damning report

576
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 3: about the Oregon State Hospital itself and the impossible responsibilities

577
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:25,720
Speaker 3: of an overwhelmed staff. This goes far beyond the kitchen

578
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 3: staff and far beyond wartime staffing. It also involves incredible

579
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:34,480
Speaker 3: overcrowding and consistent underfunding by lawmakers, which then feeds into

580
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 3: the staffing crisis. According to the book Inside Oregon State Hospital,

581
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 3: in this era, one daytime staffer cares for sixteen patients

582
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:44,959
Speaker 3: at a time. Think of it too many think of

583
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 3: that as like two talks in a restaurant. You have

584
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:51,480
Speaker 3: eight tables of people who need a lot of help totally,

585
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:55,040
Speaker 3: but at night there's only one staffer for every one hundred.

586
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 4: And fifty patients.

587
00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:01,479
Speaker 3: That's just general staff are only eight doctors for more

588
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:05,680
Speaker 3: than twenty seven hundred total patients, which means inevitably employees

589
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 3: are going to rely on things like restraints and confinement

590
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 3: more often than if there were practical patient to caregiver ratio.

591
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 3: So it's basically this situation is worst case. Expectedly, there's

592
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:21,400
Speaker 3: also a ton of employee turnover, with one stat showing

593
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:24,760
Speaker 3: quote one hundred and eight point six eight percent turnover

594
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 3: in staff from nineteen forty to nineteen forty two alone.

595
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:32,080
Speaker 3: Oh my god, everybody is like, by this is horrible.

596
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:35,400
Speaker 3: In the wake of this horrific event, national laws are

597
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:39,480
Speaker 3: passed requiring that poisons be manufactured with clear warning labels.

598
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 4: It seems so obvious.

599
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 3: There are also noted increases in funding and staffing at

600
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:48,720
Speaker 3: American public hospitals, but the poor reputation of American mental

601
00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:52,880
Speaker 3: health care institutions persists. By the nineteen fifties and into

602
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:57,320
Speaker 3: the sixties, there's a growing movement to replace institutionalization with

603
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:01,360
Speaker 3: community based mental health care, wowing patients to live more

604
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 3: normal lives while they get outpatient treatment from doctors and psychiatrists.

605
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:09,120
Speaker 3: Given all the horror stories from psychiatric hospitals, this is

606
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 3: seen as much more humane approach that's conducive to better care.

607
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 3: In nineteen sixty three, President Kennedy actually signs the Community

608
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:20,640
Speaker 3: Mental Health Act that's geared in part to establishing these

609
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:24,520
Speaker 3: types of community mental health care centers across the US,

610
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 3: and that's one of the last pieces of legislation that

611
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 3: he will sign before his assassination. But in the decades

612
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:37,480
Speaker 3: to follow, and especially during the Ronald Reagan era, much

613
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:40,760
Speaker 3: of the funding meant to create these centers is slashed

614
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:44,800
Speaker 3: and Kennedy's vision is never fully realized. And it's often

615
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 3: pointed out that Kennedy was drawn to this issue because

616
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 3: of his sister Rosemary's devastating lobotomy, which Georgia covered in

617
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:56,800
Speaker 3: episode two fifty nine. So public psychiatric care is so

618
00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:01,240
Speaker 3: seriously underfunded in this country that jails and prisons have

619
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:05,479
Speaker 3: now become de facto ill equipped, untrained, and unwilling mental

620
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 3: health providers. And while policies vary from state to state

621
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:12,400
Speaker 3: we are not in a particularly progressive era when it

622
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 3: comes to this issue, particularly at the federal level, and

623
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 3: in fact, I would say that is a sarcastic understatement.

624
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 3: That is, it's probably about as bad as it could be.

625
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:26,920
Speaker 3: So just months ago, Trump's DOJ cut eighty eight million

626
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 3: dollars in grant money for mental health and substance abuse

627
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 3: treatment services and training, which is interesting because Republicans after

628
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 3: every mass shooting always say we need mental health services,

629
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 3: talk about that all the time, and then they cut

630
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 3: the funding. And then in mid January twenty twenty six,

631
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:47,719
Speaker 3: the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration slashed around

632
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 3: two billion dollars in grant money for these services. And

633
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:55,720
Speaker 3: of course Trump's big Beautiful bill cut federal Medicaid funding

634
00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 3: by fifteen percent. That's just some of the cuts to

635
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 3: the mental health services.

636
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 2: In this pub Are we going to go on unnecessary

637
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:06,720
Speaker 2: war we don't have money from people who actually fucking

638
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:07,480
Speaker 2: need it.

639
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:10,200
Speaker 3: It's so blatantly obvious now that I don't think it

640
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:13,240
Speaker 3: can be an argument anywhere. When we just strip money

641
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:17,160
Speaker 3: out of schools, children don't get to have air conditioning

642
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:21,480
Speaker 3: or crayons. Mental health facilities have no staffing, and yet

643
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 3: here we are war in the Middle East that no

644
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:25,880
Speaker 3: one understands why we're.

645
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:28,720
Speaker 2: There, no health insurance, children are starving.

646
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:31,360
Speaker 3: Food is more expensive than it's ever been.

647
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 1: Right, So cost of living is just constantly going out.

648
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:37,719
Speaker 3: It's beyond and it's creating a pressure cooker for people

649
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:41,040
Speaker 3: with mental health issues as well as everybody else.

650
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:43,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, you should point it at me when you said that, but.

651
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 4: You're not wrong, for I meant that was the middle

652
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:49,640
Speaker 4: of the table.

653
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:52,959
Speaker 1: That was an US. I swear, I don't mind it.

654
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 1: Give it to me, please, I'll take it. I'll be that,

655
00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:57,880
Speaker 1: I'll be the spokesperson.

656
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 4: You're like, can we please have money?

657
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 1: Please?

658
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 3: Can we This horrible event the Oregon State hospital poisoning

659
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:08,520
Speaker 3: is a reminder of the stakes of indifference and neglect

660
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:11,959
Speaker 3: when it comes to our national healthcare. As JFK actually

661
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:15,280
Speaker 3: said back in nineteen sixty three quote, the situation has

662
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:18,960
Speaker 3: been tolerated for too long. It has troubled our national conscience,

663
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 3: but only as a problem, unpleasant to mention, easy to postpone,

664
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:26,640
Speaker 3: and despairing of a solution. We can procrastinate no more.

665
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 3: We must promote to the best of our ability. And

666
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:33,240
Speaker 3: by all possible and appropriate means the mental and physical

667
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 3: health of all our citizens.

668
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 1: End quote.

669
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:38,400
Speaker 3: And that's the story of the nineteen forty two poisoning

670
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:39,720
Speaker 3: at Oregon State Hospital.

671
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 2: Wow, and your mom had never talked about it or

672
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:44,600
Speaker 2: and think that yet and heard about it?

673
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:45,280
Speaker 1: No?

674
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 3: No, but I mean I wonder if she would have

675
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 3: learned about it, you know, just for the kinds of

676
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:53,200
Speaker 3: things that can happen if you are going into a

677
00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:55,720
Speaker 3: field where they're used to having their funding cut totally.

678
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 1: I'm sure, I'm sure.

679
00:33:57,440 --> 00:33:59,360
Speaker 3: And there's a real good picture that I think you'd

680
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:02,600
Speaker 3: like because it's basically one of the me it's you

681
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 3: representing all mental health services. It's just that really good

682
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:10,480
Speaker 3: picture of a victory garden that when they used to

683
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 3: do posters.

684
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:13,280
Speaker 4: And I think it's like, it's so timely.

685
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:18,280
Speaker 1: It's such a good picture, right, it's.

686
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:21,040
Speaker 4: Grow your victory garden. It counts more than ever. We

687
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 4: need those.

688
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:24,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, we need to feed ourselves, We need to feed

689
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:26,040
Speaker 3: our communities.

690
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:28,359
Speaker 1: I love that we need to take care of each other.

691
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:30,800
Speaker 1: There's a really good book.

692
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:32,520
Speaker 3: Is it written by zach Alvin Hackets?

693
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:34,719
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, what does that have to do with this?

694
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:36,319
Speaker 4: His gardening show.

695
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 2: All right, it's called The Lost Girls of Willowbrook. You

696
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 2: know Willowbrook State Hospital in Jersey that we talked about

697
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:45,080
Speaker 2: where crops he's from. It's an old school book. It's

698
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:47,760
Speaker 2: a book where a girl goes to find her missing

699
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 2: twin sister and gets committed because they think it's her.

700
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:54,560
Speaker 2: It's like the seventies, and it really explains how awful

701
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 2: the experience is in there, like firsthand. This girl's called

702
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:01,040
Speaker 2: The Lost Girls of Willowbrook by Ellen Marie Wiseman.

703
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:02,080
Speaker 1: Oh, I want to read that.

704
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:04,359
Speaker 2: Highly recommend it if you just like want to get

705
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:10,840
Speaker 2: in there. Yeah, see the reality. Yeah, great, great job,

706
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:14,919
Speaker 2: thank you. Horrible story. Yes, here's another one. Great, well,

707
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:16,840
Speaker 2: this one's got a little bit of a light in

708
00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:20,000
Speaker 2: a dark room kind of story. We're going to do

709
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:22,479
Speaker 2: it in honor of Women's History Month.

710
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:23,200
Speaker 1: Wonderful.

711
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:26,960
Speaker 2: I'm a woman, I'm a history Month. This is the

712
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:29,319
Speaker 2: story of a woman who, in her early twenties, put

713
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:32,239
Speaker 2: herself at great personal risk to save the lives of

714
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:35,280
Speaker 2: more than one hundred and fifty Jewish children in Nazi

715
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 2: occupied Holland. This is the story of Marian Pritchard.

716
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:41,239
Speaker 3: Hell, yes, let's get right into it.

717
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:45,720
Speaker 2: Let's go from fucking World War two to World War two.

718
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:48,840
Speaker 3: Right into that World War two vibe. I just anytime

719
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 3: we talk about these people, it's very exciting. But it's

720
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:54,880
Speaker 3: also that kind of like we should be talking about

721
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:57,160
Speaker 3: what people did during World War two all the time

722
00:35:57,239 --> 00:35:59,400
Speaker 3: because we need to know the rise up energy.

723
00:35:59,520 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 1: That's right.

724
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 2: So the main source for the story is a three

725
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:05,399
Speaker 2: hour interview with Marian from nineteen eighty eight conducted by

726
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 2: USC Showa Foundation and the show. A foundation was established

727
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:12,240
Speaker 2: by Steven Spielberg shortly after he completed Schindler's List.

728
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 1: Did you know that?

729
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:16,280
Speaker 2: It started out by collecting the testimony of Holocaust survivors,

730
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:19,560
Speaker 2: but has expanded to testimony from survivors of events beyond

731
00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:21,600
Speaker 2: World War Two, and the rest of the sources you

732
00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:23,000
Speaker 2: can be found in our show notes.

733
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:25,160
Speaker 1: So Marian Philippa van.

734
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:30,160
Speaker 2: Binsburgenh is born on November seventh, nineteen twenty, in Amsterdam.

735
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 2: Her mother, Grace is English and her father Yakub is Dutch.

736
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:37,360
Speaker 2: He's a judge, coming from a long line of judges

737
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:39,959
Speaker 2: on his family's side, and so Marian has what sounds

738
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:43,800
Speaker 2: like a very happy and idyllic childhood and as a child,

739
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 2: Marian is oblivious to any amount of anti Semitism that

740
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:51,239
Speaker 2: exists in the Netherlands. She's not Jewish, she doesn't really

741
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:54,399
Speaker 2: pay attention to it, although once when she's jumping rope

742
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:56,840
Speaker 2: and singing a jump rope song, her father tells her

743
00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:59,800
Speaker 2: to stop singing it because it's insulting to Jewish people.

744
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 2: So they're a little bit progressive the family, but still

745
00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 2: Marian will find out later decades later that at this

746
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:07,800
Speaker 2: point in time her father does belong to a bridge

747
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:10,160
Speaker 2: club that doesn't allow Jews, which I think is pretty

748
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:14,359
Speaker 2: normal for the time. So antisemitism is certainly around, even

749
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:17,920
Speaker 2: if Marian isn't particularly attuned to it. She does vividly

750
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:21,840
Speaker 2: remember Hitler's rise to power, which happened in Germany around

751
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:24,720
Speaker 2: the time she was in middle school. In her interview,

752
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:28,320
Speaker 2: she says, quote the general Dutch attitude was this clown

753
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:32,040
Speaker 2: can't last. Nobody thought that even if he came to power,

754
00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:34,000
Speaker 2: that that would last. End.

755
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:35,839
Speaker 1: Quote, yeah, heard of it.

756
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:39,120
Speaker 2: What she does notice is that after nineteen thirty three,

757
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:43,080
Speaker 2: more German, Austrian and Polish children start showing up at

758
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:46,520
Speaker 2: her school because their families have fled to the Netherlands.

759
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:49,840
Speaker 2: Around seventh grade, Marian is sent to a British boarding school,

760
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:52,160
Speaker 2: but her father brings her back to Amsterdam for high

761
00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 2: school because he thinks the academics in England are not

762
00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:58,680
Speaker 2: rigorous enough. And then she attends a very academic Dutch

763
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:01,000
Speaker 2: high school. And at school, Mary is aware that some

764
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:04,200
Speaker 2: of her classmates are Jewish because they don't attend school

765
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:07,960
Speaker 2: on Saturday, but other girls come from much more secular families,

766
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 2: so Marian isn't even aware of the true number of

767
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:14,520
Speaker 2: Jewish friends she has until once the Nazis occupy Holland,

768
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:18,560
Speaker 2: and then Ali wrote no to Georgia. Holland is a

769
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:22,040
Speaker 2: region within the Netherlands, and Amsterdam is within this region,

770
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:24,480
Speaker 2: but there are parts of the Netherlands that are not Holland.

771
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:25,799
Speaker 1: Appreciate you.

772
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:29,040
Speaker 3: I don't think we'll ever solve the mystery of Holland.

773
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:30,759
Speaker 1: Yeah.

774
00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:33,160
Speaker 2: Marian says that her father belongs to what would have

775
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:36,480
Speaker 2: been considered a fairly conservative political party in the Netherlands,

776
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:39,879
Speaker 2: but in many ways, her family, particularly her father, are

777
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:43,920
Speaker 2: quite progressive. For example, Marian studies ballet, and at ballet

778
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:47,160
Speaker 2: school she meets several men whom she knows are gay,

779
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:49,600
Speaker 2: and when Marian brings us up with her father. He

780
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:52,480
Speaker 2: tells her that everyone should be treated with respect.

781
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:54,760
Speaker 1: Wow, yeah, which is very progressive.

782
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:55,759
Speaker 4: Yeah back then too.

783
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:58,920
Speaker 2: By the time Maryan's fourteen, she decides that her ambition

784
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:02,319
Speaker 2: in life is to become a psychoanalyst. She has an

785
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:05,080
Speaker 2: older friend who is a nurse in a psychiatric hospital.

786
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:08,759
Speaker 2: Hey parallel, and learning from her friend makes her want

787
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:11,760
Speaker 2: to study psychology. So when she's about nineteen and nineteen forty,

788
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:15,000
Speaker 2: she enrolls in a social work school in Amsterdam, and

789
00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:18,320
Speaker 2: she makes this conscious decision not to go to medical school,

790
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:20,680
Speaker 2: which is what she'd need to do because by this

791
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:23,400
Speaker 2: point the Nazis have already occupied the Netherlands, and in

792
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:26,279
Speaker 2: order to enroll in med school she would have to

793
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:28,759
Speaker 2: swear a loyalty oath to the Nazis.

794
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:30,360
Speaker 1: She doesn't want to do it, so she goes to

795
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:31,800
Speaker 1: social work school instead.

796
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:35,440
Speaker 3: That's really creepy to think that that was That's how

797
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:38,160
Speaker 3: they infiltrated everything, Like what does that have to do?

798
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:41,080
Speaker 4: Why would you have to swear an oath to.

799
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:43,400
Speaker 2: Nazis to go to school because you're only going to

800
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:47,799
Speaker 2: work for the master race to you know, Like God, yeah,

801
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:51,240
Speaker 2: do no harm doesn't really exist anymore.

802
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:52,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, they etched that off.

803
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:58,239
Speaker 3: They're just like more snakes, snakes, snakes around a.

804
00:39:58,239 --> 00:39:59,880
Speaker 1: Bike, snakes around everything.

805
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:01,640
Speaker 4: We love snakes and we love snakes.

806
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:05,360
Speaker 2: The Nazis had invaded the Netherlands in May of nineteen forty,

807
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:08,239
Speaker 2: as you know, four months before Marian had started in

808
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:10,600
Speaker 2: social work school, but they did not deport the Jews

809
00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:13,400
Speaker 2: but the Netherlands right away, and Marian points out in

810
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:15,600
Speaker 2: this interview that one of the reasons for this is

811
00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:18,680
Speaker 2: that the Nazis wanted the help of the Dutch people,

812
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:21,759
Speaker 2: and the Dutch people didn't really have deep currents of

813
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:24,839
Speaker 2: anti Semitism yet. I mean, it was obviously there, but

814
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:28,840
Speaker 2: compared to other countries in Europe, it wasn't as hardcore.

815
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:31,280
Speaker 2: And so even though there was anti Semitism, the idea

816
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:35,239
Speaker 2: of deporting, not to mention killing their Jewish neighbors, was

817
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:38,560
Speaker 2: not really palatable too many of the Dutch, so they

818
00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:43,200
Speaker 2: started slower there around nineteen forty one. Marion believes that

819
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:45,879
Speaker 2: Dutch Jews and Jews from other countries who have fled

820
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:48,680
Speaker 2: to the Netherlands should make plans to leave or go

821
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:51,800
Speaker 2: into hiding. She's noticing how bad it's getting. Her friends

822
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:53,799
Speaker 2: tell her she's crazy, that it's never going to get

823
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:58,040
Speaker 2: that bad, and the Netherlands, and Marian's father is convinced

824
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 2: that it is going to get that bad.

825
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 1: Quote.

826
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:03,160
Speaker 2: My father's one of the few people that read mind

827
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:07,080
Speaker 2: comp from beginning to end. It's awful, dull reading. I

828
00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:11,720
Speaker 2: tried end quote meaning like he fucking saw the writing

829
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:12,919
Speaker 2: on the wall and in the book.

830
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 1: Yeah.

831
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:15,879
Speaker 2: So at this point, Marian is around twenty years old

832
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:19,440
Speaker 2: and her social work courses include one day a week

833
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:22,840
Speaker 2: spent doing field work. So Marian is assigned to a

834
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:25,600
Speaker 2: compound of little houses where families are sent by a

835
00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:28,759
Speaker 2: judge to live. Generally, if the father is an alcoholic

836
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:31,800
Speaker 2: and can't function, the families are sent to these little houses.

837
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:35,160
Speaker 2: Marian and her fellow students usually help out here by

838
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:38,880
Speaker 2: doing activities with the kids. Deportations of Jewish people are

839
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:41,640
Speaker 2: beginning to happen around Amsterdam at this time, and they

840
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:44,520
Speaker 2: are told that they're being deported to work camps and

841
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:46,680
Speaker 2: that families will be kept together, but this is of

842
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:50,399
Speaker 2: course not true. One day, a police officer tips off

843
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:53,440
Speaker 2: the head social worker at Marian's field assignment that a

844
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:57,040
Speaker 2: Jewish family in that compound where she helps the children

845
00:41:57,400 --> 00:41:59,640
Speaker 2: was going to be arrested and deported that night, and

846
00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:02,440
Speaker 2: the social worker. They head social worker, asked each of

847
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:05,880
Speaker 2: the social worker students, including Marian, to take home a

848
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:09,799
Speaker 2: child from that family, knowing that what's happening when they

849
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:13,000
Speaker 2: get deported is not good and it's not what they're

850
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:15,840
Speaker 2: saying it's going to be. Yeah, So that night, Marian

851
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:18,439
Speaker 2: shows up at home with a little two year old boy.

852
00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:22,319
Speaker 3: It's just the stress of like even just thinking about

853
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:24,560
Speaker 3: babysitting my own niece.

854
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:26,239
Speaker 4: We're just like here, take a.

855
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 2: Two year old for the day from their family, from

856
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:29,560
Speaker 2: their family with them.

857
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:30,960
Speaker 1: It does another're ever going to see them again.

858
00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:34,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, nothing's familiar. The tension is right there. And then

859
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:36,640
Speaker 3: just like tend to that child totally.

860
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:38,920
Speaker 1: Oh there. I mean it's just like ice.

861
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:41,440
Speaker 2: You can imagine the same thing happening right now, Like

862
00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:43,920
Speaker 2: take this kid home because their parents might never be

863
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:46,160
Speaker 2: heard from again and they will be part of that

864
00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:47,480
Speaker 2: unless you take this child home.

865
00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:49,920
Speaker 4: I mean that happened to people, That is happening to people.

866
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:52,040
Speaker 3: That did happen to people where like little kids sat

867
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:54,640
Speaker 3: at home alone because their parents were taken and gone,

868
00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:57,320
Speaker 3: and they were just like sitting in a house by themselves,

869
00:42:57,360 --> 00:42:58,840
Speaker 3: sitting in an apartment by themselves.

870
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:02,440
Speaker 2: So her parents are completely on board with this and

871
00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:05,240
Speaker 2: they take care of this little boy for months. Marian's

872
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:08,200
Speaker 2: father understands it the boy must be kept hidden, but

873
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:11,399
Speaker 2: her mom doesn't totally understand the severity and is less

874
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:14,080
Speaker 2: secretive about housing the boy. She like mentions it to

875
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:17,880
Speaker 2: the milkman, who luckily doesn't say anything. But Marian is

876
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:22,600
Speaker 2: very aware via the Nazi controlled newspapers that citizens are

877
00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:26,120
Speaker 2: given a five dollars reward for turning in their Jewish

878
00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:30,719
Speaker 2: neighbors and any neighbors that are hiding Jewish people. That

879
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:35,359
Speaker 2: in today's money five dollars in nineteen forty one or so,

880
00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:37,920
Speaker 2: but also in Dutch month, I'm not going to make

881
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:40,000
Speaker 2: you do it unless she undred one hundred and ten.

882
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:42,439
Speaker 2: And they also warre in Dutch people not to aid

883
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:45,040
Speaker 2: their Jewish neighbors or that they too will be deported.

884
00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:47,760
Speaker 2: So it's just it's not a slap on the wrist

885
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:50,520
Speaker 2: if you are trying to help hide Jewish people. It's

886
00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:52,680
Speaker 2: you're just treated you know.

887
00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:56,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, every criminal, Yeah, everybody goes down. Also, that idea

888
00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:58,399
Speaker 3: that people because it's wartime. Like I was just talking

889
00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:01,880
Speaker 3: about where it's it's the ration. Five dollars is so

890
00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:04,720
Speaker 3: much money, totally, But if you plant a victory garden,

891
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:07,200
Speaker 3: you are not as desperate, right, you know, if there's

892
00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:09,480
Speaker 3: a potato to go around, you don't have to take

893
00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:10,000
Speaker 3: that money.

894
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:13,920
Speaker 2: My grandma, you know, lived in the fields in Poland

895
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:15,680
Speaker 2: for the first seven years of her life because they

896
00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 2: burned down her village in the Quagrom. So she was

897
00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:22,879
Speaker 2: like the youngest of five or six kids, and her

898
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:25,880
Speaker 2: mom would work the potato farms during the day and

899
00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:29,360
Speaker 2: put steal a potato. They'd eat the inside of the

900
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:32,480
Speaker 2: potato for dinner one night, and the next night they'd

901
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:35,279
Speaker 2: eat the skins of the potato. And that was what

902
00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:37,680
Speaker 2: they survived, the whole family for seven years.

903
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:39,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh my god.

904
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:42,960
Speaker 2: And then one of her brothers would steal a horse

905
00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:45,560
Speaker 2: from that. He was like a really charming kid. He'd

906
00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:47,920
Speaker 2: steal a horse from one side, like the German side,

907
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:51,439
Speaker 2: and then sell it back to them next to like, yes,

908
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:52,640
Speaker 2: they survived.

909
00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:55,280
Speaker 1: Somehow, you have to yeah, god, Okay.

910
00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:57,759
Speaker 2: So one day around the spring of nineteen forty two,

911
00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:00,200
Speaker 2: when Marian is twenty one years old. She's right her

912
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:02,840
Speaker 2: bike to class when she passes a home for Jewish children.

913
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:06,000
Speaker 2: These are children that had been brought from Germany into

914
00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:09,040
Speaker 2: the Netherlands to protect them from the Nazis, and now

915
00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:12,440
Speaker 2: they're being deported, most likely to transit camp in the

916
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:16,239
Speaker 2: Netherlands and then Auschwitz. Generally, at these camps, children under

917
00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:19,479
Speaker 2: fifteen are just killed when they arrive immediately. They can't

918
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:22,960
Speaker 2: work elsewhere in Amsterdam, and Frank's family will go into hiding.

919
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:25,239
Speaker 2: A few months later in the summer of nineteen forty two,

920
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:27,920
Speaker 2: when she and her family are eventually discovered and arrested,

921
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:31,680
Speaker 2: they are sent to this transport camp and then to Auschwitz.

922
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:35,440
Speaker 2: So these children who had left their home countries and

923
00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:37,719
Speaker 2: their homes are now being rounded up in front of

924
00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:40,799
Speaker 2: her face. So Mary and of course doesn't know any

925
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:43,480
Speaker 2: of this yet, but watches in horror as she sees

926
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:48,040
Speaker 2: Nazis throwing children onto trucks by their arms, their legs,

927
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:52,399
Speaker 2: one little girl by her pigtails. Marian says, quote, I'm

928
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:55,120
Speaker 2: sitting on my bike and not believing my eyes. There's

929
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:57,919
Speaker 2: two women coming from the other direction, and they tried

930
00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:00,359
Speaker 2: to stop the Nazis and they picked the women up

931
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:03,080
Speaker 2: and threw them on top of the kids and drove off.

932
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:06,520
Speaker 2: And that was when I fully consciously decided that this

933
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:07,000
Speaker 2: was it.

934
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:08,000
Speaker 1: End quote.

935
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:10,560
Speaker 2: So, at twenty one years old, Marian decides to be

936
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:13,960
Speaker 2: formally involved in the hiding of Jewish children from the Nazis.

937
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:17,400
Speaker 2: Marian points out that quote most rescue in Holland was

938
00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:21,120
Speaker 2: not organized. It was individual effort because the fewer people

939
00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:22,120
Speaker 2: who knew the better.

940
00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:23,279
Speaker 1: End quote.

941
00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:25,480
Speaker 2: The two year old boy that had been living with

942
00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:28,720
Speaker 2: them had eventually been moved to another family, and Marian

943
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:30,680
Speaker 2: doesn't want to bring home any more kids to live

944
00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:34,040
Speaker 2: with her family because of her mother's.

945
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:38,200
Speaker 3: Mouth mouth, her mother not getting it.

946
00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:40,120
Speaker 2: It sounds like that yet, yeah, it seems like that's

947
00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:43,040
Speaker 2: what happened. So at first, Marian's main involvement is to

948
00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:45,759
Speaker 2: help shuttle Jewish children, just to do she wants to

949
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:47,719
Speaker 2: still do something even though she can't hide them in

950
00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:50,400
Speaker 2: her own house. So at first, her main involvement is

951
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:53,719
Speaker 2: to help shuttle Jewish children around Amsterdam to families who

952
00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:57,360
Speaker 2: can keep them hidden. She and other young women carry

953
00:46:57,360 --> 00:47:01,040
Speaker 2: the kids around on bicycles, mostly in broad daylight, because

954
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:03,600
Speaker 2: to any observer it would look like the mother and

955
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:08,400
Speaker 2: a child their own child. On multiple occasions, Marian secures

956
00:47:08,440 --> 00:47:11,680
Speaker 2: false papers for Jewish babies. She takes them to city

957
00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:14,640
Speaker 2: Hall on what she described as a quote mission of

958
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:18,520
Speaker 2: disgrace end quote and pretends she's an unwed mother and

959
00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:21,480
Speaker 2: that the children are hers, so she has to show

960
00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:26,319
Speaker 2: up and be shamed and just a niche being an

961
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:29,880
Speaker 2: unwed mother, just so she can get these children papers, which.

962
00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:31,560
Speaker 3: Is like, you know, incredibly badass.

963
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:35,319
Speaker 2: For months, this is how Marian helps, shuttling children back

964
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:38,480
Speaker 2: and forth to families that can house them. She estimates

965
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:40,880
Speaker 2: that she works in some capacity on the hiding of

966
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:44,240
Speaker 2: about one hundred and fifty Jewish children. Then, in December

967
00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:47,200
Speaker 2: of nineteen forty two, a friend asks Marian if she

968
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:49,719
Speaker 2: will live with a Jewish man and his three young

969
00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:53,400
Speaker 2: children to help keep them hidden. They move into a

970
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:57,320
Speaker 2: house outside of Amsterdam, which is at the time unoccupied

971
00:47:57,719 --> 00:48:00,399
Speaker 2: but belongs to a relative of the friend who had

972
00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:02,680
Speaker 2: connected Mary with the family. So the father of this

973
00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:05,720
Speaker 2: family is a man named Fred Pollock, and his children

974
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:09,359
Speaker 2: are Lex who is four, Tom who is two, an

975
00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:12,840
Speaker 2: Erica who's less than a year old, and their mother,

976
00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:16,480
Speaker 2: Edwena Moore, is only half Jewish, but has papers that

977
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:19,880
Speaker 2: seem to obscure that fact, so she's able to move freely,

978
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:23,560
Speaker 2: and she's actually a major figure in the Dutch Resistance.

979
00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:26,239
Speaker 2: But the father and the children are all known to

980
00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:29,480
Speaker 2: be Jewish, so they have to hide. So Marian basically

981
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:33,360
Speaker 2: lives in this house and friends of hers and the

982
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:36,880
Speaker 2: resistance build a hiding place under the floorboards of the

983
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:38,280
Speaker 2: living room for this family.

984
00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:39,800
Speaker 1: By day, it's.

985
00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:41,799
Speaker 2: Covered with a rug and a coffee table, and so

986
00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:44,160
Speaker 2: the family's just able to live in the house, but

987
00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:46,640
Speaker 2: if they need to, the family can hide in this space,

988
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:49,759
Speaker 2: so Marian practices getting everyone in there so she can

989
00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:52,319
Speaker 2: do it in less than a minute, like it just

990
00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:54,879
Speaker 2: has to happen really fast. Yeah, So Marian's friends also

991
00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:58,880
Speaker 2: leave her with a loaded revolver just in case. Marian

992
00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:01,040
Speaker 2: hides it on a shelf behind the bed she sleeps

993
00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:04,080
Speaker 2: in and about a year passes without any incident, and

994
00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:07,560
Speaker 2: then one evening, Marian hears the engine of a car approaching,

995
00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:11,040
Speaker 2: and she knows that this means it's Nazis because local

996
00:49:11,120 --> 00:49:14,520
Speaker 2: Dutch people ride bicycles, so she quickly gets the family

997
00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:17,920
Speaker 2: into the hiding place before opening the door to three Nazis.

998
00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:22,560
Speaker 2: And a Dutch police officer who is now a Nazi collaborator.

999
00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:26,040
Speaker 2: Fucking narc After not finding any Jews in the house

1000
00:49:26,040 --> 00:49:28,600
Speaker 2: because they're all the hiding place, they leave, and so

1001
00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:31,439
Speaker 2: Marian has the family stay hidden for another half an hour,

1002
00:49:32,040 --> 00:49:34,640
Speaker 2: and then she lets the children out and feeds them

1003
00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:36,719
Speaker 2: and puts them to bed and just thinks that they

1004
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:40,520
Speaker 2: they're gone, thinks that the Nazis are gone. But then

1005
00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:45,600
Speaker 2: that Dutch Nazi collaborator comes back and quietly lets himself

1006
00:49:45,640 --> 00:49:49,000
Speaker 2: into the house through an unlocked back door. And you've

1007
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:52,040
Speaker 2: got to wonder, so he comes back alone without the

1008
00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:55,600
Speaker 2: official Nazis. Is he thinking there's a woman alone in

1009
00:49:55,640 --> 00:49:59,120
Speaker 2: this house or is he thinking she's hiding Jewish Jewish people?

1010
00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:01,840
Speaker 2: We don't know, but clearly fucking nefarious.

1011
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:05,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, clearly there's something to be exploited here, and he's

1012
00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:05,719
Speaker 3: here to do it.

1013
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:09,200
Speaker 2: Exactly So Marian hears him, and without stopping to think,

1014
00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:12,480
Speaker 2: she grabs the revolver from its hiding place and intercepts

1015
00:50:12,560 --> 00:50:15,640
Speaker 2: him before he walks further into the house to discover

1016
00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:17,560
Speaker 2: where the children are sleeping, because we're not in the

1017
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:20,760
Speaker 2: hiding place anymore. When they come face to face before

1018
00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:24,120
Speaker 2: either of them can say anything. She shoots and kills him.

1019
00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:27,520
Speaker 2: She says, quote, I couldn't think of anything to do

1020
00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:32,080
Speaker 2: but shoot him, and the quote. Marian is twenty three

1021
00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:34,200
Speaker 2: years old and she's just killed a man, and she

1022
00:50:34,239 --> 00:50:37,440
Speaker 2: has absolutely no idea what to do. But her good friend,

1023
00:50:37,640 --> 00:50:41,080
Speaker 2: a gay Jewish ballet dancer named Carol with a K,

1024
00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:44,280
Speaker 2: is being hidden in the garden shed in the house

1025
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:44,960
Speaker 2: next door.

1026
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:47,160
Speaker 1: He has dyed his hair, has.

1027
00:50:47,080 --> 00:50:50,160
Speaker 2: A fake ID, so he's able to move somewhat freely

1028
00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:53,439
Speaker 2: around the village, and he hears the shots and runs

1029
00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:55,839
Speaker 2: over to her house to see what happened. She tells

1030
00:50:55,880 --> 00:50:58,319
Speaker 2: him what happened, and he says, I'll help you. I've

1031
00:50:58,320 --> 00:51:01,480
Speaker 2: got a plan. Marian says, if it hadn't been for Carol,

1032
00:51:01,960 --> 00:51:04,640
Speaker 2: we would have been in serious trouble. So this guy,

1033
00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:07,839
Speaker 2: here's the shot, and he's like, let's take care of this. Yeah,

1034
00:51:08,160 --> 00:51:10,680
Speaker 2: So essentially he goes into the village, wakes up the

1035
00:51:10,760 --> 00:51:13,160
Speaker 2: baker who he's friends with, and then he and the

1036
00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:15,400
Speaker 2: baker go to see the local undertaker.

1037
00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:16,719
Speaker 1: Sounds like a nursery rhyme.

1038
00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:20,400
Speaker 2: Meanwhile, they're all doing this after Nazi imposed curfew, so

1039
00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:22,080
Speaker 2: it's dangerous even.

1040
00:51:21,880 --> 00:51:24,080
Speaker 1: If he hadn't been Jewish, but he is.

1041
00:51:24,719 --> 00:51:27,120
Speaker 2: And so in the morning, as soon as the curfew

1042
00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:30,000
Speaker 2: is lifted, the baker comes over with his wagon loads

1043
00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:33,560
Speaker 2: the Nazis body onto it, and then he brings the

1044
00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:38,000
Speaker 2: body to the undertaker. And I wonder how many times

1045
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:41,800
Speaker 2: has happened? The undertaker puts the body of this Nazi

1046
00:51:41,800 --> 00:51:46,640
Speaker 2: police officer into a casket under another mind, another man's body.

1047
00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:49,600
Speaker 4: Sorry, I had to jump on that, but so satisfying.

1048
00:51:50,040 --> 00:51:51,960
Speaker 1: It's satisfying how many.

1049
00:51:52,120 --> 00:51:54,560
Speaker 3: And that idea that like there is something to be

1050
00:51:54,680 --> 00:51:58,799
Speaker 3: done within these insane circumstances, which is stick together and

1051
00:51:58,840 --> 00:51:59,760
Speaker 3: make a plan together.

1052
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:01,840
Speaker 2: Right, What can you do if you're not the undertaker,

1053
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:03,600
Speaker 2: you're the baker, and you have a way to transport

1054
00:52:03,640 --> 00:52:05,200
Speaker 2: the body, like you can do something.

1055
00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:08,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, And everybody has a kind of part, these parts

1056
00:52:08,239 --> 00:52:09,080
Speaker 3: to play, right.

1057
00:52:10,200 --> 00:52:12,600
Speaker 2: So the Nazis buried that day with the other man,

1058
00:52:12,719 --> 00:52:14,240
Speaker 2: and nobody is the wiser.

1059
00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:15,680
Speaker 1: Marian says quote.

1060
00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:18,560
Speaker 2: The world at the time did not neatly divide up

1061
00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:23,719
Speaker 2: into perpetrators, victims, bystanders and rescuers. The delivery man wasn't

1062
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:27,360
Speaker 2: actively involved in the resistance. The mortician wasn't actively involved

1063
00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:31,920
Speaker 2: in the resistance, and yet when asked, they cooperated.

1064
00:52:31,560 --> 00:52:33,600
Speaker 3: Because they know good from bad. I mean, it is

1065
00:52:33,640 --> 00:52:37,319
Speaker 3: such a clear thing. Difficult if you are on meth,

1066
00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:40,799
Speaker 3: which many people were apparently, and difficult if you get

1067
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:44,280
Speaker 3: brainwashed by this idea that you need to feel superior

1068
00:52:44,360 --> 00:52:47,239
Speaker 3: to totally something else. But yeah, everybody else is looking

1069
00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:50,560
Speaker 3: at it, going, Yeah, if there's men picking up children

1070
00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:52,560
Speaker 3: by their pigtails and paying him to the back of

1071
00:52:52,600 --> 00:52:54,399
Speaker 3: the truck, the men are the bad guys, not.

1072
00:52:54,440 --> 00:52:57,200
Speaker 1: The two years totally kid with the pigtails.

1073
00:52:57,680 --> 00:53:00,680
Speaker 2: As for the Dutch Nazi collaborator or the guy she killed,

1074
00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:04,840
Speaker 2: it sounds like he had been disliked by everybody to

1075
00:53:04,880 --> 00:53:05,400
Speaker 2: begin with.

1076
00:53:05,880 --> 00:53:07,759
Speaker 3: Yeah he's a fucking Nazi collaborator.

1077
00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:10,399
Speaker 1: But it doesn't seem like even the Nazis looked for him.

1078
00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:13,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, like it was here, wasn't one of them, He's

1079
00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:15,640
Speaker 2: nobody goes looking for him, So no one goes and

1080
00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:19,680
Speaker 2: looks into it, right. Marion and the Pollock family lived

1081
00:53:19,719 --> 00:53:22,279
Speaker 2: together in the house for about another year until the

1082
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:25,240
Speaker 2: war ends, so it doesn't seem like the story comes

1083
00:53:25,239 --> 00:53:28,799
Speaker 2: to light until later, when Marian starts speaking about her

1084
00:53:28,840 --> 00:53:33,560
Speaker 2: experiences in the eighties, so that was just kept a secret.

1085
00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:35,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, glad she talked about it.

1086
00:53:36,400 --> 00:53:39,400
Speaker 2: There were about one hundred and forty thousand Jewish people

1087
00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:42,120
Speaker 2: living in the Netherlands, and about twenty eight thousand of

1088
00:53:42,160 --> 00:53:45,280
Speaker 2: them went into hiding during the war. Of that twenty

1089
00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:50,120
Speaker 2: eight thousand, about twelve thousand were ultimately discovered. In hindsight,

1090
00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:53,440
Speaker 2: we can see that people underestimated the dangers of presenting

1091
00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:57,080
Speaker 2: themselves to the Nazis for deportation to what were described

1092
00:53:57,120 --> 00:54:02,240
Speaker 2: at the time as labor camps, so and actually overestimated

1093
00:54:02,239 --> 00:54:03,800
Speaker 2: the dangers of going into hiding.

1094
00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:06,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, almost like that mentality of it'll just be easier

1095
00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:07,719
Speaker 3: if you do what they want.

1096
00:54:08,840 --> 00:54:11,000
Speaker 1: Why didn't you cooperate? You should have cooperated.

1097
00:54:11,160 --> 00:54:15,399
Speaker 3: I think we've all learned that lesson at this point. Yeah,

1098
00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:19,280
Speaker 3: cooperation is the big mistake, and that's why they say that,

1099
00:54:19,280 --> 00:54:20,000
Speaker 3: that's why.

1100
00:54:20,040 --> 00:54:24,320
Speaker 1: Can't cooperate with fucking liars. Yeah, your resistance is crucial.

1101
00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:27,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course hiding was also extremely dangerous, but the

1102
00:54:27,480 --> 00:54:29,880
Speaker 2: odds of survival were better. This could not have been

1103
00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:34,160
Speaker 2: achieved without people on the individual level, like Marion, stepping

1104
00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:37,160
Speaker 2: into help in whatever way they could. Marian points out

1105
00:54:37,160 --> 00:54:39,840
Speaker 2: that the parents who gave their children up to be

1106
00:54:39,960 --> 00:54:43,799
Speaker 2: hidden were making the most wrenching decision possible and were

1107
00:54:43,840 --> 00:54:47,480
Speaker 2: not even completely sure it was the right one. She says,

1108
00:54:47,560 --> 00:54:50,680
Speaker 2: quote the greatest rescuers of children were the parents who

1109
00:54:50,719 --> 00:54:53,279
Speaker 2: gave them up end quote. I mean, there's so many

1110
00:54:53,320 --> 00:54:57,400
Speaker 2: stories from that time, kindertransport and all this.

1111
00:54:57,719 --> 00:55:00,680
Speaker 3: They were like people who would smuggle you wish babies

1112
00:55:00,760 --> 00:55:04,160
Speaker 3: out of the slums were they called the ghettos. Yeah,

1113
00:55:04,200 --> 00:55:06,040
Speaker 3: the ghettos where it's like a guy would go in

1114
00:55:06,080 --> 00:55:08,239
Speaker 3: to fix a pipe, right and they would stick a

1115
00:55:08,239 --> 00:55:10,520
Speaker 3: baby underneath it. I mean, like those kinds of things

1116
00:55:10,520 --> 00:55:12,240
Speaker 3: are just like, thank God for those people.

1117
00:55:12,400 --> 00:55:17,799
Speaker 2: My other Grandma's from Warsaw, I mean somebody after the war.

1118
00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:22,319
Speaker 2: Marion works for the United Nations Relief and Rehabilitation Administration.

1119
00:55:22,480 --> 00:55:25,560
Speaker 2: Is a social worker in a displaced person's camp in Germany.

1120
00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:28,520
Speaker 2: These camps were where survivors and refugees were housed until

1121
00:55:28,560 --> 00:55:33,040
Speaker 2: they could reconnect with any other surviving family members. It's

1122
00:55:33,080 --> 00:55:35,839
Speaker 2: just so crazy that like basically when the camps were

1123
00:55:36,880 --> 00:55:37,680
Speaker 2: what's the word.

1124
00:55:37,640 --> 00:55:40,200
Speaker 3: Broken up, like invaded, liberated, liberated.

1125
00:55:40,320 --> 00:55:43,360
Speaker 2: When the camps were liberated, a lot of the prisoners

1126
00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:45,920
Speaker 2: had to stay there and live there because their homes

1127
00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:47,200
Speaker 2: had been given away.

1128
00:55:47,320 --> 00:55:49,240
Speaker 1: Or their entire families were murdered.

1129
00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:51,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, they had to stay there until they could figure

1130
00:55:51,320 --> 00:55:54,360
Speaker 2: out what to do. A lot of that is hence Israel. Like,

1131
00:55:54,440 --> 00:55:56,120
Speaker 2: it's just such an insane.

1132
00:55:56,080 --> 00:56:00,560
Speaker 1: Extreme extreme what an experience like what a Yeah, So

1133
00:56:00,800 --> 00:56:02,320
Speaker 1: basically they had to live there.

1134
00:56:02,400 --> 00:56:06,080
Speaker 2: And there is where Marion meets a US Army officer

1135
00:56:06,280 --> 00:56:08,640
Speaker 2: named Anton Pritchard and they fall in love and get

1136
00:56:08,680 --> 00:56:09,680
Speaker 2: married at the camp.

1137
00:56:10,760 --> 00:56:13,560
Speaker 3: I know, when life is that extreme, it's like something

1138
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:19,399
Speaker 3: growing out of such incredibly dark, tragic times.

1139
00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:20,759
Speaker 1: The most beautiful. I mean, that's like the human experience, right.

1140
00:56:21,640 --> 00:56:24,239
Speaker 2: Marian and Anton moved to New York, where Marian goes

1141
00:56:24,280 --> 00:56:27,759
Speaker 2: back to school to become a psychoanalyst, and she works

1142
00:56:27,800 --> 00:56:31,280
Speaker 2: at a renowned children's psychiatric hospital in the northern suburbs

1143
00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:34,000
Speaker 2: of New York City for much of her career. She

1144
00:56:34,080 --> 00:56:37,480
Speaker 2: also goes on to teach at Clark University in Wooster,

1145
00:56:37,920 --> 00:56:41,480
Speaker 2: Massachusetts and thank you to Ali for putting it phanatically,

1146
00:56:42,239 --> 00:56:45,960
Speaker 2: which is known for its highly regarded psychology program. She's

1147
00:56:46,080 --> 00:56:49,160
Speaker 2: educated new generations of mental health professionals, many of whom

1148
00:56:49,239 --> 00:56:51,760
Speaker 2: ultimately choose to go into the field because of Marion.

1149
00:56:52,320 --> 00:56:55,640
Speaker 2: One colleague says, quote, not only did she save lives

1150
00:56:55,719 --> 00:56:58,840
Speaker 2: during the nineteen forties, but she continues to save lives

1151
00:56:58,840 --> 00:57:02,319
Speaker 2: today through her inflame us end quote. So yay for

1152
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:05,280
Speaker 2: mental health professionals, Yeah, and leaders.

1153
00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:06,080
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1154
00:57:06,120 --> 00:57:08,920
Speaker 2: And Marian dies in twenty sixteen at the age of

1155
00:57:09,120 --> 00:57:13,000
Speaker 2: ninety six. Her family writes an obituary about her, detailing

1156
00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:15,719
Speaker 2: her accomplishments in World War Two. But this is the

1157
00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:19,680
Speaker 2: anecdote they end with saying, quote, Marian Pritchard was loving

1158
00:57:19,800 --> 00:57:24,160
Speaker 2: and caring with family and friends, and involved and conscientious citizen,

1159
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:28,080
Speaker 2: and a person of great courage and compassion. On one occasion,

1160
00:57:28,120 --> 00:57:30,640
Speaker 2: an adult niece and her husband arrived at her home,

1161
00:57:30,760 --> 00:57:34,439
Speaker 2: frazzled from a long trip with four restless children. One

1162
00:57:34,480 --> 00:57:38,120
Speaker 2: of them asked, is their life after children? Marian calmly replied,

1163
00:57:38,520 --> 00:57:42,640
Speaker 2: life is children end quote. And that is the story

1164
00:57:42,760 --> 00:57:45,680
Speaker 2: of Dutch resistance hero Marion Pritchard.

1165
00:57:45,960 --> 00:57:48,040
Speaker 4: Wow, I don't.

1166
00:57:48,200 --> 00:57:50,880
Speaker 3: I mean, I feel like I've heard versions of that story,

1167
00:57:51,000 --> 00:57:53,600
Speaker 3: or like the fictionalized versions of that story, but I

1168
00:57:53,640 --> 00:57:55,200
Speaker 3: love hearing the name.

1169
00:57:55,440 --> 00:57:55,840
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1170
00:57:55,880 --> 00:57:58,880
Speaker 2: So that's for women's history a month, and for how

1171
00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:00,200
Speaker 2: fucked up the world is right?

1172
00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:00,320
Speaker 1: Right now?

1173
00:58:00,400 --> 00:58:03,920
Speaker 3: Yeah? Really, Marian, she was doing it. She didn't give

1174
00:58:03,960 --> 00:58:04,280
Speaker 3: a shit.

1175
00:58:04,440 --> 00:58:06,120
Speaker 1: No, she did give a shit.

1176
00:58:06,600 --> 00:58:07,360
Speaker 4: She did give a shit.

1177
00:58:07,440 --> 00:58:08,200
Speaker 1: You have to give a shit.

1178
00:58:08,400 --> 00:58:09,600
Speaker 3: You have to give a shit. You have to make

1179
00:58:09,640 --> 00:58:11,000
Speaker 3: the baker give a shit. You have to make the

1180
00:58:11,040 --> 00:58:12,000
Speaker 3: undertaker give a shit.

1181
00:58:12,080 --> 00:58:13,040
Speaker 1: You have to get them, you have.

1182
00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:16,760
Speaker 3: To organize them, that's right. And then save some people.

1183
00:58:16,880 --> 00:58:17,320
Speaker 1: That's right.

1184
00:58:17,640 --> 00:58:19,200
Speaker 4: It's not a tall task.

1185
00:58:19,520 --> 00:58:23,480
Speaker 1: I mean, be a decent human being is all we're asking.

1186
00:58:23,720 --> 00:58:27,880
Speaker 3: Just save some children. Focus on children. That's right, for

1187
00:58:27,960 --> 00:58:32,240
Speaker 3: once in your life. Well, that was a very deep

1188
00:58:32,840 --> 00:58:34,160
Speaker 3: episode that we just did.

1189
00:58:34,280 --> 00:58:37,920
Speaker 2: I didn't expect that. That was a very like moving episode. Yeah,

1190
00:58:38,200 --> 00:58:39,120
Speaker 2: good job you guys.

1191
00:58:39,400 --> 00:58:43,280
Speaker 3: Hey listeners, handle it, stay sexy and don't get murdered.

1192
00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:52,520
Speaker 1: Good goodbye, Elvis. Do you want a cookie?

1193
00:58:54,120 --> 00:58:55,800
Speaker 4: This has been an exactly right production.

1194
00:58:56,000 --> 00:58:58,720
Speaker 2: Our senior producer is Mollie Smith and our associate producer

1195
00:58:58,760 --> 00:58:59,480
Speaker 2: is Tessa Hughes.

1196
00:58:59,560 --> 00:59:02,720
Speaker 1: Our edit is Aristotle Lascevedo. This episode was mixed by

1197
00:59:02,800 --> 00:59:06,560
Speaker 1: Leona Squalacci. Our researchers are Mary McGlashan and Ali Elkin.

1198
00:59:06,680 --> 00:59:09,400
Speaker 1: Email your hometowns to my favorite murder at gmail dot

1199
00:59:09,440 --> 00:59:12,240
Speaker 1: com and follow the show on Instagram at My Favorite Murder.

1200
00:59:12,280 --> 00:59:15,080
Speaker 2: Listen to My Favorite Murder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple

1201
00:59:15,160 --> 00:59:17,080
Speaker 2: Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

1202
00:59:17,080 --> 00:59:19,520
Speaker 3: And now you can watch My Favorite Murder on Netflix.

1203
00:59:19,640 --> 00:59:21,680
Speaker 2: And when you're there, hit the double thumbs up and

1204
00:59:21,720 --> 00:59:22,920
Speaker 2: the remind Me buttons.

1205
00:59:23,120 --> 00:59:26,200
Speaker 1: That's the best way you can support our show. Goodbye,