1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:12,440 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. All they wanted to do 2 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:17,040 Speaker 1: was buy a car, a used car. Just recently, my 3 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 1: husband David and I decided we had to break down 4 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:22,919 Speaker 1: and buy a new minivan after twelve years with the 5 00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:26,759 Speaker 1: Toyota Sienna. And we looked and we looked, and we 6 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 1: would take the children with us through car dealerships used 7 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 1: new Some of them were open, some of them were closed. 8 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 1: I never thought that I would be attacked by a 9 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:48,240 Speaker 1: gunman and shot dead looking for a car, leaving my 10 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 1: children without a mommy or a daddy. That's what happened. 11 00:00:55,520 --> 00:01:02,320 Speaker 1: And I want justice for this family, the Roland family, 12 00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:16,280 Speaker 1: mommy and daddy, dad, leaving five children left to grow 13 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:20,000 Speaker 1: up without their parents. I mean, it's see Grace, this 14 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 1: is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here 15 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 1: at Fox Nation and Syrie Sex sam one eleven. First 16 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 1: of all, take her listen to our France at k USA. 17 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:33,120 Speaker 1: Police say the Rolands met up with Brown two fridays 18 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:36,279 Speaker 1: ago in Aurora to purchase a vehicle he listed on Lego, 19 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:39,800 Speaker 1: an online app to buy and sell used things. According 20 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 1: to their daughter, Joseph Roland, flipped cars for a living. 21 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:46,279 Speaker 1: The affidavit details a police interview with Kyrie Brown, wherein 22 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 1: he allegedly admitted to stealing the car and posting it 23 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:51,840 Speaker 1: for sale on the app using a fake name. On 24 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 1: the night of August fourteenth, when the Rolands met up 25 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 1: with Brown, the affidavit says he told them he had 26 00:01:56,720 --> 00:01:59,280 Speaker 1: brought the wrong ownership title and asked them to follow 27 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:01,560 Speaker 1: him to his home. According to the details of his 28 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:04,200 Speaker 1: interview in the Affidavid, that's when Brown got out of 29 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:06,880 Speaker 1: his car, pointed a gun at the couple, and demanded 30 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 1: the money for the car. You know, it just breaks 31 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:13,160 Speaker 1: my heart to even hear this. Let me introduce an 32 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:15,320 Speaker 1: all star panel to break it down and put it 33 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:20,360 Speaker 1: back together again. Very famous or should I say infamous? 34 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:24,600 Speaker 1: Defense lawyer Troy Slayton criminal defense attorney joining us out 35 00:02:24,639 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 1: of LA Renowned psychiatrist doctor Angela Arnold joining us at 36 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:34,520 Speaker 1: the Atlanta Jurisdiction at Angela Arnold, MD, dot com Professor Forensics, 37 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:38,320 Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University and author of Blood Beneath My Feet. 38 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:42,960 Speaker 1: Now he's a star. Poisonous Liaisons on True Crime Network 39 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan, but first Levi Page Crime Online dot 40 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:50,840 Speaker 1: com investigative reporter joining us with the latest. And if 41 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 1: you want to see this family and see the evidence 42 00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:57,160 Speaker 1: that we've managed to obtain so far, you can find 43 00:02:57,160 --> 00:03:00,919 Speaker 1: it at crime online dot com. LEVI explain to me 44 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:05,680 Speaker 1: how this family, and I'm not laying fault on Jocelyn 45 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:11,400 Speaker 1: and Joseph Rowland. People answer Craigslist ass and this is 46 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:15,360 Speaker 1: called let go. They go online all the time to 47 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 1: find stuff. I do it. I go online all the 48 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:21,519 Speaker 1: time to seek out things for the twins, find out 49 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:24,360 Speaker 1: where I can get it. What is it? How did 50 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:29,880 Speaker 1: they end up with this minion from hell? So Nancy 51 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 1: Joseph Rowland, he's thirty nine years old, and his wife 52 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:37,120 Speaker 1: Josceland Roland, she's sporty. They had five kids, and Joseph 53 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 1: worked at somebody. Wait a minute, wait a minute, right there, 54 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:45,320 Speaker 1: right there, jose got Morgan normally right now, I go 55 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:49,080 Speaker 1: to our shrink, doctor Angela Arnold. But knowing that you 56 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 1: just shipped your son away to join the military, can 57 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:58,680 Speaker 1: you imagine five children? That's your life. I've heard you 58 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:01,440 Speaker 1: and talk to you all your going through being away 59 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:06,480 Speaker 1: from your son. Five children. I mean, just Scott, we 60 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 1: sink our whole lives into our children. Can you imagine 61 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:15,960 Speaker 1: them growing up without mommy or daddy five children. No, 62 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:18,560 Speaker 1: I certainly can't, Nancy. And you know my son is 63 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:26,960 Speaker 1: just left. He's a grown man now. He's not exactly 64 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 1: he's nineteen, he's nineteen, but he's growing up. Yeah, I know. 65 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 1: But these are babies, Nancy, and now they're without a 66 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:38,160 Speaker 1: mommy and daddy. They're They're not gonna be there to 67 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:40,080 Speaker 1: kiss them. They're not gonna be there to take care 68 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 1: of them when they're sick, and they're not gonna be 69 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 1: there to bathe them and put them to bed at night, 70 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:46,840 Speaker 1: pray with them, take care of them like moms and 71 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:50,039 Speaker 1: dad should. These kids are left as orphans. You know, 72 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 1: I'm looking at a picture of mom and dad a 73 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:58,080 Speaker 1: five Joe and jos and Rowland and the children. They 74 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:02,640 Speaker 1: are not nineteen. They're dy biddiot. Looks like they're on 75 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 1: a vacation. They've got an ATV behind them. They must 76 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 1: must be out, Oh my goodness. And here's the picture 77 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 1: of them hugging each other, the mom and the dad. 78 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:16,080 Speaker 1: To you, back to you, Levi Page. I only broke 79 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:19,200 Speaker 1: in because I know you don't have children yet, But 80 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 1: when you do, I'll give you plenty of unsolicited advice, 81 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:26,360 Speaker 1: LEVI how old are these children? So some of them 82 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 1: are teenagers, others are really young school aged kids. And 83 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:35,000 Speaker 1: I'm looking at one little boy and he looks like 84 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 1: he maybe five maybe, And there's a boy and a girl. 85 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 1: They look like twins to me, I don't think they are. 86 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:45,720 Speaker 1: They remind me of John David and Lucy be held 87 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:50,080 Speaker 1: On oldest is seventeen. They look like twins like John 88 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:52,680 Speaker 1: David and Lucy. He's so much taller than her. The 89 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:56,680 Speaker 1: little boy looks just like the little sister. And they 90 00:05:56,760 --> 00:06:00,200 Speaker 1: look to be maybe nine, eight or nine years old. 91 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 1: And the little boy looks like he's five. And then 92 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:07,239 Speaker 1: I see two other girls. One looks like she maybe 93 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:10,599 Speaker 1: fourteen fifteen, and the other one I guess is a 94 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 1: seventeen year old. How in the hey did they get 95 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 1: hooked up with Billzebub? Straight out of Hell's Gates Kyrie Brown. 96 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 1: So Joseph Rowland worked as someone that would flip cars, 97 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:26,440 Speaker 1: you know, help people flip houses. They take a house 98 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 1: that may be in distress, a little older, they fix 99 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 1: it up, they sell it and they make a profit. 100 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 1: He would do the same thing with vehicles. So he 101 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:40,039 Speaker 1: was going to purchase this twenty seventeen Toyota rav Or 102 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:42,599 Speaker 1: on the let Go app. Okay, wait wait wait, stop 103 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:46,280 Speaker 1: right there, stop right there, Troyce Layton. You know my 104 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:50,680 Speaker 1: new books coming out in September into September, I dedicated 105 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:53,480 Speaker 1: a whole chapter and don't be a victim fighting back 106 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 1: against America's crime wave. You know why, Troyce Layton, because 107 00:06:57,040 --> 00:07:01,039 Speaker 1: people like your clients use Craig List and let Go 108 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 1: and they lure innocent, unsuspecting victims to their death. I mean, 109 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:11,320 Speaker 1: do you remember the Craigslis killer choice Lytton. He would 110 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 1: answer people online and then would kill them. Remember that, absolutely, 111 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 1: there's a lot of crime. There's a lot of crime 112 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 1: associated with it. Most of the time it's financial crime. 113 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 1: Bad check. Really tell that to the Craigslis killer victims families. 114 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 1: And here Joe and Jocelyn looked like they did everything 115 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 1: that you would advise someone to do. They went to 116 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 1: an open place, they went to a mall. They didn't 117 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:42,040 Speaker 1: want to meet the person in a secluded place. They 118 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:46,680 Speaker 1: did what you would advise someone to do, and they 119 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:50,880 Speaker 1: were they The killer tried to lure them back to 120 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 1: his apartment and they didn't. They weren't willing to go 121 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 1: with him. But what I would do here if I 122 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:01,160 Speaker 1: were to be the defense attorney on the case, is 123 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:05,440 Speaker 1: I would get a forensic psychologist like Angela immediately on 124 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 1: the case because I want to find mitigating circumparied, Oh Lord, 125 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 1: here we go. Hold on, hold on, why don't you 126 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 1: hear the whole thing before you jump up and starts 127 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 1: talking about mitigation crime stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, the 128 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:35,199 Speaker 1: victims in this case, you something called let go, and 129 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 1: I'm about to tell you all about it, but first 130 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:39,960 Speaker 1: take a listen to this. On the night of August fourteenth, 131 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:42,760 Speaker 1: when the Rolands met up with Brown, the affidavit says 132 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 1: he told them he had brought the wrong ownership title 133 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:47,640 Speaker 1: and asked them to follow him to his home. According 134 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 1: to the details of his interview in the affidavit, that's 135 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 1: when Brown got out of his car, pointed a gun 136 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 1: at the couple and demanded the money for the car. 137 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:58,120 Speaker 1: Brown then alleges that Joseph Roland grabbed his arm. According 138 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:00,720 Speaker 1: to the affidavit, that's when Brown admits to Lease that 139 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:04,800 Speaker 1: he intentionally shot Joseph and accidentally shot Jocelyn in their car. 140 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 1: The court record then says Brown told the investigators he 141 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 1: drove the stolen car to an area near Havana Street 142 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 1: and East Colfax Avenue in Aurora, where he then set 143 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 1: it on fire. Let Go is an app plus right 144 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:20,240 Speaker 1: up on your phone. It's not just about cars, it's 145 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:23,280 Speaker 1: anything you want to buy or sell. It's the news 146 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:26,800 Speaker 1: genre of craigslist. You were just hearing our friends at 147 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:31,560 Speaker 1: KUSA reporting on this. A mom and dad go to 148 00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:36,920 Speaker 1: buy a used Toyota rav four. They're both shot dead. 149 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 1: And I make it very very clear in the pages 150 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 1: and pages of tips to keep you safe, insist on 151 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:45,199 Speaker 1: meeting in a public place. You just heard that from 152 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 1: Troy Slayton. Never go to the other parties home. Don't 153 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:56,520 Speaker 1: follow them. If they show up without the documents or 154 00:09:56,559 --> 00:09:59,680 Speaker 1: whatever it is they need at the meeting, don't follow 155 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:03,160 Speaker 1: them anywhere. And don't, for Pete's sake, invite them to 156 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:07,000 Speaker 1: your home. Take your cell phone with you, take someone 157 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 1: with you, let others know where you are going. I 158 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:14,679 Speaker 1: mean it goes on and on. Exercise extreme caution buying 159 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 1: and selling. I mean, there's so many things that really 160 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:22,760 Speaker 1: are just common sense. But actually the Rolands followed many 161 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 1: of those tips and they're still dead. Back to you, 162 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:30,120 Speaker 1: Leavi Page Crime online dot com investigative reporter. I now 163 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:33,880 Speaker 1: know what let go is. It's a knee generation of Craigslist. 164 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:38,840 Speaker 1: So they find this guy Kyrie Brown on let Go. 165 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:41,840 Speaker 1: Then what happens? So they met him in a mall, 166 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:45,199 Speaker 1: like you say, that's where people want to meet, where 167 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:50,679 Speaker 1: people they're buying from out in public, and Kyrie Brown says, 168 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:54,280 Speaker 1: I got my paperwork mixed up. I got the wrong paperwork. 169 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:57,560 Speaker 1: Can you follow me back to my apartment? So write 170 00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:01,400 Speaker 1: there Doctor Angela Arnold, psychiatrist and Angela Arnold MD dot 171 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 1: com Right there, Angela, knowing what I know, having worked 172 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:10,040 Speaker 1: in the crime arena for sa many years, I would say, no, 173 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:16,560 Speaker 1: absolutely not. But why should they suspect anything nefarious? Well, 174 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:19,080 Speaker 1: I don't know. With the way everything goes on in 175 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:22,080 Speaker 1: this world today, I would always have my I would 176 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:24,960 Speaker 1: always have my feelers up for something to furious. Although 177 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:29,640 Speaker 1: I do feel like they probably apparently this couple does 178 00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:33,319 Speaker 1: this a lot. They flipped cars and so they had 179 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:36,120 Speaker 1: a sense of calm about this. It sounds like they 180 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:39,000 Speaker 1: had developed a sense of trust with the people that 181 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 1: they were working with, and unfortunately this was not a 182 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:46,160 Speaker 1: person that they could trust. From what I understand Joseph Scott, Morgan, 183 00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 1: Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University and author now the star 184 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:56,559 Speaker 1: of Poisonous Liaisons, Joe Scott. From what I am understanding 185 00:11:56,720 --> 00:12:00,440 Speaker 1: from the police records we've been able to obtain, the 186 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 1: mom and the dad died just five minutes apart. Now, 187 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:13,000 Speaker 1: that doesn't fit with Kyrie Brown, the shooter's scenario that 188 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:16,360 Speaker 1: he is floating out to see a copsil buy it 189 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:21,560 Speaker 1: number one. According to police documents that we've obtained, he 190 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:27,000 Speaker 1: confesses to killing the dad, shooting him dead, and Joseph 191 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:31,360 Speaker 1: Rowland was unarmed. But then he says he shot the 192 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:38,319 Speaker 1: mom by accident in her car. Yet they die five 193 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:43,200 Speaker 1: minutes apart. What can we learn about what really happened, 194 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:47,200 Speaker 1: because you know, I don't believe the defendant from the forensics, 195 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:49,800 Speaker 1: Joe Scott, help me. I think range of fire is 196 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:51,720 Speaker 1: going to be critical here, Nancy. And this is why, 197 00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:55,959 Speaker 1: remember what you just said, regular people talk place before 198 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:58,560 Speaker 1: he started off with the range of fire. Well, what 199 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:01,600 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about is the fact that the 200 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:06,360 Speaker 1: shooter their relationship to the victims is probably going to 201 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:10,280 Speaker 1: be relatively close. Remember what you said. Both of these people, 202 00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 1: these poor mom and dad, were both died within five 203 00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:17,080 Speaker 1: minutes of each other at the hospital. So that means 204 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:20,600 Speaker 1: that they were shot in a very critical area in 205 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 1: their bodies. Maybe they were hitting the head, maybe they 206 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:25,679 Speaker 1: were hitting the chest. And that gives us an idea 207 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 1: that if you're firing from a particular position, say right 208 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 1: outside their window. Remember he said I grabbed Joseph's arm, 209 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 1: He grabbed the dad's arm as he began to move away, 210 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 1: and he fired. So we have to think that he's 211 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 1: right outside his window and then he accidentally shoots the mama. 212 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 1: I find that very hard to believe. But what we 213 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:48,839 Speaker 1: can learn is the fact that he was very very 214 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:51,680 Speaker 1: close to these people when he fired, and so he's, oh, 215 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:57,640 Speaker 1: right there, right there. You seemingly, for some unknown reason inexplicable, 216 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:00,319 Speaker 1: Jessice Scott Morgan, you seem to be each taking the 217 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:03,880 Speaker 1: defendants word for what happened. Can we move back into 218 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:06,920 Speaker 1: your arena? Can you're not a lie detector? We don't 219 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:08,440 Speaker 1: know if he's song the stouth will Actually I can't 220 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:13,120 Speaker 1: tell he's lying. But let's talk about range of fire. 221 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:17,960 Speaker 1: How we know from GSR gunshot residue exactly how close 222 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 1: defendit was when he unloaded. Yeah, this is the point, Nancy, 223 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:24,640 Speaker 1: from the end of the weapon, which is called the 224 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:27,800 Speaker 1: end of the muzzle. That means where the projectile comes out, 225 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 1: it's going to spray out. It will literally spray out 226 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 1: gunshot residue. Okay, So we're talking about things like unburned 227 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:37,520 Speaker 1: powder and any other debris that's in the barrel in 228 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:41,320 Speaker 1: addition to the projectile, and it will literally tattoo onto 229 00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:46,200 Speaker 1: the body. And the closer the concentration of that debris 230 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 1: that's coming out of the end of that barrel, the 231 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:51,200 Speaker 1: higher the likelihood that the individual is close. So the 232 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 1: further we move away like a water hose, further we 233 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 1: move away, the broader that stream is going to be. 234 00:14:57,160 --> 00:15:00,680 Speaker 1: In this particular instance, it would not surprise me to 235 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:03,600 Speaker 1: find that the range of fire is probably within about 236 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 1: eighteen inches of Joseph's body. Sir, I bet you something else. 237 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:10,840 Speaker 1: I bet you with the husband who is maybe driving 238 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 1: the vehicle, his car, I bet you it's point blank 239 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 1: or enough to cause stipling, which means that the end 240 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:24,880 Speaker 1: of the muzzle, the circular end of the gun is 241 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:27,520 Speaker 1: so close to the skin, maybe even a contact wound 242 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:32,720 Speaker 1: that it looks like a tattoo mark of burning where 243 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 1: the gunshot residue the gunpowder comes out of the gun. Now, 244 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:41,480 Speaker 1: typically generally speaking, gunshot residue you can go about thirty 245 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:45,000 Speaker 1: six inches more or less. And as Joe Scott just 246 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:49,000 Speaker 1: told you, the more you have, the closer you are 247 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 1: to the gun itself. Like he said, a water hose 248 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:57,680 Speaker 1: you know. To you, Troy Slayton, you as a good 249 00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:04,240 Speaker 1: defense attorney can quash any almost any gunshot residue test 250 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:06,480 Speaker 1: in many different ways. I mean, think about the Robert 251 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:11,320 Speaker 1: Blake case. What is the defense argument to gunshot residue evidence. Well, 252 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:17,400 Speaker 1: in this case, it may be that there was problems 253 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:21,800 Speaker 1: with the forensic collection. I know Joseph Scott Morgan isn't 254 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:24,560 Speaker 1: going to like it when I say that. Occasionally the 255 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 1: people that are collecting evidence just don't do it the 256 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 1: right way and they may end up transferring gunshot residue 257 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:40,480 Speaker 1: when they're investigating the case themselves. And the technicians that 258 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:44,800 Speaker 1: are coming out and supposed to be collecting evidence are 259 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:50,120 Speaker 1: sometimes just doing stuff with simple things like paint brushes 260 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 1: and brown paper bags and don't properly preserve the evidence 261 00:16:56,320 --> 00:17:03,680 Speaker 1: with plastic overhand and with well, I mean, I knew 262 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:07,920 Speaker 1: that you would find a way to blame the crime 263 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:22,760 Speaker 1: scene text or the cops crime stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, 264 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:25,280 Speaker 1: we're talking about a mom and dad who go to 265 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 1: buy a used Toyota rap four. They show up, they 266 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:32,240 Speaker 1: found it on an app call let Go. It's like 267 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:36,400 Speaker 1: a modern day Craigslist. Five children that look to be 268 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:40,280 Speaker 1: as young as seven or eight years old. Mommy and 269 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:44,200 Speaker 1: daddy are gunned down. Why they didn't even know this guy, 270 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:48,359 Speaker 1: Kyrie Brown. Now we've been kicking around the forensic evidence 271 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:51,520 Speaker 1: at the scene, but I want you to hear what 272 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:56,159 Speaker 1: the defendant, Kyrie Brown actually said. Take a listen to 273 00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:59,359 Speaker 1: our friends at Fox thirty one. Denver Brown admitted to 274 00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 1: detectives that he stole a rav four, posted it for sale, 275 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:05,600 Speaker 1: and agreed to meet with Joseph Roland to sell him 276 00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:08,040 Speaker 1: the car, he told investigators. When he got to the 277 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:11,040 Speaker 1: meeting spot on August fourteenth, he told Roland he accidentally 278 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:14,159 Speaker 1: brought the wrong vehicle title and had Roland and his 279 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:17,200 Speaker 1: wife follow him across town. According to the arrest half A, 280 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 1: David Brown shared that he produced a nine millimeter handgun 281 00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:22,240 Speaker 1: in his right hand, which he pointed at Joseph and 282 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:25,640 Speaker 1: demanded the money. Brown said that Joseph then grabbed his arm, 283 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:29,200 Speaker 1: and he indicated that the victim's vehicle began moving. Brown 284 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:32,000 Speaker 1: advised he then made the decision to shoot Joseph and 285 00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:35,440 Speaker 1: indicated that during this time that he accidentally shot Jocelyn. 286 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:38,720 Speaker 1: He went on to tell investigators quote lava vehicle was 287 00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:41,560 Speaker 1: still moving, he reached across the victim and took money 288 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 1: that was sitting on the center console, which is approximately 289 00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:47,879 Speaker 1: three thousand dollars. After the homicide, Kyrie Brown stated that 290 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:50,920 Speaker 1: he purposely set fire to the stolen car by means 291 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:53,719 Speaker 1: of pouring gasoline over the seat and igniting it somewhere 292 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:57,000 Speaker 1: near Havana Street and East Colfax Avenue. And the victim's 293 00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:00,359 Speaker 1: seventeen year old stepdaughter told police that her dad was 294 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 1: in the business of flipping cars and she was actually 295 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:05,040 Speaker 1: supposed to be with her dad that night to help 296 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:07,879 Speaker 1: him drive the car home, but she drove her boyfriend 297 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:12,399 Speaker 1: home instead, so Jocelyn went instead. What a travesty. What 298 00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:16,640 Speaker 1: a series of events had ended up in a double homicide? 299 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:19,800 Speaker 1: Now hold on just a moment LEAVI page. We are 300 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:22,880 Speaker 1: hearing the defendant and all he has to say about 301 00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:26,080 Speaker 1: what happened that night. But not so fast. He didn't 302 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:28,680 Speaker 1: go to cops or take these people to the hospital. 303 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:33,600 Speaker 1: No cops had to find him. How did they find him? 304 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:38,000 Speaker 1: So investigators looked on the let go app and the 305 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:41,720 Speaker 1: account that he used. To wait a minute, they looked 306 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:46,840 Speaker 1: on the victim's phone. Yeah, then they found the let 307 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:51,400 Speaker 1: go app. Then what we're going to purchase a vehicle 308 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:56,040 Speaker 1: from Kyrie Brown? And they found that his account on 309 00:19:56,080 --> 00:20:01,240 Speaker 1: that app was deactivated after the shooting. But they found 310 00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 1: another account and it was trying to sell the same 311 00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:09,320 Speaker 1: type toyo to WRAP four that they were going to 312 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:13,280 Speaker 1: buy the couple that was killed. Okay, let me stop 313 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:17,880 Speaker 1: right there, Stop right there, stop stop very important, subtle 314 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 1: but critical detail, and I'll tell you why it's so important. 315 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:26,280 Speaker 1: He took down that listing immediately after he shot mister 316 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:30,080 Speaker 1: and miss Roland, leaving behind five children orphaned. Then he 317 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:34,800 Speaker 1: listed the RAV four, same car under a fake name. 318 00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:39,000 Speaker 1: You know what that's called Troy Slayton. Right, it's the 319 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 1: equivalent of flight. He knows he did something wrong. You 320 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:48,200 Speaker 1: started up our whole program today talking about not about 321 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:51,159 Speaker 1: the two dead victims, the mom and dad, their children 322 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:55,399 Speaker 1: raised his orphans now, but about how if it were you, 323 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:58,440 Speaker 1: you would use a mental defect because he's already given 324 00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:02,040 Speaker 1: a confession like what timber our insanity compulsion. I don't 325 00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:05,440 Speaker 1: know what your idea you'd cook up back in your 326 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:09,320 Speaker 1: back office, but you know what I imagine is witches 327 00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:12,399 Speaker 1: around a witches brew And you're right in there a 328 00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:16,400 Speaker 1: choice layton, double double, toil and trouble cooking up some 329 00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:21,119 Speaker 1: defense because right here, like flight, is in disha of guilt. 330 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:23,120 Speaker 1: I mean, why take off and leave if you haven't 331 00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:25,600 Speaker 1: done anything wrong? I mean when I pulled out of 332 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 1: the car line this morning I drop off at the school, 333 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:31,120 Speaker 1: I didn't take off at ninety mph because I hadn't 334 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:34,040 Speaker 1: done anything wrong, right, I just ease out of there. 335 00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:36,800 Speaker 1: So why did he assume a fake name and list 336 00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:42,600 Speaker 1: the same car idiot on let go? That's evidence of 337 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:46,040 Speaker 1: guilt that he knew what he did was wrong. That's true, 338 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:51,359 Speaker 1: that that could potentially be consciousness of guilt. Flight is 339 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:57,520 Speaker 1: consciousness of guilt. Those would be aggravating circumstances, and I 340 00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:00,119 Speaker 1: want to be looking at some of the mitigating circumstances. 341 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:03,359 Speaker 1: It sounds to me, can you just address this instead? 342 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:08,000 Speaker 1: If you're mitigating circumstances, he gave a full confession to 343 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:14,639 Speaker 1: the police. I want to know that matched up that 344 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:18,240 Speaker 1: he had. He's the one selling the car, He's the 345 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:20,800 Speaker 1: one taking the fake name. What you want me to 346 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:23,400 Speaker 1: give him a gold star because he confessed to what happened. 347 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:27,280 Speaker 1: I think that when somebody gives a statement against penal 348 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:30,919 Speaker 1: interest when they say that he when he says that 349 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:34,120 Speaker 1: he shot the father and he accidentally shot the mother, 350 00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:38,800 Speaker 1: I believe him because somebody's not gonna say something that 351 00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:44,639 Speaker 1: implicates themselves and then typically lie about creek without a 352 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:47,800 Speaker 1: paddle and you know what creek I'm talking about. Hey, hey, 353 00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:50,360 Speaker 1: let's look at the rest of the evidence. So too, 354 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:53,920 Speaker 1: doctor Angie Arnold, jose Gott Morgan, leave my page. Listen 355 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,680 Speaker 1: to this, Okay, correct me if I'm wrong to leave 356 00:22:56,720 --> 00:23:02,880 Speaker 1: I all right? So they the police have the dead bodies, 357 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:06,280 Speaker 1: they're sent for autopsy, and they don't know what happened. 358 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:12,120 Speaker 1: They get Joseph Rowland's cell phone, they find the let 359 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:16,440 Speaker 1: go up on there, they find the rap four. There's 360 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:20,280 Speaker 1: no longer an account listed to Kyrie Brown. They find 361 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:24,160 Speaker 1: the same RAP four under a fake name, and because 362 00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:29,159 Speaker 1: of the fake name, they use the mobile number that 363 00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 1: goes with Kyrie Brown and the new the RAP four. 364 00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:37,959 Speaker 1: They find the mobile phone number through the online goods 365 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:44,160 Speaker 1: website let Go the phone pinned towers near the mall, 366 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 1: the apartment complex where mister miss Rowland were gunned down dead, 367 00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:54,320 Speaker 1: and the location where the car was burned. What car 368 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:59,119 Speaker 1: was burned? LEVI page the Toyota Rap four. Could you 369 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:04,120 Speaker 1: tell me something? I'm looking at the devastated family. Oh 370 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:08,119 Speaker 1: my stars. The little boy is standing there in a 371 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:12,480 Speaker 1: full on suit with a vest and everything. They're at 372 00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:16,280 Speaker 1: the funeral and there is a white casket covered in 373 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:21,399 Speaker 1: white flowers. I'm assuming that's Jocelyn Rowland. And there is 374 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:27,159 Speaker 1: another casket covered by the American flag, and there is 375 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:32,879 Speaker 1: a military person, three of them, surrounding the casket. Was 376 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:37,080 Speaker 1: he a veteran? I believe that he was. Just to 377 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:40,359 Speaker 1: top it all off, Troy Laden, he kills a vet, 378 00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:45,800 Speaker 1: then to the just add insult to injury. Investigators trace 379 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:50,199 Speaker 1: the cell phone to its current location, pinging it and 380 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:57,359 Speaker 1: he gives Chase. He actually gives chase Joseph Scott Morgan. 381 00:24:57,400 --> 00:24:59,600 Speaker 1: I mean, what else can he do? He burns the 382 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:03,960 Speaker 1: RAF for, he uses a fake name, he gives chase, 383 00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:08,840 Speaker 1: he hides out. Well, he's not helping the police do anything. 384 00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:14,240 Speaker 1: He's trying to impede the investigation. No, he's a he's 385 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:16,520 Speaker 1: like a fly that's caught on you know, fly paper. 386 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,120 Speaker 1: You know, the more he kind of moves around and 387 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:23,199 Speaker 1: does these things to deceive, the more stuck he gets, 388 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 1: you know, And look, from forensic standpoint, all we have 389 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:28,440 Speaker 1: to do is, you know, just look at the arson 390 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:31,920 Speaker 1: he initiated with this stolen vehicle. You know, you put 391 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:35,320 Speaker 1: that gasoline in his hand, and that's used as an accelerant, 392 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:38,800 Speaker 1: which means to start the fire within that vehicle. Well, 393 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:41,640 Speaker 1: that gas that he utilized is going to have a 394 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:45,359 Speaker 1: very specific chemical signature that can be tied back to 395 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:47,600 Speaker 1: the gas can that he used. That's why we do 396 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:51,120 Speaker 1: arson investigation that puts it in his hand. And then 397 00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:53,800 Speaker 1: all the deception with the apps as well, and the 398 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:57,760 Speaker 1: pinging off the cell towers, all of these are specific 399 00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:00,720 Speaker 1: forensic I like to refer to them as tie They 400 00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:04,040 Speaker 1: go back to one central position and it turns out 401 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:07,359 Speaker 1: to be this guy. Take a listen to Our Cut 402 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:13,160 Speaker 1: three Katie Johnson Casey NCCBS in Denver, Eighteen year old 403 00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:16,359 Speaker 1: Kyrie Brown is now charged with murder, accused of killing 404 00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:18,679 Speaker 1: a couple who met him to buy a used car. 405 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:22,800 Speaker 1: Investigators say Brown admitted to stealing the twenty seventeen Toyota 406 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:25,080 Speaker 1: ROUT four and then posting it for sale on the 407 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:28,600 Speaker 1: let go app. Then met Joseph and Joslyn Rowland at 408 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:31,680 Speaker 1: the Southland's Mall. He told the couple he accidentally brought 409 00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:34,679 Speaker 1: the wrong vehicle title with him, asked them to follow 410 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:38,080 Speaker 1: him to an apartment. Investigators say that's where Brown admits 411 00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:40,680 Speaker 1: he pulled a gun, demanded money, and shot Joseph when 412 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:44,119 Speaker 1: he tried to drive off, then accidentally shot Joslyn. The 413 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:47,600 Speaker 1: couple leaves behind five children, and police say after the shooting, 414 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:50,000 Speaker 1: Brown posted the car for sale on the app again 415 00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:52,760 Speaker 1: under a different name. You know, it just keeps getting 416 00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:56,880 Speaker 1: worse and worse leavi page. The children are left without parents. 417 00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:01,119 Speaker 1: I understand that there is a fund is it to 418 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:03,640 Speaker 1: go fund me? What is it to help the children? 419 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:08,119 Speaker 1: They have no security, nothing, What's going to happen to them? So, Nancy, 420 00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:11,280 Speaker 1: this go fund me has actually raised over two hundred 421 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:15,480 Speaker 1: thousand dollars for the family one of the kids god 422 00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:28,199 Speaker 1: parents setting up the go fund me Crime Stories with 423 00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:33,760 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. Guys, we're talking about the murders of a 424 00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:39,240 Speaker 1: young mom and dad, leaving five children behind now raised 425 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 1: as orphans. Nothing can ever ever replace mom and dad ever. 426 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:51,480 Speaker 1: And you know that there's a go fund me and 427 00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:53,359 Speaker 1: the way I found it. I just went to go 428 00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:57,080 Speaker 1: fund me and put in the Rolands. You can go 429 00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:03,760 Speaker 1: to go fundme dot com slat the Roland Dash kids. 430 00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:08,880 Speaker 1: This is by far not the first time that someone 431 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:14,480 Speaker 1: has been murdered and more by answering an ad online. 432 00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:19,679 Speaker 1: It's so upsetting for innocent people like the Rolands to 433 00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:24,600 Speaker 1: be gunned down, leaving all these children without a mom 434 00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:28,399 Speaker 1: and dad. That's going to change their lives forever. The 435 00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:33,600 Speaker 1: wake of pain Kyrie Brown has left behind him in 436 00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:39,480 Speaker 1: his greed will never be known. Really, these children will 437 00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:43,080 Speaker 1: grow up with the shadow of murder hanging over them. 438 00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:46,640 Speaker 1: How will it change how they raise their children or 439 00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:51,120 Speaker 1: if they will even have children after this. There's so 440 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:56,080 Speaker 1: many ways to keep safe. Don't be a victim. Fighting 441 00:28:56,080 --> 00:29:01,480 Speaker 1: back against America's crime wave. Proceeds going to National Center 442 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:05,400 Speaker 1: for missing exploited children. Goes into how to Stay Safe 443 00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:11,400 Speaker 1: Online not to scare you, but to arm you with 444 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:16,960 Speaker 1: facts to keep you safe and your children safe. Jackie. 445 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:20,360 Speaker 1: This is by far not the first time someone has 446 00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:24,080 Speaker 1: died answering an online ad. Take a listen to our 447 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:29,760 Speaker 1: friends at w g XATV. But Runyan was a Vietnam 448 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:33,240 Speaker 1: veteran and on the Ford Mustang back in the nineteen sixteats. 449 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:36,200 Speaker 1: His daughters previously said that their dad wanted to have 450 00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:38,720 Speaker 1: a Mustang similar to the one that he had after 451 00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:41,960 Speaker 1: the war, and after seeing the car on Craigslist, the 452 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:45,640 Speaker 1: Runyans drove south in their suv to meet Runnietown's to 453 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,480 Speaker 1: buy it. When they didn't return to Marietta to baby, 454 00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:51,959 Speaker 1: said their grandchildren. The next day, family members knew something 455 00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:55,400 Speaker 1: was wrong. Crew searched what at areas and bodies of 456 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:58,920 Speaker 1: water nearby, even using a helicopter to search from the air. 457 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:01,760 Speaker 1: The Runnyans were later found near the suv, which was 458 00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:05,440 Speaker 1: underwater in a lake. They were laid to rest in Marietta. 459 00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:09,600 Speaker 1: Towns later turned himself in. Now in a legal twist, 460 00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:13,840 Speaker 1: the indictment in that case was dismissed. They've just been 461 00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:19,280 Speaker 1: handed down a new indictment. In that case, the Georgia 462 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:23,440 Speaker 1: Supreme Court reversed the indictment and it had to be 463 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:29,600 Speaker 1: completely redone take a listen to w g XA TV 464 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:33,840 Speaker 1: Telfare County Sheriff Chris Stevenson says the Runnions placed an 465 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:37,080 Speaker 1: ad on Craigslist looking for in nineteen sixty six Ford 466 00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:41,760 Speaker 1: Mustang convertible. Sheriff Stevenson tells us Ronnie Towns Junior responded 467 00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:43,800 Speaker 1: to the ad and lord the couple to tell Fair 468 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:48,400 Speaker 1: County Thursday. Earlier in the investigation, Deputy say Town's lide 469 00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:51,360 Speaker 1: to deputies about contacting the Runnions with a cell phone. 470 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:54,280 Speaker 1: He was being held on charges of theft by deception, 471 00:30:54,360 --> 00:31:01,520 Speaker 1: which were upgraded to robbery and murder Tuesday. We've made 472 00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:10,720 Speaker 1: a huge amount of progress. We continue to investigate. We 473 00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:15,080 Speaker 1: continue with all of our partner agencies that are involved 474 00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:18,360 Speaker 1: working arm in arm. Autopsy results show the Runnings were 475 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:21,000 Speaker 1: both shot in the head with a small caliber firearm. 476 00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:23,880 Speaker 1: Their bodies hidden near the lake where the Ruins vehicle 477 00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:28,040 Speaker 1: was submerged. All because as Vietnam War, a veteran who 478 00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:32,520 Speaker 1: owned Afford Mustang back in the sixties wanted a similar 479 00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:37,200 Speaker 1: car now that he could afford one. What we know 480 00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:41,440 Speaker 1: is the defendant in this case, Jaytowns, fired from his 481 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:45,800 Speaker 1: job at a tree removal service, desperate for money. Instead 482 00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:48,360 Speaker 1: of getting another job, buys a throwaways cell phone and 483 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:52,200 Speaker 1: began contacting people interested in buying cars and other things. 484 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:56,240 Speaker 1: And that is how he met up with his two victims. 485 00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:01,440 Speaker 1: You know, that's just the tip of the iceberg. What 486 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:04,920 Speaker 1: happened to the Runyon family? Take a listen to Nina 487 00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:09,760 Speaker 1: Harrelson w r EGTV. Twenty two year old Cameron Dillard 488 00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:13,400 Speaker 1: is charged with especially aggravated robbery after police say he 489 00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:16,520 Speaker 1: lured another man with a Facebook market place side for 490 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:20,840 Speaker 1: a car, but instead pistol whipped, robbed and shot him. 491 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:23,600 Speaker 1: I got a car like somebody had been shot in 492 00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:26,320 Speaker 1: front of my house, but I tried to pull up 493 00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:29,960 Speaker 1: on the street on the police head caution table. You 494 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:34,040 Speaker 1: can't get through it all unfolded Wednesday night, so we 495 00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:40,520 Speaker 1: could go on and on with victims killed, answering online ads. 496 00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:46,000 Speaker 1: You know to you, Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, understand 497 00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:49,719 Speaker 1: and I'm reading this verbatim. It's one of the hundreds 498 00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:52,160 Speaker 1: of tips, actually thousands of tips that are in the 499 00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:54,960 Speaker 1: new book, Don't be a victim. I understand that you 500 00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:57,640 Speaker 1: may be dealing with anyone from a little old lady 501 00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:01,520 Speaker 1: to a violent felon the internet. Is not vet who 502 00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:06,720 Speaker 1: buys and sells online now. Interesting in the running case 503 00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:11,160 Speaker 1: where the Vietnam vett was gunn dawn. In that case, 504 00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:15,680 Speaker 1: the guy with his throwaway cell phone was caught contacting 505 00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:20,240 Speaker 1: dozens and dozens of people to lure them to basically 506 00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:23,720 Speaker 1: steal whatever cash or car that they had. There may 507 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:26,520 Speaker 1: be other victims of that guy that we just don't 508 00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:28,120 Speaker 1: know about it, and they're as soon to be missing 509 00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:31,280 Speaker 1: right now. What do you advise? Yeah, you need to 510 00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:33,440 Speaker 1: be careful. You know. I think that in this world 511 00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:37,040 Speaker 1: that we live in, with the anonymity of the internet, 512 00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:40,240 Speaker 1: you know, of these apps that are out there, we 513 00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:42,760 Speaker 1: kind of drop our guard because we live you know, 514 00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:45,560 Speaker 1: everybody talks about how we live in this electronic bubble now, 515 00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:48,680 Speaker 1: and we do. And what folks don't understand is that 516 00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:52,040 Speaker 1: it is still a damned dangerous world outside of that bubble, 517 00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:55,440 Speaker 1: and maybe even more dangerous because people are more easily 518 00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:58,680 Speaker 1: it would seem at least victimized. So you have to 519 00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:01,680 Speaker 1: be careful, Nancy. You don't know who was on the 520 00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:04,800 Speaker 1: other end of that ad who was on the other 521 00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:08,840 Speaker 1: end of that line. And it's so widespread now. It 522 00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:10,880 Speaker 1: used to be, you know, you and I both are 523 00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:13,319 Speaker 1: from small towns in the South. It used to be 524 00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:18,080 Speaker 1: we knew our neighbors, okay. But now in this world 525 00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:20,000 Speaker 1: that we lived in, it so far flung you could 526 00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:23,480 Speaker 1: be talking to anybody. As a matter of fact, we 527 00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:26,880 Speaker 1: learned from the prosecutor in the GBI in the Running case, 528 00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:30,720 Speaker 1: the perp who, by the way, the bodies are found 529 00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:35,759 Speaker 1: not far from his parents three hundred acre farm. So 530 00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:41,080 Speaker 1: this guy was not uneducated, illiterate, had no hope of 531 00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:44,520 Speaker 1: going further in life. Desperate parents have a three hundred 532 00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:48,640 Speaker 1: acre farm. Long story short. He had been using the 533 00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:53,880 Speaker 1: same disposable cell phone to call other people looking for 534 00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:58,799 Speaker 1: antique cars and all sorts of items, and apparently he 535 00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:01,319 Speaker 1: had none of those items. He would just lure them 536 00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:04,799 Speaker 1: there and then kill them. For all we know, there 537 00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:08,200 Speaker 1: could be other victims out there that are now simply 538 00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:11,840 Speaker 1: reported as missing. To leave my page, I want to 539 00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:17,359 Speaker 1: circle back to Jocelyn and Joseph Rowland, whose family, their 540 00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:20,640 Speaker 1: five children now growing up as orphans. What more do 541 00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:23,400 Speaker 1: we know about the case. Where are the children? And 542 00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:27,480 Speaker 1: is Kyrie Brown facing the death penalty? We don't know 543 00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:30,600 Speaker 1: if Kyrie Brown is facing the death penalty, Nancy. But 544 00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:33,840 Speaker 1: just to tell you more about how he was captured. 545 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:37,120 Speaker 1: When they got his cell phone information and they used 546 00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:39,600 Speaker 1: it to track down his location. He was in the 547 00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:44,160 Speaker 1: passenger of another passenger seat of another vehicle and when 548 00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:47,799 Speaker 1: police went to approach the vehicle, it's sped off and 549 00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:51,320 Speaker 1: they were apprehended. But they tried to flee from police. 550 00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:54,520 Speaker 1: So that tells you something right there. They knew that 551 00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:57,120 Speaker 1: they were in trouble. Yeah, have fun with that at trial. 552 00:35:57,200 --> 00:35:59,960 Speaker 1: Troy Slayton, criminal defense attorney, joining me out of LA 553 00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:04,600 Speaker 1: if you have any information that could help the Roland family. 554 00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:11,000 Speaker 1: Seven two zero nine one three stop seven two zero 555 00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:18,640 Speaker 1: nine one three seven eight six seven, We wait as 556 00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:23,160 Speaker 1: justice unfolds. Nancy Grace crime story signing off, goodbye friend,