Speaker 1: Welcome to Haunted Road, a production of I Heart Radio
Speaker 1: and Grimm and Mild from Aaron Minky. Listener discretion is advised.
Speaker 1: Thomas Whaley seemed destined to be a historic figure in
Speaker 1: one way or another. His ancestors arrived from Northern Ireland
Speaker 1: in Plymouth, Massachusetts, in seventy two. They specialized in business,
Speaker 1: particularly gunsmith ing. His great grandfather played a role in
Speaker 1: both the Boston Tea Party and the Revolutionary War by
Speaker 1: arming soldiers and quartering General Washington for a time. Thomas
Speaker 1: was born in New York City on October five, eighty three.
Speaker 1: Before Thomas was ten years old, his father died. In
Speaker 1: his will, he stipulated that Thomas would have a robust education.
Speaker 1: He would attend boarding school, university, and post grad studies
Speaker 1: with a tutor in Europe. But another source has a
Speaker 1: different take, saying Thomas's mother, Rachel, noticed the aptitude her
Speaker 1: son showed for business, so she decided that he would
Speaker 1: be given the best possible education available at that time
Speaker 1: in order to one day managed the affairs of the family.
Speaker 1: In eighteen forty nine, Thomas joined the rush to California
Speaker 1: in pursuit of gold. As a business man, Thomas set
Speaker 1: up a shop in San Francisco where he sold goods
Speaker 1: to prospectors. At the time, he wrote to his mother,
Speaker 1: the circumstances under which I am going are indeed very favorable,
Speaker 1: and should I not succeed, the cause can only be
Speaker 1: attributed to myself. That certainly sounds like foreshadowing. In eighteen
Speaker 1: fifty one, an arsonist burned down his store. Little did
Speaker 1: Thomas know that this was just the beginning of a
Speaker 1: series of unfortunate tragedies and deaths that would befall mister
Speaker 1: Whaley and his family, events that many believe have culminated
Speaker 1: in a home so haunted. Employees have quit midshift, tourists
Speaker 1: have fled the property, and many refused to even set
Speaker 1: foot within its doors. So join me, as we had
Speaker 1: to sunny San Diego and into the corridors of the
Speaker 1: very dark Whaley House. I'm Amy Brunei, and welcome to
Speaker 1: Haunted Road. After Thomas's store was burned down, instead of
Speaker 1: rebuilding on location, he was advised to relocate his venture
Speaker 1: to San Diego, So Thomas Whaley relocated to what is
Speaker 1: now known as Old Town. Thomas really became involved in
Speaker 1: local affairs, like when San Diego was the site of
Speaker 1: a skirmish between the Native San Louis and the white
Speaker 1: settlers in the sheriff wanted to tax cattle belonging to
Speaker 1: the Native people, an idea they did not like. There
Speaker 1: was an altercation at a place called Warner's Ranch, and
Speaker 1: Chief Antonio Gara was sentenced to death. Thomas Whaley was
Speaker 1: one of twelve people on the firing squad that executed
Speaker 1: Garas sentence on January tenth, eighteen fifty two. On May fourteenth,
Speaker 1: eighteen fifty three, Thomas married Anna Louise de Launay in
Speaker 1: New York City's Church of the Ascension. Thomas had written
Speaker 1: his mother about Anna when he was first heading to
Speaker 1: California in eighteen forty nine. I may as well inform
Speaker 1: you that I have a particular regard for miss Anna. Indeed,
Speaker 1: I love her and intend on marrying her if I
Speaker 1: ever returned from California a rich man. The newly weds
Speaker 1: returned to San Diego, where Thomas engaged in a sequence
Speaker 1: of short term business partnerships, from operating a general store
Speaker 1: with his brother to owning a brickyard. Thomas and Anna's
Speaker 1: first two children were born before the family constructed the
Speaker 1: Whaley House Francis Hinton, who was born on December twenty eighth,
Speaker 1: eighteen fifty four, and Thomas Whalley Junior on August eighteenth,
Speaker 1: eighteen fifty six. The growing Whaley family stayed with friends
Speaker 1: or rented out rooms in the intram. In September of
Speaker 1: eighteen fifty five, Thomas purchased a lot from the city.
Speaker 1: The first structure completed on the property was a granary,
Speaker 1: which is now connected to the house and called the Courtroom.
Speaker 1: It's speculated that this very lot was the site of
Speaker 1: the eighteen fifty two hanging of James Yankee Jim Robinson,
Speaker 1: a man convicted of robbery and accused of horse theft
Speaker 1: and murder. The hanging also took place in September, albeit
Speaker 1: three years earlier. Thomas had actually witnessed the hanging of Robinson,
Speaker 1: but apparently had no reluctance about buying the land as
Speaker 1: an aside. Shortly after the Whaley family moved in, they
Speaker 1: told the San Diego Union that they heard heavy footsteps
Speaker 1: in the house, which they believed to be the ghost
Speaker 1: of Yankee Jim. Seems paranormal activity goes back quite a
Speaker 1: ways at the Whaley House, the house that Thomas Whaley
Speaker 1: had constructed and completed during the Panic of eighteen fifty seven,
Speaker 1: an economic depression felt around the world. The Greek Revival
Speaker 1: structure sits at two four seven six San Diego Avenue,
Speaker 1: again in Old Town. The first two story home of
Speaker 1: its kind, with its mahogany and rosewood furniture, damask drapes
Speaker 1: in Brussels carpets, was considered to be the finest new
Speaker 1: brick block in southern California. There was a seven foot
Speaker 1: high adobe wall circling the perimeter, and two gates within
Speaker 1: the structure provided access to the yard. There was a
Speaker 1: back corral useful for the team of horses for their carriage,
Speaker 1: and a brick outhouse. The bricks were made from Whaley's backyard,
Speaker 1: and the walls were finished with plaster made from ground seashells.
Speaker 1: Thomas allegedly said of the home, my new house, when completed,
Speaker 1: will be the handsomest, most comfortable, and convenient place in
Speaker 1: town or within one fifty miles of here. However, Thomas
Speaker 1: also showed financial interest in the expansion of the U.
Speaker 1: S railway system. It seems like he hoped the railway's
Speaker 1: arrival would give him an opportunity to make money on
Speaker 1: his landholdings, enough so that the family could return to
Speaker 1: New York. But Thomas wasn't the only family member to
Speaker 1: invest time and money into the property. The yard and
Speaker 1: flowers were Anna Whaley's delight, and the kitchen garden contained
Speaker 1: all manner of vegetables and herbs. Fruit trees were orange, cherry,
Speaker 1: fig and pomegranate. There were two cedar trees in the backyard,
Speaker 1: and Anna had planted the pepper tree on the side
Speaker 1: of the building herself. In addition to housing the Whaley family,
Speaker 1: the house functioned as the first courthouse for San Diego County,
Speaker 1: held the first commercial theater, and for a time acted
Speaker 1: as the Whaley and cross Wait General Store, all of
Speaker 1: which have been restored to the museum today. In the
Speaker 1: later months of eighteen fifty seven, Thomas first reopened the
Speaker 1: store in his new home, but shortly thereafter moved to
Speaker 1: a location closer to the central business district. Neither venture
Speaker 1: proved fruitful. Eighteen fifty eight was a bad year for
Speaker 1: Thomas Whaley and his family. First, eighteen month old Thomas Jr.
Speaker 1: Succumbed to scarlet fever on January eighteen fifty eight in
Speaker 1: the Whaley home. Some good news came, though, when daughter
Speaker 1: Anna Amelia was born on June twenty seventh, eighteen fifty eight,
Speaker 1: also in the home. Later that summer, Thomas's business was
Speaker 1: once again burned down, but this time the fire was
Speaker 1: started by rats with a penchant for chewing on matches.
Speaker 1: Liquor barrels were saved, but thousands of dollars were ruined.
Speaker 1: Thomas's other investments, like the brick yard and his home,
Speaker 1: brought in little to nothing. His business connections in San
Speaker 1: Diego had been soured by his dogged pursuits and the
Speaker 1: debts owed to him. After that year, especially with the
Speaker 1: loss of their son, the Waley family left San Diego
Speaker 1: for San Francisco. In San Francisco, Waley worked as a U. S.
Speaker 1: Army commissary store keeper nearly six years in though complaints
Speaker 1: about his performance made their way to Washington. Facing dishonorable discharge,
Speaker 1: Whaley resigned in February eighteen sixty five. During this period,
Speaker 1: Anna and Thomas also had three more children. George Hayes
Speaker 1: wrinkled bore November fifth, eighteen sixty Violet Eloise born October fourteenth,
Speaker 1: eighteen sixty two, and Karine Lillian born September fourth, eighteen
Speaker 1: sixty four. In the meantime, Thomas rented the San Diego
Speaker 1: home to numerous occupants. At some point while they were away, however,
Speaker 1: the home became infisted with rats. Rats seemed to be
Speaker 1: a real problem in this bit of history, so when
Speaker 1: lawyer and Justice of the Peace Augustus s Emsworth moved
Speaker 1: into the home in the summer of eighteen sixty to
Speaker 1: manage the interests Thomas left behind, he had some very
Speaker 1: unwelcome roommates. In eighteen sixty seven, Thomas Whaley assisted in
Speaker 1: the American takeover of Alaska, where he established stores at Sitcup,
Speaker 1: helped set up an American base, and served as councilman. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: Anna and the rest of the family stayed in San Francisco.
Speaker 1: In May of eighteen sixty eight, a major earthquake hit
Speaker 1: the region, and after this the Whaley family returned to
Speaker 1: their San Diego home. It wasn't in good shape. Clearly,
Speaker 1: Thomas all the necessary repairs, and daughter Lilian later recalled
Speaker 1: that the arch which stands between the two parlors was
Speaker 1: still in place. It is said that Yankee Jim, who
Speaker 1: had been arrested for stealing a boat, was hanged over
Speaker 1: that very spot. That spot today is still reported to
Speaker 1: be one of the most haunted spots in that building.
Speaker 1: That October never wanted to shy away from making a buck,
Speaker 1: Thomas Whaley rented out an upstairs bedroom to a traveling
Speaker 1: theater troope, the Tanner Troope, for the troops opening night performance.
Speaker 1: The small room accommodated a stage, a few benches, and
Speaker 1: an astonishing one hundred fifty guests. It was standing room only,
Speaker 1: and the ladies had been advised not to wear their
Speaker 1: hoop skirts or petticoats that evening to allow for more room.
Speaker 1: Thomas Tanner, the leader of the troop, died just seventeen
Speaker 1: days after opening. The troop was effectively disbanded by the
Speaker 1: end of January eighteen sixty nine. For a few years,
Speaker 1: the county rented some of the upstairs room for record storage. However,
Speaker 1: as the new town of San Diego was built up
Speaker 1: and became the hub, the records were removed during a
Speaker 1: raid in March of eighteen seventy one. After that abrupt departure,
Speaker 1: Thomas made more renovations. He joined the Granary to the house,
Speaker 1: changed the front facade of the home, and altered some
Speaker 1: windows and doors. The Panic of eighteen seventy three, another
Speaker 1: economic crisis that triggered a depression in Europe and North America,
Speaker 1: certainly unsettled Thomas, who was still awaiting the fortune he
Speaker 1: imagined was waiting for him in California. It was at
Speaker 1: this time he reached out to his mother for financial aid.
Speaker 1: Between eighteen seventy three and eighteen seventy five, Thomas left
Speaker 1: his family in San Diego and returned to New York,
Speaker 1: supposedly to settle his father's estate. His father had died
Speaker 1: in eighteen thirty two. The will was supposed to have
Speaker 1: been settled when the youngest of Thomas's siblings reached twenty
Speaker 1: years of age. That had come and gone, so Thomas
Speaker 1: went to New York to force his mother's hand in
Speaker 1: the matter. You received five thousand dollars over a hundred
Speaker 1: thousand dollars by today's standards, and put that towards his debts.
Speaker 1: After that time, Thomas returned to San Diego but wasn't
Speaker 1: able to find work. The Whaley family was dependent on
Speaker 1: their firstborn son, Francis. All of this took a toll
Speaker 1: on the family. Idleness, poverty, and despair affected Whaley's disposition.
Speaker 1: His wife and children complained of abuse. His son George's
Speaker 1: passion for violin and to shape a career as a musician.
Speaker 1: For the brunt of Thomas's frustrations, George left home, donned
Speaker 1: his mother's maiden name, and tried to find a niche
Speaker 1: for himself. Anna, Amelia, and her younger sister Violet married
Speaker 1: their bows in a double ceremony at the family home
Speaker 1: on January. Anna married her first cousin, Chaunty Whaley, and
Speaker 1: Violet married a man named George T. Bertelacchi. Violet and
Speaker 1: George's marriage proved unbearable. Two weeks into Violet's marriage, as
Speaker 1: the couple was traveling back east on their honeymoon, she
Speaker 1: awoke one morning to find her husband gone. Bertolacci, as
Speaker 1: it turned out, was a con artist, and, as Violet
Speaker 1: and her family later learned, had only married her for
Speaker 1: the substantial dowry he believed he would collect upon marriage.
Speaker 1: The humiliation and shame were profound as Violet bore the
Speaker 1: moral burden of her husband's choices. The couple divorced in
Speaker 1: eighteen sixty three, but violet suffering continued long after that.
Speaker 1: On Juve, Violet tried to drown herself in the family's cistern.
Speaker 1: It was this event that prompted a physician to keep
Speaker 1: an eye on her. After a period of great depression,
Speaker 1: monitored by this physician, Violet died by suicide on the
Speaker 1: morning of August eighteenth, eighty five. She shot herself in
Speaker 1: the heart with her father Smith and weston thirty two
Speaker 1: caliber pistol. He found her injured in the outhouse and
Speaker 1: brought her into the home. Violet died shortly afterward in
Speaker 1: the parlor. Thomas said, I don't think she lived longer
Speaker 1: than ten or fifteen minutes. She never spoke a word,
Speaker 1: never groaned. Violet had left a note as Stanza from
Speaker 1: the poem Bridge of Size by Thomas Hood, mad from
Speaker 1: life's history, swift to death's mystery, glad to be hurled anywhere, anywhere,
Speaker 1: out of this world. When asked by the corner why
Speaker 1: Violet had threatened to take her life, Lilian explained, I
Speaker 1: don't know why. I think she was tired of life,
Speaker 1: tired of living here, thought no one cared for her,
Speaker 1: and that her life was a burden. The coroner also
Speaker 1: asked if there had been any kind of fight or
Speaker 1: disagreement the night before, but Lilian painted a clear picture
Speaker 1: of the family's efforts and concerns. No, No one had
Speaker 1: words with her that night. Been a long time since
Speaker 1: we had any words or bad feelings with her. Did
Speaker 1: all we could to make it pleasant for her, or
Speaker 1: far from saying or doing anything unkind. Furthermore, Thomas added
Speaker 1: that Violet had shown no particular life or interest for
Speaker 1: some time. She was naturally of a lively nature and
Speaker 1: loved music very much, played the piano and guitar, and
Speaker 1: seemed to take more interest in such things. Lately we
Speaker 1: thought she was getting better. This dark chapter catalyzed Thomas
Speaker 1: to build the family a modest escape in the new
Speaker 1: Downtown on State Street in November of eighteen eighty five.
Speaker 1: Thomas maintained a real estate business until his retirement in
Speaker 1: eighteen eighty eight, a decision spurred by his failing health.
Speaker 1: He died two years later, on December fourteenth, eighteen ninety,
Speaker 1: in the family's downtown home. Meanwhile, the original Whaley House
Speaker 1: was neglected. Francis Whaley, eldest son and Sureley saddled with
Speaker 1: much family responsibility, resolved to restore the home. His mother Anna,
Speaker 1: sister Lillian, and brother George all lived in the home together.
Speaker 1: Francis utilized the family home as a residence and tourist attraction,
Speaker 1: where posted signs outside promoted its historical nature, and then
Speaker 1: he would entertain visitors with his guitar. Daughter Anna Amelia,
Speaker 1: died in Modesto, California, on December eighteenth, nineteen o five. Anna,
Speaker 1: the Whaley matriarch, died in the home on February nineteen thirteen.
Speaker 1: Eldest son Francis, died in the home on November nineteenth,
Speaker 1: nineteen fourteen, and violinist George Whaley died January fifth, nineteen.
Speaker 1: He was residing in the home at the time, but
Speaker 1: we can't find any record that he died in the home.
Speaker 1: Lillian maintained her place in the home until her own
Speaker 1: death in nineteen fifty three at a nearby nursing home.
Speaker 1: At that point, she had been the sole caretaker for
Speaker 1: nearly half a century, so it had fallen into a
Speaker 1: terrible state of disrepair, but even in ruin it was beautiful.
Speaker 1: Supporters of the home raised money to restore the home
Speaker 1: and preserve the story it tells of early San Diego
Speaker 1: life generally and the Whaley family specifically. It was registered
Speaker 1: as a Historic landmark in nineteen thirty two and was
Speaker 1: dedicated as a Historic House Museum in nineteen six d. Clearly,
Speaker 1: paranormal claims within the Whaley House have run rampant over
Speaker 1: the years. It is easily one of the most notable
Speaker 1: haunted homes on the West Coast. Workers and visitors claimed
Speaker 1: to hear strange, unexplained sounds, sites, and even smells. Many
Speaker 1: feel a powerful presence whenever inside the residence. Another common
Speaker 1: report is loud footsteps stopping on the floor. Reports also
Speaker 1: point to the sound of a child crying and giggling.
Speaker 1: A young woman, many believed to be Violet, has been
Speaker 1: reported on numerous occasions on the second floor of the house.
Speaker 1: Cold spots are frequent throughout the mansion, also believed to
Speaker 1: be Violet's doing. The stairwells within the residents have been
Speaker 1: mentioned by many to be the wandering area for Thomas,
Speaker 1: Anna and other spirits. Thomas is often seen sporting his
Speaker 1: trademark top hat and coat while looking down from the
Speaker 1: top of the stairs. Some people have detected the scent
Speaker 1: of French perfume permeating the home, a favorite of Anna's
Speaker 1: that she often wore. On top of all this, physical
Speaker 1: objects are often manipulated on their own, such as the
Speaker 1: music rooms chandelier, which will swing back and forth at
Speaker 1: will when no wind is present. Lights will turn off
Speaker 1: and on without explanation. So up next, we're going to
Speaker 1: talk with Judy Maha Davon. She is a former tour
Speaker 1: guide and docent from the Whaley House, and she's going
Speaker 1: to fill us in on what you can expect if
Speaker 1: you plan a visit there. Also, I haven't mentioned this,
Speaker 1: but this is one of the few places we've covered
Speaker 1: on Haunted Road that I've never been. So you and
Speaker 1: I are in this together, and I'm very excited to
Speaker 1: hear what Shooty has to share with us. So I
Speaker 1: am sitting here with Judy Maha Davon, who is a
Speaker 1: former tour guide and docent from the Whaley House, and
Speaker 1: she's had a lot of experiences. She spent a lot
Speaker 1: of time there. She's got a lot of thoughts and
Speaker 1: theories on what's happening at the house. She was referred
Speaker 1: to me by a number of people who told me
Speaker 1: she was the person to talk to about the Whaley House.
Speaker 1: So welcome to the program. Thank you, Thank you so
Speaker 1: much for having me. Like so many of the guests
Speaker 1: that we have, we had a number of technical issues
Speaker 1: trying to get Chudy on the show, and I feel
Speaker 1: like this is just like the byproduct of trying to
Speaker 1: do a haunted podcast. Um, so, can you just kind
Speaker 1: of let us know, like, what is it that you
Speaker 1: did with the house and how long did you spend there? Yeah?
Speaker 1: So I was there for about a year. I was
Speaker 1: a docent there and I gave tours to guests and
Speaker 1: that was just kind of cut short because of COVID,
Speaker 1: right exactly. Yeah, Yeah, that's a huge bummer. I mean,
Speaker 1: and now it sounds like they've reopened, but you've already
Speaker 1: taken a job working on another haunted location, the USS Midway.
Speaker 1: It seems like no where I work, it's always just fun.
Speaker 1: I have that problem too. I don't know, it's really strange.
Speaker 1: I mean, in a year, it sounds like you gathered
Speaker 1: a lot of experiences at the house itself. What attracted
Speaker 1: you to working there? Did you go there knowing that
Speaker 1: it was haunted or was there any other reason why
Speaker 1: you ended up there? Actually yeah. So the first time
Speaker 1: that actually went there, I was in fifth grade, and
Speaker 1: I remember I was like so scared, because you know,
Speaker 1: when you're a kid, you know, you hear like the
Speaker 1: houses were going to a haunted house, Wally House, and
Speaker 1: I was like, oh no, but I just fell in
Speaker 1: love with it. Have you always lived in San Diego then, yeah,
Speaker 1: born race, So you basically have had that house in
Speaker 1: your backyard this whole time pretty much? Yea, and so,
Speaker 1: and that was your bulldog in the background, right, that's
Speaker 1: not a ghost here him just a little bit. But
Speaker 1: I just wanted to verify. Every time there's a strange
Speaker 1: noise while doing this podcast, I get a million comments
Speaker 1: on Twitter and Facebook and people want to know what
Speaker 1: it was. So just for clarification, do you hear strange
Speaker 1: growling and the background and shooties and it's her adorable dog.
Speaker 1: But we also did have spirits in the house that
Speaker 1: had We had little four legged ones too, so not
Speaker 1: only humans, we had pets. So I heard that about
Speaker 1: the house. So let's skip ahead to that. Because I'm curious.
Speaker 1: People ask me about animal ghosts all the time, and
Speaker 1: so I had heard that there was at least a
Speaker 1: ghost of one dog in the house. What kind of
Speaker 1: experiences were people having with that? So people would come
Speaker 1: in the house, especially children, you know, like now more
Speaker 1: animals are more open to seeing things. They So I've
Speaker 1: had kids come in the house and they're like, oh,
Speaker 1: there's a doggie. There's a little doggie, And I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: what color is it? Because we have three animals that
Speaker 1: people have been seeing. Um, there's Dolly. She was a
Speaker 1: little white fox terrier. She's probably the most like people
Speaker 1: have gotten pictures of her. She likes to hang out
Speaker 1: underneath the dining room. Team, so we have people come in,
Speaker 1: always tell them, you know, make sure it take pictures
Speaker 1: underneath the dinner table because you might see. So we
Speaker 1: have a little white fox terrier. Um, there's a little pug.
Speaker 1: People of her like respiratory like breathing, like like your
Speaker 1: dog is doing right now. Yeah, and his name Chubby.
Speaker 1: It's a little pug. And then there's also a little
Speaker 1: black cat named Winks. Oh okay, And now all of
Speaker 1: these animals. Are these animals that you guys have documented
Speaker 1: actually spent time there over the years, or are these
Speaker 1: names that you've given these ghosts They were actually named
Speaker 1: by the whalies. Okay, so these are actual animals that
Speaker 1: the Whales had in the house. Yes, going through the
Speaker 1: history of the Whaley House, it's very tragic, like they're
Speaker 1: just a number of tragedies and just kind of back
Speaker 1: and forth that went on with that family and Thomas
Speaker 1: Whaley in particular. Do you think that's why the house
Speaker 1: is so haunted. I believe so. I believe it's one
Speaker 1: of the most haunted places in America because even before
Speaker 1: the house was built, like he built it himself. That
Speaker 1: is actually where the gallows stood, right, And so I
Speaker 1: know that he supposedly even witnessed a man being hanged
Speaker 1: there before he even bought the property, So he knew
Speaker 1: about its history and even thought the house was haunted
Speaker 1: after he built it. Yeah. So even the family themselves,
Speaker 1: the Whalies, even said the house was haunted. They experienced
Speaker 1: footsteps which we still here to this day. Even their
Speaker 1: daughter Violet, who committed suicide in the backyard, they could
Speaker 1: feel her presence in the house. A lot of people
Speaker 1: feel sadness, depression, anxiety, right, Yeah, I mean her death
Speaker 1: was especially tragic because you know, the family really they
Speaker 1: knew that she was contemplating suicide at that point, and
Speaker 1: they had tried to stop her, and it sounds like
Speaker 1: she really really went out of her way to kind
Speaker 1: hide it from them and see it through. And I
Speaker 1: can't imagine just how they felt at that point. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that poor feeling. They went through so many tragedies, like
Speaker 1: they lost Thomas Jr. When he was only eighteen months
Speaker 1: from scarlet fever. He passed with his mom's arms, and
Speaker 1: then Violet. It's just so I think it just has
Speaker 1: to maybe like the residual energy. And yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: I think so for sure. I mean I just when
Speaker 1: you go through everything they went through, it just makes
Speaker 1: perfect sense how that house could become haunted. Now, let's
Speaker 1: talk about experiences people have had their Like, what was
Speaker 1: your first experience in the home. So my first experience
Speaker 1: this was probably my second week there, and I was
Speaker 1: upstairs the San Diego's first commercial stairs. It's probably one
Speaker 1: of my favorite rooms. I was sitting in the chair
Speaker 1: and I was giving a little tour to a group
Speaker 1: of people and my chair really just started like shaking,
Speaker 1: like someone was right behind me, just like shaking it.
Speaker 1: I didn't I didn't get up. I just sat there
Speaker 1: and I was like okay, and the curator who was
Speaker 1: in the same room, and he's like, welcome to the
Speaker 1: Whale House. First experience. I'm just more sensitive than others.
Speaker 1: Everybody that has worked there, they have had experiences. Sometimes
Speaker 1: they're just nervous, right, that makes sense. So you said
Speaker 1: the curator at that point was like, welcome to the
Speaker 1: Whaley House. And so, I mean, I feel like so
Speaker 1: many employees there must have had experiences over the years,
Speaker 1: maybe even unwittingly. Have you heard of anyone like quitting
Speaker 1: their job because of what happened to them there? Oh? Yeah,
Speaker 1: especially volunteers too, especially the nonbelievers. There's one volunteer he's like,
Speaker 1: I don't believe any of this crap, blah blah blah
Speaker 1: bla blah, Like okay, you know, everybody has their own beliefs.
Speaker 1: And then he saw something super crazy. I didn't see it.
Speaker 1: I'm glad I didn't see it. I don't want to
Speaker 1: see it, and I never want to see what He
Speaker 1: explained to me, like he just looked freaked out, and
Speaker 1: I was like, what happened? Are you okay? He's like no,
Speaker 1: How's like tell you what happened? So in the courtroom,
Speaker 1: that's probably my least favorite room. I'll tell you my
Speaker 1: experience in there, because I disavoid that room. Well, he
Speaker 1: saw it was at night, and he said, it looks
Speaker 1: like a small, small child and it just looked like
Speaker 1: I had like a broken leg and it was like
Speaker 1: something sliding across the floor. And then he never came back.
Speaker 1: I mean, that would be so tragic to see something
Speaker 1: like that. That's one of the weirdest things about the
Speaker 1: Whale House to me is all these strange incarnations of
Speaker 1: what it was. It was a general story, it was
Speaker 1: a courthouse, it was a theater upstairs. Like it just
Speaker 1: seemed like Thomas Whaley was always trying to find a
Speaker 1: way to use the house to make an income. And
Speaker 1: so what happened to you in the courthouse exactly? So
Speaker 1: this is probably one of the strangest experiences I've ever had.
Speaker 1: So I went into the courtroom on the left hand side.
Speaker 1: I probably just walked in there just at the wrong time.
Speaker 1: There's I just felt this energy just literally go right
Speaker 1: through me and I almost passed out, like lightheaded, dizzy.
Speaker 1: I got a little nauseous, and I was like, I
Speaker 1: gotta stick outside for a minute. I gotta get some
Speaker 1: fresh air. Yeah. So so do you think like when
Speaker 1: that kind of thing happens, do you think that you're
Speaker 1: having like almost like a panicked reaction to this energy
Speaker 1: that you're feeling, or do you think that this whatever
Speaker 1: it is is actually like physically making you ill. I
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's trying to make me ill.
Speaker 1: I think they know that I'm not scared of them,
Speaker 1: I think. Because this might sound crazy, well just some
Speaker 1: people that I'm sure you understand, Like when I go
Speaker 1: into the house, I would say good morning to them,
Speaker 1: like I had. This sounds weird, but I kind of
Speaker 1: had like a little relationship with the spirits there because
Speaker 1: I would communicate with them, like talk to them out loud.
Speaker 1: But I don't know if it made me ill or
Speaker 1: if it was trying to get my attention, or it
Speaker 1: just and just went right through me right exactly. I mean,
Speaker 1: it sounds like a lot of the experiences that people
Speaker 1: have there are I mean, obviously people have a lot
Speaker 1: of like kind of benign type experiences where they see
Speaker 1: something or they hear something, but there are these kind
Speaker 1: of more powerful, almost physical experiences that people have. In
Speaker 1: my experience, when that happens, it's usually someone who's really
Speaker 1: trying to get a person's attention or really trying to
Speaker 1: get some sort of message across. Do you feel like
Speaker 1: these spirits at the house are unsettled in any way,
Speaker 1: or that there's something that they need accomplished still in
Speaker 1: their world? I think so, especially one of the men
Speaker 1: that was executed there, or I mean, we don't know
Speaker 1: how many hangings happened on that property, and there could
Speaker 1: have been a lot more deaths on the property that
Speaker 1: we don't know that weren't documented or written down in
Speaker 1: their diaries, right right, I think I covered at least
Speaker 1: five or six in the history, but it does sound
Speaker 1: like there could have been more. For sure. There is
Speaker 1: one that was brought up. I don't know if you
Speaker 1: have any other information on this, but there was supposedly
Speaker 1: a little girl who potentially had passed away on the property.
Speaker 1: It was like an accident, but I wasn't able to
Speaker 1: verify that, so someone made up that story. They said
Speaker 1: that she died in the backyard from like a clothes
Speaker 1: line and none that just spread like wildfire. Okay, that's
Speaker 1: what I thought, and that's what we found as well.
Speaker 1: You know, I always want to ask because maybe some
Speaker 1: new information came to light since we researched this. I
Speaker 1: feel like you don't need to start rumors about the
Speaker 1: way the house. I feel like there's plenty of tragedy
Speaker 1: to go around. You don't need to make up anymore. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's enough going on in that house exactly. Okay, So, now,
Speaker 1: what kind of experience is like if you're just a
Speaker 1: visitor and you're going to the Wayley House to visit,
Speaker 1: what kind of experiences do you think people could expect
Speaker 1: to have. So a lot of people they would come
Speaker 1: to me, they're like, I feel super sad, I feel depressed.
Speaker 1: I've had people just break down and cry. Right upstairs
Speaker 1: is extremely heavy for me. And I believe Violet was
Speaker 1: on suicide Watch upstairs right and their sun pass away
Speaker 1: upstairs as well. So I mean, that's just like a
Speaker 1: daytime moment, like you can just walk through and you
Speaker 1: can feel it. Now, you talked about what happened to
Speaker 1: you in the courthouse. What other experiences of note have
Speaker 1: you had or other people had that you think are
Speaker 1: extra powerful. This is an experience I haven't really shared
Speaker 1: with a lot of people because it did startle me
Speaker 1: a little bit. So I was giving a tour downstairs.
Speaker 1: We were standing right between the study in the parlor,
Speaker 1: right where the archway is. We're approximately where the gallows did.
Speaker 1: Thomas really felt that we don't know why. Only he
Speaker 1: could tell us why. So I was standing there talking
Speaker 1: and I guess said, you have a red it looks
Speaker 1: like rope fibers around your neck, like you have scratch
Speaker 1: around the neck. And I was like what. And then
Speaker 1: I looked in the mirror and it looked like rope
Speaker 1: fibers around my neck and I was like, oh my god.
Speaker 1: And then I had step outside for a minute after
Speaker 1: giving that little tour. My boss was like, oh my gosh, like,
Speaker 1: we haven't seen that such a long time. It doesn't
Speaker 1: happen a lot. Oh, so this is something that has
Speaker 1: happened to people before, and unbeknownst to you, I'm assuming
Speaker 1: at that time until your old boss let you know. Yes,
Speaker 1: and people are like, oh my god, why are you
Speaker 1: still working here? And I was like, I think they're
Speaker 1: just trying to get my attention. I'm like, okay, you
Speaker 1: have my attention. How many people were like how can
Speaker 1: you possibly work there? Oh? Tons of people ask me
Speaker 1: like why do you work here? Why do you like it?
Speaker 1: It's just like I'm like, I guess I'm just weird,
Speaker 1: Like I just like not weird. But um, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure that there are plenty of people
Speaker 1: who work there who don't really care about the ghost aspect.
Speaker 1: They're just there for historic purposes. But you know, I
Speaker 1: think there are some people that it just takes. It
Speaker 1: takes a special kind of person who's almost there for
Speaker 1: the ghosts, but in kind of like a compassionate way
Speaker 1: or just kind of a you know, you want to
Speaker 1: make sure that their story is being told or they're
Speaker 1: being treated respectfully. Like I start feeling almost protective of
Speaker 1: ghosts in particularly historic places. And like you said, you
Speaker 1: go in and you say good morning, and you say
Speaker 1: hello to them and things, and like do you think
Speaker 1: that's kind of just part of your personality. I think so, Yeah.
Speaker 1: And I just have like this unique on with the
Speaker 1: house and the spirits there, even like on their anniversaries
Speaker 1: like Wenny anniversary or their birthday, Uh, bring like flowers
Speaker 1: or cupcakes or something, just to just something for them,
Speaker 1: and then for the coworkers as well. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: and I think that's important to kind of keep recognizing
Speaker 1: those moments to them, and you know, it lets them
Speaker 1: know that you care. And I think it also kind
Speaker 1: of forms like almost a friendship or a bond with
Speaker 1: them and full disclosure for people listening, like this is
Speaker 1: one of the rare episodes of Haunted Road where I've
Speaker 1: not investigated the Whale House. I have been to San
Speaker 1: Diego many times, and the one time I was like,
Speaker 1: I'm going to go toward the Whale House, I showed
Speaker 1: up and they were doing some sort of renovation and
Speaker 1: I was unable to go inside. So I was able
Speaker 1: to see it, but I wasn't able to visit. And
Speaker 1: It's on my bucket list, And so I'm kind of
Speaker 1: living vicariously through you and your experience is right now
Speaker 1: because it is just it's an unusual situation, especially because I,
Speaker 1: you know, lived in California almost my entire life. How
Speaker 1: did I not ever set foot in that house? So
Speaker 1: I feel like it's destiny that I'm supposed to go
Speaker 1: there at a certain point, you know, like there's gonna
Speaker 1: be like the perfect reason for me to go there.
Speaker 1: Maybe we'll go there with Kindred or something. But I
Speaker 1: do feel like just reading through the history and everything
Speaker 1: that has gone on there that there has to be
Speaker 1: some sort of unresolved issues happening. And I'm just so curious.
Speaker 1: Have you gotten any signs or is anybody investigated and
Speaker 1: got any e v p s or anything to kind
Speaker 1: of clue you in on what they might want or need.
Speaker 1: We have gotten e v P s. I feel like
Speaker 1: there's so many there's so many spirits in that house
Speaker 1: other than the whales. Yeah, I mean it sounds like
Speaker 1: a lot of the executions that took place there might
Speaker 1: have a lot to do with it too. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: was upstairs. I almost got pushed down the steps. I
Speaker 1: felt hand on my back, so I don't know if
Speaker 1: that was one of the gentlemen that was executed there,
Speaker 1: and he was just like and then I literally said
Speaker 1: out loud, that's not okay, do not push me. That's
Speaker 1: definitely not okay. Yeah, I'm like, no, I don't want
Speaker 1: to go down the stairs. You don't want to become
Speaker 1: a spirit at the way the house. So, I mean,
Speaker 1: kind of along those lines, do you feel like any
Speaker 1: of the activity there is dangerous? Um, it's a possibility.
Speaker 1: Like a lot of people are like, that's scary that
Speaker 1: you almost got pushed down the steps, you got repe
Speaker 1: fiber on your neck, and you still worked there, Like, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: I do. I just love that house. Yeah yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean that does sound kind of aggressive, I mean, and
Speaker 1: um a little bit. Yeah. And you know, obviously we
Speaker 1: were talking before we started recording about like Dave Trader's
Speaker 1: experience there when they were filming Holser files, and you know,
Speaker 1: he literally got like pushed or shoved, and so it
Speaker 1: just makes you wondering. And again, it's around that area
Speaker 1: where the gallows supposedly stood. And I find it interesting too.
Speaker 1: You know that Thomas Whalley literally watched, you know, someone
Speaker 1: be hanged on that property and then went ahead and
Speaker 1: just decided to build a house there anyway. I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm sure a lot of people would, but you know,
Speaker 1: he knew full well. The house actually kind of fell
Speaker 1: into disrepair a few times before it was you know,
Speaker 1: it kept being kind of resurrected and brought back to life.
Speaker 1: Why do you think people have this fascination with the
Speaker 1: Whaley family, Like, why do you think that this is
Speaker 1: such an important historical site? I think because it's it
Speaker 1: was the first brick mansion built in San Diego at
Speaker 1: that time. People are just fascinated by the history of
Speaker 1: the family and paranormal phenomena that happens there. And people
Speaker 1: wanna see the house, come in here, their stories here
Speaker 1: about their lives, and they really want to experience and
Speaker 1: see things. Yeah. Yeah, it usually happens when you least
Speaker 1: expected to. Yeah. Do you guys have like regular paranormal
Speaker 1: investigations or ghost tours or is it just open for
Speaker 1: daytime tours. It's usually open for daytime tours, okay, And
Speaker 1: so people don't really investigate that much there, do they?
Speaker 1: Or not that much? No? Okay. Now, is there anything
Speaker 1: in particular that raises the activity level that you've you've noticed?
Speaker 1: Is there anything people do or anything that happens that
Speaker 1: causes activity to spike? M hm. So if you like
Speaker 1: provoke them, or let's say people come to the house
Speaker 1: and they're rowdy or being a little disrespectful the walies,
Speaker 1: they will set the fire alarms off and then yeah,
Speaker 1: and then everybody's escorted out. So the way it's like, Okay,
Speaker 1: you're being disrespected on our house, you know, Okay, time
Speaker 1: to go, time to leave. I love that they figured
Speaker 1: that out there, Like, oh, if we do this thing,
Speaker 1: this will make everyone leave immediately. That is wild. I'm
Speaker 1: actually surprised more ghosts haven't caught onto that, right, And
Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't call them. I want that want
Speaker 1: someone coming in my house being disrespectful? Well, no, of course,
Speaker 1: And like you know, I always wonder, like what is
Speaker 1: the by product that ultimately when you go into a
Speaker 1: home and you just keep talking about the bad things
Speaker 1: that happened over and over again. I always try to
Speaker 1: stress that in some of these historic locations to myself
Speaker 1: that I have to tell myself, like, don't define this
Speaker 1: place by the bad things that happened. That's not fair
Speaker 1: to the people who were here before that. Yes, bad
Speaker 1: things happened, but there are also probably plenty of very
Speaker 1: very good things too, you know, holidays and gatherings and
Speaker 1: weddings and births and like all these wonderful things. And
Speaker 1: we try to talk about that when we investigate, too,
Speaker 1: and it gets a lot of responses, and so I wonder,
Speaker 1: you know, sometimes you have these locations where people come
Speaker 1: in and they just keep talking about the bad stuff
Speaker 1: that happened, and I could see them getting kind of
Speaker 1: riled up by that. Oh yeah, yeah, They'll be like,
Speaker 1: come on, go shure yourself or you know. I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: you know, and I'm very protective of that house and
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, you need turn it down a little notch.
Speaker 1: They're not going to be happy. Yeah. Yeah, And I
Speaker 1: think that's one of the things we really strive for.
Speaker 1: I'm sure you understand where you kind of have to
Speaker 1: remind people that goes we're people too in theory, and
Speaker 1: they're not, you know, here to perform for you and
Speaker 1: do tricks like you know that there's probably a very
Speaker 1: real reason that they're still here and you could find
Speaker 1: yourself in their shoes one day, So maybe be a
Speaker 1: little more respectful, you know. So now I know that
Speaker 1: you're you're not at the Whale House any longer. But
Speaker 1: if people do want to visit, what do they need
Speaker 1: to do. It's back open for tours now, right, Yes,
Speaker 1: So old Town Trolley Tours has the house now they're
Speaker 1: running it. Yeah. Oh great, So they just need to
Speaker 1: go to Old Town Trolley Tours and connect with them
Speaker 1: and they can take a tour of the house, I believe, so, yes, yeah, okay, perfect,
Speaker 1: And in the meantime, people will can find you on
Speaker 1: the USS Midway. Okay. So it sounds like I'll need
Speaker 1: to do an episode on the Midway and we'll talk
Speaker 1: about that. Now that's a place I have visited and
Speaker 1: it is really cool. So yeah, good choices, good choices
Speaker 1: you're making so well, you know what, Shooty, thank you
Speaker 1: so much for relaying your experiences. I appreciate it. I
Speaker 1: find the Whaley House to be super fascinating. I think
Speaker 1: a big part of that is because I have not
Speaker 1: really been able to go in there yet, and so
Speaker 1: I'm so curious. You're lucky to be able to do
Speaker 1: what you did for so long, and it makes me
Speaker 1: happy that you're still really you know, speaking up for
Speaker 1: the house. Oh yeah, that house. It'll always have a
Speaker 1: special place to me, like in my heart. So I'll
Speaker 1: probably be back there one day. Oh great, Well, thank
Speaker 1: you so much, Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1: The Whaley House is now officially calling to me. All
Speaker 1: this history, lore and reports of paranormal activity has my
Speaker 1: interest intensely paked. Having spent most of my life in California,
Speaker 1: it's wild to me that I never investigated at the
Speaker 1: Whaley House. But maybe fate had other plans. Maybe I
Speaker 1: just wasn't ready. So please, if you do happen to visit,
Speaker 1: reach out to me on social media and let me
Speaker 1: know how it went. If you get a whiff of
Speaker 1: French perfume or see a fleeting vision of Violet, I
Speaker 1: wouldn't be surprised one bit. I'm Amy Bruney and this
Speaker 1: was Haunted Road. Haunted Road is a production of I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio and Grimm and Mild from Aaron Mankey. The
Speaker 1: podcast is written and hosted by Amy Bruney. Executive producers
Speaker 1: include Aaron Manky, Alex Williams, and Matt Frederick. The show
Speaker 1: is produced by rima Ill Kali and Trevor Young. Taylor
Speaker 1: Haggerdorn is the show's researcher. For more podcasts from I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. M