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Speaker 1: The Book of Joe Podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey Aaron, welcome back to.

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Speaker 3: The Book of Joe Podcast with me, Tom Berducci, and

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Speaker 3: of course Joe Madden.

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Speaker 2: Joe, how you doing this week?

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Speaker 4: I'm doing well, brother. It's busy week coming up right now,

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Speaker 4: starting today with Ken, and tomorrow take off for Chicago.

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Speaker 4: I have the Cup Convention going on Thursday, Friday, Saturday,

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Speaker 4: and Thursday. They're having a little gathering of the twenty

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Speaker 4: sixteen team in the locker room at Wrigley. That's how

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Speaker 4: it begins tomorrow, right, that's Thursday, and then Friday's the

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Speaker 4: Cub Convention intros and then might just have a nice

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Speaker 4: day in Chicago on Saturday.

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Speaker 2: But busy week, Oh that's going to be so cool.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I've been there obviously for the Cubs convention,

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Speaker 3: but this one's extra special ten year anniversary.

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Speaker 4: It is, I mean, I have I mean, it's all

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Speaker 4: he's crazy, Ken, you have never seen one of these,

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Speaker 4: I don't think. And it's two hotels worth of full

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Speaker 4: of Cubs fans. I mean, the the comp when you

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Speaker 4: have like the intros and everything was like three thousand

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Speaker 4: people in a ballroom's kind of a thing. It's nuts

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Speaker 4: and everywhere you walk around, it's everybody's there. The cup

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Speaker 4: fans are the best and so get to see some

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Speaker 4: of the guys haven't seen in a couple of years.

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Speaker 4: So it's gonna be. It's gonna be. It's gonna be

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Speaker 4: a blast. Absolutely.

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Speaker 3: So a few of our listeners may be wondering who's

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Speaker 3: this Ken guy that Joe's referring to, So let me

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Speaker 3: properly introduce him.

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Speaker 2: He's Ken Lazarus.

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Speaker 3: He's the co founder and CEO of Infinite Sky AI

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Speaker 3: company based out of Conquered Massachusetts. It's AI for Athletic performance,

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Speaker 3: and we want to talk to him about what AI

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Speaker 3: means in the baseball world and what Infinite Sky is doing.

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Speaker 2: First of all, welcome Ken, how you doing.

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Speaker 5: Thanks Tom, great to be on here, and hey Joe,

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Speaker 5: nice to really beat you guys. It's like I am

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Speaker 5: in awe of being on with a couple of legends

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Speaker 5: in sports and baseball here, so super excited to be

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Speaker 5: on the show.

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Speaker 3: Well, hopefully you're going to give us, and I'm sure

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Speaker 3: you will a nice education here because things are happening

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Speaker 3: so fast in the AI world, and especially in baseball.

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Speaker 2: It's no different than a lot of businesses.

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Speaker 3: I want you to give us a little bit of

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Speaker 3: a thumbnail sketch of what infant skuy can do because

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Speaker 3: from what I understand and I've talked with you about this,

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Speaker 3: you can actually take basically any kind of video but

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Speaker 3: the video.

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Speaker 2: A lot of people are used to.

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Speaker 3: Seeing online and seeing some clips and figuring out everything

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Speaker 3: from flight tracking to biomechanical analysis to predictive and analytics.

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Speaker 3: Give me a thumbnail sketch of what Infinite's guy can do,

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Speaker 3: especially as it relates to the major league level.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean we started just sort of thinking about

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Speaker 5: video and all the data of information that's available in

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Speaker 5: a video, and then sort of who watches videos Like athletes, coaches,

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Speaker 5: We look at the video tape over and over again

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Speaker 5: because there's so much useful information there, and watching the

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Speaker 5: trends in AI and computer vision, machine learning, it sort

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Speaker 5: of dawned on us that hey, we could actually sort

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Speaker 5: of have the computer watch the video, learn what's happened

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Speaker 5: in the video, and create some data that might be

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Speaker 5: useful to teams, coaches, players.

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Speaker 6: So that's kind of the idea.

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Speaker 5: We had to do some tricky tech to sort of

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Speaker 5: get a flat video into three D. We don't probably

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Speaker 5: don't want to get any using physics engines and AI

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Speaker 5: and all this kind of technology to make that all happen.

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Speaker 5: But really we're having a computer watch the video and

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Speaker 5: create the data. I think there's probably one hundred million

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Speaker 5: hours of pitching video in this regular video available to

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Speaker 5: mine and kind of understand what happened and no trends

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Speaker 5: and things like that, so and we can get it too.

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Speaker 5: The specific which products we can do ballflight tracking when

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Speaker 5: there is no tracking hardware, that's a key one that

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Speaker 5: teams and players want.

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Speaker 6: Command. I hope we can talk about that because I think.

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Speaker 5: That's a really important kind of pitching metric and one

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Speaker 5: that's kind of underutilized maybe in baseball, where you are

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Speaker 5: figuring out what was.

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Speaker 6: The intended target of the pitcher.

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Speaker 5: We can look at command biomechanics, what are the things

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Speaker 5: that are actually influencing whether you're hitting the target or not,

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Speaker 5: and then kind of get into full biomechanics, which gives

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Speaker 5: you things like push off force so you know if

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Speaker 5: someone's getting tired, or pitching efficiency and things like that.

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Speaker 5: But we work a lot with the teams the athletes

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Speaker 5: and try to understand what data do they want, what

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Speaker 5: data do they need, what's going to help them make decisions?

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Speaker 5: And of course you know, data is data, right and

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Speaker 5: then really it's.

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Speaker 6: Up to the coach and the athlete how they want

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Speaker 6: to use the data.

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Speaker 5: Some are more heavy data, some are lighter and data

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Speaker 5: they're going to mix in their own personal experience, but

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Speaker 5: we're going to provide them they what's going to help

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Speaker 5: them get better, make a better selection in terms of

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Speaker 5: free agency, you know, whatever it is.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to drill down quickly on that what you

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Speaker 3: just said. How many teams are you working with and

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Speaker 3: what are you getting back from them so far in

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Speaker 3: terms of what they want to see?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, so probably about half the teams and almost all

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Speaker 5: the teams at some stage of evaluation. We go from

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Speaker 5: a small set that are already using and kind of

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Speaker 5: in production where we're delivering every night the games that

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Speaker 5: got played and starting to incorporate that into their models,

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Speaker 5: to ones that are in you know, sort of the

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Speaker 5: last stages of valuation, to ones that are just starting

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Speaker 5: to evaluate. So kind of that that range right now.

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Speaker 5: But several teams who are you know, users currently and

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Speaker 5: working closely with Major League baseball, you know, to help

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Speaker 5: validate and other things like that going going forward.

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Speaker 6: So we have a nice relationship there as well.

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Speaker 4: For me listening to this whole thing, I mean, and

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Speaker 4: I read a lot of this stuff Tommy sent to me,

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Speaker 4: and the stuff just gonna like, from my perspective, what's

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Speaker 4: really interesting as much as anything, because you know the

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Speaker 4: video is slowing on video, you know, Biomechanical analysis, all

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Speaker 4: that kind of stuff is absolutely wonderful. And I get

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Speaker 4: it because it when I when I hear those terms

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Speaker 4: and the ability to do that, that that then lends

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Speaker 4: to feel. And I'm a big feel guy. So I mean,

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Speaker 4: I until I feel my motion is being correct in

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Speaker 4: you as my coach or watching me and say that

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Speaker 4: is correct, I really don't know anything, but the moment

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Speaker 4: we arrive at that point simultaneously then actually knows something.

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Speaker 4: So that from that perspective, it's really I love it.

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Speaker 4: And I wish somebody could help me with my golf

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Speaker 4: swing right now. So that's the one.

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Speaker 6: But that's the real motivation, right it is.

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Speaker 4: I've got to get back to that at some point.

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Speaker 4: But as you you know, the one part your predictive

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Speaker 4: and analytics are talking about injury risk, helping to highlight

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Speaker 4: or stay ahead of that, or be predictive in regards

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Speaker 4: to who is a high injury risk. And why could

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Speaker 4: you talk about that a little bit because to me

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Speaker 4: that might be the most important thing, honestly, I mean,

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Speaker 4: as to know when I'm putting somebody at risk, primarily

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Speaker 4: pitchers we're talking about. I know, one of with the Angels,

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Speaker 4: there was all these different methods employed to prevent injury

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Speaker 4: from a player who may have had a taxing day

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Speaker 4: of the day before running the bases, chasing, fly ball, sliding,

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Speaker 4: et cetera. And I never really bought into that, quite frankly.

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Speaker 4: But to prevent a picture from injuring himself via better

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Speaker 4: pitching mechanics on the foot lands and the arms and

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Speaker 4: the right slot, et cetera, that to me is interesting.

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Speaker 4: So I mean, could you just explain to me how

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Speaker 4: that happens with the the injury risk and how you're

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Speaker 4: able to predict something like that?

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Speaker 6: Yeah, one hundred percent.

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Speaker 5: And I wouldn't say like at this point we can predict,

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Speaker 5: but we were getting there right, so and that's the

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Speaker 5: that's the goal for sure. But but for here's an

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Speaker 5: example is let's say we'll work with a team and

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Speaker 5: we'll plot out here's a command versus performance, and you know,

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Speaker 5: you should get kind of a straight line.

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Speaker 6: We have very high correlation.

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Speaker 5: It's one of the reasons why people like our command

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Speaker 5: numbers because we are getting correlation to performance. You can

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Speaker 5: correlate to x, fab or war, whatever whatever you want.

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Speaker 5: But every once in a while, we'll see a picture

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Speaker 5: that's off that line by quite a bit, right. They're

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Speaker 5: like an outlier. They look like right, and we say,

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Speaker 5: well why, and then the team will go either that

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Speaker 5: or they'll say, hey, you know this picture, we think

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Speaker 5: their command's actually better than you're showing.

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Speaker 6: That's our feel, right, they have the feel.

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Speaker 5: For the for them, and and every time we look

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Speaker 5: into that, what we find is that the reason why

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Speaker 5: they're off is because something has changed. So we're able

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Speaker 5: to pick up a change because it's mechanical or an

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Speaker 5: injury or something early.

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Speaker 6: On, and we'll see that kind of outlier change.

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Speaker 5: And I could give you a whole bunch of antecdotes

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Speaker 5: where that happened. I don't think I could statistically prove

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Speaker 5: it yet. Hopefully we'll get there with an up data.

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Speaker 5: But for example, example Sandy Alcatra was, you know, coming

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Speaker 5: back from Tommy John had like a twelve vra in

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Speaker 5: the first Apple last year, and we're looking at his

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Speaker 5: numbers at the trade deadline, going, hey, this guy is

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Speaker 5: bought on elite in his command right now. So we're

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Speaker 5: like and some some reporter wrote an article on this

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Speaker 5: even back in July and said that, you know, we

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Speaker 5: were so in this kind of great command and then

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Speaker 5: what happened second half of the season.

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Speaker 6: He was spot on, did super well, had like a

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Speaker 6: three er.

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Speaker 5: So we're able to sort of pick up whatever it

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Speaker 5: is in the mechanics that cause them to do better

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Speaker 5: or worse.

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Speaker 6: We're seeing that show up.

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Speaker 5: In our command numbers because our command numbers are so

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Speaker 5: accurate and we're actually seeing that kind of before the

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Speaker 5: other statistics would show it, so we can pick up

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Speaker 5: on that. And when it comes to like, let's say, injury,

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Speaker 5: what I've heard and you probably have a great experience

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Speaker 5: on this, would love to hear what you have to say, Like,

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Speaker 5: like a couple of weeks before someone gets injured, they

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Speaker 5: kind of know something's off, or maybe their hip rotations

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Speaker 5: off and they put too much straight on their shoulder.

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Speaker 5: If you could pick up on that stuff, maybe you

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Speaker 5: could prevent some of these injuries. The other thing I'd

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Speaker 5: say is that you know speed and movement are absolutely

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Speaker 5: correlated to injury. I think there's a lot of data

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Speaker 5: on that we believe command would not be as correlated

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Speaker 5: to it.

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Speaker 6: So if we can get.

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Speaker 5: Kids to focus on a command performance number and improve

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Speaker 5: the I know their arms are going to get stronger later.

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Speaker 6: Get them to focus on better and better command.

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Speaker 5: Now they don't just have to rip their arm off

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Speaker 5: to get a contract or to get a scholarship or whatever.

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Speaker 5: You know, there's another option. You can show some potential,

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Speaker 5: and I think we'll be able to show that those

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Speaker 5: command numbers over our career, you know, they really do

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Speaker 5: mean something, and even these expensive pre agent contracts, your age,

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Speaker 5: you know your velocity is going to go down. I

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Speaker 5: believe we'll be able to show they're going to hold

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Speaker 5: their command better.

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Speaker 6: So I think there's a lot.

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Speaker 5: Of excitement and problems around a command index that's unexplored

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Speaker 5: because we haven't had a good one that's really correlated yet.

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Speaker 4: I really like that answer. I mean, honestly, you just

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Speaker 4: concluded by not chasing velocity and just trying to throw

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Speaker 4: as hard as you can. And you also mentioned the

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Speaker 4: fact with physical maturity, velocity just should actually improve. Then

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Speaker 4: the stuff that you do do there with your analysis,

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Speaker 4: I mean spin rates and things that that nature, pitch

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Speaker 4: shaping and all that stuff that comes down the road.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, everything you just mentioned right there, I agree.

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Speaker 4: And when you talk about command. One of the things

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Speaker 4: about pictures that had been injured or were like on

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Speaker 4: the verge of being injured, there was something wrong when command.

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Speaker 4: When command goes, there's normally something wrong with the guy

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Speaker 4: other than maybe he has like a mental hang up

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Speaker 4: all of a sudden, which can occur, and that's just

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Speaker 4: you could figure that out just by talking to him.

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Speaker 4: But somebody might try to conceal something physically off just

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Speaker 4: by a little bit, and that starts to develop into

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Speaker 4: someuffing and work, because when you start making adaptations that

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Speaker 4: aren't necessarily good, then you could actually put strain somewhere else,

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Speaker 4: and all of a sudden, you got a pretty big problem.

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Speaker 4: So I'm a big believer in watching for command first

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Speaker 4: as an indicator that something might be off, and then

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Speaker 4: I like the idea of not chasing velocity necessarily and

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Speaker 4: really coming back to the word command, control and command

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Speaker 4: however you want to term it, and really just let's

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Speaker 4: rely a little bit on physical maturity and as a

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Speaker 4: guy gets older, bigger, stronger, same thing with an offensive player.

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Speaker 4: So I do I like I like that answer a lot.

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Speaker 4: I think we're on the same page with that.

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Speaker 3: Can at the risk of oversimplifying things here in terms

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Speaker 3: of the command Joe's talking about here, the measurement is

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Speaker 3: as simple as how far the catcher's glove moves from

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Speaker 3: target to actually where the ball arrives in the zone.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, so the trick is obviously with all the ball tracking,

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Speaker 5: and we can do that. If you don't have ball tracking,

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Speaker 5: you know where the ball ended up in the zone, right,

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Speaker 5: So we know that. What has been hard to ascertain

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Speaker 5: is what is the intended target where the picture throw

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Speaker 5: the ball trick And that's what we've figured out an

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Speaker 5: algorithm that it looks at the phase of the picture,

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Speaker 5: those sort of motions, what the catcher's doing, and movement

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Speaker 5: and glove and orientation and a whole bunch of things

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Speaker 5: like that. If you watch a video, you can see

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Speaker 5: where the catcher set the target.

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Speaker 6: You know, ninety nine times out of one hundred, it's

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Speaker 6: pretty clear.

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Speaker 5: The trick is how do you get the AI to

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Speaker 5: figure all that out and then trans into real three

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Speaker 5: dimensions and all those things that were.

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Speaker 6: Able to do.

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Speaker 5: But I want to go back also to something Joe

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Speaker 5: said here, which is go and talk to the picture

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Speaker 5: if something's off right. So that's this combination of the

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Speaker 5: data and how you use the data, which I think

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Speaker 5: is really important. So if you see something off, go

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Speaker 5: and talk to the picture. We have this fabulous sports

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Speaker 5: advisory board, Rich Hill, Jason Castro, Mark Mallanson and these

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Speaker 5: guys are first of.

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Speaker 6: All, super great humans. I love talking to him, fabulous

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Speaker 6: competitive athletes.

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Speaker 5: And you know Rich was still pitching this last year

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Speaker 5: and you know, one game he killed it on command,

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Speaker 5: looked fantastic. In one game his command wasn't got great.

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Speaker 5: So I just called up Rich, say hey, what's going on?

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Speaker 5: And he said, oh, like, you know, it's really human.

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Speaker 5: The ball wasn't coming off my hand right. So that

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Speaker 5: was awesome. Like we learned a ton lot just by

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Speaker 5: saying hey, go now. So this isn't like you look

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Speaker 5: at the data and say, oh there's something wrong. You say, hey,

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Speaker 5: let's go talk to the picture. Maybe there's something wrong.

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Speaker 5: Maybe not, you know, and that's really gets to this,

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Speaker 5: how do you use a data? How do you incorporate

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Speaker 5: it into your routines for an athlete? And because that's

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Speaker 5: really important because if you don't trust the AI, no

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Speaker 5: one's going to ever look at it and use it.

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Speaker 5: And there's other factors you're never going to have all

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Speaker 5: you know, you're never going to blindly follow the data.

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Speaker 5: That's like crazy too, So you know you don't want

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Speaker 5: to ignore it, you don't want to blindly follow it.

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Speaker 6: You got to find that right mix. I think that's

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Speaker 6: really important.

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Speaker 4: Back to the intended target, because when you're talking about

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Speaker 4: Tommy brought up command the intended target his historically there

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Speaker 4: was an intended target. I mean where a catcher actually

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Speaker 4: set up with a solid static love farther in advance,

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Speaker 4: further in advance than what happens today with the elephants

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Speaker 4: trunk where their glove on the ground, they pull it

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Speaker 4: up at the last minute. It's always moving, it's always moving,

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Speaker 4: so you know, just an acdotally. Gene Mock used to

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Speaker 4: love that. I used to talk to Gene about that,

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Speaker 4: about having my catcher set up late because they did

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Speaker 4: not want to give up location either to an on

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Speaker 4: deck hit or a camera whatever. So we would set

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Speaker 4: up late. And his thought was that your eye movement,

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Speaker 4: your eyes will always followed movement, and in a sense

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Speaker 4: it can be actually better. That was just a gene talking,

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Speaker 4: but today's world and I watched these games and the

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Speaker 4: way the the movement of the catcher and now I'm

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Speaker 4: an umpire, I'm actually pissed. I mean, I the way

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Speaker 4: these these guys pulsed up these days and get away

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Speaker 4: with it is unbelievably. It's it's unbelievable that that is

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Speaker 4: permitted anyhow, So how do you how do you come

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Speaker 4: to terms with the fact that the catcher's movement his

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Speaker 4: gloved so much and then and then actually uh determined

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Speaker 4: what is the determined target?

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Speaker 6: Yeah? Great, great, great question.

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Speaker 5: And you know, I think that's why this has been

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Speaker 5: a challenge, right, is that catchers have patterns.

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Speaker 6: They change their patterns for other.

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Speaker 5: Reasons like framing or you know, being able to get

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Speaker 5: the ball and quickly released for a throw to second

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Speaker 5: base or whatever whatever they're they're doing right, it's not

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Speaker 5: optimized for just setting a target, but they do set

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Speaker 5: it right, and as you said, it's later excuse me

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Speaker 5: what we call like somewhere between first move when they

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Speaker 5: pick their leg up and somewhere before release.

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Speaker 6: Obviously, it doesn't do any good to sit it after

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Speaker 6: a release, so you know, where is it in that.

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Speaker 5: But one of the things that machine learning the ads

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Speaker 5: really good at is identifying patterns. And the nice thing

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Speaker 5: is that it seems like a lot of the catcher's

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Speaker 5: coming at the same school. This is what you know

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Speaker 5: Jason has talked to us about. Hey, look, here's how

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Speaker 5: the catchers are trained. They're trained to sort of.

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Speaker 6: Do these patterns these days and that way evolve over time.

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Speaker 5: But the AI will pick up these patterns and it'll

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Speaker 5: be able to figure it out where that target's getting set.

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Speaker 5: And again it's the phase the pitcher has to be.

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Speaker 5: Obviously looking at the catcher.

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Speaker 6: It doesn't do any.

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Speaker 5: Good, there's certain, and it's going to be later in

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Speaker 5: that sort of pitch cycle if there's a man on second.

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Speaker 5: Things like that are all kind of get factored into

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Speaker 5: the machine learning. And just like you can observe that

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Speaker 5: shoe when you're watching, you know, the AI can pick

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Speaker 5: that up too.

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Speaker 2: Cool fascinating stuff.

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Speaker 3: I mean, that's the beauty of machine learning, right how

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Speaker 3: many pitches in the course of a Major league baseball season? Right,

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Speaker 3: We've got more than two thousand games, more than three

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Speaker 3: hundred pitches per game. It's just crazy if you ask

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Speaker 3: a bunch of analysts in your front office to do

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Speaker 3: it and never be able to get this problem solved.

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Speaker 6: Seven hundred and ninety thousand, seven hundred and ninety thousand.

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Speaker 2: By the way, is that what it is?

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Speaker 5: Just in you know, yeah, just in in major league,

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Speaker 5: the minor league and other you know, set of that,

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Speaker 5: like another.

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Speaker 6: Couple of million you have I think two point four

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Speaker 6: million in D one. Uh So we got a lot

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Speaker 6: of pitches to look at it.

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Speaker 2: That's a lot of video.

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Speaker 4: Wow.

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Speaker 3: Our guest here is Ken Lazarz. He's the co founder

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Speaker 3: and CEO of Infinite Sky. We've been talking about AI

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Speaker 3: in baseball and what Infinite Sky is doing.

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Speaker 2: We're going to take a quick break. When we get back.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to talk about some of these specific numbers

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Speaker 3: and pitchers that the command feature with Infinite Sky has featured,

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Speaker 3: and we'll dive into that really fascinating stuff.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to the Book of Joe podcast.

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Speaker 3: I mentioned the command feature. Ken Lazarus on Infinite Sky.

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Speaker 3: Just looking at the numbers. What really caught my attention.

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Speaker 3: And I know there's a there's probably an algorithm behind this,

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Speaker 3: but to attach a number to somebody's command, there's an

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Speaker 3: index for the command for all the Major league pitchers.

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Speaker 2: Number one and Brewers fans are gonna love this is

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Speaker 2: on Hell.

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Speaker 3: Zurpa, Trek Scooble back to back, Sy young Winner is

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Speaker 3: number two. On Hell, Zurpa is number one in terms

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Speaker 3: of command. Wow, that really blew me away. It's not

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Speaker 3: surprising to me that the Brewers who made the trade

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Speaker 3: to get Zurpa in their rotation, it looks like he's

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Speaker 3: gonna maybe go to the rotation, but he's an out getter,

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Speaker 3: or as they like to say, maybe they've found something.

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Speaker 2: Maybe you have found something.

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Speaker 3: Explain why Zurpa is number one, Trek Schooble number two,

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Speaker 3: and Zach Wheeler number three.

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Speaker 2: That surprised me.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: So if you look at schoolble and we can get

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Speaker 5: into command biomechanics, but let's just say, look, the guy's

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Speaker 5: got fantastic command, you know, elite command, but he also

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Speaker 5: has top of the charts other things too, you know,

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Speaker 5: in terms of his speed, his movement. You know the

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Speaker 5: things that you traditionally look at, right, it's not one

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Speaker 5: hundred percent command that gets you the cy young, but

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Speaker 5: it's really important. There's also armslot angle. It's an important

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Speaker 5: thing too. And if you actually look one of the

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Speaker 5: things we can figure out just from the error patterns

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Speaker 5: what we call command biomechanics, we can understand the arm

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Speaker 5: slot angle, the variants.

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Speaker 6: And if you look at.

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Speaker 5: His fastball against his change up, his arm slot is

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Speaker 5: exactly the same. And also there's a lot of pictures

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Speaker 5: will have pairs, but like it'll have their their sinker

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Speaker 5: paired with their slider in terms of different movement, but

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Speaker 5: same slot.

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Speaker 6: And Joe's Donning's head good because I'm not completely.

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Speaker 5: A little out of my depth here, but you know,

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Speaker 5: you have a fastball and a change up that's coming

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Speaker 5: out of the same slot. Those pairs are critical. So

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Speaker 5: there's a lot of other things that a Terrek school.

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Speaker 6: Is doing to get to that elite level.

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Speaker 5: Is just one of them, right, And what we're doing

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Speaker 5: here is, you know what our unique peak offering here

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Speaker 5: is is command. And yeah, so there are a bunch

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Speaker 5: of pitchers that are have elite command. Mostly they have

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Speaker 5: a lead everything, right, so you see all the good

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Speaker 5: ones at the top of that list, but every once

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Speaker 5: in a while there's someone who's got great command, but

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Speaker 5: maybe the other stuff isn't quite as good, and they're

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Speaker 5: working on that. They're going to get there, but having

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00:20:24,958 --> 00:20:27,478
Speaker 5: that command, you also know it's going to last their career,

440
00:20:27,558 --> 00:20:30,318
Speaker 5: maybe better than speed two things like that. So this

441
00:20:30,518 --> 00:20:33,718
Speaker 5: breaks down that let's say that x FIP or the

442
00:20:33,758 --> 00:20:36,638
Speaker 5: war whatever team's using and saying, Okay, I'm getting it

443
00:20:36,998 --> 00:20:39,678
Speaker 5: this much from command, I'm getting this much from other things.

444
00:20:40,158 --> 00:20:42,758
Speaker 5: What do I care about in this contract? Which one

445
00:20:42,798 --> 00:20:45,518
Speaker 5: do I think is coachable? Maybe which one's not? You know,

446
00:20:45,598 --> 00:20:48,598
Speaker 5: all those factors a team can go into. This command

447
00:20:48,718 --> 00:20:51,638
Speaker 5: is just you know, another piece of the puzzle that

448
00:20:51,678 --> 00:20:53,558
Speaker 5: they can add and get some great information on.

449
00:20:53,678 --> 00:20:55,918
Speaker 4: You're talking like a baseball guy, Ken, I kind.

450
00:20:55,838 --> 00:20:58,198
Speaker 6: Of like it. We're working at it. We're working at it.

451
00:20:58,318 --> 00:21:00,478
Speaker 4: Yes, Well, it's not just all it's not just all

452
00:21:00,518 --> 00:21:03,798
Speaker 4: about the tech is I had written another question looking

453
00:21:03,798 --> 00:21:07,158
Speaker 4: at your stuff before we began. And I'm a big

454
00:21:07,198 --> 00:21:11,878
Speaker 4: believer in all of this analytical stuff that I've been

455
00:21:11,918 --> 00:21:13,558
Speaker 4: a part of with so many years, and now with

456
00:21:13,638 --> 00:21:18,998
Speaker 4: the AI being married into this whole thing, the scouting departments,

457
00:21:19,318 --> 00:21:21,638
Speaker 4: the predicting of players to come down north. To me,

458
00:21:21,718 --> 00:21:25,958
Speaker 4: that's still the greatest advantage of having a good analytical

459
00:21:25,958 --> 00:21:28,798
Speaker 4: department in the big leagues. I would think as acquisitions,

460
00:21:29,038 --> 00:21:31,518
Speaker 4: whether it's just free agency or if it's during the

461
00:21:31,558 --> 00:21:34,158
Speaker 4: season via trades. And when you get to look under

462
00:21:34,198 --> 00:21:37,158
Speaker 4: the hood at items that you think are important to you,

463
00:21:37,198 --> 00:21:41,038
Speaker 4: that's stuff that you really proprietarily think are really important

464
00:21:41,038 --> 00:21:44,358
Speaker 4: and good and somebody else might miss and thus you

465
00:21:44,678 --> 00:21:46,878
Speaker 4: get that diamond in the rough. So I mean I

466
00:21:46,878 --> 00:21:49,798
Speaker 4: wrote down such things. Predict who shall become a good

467
00:21:49,838 --> 00:21:54,278
Speaker 4: player is part of your future with this AI situation.

468
00:21:54,798 --> 00:21:57,118
Speaker 4: Are you going to be able to augment scouting departments?

469
00:21:57,438 --> 00:22:00,238
Speaker 4: Number one and number two? Is there? And I don't

470
00:22:00,278 --> 00:22:01,998
Speaker 4: even know if there's a possible but I mean you

471
00:22:02,158 --> 00:22:04,598
Speaker 4: just like you're kind of being a baseball that you are.

472
00:22:04,838 --> 00:22:07,838
Speaker 4: You mentioned makeup, tenacity, heart feel for the game kind

473
00:22:07,838 --> 00:22:10,678
Speaker 4: of in that last segment. So are these the kind

474
00:22:10,758 --> 00:22:12,878
Speaker 4: of things that are on your radar? Also to really

475
00:22:13,638 --> 00:22:16,638
Speaker 4: interact with scouting departments and helping making them better. And

476
00:22:16,678 --> 00:22:18,918
Speaker 4: then is there a way to actually want to fire

477
00:22:18,998 --> 00:22:21,238
Speaker 4: or figure out what is human qualities and how do

478
00:22:21,318 --> 00:22:23,798
Speaker 4: they rate on this particular scale.

479
00:22:24,198 --> 00:22:27,838
Speaker 5: Yeah, so let me let me start with the scouting

480
00:22:27,918 --> 00:22:31,318
Speaker 5: because I think it was the last coaches convention or

481
00:22:31,318 --> 00:22:34,318
Speaker 5: wherever we're at and talking to a bunch of the

482
00:22:34,358 --> 00:22:36,838
Speaker 5: scouts and we were sort of in the you know,

483
00:22:37,318 --> 00:22:38,838
Speaker 5: early stages.

484
00:22:38,398 --> 00:22:39,958
Speaker 6: On on developing the command.

485
00:22:40,198 --> 00:22:42,478
Speaker 5: And said to a couple of scoutings, if you guys

486
00:22:42,518 --> 00:22:45,238
Speaker 5: could have anything right, you know what, what would you want?

487
00:22:46,038 --> 00:22:48,758
Speaker 4: And the great question I want?

488
00:22:49,158 --> 00:22:52,438
Speaker 6: I want command? And I'm like, you know, look, I

489
00:22:53,278 --> 00:22:53,558
Speaker 6: made sure.

490
00:22:53,598 --> 00:22:55,478
Speaker 5: Ever, I said, I didn't feed this guy the answer,

491
00:22:55,518 --> 00:22:57,638
Speaker 5: you know, like, I'm like, can I give you a kiss?

492
00:22:57,678 --> 00:22:59,078
Speaker 6: I love you? Like, thank you for saying that.

493
00:22:59,318 --> 00:23:01,198
Speaker 5: And he said, I go to these games and I

494
00:23:01,358 --> 00:23:04,318
Speaker 5: watch the kids and I have to write in my

495
00:23:04,478 --> 00:23:06,038
Speaker 5: report what their command is.

496
00:23:06,038 --> 00:23:08,918
Speaker 6: And I'm just taking a while. Guess uh, you know

497
00:23:08,958 --> 00:23:11,678
Speaker 6: they I really don't know. I'm sitting behind home plate.

498
00:23:11,758 --> 00:23:14,078
Speaker 5: I'm trying to figure out where the ball is even

499
00:23:14,158 --> 00:23:16,798
Speaker 5: going on each pitch, let alone understanding where he was

500
00:23:16,838 --> 00:23:18,958
Speaker 5: gonna you know, the target was said, I can't see

501
00:23:18,998 --> 00:23:21,438
Speaker 5: the glove from behind, you know whatever, right, And so

502
00:23:21,678 --> 00:23:23,438
Speaker 5: he said that's the hardest thing for them. So I

503
00:23:23,478 --> 00:23:26,518
Speaker 5: think one percent, this is a great tool for that,

504
00:23:26,638 --> 00:23:29,998
Speaker 5: you know, huge whether it's for you know, a free

505
00:23:29,998 --> 00:23:33,078
Speaker 5: agent signing, it's a getting someone up from the miners,

506
00:23:33,118 --> 00:23:35,598
Speaker 5: whether it's the next kid you're gonna sign or develop

507
00:23:35,598 --> 00:23:38,318
Speaker 5: in your program, spotting that diamond in the rough in

508
00:23:38,398 --> 00:23:39,478
Speaker 5: D two, whatever it is.

509
00:23:39,998 --> 00:23:41,998
Speaker 6: I think that's really you know, gonna.

510
00:23:41,758 --> 00:23:46,078
Speaker 5: Be cool with regards to you know, the heart aspect

511
00:23:46,158 --> 00:23:49,918
Speaker 5: you talked about Joe, Like, humans are complicated. So I'd

512
00:23:49,918 --> 00:23:52,878
Speaker 5: say that's the hardest thing that AI is ever gonna do.

513
00:23:52,958 --> 00:23:54,678
Speaker 5: So that's you know, kind of maybe out there. I

514
00:23:54,718 --> 00:23:58,678
Speaker 5: don't know, but you know, I think that's where really

515
00:23:58,718 --> 00:24:02,438
Speaker 5: the scout maybe's gonna shine is like to kind of

516
00:24:02,438 --> 00:24:04,398
Speaker 5: try to understand that human nature a little bit.

517
00:24:04,558 --> 00:24:05,638
Speaker 6: Who's the one that's got the.

518
00:24:05,638 --> 00:24:08,518
Speaker 5: Heart to spend the time, the effort, whatever it takes

519
00:24:08,558 --> 00:24:11,078
Speaker 5: to get there, to put up withever hardship you have

520
00:24:11,158 --> 00:24:13,838
Speaker 5: to at the beginning to get to that you know, nirvana,

521
00:24:13,958 --> 00:24:14,438
Speaker 5: getting to.

522
00:24:14,398 --> 00:24:16,878
Speaker 6: The big leagues, you know, all that stuff. You know,

523
00:24:16,918 --> 00:24:18,558
Speaker 6: that's a lot harder to figure out.

524
00:24:18,758 --> 00:24:20,878
Speaker 5: But that's why we still have scouts, Like they got

525
00:24:20,918 --> 00:24:22,478
Speaker 5: to figure that out or at least try.

526
00:24:22,358 --> 00:24:24,598
Speaker 4: Right, That's why I love the marriage of the two man.

527
00:24:24,638 --> 00:24:26,758
Speaker 4: That's what I've been all about since because I started,

528
00:24:26,798 --> 00:24:28,398
Speaker 4: you know, I actually was doing this kind of stuff

529
00:24:28,398 --> 00:24:30,518
Speaker 4: with the Angels in the nineties, my own version of it.

530
00:24:30,918 --> 00:24:32,518
Speaker 4: Then you get to the devil rays and all of

531
00:24:32,558 --> 00:24:35,638
Speaker 4: a sudden they have a wonderful department that still still exists.

532
00:24:36,478 --> 00:24:42,358
Speaker 4: And any extremes in any situation, left or right, liberal, conservative,

533
00:24:42,398 --> 00:24:46,038
Speaker 4: whatever extremists, extremism doesn't work for me. I think you

534
00:24:46,118 --> 00:24:48,198
Speaker 4: have to really work to achieve a balance between both

535
00:24:48,238 --> 00:24:51,438
Speaker 4: sides in order to come to the correct answers. So yeah,

536
00:24:51,478 --> 00:24:55,958
Speaker 4: I mean again, I love everything you're here representing right here.

537
00:24:56,518 --> 00:25:00,438
Speaker 4: It is difficult to project on those areas because as

538
00:25:00,478 --> 00:25:03,078
Speaker 4: I was a scout for many years too, and you

539
00:25:03,158 --> 00:25:05,238
Speaker 4: have to write all these numbers down, that's right. How

540
00:25:05,238 --> 00:25:07,398
Speaker 4: do you become accurate? What is accurate with that? How

541
00:25:07,438 --> 00:25:12,078
Speaker 4: do you determine your method in regards to developing? How

542
00:25:12,078 --> 00:25:14,278
Speaker 4: do you put down a fifty for an average command grade?

543
00:25:14,278 --> 00:25:16,598
Speaker 4: How do I put fifty five or forty five? As

544
00:25:16,638 --> 00:25:20,238
Speaker 4: it as easy as look into guys statistics, walks versus strikeouts,

545
00:25:20,598 --> 00:25:23,558
Speaker 4: you know, just just relying on something like that or

546
00:25:24,118 --> 00:25:27,438
Speaker 4: really watching an easy delivery finish as well. Looks like

547
00:25:27,438 --> 00:25:29,918
Speaker 4: his ARMStrokes fluid. You watch them from all different angles,

548
00:25:30,398 --> 00:25:32,558
Speaker 4: and he does He does it easily, and it's not

549
00:25:32,598 --> 00:25:35,278
Speaker 4: like a full effort kind of a situation. All these things,

550
00:25:35,278 --> 00:25:38,118
Speaker 4: to me, would play into a better command grade. But

551
00:25:38,238 --> 00:25:43,358
Speaker 4: I love the idea of groups understanding that it's so

552
00:25:43,398 --> 00:25:49,038
Speaker 4: important to morph together both this information, analytical information with eyeballs,

553
00:25:49,278 --> 00:25:53,798
Speaker 4: feel experience, wisdom in the field. To me, when you

554
00:25:53,958 --> 00:25:56,358
Speaker 4: are aware of that in a sense that we're going

555
00:25:56,398 --> 00:25:57,838
Speaker 4: to have that too, We're not just going to be

556
00:25:58,118 --> 00:26:02,198
Speaker 4: this extreme mechanical group, then you really got something going on.

557
00:26:02,238 --> 00:26:05,158
Speaker 3: I believe well said there, And what I want to

558
00:26:05,158 --> 00:26:08,358
Speaker 3: do is follow up on that because you mentioned, you know,

559
00:26:08,478 --> 00:26:11,398
Speaker 3: trying to make an analysis with the scouting department and

560
00:26:11,598 --> 00:26:14,998
Speaker 3: makeup if you will. I want to talk about specific

561
00:26:15,038 --> 00:26:18,318
Speaker 3: examples this year pictures on the free agent market with

562
00:26:18,438 --> 00:26:21,878
Speaker 3: some of the numbers from Infinite Sky from Ervaldez. I

563
00:26:21,878 --> 00:26:24,558
Speaker 3: don't know how you feel, Joe about frober Valdez still

564
00:26:24,558 --> 00:26:28,078
Speaker 3: out there. He's been durable elite ground ball pitcher, and

565
00:26:28,118 --> 00:26:29,678
Speaker 3: now there's some people in the game who think there

566
00:26:29,678 --> 00:26:32,038
Speaker 3: are times when he just loses his concentration on the

567
00:26:32,038 --> 00:26:33,798
Speaker 3: mount and we've seen him lose his stuff.

568
00:26:34,078 --> 00:26:34,958
Speaker 2: It's great stuff.

569
00:26:35,438 --> 00:26:38,718
Speaker 3: But looking at infinite Sky's numbers on command, even when

570
00:26:38,718 --> 00:26:41,118
Speaker 3: he struggled late in the year from er Valdez had

571
00:26:41,198 --> 00:26:42,798
Speaker 3: really really good command.

572
00:26:43,238 --> 00:26:45,078
Speaker 2: So maybe he's undervalued.

573
00:26:45,558 --> 00:26:47,398
Speaker 3: And Ken you can answer that as well, and what

574
00:26:47,438 --> 00:26:49,038
Speaker 3: that might reveal about a picture like that.

575
00:26:49,278 --> 00:26:51,918
Speaker 4: Well, from my perspective, you know, I saw him in

576
00:26:51,958 --> 00:26:54,758
Speaker 4: person a lot, and I think he sees right handed

577
00:26:54,838 --> 00:26:56,878
Speaker 4: hitters better than he sees left handed hitters. And if

578
00:26:56,878 --> 00:26:58,398
Speaker 4: there's any way you could help him with that and

579
00:26:58,438 --> 00:27:02,398
Speaker 4: break that down. I like his breaking ball a lot.

580
00:27:02,438 --> 00:27:04,358
Speaker 4: I let you. I like everything that he does a lot.

581
00:27:04,558 --> 00:27:06,398
Speaker 4: I agree with you. It seems to me like he

582
00:27:06,478 --> 00:27:08,918
Speaker 4: comes out of his delivery sometimes I agree with that

583
00:27:08,958 --> 00:27:10,638
Speaker 4: he kind of loses his focus. But at the end

584
00:27:10,678 --> 00:27:13,438
Speaker 4: of the day, what I take the Spella Absolutely he's

585
00:27:13,478 --> 00:27:15,638
Speaker 4: got that kind of elite stuff that when he's on, man,

586
00:27:15,638 --> 00:27:17,198
Speaker 4: he's going to be there in the sixth seventh inning

587
00:27:17,278 --> 00:27:19,518
Speaker 4: of a game. The days that he's bad, he's going

588
00:27:19,558 --> 00:27:21,478
Speaker 4: to be bad. I mean, I'm sorry, but you know,

589
00:27:21,838 --> 00:27:24,558
Speaker 4: sometimes you know the driver just doesn't work, You're just

590
00:27:24,598 --> 00:27:27,798
Speaker 4: going to be bad. That day, But overarching, I think

591
00:27:27,838 --> 00:27:30,318
Speaker 4: if you put all of his stuff together, I'd bet

592
00:27:30,358 --> 00:27:35,438
Speaker 4: that he's a good bet. Yeah, tough to hit, maywalk

593
00:27:35,478 --> 00:27:38,318
Speaker 4: a couple guys, but still hard to square up to

594
00:27:38,438 --> 00:27:41,998
Speaker 4: really you know, hit the ball exit Vlosci being consistently

595
00:27:42,038 --> 00:27:46,118
Speaker 4: hardy high against him to be difficult. So this is

596
00:27:46,158 --> 00:27:47,558
Speaker 4: the kind of guy to me that if you do

597
00:27:47,598 --> 00:27:50,638
Speaker 4: anything with him, I would I would really put a

598
00:27:50,758 --> 00:27:54,798
Speaker 4: good sports psychologist, a mental skills guy with this guy.

599
00:27:55,198 --> 00:27:57,398
Speaker 4: They teach him to breathe, to slow it down, how

600
00:27:57,438 --> 00:27:59,358
Speaker 4: to do these kind of things. That's what I see

601
00:27:59,358 --> 00:28:03,478
Speaker 4: as being his problem more than anything that mechanically physically

602
00:28:03,478 --> 00:28:04,118
Speaker 4: that is an.

603
00:28:03,958 --> 00:28:06,558
Speaker 5: Issue with So Joe, I love that, and I think

604
00:28:06,598 --> 00:28:09,078
Speaker 5: you need to get you on our sports advisory board

605
00:28:09,158 --> 00:28:12,958
Speaker 5: because this is the kind of like understanding of a

606
00:28:13,038 --> 00:28:16,638
Speaker 5: pitcher that is really helpful for us to collaborate with.

607
00:28:16,678 --> 00:28:19,558
Speaker 5: So we have the numbers on Ramber and he's his

608
00:28:20,238 --> 00:28:25,318
Speaker 5: command's elite. It's fantastic, especially his fastball. His sliders like incredible,

609
00:28:25,398 --> 00:28:29,158
Speaker 5: Like his slider command is maybe the highest I've seen,

610
00:28:29,998 --> 00:28:32,878
Speaker 5: and all his pitches are good. What we haven't looked

611
00:28:32,878 --> 00:28:35,438
Speaker 5: at Joe is like we haven't looked at that a

612
00:28:35,478 --> 00:28:37,958
Speaker 5: game to game fluctuation or let's say an inning to

613
00:28:37,998 --> 00:28:41,038
Speaker 5: inning fluctuation. Yet, but with what you just said, like,

614
00:28:41,118 --> 00:28:42,478
Speaker 5: that's the first thing I would go do.

615
00:28:42,758 --> 00:28:43,638
Speaker 6: They say, Okay, let's.

616
00:28:43,478 --> 00:28:46,118
Speaker 5: Plot this guy out by game by pitch type, and

617
00:28:46,198 --> 00:28:48,798
Speaker 5: let's see what's going on there. Is there something we

618
00:28:48,838 --> 00:28:50,958
Speaker 5: can spot in that game to game So you know,

619
00:28:51,118 --> 00:28:54,478
Speaker 5: in these times when you say, like he fades out

620
00:28:54,598 --> 00:28:56,398
Speaker 5: or what's going on, we don't know. Is it a

621
00:28:56,398 --> 00:28:58,558
Speaker 5: command thing, maybe it's something completely different, but at least

622
00:28:58,558 --> 00:29:01,318
Speaker 5: we can go go go check those numbers and see

623
00:29:01,358 --> 00:29:03,678
Speaker 5: if we see anything there based on what you said.

624
00:29:03,678 --> 00:29:05,998
Speaker 6: So that that's that's the kind of interplay that I love,

625
00:29:06,598 --> 00:29:07,518
Speaker 6: and we always do that.

626
00:29:07,558 --> 00:29:10,158
Speaker 5: We say, we see something interesting, let's go look up

627
00:29:10,198 --> 00:29:13,038
Speaker 5: this guy, really dig in understand what he's about, what's

628
00:29:13,078 --> 00:29:16,358
Speaker 5: going on with him, and then that'll that'll that'll point

629
00:29:16,438 --> 00:29:18,438
Speaker 5: us to the next set of analysis we can dig

630
00:29:18,478 --> 00:29:20,998
Speaker 5: in on to really kind of understand that. And it

631
00:29:21,118 --> 00:29:24,078
Speaker 5: just keeps going in that cycle of the knowing the pitcher,

632
00:29:24,158 --> 00:29:27,198
Speaker 5: working with the coach and looking at the data and

633
00:29:27,198 --> 00:29:29,238
Speaker 5: and around and around, and that's how you get I think,

634
00:29:29,278 --> 00:29:30,238
Speaker 5: to elite performance.

635
00:29:30,918 --> 00:29:32,638
Speaker 4: Last point, I just want to make I would start

636
00:29:32,638 --> 00:29:35,758
Speaker 4: with him. I would be curious his pitch selection versus lefties,

637
00:29:35,878 --> 00:29:39,078
Speaker 4: and then Righty's. I think he's more comfortable throwing into

638
00:29:39,078 --> 00:29:40,958
Speaker 4: that big hole to a right handed hitter and less

639
00:29:40,958 --> 00:29:43,718
Speaker 4: comfortable throwing off the body of a left handed hitter.

640
00:29:43,998 --> 00:29:46,758
Speaker 4: I think it's what he sees sometimes. That's that's my

641
00:29:47,478 --> 00:29:49,958
Speaker 4: that's my thought from the side, as a guy that

642
00:29:49,998 --> 00:29:52,798
Speaker 4: threw a lot of balls, like batting practice wise, do

643
00:29:52,878 --> 00:29:55,158
Speaker 4: you have a side that you feel better with? You

644
00:29:55,198 --> 00:29:56,998
Speaker 4: either like throwing off a hitter or you like throwing

645
00:29:57,038 --> 00:30:00,318
Speaker 4: to the big hole to the opposite hitter, And sometimes

646
00:30:00,478 --> 00:30:02,318
Speaker 4: it just either relaxes you and like of course there's

647
00:30:02,318 --> 00:30:04,718
Speaker 4: guys that don't care. They're they're the neutral guys are

648
00:30:04,718 --> 00:30:06,798
Speaker 4: good to both sides of the plate. And I know

649
00:30:06,878 --> 00:30:08,878
Speaker 4: his numbers are gonna indicate that he's still probably really

650
00:30:08,918 --> 00:30:11,438
Speaker 4: good against lefties, which he is. But overall, I think

651
00:30:11,478 --> 00:30:15,438
Speaker 4: I see a more naturalness about it when he's throwing

652
00:30:15,438 --> 00:30:17,438
Speaker 4: the wariety over lefty. And I'll just be curious, what

653
00:30:17,478 --> 00:30:19,878
Speaker 4: are you looking at? What are you seeing when that

654
00:30:19,958 --> 00:30:23,638
Speaker 4: catcher puts that target? Now, what's your first observation there

655
00:30:23,638 --> 00:30:26,398
Speaker 4: that leads you to that fluidity that needs to get

656
00:30:26,398 --> 00:30:27,798
Speaker 4: you to the point where you're more consistent.

657
00:30:28,638 --> 00:30:32,918
Speaker 3: Zach Gallon. I was happy to see my own instinct here.

658
00:30:32,918 --> 00:30:35,438
Speaker 3: On Zach Gallen, I think he's undervalued. You know a

659
00:30:35,438 --> 00:30:37,478
Speaker 3: lot of people have looked at his era and said, man,

660
00:30:37,478 --> 00:30:38,838
Speaker 3: that guy had a bad year. He did not have

661
00:30:38,878 --> 00:30:42,158
Speaker 3: a bad year, especially late in the year, and just

662
00:30:42,198 --> 00:30:44,798
Speaker 3: looking at some of the batted ball numbers, ken he was.

663
00:30:46,238 --> 00:30:49,598
Speaker 3: I usually don't like to use this word unlucky because

664
00:30:49,638 --> 00:30:51,518
Speaker 3: it all to me usually comes out in the wash.

665
00:30:51,598 --> 00:30:54,678
Speaker 3: But the batting average on his breaking stuff was way

666
00:30:54,718 --> 00:30:56,678
Speaker 3: higher than it should have been based on the contact

667
00:30:57,158 --> 00:31:01,118
Speaker 3: and looking at the Infinite's guide numbers on his command

668
00:31:01,238 --> 00:31:03,678
Speaker 3: I think you agree that this guy's probably undervalued on

669
00:31:03,718 --> 00:31:05,638
Speaker 3: them market, Yeah.

670
00:31:05,318 --> 00:31:07,918
Speaker 5: One hundred percent. And to finish off Framber, I think

671
00:31:07,958 --> 00:31:11,598
Speaker 5: he's undervalued as well. But but yeah, down to Zach. Actually,

672
00:31:11,758 --> 00:31:15,038
Speaker 5: you know, Valdez and Gallon or that would be the

673
00:31:15,078 --> 00:31:18,438
Speaker 5: top two folks still on the free agent market undervalued

674
00:31:18,478 --> 00:31:21,798
Speaker 5: and from a command perspective, so you pick those up,

675
00:31:21,798 --> 00:31:25,118
Speaker 5: and then also digging into Zach a little bit, you

676
00:31:25,118 --> 00:31:28,918
Speaker 5: know his it's interesting his fastball command numbers are better than.

677
00:31:28,798 --> 00:31:31,958
Speaker 6: His breaking stuff command numbers. So what you say about

678
00:31:32,278 --> 00:31:34,398
Speaker 6: you know where he's getting hit hard, that that's true.

679
00:31:34,598 --> 00:31:36,598
Speaker 5: So you know kind of know where to focus in

680
00:31:36,638 --> 00:31:38,958
Speaker 5: where to work on that right And and I don't

681
00:31:38,958 --> 00:31:41,758
Speaker 5: know if it's a deception issue or or an actual

682
00:31:41,918 --> 00:31:44,358
Speaker 5: you know, other thing issue, but they are the numbers

683
00:31:44,358 --> 00:31:47,638
Speaker 5: are a little lower on the on the breaking stuff side.

684
00:31:47,838 --> 00:31:51,398
Speaker 4: So you just mentioned it with Zach, I mean the famous,

685
00:31:51,518 --> 00:31:56,478
Speaker 4: the famous infamous point where you you lose would what

686
00:31:56,678 --> 00:31:59,358
Speaker 4: is the answer tipping? Could could AI predict tipping? Is

687
00:31:59,358 --> 00:32:01,918
Speaker 4: there something that you look at that with your cameras

688
00:32:02,438 --> 00:32:06,358
Speaker 4: that could tell a particular picture who's been really solid

689
00:32:06,398 --> 00:32:08,838
Speaker 4: all of a sudden things start falling apart, whether it's

690
00:32:08,838 --> 00:32:11,718
Speaker 4: out of the windup or the stretch or both. I mean,

691
00:32:11,958 --> 00:32:15,598
Speaker 4: can you actually predict or see tipping with a guy

692
00:32:15,638 --> 00:32:16,318
Speaker 4: in his delivery?

693
00:32:16,798 --> 00:32:18,998
Speaker 6: Well, I guess I don't know is the answer there?

694
00:32:19,038 --> 00:32:20,278
Speaker 6: I think it will be really interesting.

695
00:32:20,358 --> 00:32:23,438
Speaker 5: I do know we can look at those armslought angles

696
00:32:23,478 --> 00:32:26,598
Speaker 5: and pairs, and so if there if those have changed,

697
00:32:26,598 --> 00:32:29,598
Speaker 5: that would certainly be something that's can indicate the pitch

698
00:32:29,678 --> 00:32:32,318
Speaker 5: type coming to a picture. So we I first look

699
00:32:32,358 --> 00:32:35,318
Speaker 5: at those release angles and see if they've moved over.

700
00:32:35,118 --> 00:32:37,278
Speaker 6: Time or not, and and that sort of a thing.

701
00:32:37,598 --> 00:32:39,918
Speaker 5: But yeah, there may be something else he's doing that,

702
00:32:40,278 --> 00:32:42,718
Speaker 5: you know, I do think over time it is something

703
00:32:42,718 --> 00:32:44,678
Speaker 5: we could, you know, pick whether it's something subtle with.

704
00:32:44,638 --> 00:32:47,838
Speaker 6: Their glove or their hand or their shoulder, any of.

705
00:32:47,798 --> 00:32:50,798
Speaker 4: That stuff right before the pitch is wrong, before.

706
00:32:50,558 --> 00:32:53,878
Speaker 5: They're I mean absolutely, And I think people are pretty

707
00:32:53,878 --> 00:32:56,358
Speaker 5: conscious of that these days, so I think pictures are

708
00:32:56,478 --> 00:32:59,158
Speaker 5: very careful not to do that. But it's it's hard

709
00:32:59,198 --> 00:33:01,318
Speaker 5: to not do something, so you know, maybe there is

710
00:33:01,358 --> 00:33:01,918
Speaker 5: something there.

711
00:33:01,998 --> 00:33:04,918
Speaker 4: So I would what I'd know. I would want to

712
00:33:04,958 --> 00:33:09,638
Speaker 4: know from you what to do to to to never tip,

713
00:33:09,798 --> 00:33:12,118
Speaker 4: Like is there something like you remember Dempsey used to

714
00:33:12,158 --> 00:33:14,638
Speaker 4: do the thing Tommy with this glove, regulous glove.

715
00:33:14,438 --> 00:33:17,598
Speaker 2: Before Brian Dempster making a Martine exactly.

716
00:33:17,718 --> 00:33:21,678
Speaker 4: So is there somebody that somebody that is caught to

717
00:33:21,678 --> 00:33:25,278
Speaker 4: be tipping? What would be alternative answers to be able

718
00:33:25,318 --> 00:33:28,398
Speaker 4: to maintain what you're doing and just change this around

719
00:33:28,398 --> 00:33:30,318
Speaker 4: a little bit so that you do no longer tip.

720
00:33:30,518 --> 00:33:31,518
Speaker 4: That'd be interesting to me.

721
00:33:31,838 --> 00:33:32,798
Speaker 6: Yeah, one hundred percent.

722
00:33:33,038 --> 00:33:34,638
Speaker 5: And Joe, I don't know the answer that question, but

723
00:33:34,638 --> 00:33:36,478
Speaker 5: I would look at all the ways people have found

724
00:33:36,758 --> 00:33:40,798
Speaker 5: pictures tipping before to start, and you really analyze that

725
00:33:40,918 --> 00:33:43,638
Speaker 5: and then say okay, like here's all, and then brainstorm

726
00:33:43,678 --> 00:33:45,998
Speaker 5: a little bit on what other things like that might happen,

727
00:33:46,078 --> 00:33:48,838
Speaker 5: and then then crank the AIP and start looking for

728
00:33:48,878 --> 00:33:50,998
Speaker 5: that stuff and see was doing it, who's not, and

729
00:33:50,998 --> 00:33:53,558
Speaker 5: and and eventually once you have a good training set

730
00:33:53,638 --> 00:33:56,238
Speaker 5: like that where you have grant what's called ground truth

731
00:33:56,318 --> 00:34:00,038
Speaker 5: of things that pictures that were tipped, then you can

732
00:34:00,078 --> 00:34:02,118
Speaker 5: sort of teach the AI to look for tipping.

733
00:34:02,358 --> 00:34:04,078
Speaker 6: So you'd have to go through a process like that.

734
00:34:04,438 --> 00:34:06,198
Speaker 4: Would be interesting to a lot of pictures. A lot

735
00:34:06,198 --> 00:34:07,878
Speaker 4: of pitchers would love that if that were ever to

736
00:34:07,918 --> 00:34:11,158
Speaker 4: be part of your portfolio there, that would be that

737
00:34:11,158 --> 00:34:13,198
Speaker 4: they'd get on your site there and they would click

738
00:34:13,238 --> 00:34:16,758
Speaker 4: on that to being thing immediately find out am I

739
00:34:16,838 --> 00:34:17,318
Speaker 4: or am I not?

740
00:34:17,678 --> 00:34:20,758
Speaker 6: Yeah, teams too, they've asked for that. It's definitely a

741
00:34:20,798 --> 00:34:21,318
Speaker 6: hot topic.

742
00:34:21,438 --> 00:34:24,038
Speaker 3: Okay, one more picture I wanted to run by both

743
00:34:24,078 --> 00:34:26,278
Speaker 3: of you and especially Joe and how you might deal

744
00:34:26,278 --> 00:34:29,918
Speaker 3: with a pitcher like this Shota Imanaga of the Chicago Cubs.

745
00:34:31,038 --> 00:34:34,558
Speaker 3: The guys, he's got this kind of invisible fastball that

746
00:34:34,598 --> 00:34:38,438
Speaker 3: gets on people, but gives up way too many home runs, like,

747
00:34:39,198 --> 00:34:41,798
Speaker 3: you know, more than thirty this year. And when I

748
00:34:41,838 --> 00:34:43,718
Speaker 3: look at his home runs, most of them are coming

749
00:34:43,758 --> 00:34:46,478
Speaker 3: off pitches that are just middle middle. It's not like

750
00:34:46,518 --> 00:34:48,798
Speaker 3: they're hitting you know, his high heater at the top

751
00:34:48,838 --> 00:34:50,558
Speaker 3: of the rail and hitting it out and getting on

752
00:34:50,598 --> 00:34:51,078
Speaker 3: top of it.

753
00:34:51,078 --> 00:34:51,678
Speaker 2: That's hard to do.

754
00:34:51,838 --> 00:34:55,238
Speaker 3: But and then looking at your numbers, can I mean, man,

755
00:34:55,278 --> 00:34:57,078
Speaker 3: he's below average in terms of command.

756
00:34:57,678 --> 00:34:59,158
Speaker 2: What do you do with a guy like that?

757
00:34:59,878 --> 00:35:03,238
Speaker 4: Just from my perspective, the fact that he has an

758
00:35:03,238 --> 00:35:05,158
Speaker 4: invisible I think he thinks every ball is going to

759
00:35:05,198 --> 00:35:07,038
Speaker 4: be the invisible. You know, he just winds up and

760
00:35:07,038 --> 00:35:09,598
Speaker 4: he throws it. And when you're talking about bad command,

761
00:35:09,638 --> 00:35:11,598
Speaker 4: is a bad command because he hits the middle of

762
00:35:11,638 --> 00:35:13,758
Speaker 4: the play too often? Or is it bad command because

763
00:35:14,238 --> 00:35:16,518
Speaker 4: he shotgun and scatters the ball too often? What is

764
00:35:16,598 --> 00:35:20,158
Speaker 4: what is the we're talking about poor command regarding throwing

765
00:35:20,158 --> 00:35:21,598
Speaker 4: the ball he wants to Is that we're.

766
00:35:21,398 --> 00:35:23,718
Speaker 6: Saying that's what we're that's what question?

767
00:35:23,838 --> 00:35:24,038
Speaker 4: Ken?

768
00:35:24,078 --> 00:35:25,958
Speaker 6: We're measuring again against target?

769
00:35:26,038 --> 00:35:29,038
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, so if it's against target, see I watch him,

770
00:35:29,078 --> 00:35:31,198
Speaker 4: I mean it's it looks pretty straight like even on

771
00:35:31,838 --> 00:35:34,238
Speaker 4: you know, the couple of times I've watched him, and

772
00:35:34,478 --> 00:35:36,518
Speaker 4: I love the idea that he's proud of his fastball.

773
00:35:36,558 --> 00:35:39,718
Speaker 4: But I think there's there's he might be a candidate.

774
00:35:40,078 --> 00:35:41,558
Speaker 4: But he has the shoot though too, Tom, But does

775
00:35:41,598 --> 00:35:42,998
Speaker 4: he have the shoot though? Does he have the split?

776
00:35:43,078 --> 00:35:44,038
Speaker 4: He does have something.

777
00:35:43,838 --> 00:35:46,638
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, split change, Yeah, he's for me.

778
00:35:46,718 --> 00:35:49,798
Speaker 4: This it's something like the predictability there for me would

779
00:35:49,838 --> 00:35:51,238
Speaker 4: be like, first of all, what are the counts that

780
00:35:51,278 --> 00:35:53,958
Speaker 4: he's really getting smoked in if there's actually some? And

781
00:35:53,958 --> 00:35:56,038
Speaker 4: that's that's relatively easy to find out that you know,

782
00:35:56,518 --> 00:35:59,998
Speaker 4: predictability in patterns with what are he stowing in particular areas?

783
00:36:00,038 --> 00:36:03,798
Speaker 4: And and and and I would just start from there,

784
00:36:03,998 --> 00:36:08,038
Speaker 4: but don't be just when you haven't invisible. And I've

785
00:36:08,038 --> 00:36:10,158
Speaker 4: caught guys with that, they just wind up and throw

786
00:36:10,158 --> 00:36:12,438
Speaker 4: it right there, get popped up, swung and miss and

787
00:36:12,558 --> 00:36:14,238
Speaker 4: lands in your glove and you say, how the hell

788
00:36:14,238 --> 00:36:16,118
Speaker 4: did that guy miss that pitch? It was like like

789
00:36:16,198 --> 00:36:19,718
Speaker 4: Jimmy Dechay's classes. Jimmy's the announcer for the Cubs. I

790
00:36:19,758 --> 00:36:22,758
Speaker 4: caught Jimmy and Boulder Colorado, big left hander throws the

791
00:36:22,758 --> 00:36:25,078
Speaker 4: ball like right A eighty nine ninety miles an hour swinging,

792
00:36:25,118 --> 00:36:27,438
Speaker 4: Miss how and I've had Dave Schuler, I have other

793
00:36:27,478 --> 00:36:30,078
Speaker 4: guys like that that left handers that were able to

794
00:36:31,198 --> 00:36:33,558
Speaker 4: Jamie Ware. I mean, guys that it's there's got to

795
00:36:33,558 --> 00:36:35,718
Speaker 4: be maybe a lack of deception. Maybe they're seeing the

796
00:36:35,718 --> 00:36:38,398
Speaker 4: ball really well. I would like really try to go

797
00:36:38,518 --> 00:36:41,678
Speaker 4: in those particular areas to try to break it down.

798
00:36:41,678 --> 00:36:44,518
Speaker 4: But I just think that he is so much confidence

799
00:36:44,558 --> 00:36:46,598
Speaker 4: in his fastball. That's why the ball's going over the wall.

800
00:36:47,238 --> 00:36:47,438
Speaker 6: Yeah.

801
00:36:47,438 --> 00:36:49,158
Speaker 5: I mean if you have, if you have your your

802
00:36:49,198 --> 00:36:52,238
Speaker 5: commands off and the numbers that he has, you're just

803
00:36:52,318 --> 00:36:53,638
Speaker 5: leaving a lot of them over the plate. I mean

804
00:36:53,638 --> 00:36:55,558
Speaker 5: some they're all over you don't know, miss me. He

805
00:36:55,558 --> 00:36:58,038
Speaker 5: doesn't know where they're going even maybe and maybe that

806
00:36:58,118 --> 00:37:00,358
Speaker 5: helps with steps on the batter, but I don't know.

807
00:37:00,398 --> 00:37:01,798
Speaker 5: But some are going to go over the plate and

808
00:37:02,238 --> 00:37:04,198
Speaker 5: they're gonna get whack. But I would say this for

809
00:37:04,478 --> 00:37:07,078
Speaker 5: you know, how do you improve your command without a metric?

810
00:37:07,358 --> 00:37:09,518
Speaker 5: And one of the things we're offering now is a metric,

811
00:37:10,038 --> 00:37:13,838
Speaker 5: you know, objective automatically generated metric where you can go

812
00:37:13,878 --> 00:37:15,518
Speaker 5: work on it and make it get better and better

813
00:37:15,518 --> 00:37:18,158
Speaker 5: and better. And you know, if you don't have a metric,

814
00:37:18,198 --> 00:37:20,758
Speaker 5: how do you work to improve something anyway? So I

815
00:37:20,798 --> 00:37:23,878
Speaker 5: think that's an important piece also where you can objectively

816
00:37:24,078 --> 00:37:26,838
Speaker 5: check it and work on it, and especially for developing kids.

817
00:37:27,118 --> 00:37:30,838
Speaker 5: But you know, I think we've seen Chapman improve his

818
00:37:30,958 --> 00:37:34,278
Speaker 5: command over a two year periods from something that wasn't

819
00:37:34,318 --> 00:37:36,918
Speaker 5: really all that good at all too great, and it's

820
00:37:37,238 --> 00:37:39,558
Speaker 5: you see it in his results, right, So if you

821
00:37:39,598 --> 00:37:42,598
Speaker 5: work on it, you can improve it, and if you

822
00:37:42,638 --> 00:37:45,518
Speaker 5: have a great metric to check it against, then everyone

823
00:37:45,518 --> 00:37:46,198
Speaker 5: knows where we are.

824
00:37:46,238 --> 00:37:48,878
Speaker 6: So I really love it from that perspective for improvement.

825
00:37:49,638 --> 00:37:52,318
Speaker 3: Yeah, that is I think that's the most important thing

826
00:37:52,358 --> 00:37:55,278
Speaker 3: about this technology, Ken, is that it can if it

827
00:37:55,318 --> 00:37:58,558
Speaker 3: gets established, scales up and people now have a relatable,

828
00:37:58,678 --> 00:38:02,998
Speaker 3: understandable number like the command index, it can actually change baseball.

829
00:38:03,238 --> 00:38:05,438
Speaker 3: And I mean that because the radar gun did that,

830
00:38:05,678 --> 00:38:08,038
Speaker 3: and Joe, you remember when the radar gun first came

831
00:38:08,078 --> 00:38:11,638
Speaker 3: out and then about I don't know if it's ten

832
00:38:11,718 --> 00:38:14,238
Speaker 3: years ago, maybe a little bit less, when we got

833
00:38:14,278 --> 00:38:18,238
Speaker 3: the ability to track spin and pitch shaping and spinning

834
00:38:18,638 --> 00:38:21,438
Speaker 3: literally change the game. And now you watch guys throw

835
00:38:21,438 --> 00:38:24,078
Speaker 3: their Major League bullpens, especially in spring training and there's

836
00:38:24,078 --> 00:38:26,398
Speaker 3: a couple of analysts behind them with an iPad and

837
00:38:26,438 --> 00:38:29,718
Speaker 3: they're all checking their spin, and that is driving pitching.

838
00:38:30,518 --> 00:38:32,558
Speaker 3: So you went to velocity. Now it's a combination of

839
00:38:32,638 --> 00:38:35,158
Speaker 3: velocity and spin. If you can add that third element

840
00:38:35,318 --> 00:38:39,358
Speaker 3: command and after a game, somebody can say, what was

841
00:38:39,398 --> 00:38:42,718
Speaker 3: my command index for that game. Now you've got something,

842
00:38:42,758 --> 00:38:45,998
Speaker 3: because now you're encouraging guys to command the baseball, not

843
00:38:46,158 --> 00:38:48,038
Speaker 3: just try to spin it as hard as they can

844
00:38:48,158 --> 00:38:50,598
Speaker 3: and throw it as hard as they can. And I think, Joe,

845
00:38:50,678 --> 00:38:53,718
Speaker 3: it sounds like you are very much in favor of

846
00:38:53,758 --> 00:38:55,238
Speaker 3: that kind of process in baseball.

847
00:38:55,318 --> 00:38:56,678
Speaker 2: We get back to commanding the ball.

848
00:38:56,918 --> 00:38:58,758
Speaker 4: I think that's really pretty much what it had been.

849
00:38:58,878 --> 00:39:01,678
Speaker 4: I mean that was you know, the old school pitchy coaches,

850
00:39:01,678 --> 00:39:05,438
Speaker 4: whether it's Marcel Latchman, I had, Junior Coleman, mister Dick Pole,

851
00:39:05,478 --> 00:39:09,358
Speaker 4: I mean, all these really famous major league pitching coaches.

852
00:39:10,118 --> 00:39:11,878
Speaker 4: It was all about controlling command. We used to put

853
00:39:11,878 --> 00:39:14,318
Speaker 4: these springs up, you know, during spring training they put

854
00:39:14,358 --> 00:39:16,158
Speaker 4: those scrings up. I think it was an old Dodger thing.

855
00:39:16,158 --> 00:39:18,198
Speaker 4: Claude Ostein and all those dudes back in the day,

856
00:39:18,558 --> 00:39:20,278
Speaker 4: and with the strike zone and so the catcher would

857
00:39:20,278 --> 00:39:22,438
Speaker 4: sit behind the springs, and you wanted to throw the

858
00:39:22,438 --> 00:39:24,638
Speaker 4: ball within these strings, and you had the ability to

859
00:39:25,358 --> 00:39:28,238
Speaker 4: narrow it horizontally or vertically. You could narrow this thing up.

860
00:39:28,278 --> 00:39:31,038
Speaker 4: And so to really try to make find too. And

861
00:39:31,078 --> 00:39:34,558
Speaker 4: I used to catch Tommy John bullpens right and Jeff's on.

862
00:39:34,598 --> 00:39:37,038
Speaker 4: I swear to god, I couldn't sit on the plate.

863
00:39:37,078 --> 00:39:38,518
Speaker 4: They made me sit on the black to like a

864
00:39:38,518 --> 00:39:39,958
Speaker 4: half an inch or an inch off the plate because

865
00:39:39,958 --> 00:39:41,758
Speaker 4: they never wanted to throw the ball over the plate.

866
00:39:41,998 --> 00:39:44,438
Speaker 4: And these guys would hit it all day long, and

867
00:39:44,478 --> 00:39:47,678
Speaker 4: they're very successful major league pitchers. I think there's again

868
00:39:47,718 --> 00:39:52,998
Speaker 4: to go on a sliding scale to introduce or emphasize

869
00:39:53,478 --> 00:39:58,558
Speaker 4: command over just absolute velocity and spin. Just the emphasis

870
00:39:58,558 --> 00:40:00,958
Speaker 4: would be, let's start with command first and then move

871
00:40:00,998 --> 00:40:04,198
Speaker 4: into these other areas. I'd be curious, I mean, start

872
00:40:04,238 --> 00:40:06,278
Speaker 4: somewhere to try to reduce injury. I would kind of

873
00:40:06,278 --> 00:40:10,318
Speaker 4: look at that regarding let's chase throwing the ball where

874
00:40:10,358 --> 00:40:12,878
Speaker 4: we want to first. I have always thought, I mean

875
00:40:13,238 --> 00:40:16,318
Speaker 4: the definition of a major league pitcher. Marcel came up

876
00:40:16,318 --> 00:40:18,118
Speaker 4: with this and I loved it. It was like a

877
00:40:18,118 --> 00:40:20,118
Speaker 4: major league pitcher could throw a fastball for a strike

878
00:40:20,158 --> 00:40:23,718
Speaker 4: when he wants to okay fast but when he wants to,

879
00:40:23,798 --> 00:40:26,478
Speaker 4: there's times you don't want to, and there's a difference

880
00:40:26,478 --> 00:40:29,558
Speaker 4: between one. And like I said, Tommy John and Jeff Saw,

881
00:40:29,598 --> 00:40:31,238
Speaker 4: I never wanted to throw it over the play and

882
00:40:31,238 --> 00:40:34,198
Speaker 4: they were able to. So there. I think if you

883
00:40:34,278 --> 00:40:35,838
Speaker 4: arrive at that point with a young pitcher and I

884
00:40:35,838 --> 00:40:37,838
Speaker 4: would start may ball, I would move it on up.

885
00:40:37,838 --> 00:40:41,518
Speaker 4: I would start with fastball, change up. And you came

886
00:40:41,518 --> 00:40:43,958
Speaker 4: out of college, you came to my program, You're my

887
00:40:44,198 --> 00:40:46,958
Speaker 4: rookie league team. I don't care whatever you got if

888
00:40:46,958 --> 00:40:48,918
Speaker 4: you don't have a change up, let's start with that.

889
00:40:49,278 --> 00:40:50,958
Speaker 4: Here's a grip. Let's start working on a throw in

890
00:40:50,958 --> 00:40:53,758
Speaker 4: the game. We'll get to the game, but know where

891
00:40:53,758 --> 00:40:56,078
Speaker 4: your fastball is going a and then we could work

892
00:40:56,118 --> 00:40:58,838
Speaker 4: off everything else from there. And I still think that

893
00:40:58,878 --> 00:41:01,438
Speaker 4: would be the best way to hopefully get pictures to

894
00:41:01,478 --> 00:41:03,918
Speaker 4: go through the third time through the batting order more successful.

895
00:41:04,598 --> 00:41:08,158
Speaker 4: Takes some heat off, bullpins, give you other things to do,

896
00:41:08,238 --> 00:41:11,518
Speaker 4: give hitters other looks. Tonya man, when you doted up,

897
00:41:11,878 --> 00:41:13,998
Speaker 4: I look at Kyle Hendrix. My god, I saw eighty

898
00:41:14,038 --> 00:41:16,598
Speaker 4: seven just paralyzed guys, when you have that kind of

899
00:41:16,598 --> 00:41:20,198
Speaker 4: control and command, it's just a different world. And that

900
00:41:20,238 --> 00:41:22,638
Speaker 4: would be the interesting part to me, cut down on

901
00:41:22,758 --> 00:41:25,318
Speaker 4: injuries through a better method of teaching in the first.

902
00:41:25,118 --> 00:41:27,758
Speaker 3: Place, Ken, it sounds like he's speaking your language there,

903
00:41:27,798 --> 00:41:29,678
Speaker 3: because I think there's a lot of people we know

904
00:41:29,798 --> 00:41:32,598
Speaker 3: now it's established fact that there is a correlation between

905
00:41:32,638 --> 00:41:36,638
Speaker 3: increased velocity and injury risk. If we can mitigate that

906
00:41:36,838 --> 00:41:39,838
Speaker 3: by even a little bit, you know, we won't have

907
00:41:39,918 --> 00:41:43,038
Speaker 3: these incredible numbers of surgeries and days lost in terms

908
00:41:43,038 --> 00:41:46,118
Speaker 3: of injuries, especially to the elbow and the shoulder.

909
00:41:46,478 --> 00:41:49,358
Speaker 6: Yeah. I mean, I don't know if I have anything

910
00:41:49,398 --> 00:41:50,238
Speaker 6: to add to what shows said.

911
00:41:50,238 --> 00:41:52,638
Speaker 5: He said perfectly in terms of you know, getting that

912
00:41:52,678 --> 00:41:55,198
Speaker 5: focus back to command or at least balancing it out

913
00:41:55,638 --> 00:41:57,838
Speaker 5: with some of the other things. Is I think there's

914
00:41:57,918 --> 00:42:01,158
Speaker 5: huge benefits and well we'll see. I mean, humans are complicated,

915
00:42:01,238 --> 00:42:04,918
Speaker 5: so you know, we'll see what happens. But I totally agree,

916
00:42:04,918 --> 00:42:07,318
Speaker 5: like starting with command and ending with command. You think

917
00:42:07,318 --> 00:42:10,238
Speaker 5: about the beginning of your career where the speed and

918
00:42:10,278 --> 00:42:12,358
Speaker 5: the movement's gonna come you focus on, and the end

919
00:42:12,358 --> 00:42:14,278
Speaker 5: of your career where you're starting to lose the speed

920
00:42:14,518 --> 00:42:17,478
Speaker 5: that command is something you can stay and keep pitching

921
00:42:17,518 --> 00:42:20,198
Speaker 5: at that elite level for much longer if you have

922
00:42:20,318 --> 00:42:23,118
Speaker 5: command then, and just to touch on the thing that

923
00:42:23,198 --> 00:42:25,078
Speaker 5: Joe said about, you know, these guys being able to

924
00:42:25,118 --> 00:42:27,038
Speaker 5: throw a strike when they want to one hundred percent,

925
00:42:27,198 --> 00:42:31,078
Speaker 5: Like that's the problem with ball strike ratios. What these

926
00:42:31,118 --> 00:42:33,358
Speaker 5: guys they they don't always want to throw a strike

927
00:42:33,718 --> 00:42:36,158
Speaker 5: half the time they don't, and and and it's not

928
00:42:36,318 --> 00:42:38,958
Speaker 5: always in the pressure counts. I mean, yes, they want

929
00:42:38,958 --> 00:42:40,918
Speaker 5: to throw a strike more then, but they don't always

930
00:42:40,918 --> 00:42:43,078
Speaker 5: want to throw a strike even then. So we look

931
00:42:43,118 --> 00:42:46,318
Speaker 5: at at those sort of metrics of you know, walk

932
00:42:46,398 --> 00:42:49,558
Speaker 5: ratios right, like they don't correlate to performance, right because

933
00:42:49,678 --> 00:42:52,878
Speaker 5: they shouldn't. But your ability to put the ball where

934
00:42:52,918 --> 00:42:55,798
Speaker 5: you want absolutely correlates performance.

935
00:42:55,958 --> 00:42:58,398
Speaker 6: And that's what we're talking about. We're talking inches.

936
00:42:58,478 --> 00:43:00,398
Speaker 5: So you know, even with the strings show, like I

937
00:43:00,398 --> 00:43:01,998
Speaker 5: don't know how many strings you can have up there,

938
00:43:02,038 --> 00:43:04,078
Speaker 5: but you know the difference between a lead and not

939
00:43:04,118 --> 00:43:06,278
Speaker 5: a lead is a couple of inches, you know, in

940
00:43:06,358 --> 00:43:09,318
Speaker 5: terms of your accuracy. So so you really need something

941
00:43:09,318 --> 00:43:11,158
Speaker 5: with that kind of an accuracy or you're.

942
00:43:11,038 --> 00:43:13,318
Speaker 6: Not you're not helping the picture at all. You're just

943
00:43:13,318 --> 00:43:15,278
Speaker 6: wasting their time. But numbers that don't mean anything.

944
00:43:15,638 --> 00:43:17,718
Speaker 4: You know, we'll be talking about these command pictures. This

945
00:43:17,838 --> 00:43:20,918
Speaker 4: also bleeds into other components of the game. This is

946
00:43:20,918 --> 00:43:25,038
Speaker 4: where defense is important because everything right now analytically, analytically

947
00:43:25,078 --> 00:43:26,838
Speaker 4: is to miss a bat. I mean, that's what that's

948
00:43:26,878 --> 00:43:29,558
Speaker 4: what front offices want, that's what the analytical department wants,

949
00:43:29,798 --> 00:43:33,358
Speaker 4: missing bats while not in play walks. We accept the

950
00:43:33,358 --> 00:43:35,078
Speaker 4: walk if you can strike two or three guys out

951
00:43:35,118 --> 00:43:37,878
Speaker 4: in the same inning. So if you if you delve

952
00:43:37,878 --> 00:43:40,798
Speaker 4: more into the command area, which again I'm in agreement with,

953
00:43:41,158 --> 00:43:43,798
Speaker 4: you also have to really run. Prevention is a big

954
00:43:43,838 --> 00:43:47,358
Speaker 4: part of it. You have to really focus on that

955
00:43:47,478 --> 00:43:50,078
Speaker 4: too and make sure that's part of it. And then

956
00:43:50,118 --> 00:43:54,398
Speaker 4: the eventual analytical shift where it's like anything else, I mean,

957
00:43:54,478 --> 00:43:58,078
Speaker 4: when something becomes successful, analytics shifts with it talking about,

958
00:43:58,118 --> 00:44:00,038
Speaker 4: you know, the actual game and how it's played on

959
00:44:00,078 --> 00:44:02,598
Speaker 4: a daily basis. Because right now base dealing is kind

960
00:44:02,638 --> 00:44:05,558
Speaker 4: of cool with the bigger bay and the throw over rules,

961
00:44:05,598 --> 00:44:08,318
Speaker 4: all of a sudden basally is groovy. When I was

962
00:44:08,358 --> 00:44:11,278
Speaker 4: at the end of my angel Thing career there as

963
00:44:11,278 --> 00:44:13,198
Speaker 4: a manager, if you get somebody thrown out on the

964
00:44:13,198 --> 00:44:15,918
Speaker 4: basis trying to steal my god, you'd have somebody wanting

965
00:44:15,958 --> 00:44:17,878
Speaker 4: that there'd be an inquiry after the game, why was

966
00:44:17,878 --> 00:44:20,038
Speaker 4: that guy running and how why did he get thrown out?

967
00:44:20,238 --> 00:44:23,238
Speaker 4: I mean it shifts. I mean people everybody thinks analytics

968
00:44:23,278 --> 00:44:26,838
Speaker 4: are just like this perfect world where it's it's always

969
00:44:26,838 --> 00:44:29,398
Speaker 4: static and the same and it's it's infallible. It's not true.

970
00:44:29,438 --> 00:44:32,398
Speaker 4: It's it's fluid, and every group has their own fluid

971
00:44:32,438 --> 00:44:37,158
Speaker 4: method of analyzing things. So with command, make sure you

972
00:44:37,278 --> 00:44:39,598
Speaker 4: got defenders, and make sure the defense is really good

973
00:44:39,638 --> 00:44:42,678
Speaker 4: up the middle. Positioning would be really important with that also,

974
00:44:43,198 --> 00:44:46,838
Speaker 4: and what we're looking for and our biases or whatever

975
00:44:46,878 --> 00:44:49,478
Speaker 4: you want to call them. Our analytics have to shift

976
00:44:49,478 --> 00:44:52,678
Speaker 4: in order to have an organization want to do something

977
00:44:52,758 --> 00:44:53,118
Speaker 4: like that.

978
00:44:53,438 --> 00:44:55,318
Speaker 2: Well, Ken, this has been fascinating.

979
00:44:55,398 --> 00:44:59,278
Speaker 3: I can imagine, hopefully someday soon as a broadcaster that

980
00:44:59,438 --> 00:45:02,398
Speaker 3: I would have a command index at my availability, you know,

981
00:45:02,438 --> 00:45:06,678
Speaker 3: an easy relatable number to just identify this guy's above average,

982
00:45:06,678 --> 00:45:09,598
Speaker 3: this guys below average, because we do that with velocity,

983
00:45:09,878 --> 00:45:12,838
Speaker 3: and you know, out of context, we know that's not everything.

984
00:45:13,638 --> 00:45:16,158
Speaker 3: Sometimes we put up the RPMs, the spin rates up there.

985
00:45:16,158 --> 00:45:18,358
Speaker 3: I don't see why we shouldn't have something like this,

986
00:45:19,758 --> 00:45:23,078
Speaker 3: and I can see that happening probably sooner rather than later.

987
00:45:23,318 --> 00:45:25,038
Speaker 6: Yeah, we'd love nothing more.

988
00:45:25,038 --> 00:45:26,878
Speaker 5: And also, you know you look at the little pitch

989
00:45:26,958 --> 00:45:29,718
Speaker 5: zone and it's this blank square and a ball shows up, Well,

990
00:45:29,838 --> 00:45:30,678
Speaker 5: why not show.

991
00:45:30,438 --> 00:45:31,798
Speaker 6: The intended target as well?

992
00:45:32,118 --> 00:45:34,478
Speaker 5: I think that would be really interesting to viewers to

993
00:45:34,518 --> 00:45:36,878
Speaker 5: see that where you know, if they can see where

994
00:45:36,918 --> 00:45:40,118
Speaker 5: the intended target was, and you know, are they you

995
00:45:40,158 --> 00:45:42,798
Speaker 5: know where they're I don't know how you would show it,

996
00:45:42,838 --> 00:45:44,518
Speaker 5: but like you said, where are they on their index?

997
00:45:44,518 --> 00:45:45,158
Speaker 6: Above average?

998
00:45:45,198 --> 00:45:45,958
Speaker 4: Below average?

999
00:45:46,078 --> 00:45:47,118
Speaker 6: Half one? Did they hit it?

1000
00:45:47,518 --> 00:45:50,158
Speaker 5: And you know you look at that with speed, movement command,

1001
00:45:50,278 --> 00:45:52,718
Speaker 5: all those things, Now you know you'd be put in

1002
00:45:52,758 --> 00:45:53,078
Speaker 5: the mix.

1003
00:45:53,278 --> 00:45:54,878
Speaker 6: I don't know fantasy players would love it.

1004
00:45:54,958 --> 00:45:58,278
Speaker 5: Any enthusiasts of the game, I think would want to

1005
00:45:58,398 --> 00:46:01,398
Speaker 5: understand that that piece of it if we can clearly

1006
00:46:01,398 --> 00:46:04,318
Speaker 5: communicate it in as simple, easy to digest fans, which

1007
00:46:04,358 --> 00:46:05,398
Speaker 5: is kind of what the index is for.

1008
00:46:05,518 --> 00:46:09,038
Speaker 4: See baseball butterfly flaps its swings and conquered Massachusetts and

1009
00:46:09,078 --> 00:46:11,678
Speaker 4: all of a sudden there's this huge shift out the

1010
00:46:11,838 --> 00:46:12,958
Speaker 4: entire industry.

1011
00:46:13,678 --> 00:46:16,918
Speaker 2: The infinite sky effect. Get ready for it, folks, Ken,

1012
00:46:16,918 --> 00:46:17,878
Speaker 2: this has been fascinating.

1013
00:46:17,998 --> 00:46:20,718
Speaker 3: Really appreciate your time and wish you nothing but the

1014
00:46:20,758 --> 00:46:24,278
Speaker 3: best of continued success with infinite Skuy and Ai in baseball.

1015
00:46:24,318 --> 00:46:26,838
Speaker 5: Thanks so much, Thank you love being here and great

1016
00:46:26,878 --> 00:46:28,518
Speaker 5: to meet you guys, and thanks so much for having us.

1017
00:46:28,958 --> 00:46:30,798
Speaker 4: That was a pleasure, Ken, Thank you appreciate it.

1018
00:46:42,878 --> 00:46:45,838
Speaker 2: Welcome back to the Book of Joe and Joe. You know,

1019
00:46:46,038 --> 00:46:47,998
Speaker 2: I've talked to him before, but it's fascinating.

1020
00:46:47,998 --> 00:46:51,038
Speaker 3: I love what they're doing here, and I really appreciate

1021
00:46:51,118 --> 00:46:54,558
Speaker 3: the way he's able to present, let's face it, cutting

1022
00:46:54,638 --> 00:46:56,598
Speaker 3: edge technology in very simple terms.

1023
00:46:57,158 --> 00:47:00,998
Speaker 4: Yeah. I think in order to really attract a complete audience,

1024
00:47:01,678 --> 00:47:02,918
Speaker 4: you have to be able to do it the way

1025
00:47:02,918 --> 00:47:04,958
Speaker 4: he seems to be doing it. I just the first

1026
00:47:04,998 --> 00:47:07,638
Speaker 4: time I had an exchange with him, really loved his

1027
00:47:07,718 --> 00:47:10,838
Speaker 4: bedside manner. I think if he's the guy walking in

1028
00:47:10,878 --> 00:47:12,958
Speaker 4: a room trying to sell that product to a group

1029
00:47:14,118 --> 00:47:16,438
Speaker 4: either the non believers and of course the believers, I

1030
00:47:16,438 --> 00:47:18,758
Speaker 4: think he's the right guy for the job. I think

1031
00:47:18,758 --> 00:47:22,358
Speaker 4: he sees both sides, and he understands how to bring

1032
00:47:22,398 --> 00:47:26,398
Speaker 4: the technology together with humanity in regards to making a

1033
00:47:26,438 --> 00:47:29,798
Speaker 4: real useful product, and so Yeah, I was. I loved it,

1034
00:47:29,878 --> 00:47:32,318
Speaker 4: absolutely love that. He kind of inspired me this morning.

1035
00:47:32,598 --> 00:47:32,798
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1036
00:47:33,038 --> 00:47:35,318
Speaker 3: Very cool to hear too that he does have an

1037
00:47:35,358 --> 00:47:38,078
Speaker 3: advisory board of former players to get that with the

1038
00:47:38,198 --> 00:47:39,998
Speaker 3: other side of it, that it's not just a math

1039
00:47:40,038 --> 00:47:41,518
Speaker 3: equation that we're dealing with here.

1040
00:47:41,558 --> 00:47:44,238
Speaker 4: Correct. I love it, I know, seriously, he's he's I

1041
00:47:44,238 --> 00:47:47,238
Speaker 4: think they got the right schematic working right there. I

1042
00:47:47,238 --> 00:47:49,318
Speaker 4: think they just keep building off that, and they just

1043
00:47:49,478 --> 00:47:52,598
Speaker 4: keep this, you know, this approach where they don't know everything,

1044
00:47:52,598 --> 00:47:55,758
Speaker 4: but we're trying to learn everything, and they include everybody.

1045
00:47:55,798 --> 00:47:56,718
Speaker 4: I think it's wonderful.

1046
00:47:56,958 --> 00:47:58,878
Speaker 3: It's just an amazing concept to me that they can

1047
00:47:58,918 --> 00:48:02,398
Speaker 3: take just as I could say, normal video. There's so

1048
00:48:02,478 --> 00:48:05,078
Speaker 3: much of it out there and figure out all kinds

1049
00:48:05,078 --> 00:48:09,118
Speaker 3: of things, including betspeed, betspeed ground forces, that the picture

1050
00:48:09,118 --> 00:48:14,318
Speaker 3: where the battery uses torque reaction forces. It's just we're

1051
00:48:14,438 --> 00:48:17,078
Speaker 3: entering a whole new era when it comes to being

1052
00:48:17,078 --> 00:48:18,518
Speaker 3: able to use information.

1053
00:48:18,598 --> 00:48:19,718
Speaker 2: We've had a lot of information.

1054
00:48:20,678 --> 00:48:24,158
Speaker 3: AI is now compressing all that information and weren't learning

1055
00:48:24,198 --> 00:48:24,838
Speaker 3: a lot faster.

1056
00:48:25,318 --> 00:48:28,078
Speaker 4: I love all of that, and I still insist on

1057
00:48:28,078 --> 00:48:33,038
Speaker 4: one in my own way, just make sure we incorporate

1058
00:48:33,078 --> 00:48:35,878
Speaker 4: it with tried and true eyeballs and stuff like that.

1059
00:48:35,998 --> 00:48:39,038
Speaker 4: Just don't just don't get one sided in our opinions

1060
00:48:39,078 --> 00:48:44,558
Speaker 4: with this. Keep it human. Absolutely, incorporate all the new

1061
00:48:44,638 --> 00:48:47,318
Speaker 4: stuff coming on, no question, but keep it human while

1062
00:48:47,318 --> 00:48:47,838
Speaker 4: you're doing it.

1063
00:48:48,318 --> 00:48:50,238
Speaker 2: Well, that could be our final thought of the day.

1064
00:48:50,398 --> 00:48:52,838
Speaker 2: Keep it human. I really really like that, Joe.

1065
00:48:52,878 --> 00:48:55,958
Speaker 3: But I knowing you, I know you've got something else

1066
00:48:55,998 --> 00:48:57,798
Speaker 3: to bring us home on this edition of the Book

1067
00:48:57,798 --> 00:48:58,158
Speaker 3: of Joe.

1068
00:48:58,398 --> 00:49:01,678
Speaker 4: But we got it. We got it. Johann Wolfgang Wolfgang

1069
00:49:01,798 --> 00:49:04,958
Speaker 4: von Gerta. I think I've used him a while ago,

1070
00:49:05,038 --> 00:49:07,558
Speaker 4: but I don't even know. I read this years ago

1071
00:49:07,598 --> 00:49:10,678
Speaker 4: and I just popped this morning and it's pretty much

1072
00:49:11,398 --> 00:49:14,678
Speaker 4: but we're talking about today again. And he said, whatever

1073
00:49:14,718 --> 00:49:18,838
Speaker 4: you can do or dream, you can begin it. Boldness

1074
00:49:18,878 --> 00:49:23,358
Speaker 4: has genius, power and magic in it. I love that.

1075
00:49:23,678 --> 00:49:26,438
Speaker 3: That was that's going way back in the time machine there,

1076
00:49:26,478 --> 00:49:29,158
Speaker 3: but it's so applicable to any era exactly.

1077
00:49:29,198 --> 00:49:31,078
Speaker 2: I mean, boldness, go for it.

1078
00:49:31,398 --> 00:49:35,078
Speaker 4: Yeah, power genius, it's genius, has got definite power and

1079
00:49:35,118 --> 00:49:39,438
Speaker 4: there's magic involved in it. And again, it's just when

1080
00:49:39,438 --> 00:49:41,278
Speaker 4: you come to something new like this, you have to

1081
00:49:41,318 --> 00:49:44,878
Speaker 4: appeal to everybody, you know, I ha, this is this

1082
00:49:45,078 --> 00:49:48,758
Speaker 4: was my argument back when when again mental skills, sports psychology,

1083
00:49:48,798 --> 00:49:50,278
Speaker 4: whatever you want to call it, came on board. That

1084
00:49:50,358 --> 00:49:55,238
Speaker 4: was early eighties. Doug Larish, Uh it was he He

1085
00:49:55,278 --> 00:49:58,558
Speaker 4: was a doctor at the Arizona State University. His son

1086
00:49:58,718 --> 00:50:03,878
Speaker 4: played for the Tigers. It was a Larish gosh. Anyways,

1087
00:50:04,158 --> 00:50:07,118
Speaker 4: he was a professor. Laris was a first basement for

1088
00:50:07,158 --> 00:50:09,398
Speaker 4: the Tigers. Had some pop, but he was like he

1089
00:50:09,478 --> 00:50:11,358
Speaker 4: came on board, and I'm telling you what. He walked

1090
00:50:11,358 --> 00:50:14,438
Speaker 4: into a meeting with our coaching staff, minor league coaching staff,

1091
00:50:14,478 --> 00:50:17,358
Speaker 4: and wow, wes he left the room. The vitriol was

1092
00:50:17,398 --> 00:50:21,118
Speaker 4: spewing everywhere, and then along came I mean really dirty,

1093
00:50:21,158 --> 00:50:25,078
Speaker 4: and then here comes Kenny Reviza, not so dirty because

1094
00:50:25,078 --> 00:50:27,638
Speaker 4: he was supported by Marcell and even to a certain

1095
00:50:27,678 --> 00:50:30,958
Speaker 4: extent by Jean Gene. Walcke even understood the value there.

1096
00:50:31,238 --> 00:50:33,318
Speaker 4: But you know, you got to keep moving through these

1097
00:50:33,758 --> 00:50:36,518
Speaker 4: moments to the point where it's kind of mainstream. Right now,

1098
00:50:36,518 --> 00:50:40,518
Speaker 4: everybody has their own little sidebar there with the the

1099
00:50:40,558 --> 00:50:46,118
Speaker 4: different kind of mental skills. Golfers everybody, baseball organizations, basketball, football,

1100
00:50:46,118 --> 00:50:49,238
Speaker 4: everybody has that now. But it has to start somewhere

1101
00:50:49,278 --> 00:50:51,318
Speaker 4: and it has, it's going to be met with resistance,

1102
00:50:51,838 --> 00:50:55,198
Speaker 4: normally by the group that has it down versus the

1103
00:50:55,278 --> 00:50:57,878
Speaker 4: group that's you know, wanting to add to because they've

1104
00:50:57,878 --> 00:51:01,318
Speaker 4: been motivated by everything they've been watching that you get motivated.

1105
00:51:01,358 --> 00:51:03,878
Speaker 4: How do I make this better? These are my skills,

1106
00:51:03,718 --> 00:51:07,438
Speaker 4: is what I'm able to do. How do I weset

1107
00:51:07,478 --> 00:51:09,998
Speaker 4: this in a way? Probably monetarily too, but that's fine

1108
00:51:10,758 --> 00:51:14,198
Speaker 4: and eventually becomes part of the fabric. And that's what

1109
00:51:14,238 --> 00:51:17,518
Speaker 4: Gerta was talking about. Boldness has genius, power, magic in it,

1110
00:51:17,758 --> 00:51:18,358
Speaker 4: and I love.

1111
00:51:18,238 --> 00:51:22,278
Speaker 3: That great stuff. Joe really appreciate. Great way to end

1112
00:51:22,318 --> 00:51:23,958
Speaker 3: this edition of the Book of Joe. The next time

1113
00:51:23,998 --> 00:51:26,238
Speaker 3: we talk, we may be talking about the Baseball Hall

1114
00:51:26,238 --> 00:51:27,678
Speaker 3: of Fame vote coming up next week.

1115
00:51:27,718 --> 00:51:30,078
Speaker 2: Cool to see you next time. Thanks all right, Tommy,

1116
00:51:30,078 --> 00:51:30,398
Speaker 2: thank you.

1117
00:51:38,438 --> 00:51:41,638
Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

1118
00:51:41,878 --> 00:51:46,758
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1119
00:51:46,998 --> 00:51:48,758
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.