1 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,800 Speaker 1: Welcome to tech Stuff, a production from I Heart Radio. 2 00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 1: Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host, 3 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:17,599 Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer with iHeart Radio and 4 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:19,640 Speaker 1: I love all things tech and it is time for 5 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:24,320 Speaker 1: a classic episode of tech Stuff. This episode originally aired 6 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:29,319 Speaker 1: on November two, thousand thirteen. It is titled Sniffing Out 7 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:32,800 Speaker 1: skunk Works Part One, which I guess is a hint 8 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:35,199 Speaker 1: of what next week's classic episode is going to be. 9 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:39,599 Speaker 1: Skunk Works is a fun little catch all phrase these 10 00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 1: days for secret R and D facilities within different companies, 11 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:50,159 Speaker 1: although it originally had a very specific designation, let's listen 12 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 1: in it's people given the freedom. This is black ops 13 00:00:57,920 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 1: kind of things that like the X Files really and 14 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 1: was talking about. Yeah, so, but it can be anything, right, 15 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:05,920 Speaker 1: Like we've got another episode that we just did, the 16 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:08,880 Speaker 1: Google Loon, which really that's part of Google X, which 17 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:10,880 Speaker 1: in a way is kind of a skunk works for Google. 18 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:14,839 Speaker 1: It's top secret, super advanced research. Perhaps less top secret 19 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:17,880 Speaker 1: than the stuff that Lockheed skunk Works has been working on, 20 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:20,480 Speaker 1: because they tend to be working on contracts for the 21 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:23,840 Speaker 1: US government, yes, and specifically the military exactly. So We're 22 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 1: talking about stuff that is, at least on some level, 23 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:32,640 Speaker 1: meant to protect people rights, meant to protect real human lives, 24 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 1: and therefore secrecy is important to maintain that. Before we 25 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:38,759 Speaker 1: get into skunk works, we really need to just give 26 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:43,000 Speaker 1: a quick overview of Lockheed Martin. Now, Lockheed Martin as 27 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:46,120 Speaker 1: an entity is relatively recent the past couple of decades, 28 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:49,600 Speaker 1: but both Lockheed and Martin have existed since the beginning 29 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 1: of the century. Yeah, nineteen twelve August sixteen, that's when 30 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:57,640 Speaker 1: Glenn L. Martin, who was a pilot and someone who 31 00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:00,880 Speaker 1: would who built his own planes, had his first flight 32 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 1: back in nineteen o nine, but in nineteen twelve, that's 33 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:06,520 Speaker 1: when he formed the Glenn L. Martin Company in Los 34 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:10,080 Speaker 1: Angeles and he was building planes there. On December nineteenth, 35 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:14,959 Speaker 1: nineteen twelve, two brothers Alan and Malcolm Lockheed, who also 36 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:17,640 Speaker 1: were in the process of building their own aircraft, although 37 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:20,799 Speaker 1: they wouldn't have their first flight until nineteen thirteen, they 38 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 1: founded the Alco Hydro Aeroplane Company, which later they decided 39 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:28,800 Speaker 1: to call the Lockheed Aircraft Company UM. And they were 40 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 1: really specializing early on in building fast sea planes that 41 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:39,359 Speaker 1: established many speed and distance records for overwater flights. So, uh, 42 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:45,079 Speaker 1: these guys all were at the very beginning. We're talking 43 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 1: like airplanes had barely existed when these companies started making stuff, 44 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 1: not fall out of the sky, right And uh So 45 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:54,520 Speaker 1: it's funny. I like, I was reading up on some 46 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:56,880 Speaker 1: of the engineers, and I kept coming across names that 47 00:02:56,919 --> 00:03:01,120 Speaker 1: I recognized, like Donald Douglas and James McDonald. Anyone who's 48 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:03,280 Speaker 1: flown a lot starts to recognize these names because we 49 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:06,720 Speaker 1: have aircraft named after them. Um, and both companies were 50 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:13,920 Speaker 1: absolutely instrumental in in defining what the early airplane industry was. 51 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:17,959 Speaker 1: And also they were really instrumental in helping the US 52 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:23,160 Speaker 1: military get its place in an error combat. Right Without 53 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:25,519 Speaker 1: Without the engineers who would come out of these companies, 54 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:27,800 Speaker 1: I don't think that we would have done as well 55 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:32,359 Speaker 1: in um several of the wars that we've participated in. Yeah, 56 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:34,840 Speaker 1: not to mention just commercial flight, because a lot of 57 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 1: the developments that we would have coming to the military 58 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 1: flights would end up being used in commercial aspects. Now, 59 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 1: when we talk about skunk works, were mostly talking about 60 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 1: military because it's really the top secret stuff. Uh, And 61 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 1: we'll get more into that before we get into get 62 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 1: that far, we should talk about some other early stuff 63 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:57,560 Speaker 1: at Lockheed. For example, in nineteen thirty, Lockheed built a 64 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 1: prototype two seater pursuit air craft fighter called the XP 65 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:06,120 Speaker 1: nine hundred, and the US military ended up purchasing the 66 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 1: prototype and redesignated it the y P twenty four, and 67 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 1: eventually they ordered five why one P twenty four fighters 68 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:18,560 Speaker 1: and four why one A nine attack aircraft. Now here's 69 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:21,400 Speaker 1: the fun thing about this podcast. Y'all gonna be lettle 70 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:25,120 Speaker 1: letters and numbers. It's it's pretty unavoidable. I I think 71 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 1: that probably what's going to happen is Jonathan is going 72 00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 1: to read those out. I am going to say the 73 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 1: nice nickname that someone has come up with these things, 74 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:33,919 Speaker 1: and then we will proceed to call it that nickname 75 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 1: forever and ever and ever. Right, And I don't have 76 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:37,880 Speaker 1: a nickname for these, so I'm just calling them Bob. 77 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:42,240 Speaker 1: Bob was never actually built. Because here's the thing that 78 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:46,200 Speaker 1: so the U. S Military had ordered aircraft from Lockheed, 79 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 1: but there was something else that happened right around nineteen 80 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:51,680 Speaker 1: little thing called the Great Depression, which, by the way, guys, 81 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:54,799 Speaker 1: wasn't so great, pretty pretty crappy, No it's a pretty 82 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:57,760 Speaker 1: crappy depression. It was huge F minus would not would 83 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:01,920 Speaker 1: not buy from again, No, no, yes, do not recommend um. Yeah. 84 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 1: So great depression obviously was a devastating economic global economic disaster. Yeah. 85 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:12,159 Speaker 1: And Luckheed itself would go into bankruptcy in ninety two, 86 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:14,960 Speaker 1: they go into bankruptcy. They were only bankrupt for five 87 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:18,040 Speaker 1: whole days. After that, a group of investors kind of 88 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:19,920 Speaker 1: swooped in and safe from, didn't it. Yep, yep. They 89 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:23,039 Speaker 1: poured enough money to keep the company going. But those 90 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 1: five days, I mean, the fact that Lockeed had been 91 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 1: struggling so for so long and then had finally gone 92 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:30,520 Speaker 1: into bankruptcy had done a lot of damage. And so 93 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:33,960 Speaker 1: that that plan to build those early aircraft for the 94 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:37,359 Speaker 1: military fell through. So that would not be the first 95 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 1: aircraft order that Lockheed would really fulfill for the military. 96 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:44,800 Speaker 1: But it wasn't too much longer after that that they 97 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 1: would manage to do it. Seven. Uh. There was an 98 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:52,920 Speaker 1: important team led by how Hibberd and assisted by someone 99 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 1: who will become incredibly important in this podcast one, Clarence 100 00:05:56,279 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 1: Kelly Johnson. Yeah, and they were designing a new type 101 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 1: a fighter using twin engines. Called the XP thirty eight, 102 00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:06,359 Speaker 1: which eventually would be called the P thirty eight Lightning, 103 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:09,920 Speaker 1: and it is awesome. It's been called the most maneuverable 104 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 1: and furthermore, the most beautiful plane in the Allied Forces 105 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 1: and in what would become the Allied Forces in World 106 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:17,839 Speaker 1: War Two. It was if you've never seen a picture 107 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:20,360 Speaker 1: of this, you need to look for the the P 108 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:25,480 Speaker 1: thirty eight Lightning. Uh. It is is a particularly striking design. 109 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:28,240 Speaker 1: It's it's these kind of jets for kids who are 110 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:31,040 Speaker 1: my age. I'm gonna show my age here in second, 111 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 1: the kids my age who grew up in the realm 112 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:36,200 Speaker 1: of G. I. Joe. And that was a big cartoon 113 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:38,120 Speaker 1: on television. If you look at the law of the 114 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:40,520 Speaker 1: vehicle designs from G. I. Joe you can see a 115 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:44,560 Speaker 1: lot of it has has drawn inspiration from these early aircraft, 116 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 1: these very classic things, right. Um. Furthermore, it was an 117 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:50,280 Speaker 1: impressive feed for the time, capable of speeds of four 118 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:53,920 Speaker 1: miles per hour, which is about six per hour. Yeah, 119 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:57,279 Speaker 1: it's pretty fast for the for it's time. Obviously, aircraft 120 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:00,680 Speaker 1: today leave that in the dust. But right we're still 121 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:04,360 Speaker 1: talking about engines that use moving parts and not turbines. 122 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:07,479 Speaker 1: We're talking propellers. Yeah, yeah, this this is before the 123 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 1: jet era. So eight, Lockheed had the Model fourteen Super Electra, 124 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 1: which was a plane that ended up breaking the speed 125 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:18,679 Speaker 1: record for circling the globe. It only took three days, 126 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 1: nineteen hours and fourteen minutes to get all the way 127 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:23,840 Speaker 1: around the Earth. And uh yeah, and of course it 128 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:27,880 Speaker 1: was piloted by a famous crazy guy, right, Howard Hughes. 129 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:31,320 Speaker 1: Howard Hughes. It's got to be difficult piloting and electra 130 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:33,920 Speaker 1: when you've got boxes on your hands and feet the 131 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:36,240 Speaker 1: whole time, and you know, especially if you don't want 132 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 1: to upset the jars of urine that you have in 133 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 1: the back. Howard Hughes was crazy, y'all. I imagine he 134 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 1: did not bring the jars. But I actually think this 135 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 1: was I don't imagine that that was actually the same. 136 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure that by he he wasn't quite uh 137 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:55,120 Speaker 1: showing the the real symptoms of his later kind of 138 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 1: disturbing behavior. You know, he became a hermit, a recluse, 139 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:03,120 Speaker 1: but that was later on. I think he was still, 140 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 1: you know, pretty much had it together at that point. 141 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:09,120 Speaker 1: At any rate. In three um, that's that's when we're 142 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:13,000 Speaker 1: going to really get started on these big military contracts. Right. Yeah, 143 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:15,680 Speaker 1: that's when the US Army Air Corps, which was the 144 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 1: predecessor for the United States Air Force, decided to ask 145 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 1: for a new jet fighter and they kind of put 146 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 1: out the word a jet fighter period. I mean, okay, 147 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:27,760 Speaker 1: that the thing is is that previously the Army had 148 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 1: kind of rejected development of these propellerless jet engines in 149 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:33,840 Speaker 1: the thirties because they didn't think it could be done 150 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:36,360 Speaker 1: until the Germans went and did it, right, and then 151 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 1: they said, well, you know what, we need some of 152 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:41,200 Speaker 1: let's do some of those things. So they kind of 153 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:44,920 Speaker 1: put out the request for a proposal, asking various companies 154 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:49,360 Speaker 1: to put forth their their proposed solution to this, and 155 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:51,840 Speaker 1: Lockeed wanted to throw its hat in the ring, and 156 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:55,720 Speaker 1: they decided that the best way to to innovate quickly 157 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 1: would be to create a special division within Lockheed that 158 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 1: was not going to have to answer to the corporate 159 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:06,880 Speaker 1: level at the same kind of bureaucratic process that everyone 160 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:08,840 Speaker 1: else had to write and that would wind up being 161 00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:14,959 Speaker 1: the basis of the skunk Works ideology for forever until now. Right. So, 162 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 1: originally it was called, you know, the official official name 163 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 1: is the Lockheed Advanced Development Projects and then later it 164 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:25,319 Speaker 1: was renamed officially to Advanced Development Programs a d P. 165 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:30,680 Speaker 1: But it's official nickname, which like we said, it's it's trademarked. 166 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 1: It's got a logo is of course, skunk Works. And 167 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 1: the logo, by the way, is a skunk. It's it's 168 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:39,280 Speaker 1: the cutest little skunk that has ever adorned machines war 169 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:42,960 Speaker 1: It's just about almost as cute as flour from Bambi, 170 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:46,600 Speaker 1: but not quite but close. And so you might wonder, 171 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:50,120 Speaker 1: why the heck would they be called skunk Works? Where's 172 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:52,600 Speaker 1: that name come from? Okay, So the story goes that 173 00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:55,320 Speaker 1: when when this division was first started up, they you know, 174 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:58,160 Speaker 1: it was wartime, Lockheed did not have any room on 175 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:01,280 Speaker 1: their main floors for this new division. So they started up, 176 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:06,000 Speaker 1: uh Mr Clarence Kelly Johnson UM bought a circus tent 177 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:08,960 Speaker 1: and set it up somewhere like I imagine, in a 178 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 1: parking lot on the property of this facility and UM 179 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 1: and it happened to be next to a plastics manufacturing 180 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:17,839 Speaker 1: plant which was really quite stinky yep. And so that 181 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 1: stinky odor ended up completely saturating that circus tent, making 182 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 1: it a very smelly place. And you know, but but 183 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:28,840 Speaker 1: it was all very secretive. You know. All the projects 184 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:30,840 Speaker 1: that they were working on are really the one project, 185 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 1: this jet engine project that they were working on. It 186 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:35,400 Speaker 1: couldn't be talked about. And so they were told when 187 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:38,319 Speaker 1: they answered phones to to not say what they were 188 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:41,440 Speaker 1: doing or give any kind of indication. And supposedly when 189 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:45,440 Speaker 1: one engineer answered a phone, he he made this joke. 190 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:48,160 Speaker 1: And and this joke is a little bit out of 191 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:51,800 Speaker 1: my reach personally, having never read the comic strip Little Abner, 192 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:55,040 Speaker 1: Um this this is one of those newspaper comics from 193 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:58,400 Speaker 1: the time. Um. But apparently in in this comic strip 194 00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 1: there was something called the skunk Work. Yes s k 195 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:05,120 Speaker 1: o in k. It was a kind of a playful 196 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 1: misspelling of skunk because it's it was a couple of 197 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:12,839 Speaker 1: country bumpkins who ran this um this this uh still 198 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 1: well it's not even a still really, because it wasn't 199 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:18,320 Speaker 1: moonshine they were making. They were making Kickapoo juice, and 200 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:21,880 Speaker 1: Kickapoo juice was made out of pretty much anything they 201 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:23,520 Speaker 1: could get their hands on, and it was supposed to 202 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:26,600 Speaker 1: be the most including skunks up doing, including skunks moose. 203 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:29,320 Speaker 1: The moose were very popular because they would say lacks body, 204 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:31,560 Speaker 1: so they would go knock a body unconscious to throw 205 00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:34,640 Speaker 1: it into the mix. And uh yeah, kickapoo juice was 206 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:38,520 Speaker 1: supposed to be the most powerful alcohol. And dog Patch. 207 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 1: Dog Patch, by the way, is the location where Little 208 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:44,640 Speaker 1: Abner takes place. Okay, alright, but but so so this 209 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:47,360 Speaker 1: engineer answered the phone like like, hello, this is Skunk 210 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:50,400 Speaker 1: Works because it was stucky and and it's stuck and 211 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:54,440 Speaker 1: and eventually, um, I believe after the Little Abner lawyers 212 00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:58,240 Speaker 1: gave them a call, they changed it officially to Skunk Works. Yeah, 213 00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:01,960 Speaker 1: so that would happen later. That was happened later. They 214 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:06,000 Speaker 1: so they started trying to develop a jet plane based 215 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 1: around a jet engine that had was not developed at Lockheed. 216 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:11,120 Speaker 1: In fact, it was it was developed by the British. 217 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:16,280 Speaker 1: It's called the Goblin. And before they really got down 218 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 1: to designing this, Kelly came out. Kelly Johnson came out 219 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 1: and kind of laid down the law. He sort of 220 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:25,360 Speaker 1: came up with a philosophy. He was thirty three years 221 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:27,400 Speaker 1: old at the time, which is just incredible to me. Yeah, 222 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:32,040 Speaker 1: it's a young man who comes up with fourteen guiding principles, rules, 223 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 1: and practices are what they're called. And we're not gonna 224 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:37,280 Speaker 1: read out all fourteen, but I've got six of them 225 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:41,120 Speaker 1: I would like to. Yeah. Yeah, So they're this pretty 226 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:43,520 Speaker 1: much is just kind of the overview of how skunk 227 00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 1: Works business gets done in order for them to do 228 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:49,600 Speaker 1: it expediently at the quality they wanted. So number one 229 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:53,160 Speaker 1: was the skunk Works manager must be delegated practically complete 230 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:55,920 Speaker 1: control of his program in all aspects. He should report 231 00:12:55,920 --> 00:13:00,200 Speaker 1: to a division president or higher, meaning that Kelly wanted 232 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:02,000 Speaker 1: to make sure that he had the authority to make 233 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 1: the decisions he needed to make in order to deliver 234 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:08,760 Speaker 1: upon these incredibly lucrative contracts and uh. And he felt 235 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:11,680 Speaker 1: that if he had to dance around all these corporate levels, 236 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:14,560 Speaker 1: it would slow things down and they would lose. So 237 00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 1: he said, we can't have that. So that's rule number one. Uh, 238 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:19,600 Speaker 1: we'll skip over a couple of the rule number three. 239 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:22,080 Speaker 1: He's the number of people having any connection with the 240 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:25,520 Speaker 1: project must be restricted in an almost vicious manner. Use 241 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:28,960 Speaker 1: a small number of good people ten to twenty compared 242 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:32,640 Speaker 1: to the so called normal systems. So these are really small, 243 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:36,079 Speaker 1: nimble teams, and that was important for multiple reasons. One again, 244 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:37,960 Speaker 1: he wanted to be able to move quickly, and the 245 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:40,480 Speaker 1: more voices you have than you know you might have, 246 00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:45,800 Speaker 1: and it just slows everything down. And also because these 247 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 1: projects were top secret, it's a lot easier to keep 248 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:50,319 Speaker 1: a secret if you keep the number of people who 249 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:53,480 Speaker 1: know it to a small minimum. Yeah, i'll tell you. You 250 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:56,480 Speaker 1: You tell like twenty five people a secret, that secret 251 00:13:56,559 --> 00:13:58,040 Speaker 1: is going to get out eventually. But if you tell 252 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:00,440 Speaker 1: two thousand, five hundred people that secret, that secret, they 253 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:01,920 Speaker 1: might as well not even make the secret in the 254 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:04,320 Speaker 1: first place. That's why I don't tell anyone my secrets, 255 00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 1: especially podcasts. He can't trust us. Yeah, i'll tell you 256 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:10,720 Speaker 1: as a secret. Number five is there must be a 257 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:13,320 Speaker 1: minimum number of reports required, but important work must be 258 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:16,320 Speaker 1: recorded thoroughly. Again, this was to cut down the bureaucratic 259 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:19,400 Speaker 1: approach that I didn't have to keep on making reports 260 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:21,720 Speaker 1: over and over, taking time away from actually doing the work. 261 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 1: But he did say that it's important that we record 262 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:28,920 Speaker 1: what we do because accountability still has to be maintained. 263 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:32,080 Speaker 1: You can't just have no accountability whatsoever. That would be 264 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:36,320 Speaker 1: a disaster as well. Number twelve, there must be mutual 265 00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:39,720 Speaker 1: trust between the military project organization and the contractor, the 266 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:42,240 Speaker 1: very close cooperation in liaison on a day to day 267 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 1: basis that this cuts down misunderstanding and correspondence to an 268 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 1: absolute minimum, again cutting out all that interference. Number thirteen. 269 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:53,840 Speaker 1: Access by outsiders to the project and its personnel must 270 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 1: be strictly controlled by appropriate security measures. This would actually 271 00:14:57,440 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 1: come into a really important story later are on in 272 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:04,120 Speaker 1: skunk works where people who genuinely wanted to help we're 273 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 1: not allowed on the premises and it ended up destroying 274 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:11,800 Speaker 1: a project in the process. Number four team is because 275 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:13,840 Speaker 1: only a few people will be used in engineering and 276 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:16,800 Speaker 1: most other areas, ways must be provided to reward good 277 00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:20,080 Speaker 1: performances by pay, not based on the number of personnel supervised. 278 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:22,120 Speaker 1: I think this was Kelly's way of saying, I wants 279 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 1: to get my money, y'all, and Shakespeare got to get paid. Yeah, 280 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:28,600 Speaker 1: Because you know, this is essentially saying I might have 281 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:31,360 Speaker 1: these really small teams that I've asked for, but don't 282 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 1: base my pay on how many people I oversee. Based 283 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:36,560 Speaker 1: my pay on the results that we get, which which 284 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:38,800 Speaker 1: we mostly include. Because we were a little bit entertained 285 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:41,000 Speaker 1: by by all of these like really imported. I mean 286 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 1: these these kind of business structures have been used throughout 287 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 1: corporate America and the world exactly since the inception of 288 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:55,000 Speaker 1: skunk Works, but tacked onto the end like get dudes paycheck, yes, 289 00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:57,560 Speaker 1: which you know, until again makes sense because it's not 290 00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:00,440 Speaker 1: just it's not just Kelly here, we're poking at Kelly, 291 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:03,600 Speaker 1: but honestly referred to anyone who was a project leader, 292 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:07,200 Speaker 1: right because again, if your project is incredibly important but 293 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:09,440 Speaker 1: it has fewer people on it then say a typical 294 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:12,720 Speaker 1: project in the main branch of Lockheed, you don't want 295 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 1: that to count against you. So that was he was 296 00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:16,960 Speaker 1: really looking out for his people. So even though we're 297 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:19,400 Speaker 1: making light of it, he was he was actually he 298 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:23,360 Speaker 1: was being very thoughtful exactly. Yeah, yeah, but yeah, I mean, 299 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:27,360 Speaker 1: practicality was overall the thing of this that the mantra 300 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:30,760 Speaker 1: of the entire operation is is quick, quiet, and quality. Yep, 301 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 1: he wants all three of those things. That has to 302 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:35,760 Speaker 1: be secret, it has to be done on schedule, and 303 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:38,240 Speaker 1: it has to be uh you know, has to meet 304 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 1: the qualifications that the military laid out. In fact, that 305 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:43,320 Speaker 1: was another one of his rules was that let's be 306 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:45,520 Speaker 1: really clear about what the expectations are so that we 307 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 1: can meet them and not waste time on things that 308 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:51,800 Speaker 1: are not important to whatever the expectations are. So yeah, 309 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:55,000 Speaker 1: top secret operation. In fact, employees were not allowed to 310 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:57,840 Speaker 1: talk about what they were working on with anyone who 311 00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:00,160 Speaker 1: wasn't on their project team. So even other people who 312 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 1: are working in skunk Works at the time, you were 313 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:04,880 Speaker 1: not allowed to talk about what it was you were 314 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:07,600 Speaker 1: working on if that person wasn't also on that project. 315 00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:10,719 Speaker 1: So um, this one carry over to one of the 316 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:14,280 Speaker 1: great testing facilities that would come into existence about a 317 00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:16,879 Speaker 1: decade later. We'll mention it a couple of times, but 318 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:18,840 Speaker 1: it's one of my favorite subjects that I still I'm 319 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:23,879 Speaker 1: determined to do an episode on sometime in the future. Anyway, Uh, 320 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:27,040 Speaker 1: it's almost as though we continually get prevented from doing it. 321 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:29,600 Speaker 1: I know, it's some kind of shadowy forces, almost like 322 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:33,240 Speaker 1: some gentlemen wearing black suits will occasionally show up outside 323 00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:34,800 Speaker 1: of the offices of How Stuff Works and say you 324 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:37,639 Speaker 1: really don't want to talk about that, namely Alex Trebec 325 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 1: and Jesse Ventura sometimes sometimes been Bowlen, and you think, 326 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:43,119 Speaker 1: like I thought he was on our side, but no, 327 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:46,760 Speaker 1: he's working for the man anyway. So another thing that 328 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:50,080 Speaker 1: we can mention is that the secrecy went beyond just 329 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:52,719 Speaker 1: you know, don't talk about it, right. They went so 330 00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:57,320 Speaker 1: far as to start to disguise the buildings themselves. Right, Um, Yeah, 331 00:17:57,359 --> 00:17:59,800 Speaker 1: they had decoy buildings and they would cover some of 332 00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:02,280 Speaker 1: them or all of them in camouflage and netting and 333 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:05,760 Speaker 1: stuff like that. Yeah, because you know, Pearl Harbor demonstrated 334 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:10,440 Speaker 1: the value of being able to hide potential high value targets, 335 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:12,760 Speaker 1: and now they were going to be working on super 336 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:15,919 Speaker 1: secret projects for the military, so they considered themselves a 337 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:18,720 Speaker 1: potential target. So this was really kind of a practical 338 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:22,159 Speaker 1: approach to trying to minimize that the chance that they 339 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 1: would be hit by some enemy aircraft carrying bombs. So 340 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:31,400 Speaker 1: they actually went to great pains to to disguise their campus. Now, 341 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:34,479 Speaker 1: the very first jet that they started working on, the 342 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:37,400 Speaker 1: one that had that Goblin jet engine from the British, 343 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:41,879 Speaker 1: was designated the XP eight e jet fighter. So the 344 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:45,240 Speaker 1: team started work on that in nineteen forty three, four 345 00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:50,280 Speaker 1: months before they were officially awarded the contract for the project. 346 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:55,240 Speaker 1: And it would turn out that this apparently was sort of. Yeah. 347 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:57,399 Speaker 1: That was essentially the military would say, hey, you know what, 348 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:01,840 Speaker 1: we sure could use a an aircraft that does this, 349 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:05,719 Speaker 1: this and this, and the skunk Works would say, we 350 00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:07,639 Speaker 1: could do that for you. Yeah, you know, we might 351 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:10,200 Speaker 1: whip something up. They shake hands, and then skunk Works 352 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:12,679 Speaker 1: goes out and pours a lot of time, money, and 353 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:15,480 Speaker 1: effort into developing it. And then months later the contract 354 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:17,680 Speaker 1: comes through. Oh yeah, yeah with it with the understanding 355 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:19,959 Speaker 1: that eventually the money would come. And you know, this 356 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:22,440 Speaker 1: was partially due to the or largely I think due 357 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:25,880 Speaker 1: to the cleverness and machinations of Kelly Johnson because he 358 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:29,960 Speaker 1: uh he also stated himself as the only person who 359 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:32,920 Speaker 1: would get to talk to Air Force officers and CIA agents. 360 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:37,040 Speaker 1: Um yeah, there's a great everything comes through him, which 361 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:41,840 Speaker 1: you know, which really streamlines the process exactly. Yeah. Yeah, 362 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:43,480 Speaker 1: you had that and put him up as a as 363 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:46,879 Speaker 1: a reliable He was the central voice. I mean, it 364 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:49,479 Speaker 1: meant that you weren't going to get mixed messages because 365 00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:52,119 Speaker 1: everything was going through one source. I also have a 366 00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:54,240 Speaker 1: fun little thing I can talk about and a little 367 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:57,240 Speaker 1: bit about about what it was like to go along 368 00:19:57,280 --> 00:19:59,680 Speaker 1: with Kelly on one of these meetings with the CIA. 369 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 1: I've heard him referred to as like W. C. Fields 370 00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 1: without the sense of humor. Yeah, in this case, it 371 00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:08,119 Speaker 1: was more about the links they went to to try 372 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:12,440 Speaker 1: and prevent being overheard, which I thought was amusing. Jonathan 373 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:15,159 Speaker 1: from here breaking in to say, we're going to be 374 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:17,240 Speaker 1: back at skunk Works in just a second, but first 375 00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:29,080 Speaker 1: let's take a quick break alright. Soe they got that contract, 376 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:35,959 Speaker 1: they delivered the XP eight Lulu Bell prototype jet fighter. Uh. 377 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:38,879 Speaker 1: This was only a hundred and forty three days after 378 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:42,320 Speaker 1: that kind of handshake deal had occurred. It was just 379 00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 1: under five months and a little bit earlier than planned. 380 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:48,000 Speaker 1: Yea by a full week. They delivered it a week 381 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:50,960 Speaker 1: ahead of schedule. Uh. And the jet fighter would eventually 382 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:55,119 Speaker 1: become known as the Lockheed P eighty Shooting Star. And 383 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:57,399 Speaker 1: that was the very first jet fighter used by the U. S. 384 00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:00,200 Speaker 1: Army Air Forces. So some of the bombers that were 385 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:03,040 Speaker 1: operating in Europe during the tail end of World War 386 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:05,960 Speaker 1: Two absolutely um where we're helped out by the creation 387 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:08,720 Speaker 1: of this vehicle. Right, It's just that they weren't designed 388 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:11,960 Speaker 1: to do actual military work yet, Like they couldn't fly 389 00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:15,200 Speaker 1: a combat mission. They weren't outfitted for that, and it 390 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:18,160 Speaker 1: wouldn't happen until after the conclusion of World War Two. 391 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:20,640 Speaker 1: They would be used later in the Korean War. Yes, 392 00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:22,720 Speaker 1: so you might wonder what it looks like. Well, it's 393 00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:25,720 Speaker 1: a single theater, single theater jet. It's pretty simple, like 394 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:28,480 Speaker 1: a basic jet design that if you can imagine what 395 00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:30,840 Speaker 1: a fighter jet looks like, it looks like a small 396 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:34,960 Speaker 1: version of that. That's why it was by so A 397 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:38,280 Speaker 1: little four years later they developed the T thirty three 398 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:40,760 Speaker 1: T Bird, which is also known as the T thirty 399 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:44,040 Speaker 1: three Shooting Star, which is mostly used at least in 400 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:46,840 Speaker 1: the United States, was mostly used as a training aircraft. 401 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:50,520 Speaker 1: It was meant to get pilots who had had experience 402 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:55,680 Speaker 1: with propeller aircraft to actually jet aircraft. Right. This is 403 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:58,359 Speaker 1: a brand new way of flying, and very few people 404 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:02,080 Speaker 1: had any expertise in it, apart from those crazy test 405 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:07,200 Speaker 1: pilots who lived on adrenaline and are a totally different species. 406 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 1: As far as I'm concerned, I'm a Nedraline junkie myself 407 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:12,040 Speaker 1: that I cannot imagine living that lifestyle where you like, 408 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:15,560 Speaker 1: when you're strapping me into this thing, goes, you know, 409 00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:20,560 Speaker 1: twice the speed of sound. Let's do it. No roller 410 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:24,240 Speaker 1: coaster adrenaline is great. Yeah, actual death adrenaline. It's a 411 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:26,520 Speaker 1: little more than I can handle. But yeah. So the 412 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:29,399 Speaker 1: first flight was piloted by Tony Lavier, who would end 413 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 1: up piloting lots of different test aircraft for Lockheed um 414 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:36,639 Speaker 1: and it remained in service for a long time in 415 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:39,320 Speaker 1: the United States as training aircraft. In a few parts 416 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:41,720 Speaker 1: of the world it's still used as training aircraft, and 417 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:46,800 Speaker 1: a few places even weaponized it, making it a combat aircraft, 418 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:49,159 Speaker 1: which was never used in the United States for that purpose. 419 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:51,840 Speaker 1: It was mainly there just as a training vehicle, but 420 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:55,520 Speaker 1: some places in the world have purchased T thirty three's 421 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:58,320 Speaker 1: and use them for for combat jets. They they are 422 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:02,280 Speaker 1: they are slightly overmatch, i would say, by most modern jets, 423 00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:05,200 Speaker 1: but but but still, I mean a solid piece of machinery. 424 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:08,720 Speaker 1: It was a little bit longer than the T, than 425 00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:13,160 Speaker 1: the than the right and had a second seat right, 426 00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:15,439 Speaker 1: which makes sense because it was used for training. Had 427 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:18,560 Speaker 1: a second seat with instrumentation and control, so kind of 428 00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:20,280 Speaker 1: like you know, if you've ever taken one of those 429 00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:24,240 Speaker 1: driving courses where the car has two sets of brakes 430 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:29,280 Speaker 1: and maybe even two steering wheels. Yeah, so in that 431 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:33,000 Speaker 1: case it's kind of similar. So, like I said, I 432 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:35,200 Speaker 1: was used still used in some parts of the world, 433 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:38,600 Speaker 1: mostly for training. Nineteen fifty they came out with the 434 00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:43,240 Speaker 1: F ninety four, which was also developed called the Starfire, 435 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:45,639 Speaker 1: right it was. It was also developed off of their 436 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:47,760 Speaker 1: three though. Yes, that's right, and it was meant to 437 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:49,879 Speaker 1: be faster and more maneuverable than the P A D. 438 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:53,679 Speaker 1: Turned out it was not that was the intent. It 439 00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:55,719 Speaker 1: did not quite turn out that way, but it was 440 00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:00,720 Speaker 1: meant to kind of match against Soviet aircraft. After this time, 441 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:04,680 Speaker 1: we're getting into the Cold War and so you had 442 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:07,399 Speaker 1: this escalation on both sides of the Cold War, the 443 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:10,840 Speaker 1: Soviet Union and the United States building all sorts of things. 444 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:14,480 Speaker 1: I mean, this would also be what fueled the space race, uh, 445 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:17,600 Speaker 1: shortly after this time period we're talking about right now. 446 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:20,200 Speaker 1: So they wanted to have something that was a little 447 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:23,159 Speaker 1: more capable of going up against Soviet aircraft, which tended 448 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:26,239 Speaker 1: to be smaller, less complex, and far faster and more 449 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:30,240 Speaker 1: maneuverable than the United States version. So that was the idea. 450 00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:33,159 Speaker 1: It was a it was a twin cedar aircraft and 451 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:38,760 Speaker 1: supposedly had very powerful instrumentation, including radar that would allow 452 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:43,160 Speaker 1: them to detect potential targets from quite a far away away. 453 00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:46,760 Speaker 1: In fact, it was so sensitive and so advanced that 454 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:50,719 Speaker 1: the United States government did not really want pilots flying 455 00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:54,080 Speaker 1: the F ninety four for enemy territory. They placed restrictions 456 00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:57,200 Speaker 1: to make sure that the technology wouldn't fall into enemy hands. Yeah, 457 00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:59,520 Speaker 1: which would come. And you know, it turns out that's 458 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:03,159 Speaker 1: an import in consideration because as we'll see with some 459 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:07,240 Speaker 1: later aircraft, there were instances where certain aircraft were shot 460 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:10,840 Speaker 1: down and there was a real worry that that technology 461 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:12,919 Speaker 1: was now going to fall into enemy hands and that 462 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:16,080 Speaker 1: any advantage the United States might have had would be 463 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:19,160 Speaker 1: lost as a result. So that's why they were very 464 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:21,159 Speaker 1: careful about where it could fly. It did in her 465 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:23,880 Speaker 1: combat in the Korean War. Uh. There's a site called 466 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:27,560 Speaker 1: Military Factory that has a great article about the Starfire 467 00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:30,320 Speaker 1: and said that it just didn't outperform the p A 468 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:32,480 Speaker 1: D when it came to combat situations, but it was 469 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:35,840 Speaker 1: able to uh inter combat with aircraft at night because 470 00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:38,800 Speaker 1: that radar was so sensitive that the crew aboard the 471 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:43,320 Speaker 1: Starfire could navigate and find targets and fire upon them 472 00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:47,600 Speaker 1: just using the instrumentation while not using visuals. So that's 473 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:51,080 Speaker 1: pretty amazing, and they called it a stop gap aircraft. 474 00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:53,800 Speaker 1: Like the idea was that until we can develop something better, 475 00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:56,280 Speaker 1: this is what we're going to use in the interim, 476 00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:58,800 Speaker 1: and by the late nineteen fifties it gets phased out. 477 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:03,000 Speaker 1: Now that brings us up to an interesting test vehicle 478 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:07,719 Speaker 1: in N one, the X seven King Fisher. So this 479 00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:10,040 Speaker 1: test vehicle is different from other test vehicles. This was 480 00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:12,159 Speaker 1: not This was not really a vehicle so much as 481 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:15,639 Speaker 1: an aircraft. It was it was not meant to carry 482 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:17,600 Speaker 1: people at all. What was meant to do was to 483 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:21,760 Speaker 1: mimic a missile. It essentially was a missile, but without 484 00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:25,679 Speaker 1: any kind of payload. So the idea was that they 485 00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:27,720 Speaker 1: would launch one of these from like a B twenty 486 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:31,000 Speaker 1: nine or a B fifty and it would go into 487 00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:35,000 Speaker 1: ramjet operation. Right. A ramjet being a type of engine 488 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:37,640 Speaker 1: that doesn't use moving parts. It takes an air at 489 00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:41,200 Speaker 1: in this case subsonic speeds and then using the pressure 490 00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:44,480 Speaker 1: of of the motion of the aircraft um it compresses 491 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:47,840 Speaker 1: that air to create combustion. Hence that missile like design. 492 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:50,760 Speaker 1: I mean the entire body of the aircraft is essentially 493 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:53,199 Speaker 1: an airflow device. Yeah. Yeah. In fact, one of these 494 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:55,360 Speaker 1: days we're gonna have to do like a full episode 495 00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:59,000 Speaker 1: about jet engines ramjet engines, talk about the differences and 496 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:02,639 Speaker 1: why you know, some are are sub sonic, some are supersonic, 497 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:06,640 Speaker 1: some are hypersonic. But that that's such a huge topic 498 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:10,240 Speaker 1: to really get into that it would this this series 499 00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:12,680 Speaker 1: would go like five episodes, So I'd love to know 500 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:17,359 Speaker 1: that it's Yeah, so the yeah, it's pretty cool stuff. 501 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:19,439 Speaker 1: And so what was funny about this thing was it 502 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:22,440 Speaker 1: was all meant to allow the United States to test 503 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,560 Speaker 1: anti missile systems, right. It was to give a target 504 00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:29,560 Speaker 1: that anti missile systems could aim at and fire at 505 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:32,919 Speaker 1: in an attempt to bring it down safely without having 506 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:36,120 Speaker 1: an actual missile with an actual payload flying around. Um. 507 00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:38,840 Speaker 1: It also had a very long nose that ended in 508 00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:41,920 Speaker 1: a like a needle like projection. Uh. The idea being 509 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:44,440 Speaker 1: that when it was when its fuel was spent, it 510 00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:48,120 Speaker 1: would parachute down and the needle would would land nose 511 00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:49,960 Speaker 1: down in the desert, and and that that would kind 512 00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:52,480 Speaker 1: of cushion in a way. Yeah, it would fall. It's 513 00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:54,600 Speaker 1: like kind of like a dart falling into the dirt. 514 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,399 Speaker 1: Like the idea being that it would suspend itself, you know, 515 00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:00,199 Speaker 1: from this needle, and therefore the fins on this thing 516 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:02,720 Speaker 1: wouldn't get damaged in the fall. And it turned out 517 00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:05,960 Speaker 1: that that was handy because it was hardly ever shot down. 518 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:09,240 Speaker 1: That was the problem was that apparently the Kingfisher was 519 00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:12,080 Speaker 1: a bit too good at what it did, and it 520 00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:16,000 Speaker 1: was so fast and agile, the anti missile systems didn't 521 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:18,000 Speaker 1: hit it that frequently. It was very few hits that 522 00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:21,960 Speaker 1: were scored in the program overall. And because that doesn't 523 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:25,600 Speaker 1: look so good to the military, like, well, our anti 524 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:28,439 Speaker 1: missile systems are are terrible. That's not that's not a 525 00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:30,560 Speaker 1: fun thing to say, right. It wounded up being a 526 00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:32,479 Speaker 1: little bit of an embarrassment. I think, Yeah, so they 527 00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:35,960 Speaker 1: scrapped the program because obviously that's the right choice, Like, 528 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:38,840 Speaker 1: our missiles can't hit this thing, let's scrap it. Let's 529 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:42,040 Speaker 1: redefine the rules so that we can we can win. Like, 530 00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:44,040 Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't think that's I mean, I'm 531 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:46,640 Speaker 1: not a military expert. I just don't think that's how 532 00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:49,440 Speaker 1: winning works. I I think that really the issue is 533 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:53,080 Speaker 1: that it was the incorrect technology for the project for 534 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:56,680 Speaker 1: for for for its purpose. We'll return to sniffing out 535 00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:58,920 Speaker 1: skunk Works Part one in just a moment, but first 536 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:10,080 Speaker 1: let's take another quick break. So nineteen fifty four, there's 537 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:12,840 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna mention this briefly because it will come 538 00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:15,960 Speaker 1: into play. We're actually doing this in two parts. This 539 00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:19,200 Speaker 1: this uh show about Lockheed, and so this is part 540 00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:21,160 Speaker 1: the first part, but this is going to come into 541 00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:24,560 Speaker 1: play in the second part. Lockheed develops the x C 542 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:29,680 Speaker 1: one Hercules YEP, which was a four engine turboprop aircraft 543 00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:34,440 Speaker 1: used in military transport. Now, the original Hercules, there wasn't 544 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:37,400 Speaker 1: that much innovative about it other than the fact that 545 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:39,800 Speaker 1: they could carry a lot of stuff. It was an 546 00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:42,920 Speaker 1: enormous cargo plane. But there's some stuff that they add 547 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:45,239 Speaker 1: to it a couple of decades later that make it 548 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:48,520 Speaker 1: pretty um terrifying. But with the hook about that when 549 00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:51,280 Speaker 1: I get to it. So nineteen the Also in nineteen 550 00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:56,840 Speaker 1: fifty four they developed the F one oh four Starfighter. Yeah, so, um, 551 00:29:57,080 --> 00:29:59,880 Speaker 1: now I'm starting to think of like transformers at this point. 552 00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,160 Speaker 1: So I know it's stars scream and transforms. Don't write 553 00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:05,200 Speaker 1: to me. I know it's Star scream. I'm just saying 554 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:09,160 Speaker 1: it's starting to get get that feel. So Starfighter, it's 555 00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:14,360 Speaker 1: a single engine supersonic interceptor and alright, go ahead. Sorry, 556 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:16,160 Speaker 1: well no, no no, I was just gonna say that this 557 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:19,160 Speaker 1: was it was the first MAC two aircraft, which means 558 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:22,760 Speaker 1: it travels at speeds of one miles per hour or 559 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:28,200 Speaker 1: about two thousand, four fifty kilometers per out pretty fast. Uh. 560 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:31,600 Speaker 1: It's also you know, it was specifically designed to go 561 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:35,240 Speaker 1: into battle against Soviet miggs at least, if ever we 562 00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:38,040 Speaker 1: were to go into combat with the Soviet Union. The MiGs. 563 00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:42,600 Speaker 1: The miggs were incredibly maneuverable, so this was sort of 564 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:47,160 Speaker 1: our answer to the Soviet miggs aircraft. Um. And uh, 565 00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:50,240 Speaker 1: you know, and an intercepter. That's what an interceptor is, 566 00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:52,600 Speaker 1: in case you're wondering. Is a specific kind of jet 567 00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:56,120 Speaker 1: fighter that's designed to do air to air combat, so 568 00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:59,720 Speaker 1: not just other fighters but also bombers and other types 569 00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:02,880 Speaker 1: of air craft. So it's a specific type of jet fighter. 570 00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:06,440 Speaker 1: Wasn't really designed to have any kind of ground operation, 571 00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:08,480 Speaker 1: so you wouldn't be using this to fire against ground 572 00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:12,440 Speaker 1: forces necessarily. Um. It has a really weird look to it. 573 00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:16,640 Speaker 1: It's very long, and the wings look pretty stubby compared 574 00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:19,320 Speaker 1: to the body of the jets, so it just it 575 00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:21,880 Speaker 1: looks like a rocket with some thin stuck to the 576 00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:24,520 Speaker 1: side and a cockpit in it, and there's a person 577 00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:27,160 Speaker 1: in there. This is this is going to be another 578 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:31,560 Speaker 1: one of those um ramjet based engines. Yeah, and uh. 579 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:33,560 Speaker 1: It was operated mainly by the Air Force and the 580 00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:36,440 Speaker 1: Air National Guard and a NASA had a few because 581 00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,600 Speaker 1: they wanted to use them for supersonic test flights, because 582 00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:42,120 Speaker 1: they had this crazy idea about sending people up into 583 00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:45,000 Speaker 1: outer space, I know. And it turns out that if 584 00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:46,840 Speaker 1: you want to make sure that your human beings can 585 00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:49,200 Speaker 1: survive the trip, you might want to do some supersonic 586 00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:52,800 Speaker 1: tests first, because you're gonna be going pretty fast. Yeah. Yeah, 587 00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:56,960 Speaker 1: So it was really important there and about dred actually 588 00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:01,400 Speaker 1: more than were produced overall, but only eight of those 589 00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:05,120 Speaker 1: were made by Lockheed. Everything else was licensed to other manufacturers. Right. 590 00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:07,520 Speaker 1: They would be retired by the mid nineteen seventies, but 591 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:10,120 Speaker 1: would continue or by the US anyway, but would continue 592 00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:13,480 Speaker 1: to serve in various air forces until about two thousand four. 593 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:18,120 Speaker 1: And uh. The way this whole program started was Kelly 594 00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:21,760 Speaker 1: went to Korea and started telling to us pilots and said, okay, 595 00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:23,800 Speaker 1: what is it that you need in order? What do 596 00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:25,880 Speaker 1: you want? What if you could build your own aircraft, 597 00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:27,719 Speaker 1: what what would you want? And they said, we want 598 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:31,680 Speaker 1: it less complex, smaller, and faster. Essentially, they're saying, you 599 00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:34,680 Speaker 1: know the Soviet maigs that they have, want those. So 600 00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:37,640 Speaker 1: that was kind of the idea that that fed into 601 00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:40,400 Speaker 1: the development of the Starfighter. The thing that weirds me 602 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:42,200 Speaker 1: out about this craft is that had this had this 603 00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:46,200 Speaker 1: downward facing ejection seat, so rather than than than popping 604 00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:49,640 Speaker 1: up and away. And I understand that probably I've read 605 00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:51,600 Speaker 1: that it was something about the shape of the tail 606 00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:53,120 Speaker 1: or the side of the tail, and that might have 607 00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:59,640 Speaker 1: made clearance difficult exactly, but nonetheless sending me screaming straight 608 00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:01,800 Speaker 1: down arns out of a plane just sounds like and 609 00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:04,720 Speaker 1: and not dropped right shot shot because you were in 610 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:10,160 Speaker 1: because your jet may be in danger of exploding, so 611 00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:13,640 Speaker 1: you have to have these explosive charges that project your 612 00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,600 Speaker 1: your seat in a particular direction. In this case, that 613 00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:19,560 Speaker 1: direction was straight down, so that you would the bottom 614 00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:21,240 Speaker 1: of the jet would open up and you would be 615 00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:24,480 Speaker 1: shot down in your ejectors seat to clear the plane. Yeah, 616 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:26,440 Speaker 1: and I am, strangely enough, not the only person who 617 00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:28,440 Speaker 1: found this kind of weird. The Germans had a really 618 00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:31,280 Speaker 1: interesting nickname for it. Yeah, that nickname would be vit 619 00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:35,920 Speaker 1: vin Macher, which means the widow maker. Yes, the widow maker. 620 00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:40,479 Speaker 1: They said that it was an incredibly dangerous aircraft and 621 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:43,680 Speaker 1: that uh, that there were that you were more likely 622 00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:48,280 Speaker 1: to have a malfunction or some other kind of accident 623 00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:51,200 Speaker 1: in it in the operation rather than ever getting shot 624 00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:54,520 Speaker 1: down in combat. That it was just an unreliable aircraft, 625 00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:56,640 Speaker 1: and that there were some big, big problems with it. 626 00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:59,560 Speaker 1: Germany was not the only country to say that. Now, 627 00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:02,040 Speaker 1: there were other countries that said that's something like fifty 628 00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:05,480 Speaker 1: of their aircraft they lost of all the ones they 629 00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:09,800 Speaker 1: had due to operational accidents. Yeah, um not. Nonetheless, it 630 00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:12,760 Speaker 1: would win a Callier Trophy in which is an award 631 00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:16,680 Speaker 1: presented annually by the National Aeronautics Association for achievement in 632 00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:21,680 Speaker 1: either aeronautics or astronautics. And it's it's a pretty big deal. 633 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:24,120 Speaker 1: Like Lockheed Martin would win six of these over the 634 00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:28,080 Speaker 1: course of their tenure um up until today. But you know, 635 00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:31,440 Speaker 1: so it was a big important craft, Yeah, and a 636 00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:34,520 Speaker 1: little bit shotting. Yeah, it all depended on whom you us. Right, 637 00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:38,200 Speaker 1: there were some who said the Starfighter was an inherently 638 00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:41,400 Speaker 1: dangerous vehicle that was poorly constructed and in fact alleged 639 00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:44,600 Speaker 1: that Lockheed had bribed officials in order to win the 640 00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:48,360 Speaker 1: contract to make a thing. But then there were other 641 00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:52,000 Speaker 1: places that said, no, we've never lost a single aircraft 642 00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:55,239 Speaker 1: due to some sort of operational error. So it all 643 00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:59,040 Speaker 1: depended on you know, who was doing the flying. I guess. Uh, 644 00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:03,799 Speaker 1: so it certainly is controversial. Then there's the the RB 645 00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:08,239 Speaker 1: sixty nine Neptune. You know, here's the crazy thing about 646 00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:11,839 Speaker 1: the neptune. There are two different types of neptunes. Okay, 647 00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:15,080 Speaker 1: so the U. S. Navy has neptunes, and these neptunes 648 00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:19,920 Speaker 1: are maritime, uh surveillance, not even surveillance. They just they 649 00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:24,759 Speaker 1: just they monitor and fly over oceans looking at Yeah, 650 00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:27,920 Speaker 1: it's just patrol, right, and that's all it is. Um. 651 00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:30,799 Speaker 1: So it's not necessarily like a heavy combat type thing. 652 00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:34,240 Speaker 1: It just it does these patrols. Well, this this Neptune 653 00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:37,680 Speaker 1: was designed to look like the Navy's Neptune, but instead 654 00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:40,200 Speaker 1: of being operated by the Navy, they were operated by 655 00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:44,160 Speaker 1: the CIA Central Intelligence Agency in the United States. I 656 00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:46,399 Speaker 1: just want to take a moment to say thank you 657 00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:48,720 Speaker 1: to all the men and women in the CIA who 658 00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:52,640 Speaker 1: always try very hard to keep us safe and uh 659 00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:56,040 Speaker 1: promise I'll be good. So the c I as obviously 660 00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:59,799 Speaker 1: one of those organizations known for being super secret. I mean, 661 00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:02,560 Speaker 1: that's why it's their job. That is literally their job. Yeah, 662 00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:05,640 Speaker 1: the espionage is high up there. They are all about 663 00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:09,480 Speaker 1: material surveillance, which means like direct surveillance, whereas the n 664 00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:12,440 Speaker 1: s A, the National Security Agency, which we've talked about before, 665 00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:16,800 Speaker 1: is all about electronic surveillance and signal surveillance. So c 666 00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:20,960 Speaker 1: I A, Uh, they wanted to have the opportunity to 667 00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:25,759 Speaker 1: do some surveillance missions with aircraft, and uh there were 668 00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:28,080 Speaker 1: there were so many of these of these Navy neptunes 669 00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:29,800 Speaker 1: in use that they were like, you know, if we 670 00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:32,520 Speaker 1: just built something that looks like a Navy neptune, people 671 00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:34,280 Speaker 1: will be It's it's like a you know, it's it's 672 00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:37,719 Speaker 1: a Navy, it's Navy aircraft. Yeah, it's everywhere, right, no 673 00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:40,719 Speaker 1: one's going to pay any attention. We're perfectly fun. Well, 674 00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:44,360 Speaker 1: we can hide in plane site. The Navy said, hey, 675 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:47,600 Speaker 1: hang on there, buddy, if one of those planes is 676 00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:51,120 Speaker 1: shot down, that means you're going to blame us, the U. S. Navy, 677 00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:53,279 Speaker 1: because you're not going to come forward and say that 678 00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:56,239 Speaker 1: was our plane. And the CIA said, yop, and the 679 00:36:56,320 --> 00:37:00,400 Speaker 1: Navy said you can't. I can't paint your look like 680 00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:04,440 Speaker 1: our planes. So they look like from a from a 681 00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:07,799 Speaker 1: just a from a body standpoint, Yeah, they look identical. 682 00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:10,520 Speaker 1: They are identical to these other and the other types 683 00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:14,759 Speaker 1: are designated P two V seven Neptunes. That's the Navy's aircraft. 684 00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:17,920 Speaker 1: The c I A is the RB sixty nine. So 685 00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:23,080 Speaker 1: they look from a superficial level identical. Although each of 686 00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:25,839 Speaker 1: those seven planes that was built that were built for 687 00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:28,840 Speaker 1: the CIA by hand by hand, it looks different and 688 00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:31,640 Speaker 1: is outfitted with different equipment for different They could do 689 00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:34,080 Speaker 1: different things, like one of the things they would occasionally 690 00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:37,359 Speaker 1: do is drop leaflets on two countries to try and 691 00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:41,719 Speaker 1: promote you know, resistance and then propagand exactly. Um, so 692 00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:45,760 Speaker 1: you know, it wasn't always some sort of actual direct 693 00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:51,160 Speaker 1: combat issue. So uh, there were a couple that had 694 00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:53,600 Speaker 1: some sidewinder missiles, so there were a couple that were 695 00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:56,360 Speaker 1: ready for combat if it was necessary, but none of 696 00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:59,520 Speaker 1: them ever entered combat. I believe, well, someone were shot down, 697 00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:01,520 Speaker 1: but none of them I thinking to went into a 698 00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:04,960 Speaker 1: combat mission. Yeah. Out of the seven that were built 699 00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:07,040 Speaker 1: for the c I A, five of them have been 700 00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:10,360 Speaker 1: lost either shot down or we don't know, or at 701 00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:13,279 Speaker 1: least we don't know. We don't know, Jonathan and I 702 00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:15,359 Speaker 1: don't know. No one has told us. Yeah, there's no 703 00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:18,040 Speaker 1: public information about what happened. Like one of them disappeared 704 00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:21,560 Speaker 1: over China, for example, and there's no information that is 705 00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:24,920 Speaker 1: publicly available about the fate of that aircraft, although actually 706 00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:26,799 Speaker 1: technically the fate of the other two is not known 707 00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:28,319 Speaker 1: to the public as well. Is that right? The two 708 00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:30,600 Speaker 1: the two surviving ones, we don't know where they are. 709 00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:34,200 Speaker 1: They could be doing anything right now. I think they're 710 00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:37,759 Speaker 1: with Ben Bolland and Alex treat you. Probably those men 711 00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:39,960 Speaker 1: and Black have to get around somehow, right, So we 712 00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:42,239 Speaker 1: don't know what those two surviving aircraft are doing, but 713 00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:45,759 Speaker 1: we have our suspicions. Ninety five. Now here's where we're 714 00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:48,399 Speaker 1: gonna end. Because this is also a big, big year 715 00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:53,000 Speaker 1: for Lockeed skunk Works and for the spy industry in 716 00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:57,720 Speaker 1: the United States, surveillance reconnaissance. This is when lockeed built 717 00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:01,160 Speaker 1: the U to a Angel, the or the YouTube the 718 00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:04,640 Speaker 1: first YouTube plane. So tech Stuff has done a full 719 00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:07,440 Speaker 1: episode about the U two spy plane, So if you 720 00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:10,120 Speaker 1: want to hear all about it, I recommend you go back. Yeah, 721 00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:12,720 Speaker 1: go listen to that. That was published on March nineteen 722 00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:16,520 Speaker 1: and was called tech Stuff Spies on the YouTube. So 723 00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:19,320 Speaker 1: we've got a lot more information about the entire process 724 00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:21,960 Speaker 1: of developing the YouTube as well as some of the 725 00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:23,759 Speaker 1: other aircraft that we will be talking about in our 726 00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:26,000 Speaker 1: next episode. But this was big. It was a joint 727 00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:28,920 Speaker 1: operation between the CIA, the Air Force, and and Lockheed 728 00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:30,920 Speaker 1: of course, right, so because it was c i A 729 00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:35,239 Speaker 1: it was it was called a black operation, meaning it 730 00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:38,840 Speaker 1: was ultra secret. And the reason why the CIA got involved, 731 00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:41,279 Speaker 1: well the United States, you know, the President kind of 732 00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:45,520 Speaker 1: wanted to have these spy planes, but Congress could oversee 733 00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:48,319 Speaker 1: the budgets the Air Force. Yeah, the budget for the 734 00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:51,120 Speaker 1: Air Force. So Congress is like scrutinizing all the money 735 00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:53,919 Speaker 1: that's going through to the military, and the President says, 736 00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:55,560 Speaker 1: you know, I'd really like to be able to build 737 00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:58,120 Speaker 1: these planes, but I can't do it through Congress because 738 00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:00,160 Speaker 1: they're not going to play ball. What if I had 739 00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:04,520 Speaker 1: the c I A the secret agency who the governance 740 00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:07,600 Speaker 1: of which is a mystery to almost everybody, apart from 741 00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:10,319 Speaker 1: the people who are actually running things. Stuff they don't 742 00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:12,879 Speaker 1: want you to know. Um, how do we have them 743 00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:16,440 Speaker 1: build it instead? So it falls under the CIA's budget, 744 00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:19,760 Speaker 1: which was classified. People in Congress could not see what 745 00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:21,640 Speaker 1: the money went to. They knew that money was going 746 00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:23,799 Speaker 1: to the CIA, but they had no idea where it 747 00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:26,360 Speaker 1: was going. Beyond that, only only a small number of 748 00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:29,480 Speaker 1: government officials knew anything about the project at the time. Right. 749 00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:32,640 Speaker 1: So that project being the development of the YouTube plane, 750 00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:37,080 Speaker 1: which is an incredible aircraft. It's still in service today. Um, 751 00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:40,960 Speaker 1: there's still quite a few in the fleet. And essentially 752 00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:44,000 Speaker 1: what does is it flies it really high altitudes, like 753 00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:50,319 Speaker 1: seventy thousand feet yea, so twenty one kilometers that's that's 754 00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:53,880 Speaker 1: almost twice the the operating the normal jet engine like 755 00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:58,439 Speaker 1: a passenger gen that's about right. Yeah, So it's about 756 00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:02,560 Speaker 1: twice as high as any of those. And the idea 757 00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:05,479 Speaker 1: was that at that altitude the YouTube could fly over 758 00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:08,040 Speaker 1: radar and not be detected. It also would be out 759 00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:11,840 Speaker 1: of reach of any air ground to air missiles. Or fighters, 760 00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:15,080 Speaker 1: So in other words, they could just stay up out 761 00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:17,560 Speaker 1: of reach and spy on whoever they wanted, and then 762 00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:21,120 Speaker 1: there would be no repercussions at least directly to that aircraft. 763 00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:25,279 Speaker 1: For the time being. That concludes our first part of 764 00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:28,280 Speaker 1: a two part episode about skunk Works. We will return 765 00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:32,880 Speaker 1: next week to conclude that too, partner skunk Works in general. 766 00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:35,239 Speaker 1: It's one of those things that I could do probably 767 00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:39,760 Speaker 1: half a dozen episodes about UH and not even scratch 768 00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:42,480 Speaker 1: the surface. But if you guys have suggestions for things 769 00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:45,320 Speaker 1: I should cover in tech Stuff, whether it's really too secret, 770 00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:47,840 Speaker 1: R and D projects or not, reach out to me 771 00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:50,320 Speaker 1: on Twitter. The handle is tech stuff H s W 772 00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:58,279 Speaker 1: and I'll talk to you again really soon. Y. Text 773 00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:01,719 Speaker 1: Stuff is an I Heart Radio production. For more podcasts 774 00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:04,520 Speaker 1: from I Heart Radio, visit the i Heart Radio app, 775 00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:07,800 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. 776 00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:12,360 Speaker 1: H