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Speaker 1: If you're gonna look at stats and numbers, he has

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Speaker 1: no shot at making.

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Speaker 2: This World Cup team.

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Speaker 1: Having said that, I think when you look at the

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Speaker 1: players that we have the quality of players that we

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Speaker 1: have on the team, and it's leave Christian Polisic aside

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Speaker 1: for a minute here. I think there's no player that

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Speaker 1: can create more opportunities within the final thirty yards of

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Speaker 1: the field in g Arena.

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Speaker 3: What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to Inside American Soccer.

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Speaker 3: I'm your host, Tom Boger, joined as always by my

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Speaker 3: friend and one of the greatest players in US soccer history,

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Speaker 3: a veteran of three World Cups and much much more,

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Speaker 3: tab Ramas tab. You were just at the United Soccer

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Speaker 3: Coaches Convention in Philadelphia this weekend. You were talking on

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Speaker 3: a panel people getting your expertise.

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Speaker 1: How was it, Oh, it was as always a ton

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Speaker 1: of fun, I like not only obviously, I had a

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Speaker 1: couple panels. I had one with Eric Guanalada, which is

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Speaker 1: always fun to be with, and I had another one

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Speaker 1: with John Harks on Saturday, and Glenn Crooks was the moderator.

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Speaker 2: So it couldn't have gone any better.

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Speaker 3: Really, when you get to do these things with Harksey

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Speaker 3: and Tony and I. You know, you guys do a

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Speaker 3: lot of things together. Is it difficult to be like

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Speaker 3: professional Tab and professional John at these things or do

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Speaker 3: you feel like you're going back to all the memories

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Speaker 3: that you guys have and just messing around like your

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Speaker 3: two friends, or do you or is it easy for

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Speaker 3: you to put on the blazer and get into like

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Speaker 3: super professional mode.

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Speaker 1: No. I think actually we all have enough experience now

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Speaker 1: that you know, we can get in front of a

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Speaker 1: room and sort of stick to our points. You know,

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Speaker 1: John being a technical director type, me having a little

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Speaker 1: bit of a coaches voice in Tony a little bit

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Speaker 1: of the same. Tony has probably more experience in terms

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Speaker 1: of media and all that stuff.

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Speaker 2: So when we.

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Speaker 1: Work together this way, I think it's kind of easy

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Speaker 1: and plus which I know we'll get to.

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Speaker 2: I have my towel today just in case I want

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Speaker 2: to make sure that no one takes it. I have

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Speaker 2: it right next to me. I'm sure we'll get to

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Speaker 2: this at some point.

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Speaker 3: That's fantastic. Well, if you're watching it on video or

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Speaker 3: listen along, maybe you hear a couple of chuckles in

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Speaker 3: the background. Because we have a special guest. Today, we

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Speaker 3: are joined by my good friend Paul Scenario, senior writer

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Speaker 3: for The Athletic and soon to be officially a published author.

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Speaker 3: Paul wrote a book called The Messy Effect, How the

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Speaker 3: Global Legend Changed the Future of American Soccer that is

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Speaker 3: available right now for pre order wherever books are sold,

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Speaker 3: and we'll dive into the book a little bit later. Paul, So,

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Speaker 3: put away your advertising boards and everything else you needed

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Speaker 3: to get into. I just have one question when I

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Speaker 3: say soon to be officially a published author, does that

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Speaker 3: bother you do you need? Do you need something different?

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Speaker 3: Are you gonna start wearing overcoats with with little elbow

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Speaker 3: pads like a professor? Like, well, what is this transformation

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Speaker 3: like for you?

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Speaker 4: No, I have a corduroy jacket. I do. I have

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Speaker 4: a quarter ray jacket upstairs with the elbow pads. I'm

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Speaker 4: gonna I'm gonna start having a pipe, I think, is

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Speaker 4: what I'm gonna do. It's gonna become my new signature,

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Speaker 4: just just a pipe wherever I go. No, really, when

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Speaker 4: I hear it, I just get high levels of anxiety

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Speaker 4: right now about the book. I wish I could be

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Speaker 4: relaxed and like, oh, I'm a published author. Like no,

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Speaker 4: it's just I'm just filled with dread over this over

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Speaker 4: this summer. So hopefully it goes well. But you know,

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Speaker 4: it's uh, it was a lot of work that went

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Speaker 4: into the book, so you know, now it's just a

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Speaker 4: matter of putting it out into the world and seeing

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Speaker 4: how it's received. From there, I think it'll be received

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Speaker 4: very well. And from getting to be close with you

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Speaker 4: and seeing the other side of this process, he ain't

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Speaker 4: lying when he says it's a lot of work. I

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Speaker 4: promise you that I can't wait to read it, can't

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Speaker 4: wait for people to get their hands on it. We're

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Speaker 4: gonna talk about that more a little bit later, but

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Speaker 4: on today's show, we're gonna start by going inside the notebook,

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Speaker 4: giving the latest news around the US men's national team.

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Speaker 4: What's the latest with Josh Sergeant and possibly Toronto FC.

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Speaker 4: There's a lot going on there with Nord City. We'll

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Speaker 4: dive into that, as well as a couple other things.

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Speaker 3: Paul is here to give his five USMNT things to

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Speaker 3: watch before the World Cup. It's always good to get

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Speaker 3: a good perspective. I'm looking forward to that, and of course,

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Speaker 3: as always, we're gonna go inside the locker room with

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Speaker 3: Taberamas for another special story and those are always fun.

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Speaker 3: But let's start inside the note book. First things first,

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Speaker 3: Josh Sargent Toronto FC made a bid of eighteen million.

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Speaker 3: Josh Sargent wants this move. Norwich do not want him

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Speaker 3: to leave. The manager continues to come out and publicly

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Speaker 3: say he is not for sale. He is not leaving,

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Speaker 3: and Josh Sargent has skipped out on their last couple

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Speaker 3: of games. Norwich has sent him to train with the

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Speaker 3: U twenty ones along the way. Toronto FC are still pushing,

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Speaker 3: hoping to get this deal over the line. A new

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Speaker 3: detail that has emerged this week is that there is

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Speaker 3: a relegation release clause in Josh Sargent's contract. North City

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Speaker 3: are in a relegation fight and if they were to

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Speaker 3: go down, if they don't sell him this winter, if

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Speaker 3: they were to go down, then they will lose him.

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Speaker 3: For if it's not free, it's a significant discount from

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Speaker 3: what it is now. And that's just a lot of

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Speaker 3: complicated factors. It's getting ugly between Sergeant and Norwich. Sergeant

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Speaker 3: really really wants this move. He's hoping for Norwich to

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Speaker 3: acquiesce to this, and Nords are saying, hey, you have

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Speaker 3: a contract, We're in a relegation fight. You're not going

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Speaker 3: that's it. So Paul, you've been reporting on the story

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Speaker 3: with me as well. What is your perspective on Josh

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Speaker 3: sargent saga.

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Speaker 4: It's a game of chicken at this point. You know,

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Speaker 4: I think it's a game of chicken and who blinks first.

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Speaker 4: And you know, there's a couple factors here. I think

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Speaker 4: first of all is Norch doesn't think they're going down.

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Speaker 4: You know, since they've made the manager change, they were

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Speaker 4: around one point two one point three points per game

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Speaker 4: would keep them safely out of the relegation zone. Obviously

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Speaker 4: they had an awful start to the season, so I

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Speaker 4: think they're factoring a relegation clause into this battle a

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Speaker 4: lot less than Josh Sargent's side. And then there's the

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Speaker 4: fact that Toronto's bid is the third highest bid that

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Speaker 4: we know about for Josh Sargent over the last two years.

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Speaker 4: Cincinnati's bid was higher, and Wolfsburg bid from Germany Wundesliga

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Speaker 4: was the highest this past summer, which Josh Sargent turned down,

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Speaker 4: not Norich turning it down. So you know, I think

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Speaker 4: there's there's only one place that this goes if it's

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Speaker 4: going to get done, and that's with a higher offer

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Speaker 4: from Toronto FC. You know, if they try to stick

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Speaker 4: to eighteen to twenty million, I think they're going to

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Speaker 4: fall short of this transfer. And you know, frankly, I think,

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Speaker 4: you know, we have been around this game long enough

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Speaker 4: to know that usually that bid gets pushed up and

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Speaker 4: usually this transfer happens. But I think that Norris is

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Speaker 4: dug in right now and I don't think. I don't

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Speaker 4: think they're gonna make this easy on Joss Sargent.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I couldn't agree more.

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Speaker 1: I think, as you know, as we've looked over the years,

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Speaker 1: that many of these situations, because they happen all the time,

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Speaker 1: right it happened with the Zachad going to to Liverpool

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Speaker 1: this summer. There's normally no turning back on these. There's

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Speaker 1: no turning back. So I don't see Josh coming back

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Speaker 1: to Norwich. Norwich at any point. Once you get sent

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Speaker 1: to the youth team, I mean, that's a sign right

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Speaker 1: there that likely the coach doesn't really want him in

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Speaker 1: the locker room anymore. And I think, as Paul said,

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Speaker 1: this is now. It's the money game, right, It's how

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Speaker 1: much can we get for him. Let's get the most

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Speaker 1: we can get, Let's push as much as we can,

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Speaker 1: and let's get the highest bid and get them out

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Speaker 1: of here.

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Speaker 2: I think that's what's going to happen.

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Speaker 3: I've been, I think a little disappointed by the manager's

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Speaker 3: public comments, and I I do know that people around

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Speaker 3: this deal are as well. He keeps on blustering like,

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Speaker 3: you know, he's not for sale, that's it, there's nothing there,

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Speaker 3: and then he'll say things like, well, you know, at

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Speaker 3: this bid, he's definitely not for sale. It would have

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Speaker 3: to make more financial sense. So which one is it?

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Speaker 3: Is he not for sale or do you want more money?

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Speaker 3: And I do believe it's the latter, like you guys

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Speaker 3: are saying. Logically, I think we all expect this to

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Speaker 3: go and maybe Norwich are slow playing this. I mean

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Speaker 3: not at this point, but because these negotiations I've been

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Speaker 3: going on since beginning early December and wild the manager

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Speaker 3: is giving a press conference last week saying he's not

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Speaker 3: for sale. All of this nothing. They're still negotiating with

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Speaker 3: Toronto during that pot like sources have told Paul and

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Speaker 3: I the conversations are active wild. The manager is saying, no,

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Speaker 3: he's not for sale. If he's not for sale, then

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Speaker 3: you just stop talking. It's it is that simple. And

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Speaker 3: some people thought that they were slow playing it from

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Speaker 3: December to try to just stretch out how long they

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Speaker 3: would have Sergeant at the club, give them more time

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Speaker 3: for a replacement, all that other stuff, until things really

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Speaker 3: hit ahead when Sergeant saiday, like, I'm not playing, like

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Speaker 3: accept this deal or let this move happen, because that's

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Speaker 3: what he wants. He didn't kick up of us with

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Speaker 3: the Cincinnati bid. He didn't kick up with us when

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Speaker 3: they got relegated and there was offers from the Premier League.

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Speaker 3: He's very very strong interest from the Premier League a

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Speaker 3: few years ago. He's been a good soldier in the Championship.

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Speaker 3: He's been one of their most consistent players, definitely the

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Speaker 3: most consistent goalscorer over his tenure at the club. So

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Speaker 3: all of that, he was hoping that the club were

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Speaker 3: gonna be more collaborative, more cooperative. He just welcomed he

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Speaker 3: and his wife their third kid. They want to go

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Speaker 3: back to North America for family reasons, and that's part

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Speaker 3: of the reason why or that is the reason why

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Speaker 3: they didn't go to Wolfsburg in the summer, because they

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Speaker 3: do love Norwich and what they wanted was to there.

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Speaker 3: Whenever he leaves was to be back to North America

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Speaker 3: and Toronto FC came up with a competitive offer. Paul,

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Speaker 3: maybe right, it could be a little bit higher. This

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Speaker 3: is still a significant potential fee, whether it is eighteen

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Speaker 3: and like you said, I don't think that that's gonna

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Speaker 3: get it done either, but something in this ballpark, it's

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Speaker 3: pretty significant. It's not as if Toronto are offering, you know,

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Speaker 3: eight million, right like, so while Norris probably want more,

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Speaker 3: it's not it's not as if it's, you know, just

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Speaker 3: a ridiculous bid. So this is this is interesting. We'll

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Speaker 3: see how it goes. And the MLS transfer window is

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Speaker 3: open until March, so if Norris really wanted to drag

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Speaker 3: this out, there's still time. Like it's not the January

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Speaker 3: transfer window closing date that would be the final day

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Speaker 3: for this because MLS that the registration is different. Right now,

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Speaker 3: there is interest or at least he's on a list

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Speaker 3: of nodding forced. I was told very clearly he wants

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Speaker 3: Toronto and only Toronto. It's that simple. They need to

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Speaker 3: get a deal done. So I'm curious to see where

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Speaker 3: this goes in the next few days.

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Speaker 4: Three three kids at twenty five. I hope he's negotiating

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Speaker 4: with Toronto for a living nanny or something into that contract,

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Speaker 4: that DP contract, because man, I got two and I'm

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Speaker 4: done at this. I can't, I couldn't, I couldn't do

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Speaker 4: another one.

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Speaker 3: Not to be geopolitical here, but he does get to

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Speaker 3: go back to MLS and and Canada free healthcare right there.

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Speaker 3: There's a lot of there's a lot of bonuses there

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Speaker 3: that that aren't going to be part of the contract

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Speaker 3: that he might get in Toronto that aren't in you know, Cincinnati,

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Speaker 3: San Jose or insert any other There's.

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Speaker 4: Always the benefit of playing in Canada, and unless you

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Speaker 4: get paid in US dollars and you're living in Canada,

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Speaker 4: usually a good thing for the players.

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Speaker 3: There onto another player who in that same summer where

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Speaker 3: Josh Sargent almost went to f C Cincinnati, another player

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Speaker 3: that was on their list is Western McKinney. Western McKinney

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Speaker 3: continues to be in perhaps the form of his life

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Speaker 3: for certainly one of the best periods in his career.

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Speaker 3: It's coming out a great time. With his contract set

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Speaker 3: to expire this summer. Ben Jacobs has reported that there

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Speaker 3: have been some approaches from Premier League clubs about signing

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Speaker 3: a pre contract. When your contract is up within six months,

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Speaker 3: you are allowed to officially negotiate and he could technically

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Speaker 3: sign a new deal to join a new club in

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Speaker 3: the summer. It's not there yet. I'm curious to see

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Speaker 3: where this is going to go. But Western McKinney it's

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Speaker 3: a really good time to be in this good form,

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Speaker 3: not just for club with the World Cup coming up

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Speaker 3: this summer. From what I heard a few weeks ago.

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Speaker 3: I haven't checked in on this again. There was no

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Speaker 3: approaches from Juventus about a new contract yet, and I'm

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Speaker 3: not really sure where this one's gonna go and where

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Speaker 3: Wes McKinney's future lives.

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Speaker 4: Well, there's an update today actually out of Italy about

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Speaker 4: that that youve do want a new deal with Weston mckenniye,

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Speaker 4: they do want to re up him. He's playing, like

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Speaker 4: you said, really really good football right now for them

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Speaker 4: and they would like to lock him up. You know,

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Speaker 4: we talked about the Joss Sargent situation. It's a matter

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Speaker 4: of leverage right. Lawrence is looking at it saying, we

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Speaker 4: have you for several years left on your contract. We're

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Speaker 4: not worried about relegation. Josh sargent side is saying, we

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Speaker 4: have this relegation clause where we could go for much

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Speaker 4: cheaper and we're in the relegation zone. That's a game

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Speaker 4: of leverage right now. Weston mckennie's got a ton of leverage,

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Speaker 4: right He's got interest from you know, reportedly interest from England.

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Speaker 4: We know he's had interest from Major League Soccer, and

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Speaker 4: we know that there are teams in MLS that are

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Speaker 4: able to put big money down for a player like

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Speaker 4: Weston McKenny And so he can go to Juve now

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Speaker 4: and say, listen, I'm playing well for you. I'm probably

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Speaker 4: going to play at the World Cup this summer and

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Speaker 4: play well. The price isn't going down. He's in a

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Speaker 4: really really powerful position, I think for a player. And

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Speaker 4: so you know, what's the rush, what's the rush to

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Speaker 4: get a new deal done? Make sure you're getting the

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Speaker 4: most out of this moment.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So, Tabo, I was gonna ask you, if you

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Speaker 3: were advising Western right now, what would be on the

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Speaker 3: top of your mind. Would you say Hey, let's play

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Speaker 3: this out to the World Cup and banking on the

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Speaker 3: market being strong and coming off of a fresh World

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Speaker 3: Cup and being a free agent. Or if there's the

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Speaker 3: right offer on the table now that say it's from England,

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Speaker 3: do you just sign it? And then that also risks

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Speaker 3: the locker room political side of things, where particularly with

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Speaker 3: Italian clubs, if you sign a pre contract somewhere else,

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Speaker 3: you seem to fall out of the rotation on the field.

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Speaker 1: Well, I mean those are all good points, right, because

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Speaker 1: I'll start with this by saying that I'm shocked that

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Speaker 1: you event just let it go this long, right because

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Speaker 1: as Paul's talking about leverage, you vent this has no

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Speaker 1: leverage right now really except for playing time.

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Speaker 2: That's all they have left.

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Speaker 1: And Western's having a good season, He's having a good

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Speaker 1: season for a top, top club in the world. You

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Speaker 1: vent this as a top club. And I think I'm

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Speaker 1: sure he's got tons of offers. So I at this point,

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Speaker 1: considering that you know Wesson can leave for free in

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Speaker 1: the summer, I can't imagine that he's going to come

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Speaker 1: back to Juventus because I think the offers that he's

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Speaker 1: he has on the table without a transfer, they have

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Speaker 1: to be huge. And so you know, to answer your

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Speaker 1: other question in terms of should he wait until the

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Speaker 1: summer and see if the World Cup and if he

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Speaker 1: does well, I would not wait until this summer.

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Speaker 2: This is the time.

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Speaker 1: You know the iron's hot, he has all the leverage,

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Speaker 1: he likely has a ton of offers, match all the

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Speaker 1: offers up against each other and get the most money

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Speaker 1: you can.

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Speaker 2: And it's likely not going to be at Juventus.

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Speaker 3: And with that, and tap to your point, when Cincinnati

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Speaker 3: we're chasing him hard in the summer of twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 3: I don't know the exact value of his Juventus contract,

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Speaker 3: but Paul, you can jump in here. I'm fairly certain

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Speaker 3: that Cincinnati's offer would be at least double of what

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Speaker 3: he's getting paid right now, maybe even a little bit more.

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Speaker 3: Maybe they were asking for a little bit more. And

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Speaker 3: we all know the money in the Premier League is

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Speaker 3: going to at least has the potential to be more

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Speaker 3: than Juventus. So not just the leverage of this contract

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Speaker 3: being walked down, it's the financial leverage of like he

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Speaker 3: knows if it's likely staying in Europe or if it

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Speaker 3: is going if it's going back to MS, I'll probably

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Speaker 3: where the most money is because the only way you're

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Speaker 3: gonna convince him to come to MLS right now is

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Speaker 3: with a huge contract. But the English offers are going

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Speaker 3: to be higher than Juventus in all likelihoods. So Paul,

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Speaker 3: what else can you feel in on that?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean it's down to what Weston McKenny wants.

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Speaker 4: You know, where do you put your priority? Is it

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Speaker 4: just on money? Is it just on finances, because if

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Speaker 4: it's just about the money, you're right, it'll probably be

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Speaker 4: MLS that has the highest financial offer. Is it a

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Speaker 4: mix of the best financial offer with the best level

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Speaker 4: that you can play at, because again you're right, Premier

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Speaker 4: League teams are going to pay more than you've is

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Speaker 4: more than likely. Does he want to play Champions League football?

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Speaker 4: What does he want out of the next phase of

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Speaker 4: his career because he's entering essentially right now the kind

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Speaker 4: of prime moment. You know, the next year or two three,

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Speaker 4: we're seeing him play as best soccer. This is when

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Speaker 4: he should be playing his best soccer. So where does

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Speaker 4: he want to do that? You know what's interesting about

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Speaker 4: Weston is like there's two sides of his personality from

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Speaker 4: from a distance, and you know, I've gotten to know

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Speaker 4: him a little bit. His family have done a couple

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Speaker 4: of stories. You know, I think that Weston has this

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Speaker 4: kind of laid back personality and approach that can rub

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Speaker 4: people wrong sometimes. But he also is the type of

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Speaker 4: player that he likes getting pushed. He likes to kind

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Speaker 4: of get that motivation and prove people wrong. And he's

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Speaker 4: done it year after year after you year at Juve.

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Speaker 4: And I also wonder whether that factors into the back

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Speaker 4: of his mind that every preseason for the last couple

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Speaker 4: of years he showed up at Juve, no parking spot,

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Speaker 4: no locker room, no locker in the locker room. Now

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Speaker 4: he's like, oh, now you want me, Now you want

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Speaker 4: to keep me around? Like no, Like where when did

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Speaker 4: you buy that loyalty over the last few years? Like

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Speaker 4: that wasn't there. So you know, it'll be interesting to

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Speaker 4: see which way Western goes with this. But you know,

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Speaker 4: my gut, I for a long time I thought he's

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Speaker 4: gonna go down Mols. He's kind of the right guy.

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Speaker 4: He'll go in this moment. But I feel like the

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Speaker 4: way he's playing and kind of sensing that he's touching

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Speaker 4: this this next level of his quality. I wonder whether

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Speaker 4: that'll just intrigue him of you know, can I go

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Speaker 4: to another big club and and and push this form

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Speaker 4: to the next next tier, you know.

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Speaker 3: So that that's where I was at too, Like sorry, sorry, tap,

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Speaker 3: like that I would have expected twenty twenty four. I

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Speaker 3: thought that since he was gonna happen because they have

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Speaker 3: all the money and all of that, and I just

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Speaker 3: didn't And now I would also say, I'm assuming he

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Speaker 3: says the name of it.

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Speaker 1: No, yeah, I was just gonna not repeat what Paul said,

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Speaker 1: but follow on that because I you know, obviously I

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Speaker 1: know Weston as a person as well, and I think

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Speaker 1: I think he'll likely have a little bit of a

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Speaker 1: chip on his shoulder about you know, the EPL, and

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Speaker 1: that the fact that he was there and that you know,

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Speaker 1: he'll want to prove to everybody that he can be

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Speaker 1: a big player there too, and I would love to

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Speaker 1: see that. I would love for him to be able

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Speaker 1: to get a shot to go back to the EPL,

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Speaker 1: and because I think he can do well there.

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Speaker 3: I would agree. Last one here, Senegal has won the

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Speaker 3: AFCAN and why that ties into the national team is

386
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Speaker 3: because Senegal or the penultimate opponent for the United States

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Speaker 3: before the World Cup. As tab here is rubbing the

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Speaker 3: towel that the ball boys, the Moroccan ball boys tried

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Speaker 3: to steal from the Senegalese goalkeeper. There's too much to

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Speaker 3: catch up on to try to even run it down

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Speaker 3: here from the craziness of that game that included a

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Speaker 3: couple of dubious refereeing decisions, a the Senegal players leaving

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Speaker 3: the field going back to the locker room, there being

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Speaker 3: a delay between the penalty called and stoppage sim from

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Speaker 3: Morocco by about twenty minutes to whin they took the

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Speaker 3: penalty they tried at Pananka, they saved it, They go

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Speaker 3: to extra time, Senegal wins. All along the way, the

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Speaker 3: Senegalese backup goalkeeper is standing next to the goal at

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Speaker 3: all times because the game. It was raining during the game,

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Speaker 3: and every time that Mendy would grab his towel throw

401
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Speaker 3: it back, the Moroccan ballboys or a Moroccan player would

402
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Speaker 3: come over and try to steal the towel. So it

403
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Speaker 3: ended up with the Senegal's backup goalkeeper just standing next

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Speaker 3: to the goal holding the towel. And it wasn't the

405
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Speaker 3: attempts to take the towel got less and less cloaked.

406
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Speaker 3: It just became like trying to do tug of war.

407
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Speaker 3: And apparently the referees were just okay with this. This

408
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Speaker 3: is all insane. Tap go in any direction you want

409
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Speaker 3: from here, because I don't even know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I'll start by saying that it was

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Speaker 1: a great tournament. You know that we saw great teams. Uh,

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Speaker 1: it was really a fun tournament to watch, how dynamic

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Speaker 1: the team were, teams were, the speed of transition of

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Speaker 1: the teams, and the fun that it that it was

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Speaker 1: to watch teams like Morocco play because we've we've been

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Speaker 1: watching Morocco sort of develop over the last six seven

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Speaker 1: years into a little bit of a world power, right

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Speaker 1: they were, they were at the top of their game,

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Speaker 1: and and we expected a tournament like this, and so

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Speaker 1: you know, unfortunately, you know, Morocco being h is going

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Speaker 1: to be a you know, fortunately because of what happened,

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Speaker 1: we start thinking about Morocco being a World Cup host,

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Speaker 1: you know, the next World Cup. You know, the situation

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Speaker 1: with with the goalkeeper, you know, for goalkeepers, it's always

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Speaker 1: important for them to have a towel. And again i'll

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Speaker 1: take the disclaimer on me not knowing much about goalkeeping.

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Speaker 3: Tony proven you're not caring.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so, yeah, well it's a little bit more of that.

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Speaker 1: But I do know that the goalkeepers have like to

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Speaker 1: have their gloves just wet enough but not too wet,

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Speaker 1: so that they get a good grip on the ball right,

432
00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:37,600
Speaker 1: and so it's important for them to have a towel

433
00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:39,960
Speaker 1: on the side of the goal. And I think, you know,

434
00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:42,679
Speaker 1: apparently what happened in the final was that you know,

435
00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:45,479
Speaker 1: the not only the bull boys, but there were some

436
00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:48,280
Speaker 1: administrators on the side of the goal fighting with a

437
00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:52,360
Speaker 1: backup goalkeeper who was trying to protect the starting goalkeeper's

438
00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:55,399
Speaker 1: towel from just being on the side of the goal.

439
00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:59,080
Speaker 1: And apparently that the final was not the only game

440
00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:01,640
Speaker 1: where it happened, that it had happened in other games

441
00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:06,119
Speaker 1: that Morocco participated in. You know, I think this is

442
00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:12,239
Speaker 1: serious and it's embarrassing really for Morocco that, you know,

443
00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:15,200
Speaker 1: a country that has come so far in terms of soccer,

444
00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:19,880
Speaker 1: that has beautiful stadiums now, that has an amazing team,

445
00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:22,800
Speaker 1: and that really had a great tournament all the way

446
00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:25,160
Speaker 1: up until the final, although in the final they didn't

447
00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:29,480
Speaker 1: play well at all. It leaves us with that image

448
00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:32,639
Speaker 1: of what's going on over there? Is this serious? Are

449
00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:35,359
Speaker 1: they serious about hosting events or are they not serious?

450
00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:38,800
Speaker 1: Because what happened with the goalkeeper situation and then with

451
00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:41,960
Speaker 1: the Senegal team, you know, walking off the field when

452
00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:45,359
Speaker 1: the penalty kick was called. There were a lot of

453
00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:48,200
Speaker 1: situations there that we can dig into that we could

454
00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:51,720
Speaker 1: potentially talk for hours because what happened with the Senegal

455
00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:55,639
Speaker 1: team in the ninety seventh minute when the penalty kick

456
00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:58,080
Speaker 1: there was a penalty kick on a zero zero game,

457
00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:01,720
Speaker 1: final seven minute of the game and a plus eight

458
00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:05,160
Speaker 1: right the referee had given an extra eight minutes, ninety

459
00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:10,320
Speaker 1: seventh minute penalty kick against Senegal, which was you know,

460
00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:12,480
Speaker 1: you go to var it was a penalty, it's a foul,

461
00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:16,240
Speaker 1: it's a penalty. The Senegal team, the Senegal coach calls

462
00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:18,639
Speaker 1: this team off the field. The game was delayed for

463
00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:23,679
Speaker 1: fifteen minutes. Before you know, Senegal came back on the field.

464
00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:25,919
Speaker 1: Thank you to Money because he pulled his team right

465
00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:30,160
Speaker 1: back on the field and showed great leadership. The penalty

466
00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:32,600
Speaker 1: kick was saved, but the whole thing was embarrassing. I

467
00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:35,600
Speaker 1: can't believe we had to watch that and it's unfortunate

468
00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:37,879
Speaker 1: because the rest of the tournament was truly great.

469
00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:43,240
Speaker 3: Paul, moving past the final, just more focused on the

470
00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:45,359
Speaker 3: United States preparation for the World Cup. What will the

471
00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:49,160
Speaker 3: Senegalese team do in terms of obviously they were really

472
00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:51,720
Speaker 3: really quality opposition, but in terms of preparing the United

473
00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:53,320
Speaker 3: States and it being a big test right before the

474
00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:54,040
Speaker 3: World Cup.

475
00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:55,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, well, first of all, shout out to

476
00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:58,160
Speaker 4: Tom King and the team there at US Soccer. They've

477
00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:00,879
Speaker 4: been nailing their friendlies. They get pair of the Pataguay

478
00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:03,399
Speaker 4: and Australia who end up being group of opponents, and

479
00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:07,200
Speaker 4: now they pick the winner of uh in Senegal u uh.

480
00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:09,480
Speaker 4: And this was the goal, right for these games is

481
00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:11,840
Speaker 4: you want the best World Cup opponents that you can

482
00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:14,480
Speaker 4: get to prepare the team right, and you want to

483
00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:18,119
Speaker 4: face teams that play different styles. So they've been trying

484
00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:21,320
Speaker 4: to schedule these friendlies from different continents because at the

485
00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:24,720
Speaker 4: World Cup, obviously that's what it's all about. So you know,

486
00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:27,480
Speaker 4: you're going to get a really good Senegalese team now

487
00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:30,359
Speaker 4: that has is going to be filled with confidence going

488
00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:32,760
Speaker 4: into the tournament, is going to be coming and bringing

489
00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:35,440
Speaker 4: their best and I think putting on a show.

490
00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:36,000
Speaker 2: You know.

491
00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:39,680
Speaker 4: They they're they're a fun team to watch play, and

492
00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:43,879
Speaker 4: I think the US needs to play different styles of

493
00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:47,520
Speaker 4: of opponents, so it's going to be different, you know,

494
00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:50,800
Speaker 4: playing that game in Charlotte as the like you said,

495
00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:53,280
Speaker 4: the penultimate game, and then coming here to Germany, to

496
00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:56,119
Speaker 4: Chicago where I live and playing Germany a much different

497
00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:59,400
Speaker 4: style of football. That's what you want going into the tournament,

498
00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:02,440
Speaker 4: you you know, I'm sure Pochetino will try different tactics,

499
00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:05,760
Speaker 4: different ideas in both of those friendlies, different ways to defend,

500
00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:08,159
Speaker 4: so that the US is ready to go once the

501
00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:09,119
Speaker 4: group stage starts.

502
00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:11,840
Speaker 3: I'm certainly looking forward to it. And like you said,

503
00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:14,320
Speaker 3: this has been a really good run of strong friendlies

504
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:17,239
Speaker 3: dating back to you know, September, October, November, I think

505
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:19,560
Speaker 3: they nailed all six of those opponents, and again moving

506
00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:22,520
Speaker 3: forward in March and then in May right before the

507
00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:24,760
Speaker 3: World Cup. So that is credit where credit is do.

508
00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:26,880
Speaker 3: It got a little easier as World Cup qualifying ended,

509
00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:29,560
Speaker 3: so there's more opponents on the board. Well done to US,

510
00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:31,520
Speaker 3: M and T. But it's time for a really quick break.

511
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:32,879
Speaker 3: We'll be right back and we're going to get to

512
00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:36,160
Speaker 3: Paul's top five most important US men's national team things

513
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:38,600
Speaker 3: to watch it for the World Cup. Please rate, review,

514
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:41,320
Speaker 3: and subscribe to Inside American Soccer with Tom Boger, Tabra Amas,

515
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:55,320
Speaker 3: wherever you get your podcast. Welcome back to Inside American Soccer.

516
00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:58,520
Speaker 3: Let's get straight into it. Paul came with a little

517
00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:00,399
Speaker 3: bit of homework now that he's a soon to be

518
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:03,080
Speaker 3: a published author, so he had to be like a

519
00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:05,600
Speaker 3: student here like a professor. He's going to give us

520
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 3: his five most important things to watch for the US

521
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:09,959
Speaker 3: MNT ahead of the World Cup. Paul kick us off

522
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:10,560
Speaker 3: with number five.

523
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:14,440
Speaker 4: All right, Number five is the back line battles. Things

524
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:17,240
Speaker 4: have changed with the way the US plays and that

525
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:20,240
Speaker 4: style fits kind of a wing back system. So we've

526
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:23,240
Speaker 4: seen Max Arvesten starting at left wing back left back

527
00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:27,000
Speaker 4: for most of the last year. But Anthony Robinson is back.

528
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:29,199
Speaker 4: How quickly does he jump back into the picture for

529
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:32,439
Speaker 4: the US. The assumption is, of course he'll be the starter.

530
00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:36,560
Speaker 4: But Pochattino's whole kind of ethos is don't assume anything,

531
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:39,200
Speaker 4: and so I'm not going to assume that Anthony Robinson

532
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,400
Speaker 4: just takes that starting job right back without a fight

533
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:44,680
Speaker 4: for Max Arsten. The other side is even more intriguing

534
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 4: for me. You've got Sergenio Deak who seems like a

535
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:50,160
Speaker 4: perfect natural fit for that position, but with the way

536
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:52,720
Speaker 4: the US is playing right now, Tim weya also is

537
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:56,760
Speaker 4: probably slotted in that position, So you've got dest against Weeya.

538
00:24:57,119 --> 00:25:00,040
Speaker 4: And then Alex Freeman, who we thought would be a

539
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:03,479
Speaker 4: another player to kind of provide depth behind desk, but

540
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:06,680
Speaker 4: he started at the right back slash right center back

541
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:10,000
Speaker 4: hybrid position in the last friendly for the US, played

542
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:13,120
Speaker 4: really well there and then scored again in the Uruguay game.

543
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:16,399
Speaker 4: So you know, there are some interesting battles at play here.

544
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:20,000
Speaker 4: I think it's very well worth watching how Anthony Robinson

545
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:22,600
Speaker 4: continues to play coming back from his knee injury, and

546
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:26,119
Speaker 4: what happens in that desk versus way a matchup for

547
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:27,640
Speaker 4: the starting job with the right side.

548
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:28,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, agreed.

549
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 1: I mean, I think these are rich people problems that

550
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 1: we're having on the outside back positions, right, They're good

551
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,200
Speaker 1: problems to have. I think we're very lucky to have

552
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 1: four or five good players wide that could potentially compete

553
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:47,320
Speaker 1: for a position. All that does is make your starter better,

554
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:48,400
Speaker 1: whoever it's.

555
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:48,600
Speaker 2: Going to be.

556
00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:52,200
Speaker 1: I can't imagine that we won't start the World Cup

557
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:55,080
Speaker 1: with Jedi Robinson on one side and Sergenio Desk on

558
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:57,399
Speaker 1: the other. But having said that, that will have to

559
00:25:57,440 --> 00:25:59,160
Speaker 1: be at their best to be able to do that,

560
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:00,600
Speaker 1: and that's a good for us.

561
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:04,720
Speaker 3: Paul really really quickly, is there any chance that you

562
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:07,560
Speaker 3: could see Anthony Robinson playing left sided center back in

563
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 3: in a hybrid way where he's able to get forward

564
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:12,239
Speaker 3: first Reto Pochettino group or don't even consider it?

565
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:14,719
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I think to Tab's point is this

566
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:16,840
Speaker 4: is a good dilemma, a good question to be asking.

567
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:19,360
Speaker 4: We haven't had Anthony Robinson healthy for a year as

568
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:21,880
Speaker 4: this formation change has happened, and Tim Reim has been

569
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:24,840
Speaker 4: the stalwart on that left center back position. I would

570
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 4: imagine that Pochettino will want Reim on the field. He's

571
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:30,760
Speaker 4: trusted him so much since he's taken over. He's worn

572
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 4: the captain's arm band for the vast majority of games

573
00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:37,280
Speaker 4: under Pochettino. But again, this gives you options. When you

574
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 4: have all of your players hopefully healthy and playing well,

575
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 4: now you can start to tinker. It's why we saw

576
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:47,080
Speaker 4: Desk starting with Freeman inside of him against Uraguayan against

577
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 4: Padaguay and it worked really well. So this is what

578
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,960
Speaker 4: we might see a little bit of experimenting come March

579
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 4: of You know, what is the right mix of guys

580
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:55,880
Speaker 4: on the back line?

581
00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:56,760
Speaker 2: All right?

582
00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:57,359
Speaker 3: Number four?

583
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:01,119
Speaker 4: Number four is the number nine depth chart for me.

584
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 4: When Balagan is healthy, he is the starter. The US

585
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:06,240
Speaker 4: has looked different when he's on the field. They've looked

586
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 4: more dynamic, they've looked dangerous. I think he is the

587
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,720
Speaker 4: best number nine in the pool. But Riccardo Peppi broke

588
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 4: his arm and that has opened the door behind him.

589
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:18,240
Speaker 4: You know, will Patrick Adamon get back into the picture?

590
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 4: He scored a goal on the weekend. Is it going

591
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:22,640
Speaker 4: to be Hoji Wright? You know, Josh Sargent has kind

592
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:24,880
Speaker 4: of fallen off. He hasn't scored for the US since

593
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:27,680
Speaker 4: twenty nineteen. Would a move to MLS change that? I'm

594
00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:30,560
Speaker 4: not so sure. But we now have to watch all

595
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 4: of those strikers behind Balagan to say, you know who,

596
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:35,080
Speaker 4: first of all is going to be the third striker

597
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:38,160
Speaker 4: on the roster. But you know, does Ricardo Peppy once

598
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:39,880
Speaker 4: again miss out on a World Cup if he can't

599
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 4: get healthy back on the field and scoring in time

600
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:44,440
Speaker 4: to Tab's point earlier. This is a problem that the

601
00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:47,400
Speaker 4: US should be thankful for that they you know, hopefully

602
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:50,200
Speaker 4: have four or five strikers scoring goals and that could

603
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:52,439
Speaker 4: be options. But I'm keeping an eye on a Jaman

604
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 4: and Haji right especially over the next couple months.

605
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:57,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would agree on that. You know.

606
00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 1: If anything, we're happy to see that best is playing

607
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:03,639
Speaker 1: really well, you know, and he plays Madrid next, so

608
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:06,160
Speaker 1: that's uh, it's not like he's going to go backwards

609
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:08,679
Speaker 1: from here. It's a good sign for us that the

610
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 1: I think the number nine position is settled. I think

611
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:14,359
Speaker 1: in the end, I think once Pepi gets back on

612
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:16,800
Speaker 1: the field, let's not forget that it is an arm injury.

613
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:19,560
Speaker 1: Let's not forget that although he won't be on the

614
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:22,639
Speaker 1: field for a while, he likely will be training a

615
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:25,080
Speaker 1: little bit sooner because they will be able to protect

616
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:26,960
Speaker 1: the arm in such a way so that he can

617
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:30,359
Speaker 1: get training in so fitness will not be an issue

618
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:32,960
Speaker 1: as it would potentially be with a lower leg injury.

619
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:36,520
Speaker 1: So I you know, I think Peppi and Baligan will

620
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 1: go and I think as a third forward it's going

621
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:42,080
Speaker 1: to be a battle between Hajji Wright and and ajimn

622
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:44,960
Speaker 1: that's sort of how I see it at this point.

623
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 3: I could see them bringing four, particularly given how much

624
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:52,960
Speaker 3: different Patrick Aajumong the physicality is from from the other forwards,

625
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:55,960
Speaker 3: and there is at least a possibility that you could

626
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,880
Speaker 3: play two center forwards with each other at some point.

627
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 3: So I think that if we're getting down like roster

628
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 3: spots twenty four to twenty five to twenty six, probably

629
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:06,960
Speaker 3: value in bringing a fourth forward, particularly when one of

630
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:09,080
Speaker 3: them is likely going to be Patri Gojamong who is

631
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:11,520
Speaker 3: different from the others rather than just you know, if

632
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,959
Speaker 3: it was Josh Arge Riccardo Peppy. There's enough similarities there

633
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,160
Speaker 3: where Peppy's probably been better with the national team versus like, okay,

634
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:20,440
Speaker 3: like there's a different profile here to change the game

635
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 3: if we need it. But that's kind of going to

636
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:24,719
Speaker 3: be very very interesting. These feel like the same questions

637
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:26,960
Speaker 3: going all the way back into qualification for the twenty

638
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:29,920
Speaker 3: twenty two World Cup. No firm answer, but Balgan has

639
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 3: certainly helped that one out. Paul number three well quickly.

640
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 3: One small note on that, I think you're you're right

641
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 3: that there's the window to do it. With Hoji right

642
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 3: able to play a winger but Brendan Aronson's form in

643
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 3: the Premier League has changed the dynamic and the competition

644
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 3: at that forward position with when you're factoring in wingers

645
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 3: at number nine. So you know, it's interesting to see

646
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:50,720
Speaker 3: how that'll play out with how you think about your

647
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:52,600
Speaker 3: depth chart, because he was a guy who I thought

648
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:54,800
Speaker 3: was on the fringe and maybe is now playing his

649
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:57,240
Speaker 3: way onto the World Cup roster number three. For me,

650
00:29:57,600 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 3: we're starting to get into the more interesting stuff now,

651
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,800
Speaker 3: goalkeeper battle, you know, is it a battle? I think

652
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:05,000
Speaker 3: like we are saying it's a battle. I don't know

653
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 3: that anyone in the US STAP is saying it's a battle.

654
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:09,560
Speaker 3: Matt Freeze is the number one, he's been the number

655
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 3: one for Pochettino. But I did have a chat with

656
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 3: Matt Turner earlier this offseason when he was at the

657
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 3: MLS Media Day. He seems intent, intent as he should

658
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 3: be on trying to play his way back into the

659
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 3: goal for the US men's national team for the World Cup.

660
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 3: So what am I watching going into the March window

661
00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 3: and coming out of it. Matt Turner's form in New England.

662
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:31,080
Speaker 3: Does he get a shot to play one of those

663
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 3: two games in March. Is this a goalkeeper battle or

664
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:37,160
Speaker 3: is Pochettino's putting Matt Freeze in both of those friendlies

665
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:39,120
Speaker 3: and saying you are the guy for the World Cup.

666
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:42,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean those are all good points, obviously.

667
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 1: I think if there is one thing that actually two

668
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:49,479
Speaker 1: things that Pochettino has shown us so far. One is

669
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:51,800
Speaker 1: that he really trust him Reim on the field, and

670
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:55,040
Speaker 1: two is that he trust Freeze to be his goalkeepers.

671
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:57,320
Speaker 1: And that's a good place to be when you're a coach.

672
00:30:57,600 --> 00:30:59,960
Speaker 1: You know you're only six months removed from the World Cup.

673
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:03,120
Speaker 1: You've been trusting the goalkeeper. He's been delivering for you,

674
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 1: and I don't really see competition for him going forward now.

675
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:09,480
Speaker 1: Of course, the goalkeeping position, you're only a mistake or

676
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 1: two away from losing your spot, right, so we have

677
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:15,960
Speaker 1: to see how you Freeze will do over the next

678
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:18,720
Speaker 1: three four months in the league once the league gets going.

679
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:21,800
Speaker 1: But I don't see that being a hard competition. Having

680
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:24,320
Speaker 1: said that, I think there's a huge value to having

681
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 1: Turner there. I'm rooting for Turner to have a good

682
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 1: spring because he needs it number one, because potentially he

683
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 1: could be off the roster if he doesn't. Right and

684
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 1: I think his experience there because he played in the

685
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 1: last World Cup, will be a great value to have

686
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:42,160
Speaker 1: at the very least on the bench. And then it'll

687
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 1: be it'll be a matter of whether Pochettino wants to

688
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:47,560
Speaker 1: go with Chelt Brady or even a Coachen as a

689
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:50,920
Speaker 1: younger player potentially for the future. So but I think

690
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:53,760
Speaker 1: the number one position is pretty much sealed at this point.

691
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:57,120
Speaker 3: Matt Matt Freeze has started each of the last twelve

692
00:31:57,200 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 3: USM and T games and twelve of the last thirteen.

693
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:01,400
Speaker 3: And this is a year in which what seventy one

694
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:03,160
Speaker 3: players were called up. This was a year of a

695
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 3: lot of experimentation, a lot of change. The one spot

696
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:07,840
Speaker 3: that didn't change or one of two maybe with like

697
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:09,560
Speaker 3: you said with Tim Reem, one of the spots that

698
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:12,040
Speaker 3: didn't James was goalkeeper Matt Freeze. So he's got a

699
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:14,400
Speaker 3: huge lead. But I'm excited for Matt Turner. I think

700
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:15,960
Speaker 3: he's just gonna be one of the best goalkeepers and

701
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,240
Speaker 3: him last again, I hope that he gets right because

702
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 3: when he was leaving New England to go to England,

703
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:24,200
Speaker 3: literally the best or second best shot stopper I've seen

704
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:26,440
Speaker 3: over the last decade in this league, and the numbers

705
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 3: back that up. And he went to England and they

706
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 3: tried to make him play with his feet too much

707
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:31,719
Speaker 3: and his brain broke a little bit. So I'm excited

708
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 3: to see the best of Matt Turner again. But Paul

709
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 3: go on to number.

710
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:37,520
Speaker 4: Two, number two, What is Wes and mckenney's role in

711
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:40,360
Speaker 4: this US team? This is the player that I was

712
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 4: watching to say, could he be somebody who actually becomes

713
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 4: the shot guy left off of the roster? Where is

714
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 4: he going to fit into this? I think he's playing

715
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 4: too well, first of all, left off of this course,

716
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:53,320
Speaker 4: but with the way the US midfield plays, I'm interested

717
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 4: to see how Pochattino sees him. You know, he likes

718
00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 4: to roam, he likes to push forward. He's not a

719
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:01,680
Speaker 4: guy who wants to just sit and kind of be disciplined,

720
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 4: and so in some ways he's actually a better fit

721
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 4: to play as the second number ten next to Christian Polisic,

722
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:11,160
Speaker 4: which would put him into a position battle with Molick Tillman,

723
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:15,440
Speaker 4: Brendan Aronson potentially Gee Arena. You know, I think there's

724
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:19,040
Speaker 4: some validity to playing Wesson in that higher position. If

725
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:21,400
Speaker 4: you play with a true number six or another midfielder

726
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:24,239
Speaker 4: willing to sit behind Tyler Adams. I think you can

727
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:27,640
Speaker 4: actually get what Tyler Adams is best at on the field,

728
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:30,920
Speaker 4: which is allowing Tyler to roam and break things up,

729
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 4: break up passing lanes, get stuck in, you know, find

730
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 4: ways to kind of press and cause problems. So for me,

731
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:41,160
Speaker 4: Tyler Adams Tanner Tessaman feels like the more natural fit.

732
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:44,680
Speaker 4: But that means Weston's in a real battle to start

733
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:49,040
Speaker 4: up in the higher position, or does when it comes

734
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 4: down to its Tino say, no, we're going with kind

735
00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 4: of a very similar midfield to what Creig Burhalter sometimes ran,

736
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:58,719
Speaker 4: that three man midfield, only with Christian Polisic inside as

737
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:01,120
Speaker 4: the number ten. This time around, I'll be very interested

738
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 4: to see what west mckennie's role is come March.

739
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, same here, and you know, and if anything, Pushatino

740
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:10,080
Speaker 1: has surprised us time and time again, so I wouldn't

741
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 1: be shocked to even see McKinney on the right side.

742
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:12,399
Speaker 2: Right.

743
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:16,120
Speaker 1: We saw it with Musa and I think didn't belong there,

744
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:18,880
Speaker 1: but but he was there. And McKinny has done it

745
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:21,359
Speaker 1: for Juventus, so it wouldn't be a complete shock that

746
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:23,800
Speaker 1: McKenny could potentially be on the right side.

747
00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 2: Haven't said that.

748
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:29,520
Speaker 1: I can't, you know, in watching McKenny play, I can't

749
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:31,239
Speaker 1: imagine this team without him.

750
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:34,080
Speaker 2: I mean, he just has too much to offer. You know.

751
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:37,239
Speaker 2: We've discussed before how he's likely.

752
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 1: One of the only eights that we have that can

753
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 1: end inside the six yard box of the opposing team,

754
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:46,960
Speaker 1: and there's a huge value to that. And so although

755
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:50,160
Speaker 1: he would be what we're saying here is that potentially

756
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:54,520
Speaker 1: he's he's competing with Tillman as that connector, you know,

757
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:59,840
Speaker 1: distributor creator, and he's not that he brings another component

758
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:03,720
Speaker 1: it as let's say Bellingham would bring to Real Madrid.

759
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:06,080
Speaker 1: Right He's the guy that comes from behind and ends

760
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:08,400
Speaker 1: in the box for the header or to finish a play,

761
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:11,120
Speaker 1: and there's a huge value to that. So it's really

762
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:15,880
Speaker 1: interesting what Pochettino has can do with this. But ultimately

763
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:18,320
Speaker 1: I think we need to find them on the field,

764
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:21,480
Speaker 1: and I agree with Paul that the best combination behind

765
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:24,080
Speaker 1: him would be Adams and Testament.

766
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 3: So I think this is extremely fascinating and I've kind

767
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:31,680
Speaker 3: of changed my own view on this as performances and

768
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:34,719
Speaker 3: form has changed, and we'll do this probably ten more

769
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:36,719
Speaker 3: times before the opening game of the World Cup. But

770
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:41,399
Speaker 3: my initial contention was I don't think he makes sense

771
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:43,399
Speaker 3: as the partner at Taler Adams are all the reasons

772
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:45,279
Speaker 3: that you guys laid out. He is not best if

773
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:47,359
Speaker 3: you're asking him to sit and hold a space. He's

774
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 3: best when he's roaming and attacking, but so is Tyler Adams.

775
00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:53,640
Speaker 3: And in this he's would be better as like a

776
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:55,399
Speaker 3: central midfielder and an eight and a four to three

777
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:58,160
Speaker 3: three than in the three four two one because there's

778
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 3: one less central midfielder and those playlayers have to be

779
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:04,680
Speaker 3: so disciplined and considering the space and dominating the space,

780
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:07,359
Speaker 3: whereas Wesson is best when he can roam and fill

781
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:10,239
Speaker 3: in wherever he needs to go. His engine is intellect

782
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:13,239
Speaker 3: all the things. And I would have said he doesn't

783
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:15,480
Speaker 3: give enough an attacking punch to be like the second

784
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:18,600
Speaker 3: number ten with Poolsick. I think I've changed my mind

785
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:21,680
Speaker 3: on that at this point because we're gonna get a

786
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:27,160
Speaker 3: lot of attacking from Desk Orwea or Arson or Robinson,

787
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:29,680
Speaker 3: and it's gonna hinge on them. And I do still

788
00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:32,399
Speaker 3: think that there's a slope where you know McKenny isn't

789
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:35,120
Speaker 3: doing enough to be that second number ten, But I

790
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:36,840
Speaker 3: think at this moment I would have him in the

791
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:39,480
Speaker 3: starting eleven, ahead of Tilman, next to Pulls.

792
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:42,600
Speaker 4: Yeah. I mean to Tab's point earlier too. When you

793
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:46,720
Speaker 4: have an attack that is based around wing backs getting forward,

794
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:48,799
Speaker 4: getting on the ball and the overlap looking to serve

795
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:51,200
Speaker 4: into the box, having a guy like Weston who's arriving

796
00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:53,280
Speaker 4: late into the box, who's got a nose for goal

797
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:55,880
Speaker 4: on crosses, that might be the type of player you

798
00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:58,000
Speaker 4: want out there on the field. So you know, part

799
00:36:58,040 --> 00:36:59,839
Speaker 4: of it will be kind of what he wants out

800
00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:03,120
Speaker 4: of the US attack. I thought Tillman and Baligan played

801
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:05,560
Speaker 4: really well together when they were on the field. Again,

802
00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:08,239
Speaker 4: another good problem to have, but one that has a

803
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:10,799
Speaker 4: ripple effect because if you think you want to play

804
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:12,200
Speaker 4: west them on the field no matter what, and you

805
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:14,960
Speaker 4: play him deeper, Tyler Adams becomes a different type of

806
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:17,160
Speaker 4: player in midfield when he's paired with Wes McKinney. So

807
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:20,400
Speaker 4: you know, all of these little seemingly little decisions or

808
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 4: singular decisions, they're not singular. It affects everything about how

809
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:26,239
Speaker 4: the team plays and how each player's role kind of

810
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:27,520
Speaker 4: fits within the bigger picture.

811
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:30,880
Speaker 3: And with that, what is your number one thing to watch?

812
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:34,520
Speaker 4: Number one for me is the gi Orana situation. You know,

813
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:40,040
Speaker 4: I'm interested to see how Pochettino approaches Giorana in general.

814
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:42,759
Speaker 4: He's got about four hundred minutes in the Bundesliga this

815
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:45,279
Speaker 4: year for Gladbach. That's the most minutes he's had, and

816
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:48,839
Speaker 4: I think the last three seasons he's only surpassed six

817
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 4: hundred minutes once since twenty twenty twenty twenty one. But

818
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:54,439
Speaker 4: even though he's getting on the field a little bit more,

819
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:57,319
Speaker 4: he still isn't producing no goals, no assists, and yet

820
00:37:57,360 --> 00:37:58,960
Speaker 4: he looked really good for the US when he was

821
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:02,080
Speaker 4: on the field. How does Pochettino think about gi Arena

822
00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:04,359
Speaker 4: and this team? What is he looking for from him

823
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:06,440
Speaker 4: on the club level when it comes to production and

824
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:08,759
Speaker 4: playing time? Kind of with the messages that he's given

825
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:11,360
Speaker 4: to the whole group. And obviously Geo does have this

826
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:15,040
Speaker 4: skill set that's always been so intriguing for pretty much

827
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:17,920
Speaker 4: anyone involved in US soccer. I don't know what the

828
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:20,440
Speaker 4: right decision is. I don't know at all where this

829
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:22,880
Speaker 4: one is going to land. Maybe tab you have a

830
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:25,640
Speaker 4: gut instinct of where this goes. But I think this

831
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:28,319
Speaker 4: is kind of the one player that you watch to say,

832
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 4: is this the surprise that gets thrown into the US team?

833
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:33,600
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, you know, and you threw out some

834
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:35,840
Speaker 1: great numbers, right If you're going to look at stats

835
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:38,279
Speaker 1: and numbers, he has no shot.

836
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:41,160
Speaker 2: At making this World Cup team. Haven't said that.

837
00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:43,880
Speaker 1: I think when you look at the players that we

838
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:46,359
Speaker 1: have the quality of players that we have on the team,

839
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:50,279
Speaker 1: and it's leave Christian Polisic aside for a minute here.

840
00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:54,600
Speaker 1: I think there's no player that can create more opportunities

841
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:59,359
Speaker 1: within the final thirty yards of the field in g arena,

842
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:01,319
Speaker 1: and so that's a value to have.

843
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:04,080
Speaker 2: And this is why, you know, a few weeks.

844
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:06,120
Speaker 1: Back, well now about you know, a month and a

845
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:08,719
Speaker 1: half back, when the World Cup draw came out, I

846
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:12,520
Speaker 1: said that the biggest person to benefit from the World

847
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:15,239
Speaker 1: Cup draw is gi Rena because it's likely that in

848
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:18,400
Speaker 1: the World Cup we will have the ball and we

849
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 1: will be in the opposing side of the field, and

850
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:24,000
Speaker 1: that's where Giorina is good with the ball. The reason

851
00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:26,080
Speaker 1: he's not doing well at his club and the reason

852
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:30,200
Speaker 1: we keep you know, saying over and over when when

853
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:33,120
Speaker 1: is Raina breaking out? You know, we've been saying this

854
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:36,399
Speaker 1: since Jurina is fifteen years old. The fact is, I've

855
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:39,359
Speaker 1: watched I think gi Arena enough now to know that

856
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 1: when the game becomes long, when the game becomes you know,

857
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:47,160
Speaker 1: one one side of the field to the other, Grena

858
00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:50,600
Speaker 1: can't get there. Giorna is a half field game, and

859
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:53,000
Speaker 1: we need to be dominating games to be able to

860
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:56,480
Speaker 1: use his quality. And I think because of that, I

861
00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:59,239
Speaker 1: think there's a great value for him. If there are

862
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:01,759
Speaker 1: games in the World Cup and we're dominating and we

863
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:04,280
Speaker 1: need a goal and we need to break a team down,

864
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:06,440
Speaker 1: it's nice for a coach to be able to look

865
00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:09,400
Speaker 1: down the bench and find someone who could potentially be

866
00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:11,719
Speaker 1: a solution to break down the other team. And I

867
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:14,560
Speaker 1: think that's where the value is. Havn't said everything else,

868
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:17,279
Speaker 1: you know, You know, we've been looking at Giorina for

869
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:20,319
Speaker 1: years as a young player who has potential. At some

870
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 1: point you have to stop looking into the future and

871
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:25,560
Speaker 1: say what can you do for us now? And he's

872
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 1: had difficulties with every team in Europe for the last

873
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:29,160
Speaker 1: four or five.

874
00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:33,640
Speaker 3: Years, since the Bundesliga took their winter break. He had

875
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:36,160
Speaker 3: started the final three games before that break. In their

876
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:38,520
Speaker 3: three games since, he's played a total of twenty six minutes.

877
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 3: So it is it is up and down. It feels

878
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:43,440
Speaker 3: like right when he was getting momentum, and like you said, tab,

879
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:46,640
Speaker 3: if it's like we're doing a blind thing where you

880
00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:48,359
Speaker 3: just look at the stats, player a player be, it's

881
00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:50,279
Speaker 3: not going to be him. But we all know what

882
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:52,400
Speaker 3: he's capable of and what he showed for the national

883
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:55,520
Speaker 3: team in November, and I think that as long as

884
00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:57,480
Speaker 3: he's fit, he's going to be on I'd say on

885
00:40:57,480 --> 00:40:59,040
Speaker 3: the plane. I guess technically on the plane he'd have

886
00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:01,359
Speaker 3: to come from Germany. Whether as long as he's fit,

887
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:03,800
Speaker 3: I don't really care what the numbers are, he's probably

888
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:06,280
Speaker 3: going to be on the roster. And we were talking

889
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:08,440
Speaker 3: in November, like, hey, is this guy gonna start, Like

890
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:12,040
Speaker 3: it's the fluctuation with Geo Reina is crazy, Like Paul said,

891
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:14,400
Speaker 3: he just hasn't played that many minutes. And again, really

892
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:17,000
Speaker 3: this is a smaller sample size because of how limited

893
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:19,279
Speaker 3: he's been on the field, but over the last year,

894
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:22,040
Speaker 3: in seven hundred and forty minutes, which again is not

895
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:25,560
Speaker 3: a lot. He is in like the twenty fifth percentile

896
00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:29,400
Speaker 3: or worse in like shot creating actions like expected goals

897
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:33,920
Speaker 3: plus expected assists, shots progressive passes received. That means that

898
00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:36,520
Speaker 3: he's getting on the ball and passing forward like his

899
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:40,640
Speaker 3: progressive carries that play against Mexico that we were talking

900
00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:42,120
Speaker 3: about last week about when you think of a one

901
00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:45,439
Speaker 3: highlight for Gio, it's that incredible run against Mexico. He's

902
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:47,839
Speaker 3: not doing that right now because he doesn't have like

903
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:50,440
Speaker 3: he doesn't either have the capability or trust in his

904
00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:53,600
Speaker 3: hamstrings that that explosion is there. So I don't know.

905
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 3: It is very, very fascinating. But no matter what, all

906
00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 3: this evidence has stacked up, then you watch him against

907
00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:00,680
Speaker 3: Powered Mine, it's like, oh my god, he could be

908
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:02,840
Speaker 3: one of the best players on the field. So it's

909
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:04,680
Speaker 3: a it's a very big wildcard. Give yeah.

910
00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:06,640
Speaker 4: I mean, and it's crazy you you you've mentioned it

911
00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:09,799
Speaker 4: in Passing tavn't I kind of looked over it, but

912
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:11,640
Speaker 4: we shouldn't because this has always been the thing with

913
00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:13,560
Speaker 4: Geo over the last few years. It's staying healthy all

914
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:15,560
Speaker 4: the way till next summer. You know, he hasn't done

915
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:18,759
Speaker 4: that for a full season in five years plus now,

916
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:22,360
Speaker 4: so that'll be the biggest X factor with ge Arena.

917
00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:24,600
Speaker 4: Does he stay healthy and on the field to even

918
00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:28,839
Speaker 4: be in contention? And I hope he does obviously, you know,

919
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:30,319
Speaker 4: and then we can get to the forum and we

920
00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:32,359
Speaker 4: can get to what he brings. But the number one

921
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:35,080
Speaker 4: goal for Geo has to be staying healthy, staying fit,

922
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:37,440
Speaker 4: and building up over the course of Its.

923
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:38,160
Speaker 2: Easy to stay all healthy.

924
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:40,959
Speaker 1: I don't play though, you know, if he's playing very little,

925
00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:42,560
Speaker 1: the fun is easy.

926
00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:44,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right. What do you want to do and

927
00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:46,040
Speaker 4: you want to get on the field or you want

928
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:47,440
Speaker 4: to stay in contention.

929
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:50,320
Speaker 3: As much as things change, they stay the same. I

930
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:52,600
Speaker 3: feel like a lot of these conversations we could beer going,

931
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:54,759
Speaker 3: you know, in twenty twenty one and leading into the

932
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:56,960
Speaker 3: twenty twenty two rook Cup. But thanks for the top

933
00:42:56,960 --> 00:42:59,600
Speaker 3: five there, Paul. Always great to get a perspective from

934
00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:02,080
Speaker 3: somebody who Paul, I think you've been at literally every

935
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:05,839
Speaker 3: single camp for how many years? A decade and at.

936
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 4: Least yeah, five or six years now, I mean twenty

937
00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:09,759
Speaker 4: twenty there were no camps because of COVID, so I

938
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:12,319
Speaker 4: guess it goes back to before twenty nineteen. It's been

939
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:12,680
Speaker 4: a while.

940
00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:15,239
Speaker 3: It's been a while, Boots on the Ground, Capitol j

941
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:18,360
Speaker 3: But again. Paul wrote a book titled The Messy Effect,

942
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:20,200
Speaker 3: How the Global legs and Change the Future of American

943
00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:23,759
Speaker 3: Soccer that is available for pre order wherever books are sold. Paul,

944
00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:25,880
Speaker 3: what was the journey in writing this book and how

945
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:28,560
Speaker 3: many times did it change from Because these are things

946
00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:31,360
Speaker 3: happening in real time and you have your layout, your structure,

947
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:33,200
Speaker 3: the things you want to hit, the interviews, want to

948
00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:34,880
Speaker 3: do and then no, no, no, I need to go

949
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:36,840
Speaker 3: back to Miami again because I need to do this,

950
00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:38,680
Speaker 3: or I need to go to the legal offic Like

951
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:41,680
Speaker 3: how many times it things change? And this process became

952
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:44,400
Speaker 3: really fluid in getting the final product.

953
00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:47,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean it was such an interesting process because

954
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:48,760
Speaker 4: of what you said. I mean, writing a book about

955
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:51,640
Speaker 4: something that's evolving in real time. I knew writing a

956
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:53,480
Speaker 4: book would be difficult and it ended up being the

957
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:56,920
Speaker 4: hardest thing I've done in my life. But choosing something

958
00:43:56,920 --> 00:44:00,840
Speaker 4: that was happening in real time definitely increased the difficulty.

959
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:03,600
Speaker 4: And I would say, like, you know, my idea of

960
00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:05,640
Speaker 4: what the book was going to be for the first year.

961
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:08,080
Speaker 4: After about a year of reporting it. I had to

962
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:10,640
Speaker 4: kind of go back and scrap that idea completely, just

963
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:13,040
Speaker 4: the amount of access I needed. It wasn't happening the

964
00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:15,040
Speaker 4: way I wanted to happen to make the book work

965
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:17,480
Speaker 4: that way. But in the end, I think it ended

966
00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:19,440
Speaker 4: up making it a better book, because this isn't a

967
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:22,600
Speaker 4: book that's just a season in the life of Inner Miami.

968
00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:25,520
Speaker 4: This isn't a book that's a messy biography. You know,

969
00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:28,279
Speaker 4: this is a book that's about where American soccer is

970
00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:32,000
Speaker 4: right now, and what Major League Soccer's place is in

971
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:36,319
Speaker 4: that ecosystem, and how Messy coming to MLS has kind

972
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:39,440
Speaker 4: of altered those dynamics, how it accelerated some of the

973
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:42,920
Speaker 4: conversations that were very necessary for Major League Soccer, and

974
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:47,000
Speaker 4: how MLS's decision making process over the last couple of years,

975
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:50,080
Speaker 4: and what its future looks like could end up changing

976
00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 4: its place in the landscape, and how that would alter

977
00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:54,880
Speaker 4: the landscape. So, you know, I kind of look at

978
00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:56,640
Speaker 4: this as a book that's a mix of a lot

979
00:44:56,640 --> 00:44:59,080
Speaker 4: of things. It's got plenty of behind the scenes of

980
00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:01,760
Speaker 4: MESSI It's got a lot of kind of the business

981
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:04,000
Speaker 4: of soccer and the business of Major League soccer, going

982
00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:08,520
Speaker 4: into the board meetings of owners in Major League Soccer,

983
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:10,640
Speaker 4: and then I think, you know, I always try to

984
00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:13,080
Speaker 4: find the human side of things and to kind of

985
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:15,560
Speaker 4: bring to life who these people are that are making

986
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:18,839
Speaker 4: these decisions. You know what it's like when Messi shows

987
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:21,440
Speaker 4: up in your locker room, all those kind of human aspects.

988
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:24,200
Speaker 4: So I hope I hit on that as well. But

989
00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:26,399
Speaker 4: I think, you know, I tried to blend all three

990
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:29,160
Speaker 4: of those things into one book, and to your point,

991
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:32,000
Speaker 4: it was, you know, it was very challenging sometimes because

992
00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:34,840
Speaker 4: things kept changing, and even at the very end, I

993
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:37,520
Speaker 4: had to pop down straight from DC at the World

994
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:40,080
Speaker 4: Cup draw down to MLS Cup to make sure I

995
00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:42,239
Speaker 4: could be there for Messi winning MLS Cup, to add

996
00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:44,600
Speaker 4: an epilogue to the book so that we didn't miss

997
00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:46,880
Speaker 4: out on that moment in the Messy effect.

998
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:50,240
Speaker 3: And let me say, Paul was on the field during

999
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:52,719
Speaker 3: the from the final whistle on. So there's gonna be

1000
00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:55,799
Speaker 3: some great, great details and color in there. There is.

1001
00:45:56,120 --> 00:45:58,920
Speaker 3: I believe that there's plenty of really excellent books written

1002
00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:02,600
Speaker 3: on around them. I believe there is truly one book

1003
00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:05,200
Speaker 3: that is a must read for all MLS fans, whether

1004
00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:08,560
Speaker 3: you're new, old, or or somewhere in the middle. It's

1005
00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:11,839
Speaker 3: Grant Walls book on David Beckham and him coming here.

1006
00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:14,520
Speaker 3: Paul's book on Liono Messi and how He's changing. That

1007
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:16,360
Speaker 3: is going to be the second absolute must read. He

1008
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:18,640
Speaker 3: hates when I say this. He's the best American soccer

1009
00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:20,239
Speaker 3: writer we have. So if you have any interest in

1010
00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:22,839
Speaker 3: this topic, I promise you this will be time well

1011
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:24,920
Speaker 3: spent reading this book. But we got to take one

1012
00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:26,600
Speaker 3: more quick break. We're gonna be right back. We're gonna

1013
00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:28,640
Speaker 3: ship the focus back to Tab. We're gonna go inside

1014
00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:31,359
Speaker 3: the locker room with Tab ram Us once again. Please rate,

1015
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:34,040
Speaker 3: review and subscribed Inside American Soccer wherever you got your podcast.

1016
00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:47,520
Speaker 3: We'll be right back. Welcome back to in Soide American

1017
00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:50,279
Speaker 3: Soccer and it's time to go inside the locker room.

1018
00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:52,759
Speaker 3: Tab take us back to the nineteen ninety World Cup

1019
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:55,719
Speaker 3: after we spoke about the magical game that was in

1020
00:46:55,719 --> 00:46:58,520
Speaker 3: Trinidad to qualify for the World Cup. Now you get

1021
00:46:58,560 --> 00:46:59,760
Speaker 3: there and take it away.

1022
00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:03,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean this is actually really interesting because you know,

1023
00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:06,040
Speaker 1: we have discussed and many people have discussed over the

1024
00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:09,319
Speaker 1: years about how you know, beating Trinidad and winning that

1025
00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:11,200
Speaker 1: game and getting us for a World to you know,

1026
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:13,840
Speaker 1: finally to a World Cup after forty years of not

1027
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:14,919
Speaker 1: having been in one.

1028
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:16,839
Speaker 2: And as part of.

1029
00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:20,040
Speaker 1: That, obviously we always give sort of ourselves credit for

1030
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:22,880
Speaker 1: being part of a generation of players that got us

1031
00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:25,480
Speaker 1: into this World Cup, and you know how fun that

1032
00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:28,680
Speaker 1: was and how we overcame the challenges and all of

1033
00:47:28,719 --> 00:47:30,920
Speaker 1: the great things that make it for a great movie.

1034
00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:33,319
Speaker 1: But then the fact is now you've got to go

1035
00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:36,759
Speaker 1: and play it right and and so you know, we

1036
00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:39,400
Speaker 1: got drawn up in a group of three European teams

1037
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:43,239
Speaker 1: and that's that's still not easy today. So you can

1038
00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:46,480
Speaker 1: imagine back then how difficult it was for players who

1039
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:49,640
Speaker 1: were really we were really not even professionals, and so

1040
00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:52,480
Speaker 1: to not even be a professional player to go play

1041
00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:58,279
Speaker 1: the World Cup with certainly a monumental task that that

1042
00:47:58,719 --> 00:48:02,160
Speaker 1: we didn't even think about. So our first match was

1043
00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:07,359
Speaker 1: against Czechoslovakia, and this was the Czechoslovakia's Karab who then

1044
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:10,720
Speaker 1: played at Genoa, you know, European Cups and everything else,

1045
00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:14,239
Speaker 1: Beelick who played at Betsy Well, a bunch of they

1046
00:48:14,239 --> 00:48:17,839
Speaker 1: had a bunch of great players. Having said that, we

1047
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:21,879
Speaker 1: were completely not prepared. I mean, if there was, I

1048
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:26,120
Speaker 1: you know, I think I think terms like rude awakening

1049
00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:30,840
Speaker 1: are made because of things like this, right, I think

1050
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:33,799
Speaker 1: those terms are are put together because things like what

1051
00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:36,680
Speaker 1: happened to us actually happened. Uh So, we get on

1052
00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:40,440
Speaker 1: the field against the Czechoslovakian team and we we clearly

1053
00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:46,440
Speaker 1: don't belong in any category, in any category physical, technical,

1054
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:50,239
Speaker 1: you know, speed of play, anything you can add to it.

1055
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:54,279
Speaker 1: You know, regardless of the preparation we had, we could

1056
00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:56,880
Speaker 1: we could have never prepared for what was about to

1057
00:48:56,920 --> 00:49:00,200
Speaker 1: happen to us. And you know, just being being as

1058
00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:04,320
Speaker 1: naive as we were going into that game, we lost

1059
00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:06,880
Speaker 1: the game five to one. We were down three zero

1060
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:09,720
Speaker 1: at halftime, Eric when all that had a red card

1061
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:12,320
Speaker 1: I think the first couple of minutes of the second half,

1062
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:14,919
Speaker 1: which obviously didn't help us get back in the game

1063
00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:16,800
Speaker 1: because now now we had.

1064
00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:17,439
Speaker 2: To play with ten.

1065
00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:21,160
Speaker 1: Paul Kalajuri actually scored a great goal to kind of

1066
00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:25,239
Speaker 1: get us back in it, you know, but the Checks

1067
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:27,239
Speaker 1: were able to score two more goals and missed the

1068
00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:31,799
Speaker 1: penalty kick that Tony Miola saved late in the game, and.

1069
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:33,560
Speaker 2: Still beat us, beat us five to one.

1070
00:49:33,640 --> 00:49:36,600
Speaker 1: But okay, so I think I couldn't put us in

1071
00:49:36,640 --> 00:49:39,239
Speaker 1: the worst light in terms of Okay, this is our

1072
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:41,560
Speaker 1: welcome back to a World Cup after forty years.

1073
00:49:41,600 --> 00:49:42,520
Speaker 2: This is where we are.

1074
00:49:42,920 --> 00:49:45,560
Speaker 1: And Tom, you and I have discussed many times about

1075
00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:48,080
Speaker 1: how part of my own preparation to get to that

1076
00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:51,280
Speaker 1: World Cup was playing Sunday games in a Sunday league

1077
00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:54,640
Speaker 1: for the Brooklyn Italians, and by the way, playing in

1078
00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:58,520
Speaker 1: the Futsal World Cup, you know, six months before in

1079
00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:01,360
Speaker 1: Holland that had, you know, in the middle of qualifying,

1080
00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:04,040
Speaker 1: so you know, unfortunately we had to deal with all

1081
00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:06,799
Speaker 1: these things. We're going into a world which, you know,

1082
00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:09,399
Speaker 1: some of these guys were already playing in Syria, which

1083
00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:12,800
Speaker 1: was like the NBA really of world football at the time.

1084
00:50:13,280 --> 00:50:16,319
Speaker 1: And so but but I think that the neat part

1085
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:18,680
Speaker 1: of this is that I think although no one ever

1086
00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:22,360
Speaker 1: talks about this game, I think that game is likely

1087
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:26,560
Speaker 1: the turning point in US soccer, right because at that

1088
00:50:26,680 --> 00:50:29,839
Speaker 1: point we realize, Okay, we did something that no one

1089
00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:32,319
Speaker 1: thought we could do. We accomplished something no one thought

1090
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:35,080
Speaker 1: we could accomplish. But now we're in the reality of

1091
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:39,200
Speaker 1: can our country ever compete in world football?

1092
00:50:39,640 --> 00:50:39,839
Speaker 2: Right?

1093
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:43,000
Speaker 1: And after taking a beating the way we did in

1094
00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:46,520
Speaker 1: the first game, it kind of you know, you, I

1095
00:50:46,560 --> 00:50:49,480
Speaker 1: wish you could have seen what trainings were like after

1096
00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:53,279
Speaker 1: that check game, because there were fist fights in practice.

1097
00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:57,000
Speaker 1: There was now everybody what happens to normal teams. This

1098
00:50:57,040 --> 00:50:59,360
Speaker 1: is the growth of normal teams. You go out and

1099
00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:02,360
Speaker 1: get hammerd and now old twenty guys think they should

1100
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:04,360
Speaker 1: be starting. So now you go, you got to go

1101
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:07,520
Speaker 1: into training, and that's the reality of what makes you better.

1102
00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:10,239
Speaker 1: And I think I always think that the guys that

1103
00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:12,840
Speaker 1: survive that are kind of the guys that the guys

1104
00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:16,319
Speaker 1: that kind of pushed us ahead, because we went from there.

1105
00:51:16,320 --> 00:51:19,399
Speaker 1: From there to play against Italy and Rome, and as

1106
00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:21,880
Speaker 1: we're pulling up to the stadium in Rome, all we

1107
00:51:21,920 --> 00:51:24,120
Speaker 1: could see is Italian fans on the side giving us

1108
00:51:24,160 --> 00:51:26,719
Speaker 1: a double sign of two hands saying today is going

1109
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:27,239
Speaker 1: to be ten.

1110
00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:29,520
Speaker 2: Right, That's what it was.

1111
00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:32,400
Speaker 1: That's what it was, because I think the and the

1112
00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:35,360
Speaker 1: newspapers said the same. I think the World Cup record

1113
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:37,640
Speaker 1: for goals with something like nine to one, that El

1114
00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:40,319
Speaker 1: salvad Or lost some sort of game, and the newspapers

1115
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:43,080
Speaker 1: are writing about how our next game was going to

1116
00:51:43,160 --> 00:51:48,120
Speaker 1: be the record breaking game, and yet we pulled together,

1117
00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:51,880
Speaker 1: and that's the first time that I think we created

1118
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:55,680
Speaker 1: the true American American culture for who we were as

1119
00:51:55,680 --> 00:51:58,319
Speaker 1: a nation. Okay, so we're not good enough, but one

1120
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:00,319
Speaker 1: thing we can do is we can fight, and we

1121
00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:03,000
Speaker 1: can fight all together. And I think we pulled together

1122
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:05,520
Speaker 1: in that Italy game, and we ended up losing one

1123
00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:08,440
Speaker 1: zero in a tight game that we actually, by the way,

1124
00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:10,759
Speaker 1: didn't deserve, of course, but we could have tied at

1125
00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:13,440
Speaker 1: the end with a Peter Vermi shot that was saved

1126
00:52:13,440 --> 00:52:16,160
Speaker 1: by Walter Zenger right on the line, went under his legs.

1127
00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:19,279
Speaker 1: So I think that's the first time that we realized,

1128
00:52:19,480 --> 00:52:21,319
Speaker 1: you know what, this is really who we are.

1129
00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:23,720
Speaker 2: We have to improve as players.

1130
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:25,600
Speaker 1: But we can fight like this, and if we can

1131
00:52:25,640 --> 00:52:27,400
Speaker 1: fight like this, we can do anything.

1132
00:52:28,719 --> 00:52:30,920
Speaker 3: Let me just read off some of the names on

1133
00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:34,200
Speaker 3: that Italian team. You already said Walter Zenga, Paolo Maldini,

1134
00:52:34,560 --> 00:52:40,920
Speaker 3: Carlo Ancelotti, Roberto Baggio or Roberto Donadini, Roberto Mancini, and

1135
00:52:40,960 --> 00:52:41,959
Speaker 3: you guys played them well.

1136
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:44,160
Speaker 1: And then you had Jannini, you had you know, I

1137
00:52:44,200 --> 00:52:47,200
Speaker 1: don't know if you mentioned Roberto Baggio Bagio at the time,

1138
00:52:47,520 --> 00:52:51,319
Speaker 1: but he was the highest transfer in the world, you know.

1139
00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:52,440
Speaker 2: Scilachi Toto.

1140
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:55,680
Speaker 1: Sclaggi was the leading scorer in that whole World Cup.

1141
00:52:55,960 --> 00:52:58,279
Speaker 1: Actually the game against US is the only game out

1142
00:52:58,320 --> 00:53:00,200
Speaker 1: of the whole World Cup where he didn't score or

1143
00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:03,520
Speaker 1: so no Italy. Italy was a great team, and by

1144
00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:06,680
Speaker 1: the way, that Czechoslovakia team we lost to ended up

1145
00:53:06,719 --> 00:53:09,279
Speaker 1: losing in the quarterfinals to West Germany, who was the

1146
00:53:09,320 --> 00:53:13,480
Speaker 1: eventual champion. So it was really a turning point. It

1147
00:53:13,520 --> 00:53:15,160
Speaker 1: was a neat place to be and out of the

1148
00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:19,080
Speaker 1: many experiences that I've had, I really and truly see

1149
00:53:19,120 --> 00:53:22,279
Speaker 1: that as a turning point for our national team.

1150
00:53:23,080 --> 00:53:25,560
Speaker 4: I had a really interesting conversation after the last World

1151
00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:28,160
Speaker 4: Cup with Virginio Desk and he talked about just the

1152
00:53:28,239 --> 00:53:32,120
Speaker 4: experience of being there, being around the whole world of

1153
00:53:32,120 --> 00:53:34,600
Speaker 4: football and seeing the level and the quality and also

1154
00:53:34,640 --> 00:53:37,919
Speaker 4: the joy around the game inspired him for this next

1155
00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:39,680
Speaker 4: four years. Like all he thought was like, I need

1156
00:53:39,719 --> 00:53:41,959
Speaker 4: to play well enough to get back to another World Cup.

1157
00:53:42,239 --> 00:53:44,319
Speaker 4: I wonder you talked about it from the macro point

1158
00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:47,120
Speaker 4: of view of changing kind of American soccer and how

1159
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:49,200
Speaker 4: the team came together to say this has to be

1160
00:53:49,239 --> 00:53:53,040
Speaker 4: our identity to compete and grow for you personally, when

1161
00:53:53,080 --> 00:53:55,719
Speaker 4: you're on the field against Czechoslovakia the result goes the

1162
00:53:55,760 --> 00:53:58,560
Speaker 4: way it does. You see the quality of the players

1163
00:53:58,600 --> 00:54:02,279
Speaker 4: around you, how much to personally motivate you for the

1164
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:04,560
Speaker 4: next cycle and the rest of your career to say, Okay, like,

1165
00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:06,960
Speaker 4: I have more I can get to. I have more

1166
00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:08,640
Speaker 4: I have to get to if I want to compete

1167
00:54:08,680 --> 00:54:10,399
Speaker 4: at the highest levels of this game.

1168
00:54:10,719 --> 00:54:13,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's a great question because it was. It

1169
00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:16,440
Speaker 1: was the number one motivator. It was I want to

1170
00:54:16,480 --> 00:54:18,840
Speaker 1: get to that level. I want to play that fast.

1171
00:54:19,120 --> 00:54:21,200
Speaker 1: It's you know, it's great that I have oldest skill

1172
00:54:21,239 --> 00:54:24,280
Speaker 1: in the world, but if that skill is not developed

1173
00:54:24,280 --> 00:54:27,839
Speaker 1: to play at the highest speed possible, it's not useful.

1174
00:54:28,040 --> 00:54:29,840
Speaker 2: And so it motivated me personally.

1175
00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:32,319
Speaker 1: I ended up having a pretty good World Cup because

1176
00:54:32,360 --> 00:54:34,719
Speaker 1: then I got an offer from Spain after it, even

1177
00:54:34,719 --> 00:54:37,840
Speaker 1: though we didn't do well. But I think it didn't

1178
00:54:37,880 --> 00:54:41,919
Speaker 1: only motivate me. It motivated most of the team to think, hey,

1179
00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:44,239
Speaker 1: we can go do something. Just as I'll give you

1180
00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:47,120
Speaker 1: the other side of that, I think some other players

1181
00:54:47,120 --> 00:54:49,440
Speaker 1: on the team potentially, and by the way, they were

1182
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:51,560
Speaker 1: all great guys. But I think some of the guys thought,

1183
00:54:51,840 --> 00:54:54,279
Speaker 1: you know, this is probably not for me, you know,

1184
00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:55,960
Speaker 1: And I think guys ended.

1185
00:54:55,840 --> 00:54:56,960
Speaker 2: Up going in separate ways.

1186
00:54:57,000 --> 00:54:59,680
Speaker 1: But for me personally, to answer your question, it was

1187
00:54:59,760 --> 00:55:03,160
Speaker 1: the number one motivator, knowing that, hey, I have to

1188
00:55:03,200 --> 00:55:05,080
Speaker 1: get to the next level if I'm ever going to

1189
00:55:05,120 --> 00:55:06,520
Speaker 1: make a difference in this game.

1190
00:55:07,600 --> 00:55:12,040
Speaker 3: That's incredible. These stories never ever get old, no matter

1191
00:55:12,040 --> 00:55:13,799
Speaker 3: how much TAB has to downplay it. They are very

1192
00:55:13,800 --> 00:55:16,040
Speaker 3: funny and very good every time we talk about it.

1193
00:55:16,120 --> 00:55:18,040
Speaker 3: But I think that's it for our episode today. Tap.

1194
00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:20,880
Speaker 3: Thank you as always, Paul, Thank you for joining again

1195
00:55:21,719 --> 00:55:25,000
Speaker 3: the messy effect of the global legend. Thank you Soccer.

1196
00:55:27,120 --> 00:55:30,239
Speaker 3: Thank you for pre order wherever books are sold. I've

1197
00:55:30,280 --> 00:55:32,400
Speaker 3: said a nice enough nice things to Paul. Paul you

1198
00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:34,680
Speaker 3: kild is also on the Athletic, but read me on

1199
00:55:34,719 --> 00:55:38,160
Speaker 3: the Athletic. Don't read Paul because I'm feeling uncomfortable for

1200
00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:40,360
Speaker 3: all the nice things I said, Paul, thanks for being here.

1201
00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:42,600
Speaker 4: No, thanks for having me, and yes, definitely read Tom.

1202
00:55:42,680 --> 00:55:43,840
Speaker 4: Don't don't read my stuff.

1203
00:55:44,719 --> 00:55:46,279
Speaker 3: Well, I write it three hundred words at a time.

1204
00:55:46,320 --> 00:55:49,480
Speaker 3: You write seven hundred pages at a time, So depends

1205
00:55:49,480 --> 00:55:51,120
Speaker 3: on what you wants two different people.

1206
00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:54,600
Speaker 4: Here for that reason alone, For that reason alone.

1207
00:55:54,680 --> 00:55:57,480
Speaker 3: Thank you everybody for listening to Inside American Soccer again.

1208
00:55:57,520 --> 00:56:00,719
Speaker 3: Please rate, review and subscribe. Please continue to leave your

1209
00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:04,040
Speaker 3: questions the comments, and all of our platforms. We're on Twitter, Instagram, TikTok,

1210
00:56:04,040 --> 00:56:06,000
Speaker 3: and of course YouTube, where you can watch this show

1211
00:56:07,000 --> 00:56:09,359
Speaker 3: in its full, in its entirety. In video, you get

1212
00:56:09,400 --> 00:56:11,719
Speaker 3: to see Tab holding up the towel and making sure

1213
00:56:11,719 --> 00:56:13,360
Speaker 3: that nobody in his house is trying to steal it.

1214
00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:15,880
Speaker 3: Thank you everybody for joining. We'll see you all everybody

1215
00:56:15,880 --> 00:56:16,040
Speaker 3: soon