WEBVTT - Trump Creates New Voter Fraud Commission (Audio)

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<v Speaker 1>President Donald Trump signs an executive order yesterday establishing the

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<v Speaker 1>Presidential Commission on Election Integrity to examine alleged improper voting

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<v Speaker 1>and voter suppression in federal elections. Trump has claimed without

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<v Speaker 1>proof that his opponent won the popular vote last year

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<v Speaker 1>because of voter fraud, saying that millions of people who

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<v Speaker 1>weren't eligible to vote, particularly undocumented immigrants, cast ballots. We're

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<v Speaker 1>going to protect the integrity of the ballot box, and

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<v Speaker 1>we are going to defend the votes of the American

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<v Speaker 1>citizens so important. Many top democratic and civil rights leaders

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<v Speaker 1>have charged at the effort to clap down on alleged

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<v Speaker 1>voter fraud is intended to suppress voter turnout among minorities,

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<v Speaker 1>the poor, and the elderly by putting up new barriers

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<v Speaker 1>to voting. Trump has named Vice President Mike Pence as

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<v Speaker 1>chairman of the Commission, and Chris Koback, the Kansas Secretary

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<v Speaker 1>of State known for advocating for the strictest voter i

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<v Speaker 1>D laws in the country as vice chairman. Joining us

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<v Speaker 1>our election law experts, Nate Personally, Professor It's Stanford Law School,

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<v Speaker 1>and Richard Refault, Professor at Columbia Law School, Nate, you

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<v Speaker 1>were the research director on the Presidential Commission on Election

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<v Speaker 1>Administration after the election. Tell us about any real evidence

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<v Speaker 1>of widespread voter fraud. Well, there isn't widespread evidence of

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<v Speaker 1>voter fraud. There are any number of irregularities in our

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<v Speaker 1>election system, um coming from you know, machines that don't work,

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<v Speaker 1>voters who are wrongly put on the registered registration rolls,

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<v Speaker 1>dead people on the rolls, people who move. So there

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<v Speaker 1>are all kinds of problems with our election administration system,

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<v Speaker 1>but there is no widespread evidence of fraud. Rich. This

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<v Speaker 1>commission is being built by the White House at least

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<v Speaker 1>as a bipartisan commission. There are at least two Democrats

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<v Speaker 1>on it. What do you think is that? Is this

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<v Speaker 1>going to be an even handed look at America's election laws? Well,

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<v Speaker 1>it's not really being set off that way, uh As

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<v Speaker 1>Natean knows his experience, Nate was the research director of

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<v Speaker 1>the last major commission that looked into the election administration

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<v Speaker 1>system in the US. Typically, these commissions have two chairs,

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<v Speaker 1>and one of a prominent senior Democrat and one of

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<v Speaker 1>a prominent senior Republican. So there was the Carter Baker

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<v Speaker 1>or Baker Carter, Jimmy Carter and James Baker's Republican Secretary

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<v Speaker 1>State the one that Nate was on, the Power Ginsburg.

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<v Speaker 1>They were the top election lawyers of their two different parties.

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<v Speaker 1>This is one of the top two figures of both Republicans.

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<v Speaker 1>The Vice President, Mike Pences the chair, and I believe

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<v Speaker 1>Chris Koback supposed to be the vice chair, and he

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<v Speaker 1>not only is the partisan, but he has taken a

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<v Speaker 1>very um strident efficacy position on a lot of election issues.

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<v Speaker 1>So there may be some Democrats on the commission. I

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<v Speaker 1>think the full membership has not been announced, but it

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<v Speaker 1>is certainly not being set up in the the bipartisan

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<v Speaker 1>way that passed. The commissions that have looked into election

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<v Speaker 1>leader issues have been Nate. We know that Senate Majority

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<v Speaker 1>Leader Mitch Connell set in February that no federal money

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<v Speaker 1>should be spent investigating voter fraud. Doesn't the commission need

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<v Speaker 1>professional staff with experience dealing with election administration and resources

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<v Speaker 1>to examine any credible evidence? I mean, don't you need

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<v Speaker 1>to put money into this commission? They will put money

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<v Speaker 1>into the commission. I mean, I've looked at the Executive

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<v Speaker 1>Order and it you know, suggests that they'll have all

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<v Speaker 1>the support from the General Services Administration, and Chris Koback

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<v Speaker 1>went on the air last night and said that their

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<v Speaker 1>plan is to match up the voter lists with other

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<v Speaker 1>lists that the federal government has about green card holders

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<v Speaker 1>and other citizenship databases in order to see how many

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<v Speaker 1>non citizens and ineligible voters are on the roles that

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<v Speaker 1>may have voted in the last election. And so this

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<v Speaker 1>will actually be a relatively expensive effort as these things go.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, we the Presidential Commission that I served under

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<v Speaker 1>UM actually was was very frugal I think, I mean

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<v Speaker 1>there was less than half a million dollars we ended

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<v Speaker 1>up spending, and that was mainly just to have hearings

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<v Speaker 1>around the country. Uh So this commission, yeah, it's a

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<v Speaker 1>it's a real research effort if they undertake a real

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<v Speaker 1>research effort. One thing I would also note that there's

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<v Speaker 1>no UM concluding date for the commission, So this commission

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<v Speaker 1>could be there for a while, perhaps looking into what

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<v Speaker 1>happens in the two thousand eighteen election as well. Rich

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<v Speaker 1>And but just about thirty seconds right now, But what's

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<v Speaker 1>the scope of this commission? Is it going to look

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<v Speaker 1>into allegations of votes suppression as well as allegations of

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<v Speaker 1>voter fraud. It'should be not in the mandate of the charge.

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<v Speaker 1>The mandate is all about election fraud and voter integrity,

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<v Speaker 1>improper voter registration and improper voting. I think if you

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<v Speaker 1>wanted to, you could squeeze it in because the mission

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<v Speaker 1>talks about looking at rules and practices that enhance the

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<v Speaker 1>people American people's confidence in the integrity of the electoral

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<v Speaker 1>system and that undermine it. And you could argue that

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<v Speaker 1>vote suppression devices undermine the integrity. So if somebody really

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<v Speaker 1>wanted to push for looking at those voter suppression issues,

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<v Speaker 1>they they could be stated within. But the overall tenor

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<v Speaker 1>of the mission on the key terms and it all

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<v Speaker 1>seems to be focused on concerns about voting registration and

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<v Speaker 1>voting by people who should not be voting, as opposed

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<v Speaker 1>to mechanisms that make it harder for people who are

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<v Speaker 1>entitled to vote to actually vote. Coming up on Bloomberg law,

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<v Speaker 1>what about the timing of this commission? And the A

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<v Speaker 1>c l U has filed a Freedom of Information Act

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<v Speaker 1>request seeking information that the Trump administration is using as

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<v Speaker 1>the basis for its voter fraud claims go. We're talking

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<v Speaker 1>with two experts in election law, Nate Personally, professor at

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<v Speaker 1>Stanford Law School, and Richard Fall, professor at Columbia Law School,

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<v Speaker 1>about President Donald Trump's Presidential Commission on Election Integrity. Nate,

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<v Speaker 1>as I said, there were many top Democrats who came

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<v Speaker 1>out with statements and civil rights leaders charging that this

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<v Speaker 1>is an effort to uh, really to suppress voter turnout

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<v Speaker 1>among minorities, the poor, and the elder by putting up

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<v Speaker 1>new barriers to voting, such as voter I D S.

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<v Speaker 1>Would a federal commission be able to do that? The

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<v Speaker 1>commission itself won't be able to pass any laws, but

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<v Speaker 1>it will um make recommendations, perhaps of federal legislation. The

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<v Speaker 1>commission I served under, we made recommendations principally to the states,

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<v Speaker 1>because that's where most election law is created, and so

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<v Speaker 1>that was what we viewed as our goal and really

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<v Speaker 1>tried to focus on the best practices from the states

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<v Speaker 1>so that we could improve election administration and performance. But

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<v Speaker 1>let me just we have to pull away the veneer

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit with this executive order in this commission,

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<v Speaker 1>which is that we have to remember that this is

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<v Speaker 1>reverse engineered in order to justify a tweet that happened

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<v Speaker 1>in the wake of President Trump's loss of the popular vote.

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<v Speaker 1>And so these people are appointed and uh, their mission

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<v Speaker 1>is to justify the idea that three to five million

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<v Speaker 1>illegal votes were cast in the last electction. And so

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<v Speaker 1>you can't rip this commission out of that context, especially

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<v Speaker 1>when the Vice president is leading it and he has

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<v Speaker 1>said that he believes that to be true already. Is

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<v Speaker 1>the timing of this suspicious. Many people are saying that

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<v Speaker 1>it's timed to to take attention away from the Comey

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<v Speaker 1>firing and the FBI. I don't think it has. In

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<v Speaker 1>some ways, I could see two stories in that regard.

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<v Speaker 1>One is that it's attempt to distract from the Comey investigation.

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<v Speaker 1>The other is the Comey investigation is distracting from this,

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<v Speaker 1>and so you sort of slip it in at the

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<v Speaker 1>same time that everyone's preoccupied with that. I don't think, um,

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<v Speaker 1>it's distracting from everything happening with Comey. At least if

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<v Speaker 1>you look at the front pages today, this is really

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<v Speaker 1>below the fold um and you know this is something

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<v Speaker 1>that's going to be going on and on over the

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<v Speaker 1>next few years as they appoint new members and investigate

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<v Speaker 1>the claims of voter front Well, speaking of appointing new

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<v Speaker 1>members and actually putting a commission together, Rich, we have

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<v Speaker 1>a commission here that doesn't really have any you know,

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<v Speaker 1>a full complement of members or a staff or anything else,

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<v Speaker 1>And so it's not clear who's going to end up

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<v Speaker 1>on this. Is there any positive what do you think

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<v Speaker 1>the possibilities are that, you know, Democrats and independent election

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<v Speaker 1>experts would be willing to serve on this commission, giving

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<v Speaker 1>the suspicion, given the suspicions a lot of them have

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<v Speaker 1>about it, it's hard to say. I mean, part of

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<v Speaker 1>the fact, the very fact that it was rushed out

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<v Speaker 1>like this, So those sort of give credence to the

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<v Speaker 1>idea that maybe there was an attempt to distract from

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<v Speaker 1>the comby affair. The commission is not ready, and the

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<v Speaker 1>White House at the President and talking about doing something

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<v Speaker 1>like this for months. Why now when it's not even

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<v Speaker 1>fully done In terms of people joining up, It's hard

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<v Speaker 1>to say. I mean, on the one hand, it's sort

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<v Speaker 1>of it's sort of um resonates to all of the

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<v Speaker 1>statements people are making since November about how valuable would

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<v Speaker 1>be for high quality people to join the Trump administration

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<v Speaker 1>and to contribute their expertise and their knowledge and their

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<v Speaker 1>you know, their commitment to standards. We saw what happened

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<v Speaker 1>with Mr Rosenstein trying to do that. Um, I don't know.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, I think they're the sense that this is

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<v Speaker 1>clearly a facade, that this is a veiled device designed

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<v Speaker 1>to both Nates suggests to give some kind of support

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<v Speaker 1>for the idea that there were millions of illegal votescast,

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<v Speaker 1>and then maybe going beyond that, to give to provide

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<v Speaker 1>a program to make a tougher to add new restrictions

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<v Speaker 1>on voting going forward. I mean, the Commission itself doesn't

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<v Speaker 1>have the power to do it, but it has the

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<v Speaker 1>bully put have the bully pulpit. Um, it's you know,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm sure they would want to, as some people who

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<v Speaker 1>are not die hard Republicans, to make it look more legitimate,

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<v Speaker 1>but it's not clear that you ever will be legitimate. Nate,

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<v Speaker 1>what's your reaction to the a c L you filing

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<v Speaker 1>a Freedom of Information Act request seeking information that the

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<v Speaker 1>Trump administration is using as the basis for its voter

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<v Speaker 1>fraud claims. Well, I see that mainly as a strategic

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<v Speaker 1>device in order to highlight the fact that they don't

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<v Speaker 1>have the evidence that there's three to five million illegal

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<v Speaker 1>votes cast in the election. Realized that if that had

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<v Speaker 1>been the level of illegal voting in the last election,

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<v Speaker 1>the voter turnout among the undocumented population would have rivaled

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<v Speaker 1>that of citizens. And so it's not as if, um,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, you know, if you had hordes of illegal

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<v Speaker 1>voters of flooding the polling place, you would have had

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<v Speaker 1>a much higher voter turnout than we had in this election,

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<v Speaker 1>and you would have been able to see it left

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<v Speaker 1>and right. And so I see this the a c

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<v Speaker 1>l US attempt here as well as future attempts that

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<v Speaker 1>people are going to lodge under the Federal Advisory Committee Act,

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<v Speaker 1>just a way to try to keep this commission in

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<v Speaker 1>check into continue and needle ith in order to justify

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<v Speaker 1>its mission. Rich given those kinds of efforts, in the

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<v Speaker 1>fact that we don't have a commission put together yet, Um,

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<v Speaker 1>if you had to predict how long the commission's work

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<v Speaker 1>is going to take, how long would it be? It

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<v Speaker 1>really is unpredictable. I mean, they it's it's they don't

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<v Speaker 1>have a full commission, they don't have a staff. The

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<v Speaker 1>Vice President is sharing it, and he has other things

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<v Speaker 1>to do. They do have a very activist and very

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<v Speaker 1>determined of ICE chair, Chris Kodak of Kansas Secretary of State,

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<v Speaker 1>and he may want to push it pretty hard. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm it's hard to say. I mean, I think any

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<v Speaker 1>any number I give would be totally made up. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, bloom Ye, it will be. I mean, as

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<v Speaker 1>Nate points out, they might actually even want to wait

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<v Speaker 1>to pass the twenty eighteen election. They might want to

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<v Speaker 1>come out sometime next year. All the idea that maybe

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<v Speaker 1>to press Congress to pass some restrictive measures that would

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<v Speaker 1>make it hard for people to vote in federal elections.

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<v Speaker 1>It's just impossible to tell thank you both for being

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<v Speaker 1>for being on Bloomberg Law. That's we should Refall professor

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<v Speaker 1>at Columbia Law School and Nate personally, professor at Stanford

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<v Speaker 1>Law School, both election law experts. Coming up on Bloomberg Law.

0:11:45.760 --> 0:11:48.839
<v Speaker 1>We're going to be talking about the Fire Music Festival.

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<v Speaker 1>It was on an exclusive island in the Bahamas. It

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<v Speaker 1>was billed as a luxury experience from start to finish,

0:11:55.760 --> 0:11:58.360
<v Speaker 1>but it finished before it started, and there's a one

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<v Speaker 1>hundred million dollar lass filed saying it was more like

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<v Speaker 1>the Hunger Games. We're going to speak to the plaintiff's

0:12:04.760 --> 0:12:07.719
<v Speaker 1>attorney in that, and later in the show we're going

0:12:07.760 --> 0:12:12.160
<v Speaker 1>to be talking about the EU Commissioner of Anti Trust

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<v Speaker 1>and how she has built a reputation, a sort of

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<v Speaker 1>a star's reputation in Europe. That's coming up on Bloomberg Law.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm June Grosso with Michael Best and Greg Store. You've

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<v Speaker 1>been listening to Bloomberg Law. This is Bloomberg