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Speaker 1: Ridiculous crime. It's a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Elizabeth Dudd. Got a question for you, my friend. Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 2: you know the answer to this. I'm hoping I think

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Speaker 2: you do. Do you know what's ridiculous?

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Speaker 3: No? Oh, I'm just yanking your chain. Valentine's Day straight

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Speaker 3: up ridiculous.

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Speaker 2: This can be a mash up.

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Speaker 3: Well, let's talk about Valentine's Day quickly? Okay, place un

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Speaker 3: it's over, you know, but I just think it's it's

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Speaker 3: like garbage.

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Speaker 2: Why do you not like Valentine's Day?

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Speaker 3: Point?

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Speaker 2: Is there a holiday you do like? Because we've gone

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Speaker 2: for a few of them, and you're like, that's garbage,

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Speaker 2: always to tell every day?

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Speaker 3: I like Thanksgiving? I like Halloween?

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Speaker 2: So you like the autumnal?

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Speaker 3: I like the fourth of July?

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Speaker 2: Okay, okay, so summer and autumn holidays?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Do you like Secretaries?

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Speaker 3: Doesn't something to do with the time of year. I

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Speaker 3: just think Valentine's Day is like commercial garbage.

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Speaker 2: Is there a winter time holiday you do?

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Speaker 3: Like Winter Solstice?

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Speaker 2: Okay, not technically a holiday.

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Speaker 3: But for my people, the spookies, good one. So what

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Speaker 3: do you got for Valentine's Day? Did you do anything

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Speaker 3: for Valentine's Day.

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Speaker 2: For Valentine's Day, I got myself a bunch of boxes

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Speaker 2: of chocolate the day after Valentine's Day. So now I

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Speaker 2: got like eat them real quick before they go bad.

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Speaker 3: That's the time to do it.

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Speaker 2: For Halloween and Valentine's Day right after Easter doesn't have

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Speaker 2: his mini that I like, like, I'm not like a

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Speaker 2: Peeps person. There's a lot of chocolate, so I just

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Speaker 2: buy the chocolate. But you know, so there you go

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Speaker 2: my day late dollars short chocolate supply.

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Speaker 3: Well, see, I have this huge backlog of potential. What's

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Speaker 3: ridiculous is that are sent to us and that I collate.

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Speaker 3: And there was one that I've been really wanted to

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Speaker 3: use and I couldn't find it today. It had something

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Speaker 3: to do with animals that stick grass up their butts.

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Speaker 2: What is animal thing about?

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Speaker 3: The boo boos? And I was like, this is the

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Speaker 3: greatest thing I've ever seen, and now I can't find it.

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Speaker 3: And I just spent like an hour and a half.

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Speaker 3: So if you sent that, send it however you originally

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Speaker 3: sent it, and it'll somehow make its way to me. Anyway.

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Speaker 3: They were like, look, there was a sort of Valentine's theme.

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Speaker 3: But I'm like too late, buddies. But it's more that

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Speaker 3: it arrived in time, but I got too late to

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Speaker 3: I'm buddies in that.

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Speaker 2: Yes, you're the buddy.

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Speaker 3: So the first one, McDonald's partner partnered with Paramount Caviar. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: so they had mcnuggetcaviar dot com. They started it on

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Speaker 3: February tenth, where you could it's free. They keep talking

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Speaker 3: about you know what it's like only we do it's free.

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Speaker 2: Don't you eat free caviar?

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Speaker 3: No? Did you eat caviar?

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Speaker 2: Maybe like I've done some Russian to tempted.

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Speaker 3: Me with some ca Yeah. So they want you to

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Speaker 3: go and buy chicken nuggets, chicky nuggies, put crembfresh and

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Speaker 3: then caviar on it and then you know, serve it

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Speaker 3: to Ronald McDonald than a sentual situation.

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Speaker 2: Okay, what did they call that? The Evil Empire?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's if you entered you could get a

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Speaker 3: one ounce ten of McNugget caviar, which is premium product,

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Speaker 3: I guess they said, and then a twenty five dollars

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Speaker 3: arch card, so you could buy a bunch of McNuggets cremfresh,

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Speaker 3: a mother of pearl caviar spoon. To top it all off, how.

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Speaker 2: Did McDonald's get a deal on caviar. I don't know,

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Speaker 2: I probably don't want it.

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Speaker 3: Maybe no one ordered it, so go to Mcnuggetcaviar dot

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Speaker 3: com supplies are limited act fast. But that's like if

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Speaker 3: you're fancy, But what if you're down home, down home,

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Speaker 3: like real country.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, yeah, I'm listening.

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Speaker 3: We've talked. I told you about Natty Light. Natural Light

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Speaker 3: had the yard. Yeah, like the treadmill, lawnmower, got a

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Speaker 3: lawnmower thing Like I think it's a lawnmower fetish. Okay,

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Speaker 3: because they've introduced lingerie and it's lingerie for your riding mower.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I'm avoiding all the bad jokes.

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Speaker 3: And I know they're describing it as quote a frisky

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Speaker 3: set of intimate apparel for lawnmowers. It's a lacy, silky

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Speaker 3: protective cover to keep lawng cair equipment looking extra sexy

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Speaker 3: and ensure your equipment maintains its cutting edge. So it

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Speaker 3: looks kind of like a large oval of satin with

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Speaker 3: a you know, long trim of lace on.

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Speaker 2: An't they doing there at Natty Ice?

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Speaker 3: Bad things they should be on a watch list and

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Speaker 3: so but here there's all have them link somehow. There's

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Speaker 3: a video, Oh God, in a garage where a guy

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Speaker 3: who's wearing a wedding ring.

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Speaker 2: It looks like a haunted Victorian mansion.

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Speaker 3: He rubs it sensually and then he starts to delicately

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Speaker 3: lift the lingerie from the mower.

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Speaker 2: What the hell?

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Speaker 3: And the caption is Bauchika Momo no no, introducing natural

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Speaker 3: light lawn Gerie, a sultry Valentine's Day gift for your

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Speaker 3: most cherished lawn equipment. But the real prize is what's

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Speaker 3: underneath new riding mower comment hashtag natty lawn geri, hashtag

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Speaker 3: sweepsteaks and you could win.

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Speaker 2: Both a John Deere riding.

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Speaker 3: It's not a John Dere, honey, it's red.

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Speaker 2: It's red. I didn't I don't know what makes it.

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Speaker 3: It's a great value Walmart.

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Speaker 2: Bro I was hoping it was are and then it's so.

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Speaker 3: But I want the lingerie and I'm just gonna I'm

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Speaker 3: gonna cut a hole in the very center of it

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Speaker 3: and wear it like a poncho.

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Speaker 2: I don't even know what to make of that, nor do.

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Speaker 3: I But guess what. So I cleared a little bit

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Speaker 3: of my backlog, but I still got the thing about

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Speaker 3: the animals shoving grass up their butts.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, no, I can.

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Speaker 3: Almost see it, and I just missed it.

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Speaker 2: So ridiculous it is. Okay, you know what else is ridiculous?

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Speaker 3: Ridiculous?

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Speaker 2: Robert Hanson?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, oh wait a second main.

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Speaker 2: Base sound familiar. The FBI once called him quote the

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Speaker 2: most damaging spy and bureau history.

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Speaker 3: Oh vague memories of this year?

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Speaker 2: Why was this cat so successful as a spy? Well,

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Speaker 2: for one, the FBI just flat out refused to believe

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Speaker 2: he was one of theirs. The facts are right there

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Speaker 2: before them. But the FBI was like, no, it's not

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Speaker 2: us CIA. We're pretty sure of it. Okay, So yeah,

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Speaker 2: buckle up. This one is all kinds of while you

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Speaker 2: this is ridiculous crime, A podcast about absurd and outrageous capers.

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Speaker 2: Heis and cons it's always ninety nine percent murder free

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Speaker 2: and one hundred percent what Elizabeth, one hundred percent ridiculous?

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Speaker 3: Oh never remember how that's supposed to go.

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Speaker 2: I know it's okay, keep up, though, you know, Okay,

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Speaker 2: here where to begin today? What start at the beginning? Okay,

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Speaker 2: this one's wild. For twenty one years, this man conned

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Speaker 2: for presidents, three FBI directors, his wife, his kids, his friends,

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Speaker 2: his neighbors, his coworkers, even his mistress.

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Speaker 3: Oh oh.

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Speaker 2: The only person he told the truth to was his priest. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So imagine, if you will, a man who is the

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Speaker 2: son of a cop, a man who went to work

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Speaker 2: for the police and then became a spy for the FBI.

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Speaker 2: And this same man a suburban dad, a man who

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Speaker 2: was a super devout Catholic, A man who decides, you

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Speaker 2: know what, maybe I should try betraying everything I claim

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Speaker 2: to love and slay to protect. That's our guy today,

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Speaker 2: a walking, talking contradiction and epic betrayer of everything he

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Speaker 2: loved and considered. Holy son, So who am I talking about?

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Speaker 2: As I told jep to Robert Hanson, that's two s's okay. Now,

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Speaker 2: Old Bobby was a bad, bad boy. He was born

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Speaker 2: in nineteen forty four April eighteenth, to be exact.

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Speaker 3: If you're keeping track of dad, hold on, let you

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Speaker 3: write the stone the.

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Speaker 2: Four April eighteenth. He was the only son of Howard

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Speaker 2: and Vivian Hanson. His father, Like I said, Chicago cop

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Speaker 2: Apparently his father did intelligence work for the Chicago PD.

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Speaker 2: Whatever that means, I guess you'd probably don't know, doing

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Speaker 2: deep cover amongst labor leaders, or maybe he infiltrated Communist

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Speaker 2: meetings during the Red Scare. Probably anyway, his son grows

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Speaker 2: up wanting to be a spy. He's kind of a

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Speaker 2: nerdy kid, and you know, I root for that generally.

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Speaker 3: But in this case, growing up at that time, in

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Speaker 3: like the fifties, yeah, you'd want.

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Speaker 2: To be root for nerdy kids, just nerd.

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Speaker 3: I mean I was a total power nerd.

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Speaker 2: I still am you still really like kidding? So Robert

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Speaker 2: Hanson is almost a power nerd, not quite your level,

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Speaker 2: not your caliber. He absolutely loved James Bond, and he

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Speaker 2: wanted to be just like him, right, So I'm like, okay,

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Speaker 2: I feel you. I too wanted to be a spy

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Speaker 2: when I was a boy that or a condo man. Anyway,

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Speaker 2: he started a collection of secret spycraft devices and I'm

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Speaker 2: not talking like exploding pens, but whatever else you could

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Speaker 2: buy from the back of a comic book that had

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Speaker 2: like spy coding, Like I need that. So I'm like,

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Speaker 2: you know, imagining like X ray specs. Yeah, Yeah, who's creator.

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Speaker 2: We've already done a story on Harold von Brownhoot, the

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Speaker 2: same guy who invented sea monkeys and was also a

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Speaker 2: major Neo Nazi benefactor despite being Jewish. Odd guy, But

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Speaker 2: I digress. So as a kid, young Robert Hanson wanted

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Speaker 2: to be the super spy guy so badly. He also

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Speaker 2: managed to get his hands on a shortwave radio, a

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Speaker 2: like a camera, you know, perfect things for this young

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Speaker 2: spy in training. He also got a hold of a

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Speaker 2: Walter PPK pistol, which was the same model James Bond carried, right,

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Speaker 2: But like.

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Speaker 3: He's now, he's a kid with this short radio and

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Speaker 3: a camera and a gun.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, his father's a copy, so you assume he got

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Speaker 2: like firearms training. Anyway, young Bobby, he gets his self

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Speaker 2: a Swiss bank account as well.

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Speaker 3: How old is he's doing.

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Speaker 2: I think he's like twelve by that point. I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I have no idea, but I do know that he's

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Speaker 2: definitely committed to the bit. You've got a Swiss bank

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Speaker 2: account before you go to college.

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Speaker 3: So for his spy at any age.

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Speaker 2: Honestly, he watched all the James Bond movies, like when

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Speaker 2: they came out in theaters. He also watched any other

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Speaker 2: spy films to could get his hands on or like

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Speaker 2: you know, see in a movie theater because he's like

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Speaker 2: they had VCRs at the time. I'm a guess that

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Speaker 2: basically is watching like Dean Martin's Matt Hell movies, right, So,

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Speaker 2: which are by the way, very and he.

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Speaker 3: Goes to the kitchen in the middle of the night

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Speaker 3: to try and like sneak a piece of pie, and

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Speaker 3: he goes in his pajamas.

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Speaker 2: Totally. He is definitely that boy mid century super spy guy.

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Speaker 2: So what does he do with all his childhood spy training, right, Well,

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Speaker 2: one day his dream become true and he'll become a

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Speaker 2: real life spy. Well, naturally, he decides to graduate to

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Speaker 2: being the real thing. He tries. He plans to become

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Speaker 2: a spy hunter for the FBI. That's okay, right, So

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Speaker 2: he goes off to college. He majors in chemistry. He

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Speaker 2: reportedly was a student of average ability, you know, whatever

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Speaker 2: that's worth. He did see his degree through though, He

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Speaker 2: received a bachelor's degree in chemistry in nineteen sixty six.

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Speaker 2: So like basically the age of twenty two. After he

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Speaker 2: graduates from college, he applies to join the National Security

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Speaker 2: Agency aka the NSA. He applies to join the cryptography team,

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Speaker 2: and he is roundedly rejected. So what's his boy to

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Speaker 2: do now that his spy dreams have crashed on the rocks. Well,

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Speaker 2: he doesn't let his this little first side step slow

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Speaker 2: him down. He's like, my role is rolling, So young

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Speaker 2: Bobby knows he's born to be a spy. So after

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Speaker 2: the NSA rejects him, he applies to become a dentist.

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Speaker 2: He's like, I'm gonna need to pay some.

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Speaker 3: Put the radio stuff from people.

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Speaker 2: I hadn't thought about that. Well, this time he gets

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Speaker 2: into dentistry school, Jacob, So he goes to dentistry school.

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Speaker 3: History school is just a bunch of NSA dropouts.

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Speaker 2: Well, he goes to Northwestern University in Chicago, which I

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Speaker 2: imagine is an illustrious dentistry school program. I don't know.

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Speaker 2: So he trains as a dentist, and then while he's

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Speaker 2: doing that, he meets the love of his life, a

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Speaker 2: young woman named Bonnie walk wau Ck. My apologies if

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Speaker 2: I'm not pronouncing that. Yeah, So he romance his old

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Speaker 2: Bonnie and to show her how serious he is, he

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Speaker 2: even converts from his Lutheran faith he was raised in

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Speaker 2: to become a Roman Catholic just like her.

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Speaker 3: Welcome.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So this convinces her he's serious about a life together.

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Speaker 2: The two eventually get married. However, he finds that his

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Speaker 2: modified dream of becoming a dentist is really paling in

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Speaker 2: comparison to his original plan to become a spy or

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Speaker 2: spy hunter. So he transfers from dentistry school to the

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Speaker 2: master's program in business school. So he's going to get

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Speaker 2: his MBA. He earns his master's in business administration, and

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Speaker 2: he does try to then parlay his MBA into becoming

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Speaker 2: a spy. Can he manage that? Can he swing that? Elizabeth?

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Speaker 2: It's a great question which to.

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Speaker 3: Be an actual spy? Yeah, I mean my understanding is like,

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Speaker 3: if you want to attract CIA attention to get recruited,

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Speaker 3: you study like language. Yeah, I mean.

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Speaker 2: Generally speaking language schools is the best place from what

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Speaker 2: I understand.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, figure out what are the hot button languages coming up?

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Speaker 3: You know, Chinese, Arabic.

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Speaker 2: Just a bunch of them, Pashtune, I mean, doesn't really

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Speaker 2: they need speakers. You know, it helps if you look

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Speaker 2: like the population, because then you can actually insert you

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Speaker 2: into the the country.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, that's understanding. Yeah, and my understanding. To be

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Speaker 3: an FBI agent, it's best to go to laws.

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Speaker 2: Be a lawyer. Almost all FBI agents these days are lawyers.

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Speaker 2: This wasn't necessarily the case back then. So instead of

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Speaker 2: becoming a spy with his NBA, he decides I need

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Speaker 2: to get a job. He becomes a certified public accountant,

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Speaker 2: very far from being a spot Yeah. So basically now

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Speaker 2: he's on the life path of one of my heroes,

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Speaker 2: Bob Newhart. Because just like Bob Newhart, Bob Hansen is

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Speaker 2: an accountant in Chicago who dreams of chasing a wholly

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Speaker 2: different career. Except like Bob Newhart, he doesn't want to

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Speaker 2: become a nightclub comic obviously. He wants to become something else,

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Speaker 2: something in law enforcement or being a spy. And he's like,

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Speaker 2: you know what he transfers as an accountant. It becomes

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Speaker 2: a Chicago cop.

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Speaker 3: Wow, this is the securitest.

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Speaker 2: Roots, right, just like dear old Dad. He goes to

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Speaker 2: work though in the financial crimes division. He puts his

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Speaker 2: education to use. He starts doing forensic accounting for the

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Speaker 2: Chicago PD. That's good stuff this last four whole years.

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Speaker 2: But those nagging dreams, those childhood aspirations, are becoming a

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Speaker 2: real life spy. They just won't leave him be. So

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Speaker 2: after four years as an accountant for the Chicago pd

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Speaker 2: he applies to join the Federal Bureau of Investigations, currently

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Speaker 2: lower bar than the NSSA, because this time he gets hired.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah. In January seventy six, he joins the FBI

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Speaker 2: as a special agent. His primary focus is counter intelligence.

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Speaker 2: So when he starts work at the FBI, he swears

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Speaker 2: to this oath. I won't read you the whole thing,

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Speaker 2: but the key points are that he will quote support

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Speaker 2: and defend the Constitution United States against all enemies, foreign

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Speaker 2: and domestic. So help him God.

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Speaker 3: That is the key of all. You know, a lot

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Speaker 3: of a lot of people take that oath.

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Speaker 2: Bunch, Milt forsake it, Mike, Bob Hanson. So this oath

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Speaker 2: is important because it'll become the measure of how much

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Speaker 2: he betrays his nation, our constitution, and even his God. Also,

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Speaker 2: it's notable it takes him less time to decide to

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Speaker 2: become a trader than it took him to decide to

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Speaker 2: quit the Chicago p D. Because within three years of

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Speaker 2: joining the FBI, Bob Hansen decides to betray his oath

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Speaker 2: and starts spying against the United States.

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Speaker 3: I would never you and I should join the FBI

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Speaker 3: because I hear they hire podcasters. Yeah, I would not

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Speaker 3: betray the USA.

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't betray an oath. If I take an oath, betray.

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Speaker 3: Any like a solemn oath like that, forget it.

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Speaker 2: It's your solemn word, that is That's it. I believe that. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: a person's you know, word is their bond, as it

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Speaker 2: said correctly. So what happens in this three years time

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Speaker 2: that he decides to betray all of that he has

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Speaker 2: sworn to great question Elizabeth through a game.

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Speaker 3: I guess sometimes I get up and I'm like today's day.

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Speaker 3: I am so curious and so fast, and Zaren's just

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Speaker 3: gonna piss himself when.

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Speaker 2: He hears me. I got a wet leg already. So

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Speaker 2: if you ever wanted something so bad but when you

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Speaker 2: get it, you're.

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Speaker 3: Like, eh, yeah, or you never wanted a lot to.

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Speaker 2: Join something, but when you do join up, you're like,

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Speaker 2: I don't like these people, yeah that too, or even worse,

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Speaker 2: did you ever have the feeling man these people really

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Speaker 2: don't like me.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, a lot, like a lot, a lot.

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Speaker 2: You related all those things. So, according to report from

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Speaker 2: the Office of the Inspector General of the Department of Justice,

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Speaker 2: which looked into how one of the FBI's special agents

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Speaker 2: could go rogue, and I'll be quoting from their report throughout,

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Speaker 2: Bobby Hanson was not a good fit at the FBI.

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Speaker 2: They found this out too late. The same report concludes

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Speaker 2: that Robert Hanson quote had poor interpersonal skills and a

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Speaker 2: dour demeanor, and was an awkward and uncommunicative loaner who

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Speaker 2: conveyed a sense of intellectual superiority that alienated many of

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Speaker 2: his co workers. That's the worst, right, So his coworkers

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Speaker 2: eventually give Bob a nickname. They start calling him the Mortician,

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Speaker 2: which is the sort of nickname that says it all

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Speaker 2: in like four syllables.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, totally right.

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Speaker 2: So Hanson he was known to wear dark suits, have

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Speaker 2: this humorless dower demeanor, and he viewed himself as separate

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Speaker 2: and above everyone else at work. However, he was a

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Speaker 2: hard worker. For instance, the DOJ report indicates that quote

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Speaker 2: Hanson demonstrated significant initiative and organizational skills, developing, for example,

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Speaker 2: a case prioritization system that remains in use today at

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Speaker 2: the FBI. So he was bid with systems by himself.

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Speaker 3: Good for him.

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Speaker 2: He was also keenly aware that computers were the future

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Speaker 2: of law enforcement in like nineteen seventy six, Yeah, which

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Speaker 2: made his quote. Early supervisors regarded him as smart, technically proficient,

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Speaker 2: and analytical. So he was like an early tech bro

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Speaker 2: for the FBI, and they're like, I like this guy

356
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Speaker 2: out of his jib. Good. So first two years of

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Speaker 2: the FBI are spent at the field office in Gary, Indiana. Now,

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Speaker 2: oh heck, he tries to work on counterintelligence, but apparently

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Speaker 2: there aren't too many Soviet spies working in the Gary

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Speaker 2: metropolitan area. So yeah, Jackson, Yeah, totally Gary.

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Speaker 3: So he was just like all he anyone ever wanted

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Speaker 3: to talk about was Jackson family gossip.

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Speaker 2: It's a depressed economic or was it the time? Definitely

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Speaker 2: a depressed economic area. Oh yeah, so I imagine it

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Speaker 2: was mostly like you know, once again, like labor organizations

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Speaker 2: that they're trying to like pay attention to, following in

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Speaker 2: like the Jimmy Hoffa era, right, yeah. Yeah, So he

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Speaker 2: was primarily working like a financial crimes right, and that

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Speaker 2: pushes Bobby to ask for a transfer to the New

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Speaker 2: York Field Office where he can work counter intelligence to

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Speaker 2: the big show. Yeah, and he wants to be a

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Speaker 2: spy hunter. So the FBI is like, yeah, we'll see

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Speaker 2: about that. So but he does get transferred to the

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Speaker 2: New York Field Office eventually, like six months later, and

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Speaker 2: it's to work though on financial crimes. So he requests

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Speaker 2: after spending six months there he can work counterintelligence. I

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Speaker 2: really want to be a spy hunter. And he's like,

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Speaker 2: come on, man, come on, let me hunt spies. And

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Speaker 2: eventually some of the FBI is like, fine, Bob, shut,

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Speaker 2: if we let you hunt Soviet spot, will you leave

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Speaker 2: us alone? So he gets transferred to the Soviet counterintelligence squad, right,

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Speaker 2: but he's still being tasked primarily with financial crimes. He's

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Speaker 2: an accountant, there's plenty, so he's not doing true spy hunting.

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Speaker 2: He's working in the budget unit for the Soviet Analytical Unit. Okay, Now,

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Speaker 2: if like me, you're wondering, what does the budget unit

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Speaker 2: for the Soviet Analytical Unit end up doing, Like do

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Speaker 2: they track like financial payments or black market and gray

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Speaker 2: market accounts?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, kinda. But mostly what he does is work on

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Speaker 2: the FBI's budget to justify the bureau's budget request to Congress.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, signing off on like all the flights.

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Speaker 2: Literally he has to like prepare reports for Congress to

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Speaker 2: be like, okay, you guys are because you know, we're

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Speaker 2: right now at the Church Committee hearing, So the FBI

396
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Speaker 2: is on a very tight leash. We want to see

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Speaker 2: the receipt.

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Speaker 3: It would be you know, I'm a little disappointed in

399
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Speaker 3: the FBI because you have to be very suspicious, and

400
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Speaker 3: I would be very suspicious of someone with no training,

401
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Speaker 3: yes in Soviet culture history language, no Russian language training, be.

402
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Speaker 2: Like I need to I really need to wear counter toe.

403
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Speaker 2: He's in there, so eventually he does get access to

404
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Speaker 2: classified materials from the Intelligence Division. He also works with

405
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Speaker 2: the CIA and the NSA whenever the agencies have like

406
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Speaker 2: a joint venture with the FBI. So he isn't exactly

407
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Speaker 2: a spy hunter. He isn't a spy either. He's an

408
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Speaker 2: FBI accountant who works with their spy agencies. Unfortunately for him,

409
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Speaker 2: early on in his FBI career, his boss is determined

410
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Speaker 2: he's not really someone who's on the career fast path

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Speaker 2: for promotion since quote. His performance also revealed that he

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Speaker 2: lacked the interpersonal skills to communicate effectively and perform supervisory duties.

413
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Speaker 2: That said, as the DJ admitted him their report quote. Nonetheless,

414
00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:41,399
Speaker 2: Hanson's career at the FBI continued to advance. So he

415
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Speaker 2: just keeps getting bumped around, but not really kicked up.

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Speaker 2: The latter per.

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Speaker 3: Se, Yeah, there's a Ben Affleck movie, the Accountant. He

418
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Speaker 3: had something to look forward to.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he's a hit man.

420
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Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe one day.

421
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Speaker 2: At this point, it's the late nineteen seventies, Robert Hanson

422
00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:57,720
Speaker 2: is mad because even hew he can see the writing

423
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Speaker 2: is on the wall, even if it's written an invisible link.

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Speaker 2: He sees the promotions other agents earn, he sees the

425
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Speaker 2: promotions he fails to achieve. So what happens? Another great question, Elizabeth,

426
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Speaker 2: So you're keeping up too. The former wanna be spy

427
00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:11,240
Speaker 2: hunter gets so close to his dreams and then he

428
00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:13,840
Speaker 2: realizes he'll never achieve them, and he gets madder and

429
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Speaker 2: madder about this until finally he just gets pissed at

430
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Speaker 2: the FBI. So now what does he do? Well? He decides,

431
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Speaker 2: if I can't hunt spies for the FBI. Then the

432
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Speaker 2: FBI will have to hunt for me. In other words,

433
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Speaker 2: he decides to become a spy for the Soviet Union.

434
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Speaker 2: That'll show his bosses at the FBI what they missed

435
00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:33,119
Speaker 2: out on. It's admittedly backwards logic, but it's what he thinks.

436
00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:35,640
Speaker 2: So let's take a little break, and when we get back,

437
00:21:35,680 --> 00:22:00,920
Speaker 2: we'll learn how he turns double agents. We're back, Elizabeth

438
00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:02,800
Speaker 2: this we are you ready to learn more about bad

439
00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:06,280
Speaker 2: body hands. Okay, So at this point, like I said,

440
00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:09,159
Speaker 2: it's like nineteen seventy nine, nineteen eighty. He's working at

441
00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:11,480
Speaker 2: the FBI's New York Field office, and so one day

442
00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:13,800
Speaker 2: he decides to wander into the New York office for

443
00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:17,159
Speaker 2: am TORG. Now am Torg was a trade organization for

444
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:20,520
Speaker 2: the Soviet Union. It was also, according to the DOJ report,

445
00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:23,800
Speaker 2: known to be a front for the Soviet military intelligence agency.

446
00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:26,040
Speaker 2: So he just walks right in, walks right in. This

447
00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:28,359
Speaker 2: is not a chance to visit or a serendipitous encounter.

448
00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:30,760
Speaker 2: He knows full well and good he's walking into a

449
00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:32,440
Speaker 2: front for the Soviet spy services.

450
00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:33,000
Speaker 3: Yeah.

451
00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:35,280
Speaker 2: In fact, he brings them a gift to show his

452
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:38,320
Speaker 2: value as a spy. He delivers a package to a

453
00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:41,800
Speaker 2: Soviet field officer for the GRU. What is the GRU,

454
00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:44,240
Speaker 2: great question, Elizabeth. Let's go over a couple terms and

455
00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:47,200
Speaker 2: acronyms that may come up later. First, there's the KGB,

456
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:52,280
Speaker 2: which is short for the Committed Tet gos Sodarovitsni Basotzi,

457
00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:55,880
Speaker 2: or the Committee for State Security. Forgive my Russian. It's

458
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:58,760
Speaker 2: the Russian equivalent for the FBI. Is also the SVR,

459
00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:04,879
Speaker 2: which is short for theos Rolls. Once again, forget my Russian.

460
00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:07,639
Speaker 2: You could just say, no, it's much more fun to

461
00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:11,679
Speaker 2: me to butcher this. It's the Russian Foreign Intelligence Service SBR. Right,

462
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:14,159
Speaker 2: it's the equivalent of the KGB's foreign intelligence arm for

463
00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:17,159
Speaker 2: the Russian Federation. And finally, there's the g r U,

464
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:22,040
Speaker 2: which is short for a glovnoa where the nya rapavl

465
00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:26,240
Speaker 2: something close to that. So it's the Chief Intelligence.

466
00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:28,480
Speaker 3: Direct backwards, will it say what it really means, You'll.

467
00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:32,119
Speaker 2: Say, Paul is dead, Chief Intelligence Directorate of the General Staff.

468
00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:34,719
Speaker 2: It's the military intelligence for both the Soviet Union and

469
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:38,159
Speaker 2: the later Russian Federation. Yeah, okay, so back to our story.

470
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:41,120
Speaker 2: In the letter he includes in his package for the Soviets.

471
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:44,040
Speaker 2: Robert Hansen spells out that he is an FBI field agent.

472
00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:50,480
Speaker 2: I am an FBI agent, so he wants to switch

473
00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:53,800
Speaker 2: teams inspire for the Soviet Union. His package reveals no

474
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:56,320
Speaker 2: identifying information of who he is, but he insists that

475
00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,280
Speaker 2: g r U should trust him, that he really is

476
00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:01,720
Speaker 2: an FBI agent and he can get them all sorts

477
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:05,159
Speaker 2: of classified materials. And so for the next year and

478
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:07,720
Speaker 2: a half he does exactly that. He sells out his nation,

479
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:11,000
Speaker 2: but more than for money, he does it because he's

480
00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:12,840
Speaker 2: just pissed off and he wants to prove that he

481
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,320
Speaker 2: should be a player in the spy world. And then

482
00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:17,480
Speaker 2: he finally has achieved his dream of being a real

483
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:19,480
Speaker 2: life James Bond, only for the other side.

484
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:21,920
Speaker 3: Do you think the Russians thought it was a trap?

485
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:25,760
Speaker 2: Hold that thought? So his initial trial run as a

486
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:28,200
Speaker 2: Soviet spy doesn't last long because in nineteen eighty he's

487
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:31,639
Speaker 2: working doing a spycraft in his basement, going over classified

488
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:34,159
Speaker 2: materials he plans to sell to the Soviets, readying his

489
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:36,919
Speaker 2: next dead drop, you know, and wouldn't you know it,

490
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:39,920
Speaker 2: his wife walks in and finds him doing his spycraft.

491
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:42,720
Speaker 2: Hanson rushes to hide what he's working on. He's like

492
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:45,320
Speaker 2: mixing up paperwork. His wife is no fool. She can

493
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:47,399
Speaker 2: tell something up. She knows he works for the FBI,

494
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:50,520
Speaker 2: so she questions him and he admits to his wife that, yes, baby,

495
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:53,200
Speaker 2: I'm spying for the Soviets, selling American secrets.

496
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:56,359
Speaker 3: He just says everything, just says it right now.

497
00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:57,720
Speaker 2: I think she was grilling him for a while. I

498
00:24:57,720 --> 00:24:59,000
Speaker 2: don't think it was his first answer.

499
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:02,280
Speaker 3: He just walks in to the Soviet It's like, hey.

500
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:05,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, he's hiring. He's pretty arrogant about a lot

501
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:08,600
Speaker 2: of these things. So his wife, devout Catholic that she is,

502
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:10,960
Speaker 2: is horrified to lee that her husband is violating his

503
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:13,560
Speaker 2: oath as an FBI field agent. Yeah, also that he's

504
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:16,280
Speaker 2: helping the Kamis, and she makes him go to their

505
00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:18,520
Speaker 2: priest and tell him what he's done. So now this

506
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:20,960
Speaker 2: Padrey he goes to is affiliated with the Opus Day

507
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:24,439
Speaker 2: branch of the Church, well, which, as you know, is

508
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:28,760
Speaker 2: a right wing Catholic organization. Well, very much anti communist.

509
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:33,200
Speaker 3: Yes, and there are a lot of converts who enter

510
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:37,760
Speaker 3: Catholicism in search of power, yes, and they love Opus Day.

511
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:38,280
Speaker 2: Yeah.

512
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:40,560
Speaker 3: I don't know any like crib Catholics.

513
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:42,840
Speaker 2: The Catholic school. I knew a couple of guys. It

514
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 2: was like the really conservative Catholic families they like to

515
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:49,040
Speaker 2: stay because it was one, you're right about the power part,

516
00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:52,520
Speaker 2: but two it's really stringent in terms of like, for instance,

517
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:55,520
Speaker 2: he went to church. He attended Mass every single day.

518
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:58,639
Speaker 2: Oh wow, every day, the six thirty am services, and

519
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:00,320
Speaker 2: so a lot of them really liked that they had

520
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:04,280
Speaker 2: their boys going to church every day, right, So being

521
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:07,080
Speaker 2: a devout couple, they also have their six kids enrolled

522
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:09,840
Speaker 2: in Catholic schools, ones associated with Opus Day, so it's

523
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:11,200
Speaker 2: like very much a part of their life.

524
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:11,520
Speaker 3: Yeah.

525
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:13,399
Speaker 2: So when he goes and confesses to the priest that

526
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 2: he's working selling government secrets to the Communists of the

527
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:18,160
Speaker 2: Soviet Union, the priest is like, you need to knock

528
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:21,399
Speaker 2: it off. No a kidding, it's not. But the priest

529
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 2: is not at all cool with this, right, but he

530
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 2: decides not to rat him out. He's like, you're in

531
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 2: one of my prisoners.

532
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:28,359
Speaker 3: I'm not going to go and heat the sanctity of

533
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:29,639
Speaker 3: the confession completely.

534
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 2: So he doesn't. You know, apparently they can break that

535
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:35,080
Speaker 2: on their discretion for murders. And stuff. So this might

536
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:37,520
Speaker 2: fall under the I could break it on my discretion. Yeah,

537
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:41,119
Speaker 2: he decides not. Instead, his opis stay priest quote granted

538
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,119
Speaker 2: him absolution and told him that he did not have

539
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:45,679
Speaker 2: to turn himself in, but suggested that he'd donate the

540
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:49,440
Speaker 2: money he'd received from the gru to charity to the church. Yeah,

541
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:51,639
Speaker 2: so this is all according to the DOJ report. An

542
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:53,959
Speaker 2: old Bobby Hanton. He's good to his word to his priest.

543
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:56,680
Speaker 2: He does donate money to the church, as you pointed out,

544
00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:59,159
Speaker 2: and he donates the money he made from spying from

545
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 2: the Soviets too, Mother Teresa's charity Little Sisters of the Poor.

546
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:05,359
Speaker 2: So in nineteen eighty one, he stops being a trader

547
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:07,960
Speaker 2: to the US, he stops spying for the Soviets. I

548
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:09,720
Speaker 2: guess also they might have been a factor. Is that

549
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 2: you had Ronald Reagan newly elected in nineteen eighty a

550
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:15,640
Speaker 2: man who's famous for calling the Soviet Union the evil Empire. Yeah,

551
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:18,280
Speaker 2: and old Bobby Hanson he may have decided, you know,

552
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 2: even if he was pissed at the FBI for passing

553
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:24,359
Speaker 2: him over, he will quit spying for the evil Empire. Right. Also,

554
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 2: at this point he starts referring to Soviet Russians as godless. So,

555
00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:31,159
Speaker 2: now that he's no longer spying for the godless Soviets,

556
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:33,119
Speaker 2: what do you think happens to Robert Hanson? Do you

557
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:35,359
Speaker 2: think he becomes a happy employee, a man is just

558
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:37,480
Speaker 2: eager to do his part in Reagan's America, to.

559
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 3: Do whatever he gave Guess no, no?

560
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:41,439
Speaker 2: Or do you think maybe his ego is like, this

561
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:43,879
Speaker 2: is bs man, the FBI still doesn't respect us. We

562
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:47,400
Speaker 2: should go back to our old ways. Okay, yeah, yeah,

563
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:51,040
Speaker 2: if you said that one, you're right. So Robert Hanson

564
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 2: he decides, you know, hold to the vow he gave

565
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:55,640
Speaker 2: to his wife and his priest that he would stop

566
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:58,960
Speaker 2: spying for the godless Russians. But he also really had

567
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:01,919
Speaker 2: that nagging voice. He's like, I want to honor my

568
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:05,080
Speaker 2: ego and my sense of injustice that I wasn't allowed

569
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:07,879
Speaker 2: to become a spy hunter. So eventually, over time he

570
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:10,439
Speaker 2: picks his ego over his vows to his wife and

571
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:13,119
Speaker 2: his priest. Nineteen eighty five, he goes back to the

572
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:15,320
Speaker 2: Soviet Union. He's like, hey, you guys want me to

573
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:18,160
Speaker 2: spy for you again? Because I have some super tasty

574
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 2: classified materials I can sell you. The second time, though,

575
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:25,240
Speaker 2: he doesn't mess around with the GRU the Soviet military intelligence. Instead,

576
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:27,360
Speaker 2: he goes to the real fun guys at the KGB,

577
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:30,879
Speaker 2: the true spy agency. Now, like any good spy would,

578
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:33,679
Speaker 2: he creates a cover identity for himself. He identifies himself

579
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 2: and his dead drop deliveries as either the single letter

580
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 2: B or his other gnom de spy, Ramon Garcia.

581
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:44,960
Speaker 3: Wait, that's like Carlos Danger exactly.

582
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:47,960
Speaker 2: That's what I thought of from mong Garcia. So the

583
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 2: reason why he goes back to spying for the Soviets

584
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:52,440
Speaker 2: is obviously clearly his ego and his sense of fun

585
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 2: and danger, and also the lack of work that the

586
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 2: FBI has for him to do. Because, according to the

587
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 2: DOJ report, quote, Hanson was alcadaisical manager who did not

588
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 2: interact effectively with his subordinates, but only that he didn't

589
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,280
Speaker 2: really need to be like a hands on managerial type

590
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:12,040
Speaker 2: since his squad quote largely ran itself. However, his coworkers

591
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 2: did grow increasingly suspicious of him and what he was doing. Yeah,

592
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 2: as the report also puts, quote, Hanson's mishandling of classified

593
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:23,280
Speaker 2: information was obvious to his subordinates, but was not brought

594
00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:26,960
Speaker 2: to the attention of his superiors. Yeah. So at this point,

595
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 2: what secrets is he really selling to the Soviets?

596
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:30,240
Speaker 3: Yeah?

597
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 2: Fantastic questions And did you hear the.

598
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 3: Way I asked it? Yeah? So I was like, how

599
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:36,680
Speaker 3: does she do this?

600
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:39,440
Speaker 2: Edge of the seat. So, according to the DOJ, Robert

601
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 2: Hanson reaches out to the KGB on October fourth, nineteen

602
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:44,520
Speaker 2: eighty five. He drops an envelope in the mail and

603
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 2: he sends it to the home of a KGB field.

604
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 3: Agent in the US mail.

605
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:52,240
Speaker 2: He sends it to the KGB agent. Inside the envelope

606
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 2: is a second envelope that reads, do not open Take

607
00:29:55,240 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 2: this envelope unopen to Victor I Cherkishon or Cherkishan. Victor

608
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:03,280
Speaker 2: Cherkishan was a KGB field agent working out of the

609
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 2: Soviet Embassy in Washington, d C. Well known cat right.

610
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 2: The letter to Cherkishan identifies Robert Hanson by his new

611
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 2: spy name b Or Ramon Garcia, and in his letter

612
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:15,160
Speaker 2: he writes that he will send a box of sensitive

613
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 2: documents from the US intelligence community. They are original documents,

614
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 2: not copies. He points out if these documents are discovered,

615
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 2: they will implicate him, so like be cool man. And

616
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:27,240
Speaker 2: then he also said these documents can serve as evidence

617
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:30,600
Speaker 2: of his value a highly placed double agent.

618
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 3: So what kind of stuff was he sending?

619
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:34,960
Speaker 2: Well, I'll get to that in a second. In exchange,

620
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:37,800
Speaker 2: he asked for one hundred grand in cash and as

621
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 2: like a little gift, he also shares the names of

622
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:42,640
Speaker 2: three Soviet spies who flipped and are working with the

623
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:43,640
Speaker 2: CIA and FBI.

624
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 3: What.

625
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 2: Yes, he promises the Soviets that if the price is right,

626
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 2: he'd be happy to be their new man in Washington. Lastly,

627
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 2: he makes arrangements for his future dead drops using a

628
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:55,959
Speaker 2: code for dates and times. Remember he's watched all those

629
00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:58,440
Speaker 2: James Bond movies, right, Yeah. To show what a great

630
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:02,000
Speaker 2: spy guy is, he explained his planned code for their communication.

631
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:04,320
Speaker 2: His code is add six.

632
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:05,760
Speaker 3: That's it.

633
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:08,240
Speaker 2: So if he says meet him on February fourth at

634
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 2: three pm, he really means meet me on August tenth

635
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:14,440
Speaker 2: at nine pm. Add six to any date or time.

636
00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:15,360
Speaker 3: Oh my god.

637
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:18,200
Speaker 2: So there you go. Wanna be spy guy back in

638
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 2: the game. So, of course, the FBI field agents who

639
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:24,479
Speaker 2: surveil the Soviet spies in Washington, DC, they note that

640
00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:26,840
Speaker 2: one day a known spy shows up to work with

641
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 2: a large black canvas bag he doesn't normally carry into

642
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:32,440
Speaker 2: the office. Little do they know inside or classified materials

643
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:35,480
Speaker 2: from Robert Hanson. The wanna be spy hunter is successful

644
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:38,800
Speaker 2: at eluding the actual spy hunters. So far, so good

645
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 2: at this point, Robert Hanson and the Soviets, they set

646
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 2: up a series of dead drops. And now we've talked

647
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 2: about dead drops in the past, how they work, So

648
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 2: how does this want to be James Bond handle the

649
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:51,320
Speaker 2: passing of classified materials via the so called dead drops?

650
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:55,719
Speaker 2: Great question, Elizabeth. Now Hanson he explains to the Soviets

651
00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:59,040
Speaker 2: how they're going to do it. He's not the spy,

652
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:00,960
Speaker 2: they are the spy. He's like, this is ever gonna

653
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 2: do it.

654
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:03,240
Speaker 3: It's like I've seen so many Bond movies, some of

655
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 3: them twice.

656
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:06,840
Speaker 2: He puts in like a in sections. So he goes

657
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 2: drop location. Please leave your package for me under the

658
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:12,600
Speaker 2: corner nearest the street of the Wooden foot Bridge, located

659
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 2: just west of the entrance to Notaway Park. Package preparation

660
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 2: use a green or brown plastic trash bag and trash

661
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:24,120
Speaker 2: to cover a waterproofed package. Signal location. Signal site will

662
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 2: be the pictorial pedestrian crossing signpost just west of the

663
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 2: main Notaway Park entrance on Old Courthouse Road. The sign

664
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:35,040
Speaker 2: is the one nearest the bridge just mentioned signals. My

665
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 2: signal to you one vertical mark of white adhesive tape,

666
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 2: meaning I am ready to receive your package.

667
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 3: Oh wow.

668
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:46,360
Speaker 2: Your signal to me one horizontal mark of white adhesive

669
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:49,840
Speaker 2: tape meaning drop filled. My signal back to you, one

670
00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:53,600
Speaker 2: vertical mark of white adhesive tape, meaning I've received your package.

671
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 2: So the next month, in November eighty five, the Soviets

672
00:32:57,120 --> 00:33:00,600
Speaker 2: a Payhanson fifty thousand dollars for classified materials, which he

673
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 2: passed to them via their dead drop system. He also

674
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:06,680
Speaker 2: has some ideas about how they can improve their clandestine communications.

675
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:08,680
Speaker 3: So what he's saying, I'm going to put a vertical

676
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 3: piece of tape.

677
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:10,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, then you put a cross and.

678
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 3: I want you to give it to me. And then

679
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:15,160
Speaker 3: but then it also means I got it.

680
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 2: Yeah.

681
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:17,480
Speaker 3: It's just so if they see it and they're like, wait,

682
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 3: we have to give him more.

683
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:22,720
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think they's supposed to be time elapsing. Yeah,

684
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:25,080
Speaker 2: So at this point he's got some ideas for them.

685
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 2: He recommends the Soviets contact him via a computer message board, or,

686
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:31,720
Speaker 2: as he puts it, a micro computer bulletin board.

687
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:34,440
Speaker 3: Oh wait years this eighty five.

688
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:37,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that'll be their new agreed upon location with

689
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:40,640
Speaker 2: appropriate encryption. Now the Soviets are like, yeah, maybe not,

690
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:43,960
Speaker 2: let's use the rupts. I get this. Hanson also tells

691
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:46,040
Speaker 2: the Soviets he doesn't really want all the cash that

692
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:48,640
Speaker 2: they are offering him. In fact, if anything, the money

693
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:50,840
Speaker 2: is kind of creating a hassle for him, so he

694
00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 2: writes to his Soviet handlers, as far as the funds

695
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 2: are concerned, I have little need or utility for more

696
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:59,480
Speaker 2: than one hundred thousand dollars. It merely provides a difficulty

697
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:02,080
Speaker 2: since I can not spend it, store it, or invest

698
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 2: it easily without tripping drug money warning bills. Thanks for

699
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:08,880
Speaker 2: the money, guys, kind of a headache, so I added up.

700
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:12,879
Speaker 3: Still you got a bunch of kids, dude, Uh huh oh.

701
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:14,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's just doing it for the money. So instead

702
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:17,280
Speaker 2: he suggests that they pay him uncut diamonds.

703
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:19,719
Speaker 3: He loves spiced us.

704
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:22,160
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, totally. Apparently he's early on, like the guy

705
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:23,320
Speaker 2: Ritchie movie front.

706
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 3: How is he. I had a lot of questions there,

707
00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:29,440
Speaker 3: and you know, I think it'd be easier to wash

708
00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:31,400
Speaker 3: cash than diamonds.

709
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:33,600
Speaker 2: Uh, if you know how to launder money. I mean,

710
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:35,800
Speaker 2: he's an accountant, so you think he, of all people

711
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:37,960
Speaker 2: would But he also is an accountant, so he knows

712
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:39,640
Speaker 2: how difficult it is and how easy it is to

713
00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:40,879
Speaker 2: get caught with the paper trail.

714
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:43,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, so he's just gonna hang on to the dim diamonds.

715
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:46,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I hold value, and they increase in value over time.

716
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:48,680
Speaker 2: I guess you would hope Hanson tells the Soviet to

717
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:51,720
Speaker 2: this point, perhaps some diamonds is security to my children

718
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:53,720
Speaker 2: and some good will so that when the time comes,

719
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:56,440
Speaker 2: you will accept my senior services as a guest lecturer.

720
00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:59,360
Speaker 2: Because you see Elizabeth, Bobby already has a plan for

721
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 2: his second as a trader. He as he confides to

722
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:05,080
Speaker 2: his Soviet handlers, Eventually, I would appreciate an escape land

723
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 2: nothing less forever.

724
00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:07,800
Speaker 3: He's like, I want tenure.

725
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:11,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, he wants to exactly become a professor by write

726
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:13,920
Speaker 2: books about it. Now when he says nothing less forever,

727
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 2: and obviously that may have been part of him that

728
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:18,520
Speaker 2: was trying to protect against another part of him that

729
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:20,520
Speaker 2: thought it was a good idea to contact the KGB

730
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:24,880
Speaker 2: using an FBI telephone line. Wait, true story. He calls

731
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:27,880
Speaker 2: the KGB from an FBI phone line. Not only that,

732
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:30,960
Speaker 2: he also uses an FBI answering machine for the KGB

733
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:32,239
Speaker 2: to leave him messages.

734
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:33,359
Speaker 3: He's a super spot.

735
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:35,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you see. Around the same time he's developing

736
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:37,279
Speaker 2: more of his spycraft tech team.

737
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:39,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a scraft deal, right, he comes up with.

738
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 2: A new method to elude the FBI spy hunters and

739
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:45,800
Speaker 2: get this, he says, we should communicate via use car ads.

740
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:49,919
Speaker 2: Oh man, He writes the KGB about his new method.

741
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:52,399
Speaker 2: If you wish to continue our discussions, please have someone

742
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:55,000
Speaker 2: run an advertisement in the Washington Times during the week

743
00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:58,720
Speaker 2: of one twelve eighty seven or one nineteen eighty seven

744
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:02,759
Speaker 2: for sale Dog Diplomat nineteen seventy one needs engine work

745
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:05,360
Speaker 2: one thousand dollars. Give a phone number and time of

746
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:07,719
Speaker 2: day in the advertisement where I can call. I will

747
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:10,120
Speaker 2: call and leave a phone number where a recorded message

748
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:12,439
Speaker 2: can be left for me. In one hour. I will

749
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:15,200
Speaker 2: say hello, my name is Ramone. I'm calling about the

750
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:17,680
Speaker 2: car you offered for sale in the Times. You will

751
00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:20,320
Speaker 2: respond I'm sorry, but the man with the car is

752
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:22,560
Speaker 2: not there. Can I get your number? The number will

753
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:24,600
Speaker 2: be in area code two one two. I will not

754
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:28,600
Speaker 2: specify that area code on the line signed ramone.

755
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:32,239
Speaker 3: So that, okay, you say this, and then I'm going

756
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:32,799
Speaker 3: to say this.

757
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:36,600
Speaker 2: Roman Garcia, you wild come. So you have to remember

758
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:39,120
Speaker 2: it to add his six or his plus six code

759
00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:41,279
Speaker 2: on top of the used car ads such that when

760
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:44,400
Speaker 2: he says these advertisement weeks, he really means July sixth

761
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:46,240
Speaker 2: and or July thirteen day.

762
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:48,759
Speaker 3: Like we totally forgot about plus six thing, dude.

763
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:52,320
Speaker 2: So now that the used car ads does run as instructed,

764
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:54,640
Speaker 2: a call is placed in a response that begins a

765
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:57,080
Speaker 2: series of calls back and forth. The bad news for

766
00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:00,120
Speaker 2: Robert Hanson is one of their calls gets recorded by

767
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:05,279
Speaker 2: the Russians. So on Monday, course August eighteenth, nineteen eighty six,

768
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:09,680
Speaker 2: Robert Hanson phones a KGB agent. Now, Elizabeth, i'd like

769
00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:13,399
Speaker 2: you to be Robert Hanson. I will be the KGB agent.

770
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 3: Oh, we're doing so many playoffs.

771
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:18,480
Speaker 2: I love it, Okay, I thought we could have some

772
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:20,399
Speaker 2: fun with the more ridiculous crime theater.

773
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 3: I love ridiculous crime.

774
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:34,520
Speaker 4: Pay you opened it up with okay tomorrow morning.

775
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:37,440
Speaker 2: Oh yes, and the car is still available for you.

776
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:39,759
Speaker 2: And as we have agreed last time, I prepared all

777
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:41,840
Speaker 2: the papers and I left them on the same table.

778
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:44,120
Speaker 2: You didn't find them because I put them in another

779
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:47,680
Speaker 2: corner of the table. I see you shouldn't water. Everything

780
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:49,600
Speaker 2: is okay, The papers are with me now.

781
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:50,160
Speaker 3: Good.

782
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:54,000
Speaker 2: I believe under these circumstances. MMMM, it's not necessary to

783
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 2: make any changes concerning the place and the time. Our

784
00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:58,719
Speaker 2: company is reliable and we are ready to give you

785
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:01,880
Speaker 2: a substantial discount, which will be enclosed in the papers.

786
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:04,719
Speaker 2: Now about the date of our meeting, I suggested that

787
00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:07,360
Speaker 2: our meeting will be will take place without delay on

788
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:10,160
Speaker 2: February thirteenth, one three one pm.

789
00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:13,200
Speaker 3: Okay, February thirteenth, February.

790
00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:18,840
Speaker 2: Second, thirteenth one three one three yes, thirteenth one pm.

791
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:20,680
Speaker 3: Let me see if I can do that.

792
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:31,000
Speaker 2: Hold on okay, yeah, hello, okay, six six, That should

793
00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:34,840
Speaker 2: be fine. Okay. We will confirm you that the papers

794
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:37,120
Speaker 2: are waiting for you with the same horizontal tape in

795
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:39,399
Speaker 2: the same place as we did at that the first time.

796
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:40,800
Speaker 3: Very good.

797
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:42,839
Speaker 2: Now their convent goes on like this, I won't give

798
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:44,319
Speaker 2: you the whole thing, but they exchange a few more

799
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:47,000
Speaker 2: pleasantries like it's an actual transaction for a used car.

800
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:49,840
Speaker 2: And then the KGB agent says, I hope you remember

801
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:52,000
Speaker 2: the addresses. If everything is.

802
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:54,400
Speaker 3: Okay, well I believe it should be fine. Thank you

803
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:54,919
Speaker 3: very much.

804
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:58,200
Speaker 2: Not at all, not at all, nice job for both

805
00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:00,480
Speaker 2: of us. Have a nice evenings.

806
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:03,160
Speaker 3: Doa bye bye.

807
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:07,240
Speaker 2: There you go. That is a real life transcribed spy

808
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:11,759
Speaker 2: exchange brought to life by the RC players. Can I

809
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:14,040
Speaker 2: say how much I love that the FBI guy says

810
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 2: goodbye and Russian and the KGB agents like bye bye.

811
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:20,040
Speaker 2: These two were like children pretending to be spies on

812
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:23,400
Speaker 2: their like two cans and a string walkie talkie setup.

813
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:27,000
Speaker 3: Like whispering, totally whispering with someone off the like I

814
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:27,680
Speaker 3: do not know.

815
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:30,360
Speaker 2: It's just a transcription, so it doesn't say. And also

816
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:33,120
Speaker 2: they mentioned their white tape, their whole thing in the

817
00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:35,279
Speaker 2: car horizontal exactly.

818
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:39,000
Speaker 3: I mean, I think he was putting everything on FBI letterheads,

819
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:39,839
Speaker 3: all his little notes.

820
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:43,800
Speaker 2: Oh get this. Speaking of amateur hour, Hansen, former accountant,

821
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:46,759
Speaker 2: chooses to use a well documented savings account for his

822
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:49,720
Speaker 2: KGB funds that he receives for selling these American secrets.

823
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:52,400
Speaker 2: So remember he had a Swiss bank account as a kid.

824
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:55,560
Speaker 2: Once he starts selling US secrets, he's like, I'm sure

825
00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:57,279
Speaker 2: any old bank account is fine to use.

826
00:39:57,440 --> 00:39:58,720
Speaker 3: The FBI credit union.

827
00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:02,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. And also like at this time, Hanson is

828
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:05,160
Speaker 2: once again setting off alarm bells at the FBI with

829
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:08,399
Speaker 2: his personal comportment. Like he's not the dapper, ever cool

830
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:10,600
Speaker 2: James Bond you would want to be. He believes himself

831
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:13,759
Speaker 2: to be that doj reported Quoted earlier, one of his

832
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:17,239
Speaker 2: supervisors at the Soviet Analytical Unit describes Robert Hanson as

833
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:20,360
Speaker 2: quote the strangest person he's ever worked with in the FBI.

834
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:23,319
Speaker 2: Oh what kind of cipher? Who was rigid, dower and

835
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:27,000
Speaker 2: a religious zelot. He's also called distant and arrogant. So

836
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:29,120
Speaker 2: at this point he's setting off alarm bells, but only

837
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:29,920
Speaker 2: for being a weirdo.

838
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:30,799
Speaker 3: Yeah right, Yeah.

839
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:32,560
Speaker 2: Not only that, there's also this one story about how

840
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:36,160
Speaker 2: Hanson quote committed a serious security breach by disclosing sensitive

841
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:40,240
Speaker 2: informations to a Soviet defector he was debriefing. Hanson's colleagues

842
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:42,960
Speaker 2: recognized that he could not be trusted with highly sensitive

843
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:47,040
Speaker 2: information and informally attempted to restrict his access. Although this

844
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:50,000
Speaker 2: security breach was reported to an FBI supervisor, it was

845
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:53,160
Speaker 2: not documented and no formal action was taken against Hanson,

846
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:57,200
Speaker 2: whose access to sensitive information remained largely unchecked. So he's

847
00:40:57,200 --> 00:41:00,359
Speaker 2: slipping messages to Soviet defectors. His people, like.

848
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:02,560
Speaker 3: His coworkers, realize that, they're like, don't.

849
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:05,960
Speaker 2: Show them this report, right, They're not like. So despite

850
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:08,480
Speaker 2: the warning sides, Robert Hanson somehow continues to work as

851
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:10,920
Speaker 2: a spy for the Soviet Union, and nobody suspects it.

852
00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:15,040
Speaker 2: Except there's this one giant looming problem on the horizon,

853
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:17,520
Speaker 2: a problem that few, if any other spies at the

854
00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:21,319
Speaker 2: CIA or the FBI detected. The problem was Elizabeth, the

855
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:23,719
Speaker 2: complete collapse of the Soviet Union.

856
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:26,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was that little hiccup.

857
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:30,319
Speaker 2: Become a major problem for the American traders selling them secrets. Yeah.

858
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:32,319
Speaker 2: So before we get into that, let's take a little break.

859
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:33,960
Speaker 2: Let's just some ads, and when we get back, we

860
00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:36,279
Speaker 2: will answer the question, how do you keep spying if

861
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:59,480
Speaker 2: your main buyer of secrets goes out of business? We're

862
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:01,960
Speaker 2: back a bit, yes we are. Now you're digging the

863
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:05,440
Speaker 2: spying escapade, Amateur Hower Bob Hanson.

864
00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:08,480
Speaker 3: I just I can't believe the bumbling nature of it,

865
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:11,600
Speaker 3: and the arrogance and the arrogance, and like, holy, this

866
00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:12,880
Speaker 3: is my whole life stream.

867
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:15,480
Speaker 2: I thought a lot about this for years. You just

868
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:16,240
Speaker 2: can't tell.

869
00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:19,040
Speaker 3: Exactly he's that good of a spine.

870
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:21,719
Speaker 2: Now, before we get to the fall of this union,

871
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:24,880
Speaker 2: let's answer a couple of key questions. First up, what

872
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:27,240
Speaker 2: kinds of secrets was he selling? I didn't answer that earlier,

873
00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 2: and I meant to. I forgot to get to that.

874
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:32,920
Speaker 2: So I have here for you before me the DOJ

875
00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:36,320
Speaker 2: report on his spying, and they claim that quote Hanson

876
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:40,320
Speaker 2: delivered thousands of pages of highly classified documents and dozens

877
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:43,640
Speaker 2: of computer discs to the KGB, detailing US strategies in

878
00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:47,560
Speaker 2: the event of nuclear war, major developments and military weapons technology,

879
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:51,760
Speaker 2: identities of active and historical US assets in the Soviet

880
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:56,280
Speaker 2: intelligence services, the locations of KGB defectors in the United States,

881
00:42:56,560 --> 00:43:00,680
Speaker 2: analytical products from across the intelligence community, coppers of budget

882
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:03,920
Speaker 2: and policy documents, and many other aspects of the Soviet

883
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:09,879
Speaker 2: counterintelligence program. So basically everything. I just, yeah, he's he's good.

884
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:11,640
Speaker 2: You know, he's getting people killed too.

885
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:15,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not like little tiny financial.

886
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:20,719
Speaker 2: Things that he's identities, people's department, new weapons. Yeah, how

887
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:24,439
Speaker 2: they're getting caught. So not only is all this going down,

888
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:27,520
Speaker 2: he's also getting rather sloppy now about his spy because

889
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:31,520
Speaker 2: he's going so well for he Now it gets way

890
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:34,399
Speaker 2: worse because, as the DOJ tells it, Hanson quote became

891
00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:38,040
Speaker 2: increasingly careless, passing documents that clearly marked him as an

892
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:41,560
Speaker 2: FBI employee. For instance, there's his one point, Elizabeth, he

893
00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:44,080
Speaker 2: tried to convince the KGB to hire his best friend

894
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:49,320
Speaker 2: as a spy. Wait, the DOJ outlines a quote, in

895
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:53,040
Speaker 2: a particularly reckless move, Hanson suggested to the KGB that

896
00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:57,040
Speaker 2: an attempt to recruit Jack Hoshauer, Hanson's closest friend, who

897
00:43:57,080 --> 00:43:59,839
Speaker 2: was then serving as a military attest at the US

898
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:03,560
Speaker 2: Embassy in Bond in Germany. Yeah yeah, So meanwhile, there's

899
00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:06,040
Speaker 2: this evidence of his spying. The money he's earning are

900
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:08,040
Speaker 2: both growing in scale. He's trying to get his friends

901
00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:10,960
Speaker 2: hooked up. The KGB is paying him it so far

902
00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:14,319
Speaker 2: in cash about a half million dollars plus about three

903
00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:17,120
Speaker 2: uncut diamonds. I don't know how big. Yeah, what is

904
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 2: Hanson doing with all this money.

905
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:20,680
Speaker 3: Well, question, I'm glad you asked.

906
00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:24,000
Speaker 2: He puts it in US bank accounts, not Swiss bank accounts,

907
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:27,800
Speaker 2: And you asked earlier about like, oh the banks he

908
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:30,120
Speaker 2: was using. Did just use any old bank, Elizabeth? It's

909
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:32,359
Speaker 2: worse than that. He was using a bank located one

910
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:36,120
Speaker 2: block from FBI headquarters. Sure, because I guess he's lazy.

911
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:37,759
Speaker 2: He didn't want to have to walk too far.

912
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:38,600
Speaker 3: Exactly.

913
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:40,839
Speaker 2: There's something else that at one point he keeps about

914
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:42,719
Speaker 2: one hundred grand in cash in a gym bag in

915
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:45,960
Speaker 2: his bedroom closet. Don't you don't do that right where

916
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:47,840
Speaker 2: his wife might find it? Who found, you know stuff?

917
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:50,120
Speaker 2: Last time? You remember what happened last time? He had

918
00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:53,160
Speaker 2: to like confess to their preach, absolved to their sins,

919
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:54,720
Speaker 2: and donate the money to mother Teresa.

920
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:55,120
Speaker 3: Yeah.

921
00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:57,239
Speaker 2: So this that was only twenty one grand he had

922
00:44:57,239 --> 00:44:58,759
Speaker 2: to give to Mother Teresa. Now he's got like one

923
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:00,520
Speaker 2: hundred grand. Who'll have to give the the sisters?

924
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:01,000
Speaker 3: Yeah?

925
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:04,040
Speaker 2: Anyway, this is exactly what happens to him. In August

926
00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:07,760
Speaker 2: of nineteen ninety, his wife does find only though luckily

927
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:11,400
Speaker 2: tram five grand in her husband's dresser drawer, and she's like,

928
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:16,200
Speaker 2: you better not be selling secrets to the Soviet Union again. Uh. Now,

929
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:19,400
Speaker 2: this time she doesn't immediately confront her husband, though. Instead

930
00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:22,480
Speaker 2: she goes to her brother, Mark walk who is also

931
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:24,160
Speaker 2: an FBI special agent.

932
00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:24,720
Speaker 3: Stop.

933
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:28,919
Speaker 2: She tells him that he's selling secrets to the Soviet Union.

934
00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:32,120
Speaker 2: He reports this and other hinky things that he has

935
00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:34,360
Speaker 2: personally seen or heard about.

936
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:37,560
Speaker 3: Hansen's to be able to total Yeah.

937
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:40,400
Speaker 2: Tells his FBI supervisor. Now, will this be the end

938
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:44,400
Speaker 2: for Robert Hanson? Yeah, No, no, not at all, because

939
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:47,200
Speaker 2: the brother, like his boss, hears everything he's saying and

940
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:51,040
Speaker 2: he's like, look, we all have our secrets from our wives, right,

941
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:53,719
Speaker 2: I mean, just because he's hiding five grand in cash

942
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:56,400
Speaker 2: from his wife, it doesn't mean he's spying for the Soviets.

943
00:45:57,080 --> 00:45:59,320
Speaker 2: And his FI boss uses not to follow up on it.

944
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:05,839
Speaker 2: What Yes, So meanwhile, Hanson tells his wife, Okay, look,

945
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:08,719
Speaker 2: I've stopped contacting the Soviets, right, I'm out of the

946
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:11,560
Speaker 2: spy game, and I'll go talk to our priest and

947
00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:14,480
Speaker 2: confess my sins, Elizabeth. I can't say whether or not

948
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:16,759
Speaker 2: he actually did go to the priest and confess I

949
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:19,000
Speaker 2: can tell you he was not out of the spy game.

950
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:21,120
Speaker 2: He was lying to his wife. He stayed in the

951
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:23,200
Speaker 2: game for the money and his love of getting one

952
00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:25,680
Speaker 2: over on the FBI. So now the latter part is

953
00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:28,279
Speaker 2: easy enough to understand, But what about the former part.

954
00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:31,200
Speaker 2: Remember he told the Soviets he didn't really care about

955
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:33,120
Speaker 2: the money, but he does care about the money. So

956
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:35,880
Speaker 2: was he lying to them? Yes, yes he was. So

957
00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:39,040
Speaker 2: this raises another question. What's he spending the money on?

958
00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:42,800
Speaker 2: Great question, Elizabeth. According to the DOJ, he was spending

959
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:46,680
Speaker 2: cash on cars and gifts for people. He loans some

960
00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:50,520
Speaker 2: money to his brother in law, the FBI agent. Yeah, same,

961
00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:52,800
Speaker 2: won to report. So now anyway, Hans also he builds

962
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:55,800
Speaker 2: an addition onto his house. He pays his kids Catholic

963
00:46:55,880 --> 00:46:57,160
Speaker 2: school tuition in cash.

964
00:46:57,280 --> 00:46:57,880
Speaker 3: Yeah okay.

965
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:01,160
Speaker 2: He drops plenty of loot at strip clubs, and specifically

966
00:47:01,239 --> 00:47:03,840
Speaker 2: he gives a bunch of money to one stripper in particular.

967
00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:06,640
Speaker 2: Oh no, oh yeah, you's seen it. About nineteen eighty

968
00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:11,160
Speaker 2: nine eight nineteen ninety, he meets one Priscilla Sue Grayley,

969
00:47:11,239 --> 00:47:14,320
Speaker 2: who was an exotic dancer. He starts a platonic affair

970
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:14,640
Speaker 2: with her.

971
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:16,560
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, because no, she really loves me.

972
00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:19,520
Speaker 2: Guys, No, they both claim it's a platonic affair. Either way.

973
00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:22,440
Speaker 2: He lavishes her with gifts like a brand new Mercedes Benz.

974
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:25,279
Speaker 2: He also gives her a sapphire necklace. He gets her

975
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:27,920
Speaker 2: a new computer. He gives her cash for dental work.

976
00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:30,239
Speaker 2: He's a clean up your teeth. Fi's that grill. He

977
00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:32,640
Speaker 2: also pays for her to have an American Express credit card.

978
00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:34,880
Speaker 2: He just pays the balance for her. Yeah, not only that,

979
00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:38,919
Speaker 2: he takes her with him to France and to another trip,

980
00:47:39,120 --> 00:47:42,040
Speaker 2: a work trip to Hong Kong. That's right, he takes

981
00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:44,560
Speaker 2: his stripper girlfriend, who is obviously not his wife, along

982
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:47,479
Speaker 2: for an official FBI inspection in Hong Kong.

983
00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:48,520
Speaker 3: II.

984
00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:51,120
Speaker 2: The dude is getting super sloppy.

985
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:53,680
Speaker 3: But he's getting away with it. So what does he

986
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:54,560
Speaker 3: care exactly?

987
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 2: It just keeps fueling his arrogance. Years later, Priscilla shared

988
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:01,360
Speaker 2: her recollections of what life was like with Robert Hanson

989
00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:05,799
Speaker 2: with CNN's Larry King, Oh Larry. She recalled to Larry

990
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:07,520
Speaker 2: how she was working at a strip club that was

991
00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:10,680
Speaker 2: quote less than two miles from FBI headquarters in Washington,

992
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:12,279
Speaker 2: d C. So it's like just down the road from

993
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:15,239
Speaker 2: his bank. He would come in watch her undress to

994
00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:18,759
Speaker 2: like eighties music. And apparently one day Hanson tells his

995
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:21,920
Speaker 2: waitress that quote he had never expected to see anyone

996
00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:25,200
Speaker 2: of such grace and beauty in a strip club. And

997
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:27,680
Speaker 2: when she hears this from the waitress, who like rushes

998
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:30,200
Speaker 2: to tell and Priscilla runs out to tell him, thanks

999
00:48:30,239 --> 00:48:33,000
Speaker 2: for the kind words. Or she told Larry King, I

1000
00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:35,719
Speaker 2: think I chased him to thank him. It was so beautiful.

1001
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:37,680
Speaker 2: I had to know who had given it to me,

1002
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:41,080
Speaker 2: these words, these kind, kind words. And so begins their

1003
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:45,120
Speaker 2: fourteen month long friendship. I say that because she swears

1004
00:48:45,239 --> 00:48:47,640
Speaker 2: they were never intimate. In fact, she tried to get

1005
00:48:47,719 --> 00:48:50,000
Speaker 2: him to have sex. She tells Larry King that, and

1006
00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:53,480
Speaker 2: she says he always declined her. According to Priscilla, he

1007
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:56,719
Speaker 2: was a wonderful, wonderful human being. She also recalled that

1008
00:48:56,840 --> 00:49:00,000
Speaker 2: quote he talked lovingly of his wife and six children.

1009
00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:03,680
Speaker 3: Oh, it's a wonderful human being's talking lovingly of his family.

1010
00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:05,319
Speaker 2: She only knows about the money. She doesn't know he's

1011
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:09,040
Speaker 2: a spot. Yeah. So not only is he talking about

1012
00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:11,759
Speaker 2: his wife and his six kids and giving out compliments

1013
00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:14,279
Speaker 2: for her, like dancing to eighties music, I meet he

1014
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:16,880
Speaker 2: also talked a lot about God and being Catholic with her,

1015
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:20,320
Speaker 2: and as Priscilla said, every chance we could discuss religion,

1016
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:23,719
Speaker 2: it was right there. In fact, she says, Hansen tried

1017
00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:26,439
Speaker 2: to convince her to quit stripping and to convert to Catholicism.

1018
00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:30,640
Speaker 2: That did not happen. He could not marry Magdalen her away.

1019
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:34,399
Speaker 2: But what did happen is their relationship fell apart after

1020
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:37,720
Speaker 2: she used the AMEX credit card to buy Easter dresses

1021
00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:40,200
Speaker 2: for her nieces. I don't know why he's offended by that,

1022
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:42,600
Speaker 2: I guess because he didn't give approval. Anyway, he takes

1023
00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:45,520
Speaker 2: the American Express card away after that. She then also

1024
00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:48,640
Speaker 2: wrecked the new Mercedes he got her, which she had

1025
00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:51,560
Speaker 2: never insured, so she lost that. Oh no, she never

1026
00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:54,200
Speaker 2: did learn to use that computer. And finally she was

1027
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:57,600
Speaker 2: locked up for prostitution. And the former friends will call

1028
00:49:57,680 --> 00:49:59,960
Speaker 2: it parted ways for good now she was too much

1029
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:02,799
Speaker 2: of a liability, I guess. Anyway, things in his life

1030
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:06,080
Speaker 2: really started to change when one day after Christmas, the

1031
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:08,799
Speaker 2: day after Christmas in nineteen ninety one, the Soviet Union

1032
00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:12,799
Speaker 2: unexpectedly collapsed. And now Hanson is no one to sell

1033
00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:14,760
Speaker 2: his secrets to and he's really gotten kind of addicted

1034
00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:17,600
Speaker 2: to the money and the fun lifestyle, and plus he

1035
00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:20,480
Speaker 2: loves the spy game. So it's a bummer man, Like.

1036
00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:23,400
Speaker 3: What's he supposed to do? And he made such good friends.

1037
00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:25,800
Speaker 2: Except for good news for him is that after the

1038
00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:29,160
Speaker 2: Soviet Union falls, it's soon replaced by the Russian Federation.

1039
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:32,799
Speaker 2: As far as Hanson can tell, they still might buy

1040
00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:35,560
Speaker 2: American secrets, so he decides to reach out to the

1041
00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:37,840
Speaker 2: new government see if he can spy for them. For

1042
00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:40,560
Speaker 2: one after the Soviet Union falls, Hanson doesn't have much

1043
00:50:40,600 --> 00:50:42,400
Speaker 2: work to do because that's a problem for him, so

1044
00:50:42,480 --> 00:50:44,480
Speaker 2: he's like, I got time on Mansky spy for you guys.

1045
00:50:44,719 --> 00:50:44,919
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1046
00:50:45,080 --> 00:50:47,279
Speaker 2: His former unit gets broken up because remember he's a

1047
00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:50,200
Speaker 2: Soviet analytical unit, so they don't have anything to analyze,

1048
00:50:50,440 --> 00:50:53,879
Speaker 2: and he gets reassigned to the National Security Threat List unit.

1049
00:50:54,400 --> 00:50:57,040
Speaker 2: So once he's transferred there, according to the DOJ, rather

1050
00:50:57,160 --> 00:50:59,920
Speaker 2: than engage in the daily work of the unit, Hanson free,

1051
00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:02,400
Speaker 2: He said in his office, listening to Ford and language

1052
00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:04,920
Speaker 2: tapes for hours at a time. I'll give you one

1053
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:11,440
Speaker 2: guess what language he was trying to learn. Yes. Now, Additionally,

1054
00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:14,359
Speaker 2: at the time Hanson he's still spying in his sloppy way, because,

1055
00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:18,040
Speaker 2: according to the DOJ report quote, while in the NSTL unit,

1056
00:51:18,239 --> 00:51:21,759
Speaker 2: Hanson committed two serious and flagrant security breaches. First, he

1057
00:51:21,920 --> 00:51:25,440
Speaker 2: hacked into the FBI's computer system and accessed highly sensitive

1058
00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:28,600
Speaker 2: Soviet counterintelligence documents located on the hard drives of his

1059
00:51:28,719 --> 00:51:32,839
Speaker 2: colleagues and supervisors in the National Security Division. Hanson grew

1060
00:51:32,920 --> 00:51:35,040
Speaker 2: nervous about what he had done and decided to report

1061
00:51:35,080 --> 00:51:38,040
Speaker 2: it to FBI management in the guise of revealing a

1062
00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:41,920
Speaker 2: flaw in the FBI's computer security. Hanson's ruse succeeded, and

1063
00:51:42,040 --> 00:51:46,080
Speaker 2: no one questioned his breach of computer security. Right, you'd

1064
00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:47,880
Speaker 2: think that the FBI would be suspicious.

1065
00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:50,160
Speaker 3: I think that should get you fired on the spot.

1066
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:53,239
Speaker 2: Yeah. There's also a second security breach when he tells

1067
00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:57,440
Speaker 2: someone from British intelligence about this sensitive FBI investigation. And

1068
00:51:57,520 --> 00:51:59,360
Speaker 2: then there's a third one because he gets into a

1069
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:02,080
Speaker 2: fight with a female coworker at work, which leads to

1070
00:52:02,120 --> 00:52:05,520
Speaker 2: an investigation of Hanson. The result out of all of this, yeah,

1071
00:52:05,560 --> 00:52:07,480
Speaker 2: he's suspended for five days. That's it.

1072
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:08,040
Speaker 3: That's it.

1073
00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:10,520
Speaker 2: The FBI never ever suspects he might be the biggest

1074
00:52:10,560 --> 00:52:14,759
Speaker 2: double agent in Bureau's history. Meanwhile, Hanson is still super

1075
00:52:14,800 --> 00:52:16,480
Speaker 2: eager to get back in the spy game, and he's

1076
00:52:16,520 --> 00:52:19,040
Speaker 2: just waiting for the Russian Federation to get on their feet. Yeah,

1077
00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:21,279
Speaker 2: and then you know, maybe they'll take him back. As

1078
00:52:21,360 --> 00:52:22,840
Speaker 2: you know, because he's looking at him, he's like, I

1079
00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:25,279
Speaker 2: don't think this whole new capitalist power is going to go.

1080
00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:27,600
Speaker 2: I think they're going to revert to their former ways. Yeah,

1081
00:52:27,719 --> 00:52:31,400
Speaker 2: I did. Exactly one day, Robert Hanson decides to do

1082
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:34,560
Speaker 2: a cold call with the GRU the military intelligence for

1083
00:52:34,640 --> 00:52:37,560
Speaker 2: the new Russian Federation up. Yeah, but you know, rather

1084
00:52:37,600 --> 00:52:38,440
Speaker 2: than me tell you about.

1085
00:52:38,239 --> 00:52:40,719
Speaker 3: It, Elizabeth, close your eyes, my eyes closed, I.

1086
00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:49,440
Speaker 2: Want you to picture it. It's a warm July day

1087
00:52:49,440 --> 00:52:51,719
Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety three. At the moment, Elizabeth, you were

1088
00:52:51,760 --> 00:52:53,960
Speaker 2: seated in your car in the underground parking lot of

1089
00:52:54,000 --> 00:52:56,880
Speaker 2: an apartment complex in Washington, DC. You have the air

1090
00:52:56,920 --> 00:52:59,200
Speaker 2: conditioning on because it's been a sticky one and you

1091
00:52:59,320 --> 00:53:02,719
Speaker 2: just need a moment of calm, quiet and cool. The

1092
00:53:02,800 --> 00:53:06,240
Speaker 2: air conditioning blows true chill against your sweat dappled face.

1093
00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:10,080
Speaker 2: You sigh to yourself as the stress drains away. You

1094
00:53:10,280 --> 00:53:13,759
Speaker 2: hear a loud car door slam shut. It brings you

1095
00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:15,759
Speaker 2: out of your moment of peace. You check the rear

1096
00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:18,200
Speaker 2: view mirror and you see that across the parking lot

1097
00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:20,360
Speaker 2: is a middle aged man in a business suit standing

1098
00:53:20,440 --> 00:53:22,680
Speaker 2: next to his car. He checks his watch, he grabs

1099
00:53:22,719 --> 00:53:26,360
Speaker 2: his briefcakes. Satisfied, he begins to walk off. You're about

1100
00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:29,439
Speaker 2: to look away when you hear a muted whistle. Both

1101
00:53:29,560 --> 00:53:32,040
Speaker 2: you and the man look to see what or who

1102
00:53:32,280 --> 00:53:34,440
Speaker 2: was the source of the whistle. A man in a

1103
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:36,839
Speaker 2: trench coat, dressed like he's a detective in a mid

1104
00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:39,920
Speaker 2: century noir film, steps out of the shadows. He walks

1105
00:53:40,040 --> 00:53:42,320
Speaker 2: towards the middle aged man in the business suit. The

1106
00:53:42,440 --> 00:53:45,040
Speaker 2: man in the trench coat nods. He says something, but

1107
00:53:45,120 --> 00:53:47,400
Speaker 2: with the air conditioning on, you can't hear him. You

1108
00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:49,839
Speaker 2: see him approach the middle aged man in the business suit,

1109
00:53:49,880 --> 00:53:52,400
Speaker 2: who looks both curious and a bit scared of the

1110
00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:55,279
Speaker 2: man in the trench coat. You guess that they haven't

1111
00:53:55,360 --> 00:53:58,520
Speaker 2: heard your well maintained engine idling, so in order to

1112
00:53:58,560 --> 00:54:01,200
Speaker 2: hear their conversation, you press a button in your car

1113
00:54:01,320 --> 00:54:04,560
Speaker 2: window lowers. The man in the trench coat stops a

1114
00:54:04,600 --> 00:54:06,440
Speaker 2: few feet from the man in the business suit, he

1115
00:54:06,560 --> 00:54:10,200
Speaker 2: greets him in is that Russian? You recognize it from

1116
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:12,800
Speaker 2: the two semesters of Russian you took in college. You

1117
00:54:12,960 --> 00:54:15,319
Speaker 2: lower yourself in the driver's seat and crane your head

1118
00:54:15,400 --> 00:54:17,919
Speaker 2: toward the open car windows so you can hear them better.

1119
00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:20,480
Speaker 2: The man in the trench coat reverts back to English,

1120
00:54:20,560 --> 00:54:23,839
Speaker 2: and you hear him say I'm with the FBI. If

1121
00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:25,920
Speaker 2: he didn't really just say the FBI. Is this some

1122
00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:28,920
Speaker 2: sort of like Watergate moment? The man in the business

1123
00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:32,279
Speaker 2: suit replies, in Russian accent in English, I have diplomatic

1124
00:54:32,320 --> 00:54:34,880
Speaker 2: community and I have done nothing wrong. The man in

1125
00:54:34,920 --> 00:54:38,120
Speaker 2: the trench coat smiles darkly. He seems pleased with that answer.

1126
00:54:38,200 --> 00:54:41,400
Speaker 2: He says in response, before the Soviet Union collapse, I

1127
00:54:41,560 --> 00:54:45,080
Speaker 2: used to work for the KGB. My name is Ramon Garcia,

1128
00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:48,239
Speaker 2: and I have something for you. The Russian man now

1129
00:54:48,360 --> 00:54:50,960
Speaker 2: seems curious but a little hesitant. The man in the

1130
00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:53,640
Speaker 2: trench coat lifts a Manila envelope into view and he says,

1131
00:54:54,040 --> 00:54:56,759
Speaker 2: this is for you. The Russian doesn't take it, but

1132
00:54:56,880 --> 00:54:58,560
Speaker 2: he does continue to listen as the man in the

1133
00:54:58,600 --> 00:55:01,120
Speaker 2: trench coat says, it's a list of double agents in

1134
00:55:01,200 --> 00:55:04,279
Speaker 2: the gru that the FBI is running. Consider it a

1135
00:55:04,360 --> 00:55:07,840
Speaker 2: show of my loyalty and evidence of my value. The

1136
00:55:07,920 --> 00:55:12,080
Speaker 2: Russian MUD's the and repeats, but I'm just diplomats. The

1137
00:55:12,160 --> 00:55:15,000
Speaker 2: man in the Trench Code slyly smirks and says, yeah, sure,

1138
00:55:15,080 --> 00:55:17,560
Speaker 2: sure of course you are. But here take it. Give

1139
00:55:17,600 --> 00:55:20,040
Speaker 2: it to your superiors if they like it. There's more

1140
00:55:20,080 --> 00:55:23,279
Speaker 2: where that came from. There's instructions about how to contact me.

1141
00:55:24,120 --> 00:55:27,400
Speaker 2: Holy crap, you think this is just like in the movies,

1142
00:55:27,480 --> 00:55:30,960
Speaker 2: but kind of lamer. A double agent selling state secrets

1143
00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:34,080
Speaker 2: in a shadowy parking lot. The Russian man is reluctant,

1144
00:55:34,120 --> 00:55:37,160
Speaker 2: but he does take them the nil envelope. Good choice.

1145
00:55:37,200 --> 00:55:39,319
Speaker 2: I look forward to hearing from you, says the man

1146
00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:41,600
Speaker 2: in the Trench Code. He spins on his heels and

1147
00:55:41,719 --> 00:55:44,520
Speaker 2: walks off. The Russian man watches him go for a moment.

1148
00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:47,560
Speaker 2: He shakes his head to himself and then walks off

1149
00:55:47,640 --> 00:55:50,880
Speaker 2: in the opposite direction. Meanwhile, you don't know what to

1150
00:55:50,960 --> 00:55:53,759
Speaker 2: think or who to tell about what you just saw.

1151
00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:57,200
Speaker 2: In the movies, witnesses like you to such transactions usually

1152
00:55:57,239 --> 00:55:59,239
Speaker 2: wind up dead. You don't want to do that. You

1153
00:55:59,320 --> 00:56:01,040
Speaker 2: have way too much to do this week. You can't

1154
00:56:01,040 --> 00:56:04,120
Speaker 2: afford to wind up dead. So there you go, Elizabeth,

1155
00:56:04,760 --> 00:56:07,439
Speaker 2: you just witnessed Robert Hansen cold call.

1156
00:56:08,040 --> 00:56:13,279
Speaker 3: He's Russians, and if I'm the Russians, I'm like, who

1157
00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:15,960
Speaker 3: is this numpty? I don't want nothing to do with them.

1158
00:56:16,200 --> 00:56:18,080
Speaker 2: So this is his effort to get back in the

1159
00:56:18,120 --> 00:56:21,160
Speaker 2: spy game, the more fumbling attempt you could possibly do.

1160
00:56:21,880 --> 00:56:25,160
Speaker 2: So was he successful? Probably yes, The answer is no,

1161
00:56:26,440 --> 00:56:30,160
Speaker 2: because the Russians he contacts, they're suspicious as all hell. Right,

1162
00:56:30,600 --> 00:56:32,840
Speaker 2: who's this random American walking up and going I'm with

1163
00:56:32,920 --> 00:56:35,960
Speaker 2: the KGM, I'm with the FBI, and you know, in

1164
00:56:36,040 --> 00:56:38,719
Speaker 2: a Washington, DC parking lot of an apartment comp It's

1165
00:56:38,719 --> 00:56:41,760
Speaker 2: just so random, and he's a double agents telling state secrets.

1166
00:56:41,960 --> 00:56:45,040
Speaker 2: How many state secrets could this numpty really have? So

1167
00:56:45,120 --> 00:56:48,120
Speaker 2: the Russian he does take the Manila envelope to his bosses.

1168
00:56:48,160 --> 00:56:50,279
Speaker 2: They do look through it, but they also suspect this

1169
00:56:50,440 --> 00:56:52,920
Speaker 2: must be a setup. Right at the time, the Russians

1170
00:56:52,960 --> 00:56:55,680
Speaker 2: were working with the US government to rebuild their country

1171
00:56:55,719 --> 00:56:59,080
Speaker 2: into this capitalist power under Yeltsin, so it's you know,

1172
00:56:59,200 --> 00:57:01,600
Speaker 2: it's after the fall this union. This is not in

1173
00:57:01,680 --> 00:57:05,320
Speaker 2: their best interest to betray the Americans, right, So the Russians.

1174
00:57:05,360 --> 00:57:08,560
Speaker 2: They contact the FBI and they report the contact with

1175
00:57:08,640 --> 00:57:11,520
Speaker 2: the double agent named Ramone Garcia because they assumed this

1176
00:57:11,600 --> 00:57:13,000
Speaker 2: must be a test of their loyalty.

1177
00:57:13,840 --> 00:57:17,080
Speaker 3: So that's a good call, right, smart, That's what real

1178
00:57:17,160 --> 00:57:18,960
Speaker 3: spies do, Yes, exactly.

1179
00:57:19,200 --> 00:57:21,480
Speaker 2: So when the FBI hears about this, the FBI is like, no,

1180
00:57:21,680 --> 00:57:24,720
Speaker 2: we didn't run a counterintelligence test. Who did you say contact?

1181
00:57:24,800 --> 00:57:29,760
Speaker 2: Did you Ramone Garcia? Was it? So the FBI opened, Yeah,

1182
00:57:29,760 --> 00:57:31,920
Speaker 2: we don't have anyone on the roll call. So the

1183
00:57:32,040 --> 00:57:35,040
Speaker 2: FBI the open investigation to find this purported double agent.

1184
00:57:35,160 --> 00:57:37,840
Speaker 2: They create an investigative file on their computer system. And

1185
00:57:37,880 --> 00:57:41,120
Speaker 2: you remember who's good of computers, right, m Yeah, Robert Hanson.

1186
00:57:41,280 --> 00:57:43,720
Speaker 2: So he checks the investigative file to see what the

1187
00:57:43,800 --> 00:57:47,520
Speaker 2: FBI has on Old Ramone Garcia. Oh, you're luckily for him.

1188
00:57:47,560 --> 00:57:49,480
Speaker 2: The FBI opens the file and that was about all

1189
00:57:49,520 --> 00:57:54,840
Speaker 2: they did with it. They also had nothing on Ramone Garcia. Meanwhile, Elizabeth,

1190
00:57:54,960 --> 00:57:58,120
Speaker 2: there is another American spy selling state secrets at this

1191
00:57:58,280 --> 00:58:00,800
Speaker 2: exact same time. Yeah, but do you remember the name

1192
00:58:00,880 --> 00:58:04,760
Speaker 2: Aldrich Ames. Yeah, So he was another huge embarrassment of

1193
00:58:04,800 --> 00:58:07,800
Speaker 2: the nineteen nineties and eighties for the American intelligence community.

1194
00:58:07,800 --> 00:58:11,320
Speaker 2: Aldrich Ames is often described as this alcoholics CIA spy

1195
00:58:11,400 --> 00:58:14,000
Speaker 2: who went rogue. And you see, the CIA had started

1196
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:16,160
Speaker 2: to believe they had this mole when double agents in

1197
00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:19,160
Speaker 2: the former Soviet Union began to disappear. So to root

1198
00:58:19,200 --> 00:58:22,520
Speaker 2: him out, the CIA investigates all their operations and starting

1199
00:58:22,600 --> 00:58:25,200
Speaker 2: in March of ninety three, the CIA starts focusing on

1200
00:58:25,280 --> 00:58:28,880
Speaker 2: Aldrich Ames. They bug his car, they rifle through his trash,

1201
00:58:28,960 --> 00:58:32,240
Speaker 2: they have agents following him. Finally, in February of ninety four,

1202
00:58:32,560 --> 00:58:35,800
Speaker 2: the CIA goes into action. They arrest Aldrich Ames and

1203
00:58:35,960 --> 00:58:38,120
Speaker 2: what He's just on his way to attend a conference

1204
00:58:38,160 --> 00:58:40,080
Speaker 2: in Moscow. So I think he knew they were onto him.

1205
00:58:40,080 --> 00:58:41,280
Speaker 2: He's trying to cut loose. Yeah.

1206
00:58:41,400 --> 00:58:41,600
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1207
00:58:41,720 --> 00:58:44,240
Speaker 2: At that same time, Robert Hanson is busy willing the

1208
00:58:44,320 --> 00:58:47,120
Speaker 2: New Russian Federation to get back in the spy game.

1209
00:58:47,560 --> 00:58:49,440
Speaker 2: The secrets that he sells to the Russians make it

1210
00:58:49,480 --> 00:58:52,560
Speaker 2: clear that Aldrich Ames isn't the only one selling state secrets.

1211
00:58:52,840 --> 00:58:57,360
Speaker 3: But if the FBI is told by the Russians, an

1212
00:58:57,560 --> 00:59:01,520
Speaker 3: FBI guy came to us and his name is Remote Garcia. Yeah,

1213
00:59:01,640 --> 00:59:04,240
Speaker 3: They're like, that's not Did you open a file in

1214
00:59:04,400 --> 00:59:07,640
Speaker 3: your computer? System on that if you know it's an insight.

1215
00:59:07,760 --> 00:59:10,080
Speaker 2: Actually they could. They don't have an auditing program on

1216
00:59:10,120 --> 00:59:13,360
Speaker 2: their computer, so they don't know who's accession, and I would.

1217
00:59:13,160 --> 00:59:15,640
Speaker 3: Just be like, okay, this stays off the books, like

1218
00:59:15,880 --> 00:59:17,400
Speaker 3: this is like elite.

1219
00:59:17,920 --> 00:59:21,000
Speaker 2: No, No, there's a bunch of bumbling on all sides

1220
00:59:21,000 --> 00:59:21,600
Speaker 2: except for the right.

1221
00:59:22,040 --> 00:59:25,280
Speaker 3: Is very much changing my view on the sill level

1222
00:59:25,360 --> 00:59:26,000
Speaker 3: of the FBI.

1223
00:59:26,280 --> 00:59:28,760
Speaker 2: So the FBI, the CIA, they hear about this other

1224
00:59:28,920 --> 00:59:31,439
Speaker 2: mole and they begin a tag team operation called Gray

1225
00:59:31,640 --> 00:59:36,040
Speaker 2: Suit to ferret out the secret double agent. So I

1226
00:59:36,080 --> 00:59:39,439
Speaker 2: swear to God like the suit so good. So there's

1227
00:59:39,440 --> 00:59:41,440
Speaker 2: a plan for the FBI to run a polygraph lie

1228
00:59:41,480 --> 00:59:44,640
Speaker 2: detector test for all their field agents, but the bosses

1229
00:59:44,680 --> 00:59:46,520
Speaker 2: are against it. Now you may be thinking, oh, it's

1230
00:59:46,600 --> 00:59:49,320
Speaker 2: like this is junk science exactly, but you think like,

1231
00:59:49,360 --> 00:59:50,920
Speaker 2: maybe it's because it'll take a ton of time and

1232
00:59:50,960 --> 00:59:53,480
Speaker 2: they're going to argue against him. But no, they're like,

1233
00:59:53,600 --> 00:59:56,280
Speaker 2: a trained agent could beat a polygraph test. And also

1234
00:59:56,480 --> 00:59:59,560
Speaker 2: to your point, it's it's bunk science. So eventually they're

1235
00:59:59,640 --> 01:00:02,880
Speaker 2: joining investigation. Does turn up a possible mole? Is it

1236
01:00:03,040 --> 01:00:07,000
Speaker 2: Ramon Garcia? Is it Robert Hanson? Essentially is it his

1237
01:00:07,240 --> 01:00:10,880
Speaker 2: brother in law. No, it's a CIA spy named Brian Kelly.

1238
01:00:11,360 --> 01:00:15,200
Speaker 2: He's totally innocent, but the US intelligence community is convinced

1239
01:00:15,360 --> 01:00:19,000
Speaker 2: he's the rest selling the American secrets. So they ruined

1240
01:00:19,000 --> 01:00:22,120
Speaker 2: this poor man's life. They just drive him like it's

1241
01:00:22,160 --> 01:00:25,760
Speaker 2: it's bad now. Meanwhile, Robert Hanson not a suspect at all,

1242
01:00:25,920 --> 01:00:28,440
Speaker 2: not on anyone's radar, despite his past with all the

1243
01:00:28,520 --> 01:00:30,640
Speaker 2: times he's been flagged or red flagged for things.

1244
01:00:30,960 --> 01:00:33,360
Speaker 3: I mean, it's like I've lost count Yes, a number

1245
01:00:33,400 --> 01:00:36,120
Speaker 3: of times people will be like, well, the it wasn't

1246
01:00:36,120 --> 01:00:38,640
Speaker 3: supposed to do. Then he printed up all these lists

1247
01:00:38,680 --> 01:00:41,520
Speaker 3: and walked him across over to the MBC. Then there

1248
01:00:41,640 --> 01:00:44,000
Speaker 3: was the time, I mean, and we call him, what

1249
01:00:44,160 --> 01:00:45,560
Speaker 3: is the mortician?

1250
01:00:45,800 --> 01:00:48,520
Speaker 2: The mortician? Yeah, nobody likes him. He thinks he's better

1251
01:00:48,560 --> 01:00:51,600
Speaker 2: than everybody. So instead he's given a new cushy job

1252
01:00:51,640 --> 01:00:54,640
Speaker 2: at the State Department because Civiet Union's gone, so he

1253
01:00:54,640 --> 01:00:56,520
Speaker 2: doesn't have anything to do, so his new job is

1254
01:00:56,640 --> 01:00:59,360
Speaker 2: essentially push paper around. Virtually no one checks his work.

1255
01:00:59,560 --> 01:01:02,800
Speaker 2: He's left to loan for the next six years, six

1256
01:01:02,960 --> 01:01:05,240
Speaker 2: years from ninety three to ninety nine, so according to

1257
01:01:05,360 --> 01:01:08,440
Speaker 2: six years. Six years. According to the DOJ, Hanson apparently

1258
01:01:08,720 --> 01:01:11,720
Speaker 2: would spend quote hours each day out of the office

1259
01:01:12,120 --> 01:01:15,480
Speaker 2: or surfing the internet, watching movies on his personal laptop computer,

1260
01:01:15,760 --> 01:01:18,560
Speaker 2: and visiting friends and acquaintances. Oh and also he was

1261
01:01:18,680 --> 01:01:20,240
Speaker 2: still spying for the Russians.

1262
01:01:19,960 --> 01:01:22,440
Speaker 3: So you know, there was absolutely nothing to do in

1263
01:01:22,520 --> 01:01:24,880
Speaker 3: the FBI or the State Department in the late nineties.

1264
01:01:24,920 --> 01:01:27,160
Speaker 2: Oh yeah. And by the way, the Russians from ninety

1265
01:01:27,240 --> 01:01:29,440
Speaker 2: three to ninety nine, for that six year window, they

1266
01:01:29,600 --> 01:01:32,000
Speaker 2: keep not they will not take him on as like

1267
01:01:32,320 --> 01:01:34,080
Speaker 2: a new person. They're like, I don't know about this guy.

1268
01:01:34,280 --> 01:01:36,040
Speaker 2: They're the only ones who are like, he's hanky like

1269
01:01:36,200 --> 01:01:38,440
Speaker 2: so yeah, the ones who can benefit from what he

1270
01:01:38,520 --> 01:01:41,080
Speaker 2: has are like, this guy is a mess. I am

1271
01:01:41,120 --> 01:01:43,600
Speaker 2: not dealing with that. So in nineteen ninety six, he

1272
01:01:43,760 --> 01:01:47,520
Speaker 2: is given a routine background check finally, not because he's

1273
01:01:47,560 --> 01:01:50,120
Speaker 2: a suspect. It's just his routine background check. But it's

1274
01:01:50,160 --> 01:01:53,360
Speaker 2: not all that routine because it's the first background check

1275
01:01:53,400 --> 01:01:57,240
Speaker 2: he's done in twenty years since he was first hired

1276
01:01:57,320 --> 01:02:00,200
Speaker 2: at the FBI. So when they run his background.

1277
01:02:00,160 --> 01:02:03,600
Speaker 3: Even after he has those major security missteps.

1278
01:02:03,120 --> 01:02:06,120
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, nobody, let's just check up. So when they

1279
01:02:06,200 --> 01:02:08,280
Speaker 2: do finally run a background check on him, you think

1280
01:02:08,320 --> 01:02:11,600
Speaker 2: anything pops up. No, a ton of red flags pop up,

1281
01:02:12,320 --> 01:02:16,600
Speaker 2: just a field of red flags like a meadow of flowers, right,

1282
01:02:17,000 --> 01:02:22,560
Speaker 2: But the FBI dismisses them all. And get this, they

1283
01:02:22,680 --> 01:02:25,720
Speaker 2: never call him in for an interview. What No, even

1284
01:02:25,760 --> 01:02:27,520
Speaker 2: with all the red flags, they never talked to him.

1285
01:02:27,880 --> 01:02:29,720
Speaker 2: They talk to a couple of his coworkers. They are like, yeah,

1286
01:02:29,720 --> 01:02:30,680
Speaker 2: he's weird, and that's it.

1287
01:02:31,600 --> 01:02:33,320
Speaker 3: He's just mediocre everyone.

1288
01:02:33,880 --> 01:02:36,440
Speaker 2: He's just this annoying paper pusher, a man who doesn't

1289
01:02:36,480 --> 01:02:38,560
Speaker 2: work well with others. And there's no way he's secretly

1290
01:02:38,600 --> 01:02:42,480
Speaker 2: the biggest spy in FBI history. So how does he

1291
01:02:42,600 --> 01:02:43,040
Speaker 2: get caught?

1292
01:02:43,520 --> 01:02:45,680
Speaker 3: That's a very good questions answer, great.

1293
01:02:45,600 --> 01:02:48,840
Speaker 2: Question, Elizabeth, and I will tell you. In nineteen ninety nine,

1294
01:02:49,120 --> 01:02:51,680
Speaker 2: Hanson is playing around on FBI computers and he finds

1295
01:02:51,800 --> 01:02:55,400
Speaker 2: the FBI is still investigating a suspected mole, but they're

1296
01:02:55,440 --> 01:02:58,240
Speaker 2: convinced it's a CIA agent, so he feels safe to

1297
01:02:58,280 --> 01:03:00,600
Speaker 2: try to make contact with the Russians again not looking

1298
01:03:00,680 --> 01:03:03,919
Speaker 2: at me, which he does. This time. He finally gets

1299
01:03:03,960 --> 01:03:07,360
Speaker 2: the Russians to take him seriously as Ramon Garcia, he

1300
01:03:07,520 --> 01:03:10,200
Speaker 2: arranges to make new dead drops. Right, he's able to

1301
01:03:10,280 --> 01:03:14,240
Speaker 2: pass the Russians information on the most significant Russian sources

1302
01:03:14,320 --> 01:03:17,400
Speaker 2: at the CIA and the FBI have folks who flipped

1303
01:03:17,400 --> 01:03:19,919
Speaker 2: and now work as double agents. And for that info,

1304
01:03:20,040 --> 01:03:22,600
Speaker 2: he receives fifty grand as payment and the hook is

1305
01:03:22,680 --> 01:03:25,440
Speaker 2: once again set. He is back on the line. Over

1306
01:03:25,480 --> 01:03:28,680
Speaker 2: the next year, Hanson keeps passing the Russians all these

1307
01:03:28,680 --> 01:03:31,440
Speaker 2: American secrets, but the Russians they still don't seem to

1308
01:03:31,480 --> 01:03:33,960
Speaker 2: fully trust him because they often don't even go to

1309
01:03:34,000 --> 01:03:36,240
Speaker 2: pick up the materials he leaves at the dead drops,

1310
01:03:36,880 --> 01:03:38,000
Speaker 2: just like, I don't know, do you want to go?

1311
01:03:40,560 --> 01:03:40,720
Speaker 2: You go?

1312
01:03:41,000 --> 01:03:43,880
Speaker 3: Just that says thank you, tell.

1313
01:03:43,800 --> 01:03:46,200
Speaker 2: Them we went, yeah, put the tape down, throw it away.

1314
01:03:46,240 --> 01:03:49,800
Speaker 2: I don't know. So this pisses off Hanson because he's like,

1315
01:03:49,880 --> 01:03:52,360
Speaker 2: do they not realize how valuable I am? So on

1316
01:03:52,520 --> 01:03:55,960
Speaker 2: March fourteenth, two thousand, Hanson writes this pissy letter to

1317
01:03:56,080 --> 01:04:00,240
Speaker 2: the Russians, and I quote Elizabeth, I've come a as

1318
01:04:00,280 --> 01:04:02,840
Speaker 2: close as I ever want to come to sacrificing myself

1319
01:04:02,920 --> 01:04:07,240
Speaker 2: to help you, and I get silence. I hate silence. Conclusion.

1320
01:04:07,600 --> 01:04:11,120
Speaker 2: One might propose that I am either insanely brave or

1321
01:04:11,400 --> 01:04:15,960
Speaker 2: quite insane. I'd answer neither. I'd say insanely loyal. Take

1322
01:04:16,040 --> 01:04:19,920
Speaker 2: your pick. There is insanity in all the answers I have, However,

1323
01:04:20,200 --> 01:04:22,480
Speaker 2: come as close to the edge as I can without

1324
01:04:22,520 --> 01:04:27,280
Speaker 2: being truly insane. My security concerns have proven reality based.

1325
01:04:27,480 --> 01:04:31,280
Speaker 2: I'd say, pin your hopes on insanely loyal and go

1326
01:04:31,480 --> 01:04:34,560
Speaker 2: for it. Only I can lose. I decided on this

1327
01:04:34,680 --> 01:04:39,440
Speaker 2: course when I was fourteen years old. Now that is insane, ey.

1328
01:04:39,840 --> 01:04:44,520
Speaker 2: My only hesitations were my security concerns under uncertainty. I

1329
01:04:44,680 --> 01:04:48,720
Speaker 2: hate uncertainty. So far I have judged the edge correctly.

1330
01:04:48,960 --> 01:04:52,240
Speaker 2: Give me credit for that. Set the signal at my sight.

1331
01:04:52,560 --> 01:04:56,640
Speaker 2: Any Tuesday evening, I will read your answer. Please at

1332
01:04:56,720 --> 01:04:59,960
Speaker 2: least say goodbye. It's been a long time, my dear friend,

1333
01:05:00,440 --> 01:05:05,040
Speaker 2: a long and lonely time, sincerely, Ramon Garcia.

1334
01:05:06,640 --> 01:05:08,840
Speaker 3: Oh my god, he just wants closure. It's been a

1335
01:05:08,880 --> 01:05:12,600
Speaker 3: long time, a long time, been along lonely, lonely, loly,

1336
01:05:12,720 --> 01:05:13,680
Speaker 3: lonely lonely.

1337
01:05:13,560 --> 01:05:18,040
Speaker 2: Time exactly, he writes the Dear John letter to the Russians,

1338
01:05:18,680 --> 01:05:20,480
Speaker 2: begging them to use him as a spot.

1339
01:05:22,240 --> 01:05:25,840
Speaker 3: Him. I'm not crazy. Yeah, when you hear that.

1340
01:05:26,800 --> 01:05:30,240
Speaker 2: It is three definitions of crazy. I'm either this one

1341
01:05:30,400 --> 01:05:32,760
Speaker 2: or that one. I'm take your pick on the third

1342
01:05:32,760 --> 01:05:35,520
Speaker 2: of all. Actually all, I'm none of those. I'm another

1343
01:05:35,800 --> 01:05:39,120
Speaker 2: secret crazy you haven't thought of. In the words of

1344
01:05:39,160 --> 01:05:42,160
Speaker 2: my man bugs Bunny, what a maroon exactly. So, for

1345
01:05:42,280 --> 01:05:45,520
Speaker 2: one last attempt to show how valuable he is, Hansen

1346
01:05:45,600 --> 01:05:48,760
Speaker 2: shares with the Russians that underneath their new embassy in Washington,

1347
01:05:48,880 --> 01:05:51,120
Speaker 2: d C. The FBI has dug a tunnel so they

1348
01:05:51,200 --> 01:05:54,040
Speaker 2: can secretly snoop and listen to the Russians. That gets

1349
01:05:54,040 --> 01:05:57,200
Speaker 2: their attention, he told, yes. But then something that he

1350
01:05:57,320 --> 01:06:01,120
Speaker 2: never suspected would happen occurs. What's that? For a price

1351
01:06:01,200 --> 01:06:05,160
Speaker 2: of seven million dollars, a former KGB spy hands over

1352
01:06:05,240 --> 01:06:09,560
Speaker 2: to the FBI the Kremlins full dossier on this double

1353
01:06:09,600 --> 01:06:12,600
Speaker 2: agent that they've been dealing with. That file becomes the

1354
01:06:12,640 --> 01:06:16,000
Speaker 2: smoking gun. Unfortunately, though it only lists the fbis as

1355
01:06:16,040 --> 01:06:17,960
Speaker 2: a double agent as Romote Garcia.

1356
01:06:18,440 --> 01:06:20,920
Speaker 3: He annoyed them so much she s got They're like here,

1357
01:06:21,000 --> 01:06:21,640
Speaker 3: you burn them.

1358
01:06:23,200 --> 01:06:25,400
Speaker 2: So the FBI still needs to figure out who Romote

1359
01:06:25,400 --> 01:06:28,760
Speaker 2: Garcia is. Luckily, for the counter intelligence operatives, there is

1360
01:06:28,800 --> 01:06:30,720
Speaker 2: a fingerprint on one of the files.

1361
01:06:31,040 --> 01:06:31,640
Speaker 3: You're kidding.

1362
01:06:31,800 --> 01:06:35,920
Speaker 2: Also, there's that KGB recording that we dramatize craft excellent

1363
01:06:36,040 --> 01:06:38,520
Speaker 2: phone call with the double agent, remember with the used

1364
01:06:38,520 --> 01:06:43,160
Speaker 2: car there the diplomat yea. So two FBI agents recognized

1365
01:06:43,160 --> 01:06:46,320
Speaker 2: the voice as their coworker, Bob Hanson. The FBI also

1366
01:06:46,400 --> 01:06:48,360
Speaker 2: then uses the secrets that he passed to draw up

1367
01:06:48,400 --> 01:06:51,040
Speaker 2: a list of possible suspects. Pretty much at the top

1368
01:06:51,120 --> 01:06:53,720
Speaker 2: of that list, it's a very short list, is Robert Hanson.

1369
01:06:53,800 --> 01:06:54,000
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1370
01:06:54,040 --> 01:06:56,040
Speaker 2: So they're like, okay, let's strike one, strike two, let's

1371
01:06:56,080 --> 01:06:59,680
Speaker 2: go talk to Hanson. So they then have Hanson transferred

1372
01:06:59,720 --> 01:07:03,320
Speaker 2: back FBI headquarters so they can monitor him round the clock. Yeah.

1373
01:07:03,320 --> 01:07:05,800
Speaker 2: They also begin to surveil them. They follow him, they

1374
01:07:05,880 --> 01:07:09,600
Speaker 2: surveiled known Russian operatives, and that's how on February twelve,

1375
01:07:09,680 --> 01:07:11,800
Speaker 2: two thousand and one, the FBI is able to discover

1376
01:07:11,920 --> 01:07:15,240
Speaker 2: a fifty grand payoff the Russians leave for Hanson at

1377
01:07:15,280 --> 01:07:18,320
Speaker 2: a dead drop. Six days later, I'm not going to

1378
01:07:18,360 --> 01:07:20,960
Speaker 2: fire him. Hanson leaves a package for the Russians under

1379
01:07:21,000 --> 01:07:23,840
Speaker 2: that footbridge, taped up in a waterproof trash bag like

1380
01:07:24,000 --> 01:07:26,560
Speaker 2: as he instructed. The dead drop takes place in this

1381
01:07:26,640 --> 01:07:29,720
Speaker 2: spot called fox Stone Park in a Washington, DC suburb

1382
01:07:29,800 --> 01:07:33,440
Speaker 2: called Vienna, Virginia or Vienna, I don't know. After Hanson

1383
01:07:33,480 --> 01:07:35,880
Speaker 2: walks off, the FBI swoop in arrest him. When the

1384
01:07:36,000 --> 01:07:39,080
Speaker 2: FPA agent finally bust him, Hanson coolly says, what took

1385
01:07:39,160 --> 01:07:42,640
Speaker 2: you so long? Oh God, I'm guessing he practiced that

1386
01:07:42,720 --> 01:07:43,240
Speaker 2: in the mirror.

1387
01:07:43,480 --> 01:07:47,760
Speaker 3: He had to have, and I would have smacked. So

1388
01:07:48,000 --> 01:07:50,280
Speaker 3: I would have slapped him right in front of everybody.

1389
01:07:50,400 --> 01:07:53,439
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, children like on like swings or just falling

1390
01:07:53,520 --> 01:07:55,320
Speaker 2: up the swings, Like what did they do to that guy?

1391
01:07:56,040 --> 01:07:59,840
Speaker 2: So he ends his spy career and also obviously the

1392
01:08:00,040 --> 01:08:04,320
Speaker 2: biggest intelligence failure in FBI history. Obviously, the secret to

1393
01:08:04,360 --> 01:08:06,720
Speaker 2: his success is not that he's some master spy, because

1394
01:08:06,760 --> 01:08:09,000
Speaker 2: he was not. That he's not some real life James Bond.

1395
01:08:09,200 --> 01:08:12,760
Speaker 2: In fact, quite the opposite. He's successful because everyone looks

1396
01:08:12,880 --> 01:08:16,360
Speaker 2: past him, Everyone underestimates him, everyone thinks he's an idiot

1397
01:08:16,520 --> 01:08:18,920
Speaker 2: or annoying. They assume that the weird guy that they

1398
01:08:18,960 --> 01:08:22,400
Speaker 2: called the Mortician is just some kind of like unfunny joke. Yeah,

1399
01:08:22,600 --> 01:08:27,360
Speaker 2: even the Russians don't respect him, and they're benefiting. So

1400
01:08:27,600 --> 01:08:29,280
Speaker 2: there you go. That's how you pulled it off, is

1401
01:08:29,360 --> 01:08:33,400
Speaker 2: just being so repulsive to everybody and repugnant and eric

1402
01:08:33,439 --> 01:08:36,439
Speaker 2: and everyone's like, couldn't be that jerk, So what's our

1403
01:08:36,479 --> 01:08:37,320
Speaker 2: ridiculous takeaway?

1404
01:08:37,400 --> 01:08:41,519
Speaker 3: Harold God, that's the you know, the mediocrity of it,

1405
01:08:41,640 --> 01:08:47,320
Speaker 3: and even just below that, m I I'm I don't know.

1406
01:08:48,960 --> 01:08:51,640
Speaker 3: I think about how terrified I'd be if I was,

1407
01:08:51,720 --> 01:08:54,960
Speaker 3: for some reason in his position and this idea that

1408
01:08:55,160 --> 01:08:57,479
Speaker 3: like I'm just going to continue to do my thing,

1409
01:08:57,680 --> 01:09:01,000
Speaker 3: and I can't believe that they had a many opportunities

1410
01:09:01,080 --> 01:09:03,280
Speaker 3: to at the very least get rid of them.

1411
01:09:03,400 --> 01:09:03,800
Speaker 2: Oh yeah.

1412
01:09:04,880 --> 01:09:08,680
Speaker 3: And then it's just some I feel like there are

1413
01:09:08,680 --> 01:09:11,560
Speaker 3: a lot of people in this world who get passes

1414
01:09:11,720 --> 01:09:14,360
Speaker 3: like that, oh yeah, And I don't feel like I'm

1415
01:09:14,400 --> 01:09:17,760
Speaker 3: that person. I feel like I'm'm constantly like worried that

1416
01:09:17,880 --> 01:09:20,679
Speaker 3: I'm going to like lose my job or that somebody's

1417
01:09:20,720 --> 01:09:23,519
Speaker 3: gonna fall apart or people will hate me. And I

1418
01:09:23,760 --> 01:09:25,800
Speaker 3: don't know what that's like to walk through life with

1419
01:09:25,920 --> 01:09:28,839
Speaker 3: that like pig confidence totally.

1420
01:09:28,880 --> 01:09:31,479
Speaker 2: I mean, like all of the facts are telling you, yeah, yeah,

1421
01:09:31,520 --> 01:09:34,200
Speaker 2: I'm not going to be suspicious of him. He's a geek,

1422
01:09:34,320 --> 01:09:36,680
Speaker 2: he's annoying. Yeah, I mean like so ultimately is his

1423
01:09:36,800 --> 01:09:41,160
Speaker 2: identity as an annoying, arrogant nerd who really really kind

1424
01:09:41,200 --> 01:09:45,000
Speaker 2: of helped push people away from the obvious trip. So uh,

1425
01:09:46,560 --> 01:09:49,160
Speaker 2: I guess that's my ridiculous take around. I claim that one.

1426
01:09:49,400 --> 01:09:51,120
Speaker 2: So you in the mood for a talkback, Elizabeth, I

1427
01:09:51,320 --> 01:09:54,400
Speaker 2: am excellent producer, D Can you favor us with one?

1428
01:10:03,400 --> 01:10:09,840
Speaker 2: I went cheat because I just want to say thank

1429
01:10:09,880 --> 01:10:17,000
Speaker 2: you for giving me smiling and laughing even after this

1430
01:10:17,240 --> 01:10:17,920
Speaker 2: previous day.

1431
01:10:18,000 --> 01:10:24,240
Speaker 4: We're a hacker deleted everything and walked me out of

1432
01:10:25,439 --> 01:10:27,479
Speaker 4: all my computers.

1433
01:10:27,000 --> 01:10:30,800
Speaker 2: And my phone. So thank sorry, brother from from the

1434
01:10:30,880 --> 01:10:34,400
Speaker 2: bom of my heart. Oh honey, we're giving you the

1435
01:10:34,439 --> 01:10:39,720
Speaker 2: biggest hug of the weekend. That's the worst, oh man,

1436
01:10:39,760 --> 01:10:43,120
Speaker 2: I can hear in your voice. Yeah, that is just terrible.

1437
01:10:44,320 --> 01:10:47,080
Speaker 3: I'm really hoping that you were able to gather some

1438
01:10:47,240 --> 01:10:52,720
Speaker 3: stuff and then bring, you know, rebuild. But I'm so

1439
01:10:52,920 --> 01:10:53,600
Speaker 3: sorry to hear that.

1440
01:10:54,000 --> 01:10:57,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, I meane gld that we could be there in

1441
01:10:57,120 --> 01:11:01,040
Speaker 2: any possible way to help alleviate and lift. Yes, you

1442
01:11:01,080 --> 01:11:02,920
Speaker 2: know you didn't you didn't mess up. That was that

1443
01:11:03,040 --> 01:11:05,759
Speaker 2: was that was just a tragedy that befel you right exactly,

1444
01:11:07,560 --> 01:11:09,560
Speaker 2: so uh, I'm sorry to hear that.

1445
01:11:09,760 --> 01:11:09,960
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1446
01:11:11,160 --> 01:11:14,479
Speaker 2: Well, as you can always find us online Ridiculous Crime,

1447
01:11:14,760 --> 01:11:18,400
Speaker 2: Blue Sky Instagram. We have a account Ridiculous Crime Pod

1448
01:11:18,600 --> 01:11:21,479
Speaker 2: on YouTube that's po d pod like a whale pod.

1449
01:11:21,880 --> 01:11:25,479
Speaker 2: We have a website, Ridiculous Crime dot com and uh

1450
01:11:25,680 --> 01:11:28,640
Speaker 2: we obviously love your hearing your talkbacks. We'd like to

1451
01:11:28,720 --> 01:11:31,200
Speaker 2: be there for you guys, so please give us a

1452
01:11:31,520 --> 01:11:34,080
Speaker 2: go to the iHeart app download leave a talkback. Maybe

1453
01:11:34,280 --> 01:11:36,320
Speaker 2: you'll hear your voice here. We'd love to hear it

1454
01:11:36,760 --> 01:11:37,960
Speaker 2: in good in bad weather.

1455
01:11:38,160 --> 01:11:39,400
Speaker 3: We hear your voices.

1456
01:11:39,479 --> 01:11:41,519
Speaker 2: Hang in there, y'all own email us if you want

1457
01:11:41,600 --> 01:11:44,920
Speaker 2: at Ridiculous Crime at gmail dot com. As always, thank

1458
01:11:44,920 --> 01:11:47,920
Speaker 2: you for listening and we will catch you next crime.

1459
01:11:53,200 --> 01:11:56,320
Speaker 2: Ridiculous Crime is hosted by Elizabeth Dutton and Zaron Brunette,

1460
01:11:56,360 --> 01:11:59,679
Speaker 2: produced and edited by our man in Amsterdam, Dave Kustin,

1461
01:11:59,880 --> 01:12:03,439
Speaker 2: and starring Annalys Rucker as Judith. Research is by The

1462
01:12:03,760 --> 01:12:06,680
Speaker 2: M and Q to R, James Bond, Marissa Brown and

1463
01:12:06,760 --> 01:12:09,880
Speaker 2: Jabari Davis. Our theme song is by our house band,

1464
01:12:10,280 --> 01:12:13,840
Speaker 2: The Falcon and The No Man aka Thomas Lee and

1465
01:12:13,960 --> 01:12:16,800
Speaker 2: Travis Dutt. The host wardrobe provided by bonton You, five

1466
01:12:16,880 --> 01:12:21,200
Speaker 2: hundred guest hair, makeup by Sparkleshark and mister Andre. Executive

1467
01:12:21,240 --> 01:12:24,720
Speaker 2: producers are the co inventors of the Super Secret Dakota Ring,

1468
01:12:25,000 --> 01:12:37,799
Speaker 2: Ben Bolan and Nol Brown. Why Say It One More Times?

1469
01:12:38,000 --> 01:12:42,719
Speaker 1: Cry Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio four more podcasts.

1470
01:12:42,840 --> 01:12:46,040
Speaker 1: My heart Radio visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

1471
01:12:46,040 --> 01:12:47,799
Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.