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Speaker 1: You're a veteran of the World Economic Forum.

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Speaker 2: It's Sam's first of I'm curious, how receptive do you

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Speaker 2: think world leaders will be to know that message that

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Speaker 2: we just heard, maybe leaning into the disruptive changes at

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Speaker 2: AI will bring and perhaps.

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Speaker 1: You know, not as much fighting them.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I think that.

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Speaker 4: You know, we're in a really incredible moment in technology,

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Speaker 4: and I'm sure everybody knows that and can feel it

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Speaker 4: experienced that.

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Speaker 3: It's awesome.

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Speaker 4: And we were just at this UK Safety summit together

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Speaker 4: and this is where regulators from around the world are

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Speaker 4: really coming together in a really unique way, because I

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Speaker 4: had never seen the minister of every technology country coming

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Speaker 4: into a forum to say, we are going to regulate

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Speaker 4: this technology. You know, you look at social media over

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Speaker 4: the last decade. It's been a fucking shit show what's

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Speaker 4: been going on, and regulators have not done their job.

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Speaker 4: And so to see them actually start to take this

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Speaker 4: very seriously, that is amazing and very important.

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Speaker 3: And I think this idea.

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Speaker 4: That companies like open AI or Microsoft and others want

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Speaker 4: to create digital people that can do all kinds of

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Speaker 4: tasks that we do. You know, will they be taxed,

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Speaker 4: to how they'll be regulated, what are the dangers involved?

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Speaker 4: All of these kind of important questions. At the same time,

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Speaker 4: we want to have these incredible benefits of AI that

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Speaker 4: we're all experiencing, better healthcare, better education, you know, augmentation

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Speaker 4: of our ye. Let me tell you an incredible story

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Speaker 4: where I was just in Milan with Gucci and they

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Speaker 4: brought us into work on their call center and very excited.

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Speaker 4: How do we use AI? How do we create better

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Speaker 4: customer service? But we don't really know what is their

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Speaker 4: end goal? Is it more productivity? You know, is it

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Speaker 4: just better customer relationships? As a higher margins, do they

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Speaker 4: want to do staff? Do they want to increase staff?

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Speaker 4: But when we apply the technology that we're seeing now,

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Speaker 4: what we saw was the current state of AI, which

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Speaker 4: is really the ability to augment human being. Human performance

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Speaker 4: revenues went up thirty percent because these individuals who were

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Speaker 4: call center service agents also then simultaneously became sales agents

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Speaker 4: marketing agents. They were able to do all these things

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Speaker 4: that they just could not do before. And that's a

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Speaker 4: tremendous theme I think that's going on. I feel that

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Speaker 4: way myself, you know, when I'm with chat GPT or

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Speaker 4: co pilot or anthropic cloud or whatever it is. Mister Awl,

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Speaker 4: I get that same feeling. Oh wow, I've got a

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Speaker 4: little bit more capability than I had before because I'm

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Speaker 4: being augmented through AI. And I'm sure it's true in

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Speaker 4: a lot of disciplines. Certainly it's true in healthcare, and

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Speaker 4: it's going to be true in a lot more things.

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Speaker 3: But we're on an arc and we all know that that.

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Speaker 4: You know, it's going to start to be able to

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Speaker 4: do things that will be fundamentally a surrogate for what

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Speaker 4: we all.

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Speaker 2: Do today and what will determine whether a company can

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Speaker 2: be successful with AI or no, how long will.

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Speaker 4: It be until I come to Davos to be interviewed

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Speaker 4: by the Bloomberg AI.

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Speaker 3: That's what I really want to go. I'm going to

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Speaker 3: replace well maybe you know. I mean, we've been doing.

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Speaker 4: This together for a long time, right, what a couple decades?

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Speaker 4: Few decades? I'm not that old, but okay, but you

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Speaker 4: know what I mean where it's like, you know, I

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Speaker 4: don't know when we get to this point where there's

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Speaker 4: not just all of us in the room, but there's

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Speaker 4: an AI as well participating in this conversation, and we're

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Speaker 4: about to create digital people, digital salespeople, digital service people,

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Speaker 4: digital marketing people. And you know, certainly we can see

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Speaker 4: it in radiology already. You know, I had a CTA scan,

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Speaker 4: you know where they look at your heart with a

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Speaker 4: CT scanner.

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Speaker 3: Over the last fifteen years, I've had three of them.

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Speaker 3: Everything good, everything's good. Great.

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Speaker 4: What was interesting was fifteen years ago and I did it.

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Speaker 4: The guys who did it in LA who kind of

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Speaker 4: invented calcium scoring and all that kind of stuff. They

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Speaker 4: were there looking at it the screen, etc. And then

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Speaker 4: the computer comes out and says gives a number like

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Speaker 4: six five four. Then five years ago is actually quite

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Speaker 4: a bit better. And the CT scan got a lot better.

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Speaker 4: And last year it was amazing. But then they took

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Speaker 4: the scan from last year and then they can just

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Speaker 4: put it into this new software product and they got

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Speaker 4: the same result as if the radiologist was reading it there.

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Speaker 4: And I think that is very interesting because hey, I

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Speaker 4: can go to an incredible scanning center in.

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Speaker 3: LA, but.

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Speaker 4: Think about all the places in the world who may

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Speaker 4: not have that top flight radiologist now they have it.

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Speaker 4: That's a level of democratization and equanimity made possible by

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Speaker 4: AI and technology that we just don't have before, and

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Speaker 4: it's a digital radiologist. So yeah, we're going to have

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Speaker 4: to have government step in. We're going to have to

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Speaker 4: have partnership. It's going to have to be a multi

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Speaker 4: stakeholder dialogue, and we're going to have to get to

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Speaker 4: a higher level when it comes to AI, and we're

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Speaker 4: gonna have to visualize the future and think about what's

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Speaker 4: going to happen because, as Sam likes to say, we

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Speaker 4: don't really know what's going to happen next. But we

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Speaker 4: all saw Minority Report, you know, we saw war games,

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Speaker 4: we know about how you know, we saw the movie Her.

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Speaker 4: It doesn't take our rocket scientist to fill it in.

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Speaker 4: A lot of people who are in this room could

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Speaker 4: come in here and sit in this chair and kind

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Speaker 4: of give their prophecy on AI because we've all been

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Speaker 4: living in this, you know, in science fiction is becoming

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Speaker 4: a reality and that's what's really interesting, and I think

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Speaker 4: we should just admit, Wow, this is really amazing and

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Speaker 4: we don't completely know.

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Speaker 2: Well, so, you know, turning away from sci fi and

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Speaker 2: projecting based on what you know, what's your current thinking

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Speaker 2: about the extent of the coming disruption to labor markets

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Speaker 2: and you worry about the potential kind of political ramifications

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Speaker 2: of dislocation and what that might do to the political

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Speaker 2: process in terms of fueling candidates that might take advantage

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Speaker 2: of that dissatisfaction.

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Speaker 4: I think the one I just got out of a

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Speaker 4: meeting with two hundred CEOs for the last four hours.

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Speaker 4: And you know what CEOs want is they want more margin,

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Speaker 4: they want more productivity, they want higher value customer relationships.

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Speaker 4: These are the three things that universally every CEO wants. Now,

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Speaker 4: you know, how are they going to get it?

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Speaker 3: Okay, what will it do for them?

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Speaker 4: Well, they're going to get it through this kind of

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Speaker 4: incredible AI technology. That's why we're feathering it into all

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Speaker 4: of our apps and our platform, So our Einstein product,

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Speaker 4: which already does a trillion AI transactions a week.

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Speaker 3: Both predictive and generitive.

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Speaker 4: Well, that technology it must augment our customers, employees and

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Speaker 4: their customers as well, so whether they're doing commerce or sales,

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Speaker 4: or service or marketing, whatever, augmentation of the human experience.

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Speaker 4: This is a tremendous opportunity that's at hand right now.

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Speaker 4: So that radiologist who's reading that scan can be there

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Speaker 4: going has a partner next to them, which is that

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Speaker 4: AI and that idea that we can be augmented or

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Speaker 4: that Gucci you know, service rep is now being augmented

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Speaker 4: by that AI. And that is what we're really seeing

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Speaker 4: as the opportunity in today's present moment, with the current

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Speaker 4: generation of AI, with the current technology, it's really about

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Speaker 4: human augmentation. We can do a lot to augment human

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Speaker 4: beings in these incredibly powerful new ways, and we should

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Speaker 4: focus on that ourselves. For our kids. We can give

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Speaker 4: them incredible, you know, tutors that are helping them as

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Speaker 4: long as the human remains in the loop. Because, as

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Speaker 4: we all know, these things lie pretty bad, or they

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Speaker 4: call them hallucinations to kind of taper it down. But

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Speaker 4: all of a sudden, I'm sure we've all had this

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Speaker 4: experience where you put some prompt in and all of

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Speaker 4: a sudden it's like, no, it's not we know it's

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Speaker 4: not right, and then we go, oh, that's weird, and

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Speaker 4: then we'll turn to our friend who works at one

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Speaker 4: of these companies, Oh yeah, it's a hallucination, like, wow,

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Speaker 4: it looks like a lie to me.

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Speaker 2: You do you worry about the impact this might have

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Speaker 2: on the democratic process As we heading into a year

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Speaker 2: with seventy seven elections around the world.

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Speaker 4: Well, I mean, I think I started worrying about that

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Speaker 4: when we saw what was happening with these social media companies.

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Speaker 4: Let's start there. That still has not been addressed. Isn't

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Speaker 4: that How many articles have you written about that? Do

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Speaker 4: I need to pull them all out their headlines? I mean,

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Speaker 4: the reality is is that that remains the number one issue.

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Speaker 4: And I think that that idea that that's kind of

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Speaker 4: out there that we need to address tech companies' core values.

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Speaker 4: What is really important to these tech companies and how

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Speaker 4: they operate is everybody's business. And you know, we can

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Speaker 4: see that also even with the AI companies. Hey, I

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Speaker 4: own Time, you know that, and Bloomberg and New York Times,

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Speaker 4: and we're all finding our intellectual property, your stories, your

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Speaker 4: work that Bloomberg paid for or Time paid for or

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Speaker 4: New York Times paid for surfacing in these results because

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Speaker 4: all the DAID training data has been stolen. That is

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Speaker 4: a pretty big thought that there's a commodity user interface.

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Speaker 4: We can see that because you can get your iPhone

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Speaker 4: or Google phone and go to the play Store or

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Speaker 4: the app store and download the open ai app or

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Speaker 4: download the Copilot app. Commodity UI on the front end.

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Speaker 4: In the middle, you have what's becoming, i think somewhat

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Speaker 4: highly commoditized large language models. So we can see that

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Speaker 4: because the open source models and even the best of

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Speaker 4: the proprietary models are pretty close. And then you have

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Speaker 4: this broad set of training data, which is kind of

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Speaker 4: the third tier of it, which has been just basically

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Speaker 4: ripped off.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so you probably didn't have time to negotiate with

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Speaker 2: Sam while he was on his way out, But what's

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Speaker 2: what's the fair.

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Speaker 1: Price for Times content?

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Speaker 4: Well, we're waiting for Bloomberg to actually complete their negotiations

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Speaker 4: and then we're going to leverage that point. I mean,

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Speaker 4: nobody really exactly knows, because this has all happened just

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Speaker 4: in a period of hours. You know, we saw that

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Speaker 4: Axel got a deal, and you know, we see New

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Speaker 4: York Times issuing, and I don't know what Bloomberg is doing,

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Speaker 4: and I don't even know really what Time is doing,

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Speaker 4: but I know that you know, if you're going to

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Speaker 4: use this data, I think that probably there's a pretty

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Speaker 4: great company to be built on a standardized set of

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Speaker 4: training data that lets all these companies play a fair,

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Speaker 4: fair game and let the content creators like yourself get

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Speaker 4: paid fairly for their work, and I think that bridge

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Speaker 4: has not yet been crossed, and that's a mistake by

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Speaker 4: the AI company.

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Speaker 3: It is you very easy to do.

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Speaker 2: Do you worry that the proliferation of these models could

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Speaker 2: further undermine the news business?

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Speaker 3: No, I think that you know what.

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Speaker 4: We just saw what happened, you know with the Arena

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Speaker 4: group right where they published a couple of AI articles

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Speaker 4: and the CEO basically got, you know, shot in the

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Speaker 4: street by the market. You know that said whoa, that

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Speaker 4: wasn't exactly right. And I'm sure I don't know if

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Speaker 4: you have this experience, but I have the experience. Well,

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Speaker 4: I'll even read an article written by an AI about

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Speaker 4: me and I go, WHOA, Yeah, I guess I'm actually

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Speaker 4: pretty good or that's a lot better than I even

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Speaker 4: remember that. So you know, there's a you can tell

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Speaker 4: the difference between and you've read the AI stories and

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Speaker 4: so have I between Hey, a first draft that then

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Speaker 4: you know is shaped and really worked on by a

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Speaker 4: professional writer like yourself and just an AI and it's

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Speaker 4: get shot into the network.

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Speaker 3: And we're still not.

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Speaker 4: At that point yet where you know that that AI

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Speaker 4: is ready to be unleashed, and I don't know exactly

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Speaker 4: how we're gonna, you know, be ready for that moment,

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Speaker 4: but it will be a moment that we all have

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Speaker 4: to think of.

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Speaker 2: I want to hit a couple more issues before we

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Speaker 2: run out of time. We had Szachi Nadella here this morning.

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Speaker 2: Microsoft Teams is competing with Salesforce and Slack in the

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Speaker 2: market payment place.

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Speaker 1: I know you guys have had some success.

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Speaker 2: In getting the EU to stop Microsoft from bundling Teams

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Speaker 2: together with its office Suite. You think Microsoft, Now I

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Speaker 2: haven't checked the market today, but perhaps the most valuable

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Speaker 2: company in the world, that there should be more attention

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Speaker 2: on Microsoft and its practices in terms of bundling software.

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Speaker 4: Well, this all happened way before we bought Slack, which

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Speaker 4: is that Microsoft, of course as a multi decade history

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Speaker 4: of bundling products and new initiatives into core products where

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Speaker 4: they have a monopoly to achieve market share new places.

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Speaker 4: And we all know those stories, the Netscape story, you know,

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Speaker 4: and many other stories.

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Speaker 3: And I think that there was.

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Speaker 4: A case that would has been made that the EU

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Speaker 4: is looking at that they did this also to the

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Speaker 4: Slack founders, and I think that's going.

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Speaker 3: To be up to the EU to decide.

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Speaker 4: They've obviously made some very aggressive statements, but I think, look,

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Speaker 4: it gets back to core values. You know, what kind

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Speaker 4: of company are you building, what are your values? How

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Speaker 4: are you operating?

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Speaker 3: Salesforce is now two and a half decades old.

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Speaker 4: You know, we've got seventy thousand employees where you know,

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Speaker 4: have given guidance that you know, we're looking to do

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Speaker 4: revenue in the mid thirties this year. It's a huge

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Speaker 4: software company, third largest software company, second largest in Japan.

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Speaker 4: And what I'm most proud of is the core values

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Speaker 4: that we've been able to maintain, which is our trust,

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Speaker 4: focus on trust at the number one point, customer success,

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Speaker 4: the level of innovation, are our importance of equality and

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Speaker 4: equity in how we operate our business, and also sustainable.

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Speaker 4: I think I'm out of valsing.

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Speaker 2: Okay, get you to unlock your inner Larry Ellison, does

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Speaker 2: Microsoft abuse it's market power?

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Speaker 4: Well, that's my mentor, as you know, And look, I

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Speaker 4: think this is Look, it's been.

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Speaker 3: Decided by the core. It's before that.

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Speaker 4: That has happened many other times, so you know, I

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Speaker 4: don't know if it's to happen again. Let's see what

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Speaker 4: the courts decide, and let's see we how the regulators decide.

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Speaker 4: But all the data, it's very clear. I mean, everybody

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Speaker 4: knows what the data is. And a lot of people

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Speaker 4: here probably have their own opinion. But I don't want

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Speaker 4: to come in and take the role of the regulator.

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Speaker 4: I don't think that's fair for me to take that.

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Speaker 2: Okay, yesterday in the US, Donald Trump won the Iowa

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Speaker 2: caucus and I just wanted to ask you, I asked

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Speaker 2: sat As.

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Speaker 1: Sam, and it's on my mind.

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Speaker 2: You know, what's at stake in this, in this monumental

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Speaker 2: election in the US. I know it's fashionable every four

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Speaker 2: years and say, this is the most important national.

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Speaker 1: Election in a lifetime.

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Speaker 2: Where's your head at right now as we look at

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Speaker 2: election in the US, seventy seven other national elections.

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Speaker 1: Are around the world.

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Speaker 2: What do you feel like is at stake for this

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Speaker 2: planet and maybe a little more provincially for Salesforce, for you,

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Speaker 2: for your family?

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Speaker 1: Well?

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Speaker 3: I think that for me.

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Speaker 4: You know, I've looked you been through this now so

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Speaker 4: many times and US the CEO of Salesforce that administrations change.

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Speaker 4: But getting back to my previous answer, my core values

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Speaker 4: don't change. The company's core values do not change. And

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Speaker 4: I think this is extremely important. Obviously, the US government

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Speaker 4: is a large customer of salesforce, and depending on who's

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Speaker 4: in office, it creates a whole stir with a different

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Speaker 4: part of our employee base. So that's just a reality.

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Speaker 4: What the reality is is that, hey, we are the

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Speaker 4: same company regardless of when that election is going to occur,

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Speaker 4: and regardless of who that president will be, and we

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Speaker 4: have to operate with a set of core values true

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Speaker 4: North know what we're doing nowhere're going and and operate

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Speaker 4: in that way. And I hope that we've been able

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Speaker 4: to do that for two and a half decades, not

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Speaker 4: that we haven't made mistakes. Every CEO needs forgiveness, and

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Speaker 4: every company needs forgiveness. Every reporter also needs forgiveness. But yes,

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Speaker 4: every company except you. Meant to say, but I think

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Speaker 4: that we have to realize that. You know, I don't

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Speaker 4: think you can put a COO in that box and

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Speaker 4: say and now what, because that's there's no answer. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Sorry, one more.

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Speaker 2: Have you been surprised at the level of pushbacks not

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Speaker 2: the right word by some voices in Silicon Valley against

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Speaker 2: DEI ESG.

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Speaker 1: It feels like a vocal tide that's rising.

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Speaker 2: Maybe I'm checking Twitter too often, but I know you're

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Speaker 2: just spenting too much some Yeah, no, I am, and

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Speaker 2: I'm trying to cut back, but you know, I think I.

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Speaker 3: Had to time or limit on myself.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, what what is going on?

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Speaker 2: And how are you reading the room right now in

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Speaker 2: terms of these kind of counter movements against diversity, against ESG.

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Speaker 4: You know, let me tell you how I look at it,

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Speaker 4: which is obviously I have lived this, lived it. And

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Speaker 4: should we pay women the same for what a man

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Speaker 4: gets paid? Let's start there. Should men and women be

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Speaker 4: paid the same for the same work?

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Speaker 3: Yes?

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Speaker 4: Or no?

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Speaker 3: Is it a debate? Still? Is it a question Harley?

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Speaker 1: For Elon and his tho.

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Speaker 4: Well, I actually don't know. I never had that conversation

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Speaker 4: with him. I don't know the answer actually for him,

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Speaker 4: but I know that in my own data set in

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Speaker 4: my company, when I looked at do we pay men

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Speaker 4: and women equally for equal work?

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Speaker 3: We did not.

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Speaker 4: And as we acquired companies, because we've acquired about sixty

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Speaker 4: companies over twenty five years, in all of those data sets,

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Speaker 4: there was this huge variation and it's like.

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Speaker 3: Really, it's twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 4: Can we not agree that we're going to pay men

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Speaker 4: and women equally for the same work. Is this not

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Speaker 4: something we can agree to because in the data it

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Speaker 4: says that we do not. And when we've made those

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Speaker 4: slight adjustments, all of a sudden in our own company,

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Speaker 4: it all of a sudden gets off again. So it's

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Speaker 4: an equity issue or an equality issue, right, It's pay equality,

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Speaker 4: we call it, right, And I think that that's a

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Speaker 4: really good place to start any debate or conversation. And

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Speaker 4: I do, by the way, because I'll have folks, not

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Speaker 4: just yourself, but other CEOs who want to take me

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Speaker 4: on and say, hey, what's your position on equity today,

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Speaker 4: or what's your position and on equality today? And say, look,

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Speaker 4: I cannot speak on all equality issues. I don't understand

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Speaker 4: them all myself. It's too complex.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 3: I'm just the CEO of a company.

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Speaker 4: But I do know that I have a lot of

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Speaker 4: incredible women in my company, and I think they deserve

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Speaker 4: to be paid the same as men.