WEBVTT - The Hardworking Husband, The Wicked Widow and The Alligator Alibi 0:00:01.240 --> 0:00:03.520 Falling in love is the best feeling in the world. 0:00:04.040 --> 0:00:07.560 You see stars, you feel giddy, But sometimes that makes 0:00:07.560 --> 0:00:13.000 you do crazy things, and sometimes that means murder. Just 0:00:13.119 --> 0:00:15.880 because the story starts out with once upon a Times 0:00:16.200 --> 0:00:20.600 doesn't mean it ends happily ever after. Welcome to Crazy 0:00:20.640 --> 0:00:23.920 and Love, a production of Katie Studios and I Heart Radio. 0:00:25.280 --> 0:00:29.320 Today's guests are true crime producer Chris Graves and Jason Newland. 0:00:30.440 --> 0:00:33.800 Jason is an investigator with the Leon County States Attorney's 0:00:33.840 --> 0:00:38.479 Office in Tallahassee, Florida. He was integral and ultimately solving 0:00:38.520 --> 0:00:42.800 this complex case episode twenty two, the Case of the 0:00:42.840 --> 0:00:48.000 hard working Husband, the wicked Widow, and the Alligator Alibi. 0:00:52.760 --> 0:00:55.960 Growing up, Mike Williams always had dreams, but not the 0:00:56.040 --> 0:01:00.120 kind most kids wish for. He didn't aspire to go 0:01:00.160 --> 0:01:03.800 to space or be a famous actor. Mike schools were 0:01:03.880 --> 0:01:07.600 much more grounded. He hoped for a stable career, a 0:01:07.600 --> 0:01:11.959 loving wife, and a beautiful home. Perhaps his rather unassuming 0:01:12.000 --> 0:01:16.280 wants stemmed from his humble beginnings. Mike's father was a 0:01:16.319 --> 0:01:20.920 greyhound bus driver. His mother worked at a daycare. The 0:01:20.959 --> 0:01:24.960 Williams family lived in a double wide trailer outside of Tallahassee, Florida. 0:01:26.000 --> 0:01:28.800 All the while Mr and Mrs Williams squirreled away money, 0:01:29.000 --> 0:01:31.080 hoping to save enough to help Mike and his brother 0:01:31.160 --> 0:01:35.440 with their educations. Throughout high school, mikeer and straight a's, 0:01:35.520 --> 0:01:38.240 played on the football team and worked after school at 0:01:38.240 --> 0:01:42.160 a grocery store. Through all his hard work, Mike did 0:01:42.200 --> 0:01:47.600 manage to find some time for girls. Entered Denise. Tall 0:01:47.640 --> 0:01:50.960 and blonde, Denise was a cheerleader, the perfect counter to 0:01:51.000 --> 0:01:54.520 Mike the football player. One night, after a winning game, 0:01:54.720 --> 0:01:58.200 Mike got off the courage to ask Denise out. Both 0:01:58.200 --> 0:02:01.120 were sporty and popular, and they were the envy of 0:02:01.160 --> 0:02:06.840 everyone in school. Mike also had a best friend, Brian Winchester. 0:02:08.240 --> 0:02:10.880 Like Mike, Brian played on the football team and had 0:02:10.880 --> 0:02:14.760 a serious girlfriend, Kathy. The two couples became a tight 0:02:14.800 --> 0:02:17.800 foursome which continued into adulthood as they all stayed in 0:02:17.800 --> 0:02:22.440 the Tallahassee area. In Mike and Denise got married just 0:02:22.480 --> 0:02:26.120 a few months after Brian and Cathy. Five years later, 0:02:26.200 --> 0:02:29.160 Mike and Denise welcomed a daughter. Mike worked as a 0:02:29.200 --> 0:02:33.120 property appraiser while Denise stayed home. Mike loved his wife. 0:02:33.680 --> 0:02:37.200 He loved his life. At thirty one, he couldn't help 0:02:37.200 --> 0:02:40.880 but feel proud. All of his dreams had seemingly come true. 0:02:44.400 --> 0:02:48.960 Here's Chris. Mike worked really hard to maintain his dream 0:02:49.000 --> 0:02:51.520 life as a property appraiser. You were, you raped in 0:02:51.600 --> 0:02:54.919 about two grand a year, which quite a lot of money, 0:02:54.960 --> 0:02:58.160 but that money came with a cost. To earn that money, 0:02:58.240 --> 0:03:00.240 Mike felt he needed to work and soon now hours 0:03:00.280 --> 0:03:02.000 and I think he actually probably just loved to work. 0:03:02.080 --> 0:03:04.399 He would go into the office before dawn, he'd work 0:03:04.400 --> 0:03:07.240 all day, come home, he'd make dinner, and then once 0:03:07.520 --> 0:03:11.080 Denise and his child were asleep, he would go to 0:03:11.080 --> 0:03:14.320 work more. It was so bad that his boss had 0:03:14.320 --> 0:03:17.120 to take away the office keys so that Mike wouldn't 0:03:17.160 --> 0:03:20.760 come in on the weekends. Apparently, and while Denise liked 0:03:20.760 --> 0:03:24.280 her comfortable lifestyle and not surprisingly, took a toll on 0:03:24.360 --> 0:03:27.640 their relationship. So, Jason, what can you tell me about Mike? 0:03:28.120 --> 0:03:30.960 Everything you said is one hunts in accurate. He worked 0:03:30.960 --> 0:03:34.359 too hard, but he also loved Denise to know in 0:03:34.720 --> 0:03:36.360 on those days where he would be at work on 0:03:36.400 --> 0:03:38.960 a regular day, the middle of the day, Denise would 0:03:39.120 --> 0:03:41.680 run out of gas. She needed gas. She called the office, 0:03:41.840 --> 0:03:45.040 Michael Stoppoli to him to help fulfill up the gas. 0:03:45.280 --> 0:03:49.160 Everybody in that office talked about their relationship and how 0:03:49.440 --> 0:03:52.960 he would beend over backwards to keep perhap. Did Denise 0:03:53.000 --> 0:03:55.840 ever expressed to Mike that he was working too much 0:03:55.960 --> 0:04:00.680 in her viewpoint? Did hear some rumors throughout the investigation 0:04:00.840 --> 0:04:04.600 from everybody that knew both sides that his work damaged 0:04:04.640 --> 0:04:07.000 the relationship as much as it helped provide for it 0:04:07.280 --> 0:04:09.880 and not being home as a young cop, I wanted 0:04:09.880 --> 0:04:12.120 to work. I wanted to work because I wanted to promote, 0:04:12.120 --> 0:04:13.800 and I wanted to move up in this career and 0:04:13.840 --> 0:04:17.320 it was fun. Mike's parents worked to provide for the kids, 0:04:17.480 --> 0:04:19.320 and Mike was going to do the same thing. He 0:04:19.400 --> 0:04:21.839 was going to provide for her, and provide for Annesley, 0:04:22.040 --> 0:04:24.800 or provide for the children. She was working to stay 0:04:24.839 --> 0:04:27.120 at home mom. She didn't have to work because he 0:04:27.160 --> 0:04:29.960 was so successful. I truly don't believe he felt like 0:04:30.000 --> 0:04:31.920 he was doing wrong, And I don't think she ever 0:04:31.960 --> 0:04:34.800 conveyed to him, Hey, I need you here, I'd rather 0:04:34.839 --> 0:04:40.640 you be home. On December six, two thousand, Mike and 0:04:40.680 --> 0:04:45.080 Denise were planning on celebrating their six wedding anniversary. They're 0:04:45.120 --> 0:04:47.679 going to enjoy a weekend away in the small fishing 0:04:47.680 --> 0:04:52.280 town of Appalachicola, about ninety minutes from their home. Mike 0:04:52.320 --> 0:04:55.040 had a lot to look forward to. He and Denisa 0:04:55.120 --> 0:04:57.719 talked about starting to try for baby number two on 0:04:57.760 --> 0:05:02.560 the trip, something Mike was or four. That morning, Mike 0:05:02.600 --> 0:05:05.560 wanted to go on a quick duck hunting expedition, which 0:05:05.560 --> 0:05:09.200 had become his favorite pastime. He figured he would have 0:05:09.240 --> 0:05:11.320 time to hit the water hunt for a bit, and 0:05:11.320 --> 0:05:14.920 then make it back for their romantic getaway. Mike left 0:05:14.960 --> 0:05:17.679 at dawn, telling Denise he'd be back in a few hours, 0:05:18.640 --> 0:05:22.719 but by noon there was no sign of him. Nervous, 0:05:22.800 --> 0:05:26.279 Denise called Mike's best friend, Brian. She asked if he 0:05:26.279 --> 0:05:29.239 could go and check on Mike's hunting spot. Of course, 0:05:29.240 --> 0:05:31.359 he wanted to help, and so Brian and his father 0:05:31.480 --> 0:05:34.400 drove about an hour to Lake Seminole, which is where 0:05:34.440 --> 0:05:38.040 Mike always hunted. On their way to the lake, Brian 0:05:38.080 --> 0:05:40.880 and his father noticed that local law enforcement was out 0:05:40.920 --> 0:05:45.039 looking for Mike. When the pair arrived, they immediately joined 0:05:45.040 --> 0:05:50.200 the search quickly. Mike's truck was located in its usual spot, 0:05:51.400 --> 0:05:55.039 Shortly after, a helicopter found Mike's boat drifting in the lake. 0:05:56.360 --> 0:05:59.279 His shotgun was sitting undisturbed in the hole, but there 0:05:59.320 --> 0:06:03.719 was no sign of like, here's Chris Jason, what do 0:06:03.839 --> 0:06:07.680 you know about what happened immediately after Mike went missing? 0:06:08.200 --> 0:06:11.360 So here's where my career actually takes an interesting path 0:06:11.400 --> 0:06:14.600 with this case. I started with the Fishing Wildlife Commission 0:06:14.680 --> 0:06:16.279 in two thousand and two, so when I was in 0:06:16.320 --> 0:06:19.400 the academy, we had the instructors roll through, and the 0:06:19.440 --> 0:06:22.800 first responder on this case, Auten Renewed, was one of 0:06:22.839 --> 0:06:25.360 my instructors in the academy. The case was less than 0:06:25.560 --> 0:06:28.880 eighteen months old when we started the academy, and he 0:06:29.240 --> 0:06:32.000 talked about this case, so I knew about the case 0:06:32.080 --> 0:06:35.760 back nineteen years ago, shortly after it happened. But in 0:06:35.760 --> 0:06:39.560 a situation like this, they responded to a missing duck. 0:06:40.200 --> 0:06:43.839 I happened to respond to those myself later in my career. 0:06:44.520 --> 0:06:48.479 Man fell overboard. It's cold, You're gonna search and you 0:06:48.480 --> 0:06:50.640 hope you find them alive. You're gonna search for a 0:06:50.680 --> 0:06:53.560 couple of days, and then at some point you know 0:06:53.640 --> 0:06:57.120 it's cold, and when it's cold, it takes people a 0:06:57.160 --> 0:07:00.320 little bit longer to surface after they drowned and when 0:07:00.320 --> 0:07:03.160 it's warm. So in these situations that used a couple 0:07:03.200 --> 0:07:06.320 of weeks, everybody talked about might be in an avid 0:07:06.440 --> 0:07:10.280 duck hunter and abbot outdoors man and understanding the water. 0:07:10.760 --> 0:07:13.440 This was his little special place to go hunt. Yeah, 0:07:13.640 --> 0:07:16.320 some people can survive. We have ten shows about it. Now, 0:07:16.600 --> 0:07:19.160 that's what everybody was hoping was happening at this time. 0:07:19.320 --> 0:07:22.360 Ten days after he's gone missing, they find his hat 0:07:22.400 --> 0:07:24.400 floating on the water, which is about two weeks after. 0:07:24.440 --> 0:07:26.480 Like you were saying, you would hope that you'd find 0:07:26.480 --> 0:07:28.800 his body, but in this case, they just found his hat. 0:07:29.000 --> 0:07:31.800 It was assumed at first that Mike had drowned in 0:07:31.840 --> 0:07:34.360 the lake. You know, it's cold, he might have fallen, 0:07:35.120 --> 0:07:37.920 maybe he couldn't get himself back into the boat. The 0:07:38.040 --> 0:07:40.679 area of the lake Mike was last seen was about 0:07:40.800 --> 0:07:44.239 six to eight feet deep. But Mike was wearing waiting boots, 0:07:44.560 --> 0:07:47.560 so the fear was that maybe when he fell in 0:07:47.600 --> 0:07:51.160 the water, his boots filled up. Waiters and waiting boots 0:07:51.160 --> 0:07:53.960 they're like misconception as to what they actually are, so 0:07:54.440 --> 0:07:56.960 they're almost like a full overall. They go all the 0:07:57.000 --> 0:07:58.680 way up above the waist to your chest, and then 0:07:58.680 --> 0:08:03.520 they'll snap across your shoulder like overalls. They initially suction 0:08:03.560 --> 0:08:05.600 cup two. When you get in the water, they just 0:08:05.680 --> 0:08:08.080 they just grab hold of you and keep the water out. 0:08:08.440 --> 0:08:10.120 But if you get too far in the water, they'll 0:08:10.120 --> 0:08:12.080 pressed over the top of it, and then you start 0:08:12.120 --> 0:08:14.160 to fill you up and there's no coming out of 0:08:14.240 --> 0:08:17.200 it because the suction effect is the same trying to 0:08:17.240 --> 0:08:18.760 pull them off, because it is to put them on 0:08:19.480 --> 0:08:21.960 and especially under the water. And so that's a duck 0:08:22.000 --> 0:08:24.840 hunter's worst nightmares to fall over in their waiters because 0:08:25.160 --> 0:08:28.080 you fill up even a lack chack. That was a 0:08:28.160 --> 0:08:30.520 fear of everybody's. They thought that's what might have happened 0:08:30.520 --> 0:08:34.559 to Mica. They did so f WC there a Wildlife 0:08:34.600 --> 0:08:38.040 Enforcement agents investigating crimes and homicides. It's not in port. 0:08:38.720 --> 0:08:41.360 They weren't looking for a missing boater. You don't find 0:08:41.400 --> 0:08:44.400 them immediately, and your helicopter doesn't see, you know, something 0:08:44.480 --> 0:08:47.160 suspicious when you kind of just call it a day, 0:08:47.640 --> 0:08:50.000 come back out when the sunshine comes up tomorrow. I've 0:08:50.000 --> 0:08:53.000 been looking enough flying the helicopters and locate subjects and 0:08:53.080 --> 0:08:55.120 situations like this. And you can find them in the 0:08:55.120 --> 0:08:58.400 air and if they're not there, something is suspicious. And 0:08:58.480 --> 0:09:01.320 this water was six eight deep in certain places, but 0:09:01.360 --> 0:09:03.839 in other places it was one to two feet or 0:09:03.840 --> 0:09:06.040 there was stumps that just at the edge of the surface. 0:09:06.120 --> 0:09:08.200 You know, to the free entrance. Do you hold out hope, 0:09:08.360 --> 0:09:10.880 but after a while you have to change course. You 0:09:10.920 --> 0:09:13.199 call an f ANDW Fishing Wildlife, it's the Florida Fish 0:09:13.240 --> 0:09:17.199 and Wildlife Conservation Commission. They were the initial law enforcement 0:09:17.559 --> 0:09:20.560 unit that responded to Mike. It wasn't like a homicide 0:09:20.640 --> 0:09:23.720 unit from the police department or anything. There was no 0:09:23.800 --> 0:09:26.880 homicide unit that responded. This was merely a missing person, 0:09:27.120 --> 0:09:31.160 a missing voter. And most agencies, particularly in the county 0:09:31.200 --> 0:09:33.640 that this one occurred in in Jackson County, their sheriff's 0:09:33.679 --> 0:09:36.720 offices were small and they don't have a lot of water, 0:09:37.000 --> 0:09:39.600 so they don't have a lot of water resources fish 0:09:39.600 --> 0:09:42.600 and wildlife. That's what we did. We had every piece 0:09:42.640 --> 0:09:44.920 of equipment who think they needed for a water search 0:09:44.960 --> 0:09:49.079 and rescue water mission, whatever it may be, to include helicopters. 0:09:49.120 --> 0:09:52.360 In this North Florida region, Leon Counties one of the 0:09:52.440 --> 0:09:56.880 few agencies small shaff office that actually has helicopters outside 0:09:56.880 --> 0:09:59.920 of a state lone agents. Okay, so two weeks general, 0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:02.800 your body would surface, but a body doesn't in this case, 0:10:03.040 --> 0:10:05.200 what are you thinking? I mean, this isn't normal, right, 0:10:05.400 --> 0:10:08.760 when a body goes down, it doesn't move. Revert cases 0:10:08.800 --> 0:10:10.839 where they're in the river and the body goes down 0:10:11.160 --> 0:10:14.520 and you find it within feet of where they're drowning, 0:10:14.559 --> 0:10:18.079 and they don't move, and that's why you have a boat. 0:10:18.280 --> 0:10:21.200 It maybe drifted, maybe the wind blew it, but in 0:10:21.240 --> 0:10:24.800 this situation, you would have expected something to show up 0:10:25.440 --> 0:10:27.760 or at least see it by helicopter. After two to 0:10:27.840 --> 0:10:30.599 three weeks, something should be visible by them. So this 0:10:30.760 --> 0:10:33.960 is gator infested water? Is big gators from that area. 0:10:34.400 --> 0:10:36.400 Maybe that's what happened. They got hungry and took them 0:10:36.440 --> 0:10:39.360 because gators too, they eat when it's warm. That day 0:10:39.440 --> 0:10:42.360 Mike and then went hunting was warm that day the 0:10:42.360 --> 0:10:46.480 search and rescue started. You don't know, So the prevailing 0:10:46.520 --> 0:10:49.400 theory after the body didn't show up was that he 0:10:49.480 --> 0:10:52.000 might have been eaten by an alligator. In the interviews 0:10:52.000 --> 0:10:53.880 that we did on this case, I think I kind 0:10:53.920 --> 0:10:55.680 of figured out where it started, and I do believe 0:10:55.679 --> 0:10:58.200 it started at the law enforcement level. The reason they 0:10:58.240 --> 0:11:00.880 couldn't find Mike was that he was consumed by an 0:11:00.880 --> 0:11:04.080 allogy totally feasible by the size the alligators in that lake. 0:11:04.400 --> 0:11:07.680 There musters, there's record breakers that come up in the 0:11:07.760 --> 0:11:11.400 lakes and rivers in that general area. The alligator theory 0:11:11.840 --> 0:11:15.240 just spread and continue to spread, and I think some 0:11:15.400 --> 0:11:18.520 others started to go a little relief that Okay, we 0:11:18.640 --> 0:11:20.920 got a story, we're gonna stick to it. It colored 0:11:20.960 --> 0:11:24.160 the investigation to probably for quite a while. Yeah, they 0:11:24.160 --> 0:11:27.280 put a damper on any type of investigation. Even when 0:11:27.280 --> 0:11:30.120 you talk to experts, they will tell you that alligators 0:11:30.160 --> 0:11:33.840 don't generally eat when it's cold. What they will as 0:11:33.920 --> 0:11:36.960 law enforcement in northern Florida is the theory that involves 0:11:36.960 --> 0:11:41.920 an alligator far fetched. Alligators are involved in a lot 0:11:41.960 --> 0:11:47.240 of cases in Florida. General in North Florida don't have 0:11:47.360 --> 0:11:49.760 a hold of it. Do you have plenty of alligators 0:11:49.840 --> 0:11:51.679 up here, But I don't know if the interaction with 0:11:51.760 --> 0:11:55.160 them is different or what. Generally the interaction humans have 0:11:55.240 --> 0:11:59.200 with alligators ends up in a limnus or a bite. 0:11:59.320 --> 0:12:02.040 If you don't know, we see the whole body soon. 0:12:02.520 --> 0:12:06.760 What kind of decision goes into when a search could 0:12:06.760 --> 0:12:10.400 be continued or scaled back. From a law enforcement standpoint, 0:12:10.920 --> 0:12:15.920 A lot of it depends on, you know, conditions, preparations, survivability. 0:12:16.520 --> 0:12:18.800 What's the length of time that you would expect somebody 0:12:18.800 --> 0:12:22.760 to survive to survive in those situations this one, I 0:12:22.840 --> 0:12:27.000 actually think the search and rescue went on a little 0:12:27.200 --> 0:12:29.880 longer than most would. It was up to three weeks 0:12:29.920 --> 0:12:33.480 of the rescue mission before it was scaled back slightly 0:12:33.720 --> 0:12:36.760 to a search and recovery mission. What are you feeling 0:12:36.760 --> 0:12:39.280 when you hear a story like this? Face value? This 0:12:39.360 --> 0:12:42.520 is a tragedy. This guy went hunting, fell out, and 0:12:43.040 --> 0:12:46.880 didn't make it well. Denise cut a low profile during 0:12:46.880 --> 0:12:49.240 the search. When she heard it was called off, she 0:12:49.360 --> 0:12:52.840 feared for the worst. Denise planned a memorial service where 0:12:52.840 --> 0:12:56.520 Mike's closest friends and family gathered to say goodbye. It 0:12:56.600 --> 0:12:59.280 seemed like Denise was hoping to close this tragic chapter 0:12:59.360 --> 0:13:03.000 of her life. However, there was one person who could 0:13:03.080 --> 0:13:08.280 not accept that Micah drowned his brother, Cheryl. Cheryl knew 0:13:08.320 --> 0:13:10.480 her son Mike was an avid hunter who knew how 0:13:10.480 --> 0:13:13.160 to take care of himself out in the welchness, and 0:13:13.240 --> 0:13:16.440 even if he had drowned, where was his body? Cheryl wondered. 0:13:17.120 --> 0:13:21.320 She started a grassroots campaign, handing out flyers, paying for 0:13:21.400 --> 0:13:28.320 billboards and TV ads, all demanding answers, here's Jason. Cheryl 0:13:28.400 --> 0:13:31.760 was relentless. She did not stop for pursuit of closure. 0:13:32.040 --> 0:13:35.440 In this case, Cheryl, she knew her son. I have 0:13:35.600 --> 0:13:38.600 to tell the story at this point because it fits best. 0:13:39.080 --> 0:13:41.080 When Mike first got into duck hunt, he was about 0:13:41.080 --> 0:13:43.960 fourteen years old, and they had a family friend who 0:13:44.040 --> 0:13:46.720 took him out duck hunt for the first time, and 0:13:47.040 --> 0:13:50.160 it was immediate that Mike was booked. Their family friend 0:13:50.240 --> 0:13:53.520 knew that, alright, fourteen, I'm gonna be taking with me 0:13:53.600 --> 0:13:55.079 for a while, but I'm going to teach him a 0:13:55.080 --> 0:13:56.960 few of the safety measures that he needs to know. 0:13:58.000 --> 0:13:59.959 One of the things that he taught him the family 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:03.000 had a pool in their backyard. Mike and Cheryl and 0:14:03.080 --> 0:14:06.640 this guy actually spent time with him learning how to 0:14:06.800 --> 0:14:08.720 get out of waiters if you fell on the water 0:14:09.360 --> 0:14:11.920 in the pool, and he said, by the end of 0:14:12.240 --> 0:14:14.600 about two days of working on it, he knew how 0:14:14.679 --> 0:14:18.040 to shed them down to a certain part of your 0:14:18.040 --> 0:14:20.120 body where you could at least get your hands, go 0:14:20.280 --> 0:14:21.720 and get float and you get back to the top 0:14:21.760 --> 0:14:23.480 at least catch a breath, because he taught him you 0:14:23.480 --> 0:14:26.040 can get the waiters off if you're completely under the water, 0:14:26.520 --> 0:14:28.080 but if you're on the top of the water trying 0:14:28.080 --> 0:14:30.800 to shed him and panicking, they don't come off. Cheryl 0:14:30.880 --> 0:14:32.560 knew he knew that because she watched him do that, 0:14:32.640 --> 0:14:34.520 and it was something she required him to do before. 0:14:34.560 --> 0:14:37.000 He was going to keep duckcotting when he was fourteen, fifteen, 0:14:37.080 --> 0:14:39.640 sixteen years old, and then eventually he went, you know, 0:14:39.720 --> 0:14:44.400 started duck hunting by himself, and for sixteen seventeen years 0:14:44.600 --> 0:14:47.520 he duck hunted numerous times and never had any issues. 0:14:47.840 --> 0:14:51.320 She knew his anniversary was coming up. She knew he 0:14:52.200 --> 0:14:54.920 was talking about having you know, more of a family, 0:14:55.720 --> 0:14:59.600 and he was just happy living in good life. That 0:14:59.800 --> 0:15:02.200 he ran duck hunting. He was gonna come home, he 0:15:02.320 --> 0:15:04.440 was gonna because he had somewhere to be that afternoon 0:15:04.520 --> 0:15:08.200 in athletic Ole, and it just did not sit well 0:15:08.240 --> 0:15:11.440 with them when he didn't show up, When we didn't 0:15:11.440 --> 0:15:13.880 find the body of the searches. She always thought she's 0:15:13.880 --> 0:15:16.280 gonna find it. A love that was always her home, 0:15:16.400 --> 0:15:19.400 which granted it would be all of ours. And I 0:15:19.440 --> 0:15:22.640 think deep down she knew the worst, but she always 0:15:22.680 --> 0:15:25.120 wished she was going to find him, and she wasn't 0:15:25.120 --> 0:15:28.040 going to stop until she did. For years, she would 0:15:28.080 --> 0:15:31.000 walk beside of Thomas Billbroad, one of our busiest streets 0:15:31.040 --> 0:15:34.080 in Tallahassee, and she would hold signs up on the anniversary. 0:15:34.200 --> 0:15:36.720 She would put newspaper ads and where is he? Have 0:15:36.800 --> 0:15:41.640 you seen? And never let the town forget. She never stopped. 0:15:41.840 --> 0:15:44.040 She wrote letters to the governor. I think it was 0:15:44.120 --> 0:15:46.640 every day of like a five year period. She wrote 0:15:46.640 --> 0:15:49.440 almost eighteen hundred letters until the case was opened as 0:15:49.440 --> 0:15:52.760 a criminal investigation by the failing And we have always 0:15:53.120 --> 0:15:55.120 she was going to get her point across, and she did. 0:15:55.480 --> 0:15:57.280 She's just gonna be a champion for her son, and 0:15:57.360 --> 0:16:00.360 listened to her intuition. And so Dese was of wants 0:16:00.400 --> 0:16:02.840 to stay at home mom, And now how she's supporting 0:16:03.040 --> 0:16:06.200 herself without this hard working husband. Well, it turns out 0:16:06.360 --> 0:16:10.200 that nineteen days after Mike disappeared, Denise petition to have 0:16:10.440 --> 0:16:14.720 him declared debt so she could collect his life insurance 0:16:14.760 --> 0:16:19.000 policy to the tune of one point seven five million dollars. 0:16:19.120 --> 0:16:22.760 That's quite a sum. Mike was smart and thoughtful family man, 0:16:22.920 --> 0:16:25.160 so he had set up a policy with his friends, 0:16:25.440 --> 0:16:29.160 Brian's firm that would ensure that his wife and daughter 0:16:29.320 --> 0:16:34.000 would be taken care of, So Jason, people don't take 0:16:34.080 --> 0:16:37.520 kindly to life insurance policies in these types of situations. 0:16:37.560 --> 0:16:41.440 How was the community feeling about Denise at this point? 0:16:41.960 --> 0:16:45.080 Those who knew them closely, and I will say this 0:16:45.280 --> 0:16:48.680 to include her sister's brother in law, I thought something 0:16:48.760 --> 0:16:51.960 was up. They didn't like the way that things went 0:16:52.160 --> 0:16:54.920 the day he went missing. And then when she files 0:16:54.960 --> 0:16:59.280 for the player who deceased nineteen days later, there's still 0:16:59.280 --> 0:17:02.240 people certain and she's folently the flare in the seat, 0:17:02.520 --> 0:17:05.000 and then Alexa and then point seven five millions of 0:17:05.280 --> 0:17:10.000 life insurance policies. Red flags went up everywhere the life insurance. 0:17:10.320 --> 0:17:13.720 I think it triggered a lot of people to flit 0:17:13.880 --> 0:17:19.600 from poor Michael missing to something happening. We're going to 0:17:19.600 --> 0:17:22.080 take a break. We'll be back in just a moment. 0:17:36.240 --> 0:17:40.240 Is there anything specific detectives look at when a large 0:17:40.320 --> 0:17:45.320 life insurance policy payout is involved. Yes, we do. Firstly, 0:17:45.359 --> 0:17:48.639 you know when was it created, how much was it for, 0:17:49.280 --> 0:17:52.439 was it changed, was it renewed, was it adjusted in 0:17:52.480 --> 0:17:56.520 any way? Who the recipients are? Was the recipient added? 0:17:56.640 --> 0:17:59.840 Was a recipient removed? In this situation? Who created it? 0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:02.879 You look at all of it? How often are life 0:18:02.880 --> 0:18:07.399 insurance policies involved in cases that you were investigating? I 0:18:07.440 --> 0:18:10.600 actually have one right now that is a triple homicide 0:18:10.600 --> 0:18:15.840 investigation and a life insurance policies involvement. And it's eerily 0:18:15.920 --> 0:18:18.800 similar in the time framework when it was created. Who 0:18:18.920 --> 0:18:22.600 was created for? And we created still pending case. We 0:18:22.680 --> 0:18:25.200 have a really good idea, but you definitely go there. 0:18:26.600 --> 0:18:30.040 In two thousand and four, after Mike's mother, Cheryl's continued 0:18:30.119 --> 0:18:34.560 please the case was reopened. The biggest thing police found 0:18:34.600 --> 0:18:37.200 this time around was that the leading theory about how 0:18:37.280 --> 0:18:40.800 m My died did not add up. It turns out 0:18:40.960 --> 0:18:43.840 there was no way alligators could have been the culprint 0:18:44.960 --> 0:18:48.440 in December when Mike disappeared. With the temperatures in the fifties, 0:18:48.480 --> 0:18:52.440 alligators were hibernating. They would not come out to feed 0:18:52.520 --> 0:18:57.439 until temperatures hit around eighty eight degrees. This case is 0:18:57.440 --> 0:19:00.359 a perfect scenario of this is Florida. It was about 0:19:00.520 --> 0:19:03.960 seventy seventy eight. I don't know. It was hot the 0:19:04.080 --> 0:19:08.600 day before this case for the data, and then a 0:19:08.680 --> 0:19:11.720 storm rolled through and it was in the thirties less 0:19:11.720 --> 0:19:14.320 than twenty four hours later. It's Florida with a ring 0:19:14.400 --> 0:19:16.000 on one side of the road tracts and not on 0:19:16.080 --> 0:19:18.840 the other. The weather, you know, determining when wildlife are 0:19:18.840 --> 0:19:21.200 gonna eat. It's hard to predict too, because none of 0:19:21.200 --> 0:19:24.480 it's predictable down here. But also I think Cheryl did 0:19:24.560 --> 0:19:27.320 talk to like an expert right who kind of came 0:19:27.359 --> 0:19:30.040 in with that theory. Cheryl talked to everybody she could 0:19:30.160 --> 0:19:33.120 think we talked to. She truly felt that the story 0:19:33.600 --> 0:19:37.320 of alligators was called to her to appease her. This 0:19:37.400 --> 0:19:40.000 is the best answer we can give. Sorry, I don't 0:19:40.119 --> 0:19:41.920 have any more, but the best answer I can give 0:19:41.920 --> 0:19:44.320 you is probably an any and she would get her 0:19:44.320 --> 0:19:48.440 own reserve. She found somebody that said alligators aren't gonna 0:19:48.480 --> 0:19:51.600 come feed in thirty two degree weather. But the case 0:19:51.760 --> 0:19:54.680 was reopened. Correct, That's when you came in right in 0:19:54.760 --> 0:19:58.080 about twenty and is when HI came right out. So 0:19:58.119 --> 0:20:01.320 the cases being passed onto the next guy trying to 0:20:01.359 --> 0:20:06.720 find answers. Denise Mike's former wife is moving on with 0:20:06.960 --> 0:20:11.080 his best friend, Brian. Five years after his disappearance, Denise 0:20:11.080 --> 0:20:14.480 and Brian got married. Brian even moved in to what 0:20:14.720 --> 0:20:17.680 was once his best friend's house. While the rumor mill 0:20:18.080 --> 0:20:21.399 was an overdrive, the police didn't have a body, so 0:20:21.480 --> 0:20:24.959 the investigation was an uphill battle and the case was 0:20:25.000 --> 0:20:27.800 closed again when they got married. The room mills that 0:20:27.960 --> 0:20:31.240 overdrive as an understatement. I think even some of the 0:20:31.760 --> 0:20:36.399 true believers that believe Mike this was an accident change 0:20:36.400 --> 0:20:38.960 their opinion. I think there was maybe one or two 0:20:39.080 --> 0:20:43.119 people that still believed this was an accident. And Brian 0:20:43.160 --> 0:20:47.080 and Denise got married, there was a big ship. In 0:20:47.160 --> 0:20:50.880 two thousand and seven, per his family's request, Denise returned 0:20:50.920 --> 0:20:54.960 all of Mike's guns to them. However, Mike's brother noticed 0:20:55.000 --> 0:20:58.679 that one gun was missing. Through a court order, Mike's 0:20:58.680 --> 0:21:02.199 family was able to retrieve that gun from Denise. The 0:21:02.280 --> 0:21:05.480 looming question was why she had kept it Around the 0:21:05.520 --> 0:21:09.160 same time, the case was reopened again, but this time 0:21:09.160 --> 0:21:13.520 police found something that they unlike that supposed alligator could 0:21:13.560 --> 0:21:17.679 finally sink their teeth into. Everybody started looking at the 0:21:17.680 --> 0:21:21.400 insurance policies. Something didn't match up. It wasn't a whole 0:21:21.400 --> 0:21:23.960 lot that we could work with, but it was something 0:21:24.160 --> 0:21:27.040 is off here. Why do we have an insurance that 0:21:27.160 --> 0:21:30.960 was ready to inspire came? It was made a lot 0:21:31.000 --> 0:21:36.639 of suspicious activity on one particular insurance in the end 0:21:36.720 --> 0:21:39.680 or one point seven five millions divided amongst the week 0:21:39.760 --> 0:21:43.639 different policies. It just looks suspicious. I assume when you 0:21:44.200 --> 0:21:47.560 went to look at who helped Mike with that insurance 0:21:47.560 --> 0:21:51.840 policy that brand alarm bills too? Right, Yeah, you can 0:21:51.880 --> 0:21:55.439 go tryan interview Brian. Good luck. Everybody has the right 0:21:55.440 --> 0:21:58.480 to romain silent this guy. We had an ability to 0:21:58.560 --> 0:22:01.280 do so. Brian, his best friend who is now married 0:22:01.320 --> 0:22:04.240 to his widow, is the one who helped with the 0:22:04.240 --> 0:22:08.199 life insurance policy, right he is. There was also an 0:22:08.280 --> 0:22:12.000 unearthed nine one one call from before the disappearance. Someone 0:22:12.040 --> 0:22:15.159 reported what they thought was an abandoned car in a 0:22:15.320 --> 0:22:18.960 church parking lot. Police looked up the plate and the 0:22:19.040 --> 0:22:22.439 car belonged to Brian. They called his wife and she 0:22:22.480 --> 0:22:25.760 said Brian was out of the state that week for work. 0:22:26.160 --> 0:22:28.480 When cops arrived to the church, the car was gone, 0:22:29.040 --> 0:22:31.800 and it was believed that Brian and Denise were hooking 0:22:31.880 --> 0:22:33.720 up in that car. Do you have anything to say 0:22:33.720 --> 0:22:36.960 about that or no? Nineteen years later I called that 0:22:37.040 --> 0:22:39.760