1 00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:03,560 Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of Internet Hate Machine. I am 2 00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:07,080 Speaker 1: your host, Bridget Todd. I am enjoined with my lovely producer, Sophie. Hey, Sophie, 3 00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:10,440 Speaker 1: what's up, Hey, Bridget. How's it going? It is going well, 4 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:13,840 Speaker 1: and I'm so, so so excited to be joined by Francesco. 5 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:17,800 Speaker 1: If you're in TV correspondent, funny Lady, host of the 6 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:21,640 Speaker 1: Situation Pod, the Twitteration Room on the Young Turk's News 7 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:24,800 Speaker 1: broke on a J Plus, and New Mama Francesco. Thank 8 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 1: you so much for being here. I'm so excited. Anytime, 9 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:31,040 Speaker 1: oh my god, talk to me about something else other 10 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:37,680 Speaker 1: than nursing and sleep habits, just get me out of 11 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 1: that headspace. And I realized we might delve into something 12 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:43,479 Speaker 1: far worse, and I'll be rushing back to want to 13 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:47,600 Speaker 1: talk about nursing and all and spit up habits and 14 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:50,720 Speaker 1: all that crap, all the all the things that babies 15 00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:54,360 Speaker 1: do exactly. We might be talking maybe about babies I 16 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:57,800 Speaker 1: don't I don't know, or big babies. Yeah there there are, 17 00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:01,160 Speaker 1: so there are some grown man babies and the story. Yeah, 18 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:03,920 Speaker 1: I mean that's what the show is about, right, just 19 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:07,840 Speaker 1: people being massive babies on the Internet and speaking of 20 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:10,160 Speaker 1: people being massive babies on the Internet. I have to 21 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:12,959 Speaker 1: call out this tweet that you had that had me rolling, 22 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:17,560 Speaker 1: uh elon must tweeted Twitter feels increasingly alive and you've 23 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:22,319 Speaker 1: replied increasingly alive now that death threats are back. Absolutely. 24 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:24,880 Speaker 1: I mean the real joke, I think is that it's 25 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:28,680 Speaker 1: alive because we're all dunking on him just endlessly and 26 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 1: he's just trying to tweet through his entire failure. But yeah, 27 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:34,160 Speaker 1: it's like, you know, the actual truth of it, and 28 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:37,039 Speaker 1: this is something you speak to is that we're just 29 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:41,400 Speaker 1: it's alive. He's the equivalent of alive is because now 30 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:44,160 Speaker 1: no one is censored when they're trying to docks people 31 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 1: or harass them. Yeah, now an open season for hate 32 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 1: speech docs saying death threats, all the stuff that you 33 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:55,560 Speaker 1: want to see you when you log into Twitter dot com. 34 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 1: That actually was something that I was surprised at. You know, 35 00:01:58,240 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 1: I know we're not going to necessarily go into the 36 00:01:59,840 --> 00:02:03,520 Speaker 1: whole old debacle, but that in order to get people 37 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:05,280 Speaker 1: to get on stay on your platform, you it has 38 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:07,640 Speaker 1: to be a place people want to be. And I 39 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:09,639 Speaker 1: was reading some analysis and I was like, oh, yeah, 40 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:13,080 Speaker 1: as much as I think something like Instagram makes me 41 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 1: obviously like it's a perpetual fomo and I feel terrible 42 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:18,360 Speaker 1: about myself in different ways. It is also still a 43 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 1: place I want to be, And Ellen's got to make 44 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 1: Twitter a place people want to be who aren't just 45 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:30,080 Speaker 1: white nationalists. Yeah, and I was reading about how only 46 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:33,480 Speaker 1: a small percentage of power users on the platform, like 47 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:36,799 Speaker 1: people who tweet regularly, like those are the folks who 48 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:40,080 Speaker 1: really drive engagement, and so it does seem kind of 49 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 1: like Ellen is kind of his his first order of 50 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 1: business is kind of attacking those people and making sure 51 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 1: that they feel like Twitter is not a hospitable platform 52 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 1: for them to show up and like it's not like 53 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:52,640 Speaker 1: any of us are getting paid to tweet. So after 54 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:54,440 Speaker 1: a while, it's like, why am I going to continue 55 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 1: to show up here? Right? It's it's basically just too 56 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:02,600 Speaker 1: again make fun of now the new owner. But that's it. 57 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:04,959 Speaker 1: He needs to sweeten the pot for them and getting 58 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 1: folks to pay eight dollars a month for that, Like 59 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:12,120 Speaker 1: that's not that's not it. It should be. Ah God, 60 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:14,640 Speaker 1: my friend of mine suggested something, and I just have 61 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:19,160 Speaker 1: to put this out there. But monetize Twitter by paying 62 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:26,080 Speaker 1: to d m women paying Elan would be he would 63 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:30,960 Speaker 1: be making so much money off Twitter overnight, right or 64 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 1: or even like lower lower the bar, not even, but 65 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:36,280 Speaker 1: like to get so that you can see if they 66 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 1: read it or not sure exactly these different tiers, I 67 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:42,839 Speaker 1: mean even replying to anybody, you know, the whole thing. 68 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:45,680 Speaker 1: But it's like, oh God, if you want to troll 69 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:48,840 Speaker 1: this person in their d M, you gotta pay fifty 70 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 1: dollars if there's gonna be like, you know, if you're 71 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:54,760 Speaker 1: gonna say something about the way they look, you know, 72 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 1: a hundred dollars if you're gonna throw in like a 73 00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 1: toots or a nobody says toots anymore. You know how 74 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 1: the Internet and trolls are all just like you know, 75 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 1: men in their eighties. Yeah, I love you, I love 76 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:13,240 Speaker 1: the tweet. That's the voice that I that I read 77 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:21,200 Speaker 1: all m Andrew Dice, Clay voice, Hickory Dickory Duck. Yeah 78 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:26,040 Speaker 1: you look better without anyone under the age of thirty 79 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:28,479 Speaker 1: is like, what are they saying, Andrew Dice? Who I 80 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 1: don't These are not current, These are not topical references. 81 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:36,360 Speaker 1: But you know your point about you know, paying to harass, 82 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:40,040 Speaker 1: paying to bother people actually does fit really clearly into 83 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:42,560 Speaker 1: what I want to talk about today, And so far 84 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 1: on the podcast, we've talked about some examples of black 85 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:47,679 Speaker 1: women and women of color who have been the target 86 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:51,280 Speaker 1: of not so fun things on social media platforms. We've 87 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:53,839 Speaker 1: talked about dongle Gate with a fear Richards, the end 88 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:57,680 Speaker 1: Father's Day campaign on Twitter, and then coordinated attacks on 89 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:02,080 Speaker 1: SNL actor Leslie Jones, And as horrific as these things are, 90 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 1: it's kind of easy to think of them as sort 91 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:08,560 Speaker 1: of isolated incidents or things just happening on Twitter with 92 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 1: no real context playing out in the you know, the 93 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:13,440 Speaker 1: real the I r L world, like the real world, 94 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 1: And so I wanted to spend a little bit of 95 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 1: time kind of connecting those dots on why all this 96 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:21,520 Speaker 1: matters and why it matters beyond the folks who are 97 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 1: being targeted. And since we just had mid term elections, 98 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 1: I think taking a look at some of recent elections 99 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 1: and the experiences of elected officials will provide a really 100 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 1: good example for the real world consequences of having a 101 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:36,480 Speaker 1: social media landscape ready and willing to amplify racist, sexist 102 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:39,040 Speaker 1: attacks on black women and women of color. Is this 103 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:43,279 Speaker 1: something that you've experienced as like a visible person on Twitter. Yes, 104 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:46,760 Speaker 1: and no, I will say that. Um I what I 105 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:50,359 Speaker 1: think that the online hate has done for me is 106 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 1: make me, um invisibilize myself deliberately, So say less, be 107 00:05:56,920 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 1: very very careful. And again, I'm a comic, you know, 108 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:01,840 Speaker 1: and I and I am a pundit. I like to speak. 109 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:04,640 Speaker 1: I love doing podcasts, I love doing you know, my 110 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:07,720 Speaker 1: live show, the Bituation Room, all that. But it's when 111 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:10,279 Speaker 1: it comes to just the world of Twitter, I am 112 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:12,440 Speaker 1: much more on my p's and q's, and not in 113 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:15,040 Speaker 1: a good way. So it's so ironic. We are being 114 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:18,920 Speaker 1: trolled by you know, generally dudes and white dudes and 115 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:22,840 Speaker 1: whatever cis het you keep adding to it, who are 116 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:25,839 Speaker 1: constantly saying that they are being silenced, when in fact, 117 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 1: what they the ecosystem they create, actually just silences women, 118 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:36,120 Speaker 1: people of color, marginalized folks, anyone who feels like they 119 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 1: are already targeted by systemic oppression. That's just it's sort 120 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 1: of a self imposed censorship. So and I hate that 121 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 1: about so. So No, I have not been deliberately targeted. 122 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 1: But also I don't stick at my neck out that much. 123 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 1: And I think that's a that's not good, you know, 124 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:57,480 Speaker 1: but but yeah, I've been, you know, in multiple I 125 00:06:57,520 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 1: think it's also because I'm not like I'm next and 126 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:03,160 Speaker 1: people are like, I don't know how to troll you. 127 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:09,360 Speaker 1: What epithode do I use? Are exactly? Are you Chinese? 128 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:12,320 Speaker 1: Are you Italian? Are you Latina? I don't know, damn it, 129 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 1: I'm gonna google it. Uh my Wikipedia pages all fucked 130 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:17,320 Speaker 1: up to It's like I don't know if we can swear, 131 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 1: but I am my bad um. So it's just like 132 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:23,720 Speaker 1: they I think my Wikipedia page says that I'm like 133 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 1: from Argentina, but I'm not. The point is it's funny 134 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:30,640 Speaker 1: when you're not discernibly something. So people don't know how 135 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 1: to troll. I will say this to Year and I 136 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:35,560 Speaker 1: know you did a whole episode on Leslie Jones thing. 137 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 1: I was at the r n C in t St. Milo, Napolis, 138 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:44,040 Speaker 1: was going live for Bright Bart and my producers. The 139 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:47,200 Speaker 1: people at a J Plus were like, yo, this is 140 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:50,160 Speaker 1: the day after that Leslie Leslie Jones was I think 141 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 1: left Twitter was being trolled. Milow started it. They go, yo, 142 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 1: you should like say something to him, do something. So 143 00:07:57,040 --> 00:08:01,360 Speaker 1: on air we did our own little like rolling of him, 144 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:04,040 Speaker 1: and I was like, you know, does it does all 145 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:05,960 Speaker 1: this make you feel better that your mom never hugged 146 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 1: you as a child, you know, just like being raised 147 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 1: by the legends of Zelda like and I was something 148 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 1: about like I said, I think the first thing I 149 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 1: said to him was like, it's funny that you hate 150 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 1: black people because your heart is black, is what I said. 151 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:22,200 Speaker 1: That's that's good. So yeah, so that was the man 152 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:26,320 Speaker 1: stunned to speak. No he called me. He turns around, goes, 153 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 1: wouldn't mean nasty, you know, he goes, what a mean nasty, 154 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 1: skinny lesbian you are? And I was like, me's guinea things? 155 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:38,720 Speaker 1: Oh my god. So I was also at that same 156 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 1: r n C. And I remember I was this is 157 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:43,840 Speaker 1: a whole long story, but I was there as part 158 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:47,200 Speaker 1: of a group who was meant to be getting like 159 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 1: like writing a piece about Milo. And I remember him 160 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:54,559 Speaker 1: walking around like the press area and what a like 161 00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:56,559 Speaker 1: you could just you ever see somebody who you can 162 00:08:56,600 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 1: tell wants to have their presence be something that everybody 163 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:04,040 Speaker 1: is talking about. And everybody was working, so nobody was like, 164 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:06,160 Speaker 1: oh my god, there's Milo. Everybody was like, oh, what 165 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:09,160 Speaker 1: is like this person just came in they clearly want 166 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 1: a scene, and everybody just went back to their their 167 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 1: laptops and it was kind of this, like I remember 168 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:17,560 Speaker 1: just feeling like this is pathetic, Like this this is 169 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:19,560 Speaker 1: like reminds me of when I was like when I 170 00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:21,960 Speaker 1: first got my driver's license and I would like get 171 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:24,679 Speaker 1: in my car and drive by the school playing music 172 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 1: loud with sunglasses on and be like, I hope they 173 00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:31,600 Speaker 1: see me. I just felt I just felt very sad. Yeah, exactly. No, Yeah, 174 00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:36,240 Speaker 1: he definitely like plays. He has a little boom box 175 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 1: next to him and like plays. You know, I have 176 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:40,720 Speaker 1: some kind of trumpet entrance, like has a little smoke 177 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:44,319 Speaker 1: machine he wants that's in his mind, Like it goes 178 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 1: off when he walks in a room. You know what 179 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:51,080 Speaker 1: I'm saying. My brain is on new Mom. I'm sorry, um, 180 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:53,600 Speaker 1: but yeah, yeah, I know that he's a sad, sad 181 00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:57,600 Speaker 1: man and uh, I think got what he deserved. But 182 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 1: that's I know you went into that. Yeah, I mean 183 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:03,199 Speaker 1: he talking about him is actually a great segue into 184 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:05,320 Speaker 1: the idea that I think in so many of the 185 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 1: incidents that we have discussed, particularly around like Milo and 186 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:13,520 Speaker 1: Leslie Jones, it's this idea that It really shows, in 187 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:16,720 Speaker 1: my opinion, the way that a sort of disregard and 188 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 1: distrust of women, particularly women of color and black women, 189 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 1: it's kind of baked into our experience of being on 190 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:24,680 Speaker 1: social media platforms. And if you've ever seen a right 191 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 1: wing figure attack of black woman who was basically just 192 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:30,240 Speaker 1: minding her business like Leslie Jones was, and thought what's 193 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:32,280 Speaker 1: going on? You know, when you see a right wing 194 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:35,800 Speaker 1: figure randomly attack Lizzo or how like Trump would randomly 195 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 1: attack uh yeah, Signore April Ryan like right like women 196 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:41,959 Speaker 1: of color, always you'd be thinking, like, why are they 197 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:45,040 Speaker 1: doing this? Well, I would argue it's because it is 198 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 1: a tried and true engagement strategy. And when you apply 199 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:51,560 Speaker 1: that to social media people who run platforms, they're not 200 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:54,800 Speaker 1: really interested in sort of de incentivizing that because it's 201 00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 1: a successful way to generate engagement, which means, you know, 202 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 1: more profit for them. And so basically I think that 203 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:04,080 Speaker 1: attacking women of color is always going to be a 204 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 1: way to get to like fire up your base and 205 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:09,600 Speaker 1: get engagement, and platforms are not interested in stopping this 206 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:13,559 Speaker 1: or de incentivizing it because they are in on the grift. Yeah, 207 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:17,680 Speaker 1: well that's sure. I mean it's amazing. Once again, this 208 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:20,080 Speaker 1: this is the right. It loves to accuse the Left 209 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 1: of being triggered by something, and they the people you're naming, 210 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 1: the reason they triggered. They are the ones triggering the 211 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:33,840 Speaker 1: right merely by their existence, the idea that black women 212 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:39,520 Speaker 1: are excelling in journalism, in music, in something that otherwise 213 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 1: they wouldn't give a shit about. They don't know who 214 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:45,560 Speaker 1: Lizzo is. Ben Shapiro doesn't know Lizzo is. But then 215 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:50,240 Speaker 1: suddenly she's playing you know whoever the fox flute Jefferson? 216 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:53,680 Speaker 1: Was it Jefferson? It was Jefferson. Yeah, just like so 217 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:56,960 Speaker 1: Jefferson's flute um, which of course we all know she 218 00:11:56,960 --> 00:12:00,360 Speaker 1: should have smashed into a million pieces. Uh, and that's what. No, 219 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:03,480 Speaker 1: she played it amazingly, And you're just like, this is 220 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 1: what I mean by identity politics still matter. I mean, 221 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:07,160 Speaker 1: this is why I think a lot of us still 222 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:09,800 Speaker 1: say it, because they's like, literally by their identity, by fote, 223 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:14,840 Speaker 1: by black women just doing them. Suddenly this entire yeah, 224 00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 1: machinery of algorithms and grift and money making is actually 225 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:22,480 Speaker 1: just triggered and is set off, you know, and just 226 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:26,199 Speaker 1: keeps on spinning and spinning and spinning and victimizing, I 227 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:29,080 Speaker 1: would say, but honestly, like, these are also badass people 228 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:31,120 Speaker 1: who I think it takes a lot more to bring 229 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:33,679 Speaker 1: them down. But yeah, victimizing usually women of color and 230 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 1: black women specifically. Absolutely. My favorite tweet that I saw 231 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:40,960 Speaker 1: about the Lizzo situation was when everybody was like, oh, 232 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:43,720 Speaker 1: she played that flute. Lizzo should dig up the bones 233 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:49,760 Speaker 1: of Jefferson and play his ribs like a xylophone. So 234 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:52,439 Speaker 1: you're you're exactly right, And I've seen the exact same thing. 235 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:55,440 Speaker 1: Disinformation researcher and the author of the great new book 236 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:58,280 Speaker 1: Black Skinheads, and person who is a lot smarter than 237 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 1: me on these issues, Brandy dex Raclar. She explained it 238 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:02,840 Speaker 1: very well in an interview with Janet Burns. She says, 239 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:06,680 Speaker 1: social media as a sphere, because of its theatrical nature, 240 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:08,880 Speaker 1: is where you will see the most profound attacks, and 241 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:11,040 Speaker 1: on Twitter some of the most vicious attacks that are 242 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:13,680 Speaker 1: being directed at black women, black leaders, and black activists. 243 00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:16,960 Speaker 1: It ends up getting laughed about on the now defunctor 244 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:19,840 Speaker 1: Riley Factor and other shows. There's this freedom to attacked 245 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:22,800 Speaker 1: and repeated validation of it, and everywhere we go we 246 00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 1: see corporate or government gatekeepers who declined to intervene. So 247 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:29,600 Speaker 1: I completely agree with her point. We have a media 248 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:32,720 Speaker 1: landscape where attacking women of color and black women isn't 249 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:35,680 Speaker 1: just okay, it's incentivized, and I think this is key. 250 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:39,680 Speaker 1: When platforms allow racist, sexist attacks on black women and 251 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:43,280 Speaker 1: women of color and do nothing, it normalizes this behavior 252 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 1: and it doesn't just say that it's okay, but it 253 00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:47,800 Speaker 1: says like this is just the cost of being a 254 00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:50,760 Speaker 1: visible black woman online. And even if it starts on 255 00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 1: platforms like Twitter, I think it creates the conditions that 256 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:56,280 Speaker 1: normalize the same kind of abuse to happen more broadly 257 00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:59,280 Speaker 1: out into the world, and also create a pathway for escalation, 258 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:02,280 Speaker 1: Like if people don't do anything when you harass a 259 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:04,520 Speaker 1: black woman or a woman of color online, you know, 260 00:14:04,679 --> 00:14:07,400 Speaker 1: bad actors will watch that response and be like, Okay, well, 261 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:10,360 Speaker 1: I will reasonably conclude that I could take that behavior 262 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:14,320 Speaker 1: offline too, And that's kind of really sad, because you know, 263 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:16,520 Speaker 1: when we're talking about women and black women and women 264 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:20,080 Speaker 1: of color who don't always get the support that we should, 265 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:23,680 Speaker 1: people are not totally incorrect and assuming that they can 266 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 1: harass these women and escalate that harassment from the Internet 267 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:30,400 Speaker 1: to the real world, and that people aren't going to 268 00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 1: do anything because they're kind of right, and a lot 269 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:36,560 Speaker 1: of instances, not a lot is done. Yeah, I mean 270 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:41,600 Speaker 1: it's it's seen as like I think black women specifically 271 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:45,480 Speaker 1: because of white supremacy, um, and the ways that like 272 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:53,640 Speaker 1: your your identities are immediately politicized not by your not 273 00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 1: by you, but by the by white supremacy and the 274 00:14:57,200 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 1: function of it and how it works. And so it's 275 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 1: like like I'm saying, folks mining their own business, women 276 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:05,400 Speaker 1: just doing themselves is suddenly seen as like how dare 277 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 1: you attack me? And you're like, what are you talking about? 278 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:10,960 Speaker 1: No one's attacking you. But it's and again this is 279 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:13,200 Speaker 1: like some folks can go through the world and their 280 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 1: identities are not automatically politicized. They're not automatically seen as 281 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:20,120 Speaker 1: like oh, it's like, um, I can't remember her name, 282 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 1: but there was this Asian American reporter who got a 283 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:26,560 Speaker 1: phone call after she like talked about you know, what 284 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:30,200 Speaker 1: she eats at Thanksgiving, right, and I think she's Korean, 285 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:33,440 Speaker 1: and she was like someone called her and was like 286 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:37,480 Speaker 1: your reporter was very Asian, you know, like I was 287 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:41,440 Speaker 1: offended by how Asian your reporter was even just because 288 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 1: they mentioned that they don't eat turkey on things. Remember 289 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:50,200 Speaker 1: that it would just the existence of her specific cultural thing. Yeah, 290 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:54,120 Speaker 1: the mere existence your mirror. I am victimized by your 291 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 1: mere existence. Like God, white fragility is so so brittle 292 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:04,040 Speaker 1: and exactly what it is, Michelle Lee. I believe, yes, 293 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:08,120 Speaker 1: now selling very Asian merch and I love it. Um 294 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:11,960 Speaker 1: but but so yeah, and and of course anything that 295 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 1: makes folks money is gonna That's why, I mean, I 296 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 1: know that your whole show just is going to end 297 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 1: in we need to nationalize and break up big tech. 298 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:29,240 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean I think it's that's a whole yeah, yes, yes, um. 299 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:30,800 Speaker 1: But you know, when you're talking about sort of this 300 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 1: idea of women and people of color and black folks 301 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:37,520 Speaker 1: just sort of being inherently politicized, this is something that 302 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:40,200 Speaker 1: I really want to pull out because I talk a 303 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 1: lot about things like misinformation, disinformation, malinformation, all of that. 304 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:47,000 Speaker 1: It's like my day job is like researching that. And 305 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:49,640 Speaker 1: I think that what often gets lost are the ways 306 00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:53,520 Speaker 1: that these kinds of things are so often identity based, right, 307 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:57,960 Speaker 1: and so ideas about you know, someone who is Chinese 308 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 1: American being foreign or you know not, you know not 309 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 1: doesn't belong here, or ideas about you know, black women 310 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:08,399 Speaker 1: being angry or incompetent. I think that we so often 311 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:13,160 Speaker 1: see identity based inaccurate information, and it's so much harder 312 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:16,040 Speaker 1: to pull out and talk about, as opposed to disinformation 313 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:20,159 Speaker 1: and misinformation around things like COVID or vaccines, where it's like, yeah, 314 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 1: most reasonable people are like, like, there's a baseline understanding 315 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:26,840 Speaker 1: of you know, oh, this is inaccurate information. But when 316 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 1: it comes to identity, I think it's a little bit 317 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 1: harder to actually pull out and identify and talk about 318 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 1: because I don't know, talking about race and culture and 319 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:39,960 Speaker 1: identity can be so fraught and difficult for our society. 320 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:42,439 Speaker 1: I guess yeah, And you don't want to be overly 321 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 1: reductive in when you when you combat this, when you 322 00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:48,600 Speaker 1: combat hate as well, it's the same thing, I think, 323 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 1: and where we don't have to get into it all 324 00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:53,360 Speaker 1: but around our conversations about Kanye's anti semitism and how 325 00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:56,919 Speaker 1: to like properly and how to adequately combat it in 326 00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:59,440 Speaker 1: order to shut it down, But how much do you engage? 327 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:03,320 Speaker 1: And that it's sticky because again, I think it's super 328 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:06,040 Speaker 1: reductive to be like all black people are this, all 329 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:09,639 Speaker 1: Jews are that, all Chinese Americans like just like it. 330 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:13,880 Speaker 1: You how do we push back against stereotypes while also 331 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:19,120 Speaker 1: understanding the like the heterogene when what's the word? Like 332 00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:27,000 Speaker 1: just how um not homogeneous? Heterogeneous? I don't have words anymore. Um, 333 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:29,600 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna a SMR every time I don't know 334 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:32,840 Speaker 1: my vote? Yeah, just how how like how much difference 335 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:36,119 Speaker 1: there is in all of these communities exactly? And I 336 00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:39,200 Speaker 1: think it's one of the reasons why talking about it 337 00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:43,200 Speaker 1: is so difficult, because it's like, how do you make 338 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:46,240 Speaker 1: room for the fact that no no group as a monolith. 339 00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:50,560 Speaker 1: You know, we there are nuances and like like we're 340 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:53,439 Speaker 1: a gradient, like there's nuances in our communities, but we 341 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:55,960 Speaker 1: still need to I believe it's still like very important 342 00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:59,320 Speaker 1: to have a clear united front against things like anti Semitism. 343 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:01,760 Speaker 1: And I mean this is like a tangent, but like 344 00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 1: with Kanye West, it troubles me that he can't see 345 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:08,359 Speaker 1: that like when someone is being and this is my opinion, 346 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 1: when someone is being anti Semitic or you know, anti Asian, whatever, 347 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:15,920 Speaker 1: it is a hot skipping away from anti blackness. That 348 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:18,120 Speaker 1: ship is all linked and that train is never late. 349 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:20,040 Speaker 1: And so like, if you, as a black person, are 350 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:23,320 Speaker 1: engaging explicitly an anti semitism, do you not realize that 351 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:25,040 Speaker 1: you're creating the conditions for that ship to come back 352 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:27,600 Speaker 1: around on us. And like, all of our oppression is linked. 353 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:31,200 Speaker 1: I believe firmly that our liberation is linked. And you 354 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:33,720 Speaker 1: just got like when I see him doing that, I'm like, 355 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:35,879 Speaker 1: can you not see the way that you are setting 356 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:38,960 Speaker 1: yourself up to later be knocked down? People are gonna 357 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:41,320 Speaker 1: be like, oh, we love that he's being anti Semitic. Good, 358 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:44,800 Speaker 1: good good, And you know that's just giving folks more 359 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:47,080 Speaker 1: thought or to slip in anti blackness. So like, what 360 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:49,639 Speaker 1: the funk are you doing? Yes, oh my god, go 361 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:52,399 Speaker 1: off and and like final, just like last thing on this, 362 00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:57,720 Speaker 1: they're super linked. The whole Sorrows myth right Sorrows is 363 00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:01,760 Speaker 1: a billionaire who is fill in the blank um helping 364 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:08,600 Speaker 1: BLM defund the police, creating thugs out of inner city 365 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:12,280 Speaker 1: black children. Like literally it's always linked. It's it's Jews 366 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:17,600 Speaker 1: run stuff. And the running stuff inherently means they're flooding 367 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:22,120 Speaker 1: our country with immigrants and they basically um help black 368 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:25,760 Speaker 1: people vote and or like flooding our like voters electoral 369 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:28,040 Speaker 1: system with like black votes, like Google straight up that 370 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:31,320 Speaker 1: they're the orchestrators of the people of color. So it's 371 00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:37,240 Speaker 1: like so layered. Yeah, but it's again, I feel like 372 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:40,960 Speaker 1: we have this, particularly on social media, we have this 373 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 1: climate that loves to flatten things out and strip things 374 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:47,600 Speaker 1: of nuance and context. And I don't think that we 375 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:50,240 Speaker 1: have I don't think that our platforms have the range 376 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:53,679 Speaker 1: to allow for discussing things in the way they actually 377 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:56,639 Speaker 1: need to be discussed, right Like social media platforms are 378 00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:05,359 Speaker 1: incentivize to amplify the most insidiary inflammatory nuance, lacking bs, 379 00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:08,600 Speaker 1: extremist stuff, and so I don't think our platforms are 380 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:11,479 Speaker 1: largest communication platforms are really equipped for the level of 381 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:14,280 Speaker 1: like conversation that we need to be having right now, 382 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:18,560 Speaker 1: and not at all. It is like, say something reductive, 383 00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:24,240 Speaker 1: say it unapologetically and take out any kind of maybe 384 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:29,479 Speaker 1: could be leading to perhaps you know, and just end 385 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:32,760 Speaker 1: it with the period and you're done, and then you'll 386 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:36,679 Speaker 1: get a million retweets and that's yeah, that's what wins. 387 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:40,639 Speaker 1: People make money off of that, People get deals, and 388 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:42,359 Speaker 1: I don't care which side of the spectrum you're on. 389 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:46,800 Speaker 1: Just no room for nuanced, forgive no one, take no prisoners, 390 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:51,320 Speaker 1: cancel everybody, and or troll everybody, and you will win 391 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:54,080 Speaker 1: as social media. It's so funny that you put it 392 00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:56,560 Speaker 1: this way. I miss, I might going off the rails here. 393 00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:59,080 Speaker 1: I'm sorry. We can yeah, but you know we have 394 00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:03,359 Speaker 1: to talk about women in elections, female candidates. Correct, But 395 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:05,040 Speaker 1: I just gonna say one thing like this is like 396 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:07,159 Speaker 1: one of the reasons why I find myself showing up 397 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:10,359 Speaker 1: less and less on social media platforms because I think 398 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:14,040 Speaker 1: that you're exactly right. It's not even definitely extremists. Right 399 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:17,240 Speaker 1: wing extremists are like the worst, are like the biggest 400 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:19,360 Speaker 1: bad actors, but it certainly they are not the only 401 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:21,160 Speaker 1: ones doing it. And I think even when it's not 402 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:24,520 Speaker 1: something that is like politically charged, like I don't know 403 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:26,280 Speaker 1: if you saw that woman who was tweeting about like, 404 00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:28,520 Speaker 1: oh I sure love sitting in my garden and everybody 405 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:31,800 Speaker 1: was like boo, we hate who usedupid bitch? Like we 406 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:34,600 Speaker 1: are incentivized to be our worst selves, and our worst 407 00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:37,360 Speaker 1: selves are what these algorithms amplify, and that has been 408 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:39,879 Speaker 1: determined by study after a study like, it's not your 409 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:46,880 Speaker 1: imagination when you bring hatefulness extremism. You know, two platforms, 410 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:50,400 Speaker 1: platforms a boost that when you show up with nuance 411 00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:53,040 Speaker 1: or thoughtfulness, they do not. And so it's a real 412 00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:57,040 Speaker 1: word tremity, like, hey, I really love my garden. Now 413 00:22:57,600 --> 00:22:59,680 Speaker 1: funk your garden? Oh my god, how much do you 414 00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:02,679 Speaker 1: want to it? How much water are you wasting in 415 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:07,200 Speaker 1: that beautiful garden of yours? You know that's it's always 416 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:12,639 Speaker 1: you cannot be positive, sable, it's insufferable. And if you 417 00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:15,120 Speaker 1: are positive on like you know you do you take 418 00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:19,800 Speaker 1: a cute selfie on Instagram, haters be on following you. 419 00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:22,879 Speaker 1: Let me just be real, when you post out, you 420 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:27,320 Speaker 1: post something you look cute unfollowed. Yeah, it's funny because 421 00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:32,399 Speaker 1: like I I think we're all just like really miserable 422 00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:35,280 Speaker 1: and we're showing up with a lot of misery on 423 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:39,240 Speaker 1: exactly exactly. And I've actually even heard people be like, yeah, 424 00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:41,399 Speaker 1: don't bring your joy to social media. People will just 425 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:44,480 Speaker 1: find a way to shoot on it. Agreed to take 426 00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:54,000 Speaker 1: that somewhere else, like your family. So let's talk about 427 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:57,160 Speaker 1: a little bit about what we've been seeing in terms 428 00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:00,080 Speaker 1: of attacks on women of color and black women and 429 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:02,480 Speaker 1: when it comes to elections and hold collected office. So 430 00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:04,800 Speaker 1: I want to get into a little bit of research first. 431 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 1: I'll breathe through this, but there's actually quite a big 432 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:09,800 Speaker 1: body of work as of late around some of what 433 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:12,200 Speaker 1: we'll be talking about today. So in this the Internationals 434 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:14,880 Speaker 1: did a study that looked at abusive messages hurled at 435 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:17,560 Speaker 1: a multi racial group of members of parliament, and they 436 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:20,720 Speaker 1: found that Black Asian and minority ethnic women members of 437 00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 1: parliament are impacted far more than their white colleagues. The 438 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:26,960 Speaker 1: twenty black Asian and minority ethnic members of Parliament that 439 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:30,199 Speaker 1: they that they looked at received almost half of the 440 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:33,560 Speaker 1: abusive tweets, despite being almost eight times as many white 441 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:36,280 Speaker 1: members of parliament. In the study, uh they also examined 442 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:39,600 Speaker 1: abusive tweets targeted women journalists and politicians in both the 443 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:41,640 Speaker 1: United States and the United Kingdom and found that black 444 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:44,200 Speaker 1: women were eighty four percent more likely than white women 445 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:47,840 Speaker 1: to be mentioned in abusive tweets. Over in the United States, 446 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:51,399 Speaker 1: a report from the Institute for Strategic Dialogue found that 447 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:54,280 Speaker 1: women of color candidates are targeted by the right on 448 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:57,439 Speaker 1: social media at alarming rates. Abusive messages counted for more 449 00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:00,119 Speaker 1: than fifteen percent of those directed at every female all 450 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:03,840 Speaker 1: maker analyze, compared to around five to ten of male candidates. 451 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:06,720 Speaker 1: Women of color are particularly likely to be targeted. Rep 452 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:11,120 Speaker 1: il Han Omar received the highest proportion of abusive messages 453 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:14,040 Speaker 1: of all candidates, and AOC received the highest ratio of 454 00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:18,200 Speaker 1: abusive comments on Facebook. And this is like a specific 455 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:21,320 Speaker 1: thing to women when they looked at male UH elected 456 00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:23,520 Speaker 1: officials who are people of colors, So like Corey Booker 457 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,840 Speaker 1: or Tim Scott, who are both black, they received similar 458 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:29,919 Speaker 1: levels of abuse to their white male candidates. However, the 459 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:32,400 Speaker 1: attacks against them were more likely to be about race. 460 00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:34,960 Speaker 1: When you look at the way that men are targeted 461 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:38,680 Speaker 1: for you know, problematic or you know negative tweets and 462 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:42,640 Speaker 1: negative content, those tweets are much more likely to focus 463 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:45,440 Speaker 1: on policy, right, So, like, I don't like your position 464 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:47,400 Speaker 1: on this, I don't like your position on that. When 465 00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:49,840 Speaker 1: it comes to women, it's much more exactly to be 466 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:54,199 Speaker 1: about their appearance or their general incompetence. Female Democrats received 467 00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:57,600 Speaker 1: ten times more abusive comments and their male counterparts on Facebook, 468 00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:00,640 Speaker 1: and Republican women got more than twice as many abusive 469 00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:03,919 Speaker 1: comments and Republican men and then lastly, the Center for 470 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:08,600 Speaker 1: Democracy and Technology looked at congressional candidates in the US 471 00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:10,560 Speaker 1: and found that women of color candidates were the most 472 00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:12,920 Speaker 1: ectly to be targeted with the posts that combined miss 473 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:15,840 Speaker 1: and disinformation and abuse. Women of color were at least 474 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 1: five times more likely than other candidates to be targeted 475 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:21,760 Speaker 1: with tweets related to their identity and focus specifically on 476 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:24,639 Speaker 1: their gender and their race. UM, I have to ask you, 477 00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:28,960 Speaker 1: does any of this surprise you? No, not at all, 478 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:33,359 Speaker 1: not not in the slightest. And this is why I 479 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:39,000 Speaker 1: always say I think it's important to harass Republican men 480 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:41,240 Speaker 1: based on their looks. I just you know, I I 481 00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:43,159 Speaker 1: don't know. I don't. I can't solve any of this. 482 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:48,040 Speaker 1: I can't solve sexism, patriarchy, white supremacy overnight. But I 483 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:51,840 Speaker 1: can troll Matt Gates for his five head or troll 484 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,320 Speaker 1: Mitch McConnell for looking like an uncircumcised chode, you know, 485 00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:58,119 Speaker 1: like I can. That's what I think we need to 486 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:00,960 Speaker 1: do more of, and that's how I want to level 487 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:05,119 Speaker 1: the playing field. I completely agree. The proudest moment I 488 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:06,919 Speaker 1: had in the last couple of months was that video 489 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:10,560 Speaker 1: of Ted Cruise at a Yankees game and then the 490 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:13,920 Speaker 1: crowd just screaming at him. Remember when Trump called your 491 00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:18,080 Speaker 1: wife ugly fuck it? I was like, Oh, that's the 492 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:23,359 Speaker 1: America that I'm proud of, and she no, But I think, 493 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:26,439 Speaker 1: you know, like, yeah, Ted Cruise, I mean this is 494 00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:29,400 Speaker 1: I used to get in trouble for when I had 495 00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:31,159 Speaker 1: like a news comedy show on a J Plus. They 496 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:33,600 Speaker 1: were like, you should criticize Ted Cruise more on his look, 497 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 1: I mean, sorry, more in his substance, And I was like, yeah, 498 00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:39,879 Speaker 1: but he does look like he's holding a bunch of 499 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:44,080 Speaker 1: like little hatchlings of like baby salamanders in his mouth 500 00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:45,439 Speaker 1: at all times, you know what I mean. He's just 501 00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:48,840 Speaker 1: he looks like you know, and he himself looks like 502 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:51,880 Speaker 1: a bat. Like He's just I need to be able 503 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:54,000 Speaker 1: to say that in the same breath that I'm like yes, 504 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:56,960 Speaker 1: And he also demonizes immigrants and wants to you know, 505 00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:00,200 Speaker 1: privatize medicare all those kinds of things. Two things can 506 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:02,920 Speaker 1: be true at once, But I always catch myself because 507 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:05,040 Speaker 1: of course I like to make fun of Marjorie Tayler Green, 508 00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:11,359 Speaker 1: you know, um, but am I equally applying that critique 509 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:15,880 Speaker 1: to these other hateful bastards as well. I mean, it's 510 00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:18,359 Speaker 1: a great question. I feel like if the research has 511 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:21,440 Speaker 1: anything to be to be looked at like most people are. 512 00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:24,320 Speaker 1: When they see a woman, it's like you're an ugly skank, 513 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:26,800 Speaker 1: blah blah blah, and when you see a man it's 514 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:30,000 Speaker 1: like it's I would like to see a world where, 515 00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:32,439 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know that we're ever gonna get 516 00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:35,360 Speaker 1: to a place where women are not insulted for their 517 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:38,920 Speaker 1: looks and things they can't control. Why why why can't 518 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:41,840 Speaker 1: Ted Cruz be take take one for his looks, you know, 519 00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:46,440 Speaker 1: more than one preferably. And then I think there's always 520 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:52,960 Speaker 1: like Republican generally written large. If a woman is like 521 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:56,000 Speaker 1: made fun of, like Sarah how Colbe Sanders um at 522 00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:59,400 Speaker 1: the White House Press Correspondence Dinner by Michelle Wolf, suddenly 523 00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:04,960 Speaker 1: they're like, you mean, do that, but AOC is a 524 00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:08,360 Speaker 1: Latino with a big gass, and we all know that 525 00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:11,280 Speaker 1: she's having anchor babies, you know, like whatever in the 526 00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:13,440 Speaker 1: same breath, and they'll be like, how dare you make 527 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:17,520 Speaker 1: fun of Sarah copy Sanders his eyeshadow. She's just a woman. 528 00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:20,600 Speaker 1: But they do not apply that at all. Obviously the 529 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:22,400 Speaker 1: other side. I mean, come on, and this is why, 530 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:25,720 Speaker 1: like AOC when she openly speaks about how she gets 531 00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:28,360 Speaker 1: these death threats that are very sexual in nature and 532 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:34,480 Speaker 1: also like really charged with that that disgusting like amalgamation 533 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:38,320 Speaker 1: of both being attracted to and then also hating hatefulness 534 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:41,320 Speaker 1: towards her, the vin Tucker Carlson will straight up a 535 00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:43,240 Speaker 1: dedicated half an hour segment to be like, Oh, do 536 00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:45,200 Speaker 1: you think people want to poke you? I mean, we 537 00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:47,160 Speaker 1: do want to poke you, but we don't what we do. 538 00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:50,480 Speaker 1: But whatever you're growsing you we girl that grows like 539 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:54,120 Speaker 1: he it's and you're like, you're proving our point, homie. 540 00:29:54,760 --> 00:30:01,720 Speaker 1: Are you suggesting that these people are disingenuous? Yeah, Tucker Carlson. 541 00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:04,120 Speaker 1: I mean I could do a whole episode on the 542 00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:08,840 Speaker 1: way that he coordinates these attacks on women. And then 543 00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:11,120 Speaker 1: when the women are like actually, like when they just 544 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:13,880 Speaker 1: are honest about them, he's like, oh, like, it's exactly 545 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:17,040 Speaker 1: what you said. And it's so clear that everyone knows 546 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:19,480 Speaker 1: what's going on. But the only reason that he's able 547 00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:23,000 Speaker 1: to get away with minimizing what we can all see 548 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:27,120 Speaker 1: is these like super weird, sexually charged attacks is because 549 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:29,440 Speaker 1: he's not we're not we're not talking honestly about them 550 00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:32,080 Speaker 1: as a society, Like like the women who are targeted 551 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:34,760 Speaker 1: aren't really able to speak about them openly, and when 552 00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:37,480 Speaker 1: they do, their attacked, and so it's allows for this 553 00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:41,200 Speaker 1: vibe or like it's happening, we all see it happening, 554 00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:43,880 Speaker 1: we're not talking about it happening. People like Tucker Carlson 555 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:46,960 Speaker 1: can be actively engaged in it happening and like do 556 00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:49,840 Speaker 1: make it happen and then go on TV and be 557 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:53,600 Speaker 1: like what are you talking about? And you know exactly, Yeah, 558 00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:58,160 Speaker 1: Santa Claus doesn't exist, but like make sure to put 559 00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:01,280 Speaker 1: the cookies out every single Christmas. Like it's just like 560 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:05,600 Speaker 1: you're straight up talking, you're make You're willing it into existence. 561 00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:09,080 Speaker 1: And AOC to her credit and Ilhano mar to a 562 00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:11,840 Speaker 1: lesser extent, I think obviously being a Muslim American woman 563 00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:14,920 Speaker 1: like she is targeted because of that as well wearing 564 00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:18,120 Speaker 1: a job, but AOC is actually able to talk about 565 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:20,720 Speaker 1: it and be like, yo, there, it is sexual in 566 00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:23,440 Speaker 1: nature and that doesn't mean that I'm thirsty for that 567 00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:28,840 Speaker 1: attention at all. And then Republicans are like, oh, she's 568 00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:31,200 Speaker 1: like no, and I think that's because we are definitely 569 00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:33,840 Speaker 1: taught to like when there is a tinge of like, 570 00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:37,920 Speaker 1: and especially if someone is attractive, he's attractive, you know, 571 00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:42,600 Speaker 1: we're taught to like not um or as women online 572 00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:46,600 Speaker 1: like m hmm. Don't don't discuss or bring up the 573 00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:49,440 Speaker 1: fact that someone is targeting you in a sexual manner, 574 00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:53,160 Speaker 1: because it will almost feel like you're bringing it on 575 00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:55,400 Speaker 1: yourself because you're left, do you know what I mean? 576 00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:59,040 Speaker 1: And the are you wearing type of way? I know 577 00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:02,080 Speaker 1: exactly what you mean, where it's this weird trap of 578 00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:05,680 Speaker 1: like if you even acknowledge the fact that it's happening, 579 00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:09,360 Speaker 1: the idea, the impression is that you're playing into it, 580 00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:11,200 Speaker 1: or that maybe you want it, or it's a two 581 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:14,040 Speaker 1: way street, or like you're you're you're enticing it in 582 00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:16,080 Speaker 1: some way, and so that it's one of the reasons 583 00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:19,480 Speaker 1: why talking about harassment, especially when it's kind of sexually 584 00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:23,360 Speaker 1: charged or sexually tinged, is so difficult because nobody wants 585 00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:26,200 Speaker 1: this insinuation that you're that you're getting off on it 586 00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:29,200 Speaker 1: or inviting it or wanting it. But I think, I mean, 587 00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:31,240 Speaker 1: it's hard to talk about, but I think it's especially 588 00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:36,000 Speaker 1: true when you're talking about like young conventionally attractive women. 589 00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:39,440 Speaker 1: I think that like men does don't know what to do. 590 00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:41,360 Speaker 1: It's like they look like they get can they like 591 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:44,800 Speaker 1: they hate them, but they're aroused. It's like, I think 592 00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:48,320 Speaker 1: something happens where they don't know how to handle it. 593 00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:52,440 Speaker 1: It comes out as this like incredibly weird, sexually tinged harassment, 594 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:55,680 Speaker 1: And if she even acknowledges the reality of it, then 595 00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:57,360 Speaker 1: it's like, oh, well, she must want it, she likes 596 00:32:57,400 --> 00:32:59,840 Speaker 1: the attention. Like and I think it really goes back 597 00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:01,640 Speaker 1: to this idea that I want to combat in this 598 00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:04,840 Speaker 1: episode that like women who run for public office or 599 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:07,040 Speaker 1: women who choose to be visible. So even if you're 600 00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:09,480 Speaker 1: not running for public office, if you are an activist, 601 00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,040 Speaker 1: or if you are a pundit, or you're somebody who 602 00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:15,480 Speaker 1: you know builds a platform on Twitter, because you are 603 00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:19,480 Speaker 1: building up this profile, Like I feel like that comes 604 00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:22,080 Speaker 1: along with a kind of suspicion that you are a 605 00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:24,800 Speaker 1: woman who wants power. You're a woman who wants visibility. 606 00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:27,720 Speaker 1: You're a woman who wants eyes on her. Therefore you 607 00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:30,400 Speaker 1: deserve whatever you get. It comes with it comes with 608 00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:32,800 Speaker 1: the territory of showing up in that way and if 609 00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:35,720 Speaker 1: you did, if you didn't really want that kind of sexualized, 610 00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:38,920 Speaker 1: charred harassment and attention, you would be in the shadows. 611 00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:40,720 Speaker 1: You would not be a public figure, you would not 612 00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:44,200 Speaker 1: be running for office, you would be completely offline. If 613 00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:46,720 Speaker 1: it's no one, no one applies that. No one applies 614 00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:51,360 Speaker 1: that to men. Although we all know Ted Cruz very 615 00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:56,840 Speaker 1: much gets off on being trolled, so she actually is 616 00:33:56,920 --> 00:34:01,360 Speaker 1: aroused and is inviting it and wants you to dunk 617 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:06,600 Speaker 1: on him. It gets him whoa things that I don't 618 00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:09,799 Speaker 1: want to imagine. So everyone just know that every time 619 00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:13,000 Speaker 1: you're gonna tweet, bagoted Cruise or make fun of him, 620 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:16,680 Speaker 1: that it only makes him stronger, you know where. So yeah, yes, 621 00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:26,480 Speaker 1: it is. Yeah. So one of the important things to 622 00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:29,080 Speaker 1: remember is that the point of all of this, all 623 00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:31,600 Speaker 1: of these like racist, sexist attacks on women and women 624 00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:34,480 Speaker 1: of color in the public eye. It's it's particularly for 625 00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:36,640 Speaker 1: who are running for office or holding an elected office. 626 00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:39,160 Speaker 1: It's meant to take all of the oxygen out of 627 00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:42,040 Speaker 1: the room and have the thing that takes up the 628 00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:45,080 Speaker 1: most base, be the racism or the sexism or the 629 00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:48,600 Speaker 1: sexualization or whatever. And a great example is Kamala Harris. 630 00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:51,200 Speaker 1: Now I should say, I am no big fan of 631 00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:53,600 Speaker 1: Harris when she was running for president. I had major 632 00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:56,080 Speaker 1: issues with her record, you know. But when she was 633 00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:59,960 Speaker 1: named as Biden's vice presidential pick, she based a way 634 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:04,839 Speaker 1: aave of like, racist, misogynistic, sexually charged attacks, including these 635 00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:09,040 Speaker 1: like explicit and unplicit suggestions that she is untrustworthy, too emotional, 636 00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:11,920 Speaker 1: or unqualified, according to The New York Times false. And 637 00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:14,480 Speaker 1: then this leading information about Harris spiked online on on 638 00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:16,799 Speaker 1: TV as soon as she was named as the vice 639 00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:19,839 Speaker 1: presidential pick. The activity jumped from two dozen mentions per 640 00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:22,719 Speaker 1: hour during the recent week to over three thousand, two 641 00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:24,880 Speaker 1: hundred per hour when she was named. This is according 642 00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:28,080 Speaker 1: to a company called Signal And so there's something very 643 00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:31,200 Speaker 1: specific about the attacks on her. I'm gonna put a 644 00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:33,680 Speaker 1: link in the chat to an image or actually, Sophie's 645 00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:39,040 Speaker 1: got it, super producer, So what tell me? Tell me 646 00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:42,480 Speaker 1: what your reaction to this image here? It's pretty upsetting, 647 00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:51,160 Speaker 1: h is those the legs? Those are those are white 648 00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:54,720 Speaker 1: women legs. Oh, it's a very sloppy photo, I should 649 00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:59,000 Speaker 1: probably describe it's a very spy photoshop job of Harris 650 00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:01,839 Speaker 1: on her back with a pair of obviously like white 651 00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:07,719 Speaker 1: women's legs in heels up. It says, get her done, Kamala, 652 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:10,680 Speaker 1: heals up Harris for the people. She's got a little 653 00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:13,879 Speaker 1: speech bubble where she is saying to be VP. Sure 654 00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:16,279 Speaker 1: I will. And so the insinuation is that she is 655 00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:19,319 Speaker 1: having sex with someone in order to become the vice 656 00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:24,320 Speaker 1: presidential pick. Yeah, it's a terrible photoshop job. It's clearly 657 00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:26,200 Speaker 1: the legs of a white woman. It's like not she 658 00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:29,160 Speaker 1: doesn't even wear shoes like that. Um, but yeah, I mean, 659 00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:31,399 Speaker 1: but I think more than that. I mean, obviously those 660 00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:34,440 Speaker 1: shoes look really painful number one to walk in. But 661 00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:37,800 Speaker 1: more than that, it is very jarring to see someone, 662 00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:43,000 Speaker 1: a public figure who is deserving of a minimal amount 663 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:48,600 Speaker 1: of respect, to be portrayed in this way. Um, so disgustingly. 664 00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:51,680 Speaker 1: And um it's the same when like, you know, I 665 00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:53,839 Speaker 1: was no big fan of Hillary Clinton, but watching seeing 666 00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:57,720 Speaker 1: all those shirts that are like you know, Hillary swallows, 667 00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:00,520 Speaker 1: like that shirt people are selling, Like what the fuck 668 00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:03,440 Speaker 1: you know, like Hillary, why why are you selling this? 669 00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:06,120 Speaker 1: Like I understand, like go back to lock her up? 670 00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:10,040 Speaker 1: And this is it's that same thing, like no matter 671 00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:14,080 Speaker 1: how far you get, we can always photos like we're 672 00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:16,800 Speaker 1: always imagining you like fucking your way to the top, 673 00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:19,640 Speaker 1: Like we're all be your only reduced to the fact 674 00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:23,920 Speaker 1: that you are a woman. Exact criticize her record, this 675 00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:28,480 Speaker 1: is like so juvenile and disgusting, right, and so like, 676 00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:30,560 Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's one of those things. So, so 677 00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:32,960 Speaker 1: this is the common trope with Harris, Like if you 678 00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:35,520 Speaker 1: google the phrase heels up Harris, that was like a 679 00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:39,440 Speaker 1: common attack on her, is that this idea that she 680 00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:42,000 Speaker 1: slept quote slipt her way to the top. And it's 681 00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:44,680 Speaker 1: a bit like the attacks on Ghostbusters that we talked 682 00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:48,160 Speaker 1: about last episode, where the whole conversation gets flattened out 683 00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:51,640 Speaker 1: and becomes people taking sides and nobody is just like 684 00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:53,640 Speaker 1: talking about the merit of the movie, right, And so 685 00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:57,920 Speaker 1: when it comes to Harris, you know, people are lobbying 686 00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:02,200 Speaker 1: these incredible, incredibly like set realized attacks on her because 687 00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:05,000 Speaker 1: she is a woman of color, and then people watching 688 00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:08,319 Speaker 1: they I kind of understandably feel like they have to 689 00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:12,480 Speaker 1: support her. And so Harris has an incredibly like robust 690 00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:16,080 Speaker 1: online network of supporters who will like pervently pushed back 691 00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:18,960 Speaker 1: against any and all criticisms of her online. And so 692 00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:21,959 Speaker 1: the ability to just have an honest, accurate conversation about 693 00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:25,960 Speaker 1: her record, her merit, her acts, her actual actions gets 694 00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:29,160 Speaker 1: totally lost in the noise intention. And then it's I 695 00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:32,640 Speaker 1: think precisely the point nobody can talk about her actual record, 696 00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:35,960 Speaker 1: whether or not she's fit for office whatever, when you 697 00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:41,319 Speaker 1: introduce these kinds of like sexist, racist, gross attacks. And 698 00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:44,240 Speaker 1: so I would say, like, even if you're somebody who 699 00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:47,520 Speaker 1: you know doesn't like Harris, doesn't think that she is, 700 00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:49,400 Speaker 1: you know, should have didn't think she made it a president, 701 00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:52,040 Speaker 1: doesn't make she makes a good vice presidential candidate, I 702 00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:54,400 Speaker 1: feel like you should be invested in making sure the 703 00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:58,960 Speaker 1: conversation does not rely and traffic in these sexist smears 704 00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:02,320 Speaker 1: and tropes, because you should want to be having space 705 00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:04,759 Speaker 1: to talk about her actual record. But when these are 706 00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:08,160 Speaker 1: introduced into the conversation, we don't really get that. I mean, 707 00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:10,120 Speaker 1: look at how effectively it worked in twenty six seen 708 00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:12,399 Speaker 1: against Hillary Clinton. As I was mentioning before, I mean, 709 00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:17,040 Speaker 1: it is again absent of like put the record aside. 710 00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:21,319 Speaker 1: We've seen the way women in public spaces have been 711 00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:26,040 Speaker 1: completely torn down. And this is why I mean, I 712 00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:28,479 Speaker 1: will say we can't have nice things, and by nice things, 713 00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:31,400 Speaker 1: I mean a first female president a um, you know, 714 00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:35,200 Speaker 1: vice president of color, like I mean, which we do have, 715 00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:39,640 Speaker 1: but like by you know, it's a thin we're we're 716 00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:43,799 Speaker 1: we're treading very lightly here. And if Kamala Harris does 717 00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:46,640 Speaker 1: run for president one day again, this will only get 718 00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:49,640 Speaker 1: worse and worse and worse and focus on all side 719 00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:51,880 Speaker 1: of the political spectrum. And I'm a huge Bernie bro 720 00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:55,680 Speaker 1: Like I do not like Hillary Clinton or Kamala Harris 721 00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:59,000 Speaker 1: for that matter, but my god, I understand how these 722 00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:01,759 Speaker 1: things are weaponized against them to tear them down. And 723 00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:06,320 Speaker 1: what's fucked is that it is conflated with their record 724 00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:11,600 Speaker 1: rather than separated. It is automatically conflated so that people 725 00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:15,040 Speaker 1: who whose politics I disagree with, you know, maybe someone 726 00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:17,279 Speaker 1: from the k hive who's like, you know, yeah, I 727 00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:21,239 Speaker 1: think we need more cops like kamally like like that 728 00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:24,839 Speaker 1: that I will get accused of racism or sexism when 729 00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:28,000 Speaker 1: I'm bringing up a substantive point um. And that is 730 00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:30,400 Speaker 1: the way that I think identity politics can be weaponized 731 00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:35,360 Speaker 1: in a cynical and way by liberals. You know, Yeah, 732 00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:40,320 Speaker 1: I find myself, it's I find myself having to defend women, 733 00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:43,560 Speaker 1: particularly women of color whose politics I don't align with 734 00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:45,799 Speaker 1: Time and time again where I'm like, how can we 735 00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:48,200 Speaker 1: just talk about but they're so well, some of these people, 736 00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:51,000 Speaker 1: there's so much to dislike, there's so much to pull apart. 737 00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:53,920 Speaker 1: We really don't have to talk about the way she looks. 738 00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:57,000 Speaker 1: We really don't have to rely on like sexist tropes 739 00:40:57,080 --> 00:40:59,239 Speaker 1: about any of this. Like there's for a lot of 740 00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:02,200 Speaker 1: these people, they're so much substance there to talk about. 741 00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:06,040 Speaker 1: Why are you cheapening the conversation by introducing this stuff? 742 00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:10,239 Speaker 1: And we it's like, if you if you're someone who 743 00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:12,640 Speaker 1: doesn't like these figures, you should be investing and having 744 00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:15,799 Speaker 1: a real conversation about their actual records so that like 745 00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:18,759 Speaker 1: we can actually air it out when you introduce these 746 00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:21,960 Speaker 1: kinds of like this garbage. People aren't doing that because 747 00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:24,360 Speaker 1: that is like the point of these attacks. They just 748 00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:27,040 Speaker 1: take up so much room and then you're defending it, 749 00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:28,839 Speaker 1: and then and then people are defending them, and like 750 00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:31,239 Speaker 1: you lose, you lose the thread of like well what 751 00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:33,800 Speaker 1: do we act like what is this person's actual record? 752 00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:38,120 Speaker 1: What is our actual merit? Completely so I obviously had 753 00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:40,759 Speaker 1: a ton to say about this topic, so much that 754 00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:43,680 Speaker 1: we actually needed to do an additional episode. So this 755 00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:47,040 Speaker 1: is just part one of Francesca, Sophie and My exploration 756 00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:49,480 Speaker 1: into the ways that online abuse and harassment can keep 757 00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:52,680 Speaker 1: women out of elected office, create barriers to their success 758 00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:56,640 Speaker 1: once they get there, and overall crtail speech and civic participation. 759 00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:00,040 Speaker 1: We'll be talking more in depth about specific women of 760 00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:03,120 Speaker 1: their political candidates and the campaigns of harassment that they 761 00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:05,799 Speaker 1: had to endure once they got into public office. In 762 00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:09,520 Speaker 1: the meantime, here's Baltimore States Attorney Marylyn Moseby talking about 763 00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:12,600 Speaker 1: her experience as a black woman and left official. You know, 764 00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:15,640 Speaker 1: it can be overwhelming, and I think my kids more recently, 765 00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:17,279 Speaker 1: I would say, in the past year or so, I 766 00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:20,239 Speaker 1: have seen me understress. And so for the first time, 767 00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:22,640 Speaker 1: my baby said, Mommy, I don't want to be a 768 00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:25,319 Speaker 1: politician anymore. And I'm like, why, why don't you want 769 00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:28,319 Speaker 1: to be a politician? Like what? What? Now? She's like, 770 00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:30,200 Speaker 1: I don't want them to treat me the way he 771 00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:32,480 Speaker 1: treat you. So that brought it tear to my eye. 772 00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:35,040 Speaker 1: But other than that, I'm like, baby, they will only 773 00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:37,359 Speaker 1: treat you like that when you stand for what's right, 774 00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:42,160 Speaker 1: and that's what comes with trying to change systems and 775 00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:44,920 Speaker 1: if mommy is gonna be fine. But this this comes 776 00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:47,480 Speaker 1: with the territory. You have to have courage enough to 777 00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:49,279 Speaker 1: know that you're doing the right thing. As long as 778 00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:51,320 Speaker 1: you're doing the right thing, people are always going to 779 00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:54,840 Speaker 1: come for you. Not only are these stories heartbreaking, but 780 00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:58,960 Speaker 1: they also demonstrate how online harassment and abuse keeps us 781 00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:02,520 Speaker 1: from having the healthy democracy that we deserve. There is 782 00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:05,080 Speaker 1: so much to say about this, so please, please please 783 00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:07,479 Speaker 1: tune in to part two of our exploration of black 784 00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:10,759 Speaker 1: women political candidates, online harassment and abuse and why it's 785 00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:15,960 Speaker 1: the problem for all of us. Internet Hate Machine is 786 00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:18,919 Speaker 1: a production of cool Zone Media. More podcasts from cool 787 00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:21,920 Speaker 1: Zone Media, check out our website cool zone media dot com, 788 00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:24,640 Speaker 1: or find us on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 789 00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:26,319 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.