1 00:00:01,200 --> 00:00:04,600 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know from House Stuff Works 2 00:00:04,640 --> 00:00:10,080 Speaker 1: dot com. Hi, and welcome to the podcast. Hi everybody, Chuck, 3 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:13,600 Speaker 1: how are you doing good? That's Chuck by the way, 4 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:16,239 Speaker 1: and I'm Josh. We're going to be your guys through 5 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:20,040 Speaker 1: the next fifteen minutes of total mind expansion. Tell you 6 00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:22,079 Speaker 1: some stuff you should know. Yeah, and this one is 7 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:25,119 Speaker 1: actually pretty cool, uh, the one we're doing today. I 8 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:26,960 Speaker 1: guess they're all pretty cool. We we like to make 9 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 1: them cool. But this one is something that probably a 10 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 1: lot of your friends won't know about, so you can 11 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:35,600 Speaker 1: wow them at the next cocktail party, the next kid's 12 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:41,360 Speaker 1: birthday party, any kind of party. That's very succinct. Chuck, Um, Chuck. 13 00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:46,040 Speaker 1: Let's talk about legal fiction. Okay, okay, you want me 14 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:50,159 Speaker 1: to talk about You're not talking about John Grisham. No, no, 15 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 1: who No, sorry, that was Creon that died. I think 16 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:56,640 Speaker 1: John Grisham is alive and well, yes, and he's an 17 00:00:56,800 --> 00:00:59,520 Speaker 1: attorney and a novelist, right, yeah, and he's pretty good too. 18 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 1: But we're not talking about Christam's work. Um, we're talking 19 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:06,320 Speaker 1: about it's actually a it's a it's a legal term 20 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:10,680 Speaker 1: that's used basically to describe, uh, anytime a court says 21 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:14,479 Speaker 1: something is true that's not true, just for the sake 22 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:18,120 Speaker 1: of moving things along, keeping things tightier. It's kind of 23 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:20,280 Speaker 1: like if you and I were having a conversation, Chuck, 24 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:24,880 Speaker 1: and I said, you know, um my uh my right 25 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 1: jab is a million times better than yours, and we 26 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:32,119 Speaker 1: were kind of debating that rather than stopping and saying 27 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:35,200 Speaker 1: that that's hyperbole. I don't agree with that. You're just 28 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:37,320 Speaker 1: gonna kind of nod and we're gonna stick to the 29 00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:39,479 Speaker 1: meat of it, right, Or we should punch each other 30 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:41,679 Speaker 1: and we can find out that. It's one way to 31 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:45,400 Speaker 1: find out. Yeah, although as everyone knows, we're not big fighters. No, 32 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 1: I would miss your face, that's how bad I am. 33 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 1: It would be clumsy. Uh. Well, let me give you 34 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 1: an example of legal fiction specifically, Um, there's uh, there's 35 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:57,760 Speaker 1: this thing called a renunciation of a legacy. If you 36 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 1: heard of this, No, So basically, let's say I find 37 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 1: out that I'm in your will and I'm just like 38 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 1: that Chuck, he's far too generous. I can't accept this. 39 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:09,480 Speaker 1: You know, maybe if I if I take myself out 40 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 1: of his will, uh, he will um go ahead and 41 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:16,600 Speaker 1: give that money to uh the poor or orphans or 42 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:20,520 Speaker 1: something like that. Okay, Um, the thing is is you're 43 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:23,440 Speaker 1: sticking to your guns. I'm in your will. You'll love me, 44 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:26,520 Speaker 1: You'll want to leave me some money. There's something I 45 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 1: can do. I can renounce that legacy. I go to 46 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 1: the court and the court says, Okay, you're dead. You 47 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:38,440 Speaker 1: have the chuck has outlived you. As far as this 48 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 1: will is concerned, I've predeceased you, which means that any 49 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:45,960 Speaker 1: claim I could have is no one void since I'm 50 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:49,720 Speaker 1: no longer alive. You see what I'm saying. That's legal fiction. 51 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 1: They as far as that will concerned, I'm dead, You're 52 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:55,840 Speaker 1: still alive. Interesting, isn't that interesting? Is there's another piece 53 00:02:55,840 --> 00:03:00,680 Speaker 1: of legal fiction called corporate person That's right, this is 54 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 1: the meat of what we're talking about. Indeed, Um, corporate 55 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:08,240 Speaker 1: personhood is exactly what it sounds like. Uh. There is 56 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:10,840 Speaker 1: a legal custom, not just in the US, but it 57 00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:13,800 Speaker 1: dates back to the Romans. I believe the ancient Romans, 58 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 1: not today's Romans. The original Romans um where a corporation 59 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 1: which is really just a pool of investors money. That's 60 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 1: that's that's taken together and used to conduct business. Is 61 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:33,720 Speaker 1: it's considered an actual artificial person under the law. Yeah, 62 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 1: that that this is kind of blew me away me too, 63 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 1: to be honest. Yeah, there's this guy named Tom Hartman, 64 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:41,840 Speaker 1: um who I heard years ago on MPR talking about this, 65 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 1: and he wrote this great book, um, and it's worth 66 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 1: a read. I can't remember what it's called right now. 67 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 1: I've got it written down on one of my notes 68 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 1: that I can't find. But um, he turned me onto this. 69 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:55,560 Speaker 1: He has this radio show out west and he is 70 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:59,480 Speaker 1: very much against corporate personhood and a lot of people are. 71 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:04,960 Speaker 1: Here's why corporations if you treat them as a person. Well, 72 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:08,680 Speaker 1: our punitive legal system, chuck. That keeps us from you know, 73 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:12,000 Speaker 1: stabbing old ladies for their purses or you know, just 74 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:15,839 Speaker 1: walking into grocery stores and opening up cash registers. There's 75 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 1: a little thing called prison. Sure, there's also a thing 76 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 1: called the gas chamber, the electric chair, the hangman's gallows. 77 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:26,679 Speaker 1: There is punishment out there for our actions and these 78 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:31,040 Speaker 1: these this punishment is designed to keep us from crossing 79 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 1: that line from upstanding citizen to you know, anarchistic criminal. Um. 80 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:39,960 Speaker 1: And and so we don't do things in large part 81 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:43,600 Speaker 1: because there's prison. There's consequences if not, I would be 82 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 1: hitting old ladies over the head every day. Who wouldn't. Exactly, 83 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:52,679 Speaker 1: it's prison keeps our society intact. I'm just as that. So, Um, 84 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 1: with the corporation, you have to kind of look at it. 85 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:58,120 Speaker 1: Since it's an artificial person, you have to look at 86 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:01,800 Speaker 1: it as a superhuman person too. It doesn't need food, 87 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 1: doesn't need water. You can't put it in prison. It 88 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:08,920 Speaker 1: doesn't feel pain, right, Um, it has no life space. 89 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 1: It's it's limitless. As long as there's those shares are 90 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:15,120 Speaker 1: out there and it's making a profit, a corporation can 91 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:18,960 Speaker 1: live indefinitely. Um. So this is why it's kind of 92 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:22,480 Speaker 1: a sticky discussion. This is why people like Tom Hartman 93 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:27,480 Speaker 1: are very much against corporate personhood and the whole thing. Actually, um, 94 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:29,920 Speaker 1: this has been going on for a while. Jefferson, Thomas 95 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 1: Jefferson was very much an advocate of putting UH life 96 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 1: lifespan limits restrictions, including UH lifespan limits on corporations in 97 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:45,400 Speaker 1: the constitution. And he failed. Yeah, he failed on each count. Yeah. 98 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 1: So actually we almost had a constitutional provision that said 99 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:53,480 Speaker 1: corporations can only last this long. And there's this limitation 100 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:57,880 Speaker 1: because Jefferson in his usual capacity saw far into the 101 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:01,640 Speaker 1: future and all the problems that this random aspect of 102 00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 1: you know, American society or global society will have. He 103 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 1: was a pretty insightful dude, and he was absolutely right. 104 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:12,159 Speaker 1: We've run into some serious problems with the concept of 105 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 1: corporate personhood, right, and I know the Fourteenth Amendment is 106 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:18,360 Speaker 1: kind of where it all comes together. Yeah. Actually, the 107 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:22,120 Speaker 1: irony of the whole thing is that rather than being 108 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 1: restricted by the Constitution, corporations were actually detected by the 109 00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:31,159 Speaker 1: Constitution as artificial people under the Fourteenth Amendment, which I 110 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:33,520 Speaker 1: know you pointed out. The last word of the Fourteenth 111 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 1: Amendment equal rights protection under the law to every person. 112 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 1: Every person. That is a very significant word, because of 113 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 1: course corporations are artificial persons, right right. So, um in 114 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 1: very rapid succession that was I think eighteen sixty eight 115 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:54,359 Speaker 1: when that was ratified the Fourteenth Amendment. Very quickly, a 116 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 1: um A court case came to the Supreme Court for 117 00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:02,360 Speaker 1: decision that had to do with applying that to corporations. 118 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:06,960 Speaker 1: Santa Clara County, the Southern Pacific Railroad, and if you 119 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 1: think about it, basically applying a constitutional amendment that protected 120 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 1: freed slaves, newly freed slaves, and trying to get it 121 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 1: to apply to corporations. And I didn't have the pinnacle 122 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:23,640 Speaker 1: of tastelessness. Ye. So yeah, Well, nineteenth century Robert Barons 123 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:26,240 Speaker 1: weren't above anything. And one of the things they did 124 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 1: was in that case, the Union Pacific case. Um, they 125 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 1: they finally applied the the Supreme Court, I can't remember 126 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:37,240 Speaker 1: who was at the head at the time basically said 127 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:39,559 Speaker 1: you know what, we realized what this case is saying. 128 00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 1: And ultimately what the case did was it upheld the 129 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:46,000 Speaker 1: longstanding custom that it was up to a state to 130 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:50,720 Speaker 1: tax and to charter corporations. And that's still going on today, 131 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 1: like as UH President elect Obama excruciatingly pointed out. And 132 00:07:56,160 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 1: I think the second debate, Delaware is a big haven 133 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 1: for credit card companies, which is where the vice president 134 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 1: elect hails from, because of the tax benefits. Correct. Yeah, 135 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:08,440 Speaker 1: it's set up in a certain way so that credit 136 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:12,000 Speaker 1: card companies benefit the most from that state. The same 137 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:14,360 Speaker 1: Florida as a tax haven for I think real estate 138 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:17,560 Speaker 1: businesses or something like that. I think Florida doesn't have 139 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 1: an income tax, is that right? Don't They don't have 140 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:25,080 Speaker 1: an income tax. Yeah. No, they just operate on borrowed time. Right. 141 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:28,080 Speaker 1: I'm moving to Florida. Yeah, same here, buddy. UM. So, 142 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 1: in this case, Santa Clara versus Southern Pacific Union Pacific, 143 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 1: one of the two Southern Southern Pacific thank you. Um 144 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 1: that was established. But here's where everything just gets totally hinky. 145 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:44,200 Speaker 1: I know, and I couldn't believe this. Yeah, the the 146 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:46,960 Speaker 1: court reporter for the Supreme Court wrote a little head 147 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:49,240 Speaker 1: note which is exactly what sounds like. It's a note 148 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:52,160 Speaker 1: at the head of the briefs of the ruling, and 149 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 1: it's said, court decides that under the fourteenth Amendment, UH, 150 00:08:57,559 --> 00:09:02,560 Speaker 1: corporations are afforded detection equal protection under the law. And 151 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:05,840 Speaker 1: that was it, right. But where it gets hanky, as 152 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 1: you say, is that the Chief Justice did not say this. No, 153 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:13,560 Speaker 1: he actually wrote a personal note that was uncovered later 154 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:17,680 Speaker 1: on that said that the Court specifically did not rule 155 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 1: on that. I knew that that's what the case came 156 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 1: down to, written down, prepared to do that, right, just 157 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:24,559 Speaker 1: written down by the court the court reporter who turned 158 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:31,360 Speaker 1: out to be I believe an ex president, which I 159 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:35,800 Speaker 1: this is that a step back or not? You know, 160 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 1: there's a long tradition of high finance, of huge industry 161 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:44,440 Speaker 1: putting their own people into public government. And as somebody 162 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 1: said recently, you know, um Paulson's from Goldman Sacks, and 163 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:54,120 Speaker 1: somebody said recently, there is a revolving door between private 164 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:58,280 Speaker 1: and public service, very linked. And I apparently this was 165 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:00,599 Speaker 1: been going on for a very long time. Well it 166 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:03,679 Speaker 1: worked in this case. It did because since it was 167 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:06,800 Speaker 1: a head note, it wasn't law, but it did set 168 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 1: precedent right, And I don't understand how that works, to 169 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:12,079 Speaker 1: be honest. Well, somebody can say, look, it's written right 170 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:14,280 Speaker 1: here and and you can use it as part of 171 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:17,120 Speaker 1: your argument, and they did. I think two years later 172 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:19,679 Speaker 1: there was another case, I think another railroad case or something. 173 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:23,200 Speaker 1: They pointed to it, and the Supreme Court finally ruled 174 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:27,720 Speaker 1: and said, yes, corporations have equal protection under the laws, 175 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:30,679 Speaker 1: artificial person, because this schmuck wrote it down, because he 176 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 1: wrote it down at the head note of a ruling 177 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:34,520 Speaker 1: that had nothing to do with Yeah, I had no 178 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:36,880 Speaker 1: idea that the court reporter was such a position of power. 179 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:40,200 Speaker 1: Well apparently no one else did either, But yeah, so 180 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 1: that's how we've gotten to the point where corporations have 181 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:46,680 Speaker 1: the same protection as you, chuck. The cops can't just 182 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:48,960 Speaker 1: come into your house and start looking around and the 183 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:52,360 Speaker 1: hopes that they find something incriminating because you're a person 184 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 1: and you're protected under i think the Fourth Amendment from 185 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 1: unreasonable searchers. So to our corporations, yeah, um, there was 186 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:04,120 Speaker 1: a case in the seventies where ocean inspectors, you know, 187 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 1: they could just walk into a corporate headquarters business something 188 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 1: like that for inspection and yeah, looking for violations, that 189 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:14,840 Speaker 1: kind of thing. Somebody sued that, you know, the corporations 190 00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 1: enjoy the same protection under the law in the Fourth 191 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:21,839 Speaker 1: Amendment and one. So now if you want to find violations, 192 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:24,640 Speaker 1: you have to make an appointment with the you know, 193 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:29,640 Speaker 1: a manager the store. Um, that one of the corporate officers, right, 194 00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:32,400 Speaker 1: And I know, uh, I don't think this applies for 195 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:36,520 Speaker 1: food restaurant inspections because I used to work in restaurants 196 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:39,400 Speaker 1: and remember we were always caught very much off guard 197 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:43,200 Speaker 1: when the health inspector showed up. Yeah yeah, um, I 198 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:45,560 Speaker 1: don't know why that would be any different, but yeah, 199 00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:48,120 Speaker 1: well maybe just we'll take a restaurant to file a 200 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:51,440 Speaker 1: suit for it to happen. Maybe so maybe so, um, 201 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 1: there's also a really sterling example. I love Nike. Nike 202 00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:02,280 Speaker 1: um as we all know, as is common knowledge now, uh, 203 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:08,559 Speaker 1: Nike was running some really abuse of corporate practices overseas 204 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:11,959 Speaker 1: and it's one word for him. Definitely in the nineties, 205 00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:16,479 Speaker 1: this is not widely known. I mean a certain subversive 206 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:19,760 Speaker 1: section of the of society understood this right. People that 207 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:23,000 Speaker 1: did their homework right. Most people didn't really walk around going, oh, 208 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:26,359 Speaker 1: Nike run sweatshops over and you know, I think Malaysia 209 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:30,679 Speaker 1: UM one M I T student actually managed to break 210 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:34,679 Speaker 1: it into the public view. And uh, I can't remember. 211 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:37,439 Speaker 1: Do you remember when this was when Nike would allow 212 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:40,360 Speaker 1: you to have anything you want stitched on their shoes. 213 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:43,880 Speaker 1: I don't remember that, but it was in two thousand one. 214 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:48,079 Speaker 1: You could get something stitched, a personal message or whatever 215 00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:50,640 Speaker 1: your name something yeah, yeah, And this guy from M 216 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:54,160 Speaker 1: I T wanted the word sweatshop embroidered on his Nikes yeah, 217 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 1: and they said no. So he forwarded the email around 218 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:00,800 Speaker 1: and in a very short order got picked up by 219 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:05,200 Speaker 1: some of the major news services and people started investigating 220 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:09,520 Speaker 1: Nike's practices more and more. Well, Nike, it started this 221 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:14,319 Speaker 1: huge pr blitz where they said no, that's absolutely not true. 222 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:19,200 Speaker 1: This is this is completely unfounded. We treat all of 223 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 1: our employees very well. I mean, just lie after lie 224 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:28,080 Speaker 1: after lie. Finally, somebody went to Malaysia some of these countries, 225 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:31,120 Speaker 1: these developing countries where Nike was running these sweatshops and 226 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:35,079 Speaker 1: filmed the practices. Somebody made a pretty decent documentary out 227 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:36,880 Speaker 1: of I can't remember what it was called, but apparently 228 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:41,040 Speaker 1: the living conditions were important. Factory workers were um, living 229 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 1: in shannytown's next to the factory, and the roofs were 230 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:47,880 Speaker 1: made of discarded souls, like the stuff they used to 231 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:50,520 Speaker 1: for the souls of the Nike. Um. You know, it's 232 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:54,240 Speaker 1: just really bad business practices. So finally Nike is forced 233 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:59,840 Speaker 1: to say, okay, fine, you know that's right. Was brought 234 00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:03,040 Speaker 1: by man in California. And what was Nike's defense. Uh, 235 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:06,679 Speaker 1: Nike's defense was, and this is just unbelievable, was that 236 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:10,000 Speaker 1: because they are granted the same righteous people, they are 237 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:16,440 Speaker 1: allowed to lie under the uh fourth Amendment first freedom 238 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:20,880 Speaker 1: of speech. Yeah, so the sadvertising, you can't be sued 239 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 1: for it because you're allowed to lie because your corporation 240 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 1: and an artificial person didn't didn't really hold water though 241 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 1: it didn't and uh, but no one ever ruled on it. Well, 242 00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:34,040 Speaker 1: it's because they settled. Nike settle smartly. Yeah, and so 243 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:36,320 Speaker 1: they I think showed out like fifteen million or something 244 00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 1: like that. It's actually just one point five unless you're 245 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:41,880 Speaker 1: decimal point was off. It's terrible. Um, well it did 246 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:46,200 Speaker 1: go to some sort of labor protection group. One point 247 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:47,720 Speaker 1: five million. You know, that's not a lot. It's not 248 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:50,360 Speaker 1: although that will buy you a couple of houses in Malaysia, 249 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 1: I imagine. Um, But the the the fact is that 250 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:57,360 Speaker 1: still the jury is still out whether or not a 251 00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 1: corporation can lie the fact that. But that's a how 252 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 1: this whole thing has been established over time, it's been 253 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:07,080 Speaker 1: kind of um whittled away and added to and taken 254 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:11,120 Speaker 1: from the the The I guess happy ending to this 255 00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 1: story is Nike was finally put in such a bad 256 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:19,960 Speaker 1: light that they wrote a lengthy report on the working 257 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:23,920 Speaker 1: conditions of their factories, all of them, and basically, you know, 258 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:27,560 Speaker 1: self reported that they were mistreating their workers overseas and 259 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 1: clean up their acts. So yeah, freedom, freedom of speech 260 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:34,320 Speaker 1: goes both ways. And in our ligitious society, it's good 261 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:37,240 Speaker 1: to have good lawyers if corporations of the same rights 262 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 1: as you. It's a shame it took that kind of 263 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:42,720 Speaker 1: action though, for Nike to to realize that, you know, 264 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 1: the greed that was going on. That's just my opinion. 265 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:49,440 Speaker 1: I agree with you. I don't know who wouldn't. Well, 266 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:53,080 Speaker 1: thanks for listening. Go tell everybody that all corporations have 267 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:56,600 Speaker 1: the same constitutional protections of you. Just do it. If 268 00:15:56,640 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 1: they exactly and if they don't now they soon will. Well. 269 00:15:59,880 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 1: You can read all about corporations having the same rights 270 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 1: as you by just typing in a few magic keywords 271 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:10,920 Speaker 1: in our search bar at how stuff works dot com. 272 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:13,480 Speaker 1: For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit 273 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:16,760 Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com. Let us know what you think. 274 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:22,480 Speaker 1: Send an email to podcast at how stuff works dot com.