WEBVTT - Curtis Tyrrell 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.840 I miss the green. For example, I'm already upset. When 0:00:02.840 --> 0:00:04.960 I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset. 0:00:05.040 --> 0:00:07.000 And when I find my ball in a fried egg, 0:00:07.240 --> 0:00:11.160 Friday Egg, the dreaded Friday Egg, Friday Frida Egg, Frida Egg, 0:00:11.200 --> 0:00:12.160 bride Egg Lie. 0:00:11.960 --> 0:00:14.120 I'm about ready to run off of thelf course. 0:00:39.400 --> 0:00:41.920 Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome back to another edition of the 0:00:41.960 --> 0:00:47.360 Friday Egg Podcast. Today, I'm joined by Madina Superintendent, head 0:00:47.360 --> 0:00:48.960 of Head of Grounds. 0:00:48.800 --> 0:00:51.000 Director of golf Course Operations. 0:00:50.880 --> 0:00:56.200 Specific Director of golf Course Operations, Curtis Tyrrelle Curtis, Welcome. 0:00:55.920 --> 0:00:58.280 On, Thank you, Andy, appreciate the opportunity. 0:00:58.560 --> 0:01:01.680 Hey, it's a it's a I been meaning to do this. 0:01:02.280 --> 0:01:04.600 You know, I think you've got a very interesting story. 0:01:04.680 --> 0:01:11.640 You've got a first background between you know, multiple renovations 0:01:11.640 --> 0:01:16.160 out here, multiple major events. You know, one of the 0:01:16.160 --> 0:01:18.920 biggest golf you manage, one of the biggest golf facilities 0:01:19.160 --> 0:01:23.520 of you know, that's in the United States. And I 0:01:23.640 --> 0:01:25.800 think a great way to start would be like, how'd 0:01:25.800 --> 0:01:26.360 you get here? 0:01:27.200 --> 0:01:28.720 Oh? Yeah, it's been a wild ride. 0:01:28.720 --> 0:01:33.640 I'm originally from Maryland and I graduated from Elon University, 0:01:33.720 --> 0:01:36.800 North Carolina. With a degree in history, and I had 0:01:36.840 --> 0:01:39.640 worked on the golf courses, you know, through high school 0:01:39.680 --> 0:01:41.959 and college a couple of summers. But when I got 0:01:41.959 --> 0:01:44.319 out of college, I went back home and I was 0:01:44.360 --> 0:01:46.800 thinking about going to grad school for history and went 0:01:46.840 --> 0:01:49.200 back to work on the golf course while I was 0:01:49.200 --> 0:01:53.920 figuring that out, and fell in love with it because 0:01:53.920 --> 0:01:56.480 once once we got through the summer and I graduated 0:01:56.520 --> 0:01:58.320 from a weed eat or something a little bit more 0:01:58.360 --> 0:02:02.080 important in real life, you know, really more of the 0:02:02.080 --> 0:02:07.800 inner workings of golf course maintenance in agronomy through just 0:02:07.840 --> 0:02:10.880 a fantastic mentor by the name of Mike Evans back 0:02:10.919 --> 0:02:14.840 in at the country club of Woodmore in Mitchellville, Maryland, 0:02:15.120 --> 0:02:15.920 I fell in love with it. 0:02:16.000 --> 0:02:18.560 Is that the place Obama was that Woodmont? 0:02:18.680 --> 0:02:21.680 That was Woodmont? Yeah, that's Woodmont not too far away. 0:02:21.800 --> 0:02:26.280 But yeah. So a couple of years later, I went back. 0:02:26.200 --> 0:02:28.920 To Penn State and enrolled in their a two year 0:02:28.960 --> 0:02:32.920 turf grass management program, and then you know, the just 0:02:32.960 --> 0:02:35.480 took off. I felt obviously, I said, already I fell 0:02:35.520 --> 0:02:37.040 in love with it. I mean it was just a 0:02:37.280 --> 0:02:41.040 Penn State was a great environment, really competitive. In the 0:02:41.080 --> 0:02:44.000 early nineties when I was there. You know, there was 0:02:44.040 --> 0:02:46.400 twenty four kids in our class, and Michigan State had 0:02:46.400 --> 0:02:49.400 a big class and it was really you know, a 0:02:49.440 --> 0:02:53.080 hot career path and things, so you had to, you know, 0:02:53.200 --> 0:02:55.560 to compete. Plus, you know, being at a place like 0:02:55.600 --> 0:02:59.720 Penn State, you felt like a star basketball recruit in 0:02:59.760 --> 0:03:02.960 high school. I mean you had Augustine National, Cypress Point, 0:03:03.120 --> 0:03:05.800 Cherry Hills, Mary and all these clubs wanted you to 0:03:05.800 --> 0:03:08.080 come work there, and it was like, man, I just 0:03:08.080 --> 0:03:11.079 felt like, you know, this is incredible. It felt like 0:03:11.120 --> 0:03:14.160 a big cheese And I had just a great experience there. 0:03:14.800 --> 0:03:19.360 Did my internship at Cherry Hills in Colorado. And that 0:03:19.560 --> 0:03:22.880 experience of kind of getting off the East coast out west, 0:03:24.000 --> 0:03:27.720 learning a ton about golf out there, a ton about 0:03:27.720 --> 0:03:32.840 golf courses out there. I really solidified my bug to 0:03:32.919 --> 0:03:33.960 kind of travel. 0:03:33.680 --> 0:03:34.400 With the industry. 0:03:34.400 --> 0:03:36.040 And that was something I really liked about it at 0:03:36.040 --> 0:03:38.800 the time. I mean, golf was getting built all over 0:03:38.840 --> 0:03:40.840 the world, and I saw it as a way to 0:03:40.880 --> 0:03:43.560 see the world and do something I love. And so 0:03:44.080 --> 0:03:48.000 when I graduated, I went out to work for my mentor, 0:03:48.080 --> 0:03:48.720 Mike Evans. 0:03:48.760 --> 0:03:50.760 His mentor guy by name of Virgil. 0:03:50.560 --> 0:03:55.120 Robinson at PGA West in Lakana, California, and at the 0:03:55.200 --> 0:03:59.320 time they had just finished the fifth course there, and 0:03:59.320 --> 0:04:02.880 I think there's an eighth there now, which was the 0:04:02.880 --> 0:04:05.800 Wes's Cough Course. So I went out there as an 0:04:05.800 --> 0:04:09.960 assistant superintendent and worked on the Weiss Colf Private, the 0:04:10.000 --> 0:04:13.120 Nicholas Private, the Palmer Private, did a little bit of 0:04:13.120 --> 0:04:16.560 time on the Stadium Resort course, and kind of worked 0:04:16.720 --> 0:04:20.800 around that property for a year. When there was some 0:04:20.920 --> 0:04:25.640 change in ownership and Virgil moved on and I had 0:04:25.640 --> 0:04:30.360 the opportunity to move Desert Mountain in Scottsdale, and now 0:04:30.360 --> 0:04:31.960 I was eager to do that. I knew a little 0:04:31.960 --> 0:04:35.880 bit about that facility from being out west, and I 0:04:35.920 --> 0:04:39.520 knew they had a senior major of the tradition and 0:04:39.560 --> 0:04:42.520 they were building golf courses. And the guy that I 0:04:42.560 --> 0:04:43.880 was going to go work for by the name of 0:04:43.880 --> 0:04:46.840 Seawan Emerson, who is in my role there. He's the 0:04:46.880 --> 0:04:48.960 director of a Grontomi there and he's still there today. 0:04:50.640 --> 0:04:54.599 You know, he was somebody that I really was learning 0:04:54.600 --> 0:04:57.240 a ton from and was eager to learn more from. 0:04:57.279 --> 0:05:00.200 So you know, I jumped over there and spent three 0:05:00.279 --> 0:05:02.840 years and working there and kind of moving up the 0:05:02.960 --> 0:05:06.920 ranks from assistants the course superintendent there and we did 0:05:06.960 --> 0:05:11.320 three three traditions, built the Cherchawa course, rebuilt all the 0:05:11.360 --> 0:05:13.800 greens on the Dronama course, and the Coaches Course while 0:05:13.800 --> 0:05:16.119 I was there, and that's when I got my first 0:05:16.120 --> 0:05:18.039 taste of golf course construction. 0:05:18.760 --> 0:05:22.080 And at the time we were Ford and went and 0:05:22.440 --> 0:05:22.800 went to. 0:05:22.800 --> 0:05:27.080 Five courses, so multiple course facility, golf course construction, tournament experience, 0:05:27.800 --> 0:05:32.839 desert agronomy, you know, cool season grasses, warm season grasses. 0:05:33.200 --> 0:05:37.159 I mean it was it was awesome, and you know, 0:05:37.200 --> 0:05:41.320 it's just a wonderful experience. And after three years, I 0:05:41.800 --> 0:05:44.279 got a job in Vegas and I went up to 0:05:44.960 --> 0:05:46.400 Anthem Country Club. 0:05:46.880 --> 0:05:49.880 All over Yeah, no, it was. It was a wild. 0:05:49.880 --> 0:05:53.160 Desert, yeah, I was, I know. 0:05:53.200 --> 0:05:54.919 I mean when I was out there, I was like, 0:05:54.960 --> 0:05:56.480 I couldn't wait to get out of there because it's 0:05:56.520 --> 0:05:58.760 so hot every summer, and I just kept saying, I'm 0:05:58.760 --> 0:06:00.440 never going to do another summer in the day. They 0:06:00.480 --> 0:06:03.040 just kept coming, you know, I just like I couldn't 0:06:03.080 --> 0:06:05.560 get out of there. But they were all great experiences. 0:06:05.600 --> 0:06:10.240 And Anthem was Keith Foster designed eighteen hole private club 0:06:10.880 --> 0:06:15.400 which was owned by a developer, and when they sold 0:06:15.400 --> 0:06:21.640 out the community, they sold the club to another developer 0:06:21.640 --> 0:06:25.159 who brought in Trutan Golf. And so about halfway through 0:06:25.200 --> 0:06:28.440 my time there, Trutan Golf came in and was overseeing 0:06:28.480 --> 0:06:31.159 the management of it. And at that time they were 0:06:31.279 --> 0:06:34.720 just just growing like crazy and their portfolio, they were 0:06:34.720 --> 0:06:37.719 picking up some really great facilities. And I expressed my 0:06:37.800 --> 0:06:39.760 interest to wanting to get back to the East Coast 0:06:39.800 --> 0:06:43.760 where I'm from. My wife's from New England, had gotten 0:06:43.760 --> 0:06:47.360 married through my time in the Desert, and one day 0:06:47.360 --> 0:06:49.920 they called me up and we had had a lot 0:06:49.960 --> 0:06:52.640 of success in Anthem and had won some awards within 0:06:52.680 --> 0:06:57.359 the organization, and they called me up and said, how 0:06:57.400 --> 0:06:59.479 would you like to go build thirty six holes in 0:06:59.520 --> 0:07:00.880 Connecticut with Reeese Jones? 0:07:00.920 --> 0:07:04.040 And I'm like, of course, like when do we go? 0:07:04.160 --> 0:07:04.280 You know? 0:07:04.320 --> 0:07:06.120 And they're like, well, actually, you know, can you be 0:07:06.160 --> 0:07:09.600 there Friday and meet the owners? And I'm like okay. 0:07:09.880 --> 0:07:14.240 So I flew out to huh Lake of Isles, which 0:07:14.280 --> 0:07:19.560 is a new property was about to be built in 0:07:19.880 --> 0:07:22.800 southeastern Connecticut right next to Long Island Sound, and it 0:07:22.840 --> 0:07:24.920 was associated with the Fox With Casino, and so it 0:07:24.960 --> 0:07:28.440 was owned by the Native American tribe that ran that casino, 0:07:28.480 --> 0:07:31.640 and they're about to build a sturdy six hole facility 0:07:31.680 --> 0:07:34.800 around a ninety acre lake on an old boy scout camp. 0:07:35.520 --> 0:07:39.280 And we were looking at two years of construction and 0:07:40.320 --> 0:07:41.679 working with Reese and. 0:07:43.040 --> 0:07:47.280 So ultimately the owday. 0:07:45.800 --> 0:07:48.520 Oh it was yeah, yeah, it was. It was. 0:07:48.600 --> 0:07:50.720 It was he was turning in Vernon. 0:07:50.920 --> 0:07:52.560 He was turning in Vernon, and. 0:07:54.000 --> 0:07:56.240 You know, so I got that job and went over there, 0:07:56.320 --> 0:07:57.680 and I mean I was there when we cut the 0:07:57.720 --> 0:07:59.960 first tree out of there and carved these two golf 0:08:00.080 --> 0:08:04.400 courses over over two years, I mean two years with 0:08:04.560 --> 0:08:06.880 no golfers, building two golf courses. I mean it was 0:08:06.960 --> 0:08:10.000 like Superintendent's dream, you know. I mean we were just 0:08:10.200 --> 0:08:13.360 having a ball and it was a big project. A 0:08:13.400 --> 0:08:18.160 lot of infrastructure, a ton of ledge. We I've never 0:08:18.640 --> 0:08:21.600 been around ever since before then or since then, so 0:08:21.680 --> 0:08:24.760 much dynamite. I mean, we blasted more rock to build 0:08:24.760 --> 0:08:27.000 those golf courses and uh, you know, it was really 0:08:27.080 --> 0:08:31.840 an engineering and and uh golf course construction feet and 0:08:32.000 --> 0:08:35.839 recently because you know, money and uh you know, not 0:08:35.960 --> 0:08:36.960 a single home on it. 0:08:37.080 --> 0:08:38.360 You can't see one hole from. 0:08:38.280 --> 0:08:40.760 The next, you know, this classic uh you know that 0:08:40.760 --> 0:08:43.920 that era's classic. Uh you know, golf course that winds 0:08:43.960 --> 0:08:46.600 through the woods and and you really you're really out 0:08:46.600 --> 0:08:49.200 there on your own. And Reese just did a fantastic 0:08:49.320 --> 0:08:54.120 job two championship designs up there, and uh, you know, 0:08:54.280 --> 0:08:57.280 loved it, stayed on, we opened it up, was managed 0:08:57.320 --> 0:09:00.920 it for three years after we finished building it. And 0:09:00.920 --> 0:09:02.720 then one day I got a call from a firm 0:09:02.760 --> 0:09:06.360 that was looking for to play somebody in this position here, 0:09:06.440 --> 0:09:09.520 and uh yeah, that was another call kind of like, hey, 0:09:09.559 --> 0:09:12.720 what do you think about Medinah Country Club? You know, 0:09:12.880 --> 0:09:14.959 they're going to hold the Ryder Cup and they want 0:09:15.000 --> 0:09:16.200 to do some work in their courses. 0:09:16.200 --> 0:09:19.079 And I'm like, you know, let's go. 0:09:19.200 --> 0:09:22.640 You know, you know, I was super excited, and so 0:09:22.720 --> 0:09:26.480 I interviewed for the position and got it, and you know, 0:09:26.520 --> 0:09:29.040 it was a you know, big moment in my life. 0:09:29.040 --> 0:09:31.760 Man. I was super pumped, you know, to come to 0:09:31.800 --> 0:09:32.400 a place like this. 0:09:33.040 --> 0:09:37.240 Yeah, I mean it's it's a heck of a facility. 0:09:37.720 --> 0:09:41.840 Not many bigger than this one. I mean the rounds 0:09:41.840 --> 0:09:46.520 per year just huge, and I mean it's three drastically 0:09:46.559 --> 0:09:48.839 different golf courses now too, which we'll get to. You 0:09:48.920 --> 0:09:53.800 aut curious with your experience at Lake the Lake the isles, 0:09:54.800 --> 0:09:57.640 how like seeing it grow in for three years? I 0:09:57.679 --> 0:10:01.040 mean you're so you're there five total? Yeah, right, Like 0:10:01.559 --> 0:10:05.000 I've always I'm always wondering about like maturation and like 0:10:05.200 --> 0:10:08.280 you know, like how long you know, should somebody like 0:10:08.400 --> 0:10:11.480 really give a course to really take a hold of 0:10:11.520 --> 0:10:14.680 It's like, you know, true identity is it? Is it 0:10:14.720 --> 0:10:17.760 three years, five years, ten years, one year? Like you 0:10:17.800 --> 0:10:19.040 know or do you not even know? 0:10:19.640 --> 0:10:20.760 You know what? Hell man? 0:10:20.840 --> 0:10:24.880 It's it really depends on on the site and any 0:10:24.960 --> 0:10:27.360 specific conditions that are going on there, and then the 0:10:27.400 --> 0:10:28.120 business model. 0:10:28.559 --> 0:10:28.800 You know. 0:10:28.920 --> 0:10:31.200 I mean, if if you're gonna if this place is 0:10:31.240 --> 0:10:35.679 going to give played aggressively, it's gonna mature differently. 0:10:35.280 --> 0:10:36.679 Than one that isn't. 0:10:36.960 --> 0:10:39.640 And you know, in some in some cases, it could 0:10:39.679 --> 0:10:44.079 force the maturation to come forward sooner, right because you 0:10:44.160 --> 0:10:47.040 got to you got to make certain adjustments and perform 0:10:47.120 --> 0:10:50.640 certain practices to be able to handle all that traffic. 0:10:50.720 --> 0:10:53.200 But you know, I think in general, you've you know, 0:10:53.320 --> 0:10:56.080 at least people always said it's about three years, and 0:10:56.320 --> 0:10:59.840 I think that that is definitely a good benchmark in time. 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:02.160 I mean, the day that you open the golf course. 0:11:02.160 --> 0:11:05.440 I mean, let's just say that you were given enough 0:11:05.480 --> 0:11:08.080 time to grow it in. And like here, these projects 0:11:08.120 --> 0:11:10.920 that we did, we used basically a full calendar year 0:11:10.960 --> 0:11:13.199 for the time we planted until the time. 0:11:13.040 --> 0:11:13.960 We opened them. 0:11:14.040 --> 0:11:16.920 Roughly a little less in some holes than others, but 0:11:17.760 --> 0:11:19.520 you're given enough time to grow it in. I mean, 0:11:19.559 --> 0:11:22.160 it's really it's really sharp when you open it up. 0:11:22.360 --> 0:11:26.760 But there's a real specific time frame that is the 0:11:26.800 --> 0:11:33.040 construction maintenance activities to the maintenance activities of operating it 0:11:33.120 --> 0:11:37.160 where you learn a ton. I mean, you see your mowerware, 0:11:37.200 --> 0:11:41.479 you see your cart and player, where you see irrigation 0:11:41.720 --> 0:11:45.560 challenges and adjustments, You see drainage issues which last forever. 0:11:46.640 --> 0:11:49.280 You know, you start to learn more about the impacts 0:11:49.320 --> 0:11:52.720 of shade and other things air movement. So I mean 0:11:52.760 --> 0:11:55.000 there's a period of time that first year to year 0:11:55.000 --> 0:11:57.520 and a half where you're learning a lot, and you 0:11:57.600 --> 0:11:59.720 got to be really attentive and you can't take your 0:11:59.760 --> 0:12:01.360 eye the ball, or all of a sudden, you know, 0:12:02.040 --> 0:12:04.560 stuff just thins out on you or you know, next thing, 0:12:04.600 --> 0:12:07.200 you know, you got issues. But if you're looking for 0:12:07.240 --> 0:12:09.800 that and you treat it in a spot specific way 0:12:10.640 --> 0:12:13.120 and you expect to have to find these things you 0:12:13.160 --> 0:12:15.600 can get in front of them. Then you know, year 0:12:15.679 --> 0:12:17.959 year and a half, you've you've found all those, You've 0:12:18.000 --> 0:12:22.000 adjusted your maintenance accordingly, and next thing you know, the 0:12:22.040 --> 0:12:24.560 turf is settled down and you're working more on that 0:12:24.600 --> 0:12:27.680 periphery tie in stuff that really, I think is what 0:12:27.840 --> 0:12:30.240 most people disregard in terms of the maturation. 0:12:30.280 --> 0:12:31.880 I mean, the turf is really. 0:12:31.800 --> 0:12:34.000 High quality all the time, and like I said, you 0:12:34.040 --> 0:12:36.120 got to learn how to maintain it. But it's that 0:12:36.240 --> 0:12:40.600 periphery stuff, the tie in things that need time to 0:12:40.640 --> 0:12:43.160 mature and really bring the whole course together. 0:12:43.480 --> 0:12:46.800 I mean those the small little details are like the 0:12:46.880 --> 0:12:50.480 things that seem I mean, I might look at courses 0:12:50.520 --> 0:12:52.679 a little bit different than your average show, but like 0:12:53.040 --> 0:12:56.440 you know, the walks from teas to greens, the transitions, 0:12:56.600 --> 0:12:59.880 the rough lines and the cut lines, like those little 0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:03.679 small details like the bunker lines, the you know, the 0:13:03.720 --> 0:13:06.240 mow into the bunker lines. Like that's the thing I mean, 0:13:06.360 --> 0:13:11.160 of course, to the newly restored course too, like the 0:13:11.200 --> 0:13:14.200 way you guys have the fairways cut into the bunkers 0:13:14.240 --> 0:13:17.040 and the edges around the greens or I mean, they're incredible, 0:13:18.240 --> 0:13:20.560 so in terms of you know, is it is it 0:13:20.600 --> 0:13:23.640 frustrating because I feel like, you know, everybody wants to push, 0:13:23.800 --> 0:13:27.600 especially with new courses and using Medina as an example, 0:13:27.640 --> 0:13:29.959 I bet members are chomping the bit to get out 0:13:29.960 --> 0:13:32.240 there because they can see it and they're you know, like, 0:13:32.840 --> 0:13:34.480 how hard is it to keep them at bay? 0:13:34.559 --> 0:13:35.600 But oh it's tough. 0:13:35.640 --> 0:13:38.800 It's there's a lot of pressure, and you know, for 0:13:38.960 --> 0:13:41.600 us here at Madina, we we learned the hard way. So, 0:13:42.000 --> 0:13:45.360 you know, the Course three project, while we while I 0:13:45.520 --> 0:13:48.000 was new and I outlined what I felt like we needed, 0:13:48.440 --> 0:13:50.840 you know, there was pressure and we we caved a 0:13:50.840 --> 0:13:52.920 little bit and we got out there too soon, and 0:13:52.960 --> 0:13:54.960 it made the grow in a little longer than it 0:13:55.000 --> 0:13:56.880 needed to be because we were running a ton of 0:13:57.000 --> 0:13:59.959 rounds through it, and uh, it was it was more challenging. 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:05.080 But learning from that experience, both the members and me 0:14:05.559 --> 0:14:09.040 on how to manage and guide the members on that regard. 0:14:10.040 --> 0:14:12.840 In the second project, we stuck. We stuck firm with 0:14:12.880 --> 0:14:15.560 what we knew we needed and it really came out 0:14:15.760 --> 0:14:18.960 significantly different than the first one. And so by the 0:14:18.960 --> 0:14:21.600 time we got to course to everybody was on board. 0:14:21.640 --> 0:14:23.840 You know, there's no more convincing on the amount of 0:14:23.840 --> 0:14:26.000 time that we needed and the right way to do it, 0:14:26.080 --> 0:14:29.400 and from everything from scope, you know, construction scope and 0:14:29.800 --> 0:14:32.160 growing scope to time required. 0:14:32.720 --> 0:14:34.520 We were all on the same page and it's worked 0:14:34.520 --> 0:14:35.200 out real well. 0:14:35.840 --> 0:14:40.080 So with the you know, three separate projects. As you've 0:14:40.280 --> 0:14:42.720 you know, grown here and you've become more familiar with 0:14:42.760 --> 0:14:45.480 the membership and they've become more familiar with you, how 0:14:45.520 --> 0:14:48.680 much has your role changed? Like when you know, you're 0:14:48.720 --> 0:14:51.040 planning these things out and you know, whether it be 0:14:51.120 --> 0:14:54.920 interviewing architects or you know, looking at the plans and 0:14:54.920 --> 0:14:57.120 figuring out timelines, Like, how much has it changed from 0:14:57.160 --> 0:15:00.480 when you were the new guy to you know, most recently, 0:15:00.560 --> 0:15:03.400 you know too when you see you did three then 0:15:03.560 --> 0:15:06.640 to number two, number one with Tom Doak, and then 0:15:06.680 --> 0:15:09.960 to number two again with Reese and you know, I 0:15:10.000 --> 0:15:12.360 know you were like heavily involved in the Green Schomy 0:15:12.560 --> 0:15:14.760 was heavily involved with that. But you know, like, how 0:15:14.880 --> 0:15:18.240 how's the kind of the role and then changed And 0:15:18.440 --> 0:15:20.040 this is the longest question of all times. 0:15:20.080 --> 0:15:22.880 No, I mean, you. 0:15:22.840 --> 0:15:25.200 Know what's interesting about that question is that my role 0:15:25.240 --> 0:15:27.480 has really been the same from the beginning, but their 0:15:27.520 --> 0:15:31.720 confidence level and me has grown. And you know, so 0:15:31.920 --> 0:15:34.360 when I got here, you know, the leaders of the 0:15:34.400 --> 0:15:37.480 club at that time, you know, we're very specifical and 0:15:37.600 --> 0:15:41.240 wanting to take on these projects and needing an expert 0:15:41.680 --> 0:15:44.640 with the experience to both run a multi course facility 0:15:44.880 --> 0:15:49.520 prep for a big tournament, but also develop and manage 0:15:49.640 --> 0:15:54.440 and execute these projects. And so they empowered me right 0:15:54.440 --> 0:15:57.200 from from the start. Now, obviously what I was bringing 0:15:57.240 --> 0:16:00.560 to the club was was all kinds of new stuff, 0:16:00.600 --> 0:16:03.080 you know, like their idea of what they wanted to do, 0:16:03.200 --> 0:16:06.440 and then me effectively translating that into terms they can 0:16:06.600 --> 0:16:09.680 understand and time frames and dollars and all these things. 0:16:10.040 --> 0:16:11.400 That was the hard part. 0:16:11.320 --> 0:16:14.240 Was was was was explaining to that to them and 0:16:14.360 --> 0:16:18.720 and making that clear and and and uh because it 0:16:18.760 --> 0:16:24.480 wasn't necessarily what they expected. But you know, uh, what's 0:16:24.520 --> 0:16:28.520 been great is they've continued to put their confidence me 0:16:28.880 --> 0:16:31.760 in me and allow me to lead really on those 0:16:31.800 --> 0:16:34.880 projects end and and they've just gotten easier, you know, 0:16:34.960 --> 0:16:37.320 I mean, like going back to the you know, Reese 0:16:37.400 --> 0:16:40.800 was already uh, you know here and and and working 0:16:40.800 --> 0:16:43.440 with Madina for a long time. But when I arrived, 0:16:43.680 --> 0:16:47.040 but when we went with with looking for somebody to do. 0:16:47.240 --> 0:16:50.200 Course one, you know, that was that was my role. 0:16:50.080 --> 0:16:52.560 To assemble different people to reach out to the various 0:16:53.040 --> 0:16:55.960 architects out there that they wanted to talk to, set 0:16:56.040 --> 0:16:59.480 up the meetings, bring the engineers in, make sure that 0:16:59.520 --> 0:17:03.440 those two parties could collaborate get the permitting process going. 0:17:03.560 --> 0:17:08.359 And you know, it's it's a unique process. And I've 0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:10.639 been very fortunate to work for for the members of 0:17:10.680 --> 0:17:14.280 Madonna and a very blessed to have their confidence to 0:17:14.280 --> 0:17:15.880 be able to do it. 0:17:15.880 --> 0:17:18.280 It's been a really great experience. 0:17:19.400 --> 0:17:24.240 So, you know, I think anybody that knows a little 0:17:24.280 --> 0:17:27.920 bit about architects would say that recent Tom or on 0:17:28.200 --> 0:17:30.800 a little bit on the other ends of the spectrum. 0:17:31.280 --> 0:17:34.880 So what's it like to you know, work with each 0:17:34.920 --> 0:17:37.399 of them? You know, and what are the you know, 0:17:37.440 --> 0:17:40.800 the differences? And then is there anything that they do similar? 0:17:42.320 --> 0:17:43.920 And you know kind of what have you learned from 0:17:43.920 --> 0:17:44.480 each of them? 0:17:44.880 --> 0:17:47.879 You know, It's funny, Andy is I've been waiting for 0:17:47.920 --> 0:17:51.040 somebody to ask me that question. I've I've had a 0:17:51.080 --> 0:17:54.639 lot of different interviews or you know, conversations, and and 0:17:54.680 --> 0:17:57.800 nobody who's and I've been waiting for that question, and 0:17:57.920 --> 0:18:03.159 trying to prepare for it for many years. 0:18:03.359 --> 0:18:04.760 It's a great question. You know. 0:18:04.800 --> 0:18:07.400 What's what's interesting is that they are they are very 0:18:07.440 --> 0:18:14.680 different people personality wise, but they they are both. When 0:18:14.720 --> 0:18:19.720 when you when you understand that they're both world class, 0:18:20.600 --> 0:18:24.639 top tier golf course architects, you start to understand the similarities. 0:18:24.880 --> 0:18:27.679 And what I mean is the way they approach a 0:18:27.720 --> 0:18:31.239 project like I mean Tom's approach to a project and 0:18:31.400 --> 0:18:36.160 his finished project product is completely different necessarily than than 0:18:36.240 --> 0:18:37.679 than Reese's finished product. 0:18:37.960 --> 0:18:39.480 But you know, they both have to. 0:18:39.440 --> 0:18:46.800 Work through the same pathway of logistics, practicality, engineering, floodplain, 0:18:47.320 --> 0:18:50.240 you know, drainage, all these things they're all in the 0:18:50.280 --> 0:18:52.360 same play for each of these guys, right, so they 0:18:52.359 --> 0:18:54.400 both have to kind of they both have their way 0:18:54.440 --> 0:18:56.560 of working through those to get to the end result. 0:18:57.800 --> 0:19:03.000 And it's interesting to see, you know, how they do it. 0:19:04.200 --> 0:19:06.960 You know Reese, I've known Reese for for many years 0:19:07.040 --> 0:19:09.880 now and I consider him a friend and a mentor. 0:19:09.960 --> 0:19:12.080 And he really took me under his wing at the 0:19:12.160 --> 0:19:17.320 Lake of Isles and taught me, you know, everything that 0:19:17.440 --> 0:19:18.680 I know to get started. 0:19:19.280 --> 0:19:20.920 And then when I met Tom. 0:19:20.640 --> 0:19:25.439 It really just opened my eyes to uh, you know, 0:19:26.880 --> 0:19:30.080 you know, just somebody that was completely different personality wise, 0:19:30.160 --> 0:19:35.480 but and stylistically artistically what he would create, you know, 0:19:35.520 --> 0:19:40.439 and watching what he did it out there, you know, 0:19:40.560 --> 0:19:43.800 really blew my mind and opened it to a whole 0:19:43.840 --> 0:19:45.119 new level of architecture. 0:19:45.119 --> 0:19:46.359 And I think it really helped. 0:19:46.840 --> 0:19:50.040 Uh, those experiences really helped me be play my role 0:19:50.080 --> 0:19:52.439 when it came to the two project. But you know, 0:19:53.720 --> 0:19:57.600 they both really respect each other. Reese coming from a 0:19:57.640 --> 0:20:00.399 completely different era and a different kind of way up 0:20:00.440 --> 0:20:03.399 the line than Tom. But like I said, you know, 0:20:04.600 --> 0:20:09.639 managing them as partners and and as knowing them as people, 0:20:10.280 --> 0:20:15.080 you know, they're they're both world class and and it's 0:20:15.200 --> 0:20:17.760 really been great for Madonna to have both of those 0:20:18.400 --> 0:20:20.240 guys have such great products out here. 0:20:20.520 --> 0:20:25.160 It's i mean, like completely different philosophies of design and 0:20:25.200 --> 0:20:29.840 then also just the way it's implemented. But both of them, 0:20:30.040 --> 0:20:34.000 you know, you can't the client satisfaction and the you know, 0:20:34.040 --> 0:20:37.600 the true professionals of like architecture like you know where 0:20:37.640 --> 0:20:41.080 they you know, Versus if you went with like a 0:20:41.119 --> 0:20:45.280 younger architect like like the logistics stuff, probably not as 0:20:45.359 --> 0:20:50.640 smooth in terms of you know, so Reese's a design 0:20:50.920 --> 0:20:56.600 contract guy in your role, what are kind of the 0:20:56.640 --> 0:21:01.280 benefits of the design contract and and the benefits of 0:21:01.359 --> 0:21:05.640 design build, Like, would you prefer one or the other? 0:21:06.080 --> 0:21:08.719 Did you learn more from one or the other? You know, 0:21:08.720 --> 0:21:12.560 you've been in more design contract situations. But I'm kind 0:21:12.560 --> 0:21:15.920 of curious that, you know, looking at each each philosophy. 0:21:15.960 --> 0:21:19.639 You know, there is kind of a you know, schism 0:21:19.920 --> 0:21:23.280 in architecture with these two philosophies as design builds become 0:21:23.359 --> 0:21:27.080 so much more popular. I'm curious having seen both in action, what. 0:21:27.200 --> 0:21:29.240 The sure sure? You know? 0:21:29.280 --> 0:21:31.280 And I think I think just to go back before 0:21:31.320 --> 0:21:34.160 I dive into that one too. You know, I don't 0:21:34.200 --> 0:21:41.720 think Reece gets enough credit in today's uh critiques of 0:21:41.840 --> 0:21:45.720 architects for his his management. 0:21:45.280 --> 0:21:46.240 And use of the land. 0:21:46.520 --> 0:21:49.960 You know, I think I think he gets classified into 0:21:50.000 --> 0:21:52.760 a group of architects that came up through that ear 0:21:52.800 --> 0:21:55.080 of mass building, you know, when when they were in 0:21:55.160 --> 0:21:57.159 business and they just had so many projects and it 0:21:57.240 --> 0:21:59.919 had to be contract and there was dis engineering and 0:22:00.400 --> 0:22:03.560 land plan or routings and all these things. And I think, 0:22:03.720 --> 0:22:06.560 you know, he's kind of put in that bucket. But yet, 0:22:07.080 --> 0:22:10.720 you know, I mean he's looking at it from the 0:22:10.800 --> 0:22:14.119 most practical standpoint and the most minimalistic standpoint that he 0:22:14.200 --> 0:22:16.960 can as well. You know, people just think that they think, oh, 0:22:17.040 --> 0:22:19.040 I'm just going to pull those all this and move 0:22:19.080 --> 0:22:22.320 all this over here. You know, you get that sense 0:22:22.359 --> 0:22:26.159 that people don't appreciate his ability to see it that way. 0:22:26.840 --> 0:22:31.600 Whereas Tom Man, I mean you think about the places 0:22:31.640 --> 0:22:33.800 and what he's done in the sights that he's worked with. 0:22:34.640 --> 0:22:37.480 You know, he's come up and really wrote his own pathway. 0:22:37.560 --> 0:22:41.240 I mean, he's carved his own niche to become who 0:22:41.240 --> 0:22:44.879 he is, which is one of the most regarded and 0:22:44.960 --> 0:22:49.440 so you know, it's two totally different roads to the end. 0:22:49.640 --> 0:22:53.320 But if that makes sense, I don't know if I'm. 0:22:52.760 --> 0:22:57.600 Rambling, But you know, when we did Course one with Tom, 0:22:57.880 --> 0:23:00.560 it was a hybrid of the contract design build, so 0:23:00.840 --> 0:23:04.040 Brian Schneider was on site and Brian shaped all of 0:23:04.040 --> 0:23:08.200 the key features, so the greens bunkers, but we also 0:23:08.359 --> 0:23:11.119 had Wadsworth Golf on site and they did a lot 0:23:11.160 --> 0:23:13.760 of the mass earth moving. And what I mean is 0:23:13.960 --> 0:23:17.080 one third of that project with Storm Draine and floodplay improvements, 0:23:17.080 --> 0:23:18.920 so we had a lot of cuts, we had a 0:23:18.960 --> 0:23:22.960 lot of pipe going in to get water off that place. 0:23:23.040 --> 0:23:25.679 I mean, this is a four square mile watershed that 0:23:26.000 --> 0:23:28.080 when it was originally built it was all farms and 0:23:28.160 --> 0:23:30.600 now it's all erbin and so I mean there's just 0:23:30.640 --> 0:23:33.680 a ton of water moving through here, and we're expected 0:23:33.720 --> 0:23:36.879 to hold a certain amount, you know, for the county 0:23:36.920 --> 0:23:40.119 and how everything works, and we needed to accentuate and 0:23:40.160 --> 0:23:44.280 improve that. So we needed somebody to help cut and 0:23:44.320 --> 0:23:45.920 move a lot of dirt. So there was a it 0:23:46.000 --> 0:23:49.560 was a real hybrid of that design build. But I 0:23:49.640 --> 0:23:52.280 tell you what, I really liked that that way of 0:23:52.280 --> 0:23:55.320 doing it. I mean Brian Brian and Eric Iverson who 0:23:55.359 --> 0:23:58.719 was also here for a little bit as well as 0:23:58.760 --> 0:24:02.520 a couple other guys had circle through here for period 0:24:02.520 --> 0:24:06.400 of time, watching their approach to it and watching their 0:24:06.720 --> 0:24:10.639 their abilities. Was that part that really just, you know, 0:24:10.840 --> 0:24:12.720 I think kind of blew the door wide open. 0:24:12.800 --> 0:24:13.040 You know. 0:24:13.920 --> 0:24:17.240 With Reese, you know at the Lake of Isles, I 0:24:17.280 --> 0:24:20.680 he had these plans, and Steve Wiser and Bryce Swanson 0:24:21.440 --> 0:24:24.119 they would they'd come up and they'd come up as 0:24:24.160 --> 0:24:28.280 often as they could, and considering where they lived and 0:24:28.359 --> 0:24:30.280 close to that project, they were up a lot. 0:24:30.440 --> 0:24:33.240 And so that was great. I got to learn a lot, but. 0:24:33.160 --> 0:24:36.720 They'd leave and they kind of after we got comfortable 0:24:36.720 --> 0:24:38.360 with each other, they'd leave it to me to make 0:24:38.400 --> 0:24:39.640 sure that when they got. 0:24:39.480 --> 0:24:41.919 Back it was done a certain way. So it was 0:24:42.000 --> 0:24:43.360 my job to kind of work with. 0:24:43.320 --> 0:24:46.800 Those shapers and say, closer to the green with this bunker, 0:24:46.880 --> 0:24:48.280 flash this higher, This. 0:24:48.160 --> 0:24:49.679 Needs to roll more, you know. 0:24:49.720 --> 0:24:53.320 So I was over there massaging what they were doing 0:24:53.480 --> 0:24:54.680 based on their direction. 0:24:55.000 --> 0:24:57.800 And you know, that was interesting because we had. 0:24:59.320 --> 0:25:03.239 Freelance contractors working through a major golf course contractor out 0:25:03.280 --> 0:25:06.200 of Montreal, and they all spoke crunch and I mean 0:25:06.240 --> 0:25:09.280 it was just a wild deal. Move it over here 0:25:09.320 --> 0:25:12.639 to Wadsworth. You know, I've gotten to know their their team, 0:25:12.720 --> 0:25:14.720 and they've done all our work here, and they've got 0:25:14.760 --> 0:25:18.479 some fantastic shapers in their own right, and they are, uh, 0:25:18.840 --> 0:25:22.480 they're really flexible and and pretty damn good. I mean, 0:25:22.880 --> 0:25:26.200 it took a little while on two to get them 0:25:26.240 --> 0:25:28.000 to come out of their comfort zone because they're so 0:25:28.119 --> 0:25:30.600 used to kind of mass building according to plans, and 0:25:30.640 --> 0:25:33.160 then I'd have to teach them that, hey, just because 0:25:34.119 --> 0:25:37.640 you know on ten out of eleven projects, you've you've 0:25:37.680 --> 0:25:40.200 done it like this, forget it. I want that whole 0:25:40.520 --> 0:25:42.560 ledge cut down and I want to be able to 0:25:42.560 --> 0:25:45.119 see through it, and it's totally different. But once I 0:25:45.320 --> 0:25:48.200 got them to understand that, boy, they'd shape it out perfectly. 0:25:48.960 --> 0:25:51.080 And they get a lot of reps. 0:25:51.560 --> 0:25:53.640 They get a lot of reps, and so they've got 0:25:53.680 --> 0:25:55.800 they've got a lot in their repertoire. But they need 0:25:56.359 --> 0:25:58.879 if if if somebody's not there to direct them to 0:25:58.960 --> 0:26:02.000 be different, they're going to kind of build that standard template, 0:26:02.480 --> 0:26:02.679 you know. 0:26:02.840 --> 0:26:04.680 And that's that's what we did, was we. 0:26:04.680 --> 0:26:07.200 Got them to break out of that mold on course 0:26:07.240 --> 0:26:10.359 too and shape completely different than they normally did. And 0:26:10.440 --> 0:26:14.919 so re Reese's involvement and Steve's involvement, you know, was 0:26:14.920 --> 0:26:17.359 was just the same where they we talk about what 0:26:17.400 --> 0:26:19.719 it would look like and then I would make sure that, 0:26:20.119 --> 0:26:24.440 you know, it was getting built that way. Whereas with Tom, 0:26:24.920 --> 0:26:27.520 you know Tom and Brian. Tom would come up, Brian 0:26:27.560 --> 0:26:30.560 would build it, you know, they'd talk about it and 0:26:30.560 --> 0:26:31.560 and Brian would. 0:26:31.280 --> 0:26:33.040 Make all all the subtle things. 0:26:33.040 --> 0:26:35.960 And then as Wadsworth came in to kind of prep 0:26:36.000 --> 0:26:37.840 it for finishing and my crew would come in to 0:26:37.920 --> 0:26:41.960 seed it, you know, Brian would be there looking over 0:26:42.119 --> 0:26:45.080 our shoulder, to make sure we didn't take anything out essentially, 0:26:45.160 --> 0:26:46.959 you know what I mean, he had it the way 0:26:47.000 --> 0:26:50.480 he wanted so in the finishing process, don't lose that ridge, 0:26:50.520 --> 0:26:54.000 don't don't don't soften that role, you know. So it 0:26:54.040 --> 0:26:58.960 was it was really cool and definitely different. But I mean, 0:27:01.040 --> 0:27:03.080 it's just a lot of fun to be able to 0:27:03.119 --> 0:27:06.639 build things the way Brian and Eric and Tom's guys 0:27:06.680 --> 0:27:10.440 can build. And if I were ever do something like that, 0:27:10.480 --> 0:27:13.600 I would probably follow that direction and try to do it, 0:27:14.040 --> 0:27:16.400 or or hire some of Wadsworth guys to work with me. 0:27:16.359 --> 0:27:16.960 And help me. 0:27:17.200 --> 0:27:18.359 Yeah, start your own firm. 0:27:18.480 --> 0:27:19.960 Yeah, because they're they're really good. 0:27:20.280 --> 0:27:24.400 It's it's it seems to me when I look at it, 0:27:24.520 --> 0:27:28.000 all parties are more aligned that way because there's no 0:27:28.240 --> 0:27:32.240 competing interest. It also seems like for the club, you've 0:27:32.240 --> 0:27:36.119 got one direct path. There's never has it have you? 0:27:36.320 --> 0:27:38.639 That's you know something I've always wondered, like, have you 0:27:38.680 --> 0:27:43.399 ever had a situation in your experience where like whether 0:27:43.720 --> 0:27:49.000 even be back at Desert Mountain, like where the contractor 0:27:49.040 --> 0:27:52.280 the designer and the club, like you know, there was 0:27:52.320 --> 0:27:57.880 like a struggle with communication. It's pretty usually pretty clear 0:27:58.000 --> 0:28:00.440 right from the from the get go, and like it's 0:28:00.600 --> 0:28:01.800 never been a big problem. 0:28:02.160 --> 0:28:05.000 Yeah, you know what it deesner't Moount. It was Jack Nicholson. 0:28:05.040 --> 0:28:07.000 He built all those courses and so he would come 0:28:07.040 --> 0:28:10.520 out and whatever he said went. You know what I mean, 0:28:10.600 --> 0:28:12.880 it was never a struggle there and and. 0:28:12.800 --> 0:28:14.600 That was that was you. 0:28:14.560 --> 0:28:17.560 Know, interesting and fun to get in the back of 0:28:17.560 --> 0:28:20.480 a pickup truck with Jack Nicholson ride to site. 0:28:20.480 --> 0:28:22.120 You know, I didn't say a word. I just listen, 0:28:22.240 --> 0:28:26.520 you know, but you know what he said went there 0:28:27.720 --> 0:28:28.080 in the. 0:28:28.119 --> 0:28:30.800 Lake of Isles was was was really from the ground up. 0:28:30.880 --> 0:28:34.280 So you know, Reese had full artistic control. I mean, 0:28:34.320 --> 0:28:37.520 he did have a budget and a project managers and 0:28:37.560 --> 0:28:40.000 things that he was accountable to. And we did run 0:28:40.040 --> 0:28:43.960 into issues, like I said, with rock and dynamite things 0:28:44.000 --> 0:28:48.120 that were big dollar things. But Reese's you know, very 0:28:48.360 --> 0:28:50.320 you know, creative and good at that kind of stuff, 0:28:50.360 --> 0:28:54.360 and he managed all that here. You know, the membership 0:28:55.120 --> 0:28:57.080 from the very first day that the president of the 0:28:57.120 --> 0:28:59.840 club that that hired me ten years ago was a 0:29:00.040 --> 0:29:02.120 man by the name of John Potts, and he was 0:29:02.560 --> 0:29:06.120 adamant and to this day is the same guy. And 0:29:06.200 --> 0:29:08.040 in that hey, I'm going to hire the best people, 0:29:08.040 --> 0:29:09.520 and I'm going to empower them to do the job, 0:29:09.560 --> 0:29:10.760 and I'm going to get out of the way. 0:29:11.160 --> 0:29:15.120 And he held that line, yeah, exactly, and he held 0:29:15.120 --> 0:29:18.560 that line in it. And I'm happy to say that 0:29:18.560 --> 0:29:23.680 that remained consistent as others followed him through the through 0:29:23.720 --> 0:29:26.560 the board, and through the Green Committee, and and you know, 0:29:26.720 --> 0:29:29.000 we we've had really I mean, both the architects have 0:29:29.120 --> 0:29:32.000 always wanted to hear from the membership, and the membership's 0:29:32.040 --> 0:29:35.000 had their chance to provide their input or give their opinions. 0:29:35.000 --> 0:29:37.080 But it's kind of always been at the beginning, as 0:29:37.120 --> 0:29:40.880 the plans being developed, the concepts are being reviewed, you know, 0:29:40.960 --> 0:29:43.480 they want to hear what the customer wants. And then 0:29:43.560 --> 0:29:45.120 but but when it came down to it, and I 0:29:45.120 --> 0:29:48.160 bet you if you ask Tom, he tell you how surprised. 0:29:47.600 --> 0:29:49.600 He was in the end that they let him do 0:29:49.640 --> 0:29:52.760 whatever he wanted. And I remember when we were trying 0:29:52.800 --> 0:29:54.360 to get the design out of him, you know, the 0:29:54.440 --> 0:29:58.000 final one for review, you know, he was he and 0:29:58.120 --> 0:30:00.360 Reese both were kind of you know, like, are you sure, 0:30:00.400 --> 0:30:03.200 And I'm like, look, if you want to blow it up, 0:30:03.760 --> 0:30:04.360 blow it up. 0:30:04.440 --> 0:30:05.000 They want to. 0:30:04.960 --> 0:30:07.560 See that they want to see what you think, not 0:30:07.720 --> 0:30:09.840 what you think they want. They want to see what 0:30:09.960 --> 0:30:12.600 you think. That's what they're looking to get. And and 0:30:12.680 --> 0:30:14.320 Tom was like, you got to be kidding me, you know, 0:30:14.440 --> 0:30:17.080 in his own way, you know, like you got to 0:30:17.080 --> 0:30:20.400 be kidding me. He took him a while to I think, 0:30:20.440 --> 0:30:23.160 trust me that I was telling the truth as I 0:30:23.760 --> 0:30:26.760 liaison this information and encourage him to do it. But 0:30:26.880 --> 0:30:30.680 he did it and and it and it held true 0:30:30.680 --> 0:30:31.440 all the way through. 0:30:31.920 --> 0:30:34.160 And so that that credit goes to the members of 0:30:34.200 --> 0:30:34.600 a diynat. 0:30:34.680 --> 0:30:36.360 You know, they went out and they found that the 0:30:36.360 --> 0:30:38.440 people they wanted the best people that they could get, 0:30:39.000 --> 0:30:41.720 and they empower them to build it. And now they've 0:30:41.720 --> 0:30:44.480 got they've got those products out there, which you know 0:30:44.560 --> 0:30:46.240 is a testament to them and their commitments. 0:30:46.280 --> 0:30:49.000 So it's it's interesting. I think that's like really good 0:30:49.040 --> 0:30:52.960 advice for any membership or any Greens committee is is 0:30:53.360 --> 0:30:56.360 letting like you know, when when you get to a 0:30:56.480 --> 0:30:59.680 planning stage in an architect putting together plans, like you know, 0:31:01.120 --> 0:31:04.800 let them put everything they want to do out there. Yeah, 0:31:04.880 --> 0:31:08.080 because like they might have something that's spectacular that they 0:31:08.120 --> 0:31:10.760 hold back on because they're afraid. But like letting them 0:31:10.800 --> 0:31:13.640 put everything out there, right. You know, you can always 0:31:13.720 --> 0:31:16.120 rain something back in, but like you, you won't see 0:31:16.160 --> 0:31:18.840 the full the full thought because they're you know, they're 0:31:18.840 --> 0:31:19.720 really artists and. 0:31:20.400 --> 0:31:23.600 Sure, and and you have to do that too from 0:31:23.640 --> 0:31:29.240 an infrastructure structural standpoint, because the art won't manifest completely 0:31:29.440 --> 0:31:32.760 if it doesn't function properly. And you know, that's what 0:31:32.920 --> 0:31:35.600 people run into is they have to set budget before 0:31:35.640 --> 0:31:38.959 they even start, right, And we face that at the beginning, like, hey, 0:31:39.040 --> 0:31:41.000 we're only going to spend this much on the project. 0:31:41.000 --> 0:31:44.560 Well okay, but our philosophy was we're going to tell 0:31:44.560 --> 0:31:47.840 the membership what it costs to do it right right. 0:31:48.520 --> 0:31:51.880 And it happened to be more than double on that project, 0:31:52.360 --> 0:31:55.280 and everybody was concerned and we talked about it, but 0:31:55.320 --> 0:31:58.160 we all agreed that hey, let's let's give them the 0:31:58.160 --> 0:32:01.320 full project and let them say no. And we gave 0:32:01.360 --> 0:32:04.360 them the project, we gave them the backup and they said, yes, 0:32:04.640 --> 0:32:06.920 we built it and it worked. So you know, I mean, 0:32:07.200 --> 0:32:09.000 if you're fortunate enough to be able to take the 0:32:09.040 --> 0:32:11.200 time to do it that way, that's that's the way 0:32:11.280 --> 0:32:14.520 to do it. This whole value engineering. Before you even 0:32:14.600 --> 0:32:17.720 go ask for the money is just a road to 0:32:18.040 --> 0:32:19.440 shortcuts and disasters. 0:32:20.280 --> 0:32:26.720 How's maintenance and golf course, like just the overall philosophy 0:32:26.960 --> 0:32:30.960 and trends. Yeah, changed in the last fifteen years for 0:32:32.080 --> 0:32:32.760 the industry. 0:32:33.320 --> 0:32:38.440 You know, that's a good question. They've definitely continue to progress, 0:32:38.480 --> 0:32:40.800 and I would say most of it has been around 0:32:41.040 --> 0:32:43.320 the development a lot of the new grasses that guys 0:32:43.320 --> 0:32:46.840 are using, whether it's warm season or cool season grasses. 0:32:46.880 --> 0:32:51.240 Everybody's using modern you know, varieties and species that happen 0:32:51.280 --> 0:32:54.160 to be high organic matter producers. Right, so we're all 0:32:54.200 --> 0:32:58.560 trying to get the firmest, fastest product that we can get. 0:32:58.760 --> 0:32:59.240 Yeah. 0:32:59.560 --> 0:33:03.640 Right, that's a little different, Right, That's that's definitely different. 0:33:03.720 --> 0:33:06.320 And and uh, but we're trying to do that with 0:33:06.480 --> 0:33:09.880 these grasses that are inclined to get there. But what 0:33:09.960 --> 0:33:12.520 people don't see is what what happens under the under 0:33:12.600 --> 0:33:16.200 the canopy, under the surface, and and uh, inadvertently it 0:33:16.240 --> 0:33:20.360 requires a lot of maintenance that people haven't really counted on. 0:33:20.440 --> 0:33:24.120 So that's that's been a change, you know, coming up 0:33:24.160 --> 0:33:26.640 from the desert there seven years. You know, I always 0:33:26.680 --> 0:33:32.760 had a real or I was taught a real irrigation 0:33:32.920 --> 0:33:35.240 was a premium you know, I learned to manage head 0:33:35.240 --> 0:33:37.400 by head. I learned not to waste to drop of water. 0:33:37.440 --> 0:33:40.640 I learned to water very specific and effectively. And I've 0:33:40.800 --> 0:33:46.000 used those principles through my East Coast work, my Midwest work. 0:33:46.080 --> 0:33:47.680 You know, I'm a Southern work, so I mean, it's 0:33:47.760 --> 0:33:52.680 all it's all been there with this firm and fast 0:33:52.720 --> 0:33:56.200 approach and water conservation and all the things that come 0:33:56.240 --> 0:34:03.080 into today's golf course maintenance, environment managing irrigation and understanding 0:34:03.120 --> 0:34:07.360 water quality and making it work for you for as 0:34:07.600 --> 0:34:11.359 little as possible ultimately yields that playing service people are 0:34:11.360 --> 0:34:14.239 looking like and addresses the environmental concerns. 0:34:14.840 --> 0:34:16.120 And really what it. 0:34:16.040 --> 0:34:20.080 Comes down to is it's funny, is that it's really 0:34:20.120 --> 0:34:27.560 about the fundamental principles of cultivation and soil modification and 0:34:27.760 --> 0:34:30.239 or drainage. Right, You've got to have a draining profile. 0:34:30.640 --> 0:34:33.399 You can have heavy soils that hold water. You got 0:34:33.440 --> 0:34:35.319 to remove the organic matter. If you do all that, 0:34:35.400 --> 0:34:37.160 you can use the least amount of water. You can 0:34:37.239 --> 0:34:39.480 keep it firm. You can do all these things. And 0:34:40.160 --> 0:34:42.600 you know, as painful as that is to take a 0:34:42.640 --> 0:34:46.240 golf course out of play and execute that, it's critical 0:34:46.440 --> 0:34:47.520 in my opinion. 0:34:48.600 --> 0:34:51.640 With the new courses, you get the new greens and 0:34:51.360 --> 0:34:54.440 they don't have any like Thatch in them. Right, what's like, 0:34:54.840 --> 0:34:57.359 what's the best year to play like, because I know, 0:34:57.440 --> 0:35:01.239 like no Thatch, people will be like it's way too firm, right, 0:35:01.400 --> 0:35:04.000 is it like year or two when they're just perfect? 0:35:04.239 --> 0:35:06.799 You know what with these newer grasses, like we have 0:35:06.840 --> 0:35:10.400 double O seven creeping bancrafts on our greens here Madonna, 0:35:10.480 --> 0:35:13.399 And yeah, it's it's literally end of the second year 0:35:13.440 --> 0:35:15.560 beginning in the third year when we need to. 0:35:15.480 --> 0:35:16.520 Now start removing it. 0:35:16.840 --> 0:35:20.400 So somewhere in that second year start of the third 0:35:20.520 --> 0:35:22.919 you've got the right amount. And if you don't get 0:35:22.960 --> 0:35:26.080 on it, then in terms of the management of that profile, 0:35:26.400 --> 0:35:28.759 it'll get away from you quick. So it comes on 0:35:28.880 --> 0:35:30.720 a lot faster than it may have in the past, 0:35:31.200 --> 0:35:34.640 but you also have to stay from a management perspective 0:35:35.160 --> 0:35:36.560 equally as on. 0:35:36.600 --> 0:35:38.040 Top of it as quick as it comes on you. 0:35:38.520 --> 0:35:43.080 Yes, I played a couple courses last year, the Loop 0:35:43.239 --> 0:35:45.600 and then Sand Valley first year, and you know, the 0:35:45.840 --> 0:35:48.800 heats are really firm, and like, yeah, I love the 0:35:48.840 --> 0:35:51.120 firm I mean I kind of like it. I kind 0:35:51.120 --> 0:35:53.439 of like playing new courses because it brings a whole 0:35:53.480 --> 0:35:55.960 new element to the game. But I played them both 0:35:56.040 --> 0:35:58.960 this year and like I thought they were so they 0:35:58.960 --> 0:36:01.600 were so close to perc where like you really, you know, 0:36:01.719 --> 0:36:05.600 like long iron's really run out and it's it's amazing 0:36:05.640 --> 0:36:09.160 how much of a difference that makes, like the overall 0:36:09.160 --> 0:36:12.799 strategy of a golf course, and it's a you see 0:36:12.800 --> 0:36:15.160 it on the tour. I mean, like if a course 0:36:15.200 --> 0:36:17.400 isn't firm and fast, it doesn't matter what course it is, 0:36:17.440 --> 0:36:19.920 it's going to get lit up by these guys. And 0:36:19.920 --> 0:36:22.319 and then like you know, they you saw, like I 0:36:22.320 --> 0:36:27.319 think TPC Potomac, they they're they're superintendent did a great 0:36:27.400 --> 0:36:29.399 job this year. But it was so firm and fast 0:36:29.440 --> 0:36:31.759 and the scores were right around par, And I mean 0:36:31.920 --> 0:36:34.440 it makes a big difference. And then I think firm 0:36:34.480 --> 0:36:38.160 and fast conditions are are something that almost levels that 0:36:38.320 --> 0:36:42.000 skill difference between the the low handicappers and the high 0:36:42.040 --> 0:36:45.200 handicappers because for seniors they get the ball gets run 0:36:45.239 --> 0:36:47.520 it and the course isn't as long. But then for 0:36:47.600 --> 0:36:51.920 the for the more skilled player, it I mean it 0:36:52.000 --> 0:36:54.440 heightens how precise you have to be. You know, the 0:36:54.480 --> 0:36:56.960 ball just doesn't stick no matter how you hit it. 0:36:57.040 --> 0:36:57.560 That's right. 0:36:57.800 --> 0:37:01.600 Yeah, it's a it's cool. How do how do you 0:37:01.600 --> 0:37:05.160 go about managing three courses? You? I mean, not many 0:37:05.280 --> 0:37:09.759 superintendents have as big of an operation as you. You know, 0:37:09.800 --> 0:37:14.600 what's the difference between being you know, superintendent at you know, 0:37:15.239 --> 0:37:19.120 Billy Bob Country Club and uh, you know, having a 0:37:19.239 --> 0:37:21.719 team and having to manage three Like how much time 0:37:21.719 --> 0:37:22.879 do you spend across them? 0:37:23.600 --> 0:37:26.959 Yeah, so you said it starts with the team. 0:37:27.120 --> 0:37:31.319 Really, you know, you've got to have a team of individuals, 0:37:31.360 --> 0:37:34.080 both both at the top level of your management in 0:37:34.160 --> 0:37:37.000 terms of your course superintendents and your assistance and then 0:37:37.040 --> 0:37:39.680 all the way down to your seasonal guys. But you 0:37:39.800 --> 0:37:44.680 have to build a very well qualified, eager, kind of 0:37:44.760 --> 0:37:48.680 hungry team that likes high energy and a lot of action, right, 0:37:48.719 --> 0:37:51.880 and three courses there's just always something happened, and you're 0:37:52.000 --> 0:37:54.319 always you know, you might be on this course, but 0:37:54.360 --> 0:37:57.120 there might be something happening over there and one of 0:37:57.160 --> 0:37:59.279 the others, and you just have to be you have 0:37:59.280 --> 0:38:02.560 to be ready for a fast paced kind of environment. 0:38:02.760 --> 0:38:05.640 And and then you've got to be communicative. 0:38:05.760 --> 0:38:09.239 I mean, we place a real big premium. 0:38:08.800 --> 0:38:12.000 On communication here and you know, if you look through 0:38:12.000 --> 0:38:13.920 our shop, I have, you know, things all over the 0:38:13.920 --> 0:38:18.560 wall that talk about, like, you know, fundamental communication and 0:38:18.680 --> 0:38:22.000 talking as frequently as possible. And it's a major part 0:38:22.000 --> 0:38:24.600 of our day just just to have that radio blaring 0:38:24.760 --> 0:38:27.520 back and forth, even if you're just sending information back 0:38:27.600 --> 0:38:30.880 and forth, in order for everybody to be engaged. And 0:38:30.880 --> 0:38:34.799 that's what it takes to be successful at running a consistent, 0:38:35.400 --> 0:38:39.360 large scale operation is you know, a really qualified, hungry 0:38:39.400 --> 0:38:44.239 group of people and guys that are willing to communicate. 0:38:44.320 --> 0:38:46.920 I mean, if you come work on our team and 0:38:46.960 --> 0:38:50.080 you sit back and you don't engage, you're going to 0:38:50.120 --> 0:38:52.480 get passed by and you will just be out of 0:38:52.520 --> 0:38:54.520 the game. You know, you've got to be willing to 0:38:55.280 --> 0:39:00.600 ask the dumb question, to make the odd or irrelevant observation, 0:39:00.719 --> 0:39:04.279 it doesn't matter. It's communication. It engages you into the talk, 0:39:04.640 --> 0:39:07.279 we all get going and that's really the key to it. 0:39:07.360 --> 0:39:09.399 And then you know, obviously, I mean you've got to have. 0:39:09.360 --> 0:39:11.359 The resources and the support of the club, and you've 0:39:11.320 --> 0:39:13.759 got to have real specific goals for what you're trying 0:39:13.800 --> 0:39:16.640 to accomplish, and that has everything to do with the customer, right, 0:39:16.719 --> 0:39:18.600 So I mean, you know, you and I might like 0:39:18.680 --> 0:39:22.160 really firm, fast conditions, but the media members may like 0:39:22.360 --> 0:39:25.439 to them that might be something different, and you've got 0:39:25.480 --> 0:39:27.279 to have a clear picture of that to set those 0:39:27.320 --> 0:39:31.359 goals right. But you know, here at Medina, we are 0:39:31.440 --> 0:39:34.400 fortunate to have I'm fortunate to be the leader of 0:39:34.440 --> 0:39:38.200 just a fantastic group of guys. Jake Mendos, our Course 0:39:38.239 --> 0:39:41.120 three superintendent's been with me for three years or for 0:39:41.200 --> 0:39:43.360 ten years, and he's worked on all three courses. And 0:39:46.360 --> 0:39:50.120 Dane Wilson, the Course to Superintendent. He started as an 0:39:50.120 --> 0:39:53.000 intern here with us some seventy eight years ago and 0:39:53.040 --> 0:39:55.600 has worked his way all the way up to Course superintendent. 0:39:56.000 --> 0:39:59.480 He oversaw the Course to project along with me. He 0:39:59.560 --> 0:40:01.799 also worked billing the Dope project, so he's got a 0:40:01.800 --> 0:40:04.759 ton of experiences. He's a legacy soup. His dad was 0:40:04.840 --> 0:40:07.640 superintendent of Valhalla for twenty three years, so he's got 0:40:08.400 --> 0:40:11.200 his blood. It's in his blood. And Chris Funky, our 0:40:11.200 --> 0:40:14.320 course won superintendent, also interned for me a number of 0:40:14.360 --> 0:40:16.880 years ago, came back after he graduated and worked his 0:40:16.960 --> 0:40:19.279 way up to running one of the golf courses and 0:40:19.320 --> 0:40:23.040 then our assistants in our full time staff, guys that 0:40:23.080 --> 0:40:26.839 have been in Medina for fifteen, eighteen, twenty years. I mean, 0:40:26.880 --> 0:40:30.080 these guys, they know the deal and we count on 0:40:30.120 --> 0:40:32.520 them heavily and they deliver, and you know, it's a 0:40:32.520 --> 0:40:35.080 privilege for me to be a part of that group. 0:40:36.560 --> 0:40:39.279 The internship program I mentioned briefly is a big deal 0:40:39.320 --> 0:40:43.399 to me. We just completed our tenth season and there's 0:40:43.480 --> 0:40:46.480 eight of us that are university trained agronomus that manage 0:40:46.520 --> 0:40:48.480 the property and take. 0:40:48.400 --> 0:40:53.480 Me out of it. Of the seven of the seven, 0:40:54.800 --> 0:40:56.160 five of them. 0:40:56.000 --> 0:40:58.640 Were interns in our program that have come back to 0:40:58.960 --> 0:41:01.440 work their way up. I mean, I'm really proud that 0:41:01.560 --> 0:41:04.160 they get that kind of experience as a student. They 0:41:04.239 --> 0:41:07.799 see a place where they can grow and and and 0:41:08.000 --> 0:41:10.160 learn a lot of stuff and obviously work at a 0:41:10.160 --> 0:41:13.160 great place. They come back, they work hard, and then 0:41:13.320 --> 0:41:16.160 we've had guys graduate on out of our program and 0:41:16.520 --> 0:41:19.359 various parts of the country now at top facilities. So 0:41:19.719 --> 0:41:23.239 I place a real emphasis on developing my team. I 0:41:23.320 --> 0:41:25.560 put I put a lot of work and effort into 0:41:25.560 --> 0:41:28.040 making sure they get what they need and it's customed 0:41:28.040 --> 0:41:32.040 to their goals, and ultimately that pays off benefits for 0:41:32.080 --> 0:41:34.600 our members because everybody's on the same page. 0:41:34.800 --> 0:41:37.359 I mean, it's cool because they get you give them 0:41:37.400 --> 0:41:40.480 advice to grow and you know eventually you hope they 0:41:40.640 --> 0:41:45.040 grow out. That's right, I mean is what every manager 0:41:45.080 --> 0:41:47.160 should want. And it's kind of you know, DONK has 0:41:47.200 --> 0:41:51.600 a similar internship program with Renaissance, where you know they 0:41:51.600 --> 0:41:54.239 have the internship program. You can look and you see 0:41:54.280 --> 0:41:57.399 all these new young architects are you know, come from 0:41:57.440 --> 0:42:03.160 their corn Crenshaw And it's really it's it's internships. It's 0:42:03.239 --> 0:42:05.920 cool when you can see him. You know, you've got 0:42:06.000 --> 0:42:07.600 like a coaching treat like Coach K. 0:42:07.960 --> 0:42:11.000 Yeah, it's funny you say that because we have a 0:42:11.080 --> 0:42:13.600 lot of Coach K things on the wall. You know, 0:42:14.440 --> 0:42:17.879 my mentor Sean Emerson a Desert Mountain, He's a he's 0:42:17.960 --> 0:42:21.680 a fiery guy and I love working for him because 0:42:21.719 --> 0:42:23.920 of that. But he would call himself the Bobby Knight 0:42:24.040 --> 0:42:26.279 golf of course superintendents, and I always used to tell him, 0:42:26.560 --> 0:42:27.520 one day, I'm going to be the. 0:42:27.560 --> 0:42:29.320 Coach K because Coach. 0:42:29.239 --> 0:42:32.759 K worked for Bobby Knight and both army guys. 0:42:32.960 --> 0:42:34.239 Yeah and and and uh. 0:42:34.840 --> 0:42:37.120 Coach K I think has a few more national championships 0:42:37.120 --> 0:42:39.680 than Bobby Knight, So I like to rub that into Sean, 0:42:39.760 --> 0:42:41.480 but I don't think I have more than him. But 0:42:41.680 --> 0:42:44.240 it was always fun to to just kind of smack 0:42:44.320 --> 0:42:44.800 talk like that. 0:42:45.160 --> 0:42:51.960 Yeah, curious, So National Championships, good segue. Yeah, you've hosted 0:42:53.040 --> 0:42:57.960 pg A. You aren't here for that Ryder Cup and 0:42:58.000 --> 0:43:01.680 then you'll have the BMW and two years right, so 0:43:02.560 --> 0:43:05.239 Ryder Cup. I mean that had to be. 0:43:07.080 --> 0:43:09.920 Once in a lifetime experience. It was unbelievable. 0:43:10.760 --> 0:43:14.800 I was out here, yeah, walking in here on on 0:43:14.920 --> 0:43:17.239 the course, Yeah, just parking lot. 0:43:17.840 --> 0:43:19.640 Yeah, I tell you what I mean, from the day 0:43:19.680 --> 0:43:23.680 I was hired until the day after the Ryder Cup, 0:43:23.760 --> 0:43:24.520 how long. 0:43:24.480 --> 0:43:25.480 Before the Ryder Cup? 0:43:25.480 --> 0:43:26.239 For five years? 0:43:26.360 --> 0:43:29.600 Five years, five years, and every day for five years, Andy, 0:43:29.680 --> 0:43:32.040 all I thought about was that week. I mean, there 0:43:32.160 --> 0:43:34.600 wasn't a single day that I didn't come out on 0:43:34.680 --> 0:43:37.360 this property and think about that week, you know. I 0:43:37.440 --> 0:43:39.360 mean it was one hundred. I mean, that was the 0:43:39.680 --> 0:43:41.440 main draw. That's what I wanted to do with a 0:43:41.520 --> 0:43:44.719 goal of mine, to do something like that, and and uh, 0:43:45.000 --> 0:43:45.800 I tell you it was. 0:43:46.280 --> 0:43:46.520 It was. 0:43:48.280 --> 0:43:50.279 It was quite a humbling. 0:43:50.040 --> 0:43:53.520 Experience driving up the eighteenth Fairway on Sunday when we 0:43:53.760 --> 0:43:56.800 prepped our last hole and then driving the course the 0:43:56.880 --> 0:43:57.880 next morning was. 0:43:57.960 --> 0:43:59.400 Like, you know, I did, you know, it was in 0:43:59.680 --> 0:44:00.840 just a weird place. 0:44:01.200 --> 0:44:05.200 You know that five years of time lived lived to 0:44:05.280 --> 0:44:09.040 try to successfully lead the team through that, and we 0:44:09.120 --> 0:44:10.640 had accomplished it with something else. 0:44:10.719 --> 0:44:13.200 But you were you were one of the few Americans 0:44:13.280 --> 0:44:16.200 that had a good feeling after that Rider Cup. 0:44:17.280 --> 0:44:18.640 That's true. That's true. 0:44:18.640 --> 0:44:21.200 And I had so many guys from Europe and other 0:44:21.480 --> 0:44:25.080 volunteers here, you know, wanting to console me that afternoon, 0:44:25.239 --> 0:44:28.239 and I was like trying to act sad, but at 0:44:28.280 --> 0:44:30.960 the same time, I mean, I was just so happy 0:44:31.000 --> 0:44:33.719 that that Madonna was successful. 0:44:33.800 --> 0:44:35.680 I mean, that was that was what my goal was, 0:44:35.760 --> 0:44:36.640 and that was what I was. 0:44:36.680 --> 0:44:39.520 Here to do, was to ensure that that golf course 0:44:39.560 --> 0:44:42.719 in this club showed well and that our members were 0:44:42.760 --> 0:44:45.360 proud and and that was first and foremost, and we 0:44:45.640 --> 0:44:46.279 accomplished that. 0:44:47.520 --> 0:44:50.320 The US opens kind of the only thing that comes 0:44:50.400 --> 0:44:54.640 close to the spectacle of a Ryder Cup in terms 0:44:54.680 --> 0:44:57.759 of like years of preparation was there. There had to be, 0:44:58.000 --> 0:45:00.320 you know, so every Ryder Cup because it was like 0:45:00.760 --> 0:45:04.120 because of the alternating schedule, I mean for four years, right, 0:45:04.440 --> 0:45:08.239 You're essentially like the PGA is sole focused. Yeah, I mean, 0:45:08.320 --> 0:45:10.319 there's it's a big deal for them. So how often 0:45:10.480 --> 0:45:11.520 would you communicate? 0:45:11.680 --> 0:45:15.520 And you know, you know I started talking with Carrie 0:45:15.600 --> 0:45:19.160 Egg of PGA when the Royder couples at Aalhola and 0:45:19.840 --> 0:45:20.759 did you go down to that? 0:45:21.080 --> 0:45:21.880 I did? I did. 0:45:21.960 --> 0:45:23.760 I went down there, you know a number of times 0:45:23.800 --> 0:45:26.279 to see the buildout and down during the event. 0:45:26.360 --> 0:45:28.080 But Carrie, Carrie and his. 0:45:28.280 --> 0:45:33.000 Team was on site literally the winter after that, walking 0:45:33.080 --> 0:45:36.080 the site, started to lay out the design of of 0:45:36.239 --> 0:45:39.719 the of the of the production, if you will, and 0:45:39.960 --> 0:45:41.840 so you know, there was a lot of talk and 0:45:41.920 --> 0:45:46.120 then and then it really heated up when the captain 0:45:46.239 --> 0:45:48.480 was selected. So that was two years, you know, just 0:45:48.680 --> 0:45:51.319 under two years prior to the event, and that's when 0:45:51.640 --> 0:45:54.600 the talks got a little bit more specific. The plans 0:45:54.640 --> 0:46:00.000 were all laid out in terms of of uh portorate, hospitality. 0:46:00.080 --> 0:46:02.520 He lay out back of the house stage in grand stands. 0:46:02.600 --> 0:46:05.560 You know, we had a plan that we were working 0:46:05.640 --> 0:46:08.520 off of and in terms of inside the ropes. You know, 0:46:08.560 --> 0:46:10.640 then we started having discussions. 0:46:10.120 --> 0:46:12.120 Like what's the goal? 0:46:12.280 --> 0:46:15.399 Yeah, so what what was the goal for that ryer? 0:46:15.880 --> 0:46:17.640 Like what was like kind of how do they want 0:46:17.719 --> 0:46:20.600 the course, like what you know, did they talk about 0:46:20.760 --> 0:46:22.960 like what would you know be Bennett? 0:46:23.160 --> 0:46:26.920 Yeah, yeah, I mean it's so so Pauli's inger at Valhalla. 0:46:27.200 --> 0:46:29.600 He was like the first American in a long time, 0:46:29.640 --> 0:46:31.120 American captain in a long time to. 0:46:31.200 --> 0:46:33.120 Have some influence and do some things. 0:46:33.160 --> 0:46:35.560 So you know, they they mowed some rough short in 0:46:35.880 --> 0:46:38.439 some landing zones and you know, cut down a tree 0:46:38.520 --> 0:46:40.239 limb that was in the way of jab Holmes, and 0:46:40.400 --> 0:46:41.880 you know, they did a few things where he was, 0:46:42.000 --> 0:46:46.120 you know, as as opposed to previous guys that hadn't 0:46:46.239 --> 0:46:48.879 really done anything so show off to play and coach. 0:46:49.880 --> 0:46:52.239 So Davis, you know, kind of coming off that, I mean, 0:46:52.320 --> 0:46:54.320 and he was in tune to hey, I'm going to 0:46:54.440 --> 0:46:55.200 have some influence. 0:46:55.280 --> 0:46:57.520 So, you know, Carrie and Davis and I sat down 0:46:57.600 --> 0:47:01.080 and they both were in agreement that they wanted short 0:47:01.160 --> 0:47:03.239 rough or they thought they wanted short rouff, and they 0:47:03.280 --> 0:47:04.080 wanted fast green. 0:47:04.160 --> 0:47:05.200 So that's where it all started. 0:47:06.040 --> 0:47:09.560 So that following summer, in the summer of eleven, I 0:47:09.680 --> 0:47:12.520 said okay, and I went out and we developed a plan. 0:47:12.719 --> 0:47:15.960 The team and I and the superintendent of course Stree 0:47:15.960 --> 0:47:18.360 at the time was a guy by the name of 0:47:18.440 --> 0:47:20.960 Ross Lobster who we have a long history and had 0:47:21.000 --> 0:47:23.279 worked together, and I had brought him here to be 0:47:23.360 --> 0:47:26.000 a part of that because you know, we had you know, 0:47:26.040 --> 0:47:27.719 I had a ton of confidence in him, and he 0:47:27.920 --> 0:47:31.120 was on that on that project, and he's now at 0:47:31.680 --> 0:47:36.600 and trot at Snow Canyon in Utah. Anyway, we all 0:47:36.640 --> 0:47:38.560 sat down and came up with this plan about how 0:47:38.719 --> 0:47:42.799 to drape the entire golf course in intermediate hight ruff. 0:47:43.400 --> 0:47:46.040 So we were gonna we were going to mow it down, 0:47:46.280 --> 0:47:49.960 interced it, start using growth regulators to create density and 0:47:50.080 --> 0:47:52.360 try to build fairways essentially at an inch and a 0:47:52.480 --> 0:47:57.560 quarter that went completely over top of and around all 0:47:57.640 --> 0:48:00.759 green complexes, all bunkers, and then effective tied into the 0:48:00.920 --> 0:48:03.759 tee and we were trying to get out to the 0:48:03.800 --> 0:48:07.399 tree line as wide as we could, and people talking 0:48:07.440 --> 0:48:09.560 about it being like an Augusta rough type of thing, 0:48:09.640 --> 0:48:10.239 and so. 0:48:10.360 --> 0:48:11.120 We we did. 0:48:11.280 --> 0:48:13.440 Davis came out that summer and I showed him over 0:48:13.560 --> 0:48:14.680 up to it and he's like, yeah, you know, I 0:48:15.360 --> 0:48:17.480 think this is kind of it's different, but let's go 0:48:17.640 --> 0:48:20.520 with it. And then as we were getting closer to 0:48:20.640 --> 0:48:23.279 twenty twelve. He said, you know, I don't know, I'm 0:48:23.360 --> 0:48:25.040 kind of not sure about it. And I said, well, 0:48:25.600 --> 0:48:28.640 from our perspective, it's better to be short and have 0:48:28.840 --> 0:48:31.920 you say, you know, two three weeks out, let's grow 0:48:32.000 --> 0:48:33.480 it up then the other way around. 0:48:33.760 --> 0:48:37.840 Yeah, And the club was on board, and so that 0:48:38.000 --> 0:48:40.680 members loved it. Probably the easiest of course three's I 0:48:40.680 --> 0:48:41.040 ever met. 0:48:41.280 --> 0:48:43.160 Yeah, right, it was. I mean it was you know, 0:48:43.239 --> 0:48:44.759 you can miss a fair way and you had a 0:48:45.120 --> 0:48:47.560 you know for a higher handicaper. It was a great lie. 0:48:47.760 --> 0:48:51.080 Yeah, you know, so we worked hard at that and 0:48:51.200 --> 0:48:54.040 got that all cut in and we started just the 0:48:54.120 --> 0:48:57.080 Greens had just been built in twentyd and nine to ten, 0:48:57.680 --> 0:49:00.440 and so they were maturing, like we were talking about, 0:49:00.520 --> 0:49:02.960 and we were running a lot of playthroughom we had 0:49:02.960 --> 0:49:05.600 a lot of rain and heat and and you know, 0:49:05.719 --> 0:49:08.399 so it was it was struggle. We struggled to get 0:49:08.440 --> 0:49:11.880 them to kind of knit in and solidify. But you know, 0:49:12.000 --> 0:49:14.560 they got better as time went on, and ultimately they 0:49:14.600 --> 0:49:17.880 got there and they're they're structurally, they're they're fantastic, and 0:49:17.920 --> 0:49:21.640 they're they've never blinked. But it was a longer road 0:49:22.200 --> 0:49:24.359 for those Greens to get there. But by the time 0:49:24.440 --> 0:49:27.920 we got to to H twelve, which was there effectively 0:49:27.960 --> 0:49:32.279 their second full year, they were steady and we were 0:49:32.320 --> 0:49:35.520 able to get those green speeds up, so uh, you know, 0:49:35.600 --> 0:49:38.000 as got got you know, within you know, a few 0:49:38.040 --> 0:49:40.880 weeks of the event, Davis and Steve Stricker and I 0:49:41.640 --> 0:49:45.800 went out and we we picked five whole locations on 0:49:45.960 --> 0:49:49.120 all the greens and we didn't say, hey, Friday a m, 0:49:49.320 --> 0:49:51.200 Saturday PM, Sunday on that. 0:49:51.400 --> 0:49:55.120 We just Davis wanted too easy, too hard and you know, 0:49:55.280 --> 0:49:57.480 one in the middle kind of thing. So he had 0:49:57.560 --> 0:50:01.200 like a right and we ended those over to Carrie 0:50:01.239 --> 0:50:04.440 Hag who in the end is you know, the final 0:50:04.719 --> 0:50:07.120 decision maker on all that, and he edited a few 0:50:07.200 --> 0:50:09.759 of them right off the bat, like, you guys are nuts, 0:50:10.080 --> 0:50:12.879 way too hard not doing this, and it was his call, 0:50:13.320 --> 0:50:14.560 and he ultimately. 0:50:14.239 --> 0:50:16.440 So way too hard in the sense of like they 0:50:16.560 --> 0:50:19.440 wanted you know, excitement, Yeah, they. 0:50:19.400 --> 0:50:22.400 Want excitement, and they were a little too close to slopes. 0:50:22.000 --> 0:50:24.480 And you know, just you know, you know, he made 0:50:24.480 --> 0:50:26.640 a comment like you guys are trying to get me fired, 0:50:26.680 --> 0:50:29.840 but these are what you know, and we just laughed. 0:50:29.920 --> 0:50:34.120 But you know, in the end, those decisions were carries, 0:50:34.880 --> 0:50:37.000 and you know, he, like I said, he used the 0:50:37.080 --> 0:50:39.600 ones that he wanted to use. And people talk about 0:50:39.719 --> 0:50:43.839 Sunday seventeen on Sunday, and you know, being on the road, 0:50:44.120 --> 0:50:46.480 it was on the rights right, yeah, back right, and 0:50:46.840 --> 0:50:50.000 and you know, like why Davis put the pin there? 0:50:50.080 --> 0:50:54.200 And first of all, I don't know if Davis and 0:50:54.360 --> 0:50:56.880 Carrie had a conversation said do that or not. 0:50:57.320 --> 0:51:00.120 You know, maybe they did that wasn't you know, I 0:51:00.239 --> 0:51:03.120 was executing the management of the of the grounds by 0:51:03.160 --> 0:51:03.520 that point. 0:51:03.760 --> 0:51:05.360 I wasn't involved in whole location. 0:51:05.440 --> 0:51:09.520 It's amazing how everybody looks at that pin when you 0:51:09.600 --> 0:51:12.560 could there's a bunch of others, Like no one would 0:51:12.600 --> 0:51:15.439 ever pick out the fourth whole pen, like it could 0:51:15.440 --> 0:51:17.000 have been the worst one of all of them for 0:51:17.160 --> 0:51:19.440 like the team. But no one ever would zoom in 0:51:19.560 --> 0:51:22.080 on the fourthol because it's the fourth all. Everybody might 0:51:22.160 --> 0:51:24.880 have lost the fourth all I know. But because they 0:51:24.920 --> 0:51:27.360 have said that end, somebody zooms in on the seventeen. 0:51:27.480 --> 0:51:31.640 Well, I'm with you, you know, I mean, historically the 0:51:31.800 --> 0:51:34.919 United States had been weakest in the first two days 0:51:34.960 --> 0:51:36.960 of the event, the fourth Wall and the foursomes, and 0:51:37.680 --> 0:51:40.319 Davis created a strategy and we had a golf course 0:51:40.360 --> 0:51:43.279 set up that he handed the team a four point 0:51:43.400 --> 0:51:45.960 lead going into their strongest event. Yeah, and then they 0:51:46.080 --> 0:51:48.960 just got beat. So whole locations are not you know, 0:51:49.360 --> 0:51:50.480 they got out played that day. 0:51:50.600 --> 0:51:52.680 Yeah, and you were just you were about to pop 0:51:52.800 --> 0:51:56.880 up in the champagne. Yeah, I was, yeah, Yeah, what'd 0:51:56.920 --> 0:51:58.959 you do like the night after you're done? 0:51:59.000 --> 0:52:01.520 Tet like, oh oh that, you know what, I'll never 0:52:01.560 --> 0:52:05.239 forget that, because you know what a family goes through, 0:52:05.360 --> 0:52:07.680 you know, if you're married. My young daughters at the time, 0:52:07.800 --> 0:52:09.920 I mean, what they went through to support Meetia. To 0:52:10.000 --> 0:52:13.480 be able to do that was a lot and they 0:52:13.560 --> 0:52:16.200 gave up a ton of time and a lot of 0:52:16.280 --> 0:52:18.799 things in life for me to be so dedicated, and uh, 0:52:19.360 --> 0:52:21.320 you know, I was fortunate to spend that night with 0:52:21.480 --> 0:52:25.080 them and and uh we you know, after we had 0:52:25.280 --> 0:52:28.319 a little pizza party down here and volunteers and people 0:52:28.360 --> 0:52:31.120 were leaving and all that kind of thing. But you know, 0:52:31.200 --> 0:52:32.680 the four of us just got in the cart and 0:52:32.920 --> 0:52:35.359 we went up to the clubhouse and we walked through, 0:52:35.560 --> 0:52:37.719 We went in the team room, we talked to all 0:52:37.760 --> 0:52:40.640 the players, and went into the press tent and my 0:52:40.760 --> 0:52:43.640 girls got a picture with Rory McElroy and I got 0:52:43.680 --> 0:52:46.080 a picture with Osey Maria holding the Ryder Cup, And 0:52:46.520 --> 0:52:48.320 you know, I talked to Davis too. He was, you know, 0:52:48.400 --> 0:52:50.279 he was he was bummed out. It was obviously a 0:52:50.360 --> 0:52:51.279 totally different. 0:52:51.040 --> 0:52:54.040 Deal over there. But we spent our evening just kind 0:52:54.080 --> 0:52:54.680 of around town. 0:52:54.680 --> 0:52:56.560 I mean, they were they were partied up that you're 0:52:56.600 --> 0:52:58.600 a party up there till one or two in the morning, 0:52:59.160 --> 0:53:01.480 and we were up there just kind. 0:53:01.320 --> 0:53:02.839 Of walking around being a part of it all. 0:53:03.400 --> 0:53:06.120 And the next morning, I mean literally the next morning 0:53:06.160 --> 0:53:10.040 is seven m Ryan Schneider was here, Wadsworth was here, 0:53:10.080 --> 0:53:12.280 We had equipment stage. The next morning we took about 0:53:12.360 --> 0:53:17.040 seventy trees out and Brian and Eric Iverson had bulldozed 0:53:17.080 --> 0:53:18.880 two greens and already rough shaped him out by the 0:53:18.960 --> 0:53:21.120 end of the day on Monday, So I mean we 0:53:21.239 --> 0:53:22.640 really we had no time to. 0:53:24.120 --> 0:53:26.879 Think too much. Yeah, we were onto the next thing, 0:53:26.960 --> 0:53:29.239 you know, and fortunate to be able to do that. 0:53:30.000 --> 0:53:33.800 Were there any players that were like particularly interested, like 0:53:33.960 --> 0:53:35.680 ask you more questions than other one? 0:53:36.080 --> 0:53:40.879 Yeah, Jason Dufter, he was, he was, he was great. Well, 0:53:41.520 --> 0:53:44.440 a number of them came out early with Davis and 0:53:44.520 --> 0:53:46.680 played a practice round and that was really cool for me. 0:53:46.840 --> 0:53:49.839 Davis asked me to come along and just ride with them, 0:53:50.239 --> 0:53:50.959 and so I would. 0:53:51.080 --> 0:53:53.799 I would go out into the landing zone and see 0:53:53.880 --> 0:53:55.680 how far they were hitting, you know, just making sure 0:53:55.680 --> 0:53:58.440 everything was good out there, you know, get up to 0:53:58.520 --> 0:54:00.359 the green watch him hit in and I I went 0:54:00.400 --> 0:54:03.080 all eighteen holes with him. We talked green speeds, different things, 0:54:03.160 --> 0:54:05.400 and that was a lot of fun. But Jason Duffner 0:54:05.520 --> 0:54:07.799 wanted to know about heights of cut. And I mean 0:54:07.880 --> 0:54:10.520 he's converting fractions and decimals just off the top of 0:54:10.600 --> 0:54:13.279 his head and being right, you know, which you know, 0:54:13.760 --> 0:54:15.480 I need a calculator for that, you know, So I 0:54:15.560 --> 0:54:16.239 mean he was he. 0:54:16.360 --> 0:54:19.560 Was he really Uh you wouldn't You wouldn't expect Duffner 0:54:19.680 --> 0:54:23.040 to be that calculating and that I feel like it 0:54:23.160 --> 0:54:24.919 would be like a go with the flow guy. 0:54:25.480 --> 0:54:28.240 He had all kinds of questions and it was interesting, 0:54:28.320 --> 0:54:29.880 and uh, I wonder. 0:54:29.640 --> 0:54:32.720 If he asked that for everybody every event. 0:54:33.160 --> 0:54:34.840 I don't know, I don't know he you know, he 0:54:34.880 --> 0:54:36.960 didn't say much. He just asked a question, we told 0:54:37.040 --> 0:54:38.359 the answer, he asked another one. 0:54:38.440 --> 0:54:41.440 But you know, it was uh, yeah, it was it 0:54:41.560 --> 0:54:43.800 was really interesting, and I mean all all the guys 0:54:44.400 --> 0:54:49.200 on both teams were were just fantastic to our team 0:54:49.400 --> 0:54:54.120 and and really gave us, you know, real big nods 0:54:54.160 --> 0:54:58.960 and support and recognition through that event, which you know 0:54:59.120 --> 0:55:01.880 they certainly didn't to do by any means, and we 0:55:02.000 --> 0:55:04.560 feel real fortunate blessed that they did. So, you know, 0:55:04.640 --> 0:55:08.040 it was just kind of a solidification of a job 0:55:08.080 --> 0:55:10.799 well done to have the players say good things. 0:55:11.440 --> 0:55:13.040 What do you what do you think they would want 0:55:13.120 --> 0:55:15.319 to do different with the course set up if they 0:55:15.520 --> 0:55:16.759 could do it all over again. 0:55:18.560 --> 0:55:22.120 Man, it's a good question, you know, I'd have to 0:55:22.200 --> 0:55:23.880 ask them because they. 0:55:24.640 --> 0:55:27.080 Were loving it obviously, and then all of a sudden 0:55:27.120 --> 0:55:28.000 it just like flipped on. 0:55:28.600 --> 0:55:31.799 I think that was just a golf thing you could 0:55:31.840 --> 0:55:34.359 set to stack everything in your favor and the other 0:55:34.480 --> 0:55:36.920 team can win, you know sports. 0:55:37.280 --> 0:55:39.919 Yeah, you know, they liked the fact that they could 0:55:39.960 --> 0:55:42.200 hit it, They could hit it, use their length and 0:55:42.280 --> 0:55:44.600 hit it a long way and not get themselves in 0:55:44.719 --> 0:55:45.400 too much trouble. 0:55:45.440 --> 0:55:47.720 So, I mean they saw the same thing at Hazel 0:55:47.800 --> 0:55:51.279 team with like you know that that place had like 0:55:51.440 --> 0:55:53.400 no rough middle pins. 0:55:54.160 --> 0:55:54.640 It was great. 0:55:54.680 --> 0:55:59.840 When Justin Rose was complaining about right, like too easy, Yeah, exactly, 0:56:00.320 --> 0:56:04.520 but I can understand that. How's so you got PGA 0:56:04.680 --> 0:56:08.239 here like or not pg BMW Yeah yeah, kind of 0:56:09.560 --> 0:56:11.359 got to be starting to get ready for that now. 0:56:11.360 --> 0:56:13.560 We are were you know, it really kicked in when 0:56:13.600 --> 0:56:15.920 we went and spent some time with Connor Healy and 0:56:15.960 --> 0:56:17.000 the team up at. 0:56:18.480 --> 0:56:20.000 Conway Farms and. 0:56:20.160 --> 0:56:23.120 There Connor is a great guy. He ran up fantastic 0:56:23.239 --> 0:56:28.440 got place. It's just immaculate. His tournament uh execution was 0:56:28.719 --> 0:56:32.080 was superb, and so I was really fortunate he's and 0:56:32.160 --> 0:56:35.279 he went out of his way to to He and 0:56:35.480 --> 0:56:38.200 Paul Paul Vermulan from the PGA Tour went out of 0:56:38.200 --> 0:56:41.120 their way to make the place successful to me and 0:56:41.239 --> 0:56:43.560 make you know, give me insight into whatever it is 0:56:43.680 --> 0:56:45.600 that that I needed to see and that I was 0:56:45.640 --> 0:56:46.359 interested in seeing. 0:56:46.840 --> 0:56:49.239 So but but to your point, it just. 0:56:49.280 --> 0:56:51.759 Got got the juices flowing a little bit, you know, 0:56:52.120 --> 0:56:55.160 tournament mode back. And it's nice to really nice to 0:56:55.200 --> 0:56:57.080 be there with the grand stands up and feel that 0:56:57.200 --> 0:56:59.880 atmosphere and I look forward to it. And for the 0:57:00.080 --> 0:57:02.560 guys that are on our team now that weren't here 0:57:02.600 --> 0:57:04.279 to run the Ryder Cup, I really look forward to 0:57:04.960 --> 0:57:07.800 going through an event with them, because that's you know, 0:57:07.880 --> 0:57:10.040 the whole journey, the lead up to it is really 0:57:10.160 --> 0:57:12.400 you know, working together to get there is really what 0:57:12.520 --> 0:57:15.480 it's all about. And then you know those those four 0:57:15.560 --> 0:57:18.000 days of the event are really special too, but. 0:57:18.120 --> 0:57:20.520 They go by like this. Yeah, it's like a wedding. 0:57:20.640 --> 0:57:22.080 Yeah, I was just going to compare that. 0:57:22.160 --> 0:57:24.320 I feel like, so, you know, your your. 0:57:24.320 --> 0:57:27.520 Head spinning, you after, you like, hey I talked that guy, 0:57:27.600 --> 0:57:30.680 did do this? You know, you can't remember, But that's 0:57:30.760 --> 0:57:33.120 that's kind of what it's like. But in the end, 0:57:33.200 --> 0:57:34.800 if you're prepared, it all works out. 0:57:35.080 --> 0:57:37.440 Yeah, it's I don't know if I was prepared for 0:57:37.560 --> 0:57:42.880 my wedding that worked out, right, That's right. That's it's 0:57:43.040 --> 0:57:45.840 it's interesting. It's a it'll be it'll be a little 0:57:45.880 --> 0:57:48.880 bit different of a of a setup. It'll be a 0:57:48.920 --> 0:57:53.120 little a little tougher. But the great thing about number three, 0:57:53.280 --> 0:57:57.439 there's so much space for infrastructure, right that was there's 0:57:57.480 --> 0:57:59.600 no you can put at randstand and it's not a 0:57:59.720 --> 0:58:03.880 bad right And I mean, like eighteen at a count 0:58:04.600 --> 0:58:06.160 kept banked it off the back. 0:58:06.560 --> 0:58:07.240 Yeah, no kidding. 0:58:07.720 --> 0:58:10.560 But the one nice thing is it's up how close 0:58:11.560 --> 0:58:14.120 do they do you try and push those grand stands up, 0:58:15.080 --> 0:58:17.320 you know, because you want the fans as close as 0:58:17.360 --> 0:58:20.480 you can, but right, you don't want to affect the 0:58:20.560 --> 0:58:22.240 integrity of the tournament. 0:58:22.560 --> 0:58:22.760 Yeah. 0:58:22.800 --> 0:58:26.760 You know what was interesting is is uh Kerry said 0:58:26.800 --> 0:58:28.680 something to me when we were doing the Ryder couples 0:58:28.760 --> 0:58:32.720 that you know, he wanted wide ropes and wide porters 0:58:32.760 --> 0:58:34.960 because the further he could spread it out, the more 0:58:35.000 --> 0:58:38.120 people could see. Yeah, as opposed to pulling it tight, 0:58:38.240 --> 0:58:39.520 you know with those sized crowds. 0:58:39.600 --> 0:58:42.840 Yeah, well that and so few golfers. 0:58:42.520 --> 0:58:45.240 So few golfers exactly. And so you know, I have 0:58:45.400 --> 0:58:49.160 yet to see the layout from the Western Golf Association 0:58:49.360 --> 0:58:54.040 and the folks at the PGA Tour with regards to 0:58:54.600 --> 0:58:55.280 what we're going to do. 0:58:55.440 --> 0:58:58.080 So I don't know. Looking at what they did at Conway, 0:58:58.120 --> 0:58:59.720 they had it. They had it. Really. 0:59:01.560 --> 0:59:04.560 Our number eighteen doesn't lend itself because of the elevated 0:59:04.640 --> 0:59:07.200 green to get too close like they did there. We 0:59:07.280 --> 0:59:10.560 got we gotta be a little further back. Seventeen has 0:59:10.600 --> 0:59:14.120 a natural amphitheater. Anyway, I think that, you know, for 0:59:14.160 --> 0:59:15.200 the Ryder Cup, we use that. 0:59:15.480 --> 0:59:17.920 Hope, I hope they do that. Again, but you know, 0:59:18.040 --> 0:59:19.360 we'll see what they come up with. 0:59:19.520 --> 0:59:21.960 I know that for the Ryder Cup, we built forty 0:59:22.000 --> 0:59:25.800 three acres of stuff, so back in the house, front 0:59:25.800 --> 0:59:27.840 of the house, forty three acres. 0:59:27.600 --> 0:59:30.480 Was all part of that infrastructure. 0:59:30.960 --> 0:59:33.320 And I think the estimate for the BMW is going 0:59:33.360 --> 0:59:35.480 to be somewhere in the neighborhood of fifteen. So it's 0:59:35.480 --> 0:59:38.600 about really one third the size of what the Ryder 0:59:38.640 --> 0:59:39.080 Cup was. 0:59:39.800 --> 0:59:42.880 Any like weird little thing go wrong during the Ryder Cup, 0:59:42.960 --> 0:59:45.960 we like, like, did you have any like many disasters 0:59:46.040 --> 0:59:48.280 that no one would know about, you know, like like 0:59:48.800 --> 0:59:50.520 like some machine broker. 0:59:50.920 --> 0:59:56.640 So every superintendent's worst nightmare was about ten days before 0:59:56.680 --> 0:59:59.040 the event, we had a hydraulic league right up the 0:59:59.120 --> 1:00:01.760 center of three fair on a fairway. 1:00:01.440 --> 1:00:05.080 Unit, and we were like, we all just kind of 1:00:05.120 --> 1:00:07.360 standing there, I mean, because we had taken every precaution 1:00:08.360 --> 1:00:10.560 to not have that happen, and it happened, and. 1:00:13.120 --> 1:00:15.720 There was and so I'm thinking, you know, what are 1:00:15.760 --> 1:00:16.480 we going to do about this? 1:00:16.560 --> 1:00:20.840 So we've got you know, basically poe event fairways out there, 1:00:21.200 --> 1:00:24.040 you know, predominantly bent, but there's enough poe in them 1:00:24.080 --> 1:00:26.120 that they're not pure bent. So siding it with bent 1:00:26.200 --> 1:00:27.919 would have been a sore thumb. 1:00:28.000 --> 1:00:31.640 You know, you would have seen it. So we thought 1:00:31.680 --> 1:00:32.000 about it. 1:00:32.160 --> 1:00:36.080 And the guy that worked for us, his name sal Garcia, 1:00:36.120 --> 1:00:39.120 and he's just a master craftsman, and we've been working 1:00:39.160 --> 1:00:42.440 together for twenty some years. He's gone with me from 1:00:42.520 --> 1:00:45.160 site to site. But we went to the forward te 1:00:45.320 --> 1:00:48.600 on number four that had a very similar turf stand, 1:00:49.280 --> 1:00:54.439 stripped it completely, patched that hydraulically. 1:00:54.080 --> 1:00:57.520 Right up the gut, and then sided that tea over 1:00:57.600 --> 1:00:57.880 with bent. 1:00:57.960 --> 1:00:59.600 They weren't going to use it for the event, and 1:01:00.120 --> 1:01:03.200 nobody looks at the four D T and so he 1:01:03.320 --> 1:01:05.480 put it in there and he threaded it in there 1:01:05.680 --> 1:01:09.120 like like as good as you could possibly do it. No, 1:01:09.360 --> 1:01:11.080 And I mean, you know, we could see it, but 1:01:11.680 --> 1:01:13.400 I didn't know if anybody else was going to see it. 1:01:14.080 --> 1:01:16.800 And so about four days later, so I'm standing on 1:01:16.880 --> 1:01:20.920 the third green and here comes a golf cart just 1:01:21.480 --> 1:01:25.040 running right down the fairway and he's literally driving driving 1:01:25.120 --> 1:01:30.120 this hydroc league line and it's Paul Aisinger and he's 1:01:30.160 --> 1:01:33.960 scouting the golf course for TV coverage and he pulls 1:01:34.080 --> 1:01:36.160 right up to me and and I had met him 1:01:36.160 --> 1:01:38.080 once before and he says hello, and he's like. 1:01:38.440 --> 1:01:42.160 Man, the golf course is fantastic, It's immaculate. Congratulations blah 1:01:42.160 --> 1:01:46.160 blah blah. And I'm thinking they're never going to see it. 1:01:46.200 --> 1:01:48.640 They're never going to know. Nobody's gonna know, and nobody did, 1:01:49.040 --> 1:01:52.600 you know? So that was that was you know, yeah, 1:01:52.640 --> 1:01:56.000 that was enough last minute to get your heart in 1:01:56.080 --> 1:01:56.480 your throat. 1:01:56.560 --> 1:02:00.400 But my wedding day, I cut my next shaving. You did, 1:02:01.600 --> 1:02:05.040 and uh, just a tiny one. I never cut myself 1:02:05.080 --> 1:02:09.480 shaving ever in my life before that moment, and uh yeah, 1:02:09.880 --> 1:02:12.800 I didn't have that whatever that kit thing is because 1:02:12.800 --> 1:02:16.959 I've never cut myself shaving. And I had a white 1:02:17.000 --> 1:02:19.120 shirt and it like some of it got on the 1:02:19.200 --> 1:02:21.960 collar because it like started bleeding again. I mean I 1:02:22.120 --> 1:02:24.640 freaked out, but like I was in there with like 1:02:24.680 --> 1:02:28.160 a toothbrush, like you know, but eventually it came out. 1:02:28.240 --> 1:02:30.840 Nobody noticed. I mean, you can't even see him in 1:02:30.880 --> 1:02:31.400 the photos. 1:02:31.840 --> 1:02:32.040 Good. 1:02:33.000 --> 1:02:35.280 Yeah, it's like the same kind of same thing, sure, 1:02:35.720 --> 1:02:41.400 just things that go wrong. So if you were going 1:02:41.480 --> 1:02:45.960 to make one changed, I mean, you got two relatively 1:02:46.080 --> 1:02:50.120 new golf courses and three what would you make one 1:02:50.280 --> 1:02:52.760 if you could make one change? Out here. You know, 1:02:52.840 --> 1:02:56.440 you're putting on your You're the bizarre of Medina. All 1:02:56.520 --> 1:02:59.760 the members answer to you. I see, what would you 1:02:59.840 --> 1:03:01.840 do from a golf course perspective? 1:03:03.240 --> 1:03:07.000 You know there there I would, I would make some 1:03:07.120 --> 1:03:10.840 adjustments to some of the bunkering on course three and 1:03:11.240 --> 1:03:13.240 and we're gonna we're gonna replace the sand and we're 1:03:13.240 --> 1:03:16.240 gonna do with some slight regrading just from sand build 1:03:16.320 --> 1:03:20.800 up prior to the BMW. But there were some bunkers 1:03:20.880 --> 1:03:24.640 that that were built when the course was heavily treated. 1:03:24.720 --> 1:03:27.520 And we've taken fourteen hundred trees off that golf course, 1:03:27.600 --> 1:03:30.800 and since we've been here and and now you have 1:03:30.920 --> 1:03:33.160 some bunker complexes that they still work. You know, for 1:03:33.200 --> 1:03:37.520 all intentsive purposes, they're fine. But just because I know 1:03:37.880 --> 1:03:41.280 that there used to be a support wall of trees 1:03:41.360 --> 1:03:47.600 that that defined that shaping uh parameters, I think that 1:03:48.160 --> 1:03:51.720 with with those gone, I would I would soften those 1:03:51.920 --> 1:03:54.080 and shift those a little bit to. 1:03:54.120 --> 1:03:58.320 Be respectful, uh, you know, just to shift them out. 1:03:59.240 --> 1:04:02.720 I I'd blend. I'd blend the tie ins out. You know, 1:04:02.800 --> 1:04:05.960 you've got some real steep toads of toads of slope 1:04:06.000 --> 1:04:09.480 on the backsides. I'd fade those, and I'd push the 1:04:09.520 --> 1:04:12.040 bunkers in play a little bit more, you know, bring 1:04:12.120 --> 1:04:15.680 the fairway a little bit more into them. Just from 1:04:15.720 --> 1:04:19.480 the experience that that I've been fortunate to have watching 1:04:19.560 --> 1:04:22.600 Tom and Brian Eric do that stuff and then and 1:04:22.680 --> 1:04:25.920 then get to really direct a lot of it on 1:04:26.040 --> 1:04:28.720 two and so forth. You know, I have the confidence 1:04:28.760 --> 1:04:30.560 now to think I can improve them. That might be 1:04:30.960 --> 1:04:33.560 might be bad, but those would be That's. 1:04:33.440 --> 1:04:34.200 Probably what I would do. 1:04:34.720 --> 1:04:36.040 Confidence at half the battle. 1:04:36.240 --> 1:04:37.120 Yeah, I guess you're right. 1:04:37.160 --> 1:04:39.520 It's just like golf. It's right, you're not confident, you're 1:04:39.520 --> 1:04:40.400 not a good shot. 1:04:40.640 --> 1:04:41.680 True, very true. 1:04:41.760 --> 1:04:44.560 You're not confident you're probably bad bad bunker. 1:04:44.840 --> 1:04:45.560 Yeah, you're right. 1:04:45.800 --> 1:04:46.200 You're right. 1:04:46.800 --> 1:04:48.479 There's a couple of them out there that I would 1:04:48.520 --> 1:04:50.439 love to get the green light on them. 1:04:51.200 --> 1:04:54.320 Yeah, it's it seems like everybody loves the mowing lines 1:04:54.480 --> 1:04:55.480 right into bunkers. 1:04:55.800 --> 1:04:56.040 Yeah. 1:04:56.240 --> 1:04:58.200 Is there any thought of ever trying to get some 1:04:58.360 --> 1:05:00.360 of that on three man? 1:05:00.480 --> 1:05:04.040 You know, I would love to see that. I think that, Uh, 1:05:04.360 --> 1:05:06.920 if you if you embarked on that, however, you have 1:05:07.040 --> 1:05:09.880 to change it. You got to do it everywhere. The 1:05:09.960 --> 1:05:11.160 problem is is if you did that. 1:05:11.400 --> 1:05:13.720 And what I mean, I don't mean every single hole, 1:05:14.040 --> 1:05:16.560 but what I mean is every every hole would have 1:05:16.600 --> 1:05:19.000 to be evaluated and every bunker would have to be 1:05:19.120 --> 1:05:22.400 shifted to make it work. Because right now they're they're 1:05:22.480 --> 1:05:26.200 they're they're they're shaped and built into the fairway in 1:05:26.320 --> 1:05:28.800 ways that wouldn't lend itself to make it look natural. 1:05:28.960 --> 1:05:32.320 Yeah, and so we'd have to shift a big project. 1:05:32.360 --> 1:05:33.240 It'd be a big project. 1:05:33.240 --> 1:05:36.520 It'd be there'd be bulldozers, Mini x's and you know, 1:05:36.840 --> 1:05:41.200 some some grading would definitely need to happen, but it'd 1:05:41.280 --> 1:05:43.560 be good. I think that course would would would tough 1:05:43.640 --> 1:05:47.520 enough that way. You know, it's an interest. It's just 1:05:47.640 --> 1:05:52.919 a it's an interesting golf course. It's so long, it's 1:05:52.960 --> 1:05:55.240 so penal. If you get offline, you. 1:05:55.320 --> 1:05:57.320 Don't drive it well, you toast. 1:05:57.680 --> 1:06:00.000 Yeah, it's like going fifteen rounds with a heavy way, 1:06:00.360 --> 1:06:05.120 you know, for you know, thirteen fourteen handicapper like myself. 1:06:05.640 --> 1:06:09.840 It's like man breaking ninety is like I'm buying the beers, 1:06:09.840 --> 1:06:12.640 you know what I mean. Because it's just a long day, 1:06:13.520 --> 1:06:14.440 and you. 1:06:14.480 --> 1:06:17.440 Know, I hadn't played it in a while, and I 1:06:17.560 --> 1:06:20.160 played it after my honeymoon so I hadn't touched the club. 1:06:20.440 --> 1:06:22.720 It was the first round out after my honey, I 1:06:22.800 --> 1:06:25.120 think I hadn't touched a club in like sixteen days. 1:06:26.120 --> 1:06:29.800 And like I started out okay, I hit pretty good, 1:06:29.880 --> 1:06:33.080 but that like kind of lost my tempo and like 1:06:33.320 --> 1:06:35.840 it was like for like five holes like I just 1:06:35.920 --> 1:06:38.200 got I got like was getting bludgeoned over the. 1:06:38.240 --> 1:06:40.400 Head, right exactly. 1:06:41.560 --> 1:06:45.080 It's like I mean it it is like you can't 1:06:46.960 --> 1:06:49.640 you can't fake it out there, and that's why it's 1:06:49.720 --> 1:06:52.520 a championship of course. Like nobody can slap it around 1:06:52.600 --> 1:06:56.520 and shoot a good score on that golf course, but 1:06:57.160 --> 1:07:01.200 it could. I mean, the land is unbelievable over there, 1:07:01.280 --> 1:07:03.560 and the oaks are so beautiful because they got so 1:07:03.640 --> 1:07:07.480 many big oaks, right, you can see them more now, Yeah. 1:07:08.400 --> 1:07:12.960 I mean, you know, the topography gets really really good 1:07:13.040 --> 1:07:15.360 on holes like twelve. I mean you know what I 1:07:15.480 --> 1:07:18.200 mean is that the power four that goes, Yeah, that's 1:07:18.200 --> 1:07:19.640 sweeping side fairway. 1:07:19.720 --> 1:07:22.040 I mean you know that's you hear about Augusta people 1:07:22.080 --> 1:07:24.000 have never been, and then you go and you're like, wow, 1:07:24.240 --> 1:07:27.280 they're right. You can't appreciate the topography unless you're there. 1:07:27.800 --> 1:07:30.360 Twelve has that kind of size. 1:07:30.640 --> 1:07:32.800 What was that green before the changes like. 1:07:34.160 --> 1:07:38.280 It was pretty much well, it was about two thirds 1:07:38.320 --> 1:07:42.120 of size. It was pretty much back to front. It 1:07:42.280 --> 1:07:43.600 was a little this way with a. 1:07:43.680 --> 1:07:47.720 Little bit towards towards the lake. But the approach, the 1:07:47.760 --> 1:07:51.480 whole right side of the green was all rough. So 1:07:51.680 --> 1:07:54.840 we and it was and it had a little hump 1:07:54.920 --> 1:07:58.120 in it. So we cut that hump out, smoothed it out, 1:07:58.640 --> 1:08:01.840 brought that fairway around the side, and then put some 1:08:02.160 --> 1:08:03.120 some movement into it. 1:08:03.200 --> 1:08:05.040 And it's got this really right now. 1:08:05.120 --> 1:08:07.400 It's got this really nice sweale that runs off the 1:08:07.520 --> 1:08:13.680 back that visually looks like, you know, disaster, but knowing, 1:08:13.880 --> 1:08:17.040 knowing how it plays the mist, there is actually that 1:08:17.160 --> 1:08:17.840 pins back there. 1:08:17.880 --> 1:08:20.680 It's long because it'll stay up. It will run through 1:08:20.720 --> 1:08:21.680 that and stay. 1:08:22.200 --> 1:08:26.280 Disaster on the front part of the green. That putt 1:08:26.400 --> 1:08:30.360 is brutal going up, Yeah it is. I had it 1:08:30.479 --> 1:08:33.160 the last time I played it. I thought I hit 1:08:33.200 --> 1:08:35.200 a really good shot and it grabbed and came back 1:08:35.280 --> 1:08:38.040 down that ridge and it's not a good spot to 1:08:38.120 --> 1:08:42.240 be yeah at all. That's a it's a beautiful golf 1:08:42.280 --> 1:08:42.920 a yeah. 1:08:43.080 --> 1:08:45.920 And and from there it continues to get interesting with 1:08:46.760 --> 1:08:52.120 fourteen's you know, got this rolling, rolling shoot through those trees, 1:08:52.640 --> 1:08:55.880 and then sixteen, which is such a fantastic golfl. 1:08:55.600 --> 1:09:00.880 Now it's got the length back, it's it's for the 1:09:01.000 --> 1:09:03.400 top level players. It's really fantastic. 1:09:03.400 --> 1:09:07.519 How do you know? I imagine and I saw the 1:09:09.000 --> 1:09:12.320 members just end up in that bottom part so much 1:09:12.600 --> 1:09:15.200 like that's got to be just a huge traffic area 1:09:15.280 --> 1:09:17.439 for you. If it is, how do you and you 1:09:17.560 --> 1:09:21.080 guys get so many rounds to three? I mean it's booked, right, 1:09:21.960 --> 1:09:25.040 How do you manage areas like that? Like? Do you 1:09:25.120 --> 1:09:27.280 have a strategy towards them? Yeah? 1:09:27.400 --> 1:09:30.000 So from a from a purely maintenance standpoint, what we 1:09:30.160 --> 1:09:35.360 do is, rather than painting ground under repair with white paint, 1:09:35.960 --> 1:09:39.360 we tack rope down on the ground and circle it 1:09:39.520 --> 1:09:42.120 as if it were paint in a white rope, put 1:09:42.160 --> 1:09:44.800 a sign on their ground under repair, and we put 1:09:44.920 --> 1:09:47.240 drop areas off of the intermediate cut and we and 1:09:47.360 --> 1:09:49.840 we do that for outings on Mondays, and do it 1:09:49.920 --> 1:09:54.160 for like most heavy active guest play days Monday through Thursday. 1:09:54.720 --> 1:09:57.080 And then when we start to gravitate more to our 1:09:57.160 --> 1:09:59.800 member play on Friday afternoon, Saturday and Sunday, we pull 1:09:59.840 --> 1:10:04.040 it and that that that way most people that land 1:10:04.120 --> 1:10:05.880 down in there, you know, and a lot of guys 1:10:05.920 --> 1:10:08.400 that are here just playing, unless they're an early great golfer, 1:10:08.920 --> 1:10:11.640 are are going to choose to take it, put it 1:10:11.760 --> 1:10:12.760 on a fluffier. 1:10:12.439 --> 1:10:15.639 Lie to hit that that pitch back up that hill, 1:10:16.040 --> 1:10:18.040 and it saves on dibbots. So that's how we do it. 1:10:18.160 --> 1:10:20.960 From a maintenance standpoint, we've looked and we've tried to 1:10:21.200 --> 1:10:22.840 put a little bit of movement in there to move 1:10:22.920 --> 1:10:23.479 balls away. 1:10:24.000 --> 1:10:26.800 And the water probably sits down there a little bit 1:10:26.840 --> 1:10:28.280 more too, which is when. 1:10:28.200 --> 1:10:29.400 We did the Greens project. 1:10:29.439 --> 1:10:32.080 What we did to firm that bottom up was we 1:10:32.360 --> 1:10:36.840 excavated that that entire bottom area out six inches, capped 1:10:36.880 --> 1:10:38.960 it with sand, and put some surface drainage in it 1:10:39.080 --> 1:10:39.280 so it. 1:10:39.320 --> 1:10:40.280 Stays a little firmer. 1:10:40.800 --> 1:10:45.000 But we looked at closing the fairway off and making 1:10:45.000 --> 1:10:48.040 it rough, and this was all, yeah, these are all 1:10:48.080 --> 1:10:50.880 ideas pitched at Reese, you know, putting a bunker right 1:10:50.960 --> 1:10:54.120 in there, and and Reese just held firm like, hey, Curtis, 1:10:54.160 --> 1:10:55.360 you got to come up with a way to build 1:10:55.360 --> 1:10:57.200 these divots and get them to grow, because I don't 1:10:57.240 --> 1:10:59.560 want to change it. And I'm glad that was his 1:10:59.640 --> 1:11:02.519 position because I think that the holes better that way. 1:11:02.400 --> 1:11:04.519 And watch the balls roll back down to your feet 1:11:04.560 --> 1:11:09.599 that way. That's right, So golf, Yeah, I can't get 1:11:09.680 --> 1:11:10.000 rid of that. 1:11:10.200 --> 1:11:10.800 Yeah, that's right. 1:11:11.760 --> 1:11:15.799 It's all right. We do this overrated underrated segment. 1:11:16.000 --> 1:11:17.160 Okay, So you got pick. 1:11:18.320 --> 1:11:25.000 So we're gonna go from the way MEDYNA members perceive 1:11:25.120 --> 1:11:28.000 the course, okay, and we're going to go through each 1:11:28.080 --> 1:11:30.679 of the courses overrated under eight and you have to pick. 1:11:31.880 --> 1:11:34.559 So course number one the. 1:11:34.600 --> 1:11:38.519 Way from the perspective of the MEDYNA members the greater. 1:11:38.760 --> 1:11:44.120 Yeah, the average mind of MEDYNA member underrated. Yeah, I 1:11:44.280 --> 1:11:47.400 heard it. People don't understand those greens. 1:11:47.360 --> 1:11:50.479 Right, Yeah, you hear some of that. These days. 1:11:51.040 --> 1:11:54.400 You know, it's still busy, they're still playing it. We 1:11:54.520 --> 1:11:58.160 got plenty of guest rounds. But you know, there's there's 1:11:58.160 --> 1:12:01.559 a few greens out there that I think we're we're 1:12:02.040 --> 1:12:04.280 I think are personally, I think are great, but they 1:12:04.880 --> 1:12:06.240 challenge people and they're not. 1:12:06.920 --> 1:12:09.280 That design is unique. 1:12:10.439 --> 1:12:12.559 It fits the lay of the land, it fits the sight, 1:12:12.800 --> 1:12:15.720 but it's different, and I think that's what is the 1:12:15.800 --> 1:12:17.280 hardest thing for them to ax up. 1:12:17.640 --> 1:12:22.880 Is that. Yeah, it's amazing how yeah, changes in just 1:12:23.120 --> 1:12:28.160 any sure aspect of society is like frightening for people. 1:12:28.400 --> 1:12:31.000 And you know, this is a tough This is a 1:12:31.120 --> 1:12:33.640 tough segment for me because you know, having built all 1:12:33.720 --> 1:12:35.800 these three, they're like my you know, you know what 1:12:35.840 --> 1:12:38.880 I mean, Like you know, I feel like I a 1:12:39.040 --> 1:12:41.400 part of me is you know, they're like my kids 1:12:41.439 --> 1:12:42.720 in a lot of ways, you know. So I mean 1:12:42.800 --> 1:12:44.479 it's picking one kid over the other. 1:12:44.800 --> 1:12:46.720 I had time out. I think he said, you might 1:12:46.760 --> 1:12:49.800 have said overrated to everything I said, just because that's 1:12:49.840 --> 1:12:50.720 his personality. 1:12:52.320 --> 1:12:54.880 Well, I definitely think that that. 1:12:55.080 --> 1:13:00.479 In the last twelve months, let's just say, uh, of 1:13:00.520 --> 1:13:04.639 course one has gotten some unaccurate criticism, and I think 1:13:04.720 --> 1:13:06.040 that it's underrated. 1:13:06.720 --> 1:13:09.560 I bet if you explain some of those screens, I 1:13:09.640 --> 1:13:11.840 bet there's some bumps that people could play off of. 1:13:12.120 --> 1:13:15.240 And it's one of the things I think is people 1:13:15.320 --> 1:13:18.519 don't understand strategy when it's a little when it's different, 1:13:18.640 --> 1:13:20.639 when it's not just the center of the faariraway, center 1:13:20.720 --> 1:13:22.840 of the green, like you know, the three is really 1:13:22.960 --> 1:13:25.400 right in front of you, and that one probably has 1:13:25.439 --> 1:13:29.120 a lot more subtlety and a little bit more thought 1:13:29.479 --> 1:13:32.479 and positioning, like if you're over on the right side 1:13:32.479 --> 1:13:35.080 of this fairway and the pins here, like, don't hit 1:13:35.120 --> 1:13:37.760 it at the pen, hit it like twenty feet left 1:13:37.800 --> 1:13:39.200 and I'll probably filter all the way in. 1:13:39.439 --> 1:13:39.840 That's right. 1:13:41.400 --> 1:13:44.599 It's hard for its. Yeah, once you do it once though, 1:13:44.640 --> 1:13:46.639 that you see that happens, Like I think there needs 1:13:46.680 --> 1:13:49.160 to be like a guide or something sometimes, you. 1:13:49.200 --> 1:13:51.200 Know, and we've got there's a lot of short grass, 1:13:51.520 --> 1:13:53.200 so you know, you've got to learn to kind of 1:13:53.240 --> 1:13:55.360 bump and run and play a tight pitch. 1:13:55.479 --> 1:13:58.920 And that's not typical either, you know. And so I 1:13:59.000 --> 1:14:01.560 think that you know, when Tom, when I played with 1:14:01.640 --> 1:14:02.960 Tom on opening day. 1:14:03.640 --> 1:14:06.639 He chipped all over that golf course with the seven 1:14:06.680 --> 1:14:11.840 irons all day long, hits, yeah, and very effectively, you know. 1:14:11.920 --> 1:14:14.280 And I was wondering, is he making a point with this? 1:14:14.520 --> 1:14:16.960 Is that what he's trying to like get this across 1:14:17.120 --> 1:14:19.519 to those of us playing with him, This is how 1:14:19.520 --> 1:14:19.960 you should do it. 1:14:20.000 --> 1:14:22.680 But hey, you know, the more the more I hear 1:14:23.280 --> 1:14:24.960 some of the things people don't like, the more I 1:14:25.520 --> 1:14:27.880 think they all approach that approach it with that strategy 1:14:27.920 --> 1:14:28.439 a little more. 1:14:28.800 --> 1:14:31.360 So I was I played with him, and I was 1:14:31.520 --> 1:14:34.559 hitting a. I had a shot and I was short 1:14:34.680 --> 1:14:37.160 and he and he looked and he goes, you hit 1:14:37.280 --> 1:14:40.200 a loblunch here, and I go yeah, he goes, you 1:14:40.240 --> 1:14:42.160 don't even think. I'm like, yeah, this is this is 1:14:42.680 --> 1:14:46.639 what I would say ninety percent of like good amateur player, 1:14:46.680 --> 1:14:49.200 like tournament amateur players would hit this shot. He goes, 1:14:49.240 --> 1:14:51.600 you would never hit like an eight iron. So like 1:14:51.680 --> 1:14:53.320 I hit that, and I hit an eight iron and 1:14:53.400 --> 1:14:56.760 I was like, wow, that's really easy. And like I've 1:14:56.800 --> 1:14:59.840 started to hit more of those shots since. Like I 1:15:00.160 --> 1:15:02.719 never even like it never even came to my mind 1:15:03.280 --> 1:15:06.240 to use the ground, but he uses it everywhere. Yeah, 1:15:07.160 --> 1:15:11.040 he hit shots like you're like, I would never think 1:15:11.080 --> 1:15:13.400 about hitting a seven. Irony hits it and he's like, yeah, 1:15:13.439 --> 1:15:15.320 you see the ground goes this way and comes back, 1:15:15.400 --> 1:15:17.240 so you know it's just gonna go right to it. 1:15:17.600 --> 1:15:18.920 It's kind of crazy. 1:15:19.160 --> 1:15:21.160 Yeah, you know, No, he's got it down there, that's 1:15:21.200 --> 1:15:21.599 for sure. 1:15:21.760 --> 1:15:24.920 Yeah. It's people just need to experiment more. 1:15:25.200 --> 1:15:31.360 Yeah, definitely, So of course too, you know, that's a 1:15:31.439 --> 1:15:33.360 hard one to you know, it might be too soon. 1:15:33.439 --> 1:15:34.240 It might be too soon. 1:15:34.320 --> 1:15:35.800 I think you feel like there's a buzz. 1:15:36.439 --> 1:15:40.439 There's definitely a buzz, you know, the the the t 1:15:40.640 --> 1:15:43.479 sheet is filling up as the summer is going on 1:15:43.800 --> 1:15:48.200 every month to a higher level. We haven't had anybody 1:15:48.800 --> 1:15:50.360 not in saying they don't like. 1:15:50.439 --> 1:15:54.519 Something about it. I played it a couple of times myself. 1:15:54.600 --> 1:15:55.559 I love playing it's. 1:15:55.640 --> 1:15:57.240 I don't know, we'll have to see, you know, I 1:15:57.320 --> 1:16:01.320 mean it's it's It's really been a great compliment to 1:16:01.400 --> 1:16:03.560 the other two and that's what it was intended to be. 1:16:03.720 --> 1:16:07.240 And that's that makes the Dina members portfolio just I 1:16:07.320 --> 1:16:08.240 think stand apart. 1:16:08.360 --> 1:16:11.120 But in terms of a golf course at Court golf Course, 1:16:11.479 --> 1:16:12.400 we need a little more time. 1:16:12.720 --> 1:16:17.280 But what about that, of course, like are you most 1:16:17.360 --> 1:16:25.320 proud of since it's the most recent you know, rebuild, renovate, restoration. 1:16:25.000 --> 1:16:30.960 Really well, you know I I I'm most proud of 1:16:33.240 --> 1:16:34.360 how we were able to. 1:16:38.439 --> 1:16:42.519 To brighten the original shaping that came out in a 1:16:42.600 --> 1:16:45.960 way that looked like looked looked natural, that that we 1:16:46.040 --> 1:16:52.360 were able to to to modernize things we're applicable, brighten 1:16:52.479 --> 1:16:55.880 and restore things we're applicable, and make it look like 1:16:56.040 --> 1:16:59.320 it's been there for a while and not not. It 1:16:59.400 --> 1:17:02.160 doesn't look like we moved dirt to do anything and 1:17:02.360 --> 1:17:05.960 that was the goal. And and you know, I'm really 1:17:05.960 --> 1:17:06.360 proud of that. 1:17:06.800 --> 1:17:10.640 Yeah, it's it's cool. I love that place than you. 1:17:11.080 --> 1:17:15.080 It's uh, it's like more more, need more of that, 1:17:15.520 --> 1:17:17.920 especially at Like I mean, I feel like more Chicago 1:17:18.040 --> 1:17:20.519 courses should be like that because like I always say 1:17:20.560 --> 1:17:23.120 this to clubs and like you're actually one of the 1:17:23.200 --> 1:17:26.599 clubs that can do the like the hard golf because 1:17:26.600 --> 1:17:30.240 I always say to like, you know people at clubs. 1:17:30.360 --> 1:17:33.479 Is like all right, so like you're in Chicago, Like 1:17:33.560 --> 1:17:36.280 why are you trying to be the hardest golf course 1:17:36.360 --> 1:17:38.680 in Chicago? Like you're never gonna be it when you 1:17:38.800 --> 1:17:43.880 got Madina Butler Madina three Butler in Olympia Fields, Like 1:17:44.240 --> 1:17:47.120 you're never gonna be as hard as those three golf courses. 1:17:47.520 --> 1:17:49.280 So like why are you trying to make your golf 1:17:49.320 --> 1:17:51.240 course hard? Why don't you try and make your golf 1:17:51.280 --> 1:17:54.680 course like the most fun golf course in Chicago? Right, 1:17:55.080 --> 1:17:58.080 And like number two is a perfect example of it 1:17:58.280 --> 1:18:01.880 being like the most fun. Like it was it's you know, 1:18:01.960 --> 1:18:04.560 you got drivable holes, you got short part threes, you 1:18:04.640 --> 1:18:07.920 got longer part threes. You hit, you hit like a 1:18:08.000 --> 1:18:11.040 lot almost all the clubs in your bag, which is awesome, 1:18:11.520 --> 1:18:14.720 and and the bunkering is beautiful. I mean, like the 1:18:14.800 --> 1:18:19.360 way you guys have those mowing lines rolling in. It's definitely. Ah, 1:18:20.160 --> 1:18:24.439 it's a modern it's it's a product of like what 1:18:24.800 --> 1:18:27.080 kind of like the trends of the industry, I imagine, 1:18:27.160 --> 1:18:27.360 you know. 1:18:27.960 --> 1:18:29.920 Yeah, for sure that was what we were shooting for. 1:18:30.439 --> 1:18:32.679 That's good to hear you say that. Yeah, it's cool. 1:18:32.920 --> 1:18:35.720 I recommend anybody that gets the chance to fight too. 1:18:36.040 --> 1:18:39.160 It's it's fun. Yeah, I heard a lot of buzz. 1:18:39.240 --> 1:18:41.320 I was I was really skeptical. I'm not the biggest 1:18:41.360 --> 1:18:44.360 Reese fan, Yeah, and I was. I was skeptical. But 1:18:44.479 --> 1:18:46.120 then I played, I saw it, I was like, wow, 1:18:46.200 --> 1:18:46.920 that was really good. 1:18:47.160 --> 1:18:49.840 Yeah, you know, Reese. 1:18:51.320 --> 1:18:55.439 What Reese needs to be credited for on that project, 1:18:55.520 --> 1:18:59.320 for sure, among other things, is is is. 1:18:59.360 --> 1:19:02.280 The fact that you know, he he let us, he 1:19:02.439 --> 1:19:03.000 let it happen. 1:19:03.120 --> 1:19:05.200 He you know, he showed up, and and when when 1:19:05.280 --> 1:19:08.559 we started doing stuff and and and working that stuff, 1:19:09.120 --> 1:19:12.360 the more the more different it got, the weirder it got, 1:19:12.520 --> 1:19:14.960 the the further away from what he had done before 1:19:15.040 --> 1:19:17.640 it got, the more excited he got, the more he 1:19:17.760 --> 1:19:18.880 encouraged it to keep going. 1:19:19.120 --> 1:19:21.320 Yeah, and I mean it was fantastic. You know. I 1:19:21.479 --> 1:19:23.880 was I wasn't sure how he was going to embrace this, 1:19:24.120 --> 1:19:26.040 this approach that was going to happen, and when we 1:19:26.160 --> 1:19:28.120 really we had talked about it, but when we started 1:19:28.160 --> 1:19:30.320 doing it, I wasn't sure how much he was going 1:19:30.400 --> 1:19:32.800 to do that. And he absolutely did. I mean he was. 1:19:33.280 --> 1:19:36.120 He got so excited that he kept I mean, we 1:19:36.240 --> 1:19:38.479 had a plan in terms of his number of visits 1:19:38.520 --> 1:19:40.839 and stuff like that, and like he blew that budget 1:19:40.880 --> 1:19:43.080 because he just kept wanting to come back, you know, 1:19:43.280 --> 1:19:45.040 and he liked it so much. So I give him 1:19:45.040 --> 1:19:48.680 a ton of credit for his you know, his just his. 1:19:50.160 --> 1:19:53.880 Ability to see to see it differently and to put 1:19:53.920 --> 1:19:54.559 it on the ground. 1:19:54.920 --> 1:19:56.800 That's what people need to do with number one. 1:19:57.240 --> 1:19:57.960 Yeah, that's right. 1:19:58.600 --> 1:20:01.479 Yeah, embrace the change, embrace the difference. 1:20:01.520 --> 1:20:03.160 That's right. That's exactly right. 1:20:03.360 --> 1:20:05.120 All right, last one, number three? 1:20:05.680 --> 1:20:08.400 All right, So we talked about it being long and challenging, 1:20:08.520 --> 1:20:11.200 got to drive the ball straight. So I but I'm 1:20:11.240 --> 1:20:13.880 going to say underrated, and I and I'm gonna say 1:20:13.920 --> 1:20:16.760 it from a perspective of a DYNA member, because it's 1:20:18.720 --> 1:20:25.479 well from a DINA members perspective, it's probably it's it 1:20:25.600 --> 1:20:31.080 might be a bit overrated, just switched. I just my perspective, 1:20:32.240 --> 1:20:37.080 what's one thing I forgot the so so from my perspective, 1:20:37.120 --> 1:20:39.800 it's underrated. I think it has a lot of from 1:20:39.840 --> 1:20:41.720 the right set of tees, it has a lot of 1:20:41.760 --> 1:20:48.679 shot values, It's got some some fantastic uh strategic elements. 1:20:49.080 --> 1:20:51.760 It forces you to think from the right set of 1:20:51.840 --> 1:20:54.840 tees based on your skill level. Okay, so that would 1:20:54.880 --> 1:20:56.920 apply to you from further back than it would for me. 1:20:57.240 --> 1:20:59.040 Yeah, I bet a lot of people play the wrong 1:20:59.160 --> 1:21:00.759 tees right. 1:21:00.800 --> 1:21:03.400 And and I and from a DIYNA members perspective, you know, 1:21:03.520 --> 1:21:06.120 they put you know, and it and and and in 1:21:06.600 --> 1:21:10.519 their defense, it's always been the one that that was 1:21:10.560 --> 1:21:11.160 the flagship. 1:21:11.200 --> 1:21:13.120 It's got to be the hard course, Yeah, it was. 1:21:13.320 --> 1:21:15.640 It was the flagship for them. It it holds all 1:21:15.640 --> 1:21:16.679 the tournaments to history. 1:21:16.760 --> 1:21:19.519 So it's you know, from there, from their standpoint, you know, 1:21:19.720 --> 1:21:23.240 it's they I think they overrated a bit because that 1:21:23.479 --> 1:21:25.080 was the one that was always the one that was 1:21:25.160 --> 1:21:27.320 kind of carrying the torch pull. 1:21:27.280 --> 1:21:31.120 Pulling the rest of the of the club along. And 1:21:31.600 --> 1:21:34.640 and now the club's much different. 1:21:34.360 --> 1:21:37.639 Than it was ten years ago, and you know, maybe 1:21:37.720 --> 1:21:40.200 that perspective from there will change for them. 1:21:40.600 --> 1:21:43.760 Yeah. I think I think it's okay though, Like I 1:21:44.320 --> 1:21:48.880 wrote about Olympia Fields last year and like you know, 1:21:49.160 --> 1:21:53.679 going there and playing like you're playing hard golf course. Yeah, 1:21:54.240 --> 1:21:56.639 and the hard is okay. Like if I was a member, 1:21:56.920 --> 1:22:01.280 I play three here probably like two times out of ten, 1:22:01.400 --> 1:22:04.360 maybe once out of ten. I you know, I don't 1:22:04.400 --> 1:22:06.920 need to go get my ass kicked for like five 1:22:07.000 --> 1:22:09.479 hours that often. But it's good to go do it 1:22:09.560 --> 1:22:12.360 every once in a while, right, right, right, But that's 1:22:12.400 --> 1:22:14.760 the beauty of having if you like. That's why I 1:22:14.840 --> 1:22:17.760 really like about about here and Olympia Fields is like 1:22:18.479 --> 1:22:21.880 if you have a really good golf course and you 1:22:22.000 --> 1:22:24.400 have like the South course of Olympia Fields is a 1:22:24.439 --> 1:22:27.000 lot of fun, and these two courses are a lot 1:22:27.040 --> 1:22:30.240 of fun one and two. So it's like why you know, 1:22:30.360 --> 1:22:32.679 you you don't have to play the really hard course 1:22:32.720 --> 1:22:36.320 every time, but like that's a you know, people people 1:22:36.400 --> 1:22:40.400 complain about Madina, you know, oh so long and hard. 1:22:40.439 --> 1:22:44.640 It's like, what did you expect? Major championship golf course? Right, 1:22:45.720 --> 1:22:48.080 there's some other like I you know, some other like 1:22:48.320 --> 1:22:50.439 I think like mod allions could be better. Like but 1:22:50.960 --> 1:22:54.320 like that's like, I mean that's just that. 1:22:54.760 --> 1:22:55.439 Yeah, you know, right. 1:22:55.800 --> 1:22:58.880 But but like the complain of it's long and hard, 1:22:59.080 --> 1:23:02.200 it's like, well, it's a PGA Championship golf course. 1:23:02.280 --> 1:23:03.760 Yeah, yeah, I like the answer to that is yeah, 1:23:03.800 --> 1:23:04.200 you're right. 1:23:04.360 --> 1:23:07.920 You know what it is supposed to be exactly, it's yeah. 1:23:08.120 --> 1:23:12.160 So but thanks for coming on this fun. 1:23:12.560 --> 1:23:13.519 Yeah, it was a blast. 1:23:13.600 --> 1:23:16.599 I really appreciate it, and uh, love of work you're 1:23:16.680 --> 1:23:20.280 doing and and really appreciate your you know, bringing the 1:23:20.640 --> 1:23:22.240 different sides of the industry out. 1:23:22.120 --> 1:23:25.040 To the to the to the world of golf and 1:23:25.320 --> 1:23:27.160 and keep it up. Man, really appreciate it. 1:23:27.160 --> 1:23:30.439 It's interesting. I get interested that I want to know 1:23:30.560 --> 1:23:32.040 as much as I know I can know. 1:23:32.560 --> 1:23:35.320 You know, that's awesome, man, I appreciate it. Thank you.