1 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 1: From Futro Media and PRX. It's Latino USA. I'm Mariano 2 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:20,079 Speaker 1: Rosa today part two of our series The Moving Border. 3 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: This time we travel south to Tabatula on the Mexico 4 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:28,000 Speaker 1: Guatemala border to look at what's happening to asylum seekers there. 5 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 1: Welcome to Latino USA. I'm Maria Rosa and dear listener. 6 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 1: Today we continue the story that we shared last week. 7 00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 1: This is part two of our series The Moving Border. 8 00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:48,640 Speaker 1: This is a deeply on the ground reported story that 9 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:53,360 Speaker 1: looks at asylum and at the somewhat secretive partnership between 10 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 1: Mexico and the United States to prevent migrants from crossing 11 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 1: the border. Award winning series originally aired in May of 12 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:06,680 Speaker 1: twenty twenty, when border policies were being made under the 13 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:12,200 Speaker 1: Trump administration. So with elections rapidly approaching and with immigration 14 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:15,399 Speaker 1: being a top issue for voters, we thought the time 15 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 1: was right to bring this story back to you now. 16 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 1: If you want to hear part one, catch it on 17 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:24,920 Speaker 1: the Latino USA podcast feed or at our website Latinousa 18 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:28,960 Speaker 1: dot org. And now here's the second part of The 19 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:34,200 Speaker 1: Moving Border. So we have just landed in Dabatula and 20 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:37,680 Speaker 1: it could not be more different than what is. It's Saturday, 21 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:41,480 Speaker 1: January eleventh, twenty twenty, and I've just landed in a 22 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:48,200 Speaker 1: small airport in Dabatula, on Mexico's southern border with Guatemala. Literally, 23 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 1: we went from the northernmost border in Mexico to the 24 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 1: southernmost border. We crossed the entire country of Mexico. I 25 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 1: check my no messages inside the airport, I rush to 26 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 1: baggage claim. I'm recording just a casey's outside. 27 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:13,120 Speaker 2: I don't see anybody, what I mean. 28 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:20,240 Speaker 1: I look at every young man I pass, hoping he'll 29 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 1: be here waiting for me. 30 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:28,359 Speaker 2: He's nowhere. That one of thoss, oh my eyes. 31 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 1: All I was hoping for was that he would be here, 32 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:37,360 Speaker 1: and he's not. He's just not. In our last episode, 33 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:40,440 Speaker 1: we reported about how the real wall that Trump has 34 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:44,640 Speaker 1: built is a paper wall, a wall of policies that 35 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:48,200 Speaker 1: push asylum seekers out of the US and into Mexico. 36 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:51,280 Speaker 1: We visited the northern border and met some of the 37 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 1: migrants stuck waiting for the chance to ask for asylum 38 00:02:54,360 --> 00:03:00,120 Speaker 1: in the US, a place they believe they'll find safety. 39 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 1: Now I've come to Tapachula on Mexico's southern border. It's 40 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:12,800 Speaker 1: another city filled with asylum seekers from all over the world. 41 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:16,120 Speaker 1: I'm here to find out why so many migrants are 42 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:20,240 Speaker 1: waiting here, almost two thousand miles away from the United States. 43 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 1: And there's another reason. I'm here to meet up with 44 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:28,960 Speaker 1: a twenty three year old hon Duram migrant named Josue, 45 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 1: whose story I've been following for a year now. We 46 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 1: plan to meet up here, but for the last few days, 47 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 1: Josue hasn't picked up his phone. 48 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:49,800 Speaker 3: I'm gonna call him right now. I don't even know 49 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 3: what to say. 50 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 1: It's a weird feeling, honestly, to be so anxious to 51 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 1: see him, because I don't really know this kid. I 52 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:01,560 Speaker 1: met him a year ago in Matamoros when I was 53 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:04,360 Speaker 1: interviewing migrants for a story about life at the US 54 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:08,120 Speaker 1: Mexico border. He was my son's age at the time, 55 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:12,240 Speaker 1: just twenty three, and he was sleeping under a bridge. 56 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 1: To see him alone in those conditions, it got to me. 57 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 1: We spoke for like maybe two minutes, and I gave 58 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:22,839 Speaker 1: him my card, just like I usually do with people 59 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:28,279 Speaker 1: I meet. But this kid, he actually called again and again. 60 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 1: One of those calls came from a detention center in Texas. 61 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:41,799 Speaker 1: It was his second attempt to get to the US, 62 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:45,239 Speaker 1: where presented himself and asked for asylum. At the border, 63 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:48,120 Speaker 1: he told officers he feared for his life if he 64 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:51,599 Speaker 1: was returned to Honduras, that he had been threatened by 65 00:04:51,640 --> 00:05:03,680 Speaker 1: the gangs Jim. Even though Josue passed his first credible 66 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 1: fear interview, ultimately he was deported back to Honduras anyway. 67 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:19,000 Speaker 1: Josuet then moved back in with his grandmother, the closest 68 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:21,920 Speaker 1: thing he still has to a parent. His mother died 69 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 1: of cancer while he was in detention, but he didn't 70 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:28,720 Speaker 1: stay in Londura's long Soon he was back on the 71 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 1: road north again, this time with his grandma in tow. 72 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 1: He crossed back into Mexico, and last time we spoke 73 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 1: he was here in Tapachula. He told me he was 74 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 1: petitioning for asylum here and this was the first time 75 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:53,920 Speaker 1: I heard about this new strategy migrants hoping to reach 76 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:58,359 Speaker 1: the United States by first applying for asylum in Mexico. 77 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:03,920 Speaker 1: And it turns out this is increasingly common because traveling 78 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:08,000 Speaker 1: to the northern border without legal documents has gotten harder 79 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:12,719 Speaker 1: and harder since Mexico has ramped up its own immigration enforcement. 80 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:17,880 Speaker 1: We'll talk more about that later. Right now, I'm determined 81 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:21,480 Speaker 1: to find Josue. After being in touch for so long, 82 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 1: this was the chance for me to finally really hear 83 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:27,279 Speaker 1: his story. And though I've spent a lot of time 84 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:31,560 Speaker 1: in Mexico, this place, that Bachula, is completely new to me, 85 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 1: So I'm going to need some help. Outside of the airport, 86 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:37,680 Speaker 1: I meet up with a local journalist named Mehamin Alfarro. 87 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 1: He's going to be helping me to report this story. 88 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:42,360 Speaker 1: When I have mean, Gilana, what's up? 89 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 2: I've got seen Leslie? I mean. 90 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:48,279 Speaker 1: In the car on the way to the hotel, I 91 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:50,440 Speaker 1: get a first glimpse of Tapachula. 92 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 2: Oh my god. 93 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:54,839 Speaker 1: The humidity is one hundred and ten percent and it 94 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 1: is beautiful and sweaty and like in the tropics. And 95 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:04,839 Speaker 1: it's so great is. 96 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 2: The mango. 97 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:15,480 Speaker 1: As we drive past fields of mangoes, plantains, and coffee. 98 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:18,840 Speaker 1: Mayhamin says, there's a saying here about the fertility of 99 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 1: this land. Through a seed on the ground, it'll growa 100 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 1: That's why there have always been so many migrants here, 101 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 1: he tells me, like Mexican farm workers in the United States, 102 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 1: for decades. He says, mostly Waatemalans have crossed the border 103 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:40,400 Speaker 1: to work seasonally in the fields here. In recent years, 104 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:44,240 Speaker 1: large numbers of migrants heading towards the United States have 105 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 1: landed in Dapachula. The majority are from Central America, but 106 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 1: there's also a growing number of people from Haiti, India, 107 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 1: and West Africa. Mexicans like Bejamen, who grew up here, 108 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:00,200 Speaker 1: are for the most part used to people coming and going, 109 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 1: and Tapachula is not a small town. The official count 110 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:07,080 Speaker 1: says the city has about three hundred thousand residents, but 111 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:13,400 Speaker 1: counting migrants, there's probably tens of thousands more. As we 112 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 1: arrive at my hotel, I asked Bejamen to do me 113 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:28,520 Speaker 1: a favor and try calling Hosue from his phone totally 114 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:37,800 Speaker 1: and nothing. So I go down to the hotel restaurant 115 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 1: to have dinner. But I can't help but think about 116 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 1: a question. Benjamin asked me. So he just heard me say, 117 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:48,600 Speaker 1: what what's happened with Hosue? And we're kind of thinking 118 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 1: that he's just like, it is strange that he disappears 119 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:54,200 Speaker 1: the day before you're coming, you know, is there a 120 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 1: potential that he's being kidnapped? Extorted because he's been in 121 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 1: communication with someone from the United States. I mean, we 122 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:07,840 Speaker 1: have no idea. It may sound like a stretch, but 123 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:11,640 Speaker 1: maybe it isn't, and that's because Josue has already been 124 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 1: a victim of crime here in Dapatula. It was last 125 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:21,679 Speaker 1: year after his grandmother had given up on migrating and 126 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:31,319 Speaker 1: left to go back to Anddudas. One day, hos West 127 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:34,079 Speaker 1: says he and three other hunter and guys were picked 128 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:37,120 Speaker 1: up near his shelter by a man who said he 129 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 1: had a job for them at a ranch. Host said 130 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 1: he needed the money, so he jumped at the chance 131 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:46,120 Speaker 1: to work. On the way, Host says they were told 132 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 1: that actually they were being hired to kill someone. It 133 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 1: sounds like a story straight out of a movie. Hosue 134 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 1: says he was able to jump out of the truck 135 00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:57,720 Speaker 1: and flee, and then he saw the news. 136 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:03,280 Speaker 4: Stiga Fiscalia in front Amiento qd jo. 137 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:05,479 Speaker 5: At tres personas Martas and Tapatula. 138 00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:10,400 Speaker 1: Three men had been found dead inside a truck. Graphic 139 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 1: photos of men with blood dripping down their faces flashed 140 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:17,000 Speaker 1: on the screen. Who swe believes the men were the 141 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 1: other Hondurans he was looking for work with. A month later, 142 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:25,080 Speaker 1: hosuezs he was robbed while selling doughnuts in the street. 143 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:28,480 Speaker 1: He filed a police report and also gave a statement 144 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 1: about what happened the day he jumped out of the truck. 145 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:35,560 Speaker 1: Shortly after Josue had to leave the shelter to make 146 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:39,640 Speaker 1: space for new arrivals. Without legal documents to work, and 147 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:43,560 Speaker 1: completely alone in Tapachula, he ended up living on the street, 148 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:47,120 Speaker 1: and that's where he still was. The last time we spoke, 149 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 1: just a few days ago. The last thing he said 150 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:55,480 Speaker 1: to me was that he was afraid someone would kill him. 151 00:10:55,559 --> 00:11:00,920 Speaker 6: It is nine twelve on Saturday, January eleventh, and we 152 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:04,800 Speaker 6: just finished dinner here in Tapachula. 153 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 1: All I do is I look out into the night 154 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:10,319 Speaker 1: and I'm like, where is this kid? Where is this kid? 155 00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:15,679 Speaker 1: That's all I'm asking myself. How did he disappear? And 156 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:21,120 Speaker 1: why did he disappear? The day before I get here, 157 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:24,800 Speaker 1: I try one more time and nothing. 158 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 6: He's gone, And I'm going to have to try and 159 00:11:52,040 --> 00:11:54,720 Speaker 6: find this guy in a city that I've never been to, 160 00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 6: where there are hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of Central 161 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 6: American migrants during young men in their twenties just like him, 162 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:12,280 Speaker 6: and now I've got to find him. 163 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:16,640 Speaker 1: Coming up, Mayhamen and I go looking for Jussue. Stay 164 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:46,400 Speaker 1: with us, Yes, hey, we're back. So the next morning, 165 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 1: Mehamena and I set off to see if we can 166 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:53,079 Speaker 1: find clues as to Jussue's whereabouts. We visit key spots 167 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:56,400 Speaker 1: or migrants around the Patula, which gives me a chance 168 00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:59,840 Speaker 1: to understand what migration looks like here on the southern border. 169 00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 1: So I'm just fascinated because we have now walked. I 170 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 1: guess we're going to go up these stairs and we're 171 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:09,080 Speaker 1: going to see the river. But there's like a mural 172 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:13,440 Speaker 1: painted on these stairs and it says, welcome yemnidos to 173 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:18,920 Speaker 1: Baso el Koyote, Welcome to the El Koyote crossing. First 174 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:22,079 Speaker 1: we go to see the Succiatte River, and that's the 175 00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 1: river that separates Mexico from its southern neighbor, Guatemala. So 176 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:32,960 Speaker 1: there is a legal and a less legal way to 177 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:36,720 Speaker 1: cross this border. The actual international bridge and official port 178 00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:39,680 Speaker 1: of entry is visible from where I'm standing. It's less 179 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:43,080 Speaker 1: than a mile down, but this unofficial crossing is the 180 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:47,760 Speaker 1: more popular one. We watch as people right across the 181 00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:54,240 Speaker 1: river into Mexico on makeshift rafts and on top of 182 00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 1: big inner tubes, like you've got two huge inner tubes, 183 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:03,320 Speaker 1: you've just got planks of So the most basic kind 184 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:09,280 Speaker 1: of transportation. They mostly seem to be students and workers. 185 00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:13,360 Speaker 1: Others cross to Mexico to do their shopping. After all, 186 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:16,960 Speaker 1: there is a Walmart in Tapachula here and there, though, 187 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 1: tired looking young men with backpacks hop on alone and 188 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:25,920 Speaker 1: in small groups. So one of the things that I'm 189 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:28,640 Speaker 1: thinking a lot about as I'm standing on this river 190 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:33,760 Speaker 1: between Gatemala and Mexico, is is this where Houswa crossed. 191 00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:37,760 Speaker 1: Then I see a well dressed older man in khakis 192 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:40,080 Speaker 1: and a pink polo shirt board a raft from the 193 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:44,480 Speaker 1: Waatemalan side. He's holding a briefcase and he almost seems 194 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:50,040 Speaker 1: out of place. An you stay there on this, give 195 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 1: you an asad. 196 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:52,680 Speaker 5: So i ma extro soo same tan. 197 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:58,760 Speaker 1: His name is Freddy, He's Guatemalan, sixty years old. He 198 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:01,880 Speaker 1: works in Mexico as a teacher, and says he crosses 199 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:05,360 Speaker 1: to Tapachula on a raft because it's easier and faster 200 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:06,960 Speaker 1: than the official crossing. 201 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:23,880 Speaker 7: Por kihiri la hinte, and you don't have a problem. 202 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:26,400 Speaker 1: He's quick to point out that no one bothers him 203 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:29,560 Speaker 1: because they kind of know who the locals are, and 204 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:39,000 Speaker 1: he doesn't look like a migrant. What before we move on, 205 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 1: I ask Freddie what he teaches. He says, customs. You're 206 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 1: a professor who teaches about border crossing and customs, but 207 00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 1: you're crossing in an illegal crossing? Is cistoso pro I? 208 00:15:54,120 --> 00:16:03,440 Speaker 1: That's just how things are here in Tapachula, he tells me. 209 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:07,080 Speaker 1: Mexico's southern border has always been more relaxed than the 210 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:11,240 Speaker 1: one up north. Like the customs teacher Freddie, most people 211 00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:13,840 Speaker 1: who live around here don't think much of crossing back 212 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:18,000 Speaker 1: and forth, legally or not. But recently this border has 213 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 1: tightened up. That's due in part to the arrival of 214 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:26,840 Speaker 1: the Mexican National Guard La Warria Nacioniti. The National Guard 215 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:31,040 Speaker 1: is President Lopez Obrador's new security force, which we mentioned 216 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:33,960 Speaker 1: last episode. It's the one that was created to help 217 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:38,520 Speaker 1: fight crime, but has been deployed to enforce immigration instead. 218 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:42,560 Speaker 1: In January, the National Guard made news at this crossing 219 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:46,720 Speaker 1: point when it scuffled with a big caravan making its 220 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:51,320 Speaker 1: way from Central America, using force on migrants and making 221 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:52,440 Speaker 1: mass arrests. 222 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 2: Now. 223 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:54,920 Speaker 8: Whatever you think of this so called caravan, whether you 224 00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:58,000 Speaker 8: see them as refugees or invaders, one thing is clear tonight. 225 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:00,520 Speaker 8: They're in a standoff right now with an army of 226 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:02,960 Speaker 8: Mexican federales, and tensions are running high. 227 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:07,960 Speaker 1: It was another example of Mexico's president fulfilling his promise 228 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:15,520 Speaker 1: to the United States to crack down on migration. But 229 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:18,240 Speaker 1: today at the river, it doesn't really look like the 230 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:21,440 Speaker 1: National Guard is doing much. For close to an hour, 231 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:25,280 Speaker 1: we've watched people crossing illegally in rafts across the border 232 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:29,400 Speaker 1: right in their line of sight. And then a very 233 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:45,840 Speaker 1: official looking, uniformed man approaches me, Maria. He writes my 234 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:48,359 Speaker 1: name down in a beat up little notebook that he 235 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:51,040 Speaker 1: slips right back into his pocket. He tells me that 236 00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:53,359 Speaker 1: his name is Sergeant Rnandez and that he's with the 237 00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:57,240 Speaker 1: National Guard. So I ask him what exactly their role here. 238 00:17:57,240 --> 00:18:00,320 Speaker 5: Is, Mira. 239 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 1: He tells me their job is to support immigration agents. 240 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:09,200 Speaker 1: For the most part, he tells me, they don't really 241 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:12,680 Speaker 1: bother the Guatemalan citizens who cross back and forth daily, 242 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:16,800 Speaker 1: but they approach others and check their idea, looking for 243 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:20,360 Speaker 1: Haitians or Hondurance for example, people like. 244 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:31,919 Speaker 5: Josue and migrants restamos see ye moments migracion. 245 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:40,280 Speaker 1: He's quick to tell me that they don't detain migrants. 246 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:44,480 Speaker 1: They rescue them. He says, they rescue them by turning 247 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:47,760 Speaker 1: them over to immigration so they can quote learn about 248 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:52,680 Speaker 1: their options in Mexico. So where do these rescued migrants. 249 00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:57,639 Speaker 5: Goplex commerce. 250 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:03,200 Speaker 1: They're taken to a place where they can eat and rest, 251 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:07,440 Speaker 1: he says, It's called Sigramino. Now, if you're imagining that 252 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 1: Siegrovo is a shelter, you couldn't be more wrong. It's 253 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:16,480 Speaker 1: actually a huge immigrant detention center here in Tapachura. We 254 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:21,560 Speaker 1: decide to head there. Next. On our way, we come 255 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:24,920 Speaker 1: across an immigration checkpoint, much like the ones the Border 256 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 1: Patrol sets up near the border in the United States. Okay, 257 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:32,359 Speaker 1: so we're driving through a checkpoint. There is on the 258 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:36,200 Speaker 1: left side, UH pickup truck with lights flashing. There is 259 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:41,159 Speaker 1: a but we're not stopped. They wave us through behind us, 260 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:47,879 Speaker 1: though a van is pulled over. Bighamen says, these random 261 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:52,200 Speaker 1: militarized roadblocks have been popping up everywhere in recent years, 262 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:56,879 Speaker 1: and so has the military, with their pickups masked soldiers 263 00:19:56,960 --> 00:20:00,520 Speaker 1: and automatic weapons. And they're not just here in the Batula, 264 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:03,879 Speaker 1: they're on all the major roads leading out of the city, 265 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 1: and they pop in and out along popular routes for 266 00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:11,360 Speaker 1: migrants all the way to the northern border, including railroad 267 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 1: tracks and bus stations. In fact, advocates say it's so 268 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:18,240 Speaker 1: hard now for asylum seekers to get to the US 269 00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:23,200 Speaker 1: border without being detained by some Mexican authority that many 270 00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:26,159 Speaker 1: have been stuck here in Tappachula hoping to get some 271 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:29,080 Speaker 1: kind of legal status that will make it easier to 272 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 1: travel through the country. For years, Mexico mostly turned a 273 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 1: blind eye to migrants transiting north, But now with large 274 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:43,080 Speaker 1: caravans of migrants from Central America arriving and the news 275 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:47,119 Speaker 1: cameras that followed, pressure to stop the flow was increasing. 276 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:51,280 Speaker 9: Thousands of migrants marching north through Mexico hoping to reach 277 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:51,840 Speaker 9: the US. 278 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 10: President Trump calling it a quote national emergency, vowing to 279 00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:57,000 Speaker 10: send in the US military. 280 00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:02,480 Speaker 1: In January of twenty nineteen, Mexico rolled out a humanitarian visa. 281 00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:06,800 Speaker 1: The visa basically provided temporary legal status for one year, 282 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:11,480 Speaker 1: allowing migrants to work and more importantly, travel legally. Mexico 283 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:14,679 Speaker 1: shutting down a fast track program for temporary asylum, allowing 284 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:19,280 Speaker 1: migrants to stay in Mexico. But so many people applied 285 00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:23,000 Speaker 1: for the humanitarian visa that the Mexican government ended the 286 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:26,960 Speaker 1: program in less than two weeks. When they brought it 287 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:29,800 Speaker 1: back just a couple of months later, the requirements were 288 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:33,200 Speaker 1: tightened so much it was now nearly impossible to get 289 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:37,119 Speaker 1: one approved. So the other option was to apply for 290 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:41,640 Speaker 1: asylum in Mexico, which more than seventy thousand people did 291 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:47,120 Speaker 1: last year. Most of those applications have been filed here 292 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:51,320 Speaker 1: in Tapachula. Some of these applicants will choose to settle 293 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 1: in Mexico. They realized that getting into the US is 294 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:58,240 Speaker 1: just too hard now. But many seemed to be applying 295 00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:01,040 Speaker 1: with the hope that once they had I have legal status, 296 00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:03,639 Speaker 1: they can use it to travel safely and make it 297 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:07,080 Speaker 1: to the US border. And that's what Josuer was doing 298 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:13,920 Speaker 1: here last time we spoke. The local refugee office is 299 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:18,000 Speaker 1: overwhelmed with applications right now. More than half of all 300 00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:21,480 Speaker 1: cases have been pending for a year. In the time 301 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:24,480 Speaker 1: that asylum seekers wait for a resolution to their case, 302 00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:28,400 Speaker 1: they're not allowed to leave Tapachula. They have to check 303 00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:31,320 Speaker 1: in weekly or bi weekly to keep their cases active, 304 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 1: and in many cases they're sent for some period of 305 00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:44,240 Speaker 1: time to Sigrovenguno, Tapachula's sprawling immigrant detention center. They wouldn't 306 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:47,760 Speaker 1: let us in to see the facility, so we're here now, 307 00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:51,000 Speaker 1: climbing to get a better view from a nearby hill 308 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:55,720 Speaker 1: that overlooks it. Sieglovenguno is the largest immigrant detention center 309 00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 1: in Mexico. It's where the National Guard sergeant told me 310 00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:05,159 Speaker 1: that they send rescued migrants from here, I see a 311 00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:11,320 Speaker 1: large prison yard. Wow, look how big it is. All 312 00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:14,520 Speaker 1: you really see from here are you know? The roof 313 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:19,720 Speaker 1: coverings long white. All I'm seeing is like I think, 314 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:23,399 Speaker 1: a line of people. You know, if you didn't know 315 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:25,600 Speaker 1: any better, you would say, oh, well, it's a school 316 00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:30,280 Speaker 1: with a very big yard. But then you realize that 317 00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:32,840 Speaker 1: there's a watchtower, and that means that they are watching 318 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:35,200 Speaker 1: to make sure that nobody gets out, and there's a 319 00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:39,280 Speaker 1: huge wall that goes all around it, so you clearly 320 00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:40,480 Speaker 1: cannot climb out. 321 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:53,880 Speaker 7: Migrantes I Potosi Poco master Canestal. 322 00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:01,480 Speaker 1: On the San Mahaman tell me the detention center is 323 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:06,080 Speaker 1: so overcrowded. It's supposed to house about nine hundred people, 324 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,800 Speaker 1: but up to two thousand have been crammed together. He 325 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:13,639 Speaker 1: says that recently migrants leaked photos of people sleeping in 326 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:17,960 Speaker 1: the bathrooms, one on top of another. In April of 327 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:23,199 Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, more than one thousand migrants, including families with children, 328 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:27,720 Speaker 1: broke out of Siglo Entiuno after a dispute over lack 329 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:33,800 Speaker 1: of food, sanitation and overcrowding. By the way, we reached 330 00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:36,719 Speaker 1: out to President Lopez O Rador's office, as well as 331 00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:40,520 Speaker 1: to other senior members of his administration for comment. Our 332 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:47,280 Speaker 1: requests were all denied. So far, I've seen the outskirts 333 00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:50,760 Speaker 1: of Tapachula, but now we're finally heading into the city. 334 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 1: I want to search for houssuais in the central Plaza, 335 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:56,600 Speaker 1: which is a place I knew he used to go 336 00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:01,800 Speaker 1: to a lot at the I'm surprised to see just 337 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:05,960 Speaker 1: how diverse Tapachula is. It's buzzing with live music and 338 00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:10,199 Speaker 1: street vendors of all kinds. So we are in the plaza, 339 00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:14,320 Speaker 1: the Central Plaza. There's a lot of activity at Sunday afternoon, 340 00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:16,720 Speaker 1: which is when everybody comes to the plaza to get 341 00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:20,680 Speaker 1: your shoes shine, to stay with your girlfriend to have 342 00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:23,720 Speaker 1: a cup of coffee or a drink. And there is 343 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:28,080 Speaker 1: some football game that is happening. I don't know anything 344 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:30,399 Speaker 1: about football, but there's a football game that's going on, 345 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:33,600 Speaker 1: so we are here to look and see what's going on. 346 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:38,000 Speaker 1: I meet a man from Haiti who approached me when 347 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,399 Speaker 1: he saw I had a microphone. He told me that 348 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:43,879 Speaker 1: he's been stuck here for months waiting for asylum, and 349 00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:58,720 Speaker 1: the weight, he says, is far from easy. He says 350 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:01,960 Speaker 1: there are many Haitians here, families with four or five kids, 351 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:04,600 Speaker 1: and the parents can't work and don't have money for 352 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:07,760 Speaker 1: food or diapers. He's been here for five months, but 353 00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:09,960 Speaker 1: he still doesn't have a work per me, so he's 354 00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:13,040 Speaker 1: selling cold bottles of water in the plaza to support 355 00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:26,160 Speaker 1: his family. Okakia, there's nothing for him here in Tapachula. 356 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:29,400 Speaker 1: He tells me. He's trying to get to Tijuana. There 357 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:31,480 Speaker 1: he hopes his family in the US will be able 358 00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:34,040 Speaker 1: to help him pay for a coyote to try and 359 00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 1: smuggle him across the border. Before I leave, I take 360 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:40,040 Speaker 1: out my phone and pull up a photo of Jsue 361 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:43,240 Speaker 1: and ask him if he's seen him. Do ask mist 362 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:46,680 Speaker 1: Stapersonata persona. 363 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:51,200 Speaker 2: I moved ok Plaza. 364 00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:53,880 Speaker 1: He says, there are a lot of guys who could 365 00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:57,680 Speaker 1: look like him here. In the end, I don't get anywhere. 366 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:05,640 Speaker 1: Later on, I stopped by Albergue El Buen Pastor. It's 367 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,920 Speaker 1: a shelter that I know haswell lived in for a while. 368 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:11,639 Speaker 1: We've been following the case of a young man for 369 00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:15,280 Speaker 1: many months now, and he was here, and I want 370 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:19,960 Speaker 1: to know if you recognize him. It is Tjaki Recognoss. 371 00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:23,280 Speaker 1: Can you tell me what you know about him? 372 00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:23,679 Speaker 3: Qua. 373 00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:31,680 Speaker 1: I don't find any clues as to his whereabouts here, 374 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:35,520 Speaker 1: but I do meet Sister Urga, who says she remembers 375 00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:38,359 Speaker 1: Usue but hasn't seen him in a while. She's been 376 00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:42,320 Speaker 1: running this house for migrants for decades. Sister Orga says 377 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:46,159 Speaker 1: she used to have an army of volunteers. Now no 378 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:47,800 Speaker 1: one really shows up to help anymore. 379 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:58,920 Speaker 11: OI for oil Giano Miramos is a hinte particular mouras 380 00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:07,480 Speaker 11: Sister Mui Inumanomo Migrante. 381 00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:12,800 Speaker 1: She says Tapachula is becoming more racist and inhumane. That 382 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:17,880 Speaker 1: everybody complains about wanting migrants gone, and it's not just here. 383 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:21,239 Speaker 1: The caravans used to be greeted all over Mexico by 384 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:24,880 Speaker 1: well wishers handing out medicine, food, and water. But those 385 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:26,000 Speaker 1: days have passed. 386 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:32,120 Speaker 10: This is what an anti migrant protest looks like in Mexico. 387 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:35,960 Speaker 10: There's anger and waving of Mexican flags and signs like 388 00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:39,880 Speaker 10: this one, which translates to no to the invasion. 389 00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:44,200 Speaker 1: Sister Orga says, when migrants were just passing through here, 390 00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:48,040 Speaker 1: maybe it was easier to be more compassionate. But now, 391 00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 1: she says, the asylum process keeps people stuck here. So 392 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:54,840 Speaker 1: they're in the blassas, they're lined up outside government buildings, 393 00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:59,280 Speaker 1: they're sleeping in the streets, and Tapatula is in Mexico's 394 00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:04,640 Speaker 1: poorest date Chiapas. Resources here are limited and migrants are 395 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:09,080 Speaker 1: an easy target for people to take out their frustrations. Now, 396 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:12,720 Speaker 1: without helping hands to make ends meet at the shelter, 397 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:15,400 Speaker 1: Sister Orga has had to come up with a new 398 00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:30,360 Speaker 1: plans to support the shelter and themselves. The migrants take 399 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:34,520 Speaker 1: part in a donut baking and selling operation. For now, 400 00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:39,040 Speaker 1: it's just enough to scrape by the next morning, at breakfast, 401 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:44,400 Speaker 1: my phone rings. It's a video call finally from Jusue. 402 00:29:54,720 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 1: That's coming up. Stay with us. Okay, we're back at 403 00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:41,480 Speaker 1: long last. I received a video call from Hosue. It's 404 00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:44,200 Speaker 1: the first time I'm seeing his face since we met 405 00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:53,240 Speaker 1: a year ago in Tempo Devisto non Devisto, and after everything, 406 00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:57,160 Speaker 1: it turns out he's not in Tapachula at all. He's 407 00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:01,960 Speaker 1: back home in Onduas. Husswet flips the camera on his 408 00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:08,640 Speaker 1: phone and shows me he's using the Wi Fi at 409 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:19,000 Speaker 1: a cafe inte Wusia, the capitol. Huswe tells me he 410 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:23,200 Speaker 1: left Tapachula the day before I arrived, that some guys 411 00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:25,760 Speaker 1: had beat him up in the market, and that he says, 412 00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:28,680 Speaker 1: he couldn't take it anymore. He was scared, always thinking 413 00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:31,640 Speaker 1: that someone was right over his shoulder, coming to punish 414 00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:34,920 Speaker 1: him for finding that police report after he jumped out 415 00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:37,760 Speaker 1: of that truck, or that the gangs he ran away 416 00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:42,160 Speaker 1: from in Honduras would follow him here to Tapatula. After all, 417 00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:46,120 Speaker 1: it's really close, and there were Central American gang tags 418 00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:48,800 Speaker 1: on the walls all around town that I saw myself. 419 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:53,040 Speaker 1: In the end, Joswa took off back to Houdas. The 420 00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:55,640 Speaker 1: gangs were there too, but at least there he could 421 00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:58,240 Speaker 1: stay with his grandmother instead of sleeping on the streets. 422 00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:02,160 Speaker 1: But Mexican law says he must be present for in 423 00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:06,120 Speaker 1: person checkins with immigration while his asylum petition is pending. 424 00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:09,560 Speaker 1: So when Jrosue went to the asylum agency to let 425 00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:12,800 Speaker 1: them know he was leaving, that meant his asylum case 426 00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:17,480 Speaker 1: in Mexico would be closed. Three months waiting in Dapachula 427 00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:33,400 Speaker 1: was for nothing. Later that day, I have a chance 428 00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:35,880 Speaker 1: to meet with Alma Marquez. She's the head of the 429 00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:40,360 Speaker 1: refugee agency here in Dapachula. It's called Gomarre. I want 430 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:43,480 Speaker 1: to know what kind of protections the Mexican government is 431 00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:48,160 Speaker 1: supposed to offer to someone like Osue. You're a refugee, 432 00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:51,280 Speaker 1: You're leaving your home country and the place that is 433 00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:54,280 Speaker 1: supposed to be giving you safe haven isn't able to 434 00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:58,560 Speaker 1: protect you. Do you think those people should continue to 435 00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:01,360 Speaker 1: apply for refuge he status in Mexico if they've been 436 00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:04,760 Speaker 1: a victim of a crime in Mexico, or really should 437 00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:10,000 Speaker 1: they then be by international law allowed to apply to 438 00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:10,920 Speaker 1: another country? 439 00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:20,600 Speaker 12: Sits victim ade and Mexico pus thendras a tu rechnunciasco respond. 440 00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:25,400 Speaker 1: Alma says, anyone who is a victim should just go 441 00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:28,920 Speaker 1: to the police. Plus, she says there's a process to 442 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:31,880 Speaker 1: protect victims of crime. If O Sue had told them 443 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:34,800 Speaker 1: before he left to Hondudas that he was afraid, he 444 00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:37,720 Speaker 1: might have been able to be transferred out of Tapatula. 445 00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:42,120 Speaker 1: And then in the middle of speaking with Alma, I 446 00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:45,800 Speaker 1: get a call from Hosue nojswe is calling. Well, actually 447 00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:55,600 Speaker 1: hold on a second, Osue. We're talking about your case. 448 00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:58,360 Speaker 1: When you came to close your case, did you tell 449 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:10,840 Speaker 1: Comar why you were leaving? As he did tell an 450 00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:13,480 Speaker 1: official that his grandmother was worried about him because of 451 00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:16,640 Speaker 1: what happened, and he says he showed the official the 452 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:19,360 Speaker 1: report that he had made with the police. He says, 453 00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:22,960 Speaker 1: no one ever mentioned the possibility of moving him somewhere 454 00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:26,600 Speaker 1: safe elsewhere in Mexico like that, Like what do you 455 00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:31,640 Speaker 1: recommend to a young He's like so many other Hunduran 456 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:35,200 Speaker 1: men right his life is under threat. He's afraid all 457 00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:38,000 Speaker 1: the time. He has people who have died all around him. 458 00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:41,040 Speaker 1: He feels that he could be killed at any moment. 459 00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:47,920 Speaker 12: We have to check the case because I cannot give 460 00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:51,240 Speaker 12: you right now my point of view of the case. 461 00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:59,799 Speaker 1: And then Alma ads in Spanish, who's to a Centramedica. Well, 462 00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:05,160 Speaker 1: I've been doing this for fifteen years, she says, dealing 463 00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:08,879 Speaker 1: with Central Americans, I know them. Well, you can't get 464 00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:14,080 Speaker 1: stuck on one case. In the end, Josue may not 465 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:18,840 Speaker 1: have used the right words to trigger special protections, and 466 00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:23,520 Speaker 1: it's hard to believe asylum policy sometimes comes down to 467 00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:25,600 Speaker 1: just that words. 468 00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:31,160 Speaker 12: But even if he had, porque porque, Cacramsel says, and 469 00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:35,760 Speaker 12: Tasinko percent loss and Taysinko. 470 00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:44,799 Speaker 1: Doesn't Almaz sixty five percent of all asylum seekers are 471 00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:48,120 Speaker 1: here in Tapachula. They could all say they want to 472 00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:50,759 Speaker 1: move to a different city, and it's not like she 473 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:54,400 Speaker 1: can move them all. The larger problem, Alma says is 474 00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:59,520 Speaker 1: Mexico's asylum system is sorely underfunded and understaffed. While the 475 00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:03,080 Speaker 1: agency budget was doubled from the year before, it's just 476 00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:06,160 Speaker 1: a little over two million dollars for twenty twenty, and 477 00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:10,120 Speaker 1: most of their financial support is coming from outside of Mexico. 478 00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:13,880 Speaker 1: And we'll get into that a bit more later. By 479 00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:18,000 Speaker 1: Mexican law, asylum claims are supposed to be resolved in 480 00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:23,320 Speaker 1: fifty five days, not over a year. Last year, the 481 00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:27,520 Speaker 1: agency only ended up granting refugee status to less than 482 00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:32,480 Speaker 1: two thousand people from Hondura's Guatemala and El Salvador, even 483 00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:36,680 Speaker 1: though more than seventy thousand applications were submitted in total. 484 00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:49,360 Speaker 1: If we zoom out for a second, the recent hoswif 485 00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:52,560 Speaker 1: found himself seeking asylum here in Tapachula in the first 486 00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:56,000 Speaker 1: place instead of the United States, where he hoped to 487 00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:59,920 Speaker 1: eventually make it is because Mexico has been developing its 488 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:05,520 Speaker 1: self as an asylum destination, you could say, an alternative 489 00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:09,279 Speaker 1: to the US. And that's in part because Mexico is 490 00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:12,400 Speaker 1: getting help and encouragement to do this both from the 491 00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:18,000 Speaker 1: United States and from the UNHCR that's short for United 492 00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:25,520 Speaker 1: Nations High Commissioner for Refugees. We made our way to 493 00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:31,440 Speaker 1: their office in Dapachula. Okay, so we are standing. We're 494 00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:38,279 Speaker 1: kind of in a residential neighborhood in Dapachula, so far 495 00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:44,480 Speaker 1: away from downtown, corner building here with high security. There's 496 00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:47,960 Speaker 1: a camera out front. There's some you know, razor not 497 00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:50,560 Speaker 1: razor wire, but there's wiring around and it says in 498 00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:54,239 Speaker 1: all white and it says UNHCR AC and you are 499 00:37:54,400 --> 00:38:00,200 Speaker 1: Lahincia de Las the United Nations Agency for Refugees. There 500 00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:04,640 Speaker 1: are no lines here or asylum seekers waiting outside. It 501 00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:09,040 Speaker 1: almost feels like this place is out of their reach now. 502 00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:12,759 Speaker 1: The UNHCR was created after World War Two to make 503 00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:17,520 Speaker 1: sure that what happened then would never happen again. Jews 504 00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:20,480 Speaker 1: who tried to escape the Holocaust were denied entry to 505 00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:24,799 Speaker 1: almost every country in the world. Many were famously turned back, 506 00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:30,040 Speaker 1: only to meet their deaths. So this international agency's mission 507 00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:34,680 Speaker 1: is to protect refugees and asylum seekers. Today in Mexico, 508 00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:37,760 Speaker 1: it works with the government to come up with systems 509 00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:41,560 Speaker 1: to process and admit asylum seekers, and they have a 510 00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:54,120 Speaker 1: sixty million dollar budget this year to contribute to Mexico's efforts. Today, 511 00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:57,520 Speaker 1: we're here to meet with Giovanni Lipperty. He's the deputy 512 00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:02,560 Speaker 1: representative with UNHCR Mexico. I told him the details of 513 00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:06,360 Speaker 1: Hosswe's case to get his take on why Hoswad didn't 514 00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:08,560 Speaker 1: receive any kind of special protection. 515 00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:11,920 Speaker 13: This looks like one of the real genuine cases in 516 00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:18,840 Speaker 13: which the person that you're describing all the reason and 517 00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:23,160 Speaker 13: the right to have an alternative to move somewhere else. 518 00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:26,800 Speaker 13: In that sense, I think that it's a problem to 519 00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:30,000 Speaker 13: say that it did somehow fail into the cracks, and 520 00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:31,759 Speaker 13: unfortunately probably is not the only one. 521 00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:36,239 Speaker 1: Giovanni says, while they've made progress, there's still a long 522 00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:39,560 Speaker 1: way to go in getting the asylum system to work 523 00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:42,960 Speaker 1: the way it should. I wanted to know more broadly 524 00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:46,240 Speaker 1: why you and HDR was here in Mexico. 525 00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:50,759 Speaker 14: Specifically, each and every country should be a country where 526 00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:53,720 Speaker 14: there are opportunities for people that are need of interational protection. 527 00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:58,080 Speaker 14: I think that Mexico is today one of the countries 528 00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:05,680 Speaker 14: that could offer opportunities and possibility for integration of refugees 529 00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:10,239 Speaker 14: much better than many many other countries, that would put 530 00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:14,719 Speaker 14: as the top developed country in the world. The fact that. 531 00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:21,040 Speaker 13: Employment there is plenty of opportunity. There are plenty of opportunities. 532 00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:31,880 Speaker 1: The migrants we spoke to in Tapachula might disagree about 533 00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:35,719 Speaker 1: that notion of plenty of opportunity in Mexico for them. 534 00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:40,800 Speaker 1: Giovanni says, the UN is just trying to help, But 535 00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:44,759 Speaker 1: there's a question of whether diverting migrants from making it 536 00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:47,480 Speaker 1: to the United States by giving them a chance to 537 00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:52,840 Speaker 1: stay in Mexico is actually helping them. Yes, Mexico is 538 00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:56,760 Speaker 1: a larger and more prosperous country than the Central American nations, 539 00:40:57,520 --> 00:40:59,799 Speaker 1: but it suffers from many of the same issues around 540 00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:07,359 Speaker 1: as the places migrants are escaping from. Take Postwest case. 541 00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:12,200 Speaker 1: At various points he was homeless, unable to work, hungry, 542 00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:17,239 Speaker 1: and nearly killed. Here is this what safety looks like 543 00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:22,160 Speaker 1: for him? And it turns out there's a word for 544 00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:24,960 Speaker 1: what's happening here in Mexico because it's part of a 545 00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:28,600 Speaker 1: global trend called externalization. 546 00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:34,360 Speaker 15: Externalization, where states are gradually pushing the aboarders outwards and 547 00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:38,600 Speaker 15: making it increasingly impossible for refugees and asylum seekers to 548 00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:42,360 Speaker 15: even reach the territory of the world's most prosperous states. 549 00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:46,360 Speaker 1: This is Jeff Crisp. We reached him in London. He 550 00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:49,120 Speaker 1: spent many years as a higher up at the UNHCR. 551 00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:55,120 Speaker 1: Since leaving, he's been highly critical of the organization and externalization, 552 00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:57,000 Speaker 1: he says, And this. 553 00:41:57,160 --> 00:42:01,640 Speaker 15: Is a global trend in the industrial world. It's a 554 00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:05,760 Speaker 15: policy being pursued by the United States, by the European Union, 555 00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:07,640 Speaker 15: and by Australia. 556 00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:11,680 Speaker 1: It's also happening, for example, in Libya, where the European 557 00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:15,600 Speaker 1: Union is funding the local government to intercept migrants at 558 00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:19,560 Speaker 1: sea and put them into tention in dismal conditions, and 559 00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:22,960 Speaker 1: in Australia, where asylum seekers have been sent to camps 560 00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:27,680 Speaker 1: on remote Pacific islands, it means migrants are being corralled 561 00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:31,480 Speaker 1: into poorer countries where they aren't necessarily better off than 562 00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:35,400 Speaker 1: where they started, and Jeff says the UNHCR is in 563 00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:38,680 Speaker 1: a tough position to do anything about it, in part 564 00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:40,839 Speaker 1: because of the source of its money. 565 00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:46,480 Speaker 15: It's become increasingly constrained in recent years as governments have 566 00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:51,239 Speaker 15: pursued more restrictive refugee and asylum policies. And one of 567 00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:57,440 Speaker 15: my arguments has been recently that unh is very worried 568 00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:02,000 Speaker 15: about losing US support, and the US provides around forty 569 00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:09,800 Speaker 15: percent of the organization's budget. Partly, I would argue, because 570 00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:12,400 Speaker 15: EU and Asia depends so heavily on the US for 571 00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:17,160 Speaker 15: its funding, it's been very wary, in my opinion, of 572 00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:21,400 Speaker 15: actually going out in public and criticizing the policies pursued 573 00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:22,680 Speaker 15: by Donald Trump. 574 00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:43,400 Speaker 1: It's the first week of March Down. I'm back in 575 00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:46,200 Speaker 1: New York City and I get a call from Jusue. 576 00:43:55,239 --> 00:43:57,680 Speaker 1: I can't believe what he tells me. He's decided to 577 00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:01,280 Speaker 1: go back to Mexico. He's leave in just a few days. 578 00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:06,359 Speaker 1: He's headed back to Tapatula, and then right before he's 579 00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:09,000 Speaker 1: about to make the trip, w JOE. 580 00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:14,200 Speaker 4: Has been assessing this outbreak around the clock, and we're 581 00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:20,240 Speaker 4: deeply concerned. We have therefore made the assessment that COVID 582 00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:24,240 Speaker 4: nineteen can be characterized as a pandemic. 583 00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:28,240 Speaker 1: Mexico and Watemla, like many other countries around the world, 584 00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:32,480 Speaker 1: announced they might close their borders due to the coronavirus pandemic, 585 00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:36,600 Speaker 1: but virus or not. On the second week of March, 586 00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:40,400 Speaker 1: oswe hitch tide back to Tapachula, making it out of 587 00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:45,319 Speaker 1: Gatemala just before it closed its borders. Once in Tapachula, 588 00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:49,480 Speaker 1: oswe Ween and Garaminian at Comar, the refugee office, he 589 00:44:49,680 --> 00:45:05,080 Speaker 1: records it on his phone. You kill you, He says. 590 00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:08,399 Speaker 1: He wants to reopen his case, but they tell him 591 00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:11,799 Speaker 1: bad news. They say that the document he signed when 592 00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:15,480 Speaker 1: he left in January means he abandoned his case and 593 00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:18,279 Speaker 1: that if he wants to apply for asylum he needs 594 00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:22,200 Speaker 1: to start over the process. They say could take another year. 595 00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:25,160 Speaker 1: Another year of waiting in Tapachula. 596 00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:34,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, losient. 597 00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:42,160 Speaker 1: Osue says his desperation is growing. With lockdowns in place, 598 00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:44,120 Speaker 1: there's no work and that. 599 00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:54,640 Speaker 2: Means no food, so I reck, I also think that 600 00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:55,080 Speaker 2: are you not? 601 00:45:56,440 --> 00:45:59,360 Speaker 1: Sometimes he has to skip meals and he's on the 602 00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:02,600 Speaker 1: verge of being homeless again. And many years that the 603 00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:06,560 Speaker 1: refugee office is going to be closed through June. That 604 00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:12,160 Speaker 1: weight he was dreading it keeps on extending. Gomar is closed, 605 00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:16,920 Speaker 1: so his paperwork just sits there, much like he does waiting. 606 00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:25,760 Speaker 1: How long do you think you'll stay in Mexico? Oh, quadroos, 607 00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:33,240 Speaker 1: he says. Now he's thinking he'll ultimately stay in Mexico 608 00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:37,120 Speaker 1: for a while, maybe four years or less if possible, 609 00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:39,560 Speaker 1: if he can get to the United States, where he 610 00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:46,080 Speaker 1: really wants to be. Kiss significatus is yo kiros the 611 00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:49,680 Speaker 1: geant significa parati. 612 00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:55,800 Speaker 2: Yi. 613 00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:02,920 Speaker 1: I ask Josue what does getting to the United States 614 00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:06,880 Speaker 1: mean to him, and he says a chance to do 615 00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:16,160 Speaker 1: better in life. Josue has now made four attempts to 616 00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:18,960 Speaker 1: make it to the United States and spent years of 617 00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:23,120 Speaker 1: his life all to end up here in Tapachula with 618 00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:26,360 Speaker 1: nothing to show for it. He's happy to be alive, 619 00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:39,920 Speaker 1: is about all he can say. Just recently, I get 620 00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:43,680 Speaker 1: another message from Jsue. He's a little bit desperate. He 621 00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:46,520 Speaker 1: tells me he's feeling sick with a high fever, cough 622 00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:49,680 Speaker 1: and body aches, and he can't find any medical help. 623 00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:57,960 Speaker 1: He's wondering if maybe it's the coronavirus, but after all, 624 00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:01,760 Speaker 1: he's gone through a deadly virus is just another addition 625 00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:52,560 Speaker 1: to his long list of fears. This episode was produced 626 00:48:52,560 --> 00:48:56,400 Speaker 1: by Julieta Martinelli, Fernando Ca Marena and myself. It was 627 00:48:56,600 --> 00:49:00,200 Speaker 1: edited by Marlin Bishop and mixed by Stephanie Lebau and 628 00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:04,759 Speaker 1: Lia shaw Dameran. The executive producer is Diane Sylvester. The 629 00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:08,359 Speaker 1: Movieing Border series was produced in partnership with the Bulletzer Center, 630 00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:12,440 Speaker 1: with additional support by the Ford Foundation. Fact checking for 631 00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:16,600 Speaker 1: this episode by Amy Tardif. The Latino USA team includes 632 00:49:17,080 --> 00:49:22,320 Speaker 1: Julia Caruso, Jessica Ellis, Victoria Estrada, Renaldo Leanoz Junior, Andrea 633 00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:27,360 Speaker 1: Lopez Gruzsado, Luis Luna, Ldi, mar Marquez, Marta Martinez, Mike Sargent, 634 00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:31,719 Speaker 1: Nursaudi and Nancy Crujillo. Benilei Ramirez is our co executive 635 00:49:31,719 --> 00:49:35,320 Speaker 1: producer along with myself and I'm your host Maria no Josa. 636 00:49:35,640 --> 00:49:38,319 Speaker 1: Remember you can find Latino USA on your podcast feed. 637 00:49:38,719 --> 00:49:42,680 Speaker 1: Also on our website, which is Latinousa dot org. You'll 638 00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:46,040 Speaker 1: find extended versions of our stories dropping every Friday and Sunday, 639 00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:50,840 Speaker 1: so subscribe to Latino USA wherever you get your podcasts. 640 00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:53,520 Speaker 1: Join me again on our next episode. In the meantime, 641 00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:56,640 Speaker 1: I'll see you on all of our social media and remember, 642 00:49:57,080 --> 00:49:59,520 Speaker 1: don't leave Na te bayas bye. 643 00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:06,360 Speaker 9: Latino USA is made possible in part by the Heising 644 00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:13,640 Speaker 9: Simons Foundation, unlocking knowledge, opportunity, and possibilities more at hsfoundation 645 00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:17,719 Speaker 9: dot org. Latino USA is made possible in part by 646 00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:22,719 Speaker 9: the John D. And Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation and the 647 00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:26,560 Speaker 9: Ford Foundation, working with visionaries on the front lines of 648 00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:28,160 Speaker 9: social change worldwide.