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Speaker 1: This is me eat podcast coming at you shirtless, severely

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Speaker 1: bug bitten and in my case, underwear listening podcast. You

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Speaker 1: can't predict anything presented by first Light, Go farther, stay longer. Okay,

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Speaker 1: quick round introductions. I'm gonna go the opposite way you

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Speaker 1: do that, you deal Poker Spencer, New Heart brand. We'll

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Speaker 1: talk about this brand new like I thought you're too

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Speaker 1: old for tattoo, brand new tattoo. Uh, Sam Longern with

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Speaker 1: his with his his? Uh, I don't know what. I

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Speaker 1: don't know if I don't I don't know if I

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Speaker 1: believe that's dry age? Is dry age? Dear meat sitting here?

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Speaker 1: We'll talk about that. I don't know what to call

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Speaker 1: it either. Uh. Crunch Niner's here, of course, and she

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Speaker 1: has a desiccated partial fox skeleton that she's running around

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Speaker 1: with trying to figure out how to make an art

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Speaker 1: project out of it. Phil the Engineer, Brody and special guest.

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Speaker 1: Rachel Schmidt so currently Director of Innovative Alliances for back

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Speaker 1: Country Hunters Anglers like a staffer. Yeah, full time, no volunteer, garbage, no,

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Speaker 1: no volunteer anymore paid member. Um Rachel, you asked about

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Speaker 1: these little wooden boxes in front of you. They're beautiful. Okay,

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Speaker 1: we finally got it. We're not really into it, we're not.

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Speaker 1: We finally got our like interest meter. So everybody that's

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Speaker 1: everybody in the studio has their own wooden box and

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Speaker 1: and they're beautiful, like very artisan. It's like an artisan

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Speaker 1: interest meter. Everybody has a wooden box as on off

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Speaker 1: switch and a dial. And if they're we're not going

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Speaker 1: to do this officially yet, but if they find something interesting,

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Speaker 1: like watch, let me tell this story. Okay, now, everybody

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Speaker 1: turn yours all the way down and I'm gonna tell

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Speaker 1: a story. I want to see how it works. We're

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Speaker 1: just me and my son, my ten year old. We're

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Speaker 1: sneaking up on a turkey the other day. Nothing yet,

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Speaker 1: and well it's just so okay. There's one red dot

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Speaker 1: just indicating it was on, and I just strike a

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Speaker 1: second red dot. We noticed a I notice, I'm I'm

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Speaker 1: walking point. I noticed a snapper turtle under someone just

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Speaker 1: lost interest because I loved because I was up front,

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Speaker 1: so that that lost interest. And I noticed under about

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Speaker 1: six inches of water, a snapping turtle laying there. I'm

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Speaker 1: getting interested now, so I say to my son James

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Speaker 1: and like, hey, watch, I'll show you how to sneak

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Speaker 1: up and grab one of these things. And I talked

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Speaker 1: about how you could tell by the shape of the

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Speaker 1: shell where his tail is. And I went up the bank,

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Speaker 1: kind of snuck down around, reached down under there, and

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Speaker 1: latched down to his tail and hauled him out. And

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Speaker 1: up comes not just one turtle, see it's already mated.

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Speaker 1: Not just one turtle comes up, but two turtles come up,

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Speaker 1: and their cloacas are like engorged making love. They were

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Speaker 1: making love. And you've got in the way of that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and the one So I lifted out the jacket of

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Speaker 1: both out of the water. The under one drops free

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Speaker 1: swims off um. And my boy, who doesn't like to

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Speaker 1: have an opportunity passing by, was adamant that we now

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Speaker 1: kill this turtle on butcher and cook it and and

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Speaker 1: just chift focus to that rather than the turkey or

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Speaker 1: after the turkeys in his mind, like that doesn't exist anymore.

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Speaker 1: And I was like, you're gonna have a mighty big job,

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Speaker 1: a hetty, if you're gonna saw that turtle's head off

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Speaker 1: with a pocket knife, because that's the only way to

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Speaker 1: do it, you know. And then I eventually talked to

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Speaker 1: him and letting the turtle go and so hopefully they

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Speaker 1: joined back up again. Now watch no, turn it back

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Speaker 1: up the full blast green lights there? What what? What? Like?

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Speaker 1: Nothing happened to be uninteresting or just it's fading. Now

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Speaker 1: watch watch what happens When I say, let's talk about tattoo,

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Speaker 1: injury and sex down Spencer's tattoo is just no, uh

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Speaker 1: what was that, Rachel say? I mean, you're halfway through

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Speaker 1: the story. You hit injury or sex. You're always you're

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Speaker 1: going to get the green. Yeah, it's gonna like that's

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Speaker 1: the cook the hook is there. So how can you

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Speaker 1: work those themes into that? Tell about what your tattoop? Is?

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Speaker 1: This your first tattoo? My first tattoos? Your wife have tattoo?

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Speaker 1: She has like six? Oh bro, do you don't have

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Speaker 1: your tattoos? Did your wife have a tattoo? No? I

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Speaker 1: miss that. I mean my wife were the only people

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Speaker 1: no tattoos. Now, I missed the window, you know, I

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Speaker 1: like went through that early nineties period and thought about

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Speaker 1: it and then just never did it. Well, I went

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Speaker 1: down to get one and I didn't get it. Then

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Speaker 1: I just got never made it there, My brother. My

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Speaker 1: brother Danny got the world's worst steel head. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it looked amazing thirty years ago, whatever the hell it

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Speaker 1: was when he was like, I don't know, he's twenty one,

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Speaker 1: twenty two years old. It looks amazing. He got a

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Speaker 1: steel head on his arm. And I was like, seventy

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Speaker 1: five bucks, right, And I was just burning up with jealousy.

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Speaker 1: So I'm like, wanting to get a fly. I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: get a steel head. Flocks. We used to catch a

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Speaker 1: lot of steel head in Michigan. So I was gonna

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Speaker 1: go down and I go down there and I had

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Speaker 1: seventy dollars and the guys like seventy five, and I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I only got seventy. And that's why I don't have

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Speaker 1: a tattoo. Today. You could have found tattollars. With a

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Speaker 1: change in your just you would be regretting that tattoo

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Speaker 1: so much. Now. I have many tattoos, because how many

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Speaker 1: tattoos you have on you, you're not gonna drop your

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Speaker 1: short sorry tattoo lower lower back, well my reaching up

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Speaker 1: the ribs. Yeah. My first one is a is a

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Speaker 1: dry fly. It's the first dry fly my grandfather ever

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Speaker 1: taught me how to tie. It's a royal wolf. And

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Speaker 1: so I got that tattoo in the late nineties before

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Speaker 1: they were called tramp stamps when you get one back,

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Speaker 1: so it wasn't a thing. So I got it right there,

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Speaker 1: and then they became known as tramp stamps. But by

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Speaker 1: that time I was just collecting flies and they're just

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Speaker 1: wrapping up my back. I've got three saltwater flies coming next. Zomi,

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Speaker 1: do you have right now? Uh? Not? Nine? Whoa Spencer?

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Speaker 1: You got some work to do. So Spencer got to

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Speaker 1: tell us again what it is. This it's about ten

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Speaker 1: inches long, probably about two and a half inches wide,

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Speaker 1: it's biggest. It is a black hill spruce. She's the

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Speaker 1: state tree of South Dakota only found. It's native to

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Speaker 1: the Black Hills of South Dakota and Wyoming. Looks like

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Speaker 1: track marks running up his arm at a passing at

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Speaker 1: a passing glance, you think he was a junkie. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's no like that tattoo. Thank you. See I want

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Speaker 1: to get Uh. I saw a guy that had a tattoo.

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Speaker 1: It was the North American continent, okay, and he had

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Speaker 1: a little turkey foot all the places where he killed

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Speaker 1: his his royal slam. I like that, So what's thinking

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Speaker 1: about doing that? What's the appropriate age for tattoo? You

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Speaker 1: said I'm too old. I was just teasing. I don't think.

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Speaker 1: I think it does seem like most tattoos occur between

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Speaker 1: the ages of eighteen and twenty two. Though, yeah, there's

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Speaker 1: the age when people are susceptible to tattoo artists. I

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Speaker 1: feel like that's shifted, though, very much shifted. That was

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Speaker 1: that was the time that I thought a lot about it,

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Speaker 1: but then it's just continued to fade it. I tried

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Speaker 1: to get mine in nineteen my fly, it's not too late.

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Speaker 1: So my wife has stem Stephen Fever come on, cultivate

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Speaker 1: the rock star image a little more. Um. We did

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Speaker 1: get the turkey that we the snap turtle turkey, so uh,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't his first turkey, because he got another turkey

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Speaker 1: this year in Wisconsin. But we snuck in on a

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Speaker 1: stratter and got pretty like a hundred yards from him

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Speaker 1: and started calling at him, and he finally turned and

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Speaker 1: was kind of coming and also to Jake popped up

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Speaker 1: like twenty yards away. It just also in hears his

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Speaker 1: head and I told James, shoo, shoot shoot, and he

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Speaker 1: shot it, and uh he was this is like, this

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Speaker 1: is embarrassing to admit, but he was like he didn't

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Speaker 1: say it, but you can tell he was like bummed.

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Speaker 1: It was a jake. But he already at that precious

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Speaker 1: innocent age, it's already registered. I was like, man, I

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Speaker 1: didn't know about that kind of stuff to I was

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Speaker 1: thirty years old. We just thought turkeys like turkeys of turkeys, man,

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Speaker 1: who cares already already like, I want to see its spurs.

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Speaker 1: There's no spurs. I couldn't believe it, literally, none, no spurs. No.

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Speaker 1: I just had a little works, you know, little nubbins. Um. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so that happened, which is my fault because when he

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Speaker 1: got his first turkey, it was a long beard with spurs.

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Speaker 1: And so we're all celebrate, you know what I mean,

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Speaker 1: you can't. You can't if you celebrate the highs and

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Speaker 1: people become aware of the lows. So that was a problem. Um.

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Speaker 1: And then we caught um and think quite that's not

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Speaker 1: quite fair. Almost caught a soft shell turtle that same

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Speaker 1: day too. I found in the Queen Mother of All

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Speaker 1: turtle trap and I want to go to the Queen

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Speaker 1: Mother of All turtle trapping spots. Well. Um, for a

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Speaker 1: while in high school, I would sell him for a

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Speaker 1: dollar a pound turtle soup meat. But you had to

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Speaker 1: take the carapace off. Had got him and take the

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Speaker 1: carapace off? What did you do with the shells? Various stuff?

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Speaker 1: Give him away? Paint him. I used to paint him

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Speaker 1: the inside. I'd paint like the color of the binding

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Speaker 1: on a National geographic magazine, like yellow and lacquer or

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Speaker 1: the top of their sweet. So when's the last time

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Speaker 1: you kill the snapper and ade him? Oh? A couple

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Speaker 1: of years ago I got one bowl fishing in Kentucky.

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Speaker 1: Moving on. Okay, Now, Brody explained, what how in your truck? Uh?

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Speaker 1: Is that turkey camp at Janice's secret turkey spot and

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Speaker 1: which I know about? Yeah, you know the general zone. Um,

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Speaker 1: and uh, everything's going great for like three days, we're

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Speaker 1: killing turkeys, and it rains the last night we're there,

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Speaker 1: and I had I was pulling my camper. So I

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Speaker 1: decided after the morning hunt to go check the road

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Speaker 1: out to see if I could even get the camper

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Speaker 1: out of there, and got like fifty yards from camp,

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Speaker 1: put the truck in a ditch because it's all gumbo.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, bad bad, Um, you better explained gumbo. Most

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Speaker 1: a lot of people don't know what gumbo is. I

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Speaker 1: grew up Michigan versus Sandy. Yeah, this is this really greasy,

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Speaker 1: glooey mud that's impossible to drive in kind of clay

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Speaker 1: based expandable. And I actually even put chains on the

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Speaker 1: back of my truck and that made no difference because

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Speaker 1: it just the changes like the gumbo. So it was

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Speaker 1: just from snowmelt or rain or what. It's just overnight rain.

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Speaker 1: Wasn't even that doesn't take a whole lot, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's just like a steady rain. Yeah. Hunting those gumbo areas,

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Speaker 1: you can go into a spot and then I mean

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Speaker 1: it happens quite frequently. Um, if you drive in you know,

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Speaker 1: ten twenty miles whatever on gumbo roads and it rains

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Speaker 1: a lot of times, you gotta wait a day, right,

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Speaker 1: and we're supposed to go to work or whatever, and

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Speaker 1: you just can't. Manyeh, we're prepared to do that even

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Speaker 1: before the especially go on private if you're on um

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Speaker 1: private land, like we're hunting turkeys on a little chunk

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Speaker 1: of private land the other day. And uh, it was

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Speaker 1: very much like man you know, because then you pissed

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Speaker 1: people off, right, You don't want to be teared up

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Speaker 1: there Like the quickest way to get uninvited to branches

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Speaker 1: to go behind through their gumbo things and cut ruts

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Speaker 1: in it. Yeah, but either way, I won't mention the

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Speaker 1: manufacturer's name. Um, but I recently got a new truck,

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Speaker 1: and that truck has a white dogging on our trucks. Man, listen,

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Speaker 1: that skid plate that they put on those things, that

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Speaker 1: cloth material pressed cloth like that doesn't even qualify as

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Speaker 1: a skid plate. And when I slid into the ditch,

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Speaker 1: it just tore off. Yeah it's you know, it's over

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Speaker 1: the transmission. Um. Yeah, that was disappointing. So it tore

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Speaker 1: that off and poked a hole in the transmission fluid pan,

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Speaker 1: which I didn't know, so I got like that steel, No,

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Speaker 1: it's plastic. There's this whole new training fluid in Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: well here's what they tell you. They tell you that

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Speaker 1: it's about fuel efficiency and lightweight exactly. I will it's

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Speaker 1: the most popular truck in North America. I think it's

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Speaker 1: the best selling vehicle in the world. Yeah. I loved

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Speaker 1: it up until this point. Now I love it again

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Speaker 1: because it's fixed. But I love It's like having an

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Speaker 1: apartment building. Yeah, if you got dogs and gear, Yeah

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Speaker 1: it's great. Uh. Anyway, I got stranded for a couple

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Speaker 1: days while the thing was getting fixed, which interestingly, it's

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Speaker 1: kind of like the Bermuda Triangle of Turkey Spot exactly

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Speaker 1: because Yanni had Yannie got stranded Yanni's brother in law.

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Speaker 1: But j honest was kind of the fact I was

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Speaker 1: stranded with him because his brother in law's truck broke

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Speaker 1: down the same spot last year. Do you feel like

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Speaker 1: your kids into turkey hunting? No, you were saying you

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Speaker 1: got you liked it? Oh yeah, he said he's he

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Speaker 1: wants to do that more than kill a deer because

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Speaker 1: he got to see the whole show. You know, three

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Speaker 1: gobblers messing around and one came down, and yeah it

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Speaker 1: was cool. He liked it, yeah big time. Did you

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Speaker 1: like doing that gripping grin? Oh yeah, yeah, he liked that. Uh, Brodie,

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Speaker 1: what were you saying, like, Cody Luhan? Yeah, oh sent

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Speaker 1: us this thing. Um, so this is the same river.

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Speaker 1: I'm not being very clear. We have a friend Cody Luhan.

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Speaker 1: I think he's on the show, though he was at

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Speaker 1: the live podcast in Denver, the very first one he

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Speaker 1: has been on the show. He um big New Mexico,

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Speaker 1: Colorado guy. He found a he found a buffalo skull

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Speaker 1: on the y'all say Yampa, right, I say yampa. Johanna

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Speaker 1: says yampa, which I think is correct. It's ah. I

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Speaker 1: believe it's the last. It's one of the last major

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Speaker 1: rivers in Colorado that's considered undamned flowing dumps into the

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Speaker 1: Green or yeah, no, yeah, dumps into the Green River.

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Speaker 1: You know, our own friendly Yellowstone River here is the

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Speaker 1: longest and man, they used to want to damn that

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Speaker 1: thinks so damn bad. Now it's now it's like pride thing.

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Speaker 1: They'll never do it. Oh yeah, people fighting him off

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Speaker 1: tooth and nails to try to keep him from damn it. No,

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Speaker 1: everybody runs around top Abo, how cool it is. It

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Speaker 1: is not damned. They were gonna put a bunch of

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Speaker 1: damns and a bunch of I think coal fired power

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Speaker 1: plants along it enough and which would draw enough water

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Speaker 1: to d water the Yellowstone. That sounds a good at

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Speaker 1: one point. Can you imagine including damning the Paradise Valley too,

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Speaker 1: That was a proposal. You imagine having a big right there.

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you what well, I had a controversial idea

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Speaker 1: about that, but I'm not gonna get into it. So

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Speaker 1: the Yampa, the Yampa um our friend Cody found a

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Speaker 1: school there and he sent us an article about this

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Speaker 1: kind of interesting the guy found quite a while ago,

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Speaker 1: but he just donated to museum. A guy found a

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Speaker 1: Bison Antiquois school along the Yampa and uh radio carbon dating.

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Speaker 1: They think it's about forty years old. He just donated

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Speaker 1: to the Museum of Northwest Colorado. But the reason I

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Speaker 1: bring this thing up is these I don't know what

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Speaker 1: the current story is on these things, but the old

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Speaker 1: understanding of it was that you had at the end

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Speaker 1: of the you know, during an interglacial period when glaciers

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Speaker 1: receded um step ice and came down and colonized the

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Speaker 1: lower forty eight like came down through the ice sheets

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Speaker 1: when they were receded from a melt, and then here

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Speaker 1: they were, and they kind of like poured forward on

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Speaker 1: this this landscape. That was that they didn't have any

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Speaker 1: real competitors, this big grassland grazer, and they were living

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Speaker 1: in areas that had recently been glaciated. Tons of Territory Forum.

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Speaker 1: Great conditions, and they sprouted horns six ft tip tip,

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Speaker 1: so more like like what you think of a water

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Speaker 1: buffalo horns like going out straight rather than I'm almost

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Speaker 1: more like buffles kind of got a muskoxy vibe to it,

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Speaker 1: you know, longhorn after you steam or after do they

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Speaker 1: steam it? Yeah? You know when you see those crazy ones,

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Speaker 1: they like steam them and change of shape on him.

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Speaker 1: It's real common. I did not know that. Yeah, I've

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Speaker 1: never heard that anyways, big, big gass long outside of

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Speaker 1: his heads, horns six ft tip the tip, this one

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Speaker 1: that donated the museum. It's just the cores, like the

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Speaker 1: sheaths are gone when you see one of those suckers,

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Speaker 1: but the sheets on it. Yeah, can you imagine one

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Speaker 1: and a half times the size of the current one

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Speaker 1: six ft tip tip big, that's obviously that. That's not

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Speaker 1: the kind you found that inspired you to write the book. No,

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Speaker 1: mine was just a Joe blow one. Now there's this

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Speaker 1: thing called horn coore morphology, which I was I became

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Speaker 1: a discipline of for a while, and it's like you

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Speaker 1: take all these relative measurements on on buffalo skulls and

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Speaker 1: you can kind of try to age it at least

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Speaker 1: like they used think they could do that with people

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Speaker 1: to not agent, but they used to think that they could,

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Speaker 1: like you know, like take measurements on your skulls and

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Speaker 1: who's smarter and not smarter? What it called, Yeah, like

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Speaker 1: you could tell like intelligent races by like eugenics. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was that based in like measuring people's skulls. And

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Speaker 1: I feel like it's teetering on that, like craniums are like, wow,

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Speaker 1: it looks like my skull's the smart kind um phrenology. Phrenology.

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Speaker 1: So I initially thought the one I found, the first

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Speaker 1: one I found, I found a couple of cents. Then

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Speaker 1: partially like not as cool as the first one. But

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Speaker 1: the first one I found an Initially I thought it

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Speaker 1: was an oldie, But then I had a radio carbon

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Speaker 1: dated and I had a genetic sample taken from it,

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Speaker 1: and it's just a regular one. And they think, what

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Speaker 1: the reason I like it is? They think that there's

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Speaker 1: a sixty six percent probability that it died within about

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Speaker 1: ten years of seventeen seventy. Oh that's cool, just when

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Speaker 1: things were getting going here, m just when things are

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Speaker 1: starting to heat up around here. Uh, crank uh found

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Speaker 1: this thing that's in here and she put in about

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Speaker 1: she she mentions that it's not Gonnaly mean anything. I

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Speaker 1: don't know much about professional sports, but I like this guy.

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Speaker 1: A big thing in the news now, the Baltimore Ravens. Like,

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Speaker 1: honest to god, if you sat me down and told

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Speaker 1: me to list teams, I don't think I would have

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Speaker 1: come up with that one. I've been like cowboys hackers,

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Speaker 1: like the ones that were cool and when I was

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Speaker 1: a youngster. But after the other week's podcast about Ravens,

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Speaker 1: you know, can Yeah, when people say the name an

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Speaker 1: NFL guy, I'm like Fridge Perry, like, I just don't

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Speaker 1: no idea. Oh man, uh so this dude, I like

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Speaker 1: this guy. Creani trying to get him on the show.

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Speaker 1: Can you work on that real hard? If you know,

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Speaker 1: I know we have NFL listeners. Ben would trying to

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Speaker 1: get hold of Ben Cleveland Baltimore Ravens guard just got drafted.

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Speaker 1: He's making the news all over the place because he

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Speaker 1: eats a lot of squirrels. Then you have to clarify

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Speaker 1: that his squirrel diet is being overblown. He's more of

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Speaker 1: an opportunistic squirrel ead. He just says, he goes into

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Speaker 1: his freezer and he eats what's in his freezer, and

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Speaker 1: sometimes they're squirreling his freezer. But everybody's acting like the

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Speaker 1: advice for celebrities, I think that like, if you want

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Speaker 1: to make the news and you can't think of whatever

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Speaker 1: and you just haven't been in the news cycle, will

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Speaker 1: probably talking about eating squirrels because it doesn't piss anybody off.

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Speaker 1: Like if you said, like I eat panda bears, you're

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Speaker 1: gonna get the wrong attention. Right, if you eat squirrels, like,

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Speaker 1: no one's gonna get mad. Everybody's gonna think it's kind

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Speaker 1: of quirky. You'll get some good ink. That's my tip,

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Speaker 1: My tip to celebrities. Did you see his quote about

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Speaker 1: the squirrel taste. I know that he was saying that

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Speaker 1: he finds them in certain areas to have a nut

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Speaker 1: of your flavors, and another South Georgia, he said they're

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Speaker 1: quite a bit nut of here, and then when you

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Speaker 1: get up north, they just taste like squirrel. Now, dude,

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Speaker 1: I want to have him on the show so bad.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to talk about football. And then I mean,

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Speaker 1: I appreciate that he's good at what he does right, right.

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Speaker 1: I appreciate he's good at what he does. And then

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Speaker 1: he's clarifying quote like I think made it better because

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Speaker 1: he's like, I don't eat squirrels all the time. It's

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Speaker 1: just when there ain't no dear meat left him. What

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Speaker 1: happened somehow or another one brought it up is he

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Speaker 1: was telling a story. I don't know if he grew

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Speaker 1: up in a hard scrabble family, but he's telling a

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Speaker 1: story about when he's a kid, he didn't have anything.

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Speaker 1: There was nothing in his home that he wanted to eat,

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Speaker 1: but they had biscuits and he shot two squirrels out

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Speaker 1: of It's talk about making his own food when he

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Speaker 1: was a kid, and he shot two squirrels out the

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Speaker 1: window with the twenty two and made squirrel and biscuits

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Speaker 1: for himself. He was on a sick day that he's

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Speaker 1: home from school. I love this guy. I don't know,

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Speaker 1: maybe maybe the worst guy in the world. We'll find out.

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Speaker 1: I think he's a good guy. It sounds like it. Yeah, um,

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Speaker 1: we're having squirrel for dinner night. I thought out two

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Speaker 1: packs of squirrel and one pack of rabbits. Um, My

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Speaker 1: kids just like it, like they like you. To brown

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Speaker 1: it in a pan and then put it in an

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Speaker 1: I had to eat out last night for a work thing,

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Speaker 1: but they had uh raccoon last night. I love it. Man.

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Speaker 1: They don't know what they just don't. They don't know

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Speaker 1: enough to care. Um, we're talking about sis. I was

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Speaker 1: explaining that, but I couldn't remember. My brother used to

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Speaker 1: have my brother's old girl friend. We called her to

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Speaker 1: the Tower of power. Uh she do you care to elaborate?

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Speaker 1: I would like some clarification. He's like not a small person.

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Speaker 1: She towered over him. Are you kidding me? Like he

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Speaker 1: had like an eight foot tall girlfriend. Um, the Tower

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Speaker 1: of Power just would beat your ass if you got

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Speaker 1: in a fight with her. I don't wanna tell her name,

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Speaker 1: as you can't remember name. They weren't together that long.

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Speaker 1: I liked her. Remember, I remember one time we went

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Speaker 1: I remember this. We took her duck hunting, and remember

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Speaker 1: we were eating duck duck hunting and I finished my

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Speaker 1: duck leg and through it and said, like ashes, the

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Speaker 1: ashes dust to dust or something like that, and through

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Speaker 1: the bone. I remember hung up in a barbeder fence.

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Speaker 1: Interesting memories just stuck in my head. Um, where those

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Speaker 1: dials that guys turned out, turn those things up, turn

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Speaker 1: those things up. I was saying how she had a um.

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Speaker 1: I remember while they were boyfriend girlfriends, she had this

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Speaker 1: sister removed they had teeth in it. Okay, you guys

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Speaker 1: talked about this the other day. I was eating breakfast.

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Speaker 1: It's the first time in a long time. I just

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Speaker 1: stopped chewing and I was done. Yeah, it's on appetizing.

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Speaker 1: I don't have a like, not a squeamish person. No

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Speaker 1: one wants this tooth thie sis but in them. But

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Speaker 1: we have one of our, one of ours that we

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Speaker 1: had a doctor right and the doctors like I know,

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Speaker 1: you guys got all kinds of doctors that are always

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Speaker 1: righting in, but you don't have many obstetrician guy in

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Speaker 1: the Collegist he writes, and he's act. I think he's

414
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Speaker 1: the first obstetrician guy in ecologist to write it. And

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Speaker 1: he wanted to clarify a few things about the Tower

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Speaker 1: of Powers Cist. It's a dermoid cyst. It's an ovarian

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00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:17,160
Speaker 1: germ cell tumor, very common. Most women who have one

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Speaker 1: probably will never know it. And you are probably close

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Speaker 1: to someone with and ovarian cyst. Whether they know it

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Speaker 1: or not. And I'm only close to you too, Rachel

421
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:34,520
Speaker 1: and Krim. So one of you has one of these

422
00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:37,119
Speaker 1: little buggers in you right now? Is that what we

423
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:43,080
Speaker 1: call them? All of them have hair and a copious

424
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:46,960
Speaker 1: sebacious fluid that looks exactly like Papa John's garlic butter.

425
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:51,720
Speaker 1: That's too much detail right there. That's how he that's

426
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:53,560
Speaker 1: how he describes it. A great way to set up

427
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:56,560
Speaker 1: my my little tasty treats we brought in here to eat. Yeah,

428
00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:59,040
Speaker 1: we should have switched, we should we should have switched

429
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:02,960
Speaker 1: around there. That's a knock against Cran's producing a bill

430
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:09,880
Speaker 1: to have to have not put Sam up top before.

431
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:14,000
Speaker 1: This looks like I don't taste no, not taste like

432
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:18,000
Speaker 1: looks like Papa John's garlic butter. Occasionally they have teeth,

433
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:24,879
Speaker 1: sometimes a small jawbone, sometimes styroid tissue, even cartilage or

434
00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:30,120
Speaker 1: tissue related to the eye. Hmm, that's what I haven't

435
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:34,199
Speaker 1: heard carrying a little person around. You guys might want

436
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 1: to go down and get some kind of exam to

437
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:38,000
Speaker 1: find off you might have one of these buggers. Have

438
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:40,760
Speaker 1: you heard, like looked at video? Is that are they called?

439
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:44,199
Speaker 1: Is it sebacious? Cists. Oh you want to feel one

440
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:49,760
Speaker 1: of those right now? Well, or I haven't removed every

441
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:55,240
Speaker 1: few years. I had him one time come in like horns.

442
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:57,440
Speaker 1: They grew in exactly perfect for horse. What am I thinking?

443
00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:02,200
Speaker 1: I'm thinking of like these like um like they're like pyloric,

444
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 1: I don't know anyway, but it's like the infection goes no, no, no,

445
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:09,639
Speaker 1: it's actually young truckers usually get them. I watched this

446
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 1: whole special. It's like a doctor pimple Popper special or

447
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:13,719
Speaker 1: something like that, right, and it's like they get like

448
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:15,960
Speaker 1: an ingrown hair like usually on their butt because they're

449
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:18,399
Speaker 1: strong on their butt all the time, and then it

450
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 1: gets infected. But the infection goes in and it can

451
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:24,399
Speaker 1: actually like these like infected tentacles like go down the legs.

452
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:26,320
Speaker 1: So when they finally get them, it's like this little

453
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:28,720
Speaker 1: like ZiT. But then they start popping it and it's

454
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:31,400
Speaker 1: just fountains and they're like squeezing the puss up from

455
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:36,119
Speaker 1: the leg and like it's just fountains of this substanti.

456
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:38,240
Speaker 1: What are you're saying fountains? I keep thinking about how

457
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:41,959
Speaker 1: that community is so drawn to fountain pop too. Founting

458
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:45,080
Speaker 1: soda found thirty fountain sodas or not. That might still

459
00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:51,160
Speaker 1: that might be a contributing factor. Uh. Another your clarification

460
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:53,240
Speaker 1: came in. I was saying it a long time ago.

461
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:55,119
Speaker 1: I wanted to do and never did it. When I

462
00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:58,719
Speaker 1: was magazine writer. I wanted to do a piece for Outside.

463
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 1: When I used to write, there a lot about camping

464
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 1: and highway medians, Like you know in some areas where

465
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:08,320
Speaker 1: there's you have too high the highways right like two

466
00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:11,560
Speaker 1: lane highways, interstate highways, and they have the obviously the

467
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 1: median strip, but sometimes the medium strips because of whatever

468
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:16,639
Speaker 1: is going on with the road construction. There's hundreds of

469
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 1: yards of no man's land. Can you imagine deer and

470
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:27,520
Speaker 1: whatnot crossing wind up in that meeting and probably find yeah,

471
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:30,400
Speaker 1: or like whatever, there's probably and there's no one would

472
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:32,520
Speaker 1: go in there, and I wanted to explore those with

473
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:34,680
Speaker 1: this guy pointed out. Someone wrote in that there is

474
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 1: a guy that has a YouTube thing called Camping with Steve,

475
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:45,200
Speaker 1: which makes me jealous as hell because I didn't come

476
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:50,800
Speaker 1: camping with Steve and I haven't watched yet, but on

477
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 1: Camping with Steve, he does the whole thing about camping

478
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:58,399
Speaker 1: and highway medians. He does. He's an expert in stealth

479
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:00,520
Speaker 1: camp I love that. I love that for is I've

480
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:02,720
Speaker 1: employed that a lot in my life camping with Steve.

481
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:07,400
Speaker 1: No stealth camping just like, well, I gotta pull over

482
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:09,920
Speaker 1: and sleep somewhere, and I do not want to pay

483
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:12,359
Speaker 1: for a hosted campground, So I was just gonna slide

484
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:16,760
Speaker 1: into the most interesting stealth spot you've The first time

485
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:20,920
Speaker 1: I visited Missoula, Montana, I tried to go hide out

486
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 1: in this area under construction under a bridge, and it

487
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:27,720
Speaker 1: wasn't very stealthy because the cop came in found me.

488
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 1: I ended up living there for eight years and it's

489
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:35,760
Speaker 1: a whole beautiful part of that didn't go very well.

490
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:37,760
Speaker 1: I don't know. That's just what came to mind. When

491
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:41,040
Speaker 1: you're younger, um, and you guys are quite bit younger

492
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 1: than I am, but you have a very different attitude

493
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 1: about like getting kicked out of places. I mean, you

494
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:49,680
Speaker 1: just want to sleep, and the idea that in the

495
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:51,360
Speaker 1: middle of the the night of cops gonna bang on the

496
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 1: window and shine a light until you can't sleep there,

497
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 1: it just isn't It's like, Okay, that's cool. But now

498
00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:59,240
Speaker 1: I sort of like living fear of conflict like that. Yeah, absolutely,

499
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:02,240
Speaker 1: I would not. I would not repeat that. Yeah, I

500
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:05,640
Speaker 1: just don't like now that kind of thing just makes

501
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:10,680
Speaker 1: me like everything to be all like positive, sure that

502
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 1: I'm okay to like sleep somewhere or camp somewhere. Stealth

503
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:17,720
Speaker 1: camping is not. I like it. I like the camping

504
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:19,800
Speaker 1: with Steve exists, and that he's a stealth camper. But

505
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:23,280
Speaker 1: I just got I'm too cautious now about that kind

506
00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 1: of stuff. Well, we got money and smartphones and stuff

507
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 1: now that maybe back then it was just like, well

508
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:30,960
Speaker 1: I think I can probably get away with it, and

509
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:33,680
Speaker 1: I just need to sleep. So yeah, exactly, have no

510
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 1: quick way to research where you were and to find

511
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:39,040
Speaker 1: a good place to go sleep and all that business. Exactly.

512
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 1: The cops was super nice about it. He's like, yeah,

513
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:44,000
Speaker 1: I know you can't sleep here, but here's some ideas

514
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 1: of where you can sleep. A couple of tips. It

515
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 1: was real, real pleasant. I'm sure he's lunched those out

516
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 1: to a lot of homeless people as well. Probably I

517
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:52,360
Speaker 1: think that's what he thought. It was like he was

518
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 1: he thought I was cooking meth under that truck or something. Oh,

519
00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 1: speaking of police, officers. I was gonna mention this. I

520
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:01,360
Speaker 1: got a text message this morning from our friend guy's Uck,

521
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 1: who has been on the show a few times. If

522
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 1: you go back a ways in our library, we had

523
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 1: an episode called something like the Brown's Back and the

524
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:11,479
Speaker 1: Baseball Bat, and it was it was about guy's Uk

525
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:13,400
Speaker 1: who was on the show. And he's an expert turkey

526
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:15,480
Speaker 1: caller and does it without He can call turkeys with

527
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:17,080
Speaker 1: no calls in his mouth. But when he's a kid,

528
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:20,320
Speaker 1: he had a Brown's back turkey and he would call

529
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:23,400
Speaker 1: it in and then you'd whoop it with a whiffleball

530
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:26,480
Speaker 1: bat a little bit hit it to spook it, not bad,

531
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 1: just to let it know so that it would become

532
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:37,160
Speaker 1: less inclined to be duped. Not bad, not whoop it bad.

533
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 1: I should I use a poor verb choice. He would uh,

534
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:46,120
Speaker 1: look it, love, tap it with a whiffleball bat and

535
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:51,760
Speaker 1: then call it in again, keep tricking it. Did it work.

536
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 1: He's a really good turkey caller. He this morning took

537
00:30:56,120 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 1: out a guy he uh where the land like? He's

538
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:03,680
Speaker 1: a land manager at a at a property that my

539
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 1: friend zone and they use. My friend uses the property

540
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:12,120
Speaker 1: to have veterans and people, Um, allow veterans another, A

541
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 1: lot of wounded veterans go hunt on his place and

542
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:17,720
Speaker 1: that's kind of his main focus of the properties he owns.

543
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 1: And they had a guy out there that got a

544
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 1: turkey this morning. There was shot on duty in Springfield,

545
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:29,040
Speaker 1: Missouri five years ago. Um, first time he has fired

546
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 1: a gun since he was shot. It was first time hunting,

547
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:35,360
Speaker 1: got himself turkey this morning. So that was Yeah, guy's

548
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:42,160
Speaker 1: looks good, dude. Um. Someone wrote into a question struggle

549
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 1: with why people name game animals. We've talked about the

550
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 1: hundred times. What's your take on it? Rachel, Like, Old,

551
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 1: it's just I mean, it's about where you come from too.

552
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:55,040
Speaker 1: And like I think, um, a lot of folks in

553
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 1: the West because we don't necessarily like isolate ourselves to

554
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 1: like a pocket with two routine deer, Like that's a

555
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:04,440
Speaker 1: foreign concept to us. It's like most of the deer

556
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:07,080
Speaker 1: I've ever shot, I've never even seen before to whereas

557
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:08,880
Speaker 1: in the East, like you are, you're in this pattern,

558
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 1: You're in the same stand you have you know, deer

559
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:15,160
Speaker 1: that are you know, super you know patterned, and so

560
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:17,360
Speaker 1: it it's a way to I mean, that's just certain

561
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:19,480
Speaker 1: nature is to figure out how to mark some thing

562
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:20,880
Speaker 1: so you can keep track of it in your head.

563
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:22,800
Speaker 1: So for a while I thought it was super ridiculous,

564
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 1: but now I'm like, what do I do? I care?

565
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 1: I had to around it because people got clever, Like

566
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:31,200
Speaker 1: I only caught it once. People got clever with it

567
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:35,040
Speaker 1: because if everybody would be like, you know that one buck, right,

568
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:38,320
Speaker 1: the buck by Bob's house. That doesn't make anyone upset.

569
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 1: I Saw's house. Yeah, but that's that's not a name either.

570
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:44,400
Speaker 1: That's not that's not a Christian name, I know, but

571
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:48,600
Speaker 1: it's it's an individual that you're communicating about. So the

572
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:51,640
Speaker 1: fact that someone would go, let's say it's by Bob's house,

573
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:54,440
Speaker 1: so he's Bob the Buck, why does that all of

574
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 1: a sudden become like, oh, I don't know about that.

575
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:00,240
Speaker 1: It's fine to say the buck by Bob's house, But

576
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:02,960
Speaker 1: Bob the Buck upsets people? You upset? No upset me.

577
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 1: I was just kind of like, it's weird. You got

578
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:09,640
Speaker 1: the like the the descriptive names to like the Big

579
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:12,880
Speaker 1: nine eighty. Yeah, my dad had. My dad is a

580
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:15,440
Speaker 1: huge white tail hunter for years, and he had this

581
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:18,120
Speaker 1: five year period where he was just like obsessively rabbit

582
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:20,800
Speaker 1: after this buck that he called the hook toe and

583
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:24,200
Speaker 1: because it's track like like the front, you know, like

584
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 1: they would hook over, and so it always was like

585
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:27,640
Speaker 1: this hook and he would like it was a really

586
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:29,800
Speaker 1: big buck and he you know, catches track every once

587
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:31,239
Speaker 1: in a while, and he was just obsessed with it.

588
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:34,920
Speaker 1: Did he kill it? He didn't know? He didn't. Now

589
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:37,120
Speaker 1: Mark Kenny explain Because Mark Kenny, he's got a lot

590
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:39,920
Speaker 1: of little places he hunts, you know, he doesn't he

591
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 1: doesn't have like some he's big white tail hunter, you know,

592
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 1: wired hunt Mark Kenyon, and he's got all these little spots,

593
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 1: you know, like twenty acres whatever. And he's always kind

594
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:51,960
Speaker 1: of watching what bucks are coming and going. And he

595
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:54,800
Speaker 1: might in any given time be sort of aware of

596
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:57,840
Speaker 1: eight or ten deer and he watches them. Over the

597
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 1: course of many years. It's like what the hell is

598
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:04,000
Speaker 1: he supposed to do? And and I've also found that

599
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:06,920
Speaker 1: like in especially in Mark's situation, it's it's very useful

600
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:10,479
Speaker 1: for creating a narrative to allowing people to follow along

601
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:12,680
Speaker 1: with it to give an idea of deer he's recently killing.

602
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:18,759
Speaker 1: He was Tran Frank Drupi one he tried killing was

603
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 1: Holy Field. So that those are like the names. What

604
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:22,920
Speaker 1: was the name of that crazy bock you shot in

605
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:30,840
Speaker 1: Kansas last year? UM, trying to think. I'm disappointed. I

606
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:33,479
Speaker 1: don't remember what they had named him at Buck's gotta

607
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 1: have a name. He had a name. I don't remember,

608
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:37,120
Speaker 1: but that that was an example to where they had.

609
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 1: You know, pretty much any deer that we would lay

610
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:42,480
Speaker 1: eyes on had a name. We have a very interesting

611
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 1: white tailed lives around our yard and he's still just

612
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:49,359
Speaker 1: like the one big buck. Oh that one we were

613
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:53,240
Speaker 1: looking at last maybe last fall's look. But he's all velvet.

614
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:55,480
Speaker 1: But I have a hard time. I'm sure there's people

615
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 1: that are good at it. I have a hard time, like,

616
00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 1: tell him what's going to happen. But he's got like

617
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 1: celery stocks of velvet coming out top of the head.

618
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:08,280
Speaker 1: You know, I mean not the individuals man, I'm talking about.

619
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:11,879
Speaker 1: When you buy all the celery still hooked together, that's

620
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:16,920
Speaker 1: an exaggeration, and then cut one of those in half

621
00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:19,200
Speaker 1: and then called those in half. That's what looks like

622
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:24,239
Speaker 1: big velvet knobs coming out column celery the celery buck.

623
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:26,680
Speaker 1: But here's a question, where does that all dovetail with

624
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 1: like anthropomorphizing animals, and then I've heard many people say

625
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 1: like I'm going to go and get my dear this year,

626
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:39,479
Speaker 1: or that's my bear, you know, like over the course

627
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:41,239
Speaker 1: of a couple of years, you think you see the

628
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:45,960
Speaker 1: same animal. You know, you're unsuccessful at, you know, killing

629
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:49,520
Speaker 1: the thing, and and it's like that's mine, and it's

630
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:53,320
Speaker 1: like that animal knows you. Of course, not like you're not.

631
00:35:54,520 --> 00:36:00,520
Speaker 1: It is legally, it is legally yours. It's legally your problem. Sure,

632
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:03,799
Speaker 1: well yeah, okay, so they're just call on your show. Well,

633
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 1: I think more than so. I think more than anthropomorphizing

634
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:11,040
Speaker 1: in this situation, like the naming of a deer, it's

635
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:12,879
Speaker 1: more of I think maybe the where our brains work

636
00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:15,600
Speaker 1: is we just like something that's routined in our life,

637
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:17,680
Speaker 1: we like to label it, like you want, you want

638
00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:19,719
Speaker 1: to classify, you want to label it. You want to

639
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:22,399
Speaker 1: because it's something that's familiar. And I think that's maybe

640
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:25,000
Speaker 1: the wear lives are. I mean, just our brains kind

641
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:27,880
Speaker 1: of worked, Whereas I don't know if you're necessarily like

642
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:31,239
Speaker 1: like giving that animal some human characters. Yeah, you're not

643
00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:34,200
Speaker 1: putting a bow tie on it, and no imagining it's

644
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 1: relationship with its skunk best friend and they go off

645
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:43,400
Speaker 1: and have adventure. So yeah, I just I think it's

646
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:45,480
Speaker 1: maybe just wear where brains work or want to work.

647
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:52,239
Speaker 1: I don't know. The guy from Oklahoma wrote in UM

648
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:57,239
Speaker 1: his hunting body is a farmer and you're talking about

649
00:36:57,239 --> 00:37:01,239
Speaker 1: how they, you know, winter cattle on their place, and

650
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:09,239
Speaker 1: he says that they feed corn and then a lot

651
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:13,240
Speaker 1: of geese come out into the pastures where these cattle

652
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:17,480
Speaker 1: are at and pick the undigested bits of corn out

653
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:21,359
Speaker 1: of the nerve. And he's wondering what everybody thinks about

654
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:25,560
Speaker 1: that eating those But man, if you eat a duck anywhere,

655
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:28,239
Speaker 1: you're eating yeah. Yeah, I mean, if you eat a

656
00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:32,640
Speaker 1: turkey anywhere in the American West, if you eat a colie,

657
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 1: you're eating cowshit. Like I mean, come on, like they're

658
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 1: eating You've seen him out. Yeah, they looked themselves, and

659
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 1: they're coated in nerves and they it's all over in

660
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:47,399
Speaker 1: the grass. They're eating I mean everything, dear, I'm sure

661
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:50,200
Speaker 1: are picking up ship when they're eating. I mean, let's

662
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:51,880
Speaker 1: be clear, if you're eating the mints that are on

663
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:59,200
Speaker 1: the lake hostess table as you're leading restaurant some matter. Yeah,

664
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:04,200
Speaker 1: it doesn't bother me. Now. We one time had um,

665
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:06,239
Speaker 1: we one time had a duck hunting permission in a

666
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:08,880
Speaker 1: pretty famous waterfowl area and there's we got a duck

667
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:17,480
Speaker 1: hunting permission where there was a municipal sewage facility, and uh,

668
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 1: it was so bad. I mean, we got a lot

669
00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:21,160
Speaker 1: of ducks there. It was so bad that there were

670
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:26,040
Speaker 1: prophylactics now and then. So we were hunting in the

671
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:30,040
Speaker 1: treated stuff or the untreated stuff. You know. I was

672
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:34,719
Speaker 1: never clear, sounds kind of untreated down the line. We

673
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 1: were down the line. We were down the line a bit,

674
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:38,759
Speaker 1: and it had like a lot of aquatic vegetation. I

675
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:40,560
Speaker 1: was like some kind of like later settling pond. I

676
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 1: have to go back, and we visit. We didn't pay

677
00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:44,400
Speaker 1: too much attention at the time. I later realized it

678
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:48,080
Speaker 1: seemed like a good way to get up Titus the

679
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 1: topic of plastic in the environment. Man. We're like, man,

680
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:52,040
Speaker 1: we got this place all to ourselves. And when the

681
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:57,360
Speaker 1: guy gave permission, he uh didn't even hammer hall about it.

682
00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:00,560
Speaker 1: I was, I can't leave. No one has the spot. Yeah,

683
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:04,640
Speaker 1: we hunted for several years. Um, so I don't know

684
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:07,799
Speaker 1: that doesn't bother me, all right, Sam. Now, after we

685
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:14,040
Speaker 1: talked about those little toothy siss and eating nerve, Sam

686
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:15,919
Speaker 1: longer in here texted me one day, I was asking

687
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:18,600
Speaker 1: about Okay, just to clarify, I feel like you said,

688
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:22,000
Speaker 1: have you ever tried to dry? How did you put

689
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:23,319
Speaker 1: it to me? I said, I think, I said, have

690
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:25,200
Speaker 1: you ever tried to do like a purshuto ham with

691
00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:29,000
Speaker 1: a deer? Yeah? And I said that it won't work? Yeah, Well,

692
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:31,239
Speaker 1: and you're basing you're basing that off, I think off

693
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 1: of trying it with hogs in Texas and and saying

694
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:37,520
Speaker 1: that there wasn't enough enough fat on them to to

695
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:40,440
Speaker 1: make like maintain the moisture in there. Because when I

696
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:42,680
Speaker 1: did it successfully with a friend of mine who's like

697
00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 1: a sharkootrie expert at a restaurant, he um was dismissive

698
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:50,560
Speaker 1: of all this stuff. And then we made it with

699
00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:57,400
Speaker 1: pig legs with the skin on scraped skin on pig legs,

700
00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:00,920
Speaker 1: which worked very well, really, you know, but there's a

701
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:06,839
Speaker 1: lot of protection, right fat, right right, and and there

702
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:09,799
Speaker 1: are a lot of methods for kind of emulating that

703
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:13,640
Speaker 1: with with deer. And I mean, let me apologize upfront

704
00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:16,080
Speaker 1: that I do not did not get into the science

705
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:18,360
Speaker 1: of this as far as I could. I mean, i've

706
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:20,440
Speaker 1: I've I've read a lot of this is my This

707
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:22,840
Speaker 1: is my is my first attempt at it. But basically,

708
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:25,720
Speaker 1: both my freezers were full because I killed a moose

709
00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:28,600
Speaker 1: last year as well as a baron, an elk and

710
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:30,279
Speaker 1: a deer and a turkey and a bunch of other

711
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:33,640
Speaker 1: ship and uh, I had one deer ham left, and

712
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:36,720
Speaker 1: both my freezers were like packed to the to the brim.

713
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:38,319
Speaker 1: And I always kind of wanted to do like a

714
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:41,600
Speaker 1: big hole muscle cure. Read a lot of stuff online,

715
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:45,160
Speaker 1: mostly just kind of like experimental blogs and eight something

716
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:50,720
Speaker 1: turning my dialoge. You're talking about the process. So the process,

717
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:54,440
Speaker 1: what I did was I just salted the Jesus out

718
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:56,440
Speaker 1: of it for three weeks, but just rubbed it all

719
00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:58,680
Speaker 1: over the exterior of it. Yeah, and then and so

720
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:00,680
Speaker 1: I just like had it out and there's all kinds

721
00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:03,640
Speaker 1: of water coming off, all kinds of water lost, pounds

722
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:07,920
Speaker 1: of water, room town um colder than room timp. It

723
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:09,759
Speaker 1: was like out in the out in the garage at

724
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:12,560
Speaker 1: my last place in my in cool weather. Yeah, I

725
00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:15,279
Speaker 1: killed my my buck like mid November. So you did

726
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:17,680
Speaker 1: it back then, Yeah, you did it right, Like he

727
00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:20,920
Speaker 1: never frows the thing or anything, never froze it. Probably

728
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:23,440
Speaker 1: probably deer pulled the skin off and started putting all

729
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:25,800
Speaker 1: kinds of salt on. Yeah. Yeah, shot shot the deer,

730
00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:28,680
Speaker 1: gutted it, dragged it out, which I don't usually do,

731
00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:30,319
Speaker 1: but we had a skiff of snow, and I was

732
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:31,800
Speaker 1: a mile and a half from the truck, and I

733
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:34,719
Speaker 1: was like, you know, it seems easier. Hung it for

734
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:37,799
Speaker 1: a week, butchered it and then just like left that

735
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:41,080
Speaker 1: ham hung it for a little while longer than then

736
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:45,480
Speaker 1: salted it real heavily for for quite a while, took

737
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 1: off pounds and pounds and pounds of of of water

738
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:52,120
Speaker 1: it um on a tray, and so I would like

739
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:54,799
Speaker 1: pour off the water occasionally and flip it, put more

740
00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:58,000
Speaker 1: salt on, rub off the old salt, put more salt on,

741
00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:01,400
Speaker 1: uh than After three or or weeks, took it out

742
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:04,319
Speaker 1: and washed all the salt off. Hunging out in the

743
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:06,880
Speaker 1: sun for a day because after I washed it, I

744
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:09,440
Speaker 1: don't wanted to didn't you wanted to rid it of

745
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:13,640
Speaker 1: that moisture um. Then I put on more salt a

746
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:19,000
Speaker 1: little bit of curing salt, uh, dried garlic, um, dried

747
00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:22,520
Speaker 1: rosemary and pepper, and then kind of let that set

748
00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:24,880
Speaker 1: up and kind of make a little bit of a crust.

749
00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:27,560
Speaker 1: And then I mean melted down a whole bunch of

750
00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:31,160
Speaker 1: large that you gave me and allowed that to kind

751
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:33,919
Speaker 1: of cool, and then just kind of painted it over.

752
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:39,880
Speaker 1: Caked it, just caked it almost probably probably a quarter

753
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:43,400
Speaker 1: inch thick in large, but you know, thicker in some places.

754
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:45,600
Speaker 1: But I mean I put on like five or six

755
00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:51,520
Speaker 1: pounds of of large and then it was the whole Yeah,

756
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:54,320
Speaker 1: I went started. So after I coated in a large,

757
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:56,719
Speaker 1: then I wrapped it in just a just a cheap

758
00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:59,600
Speaker 1: game bag, so cheesecloth, and then kind of bound that

759
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:03,320
Speaker 1: up with para cord and hung it in that basement.

760
00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:07,600
Speaker 1: I was living in um in a dark closet, so

761
00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:12,319
Speaker 1: ambient temperature of the house, so you know, fifties sixties,

762
00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:17,560
Speaker 1: no sunlight, um and just ambient moisture for Montana, so

763
00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:20,520
Speaker 1: you know, generally pretty arid. And then when I moved

764
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:22,080
Speaker 1: to my new place, it was I put it in

765
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:24,719
Speaker 1: the in my I got it like a it's like

766
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:26,719
Speaker 1: a house on top of a big, big gas garage

767
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:28,400
Speaker 1: and hung it in the in the basement out of

768
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:34,520
Speaker 1: the sun. Same thing, you know, forties, fifties, sixties, a

769
00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:37,640
Speaker 1: lot of air movement, not much sunlight. As soon as

770
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:40,160
Speaker 1: it starts to get hot, out you want to cut

771
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:42,960
Speaker 1: that thing down because once you're getting into like seventy

772
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:45,279
Speaker 1: eight degrees, you're you're gonna run into different types of

773
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:48,879
Speaker 1: mold and you're going to run into um, just run

774
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:51,759
Speaker 1: into more trouble. It's gonna dry out, it's gonna this

775
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:54,040
Speaker 1: and that the other thing. And so to three weeks ago,

776
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:57,080
Speaker 1: whatever it was, it was like it was getting real hot,

777
00:43:57,120 --> 00:43:59,360
Speaker 1: and I'm like, I just started getting nervous about it

778
00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:02,800
Speaker 1: and decided to chop it down, cut it up, and

779
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:06,000
Speaker 1: and see how it was um. And honestly, I was

780
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:10,520
Speaker 1: surprised by how moist it was. Silky. Yeah, I ended

781
00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:14,080
Speaker 1: up smoking a lot, smoking a lot of it after

782
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:16,040
Speaker 1: I after I parted it out, because it was so

783
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:18,120
Speaker 1: moist and it was it was still very much raw.

784
00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:22,280
Speaker 1: It did not the cure did not really penetrate, and

785
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:24,879
Speaker 1: and and and next time, and and and I have

786
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:28,239
Speaker 1: reached or why do you think the cure didn't penetrate? Yeah,

787
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:30,799
Speaker 1: it's salty I mean it feels like that salt. Yeah,

788
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:33,399
Speaker 1: but but like but you know, what you're tasting here

789
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:36,680
Speaker 1: is smoked as well, like really low light smoke. But

790
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:39,480
Speaker 1: it just it felt very raw. You know. What I

791
00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:42,080
Speaker 1: wanted to do here is like trail meat, you know,

792
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:45,360
Speaker 1: something you can kind of throw in your backpack. Um.

793
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:47,839
Speaker 1: But yeah, I was like, again, I was shocked by

794
00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:51,560
Speaker 1: how much moisture was maintained. And I feel like it's

795
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:54,600
Speaker 1: got kind of a fattiness to it from having that

796
00:44:54,719 --> 00:45:00,000
Speaker 1: large coating. Um. Yeah, so that's the best thing I've had.

797
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:02,560
Speaker 1: Did you have any mold on it? Yeah? Yeah, the

798
00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:07,680
Speaker 1: outside definitely had some white mold. Um there, Uh, there

799
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:10,640
Speaker 1: were some little black spots that were appearing, and I

800
00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:13,480
Speaker 1: think that might have been like kind of concurrent with

801
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:17,239
Speaker 1: that hot weather. Um the outside you know that that

802
00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:19,520
Speaker 1: that large kind of seeped through the cheese cloth and

803
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:21,920
Speaker 1: it was starting it was starting to look pretty fucking weird,

804
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:24,840
Speaker 1: to be honest with you. Um, I mean it's very

805
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:28,120
Speaker 1: very yellow and kind of congealing at the bottom. But

806
00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:30,960
Speaker 1: but I would always get you know, like as you

807
00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:33,200
Speaker 1: moved out and left that hanging in the garage, someone

808
00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:37,480
Speaker 1: would throw it away. And now eat it for an

809
00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:43,280
Speaker 1: investigation probably, But man, I mean I got ten pounds

810
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:46,120
Speaker 1: of sliced you know, or well like ready to be

811
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:50,120
Speaker 1: sandwich meat, um and so and and like that with

812
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:53,080
Speaker 1: some good cheese on some sour dough and then toasted up.

813
00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:57,640
Speaker 1: It's like it's it's really good. And you could kind

814
00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:01,319
Speaker 1: of when you take it, you and almost rolled into

815
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:04,319
Speaker 1: a ball. Yeah, you know, you could take a piece

816
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:06,240
Speaker 1: and kind of trimmed if you trim the edge away,

817
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:08,640
Speaker 1: that's exactly that's when to make the meat and make

818
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:11,280
Speaker 1: like a little sphere out of it, tenderized the crap

819
00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:15,839
Speaker 1: out of it, and man like exceeded by wildest expectations. Yeah, man,

820
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:27,520
Speaker 1: that's good. I'm gonna try top Sam. Are you checked

821
00:46:27,560 --> 00:46:31,480
Speaker 1: out on the the lobster fight? I am okay, explain

822
00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:33,759
Speaker 1: this lobster fight thing. A lot of stuff in the

823
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:38,440
Speaker 1: news like UN peacekeepers coming to Canada to settle a

824
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:43,239
Speaker 1: lobster fight. A tribe in Canada, Psycanuka teat on the

825
00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:46,400
Speaker 1: Bay of St. Mary, which is on the Bay of Fundy.

826
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:49,680
Speaker 1: And you know that's a giant cutout of Nova Scotia.

827
00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:52,480
Speaker 1: That's the biggest tide swing in the world, right one

828
00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:54,360
Speaker 1: of them. I think Bay of Fun might be the

829
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:56,760
Speaker 1: biggest tide swinging. I heard it was somewhere in England

830
00:46:57,280 --> 00:47:00,160
Speaker 1: because where I grew up as one of the biggest

831
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:03,880
Speaker 1: big tide swing I was familiar with the name a

832
00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:06,920
Speaker 1: lot of the towns because the show Trailer Park Boys

833
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:10,200
Speaker 1: is set in that area. UM, I wouldn't expect everyone

834
00:47:10,239 --> 00:47:13,279
Speaker 1: to know that. One, it's a phenomenal television program. It

835
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:22,399
Speaker 1: is correct three point five ft Holy crap. So last year,

836
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:27,319
Speaker 1: this this first nation tribe in Canada decided that they

837
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:31,680
Speaker 1: were going to have their own lobster season. The Canadian

838
00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:37,800
Speaker 1: Fisheries Ministry has you know, a set season and um

839
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:41,239
Speaker 1: like federal federal, federally set season. So kind of like

840
00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:44,040
Speaker 1: their version of our like you know, Noah or National

841
00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:48,759
Speaker 1: Marine Fishery Service. UM. So this this tribe you know,

842
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:52,840
Speaker 1: is trying to uh, you know, really kind of build

843
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:57,000
Speaker 1: more of a kind of a career path for their people,

844
00:47:57,040 --> 00:48:00,440
Speaker 1: create more jobs in lobster fishing. And they've leave that

845
00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:04,840
Speaker 1: the that the lobster populations can't sustain a more intensive

846
00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:09,799
Speaker 1: fishery than the you know, the Canadian government believes. Um.

847
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:13,000
Speaker 1: Last year they went ahead and did this fishery. They

848
00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:16,319
Speaker 1: just they went for it, um, and and caught a

849
00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:19,320
Speaker 1: whole bunch of lobsters. But there's a lot of people

850
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:23,160
Speaker 1: in that area who were very upset about this. There's

851
00:48:23,239 --> 00:48:26,080
Speaker 1: people pulling their going up and pulling their pots, stealing

852
00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:30,600
Speaker 1: their pots two different presumably other commercial operators who are

853
00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:33,960
Speaker 1: operating under the federal law exactly. So you can hear

854
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:38,560
Speaker 1: they are like, you're you're catching lobsters that I can't catch. Exactly, yeah, exactly,

855
00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:40,520
Speaker 1: so you know I could you know, you can see

856
00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:44,880
Speaker 1: where that they might perceive unfairness. But it got really

857
00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:49,879
Speaker 1: out of hand. The um the like mobs attacked these

858
00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:56,600
Speaker 1: lobster storage facilities in West Pubnico um, and you know,

859
00:48:56,680 --> 00:49:01,400
Speaker 1: stole lobsters and then they eventually burned of those places

860
00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:08,080
Speaker 1: to to the ground. Um. The cops came, people were arrested. UM.

861
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:11,319
Speaker 1: But and like what I read, you know is that

862
00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:16,880
Speaker 1: the cops were just glad nobody died. But really nasty stuff.

863
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:20,560
Speaker 1: The chief of the or leader chairman. Let's see what

864
00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:25,880
Speaker 1: it was, chief, Yeah, um was it was assaulted. UM.

865
00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:31,400
Speaker 1: One of the tribal members vans was set on fire. UM.

866
00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:35,560
Speaker 1: Really nasty ship, really nasty UM. And and they really

867
00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:38,680
Speaker 1: insist that you know, they're right right across the way

868
00:49:38,719 --> 00:49:42,800
Speaker 1: from from Maine, and Maine conducts a year long lobster season,

869
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:45,920
Speaker 1: and and they think that they should be able to

870
00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:48,200
Speaker 1: do that in order to really you know, access those

871
00:49:48,239 --> 00:49:51,279
Speaker 1: markets and and build you know, build up there their

872
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:54,680
Speaker 1: fishery and their kind of way of life. Um. And

873
00:49:54,719 --> 00:49:58,080
Speaker 1: they're planning to do again this year. UM. And it

874
00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:01,680
Speaker 1: got so nasty last year and they're basically fighting against

875
00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:05,440
Speaker 1: the you know, the federal government of Canada. And so

876
00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:10,480
Speaker 1: they have this year requested you and peacekeepers to come

877
00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:13,640
Speaker 1: in and using little blue helmets exactly to come in

878
00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:19,200
Speaker 1: and avoid the the violence. UM. That's very wildly out

879
00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:21,960
Speaker 1: of the question because it's interesting because it ties into

880
00:50:21,960 --> 00:50:22,960
Speaker 1: the thing we were taught over the other day. Of

881
00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:26,359
Speaker 1: the other day, we had a law student who's from

882
00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:29,960
Speaker 1: the Choctaw Nation and he was explaining, like he's explained

883
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:34,680
Speaker 1: the concept of sovereign nations that when our government, um

884
00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:37,320
Speaker 1: wanted to strike, like when our government wanted to negotiate

885
00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:40,880
Speaker 1: with tribes, they had to for our government to negotiate

886
00:50:40,920 --> 00:50:43,360
Speaker 1: with an entity like it can't negotiate with an entity

887
00:50:43,440 --> 00:50:47,920
Speaker 1: that's not a sovereign thing, so tribes became legally sovereign nations.

888
00:50:48,120 --> 00:50:50,160
Speaker 1: So it's interesting that you'd say, like, no, our sovereign

889
00:50:50,239 --> 00:50:53,200
Speaker 1: and I know this is Canada, but like our sovereign nation,

890
00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:58,000
Speaker 1: our tribe is in a dispute with another sovereign nation

891
00:50:58,120 --> 00:51:00,799
Speaker 1: of Canada. And what happens when two sovereign nations are

892
00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:05,200
Speaker 1: in dispute oftentimes the U N. Yeah, but but the

893
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:09,799
Speaker 1: u N always Uh, it's far fetched. I think it's

894
00:51:09,880 --> 00:51:14,320
Speaker 1: the logic is. I think it makes a point, absolutely absolutely,

895
00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:18,439
Speaker 1: and I think it got it got a lot of attentions.

896
00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:19,799
Speaker 1: It got a lot of attention that we would be

897
00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:21,719
Speaker 1: talking about We wouldn't be talking about it right now

898
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:25,319
Speaker 1: if they hadn't requested UN peacekeepers. Yeah, and you know,

899
00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:28,600
Speaker 1: and there's there's there's some kind of mixed up Supreme

900
00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:34,960
Speaker 1: Court decisions within this um that they affirmed the right

901
00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:41,000
Speaker 1: to a moderate livelihood from fishing and hunting um, which

902
00:51:41,120 --> 00:51:44,759
Speaker 1: which opened the door for First Nations in Canada to

903
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:50,360
Speaker 1: be able to hunt and fish outside of the established

904
00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:56,359
Speaker 1: regulations and um, you know, pursue more more subsistence kind

905
00:51:56,360 --> 00:51:58,560
Speaker 1: of hunting and fishing. But then there was a follow

906
00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:04,520
Speaker 1: up to that um that indigenous treaty rights are subject

907
00:52:04,520 --> 00:52:08,200
Speaker 1: to regulation as long as the regulation is shown to

908
00:52:08,239 --> 00:52:11,880
Speaker 1: be justified on the grounds of conservation or other public importance.

909
00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:17,680
Speaker 1: But would be helpful for people listening to kind of

910
00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:19,880
Speaker 1: understand this where I want to give a state side,

911
00:52:20,120 --> 00:52:25,640
Speaker 1: like a US version of something similar. Where UM in

912
00:52:25,719 --> 00:52:29,000
Speaker 1: your home state, Sam in Washington with razor clams. I

913
00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:31,759
Speaker 1: was reading about the regulatory structures from razor clams. So

914
00:52:31,880 --> 00:52:37,880
Speaker 1: there's a basis as a shellfish management panel, right, and

915
00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:43,799
Speaker 1: it includes representatives from the state of Washington, and it

916
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:50,160
Speaker 1: includes tribal representatives from coastal tribes. They together like with

917
00:52:50,160 --> 00:52:56,360
Speaker 1: with each of these representatives are Each of these representatives

918
00:52:56,400 --> 00:53:01,080
Speaker 1: are represented by biologists who do shellfish surveys, and they

919
00:53:01,120 --> 00:53:04,080
Speaker 1: start out saying, like, what is the harvestable number of say,

920
00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:09,000
Speaker 1: razor clams on said beaches. It's already agreed that the

921
00:53:09,040 --> 00:53:14,720
Speaker 1: percentages of whatever is there, Yeah, are allocated tribal state

922
00:53:15,239 --> 00:53:18,480
Speaker 1: state being to anyone that goes and buys a state license,

923
00:53:18,719 --> 00:53:21,440
Speaker 1: tribal being just the tribal members. So they already know

924
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:23,799
Speaker 1: how they're going to cut it. They just don't know

925
00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:25,839
Speaker 1: how big the pie is, but they know how they'll

926
00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:28,439
Speaker 1: slice the pie. And every year they need to or whatever,

927
00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:30,080
Speaker 1: I don't know, if it's every year, every two years, whatever,

928
00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:31,880
Speaker 1: they need to come to an agreement like okay, how

929
00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:34,560
Speaker 1: big is the buy and then we'll cut it in

930
00:53:34,560 --> 00:53:39,400
Speaker 1: a half. But that's sort of like the moving piece there. Absolutely,

931
00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:41,760
Speaker 1: and that comes out of the nineteen seventy four Bolt Decision,

932
00:53:42,280 --> 00:53:46,280
Speaker 1: which which was a byproduct of the salmon wars and

933
00:53:46,280 --> 00:53:49,439
Speaker 1: and where they were like there was actual gunfights out

934
00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:53,880
Speaker 1: in like the Straits Wanta Fuka among commercial salmon fishermen, um.

935
00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:56,800
Speaker 1: And what what that did was reaffirmed the treaty rights

936
00:53:57,000 --> 00:54:00,360
Speaker 1: of the tribes in Washington and and and cut it

937
00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:04,840
Speaker 1: in half. It's at fifty for triabal harvest fifty percent

938
00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:08,319
Speaker 1: for non indigenous. So that plays out across sam and

939
00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:13,120
Speaker 1: steel head, everything any fish you can or shellfish you can,

940
00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:16,400
Speaker 1: and crab and everything you can think of in Washington's

941
00:54:16,760 --> 00:54:18,920
Speaker 1: frustrates the hell out of people because I think a

942
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:21,320
Speaker 1: lot of people look and um, I mean, I'm frustrates

943
00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:22,839
Speaker 1: the hell out of people on both sides, I'm sure,

944
00:54:22,880 --> 00:54:24,600
Speaker 1: but a lot of people look and they think themselves,

945
00:54:25,360 --> 00:54:28,080
Speaker 1: I'm an American, I belong to the state. We're all Americans.

946
00:54:28,200 --> 00:54:30,560
Speaker 1: I thought the whole thing with America's all Americans are equal.

947
00:54:30,960 --> 00:54:34,319
Speaker 1: Why is this not divided equally? Why do some Americans

948
00:54:34,360 --> 00:54:36,879
Speaker 1: get you know? And then and then on the other hand,

949
00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:39,680
Speaker 1: people are like, well, would be all mine? We're not

950
00:54:39,840 --> 00:54:43,160
Speaker 1: taken from me by your ancestors. And so I'm pissed. Two.

951
00:54:43,520 --> 00:54:46,439
Speaker 1: And it's getting it's getting especially sticky with steel head

952
00:54:46,520 --> 00:54:51,520
Speaker 1: right now, which are declining precipitously in in Washington's implementing

953
00:54:51,520 --> 00:54:54,160
Speaker 1: all sorts of different regulations. But you know, when I

954
00:54:54,160 --> 00:54:57,200
Speaker 1: wrote about this earlier this year, is that they banned

955
00:54:57,719 --> 00:55:01,360
Speaker 1: fishing from a boat on most of the coastal rivers

956
00:55:01,360 --> 00:55:03,279
Speaker 1: for steel head. Just what all they're trying to do

957
00:55:03,320 --> 00:55:07,600
Speaker 1: is exactly just trying to reduce the catch rate. But

958
00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:09,960
Speaker 1: you know, kind of a bit of the elephant in

959
00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:12,080
Speaker 1: the room and that discussion is the fact that all

960
00:55:12,160 --> 00:55:14,400
Speaker 1: of those rivers are still being gill net for wild

961
00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:19,040
Speaker 1: steelhead by the tribes. UM, and catching release does count

962
00:55:19,160 --> 00:55:25,959
Speaker 1: as take under some more recent court decisions. UM. But

963
00:55:26,080 --> 00:55:30,200
Speaker 1: you know that it's it's harder, harder mathematics now that

964
00:55:30,360 --> 00:55:32,200
Speaker 1: you know a lot of these steel head runs are

965
00:55:32,239 --> 00:55:35,239
Speaker 1: like under a thousand and the tribes still assert it

966
00:55:35,320 --> 00:55:41,240
Speaker 1: in their fifty take on a very small escapment um.

967
00:55:41,280 --> 00:55:43,839
Speaker 1: But you know, it's it's the math is a little

968
00:55:43,920 --> 00:55:46,440
Speaker 1: the math is pretty fuzzy because it's you know, it's

969
00:55:46,480 --> 00:55:48,600
Speaker 1: gill nets and stuff, and it's like you get these

970
00:55:48,680 --> 00:55:52,960
Speaker 1: days a week estimating how many you're going to get. Um.

971
00:55:53,000 --> 00:55:55,480
Speaker 1: You know, to me, it's important that they still have

972
00:55:55,560 --> 00:55:58,719
Speaker 1: that the right to do that and maintain those traditions.

973
00:55:58,760 --> 00:56:00,839
Speaker 1: But on the other side of the lane, like and

974
00:56:00,840 --> 00:56:03,399
Speaker 1: some of the tribes are totally at the table here, like, hey,

975
00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:05,920
Speaker 1: there's a problem, we're trying to fix it. We're and

976
00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:09,120
Speaker 1: are working with w DFW and the other stakeholders to

977
00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:11,719
Speaker 1: try to solve those problems. But then there's there's some

978
00:56:11,760 --> 00:56:14,920
Speaker 1: other tribes who are like, God, pound sand, look at

979
00:56:14,920 --> 00:56:16,919
Speaker 1: the bolt decision, We have the right to do this. Yeah.

980
00:56:16,920 --> 00:56:18,600
Speaker 1: I think that's one of the areas where there's a

981
00:56:18,600 --> 00:56:24,880
Speaker 1: lot of frustration would be that exercising tribal rights takes

982
00:56:24,960 --> 00:56:27,840
Speaker 1: precedent over sort of like the state of the resource,

983
00:56:28,320 --> 00:56:30,440
Speaker 1: and at a point it gets into the finger pointing.

984
00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:32,480
Speaker 1: It's like, well, the resource wouldn't be screwed up if

985
00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:36,319
Speaker 1: it weren't for you guys. But it's like, okay, but

986
00:56:36,360 --> 00:56:38,200
Speaker 1: it's still screwed up. It was white men that put

987
00:56:38,239 --> 00:56:40,440
Speaker 1: cannaries on the mouse of all those rivers, you know,

988
00:56:41,320 --> 00:56:46,440
Speaker 1: years ago. But does that then mean that when you

989
00:56:46,440 --> 00:56:49,000
Speaker 1: have a population of a thousand fish entering a river,

990
00:56:49,760 --> 00:56:52,399
Speaker 1: does does the fact that it's your fault? I mean

991
00:56:52,440 --> 00:56:54,359
Speaker 1: that we should kill half? We should continue to kill

992
00:56:54,400 --> 00:56:56,800
Speaker 1: half of them every year as a as a display

993
00:56:56,840 --> 00:56:59,919
Speaker 1: of our tribal rights. It's tricky, No, it's tricky as hell.

994
00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:03,320
Speaker 1: You want a good segue? Yeah? Please? This connects Washington

995
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:08,279
Speaker 1: with Canada. Phenomenal. So this was another Canadian Supreme Court

996
00:57:08,280 --> 00:57:11,279
Speaker 1: the case that was just decided um in two thousand ten.

997
00:57:11,600 --> 00:57:15,279
Speaker 1: Rick Diswattle of Washington State. He lives on the Confederated

998
00:57:15,360 --> 00:57:21,880
Speaker 1: Colville Reservation north of Spokane, crossed up into BC and

999
00:57:22,200 --> 00:57:25,080
Speaker 1: killed an elk out of season without a license, crossed

1000
00:57:26,040 --> 00:57:28,680
Speaker 1: uh No, in his in his truck there with his

1001
00:57:28,880 --> 00:57:31,840
Speaker 1: with his wife. So wasn't like he wanted across the

1002
00:57:31,880 --> 00:57:33,960
Speaker 1: border without knowing it. No, No, this is very deliberate.

1003
00:57:34,000 --> 00:57:36,080
Speaker 1: He killed this elk and then reported himself and then

1004
00:57:36,120 --> 00:57:38,640
Speaker 1: went and told the game warden, hey, I killed this

1005
00:57:38,680 --> 00:57:44,240
Speaker 1: elk and I'm exert I'm exerting my treating international boundary. Yeah,

1006
00:57:44,360 --> 00:57:47,280
Speaker 1: he's a member of the Sinics tribe or the Arrow

1007
00:57:47,360 --> 00:57:51,240
Speaker 1: Lakes people that were traditionally lived in the Arrow Lakes

1008
00:57:51,280 --> 00:57:53,240
Speaker 1: region of British Columbia. I don't know who that is,

1009
00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:56,480
Speaker 1: but I'm told it's up there. The last Canadian member

1010
00:57:56,520 --> 00:57:59,560
Speaker 1: of that clan died in nineteen fifty three, and it

1011
00:57:59,560 --> 00:58:04,320
Speaker 1: had been declared an extinct clan by the Canadian government.

1012
00:58:04,360 --> 00:58:08,080
Speaker 1: Basically when they're making you know, the reservation systems and

1013
00:58:08,120 --> 00:58:10,960
Speaker 1: everything and and uh, you know more. Around the turn

1014
00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:14,000
Speaker 1: of the century, that band mostly moved to Washington just

1015
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:15,760
Speaker 1: because they were kind of they kind of got squeezed

1016
00:58:15,760 --> 00:58:18,439
Speaker 1: out of that area. Um, and very few were left

1017
00:58:18,480 --> 00:58:21,360
Speaker 1: and then the last of them died. Um. But I

1018
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:25,200
Speaker 1: got a quote from from Rick to Swaddle in seventeen

1019
00:58:25,320 --> 00:58:27,360
Speaker 1: he said, I knew for a fact of my ancestral

1020
00:58:27,400 --> 00:58:30,760
Speaker 1: grounds were here. Um, if somebody didn't start this then

1021
00:58:30,800 --> 00:58:33,880
Speaker 1: it would never get going. So he was he was

1022
00:58:33,920 --> 00:58:36,120
Speaker 1: cited for this elk Like he went just went in

1023
00:58:36,200 --> 00:58:40,080
Speaker 1: and said, hey, I did this, this, and I'm i'm this,

1024
00:58:40,240 --> 00:58:43,600
Speaker 1: I'm exercising my treaty right, he was cited, he was

1025
00:58:43,640 --> 00:58:50,360
Speaker 1: acquitted in trial, and then the Government of BC appealed

1026
00:58:51,000 --> 00:58:54,520
Speaker 1: and lost, and then appealed and lost, and then appealed

1027
00:58:54,520 --> 00:58:58,520
Speaker 1: to the Canadian Supreme Court. And they just recently ruled

1028
00:58:59,400 --> 00:59:02,680
Speaker 1: um that he had the right to do that, that

1029
00:59:02,680 --> 00:59:10,760
Speaker 1: that he is a Aboriginal person of Canada. Let's see um.

1030
00:59:11,200 --> 00:59:13,520
Speaker 1: It's ruling. The Supreme Court of Canada firms that, regardless

1031
00:59:13,520 --> 00:59:18,080
Speaker 1: of citizenship or residency, Aboriginal peoples of Canada do Canada,

1032
00:59:18,160 --> 00:59:20,480
Speaker 1: do have rights and those rights are protected by the

1033
00:59:20,480 --> 00:59:23,600
Speaker 1: Canadian Constitution. Um. And this is the first time that

1034
00:59:23,640 --> 00:59:25,720
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court of Canada has interpreted what means to

1035
00:59:25,720 --> 00:59:28,880
Speaker 1: be an Aboriginal people of Canada. And that does not

1036
00:59:29,080 --> 00:59:32,360
Speaker 1: require living in Canada. It only requires that your ancestors did.

1037
00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:36,000
Speaker 1: Was this his intention when he killed the elk? Yes,

1038
00:59:37,240 --> 00:59:39,880
Speaker 1: this was This was definitely his This was his goal.

1039
00:59:43,640 --> 00:59:49,240
Speaker 1: Did they seize the elk? That's a great question. I

1040
00:59:49,280 --> 00:59:50,800
Speaker 1: don't know this one as well as her era. It's

1041
00:59:50,800 --> 00:59:58,000
Speaker 1: gonna be dry age by No. That's really interesting, man. Yeah,

1042
00:59:58,160 --> 01:00:00,520
Speaker 1: you want to think that there's a huge ramification, isn't.

1043
01:00:00,600 --> 01:00:02,880
Speaker 1: I mean, it's like there's like it's legally interesting, but

1044
01:00:02,880 --> 01:00:06,040
Speaker 1: I don't know that it's going to be. That's you know,

1045
01:00:06,800 --> 01:00:10,720
Speaker 1: with with all of these it's easy to make a

1046
01:00:10,720 --> 01:00:15,960
Speaker 1: lot of smoke. Yeah, but but it's not always it's

1047
01:00:15,960 --> 01:00:18,280
Speaker 1: not always like it. It's not always born out that

1048
01:00:18,480 --> 01:00:23,640
Speaker 1: it's hard to tell in practice, Like in practice, will

1049
01:00:23,680 --> 01:00:28,360
Speaker 1: there would there be a flood of individuals leaving northern

1050
01:00:28,400 --> 01:00:32,120
Speaker 1: Washington driving into BC and shooting elk or would it

1051
01:00:32,120 --> 01:00:33,840
Speaker 1: be a thing that like will that become a thing

1052
01:00:34,960 --> 01:00:36,880
Speaker 1: or is it just that it will be I wanted

1053
01:00:36,880 --> 01:00:40,720
Speaker 1: to clarify that I could and ten years ago by

1054
01:00:40,760 --> 01:00:43,440
Speaker 1: and you don't hear of anyone going elk hunting in

1055
01:00:43,520 --> 01:00:48,760
Speaker 1: BC from the Colville. It's hard to know. It's a way,

1056
01:00:48,760 --> 01:00:50,800
Speaker 1: it's a waste, it's ways to travel, and that that

1057
01:00:50,920 --> 01:00:55,440
Speaker 1: country up there is vast um and I'm not convinced

1058
01:00:55,480 --> 01:00:57,520
Speaker 1: that the all kind of was it would be better there.

1059
01:00:57,840 --> 01:01:00,000
Speaker 1: And I believe that they have you know, treaty hunt

1060
01:01:00,160 --> 01:01:03,680
Speaker 1: rights in Washington too. So yeah, that's a that's a

1061
01:01:03,840 --> 01:01:05,840
Speaker 1: that's owns a head scratcher, and I need to read

1062
01:01:05,840 --> 01:01:12,360
Speaker 1: more into it. It's interesting kind of duel citizenship. Yeah, Uh,

1063
01:01:12,480 --> 01:01:14,560
Speaker 1: we're gonna hit on something quick. That we talked about

1064
01:01:14,600 --> 01:01:16,600
Speaker 1: quite a bit. I don't want the hill a long

1065
01:01:16,640 --> 01:01:19,920
Speaker 1: time ago. The Horrera case of Wyoming very similar in

1066
01:01:19,960 --> 01:01:22,960
Speaker 1: that has to do with, like, you know, trying to clarify,

1067
01:01:23,200 --> 01:01:25,400
Speaker 1: codify treaty rights. So there's a guy in the Crow

1068
01:01:25,480 --> 01:01:29,960
Speaker 1: Reservation Herrera, what was his first name, Cyn Cleaven Herrera

1069
01:01:30,160 --> 01:01:36,280
Speaker 1: was on the Crow Reservation in Wyoming, former game warden UM.

1070
01:01:36,320 --> 01:01:40,400
Speaker 1: In January, he and two friends crossed out of the

1071
01:01:40,400 --> 01:01:46,360
Speaker 1: Crow Reservation in Montana UH into the Yeah, into Wyoming.

1072
01:01:46,440 --> 01:01:49,959
Speaker 1: They crossed, they crossed the border on foot. They still

1073
01:01:49,960 --> 01:01:53,480
Speaker 1: insist that they didn't mean to that, that they didn't

1074
01:01:53,480 --> 01:01:56,760
Speaker 1: know they had crossed the border, but kind of immaterial

1075
01:01:56,840 --> 01:01:59,760
Speaker 1: at this point. UM. And they killed a couple of

1076
01:01:59,760 --> 01:02:03,920
Speaker 1: elk onto a national forest Bighorn Bighorn National Forest. UM

1077
01:02:04,080 --> 01:02:07,960
Speaker 1: locals found some partially bushered animals, reported to game warden.

1078
01:02:08,240 --> 01:02:11,600
Speaker 1: He conducted an investigation UM, which was assisted to by

1079
01:02:11,600 --> 01:02:16,040
Speaker 1: the fact that Claven Herrera reached out to him UM

1080
01:02:16,080 --> 01:02:19,520
Speaker 1: asking if he had had knew about some poaching or

1081
01:02:19,560 --> 01:02:21,200
Speaker 1: something like that because he was he was a warden

1082
01:02:21,280 --> 01:02:24,840
Speaker 1: at that time, and which lad this this game warden

1083
01:02:24,920 --> 01:02:28,439
Speaker 1: Dustin Sharma, who I've I've spoken to. UM started looking

1084
01:02:28,480 --> 01:02:31,760
Speaker 1: at Herrera's Facebook page and saw pictures of him with

1085
01:02:31,800 --> 01:02:33,480
Speaker 1: elk that He's like, that looks like it's on the

1086
01:02:33,480 --> 01:02:37,080
Speaker 1: Big Horn National Forest. UM went up into that area

1087
01:02:37,640 --> 01:02:42,480
Speaker 1: was able to match those photos UM to elk carcasses,

1088
01:02:43,600 --> 01:02:49,360
Speaker 1: tribal game warden or tribal game warden. Yeah. UM. All

1089
01:02:49,400 --> 01:02:51,960
Speaker 1: three men were charged with poaching and the animals are confiscated.

1090
01:02:52,040 --> 01:02:55,080
Speaker 1: Two of them pleaded guilty, but Herrera claimed UM that

1091
01:02:55,320 --> 01:02:58,640
Speaker 1: under the eighteen sixty eight second Treaty of Fort Laramie,

1092
01:02:59,280 --> 01:03:01,640
Speaker 1: UM that gay and tied his tribal right to hunt

1093
01:03:01,680 --> 01:03:04,520
Speaker 1: on the unoccupied lands of the United States so long

1094
01:03:04,560 --> 01:03:08,920
Speaker 1: as game may be found there on. UM. So this

1095
01:03:08,920 --> 01:03:14,000
Speaker 1: this has this had been litigated before in like, uh,

1096
01:03:14,120 --> 01:03:19,760
Speaker 1: they that's an interesting go ahead language in the treaty,

1097
01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:22,400
Speaker 1: very very interesting so long as game can be found

1098
01:03:22,440 --> 01:03:26,240
Speaker 1: there on because it would say that at one point, elk,

1099
01:03:26,280 --> 01:03:31,080
Speaker 1: we're extirpated from the Bighorn National Forest. Yeah, but all

1100
01:03:31,120 --> 01:03:33,479
Speaker 1: this stuff was there. I mean, yeah, it's just weird

1101
01:03:33,520 --> 01:03:36,120
Speaker 1: to say that that. UM. Like let's say, let's say

1102
01:03:36,880 --> 01:03:40,479
Speaker 1: there was no game there and then someone's walking around

1103
01:03:40,520 --> 01:03:42,320
Speaker 1: they said, well, I'm hunting, and somebody like, but there's

1104
01:03:42,360 --> 01:03:44,520
Speaker 1: no game here, you're violating treaty, right, there's no game here.

1105
01:03:44,960 --> 01:03:47,840
Speaker 1: It's just a weird thing to add in. I guess

1106
01:03:47,920 --> 01:03:51,000
Speaker 1: they probably mean like in perpetuity. Yeah, but you know

1107
01:03:51,080 --> 01:03:53,280
Speaker 1: eighteen sixty eight, you know as well as I do,

1108
01:03:53,400 --> 01:03:55,760
Speaker 1: the you know, the Bison were on their way out

1109
01:03:56,720 --> 01:03:59,080
Speaker 1: in that in that area, and so and some people

1110
01:03:59,080 --> 01:04:01,000
Speaker 1: I have spoken to about this are like, yeah, that

1111
01:04:01,080 --> 01:04:04,120
Speaker 1: was an acknowledgement of the fact that like they saw

1112
01:04:04,120 --> 01:04:06,919
Speaker 1: it as like we're wiping it out, We're wiping out

1113
01:04:07,040 --> 01:04:12,720
Speaker 1: this this area of of game, and it just strike

1114
01:04:13,000 --> 01:04:15,040
Speaker 1: and all these things are so carefully worded. I would

1115
01:04:15,080 --> 01:04:16,680
Speaker 1: love to talk to the person and be like, well,

1116
01:04:16,680 --> 01:04:18,920
Speaker 1: if there's nothing there, who cares. I would love to

1117
01:04:18,920 --> 01:04:21,280
Speaker 1: hear them and go like, oh yeah, but right, here's

1118
01:04:21,280 --> 01:04:23,680
Speaker 1: why I want to clarify. And and but the word

1119
01:04:23,720 --> 01:04:26,520
Speaker 1: unoccupied is by far the most interesting. That's that's the

1120
01:04:26,520 --> 01:04:28,600
Speaker 1: sticky one. And and so this this went before the

1121
01:04:28,600 --> 01:04:33,440
Speaker 1: Supreme Court January nineteen um and they were really interested

1122
01:04:33,440 --> 01:04:36,960
Speaker 1: and unoccupied. And it's pretty interesting to read the transcripts

1123
01:04:37,480 --> 01:04:39,840
Speaker 1: because they were just like goofing off on like what

1124
01:04:39,960 --> 01:04:44,280
Speaker 1: couldn't signify occupation. Is that that because because there there's

1125
01:04:44,360 --> 01:04:47,520
Speaker 1: there's past cases that have said that, um, the area

1126
01:04:47,600 --> 01:04:51,960
Speaker 1: became occupied when Wyoming became a state, because all states

1127
01:04:52,040 --> 01:04:55,600
Speaker 1: enter on the same footing and are able to manage

1128
01:04:55,640 --> 01:04:59,240
Speaker 1: the game in the hunting within their territory. Whole other

1129
01:04:59,320 --> 01:05:03,640
Speaker 1: court case said that those treaty rights had been extinguished

1130
01:05:04,160 --> 01:05:08,280
Speaker 1: when the Bighorn National Forest was was designated and theme

1131
01:05:08,360 --> 01:05:11,600
Speaker 1: occupied by the forest exactly became occupied by the Forest Service.

1132
01:05:11,920 --> 01:05:14,480
Speaker 1: The Supreme Court of the United States disagreed with that.

1133
01:05:14,880 --> 01:05:16,920
Speaker 1: They didn't overturn. They didn't go so far as to

1134
01:05:17,040 --> 01:05:20,800
Speaker 1: overturn that specific opinion. And it's interesting because that specific

1135
01:05:20,800 --> 01:05:23,920
Speaker 1: opinion was the exact same thing. It was a cro

1136
01:05:24,080 --> 01:05:27,320
Speaker 1: tribal member crossing into Wyoming, into the Big Horn National

1137
01:05:27,360 --> 01:05:30,880
Speaker 1: Forest and killing an elk. And so there there's and

1138
01:05:30,920 --> 01:05:35,920
Speaker 1: that does Supreme Court decision from. But then there's another

1139
01:05:36,000 --> 01:05:40,240
Speaker 1: Supreme Court case UM Minnesota versus Millock's Band of Chippwa

1140
01:05:40,400 --> 01:05:44,320
Speaker 1: Indians that designation of of public land did not extinguish

1141
01:05:44,440 --> 01:05:47,320
Speaker 1: hunting and fishing rights. And so basically all the Supreme

1142
01:05:47,360 --> 01:05:52,320
Speaker 1: Court said is that there is unoccupied land. It did

1143
01:05:52,360 --> 01:05:56,240
Speaker 1: not become occupied by statehood or designation of the of

1144
01:05:56,280 --> 01:05:59,880
Speaker 1: the Bighorn National Forest. They toyed around with the ideas

1145
01:06:00,040 --> 01:06:02,120
Speaker 1: like if it's close to a road in a trail,

1146
01:06:02,240 --> 01:06:05,360
Speaker 1: maybe that's occupied. But like, you know, a big gass

1147
01:06:05,360 --> 01:06:09,200
Speaker 1: wilderness area, like you'd be hard pressed to prove occupancy

1148
01:06:09,240 --> 01:06:12,840
Speaker 1: because you literally can't live there or stay there occupy

1149
01:06:13,120 --> 01:06:16,800
Speaker 1: like the permanently occupy the area. So they said that

1150
01:06:16,880 --> 01:06:22,280
Speaker 1: there is not occupancy and that the treaty right is

1151
01:06:22,280 --> 01:06:24,480
Speaker 1: is well and good. But as the Supreme Court usually

1152
01:06:24,480 --> 01:06:26,640
Speaker 1: does it, they gets very narrow ruling and then they

1153
01:06:26,680 --> 01:06:29,520
Speaker 1: remanded it back to the lower courts. So they come

1154
01:06:29,520 --> 01:06:30,800
Speaker 1: back and say that you people are going to need

1155
01:06:30,840 --> 01:06:34,440
Speaker 1: to better defind some things exactly basically in the descent

1156
01:06:35,120 --> 01:06:39,120
Speaker 1: that the Samuel Alito was like, you know, the real

1157
01:06:39,200 --> 01:06:41,360
Speaker 1: issue here is is the is the concept of issue

1158
01:06:41,400 --> 01:06:44,600
Speaker 1: preclusion because this same court case has been played out

1159
01:06:44,640 --> 01:06:49,600
Speaker 1: before the Crow tribal member killed an elk on the

1160
01:06:49,640 --> 01:06:53,560
Speaker 1: Big Horn National Forest and was prosecuted, and they said

1161
01:06:53,600 --> 01:06:57,560
Speaker 1: that that that area was occupied. So that basically this

1162
01:06:57,560 --> 01:07:01,240
Speaker 1: this first lower court uh just went back on that.

1163
01:07:01,280 --> 01:07:04,160
Speaker 1: They're like issue preclusion again because the Supreme Court of

1164
01:07:04,200 --> 01:07:06,080
Speaker 1: the U. S didn't didn't address that except in the

1165
01:07:06,200 --> 01:07:09,440
Speaker 1: in the descent and they said issue preclusion. So now

1166
01:07:09,480 --> 01:07:12,000
Speaker 1: this is being appealed up from the county Circuit Court

1167
01:07:12,120 --> 01:07:17,080
Speaker 1: to the to the Wyoming Circuit Court um, which will

1168
01:07:17,160 --> 01:07:20,600
Speaker 1: likely hold in favor of issue preclusion again. So it'll

1169
01:07:20,640 --> 01:07:24,960
Speaker 1: likely get appealed again. But where a major speed bump

1170
01:07:25,280 --> 01:07:27,920
Speaker 1: in this comes. And so you know, a lot a

1171
01:07:27,960 --> 01:07:30,400
Speaker 1: lot of people were supporting this guy, Claven Herrera going

1172
01:07:30,400 --> 01:07:32,520
Speaker 1: to the Supreme Court, and there's the presumption that he'll

1173
01:07:32,520 --> 01:07:36,280
Speaker 1: go there maybe maybe two more times to work out

1174
01:07:36,280 --> 01:07:39,240
Speaker 1: a bunch of these issues. But he's gotten himself in

1175
01:07:39,320 --> 01:07:42,280
Speaker 1: a lot of trouble with the law since then. In

1176
01:07:44,320 --> 01:07:50,280
Speaker 1: Um he was charged with stealing a car in January,

1177
01:07:50,600 --> 01:07:54,880
Speaker 1: um buying meth in March. When they seized his phone,

1178
01:07:55,280 --> 01:08:01,560
Speaker 1: they found eight hundred and fifty images containing um explicit

1179
01:08:01,640 --> 01:08:07,480
Speaker 1: materials related to children. To be clear, these are all claims, right,

1180
01:08:07,480 --> 01:08:09,959
Speaker 1: This hasn't been this hasn't been gone through jury trial

1181
01:08:10,040 --> 01:08:12,200
Speaker 1: or no. But he's been but he's been officially charged

1182
01:08:12,320 --> 01:08:15,760
Speaker 1: with these with these crimes. And then in July he

1183
01:08:15,800 --> 01:08:23,360
Speaker 1: was accused of strangling somebody. Yeah, so so this this

1184
01:08:23,400 --> 01:08:26,040
Speaker 1: case was like draws into question his ability to revisit

1185
01:08:26,040 --> 01:08:29,040
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court exactly. And it also draws into question

1186
01:08:29,120 --> 01:08:32,120
Speaker 1: his ability to maintain the pro bono support of some

1187
01:08:32,160 --> 01:08:35,000
Speaker 1: of the biggest and fanciest law firms in the United States,

1188
01:08:35,080 --> 01:08:38,960
Speaker 1: because the all those lawyers you know, are always thinking

1189
01:08:38,960 --> 01:08:43,040
Speaker 1: about their public image and a and uh pro bon

1190
01:08:43,200 --> 01:08:47,760
Speaker 1: giving pro bono support to an accused child pornographer does

1191
01:08:47,800 --> 01:08:50,960
Speaker 1: not look good. And even the crow tribe isn't isn't

1192
01:08:51,000 --> 01:08:53,160
Speaker 1: happy about this anymore. And they've been like pushing it

1193
01:08:53,200 --> 01:08:55,280
Speaker 1: and pushing it and pushing it. So like what some

1194
01:08:55,320 --> 01:08:57,360
Speaker 1: people who are reading the tea leaves now are like,

1195
01:08:58,080 --> 01:09:01,240
Speaker 1: they may drop this appeal, they may they may settle

1196
01:09:01,320 --> 01:09:05,120
Speaker 1: this they they may end up not pursuing it. And

1197
01:09:05,160 --> 01:09:08,200
Speaker 1: because the concept of issue preclusion makes it so difficult,

1198
01:09:08,240 --> 01:09:12,200
Speaker 1: because this exact same issue has been litigated before, so

1199
01:09:12,560 --> 01:09:14,960
Speaker 1: they may take a step back, let this one slide

1200
01:09:15,120 --> 01:09:17,800
Speaker 1: like and you know, next time it goes before the

1201
01:09:17,800 --> 01:09:21,519
Speaker 1: Supreme Court, cleavend Herrara maybe in prison. Um, so they're

1202
01:09:21,560 --> 01:09:24,559
Speaker 1: they're like, what, they may stake a step back and

1203
01:09:24,640 --> 01:09:28,559
Speaker 1: let somebody else go push the issue some other time.

1204
01:09:28,960 --> 01:09:30,880
Speaker 1: And if they were smart about it, they would have

1205
01:09:30,920 --> 01:09:33,600
Speaker 1: them poach and elk on Blm land or shoot it,

1206
01:09:33,640 --> 01:09:35,840
Speaker 1: shoot a deer in the in the Big Horn National

1207
01:09:35,920 --> 01:09:39,439
Speaker 1: Forest because the issue of crow to Big Horn National

1208
01:09:39,479 --> 01:09:41,720
Speaker 1: Forest and and killing an elk out of season, that's

1209
01:09:41,720 --> 01:09:45,559
Speaker 1: already been litigated, and that's why we're issue preclusion thing.

1210
01:09:45,880 --> 01:09:47,479
Speaker 1: So they need to take it. They need to take

1211
01:09:47,479 --> 01:09:49,760
Speaker 1: a fresh crack at it if they if they want

1212
01:09:49,760 --> 01:09:52,280
Speaker 1: to get their hunting rights in Wyoming. But it's worth

1213
01:09:52,320 --> 01:09:55,800
Speaker 1: mentioning that after that Supreme Court decision, Montana was like, yeah,

1214
01:09:55,840 --> 01:09:59,639
Speaker 1: you guys are good. Like on public federal public land

1215
01:09:59,720 --> 01:10:06,240
Speaker 1: in in Montana, the Crow tribe can exert their treaty. Right.

1216
01:10:06,520 --> 01:10:09,200
Speaker 1: Can you back up for a second and just explain that,

1217
01:10:09,200 --> 01:10:12,439
Speaker 1: because there's probably people that aren't familiar with what's going on.

1218
01:10:12,560 --> 01:10:16,640
Speaker 1: Like what her Ara is trying to establish here, presumably

1219
01:10:16,800 --> 01:10:21,360
Speaker 1: is that they can go hunt these unoccupied lands without

1220
01:10:21,920 --> 01:10:27,200
Speaker 1: following state fish and game laws. They're they're they're exercising

1221
01:10:27,240 --> 01:10:33,080
Speaker 1: their right too kind of follow their own hunting regulations,

1222
01:10:33,120 --> 01:10:35,599
Speaker 1: if you will, Like they can just go where they

1223
01:10:35,640 --> 01:10:37,880
Speaker 1: want and when they want and hunt how they want

1224
01:10:38,320 --> 01:10:42,840
Speaker 1: rather than following state laws exactly. Okay, And I think

1225
01:10:42,840 --> 01:10:45,400
Speaker 1: the lesson that we had covered this, we sort of

1226
01:10:45,479 --> 01:10:47,639
Speaker 1: drug it out to like the most extreme example would

1227
01:10:47,640 --> 01:10:50,719
Speaker 1: be them going into like Yellowstone, which is within within

1228
01:10:50,800 --> 01:10:57,920
Speaker 1: the territory they're they're old territory. Yeah, especially you said

1229
01:10:58,040 --> 01:11:02,280
Speaker 1: federal land in Montana. Uh, there's like three of Yellowstone

1230
01:11:02,360 --> 01:11:07,280
Speaker 1: National Park that's federal land in Montana. Yeah, so my

1231
01:11:07,479 --> 01:11:11,559
Speaker 1: but Montana doesn't regulate the hunting within Yellowstone National Parks,

1232
01:11:11,560 --> 01:11:15,680
Speaker 1: so that'd be a question for the Park Service specifically.

1233
01:11:15,760 --> 01:11:19,240
Speaker 1: But since we're into the concept you know, of of

1234
01:11:19,360 --> 01:11:24,560
Speaker 1: optics here, that one's that's not a good look. You

1235
01:11:24,600 --> 01:11:28,800
Speaker 1: would get Congress involved in on the wrong and on

1236
01:11:29,120 --> 01:11:32,880
Speaker 1: again against you, and Congress would be the final arbiter

1237
01:11:32,960 --> 01:11:35,639
Speaker 1: of something like this. So it'd be real bad idea

1238
01:11:35,720 --> 01:11:37,639
Speaker 1: for for them to ever go try to shoot something

1239
01:11:37,640 --> 01:11:40,479
Speaker 1: in Yellowstone. Um, and that that would go very poorly

1240
01:11:41,800 --> 01:11:44,439
Speaker 1: go through. Oh I had a comment for it. You

1241
01:11:44,479 --> 01:11:46,720
Speaker 1: jump on the next thing. What was interesting when this

1242
01:11:46,800 --> 01:11:50,320
Speaker 1: went to the Supreme Courts was all these details like

1243
01:11:50,760 --> 01:11:52,800
Speaker 1: rumors that you're here and I don't know how substantiated

1244
01:11:52,840 --> 01:11:56,400
Speaker 1: they are. That um I had heard a rumor again,

1245
01:11:56,400 --> 01:11:59,200
Speaker 1: a rumor unsubstantiated, Like I don't don't have any evidence

1246
01:11:59,200 --> 01:12:00,679
Speaker 1: of this, but I heard a room or from someone

1247
01:12:00,760 --> 01:12:03,799
Speaker 1: that one of these elk had been shot on seventeen

1248
01:12:03,840 --> 01:12:05,760
Speaker 1: or eighteen times. I don't if that's true or not.

1249
01:12:06,000 --> 01:12:08,719
Speaker 1: I had heard that, and I think it is born

1250
01:12:08,760 --> 01:12:12,240
Speaker 1: out that they were only like gourmet butcher only part

1251
01:12:12,360 --> 01:12:16,080
Speaker 1: portions and some elk backstraps, some some Yeah, so they

1252
01:12:16,280 --> 01:12:20,080
Speaker 1: heads and backstraps. One elk not touched at all. Right,

1253
01:12:21,400 --> 01:12:25,720
Speaker 1: and then you factor in the these new revelations or

1254
01:12:25,760 --> 01:12:29,840
Speaker 1: these new things that coincidentally involved this individual. It's all

1255
01:12:29,880 --> 01:12:33,360
Speaker 1: immaterial to the court. Like no one's saying, like the court,

1256
01:12:33,439 --> 01:12:35,880
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court is gonna be like, yeah, well he

1257
01:12:35,960 --> 01:12:38,280
Speaker 1: only just cut the head off. That's not cool. It's

1258
01:12:38,320 --> 01:12:41,080
Speaker 1: like it doesn't matter to them. No one's asking them

1259
01:12:41,080 --> 01:12:43,519
Speaker 1: their opinion about that. It's like can you go shoot out?

1260
01:12:43,720 --> 01:12:45,960
Speaker 1: And so all these little details that in your head

1261
01:12:45,960 --> 01:12:49,160
Speaker 1: are like, hey, I don't know, man, seems real, you know,

1262
01:12:49,960 --> 01:12:56,040
Speaker 1: seems fishy. It doesn't matter. It definitely matters now because

1263
01:12:56,400 --> 01:12:58,679
Speaker 1: you know, the even even the members of the Supreme

1264
01:12:58,680 --> 01:13:00,920
Speaker 1: Court are going to take note of of some of

1265
01:13:00,960 --> 01:13:05,160
Speaker 1: this bigger, bigger stuff. But like especially like Holland and

1266
01:13:05,280 --> 01:13:08,559
Speaker 1: Heart and the Crow tribe. They don't they they may

1267
01:13:08,640 --> 01:13:12,519
Speaker 1: not want to have this guy's name tied up in

1268
01:13:12,560 --> 01:13:14,680
Speaker 1: the in this big, in this big court case. It's

1269
01:13:14,680 --> 01:13:20,160
Speaker 1: just it's a it's a bad look and uh, politically disastrous.

1270
01:13:20,360 --> 01:13:23,080
Speaker 1: So the one final note I want to point out,

1271
01:13:23,560 --> 01:13:29,880
Speaker 1: um again charged, yeah right right, alleged, Yeah, like he

1272
01:13:30,000 --> 01:13:32,519
Speaker 1: was charged with. He hasn't gone, hasn't gone a court,

1273
01:13:32,560 --> 01:13:35,920
Speaker 1: It hasn't been like jury verdict. Charged. Yeah, and so

1274
01:13:36,439 --> 01:13:38,519
Speaker 1: charge of stuff that they didn't do. But that's he

1275
01:13:38,600 --> 01:13:41,320
Speaker 1: was charged. And I know a bunch about a bunch

1276
01:13:41,360 --> 01:13:45,200
Speaker 1: more stuff that is purely alleged, not charged. And I'm

1277
01:13:45,240 --> 01:13:46,960
Speaker 1: not even gonna go so far as to mention it here,

1278
01:13:47,520 --> 01:13:53,080
Speaker 1: but formal charges. Yeah, exactly, Okay, try to uh here,

1279
01:13:53,479 --> 01:13:54,840
Speaker 1: let me see this one up, and I want to

1280
01:13:54,840 --> 01:13:56,800
Speaker 1: talk about this one too. Then we're gonna we're gonna

1281
01:13:57,160 --> 01:14:02,880
Speaker 1: move on to some different subjects. But but I know

1282
01:14:02,920 --> 01:14:07,800
Speaker 1: where to start. In Alaska. You have, UM, Alaska is different.

1283
01:14:07,800 --> 01:14:09,679
Speaker 1: You know, we were here down here in the Lower Ford.

1284
01:14:09,840 --> 01:14:13,840
Speaker 1: You hear about reservations, right, tribal reservations in Alaska when

1285
01:14:13,840 --> 01:14:17,160
Speaker 1: they've kind of divided up Alaska formally, UM, we created

1286
01:14:17,200 --> 01:14:21,640
Speaker 1: these tribal corporations, right, and they maintain a lot of

1287
01:14:21,680 --> 01:14:24,280
Speaker 1: subsistent tribes up there, maintained a lot of subsistence hunting

1288
01:14:24,280 --> 01:14:28,880
Speaker 1: and fishing rights. Game is managed through like federal subsistence

1289
01:14:28,920 --> 01:14:31,599
Speaker 1: boards and the state kind of negotiate together and come

1290
01:14:31,680 --> 01:14:34,920
Speaker 1: up with rules. UM. A couple of years ago there

1291
01:14:34,960 --> 01:14:38,920
Speaker 1: was a thing to happen in south central south central Ish,

1292
01:14:39,000 --> 01:14:47,000
Speaker 1: Alaska where a federal subsistence board made a move in

1293
01:14:47,040 --> 01:14:52,000
Speaker 1: favor of tribal interests that limited big game hunting on

1294
01:14:52,280 --> 01:14:56,400
Speaker 1: federal demount on federally managed public lands, limited big game

1295
01:14:56,520 --> 01:15:03,400
Speaker 1: hunting to exclude certain individuals and to make it certain

1296
01:15:03,439 --> 01:15:06,920
Speaker 1: like big game hunting for moose certain times a year

1297
01:15:07,280 --> 01:15:13,840
Speaker 1: only open to tribal groups or subsistence sistence subsistence groups um.

1298
01:15:13,880 --> 01:15:17,880
Speaker 1: And those are pretty small areas. Now in Alaska there's

1299
01:15:17,880 --> 01:15:20,799
Speaker 1: a move to I think it does it encompass sixty

1300
01:15:20,880 --> 01:15:25,519
Speaker 1: million acres of federally managed public land to make it

1301
01:15:26,560 --> 01:15:31,680
Speaker 1: tribal members that that subsist or tribal subsistence. For my

1302
01:15:31,680 --> 01:15:36,080
Speaker 1: messiness upper is it just federal subsistence. Federal subsistence and

1303
01:15:36,120 --> 01:15:42,080
Speaker 1: I think sixty million acres of federally managed land would

1304
01:15:42,120 --> 01:15:45,439
Speaker 1: be closed to not just non residents of Alaska, but

1305
01:15:45,600 --> 01:15:49,519
Speaker 1: closed to residents of Alaska. Sixty million acres closed the

1306
01:15:49,680 --> 01:15:54,200
Speaker 1: residents of Alaska, and during the fall Big Game season

1307
01:15:54,400 --> 01:16:05,120
Speaker 1: only open two federally recognized assistance users. Um just for

1308
01:16:05,280 --> 01:16:08,200
Speaker 1: to demonstrate my own biases. I hunted this area one

1309
01:16:08,240 --> 01:16:11,920
Speaker 1: time for care. But which would now be if this

1310
01:16:12,040 --> 01:16:15,800
Speaker 1: goes through, which would be illegal for me to do. Yeah. Absolutely,

1311
01:16:15,880 --> 01:16:21,760
Speaker 1: And I think it's really important to acknowledge the Rhode Islands. Yeah,

1312
01:16:22,320 --> 01:16:23,920
Speaker 1: this is this is not a this is not a

1313
01:16:23,960 --> 01:16:27,559
Speaker 1: tribal thing. This is this is not a tribe versus

1314
01:16:27,920 --> 01:16:32,280
Speaker 1: versus the white man. This is this is everybody against everybody.

1315
01:16:32,320 --> 01:16:34,680
Speaker 1: A lot of these communities are very diverse, and have

1316
01:16:35,080 --> 01:16:38,240
Speaker 1: you know a lot of Korean influence and uh, there's

1317
01:16:38,240 --> 01:16:39,680
Speaker 1: a lot of there's a lot of a lot of

1318
01:16:39,680 --> 01:16:42,360
Speaker 1: white people and all sorts of races out there. So

1319
01:16:42,439 --> 01:16:45,559
Speaker 1: it's it's it's more locals versus outsiders. And that sixty

1320
01:16:45,600 --> 01:16:47,519
Speaker 1: million acres is really easy to picture if you like

1321
01:16:47,560 --> 01:16:51,599
Speaker 1: think of Alaska. It's basically like the upper left hand corner.

1322
01:16:51,640 --> 01:16:54,679
Speaker 1: It's a giant area unit units twenty three and twenty

1323
01:16:54,760 --> 01:17:01,400
Speaker 1: six A the Northwest Arctic UM and the and so Yeah,

1324
01:17:01,439 --> 01:17:05,840
Speaker 1: the Subsistence Board up there in April submitted a special

1325
01:17:05,840 --> 01:17:09,200
Speaker 1: action and request to close that UM that that special

1326
01:17:09,280 --> 01:17:14,480
Speaker 1: action request is submitted to the Federal Subsistence Board UM.

1327
01:17:14,520 --> 01:17:16,840
Speaker 1: That board is made up of three local subsistence hunting

1328
01:17:16,840 --> 01:17:21,439
Speaker 1: community representatives and five representatives from government agencies including the BLM,

1329
01:17:21,520 --> 01:17:24,439
Speaker 1: the Forest Service, National Park Service, US Fishing, Wildlife Service,

1330
01:17:25,080 --> 01:17:29,800
Speaker 1: and the Indian Bureau of Indian Affairs UM. Basically, uh,

1331
01:17:30,080 --> 01:17:34,519
Speaker 1: they they've been getting really upset with with with UM

1332
01:17:34,520 --> 01:17:36,880
Speaker 1: out of outside hunters coming in like you and me

1333
01:17:37,000 --> 01:17:40,800
Speaker 1: flying in. They think it's disturbing the migrations. But it's not.

1334
01:17:41,560 --> 01:17:44,160
Speaker 1: It's not a resource issue, it's social issue. It's a

1335
01:17:44,200 --> 01:17:47,400
Speaker 1: social issue. The herd is strong, there's a lot of

1336
01:17:47,439 --> 01:17:49,280
Speaker 1: animals as people don't want to deal. They don't want

1337
01:17:49,320 --> 01:17:51,800
Speaker 1: to deal with other people. It's not like someone can say, like, hey,

1338
01:17:51,840 --> 01:17:56,120
Speaker 1: that carib we're vanishing. It's that UM. There's a plenty

1339
01:17:56,160 --> 01:17:58,120
Speaker 1: of animals, but the spot I go to and sometimes

1340
01:17:58,160 --> 01:17:59,719
Speaker 1: there's other people they're not don't want those other people

1341
01:17:59,720 --> 01:18:01,519
Speaker 1: to be there. Well, and you need to explain that.

1342
01:18:01,600 --> 01:18:05,080
Speaker 1: Like so it's what is subsistent. What is the subsistence

1343
01:18:05,240 --> 01:18:10,680
Speaker 1: subsistence community? Like, what's the difference here? Certain certain in

1344
01:18:10,760 --> 01:18:14,360
Speaker 1: certain zip codes, your your subsistence using you can qualify

1345
01:18:15,360 --> 01:18:17,360
Speaker 1: not in a major metric, not a major urban area.

1346
01:18:17,479 --> 01:18:21,800
Speaker 1: Is that an economic space thing? Yeah? I think you

1347
01:18:21,800 --> 01:18:26,040
Speaker 1: could be Bill Gates with all his troubles. Bill Gates

1348
01:18:26,040 --> 01:18:29,920
Speaker 1: could live in uh. Bill Gates could live in certain

1349
01:18:30,479 --> 01:18:34,000
Speaker 1: areas ones up being the majority of Alaska and be

1350
01:18:34,080 --> 01:18:36,120
Speaker 1: a local subsistence user. It has nothing to do with

1351
01:18:36,160 --> 01:18:37,880
Speaker 1: your has nothing to do with your means, as to

1352
01:18:37,880 --> 01:18:40,120
Speaker 1: do with your primary place of resident. What I'm saying is,

1353
01:18:40,160 --> 01:18:44,240
Speaker 1: what's the difference between subsistence and say, if I went

1354
01:18:44,320 --> 01:18:48,400
Speaker 1: up there to hunt, you would not be up there

1355
01:18:48,439 --> 01:18:50,720
Speaker 1: hunting under for the subsistence law. You would not be

1356
01:18:50,840 --> 01:18:57,439
Speaker 1: hunting under federal subsistence. Let me give you, Okay, if

1357
01:18:57,560 --> 01:19:03,560
Speaker 1: I lived at if I moved my fish shack, okay,

1358
01:19:03,800 --> 01:19:06,559
Speaker 1: and that became a primary place of residence is at

1359
01:19:06,600 --> 01:19:09,960
Speaker 1: my fish chack, I would be able to right now

1360
01:19:10,040 --> 01:19:16,040
Speaker 1: on federal lands, my dear season as a or if

1361
01:19:16,040 --> 01:19:18,040
Speaker 1: I lived in Fairbanks or Anchorage or anywhere in the

1362
01:19:18,040 --> 01:19:20,759
Speaker 1: lower forty eight Okay, as a person lives in Montana

1363
01:19:20,840 --> 01:19:23,080
Speaker 1: has a fish shack there. I can hunt deer on

1364
01:19:23,160 --> 01:19:27,360
Speaker 1: federal lands starting on August fifteen. If I lived at

1365
01:19:27,360 --> 01:19:30,479
Speaker 1: my fish shack full time, I could start hunting deer.

1366
01:19:30,479 --> 01:19:33,439
Speaker 1: I think sometime in June. I am limited to only

1367
01:19:33,520 --> 01:19:36,400
Speaker 1: antlered deer. If I lived at my fish shack full time,

1368
01:19:36,479 --> 01:19:39,720
Speaker 1: I could shoot dose. If I lived in my fish

1369
01:19:39,720 --> 01:19:42,120
Speaker 1: shack full time, I could run a halibit long line

1370
01:19:43,439 --> 01:19:45,840
Speaker 1: with thirty hooks. If I lived in my fish shack

1371
01:19:45,920 --> 01:19:48,479
Speaker 1: full time, I could run ninety black cod hooks on

1372
01:19:48,520 --> 01:19:51,080
Speaker 1: a on a long line. Yeah, that's why I would

1373
01:19:51,120 --> 01:19:55,599
Speaker 1: have I would have no halibate limit off my long line.

1374
01:19:55,720 --> 01:19:58,400
Speaker 1: That's why I have. I have a halibut limit of

1375
01:19:58,439 --> 01:20:04,560
Speaker 1: two per day. This way, the subsistence rules and regulations

1376
01:20:04,600 --> 01:20:07,519
Speaker 1: are different. You can run and it's it's funny in

1377
01:20:07,560 --> 01:20:12,920
Speaker 1: some areas because you could live an anchorage. But there's

1378
01:20:12,960 --> 01:20:15,760
Speaker 1: areas where if you go and you're you're an Alaska

1379
01:20:15,840 --> 01:20:19,360
Speaker 1: resident in a subsistence area, you can then operate under

1380
01:20:19,400 --> 01:20:22,760
Speaker 1: subsistence regulations. For instance, a person from Anchorage could go

1381
01:20:22,800 --> 01:20:26,240
Speaker 1: to certain areas on the Alaska Peninsula and run a

1382
01:20:26,320 --> 01:20:30,280
Speaker 1: drift gillnet. Does your brother do any of that, Like

1383
01:20:30,360 --> 01:20:32,439
Speaker 1: does he have access to that? No, I don't know,

1384
01:20:32,560 --> 01:20:35,080
Speaker 1: but you know they do. See it gets a little

1385
01:20:35,080 --> 01:20:36,559
Speaker 1: I get a little bit over my waiters on this

1386
01:20:36,640 --> 01:20:39,639
Speaker 1: because they go dip Like he every year goes dip netting.

1387
01:20:39,760 --> 01:20:42,439
Speaker 1: So he every year goes to the copper or Kenai

1388
01:20:42,479 --> 01:20:45,439
Speaker 1: whatever these rivers um and they'll go down there and

1389
01:20:45,439 --> 01:20:48,080
Speaker 1: it's like you're a loud twenty five sock eyes for

1390
01:20:48,120 --> 01:20:50,800
Speaker 1: the head of a household and ten sock eyes forevery

1391
01:20:50,840 --> 01:20:54,320
Speaker 1: additional household member, and you can net them. Can you

1392
01:20:54,600 --> 01:20:59,000
Speaker 1: explain the principle of I mean, I think we know

1393
01:20:59,080 --> 01:21:02,920
Speaker 1: what subsistence means as a word, but the principle of

1394
01:21:03,160 --> 01:21:07,840
Speaker 1: establishing subsistence, Yeah, it was that when Alaska entered into

1395
01:21:07,920 --> 01:21:15,559
Speaker 1: statehood no Anilka. That's what established as we know today. Yeah,

1396
01:21:15,600 --> 01:21:19,639
Speaker 1: so the Alaska National Interest Lands Conservation Act. I probably

1397
01:21:19,640 --> 01:21:23,599
Speaker 1: got that backwards, but um in the seventies, which was

1398
01:21:23,720 --> 01:21:27,080
Speaker 1: what you know under the Carter administration, which was what

1399
01:21:27,240 --> 01:21:31,160
Speaker 1: kind of created the the tapestry of the federal public

1400
01:21:31,240 --> 01:21:33,960
Speaker 1: lands that we know today in Alaska. That's what established

1401
01:21:34,000 --> 01:21:37,280
Speaker 1: the reagonal subsistence boards and the system that we know.

1402
01:21:37,400 --> 01:21:42,000
Speaker 1: And it also gave pre eminence of subsistence harvest over

1403
01:21:42,680 --> 01:21:47,400
Speaker 1: recreational harvest. So in any of these considerations, subsistence comes first.

1404
01:21:47,720 --> 01:21:52,080
Speaker 1: The people who the people who actually live off the land,

1405
01:21:52,520 --> 01:21:55,160
Speaker 1: they get they get they get first, they get first.

1406
01:21:55,200 --> 01:21:59,680
Speaker 1: Helping always, but no, go ahead. It doesn't need to

1407
01:21:59,720 --> 01:22:02,599
Speaker 1: be the act. They don't define it. It doesn't need

1408
01:22:02,640 --> 01:22:04,880
Speaker 1: to be that you actually live off the land. It's

1409
01:22:04,880 --> 01:22:12,040
Speaker 1: where you live, right, billionaire and eat twinkies. I have

1410
01:22:12,080 --> 01:22:14,240
Speaker 1: a great example. And you could be a subsistence You

1411
01:22:14,280 --> 01:22:16,320
Speaker 1: can be a subsistence users just where you live. And

1412
01:22:16,320 --> 01:22:18,160
Speaker 1: I think, and I'm pretty sure when I was talking

1413
01:22:18,200 --> 01:22:20,920
Speaker 1: about the dip netting, I don't even think that's federal.

1414
01:22:21,000 --> 01:22:23,320
Speaker 1: I think that's a state thing. But still state. I

1415
01:22:23,320 --> 01:22:25,599
Speaker 1: think dip netting is still states. I'm sure thousand people

1416
01:22:25,640 --> 01:22:28,960
Speaker 1: correct me on that. Again. Man, it's a it's a

1417
01:22:29,000 --> 01:22:35,120
Speaker 1: byzantine Um like regulatory structure that I know a little

1418
01:22:35,160 --> 01:22:37,240
Speaker 1: snippets of. I am not a subject matter expert on

1419
01:22:37,280 --> 01:22:40,479
Speaker 1: this stuff. Yeah, And and it is really interesting. Byzantine

1420
01:22:40,520 --> 01:22:42,439
Speaker 1: might be a good word for it, because these regional

1421
01:22:42,439 --> 01:22:47,559
Speaker 1: subsistence boards, of which they are ten um, basically can

1422
01:22:47,800 --> 01:22:50,200
Speaker 1: do a lot of the season setting for the area

1423
01:22:50,560 --> 01:22:54,240
Speaker 1: within you know, within their kind of their their territory. Um.

1424
01:22:54,560 --> 01:22:57,760
Speaker 1: So this this Regional Subsistence Board in the Northwest ARTIC

1425
01:22:57,840 --> 01:23:01,360
Speaker 1: has submitted this special action request to close cariboo and

1426
01:23:01,360 --> 01:23:05,120
Speaker 1: moose harvest during the cariboo and moose season for just

1427
01:23:05,120 --> 01:23:09,000
Speaker 1: just this year. That's what the special action request August

1428
01:23:09,000 --> 01:23:13,599
Speaker 1: in September closed to non federally qualified subsistence. It has

1429
01:23:13,640 --> 01:23:16,200
Speaker 1: the final goal here, no, of course not no. And

1430
01:23:16,200 --> 01:23:18,679
Speaker 1: it's worth pointing out here that the State Game Agency

1431
01:23:18,720 --> 01:23:23,599
Speaker 1: hates us, hates this because they're their management authority. Their

1432
01:23:23,640 --> 01:23:28,280
Speaker 1: management authority is being pulled, attempting. People are attempting to

1433
01:23:28,320 --> 01:23:32,479
Speaker 1: pull their management authority from a quadrant of the state.

1434
01:23:33,080 --> 01:23:35,240
Speaker 1: And it's not even an issue of resource abundance, no,

1435
01:23:35,520 --> 01:23:37,479
Speaker 1: not at all. And they're fighting that. That that the

1436
01:23:37,520 --> 01:23:40,360
Speaker 1: one you mentioned that from a couple of years ago previously,

1437
01:23:40,360 --> 01:23:43,519
Speaker 1: the nel China Unit g MU. They're fighting that in

1438
01:23:43,600 --> 01:23:46,679
Speaker 1: court like tooth and nail and um they they said,

1439
01:23:46,920 --> 01:23:49,920
Speaker 1: I mean um. Ben Mulligan, who I talked to last night,

1440
01:23:49,960 --> 01:23:53,200
Speaker 1: said like all avenues available to us. You know, this

1441
01:23:53,320 --> 01:23:57,479
Speaker 1: is like all out war against this. So there was

1442
01:23:57,520 --> 01:24:01,920
Speaker 1: a hearing on April on April before the Federal Subsistence Board. UM,

1443
01:24:02,360 --> 01:24:05,519
Speaker 1: and that was pretty interesting. I wasn't actually able to

1444
01:24:05,560 --> 01:24:08,760
Speaker 1: go to it, but ran four and a half hours long. Uh.

1445
01:24:08,800 --> 01:24:12,600
Speaker 1: They opened a five day written comment period. All of

1446
01:24:12,640 --> 01:24:14,519
Speaker 1: this is brand new. They're they're used to being a

1447
01:24:14,560 --> 01:24:17,719
Speaker 1: rubber stamp agency. They're used to being thanked for everything

1448
01:24:17,760 --> 01:24:22,200
Speaker 1: they do by these subsistence communities because there does their

1449
01:24:22,240 --> 01:24:25,120
Speaker 1: Their government governing structure is meant to be very permissive

1450
01:24:25,200 --> 01:24:29,120
Speaker 1: towards these regional subsistence boards and to be to assist

1451
01:24:29,200 --> 01:24:31,360
Speaker 1: them in what they would like to do and the

1452
01:24:31,439 --> 01:24:33,920
Speaker 1: changes they'd like to seek. And they're not used to

1453
01:24:34,000 --> 01:24:37,240
Speaker 1: anybody paying any any the slightest bit of attention. There's

1454
01:24:37,360 --> 01:24:39,559
Speaker 1: never more than a dozen people there and it's mostly

1455
01:24:39,600 --> 01:24:44,040
Speaker 1: just like agency representatives. They took um spoken testimony from

1456
01:24:44,040 --> 01:24:50,280
Speaker 1: a hundred and six people over six hours or something. UM.

1457
01:24:50,320 --> 01:24:53,080
Speaker 1: They're fourteen in support of this special action request and

1458
01:24:53,160 --> 01:24:56,679
Speaker 1: ninety two against it. UM. There were several like entire families,

1459
01:24:56,720 --> 01:25:01,200
Speaker 1: including the grandfather, father son, grandson. Kind of because you're

1460
01:25:01,240 --> 01:25:03,879
Speaker 1: you're locking out. It's a lot of stuff in Alaska.

1461
01:25:03,880 --> 01:25:07,400
Speaker 1: You look at it being like outsiders versus insiders, you know,

1462
01:25:07,760 --> 01:25:10,240
Speaker 1: certain bag limit things and like you know, you kind

1463
01:25:10,240 --> 01:25:12,760
Speaker 1: of non residents pay more, they have less, you know,

1464
01:25:13,000 --> 01:25:15,599
Speaker 1: less access to resources, and and that's fine. That's that's

1465
01:25:15,640 --> 01:25:18,080
Speaker 1: how it goes in every state. This is like Alaskans

1466
01:25:18,080 --> 01:25:23,320
Speaker 1: against Alaskas. This is saying to Alaskans, um, you just

1467
01:25:23,439 --> 01:25:28,000
Speaker 1: lost access to too, like the northwest quadrant of your

1468
01:25:28,040 --> 01:25:32,680
Speaker 1: state on federal land. It's also a violation. There's always been,

1469
01:25:32,720 --> 01:25:35,080
Speaker 1: not always. I think that in the country we strive

1470
01:25:35,160 --> 01:25:37,080
Speaker 1: towards this sort of like separation church and state. You

1471
01:25:37,120 --> 01:25:39,439
Speaker 1: have a lot of federally managed lands, right, and I

1472
01:25:39,439 --> 01:25:42,320
Speaker 1: think that's a great system. Federally managed public lands are

1473
01:25:42,400 --> 01:25:44,880
Speaker 1: pretty secure. And I like federally managed public lands, while

1474
01:25:44,920 --> 01:25:48,360
Speaker 1: they found it at its best is managed by the state.

1475
01:25:48,439 --> 01:25:50,240
Speaker 1: Some people be like how can they both? How how

1476
01:25:50,280 --> 01:25:51,840
Speaker 1: can it be okay for the government to manage land

1477
01:25:51,880 --> 01:25:53,880
Speaker 1: and stay selangel wild? Like it just works really good

1478
01:25:54,640 --> 01:25:57,720
Speaker 1: and I don't like to see Yeah, it round up

1479
01:25:57,720 --> 01:26:00,800
Speaker 1: and it's been successful and people don't want to see

1480
01:26:00,800 --> 01:26:04,200
Speaker 1: it interrupted. Yeah, ain't broke. Are the locals that are

1481
01:26:04,320 --> 01:26:06,840
Speaker 1: in support of this, the minority of locals that are

1482
01:26:06,880 --> 01:26:10,040
Speaker 1: in support of this justifying it because they're saying they're

1483
01:26:10,080 --> 01:26:13,080
Speaker 1: having a harder time feeding themselves or what. So that's

1484
01:26:13,200 --> 01:26:15,880
Speaker 1: what they're saying. They believe that Caribou migrations have been

1485
01:26:15,960 --> 01:26:19,280
Speaker 1: drastically interrupted, and they're blaming that on outside hunting, where

1486
01:26:19,280 --> 01:26:22,639
Speaker 1: a lot of people are like, might be climate change,

1487
01:26:23,280 --> 01:26:28,360
Speaker 1: the snow patterns, the weather patterns, the seasonal UH temperature

1488
01:26:28,400 --> 01:26:32,880
Speaker 1: has been a lot different, well, plus migrations migration. I mean,

1489
01:26:32,880 --> 01:26:36,320
Speaker 1: it's a whole field of study. Carribou migration routes change

1490
01:26:36,640 --> 01:26:40,320
Speaker 1: gradually all the time. And this Cariboo population Ta tonics,

1491
01:26:40,320 --> 01:26:43,559
Speaker 1: they drift all over the place. Yeah, for twenty years

1492
01:26:44,040 --> 01:26:46,439
Speaker 1: they'll cross the river in some place and then twenty

1493
01:26:46,479 --> 01:26:48,080
Speaker 1: years ago by and they don't come within a hundred

1494
01:26:48,080 --> 01:26:50,920
Speaker 1: miles there. Yeah, And like s C I and b

1495
01:26:51,200 --> 01:26:54,679
Speaker 1: H A and t R c P all submitted comments

1496
01:26:54,760 --> 01:26:56,679
Speaker 1: on this and have taken an active role. And that's

1497
01:26:56,680 --> 01:26:59,120
Speaker 1: what I mean. B h A specifically in my article

1498
01:26:59,160 --> 01:27:02,080
Speaker 1: about this, I quote you guys said, it's saying like, hey,

1499
01:27:02,120 --> 01:27:04,320
Speaker 1: you know, might be some other it might be some

1500
01:27:04,360 --> 01:27:09,400
Speaker 1: other things, but there's also an element of um. There's

1501
01:27:09,400 --> 01:27:11,040
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff in the in the testimony and

1502
01:27:11,040 --> 01:27:14,240
Speaker 1: in the special action request about poor treatment from outsiders

1503
01:27:14,280 --> 01:27:16,400
Speaker 1: that people are are rude to them when they run

1504
01:27:16,400 --> 01:27:19,240
Speaker 1: into them on the co Book River, that that they like,

1505
01:27:19,400 --> 01:27:23,320
Speaker 1: this guy was an asshole to me. Social it's it's

1506
01:27:23,360 --> 01:27:27,240
Speaker 1: completely social issue. I don't think you can hold sixty

1507
01:27:27,280 --> 01:27:30,200
Speaker 1: million acres of land hostage over some people not getting along.

1508
01:27:30,320 --> 01:27:32,759
Speaker 1: There are other ways to solve There are other ways

1509
01:27:32,760 --> 01:27:35,360
Speaker 1: the resolve issues, especially when people have you know, a

1510
01:27:35,360 --> 01:27:38,200
Speaker 1: constitutional right to the same access to that you know

1511
01:27:38,280 --> 01:27:42,320
Speaker 1: for a service or US Fish and Wildlife Service ground uh.

1512
01:27:42,360 --> 01:27:45,160
Speaker 1: We first covered this on the website on April sixteenth.

1513
01:27:45,240 --> 01:27:47,840
Speaker 1: Now over a month later, has the sentiment changed at

1514
01:27:47,840 --> 01:27:51,479
Speaker 1: all around this or like organizations in the state and

1515
01:27:51,479 --> 01:27:53,360
Speaker 1: everyone else, they all still have the same stance as

1516
01:27:53,360 --> 01:27:56,439
Speaker 1: a month ago. The trenches are deeper. UM. This is

1517
01:27:56,479 --> 01:27:59,200
Speaker 1: likely going to going to go before of a vote

1518
01:27:59,360 --> 01:28:01,840
Speaker 1: of the board in mid June. The date hasn't been

1519
01:28:01,880 --> 01:28:07,160
Speaker 1: set yet. UM and A d F and G is

1520
01:28:07,160 --> 01:28:10,240
Speaker 1: is very worried that it's going to pass. Like Fishing Game,

1521
01:28:10,240 --> 01:28:13,400
Speaker 1: Alaska's fishing game. My my my contact Ben was was

1522
01:28:13,439 --> 01:28:15,880
Speaker 1: saying that it's like it's very likely that this will pass.

1523
01:28:15,960 --> 01:28:20,080
Speaker 1: The board may try to the bit board may try

1524
01:28:20,080 --> 01:28:22,840
Speaker 1: to dismiss it. They may try to seek compromise, they

1525
01:28:22,880 --> 01:28:25,479
Speaker 1: may also pass it. So, like I said, there's eight

1526
01:28:25,520 --> 01:28:32,120
Speaker 1: members of that board, three of which are regional subsistence representatives.

1527
01:28:32,479 --> 01:28:36,559
Speaker 1: One's Bureau of Indian Affairs, so that's four in favor

1528
01:28:36,600 --> 01:28:38,600
Speaker 1: of The rest are federal agencies. The one from the

1529
01:28:38,640 --> 01:28:40,680
Speaker 1: parks are the guy from the Park Services new So

1530
01:28:40,720 --> 01:28:42,840
Speaker 1: they don't really know how he's going to go, but

1531
01:28:42,920 --> 01:28:45,000
Speaker 1: they've and they've had they've had a hung vote before

1532
01:28:45,040 --> 01:28:48,639
Speaker 1: because it's it's even numbers, so like that, they're they're

1533
01:28:48,640 --> 01:28:51,360
Speaker 1: working on that math. They don't know, but they're definitely

1534
01:28:51,400 --> 01:28:53,559
Speaker 1: bracing for this to go through. You know, this is

1535
01:28:53,600 --> 01:28:57,280
Speaker 1: like if you have any interest in any interest in

1536
01:28:57,360 --> 01:28:59,240
Speaker 1: hunting or fishing in Alaska, this song you gotta pay

1537
01:28:59,240 --> 01:29:01,040
Speaker 1: attention to her. The more talking about the guy crossing

1538
01:29:01,080 --> 01:29:03,360
Speaker 1: from Washington and to BC to shooting out, it's like

1539
01:29:04,120 --> 01:29:06,599
Speaker 1: significant legally, but what is it really going to mean

1540
01:29:06,800 --> 01:29:11,479
Speaker 1: this right here, because there are plenty of other areas.

1541
01:29:12,120 --> 01:29:14,679
Speaker 1: We're already talking about sixty million acres, there are plenty

1542
01:29:14,680 --> 01:29:16,880
Speaker 1: of other areas to say like, oh, you mean, we

1543
01:29:16,920 --> 01:29:19,080
Speaker 1: can just cite the fact that we don't want to

1544
01:29:19,120 --> 01:29:22,120
Speaker 1: have to deal with competition as a reason to shut

1545
01:29:22,160 --> 01:29:24,479
Speaker 1: down millions of acres of federal land and make it

1546
01:29:24,520 --> 01:29:26,519
Speaker 1: that it's for us only. You don't think that that's

1547
01:29:26,560 --> 01:29:34,040
Speaker 1: going to be an appealing prospect to people. Yeah, it potentially, um,

1548
01:29:34,080 --> 01:29:41,799
Speaker 1: it potentially completely completely rewrites what if they said, Prince

1549
01:29:41,800 --> 01:29:46,479
Speaker 1: of Wales, is you know for blacktailed the blacktail deer

1550
01:29:46,520 --> 01:29:48,920
Speaker 1: harvest has been because one time I was going to

1551
01:29:49,040 --> 01:29:50,720
Speaker 1: fish this spot and there was another guy there. He

1552
01:29:50,760 --> 01:29:55,280
Speaker 1: had a bunch of TV cameras with him. You know,

1553
01:29:55,439 --> 01:29:59,200
Speaker 1: this is this is a perfect example. I mean, populations

1554
01:29:59,200 --> 01:30:02,559
Speaker 1: are growing, there are more people on the landscape, more people,

1555
01:30:02,840 --> 01:30:07,639
Speaker 1: you know, using all of this space and interacting and

1556
01:30:08,200 --> 01:30:11,639
Speaker 1: social science is a huge problem, and we're not equipping

1557
01:30:12,000 --> 01:30:16,559
Speaker 1: our agencies with social scientists like we should. We're you know,

1558
01:30:16,600 --> 01:30:20,639
Speaker 1: we're expecting these biologists who are used to managing animals, right,

1559
01:30:20,680 --> 01:30:24,000
Speaker 1: that's the job is managing animal populations. They're now in

1560
01:30:24,040 --> 01:30:27,160
Speaker 1: the throes of managing people and the people interaction with

1561
01:30:27,200 --> 01:30:29,479
Speaker 1: the people, and then the people interaction with the animals.

1562
01:30:29,520 --> 01:30:33,640
Speaker 1: And um, they need they need more tools in their

1563
01:30:33,720 --> 01:30:36,280
Speaker 1: chest to be managing this will be in your in

1564
01:30:36,280 --> 01:30:38,919
Speaker 1: your opinion, what would be one of those tools, literally

1565
01:30:39,280 --> 01:30:43,400
Speaker 1: more social scientists working with the agencies actually dealing with

1566
01:30:43,439 --> 01:30:47,360
Speaker 1: people interactions so the biologists can work on the animals. Um,

1567
01:30:47,400 --> 01:30:49,400
Speaker 1: it's about people interaction. You see things like that in

1568
01:30:49,400 --> 01:30:51,679
Speaker 1: Montana all the time. You see you know, the Madison

1569
01:30:51,760 --> 01:30:54,000
Speaker 1: going crazy, you see controversy over there. You just see

1570
01:30:54,000 --> 01:30:58,000
Speaker 1: this stuff is happening. It's increasing increasing as more people

1571
01:30:58,000 --> 01:31:03,479
Speaker 1: are outside enjoying everything that we enjoy. Yeah, UM, explain

1572
01:31:03,479 --> 01:31:07,400
Speaker 1: your job a little bit. My job Director of Innovatible Alliance.

1573
01:31:07,520 --> 01:31:09,000
Speaker 1: I don't know what. I don't know what that means. Yeah.

1574
01:31:09,320 --> 01:31:13,560
Speaker 1: So I have created and building out a business development

1575
01:31:13,880 --> 01:31:18,000
Speaker 1: and fundraising arm for back country hunters and anglers. Um

1576
01:31:18,040 --> 01:31:20,120
Speaker 1: So Yeah, basically, I like to call our team the

1577
01:31:20,200 --> 01:31:24,000
Speaker 1: energy development team. So we're out finding resources, um to

1578
01:31:24,040 --> 01:31:26,600
Speaker 1: support all of our members work on the ground. What

1579
01:31:26,640 --> 01:31:32,200
Speaker 1: does that look like? Money? Fundraising, fundraising and partnerships, working

1580
01:31:32,200 --> 01:31:34,639
Speaker 1: with people like you've been on b h a's board

1581
01:31:34,680 --> 01:31:37,760
Speaker 1: for a long time or b h A volunteering and

1582
01:31:37,760 --> 01:31:41,200
Speaker 1: board member positions state level? Yeah? And I you know,

1583
01:31:41,240 --> 01:31:44,840
Speaker 1: I have a I have a super fun career path

1584
01:31:45,000 --> 01:31:48,960
Speaker 1: and life that has led me in amazing directions. Um.

1585
01:31:49,080 --> 01:31:51,840
Speaker 1: I started working with b h A as a volunteer

1586
01:31:51,880 --> 01:31:56,040
Speaker 1: when I worked for a farms manufacturer. UM. Actually, um,

1587
01:31:56,080 --> 01:31:59,639
Speaker 1: you know, Kimber Manufacturing, and you know, sold guns and

1588
01:32:00,360 --> 01:32:03,479
Speaker 1: started um displaying at rendezvous UM back you know, like

1589
01:32:03,520 --> 01:32:06,280
Speaker 1: eight nine years ago, and yeah, go and set up

1590
01:32:06,320 --> 01:32:08,720
Speaker 1: and and talk about guns and UM that's how I

1591
01:32:08,760 --> 01:32:12,000
Speaker 1: got to know b h A. I just you know,

1592
01:32:12,120 --> 01:32:14,760
Speaker 1: in that action, started interacting with the members of b

1593
01:32:14,920 --> 01:32:17,559
Speaker 1: h A and was just like so awe struck by

1594
01:32:17,920 --> 01:32:21,160
Speaker 1: the amazing people who are out there really caring about

1595
01:32:21,160 --> 01:32:24,600
Speaker 1: and loving public lands and wildlife and hunting and angling heritage.

1596
01:32:24,600 --> 01:32:27,960
Speaker 1: And so I started to get more involved with the organization. UM.

1597
01:32:28,120 --> 01:32:31,639
Speaker 1: Then you know, through volunteering and everything. UM, became a

1598
01:32:31,680 --> 01:32:36,400
Speaker 1: board member on the national board. UM. And then I

1599
01:32:36,520 --> 01:32:38,880
Speaker 1: ended my work. UM. I was tapped as I was

1600
01:32:38,920 --> 01:32:42,679
Speaker 1: working for the gun manufacturer kind of living a pretty

1601
01:32:42,680 --> 01:32:45,760
Speaker 1: awesome life just roaming the world hunting and shooting. That's

1602
01:32:45,800 --> 01:32:47,160
Speaker 1: kind of what my job was. So no one can

1603
01:32:47,200 --> 01:32:48,560
Speaker 1: really argue with that. I know you guys don't know

1604
01:32:48,600 --> 01:32:51,479
Speaker 1: what that's like, but UM, not at all. UM. The

1605
01:32:51,520 --> 01:32:53,439
Speaker 1: governor of Montana came and tapped me on the shoulder

1606
01:32:53,479 --> 01:32:55,160
Speaker 1: and said, hey, I heard you might be good at

1607
01:32:55,200 --> 01:32:57,400
Speaker 1: creating this thing called an office about a recreation, And

1608
01:32:57,400 --> 01:32:58,560
Speaker 1: I said, I don't even know what that is, but

1609
01:32:58,680 --> 01:33:01,559
Speaker 1: sounds amazing. Maybe I would be no problem, no problem,

1610
01:33:01,640 --> 01:33:04,920
Speaker 1: let's figure this out. So Montana was a fourth state

1611
01:33:04,920 --> 01:33:07,559
Speaker 1: to create an offs about de recreation. I started working

1612
01:33:07,600 --> 01:33:13,000
Speaker 1: for the governor in two thousand late SEV. Who are

1613
01:33:13,040 --> 01:33:16,920
Speaker 1: the other three? The very first was Utah UM, followed

1614
01:33:17,040 --> 01:33:21,880
Speaker 1: very quickly by Colorado and Washington. So Montana became number four,

1615
01:33:21,960 --> 01:33:25,000
Speaker 1: quickly followed by Wyoming. Then there were eight of us.

1616
01:33:25,040 --> 01:33:28,160
Speaker 1: The eight of us formed what's called the Confluence Accords UM,

1617
01:33:28,320 --> 01:33:31,200
Speaker 1: and now there are sixteen states to do. What are

1618
01:33:31,240 --> 01:33:33,560
Speaker 1: the offices? Like, what is the sort of purpose of

1619
01:33:33,600 --> 01:33:37,080
Speaker 1: the offices aboutdoor recreation? Yeah, the purpose of the office

1620
01:33:37,080 --> 01:33:41,280
Speaker 1: about the recreation. I think it's the culmination of something

1621
01:33:41,280 --> 01:33:43,760
Speaker 1: that we've all known for a very long time and

1622
01:33:43,800 --> 01:33:47,800
Speaker 1: we've seen for a very long time. UM. As economies

1623
01:33:47,840 --> 01:33:51,400
Speaker 1: grow and change in states, So you know, back at

1624
01:33:51,400 --> 01:33:54,639
Speaker 1: the turn of the century, states like Montana or other states,

1625
01:33:54,840 --> 01:33:57,559
Speaker 1: they discovered like, oh, agriculture is a really important part

1626
01:33:57,560 --> 01:34:01,280
Speaker 1: of our economy, Like this is a big contributor or livestock, right,

1627
01:34:01,360 --> 01:34:04,479
Speaker 1: like UM ranching from like these really important parts of

1628
01:34:04,520 --> 01:34:06,760
Speaker 1: our economy, and so they would form like Department of

1629
01:34:06,800 --> 01:34:13,320
Speaker 1: Agricultures and States and so dedicated to protecting guarding. Yeah,

1630
01:34:13,479 --> 01:34:16,280
Speaker 1: just making sure. So the Office about Derecreation UM in

1631
01:34:16,320 --> 01:34:18,760
Speaker 1: Montana House and the Governor's office, Um, they're all they're

1632
01:34:18,760 --> 01:34:21,400
Speaker 1: all very similar but different in some ways. But it's

1633
01:34:21,479 --> 01:34:26,280
Speaker 1: really formally identifying that outdoor recreation is a very significant

1634
01:34:26,400 --> 01:34:30,000
Speaker 1: part of state and federal the federal economy. Um. And

1635
01:34:30,040 --> 01:34:32,960
Speaker 1: so why don't we have and it has tentacles and

1636
01:34:33,000 --> 01:34:35,720
Speaker 1: fingers and like everything, and so why don't we have

1637
01:34:35,920 --> 01:34:39,200
Speaker 1: one person that's their job to look through everything through

1638
01:34:39,240 --> 01:34:44,200
Speaker 1: that lens about de recreation and identify what is helping

1639
01:34:44,200 --> 01:34:47,160
Speaker 1: this economy, what is hindering this economy? Um? What are

1640
01:34:47,200 --> 01:34:49,240
Speaker 1: the unique facets of this economy that we need to

1641
01:34:49,240 --> 01:34:51,680
Speaker 1: look at in a different way? Um. So really, I

1642
01:34:51,680 --> 01:34:53,960
Speaker 1: mean this is conversation and work that's been going on

1643
01:34:54,040 --> 01:34:56,759
Speaker 1: for years and years, but it's just slowly manifested itself

1644
01:34:56,760 --> 01:35:00,760
Speaker 1: into this UM. So Yeah, it's it's very interesting, it's

1645
01:35:00,840 --> 01:35:04,920
Speaker 1: very positive, it's it's great. And then the then the

1646
01:35:04,920 --> 01:35:06,840
Speaker 1: winds of change, right, So you came in under a

1647
01:35:06,880 --> 01:35:10,840
Speaker 1: governor he turned out, Yeah, Yeah, I worked for Governor Bullock. Um,

1648
01:35:10,840 --> 01:35:14,080
Speaker 1: he was a two term governor. He's done and will

1649
01:35:14,120 --> 01:35:16,160
Speaker 1: the office? Will the office continue to run on a

1650
01:35:16,200 --> 01:35:19,040
Speaker 1: different leadership. It's still remains to be seen. It's a

1651
01:35:19,120 --> 01:35:21,320
Speaker 1: permanent office that's been created and it's up to the

1652
01:35:21,320 --> 01:35:23,360
Speaker 1: new governor if they want to appoint somebody. Have they

1653
01:35:23,360 --> 01:35:25,720
Speaker 1: staffed They haven't staffed it. They haven't staffed quite a

1654
01:35:25,720 --> 01:35:29,320
Speaker 1: few things. Is there an argument? Uh? Is there an

1655
01:35:29,400 --> 01:35:33,080
Speaker 1: argument for that? Is it plausible that they would be

1656
01:35:33,120 --> 01:35:36,280
Speaker 1: like that? That didn't need to happen in aw'll go away? Um?

1657
01:35:36,800 --> 01:35:39,920
Speaker 1: Are Anything's possible for sure. But you're not involved in

1658
01:35:39,920 --> 01:35:42,240
Speaker 1: that conversation. Oh no, not involved in it at all.

1659
01:35:42,320 --> 01:35:44,880
Speaker 1: But you know it's Um, it would be unfortunate. You

1660
01:35:44,920 --> 01:35:48,240
Speaker 1: know from Montana, you know a very significant portion of

1661
01:35:48,280 --> 01:35:51,040
Speaker 1: our state's economy is linked to out to recreation. We

1662
01:35:51,120 --> 01:35:54,080
Speaker 1: have these amazing numbers. And two sixteen, the Wreck Act

1663
01:35:54,160 --> 01:35:56,960
Speaker 1: was passed and that was actually the federal government like

1664
01:35:57,040 --> 01:35:59,840
Speaker 1: identifying that, like wow, the recreation economy is like really,

1665
01:36:00,680 --> 01:36:03,280
Speaker 1: like how big is it? And so they passed the

1666
01:36:03,280 --> 01:36:05,879
Speaker 1: Wreck Act and that basically mandated the Bureau of Economic

1667
01:36:05,920 --> 01:36:10,559
Speaker 1: Analysis Analysis to establish a sub account like a prototype

1668
01:36:10,600 --> 01:36:15,479
Speaker 1: sub account. UM. Really you know, identifying you know, what

1669
01:36:15,640 --> 01:36:18,519
Speaker 1: does outdore creation contribute to the economy because like you

1670
01:36:18,560 --> 01:36:19,800
Speaker 1: and I, like we all sit in this room and

1671
01:36:19,800 --> 01:36:22,400
Speaker 1: we're like, oh my god, outdoor recreation is what we do.

1672
01:36:22,439 --> 01:36:24,679
Speaker 1: It's our way of life. It makes us feel good,

1673
01:36:24,720 --> 01:36:27,719
Speaker 1: it makes us feel alive, We're healthy, we're happy. Um,

1674
01:36:27,840 --> 01:36:30,320
Speaker 1: we all make our living around this. Like I was

1675
01:36:30,360 --> 01:36:31,960
Speaker 1: a fishing guide for a while, I was in the

1676
01:36:31,960 --> 01:36:34,839
Speaker 1: ski industry for a while, I was in the gun industry.

1677
01:36:34,880 --> 01:36:36,880
Speaker 1: Like that's how I have made my livelihood as through

1678
01:36:36,880 --> 01:36:39,599
Speaker 1: record recreation. So clearly it has a second on my impact.

1679
01:36:39,920 --> 01:36:42,360
Speaker 1: So actually there are three, um I believe economic firms

1680
01:36:42,400 --> 01:36:44,320
Speaker 1: that worked on them. One is here in Bozeman. It's

1681
01:36:44,320 --> 01:36:48,280
Speaker 1: called Headwaters Economics. They consulted with the e A. They

1682
01:36:48,320 --> 01:36:51,920
Speaker 1: created UM the very first economic numbers in the US

1683
01:36:52,080 --> 01:36:55,479
Speaker 1: related to our g d P as it relates to recreation. UM.

1684
01:36:55,520 --> 01:36:58,040
Speaker 1: Their first numbers were believe it was two point two

1685
01:36:58,080 --> 01:37:01,160
Speaker 1: percent of the U S g d P is contributed

1686
01:37:01,160 --> 01:37:05,320
Speaker 1: to outdoor recreation. And that's everything, that's the spectrum, that's

1687
01:37:05,360 --> 01:37:09,040
Speaker 1: the that's the barefoot trial, tree walk in, Sleeping under

1688
01:37:09,080 --> 01:37:12,320
Speaker 1: the Stars, and going out and killing stuff. Right, that's

1689
01:37:12,360 --> 01:37:14,280
Speaker 1: the whole rainbow of us. But man, I've seen some

1690
01:37:14,400 --> 01:37:17,000
Speaker 1: too that that have the that capture these huge numbers,

1691
01:37:17,040 --> 01:37:23,120
Speaker 1: and you look and they're counting like Ebagos. Absolutely that's

1692
01:37:23,120 --> 01:37:28,880
Speaker 1: part of this. Yeah, it's motorized, it's non motorized. I'm

1693
01:37:28,920 --> 01:37:31,760
Speaker 1: a super outdoors for some people. What I'm saying it

1694
01:37:31,840 --> 01:37:33,960
Speaker 1: like it catches a lot of stuff. It does. It

1695
01:37:34,000 --> 01:37:36,599
Speaker 1: catches a lot of stuff. Um, And so to put

1696
01:37:36,680 --> 01:37:39,560
Speaker 1: into perspective, two, that's twice the size of the U. S.

1697
01:37:39,560 --> 01:37:41,960
Speaker 1: Automotive industry. That's twice the size of the U. S.

1698
01:37:42,000 --> 01:37:45,920
Speaker 1: Pharmaceutical industry. So it's a huge, you know, portion of

1699
01:37:45,920 --> 01:37:48,679
Speaker 1: our economy. The part that I think is really interesting

1700
01:37:48,800 --> 01:37:51,000
Speaker 1: is and I'm gonna botch this one. The numbers are

1701
01:37:51,000 --> 01:37:53,760
Speaker 1: not quite right, but I believe there's like it's like

1702
01:37:53,880 --> 01:37:56,560
Speaker 1: seventy two. Like if you look at g d P,

1703
01:37:56,800 --> 01:37:59,760
Speaker 1: there's like seventy two categories of like basement GDP. And

1704
01:37:59,760 --> 01:38:03,559
Speaker 1: when somebody establishes a sub account, they actually say, okay,

1705
01:38:03,600 --> 01:38:07,320
Speaker 1: like what parts of this is contributed? Um? But outdoor

1706
01:38:07,320 --> 01:38:10,519
Speaker 1: recreation touches like someone godly number. Like I think it's

1707
01:38:10,560 --> 01:38:15,600
Speaker 1: like sixty eight of seventy two. Like basic US you

1708
01:38:15,640 --> 01:38:19,719
Speaker 1: know GDP functions, So recreation like has its its fingers

1709
01:38:19,720 --> 01:38:22,600
Speaker 1: and everything. Um, do you think there will ever be

1710
01:38:22,640 --> 01:38:26,160
Speaker 1: a Secretary of Recreation in the US. So here's the

1711
01:38:26,280 --> 01:38:28,320
Speaker 1: but here's the funny part, is like that I've now

1712
01:38:28,320 --> 01:38:31,120
Speaker 1: worked with some really remarkable people in d C and um,

1713
01:38:31,200 --> 01:38:33,040
Speaker 1: you know with the Park Service and the BLM and

1714
01:38:33,080 --> 01:38:35,720
Speaker 1: the four Service and just so many great people. Uh.

1715
01:38:35,760 --> 01:38:37,800
Speaker 1: There was a period of time where we actually had

1716
01:38:37,840 --> 01:38:41,120
Speaker 1: an office about de recreation federally for a brief period

1717
01:38:41,160 --> 01:38:44,400
Speaker 1: of time. UM, And I wonder who, I don't know,

1718
01:38:44,439 --> 01:38:45,960
Speaker 1: we gotta go look at it. But I remember he

1719
01:38:46,040 --> 01:38:47,840
Speaker 1: was He was like oo back in the day we

1720
01:38:47,880 --> 01:38:49,479
Speaker 1: had this, And I was like what I didn't know

1721
01:38:49,520 --> 01:38:53,160
Speaker 1: about that? Um. So yeah, it's it's a it's really interesting.

1722
01:38:53,200 --> 01:38:56,679
Speaker 1: It's it's great. Uh. Where were you born? Was born

1723
01:38:56,680 --> 01:39:00,000
Speaker 1: a white Fish, Montana? So that was your tie to Um?

1724
01:39:00,040 --> 01:39:03,479
Speaker 1: Is that were Kimberg's based No, the sales office, there's

1725
01:39:03,479 --> 01:39:06,920
Speaker 1: part of it in um kalispell Yeah, I so I Um,

1726
01:39:07,000 --> 01:39:09,880
Speaker 1: I'm a Montana girl. UM. I have been told I'm

1727
01:39:09,920 --> 01:39:11,840
Speaker 1: embedded like a tick. And I guess I'm going to

1728
01:39:11,920 --> 01:39:15,120
Speaker 1: own it. I just I'm owning it my entire adult career.

1729
01:39:15,160 --> 01:39:16,960
Speaker 1: I've traveled the world and every time I come back

1730
01:39:17,000 --> 01:39:18,280
Speaker 1: to white Fish, I'm like, and I'll live in the

1731
01:39:18,280 --> 01:39:21,680
Speaker 1: best spot you know. So, um, yeah, I actually my

1732
01:39:21,720 --> 01:39:23,640
Speaker 1: parents were born there, My grandparents were born there. I

1733
01:39:23,680 --> 01:39:25,680
Speaker 1: was born there. I'm finally held stay there and raise

1734
01:39:25,760 --> 01:39:28,360
Speaker 1: my boys there. It's a great place to be. I

1735
01:39:28,360 --> 01:39:33,439
Speaker 1: have two boys. Um, they're twelve and fourteen. Do you, um,

1736
01:39:33,520 --> 01:39:36,720
Speaker 1: when you were a little did you did you like,

1737
01:39:36,760 --> 01:39:39,479
Speaker 1: did you like think about and identify that there's an

1738
01:39:39,479 --> 01:39:42,080
Speaker 1: outdoor industry in which you would work or was it

1739
01:39:42,160 --> 01:39:44,360
Speaker 1: just that that's what life was and it didn't seem

1740
01:39:44,439 --> 01:39:46,639
Speaker 1: like a it didn't seem like a like a thing

1741
01:39:46,680 --> 01:39:48,800
Speaker 1: you would move into. You just went into it. So

1742
01:39:49,160 --> 01:39:50,519
Speaker 1: I don't know if we were I don't know if

1743
01:39:50,520 --> 01:39:53,759
Speaker 1: it's classified like that, but yeah, very actually apparent because

1744
01:39:54,560 --> 01:39:56,080
Speaker 1: I grew up my dad was a hunting and fishing

1745
01:39:56,080 --> 01:39:58,720
Speaker 1: guide and a knife maker, and so literally I spent

1746
01:39:58,800 --> 01:40:01,880
Speaker 1: my summer breaks about ornament on his on a whitewater

1747
01:40:02,040 --> 01:40:04,000
Speaker 1: raft going down the middle fork of the Flathead right

1748
01:40:04,040 --> 01:40:06,519
Speaker 1: like that was he took me to work with him. Um,

1749
01:40:06,560 --> 01:40:08,240
Speaker 1: I would go on fishing trips with him. I would

1750
01:40:08,280 --> 01:40:10,160
Speaker 1: do seven day packing trips with him, Like that's how

1751
01:40:10,160 --> 01:40:12,559
Speaker 1: I spent my summers. And so my dad was in

1752
01:40:13,000 --> 01:40:15,360
Speaker 1: the wreck business right like he was a guide and

1753
01:40:15,479 --> 01:40:17,400
Speaker 1: he knew all of this and something that I look

1754
01:40:17,479 --> 01:40:21,640
Speaker 1: back on, um, you know, because I was exposed to

1755
01:40:21,880 --> 01:40:25,160
Speaker 1: so many people coming to experience what I lived like

1756
01:40:25,200 --> 01:40:27,519
Speaker 1: it was my every day and like there are people

1757
01:40:27,520 --> 01:40:30,280
Speaker 1: that are saving years and they're coming and having experience

1758
01:40:30,360 --> 01:40:33,840
Speaker 1: like a once in a lifetime experience that's literally changing

1759
01:40:34,080 --> 01:40:37,400
Speaker 1: their being. It's changing their thought patterns. And I didn't

1760
01:40:37,479 --> 01:40:40,160
Speaker 1: have the context to put that in, but I watched it, right,

1761
01:40:40,240 --> 01:40:44,000
Speaker 1: I would watch these people just like lose their minds

1762
01:40:44,200 --> 01:40:46,880
Speaker 1: and just you know, see everything and like the but

1763
01:40:47,000 --> 01:40:50,320
Speaker 1: the water, like I can see the bottom like how

1764
01:40:50,439 --> 01:40:52,599
Speaker 1: you know, like it's so deep? You know. My dad

1765
01:40:52,600 --> 01:40:54,439
Speaker 1: would crack wise jokes like they're like how do you

1766
01:40:54,640 --> 01:40:56,479
Speaker 1: water would be like just tow to a duck, you know,

1767
01:40:56,560 --> 01:40:59,280
Speaker 1: like a you know, to guide you know thing. But

1768
01:40:59,520 --> 01:41:01,759
Speaker 1: UM didn't know. Like the thing is that I understood

1769
01:41:01,800 --> 01:41:04,280
Speaker 1: is that I didn't know where they came from and

1770
01:41:04,320 --> 01:41:07,639
Speaker 1: I didn't know what they're like life was like. But

1771
01:41:07,720 --> 01:41:10,960
Speaker 1: clearly I have it way better than they do because

1772
01:41:11,000 --> 01:41:14,599
Speaker 1: they were dying over what I just called my everyday life.

1773
01:41:15,080 --> 01:41:17,360
Speaker 1: And obviously, as I grew older, like I definitely be

1774
01:41:17,520 --> 01:41:19,920
Speaker 1: you know, I started to put that into context. Um

1775
01:41:19,960 --> 01:41:21,960
Speaker 1: you know, I started working in fly shops before I

1776
01:41:22,000 --> 01:41:24,840
Speaker 1: was old enough to pull a paycheck in exchange for

1777
01:41:25,160 --> 01:41:28,400
Speaker 1: fly tying material and fly rods. I was like my

1778
01:41:28,560 --> 01:41:30,599
Speaker 1: sport that I did. I was a competitive rifle shooter.

1779
01:41:30,760 --> 01:41:32,800
Speaker 1: Like I didn't. He's like, you're tall, You're a big girl.

1780
01:41:32,840 --> 01:41:34,160
Speaker 1: You must be a basketball player. And I'm like, I

1781
01:41:34,200 --> 01:41:35,840
Speaker 1: can't dribble ball to save my life. But it has

1782
01:41:35,880 --> 01:41:38,240
Speaker 1: it has a trigger is a totally different story. And

1783
01:41:38,240 --> 01:41:40,800
Speaker 1: so as a competitive rifle shooter, um you know it,

1784
01:41:40,920 --> 01:41:43,639
Speaker 1: thought about leaving, you know to go to school. Wasn't interested.

1785
01:41:43,640 --> 01:41:45,040
Speaker 1: I wanted to stay in Montana and you never see

1786
01:41:45,040 --> 01:41:48,360
Speaker 1: Montana Resource conservation is my degree. I chalked it up

1787
01:41:48,360 --> 01:41:51,479
Speaker 1: to being an over educated fly fisherman because they were like, okay,

1788
01:41:51,520 --> 01:41:53,479
Speaker 1: so to get a job, you got to go to

1789
01:41:53,479 --> 01:41:55,880
Speaker 1: Oklahoma or Nebraska and like work on mud puddles. And

1790
01:41:55,880 --> 01:41:58,599
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm not sign up for this. I'm

1791
01:41:58,680 --> 01:42:01,879
Speaker 1: staying in Montana. And so went into the organic produce industry,

1792
01:42:02,280 --> 01:42:04,680
Speaker 1: like randomly because I could stay there. So I was

1793
01:42:04,720 --> 01:42:08,240
Speaker 1: actually like brokering produce from field to table on the

1794
01:42:08,320 --> 01:42:11,600
Speaker 1: national market at the age of like twenty two. And

1795
01:42:11,640 --> 01:42:13,080
Speaker 1: then I got a knock on the door and they

1796
01:42:13,080 --> 01:42:15,439
Speaker 1: were like, hey, we heard you sell stuff, and you're

1797
01:42:15,439 --> 01:42:17,519
Speaker 1: from Whitefish and you can ski. We've got a ski

1798
01:42:17,560 --> 01:42:19,200
Speaker 1: and ski out office. You could be a regional ski

1799
01:42:19,360 --> 01:42:22,280
Speaker 1: you know, ski salesperson for Big Mountain Ski resort. I

1800
01:42:22,360 --> 01:42:23,760
Speaker 1: was like, you want to pay me more money to

1801
01:42:23,800 --> 01:42:25,559
Speaker 1: have a ski and ski out office, and I'm going

1802
01:42:25,600 --> 01:42:30,320
Speaker 1: to travel the US partying, golfing, skiing and drinking and

1803
01:42:30,360 --> 01:42:33,720
Speaker 1: convincing people to come ski and totally do that. I

1804
01:42:33,880 --> 01:42:40,400
Speaker 1: got this. I totally golf. Yeah, does not look like

1805
01:42:42,200 --> 01:42:44,120
Speaker 1: he just he doesn't look like But I golf with

1806
01:42:44,160 --> 01:42:46,160
Speaker 1: a lot of guys that look like you. So the

1807
01:42:46,200 --> 01:42:48,519
Speaker 1: golf is in this room, yea. And I got that

1808
01:42:48,720 --> 01:42:53,639
Speaker 1: tree tattoo and stuff. You're not gonna let you golf anymore. Drink.

1809
01:42:53,840 --> 01:42:55,800
Speaker 1: I show up to drink, and then I golf while

1810
01:42:55,800 --> 01:42:59,160
Speaker 1: I'm there. Yeah, so that's great. On the golf course,

1811
01:42:59,200 --> 01:43:02,040
Speaker 1: I spent my I spent my twenties like just like

1812
01:43:02,400 --> 01:43:05,920
Speaker 1: in the ski industry, and just like having a great life,

1813
01:43:06,360 --> 01:43:10,439
Speaker 1: was married, UM had kids, and UM decided I'd stay

1814
01:43:10,439 --> 01:43:13,280
Speaker 1: at home, stayed at home and work part time. And

1815
01:43:13,320 --> 01:43:14,960
Speaker 1: then I was like, Okay, I'm gonna go back into

1816
01:43:15,000 --> 01:43:16,960
Speaker 1: like the work, you know, work, Like what do I

1817
01:43:17,000 --> 01:43:18,320
Speaker 1: want to do when I grow up? And I was

1818
01:43:18,840 --> 01:43:21,800
Speaker 1: at a rocky Mountinolk Foundation banquet and I was with

1819
01:43:21,840 --> 01:43:24,439
Speaker 1: my cousins and I was pretty drunk, and I turned around.

1820
01:43:24,439 --> 01:43:27,480
Speaker 1: I saw my buddies have worked for Kimber. I was like, oh, Kimber,

1821
01:43:27,760 --> 01:43:31,479
Speaker 1: I got a Kimber. They still guns. I love guns.

1822
01:43:32,120 --> 01:43:35,479
Speaker 1: I could sell guns. So I just inquired and ended

1823
01:43:35,520 --> 01:43:37,639
Speaker 1: up getting hired on and worked for Kimber for eight years.

1824
01:43:37,680 --> 01:43:41,360
Speaker 1: And now here I am, um, is your dad's a

1825
01:43:41,360 --> 01:43:43,679
Speaker 1: little guide? Is he still alive? He is still alive.

1826
01:43:43,800 --> 01:43:47,400
Speaker 1: He is not guiding um he Um. He's a knife maker.

1827
01:43:47,439 --> 01:43:50,160
Speaker 1: So my great grandfather started a knife making business called

1828
01:43:50,160 --> 01:43:52,960
Speaker 1: Track Knives that turned into Schmidt Knives. And so my

1829
01:43:53,040 --> 01:43:55,439
Speaker 1: dad actually has always been a knife maker, but then

1830
01:43:55,439 --> 01:43:57,280
Speaker 1: with just guide on the side, stopped doing that. He

1831
01:43:57,320 --> 01:44:00,639
Speaker 1: actually was in blacksmith thing. He's done amazing eximithing work,

1832
01:44:00,680 --> 01:44:04,080
Speaker 1: but he no longer guides is he is your old man.

1833
01:44:04,720 --> 01:44:10,200
Speaker 1: Um and like if you imagine your grandfather and stuff.

1834
01:44:10,200 --> 01:44:14,320
Speaker 1: Are they sympathetic to the cause of b h A

1835
01:44:14,400 --> 01:44:19,439
Speaker 1: or they have been like reflexively not love love. My

1836
01:44:19,520 --> 01:44:22,320
Speaker 1: dad loves b h A, loves it, loves it. Um,

1837
01:44:22,320 --> 01:44:24,559
Speaker 1: he's you know, he's even I've helped him write op

1838
01:44:24,680 --> 01:44:28,120
Speaker 1: eds in support of like wild and scenic rivers. And Um,

1839
01:44:28,200 --> 01:44:30,960
Speaker 1: my grandfather actually was super tight with my grandfather. He

1840
01:44:31,040 --> 01:44:33,479
Speaker 1: and I. He was my best fishing buddy and I'm

1841
01:44:33,520 --> 01:44:36,719
Speaker 1: so thankful to have had all those years fishing with him. Um.

1842
01:44:36,760 --> 01:44:40,519
Speaker 1: But he uh no, it's it's very like they're they're

1843
01:44:41,160 --> 01:44:44,200
Speaker 1: very like they're b h people. For sure, they didn't

1844
01:44:44,200 --> 01:44:46,439
Speaker 1: have that. They didn't. Um, I mean you're telling me

1845
01:44:46,479 --> 01:44:49,639
Speaker 1: they didn't. But uh, even like dating back that far,

1846
01:44:49,760 --> 01:44:53,800
Speaker 1: they didn't have a sort of a reflexive like not

1847
01:44:53,920 --> 01:45:00,320
Speaker 1: really liking um strong public lands advocacy or restrict actions

1848
01:45:00,320 --> 01:45:03,879
Speaker 1: on public lands that might be like tinder industry. Well,

1849
01:45:04,080 --> 01:45:07,960
Speaker 1: so and I come from so, I come from extractive industry.

1850
01:45:08,040 --> 01:45:11,880
Speaker 1: So my grandfather was in the timber industry for sixty years. Um,

1851
01:45:11,920 --> 01:45:14,599
Speaker 1: and so Q was involved in you know, like I mean,

1852
01:45:14,680 --> 01:45:16,680
Speaker 1: like seriously like the logging of the sixties and the

1853
01:45:16,680 --> 01:45:19,320
Speaker 1: seventies and the eighties, and in Whitefish, white Fish was

1854
01:45:19,360 --> 01:45:21,880
Speaker 1: a timber town. The original name of Whitefish was Stumptown

1855
01:45:22,400 --> 01:45:25,920
Speaker 1: because it was clear cut and the railroads came in.

1856
01:45:26,000 --> 01:45:29,920
Speaker 1: And so Whitefish is this like literally this quintessential snapshot

1857
01:45:30,280 --> 01:45:32,880
Speaker 1: of the evolution of the West and the economy and

1858
01:45:32,920 --> 01:45:35,880
Speaker 1: how things are shifting. And Whitefish really kind of I

1859
01:45:35,920 --> 01:45:38,680
Speaker 1: think was like a little bit of head you know,

1860
01:45:38,720 --> 01:45:40,760
Speaker 1: like one of the first towns to go through that.

1861
01:45:41,160 --> 01:45:44,799
Speaker 1: But literally, my my generations of my family, like paint

1862
01:45:44,840 --> 01:45:48,040
Speaker 1: that picture. My grandfather was in banking and mining right

1863
01:45:48,160 --> 01:45:51,320
Speaker 1: with the other grandfather. Um. And so what happened though,

1864
01:45:51,360 --> 01:45:53,799
Speaker 1: is that obviously in the eighties, I mean like timber

1865
01:45:53,840 --> 01:45:56,559
Speaker 1: harvests and everything, like you know, it was there were

1866
01:45:56,680 --> 01:45:58,920
Speaker 1: yellow signs everywhere that was like this this family is

1867
01:45:58,960 --> 01:46:01,439
Speaker 1: supported by the timber industry. Right, Like when the timber

1868
01:46:01,439 --> 01:46:04,639
Speaker 1: industry was crashing, it was putting so many people out

1869
01:46:04,640 --> 01:46:06,479
Speaker 1: of work, continued to put people out of work through

1870
01:46:06,520 --> 01:46:09,360
Speaker 1: the two thousand's, right, like all the mills were shutting down. Um.

1871
01:46:09,360 --> 01:46:11,519
Speaker 1: But what was happening is like at the same time

1872
01:46:11,560 --> 01:46:14,240
Speaker 1: that like the timber industry and everything started to go down.

1873
01:46:14,560 --> 01:46:17,280
Speaker 1: Whitefish is this amazing little community with this lake that's

1874
01:46:17,280 --> 01:46:19,600
Speaker 1: really fun to like boate on. And then there was

1875
01:46:19,640 --> 01:46:21,360
Speaker 1: a bunch of people in town that thought this like

1876
01:46:21,439 --> 01:46:23,400
Speaker 1: big bald mountain up on top, you know, out of

1877
01:46:23,400 --> 01:46:25,080
Speaker 1: town would be kind of fun to like go downhill

1878
01:46:25,160 --> 01:46:27,960
Speaker 1: on and those ski things like you know back in

1879
01:46:27,960 --> 01:46:29,479
Speaker 1: the day, like my other grandfather was one of the

1880
01:46:29,479 --> 01:46:33,160
Speaker 1: first people to pioneer big mountain ski resort um, which, um,

1881
01:46:33,240 --> 01:46:36,480
Speaker 1: you know it's it's so you saw this like gradual

1882
01:46:36,640 --> 01:46:41,480
Speaker 1: increase of like this recreation opportunity as the timber industry

1883
01:46:41,880 --> 01:46:45,760
Speaker 1: dove and that crossover period was in my life and

1884
01:46:45,760 --> 01:46:48,880
Speaker 1: that was a really hard time. Um. And now you

1885
01:46:48,880 --> 01:46:52,639
Speaker 1: you do see that recreation um, you know, resort kind

1886
01:46:52,640 --> 01:46:57,240
Speaker 1: of community growing and evolving into then it becomes amenity based,

1887
01:46:57,240 --> 01:46:59,240
Speaker 1: and then it becomes and it starts pulling in industry.

1888
01:46:59,800 --> 01:47:02,680
Speaker 1: So so you guys, your family would be like, um,

1889
01:47:03,040 --> 01:47:06,479
Speaker 1: it's almost like this like Larry McMurtry novel about the

1890
01:47:07,920 --> 01:47:10,400
Speaker 1: like Lonesome Dove Man. Okay, I was thinking, like the

1891
01:47:10,479 --> 01:47:13,880
Speaker 1: last picture show, all my friends are going to be

1892
01:47:13,880 --> 01:47:16,519
Speaker 1: on nwees, Oh is it all my friends are gonna

1893
01:47:16,520 --> 01:47:19,840
Speaker 1: be strangers. Anyways, he writes about the transformation of the

1894
01:47:19,880 --> 01:47:24,880
Speaker 1: American West. So if you capture like generationally loggers, miners,

1895
01:47:25,600 --> 01:47:29,920
Speaker 1: and then like big game guides and then outdoor recreation,

1896
01:47:30,040 --> 01:47:33,120
Speaker 1: it's like just the evolution. So the flat the Old

1897
01:47:33,120 --> 01:47:34,840
Speaker 1: West of the New West. Man when you talked about

1898
01:47:34,840 --> 01:47:38,200
Speaker 1: like okay, so like my my grandparents, my grandparents, my father,

1899
01:47:38,280 --> 01:47:40,639
Speaker 1: like do they find like this like resentful like nature

1900
01:47:40,680 --> 01:47:43,759
Speaker 1: of more protection on lands And it's like, actually that area,

1901
01:47:44,000 --> 01:47:45,639
Speaker 1: the flat of River system was one of the first

1902
01:47:45,640 --> 01:47:48,360
Speaker 1: world and senior river systems in the country. And as

1903
01:47:48,400 --> 01:47:50,240
Speaker 1: a result, like they were the first ones to see

1904
01:47:50,240 --> 01:47:54,920
Speaker 1: it laid out, it had zero impact on anything anyone did.

1905
01:47:55,720 --> 01:47:59,160
Speaker 1: It only improved the way of life and improved everybody's

1906
01:47:59,560 --> 01:48:03,840
Speaker 1: you know, just lifestyle and so yeah, like so it's

1907
01:48:03,920 --> 01:48:07,439
Speaker 1: totally different, you know up there. Every time, you know,

1908
01:48:07,840 --> 01:48:12,360
Speaker 1: more protections established, like the more the community thrives and

1909
01:48:12,439 --> 01:48:14,960
Speaker 1: the better people are doing. Um, there's you know, the

1910
01:48:15,000 --> 01:48:17,760
Speaker 1: white Fish Legacy Partners have started the Whitefish Trail System,

1911
01:48:17,800 --> 01:48:20,879
Speaker 1: and the Whitfish Trail System is this like amazing network

1912
01:48:20,920 --> 01:48:23,240
Speaker 1: of trails, multiple use trails that are in and around

1913
01:48:23,240 --> 01:48:28,040
Speaker 1: Whitefish and It was started by residents for residents because

1914
01:48:28,080 --> 01:48:31,640
Speaker 1: they were illegally poaching trails on state timberlands and that

1915
01:48:31,680 --> 01:48:33,960
Speaker 1: timberland was going to be sold off into development. There

1916
01:48:34,000 --> 01:48:36,240
Speaker 1: was a bunch of like bikers that were like, no,

1917
01:48:36,400 --> 01:48:39,160
Speaker 1: this is crap, like you can't do that. I was like, yeah,

1918
01:48:39,200 --> 01:48:41,519
Speaker 1: actually we can. And so now we have this amazing

1919
01:48:41,520 --> 01:48:44,839
Speaker 1: trail system that contributes like six point three million dollars

1920
01:48:44,840 --> 01:48:47,160
Speaker 1: to the Whitefish economy every year just by its existence,

1921
01:48:47,840 --> 01:48:52,240
Speaker 1: um and so, yeah, it's been a very proactive community,

1922
01:48:52,360 --> 01:48:56,920
Speaker 1: very aggressively proactive community with surrounding land managers and um

1923
01:48:56,960 --> 01:49:09,200
Speaker 1: just evolving what it is to live there. This is

1924
01:49:09,240 --> 01:49:11,559
Speaker 1: a huge deal from Montana. Montana is way behind the

1925
01:49:11,600 --> 01:49:13,760
Speaker 1: eight ball in funding recreation. And then we could go

1926
01:49:13,800 --> 01:49:17,040
Speaker 1: off on tangents talking about who really funds recreation, who

1927
01:49:17,120 --> 01:49:21,000
Speaker 1: funds our infrastructure? Um and so in Montana we've been

1928
01:49:21,160 --> 01:49:24,320
Speaker 1: very behind. We don't have any state funding mechanisms of

1929
01:49:24,360 --> 01:49:27,760
Speaker 1: significance to fund trail maintenance and expand all this kind

1930
01:49:27,760 --> 01:49:30,280
Speaker 1: of stuff. Whereas states like Colorado it's called go co.

1931
01:49:30,880 --> 01:49:34,720
Speaker 1: They it's literally like, isn't like like one tenth of

1932
01:49:34,800 --> 01:49:38,919
Speaker 1: one percent of lottery dollars in Colorado equals four hundred

1933
01:49:39,080 --> 01:49:43,480
Speaker 1: million dollars a year to go towards recreation and conservation.

1934
01:49:44,080 --> 01:49:46,760
Speaker 1: And so we've not And there's there was a big

1935
01:49:46,760 --> 01:49:48,120
Speaker 1: there's a big paper that was done I think in

1936
01:49:48,160 --> 01:49:50,960
Speaker 1: like two thousand and sixteen, and it was statewide funding

1937
01:49:51,040 --> 01:49:54,320
Speaker 1: funding mechanisms for outdoor recreation and that the array of

1938
01:49:54,320 --> 01:49:56,879
Speaker 1: different ways that states will fund it. Um and Montana

1939
01:49:56,960 --> 01:50:01,040
Speaker 1: literally had virtually no a no fund. So if you

1940
01:50:01,160 --> 01:50:03,080
Speaker 1: come up with a oh my god, this is a

1941
01:50:03,120 --> 01:50:06,479
Speaker 1: brand new tax, you know resource like, how often does

1942
01:50:06,520 --> 01:50:08,920
Speaker 1: something new come along that you can tax? Right, So

1943
01:50:08,960 --> 01:50:11,080
Speaker 1: you've got this new tax and that's why everybody's like,

1944
01:50:11,560 --> 01:50:14,360
Speaker 1: we want the money, right. And it's a great opportunity

1945
01:50:14,400 --> 01:50:17,000
Speaker 1: though for us to you know, figure out a way

1946
01:50:17,040 --> 01:50:20,280
Speaker 1: to start investing in our recreation infrastructure. Now when you

1947
01:50:20,320 --> 01:50:24,080
Speaker 1: say when you say outdoor recreation, I gather that you

1948
01:50:24,120 --> 01:50:28,240
Speaker 1: picture a big umbrella. There's a very big umbrella. Um,

1949
01:50:29,040 --> 01:50:31,320
Speaker 1: you're not just talk about like you think about our

1950
01:50:31,360 --> 01:50:35,519
Speaker 1: recreation beyond hunting and angling. Yes, But now in your

1951
01:50:35,720 --> 01:50:37,720
Speaker 1: in your new situation at b h A, you've got

1952
01:50:37,720 --> 01:50:41,120
Speaker 1: to kind of refocus, right. Um, Well, you guys aren't

1953
01:50:41,320 --> 01:50:44,400
Speaker 1: like b H a isn't beholding of the ski community. No, no, no, exactly.

1954
01:50:45,080 --> 01:50:46,720
Speaker 1: They do appreciate the fact that I come with such

1955
01:50:46,720 --> 01:50:50,240
Speaker 1: a broad background and understanding. Um. I also, you know,

1956
01:50:50,360 --> 01:50:52,280
Speaker 1: definitely on the scene when I was an office about

1957
01:50:52,320 --> 01:50:55,439
Speaker 1: direct you know, director I was, I was kind of

1958
01:50:55,479 --> 01:50:58,920
Speaker 1: the hunting and Angling girl, like I was that representative.

1959
01:50:58,960 --> 01:51:01,519
Speaker 1: I was that voice and all of us because you know,

1960
01:51:01,640 --> 01:51:03,960
Speaker 1: quite honestly, when I first came in and there were

1961
01:51:04,000 --> 01:51:05,920
Speaker 1: eight directors and then more and we would be having

1962
01:51:05,960 --> 01:51:09,639
Speaker 1: conferences and we're having discussions, I'm sorry, hunting and angling

1963
01:51:09,720 --> 01:51:12,559
Speaker 1: is not well represented in the broader conversation about the recreation.

1964
01:51:12,600 --> 01:51:15,760
Speaker 1: And that was really really concerning to me. So that's

1965
01:51:15,800 --> 01:51:19,360
Speaker 1: why I made sure to really try and elevate that conversation.

1966
01:51:19,960 --> 01:51:22,040
Speaker 1: You mean, when people would say, from an like from

1967
01:51:22,080 --> 01:51:26,679
Speaker 1: an industry or governmental perspective, outdoor wreck they were biking, skiing, correct,

1968
01:51:27,120 --> 01:51:31,559
Speaker 1: like ari I stuff correct not And so that's why

1969
01:51:31,560 --> 01:51:34,439
Speaker 1: it's constantly bringing it back around. And you know, like

1970
01:51:34,680 --> 01:51:37,720
Speaker 1: I've heard you say non consumptive or consumptive, which is

1971
01:51:37,800 --> 01:51:41,920
Speaker 1: just the most I am. I hate, hate, hate hate

1972
01:51:41,960 --> 01:51:45,599
Speaker 1: that it just got your hiker bikers and you got

1973
01:51:45,600 --> 01:51:50,880
Speaker 1: your hunter fishers exactly well, and we have like different things.

1974
01:51:50,920 --> 01:51:54,519
Speaker 1: But the notion to me that that would instill in

1975
01:51:54,640 --> 01:51:58,360
Speaker 1: someone who likes to hike, the notion that they don't consume,

1976
01:51:58,880 --> 01:52:02,879
Speaker 1: they don't have an impact act. That's terribly dangerous. That's dangerous.

1977
01:52:02,960 --> 01:52:04,680
Speaker 1: Can you break that down a little bit, right? Yeah,

1978
01:52:04,720 --> 01:52:08,439
Speaker 1: first you better explain consumptive and non So traditionally it's

1979
01:52:08,479 --> 01:52:12,080
Speaker 1: like we have non consumptive and consumptive users and hunters

1980
01:52:12,080 --> 01:52:16,320
Speaker 1: and anglers are in Lumpton this consumptive mushroom pickers. No

1981
01:52:16,320 --> 01:52:18,960
Speaker 1: one ever talks about mushroom picks. Right. The foragers, they're

1982
01:52:19,000 --> 01:52:23,400
Speaker 1: consumptive right there. There's they're they're supposedly killing or taking

1983
01:52:23,439 --> 01:52:25,720
Speaker 1: a piece of the resource with them while they're out there. Now,

1984
01:52:25,720 --> 01:52:31,000
Speaker 1: if you're rockhound spencer, you're consumptive. He's not consuming those rocks.

1985
01:52:31,439 --> 01:52:37,559
Speaker 1: So like a detainer, it's this notion that someone is

1986
01:52:37,640 --> 01:52:42,240
Speaker 1: taking from and or having a greater impact. That's what

1987
01:52:42,240 --> 01:52:44,400
Speaker 1: it's meant to be. So well, that's what it's cut. Yeah,

1988
01:52:44,479 --> 01:52:48,680
Speaker 1: consumptive absolutely, Like I always thought there was like a

1989
01:52:48,680 --> 01:52:50,640
Speaker 1: little negative thing there, but I couldn't figure out what

1990
01:52:50,640 --> 01:52:54,520
Speaker 1: it was. And then they're supposedly Supposedly, the non consumptive

1991
01:52:54,640 --> 01:52:57,439
Speaker 1: is someone who is just simply out leaving no trace,

1992
01:52:57,520 --> 01:53:00,839
Speaker 1: walking on a trail for you know, yeah, like like, oh,

1993
01:53:00,920 --> 01:53:04,040
Speaker 1: I'm on the landscape, but I'm causing no disruption. I'm

1994
01:53:04,080 --> 01:53:07,080
Speaker 1: not having an impact on anything. Well, that is complete

1995
01:53:07,080 --> 01:53:10,760
Speaker 1: and utter horseshit. Um. Everybody is having an impact of

1996
01:53:10,920 --> 01:53:14,320
Speaker 1: some level, whether you're motorized, non motorized, like you name it.

1997
01:53:14,400 --> 01:53:16,840
Speaker 1: Everybody plays apart. And that is something where I don't

1998
01:53:16,880 --> 01:53:19,639
Speaker 1: like people, and I never tolerated it. If someone wanted

1999
01:53:19,680 --> 01:53:22,000
Speaker 1: to use those I said, Nope, not allowed to use

2000
01:53:22,040 --> 01:53:24,360
Speaker 1: those words. We're all having an impact. You just need

2001
01:53:24,360 --> 01:53:26,120
Speaker 1: to start understanding what kind of an impact you have.

2002
01:53:26,400 --> 01:53:29,040
Speaker 1: The other the other week, we discussed this this these

2003
01:53:29,040 --> 01:53:31,360
Speaker 1: guidelines that came out, and it was that what does

2004
01:53:31,800 --> 01:53:33,840
Speaker 1: someone had done some research on it. What distance do

2005
01:53:33,840 --> 01:53:36,120
Speaker 1: you impact wildlife? So I listened, I was catching up

2006
01:53:36,120 --> 01:53:39,080
Speaker 1: and I was listening and fifty yards on rodents, fifty

2007
01:53:39,160 --> 01:53:43,400
Speaker 1: yards on chipmunkster likes on you know. And that's the

2008
01:53:43,400 --> 01:53:45,679
Speaker 1: thing is like people think that they're not having an impact,

2009
01:53:45,760 --> 01:53:48,599
Speaker 1: and so that's something too Like, Um, I just feel

2010
01:53:48,600 --> 01:53:51,000
Speaker 1: like the outdoor recreation economy and the people that are

2011
01:53:51,000 --> 01:53:54,599
Speaker 1: in the outdoor recreation economy like we're talking. The reason

2012
01:53:54,600 --> 01:53:56,640
Speaker 1: we're talking about it in an economic sense and the

2013
01:53:56,680 --> 01:53:58,640
Speaker 1: reason we have now a percentage of the g d

2014
01:53:58,720 --> 01:54:01,200
Speaker 1: P and we understand how many tax dollars are going

2015
01:54:01,200 --> 01:54:03,720
Speaker 1: to this, we understand how many jobs are related. The

2016
01:54:03,760 --> 01:54:05,720
Speaker 1: reason we need to do that is because we need

2017
01:54:05,760 --> 01:54:09,200
Speaker 1: to speak the same language that all the other lawmakers,

2018
01:54:09,240 --> 01:54:12,840
Speaker 1: all the other policymakers are listening to. Because every other

2019
01:54:12,880 --> 01:54:15,879
Speaker 1: segment of industry, whether it's you know, like mining industry

2020
01:54:15,920 --> 01:54:19,400
Speaker 1: or you name it, they talk about jobs, tax dollars,

2021
01:54:19,439 --> 01:54:21,640
Speaker 1: like what are we contributing? They're able to do it

2022
01:54:21,680 --> 01:54:25,320
Speaker 1: in really concrete terms. But I would imagine wouldn't like

2023
01:54:25,400 --> 01:54:29,800
Speaker 1: a lot of these outdoor recreation companies would not want

2024
01:54:29,840 --> 01:54:33,400
Speaker 1: to be categorized they were like, they wouldn't want to

2025
01:54:33,400 --> 01:54:36,720
Speaker 1: be categorized as consumptive, say that the mountain biking industry,

2026
01:54:36,920 --> 01:54:40,920
Speaker 1: skiing and well, consumptive, but contributing. That's the thing is

2027
01:54:40,920 --> 01:54:42,680
Speaker 1: what we're trying to do, is we're trying to calculate

2028
01:54:42,720 --> 01:54:46,680
Speaker 1: the contribution of to the economy because that's what everybody

2029
01:54:46,680 --> 01:54:49,600
Speaker 1: else is beating their chest about, what do I contribute?

2030
01:54:49,640 --> 01:54:52,440
Speaker 1: So It's like, okay, what you mean you get priority

2031
01:54:52,560 --> 01:54:55,520
Speaker 1: because you're touting these numbers. Well, now, the outdoor recreation

2032
01:54:55,560 --> 01:54:58,320
Speaker 1: industry has these numbers. And so when you go to

2033
01:54:58,680 --> 01:55:01,560
Speaker 1: a county commissioner, when you go your state legislature. That's

2034
01:55:01,560 --> 01:55:03,760
Speaker 1: why I put together, you know, a state legist, you know,

2035
01:55:03,880 --> 01:55:05,640
Speaker 1: a package on what does the auto recreation of mean

2036
01:55:05,680 --> 01:55:07,920
Speaker 1: in Montana? Or when you go on a national level,

2037
01:55:08,000 --> 01:55:09,880
Speaker 1: it's like no, no, you want to talk about jobs.

2038
01:55:09,960 --> 01:55:11,960
Speaker 1: You want to talk about tax dollars. Oh, I'll show

2039
01:55:11,960 --> 01:55:14,920
Speaker 1: you numbers and I'll show you bigger numbers in employment

2040
01:55:15,080 --> 01:55:17,240
Speaker 1: because there's so many people. And that's the thing about

2041
01:55:17,240 --> 01:55:22,600
Speaker 1: the recreation economy is it's not eleven conglomerates right, like

2042
01:55:23,000 --> 01:55:26,520
Speaker 1: that hold all of the pie and there's you know there,

2043
01:55:26,600 --> 01:55:29,120
Speaker 1: there's eleven entities are pulling all the strings and calling

2044
01:55:29,120 --> 01:55:34,480
Speaker 1: all the shots. This is I mean huge numbers of people,

2045
01:55:34,840 --> 01:55:40,560
Speaker 1: like vast numbers of people. Seven seven to ten of

2046
01:55:40,600 --> 01:55:46,040
Speaker 1: Montanans are employed because of outdorecreation. Like that's a huge percentage.

2047
01:55:46,080 --> 01:55:48,480
Speaker 1: It's to go up and it's only going up. There's

2048
01:55:48,480 --> 01:55:52,520
Speaker 1: four hundred fishing guides in Gallatin County. How many mountain

2049
01:55:52,560 --> 01:55:56,160
Speaker 1: biking guides are there or jobs in mountain biking. I

2050
01:55:56,160 --> 01:55:58,560
Speaker 1: mean there are some. It's growing, I mean, but everything

2051
01:55:58,600 --> 01:56:00,680
Speaker 1: plays its part. And that's retail. Oh, that's you know,

2052
01:56:00,720 --> 01:56:03,520
Speaker 1: that's that's gear and goods, and like that's what I

2053
01:56:03,520 --> 01:56:05,400
Speaker 1: want to look at the big number, you know when

2054
01:56:05,480 --> 01:56:07,760
Speaker 1: you see like it's X billion dollar economy and you

2055
01:56:07,760 --> 01:56:10,480
Speaker 1: look at it. And I used to be and I'd

2056
01:56:10,520 --> 01:56:12,800
Speaker 1: see things rolled in there that I would feel are

2057
01:56:12,840 --> 01:56:18,839
Speaker 1: almost anthema, you know too, what I like like for instance,

2058
01:56:19,040 --> 01:56:21,280
Speaker 1: and I shouldn't say this now because we now have

2059
01:56:21,440 --> 01:56:28,080
Speaker 1: a camper trailer. The man, we've got three little kids,

2060
01:56:28,120 --> 01:56:30,040
Speaker 1: just hard to get everything that is where it's at

2061
01:56:30,160 --> 01:56:32,800
Speaker 1: with kids. A camper is where food is in it,

2062
01:56:32,920 --> 01:56:35,120
Speaker 1: the beds, the sleeping bags are in it. Throw bodies

2063
01:56:35,160 --> 01:56:37,760
Speaker 1: in the truck, and marshmallows are in it. It's like

2064
01:56:37,880 --> 01:56:39,840
Speaker 1: it's just and then when you're done, you throw all

2065
01:56:39,840 --> 01:56:41,520
Speaker 1: that stuff back inside there and drive away, and then

2066
01:56:41,560 --> 01:56:43,320
Speaker 1: you spend the whole week digging through it and stop

2067
01:56:43,360 --> 01:56:46,440
Speaker 1: feeling bad about a long time. I'm saying I'm gonna

2068
01:56:46,480 --> 01:56:48,919
Speaker 1: dog on big window bagos, but I want to clarify

2069
01:56:48,960 --> 01:56:51,520
Speaker 1: that I'm dogging out myself when I look at the

2070
01:56:51,600 --> 01:56:55,880
Speaker 1: numbers like nationally, I look and I'm like, man, they're

2071
01:56:55,880 --> 01:56:58,320
Speaker 1: throwing stuff in there that doesn't belong in there. But

2072
01:56:58,600 --> 01:57:03,960
Speaker 1: let me finish because I'm like that, like that is

2073
01:57:04,000 --> 01:57:08,840
Speaker 1: an outdoorrect that's I'm what that is staying in It's

2074
01:57:08,880 --> 01:57:14,320
Speaker 1: just you. Your sliver aboutdorecreation might be a slimmer. Yeah,

2075
01:57:14,320 --> 01:57:17,720
Speaker 1: it's it's mean. It's mean spirited, but that was That's why.

2076
01:57:17,800 --> 01:57:19,280
Speaker 1: That's what I'm trying to get at the next part

2077
01:57:19,280 --> 01:57:21,360
Speaker 1: of this. I looked at him like, man, they're throwing

2078
01:57:21,360 --> 01:57:23,800
Speaker 1: in some wild ship into those figures. But I'm like,

2079
01:57:23,880 --> 01:57:26,760
Speaker 1: why not, because if you anything you can use to

2080
01:57:26,840 --> 01:57:29,840
Speaker 1: combat the idea when someone says, like the national force

2081
01:57:29,920 --> 01:57:32,800
Speaker 1: it's just sitting there doing nothing, it's nice to be

2082
01:57:32,880 --> 01:57:37,320
Speaker 1: able to say, well, on the contrary, Um, x percent

2083
01:57:37,840 --> 01:57:42,080
Speaker 1: of the economic activity that happens in no surrounding towns

2084
01:57:42,400 --> 01:57:44,440
Speaker 1: is to thank for that. Ex percent of the jobs

2085
01:57:44,440 --> 01:57:46,240
Speaker 1: that happen to those surrounding towns is to thank for

2086
01:57:46,280 --> 01:57:49,800
Speaker 1: that real estate prices are tied to that tax base,

2087
01:57:50,400 --> 01:57:52,160
Speaker 1: And go like, so, don't tell me he's doing nothing

2088
01:57:52,960 --> 01:57:58,600
Speaker 1: because if you plucked it away, um, you would impact

2089
01:57:58,680 --> 01:58:00,840
Speaker 1: the lives of like a hype sentages people live in

2090
01:58:00,920 --> 01:58:03,480
Speaker 1: this area, like I like being armed with those and

2091
01:58:03,600 --> 01:58:05,680
Speaker 1: all of those figures exist as much as I was

2092
01:58:05,720 --> 01:58:07,800
Speaker 1: a little bit suspicious of when they started drawing them

2093
01:58:07,880 --> 01:58:10,080
Speaker 1: up because people throw around some crazy numbers. Well, and

2094
01:58:10,080 --> 01:58:12,200
Speaker 1: that's the thing we were just like so the evolving

2095
01:58:12,200 --> 01:58:14,200
Speaker 1: economy of the West, right, So we were used to

2096
01:58:14,200 --> 01:58:17,480
Speaker 1: talk looking at national forests as um timber producing, right,

2097
01:58:17,640 --> 01:58:19,640
Speaker 1: And that's an easy like you're going in, you're cutting

2098
01:58:19,680 --> 01:58:22,120
Speaker 1: a stand of timber, you have board feet, you're doing

2099
01:58:22,120 --> 01:58:25,680
Speaker 1: the calculation. There's the money sitting right there in a

2100
01:58:25,680 --> 01:58:29,120
Speaker 1: tidy pile getting piled onto a truck. Very easy to calculate.

2101
01:58:29,520 --> 01:58:32,120
Speaker 1: And then you can also do the then the extrapolation

2102
01:58:32,120 --> 01:58:34,240
Speaker 1: out into the communities and what kind of a recirculation

2103
01:58:34,240 --> 01:58:36,960
Speaker 1: where you have. But with recreation it's different, right, It's

2104
01:58:37,040 --> 01:58:38,960
Speaker 1: it's you're not just loading things on a truck, and

2105
01:58:39,000 --> 01:58:42,160
Speaker 1: it's different to comprehend. But the four like USD a

2106
01:58:42,240 --> 01:58:45,240
Speaker 1: forest service, Like they have economists that that's what they do.

2107
01:58:45,400 --> 01:58:47,560
Speaker 1: You can go in and you can actually search and

2108
01:58:47,600 --> 01:58:50,160
Speaker 1: find out like what is the recreation economic impact for

2109
01:58:50,240 --> 01:58:52,400
Speaker 1: such and such a forest on a community, And they'll

2110
01:58:52,400 --> 01:58:56,040
Speaker 1: extrapolate it out in their own way. Um so yeah, yeah,

2111
01:58:56,040 --> 01:58:58,720
Speaker 1: and we're way past hunters and anglers being like but

2112
01:58:58,800 --> 01:59:01,640
Speaker 1: and here's it's just there for It's like, but this

2113
01:59:01,680 --> 01:59:03,880
Speaker 1: is where I think hunters and anglers need to So

2114
01:59:03,920 --> 01:59:06,240
Speaker 1: I talk about infrastructure, like the infrastructure that supports the

2115
01:59:06,400 --> 01:59:09,040
Speaker 1: derecreation economy, and so like every segment of the economy

2116
01:59:09,080 --> 01:59:12,320
Speaker 1: has like this unique like what's the unique infrastructure that

2117
01:59:12,320 --> 01:59:15,160
Speaker 1: that defines it or supports it? Right, It's not just

2118
01:59:15,240 --> 01:59:16,880
Speaker 1: the roads that go to the parking lots that go

2119
01:59:16,920 --> 01:59:19,920
Speaker 1: to the trailheads that go to the trails. It's also

2120
01:59:20,200 --> 01:59:24,200
Speaker 1: open space, it's habitat, it's aquatic habitat, it's terrestrial habitat,

2121
01:59:24,280 --> 01:59:28,520
Speaker 1: it's viewsheds. Like though that's infrastructure, just like a bridge

2122
01:59:28,600 --> 01:59:30,640
Speaker 1: might be important to a certain sector, Like that's the

2123
01:59:30,640 --> 01:59:33,680
Speaker 1: infrastructure right well, by and large, Like who and what

2124
01:59:33,800 --> 01:59:37,000
Speaker 1: has paid for the infrastructure that the entire recreation economy

2125
01:59:37,080 --> 01:59:39,600
Speaker 1: now sits on. It's hunters and anglers like that have

2126
01:59:40,000 --> 01:59:42,800
Speaker 1: like built the foundation that that it's writing on, right,

2127
01:59:42,840 --> 01:59:45,400
Speaker 1: and the care of wildlife, the maintenance of row el life,

2128
01:59:45,440 --> 01:59:47,320
Speaker 1: and that it just is this then the segue of

2129
01:59:47,360 --> 01:59:49,040
Speaker 1: like oh my gosh, and there's so many more users,

2130
01:59:49,080 --> 01:59:51,160
Speaker 1: and how are the users helping pay for it? And

2131
01:59:51,160 --> 01:59:53,520
Speaker 1: and there's no silver bullet by any means, but you know,

2132
01:59:53,880 --> 01:59:59,360
Speaker 1: like passing habitat Montana weed money is like one little

2133
01:59:59,360 --> 02:00:02,040
Speaker 1: piece of the pie to helping support that it's getting

2134
02:00:02,040 --> 02:00:04,960
Speaker 1: to be almost a trillion dollar. Yeah, oh for sure.

2135
02:00:05,160 --> 02:00:10,560
Speaker 1: So seven they figured, uh, seven eight, but this is

2136
02:00:10,600 --> 02:00:17,120
Speaker 1: for the country seven eight billion and economic output. This

2137
02:00:17,200 --> 02:00:22,880
Speaker 1: is the outdoor industry numbers billion economic output two per

2138
02:00:22,920 --> 02:00:24,760
Speaker 1: one two like you said, two point one percent of

2139
02:00:24,840 --> 02:00:28,880
Speaker 1: US g d P five point two million jobs. And

2140
02:00:28,920 --> 02:00:31,840
Speaker 1: it's domestic that doesn't count the import of gear, right,

2141
02:00:31,920 --> 02:00:35,080
Speaker 1: Like this is like gross output. They're they're geting, they're

2142
02:00:35,160 --> 02:00:39,920
Speaker 1: rolling in Okay, they're rolling in boating, fishing, r ving, hunting, shooting. Oh,

2143
02:00:39,960 --> 02:00:47,120
Speaker 1: even trapping made the list. Motorcycling, trapping. There's no dude,

2144
02:00:47,120 --> 02:00:50,000
Speaker 1: not that me buying uh not me buying m B

2145
02:00:50,160 --> 02:00:58,080
Speaker 1: seven fifties. Uh, motorcycling, a TV and equestrian sports mm hmm. Yeah.

2146
02:00:58,360 --> 02:01:01,320
Speaker 1: It's it's huge, it's big and and so but and

2147
02:01:01,320 --> 02:01:02,920
Speaker 1: that's where when I was in the office and you

2148
02:01:02,960 --> 02:01:05,800
Speaker 1: talk about this a huge umbrella like hunting and angling

2149
02:01:05,920 --> 02:01:10,040
Speaker 1: has been a very very very important piece to this

2150
02:01:10,480 --> 02:01:13,840
Speaker 1: puzzle and I really want to make sure that it

2151
02:01:13,920 --> 02:01:17,880
Speaker 1: continues to be very relevant. And uh, like you're just

2152
02:01:17,920 --> 02:01:19,800
Speaker 1: a little tiny snapshot, right. I talked about like the

2153
02:01:19,800 --> 02:01:23,480
Speaker 1: white Fish trail system and Whitefish. Um, this amazing you

2154
02:01:23,480 --> 02:01:28,000
Speaker 1: know collaboration between private timberland and state land and federal

2155
02:01:28,080 --> 02:01:31,520
Speaker 1: land and private land like to put this trail system together.

2156
02:01:31,760 --> 02:01:34,080
Speaker 1: And the timberland is a block management piece in Montana

2157
02:01:34,120 --> 02:01:36,040
Speaker 1: and block management. I'm sure you talked about block management

2158
02:01:36,040 --> 02:01:38,200
Speaker 1: all the time, but it's people enroller land and for

2159
02:01:38,240 --> 02:01:41,000
Speaker 1: access for hunting and um, but you know, it was

2160
02:01:41,120 --> 02:01:44,879
Speaker 1: very important to maintain Like if you had just anybody

2161
02:01:44,920 --> 02:01:46,360
Speaker 1: going in there, they'll be like, yeah, we we have

2162
02:01:46,360 --> 02:01:47,920
Speaker 1: a trail system going through there, so there needs to

2163
02:01:47,920 --> 02:01:50,880
Speaker 1: be no more hunting because that's what's happening right, Like

2164
02:01:51,000 --> 02:01:53,520
Speaker 1: it's but that's not the case like that, you know,

2165
02:01:53,960 --> 02:01:56,560
Speaker 1: everyone made sure that like no hunting is a traditional

2166
02:01:56,680 --> 02:01:58,880
Speaker 1: use here, Like we are all sharing the space. We

2167
02:01:58,920 --> 02:02:01,280
Speaker 1: all need to be doing these things together, so we

2168
02:02:01,320 --> 02:02:03,320
Speaker 1: do need to keep hunting in these areas. Let's just

2169
02:02:03,360 --> 02:02:05,520
Speaker 1: make sure we're doing it in a safe way. So um,

2170
02:02:05,600 --> 02:02:08,240
Speaker 1: you know, if there's not a voice that's constantly talking

2171
02:02:08,240 --> 02:02:11,320
Speaker 1: about the heritage of hunting and angling. Um, I'm it's

2172
02:02:11,440 --> 02:02:15,080
Speaker 1: very concerning, you know, and we often we often times

2173
02:02:15,120 --> 02:02:18,040
Speaker 1: are talking in this like inslary bubble like hunting an angling,

2174
02:02:18,080 --> 02:02:21,880
Speaker 1: like we're king like you know, no man, not even

2175
02:02:21,960 --> 02:02:26,400
Speaker 1: kinda And um, so there's a lot there's a lot

2176
02:02:26,480 --> 02:02:28,360
Speaker 1: of interests out there, and so that's why it's really

2177
02:02:28,400 --> 02:02:31,200
Speaker 1: important to stay um in the mix and and understand

2178
02:02:31,280 --> 02:02:33,520
Speaker 1: like everyone else's perspective and where they're coming out of from.

2179
02:02:33,640 --> 02:02:35,520
Speaker 1: But do you feel that that's the case, and like

2180
02:02:35,600 --> 02:02:39,960
Speaker 1: for everyone in this room, right like knocked on folks

2181
02:02:40,040 --> 02:02:48,240
Speaker 1: who you know motorbike and make noise and right or

2182
02:02:48,320 --> 02:02:51,080
Speaker 1: like you know, even you're knocking on Yannie for skiing

2183
02:02:51,240 --> 02:02:56,680
Speaker 1: and liked be the last one trick pony on the planet.

2184
02:02:57,160 --> 02:02:59,840
Speaker 1: We hunt and we fished, and that is it. Back

2185
02:03:00,240 --> 02:03:02,240
Speaker 1: you're not a true outdoorsment. That doesn't mean you're bad.

2186
02:03:02,280 --> 02:03:06,760
Speaker 1: I prefer it. I wish that everyone. I wish to

2187
02:03:06,880 --> 02:03:12,280
Speaker 1: everyone the ice fish scheme instead. I don't, but I

2188
02:03:12,360 --> 02:03:15,320
Speaker 1: don't think that they're not true outdoorsman. No. But okay,

2189
02:03:15,360 --> 02:03:18,240
Speaker 1: so here here's the where I'm going with the question, like,

2190
02:03:18,880 --> 02:03:27,680
Speaker 1: because so much hunting angling money goes into supporting the outdoors,

2191
02:03:27,760 --> 02:03:31,560
Speaker 1: it seems better in my mind that everyone's like, we

2192
02:03:31,680 --> 02:03:38,440
Speaker 1: all do this. Yeah, but when you're discussing the idea

2193
02:03:38,440 --> 02:03:42,160
Speaker 1: of hunters and anglers and other outdoor users, there's a

2194
02:03:42,280 --> 02:03:46,320
Speaker 1: there's an important distinction here. Um. I think that hunters

2195
02:03:46,320 --> 02:03:52,839
Speaker 1: and anglers have developed an elevated sense of importance, perhaps

2196
02:03:52,920 --> 02:03:56,280
Speaker 1: even a supremacy when it comes to discussing sort of

2197
02:03:56,280 --> 02:03:59,520
Speaker 1: like their share of the pie on public lands or

2198
02:03:59,600 --> 02:04:02,120
Speaker 1: outdoor recreation or however you want to define what we're

2199
02:04:02,120 --> 02:04:07,000
Speaker 1: talking about, because they have historically had such an important

2200
02:04:07,240 --> 02:04:14,480
Speaker 1: funding role. Correct. So a lot of the land like management,

2201
02:04:14,600 --> 02:04:20,680
Speaker 1: state management of wildlife. Okay, certain land management agencies um

2202
02:04:20,800 --> 02:04:25,560
Speaker 1: having issues having to do with access, wildlife mitigation, disease

2203
02:04:25,600 --> 02:04:28,400
Speaker 1: research on down the line were funded by people who

2204
02:04:28,400 --> 02:04:31,960
Speaker 1: bought hunting and fishing licenses. So they felt like, naturally,

2205
02:04:32,760 --> 02:04:35,520
Speaker 1: we need to have a real seat at the table

2206
02:04:35,560 --> 02:04:39,080
Speaker 1: here because we're paying for a lot of this and

2207
02:04:40,360 --> 02:04:44,200
Speaker 1: other user groups don't have that. Other user groups don't

2208
02:04:44,240 --> 02:04:49,360
Speaker 1: have that legitimacy. Yeah. I refer to it as an infantile.

2209
02:04:49,560 --> 02:04:53,080
Speaker 1: It's infant Uh. The new it's so new users Like

2210
02:04:53,080 --> 02:04:55,280
Speaker 1: there's hunting and angling, right, and like this this evolution

2211
02:04:55,320 --> 02:04:57,480
Speaker 1: and now there's you know, like phishing access sites. The

2212
02:04:57,480 --> 02:05:00,520
Speaker 1: stupidest name ever. It's a water recreation site and on Hannah, right,

2213
02:05:00,560 --> 02:05:02,600
Speaker 1: but fishing dollars that paid for him. And now you

2214
02:05:02,640 --> 02:05:04,240
Speaker 1: look at the reality of like how many people that

2215
02:05:04,360 --> 02:05:07,920
Speaker 1: use those fishing access sites are actually fishing, fewer than

2216
02:05:07,960 --> 02:05:10,480
Speaker 1: the recreation user that never paid a dime for him.

2217
02:05:10,600 --> 02:05:12,560
Speaker 1: I loved one recently, though I can't remember where I

2218
02:05:12,600 --> 02:05:14,520
Speaker 1: saw it. If you held a fishing license, you didn't

2219
02:05:14,520 --> 02:05:17,360
Speaker 1: need to pay the fee, yeah, because they're like we

2220
02:05:17,400 --> 02:05:19,360
Speaker 1: already hit you when you bought your fishing license. So

2221
02:05:19,400 --> 02:05:21,400
Speaker 1: and that's and that's different states are doing different things

2222
02:05:21,400 --> 02:05:23,600
Speaker 1: to what when people show up at those fishing access

2223
02:05:23,640 --> 02:05:27,600
Speaker 1: sites and they're launching a kayak and not fishing, they

2224
02:05:27,600 --> 02:05:30,160
Speaker 1: should be kissing fishermen or they should be required to

2225
02:05:30,160 --> 02:05:32,080
Speaker 1: buy a fishing license. And these are all things that

2226
02:05:32,120 --> 02:05:34,560
Speaker 1: have been proposed. These are state funding mechanisms, and you

2227
02:05:34,600 --> 02:05:37,680
Speaker 1: need legislative you know, follow through to establish all these mechanisms.

2228
02:05:37,720 --> 02:05:41,000
Speaker 1: And so it's it's discussed like like explained like what

2229
02:05:41,040 --> 02:05:43,240
Speaker 1: people say when because I think you're gonna get into this,

2230
02:05:43,280 --> 02:05:45,600
Speaker 1: broty is like the backpack tax, and no one knows

2231
02:05:45,600 --> 02:05:47,840
Speaker 1: what it means. But what's it getting at. Well that

2232
02:05:47,880 --> 02:05:51,400
Speaker 1: you're that you would create the same kind of funding

2233
02:05:51,400 --> 02:05:56,920
Speaker 1: through an excise tax on camping gear or um campers

2234
02:05:57,120 --> 02:06:01,520
Speaker 1: or like mountain bikes, and so you know, then they're

2235
02:06:01,560 --> 02:06:05,880
Speaker 1: contributing in the same way hunters and anglers are, which

2236
02:06:06,120 --> 02:06:09,280
Speaker 1: initially as like yeah, man, like they should be paying

2237
02:06:09,280 --> 02:06:15,280
Speaker 1: two and they probably should. But if they do, then

2238
02:06:15,520 --> 02:06:17,520
Speaker 1: they want to sit at the table. Yeah I would

2239
02:06:17,800 --> 02:06:19,480
Speaker 1: if I could have it my way out, have them

2240
02:06:19,520 --> 02:06:22,080
Speaker 1: not pay and not be at the table. Well, they're

2241
02:06:22,120 --> 02:06:27,680
Speaker 1: at the table and they're not. So there's a situation here. Well,

2242
02:06:27,680 --> 02:06:29,440
Speaker 1: and here's the thing. Okay, so you guys are referring

2243
02:06:29,480 --> 02:06:32,160
Speaker 1: to like paying so like the it's licensed dollars, it's

2244
02:06:32,200 --> 02:06:34,560
Speaker 1: all of that, but it's also then pr DJ dollars

2245
02:06:34,880 --> 02:06:38,560
Speaker 1: you know that have so like all of that, all

2246
02:06:38,600 --> 02:06:41,400
Speaker 1: of this explain that real quick. It's over mentioned. But

2247
02:06:41,920 --> 02:06:45,920
Speaker 1: when you buy, uh, if you go buy a pocket pistol, okay,

2248
02:06:46,080 --> 02:06:48,200
Speaker 1: you buy a pocket pistol for seven hundred bucks for

2249
02:06:48,400 --> 02:06:54,240
Speaker 1: personal self defense whatever whatever you buy, like, you go,

2250
02:06:54,360 --> 02:06:58,320
Speaker 1: you go buy a personal self defense uh compact nine millimeter.

2251
02:06:59,440 --> 02:07:04,000
Speaker 1: Of that money funds wildlife. It's ten percent of wholesale

2252
02:07:04,040 --> 02:07:08,919
Speaker 1: but close and the bullets for it. But not reloading

2253
02:07:08,920 --> 02:07:13,880
Speaker 1: supplies UM, not optics, UM, you know, like archery equipment,

2254
02:07:14,240 --> 02:07:17,640
Speaker 1: fishing equipment, but chunks and pieces. But anyway, so voting

2255
02:07:17,680 --> 02:07:21,920
Speaker 1: equipment that doesn't boat gas from when you buy gas me, Marina,

2256
02:07:22,080 --> 02:07:25,640
Speaker 1: there's no equivalent of that. There's no equivalent of that.

2257
02:07:25,640 --> 02:07:27,840
Speaker 1: When you buy a set of skis, is that a

2258
02:07:27,880 --> 02:07:31,520
Speaker 1: back country touring skis? There's no equivalent correct, And that's

2259
02:07:31,760 --> 02:07:34,240
Speaker 1: and that was just you know, like hunters and anglers

2260
02:07:34,640 --> 02:07:38,200
Speaker 1: UM started funding all of this, and you know, maybe

2261
02:07:38,240 --> 02:07:41,520
Speaker 1: not the average hunter and angler, but but we started

2262
02:07:41,520 --> 02:07:46,960
Speaker 1: funding this out of crisis, crisis, like we're at the bottom,

2263
02:07:47,440 --> 02:07:51,640
Speaker 1: like we're like we are losing everything. So then now

2264
02:07:51,640 --> 02:07:53,520
Speaker 1: we have this history of fighting to get it back

2265
02:07:53,800 --> 02:07:57,040
Speaker 1: and investing to get it back. Well, these other recreation

2266
02:07:57,520 --> 02:08:01,040
Speaker 1: you know opportunities, they have never been through crisis, they've

2267
02:08:01,040 --> 02:08:03,840
Speaker 1: never lost anything. They're just getting going. Yeah, there's no

2268
02:08:05,960 --> 02:08:08,680
Speaker 1: but but as but as a result, like if now

2269
02:08:08,960 --> 02:08:11,640
Speaker 1: it's just like a bunch of like recreation pissing match, right,

2270
02:08:11,680 --> 02:08:13,600
Speaker 1: it's just like, yeah, well this trail is my trail.

2271
02:08:13,640 --> 02:08:15,360
Speaker 1: I don't want you on my trail. And you know

2272
02:08:15,440 --> 02:08:17,440
Speaker 1: it's like no, your stuff doesn't belong here. And it's

2273
02:08:17,440 --> 02:08:19,920
Speaker 1: like wow, everybody, if you don't back it up to

2274
02:08:20,040 --> 02:08:23,600
Speaker 1: like thirty feet and look at like the real core

2275
02:08:23,880 --> 02:08:27,000
Speaker 1: of like what is enabling us to do all of this,

2276
02:08:27,040 --> 02:08:29,560
Speaker 1: and if we don't work together, you know, like on

2277
02:08:29,600 --> 02:08:32,480
Speaker 1: public lands on a on a larger scale, will all

2278
02:08:32,600 --> 02:08:35,800
Speaker 1: lose everything. But it goes back to that consumptive versus

2279
02:08:35,840 --> 02:08:39,000
Speaker 1: non consumptive because if they're quote not having an impact,

2280
02:08:39,160 --> 02:08:41,960
Speaker 1: which is why it was very important when I was

2281
02:08:42,000 --> 02:08:45,320
Speaker 1: in office. There is a twenty year old um document

2282
02:08:45,520 --> 02:08:49,040
Speaker 1: that was done by the Montana Wildlife Society twenty years

2283
02:08:49,040 --> 02:08:52,160
Speaker 1: ago and it's the Impacts of Recreation on Rocky Mountain

2284
02:08:52,200 --> 02:08:55,160
Speaker 1: Wildlife and it hasn't been updated for twenty years and

2285
02:08:55,200 --> 02:08:56,960
Speaker 1: so you can go and look at it. And so

2286
02:08:57,000 --> 02:08:58,320
Speaker 1: I spent a lot of time when I was in

2287
02:08:58,360 --> 02:09:00,720
Speaker 1: office like this is really important, Like we need to

2288
02:09:00,760 --> 02:09:02,960
Speaker 1: be able to give our land managers the tools and

2289
02:09:02,960 --> 02:09:06,520
Speaker 1: the scientific knowledge so that they can resolve disputes. And

2290
02:09:06,520 --> 02:09:09,120
Speaker 1: then we can also tell everybody like look, no, you're

2291
02:09:09,160 --> 02:09:12,000
Speaker 1: having an impact, like you're pushing animals around more than

2292
02:09:12,040 --> 02:09:14,280
Speaker 1: a hunter would push animals around because of what you're

2293
02:09:14,280 --> 02:09:16,880
Speaker 1: doing in your actions. UM. And so that's why that

2294
02:09:16,960 --> 02:09:19,760
Speaker 1: was a really really important piece. That is, you know,

2295
02:09:20,320 --> 02:09:24,040
Speaker 1: go is the work is going forward, their updating the document, UM,

2296
02:09:24,280 --> 02:09:26,120
Speaker 1: we're finding funding for it. So it was really important

2297
02:09:26,120 --> 02:09:28,000
Speaker 1: to get that done. It seemed like most of the

2298
02:09:28,040 --> 02:09:30,080
Speaker 1: states you said before they have an office about door

2299
02:09:30,120 --> 02:09:33,080
Speaker 1: wreck were like in the Rocky mountains. Does it make

2300
02:09:33,120 --> 02:09:35,320
Speaker 1: sense for every state to have it, like Delaware in

2301
02:09:35,320 --> 02:09:40,360
Speaker 1: Indiana or so, it's not a Rocky Mountain thing the

2302
02:09:40,400 --> 02:09:42,440
Speaker 1: first but we've got oh my god, we've got like

2303
02:09:42,520 --> 02:09:46,160
Speaker 1: three in the Midwest, We've got UM, We've got Vermont.

2304
02:09:46,480 --> 02:09:48,280
Speaker 1: Sorry it's been a long time since Ratley's off. We've

2305
02:09:48,280 --> 02:09:51,240
Speaker 1: got Vermont, North Carolina. Like, it's kind of all over

2306
02:09:51,280 --> 02:09:53,960
Speaker 1: the place. It makes sense for every state, Oh, absolutely so.

2307
02:09:54,040 --> 02:09:56,040
Speaker 1: But it's office about the recreation right there. It's the

2308
02:09:56,120 --> 02:09:59,640
Speaker 1: outdoor recreation economy, which is really like to see and understand.

2309
02:09:59,680 --> 02:10:03,280
Speaker 1: In the asked iteration of the UM national report that

2310
02:10:03,320 --> 02:10:06,160
Speaker 1: came out for g d p UM, it had these

2311
02:10:06,200 --> 02:10:12,120
Speaker 1: great infographics because you have experiential expenditures around outdorecreation, and

2312
02:10:12,120 --> 02:10:16,760
Speaker 1: then you have the manufacturing expenditures around outdore creation. And

2313
02:10:16,800 --> 02:10:20,400
Speaker 1: so you see states like like Florida and Illinois where

2314
02:10:20,440 --> 02:10:22,600
Speaker 1: in every camper on the planet's manufacturing I think it's

2315
02:10:22,600 --> 02:10:25,760
Speaker 1: in Illinois. Um, but you see these like hot red

2316
02:10:25,800 --> 02:10:28,440
Speaker 1: states that are making all this money off of manufacturing

2317
02:10:28,480 --> 02:10:30,840
Speaker 1: the stuff. And then you've got these hot red states

2318
02:10:30,840 --> 02:10:33,680
Speaker 1: that are making all this money off of people using

2319
02:10:33,840 --> 02:10:37,440
Speaker 1: that stuff and experiencing the outdoors. And so you have

2320
02:10:37,520 --> 02:10:40,200
Speaker 1: you have to know, like none of these states, like

2321
02:10:40,240 --> 02:10:42,480
Speaker 1: these guys wouldn't be making money and manufacturing if they

2322
02:10:42,520 --> 02:10:44,440
Speaker 1: didn't have a place to go, and if we didn't

2323
02:10:44,440 --> 02:10:46,040
Speaker 1: have the place to go. You know, like it's this

2324
02:10:46,120 --> 02:10:49,960
Speaker 1: symbiotic relationship between the differing you know, demographic of the

2325
02:10:50,040 --> 02:10:55,240
Speaker 1: United States and are differing economies within states that intrastates

2326
02:10:55,480 --> 02:10:59,400
Speaker 1: stuff makes you think that it needs that we need

2327
02:10:59,440 --> 02:11:03,400
Speaker 1: a Secretary of Hey, it's it's young. We could see

2328
02:11:03,440 --> 02:11:07,920
Speaker 1: this first Secretary Hunting and Fishing, but it has Secretary

2329
02:11:07,920 --> 02:11:11,400
Speaker 1: of Outdoor Secretary of Hunting and Fishing. Then I actually

2330
02:11:11,440 --> 02:11:14,680
Speaker 1: actually did find the history of that Federal Bureau of

2331
02:11:14,720 --> 02:11:18,760
Speaker 1: Outdoor Recreation, which was founded in nineteen sixty three by

2332
02:11:18,920 --> 02:11:23,680
Speaker 1: a secretarial order. It was subsumed into a new agency

2333
02:11:23,760 --> 02:11:27,920
Speaker 1: called the Heritage Conservation and Recreation Service in nineteen seventy seven,

2334
02:11:28,320 --> 02:11:34,120
Speaker 1: which was then subsumed by the National It's interesting. Yeah, yeah,

2335
02:11:34,160 --> 02:11:36,320
Speaker 1: so we used to have one. Now we don't. Can

2336
02:11:36,400 --> 02:11:39,440
Speaker 1: let me hear you up to last questions? Um, they're

2337
02:11:39,480 --> 02:11:44,320
Speaker 1: big ones all. What so you're you now currently? You're

2338
02:11:44,360 --> 02:11:50,080
Speaker 1: like fundraising for a nonprofit Background and Anglers. What do

2339
02:11:50,120 --> 02:11:52,320
Speaker 1: you guys, Let's say you had all this money, get

2340
02:11:52,360 --> 02:11:55,040
Speaker 1: all this money, what are the top priorities did you

2341
02:11:55,120 --> 02:11:57,040
Speaker 1: like to spend it on? So the heritage of hunting

2342
02:11:57,120 --> 02:12:01,120
Speaker 1: and angling. Um. And then it's it's the voice of

2343
02:12:01,200 --> 02:12:04,280
Speaker 1: wild public land, water and wildlife and spending the money.

2344
02:12:04,280 --> 02:12:05,880
Speaker 1: And that's the cool part. B h A. Back and

2345
02:12:06,080 --> 02:12:08,880
Speaker 1: Hunters and Anglers. And by the way, we're having our

2346
02:12:08,920 --> 02:12:12,120
Speaker 1: tenth rendezvous this year and you're the speaker at the

2347
02:12:12,400 --> 02:12:16,000
Speaker 1: first rendezvous at the same space we're having it this year.

2348
02:12:16,280 --> 02:12:18,600
Speaker 1: It feels like about three people there, I think a

2349
02:12:18,680 --> 02:12:23,120
Speaker 1: hundred a hundred people. Yeah, super small. Um. But so

2350
02:12:23,160 --> 02:12:25,920
Speaker 1: this is what I've always found that is remarkable about

2351
02:12:25,920 --> 02:12:29,160
Speaker 1: back country hunters and anglers, back English is about its

2352
02:12:29,200 --> 02:12:33,720
Speaker 1: members like it is its members. This is people. These

2353
02:12:33,760 --> 02:12:38,160
Speaker 1: are hunters and anglers that give enough of a crap

2354
02:12:38,560 --> 02:12:42,440
Speaker 1: to be involved, to be active, to support what they

2355
02:12:42,920 --> 02:12:45,480
Speaker 1: love and believe in. Right, and so b h as

2356
02:12:45,480 --> 02:12:51,760
Speaker 1: an organization, we're simply finding resources to elevate their work,

2357
02:12:52,120 --> 02:12:56,280
Speaker 1: to help them do their work, to provide support because

2358
02:12:56,720 --> 02:12:59,680
Speaker 1: for as much as we're definitely used to UM you know,

2359
02:12:59,680 --> 02:13:03,960
Speaker 1: like your CPS awesome organization, and it's an organization of organizations,

2360
02:13:04,240 --> 02:13:06,520
Speaker 1: and it's you know, taking the collective voice you know

2361
02:13:06,600 --> 02:13:09,040
Speaker 1: of of organizations and talking on the national level. And

2362
02:13:09,080 --> 02:13:11,000
Speaker 1: b h A does work on the national level, but

2363
02:13:11,560 --> 02:13:14,560
Speaker 1: you you need that, you need organizations to have these

2364
02:13:14,560 --> 02:13:19,680
Speaker 1: formalized conversations with like policymakers and you know, involved with

2365
02:13:19,760 --> 02:13:23,720
Speaker 1: legislative actions. But what really moves the mark is an

2366
02:13:23,760 --> 02:13:27,040
Speaker 1: individual voice. And you know that is what b h

2367
02:13:27,120 --> 02:13:30,040
Speaker 1: A members do. It's an individual voice. It's that I

2368
02:13:30,080 --> 02:13:32,640
Speaker 1: am an individual and I believe in this and all

2369
02:13:32,720 --> 02:13:35,360
Speaker 1: of these people believe in this too, and so it's

2370
02:13:35,360 --> 02:13:39,000
Speaker 1: this amazing, awesome symbiotic relationship like these are These are

2371
02:13:39,000 --> 02:13:41,480
Speaker 1: the people on the ground getting the work done. Like

2372
02:13:41,640 --> 02:13:44,240
Speaker 1: if you ever think that you're a badass hunter angler.

2373
02:13:44,320 --> 02:13:47,640
Speaker 1: Just go visit with the average b h A member

2374
02:13:47,720 --> 02:13:50,160
Speaker 1: and you're just like, I need to up my game.

2375
02:13:50,240 --> 02:13:52,600
Speaker 1: You know. It's just and but the humblest, most amazing,

2376
02:13:53,040 --> 02:13:55,440
Speaker 1: you know, group of people and diverse. I mean, like

2377
02:13:55,480 --> 02:13:59,160
Speaker 1: our demographic is remarkable. There's you know, it's a third Democrat,

2378
02:13:59,200 --> 02:14:03,120
Speaker 1: a third Republic and a third independent. Membership is forty

2379
02:14:03,160 --> 02:14:05,560
Speaker 1: five and under UM and so it's you know, it's

2380
02:14:05,640 --> 02:14:10,240
Speaker 1: people that are not It's so much of conservation work

2381
02:14:10,480 --> 02:14:13,520
Speaker 1: is done in the tangible, like let's go and put

2382
02:14:13,520 --> 02:14:16,480
Speaker 1: this fence up, because I can act and I can

2383
02:14:16,520 --> 02:14:18,640
Speaker 1: do it, and I can see it and I saw

2384
02:14:18,680 --> 02:14:22,000
Speaker 1: the process start and I saw it finish. And so

2385
02:14:22,080 --> 02:14:27,440
Speaker 1: much work that b h A members do is the hard, long, grueling,

2386
02:14:28,760 --> 02:14:34,520
Speaker 1: thankless schlog of working on forest plans, of working in

2387
02:14:34,680 --> 02:14:38,040
Speaker 1: legislative sessions, and so much of the work that's done

2388
02:14:38,200 --> 02:14:42,200
Speaker 1: it's not tangible instantaneously. It's it's this, it's a long haul,

2389
02:14:42,320 --> 02:14:46,000
Speaker 1: and it's it's the really hard work that requires patients

2390
02:14:46,000 --> 02:14:49,240
Speaker 1: and perseverance. UM. So I couldn't be happier to be

2391
02:14:49,280 --> 02:14:53,680
Speaker 1: where I am. And UM, every career move I've made

2392
02:14:53,760 --> 02:14:55,920
Speaker 1: through my life It moves me one step closer to

2393
02:14:56,080 --> 02:14:59,280
Speaker 1: expelling every ounce of my energy only working on the

2394
02:14:59,320 --> 02:15:02,360
Speaker 1: stuff that I really really give a shit about, and

2395
02:15:02,400 --> 02:15:05,000
Speaker 1: that's my family and my life and you know public

2396
02:15:05,040 --> 02:15:07,080
Speaker 1: lands in these spaces that has sculpted in my life.

2397
02:15:07,480 --> 02:15:09,360
Speaker 1: So the more I can do to support pH A

2398
02:15:09,440 --> 02:15:12,480
Speaker 1: members and the work that they do, happier, I am. Uh.

2399
02:15:13,120 --> 02:15:14,880
Speaker 1: The last one touches on something you just brought up,

2400
02:15:14,920 --> 02:15:16,960
Speaker 1: which is your family. A few years ago, I saw

2401
02:15:17,040 --> 02:15:19,320
Speaker 1: you give a talk and you were kind of laying

2402
02:15:19,360 --> 02:15:22,480
Speaker 1: out the it was a slide show presentation. We were

2403
02:15:22,640 --> 02:15:25,600
Speaker 1: were a story we were storytellers. It's really funny, and

2404
02:15:25,600 --> 02:15:28,520
Speaker 1: you were laying out the storyteller this year like how

2405
02:15:28,560 --> 02:15:32,880
Speaker 1: hard it is and just like messy and inconvenient to

2406
02:15:33,760 --> 02:15:39,120
Speaker 1: raise kids in the outdoors. Just pull your hair out right,

2407
02:15:39,960 --> 02:15:42,960
Speaker 1: what is my life become? Yeah? So what um? And

2408
02:15:43,000 --> 02:15:45,320
Speaker 1: I know it's really important to you that you do that,

2409
02:15:45,880 --> 02:15:49,280
Speaker 1: that you raise your boys outside. What do you think

2410
02:15:49,280 --> 02:15:53,400
Speaker 1: they'll get out of it? Because the other day we

2411
02:15:53,440 --> 02:15:57,840
Speaker 1: had on UM we had on a spearfisher woman really

2412
02:15:57,880 --> 02:16:00,560
Speaker 1: identify with Kimmy a lot. And what I said, we're

2413
02:16:00,600 --> 02:16:02,360
Speaker 1: kind of like laying out like how much her dad,

2414
02:16:02,480 --> 02:16:04,800
Speaker 1: how much time her dad dedicated to bring in her spearfish,

2415
02:16:04,800 --> 02:16:07,800
Speaker 1: and and she kind of like dispelled any romantic notions.

2416
02:16:07,920 --> 02:16:10,120
Speaker 1: It was that he was going and he had to

2417
02:16:10,120 --> 02:16:13,080
Speaker 1: watch me. Therefore I had to go. I don't think

2418
02:16:13,080 --> 02:16:18,640
Speaker 1: there's anything else going on there, and it's landed or

2419
02:16:18,640 --> 02:16:22,200
Speaker 1: where she is. But just like a different version where um,

2420
02:16:22,400 --> 02:16:25,680
Speaker 1: I am kind of split. I guess like I'm going,

2421
02:16:26,560 --> 02:16:29,680
Speaker 1: which means you're going, but also I really want you

2422
02:16:29,720 --> 02:16:32,760
Speaker 1: to go. I'm in the same boat as you talk

2423
02:16:32,760 --> 02:16:34,280
Speaker 1: about a little bit like what you want them to

2424
02:16:34,320 --> 02:16:36,800
Speaker 1: get out of it or why it's important to you. Yeah.

2425
02:16:36,920 --> 02:16:38,760
Speaker 1: And I actually listened to that one with Kimmy and

2426
02:16:38,800 --> 02:16:40,800
Speaker 1: when she was talking about her relationship with her dad

2427
02:16:40,800 --> 02:16:42,320
Speaker 1: and her upbringing with her dad, I was like, oh

2428
02:16:42,400 --> 02:16:46,200
Speaker 1: my gosh, like I really identified with like everything she said.

2429
02:16:46,240 --> 02:16:49,080
Speaker 1: I remember my dad. I remember waking up in the

2430
02:16:49,080 --> 02:16:51,600
Speaker 1: middle of rain storms, sleeping on the top of gear

2431
02:16:51,680 --> 02:16:54,959
Speaker 1: piles in the back of rafts from overnight trips, and

2432
02:16:55,000 --> 02:16:59,040
Speaker 1: my dad is lining the boat through a precarious rapid.

2433
02:17:00,040 --> 02:17:02,080
Speaker 1: I'm just sleep on the boat and he's like, you're

2434
02:17:02,080 --> 02:17:04,120
Speaker 1: a good babe, just go back to sleep, right, And

2435
02:17:04,120 --> 02:17:06,080
Speaker 1: I've got one of those horse collar, you know, life

2436
02:17:06,120 --> 02:17:07,840
Speaker 1: jackets on, and you know, it was like that was

2437
02:17:07,879 --> 02:17:09,160
Speaker 1: his job, and I just got to go with him.

2438
02:17:09,280 --> 02:17:12,000
Speaker 1: Um yeah, with my kids. And I'm very very front

2439
02:17:12,000 --> 02:17:13,520
Speaker 1: with him because now I have a fourteen year old,

2440
02:17:13,560 --> 02:17:16,440
Speaker 1: and um, teenagers are the worst, but I love them

2441
02:17:16,440 --> 02:17:18,840
Speaker 1: in the same notion. But he's very much flexing his

2442
02:17:18,840 --> 02:17:23,480
Speaker 1: independent muscles, and he has had the most idyllic childhood,

2443
02:17:23,520 --> 02:17:27,320
Speaker 1: growing up in just the most amazing wild places, doing

2444
02:17:27,400 --> 02:17:29,680
Speaker 1: remarkable things, and he's just like, yeah, it's just so

2445
02:17:29,720 --> 02:17:31,520
Speaker 1: my jam. I'm just I mean, if I have my pick,

2446
02:17:31,560 --> 02:17:33,080
Speaker 1: I'm just not really and I just want to go hunt.

2447
02:17:33,080 --> 02:17:34,480
Speaker 1: I just don't want to go fish. I don't want

2448
02:17:34,480 --> 02:17:36,080
Speaker 1: to go camp, Like, I don't want to do that.

2449
02:17:36,120 --> 02:17:38,760
Speaker 1: I'm not really into that. And I tell him over

2450
02:17:38,800 --> 02:17:41,720
Speaker 1: and over again, I say, okay, yep, but I have

2451
02:17:41,840 --> 02:17:44,080
Speaker 1: one that's gone the other way. So with that guy,

2452
02:17:44,120 --> 02:17:45,560
Speaker 1: I just tell him, I was like, look, you are

2453
02:17:45,560 --> 02:17:46,800
Speaker 1: going to have to go do some of this stuff

2454
02:17:46,800 --> 02:17:48,480
Speaker 1: with me, but I am going to compromise with you.

2455
02:17:48,760 --> 02:17:50,640
Speaker 1: But what's really important to me is that if some

2456
02:17:50,879 --> 02:17:53,680
Speaker 1: day you decide that it's something you want to do,

2457
02:17:53,800 --> 02:17:55,920
Speaker 1: you have a skill set to fall back on, like

2458
02:17:56,240 --> 02:17:58,360
Speaker 1: you can. And I told him, I'm like, someday you're

2459
02:17:58,360 --> 02:18:01,200
Speaker 1: going to meet the super hot chick and she is

2460
02:18:01,240 --> 02:18:04,879
Speaker 1: going to think that, like, hunters are super cool, and

2461
02:18:05,080 --> 02:18:07,240
Speaker 1: you're probably gonna start hunting again. You know. It's just

2462
02:18:07,600 --> 02:18:09,640
Speaker 1: like I want you. I want to know that you

2463
02:18:09,720 --> 02:18:12,000
Speaker 1: have the skills. You can hunt if you want, you

2464
02:18:12,040 --> 02:18:14,720
Speaker 1: can fish if you want, you can ski if you want.

2465
02:18:14,800 --> 02:18:17,199
Speaker 1: If it's not something that's your top priority, okay, that's fine.

2466
02:18:17,400 --> 02:18:19,480
Speaker 1: But then my twelve year old is just like this

2467
02:18:20,520 --> 02:18:24,920
Speaker 1: just rabid outdoor kid. Like he he loves passionate about skiing,

2468
02:18:24,920 --> 02:18:29,080
Speaker 1: he's passionate about um mountain biking, but he loves hunting. Um,

2469
02:18:29,120 --> 02:18:32,039
Speaker 1: he loves to go out fishing. He you know, he's

2470
02:18:32,080 --> 02:18:34,840
Speaker 1: getting his life membership from h A as a gift

2471
02:18:34,879 --> 02:18:37,080
Speaker 1: for me, and he's pissed that there's not a fly

2472
02:18:37,200 --> 02:18:39,920
Speaker 1: rod incentive. So I had to buy him his own.

2473
02:18:39,920 --> 02:18:42,280
Speaker 1: He got his own Winston this a couple of weeks ago.

2474
02:18:42,400 --> 02:18:44,400
Speaker 1: Used to I know, but that's not one of the

2475
02:18:44,400 --> 02:18:46,880
Speaker 1: perks at the moment. Yeah, exactly. And so he was

2476
02:18:46,959 --> 02:18:48,480
Speaker 1: just like, well I wanted the fly rod. I'm like, oh,

2477
02:18:48,520 --> 02:18:51,480
Speaker 1: I didn't get it for you soon enough anyway, So um.

2478
02:18:51,520 --> 02:18:53,560
Speaker 1: But yeah. He on the other hand, is like he's

2479
02:18:53,560 --> 02:18:55,960
Speaker 1: already been like so when he was like eight, He's like, so,

2480
02:18:56,000 --> 02:18:58,560
Speaker 1: I'm going to go to college in Bozeman because I

2481
02:18:58,600 --> 02:19:01,400
Speaker 1: can go for snow science and I can be a

2482
02:19:01,440 --> 02:19:03,240
Speaker 1: fishing guide in the summer and then I can be

2483
02:19:03,280 --> 02:19:05,440
Speaker 1: ski patrol in the winter. I was just like, oh,

2484
02:19:05,520 --> 02:19:07,280
Speaker 1: my kid, if I had figured out like you and

2485
02:19:07,320 --> 02:19:10,280
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, um, but I was like, I like where

2486
02:19:10,280 --> 02:19:12,360
Speaker 1: your head's at, and like your heads at So yeah,

2487
02:19:12,360 --> 02:19:17,640
Speaker 1: it's it's so it's just a compromise and yeah, it's

2488
02:19:17,800 --> 02:19:19,600
Speaker 1: you know, when I was doing that presentation, it was

2489
02:19:19,640 --> 02:19:22,440
Speaker 1: like going from a person outdoor in the outdoors to

2490
02:19:22,520 --> 02:19:26,120
Speaker 1: a parent in the outdoors. It's like this complete rearrangement

2491
02:19:26,160 --> 02:19:28,959
Speaker 1: of priorities in your head. And it's like I used to,

2492
02:19:29,280 --> 02:19:31,760
Speaker 1: you know, go so hard over here and so fixated

2493
02:19:31,800 --> 02:19:35,760
Speaker 1: and so focused, and now it's like more about the snacks,

2494
02:19:35,840 --> 02:19:38,760
Speaker 1: and you know, like it's just it just becomes different.

2495
02:19:38,800 --> 02:19:40,920
Speaker 1: But it comes full circle too. When they were little,

2496
02:19:40,920 --> 02:19:43,480
Speaker 1: did you find that it was just so hard to

2497
02:19:43,520 --> 02:19:47,400
Speaker 1: get everybody out the door? Um? Yeah, and so much preparation,

2498
02:19:48,120 --> 02:19:51,600
Speaker 1: like so much preparation, Like you're like like the bags

2499
02:19:51,640 --> 02:19:53,320
Speaker 1: of the gear and the getting and the like what

2500
02:19:53,360 --> 02:19:55,800
Speaker 1: did I forget? And it's so much more work, and

2501
02:19:55,840 --> 02:19:58,120
Speaker 1: you understand why some people, if they're not really dedicated

2502
02:19:58,160 --> 02:19:59,520
Speaker 1: to it, it's just like, let's let it go by

2503
02:19:59,560 --> 02:20:03,000
Speaker 1: the way side. Too much work. Boots were just here,

2504
02:20:03,200 --> 02:20:10,640
Speaker 1: Yeah you had a jacket on exactly. So yeah, it's

2505
02:20:10,720 --> 02:20:13,000
Speaker 1: it's pretty wild, but it's it's totally worth it. I

2506
02:20:13,000 --> 02:20:17,120
Speaker 1: think it's worth every every minute of it. Um, it's fun.

2507
02:20:17,160 --> 02:20:18,640
Speaker 1: You know, like last then one day you catch tea

2508
02:20:18,680 --> 02:20:21,440
Speaker 1: turtles having sex. Yeah exactly, but yeah, you can be

2509
02:20:21,480 --> 02:20:25,800
Speaker 1: like that. Last summer I took my kids, we did

2510
02:20:25,840 --> 02:20:28,800
Speaker 1: the Main Salmon River in Idaho, and so I, you know,

2511
02:20:28,879 --> 02:20:30,959
Speaker 1: my kids thought they had seen whitewater and they had

2512
02:20:31,080 --> 02:20:33,720
Speaker 1: never seen Idaho white water. And so I wrote them

2513
02:20:33,720 --> 02:20:35,600
Speaker 1: down the main Salmon and even the one that even

2514
02:20:35,600 --> 02:20:36,800
Speaker 1: the one that doesn't want to go, yeah, and the

2515
02:20:36,800 --> 02:20:38,760
Speaker 1: one that's like, well, I don't really want to go,

2516
02:20:38,800 --> 02:20:40,280
Speaker 1: but if I'm gonna go, And then you know, you

2517
02:20:40,280 --> 02:20:42,480
Speaker 1: get him out there and he's just like this is

2518
02:20:42,520 --> 02:20:45,640
Speaker 1: a sick trip. He you know, he just he loved. Yes,

2519
02:20:45,720 --> 02:20:48,800
Speaker 1: it wasn't that bad. Wasn't that The beaches are amazing?

2520
02:20:48,959 --> 02:20:52,800
Speaker 1: You know, so it all it all works out. Yeah,

2521
02:20:53,280 --> 02:20:57,000
Speaker 1: fourteen and twelve, fourteen and twelve dread. Yeah, I see

2522
02:20:57,080 --> 02:21:02,440
Speaker 1: I still have where everybody likes me, and I know

2523
02:21:02,520 --> 02:21:04,480
Speaker 1: that that's going to go away. Oh is it? Yes?

2524
02:21:05,240 --> 02:21:08,360
Speaker 1: Yeah it does. And then I think, what did we

2525
02:21:08,440 --> 02:21:10,440
Speaker 1: When did we all start liking our parents? Again? It's

2526
02:21:10,480 --> 02:21:12,879
Speaker 1: not that I didn't like my parents, but you're like,

2527
02:21:14,480 --> 02:21:18,199
Speaker 1: died before that happened. It was it was like postmortem

2528
02:21:18,280 --> 02:21:20,560
Speaker 1: for me. He died in ten years later. I'm like, yeah,

2529
02:21:20,600 --> 02:21:23,840
Speaker 1: kind of he is getting at Yeah, but you know,

2530
02:21:24,120 --> 02:21:25,680
Speaker 1: and I look at it like my grandfather he used

2531
02:21:25,680 --> 02:21:27,280
Speaker 1: to take me out fishing all the time too, and

2532
02:21:27,360 --> 02:21:29,400
Speaker 1: you know, like we would you know, like I remember

2533
02:21:29,520 --> 02:21:31,959
Speaker 1: like driving like two and a half hours to like

2534
02:21:32,000 --> 02:21:34,120
Speaker 1: a fishing spot and then like we get all of

2535
02:21:34,120 --> 02:21:35,600
Speaker 1: our stuff out and get the flow tubes out, and

2536
02:21:35,640 --> 02:21:37,440
Speaker 1: I just looked at him. I was like, I was

2537
02:21:37,480 --> 02:21:40,400
Speaker 1: like twelve. I was like I forgot my flippers, and

2538
02:21:40,400 --> 02:21:43,760
Speaker 1: he was just like, okay, we'll pack it all up here,

2539
02:21:43,760 --> 02:21:46,120
Speaker 1: we go home. You know, Just like it's just the

2540
02:21:46,120 --> 02:21:52,000
Speaker 1: way it ghost. It all comes full circle. It's upsetting um,

2541
02:21:52,120 --> 02:21:55,920
Speaker 1: but man, there's like magical moments because my little boy

2542
02:21:56,040 --> 02:21:57,920
Speaker 1: just caught us first, like where he did the cast,

2543
02:21:58,760 --> 02:22:04,440
Speaker 1: the hook up, the real end, no assistance, and he

2544
02:22:04,520 --> 02:22:08,320
Speaker 1: was just ecstatic. It's amazing. That's a big moment. That's

2545
02:22:08,320 --> 02:22:14,240
Speaker 1: to say, come to his laugh is the best man

2546
02:22:14,320 --> 02:22:16,760
Speaker 1: when he gets going. Well, like my win, my one

2547
02:22:16,800 --> 02:22:19,640
Speaker 1: win this winter was I loved ice fish. I love

2548
02:22:19,680 --> 02:22:21,520
Speaker 1: ice fishing, and I think it's like the best kid

2549
02:22:21,560 --> 02:22:25,200
Speaker 1: thing too. So drag the fourteen year old old fourteen

2550
02:22:25,240 --> 02:22:27,039
Speaker 1: year old out ice fishing and he's just like I

2551
02:22:27,040 --> 02:22:28,480
Speaker 1: can't believe this, And I'm like, what we're doing in

2552
02:22:28,560 --> 02:22:30,680
Speaker 1: the afternoon, We're on for the afternoon bite. It's all

2553
02:22:30,720 --> 02:22:32,560
Speaker 1: gonna be good. I set up like whole camp chef

2554
02:22:32,600 --> 02:22:35,240
Speaker 1: set up. I'm like cooking tacos and I'm just running

2555
02:22:35,280 --> 02:22:38,280
Speaker 1: and like literally it's hot perch and like one boy

2556
02:22:38,440 --> 02:22:40,400
Speaker 1: is like pulling it. I'm like doing a triangle like

2557
02:22:40,959 --> 02:22:44,280
Speaker 1: fish off, you know, magat On down the whole, fish off,

2558
02:22:44,360 --> 02:22:47,080
Speaker 1: megan On down the whole, flip a taco, run back over.

2559
02:22:47,120 --> 02:22:49,640
Speaker 1: I'm just like doing this like circle in the hot chocolate,

2560
02:22:49,879 --> 02:22:51,320
Speaker 1: and I like I'm doing my own thing, and I

2561
02:22:51,360 --> 02:22:53,240
Speaker 1: hear my fourteen year old look at his his twelve

2562
02:22:53,320 --> 02:22:56,480
Speaker 1: year old brother and was like, dude, this is really fun.

2563
02:22:57,080 --> 02:23:00,320
Speaker 1: It's like I win, Like I won this winter. I won.

2564
02:23:00,680 --> 02:23:05,280
Speaker 1: I won. That's great. It's a good mom. I'm working

2565
02:23:05,280 --> 02:23:09,360
Speaker 1: on it, trying, trying hard. Well, hopefully someday you'll be

2566
02:23:09,400 --> 02:23:13,199
Speaker 1: on your deathbed. They were like, you know, ma, thanks,

2567
02:23:13,240 --> 02:23:16,960
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, thanks. Thanks. When you told me that

2568
02:23:17,040 --> 02:23:19,200
Speaker 1: chick would really be into fly fishing schools, you were right,

2569
02:23:19,520 --> 02:23:24,520
Speaker 1: she was. Rachel Schmidt, thank you very much for joining us.

2570
02:23:24,720 --> 02:23:26,000
Speaker 1: I was gonna do that thing where I tell you

2571
02:23:26,040 --> 02:23:28,160
Speaker 1: what how to for people, how to find you check

2572
02:23:28,160 --> 02:23:30,039
Speaker 1: out b h A. Let me talking about it a lot.

2573
02:23:30,440 --> 02:23:32,959
Speaker 1: Everybody is pretty involved and it's a good group of

2574
02:23:32,959 --> 02:23:35,560
Speaker 1: people and you learn a lot of stuff and it's good.

2575
02:23:36,000 --> 02:23:39,480
Speaker 1: But yeah, if you want to find me personally, um Instagram,

2576
02:23:39,520 --> 02:23:41,720
Speaker 1: it's Montana Ray ray m t r a r A

2577
02:23:41,959 --> 02:23:45,960
Speaker 1: or Rachel Schmidt Montana Ray ray m t r a

2578
02:23:46,400 --> 02:23:49,680
Speaker 1: r A. Latest picture is a giant black drum. I

2579
02:23:49,680 --> 02:23:53,600
Speaker 1: just caught in Louisiana. Very pumped about that. Yeah, well

2580
02:23:53,680 --> 02:23:55,240
Speaker 1: check are you active on there? Do you put stuff

2581
02:23:55,320 --> 02:23:58,440
Speaker 1: up on there? A lot? Yeah? Not as much as

2582
02:23:58,480 --> 02:24:03,520
Speaker 1: some You don't live by it. No, no, what are

2583
02:24:03,520 --> 02:24:07,400
Speaker 1: you eating by more pocket meat while you're packing a chaw?

2584
02:24:10,760 --> 02:24:13,039
Speaker 1: All right, Rachel, Hey, thanks for happy, Thanks for joining

2585
02:24:13,080 --> 02:24:15,320
Speaker 1: us sing, Thanks for bringing down all that stuff. That's

2586
02:24:16,120 --> 02:24:17,920
Speaker 1: very helpful. Grybody, See you next time.