Speaker 1: You're listening to part Time Genius, the production of Kaleidoscope
Speaker 1: and iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2: Guess what, Mango?
Speaker 1: What's that? Will?
Speaker 2: All right, we're gonna go way back in history. You ready,
Speaker 2: We're going to the Roman Empire. I know this is
Speaker 2: sort of one of your things, so you should get
Speaker 2: excited about this. But anyway, the Roman emperor Vespasian, he
Speaker 2: actually started construction of the coliseum around seventy CE. And
Speaker 2: there's this enormous amphitheater project, and they had to figure
Speaker 2: out how to pay for it, and it was paid
Speaker 2: for in part by taxes, including a tax on urine.
Speaker 2: Did you know this?
Speaker 1: I had no idea. So you had to pay a
Speaker 1: tax if you went to the bathroom.
Speaker 2: Actually, no ancient Romans could pee for free, just one
Speaker 2: of the side benefits of being an h Roman totally free.
Speaker 2: But people collected urine from the public toilets and actually
Speaker 2: sold that urine. Now that's because uria, one of the
Speaker 2: most abundant waste products. In urine breaks down into ammonia,
Speaker 2: which was used for cleaning. Now, as a result of this,
Speaker 2: Rome had a bustling urine trade, and Vespasian sensed an
Speaker 2: opportunity here and decided, you know what, I'm going to
Speaker 2: tax it.
Speaker 1: That is both fascinating and gross.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, you sound like Vespasian Sun Titus, who
Speaker 2: also thought that the urine tax was gross. Isn't that weird?
Speaker 1: This is not the first time someone's told me it
Speaker 1: seemed like Titus. I got Compson.
Speaker 2: At Titus twins two peas in a pod.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 2: In response to this, his dad held up one of
Speaker 2: the gold coins that he'd received in payment and asked
Speaker 2: if it smelled bad. Now. When Titus said no, Vespasian responded,
Speaker 2: and yet it is derived from urine. Such a weird response.
Speaker 1: It's like a great dad joke.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it totally is. But from now on, whenever you
Speaker 2: see a picture of the Colise, and be sure to
Speaker 2: remember all the hard working Roman urine dealers whose taxes
Speaker 2: helped pay for that. Well.
Speaker 1: I know a lot of people here in the US
Speaker 1: are thinking about taxes this week, So to celebrate or
Speaker 1: maybe commiserate, today, we are auditing nine of the world's
Speaker 1: weirdest taxes, from hot air balloon loopholes to a finished
Speaker 1: bike controversy. So let's starve in.
Speaker 2: Hey, their podcast listeners, welcome to Part Time Genius I'm
Speaker 2: Will Pearson and is always I'm here with my good
Speaker 2: friend Mangesh Hot Ticketter and over there in the booth
Speaker 2: filling out a federal form. Looks like it's Federal Form
Speaker 2: eight eight two to one. That's our pal and producer
Speaker 2: Dylan Fagan. Now, Mango, I'm sure you know this, but
Speaker 2: good old eight eight to two to one is the
Speaker 2: Tax Information Authorization Form.
Speaker 1: I did know that, of course, and now that Dylan
Speaker 1: signed it, we are officially authorized to share as much
Speaker 1: tax information as we want today. I just love how
Speaker 1: he dots those eyes and crosses those teas.
Speaker 2: He's always doing things by the books, you know, like
Speaker 2: even when he's doing wild things, and sort of buy
Speaker 2: the books. And so all right, let's talk taxes here
Speaker 2: before we get into our next weird tax story. I
Speaker 2: was actually curious where the idea of taxation originated, and
Speaker 2: the answer is ancient Egypt, and this was sometime around
Speaker 2: three thousand BCE. Now, back then, most taxes were related
Speaker 2: to agricultural production, not surprisingly, and payments were tied to
Speaker 2: agricultural production as well. So instead of money changing hands,
Speaker 2: a certain percentage of each harvest just went into a
Speaker 2: storage center that was owned by the broader state. Now,
Speaker 2: over many thousands of years, this system evolved as the
Speaker 2: economy changed, and at first taxes were assessed at the
Speaker 2: community level, but before long individuals had to pay their
Speaker 2: own tax. Egyptian pharaohs had scribes and professional tax collectors,
Speaker 2: and it was their job to keep track of what
Speaker 2: everybody owed, kind of like you know, an ancient irs
Speaker 2: of sorts, and you know how they say that the
Speaker 2: only guarantees in life are death and taxes. I would
Speaker 2: actually add a third thing, and that is tax cheats.
Speaker 2: So even back in ancient Egypt, wealthy people would fudge
Speaker 2: numbers and bribe tax collectors to avoid paying their fair
Speaker 2: share of taxes. And it went both ways too, with
Speaker 2: rulers offering tax breaks to their political cronies.
Speaker 1: Well, our next weird tax is a problem for me personally,
Speaker 1: and it's not one a pharaoh would recognize. It is
Speaker 1: the sliced bagel tax. Now, I live in New York City,
Speaker 1: home of the best bagels in the world, and will
Speaker 1: do you have a go to bagel order?
Speaker 2: Oh man, I am the most boring bagel order in
Speaker 2: the world because I do have a go to order.
Speaker 2: And guess what it's two ingredients. It's a toasted wheat
Speaker 2: bagel with a light amount of cream cheese on it.
Speaker 2: You ever had one like that? How about you?
Speaker 1: I have, and I've sent it back for more cream cheese. Yeah.
Speaker 1: My go to bagel order is and everything bagel. I
Speaker 1: also toast fine scallion, cream cheese, tomato, and capers. But Wow,
Speaker 1: before my guy can apply that shmear to my bagel,
Speaker 1: he has to slice it, which means I actually have
Speaker 1: to pay the standard New York sales tax of eight
Speaker 1: point eight seventy five percent on top of the base price.
Speaker 1: And that is because the act of slicing a bagel
Speaker 1: turns it into a sandwich, and according to New York, Wow,
Speaker 1: sandwiches are taxed different that hold bagels.
Speaker 2: That is hilarious. So I guess technically you could buy
Speaker 2: a bagel, ask them not to slice it, get the
Speaker 2: cream cheese on the side, take it home, slice it
Speaker 2: for yourself, and then I guess you'd say, wopping what
Speaker 2: like nine percent in tax?
Speaker 1: Right? Mm hmm? That is exactly right. And I realized
Speaker 1: this sounds crazy, because it is crazy, But you know,
Speaker 1: it all began with a ration idea in nineteen thirty four,
Speaker 1: New York City introduced a planned to levy a two
Speaker 1: percent tax on restaurant and hotel meals. This was during
Speaker 1: the Great Depression and the city needed to raise money
Speaker 1: for unemployment relief. Now, over the next few decades, the
Speaker 1: restaurant tax kind of hung around, and it gradually turned
Speaker 1: into a tax on prepared foods. This includes sandwiches and
Speaker 1: sliced bagels with cream cheese. But a couple of years ago,
Speaker 1: a famous New York bagel company called H and H
Speaker 1: came up with a workaround. They collaborated with Philadelphia to
Speaker 1: make a limited edition whole bagel injected with cream cheese
Speaker 1: so customers could avoid paying the sliced bagel sandwich tax.
Speaker 1: Isn't that amazing.
Speaker 2: Injected with cream cheese? Yeah, it's amazing because you know,
Speaker 2: injecting a bagel with cream cheese sounds like a lot
Speaker 2: more hassle than just using a knife to cut it
Speaker 2: in half.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, I wouldn't eat this because I'm not
Speaker 1: a stuffed crust person, and I'm not a stuffed bagel person.
Speaker 1: I'm also not a stuffed hot dog person with hot
Speaker 1: These are just principles I live by.
Speaker 2: I'm with you one hundred percent on that. And you know,
Speaker 2: as you just made clear, taxing a product doesn't necessarily
Speaker 2: stop people from buying it now. On the other hand,
Speaker 2: taking away a tax break can change people's consumption behavior,
Speaker 2: at least in Finland, and at least when it comes
Speaker 2: to bikes. See last year, the Finnish government decided to
Speaker 2: end a program that let people purchase e bikes from
Speaker 2: their employers tax free. Now. This incentive allowed companies to
Speaker 2: sell bikes to employees as part of their benefit package
Speaker 2: and the ability to claim up to twelve hundred euros
Speaker 2: in tax free savings. The program was intended to encourage
Speaker 2: physical activity and reduce reliance on cars, and since it
Speaker 2: launched in twenty twenty one, over one hundred thousand people
Speaker 2: have participated in this.
Speaker 1: I don't actually know what the population of Finland is,
Speaker 1: but it feels like one hundred thousand more people hopping
Speaker 1: on bikes is a lot of people.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I do know the population of Finland. It's
Speaker 2: five point six million people. But you're right, like it
Speaker 2: is a lot of people. And a side effect of
Speaker 2: the incentive was a sales boom for Finish e bike makers. Unfortunately,
Speaker 2: the tax break fell victim to government cost cutting in
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five, and this bring an industry report show
Speaker 2: that finished bike sales are down forty percent compared to
Speaker 2: last year. But hopefully the fans will keep peddling anyway,
Speaker 2: because it really is good for the environment and for
Speaker 2: your health, and it's also fun.
Speaker 1: Yeah. As an American, it's so wild to think about
Speaker 1: getting a tax break for buying a bike, but I
Speaker 1: imagine that would be really great for the nation. Wait,
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Speaker 1: I do think taxes tend to show nations priorities, and
Speaker 1: that's exactly the case with this next fact, which comes
Speaker 1: to us from Japan. It involves at tax called furusato
Speaker 1: nose or the hometown tax. So this program was created
Speaker 1: in two thousand and eight to address a problem that's
Speaker 1: been plaguing in Japan for a very long time. Young
Speaker 1: people are moving out of the countryside in order to
Speaker 1: find jobs and cities. This decreasing rule tax base means
Speaker 1: small towns and villages have struggled to maintain basic public services. Now,
Speaker 1: the hometown tax is a way to donate a portion
Speaker 1: of your total income and residency tax to a region
Speaker 1: other than the one you live in. And you can
Speaker 1: do this at any time during the year, and when
Speaker 1: it's time to follow your taxes, you can actually offset
Speaker 1: whatever you owe in your current municipality by the amount
Speaker 1: of your donation.
Speaker 2: Well that's interesting. So you're paying the same amount of tax,
Speaker 2: you're just redirecting some of it to your hometown, even
Speaker 2: if you don't live there anymore.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it actually doesn't even have to be your hometown.
Speaker 1: It could be any one of the designated rural regions,
Speaker 1: so you don't have to have any sort of like
Speaker 1: personal connection to the place where you send your taxes.
Speaker 1: In fact, even foreigners living in Japan can participate in
Speaker 1: this program.
Speaker 2: So if it's not where you're from, like, how do
Speaker 2: you decide where to send your payment?
Speaker 1: The whole thing involves a little quid pro quo, So
Speaker 1: regions that receive hometown tax payments send donors return gifts
Speaker 1: in exchange. So apparently some places get a little carried
Speaker 1: away with this, and they start offering things like Amazon
Speaker 1: gift cards in order to attract more donations. So the
Speaker 1: Japanese government has actually amended the law to say that
Speaker 1: return gifts can only be where thirty percent of the
Speaker 1: payments received, and they must be local products. So these days,
Speaker 1: the gifts typically include regional food specialties like sake or candy, meat,
Speaker 1: boxes of fruit, or even a coupon for cultural experiences
Speaker 1: like a class with local artisans, which you know, sounds
Speaker 1: to me much better than an Amazon gift card, like
Speaker 1: I would take Jack candies any day, right of course. Anyway,
Speaker 1: all of this means that some people make their hometown
Speaker 1: tax decisions based on which regional foods they want to
Speaker 1: receive as a gift.
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, when a snack lover I am,
Speaker 2: I feel like this is such a good system. I
Speaker 2: would definitely be so much more excited about paying taxes
Speaker 2: if I got snacks in return. I had no idea
Speaker 2: why we haven't implemented this year, but all right, we
Speaker 2: have to take a quick break for snacks, I guess.
Speaker 2: But when we come back. How building awnings created a
Speaker 2: tax uproar in Italy and why hot air balloons are
Speaker 2: not treated equally under US tax law. Don't go anywhere.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to part time Genius, where we are having
Speaker 1: the least stressful conversation about taxes you'll hear this month.
Speaker 1: And the good news is you don't owe as anything.
Speaker 1: But if you'd like to do as a favor and
Speaker 1: make sure you're subscribe on your favorite podcast app and
Speaker 1: leave us a nice rating interview. You can also share
Speaker 1: this episode with a friend, especially if you know an accountant.
Speaker 1: I guarantee they need something fun to listen to you
Speaker 1: right now.
Speaker 2: That's true, all right, mango, I've been looking forward to
Speaker 2: this fact here. So what is the difference between a
Speaker 2: hot air balloon flying freely in the air and a
Speaker 2: hot air balloon that's tethered to.
Speaker 1: The ground, I mean a rope?
Speaker 2: That is true, But also one of them is subject
Speaker 2: you're so smart, mango.
Speaker 1: Uh huh.
Speaker 2: One of them is subjects to a state sales tax
Speaker 2: if you pay for a ride in it, and the
Speaker 2: other one is not. And here's why. So back in
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy three, the US government passed the Anti Head
Speaker 2: Tax Act. Among other things, this made it illegal for
Speaker 2: states to charge taxes on air transportation This was to
Speaker 2: prevent any one state from levying taxes that might interfere
Speaker 2: with interstate commerce, which can involve multiple states. So the
Speaker 2: question is, if you run a company that takes paying
Speaker 2: customers on scenic balloon rides through state sales taxes apply
Speaker 2: to you. Now, this question was raised in courts in
Speaker 2: both Kansas and in Missouri, and both states came to
Speaker 2: the same conclusion. If a hot air balloon is untethered,
Speaker 2: it counts as air transportation and those rides cannot be taxed.
Speaker 2: But some balloon operators keep their craft tethered to the ground,
Speaker 2: you know, so passengers can go up to like seventy
Speaker 2: feet in the air and they're not actually traveling from
Speaker 2: point A to point B. And in that situation, the
Speaker 2: courts ruled that the balloon is not a form of
Speaker 2: air transportation. It's more like an amusement park ride, and
Speaker 2: it is subject to a state sales tax.
Speaker 1: I guess that makes sense, But obviously now I'm wondering
Speaker 1: what happens if you buy a ticket for a tethered
Speaker 1: balloon ride and while you're out there, someone cuts the rope,
Speaker 1: Like you get your sales taxbos like assuming that you
Speaker 1: land safely.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is I'm sure their biggest concern if that,
Speaker 2: If that happens to somebody, I'm pretty sure if that
Speaker 2: happened to me, I'd want my whole ticket refunded, to
Speaker 2: be honest with you, But I don't actually know. It's
Speaker 2: a very very good question, all right. If anyone listening
Speaker 2: happens to own a hot air balloon business, here is
Speaker 2: an easy way to remember the rules. If your balloon
Speaker 2: is tethered, tax must be weathered. If your balloon flies loose,
Speaker 2: you have an excuse. That's an easy way to remember it.
Speaker 1: I will remember that forever, now, thank you. Have you
Speaker 1: ever been in a hot air balloon?
Speaker 2: I have, and it actually surprises me that I have,
Speaker 2: because I'm not necessarily you know, I like things like
Speaker 2: roller coasters stuff like that, but I'm not necessarily like
Speaker 2: a thrill seeker or something like that. So we I
Speaker 2: guess about you know, fifteen twenty years ago, went out
Speaker 2: in Colorado over some mountains and it was just amazing,
Speaker 2: Like it was just beautiful, you know, traveling by hot
Speaker 2: air balloon over the mountains and then landing and you know,
Speaker 2: getting to just see what that whole process was like,
Speaker 2: how about you. I haven't.
Speaker 1: And the landing was smooth. I mean, they looked so
Speaker 1: beautiful and I've always wanted to do it. And then
Speaker 1: our friend Neely told us about one friend who like
Speaker 1: had a hot air balloon company and landed in the
Speaker 1: wrong place and like had this disastrous landing, and like,
Speaker 1: just how I think they'd lived their wrong crutches for
Speaker 1: a bit. It's just like dear ridiculous.
Speaker 2: Knows it was a little bumpy, but it never it
Speaker 2: was not as rough as I would have expected in landing.
Speaker 1: That's amazing. So for my next fact, I'm going to
Speaker 1: bring us back down to earth. And like many countries,
Speaker 1: Denmark has set ambitious targets for greenhouse gas reductions. Specifically,
Speaker 1: they've pledged to cut emissions by seventy percent nationwide by
Speaker 1: the year twenty thirty. Now, one of the main challenges
Speaker 1: they face is farming. Agricultural activity actually accounts for one
Speaker 1: quarter of the country's total emissions, and that figure really
Speaker 1: hasn't budged in the past decade. So to tackle this problem,
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty four, major Danish political parties, along with
Speaker 1: environmental organizations and agricultural industry groups, signed something called the
Speaker 1: Green Tripartite Agreement. It lays out a sweeping plan for
Speaker 1: land conservation, reforestation, green technology, and other practices that'll actually
Speaker 1: make farming more sustainable. Now Included in the plan is
Speaker 1: the world's first direct tax on agricultural emissions. Starting in
Speaker 1: twenty thirty, Danish farmers will have to pay one hundred
Speaker 1: and twenty kroner about eighteen dollars per ton of greenhouse gas,
Speaker 1: and the tax will rise to three hundred kroner or
Speaker 1: forty four dollars over the next five years. And while
Speaker 1: farm emissions can come from fertilizer use, heavy machinery and deforestation,
Speaker 1: another culprit is animals digestive systems.
Speaker 2: That's always a kid's favorite fact, right, But I feel
Speaker 2: like there's actually been a little bit corrected here because
Speaker 2: I remember I used to think it was just calfarts
Speaker 2: because people love to talk about that. But last year
Speaker 2: we did that episode about climate resilience, and we actually
Speaker 2: learned in that episode, if you remember, that ninety five
Speaker 2: percent of methane cows release actually comes from their burps,
Speaker 2: So it's important to get the difference.
Speaker 1: I know we've been focusing on the wrong end of
Speaker 1: the cow, but a climate think tank in Copenhagen actually
Speaker 1: crunch the numbers and found that the average Danish cow
Speaker 1: releases about six tons of greenhouse gas per year, so
Speaker 1: the tax would cost farmers seven hundred and twenty kroner
Speaker 1: are about one hundred eleven dollars per cow. Pig farmers
Speaker 1: would also be subject to the tax, but apparently pigs
Speaker 1: are not as gasy as cows.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm all for reducing emissions, but I don't
Speaker 2: really understand how this works. Like, I'm pretty sure you
Speaker 2: can't just tell cows to stop burping, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, obviously not. But this may incentivize farmers to diversify
Speaker 1: their businesses to include fewer cows and more plant crops.
Speaker 1: And also, when the tax kicks in for the first
Speaker 1: two years, it'll include an automatic sixty percent deduction, So
Speaker 1: in other words, farmers would only be taxed on forty
Speaker 1: percent of their to emissions, so if they take action
Speaker 1: now to reduce that carbon footprint, by the time the
Speaker 1: tax actually begins, they may not owe that much. In
Speaker 1: addition to that, an economist at the Danish Agriculture and
Speaker 1: Food Council recently told the UK based publication Carbon Brief
Speaker 1: that they're looking into feed additives that can actually reduce
Speaker 1: all those livestock admissions by twenty or thirty percent.
Speaker 2: Which, if I recall correctly, is exactly what we talked
Speaker 2: about in the cow Burp segment of our climate Resilience episode.
Speaker 1: You really remember that episode. I am not saying we
Speaker 1: deserve any credit here, but it does seem pretty obvious
Speaker 1: that we're on the same page as the Food Council.
Speaker 1: So if you guys need any research help or just
Speaker 1: want to get together for a creative brainstorm or call
Speaker 1: our hotline, you can do that. The number is in
Speaker 1: the show notes.
Speaker 2: I'm looking forward to hearing from Denmark on that very soon.
Speaker 2: But while we wait, here's actually another animal related tax story,
Speaker 2: and one that's a little closer to home here. So,
Speaker 2: did you know that in Maryland hunters can claim a
Speaker 2: tax credit for every deer they donate to charity.
Speaker 1: I did not know that. I didn't even know you
Speaker 1: could donate a deer to charity.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's actually lots of states that have programs where
Speaker 2: hunters can donate meat to local food banks and hunger nonprofits.
Speaker 2: But you know, the thing is, a food bank can't
Speaker 2: accept a whole deer carcass. They actually need the meat
Speaker 2: processed and packaged for distribution. Some hunters process their own deer,
Speaker 2: but most people will pay a butcher to do it.
Speaker 2: In other words, they're incurring a cost with their donation.
Speaker 2: So in twenty eighteen, Maryland passed a law that gave
Speaker 2: hunters a fifty dollars tax credit for donating a deer
Speaker 2: to a registered nonprofit, with a maximum credit of two
Speaker 2: hundred dollars or four deer in this case, and in
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four they raise the credit to seventy five
Speaker 2: dollars per year. South Carolina actually has a similar program,
Speaker 2: but in that state it's butchers and meat processors who
Speaker 2: can claim a tax credit if they break down deer
Speaker 2: for a charity. Now that means they can charge hunters
Speaker 2: a discounted rate for their services without taking a loss.
Speaker 2: Either way, the goal is the same, to make it
Speaker 2: easier for hunters to contribute ready to cook packages of
Speaker 2: wild game meat to food banks. And considering the average
Speaker 2: one hundred and thirty pound buck yields sixty two pounds
Speaker 2: of venison, those donations can actually feed a lot of people.
Speaker 1: That's pretty incredible. No, I remember a long time ago
Speaker 1: when we were at Mental Floss, we did a video
Speaker 1: at this archery place in Brooklyn, and when we went there,
Speaker 1: they had all these deerheads on the wall and I
Speaker 1: remember asking the guy there, why are there's so many
Speaker 1: trophies here? And he said, you know a lot of
Speaker 1: guys they're members at this club. They go hunting and
Speaker 1: they're single at that time, and then they get married
Speaker 1: and they have to donate their their stack heads somewhere,
Speaker 1: so they all end up here.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, that's hilarious. You could see that happening though.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's pretty amazing. So for our second to last fact,
Speaker 1: I'm taking us back in time, which is way back
Speaker 1: to sixteen ninety six. That is the year that England
Speaker 1: and Wales introduced the window tax, which assigned a tax
Speaker 1: based on how many windows your house had. Now, this
Speaker 1: was meant to be a temporary policy and it was
Speaker 1: created to solve this financial shortfall caused by a currency crisis,
Speaker 1: but it actually ended up staying on the books for
Speaker 1: more than one hundred and fifty years. Now here's how
Speaker 1: it worked. In the beginning, every house was charged a
Speaker 1: base rate of two shillings if you had fewer than
Speaker 1: ten windows, that's all you had to pay. If you
Speaker 1: had ten to twenty windows, you paid an additional four
Speaker 1: shillings for a total of six and if you had
Speaker 1: more than twenty windows, your total window tax was ten shillings.
Speaker 1: So this was meant to be a progressive tax, the
Speaker 1: idea being wealthy people would have bigger houses, therefore more windows.
Speaker 1: You know, there was also an element of convenience, right, like,
Speaker 1: tax assessors could actually calculate your window tax just by
Speaker 1: looking at your home. They didn't have to look inside,
Speaker 1: they didn't have to ask any questions, and so it
Speaker 1: was pretty easy for them to figure out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know one part about this, like you
Speaker 2: can't hide your windows and avoid the tax. It probably
Speaker 2: made that part easier.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean you said it yourself earlier, right, Like,
Speaker 1: the only guarantees in life are death taxes and tax chain.
Speaker 1: So people absolutely found ways around this window tax. Bribing
Speaker 1: tax collectors was one strategy, but some folks actually bricked
Speaker 1: up their windows or tried to camouflage them. This also
Speaker 1: led to architects designing houses with fewer windows, so, you know,
Speaker 1: commercial properties, service buildings, low income rentals were exempt from
Speaker 1: the window tax, so people would also do things like
Speaker 1: claim that a residential wing of their home was something else.
Speaker 2: I guess I should have figured people would find their
Speaker 2: way around this.
Speaker 1: And the thing is like, even when people were being truthful,
Speaker 1: they wanted to make sure tax surveyors weren't overcharging them,
Speaker 1: so some homeowners began labeling windows to indicate what they were.
Speaker 1: So even now you can still see buildings with painted
Speaker 1: signs that say things like dairy or pantry over a window.
Speaker 1: But over the years public antipathy towards the window tax grew.
Speaker 1: The tax itself increased and expanded to Scotland in the
Speaker 1: seventeen hundreds, and by the eighteen hundreds it had become
Speaker 1: a lightning rod for health performers, who said it penalize
Speaker 1: people for living in homes with sufficient air and light,
Speaker 1: which is true now. The government gave in and the
Speaker 1: window tax was finally repealed in eighteen fifty one, and
Speaker 1: within a few years there was a noticeable change in
Speaker 1: British architecture. Instead of these dimly lit rooms and closed
Speaker 1: off nooks, victorians preferred bright, open spaces, a sense of
Speaker 1: bringing the outdoors in, and of course plenty of windows all.
Speaker 2: Right, well, speaking of light and dark, that actually brings
Speaker 2: us to our final fact, which is even stranger than
Speaker 2: taxing windows. So in some parts of Italy's shopkeepers are
Speaker 2: charged to tax if their business has an awning or
Speaker 2: an umbrella that cash shade on the sidewalk. That's because
Speaker 2: of something called TOSAP, which translates to tax on the
Speaker 2: occupation of Public spaces. The whole idea is that if
Speaker 2: you have a commercial enterprise and you're taking up public
Speaker 2: space in order to run your business, you owe local
Speaker 2: authorities some money in return for that. So an example
Speaker 2: might be if you build a loading dock that covers
Speaker 2: part of a public sidewalk that's i walk belongs to
Speaker 2: the community, and you're hogging some of it so that
Speaker 2: your trucks can unload their crates.
Speaker 1: That seems reasonable. But an awning certainly isn't a loading dock.
Speaker 1: Like it doesn't get in people's ways because it's overhead.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I get that it doesn't get in
Speaker 2: people's way, but it does get in the sun's way,
Speaker 2: like it casts the shadows, so it is definitely having
Speaker 2: an impact on that space.
Speaker 1: But I mean, that's the whole point of an awning,
Speaker 1: right it is.
Speaker 2: I know this was going to upset you so much,
Speaker 2: but I mean, let's think about this from the point
Speaker 2: of view of the Italian bureaucracy.
Speaker 1: You are always thinking about. That's all I think of
Speaker 1: the view of the Italian.
Speaker 2: That's sort of my main point of view, really, and
Speaker 2: I've actually learned is way more tangled than a plate
Speaker 2: of linguini. And so everyone is entitled to feel the
Speaker 2: sun on their face, right, Like those anti window tax
Speaker 2: activists in England said, light and air is good for
Speaker 2: all of us. And if your awning is casting shade
Speaker 2: on the sidewalk, you're robbing me of my precious seconds
Speaker 2: of sun exposure when I walk past your business. So
Speaker 2: you get taxed.
Speaker 1: I like that. I mean, I don't buy it, but
Speaker 1: I like your justification for it.
Speaker 2: What if this became just like the thing that really
Speaker 2: drove has finally split us apart, just that the tax
Speaker 2: on this. But yeah, I actually didn't find any evidence
Speaker 2: that ordinary Italians were upset about awning shadows. But it
Speaker 2: may be that's just a very strict bureaucratic interpretation of
Speaker 2: the toe SAP law. And I actually read a twenty
Speaker 2: fifteen interview with a guy who owned a grocery store
Speaker 2: in the northeastern region of Veneto, and so he installed
Speaker 2: an awning in front of his shop to protect produce
Speaker 2: from the sun. And then one day out of the blue,
Speaker 2: he received a tax bill for thirty four euros. Now,
Speaker 2: apparently the shadow tax is based on the area of
Speaker 2: each awning, and in this guy's case, his awning was
Speaker 2: four square meters. His local municipality charged him about eight
Speaker 2: point four euros per square meter. But actually, here's some
Speaker 2: good news. The tide may be changing. So just last
Speaker 2: year that the town of Isernia, southern Italy, they abolish
Speaker 2: the local shade tex after residents complained. So I didn't
Speaker 2: I didn't want to spoil it for you earlier, Mango,
Speaker 2: But there is some progress here.
Speaker 1: It's an emotional roller coaster, but I'm glad things ahead
Speaker 1: in the right direction. Uh. And because that is that
Speaker 1: is certainly the strangest tax story I've heard today. I
Speaker 1: think you deserve the trophy.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know if that one was
Speaker 2: that grave, but I appreciate it. I'd actually like to
Speaker 2: share this with all the brave Italian awning owners who
Speaker 2: are standing strong in the shade despite this incredibly silly tax.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know all of them appreciate it, and we'll
Speaker 1: be calling in later. So before you go, remember you
Speaker 1: can follow us on Instagram and Blue Sky. We're at
Speaker 1: part Time Genius and if you have a question or
Speaker 1: idea for the show, please do give us a call
Speaker 1: at three oh two four oh five five nine two five.
Speaker 1: That's three oh two four oh five five nine two five,
Speaker 1: or you can send us an email at high Geniuses
Speaker 1: at gmail. That's Hi Geniuses at gmail dot com. That
Speaker 1: does it for today's episode. We will be back next
Speaker 1: week with another brand new show. But in the meantime,
Speaker 1: from Will, Gabe, Dylan, Mary, and myself, thank you so
Speaker 1: much for listening. Part Time Genius is a production of
Speaker 1: Kaleidoscope and iHeartRadio. It is hosted by my good ple
Speaker 1: Will Pearson, who I've known for almost three decades now.
Speaker 1: That is insane to me. I'm the utter co host,
Speaker 1: Mangeshatikular aka Mango. Our producer is Mary Phillips Sandy. She's
Speaker 1: actually a super producer. I'm going to fix that in post.
Speaker 1: Our writer is Gabe Lucier, who I've also known for
Speaker 1: like a decade at this point, maybe more. Dylan Fagan
Speaker 1: is in the booth. He is always dressed up, always
Speaker 1: cheering us on, and always ready to hit record and
Speaker 1: then mix the show after he does a great job.
Speaker 1: I also want to shout out the executive producers from
Speaker 1: iHeart my good pals Katrina and Norvel and Ali Perry.
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Speaker 1: Tune in wherever you listen to your favorite shows. That's
Speaker 1: it from us here at Part Time Genius. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much for listening.