WEBVTT - Turkey’s Drone War Against the Rojava Revolution 0:00:01.760 --> 0:00:03.840 Also media. 0:00:05.040 --> 0:00:09.160 Hello everyone, it's me today James, and I'm joined by 0:00:09.400 --> 0:00:13.280 Benevan from the YPJ Information Authors, and we're going to 0:00:13.320 --> 0:00:19.919 discuss today and chiefly that the Turkish bombing campaign against 0:00:20.000 --> 0:00:21.919 it which has been happening in the last few weeks 0:00:22.360 --> 0:00:24.360 and the last few months and the last few years. 0:00:24.560 --> 0:00:27.280 So we wanted to set that in context for you. 0:00:27.480 --> 0:00:30.520 And everyone's attention has been very much focused on other conflicts, 0:00:30.520 --> 0:00:33.519 but that doesn't mean that this one isn't important, and 0:00:33.600 --> 0:00:35.720 it's one that obviously listeners will be familiar with, so 0:00:35.760 --> 0:00:38.320 we wanted to bring you an update on that. Welcome, 0:00:39.000 --> 0:00:43.159 very vun Hello, thank you, Yeah, you're welcome. 0:00:43.479 --> 0:00:46.000 Okay, happy to be here today. Good. 0:00:46.640 --> 0:00:49.960 Let's start by, I think, just in case people need 0:00:50.000 --> 0:00:52.360 a refresher or they haven't listened to some of the 0:00:52.440 --> 0:00:58.959 other stuff, talk about what's happening in and why they 0:00:59.040 --> 0:01:03.160 I guess why. It's why it's unique and what makes 0:01:03.200 --> 0:01:03.720 it special. 0:01:04.560 --> 0:01:08.240 Okay, So, actually right now in Java, for more than 0:01:08.920 --> 0:01:13.559 ten years there's a revolution happening. I think most people 0:01:13.640 --> 0:01:16.560 heard that. For some twenty eleven and so on, there 0:01:16.640 --> 0:01:19.840 was like something called the Arab string. But actually in 0:01:19.880 --> 0:01:23.119 the same time in this region in northern east Syria 0:01:23.200 --> 0:01:27.560 actually also called like in the northern eastern part of Syria, 0:01:27.600 --> 0:01:32.280 there's a region called Java, which is like a big 0:01:32.319 --> 0:01:36.440 part of Kurtish population. There's also Christian population like Assyria, 0:01:36.480 --> 0:01:40.319 and Arminian population and also Arab population. Like it's a 0:01:40.480 --> 0:01:45.480 very colorful region, you can say. So in this region 0:01:45.640 --> 0:01:49.520 twenty eleven, in this time and then twenty twelve, a 0:01:49.560 --> 0:01:55.680 revolution started, which is actually based on a long term 0:01:55.960 --> 0:01:59.520 struggle of the Kurdish movement and its experiences. And the 0:01:59.520 --> 0:02:04.160 revolution was like mostly based on the idea to gain 0:02:04.600 --> 0:02:11.480 democratic autonomy and today gain like democratic self administration. Why 0:02:11.960 --> 0:02:15.160 because like the Syrian regime on the one hand was 0:02:15.160 --> 0:02:19.960 like very oppressive towards the Kurdish people and on the 0:02:20.000 --> 0:02:24.840 other hand, like it was like out topered Parian regime. 0:02:24.960 --> 0:02:28.480 So there was like this wish to create something different, 0:02:29.560 --> 0:02:33.799 which was actually created here in the region in Java. Yeah, 0:02:34.520 --> 0:02:38.360 so I think this we can say at first, like 0:02:38.440 --> 0:02:43.640 what happened was that relusion started and until today it's continuing. 0:02:43.760 --> 0:02:48.280 Like it's a very like basic change of people's life. 0:02:48.280 --> 0:02:52.280 We can say that happened here like democratic administration in 0:02:52.320 --> 0:02:54.760 all areas of life, and also like, for example, a 0:02:54.800 --> 0:03:00.400 great deal of a women's organization to achieve also women's 0:03:00.440 --> 0:03:04.720 So the solutions like based on these principles of democratic 0:03:05.000 --> 0:03:10.040 self administration, of women's freedom, and also of ecologies. 0:03:11.320 --> 0:03:13.880 Yeah, perhaps you can explain people who aren't familiar a 0:03:13.919 --> 0:03:16.079 little bit more about the women's revolution, because I think 0:03:16.120 --> 0:03:20.600 that is something that that's extremely unique and that people 0:03:21.240 --> 0:03:23.519 might not have like if they've heard of it, perhaps 0:03:23.520 --> 0:03:26.200 they haven't really you know, I think the mainstream press 0:03:26.200 --> 0:03:28.760 doesn't covered particularly well. So if you could explain, like 0:03:28.800 --> 0:03:32.239 maybe something about the co chair system or the relationship 0:03:32.320 --> 0:03:35.760 between yourselves and the yepigae and how that works. 0:03:36.520 --> 0:03:39.640 Yeah. So actually I was just something like speaking about 0:03:39.640 --> 0:03:42.360 the like when the revolution was happening, so I from 0:03:42.480 --> 0:03:45.960 beginning online women also took place in it, like which 0:03:46.040 --> 0:03:48.760 was already occasion the code of freedom movement in general, 0:03:48.840 --> 0:03:53.080 is like that woman was like equally were equally taking 0:03:53.120 --> 0:03:57.960 part in it and also always founded their own organizations, 0:03:58.480 --> 0:04:03.000 like not like substitute to a general organization or something 0:04:03.040 --> 0:04:05.520 like this, but actually like their own organization that at 0:04:05.560 --> 0:04:10.240 the same time cooperate with the general organization. So there 0:04:10.280 --> 0:04:13.680 was already this principle of women's autonomy. So this was 0:04:13.720 --> 0:04:19.640 also adopted in Rehervoir. So in all areas which also 0:04:19.680 --> 0:04:25.440 includes like political areas, areas of daily life, but also 0:04:25.480 --> 0:04:30.760 military fields, women organized. So actually in the beginning of 0:04:30.800 --> 0:04:35.080 the solution, they were like the society's kind of self 0:04:35.160 --> 0:04:39.400 defense forces building us and in the beginning there were 0:04:39.440 --> 0:04:42.920 already women in it. And then there was also the 0:04:42.920 --> 0:04:48.240 foundation of hitep Gay like the people's Defense forces. But 0:04:49.200 --> 0:04:53.520 after this also the White Pgay women's Protection units were founded. 0:04:54.600 --> 0:05:02.680 So actually it's like a fully autonomous women's units that 0:05:02.839 --> 0:05:06.280 take care of defending their homeland on the one hand, 0:05:06.320 --> 0:05:09.080 but on the other hand, also made like a great 0:05:09.440 --> 0:05:12.159 deal of change in the society in the daily life 0:05:12.200 --> 0:05:15.120 of women because in the region that was before like 0:05:16.080 --> 0:05:21.599 maybe to somebody like feudal or like because of the 0:05:21.640 --> 0:05:25.360 authoria tennestry in the state, like there was no protection 0:05:25.520 --> 0:05:30.400 for women's rights or something like this, and for example, 0:05:30.400 --> 0:05:34.200 there was like the traditions of marrying a woman at 0:05:34.240 --> 0:05:36.960 a young age or something like this. This was actually 0:05:37.120 --> 0:05:41.000 changed by this woman's polution, Like the everyday life of 0:05:41.160 --> 0:05:44.320 women was a change and is still changing, like it's 0:05:44.320 --> 0:05:49.920 still a struggle because it meets changing the society in general. Yeah, 0:05:50.720 --> 0:05:54.040 so there's like in every area of life today there's 0:05:54.080 --> 0:05:59.520 like autonomous women's organization and the existing which makes its 0:05:59.560 --> 0:06:03.839 with the main the most like profound woman's solution that 0:06:03.960 --> 0:06:07.520 on to now is happening, I think. So it's like 0:06:07.640 --> 0:06:11.480 really important like samplers for a woman. Everyone in the. 0:06:11.400 --> 0:06:15.679 Work, Yeah, very much, and it is a genuinely profound change. 0:06:15.720 --> 0:06:18.160 Having spent a little bit of time there earlier this year, 0:06:18.680 --> 0:06:21.480 that it's very notable that you spent a lot of 0:06:21.520 --> 0:06:23.440 time in that part of the world, how different things are. 0:06:24.320 --> 0:06:28.160 And then perhaps we should talk about the battle against 0:06:28.920 --> 0:06:31.640 the so called Samic state or dasher Isis or whatever 0:06:31.680 --> 0:06:36.560 you want to call it. In the role that THEPGPJ 0:06:36.839 --> 0:06:41.320 and SDF played in that, I can explain a little 0:06:41.320 --> 0:06:44.760 about about that fight and the fighting that happened. And 0:06:44.800 --> 0:06:48.279 also like the tremendous number of people who died fighting 0:06:48.720 --> 0:06:51.960 or were martyred in the language it is used by 0:06:51.960 --> 0:06:53.600 the revolution about them. 0:06:54.320 --> 0:06:59.560 So like, uh, in general, I think everyone in the 0:06:59.600 --> 0:07:02.800 work for listen to the name of the White jas 0:07:02.880 --> 0:07:07.720 Woman's Protection Units and the relationship to ISIS. But actually 0:07:07.720 --> 0:07:11.080 from the beginning on they fought like against this kind 0:07:11.120 --> 0:07:16.120 of let's say like different like fundamentalists or mercenary groups 0:07:16.120 --> 0:07:22.600 that were existing in the region, and when Isis was 0:07:22.600 --> 0:07:29.320 coming up, Like the biggest almost known battle that actually 0:07:29.360 --> 0:07:31.880 the world for the first time really saw was the 0:07:31.920 --> 0:07:38.560 Battle for Kobanis where for example, the hypj with like 0:07:38.760 --> 0:07:45.720 very very limited possibilities and the fought against the Isis 0:07:45.800 --> 0:07:51.240 and actually succeeded like to defeat iss and to defend 0:07:51.240 --> 0:07:53.600 the city of Kobani, which was kind of like a 0:07:53.640 --> 0:07:57.240 breaking point where things started to turn around. Or we 0:07:57.360 --> 0:08:00.760 have also had the point where forks are the Shanngha 0:08:01.000 --> 0:08:03.360 was attacked, which is like in south post de Son, 0:08:03.440 --> 0:08:06.720 it's not like in the era region, it's not even 0:08:06.720 --> 0:08:10.200 in the same region. But the YPA also played like 0:08:10.280 --> 0:08:15.240 the role in opening a corridor for the people who 0:08:15.280 --> 0:08:18.600 tried to flee for the Yuzd people who like are 0:08:18.600 --> 0:08:23.840 people who have faced like many genocides in history, and 0:08:23.920 --> 0:08:27.720 in order to save them from the genocide of Isis, 0:08:28.520 --> 0:08:32.360 the RPJA opened a corridor to help them to flee. 0:08:32.559 --> 0:08:36.560 So and there are like many stories or like in 0:08:36.600 --> 0:08:41.640 the end, the liberation of the city of Racca, which 0:08:41.720 --> 0:08:44.800 was kind of known like as the center of the ISIS, 0:08:44.840 --> 0:08:49.120 which also we can say like the Women's Force played 0:08:49.200 --> 0:08:54.200 like a junior rein God this. So there are many 0:08:54.240 --> 0:08:59.240 examples where we can say, like how deciding for examples 0:08:59.559 --> 0:09:03.440 as of the Vibea was for the defeat of ISIS. 0:09:03.480 --> 0:09:06.440 And I think on the other hand, we also have 0:09:06.480 --> 0:09:08.800 to say that it is not completely defeated, because it 0:09:08.880 --> 0:09:15.280 seemed like some support from outside structures, like from Turkey, 0:09:15.400 --> 0:09:21.199 so there are still some like sales or form. There 0:09:21.200 --> 0:09:24.000 are a lot of details detainees like before that was 0:09:24.040 --> 0:09:29.040 happening at a try to break out from the detention 0:09:29.160 --> 0:09:32.520 centers in twenty twenty two, So it's not like it's 0:09:32.559 --> 0:09:37.160 completely vanished from the earth, but the actual defeat was 0:09:37.320 --> 0:09:39.920 like reached by the JAP. 0:09:40.320 --> 0:09:45.560 For Yeah, I think it's very important too. Like you 0:09:45.559 --> 0:09:49.800 spoke about those like incarcerated ice form RIIS fighters right 0:09:50.080 --> 0:09:52.880 and their attempt to break out. I think that's maybe 0:09:53.200 --> 0:09:56.120 a good chance for us to talk about like some 0:09:56.200 --> 0:10:01.559 other former risis fighters and like guarding in I think 0:10:01.600 --> 0:10:05.080 it was called Turkey called Operation peace Spring. I think right, 0:10:05.160 --> 0:10:10.640 like the these these Turkish incursions into uh into into Rojaba, 0:10:10.960 --> 0:10:17.400 into like and and into like Syrian territory, can you 0:10:17.440 --> 0:10:20.720 explain a little bit about like how I guess this 0:10:20.760 --> 0:10:22.880 will get us to the modern day and and the bombing, 0:10:23.000 --> 0:10:27.520 but like perhaps you can explain how this started. Obviously 0:10:27.559 --> 0:10:30.320 Turkey has been opposed to the Kurdish freedom movement since 0:10:30.320 --> 0:10:33.600 its inception, right since the very beginning and in the 0:10:33.920 --> 0:10:38.360 last century. But preps, you could explain like this series 0:10:38.400 --> 0:10:42.480 of ongoing Turkish aggressions against what's happening in Java now 0:10:42.679 --> 0:10:46.080 and like how that began and how that's manifested itself 0:10:46.679 --> 0:10:47.600 over the years. 0:10:48.720 --> 0:10:54.240 Oh yes, like after ISOs was defeated to some degree, 0:10:54.280 --> 0:11:00.400 actually Turkey for self started occupation attacks like and twenty 0:11:00.480 --> 0:11:06.720 eighteen nineteen and started the occupation was first against Afrine 0:11:06.760 --> 0:11:09.840 and then against tel Khania and Guido Speir, which are 0:11:09.880 --> 0:11:13.840 all like very important regions of Bova that are like 0:11:14.760 --> 0:11:19.400 directly next to the Turkish border, like you see, like 0:11:19.640 --> 0:11:23.800 directly in between Syria and the Turkey like next to 0:11:23.840 --> 0:11:30.280 the Turkish borders. So they directly attacked these cities next 0:11:30.280 --> 0:11:33.880 to the border, which actually most of our cities are 0:11:33.920 --> 0:11:40.240 directly next to the border, and they occupied them. Yeah, 0:11:40.440 --> 0:11:42.400 I think that's important to understand like a little bit 0:11:42.760 --> 0:11:47.640 because actually there are took plans to occupy, occupy like 0:11:49.440 --> 0:11:52.440 the region along the border, not only the cities that 0:11:52.480 --> 0:11:55.960 they occupied. Until now, this is a very very violent 0:11:56.120 --> 0:12:00.320 war with using aircraft and so on. Like in the 0:12:00.400 --> 0:12:05.880 last years, uh Tooki very much invested in two drone 0:12:06.080 --> 0:12:10.920 technology and so on, and they used also chemical weapons 0:12:10.960 --> 0:12:16.920 like very famous in two nineteen the video of a 0:12:16.960 --> 0:12:19.880 young child the name Mohammad went around the world that 0:12:20.679 --> 0:12:27.240 like was like born by phosphorus in Secania in the 0:12:27.280 --> 0:12:31.520 occupation attack. So like actually it's a like a war 0:12:31.600 --> 0:12:35.199 that is smallest sleep fought also with the most like 0:12:35.320 --> 0:12:39.079 gutty yeah methods that took his waging around the region. 0:12:39.640 --> 0:12:43.040 And after this, like we can't say like after Secane 0:12:43.360 --> 0:12:50.240 was occupied, Tooki actually continued to attack with a war 0:12:50.360 --> 0:12:53.520 that you cannot say like at this time it starts 0:12:53.559 --> 0:12:57.760 and in this time and it's more like continuous attacks. 0:12:57.880 --> 0:13:00.880 So on the one hand, like some areas are always 0:13:01.920 --> 0:13:05.439 getting bombed in the last years, like for examples like 0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:09.240 artillery shelling and one like a share bar next to 0:13:09.440 --> 0:13:13.240 Arthleene or iron Eesa or the tam so like the 0:13:13.360 --> 0:13:17.520 areas that are close to the occupied areas were now 0:13:17.679 --> 0:13:22.960 Turkey and mercenary forces are stations that constantly attacked more 0:13:23.080 --> 0:13:26.199 or less the regions, but also with a drone war 0:13:26.679 --> 0:13:31.520 like the first I think, very like clear example of 0:13:31.600 --> 0:13:36.679 what was the strategy like in the last years was 0:13:36.760 --> 0:13:41.480 on the twenty third June two down twenty when Turkey 0:13:41.800 --> 0:13:47.120 killed three women of conguers the women's movement, like the 0:13:47.840 --> 0:13:53.840 civil women's movement in Kobani in the village, which were 0:13:53.920 --> 0:13:56.120 all like two of them were like in the leadership 0:13:56.200 --> 0:13:59.640 of the women's movement and one was just like a 0:13:59.760 --> 0:14:02.160 man well, and they were sitting in the garden and 0:14:02.320 --> 0:14:07.480 they were talking and at this time like a Turk 0:14:07.480 --> 0:14:12.079 a shtrongest strike and they all lost their lives. So 0:14:12.880 --> 0:14:15.760 like a lot of these kinds of attacks happened after this, 0:14:16.760 --> 0:14:22.600 like against like let's say, like civil leaders of society, 0:14:23.360 --> 0:14:28.880 like politicians, normal people. Also like on the twenty fifth 0:14:28.960 --> 0:14:33.520 of December, actually also on Christmas in twenty twenty one, 0:14:35.040 --> 0:14:41.040 five five chill like young people like youth from the 0:14:41.120 --> 0:14:46.720 youth movement were killed in Kobani also like they're just 0:14:46.800 --> 0:14:48.880 when they were sitting in the garden like members of 0:14:48.960 --> 0:14:53.000 the Youth center, like I took a stone stock three 0:14:53.040 --> 0:14:58.560 of them like a young girls and this continued or 0:14:58.640 --> 0:15:02.880 also we can say like leaders of Fox suble Ypja. 0:15:03.040 --> 0:15:08.760 Also like on the twenty second of July last year, 0:15:09.480 --> 0:15:13.960 there was a conference happening for celebrating ten years of 0:15:14.040 --> 0:15:18.320 women's revolution in Rojaha, and just on the same day, 0:15:19.120 --> 0:15:24.840 Turkey targeted the car of the Rye PJ members. One 0:15:24.880 --> 0:15:28.640 of them was Jian Toldan, who also spoke on the 0:15:28.720 --> 0:15:32.720 same day on the conference. Actually it's quite clear what 0:15:33.080 --> 0:15:39.240 Turki actually once they want to like destroy the revolution 0:15:39.400 --> 0:15:43.920 that's happening in Rushava, like the women's revolution and in general, 0:15:44.080 --> 0:15:46.720 like this change that is happening. They want to create 0:15:46.920 --> 0:15:52.160 like the sphere to stay away to way to the 0:15:52.360 --> 0:15:56.800 Turkish occupation forces. And they're using a lot of violence. 0:15:57.000 --> 0:15:59.280 Like also in the occupied areas, like the people are 0:15:59.360 --> 0:16:02.480 right now, I think that I cannot speak their language. 0:16:03.360 --> 0:16:08.200 They have to fear. Sometimes they cannot close the house doors. 0:16:08.320 --> 0:16:14.120 Sometimes people get like abductor like without anyone knowing why 0:16:14.280 --> 0:16:16.680 or where's they go as I go to the persons 0:16:16.720 --> 0:16:18.720 that be in a prison or would I be fortshot 0:16:18.840 --> 0:16:24.840 or like a very kind of oppressive region. Yeah, now 0:16:25.000 --> 0:16:27.280 in the occupied areas. 0:16:27.480 --> 0:16:30.960 Yeah, and those are people who like I've met when 0:16:31.080 --> 0:16:33.320 when they come here, right, people who have lost Like 0:16:33.440 --> 0:16:36.680 I spoke to a guy, a mayor a couple of 0:16:36.720 --> 0:16:39.360 weeks ago. You know, his father had been killed, his 0:16:39.520 --> 0:16:42.480 uncle had been killed, and like he was like what 0:16:42.560 --> 0:16:44.240 should he should? I should I wait to be like 0:16:44.400 --> 0:16:46.960 the last person in my family and then who gets 0:16:47.040 --> 0:16:51.000 killed or like it's it's very the conditions for those 0:16:51.080 --> 0:16:55.720 people in the Turkish occupied parts of northern Kurdistan are very, 0:16:55.840 --> 0:16:59.880 very difficult and oppressive. And I think, like, just to 0:17:00.040 --> 0:17:02.560 build off what you said, like, it's important that people 0:17:02.680 --> 0:17:06.440 realize that these killing of especially like people in the 0:17:06.480 --> 0:17:11.680 Women's Revolution, but also you know, people in in the 0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:18.520 Rajava revolution. More generally, it's not Drone strikes are extremely targeted, right, 0:17:19.280 --> 0:17:23.040 Like they can follow a car from an event and 0:17:23.200 --> 0:17:26.800 strike it. Like it's these kind of these things are 0:17:26.840 --> 0:17:30.280 not it's not like they're it's not like artillery or mortars. 0:17:30.320 --> 0:17:32.119 It's not like you're just sending it into an area. 0:17:32.280 --> 0:17:35.360 Like they're extremely targeted to an individual or a group 0:17:35.440 --> 0:17:39.560 of individuals rather than you know, random attack. So like 0:17:39.640 --> 0:17:53.800 this is a distinct choice that's being made. Well, let's 0:17:53.840 --> 0:17:56.199 talk about the most recent bombings because I think there 0:17:56.200 --> 0:18:00.119 were some particularly egregious ones, even by the standard of 0:18:01.119 --> 0:18:04.479 this campaign, which has been pretty egradition in the beginning. 0:18:04.600 --> 0:18:10.480 But December, around the week of Christmas this year, just 0:18:10.520 --> 0:18:12.200 to give people a time to the period, there was 0:18:12.280 --> 0:18:16.240 a bombings of a if I'm not wrong, a printing press, 0:18:17.080 --> 0:18:19.800 a dialysis facility, is that right? 0:18:21.119 --> 0:18:24.000 Yeah? Yeah, we actually there was. There was also another 0:18:24.520 --> 0:18:27.639 like not hospital, like the hospital, let's say like a 0:18:27.720 --> 0:18:30.879 medical point. Also Corbani where doctors was out borders. I 0:18:30.920 --> 0:18:33.119 think it's like kind of a known and Jose they 0:18:33.119 --> 0:18:36.840 were also working there at the oxygen center also, so 0:18:37.040 --> 0:18:41.600 like medical places, there were like normal factories of of 0:18:42.240 --> 0:18:46.760 food production like you said the printing house. There were 0:18:46.840 --> 0:18:52.359 many places like this, like of daily infrastructure that were 0:18:52.440 --> 0:18:56.280 targeted like before, already in October infrastructure was targeted. And 0:18:56.440 --> 0:18:59.880 also last year there was attack Disis and every time 0:19:00.200 --> 0:19:03.159 at least ten civilians got killed, like in all of 0:19:03.320 --> 0:19:05.760 these attacks. So now I think the overall number just 0:19:05.840 --> 0:19:08.320 of these three ways of attacks is already like search 0:19:08.440 --> 0:19:14.000 one killed civilians, so like maybe dawn strike are very targeted, 0:19:14.119 --> 0:19:18.040 but it's not like Turki doesn't want to kill civilians 0:19:18.200 --> 0:19:21.639 or takes care not to kill civilians, like already in 0:19:21.800 --> 0:19:25.159 the attacks of last year, there was an examples of 0:19:25.320 --> 0:19:28.560 double tap attacks for example, which I actually be illegal. 0:19:29.680 --> 0:19:31.800 So I think it's very important to say, like also 0:19:31.880 --> 0:19:36.560 the targeting of medical points of medical infrastructure, that what 0:19:36.800 --> 0:19:41.080 Turkey is doing is not according to international law, Like 0:19:41.600 --> 0:19:45.800 that's not the case, Like Turki is kind of acting 0:19:46.000 --> 0:19:51.760 like however advanced targeting civilians, creating like fear and also 0:19:51.920 --> 0:19:56.720 like in a region that is already poor, Johnny, you 0:19:56.880 --> 0:20:00.560 have to say, like the possibilities that have been created, 0:20:00.680 --> 0:20:05.840 like like for daily needs and so on, for supplies 0:20:05.880 --> 0:20:11.840 of electricity of like heating fuels and so on for 0:20:12.000 --> 0:20:16.080 your house, they are very affected like this right now, 0:20:16.640 --> 0:20:19.280 so like in general, there's like a big shortcoming of 0:20:19.440 --> 0:20:23.840 everything right now and whatever, and just because of these attacks. 0:20:24.400 --> 0:20:27.920 So this is actually affecting everyone. And on the other hand, 0:20:27.960 --> 0:20:30.560 took it to try to create like this feel like 0:20:30.720 --> 0:20:34.840 there's just some wave of attack and just targeting everywhere, 0:20:34.960 --> 0:20:40.600 so they want to displace actually the population and also 0:20:40.720 --> 0:20:44.960 to commit like the politics also to state, especially against 0:20:44.960 --> 0:20:47.960 Scwritish people and also against the Christians, is very much 0:20:48.720 --> 0:20:55.040 like potentially like genocidal politics, like it's not not like 0:20:55.160 --> 0:20:59.120 a limited attack or something like this, Like we don't 0:20:59.200 --> 0:20:59.600 think so. 0:21:00.480 --> 0:21:02.600 Yeah, no, it's not a And like you said, they're 0:21:02.720 --> 0:21:05.600 very very much unafraid of killing civilians in the process. 0:21:05.680 --> 0:21:08.720 Like I spoke to a mother whose fifteen year old 0:21:08.840 --> 0:21:12.120 son was killed in a drone strike. I don't think 0:21:12.560 --> 0:21:14.359 it's very hard to make an argument the fifteen year 0:21:14.359 --> 0:21:16.600 old son was doing anything apart from being a fifteen 0:21:16.680 --> 0:21:19.200 year old kid. You know, it's not like this person 0:21:19.320 --> 0:21:21.640 is a legitimate military target. It was a kid who 0:21:21.720 --> 0:21:25.400 played goalkeeper on his local football team. And these double 0:21:25.480 --> 0:21:27.200 tap attacks, Like if people aren't familiar with the double 0:21:27.240 --> 0:21:31.159 tap attack, it's when an attack happened, people go to 0:21:31.240 --> 0:21:33.639 the site of the attack to render aid, right an 0:21:33.640 --> 0:21:37.880 ambulance or baptis bystanders rendering aid or other military personnel 0:21:37.880 --> 0:21:42.159 rendering aid, and then a second attack happened at the 0:21:42.200 --> 0:21:45.600 same place to then attack the people who are rendering aid. 0:21:46.480 --> 0:21:49.560 So you spoke a little bit about like how they're 0:21:49.600 --> 0:21:53.119 trying to attack the whole project and not just individuals. 0:21:54.040 --> 0:21:57.920 I wonder like the drone strikes do have like a 0:21:59.080 --> 0:22:01.359 they change the way they have to be done right, 0:22:01.480 --> 0:22:06.280 like it's it's things become unsafe, like any way you 0:22:06.320 --> 0:22:09.160 can see the sky, right, like having a large gathering, 0:22:09.720 --> 0:22:15.119 or certainly for people who are of more like higher status, 0:22:16.880 --> 0:22:21.040 it's it's dangerous for them to be out and about, 0:22:21.200 --> 0:22:22.560 right Is that fair to say? 0:22:23.920 --> 0:22:26.760 Yeah? I mean on some level, for sure the dangerous. 0:22:26.800 --> 0:22:29.760 But on the other hand, you cannot always be afraid. 0:22:29.960 --> 0:22:34.800 Like that's like really the reality. Like for example, now, 0:22:35.080 --> 0:22:38.639 because these places were targeted, for example, the infrastructure that 0:22:38.760 --> 0:22:42.600 you need for your life, people actually started to stand 0:22:42.760 --> 0:22:46.440 like next to the electricity center to say, like, if 0:22:46.480 --> 0:22:50.520 we're all here, then they cannot target it. Wow, for 0:22:50.640 --> 0:22:54.440 sure is dangerous as you see, like the they can they. 0:22:55.840 --> 0:22:59.040 Yeah, because they've killed a lot of civilians. As you say, 0:22:59.320 --> 0:23:04.200 that's a very brain yes, yeah, and again I think 0:23:04.200 --> 0:23:06.040 I think maybe we should explain actually so that it 0:23:06.119 --> 0:23:08.480 gets very cold in this part of the world in 0:23:08.520 --> 0:23:11.720 the winter, because perhaps people will associate this part of 0:23:11.760 --> 0:23:15.639 the world with like the heat and hot chambers. But 0:23:15.720 --> 0:23:18.960 like you, you have very cold winters, especially in the mountains. 0:23:18.600 --> 0:23:24.160 Right, Yeah, I mean it's like all more or less flat, 0:23:25.119 --> 0:23:28.159 like it's not so cold, but still it gets like 0:23:28.400 --> 0:23:33.320 under zero degrees, like for sure, you needs the need 0:23:33.480 --> 0:23:35.879 like your house to be warm and so on, like 0:23:36.200 --> 0:23:38.600 just to take care of basic needs. You need your 0:23:38.680 --> 0:23:42.560 car to drive somewhere maybe sometimes at least like some 0:23:42.720 --> 0:23:46.400 people need it for their work or like this. There's 0:23:46.440 --> 0:23:49.919 a lot of basic needs that don't work if if 0:23:50.000 --> 0:23:52.000 all the infrastructure gets stored. 0:23:52.520 --> 0:23:56.520 Yeah. Yeah, And I believe if I'm right in saying, 0:23:56.600 --> 0:23:59.240 this's the one person already passed away because it couldn't 0:23:59.359 --> 0:24:03.480 get directs the dialysis center that was bombed, Is that right. 0:24:04.640 --> 0:24:07.920 Yes, So as I said that one passed away, afterwards 0:24:07.960 --> 0:24:13.720 they brought like a like emergency wise dialogs machine, yeah, 0:24:13.760 --> 0:24:16.359 which I think is very good for the sick people. 0:24:16.480 --> 0:24:18.879 But I'm not sure because also if you don't have 0:24:19.040 --> 0:24:21.959 like a substitute of something happens like only one machine, 0:24:22.119 --> 0:24:24.640 I'm not sure like how much it will actually take 0:24:24.720 --> 0:24:27.840 care of the needs of people. Because I said it 0:24:28.040 --> 0:24:31.960 was like seventy or eighty six people who were going 0:24:32.040 --> 0:24:33.280 to the center, so it's not. 0:24:33.560 --> 0:24:37.800 You yeah, and like I didn't think, Yeah, I mean, 0:24:37.840 --> 0:24:40.080 it's certainly not as good as having a proper center, right, Like, 0:24:40.160 --> 0:24:42.920 and there's no reason there's no world in which a 0:24:43.000 --> 0:24:48.280 dialysis center is a legitimate target or printing press, right, 0:24:48.359 --> 0:24:50.520 Like I think that that maybe points to what you're saying, 0:24:50.720 --> 0:24:54.800 like if you're printing books about something, sharing knowledge about something, 0:24:55.600 --> 0:24:58.600 and like perhaps one thing I think you were saying, 0:24:58.800 --> 0:25:00.920 is it right that it to textbooks. 0:25:02.320 --> 0:25:05.359 I think it was like also printing textbook, Okay, like 0:25:05.480 --> 0:25:08.640 it was printing everything, so it's also printing textbooks. Yes, 0:25:08.840 --> 0:25:11.160 like also was printing textbook. 0:25:11.560 --> 0:25:13.680 Yeah, And we should point out that, like, you know, 0:25:13.920 --> 0:25:16.640 I speak to Kurdish people almost every day when I'm 0:25:16.640 --> 0:25:20.680 at the border, and they many of them don't read 0:25:20.760 --> 0:25:23.960 and write in Kurdish because in Turkey that's not taught 0:25:23.960 --> 0:25:25.720 in schools, right, they don't have a chance to learn, 0:25:26.920 --> 0:25:30.679 and and so like having those textbooks, having that knowledge, 0:25:30.880 --> 0:25:34.159 like lots of my lots of my friends were saying that, 0:25:34.280 --> 0:25:38.680 like the children because because folks who went to school 0:25:38.680 --> 0:25:42.879 before the revolution went to school in Arabic, So like 0:25:43.160 --> 0:25:45.040 the children are the ones who have like the formal 0:25:45.160 --> 0:25:48.080 education in Kurdish, you know, and that they're building a 0:25:48.240 --> 0:25:51.199 generation that like speaks Kurdish and reads and writes Kurdish 0:25:51.280 --> 0:25:54.159 is their first language. And so like an attempt to 0:25:54.240 --> 0:25:57.040 destroy that isn't just destroying the factory, right is that 0:25:57.119 --> 0:26:00.360 fair to say that it's also destroying like that goal 0:26:00.560 --> 0:26:03.359 of the revolution are more broadly like that attempt to 0:26:04.720 --> 0:26:07.440 like to have that education in Kurdish and let children 0:26:07.480 --> 0:26:08.760 speak their own language in school. 0:26:10.800 --> 0:26:13.720 Yes, I mean this is also part of like ustermination politics, 0:26:13.840 --> 0:26:17.840 who deny people their own language, which actually likes Asyrian regime. 0:26:17.920 --> 0:26:21.520 Also that like the only thought in Arabic and now 0:26:21.880 --> 0:26:26.000 for example, the system of the self administration lows everyone 0:26:26.119 --> 0:26:30.280 to learn and different languages. Likeno, there's Arabic, there's Kurdish, 0:26:30.359 --> 0:26:33.000 and even in the very last times are hearts that 0:26:33.080 --> 0:26:37.000 there will also be opened Ausyrian again, which is actually 0:26:37.080 --> 0:26:40.320 really important because it's like a language that is like 0:26:40.600 --> 0:26:46.120 very like most Assyrian people right now speaker and write Arabic, 0:26:46.240 --> 0:26:47.520 though it could be really important. 0:26:47.600 --> 0:26:51.840 Also yeah, yeah, and it's it's I think it's really 0:26:51.840 --> 0:26:54.000 important to point out for people who aren't aware. And 0:26:54.080 --> 0:26:58.000 often in the US media, like Rochio is reported as 0:26:58.080 --> 0:27:01.119 like Kurdish, like a Kurdish area, but it may have 0:27:01.280 --> 0:27:04.000