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Speaker 1: Also media.

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Speaker 2: Hello everyone, it's me today James, and I'm joined by

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Speaker 2: Benevan from the YPJ Information Authors, and we're going to

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Speaker 2: discuss today and chiefly that the Turkish bombing campaign against

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Speaker 2: it which has been happening in the last few weeks

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Speaker 2: and the last few months and the last few years.

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Speaker 2: So we wanted to set that in context for you.

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Speaker 2: And everyone's attention has been very much focused on other conflicts,

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Speaker 2: but that doesn't mean that this one isn't important, and

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Speaker 2: it's one that obviously listeners will be familiar with, so

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Speaker 2: we wanted to bring you an update on that. Welcome,

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Speaker 2: very vun Hello, thank you, Yeah, you're welcome.

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Speaker 3: Okay, happy to be here today. Good.

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Speaker 2: Let's start by, I think, just in case people need

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Speaker 2: a refresher or they haven't listened to some of the

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Speaker 2: other stuff, talk about what's happening in and why they

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Speaker 2: I guess why. It's why it's unique and what makes

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Speaker 2: it special.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So, actually right now in Java, for more than

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Speaker 3: ten years there's a revolution happening. I think most people

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Speaker 3: heard that. For some twenty eleven and so on, there

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Speaker 3: was like something called the Arab string. But actually in

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Speaker 3: the same time in this region in northern east Syria

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Speaker 3: actually also called like in the northern eastern part of Syria,

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Speaker 3: there's a region called Java, which is like a big

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Speaker 3: part of Kurtish population. There's also Christian population like Assyria,

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Speaker 3: and Arminian population and also Arab population. Like it's a

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Speaker 3: very colorful region, you can say. So in this region

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Speaker 3: twenty eleven, in this time and then twenty twelve, a

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Speaker 3: revolution started, which is actually based on a long term

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Speaker 3: struggle of the Kurdish movement and its experiences. And the

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Speaker 3: revolution was like mostly based on the idea to gain

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Speaker 3: democratic autonomy and today gain like democratic self administration. Why

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Speaker 3: because like the Syrian regime on the one hand was

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Speaker 3: like very oppressive towards the Kurdish people and on the

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Speaker 3: other hand, like it was like out topered Parian regime.

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Speaker 3: So there was like this wish to create something different,

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Speaker 3: which was actually created here in the region in Java. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: so I think this we can say at first, like

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Speaker 3: what happened was that relusion started and until today it's continuing.

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Speaker 3: Like it's a very like basic change of people's life.

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Speaker 3: We can say that happened here like democratic administration in

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Speaker 3: all areas of life, and also like, for example, a

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Speaker 3: great deal of a women's organization to achieve also women's

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Speaker 3: So the solutions like based on these principles of democratic

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Speaker 3: self administration, of women's freedom, and also of ecologies.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, perhaps you can explain people who aren't familiar a

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Speaker 2: little bit more about the women's revolution, because I think

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Speaker 2: that is something that that's extremely unique and that people

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Speaker 2: might not have like if they've heard of it, perhaps

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Speaker 2: they haven't really you know, I think the mainstream press

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Speaker 2: doesn't covered particularly well. So if you could explain, like

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Speaker 2: maybe something about the co chair system or the relationship

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Speaker 2: between yourselves and the yepigae and how that works.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. So actually I was just something like speaking about

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Speaker 3: the like when the revolution was happening, so I from

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Speaker 3: beginning online women also took place in it, like which

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Speaker 3: was already occasion the code of freedom movement in general,

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Speaker 3: is like that woman was like equally were equally taking

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Speaker 3: part in it and also always founded their own organizations,

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Speaker 3: like not like substitute to a general organization or something

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Speaker 3: like this, but actually like their own organization that at

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Speaker 3: the same time cooperate with the general organization. So there

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Speaker 3: was already this principle of women's autonomy. So this was

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Speaker 3: also adopted in Rehervoir. So in all areas which also

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Speaker 3: includes like political areas, areas of daily life, but also

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Speaker 3: military fields, women organized. So actually in the beginning of

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Speaker 3: the solution, they were like the society's kind of self

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Speaker 3: defense forces building us and in the beginning there were

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Speaker 3: already women in it. And then there was also the

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Speaker 3: foundation of hitep Gay like the people's Defense forces. But

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Speaker 3: after this also the White Pgay women's Protection units were founded.

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Speaker 3: So actually it's like a fully autonomous women's units that

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Speaker 3: take care of defending their homeland on the one hand,

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Speaker 3: but on the other hand, also made like a great

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Speaker 3: deal of change in the society in the daily life

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Speaker 3: of women because in the region that was before like

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Speaker 3: maybe to somebody like feudal or like because of the

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Speaker 3: authoria tennestry in the state, like there was no protection

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Speaker 3: for women's rights or something like this, and for example,

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Speaker 3: there was like the traditions of marrying a woman at

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Speaker 3: a young age or something like this. This was actually

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Speaker 3: changed by this woman's polution, Like the everyday life of

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Speaker 3: women was a change and is still changing, like it's

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Speaker 3: still a struggle because it meets changing the society in general. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: so there's like in every area of life today there's

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Speaker 3: like autonomous women's organization and the existing which makes its

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Speaker 3: with the main the most like profound woman's solution that

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Speaker 3: on to now is happening, I think. So it's like

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Speaker 3: really important like samplers for a woman. Everyone in the.

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Speaker 2: Work, Yeah, very much, and it is a genuinely profound change.

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Speaker 2: Having spent a little bit of time there earlier this year,

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Speaker 2: that it's very notable that you spent a lot of

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Speaker 2: time in that part of the world, how different things are.

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Speaker 2: And then perhaps we should talk about the battle against

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Speaker 2: the so called Samic state or dasher Isis or whatever

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Speaker 2: you want to call it. In the role that THEPGPJ

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Speaker 2: and SDF played in that, I can explain a little

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Speaker 2: about about that fight and the fighting that happened. And

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Speaker 2: also like the tremendous number of people who died fighting

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Speaker 2: or were martyred in the language it is used by

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Speaker 2: the revolution about them.

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Speaker 3: So like, uh, in general, I think everyone in the

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Speaker 3: work for listen to the name of the White jas

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Speaker 3: Woman's Protection Units and the relationship to ISIS. But actually

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Speaker 3: from the beginning on they fought like against this kind

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Speaker 3: of let's say like different like fundamentalists or mercenary groups

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Speaker 3: that were existing in the region, and when Isis was

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Speaker 3: coming up, Like the biggest almost known battle that actually

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Speaker 3: the world for the first time really saw was the

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Speaker 3: Battle for Kobanis where for example, the hypj with like

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Speaker 3: very very limited possibilities and the fought against the Isis

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Speaker 3: and actually succeeded like to defeat iss and to defend

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Speaker 3: the city of Kobani, which was kind of like a

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Speaker 3: breaking point where things started to turn around. Or we

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Speaker 3: have also had the point where forks are the Shanngha

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Speaker 3: was attacked, which is like in south post de Son,

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Speaker 3: it's not like in the era region, it's not even

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Speaker 3: in the same region. But the YPA also played like

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Speaker 3: the role in opening a corridor for the people who

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Speaker 3: tried to flee for the Yuzd people who like are

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Speaker 3: people who have faced like many genocides in history, and

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Speaker 3: in order to save them from the genocide of Isis,

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Speaker 3: the RPJA opened a corridor to help them to flee.

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Speaker 3: So and there are like many stories or like in

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Speaker 3: the end, the liberation of the city of Racca, which

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Speaker 3: was kind of known like as the center of the ISIS,

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Speaker 3: which also we can say like the Women's Force played

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Speaker 3: like a junior rein God this. So there are many

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Speaker 3: examples where we can say, like how deciding for examples

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Speaker 3: as of the Vibea was for the defeat of ISIS.

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Speaker 3: And I think on the other hand, we also have

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Speaker 3: to say that it is not completely defeated, because it

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Speaker 3: seemed like some support from outside structures, like from Turkey,

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Speaker 3: so there are still some like sales or form. There

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Speaker 3: are a lot of details detainees like before that was

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Speaker 3: happening at a try to break out from the detention

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Speaker 3: centers in twenty twenty two, So it's not like it's

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Speaker 3: completely vanished from the earth, but the actual defeat was

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Speaker 3: like reached by the JAP.

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Speaker 2: For Yeah, I think it's very important too. Like you

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Speaker 2: spoke about those like incarcerated ice form RIIS fighters right

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Speaker 2: and their attempt to break out. I think that's maybe

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Speaker 2: a good chance for us to talk about like some

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Speaker 2: other former risis fighters and like guarding in I think

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Speaker 2: it was called Turkey called Operation peace Spring. I think right,

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Speaker 2: like the these these Turkish incursions into uh into into Rojaba,

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Speaker 2: into like and and into like Syrian territory, can you

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Speaker 2: explain a little bit about like how I guess this

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Speaker 2: will get us to the modern day and and the bombing,

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Speaker 2: but like perhaps you can explain how this started. Obviously

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Speaker 2: Turkey has been opposed to the Kurdish freedom movement since

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Speaker 2: its inception, right since the very beginning and in the

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Speaker 2: last century. But preps, you could explain like this series

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Speaker 2: of ongoing Turkish aggressions against what's happening in Java now

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Speaker 2: and like how that began and how that's manifested itself

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Speaker 2: over the years.

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Speaker 3: Oh yes, like after ISOs was defeated to some degree,

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Speaker 3: actually Turkey for self started occupation attacks like and twenty

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Speaker 3: eighteen nineteen and started the occupation was first against Afrine

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Speaker 3: and then against tel Khania and Guido Speir, which are

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Speaker 3: all like very important regions of Bova that are like

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Speaker 3: directly next to the Turkish border, like you see, like

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Speaker 3: directly in between Syria and the Turkey like next to

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Speaker 3: the Turkish borders. So they directly attacked these cities next

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Speaker 3: to the border, which actually most of our cities are

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Speaker 3: directly next to the border, and they occupied them. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I think that's important to understand like a little bit

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Speaker 3: because actually there are took plans to occupy, occupy like

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Speaker 3: the region along the border, not only the cities that

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Speaker 3: they occupied. Until now, this is a very very violent

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Speaker 3: war with using aircraft and so on. Like in the

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Speaker 3: last years, uh Tooki very much invested in two drone

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Speaker 3: technology and so on, and they used also chemical weapons

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Speaker 3: like very famous in two nineteen the video of a

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Speaker 3: young child the name Mohammad went around the world that

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Speaker 3: like was like born by phosphorus in Secania in the

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Speaker 3: occupation attack. So like actually it's a like a war

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Speaker 3: that is smallest sleep fought also with the most like

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Speaker 3: gutty yeah methods that took his waging around the region.

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Speaker 3: And after this, like we can't say like after Secane

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Speaker 3: was occupied, Tooki actually continued to attack with a war

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Speaker 3: that you cannot say like at this time it starts

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Speaker 3: and in this time and it's more like continuous attacks.

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Speaker 3: So on the one hand, like some areas are always

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Speaker 3: getting bombed in the last years, like for examples like

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Speaker 3: artillery shelling and one like a share bar next to

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Speaker 3: Arthleene or iron Eesa or the tam so like the

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Speaker 3: areas that are close to the occupied areas were now

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Speaker 3: Turkey and mercenary forces are stations that constantly attacked more

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Speaker 3: or less the regions, but also with a drone war

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Speaker 3: like the first I think, very like clear example of

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Speaker 3: what was the strategy like in the last years was

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Speaker 3: on the twenty third June two down twenty when Turkey

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Speaker 3: killed three women of conguers the women's movement, like the

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Speaker 3: civil women's movement in Kobani in the village, which were

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Speaker 3: all like two of them were like in the leadership

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Speaker 3: of the women's movement and one was just like a

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Speaker 3: man well, and they were sitting in the garden and

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Speaker 3: they were talking and at this time like a Turk

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Speaker 3: a shtrongest strike and they all lost their lives. So

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Speaker 3: like a lot of these kinds of attacks happened after this,

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Speaker 3: like against like let's say, like civil leaders of society,

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Speaker 3: like politicians, normal people. Also like on the twenty fifth

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Speaker 3: of December, actually also on Christmas in twenty twenty one,

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Speaker 3: five five chill like young people like youth from the

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Speaker 3: youth movement were killed in Kobani also like they're just

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Speaker 3: when they were sitting in the garden like members of

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Speaker 3: the Youth center, like I took a stone stock three

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Speaker 3: of them like a young girls and this continued or

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Speaker 3: also we can say like leaders of Fox suble Ypja.

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Speaker 3: Also like on the twenty second of July last year,

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Speaker 3: there was a conference happening for celebrating ten years of

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Speaker 3: women's revolution in Rojaha, and just on the same day,

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Speaker 3: Turkey targeted the car of the Rye PJ members. One

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Speaker 3: of them was Jian Toldan, who also spoke on the

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Speaker 3: same day on the conference. Actually it's quite clear what

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Speaker 3: Turki actually once they want to like destroy the revolution

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Speaker 3: that's happening in Rushava, like the women's revolution and in general,

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Speaker 3: like this change that is happening. They want to create

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Speaker 3: like the sphere to stay away to way to the

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Speaker 3: Turkish occupation forces. And they're using a lot of violence.

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Speaker 3: Like also in the occupied areas, like the people are

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Speaker 3: right now, I think that I cannot speak their language.

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Speaker 3: They have to fear. Sometimes they cannot close the house doors.

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Speaker 3: Sometimes people get like abductor like without anyone knowing why

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Speaker 3: or where's they go as I go to the persons

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Speaker 3: that be in a prison or would I be fortshot

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Speaker 3: or like a very kind of oppressive region. Yeah, now

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Speaker 3: in the occupied areas.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and those are people who like I've met when

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Speaker 2: when they come here, right, people who have lost Like

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Speaker 2: I spoke to a guy, a mayor a couple of

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Speaker 2: weeks ago. You know, his father had been killed, his

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Speaker 2: uncle had been killed, and like he was like what

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Speaker 2: should he should? I should I wait to be like

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Speaker 2: the last person in my family and then who gets

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Speaker 2: killed or like it's it's very the conditions for those

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Speaker 2: people in the Turkish occupied parts of northern Kurdistan are very,

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Speaker 2: very difficult and oppressive. And I think, like, just to

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Speaker 2: build off what you said, like, it's important that people

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Speaker 2: realize that these killing of especially like people in the

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Speaker 2: Women's Revolution, but also you know, people in in the

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Speaker 2: Rajava revolution. More generally, it's not Drone strikes are extremely targeted, right,

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Speaker 2: Like they can follow a car from an event and

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Speaker 2: strike it. Like it's these kind of these things are

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Speaker 2: not it's not like they're it's not like artillery or mortars.

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Speaker 2: It's not like you're just sending it into an area.

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Speaker 2: Like they're extremely targeted to an individual or a group

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Speaker 2: of individuals rather than you know, random attack. So like

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Speaker 2: this is a distinct choice that's being made. Well, let's

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Speaker 2: talk about the most recent bombings because I think there

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Speaker 2: were some particularly egregious ones, even by the standard of

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Speaker 2: this campaign, which has been pretty egradition in the beginning.

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Speaker 2: But December, around the week of Christmas this year, just

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Speaker 2: to give people a time to the period, there was

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Speaker 2: a bombings of a if I'm not wrong, a printing press,

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Speaker 2: a dialysis facility, is that right?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, we actually there was. There was also another

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Speaker 3: like not hospital, like the hospital, let's say like a

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Speaker 3: medical point. Also Corbani where doctors was out borders. I

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Speaker 3: think it's like kind of a known and Jose they

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Speaker 3: were also working there at the oxygen center also, so

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Speaker 3: like medical places, there were like normal factories of of

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Speaker 3: food production like you said the printing house. There were

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Speaker 3: many places like this, like of daily infrastructure that were

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Speaker 3: targeted like before, already in October infrastructure was targeted. And

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Speaker 3: also last year there was attack Disis and every time

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Speaker 3: at least ten civilians got killed, like in all of

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Speaker 3: these attacks. So now I think the overall number just

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Speaker 3: of these three ways of attacks is already like search

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Speaker 3: one killed civilians, so like maybe dawn strike are very targeted,

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Speaker 3: but it's not like Turki doesn't want to kill civilians

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Speaker 3: or takes care not to kill civilians, like already in

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Speaker 3: the attacks of last year, there was an examples of

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Speaker 3: double tap attacks for example, which I actually be illegal.

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Speaker 3: So I think it's very important to say, like also

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Speaker 3: the targeting of medical points of medical infrastructure, that what

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Speaker 3: Turkey is doing is not according to international law, Like

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Speaker 3: that's not the case, Like Turki is kind of acting

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Speaker 3: like however advanced targeting civilians, creating like fear and also

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Speaker 3: like in a region that is already poor, Johnny, you

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Speaker 3: have to say, like the possibilities that have been created,

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Speaker 3: like like for daily needs and so on, for supplies

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Speaker 3: of electricity of like heating fuels and so on for

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Speaker 3: your house, they are very affected like this right now,

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Speaker 3: so like in general, there's like a big shortcoming of

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Speaker 3: everything right now and whatever, and just because of these attacks.

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Speaker 3: So this is actually affecting everyone. And on the other hand,

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Speaker 3: took it to try to create like this feel like

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Speaker 3: there's just some wave of attack and just targeting everywhere,

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Speaker 3: so they want to displace actually the population and also

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Speaker 3: to commit like the politics also to state, especially against

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Speaker 3: Scwritish people and also against the Christians, is very much

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Speaker 3: like potentially like genocidal politics, like it's not not like

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Speaker 3: a limited attack or something like this, Like we don't

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Speaker 3: think so.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it's not a And like you said, they're

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Speaker 2: very very much unafraid of killing civilians in the process.

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Speaker 2: Like I spoke to a mother whose fifteen year old

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Speaker 2: son was killed in a drone strike. I don't think

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Speaker 2: it's very hard to make an argument the fifteen year

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Speaker 2: old son was doing anything apart from being a fifteen

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Speaker 2: year old kid. You know, it's not like this person

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Speaker 2: is a legitimate military target. It was a kid who

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Speaker 2: played goalkeeper on his local football team. And these double

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Speaker 2: tap attacks, Like if people aren't familiar with the double

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Speaker 2: tap attack, it's when an attack happened, people go to

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Speaker 2: the site of the attack to render aid, right an

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Speaker 2: ambulance or baptis bystanders rendering aid or other military personnel

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Speaker 2: rendering aid, and then a second attack happened at the

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Speaker 2: same place to then attack the people who are rendering aid.

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Speaker 2: So you spoke a little bit about like how they're

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Speaker 2: trying to attack the whole project and not just individuals.

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Speaker 2: I wonder like the drone strikes do have like a

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Speaker 2: they change the way they have to be done right,

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Speaker 2: like it's it's things become unsafe, like any way you

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Speaker 2: can see the sky, right, like having a large gathering,

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Speaker 2: or certainly for people who are of more like higher status,

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Speaker 2: it's it's dangerous for them to be out and about,

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Speaker 2: right Is that fair to say?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? I mean on some level, for sure the dangerous.

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Speaker 3: But on the other hand, you cannot always be afraid.

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Speaker 3: Like that's like really the reality. Like for example, now,

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Speaker 3: because these places were targeted, for example, the infrastructure that

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Speaker 3: you need for your life, people actually started to stand

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Speaker 3: like next to the electricity center to say, like, if

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Speaker 3: we're all here, then they cannot target it. Wow, for

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Speaker 3: sure is dangerous as you see, like the they can they.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because they've killed a lot of civilians. As you say,

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Speaker 2: that's a very brain yes, yeah, and again I think

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Speaker 2: I think maybe we should explain actually so that it

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Speaker 2: gets very cold in this part of the world in

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Speaker 2: the winter, because perhaps people will associate this part of

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Speaker 2: the world with like the heat and hot chambers. But

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Speaker 2: like you, you have very cold winters, especially in the mountains.

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Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, I mean it's like all more or less flat,

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Speaker 3: like it's not so cold, but still it gets like

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Speaker 3: under zero degrees, like for sure, you needs the need

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Speaker 3: like your house to be warm and so on, like

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Speaker 3: just to take care of basic needs. You need your

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Speaker 3: car to drive somewhere maybe sometimes at least like some

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Speaker 3: people need it for their work or like this. There's

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Speaker 3: a lot of basic needs that don't work if if

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Speaker 3: all the infrastructure gets stored.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, And I believe if I'm right in saying,

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Speaker 2: this's the one person already passed away because it couldn't

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Speaker 2: get directs the dialysis center that was bombed, Is that right.

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Speaker 3: Yes, So as I said that one passed away, afterwards

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Speaker 3: they brought like a like emergency wise dialogs machine, yeah,

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Speaker 3: which I think is very good for the sick people.

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Speaker 3: But I'm not sure because also if you don't have

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Speaker 3: like a substitute of something happens like only one machine,

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Speaker 3: I'm not sure like how much it will actually take

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Speaker 3: care of the needs of people. Because I said it

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Speaker 3: was like seventy or eighty six people who were going

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Speaker 3: to the center, so it's not.

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Speaker 2: You yeah, and like I didn't think, Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 2: it's certainly not as good as having a proper center, right, Like,

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Speaker 2: and there's no reason there's no world in which a

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Speaker 2: dialysis center is a legitimate target or printing press, right,

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Speaker 2: Like I think that that maybe points to what you're saying,

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Speaker 2: like if you're printing books about something, sharing knowledge about something,

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Speaker 2: and like perhaps one thing I think you were saying,

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Speaker 2: is it right that it to textbooks.

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Speaker 3: I think it was like also printing textbook, Okay, like

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Speaker 3: it was printing everything, so it's also printing textbooks. Yes,

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Speaker 3: like also was printing textbook.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And we should point out that, like, you know,

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Speaker 2: I speak to Kurdish people almost every day when I'm

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Speaker 2: at the border, and they many of them don't read

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Speaker 2: and write in Kurdish because in Turkey that's not taught

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Speaker 2: in schools, right, they don't have a chance to learn,

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Speaker 2: and and so like having those textbooks, having that knowledge,

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Speaker 2: like lots of my lots of my friends were saying that,

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Speaker 2: like the children because because folks who went to school

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Speaker 2: before the revolution went to school in Arabic, So like

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Speaker 2: the children are the ones who have like the formal

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Speaker 2: education in Kurdish, you know, and that they're building a

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Speaker 2: generation that like speaks Kurdish and reads and writes Kurdish

381
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Speaker 2: is their first language. And so like an attempt to

382
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Speaker 2: destroy that isn't just destroying the factory, right is that

383
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Speaker 2: fair to say that it's also destroying like that goal

384
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Speaker 2: of the revolution are more broadly like that attempt to

385
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Speaker 2: like to have that education in Kurdish and let children

386
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Speaker 2: speak their own language in school.

387
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Speaker 3: Yes, I mean this is also part of like ustermination politics,

388
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Speaker 3: who deny people their own language, which actually likes Asyrian regime.

389
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Speaker 3: Also that like the only thought in Arabic and now

390
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Speaker 3: for example, the system of the self administration lows everyone

391
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Speaker 3: to learn and different languages. Likeno, there's Arabic, there's Kurdish,

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Speaker 3: and even in the very last times are hearts that

393
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Speaker 3: there will also be opened Ausyrian again, which is actually

394
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Speaker 3: really important because it's like a language that is like

395
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Speaker 3: very like most Assyrian people right now speaker and write Arabic,

396
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Speaker 3: though it could be really important.

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Speaker 2: Also yeah, yeah, and it's it's I think it's really

398
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Speaker 2: important to point out for people who aren't aware. And

399
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Speaker 2: often in the US media, like Rochio is reported as

400
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Speaker 2: like Kurdish, like a Kurdish area, but it may have

401
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 2: a majority of court in some cities. But like, yeah,

402
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:05,919
Speaker 2: there are Assyrian people, there are Arab people that are

403
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:09,800
Speaker 2: Armenian people, and like they have that same autonomy right

404
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Speaker 2: to educate in their own language and to like organizing

405
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Speaker 2: their own communities.

406
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Speaker 3: Yes, that's what the idea is all about. And I

407
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:21,080
Speaker 3: think actually like resources in the last time, that was

408
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:25,200
Speaker 3: kind of trying to create this image of like Perds

409
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Speaker 3: against Arabs, like from the outside in the international media,

410
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:32,639
Speaker 3: which is absolutely not true. Like the SDS itself is

411
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:37,639
Speaker 3: like majorly Arabic force. It's not majorly Purish, like if

412
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 3: you see numbers I think at least, so it's like

413
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:43,879
Speaker 3: very equal, like everyone who plays a role in US

414
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 3: and who wants to participate can participate, and everyone has

415
00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:50,880
Speaker 3: a like autonomy also to organize inside of their own

416
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:54,920
Speaker 3: society or may it be religion or and which like

417
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Speaker 3: also Yazdi people like Kurdish people who are Yazdi religion,

418
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:06,119
Speaker 3: they also have their own organization here in Yeah, well

419
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 3: that's very important, and.

420
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Speaker 2: Their own movement in their own area right the year

421
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Speaker 2: Bisho in that in that part of Iraq. Like that's

422
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Speaker 2: like I guess an allied movement, would that'd be fair

423
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Speaker 2: to say?

424
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean very much like follows the same idea

425
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Speaker 3: and the same concept as.

426
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Speaker 2: Yes, and yeah, I've also spoken to az people who

427
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 2: have come to the United States recently and like, yeah,

428
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:40,240
Speaker 2: they under the under they had absolutely like inhumane and

429
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 2: terrible conditions, and if it wasn't for the gay then

430
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 2: they like they wouldn't be there. The the you know,

431
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:54,640
Speaker 2: the they the beginning of the their liberation I guess

432
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Speaker 2: came from the gay and something we'll maybe talk about

433
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:04,080
Speaker 2: another time. It's a long story. I wonder, Yeah, like,

434
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Speaker 2: obviously this isn't something that has been in the news

435
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 2: as much because people have been so focused on Palestine.

436
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 2: I wonder if it's worth discussing, like the Turkish States

437
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 2: completely like like two phased approach, right, like on one

438
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 2: hand they're saying.

439
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 3: We have to.

440
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:27,240
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, it's unacceptable for the bombing of civilians in

441
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:29,520
Speaker 2: Palestine and like this is completely wrong, and then on

442
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 2: the other hand that they're doing the same thing right

443
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 2: like just on their other border.

444
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:38,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I'm thinking we have to anyway, says like

445
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 3: Turky is not doing anything good for the Palestinian people,

446
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:47,160
Speaker 3: Tuki is leading Hamas to such an attack, like supporting

447
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 3: Hamas and just like very violent attacks that I made,

448
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 3: which then was like the preset for the war of

449
00:29:56,800 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 3: Israel and international forces against the Palestinian people. So actually

450
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 3: who is like suffering from all of this, it's like

451
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 3: the normal people, like which is for Israel and Palestine.

452
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 3: So actually we have to say, like what Chuki is

453
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 3: doing is against the people, like it's also against the

454
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 3: Palestinian people. And here like they have criticized to clearly,

455
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:25,720
Speaker 3: for example, Israel is saying like saying Isa is making

456
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 3: occupation politics and so on. Still Zuki also has ties

457
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:34,880
Speaker 3: with Israel. We also have to say, but like they

458
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 3: are themselves occupying parts of Java in the shadow of

459
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 3: these attacks that like all the attention of the world

460
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:52,160
Speaker 3: was going uh into this region. They attacked like also

461
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:56,240
Speaker 3: calculating that maybe people will not so much look to

462
00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 3: right now, like at the same time, there's like another

463
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:03,440
Speaker 3: huge war going on in the Middle East, and they

464
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 3: are making like very clearly like politics of occupation in

465
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:14,200
Speaker 3: Aftene and Silkanya and also democratic demographic change. So they

466
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 3: are like displacing people and placing other people.

467
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's very Yeah, well displacing whom and and placing whom,

468
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:26,400
Speaker 2: because I think that's important when we talk about like

469
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 2: that that population and demographic change, like because there's it's

470
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 2: not they're not just displacing people randomly and replacing them randomly.

471
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, so actually the people that are targeted the

472
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 3: most are like the Kurdish people in the areas or

473
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:47,680
Speaker 3: other people that are like not aligned to the state,

474
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:51,960
Speaker 3: and then who they place like mostly was like you

475
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:56,080
Speaker 3: see that all the mercenary forces that are actually aligned

476
00:31:56,320 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 3: to Turkey or like outside forces already, like they're like

477
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 3: they are not isis, but they are a little bit

478
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 3: similar to it. They are like mercenary groups that are

479
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:12,960
Speaker 3: like more or less like what road they go. It's

480
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 3: they're clarified from outside the forces, so they are aligned

481
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:21,880
Speaker 3: to Turkey and from these people for example, they're families

482
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 3: who are placed in the region on the one hand.

483
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,960
Speaker 3: On the other hand, they were even examples were Turkey

484
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 3: started to place some Palestinian people also in this region

485
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:36,200
Speaker 3: or like different like they just do they think they

486
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:41,840
Speaker 3: can align to Turkey as a state and doing under

487
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:45,960
Speaker 3: their control. They were placing in these areas that say

488
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:50,400
Speaker 3: it like this, like to be able to actually what

489
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:54,280
Speaker 3: is the part of Bolvar a part of Syria, to

490
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 3: occupy it long term, like to make this last. It's

491
00:32:57,320 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 3: not like a short term plant, like they want to

492
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:04,560
Speaker 3: stay in this area, that it's not prevented if it's

493
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:05,600
Speaker 3: not liberated again.

494
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:08,760
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, And I think like again, like people that

495
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:11,440
Speaker 2: I think have become more aware in recent months, people

496
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:15,720
Speaker 2: are becoming educated on a situation in Palestine settlements. And

497
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:19,280
Speaker 2: it's not the fault of the people are Palestine that

498
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 2: they're being like forced to be driven off their ancestral homelands.

499
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:27,200
Speaker 2: But like what it does mean is that like they

500
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:31,160
Speaker 2: could be mobilized by someone like Turkey right to just

501
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:34,240
Speaker 2: do an occupation to to do it, I guess demographic

502
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 2: transfer somewhere else, and like that's not a that's not

503
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 2: like a desirable outcome. We spoke a little bit about

504
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:56,960
Speaker 2: like this like ongoing hostility here and it can seem

505
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:01,400
Speaker 2: for people out look, I think people only hear about

506
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 2: in negative and not negative terms is the wrong thing.

507
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 2: But like they only it only ever enters the American

508
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:10,560
Speaker 2: press these days. When something happens right, either an isis

509
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:13,759
Speaker 2: attack something one of the cat like a Hall or

510
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:18,359
Speaker 2: a ROJR. But like, also things are continuing to progress, right,

511
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:20,960
Speaker 2: It's not just a place that is in battled and

512
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:24,280
Speaker 2: fighting to survive. Like I know, recently a new social

513
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:26,760
Speaker 2: contract was passed for instance, So maybe you could explain

514
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:29,120
Speaker 2: a little bit about the progress is still being made

515
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:33,920
Speaker 2: despite this this ongoing like air war during war and

516
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:34,520
Speaker 2: land war.

517
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:41,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, so actually I think we always follow this philosophy

518
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:44,400
Speaker 3: that we are not like sitting here and saying our

519
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 3: war will come towards us or like it will not

520
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:50,360
Speaker 3: be like we are very much helpful and we're always

521
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:54,160
Speaker 3: working to develop. Like even if these things are happening,

522
00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:57,440
Speaker 3: if these attacks are happening, the solution very very much

523
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:02,600
Speaker 3: developed and the society changed a lot already, a lot

524
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:06,520
Speaker 3: of institutions have been built up that before we're not

525
00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:10,320
Speaker 3: existing and so on. And as an outcome also of this,

526
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:13,680
Speaker 3: the new social contract was formed, which actually is like

527
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:17,880
Speaker 3: a very democratic process. Like let's say if the state force,

528
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:22,560
Speaker 3: for example, has the constitution, the state less the self

529
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:27,400
Speaker 3: administration has a social contract which actually is made by

530
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:30,719
Speaker 3: the people because until it was made, there was the

531
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:34,200
Speaker 3: years of discussion, like there were so many meetings, like

532
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:38,320
Speaker 3: all of the political representatives from the smallest to the

533
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:42,640
Speaker 3: biggest level, they were all part of the discussion, and

534
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:45,960
Speaker 3: also the people themselves they could take part in the discussion.

535
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:50,920
Speaker 3: So now this is for example, ensuring a lot of

536
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:56,040
Speaker 3: important decisions and now, like the struggle that is before us,

537
00:35:56,440 --> 00:36:00,760
Speaker 3: like that we are facing now is to implement social contract,

538
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 3: which is very important. It's also guaranteeing a lot of

539
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:08,400
Speaker 3: pogus for women, it's guaranteeing a lot of focus for society.

540
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:13,480
Speaker 3: So I think still now like it's a task to

541
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:18,680
Speaker 3: like see how how it can be implemented in all

542
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:23,480
Speaker 3: areas because it's always like a very lively process, like

543
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:28,040
Speaker 3: it always needs the daily struggle, the daily work creating

544
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 3: like everything from new So there's a lot going on.

545
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:35,720
Speaker 3: Actually here we can say.

546
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely and like it definitely, like it doesn't I

547
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 2: think it's easy, Like again, if we only report on

548
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:44,839
Speaker 2: this thing when bad things are happening, like to think

549
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:47,479
Speaker 2: that it's only better. And there's a lot like people

550
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:50,400
Speaker 2: are still hopeful, I think, and hopeful for creating and

551
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:54,440
Speaker 2: spreading like this better future for themselves and the children

552
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:59,000
Speaker 2: and for the region, which I think is it's really admirable.

553
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 2: One thing I thought was really amiable is people will

554
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:05,719
Speaker 2: probably have seen it, but like if they don't like

555
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 2: follow social media so much. The exchange of statements of

556
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:12,960
Speaker 2: solidarity between the K and d F, the Cronian National

557
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:18,240
Speaker 2: Defense Force Battalion five specifically in Myanmar and the YPG

558
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:24,400
Speaker 2: and YPG in and they've gone back and forth, right,

559
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:27,400
Speaker 2: But can you explain a little bit about Obviously I

560
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:29,880
Speaker 2: know that the situation in Mema is very complicated. I

561
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:32,600
Speaker 2: know I've spent years of my life learning about it.

562
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 2: But can you explain like the importance of that solidarity

563
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:41,160
Speaker 2: and like also perhaps like it's not it was a

564
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:43,640
Speaker 2: risk right for everyone to gather like this in in

565
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:46,160
Speaker 2: the middle of the drone war to make the statement,

566
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:50,439
Speaker 2: but can you explain like why that solidarity with something

567
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 2: they felt was so important.

568
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:56,919
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think in Jel it's very important to say,

569
00:37:57,080 --> 00:38:01,640
Speaker 3: like the revolution, it's not like avolution for the people

570
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:05,520
Speaker 3: of visual itself. It has like a perspective more general,

571
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:11,480
Speaker 3: like to strengthen the friendship of democratic movements anywhere in

572
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 3: the world. So for sure, there's a lot of colors

573
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:18,320
Speaker 3: of movements, a lot of different situations in the world.

574
00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:23,919
Speaker 3: And some might also like let's say, see the solidarity

575
00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:28,400
Speaker 3: very strong because actually they are also like Miama, like

576
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:33,000
Speaker 3: also facing for example, state system which is very much

577
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:36,160
Speaker 3: influenced by fascism. Like for some we are facing the

578
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:40,200
Speaker 3: Turkey or like in general, this kind of oppression and

579
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:44,920
Speaker 3: trying to liberate from it. So actually we're always trying

580
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:49,560
Speaker 3: to have like this exchange in general in the world

581
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:52,719
Speaker 3: and to have like also to build like how let's say,

582
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:59,160
Speaker 3: like quality, quality relationships, quality friendships with all kinds of

583
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:04,440
Speaker 3: demo quatic movement. For sure, every everyone is acting on

584
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:07,960
Speaker 3: a different level and so on. But this is like

585
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:11,080
Speaker 3: a big something really really important for us in general.

586
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:14,799
Speaker 3: And I mean, like in the revolution, there were also

587
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:17,880
Speaker 3: always people from the outside, for example, participating in it,

588
00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:20,120
Speaker 3: so there was always kind of the spirit that this

589
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:24,400
Speaker 3: is sex the revolution for the word, like the Kurdish

590
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:29,720
Speaker 3: movement in general has sex's character, like an internationalist character,

591
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:34,799
Speaker 3: so it's not something like, uh, let's say, like far

592
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:40,200
Speaker 3: from from us, like it's already something like very close

593
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:43,839
Speaker 3: to us to say, like we stand in solidarity also

594
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:45,840
Speaker 3: with other liberation movements.

595
00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:49,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it was very it was. I know

596
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:52,120
Speaker 2: it's very much appreciated in them, because lots lots of

597
00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:54,080
Speaker 2: people from there have reached out to tell me how

598
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:57,759
Speaker 2: how much they appreciated it. And like I think some

599
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:00,840
Speaker 2: of them have been in the revolution for seventy years

600
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:04,440
Speaker 2: and their world has not paid attention to them, so

601
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:09,200
Speaker 2: they really appreciated that. And that's that solidarity. And like

602
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:12,640
Speaker 2: I know that the solidarity runs a lot deeper than statements,

603
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:16,759
Speaker 2: but like we will cover that they extended that solidarity

604
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 2: in another episode, because again I think it it merits.

605
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:24,800
Speaker 2: It's a in recording. I wonder a better van what

606
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:28,040
Speaker 2: Obviously people will be listening, right, and I think a

607
00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 2: lot of people will be very supportive of the revolution

608
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:34,600
Speaker 2: in Reja, and they want to help it and see

609
00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:37,959
Speaker 2: it succeed, and certainly not to see No one wants

610
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:41,120
Speaker 2: to see civilians dying in drone strikes, right, no one

611
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:44,480
Speaker 2: wants to see anyone drying in drone strikes. But how

612
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:47,600
Speaker 2: can they if they are in the US or in

613
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:52,680
Speaker 2: Europe or elsewhere in the world but not in how

614
00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:56,480
Speaker 2: can they help? How can they support the revolution through

615
00:40:56,600 --> 00:41:01,040
Speaker 2: its like difficult, through these difficult moments when people don't

616
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:03,319
Speaker 2: have electricity to hit their homes in the winter and things.

617
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:10,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think there's a lot of possibilities like sits

618
00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:13,879
Speaker 3: coming here, which also is the point. But I mean

619
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:18,399
Speaker 3: in general, like you have all of this these possibilities,

620
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:21,960
Speaker 3: like from educating yourself, what is the distribution actually about

621
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:27,480
Speaker 3: understanding it from spreading its ideas, which is maybe the

622
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:31,760
Speaker 3: most important task. May it be like spreading knowledge about

623
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:35,000
Speaker 3: the spreading knowledge also about the attacks that are happening,

624
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:38,200
Speaker 3: clarifying what is happening and why it's happening. To read

625
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:41,719
Speaker 3: about political backgrounds or sort of international politics. That's very

626
00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:45,080
Speaker 3: important for the senus. And also you can always like

627
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 3: share for example, let's say you have social media, let's

628
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:51,480
Speaker 3: tell you're part of the political movement or something. You

629
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:54,680
Speaker 3: can discuss about it. You can inform yourself about it.

630
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:58,279
Speaker 3: You can make a presentation about it in your university.

631
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:00,120
Speaker 3: Like there are so many things that you can do,

632
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:03,759
Speaker 3: Like you can read the book about it and make

633
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:06,840
Speaker 3: the book presentation. Like there's a million things a person

634
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:11,000
Speaker 3: can do. Well as you're doing, you can connect to

635
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:16,360
Speaker 3: the Kurdish refugees or to the society Kurdish people in

636
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:20,520
Speaker 3: the diaspora in general, like outside of Curtis, somewherever you

637
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:26,680
Speaker 3: might be. Yeah, that's possibility. Also, like you can organize solidarity,

638
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:31,200
Speaker 3: also practical solidarity. Also, like let's say, like intellection works,

639
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:35,759
Speaker 3: like write a text there, discuss about it. Like maybe

640
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:39,120
Speaker 3: it's difficult in the beginning to understand some things or

641
00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:42,000
Speaker 3: to gain information. But right now there's actually a lot

642
00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:45,400
Speaker 3: of information also available in English language.

643
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:51,640
Speaker 2: I think, Yeah, you can read for about a year

644
00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:54,560
Speaker 2: and non stuff I think, and still not not have

645
00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:57,800
Speaker 2: read all of it. But are there books You've recommended

646
00:42:57,800 --> 00:42:59,680
Speaker 2: a couple of books to me which I think have

647
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:02,239
Speaker 2: been really good, and I've shared with my friends and

648
00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:04,759
Speaker 2: Meanmma and I know that they've enjoyed. Are there any

649
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:06,600
Speaker 2: books that you'd recommend to listeners.

650
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:11,480
Speaker 3: I mean and Jina, Like this revolution is based on

651
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:16,520
Speaker 3: the thoughts of abdul so I think a good idea

652
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:20,200
Speaker 3: if you actually want to understand, like the ideological basis

653
00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:25,440
Speaker 3: of it about women's liberations, about how democratic society can

654
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:28,880
Speaker 3: be organized. So actually there's like this book called of

655
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:32,440
Speaker 3: him Sociology of Freedom. I think it's very important, and

656
00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:35,680
Speaker 3: so that's a bit like understandable. I think for someone

657
00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:38,719
Speaker 3: who comes maybe from academic or from a lessis or

658
00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:41,759
Speaker 3: from a democratic background, I think they will read it,

659
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:44,080
Speaker 3: they will be able to understand it. But there are

660
00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:47,400
Speaker 3: also many other books that are translated to English or

661
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:51,600
Speaker 3: like texts that are available, or in general there are

662
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:55,799
Speaker 3: books about the revolution from people for example, coming from

663
00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:59,840
Speaker 3: the outside. I have to think right now in English.

664
00:43:59,880 --> 00:44:02,320
Speaker 3: I'm sorry. I know there are some also some in

665
00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:06,520
Speaker 3: the different languages about the Woman's revolution. Mm hmmm, so

666
00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:09,480
Speaker 3: I have to think with a yable. I think that's

667
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:14,800
Speaker 3: also like there's one called like the Politics of Freedom

668
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:17,880
Speaker 3: or something. And there are some books that were published

669
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:22,600
Speaker 3: because they were like the diplomatic conferences in most of them,

670
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:28,160
Speaker 3: I think happening in Europe, which they were like some

671
00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:35,800
Speaker 3: like collections of philosophical discussion, uh like published, So I

672
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:39,360
Speaker 3: think that's also very available. But I'm sorry I have

673
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:40,840
Speaker 3: exact tight.

674
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:44,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, there's a good book called Revolution in

675
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:48,920
Speaker 2: Rouchev which was translated from German that like, I think

676
00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 2: it lays out like that how things happen. It's a

677
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:55,759
Speaker 2: little bit a little bit dated now. I think it

678
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:59,399
Speaker 2: was published in like twenty sixteen, so you know, things

679
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:01,279
Speaker 2: have changed a few years. But I think that's a

680
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:04,680
Speaker 2: decent book for people who are interested as well, that

681
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:08,840
Speaker 2: I know a lot of people have recommended. Yeah, And

682
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:12,160
Speaker 2: then I wonder, like, because this isn't being like I know,

683
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:14,279
Speaker 2: you made the point earlier about that the world was

684
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:17,880
Speaker 2: looking at Palestine when the taxi Palestine happened. I was

685
00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:21,800
Speaker 2: in Camischlow in Roosevelt, and like, it's impossible for me

686
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:26,080
Speaker 2: to sell stories. It's impossible for me to sell anything

687
00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:28,560
Speaker 2: to like big news outlets so that they simply like,

688
00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:31,400
Speaker 2: don't think American people can care about two parts to

689
00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:34,120
Speaker 2: the world at once. I guess I wonder where people

690
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:38,160
Speaker 2: can follow and get updates, Like it's a good social

691
00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:40,799
Speaker 2: media or news outlets that you woulduggest for people who

692
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:42,520
Speaker 2: do want to keep in touch with what's happening.

693
00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:48,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean we have like a Facebook place as

694
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:55,680
Speaker 3: Wipe Day information on Documentation Office like YPJ information. But

695
00:45:56,760 --> 00:46:01,680
Speaker 3: also there's like other places like the Information Center, which

696
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:07,680
Speaker 3: is very much like like independently accriminating like knowledge and

697
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:10,760
Speaker 3: sharing in a way that I think is understandable for everyone.

698
00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:14,280
Speaker 3: Like there's also from the SDI forces a press center

699
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:17,880
Speaker 3: which just has like also an English homepage is sharing

700
00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:23,360
Speaker 3: like sometimes statements and concrete information. There's an Internationalist Commune

701
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:27,920
Speaker 3: of sharing an English language, a lot of information on

702
00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:31,600
Speaker 3: Twitter and on the homepage. So there's actually a lot

703
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:35,839
Speaker 3: of sources if you go and look forward, that are

704
00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:36,759
Speaker 3: very good. I think.

705
00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:40,400
Speaker 2: Also yes, and like underground people who can show you

706
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:44,280
Speaker 2: what's happening, And yeah, I think I think that's wonderful

707
00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:46,959
Speaker 2: that anything else you'd like us to get to before

708
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:49,160
Speaker 2: we finish up, anything else you want people to know.

709
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:53,400
Speaker 3: No, I think it's very important to say again that

710
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:57,840
Speaker 3: it's like very very valuable for the revolutional for people

711
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:01,000
Speaker 3: to take part in actions to makes a voice, hard

712
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:04,400
Speaker 3: to organize, to make the solution known, to get it

713
00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:08,359
Speaker 3: to know for themselves, and that it does actually make

714
00:47:08,440 --> 00:47:11,879
Speaker 3: a very very huge difference like the struggle that people

715
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:14,480
Speaker 3: everyone in the world are making for the solution and

716
00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:19,200
Speaker 3: that it needs it. That like it's very like critical

717
00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:22,160
Speaker 3: for those of a revolution that everyone's world it gets

718
00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:28,040
Speaker 3: known and gets like solidarity that received this are very meaningful.

719
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:32,040
Speaker 3: I think that's very important to understand. Besides this, I

720
00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:35,200
Speaker 3: don't know, I hope, yes, that's I think.

721
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:38,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's really good to realize that it's

722
00:47:39,040 --> 00:47:41,600
Speaker 2: it's not a it's you know, it's a very worthwhile

723
00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:44,879
Speaker 2: thing to do just to increase people's awareness and solidarity.

724
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:48,080
Speaker 2: And thank you so much your time. I know Internet

725
00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:50,160
Speaker 2: it's not the easiest thing to come by where you are,

726
00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:52,560
Speaker 2: so thank you so much better Van for taking the

727
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:53,600
Speaker 2: time to talk to us today.

728
00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:57,759
Speaker 3: Thank you also for talking about the topic. I was

729
00:47:57,880 --> 00:47:58,840
Speaker 3: very happy to join.

730
00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:01,040
Speaker 2: Its great Thanks so much.

731
00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:08,880
Speaker 1: It could Happen Here as a production of cool Zone Media.

732
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:10,239
Speaker 3: For more podcasts from.

733
00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:13,279
Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media, visit our website coolzonemedia dot com or

734
00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:16,000
Speaker 1: check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

735
00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:18,840
Speaker 1: wherever you listen to podcasts. You can find sources for

736
00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:22,120
Speaker 1: It could Happen Here, updated monthly at coolzonemedia dot com

737
00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:24,120
Speaker 1: slash sources. Thanks for listening.