1
00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:08,360
Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome back to the Psychology of Your Twenties,

2
00:00:08,760 --> 00:00:12,879
Speaker 1: the Very unprofessional podcast, whereby I your unqualified guide talk

3
00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:15,280
Speaker 1: through some of the big changes and transitions of our

4
00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:23,040
Speaker 1: twenties and what they mean for our psychology. Well, okay,

5
00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:27,000
Speaker 1: it's been a big week. First week of August has

6
00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:30,280
Speaker 1: absolutely blown by, and we're also halfway through the year,

7
00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:33,839
Speaker 1: which is insane time as moving people, I'm having a

8
00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:38,640
Speaker 1: flipping marvelous time of it all. I also just wanted

9
00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:41,120
Speaker 1: to quickly start off by saying a big thank you

10
00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:43,320
Speaker 1: to all those who have been listening to my podcast

11
00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:46,560
Speaker 1: so far. I don't know. This is a real passion

12
00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:48,800
Speaker 1: project for me. I love talking about these concepts and

13
00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:53,840
Speaker 1: getting to deep dive into the psychological theory behind their occurrence,

14
00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:57,160
Speaker 1: especially in our twenties. So I'm really really grateful that

15
00:00:57,240 --> 00:00:59,920
Speaker 1: people actually are finding it interesting and want to listen

16
00:00:59,920 --> 00:01:03,280
Speaker 1: to me ramble and thanks for all the messages and

17
00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:04,880
Speaker 1: the love. It just means a lot. And if you

18
00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:09,280
Speaker 1: have feedback, please send it my way. I obviously want

19
00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:12,800
Speaker 1: to hear it. And just a huge thanks to everyone

20
00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:17,880
Speaker 1: who has already reached out. So that sappy, happy side

21
00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:20,160
Speaker 1: out of the way. This week we're going to be

22
00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:24,840
Speaker 1: talking about the Green Monster. So jealousy. Not only is

23
00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:27,760
Speaker 1: it an amazing Olivio Rodrigo song, but it's also a

24
00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:30,320
Speaker 1: really bloody interesting topic to look into as someone who

25
00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:33,400
Speaker 1: I would say often gets that jealous surge at times.

26
00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:36,399
Speaker 1: So hopefully I can spread some cool knowledge about what

27
00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:41,360
Speaker 1: I have discovered in my time reading up on this yeah,

28
00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:44,600
Speaker 1: and just kind of investigating jealousy. Also a big shout

29
00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:47,119
Speaker 1: out to a friend of the show, Carolina, for suggesting

30
00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:49,760
Speaker 1: this episode on the poll I ran on my Instagram

31
00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:52,200
Speaker 1: a few weeks ago. I thought this just would be

32
00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:54,920
Speaker 1: a great concept to break down, particularly for those in

33
00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:59,240
Speaker 1: their twenties. I think jealousy is a weird emotion, and

34
00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:02,840
Speaker 1: really being able to break down why it's so intense,

35
00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:06,240
Speaker 1: why it leaves us feeling so ikey, is important so

36
00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:08,800
Speaker 1: that you know, A, we don't feel bad when we

37
00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:11,000
Speaker 1: do get jealous and B we can kind of manage

38
00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:13,680
Speaker 1: it and ensure that it doesn't harm our friendships, our

39
00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:20,560
Speaker 1: relationships and overall well being. Firstly, jealousy is a universal emotion.

40
00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:22,680
Speaker 1: It's not just those in their twenties that have that

41
00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:26,360
Speaker 1: weird pang of emotion or obsessiveness and insecurity in our

42
00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:30,720
Speaker 1: relationships or towards another person. But young people are more

43
00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:33,800
Speaker 1: prone to jealousy than any other age group, particularly those

44
00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:37,680
Speaker 1: between the nineteen and twenty six age range. So there

45
00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:41,080
Speaker 1: was this research done by the University of California and

46
00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:45,000
Speaker 1: they found eighty percent of people aged thirty or under

47
00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:48,120
Speaker 1: had felt an attack of the green eyed monster I

48
00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:50,880
Speaker 1: guess in the past year, compared to just sixty nine

49
00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:54,720
Speaker 1: percent of people over fifty. So a real big age

50
00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:58,080
Speaker 1: difference there, or just a difference in frequency, I guess

51
00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:01,440
Speaker 1: amongst different age groups. I think especially when we're young

52
00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:04,520
Speaker 1: and in love or just feeling more vulnerable, jealousy can

53
00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:08,400
Speaker 1: be a lot more common, especially in romantic relationships, but

54
00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:11,080
Speaker 1: also friendships or towards people we may not even know.

55
00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:16,000
Speaker 1: And jealousy it's not just about love or being protective

56
00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:20,239
Speaker 1: of a relationship. We can feel jealous of basically anything

57
00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:24,280
Speaker 1: you know, looks, possessions, as well as obviously our partners

58
00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:28,359
Speaker 1: and friends. But what really often drives jealousy is unfortunately

59
00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:31,320
Speaker 1: something a little bit deeper, So low self esteem and

60
00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:34,760
Speaker 1: poor self image is typically more common in those who

61
00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:39,240
Speaker 1: report feeling more jealous towards those in their lives, and

62
00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:43,680
Speaker 1: in one study, overwhelmingly people actually envied others of their

63
00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:48,520
Speaker 1: own gender more so men envied other men and women

64
00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:53,400
Speaker 1: envied other women more consistently. Even in domains like financial

65
00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:56,080
Speaker 1: and occupation or success where you can imagine that you know,

66
00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:58,880
Speaker 1: a woman might envy a man for his better pay

67
00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:02,160
Speaker 1: or status, that usually wasn't the case. It's normally those

68
00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:05,000
Speaker 1: who are the same gender that you identify ass that

69
00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:09,040
Speaker 1: normally receive a great deal more of your envy or

70
00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:12,520
Speaker 1: your jealousy. But like I kind of mentioned, jealousy, it

71
00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:14,800
Speaker 1: often comes from a lack of security in what we have,

72
00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:18,280
Speaker 1: or a lack of certainty or trust, especially in the

73
00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:21,000
Speaker 1: case of relationships, And yeah, it can be a pretty

74
00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:24,640
Speaker 1: terrible feeling and create problems. But it's so important not

75
00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:29,200
Speaker 1: to suppress feelings of jealousy, especially when we're young, because

76
00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:33,160
Speaker 1: in this time we do have the opportunity to examine

77
00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:36,400
Speaker 1: the origins of the emotion before it becomes a pattern

78
00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:39,160
Speaker 1: of our behavior and a pattern of our thought. That's

79
00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:41,599
Speaker 1: why I think it is so crucial to discuss it

80
00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:44,560
Speaker 1: in relation to twenty something year olds. You know, in

81
00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:48,039
Speaker 1: this time of our lives, we have all these new experiences,

82
00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:51,080
Speaker 1: we're learning what a relationship is, what boundaries we want

83
00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:54,560
Speaker 1: for ourselves. We're establishing our sense of security and trust

84
00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:57,880
Speaker 1: in ourselves and also those around us. So jealousy can

85
00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:00,200
Speaker 1: be a real challenge, not just because it can be

86
00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:03,520
Speaker 1: pretty common, but also because none of us want to

87
00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:06,680
Speaker 1: be you know, that jealous person in any situation. You know,

88
00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:10,760
Speaker 1: the jealous girlfriend or the jealous boyfriend. So let's examine

89
00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:16,200
Speaker 1: the psychology of jealousy. Why is this green monster such

90
00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:19,640
Speaker 1: a hard one to shake off? Where does it kind

91
00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:23,000
Speaker 1: of come from, where does it emerge from? And what's

92
00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:26,839
Speaker 1: the purpose of jealousy? How can we acknowledge, address, and

93
00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:29,960
Speaker 1: move on from jealousy before it kind of creates havoc

94
00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:34,200
Speaker 1: in our personal lives or leads to us sacrificing amazing

95
00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:39,600
Speaker 1: relationships intimately and otherwise. Okay, so let's clear one thing

96
00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:43,640
Speaker 1: up firstly. Although I've kind of already said this, jealousy

97
00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:46,880
Speaker 1: is an entirely natural emotion to feel, it's not a

98
00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:51,600
Speaker 1: primary emotion. It's rather the combination of another of a

99
00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:55,400
Speaker 1: number of other primary emotions which we might be a

100
00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:59,400
Speaker 1: little bit better at recognizing. So let's just make up

101
00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:02,000
Speaker 1: a scenario. So imagine you've been talking with this guy,

102
00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:05,960
Speaker 1: this girl, person of your choosing. Maybe it's best to

103
00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:07,960
Speaker 1: kind of close your eyes and picture someone someone that

104
00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:10,839
Speaker 1: you've really liked at some stage, or maybe you currently

105
00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:14,000
Speaker 1: like them, someone that you've been talking to. Maybe you

106
00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:17,120
Speaker 1: just really vibe with them, you have good chemistry, love

107
00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:20,360
Speaker 1: spending time with them, and maybe you're hoping it will

108
00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:22,840
Speaker 1: go further, maybe you'll end up dating or something like that,

109
00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:28,279
Speaker 1: but basically you really like them, and imagine that feeling

110
00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:32,200
Speaker 1: of just being consumed by someone thinking about them constantly.

111
00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:35,679
Speaker 1: Then you see them with someone else, probably most likely

112
00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:41,360
Speaker 1: in Brandon or fucking Dixon. Woolli's definitely Cambrid coincidence. This

113
00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:44,680
Speaker 1: obviously has happened to me before. But you see them

114
00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:48,200
Speaker 1: as someone else, and you just can imagine that feeling

115
00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:51,960
Speaker 1: for a second, that heart swelling mixture of anger, of

116
00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:57,560
Speaker 1: anxiety and sadness. It's pretty terrible, And yeah, we kind

117
00:06:57,560 --> 00:06:59,880
Speaker 1: of need to realize, like, what is the emotional core

118
00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:03,720
Speaker 1: of jealousy. We can recognize that feeling. I know we've

119
00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:07,960
Speaker 1: probably all felt jealous of something in our lives before,

120
00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:11,880
Speaker 1: but jealousy is not one emotion. You know, you're not

121
00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:15,280
Speaker 1: just jealous, it's a combination of two primary emotions that

122
00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:20,720
Speaker 1: kind of create our overall emotional state. So firstly, there

123
00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:25,440
Speaker 1: is anxiety or fear, mostly around losing something, something being

124
00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:27,840
Speaker 1: taken from you, or not being able to attain something

125
00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:31,440
Speaker 1: that you would like. And this fear or anxiety is

126
00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:36,480
Speaker 1: what creates that initial almost nervous gut feeling, increased heart rate,

127
00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:40,200
Speaker 1: and just general discomfort. And then the anger tends to

128
00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:45,080
Speaker 1: come next, almost as a defense towards your fear. So

129
00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:48,400
Speaker 1: the anger is often the main what is that main

130
00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:51,720
Speaker 1: feeling that we have when feeling jealous, And you may

131
00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:54,120
Speaker 1: also feel a lot of doubt and dread. And I

132
00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:58,160
Speaker 1: also read another study which was a bit more anew

133
00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:00,480
Speaker 1: It was a newer study, and they suggested that jealousy

134
00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:02,640
Speaker 1: might also be made up of grief, So not just

135
00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:07,080
Speaker 1: fear and anger, but grief or just this like momentary

136
00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:10,920
Speaker 1: pain at the thought of losing a loved object or person.

137
00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:14,880
Speaker 1: And because these emotions are so strong, they can and

138
00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:18,520
Speaker 1: often carry with us. It's not just a momentary emotional state.

139
00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:23,240
Speaker 1: Things like grief, as we know, they don't leave once

140
00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:25,480
Speaker 1: you've felt it for a couple of minutes. So That's

141
00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:28,760
Speaker 1: why jealousy can kind of travel with us through a relationship,

142
00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:32,600
Speaker 1: even after you know an issue has been talked about

143
00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:35,960
Speaker 1: or rectified. But I think the other thing to make

144
00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:39,200
Speaker 1: very clear is jealousy is never intentional. It's simply the

145
00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:42,720
Speaker 1: emotion or the combination of emotions that we feel when

146
00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:46,920
Speaker 1: we suspect losing something we cherish, and it can be

147
00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:49,560
Speaker 1: triggered by heaps of factors. But we can see why

148
00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:53,120
Speaker 1: it's common in relationships settings, especially when we're young, and

149
00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:57,320
Speaker 1: those losses can be so raw and new, So this

150
00:08:57,480 --> 00:09:01,080
Speaker 1: threat will often come from a third party, and it

151
00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:03,720
Speaker 1: can make someone feel as if they're being replaced. So

152
00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:09,319
Speaker 1: our brains do commonly link jealousy to romantic relationships. For example,

153
00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:12,280
Speaker 1: a boyfriend who starts an argument when his girlfriend gets

154
00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:15,160
Speaker 1: a text from another man, or maybe we run into

155
00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:17,640
Speaker 1: an x and you know they've got someone new with them.

156
00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:20,920
Speaker 1: These are common triggers for a jealous person, but we

157
00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:23,800
Speaker 1: can feel threatened in relationships that aren't romantic as well.

158
00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:27,320
Speaker 1: You know, friendships co workers. Family members is also a

159
00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:30,600
Speaker 1: big one, especially siblings that are close in age. I

160
00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:36,600
Speaker 1: found it was a really interesting study that showed family

161
00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:39,880
Speaker 1: larger families or families with lots of siblings or kids

162
00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:43,400
Speaker 1: close in age, we're more likely to report greater instances

163
00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:47,400
Speaker 1: of jealousy within the family dynamic. But this all kind

164
00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:49,200
Speaker 1: of happens when we're young, and as we get older,

165
00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:52,920
Speaker 1: we do understand jealousy a bit better, especially because we've

166
00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:55,360
Speaker 1: been able to navigate it in the past or having

167
00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:59,160
Speaker 1: had experiences that have taught us what to expect. But

168
00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:03,360
Speaker 1: if you're always, if you always handle jealousy by first

169
00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:07,560
Speaker 1: letting the anger take over and seeking to avoid the pain,

170
00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:10,560
Speaker 1: by ignoring those feelings or acting in something or from

171
00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:14,160
Speaker 1: someplace other than your wise mind, then you will create

172
00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:18,120
Speaker 1: a behavioral pattern in reaction to these feelings. So when

173
00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:21,959
Speaker 1: you feel threatened, this acts as a trigger. So behavioral

174
00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:26,720
Speaker 1: models in psychology explain this really, really well. So behaviorism

175
00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:31,760
Speaker 1: is the kind of area that probably best relates to this.

176
00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:37,440
Speaker 1: So at first, threatening situations that create jealousy act as

177
00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:42,600
Speaker 1: the unconditioned stimulus. So essentially, we naturally feel angry and anxious,

178
00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:47,280
Speaker 1: perhaps experienced grief if you know, our partner was talking

179
00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:49,520
Speaker 1: to other people, or someone we know got a job

180
00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:53,080
Speaker 1: we really wanted. However, say that your reaction to that

181
00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:56,000
Speaker 1: jealousy is to cut these people off, is to suppress

182
00:10:56,040 --> 00:11:00,319
Speaker 1: the emotion not address it. After this reaction is repeatingly

183
00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:03,720
Speaker 1: paired with the jealous feelings over time, Soon we'll just

184
00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:09,199
Speaker 1: behave this way unconsciously, unconsciously without even realizing it. So

185
00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:12,480
Speaker 1: you start to even avoid situations where you believe you

186
00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:16,040
Speaker 1: might be made to feel jealous, so avoiding relationships or

187
00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:20,000
Speaker 1: leaving the moment that you feel like you're not valued

188
00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:22,880
Speaker 1: or there's someone to be envious of. So it can

189
00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:26,360
Speaker 1: become pretty easy to be what we know as a

190
00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:29,600
Speaker 1: jealous person. But are some people They are more prone

191
00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:34,040
Speaker 1: to jealousy than others. So psychological factors that lead to

192
00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:37,400
Speaker 1: a jealous personality type may include low self esteem, which

193
00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:40,800
Speaker 1: we talked about, So a sense of inadequacy is often

194
00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:44,800
Speaker 1: a cause of jealousy that isn't relationship dependent. People who

195
00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:49,520
Speaker 1: feel inadequate don't present their sense of personal impotence in

196
00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:54,160
Speaker 1: relationships alone, and this suggests that it has a lot

197
00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:57,760
Speaker 1: more to do with a person's reflection of themselves more

198
00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:03,360
Speaker 1: than just sexual or intimate possessiveness. Some other factors which

199
00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:10,319
Speaker 1: have been consistently linked to a jealous personality type is anxiety, moodiness, depression,

200
00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:14,840
Speaker 1: if you've got possessiveness and securities, a fear of abandonment,

201
00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:18,440
Speaker 1: which I really want to talk about in an upcoming

202
00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:22,240
Speaker 1: episode because I think it would be really interesting if

203
00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:26,200
Speaker 1: you have a tendency towards codependency as well, and kind

204
00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:28,480
Speaker 1: of alongside that fear of abandonment, if you have an

205
00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:33,960
Speaker 1: anxious attachment style. So when someone's personality is perhaps dominated

206
00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:37,240
Speaker 1: by any or all of these factors, jealousy it's not

207
00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:39,880
Speaker 1: likely going to be a foreign emotion for them, and

208
00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:42,800
Speaker 1: this can make it hard to have long lasting and

209
00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:47,559
Speaker 1: meaningful relationships then, both romantic and in the friends sense,

210
00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:50,600
Speaker 1: when we are in our twenties, especially if you have

211
00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:57,880
Speaker 1: acquired that learned response to situations that stir up jealous feelings. Okay,

212
00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:02,440
Speaker 1: so far we've really demonstrate how jealousy is very much

213
00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:07,680
Speaker 1: a relational combination of emotions, So it emerges primarily in

214
00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:12,640
Speaker 1: response to our social relationships with others, particularly close relationships

215
00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:17,400
Speaker 1: such as friendships or romantic connections. And I've really tried

216
00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:21,160
Speaker 1: to stress my perspective at least that jealousy is a

217
00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:24,840
Speaker 1: natural emotional state in its pure form at least, but

218
00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:29,040
Speaker 1: it then can slowly become cultivated and more prominent due

219
00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:33,400
Speaker 1: to reinforcing behaviors. So if my interpretation is correct, not

220
00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:35,360
Speaker 1: saying that it is, but this is just what I've

221
00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:40,160
Speaker 1: kind of gathered. Envy and jealousy. They are intrinsic and

222
00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:44,480
Speaker 1: can be very powerful emotions. Yeah, but not those that

223
00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:47,240
Speaker 1: we need to flee from or feel embarrassed by, as

224
00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:50,240
Speaker 1: long as we communicate with others and react to those

225
00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:53,280
Speaker 1: twinges from a wise mind. Douse, my therapist would say,

226
00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:56,720
Speaker 1: shout out to Josie, but not an emotional mind. So

227
00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:59,320
Speaker 1: a wise mind is the best way to go about

228
00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:04,679
Speaker 1: dealing with with feelings of jealousy. But let's offer another perspective.

229
00:14:04,679 --> 00:14:07,600
Speaker 1: We're not one sided on this show. We all know

230
00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:10,960
Speaker 1: that in our twenties, relationships they don't all tend to

231
00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:13,920
Speaker 1: look the same way. There's a lot more freedom to

232
00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:18,200
Speaker 1: be experimental or do things differently, whether that's by keeping

233
00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:22,960
Speaker 1: a relationship open, being polly friends with benefits. It's no

234
00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:27,440
Speaker 1: longer the standard man and women girlfriend and boyfriend situation

235
00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:31,120
Speaker 1: for many many reasons, and I think especially during this time.

236
00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:34,000
Speaker 1: You know, why don't you keep a relationship open if

237
00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:36,000
Speaker 1: it's something that you both feel comfortable with. You know,

238
00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:38,360
Speaker 1: we're young, there are a lot of people out there

239
00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:42,120
Speaker 1: to love, and we have our whole lives to be

240
00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:46,520
Speaker 1: coupled with one person, if that's inevitably what you decide

241
00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:51,920
Speaker 1: to do. So the reason I'm introducing polly and open

242
00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:55,360
Speaker 1: relationships is because it kind of provides a counter argument

243
00:14:55,400 --> 00:15:00,360
Speaker 1: to this idea that jealousy is intrinsic. So polly and

244
00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:03,200
Speaker 1: open relationships, they're not a new thing. You know, non

245
00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:07,000
Speaker 1: monogamy dates all the way back to BCA times. There's

246
00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:11,680
Speaker 1: evidence that's existed in Rome, China, Mongolia. It's also permitted

247
00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:15,840
Speaker 1: a number of religions, obviously Islam, where it's acceptable to

248
00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:18,000
Speaker 1: have up to four wabs, but obviously also in the

249
00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:22,920
Speaker 1: Mormon faith as well. But it hasn't been you know,

250
00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:26,040
Speaker 1: all around, very accepted or welcomed in the previous century,

251
00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:31,120
Speaker 1: just in everyday life. And you know, until now, you know,

252
00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:34,760
Speaker 1: it wasn't really something that people looked into, whereas these days,

253
00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:37,480
Speaker 1: you know, you probably could find people who have this

254
00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:41,600
Speaker 1: type of relationship and it really works for them. Also,

255
00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:44,800
Speaker 1: i think it's probably important to recognize that historical and

256
00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:48,880
Speaker 1: modern polyamory they're very different things. You know, his historical

257
00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:51,680
Speaker 1: non monogamy, it was primarily for the purpose of procreation

258
00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:54,800
Speaker 1: or reproduction, whereas now it can be for more reasons

259
00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:57,640
Speaker 1: than just that. Okay, that was a bit of a

260
00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:02,040
Speaker 1: historical to tangent or digression, the purpose of which was

261
00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:06,440
Speaker 1: to introduce the idea that perhaps jealousy is not natural

262
00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:11,840
Speaker 1: in romantic relationships. As I've previously suggested, so, polyamorous couples

263
00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:14,080
Speaker 1: are often able to know that their partner was with

264
00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:17,920
Speaker 1: other people and not experienced jealousy, and people in poly

265
00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:21,280
Speaker 1: relationships tend to hold the idea that jealousy is actually

266
00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:25,400
Speaker 1: culturally instilled to us, especially at a young age and

267
00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:29,840
Speaker 1: in Western societies, where being envious of people can make

268
00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:34,520
Speaker 1: us more competitive, which helps motivate success and accumulation, which

269
00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:37,600
Speaker 1: are things of a lot of value in many Western cultures.

270
00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:43,440
Speaker 1: Much like a lot of the psychological theory suggests, people

271
00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:47,880
Speaker 1: in healthy polyamorous relationships may view jealousy more as an

272
00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:51,320
Speaker 1: indication of a deeper sense of insecurity that has been

273
00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:55,040
Speaker 1: created by this deeper social narrative, rather than being due

274
00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:59,520
Speaker 1: to some innate sense of sexual possessiveness or jealousy that

275
00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:04,520
Speaker 1: you know, an evolutionary perspective might say is the case,

276
00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:09,800
Speaker 1: and this has some pretty surprising evidence that suggests jealousy

277
00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:15,680
Speaker 1: may be cultural and socially specific. So one study hypothesized

278
00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:20,760
Speaker 1: that aggression in jealousy situations it's correlated with the cultural

279
00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:25,000
Speaker 1: importance attached to being married, are the limitations placed on

280
00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:29,919
Speaker 1: non marital and extra marital sexual gratification. It's also linked

281
00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:33,760
Speaker 1: to the emphasis of private property within a society and

282
00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:38,760
Speaker 1: the requirement of personal descendants. So in societies where these

283
00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:43,720
Speaker 1: social ideas are not dominant, feelings of jealousy are suspected

284
00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:48,280
Speaker 1: to be to be less. And furthermore, in male dominated societies,

285
00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:51,640
Speaker 1: jealousy was likely to be more common amongst all genders

286
00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:54,320
Speaker 1: as well. This was another thing that they suggested, and

287
00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:59,720
Speaker 1: the findings did show that in cultures that were less

288
00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:04,280
Speaker 1: forcased on these certain characteristics of the social fabric, such

289
00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:10,359
Speaker 1: as being married and having offspring, jealousy was less. Particularly

290
00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:13,439
Speaker 1: of the four cultures that researchers examine, time men and

291
00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:17,760
Speaker 1: women were less likely to express jealousy, as were pre

292
00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:24,320
Speaker 1: industrial communities or those where obviously polyamory is the cultural norm.

293
00:18:24,359 --> 00:18:27,760
Speaker 1: I think it is important to say though, although these

294
00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:32,000
Speaker 1: groups did experience less jealousy, it was not at a

295
00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:38,000
Speaker 1: level of being completely nonexistent. So jealousy, although it's culturally

296
00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:42,200
Speaker 1: influenced in the frequency and intensity of expression, it does

297
00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:47,800
Speaker 1: still seem to be universal in nature. Okay, So, if

298
00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:51,840
Speaker 1: you're in your twenties and you're feeling that jealousy spike

299
00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:55,679
Speaker 1: when you see your friends hanging out, or you know

300
00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:58,840
Speaker 1: your partner's messaging someone else, or a coworkers getting more

301
00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:04,640
Speaker 1: intention from your boss, do not fret for two reasons. Firstly,

302
00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:08,320
Speaker 1: feelings of jealousy are unnatural, they're attached to some of

303
00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:12,360
Speaker 1: our most fundamental emotions. And secondly, it's equally not your

304
00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:15,639
Speaker 1: fault due to elements of our culture and that emphasis

305
00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:19,439
Speaker 1: on possession as well as or possession is also as

306
00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:23,760
Speaker 1: an attribute of success and dominance. So this fuels the

307
00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:27,560
Speaker 1: need to have feelings of jealousy in order to motivate

308
00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:29,960
Speaker 1: us to hold on to things that we see of

309
00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:36,800
Speaker 1: as having value. Obviously, this does not give anyone listening

310
00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:39,440
Speaker 1: the permission or the excuse to move into the territory

311
00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:44,200
Speaker 1: of being pathologically jealous. So pathological jealousy it's when these

312
00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:49,440
Speaker 1: feelings become clinical. It's also sometimes known as delusion or disorder.

313
00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:53,680
Speaker 1: Look into it. It's it's kind of like a form

314
00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:57,800
Speaker 1: of Schizzo effective disorder, and it occurs when people have

315
00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:03,280
Speaker 1: these intrusive and repetitive but crucially, they're unfounded. They have

316
00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:07,760
Speaker 1: these repetitive ideas that their romantic partner is cheating on them,

317
00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:11,919
Speaker 1: essentially leading to increasingly possessive behavior. So, but there's no

318
00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:15,160
Speaker 1: evidence of that, it's a delusion hence delusion or disorder.

319
00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:18,639
Speaker 1: But it's really hard to treat. You know, these people

320
00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:21,600
Speaker 1: have an unnatural pattern of thinking that has breached the

321
00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:25,760
Speaker 1: territory of needing treatment and they very rarely have control

322
00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:28,920
Speaker 1: over these jealous delusions. So it's it's it's a psychiatric

323
00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:32,680
Speaker 1: disorder essentially, and although there is evidence that people can

324
00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:36,720
Speaker 1: take antipsychotics, often the only way to overcome this disorder

325
00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:41,000
Speaker 1: is to become comfortable with the idea that you know, yes,

326
00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:44,640
Speaker 1: your partner might be cheating on you, even if there

327
00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:47,280
Speaker 1: is no evidence. So you kind of have to live

328
00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:51,080
Speaker 1: in the idea that this could be true, but you're

329
00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:54,200
Speaker 1: okay with it. And a therapist would want their patient

330
00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:56,399
Speaker 1: to accept this as a possibility, but also to be

331
00:20:56,440 --> 00:21:01,000
Speaker 1: able to move forward. So basically the outcome for this

332
00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:05,600
Speaker 1: disorder is that jealousy is never fully eliminated and it

333
00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:08,639
Speaker 1: never really goes away. You still have a distrust of

334
00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:11,520
Speaker 1: the person that you're with. You just learn to manage

335
00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:16,919
Speaker 1: it better. So that is a pretty bleak outlook. But

336
00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:20,520
Speaker 1: then again, we are talking about a disordered version of jealousy.

337
00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:23,320
Speaker 1: So for the average Joe in their twenties or whatever

338
00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:26,960
Speaker 1: age you might be, jealousy can be reduced and no,

339
00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:32,560
Speaker 1: you do not need antipsychotics to do it, fortunately enough. So,

340
00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:35,000
Speaker 1: seeing as jealousy can be brought on by so many

341
00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:37,959
Speaker 1: varying factors, there's no really standard cure for the emotion,

342
00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:40,719
Speaker 1: and in my opinion, I think if you can manage

343
00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:43,840
Speaker 1: it in a healthy manner, it's not actually something to

344
00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:47,679
Speaker 1: be avoided. Otherwise you do end up losing control of

345
00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:50,280
Speaker 1: the emotion and that's when it becomes a problem. You know,

346
00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:53,800
Speaker 1: you cannot go through life, especially in such a social

347
00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:58,400
Speaker 1: and relational world, without experiencing jealousy, so you may as

348
00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:01,400
Speaker 1: well become a custom to dealing with it when you're

349
00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:05,080
Speaker 1: in your twenties and have less to lose and heaps

350
00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:07,920
Speaker 1: to learn. So I think just noting that the emotion

351
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:11,040
Speaker 1: exists and is clouding your brain is the most important part.

352
00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:14,639
Speaker 1: So basic acknowledgement therapy. You know, you can self administer,

353
00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:18,480
Speaker 1: you don't have to go to headspace or anything. And jealousy,

354
00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:22,480
Speaker 1: it's it's really normal, and it can be pretty tricky

355
00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:25,960
Speaker 1: to thing to navigate when we're in our twenties. For example,

356
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:28,840
Speaker 1: you know, I found out my ex has a new girlfriend,

357
00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:32,479
Speaker 1: and obviously there's some pretty intense jealousy followed with that.

358
00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:37,399
Speaker 1: But understanding why I felt triggered and uncovering the emotions

359
00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:41,320
Speaker 1: leading up to it, the insecurity that was creating this feeling,

360
00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:44,720
Speaker 1: was really really useful. So when did I start feeling

361
00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:47,200
Speaker 1: this way? Why do I feel threatened? Is it because

362
00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:51,600
Speaker 1: I'm missing something? And what part of my personality are

363
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:54,560
Speaker 1: involved in these feelings of jealousy? Because I don't love

364
00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:56,520
Speaker 1: this person anymore. I haven't been with them for a

365
00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:59,520
Speaker 1: very long time. Why is it only now that that

366
00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:03,399
Speaker 1: possessed is kind of clicking in? And I have this

367
00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:07,239
Speaker 1: really good phrase that I use all the time. My

368
00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:09,639
Speaker 1: friends know this, but I just think it's a really

369
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:13,480
Speaker 1: great way to explain this. And this is the phrase.

370
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:17,280
Speaker 1: If it still triggers you, if it still makes you jealous,

371
00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:20,840
Speaker 1: then you still have some healing to do. Because jealousy,

372
00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:24,080
Speaker 1: you know it's coming from an internal place or a

373
00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:28,320
Speaker 1: sense of inadequacy, So addressing that root issue first will

374
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:33,080
Speaker 1: do wonders to lessen envy towards anyone really, So yeah,

375
00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:35,520
Speaker 1: if it still triggers you, if it still makes you jealous,

376
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:39,400
Speaker 1: then you still have some healing to do. And there

377
00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:42,760
Speaker 1: is no magical cute or jealousy can be analyzed and

378
00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:46,280
Speaker 1: likely avoided in the future. Yes, but it's never going

379
00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:49,359
Speaker 1: to be completely eliminated. And if you would like to

380
00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:51,879
Speaker 1: reach that point, I think it would just include heaps

381
00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:54,919
Speaker 1: of mindful nerves, heaps of therapy. You'd have to have

382
00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:59,520
Speaker 1: a lot of honest and intimate conversations, which you're very

383
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:01,399
Speaker 1: much well come to do. But it does seem like

384
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:04,119
Speaker 1: a bit a bit of a challenge. You may as

385
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:07,040
Speaker 1: well just accept it, have those conversations and move on.

386
00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:09,520
Speaker 1: And I know I have stressed as heaps and it

387
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:12,720
Speaker 1: can get a little bit preachy. But whether jealousy is

388
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:16,080
Speaker 1: culturally mediated or intrinsic, whichever theory you choose to believe,

389
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:19,480
Speaker 1: it's not something that can be ignored. You know, if

390
00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:23,320
Speaker 1: you approach the entirety of your younger years simply looking

391
00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:27,800
Speaker 1: to avoid pain or feelings of insecurity, what are you

392
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:31,280
Speaker 1: really getting out of your life? You know, of the

393
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:34,200
Speaker 1: avoidance of pain, there's a tradeoff for that, and the

394
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:36,920
Speaker 1: avoidance of jealousy. There's also a tradeoff for that as well.

395
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:40,119
Speaker 1: So embrace a healthy amount of jealousy. Let it remind

396
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:42,919
Speaker 1: you of what you need to work on personally and internally.

397
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:46,600
Speaker 1: Don't just project it onto the actions of other people.

398
00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:49,720
Speaker 1: But what is your ego trying to communicate to you?

399
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:52,800
Speaker 1: And move from there? Just be open, be honest, acknowledged

400
00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:55,000
Speaker 1: the feelings without kind of letting it fuck things up

401
00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:58,480
Speaker 1: too much. So, yeah, why is note to finish on?

402
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:02,080
Speaker 1: I think I always provide like this very considered life

403
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:04,560
Speaker 1: advice at the end, whereas I'm over here being like,

404
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:06,520
Speaker 1: I get jealous all the time. I'm not afraid to

405
00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:10,000
Speaker 1: hide it. But yeah, there's there's my two cents on

406
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:13,360
Speaker 1: the topic. And I really hope you enjoyed this episode.

407
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 1: It was really really interesting to look into, I think

408
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:21,879
Speaker 1: because I've had these feelings of jealousy recently and it

409
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:24,240
Speaker 1: kind of got me down. I was like I'm not

410
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:27,760
Speaker 1: really a naturally jealous person like I was saying. It

411
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 1: was in relation to someone that I don't really care

412
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:32,720
Speaker 1: about anymore, you know, I don't really need them in

413
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:37,240
Speaker 1: my life. Really moved on, but it was like a

414
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:42,240
Speaker 1: reminder of losing something that once I really valued. So yeah,

415
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:44,800
Speaker 1: I did a lot of kind of self acknowledgement therapy

416
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:49,840
Speaker 1: around it, and happy to report I am feeling okay now,

417
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:53,120
Speaker 1: but yeah, sorry, a little bit of a tangent. Thanks

418
00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:55,760
Speaker 1: for listening, by the way, if you're still here getting

419
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:59,800
Speaker 1: all the juicy goss on my life. Also, if you

420
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:02,000
Speaker 1: are listening this far, let me know how the audio

421
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 1: is because I've changed the thing that I'm recording it

422
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:07,560
Speaker 1: on and I'm sitting in a new location, so it

423
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:12,919
Speaker 1: might be kind of shit. Hopefully it's better. Just please

424
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:16,280
Speaker 1: let me know and remember to follow us on Instagram.

425
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:19,239
Speaker 1: And yeah, you can find this podcast wherever you get

426
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:24,040
Speaker 1: your podcasts Spotify, Apple Music, Google Podcasts, even And I

427
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 1: hope you have an amazing second week of August. You know,

428
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 1: it's fifteen degrees today, the sun is coming. I'm very

429
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:35,399
Speaker 1: excited for some some summer love and some you know,

430
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:39,960
Speaker 1: summer outdoors time and drinks. So anyhow, have an amazing week,

431
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:41,639
Speaker 1: and then thank you so much for listening.