1 00:00:01,760 --> 00:00:08,799 Speaker 1: Body Bats with Joseph Scott Moore. Full disclosure in going 2 00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:15,200 Speaker 1: into this episode today, I've never done an episode like this, 3 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:19,599 Speaker 1: and I felt that since we are in the season 4 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:23,680 Speaker 1: of Giving right now, that I can't think of anything 5 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:26,080 Speaker 1: at this moment in time on my end at least 6 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 1: that would be more apropos than to perhaps speed a 7 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:34,520 Speaker 1: case along, if you will. And the reason I say 8 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:36,400 Speaker 1: that is there is a case that has come to 9 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:40,920 Speaker 1: my attention from our friends at Authorn and this case 10 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:47,479 Speaker 1: actually begins all the way back in nineteen eighty three 11 00:00:48,159 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 1: when there was a small vehicle, actually a Honda Civic 12 00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 1: that was found fully engulfed in flames, and inside that 13 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 1: Honda Civic were the burning remains of a fellow who 14 00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:11,400 Speaker 1: no one still to this day knows what his name is. Now, 15 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:14,160 Speaker 1: the reason I say the Season of Giving is that 16 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:19,639 Speaker 1: Authorm has raised just over I think twenty three hundred 17 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:23,200 Speaker 1: bucks right now in order to get this fellow identified. 18 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 1: And the story that I'm going to lay on you 19 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:29,840 Speaker 1: right now is something I can guarantee that most of 20 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 1: you have never heard the like of. So without further ado, 21 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:38,920 Speaker 1: myself and brother Dave are going to tell you what's 22 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:48,520 Speaker 1: what I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Bodybacks, Dave. 23 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 1: I had to do one of those cartoon double takes 24 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:53,320 Speaker 1: the other day. You know. I didn't have the sound 25 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 1: effect though, you know when I did it, because when 26 00:01:56,720 --> 00:02:01,920 Speaker 1: I saw this case come across my all I could 27 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 1: think of was, wait, did I read that right? Because 28 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 1: it said authorm. But the problem is when it said authoram, 29 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:16,680 Speaker 1: the case is still open, right, And they published an 30 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 1: article about this thing. And then I saw the number 31 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:23,520 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty three, and I saw that there was conviction 32 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:28,080 Speaker 1: in the case. But I saw that there was that 33 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 1: there was not an ID of the victim in This is. 34 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:34,680 Speaker 2: The most jacked up case you've ever said, And you 35 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:37,359 Speaker 2: sent me stuff where people have chopped off their own heads. 36 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:39,840 Speaker 2: I mean, you sent me some crazy stuff, Joe. This 37 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:43,919 Speaker 2: is by far. And here's the kick, friends, I want 38 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 2: to review what Joe just said about authoram and raising money. 39 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 2: AUTHORAM does not get funding from the government or other 40 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 2: agencies when they go to solve these cases that we 41 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:57,000 Speaker 2: oftentimes talk about on the show. 42 00:02:57,400 --> 00:02:58,679 Speaker 3: It's called it's crowdfunding. 43 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 2: It's by people being interested in a particular story, a 44 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:06,080 Speaker 2: particular location and geography. What have you, And that's why 45 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:08,240 Speaker 2: we do them because the work they are doing at 46 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:12,079 Speaker 2: AUTHORM is not being done anywhere else, and they don't 47 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 2: have an unlimited supply of money to get these things done. 48 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 2: I thought they did when we first started. I thought, 49 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:19,080 Speaker 2: surely you know there's money for this. 50 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 3: There is not. 51 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 2: And that's why Joe and I take the time, because 52 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:26,240 Speaker 2: here's the scoop. In nineteen eighty three, May twenty eighth, 53 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:31,120 Speaker 2: nineteen eighty three, the death of Edward L. 54 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:31,880 Speaker 3: Kates. 55 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 2: Edward Kates was a former Mississippi Assistant Attorney General. He 56 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 2: was a Jackson City commissioner. This is a fifty five 57 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:49,400 Speaker 2: year old man who was very accomplished, and his car, 58 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 2: a nineteen seventy seven Honda Civic, was found in a field, 59 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 2: fully engulfed and in flames, and a body charred beyond 60 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 2: the ability to be positively identified. So they used what 61 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 2: they had at the time, basic information license plate, who 62 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 2: owned the car, basic size of the charred remains, and decided, well, 63 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 2: this must be Edward Kates. So they actually had a 64 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 2: funeral for mister Kates because he was a veteran. It 65 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:29,719 Speaker 2: was a full military funeral and it was a sad 66 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 2: day for the people of that area, a public servant, 67 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:37,800 Speaker 2: you know, the whole nine. The thing is, they never 68 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:41,560 Speaker 2: got a positive id on the corpse. They buried it 69 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:47,160 Speaker 2: as Edward Kates. But a couple of weeks after all 70 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:52,279 Speaker 2: of this happens, Joe, Edward Kate's wife or ex wife 71 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 2: starts getting money orders from different places in Georgia from 72 00:04:59,839 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 2: a a man named Kurtz. Kurtz curts, Now, when your 73 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 2: wife starts getting money in the mail from somebody they 74 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:14,839 Speaker 2: don't know, she's got two choices and it really goes 75 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:18,960 Speaker 2: to her character. Some women would cash it and go on, 76 00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:24,320 Speaker 2: you know, hey, free money, but not missus. Kate's something 77 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:26,599 Speaker 2: hit her as not quite right. 78 00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:27,839 Speaker 3: Now. 79 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 2: She knew who her husband was, and you're going to 80 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:32,360 Speaker 2: find out who he was as well in a minute. 81 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:36,640 Speaker 2: But she calls her attorney and says, something's up with this. 82 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:40,680 Speaker 2: Her attorney says, yeah, you're right, and the attorney calls 83 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:43,279 Speaker 2: investigators on the case because they're still trying to figure 84 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:46,080 Speaker 2: out what really happened because they don't know Joe. All 85 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:48,480 Speaker 2: they know is we got the body of this guy 86 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 2: and we couldn't even identify it. Something's not right. Couldn't 87 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:57,360 Speaker 2: they know, didn't they know when they buried the body 88 00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:01,000 Speaker 2: that an accelerant had been used on body? I mean, 89 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 2: what could they tell Joe, Because they did not bury 90 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:05,840 Speaker 2: Edward L. 91 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:07,600 Speaker 3: Kates. They buried somebody. 92 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:10,360 Speaker 2: But that's why we're doing the show today, because friends, 93 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:14,400 Speaker 2: they buried a body, but it wasn't Edward L. 94 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:17,799 Speaker 3: Kates. Edward Kates faked his death. 95 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:20,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I was. 96 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:21,719 Speaker 3: Yeah. 97 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 1: When I was telling you about this. When I was 98 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:27,360 Speaker 1: telling you about this case the other day, it brought 99 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 1: to mind one of my favorite Matthew Perry movies. As 100 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 1: a matter of fact, one of my favorite Bruce Willis 101 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 1: movies is The Whole Nine Yards, one of the funniest 102 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:38,120 Speaker 1: movies I have ever seen. It might not be to 103 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:42,400 Speaker 1: everyone's taste, but it actually involved a circumstance that's kind 104 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 1: of similar to this, but it was all mob related 105 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 1: and all that sort of stuff, you know, like Hollywood does, 106 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:50,600 Speaker 1: and it was much more complex, So I don't know, 107 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 1: maybe it wasn't much more complex. What was really interesting, though, 108 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:58,200 Speaker 1: is that you know, this is this is out of 109 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 1: this is out of Mississippi and up around north where 110 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 1: the car was found was actually up north of Jackson. 111 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 1: So if you're if you're coming out of Jackson and 112 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 1: you're on the major thoroughfare there, it's I think it's 113 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:20,760 Speaker 1: Highway fifty five. Are Interstate fifty five that will of 114 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 1: course take you, you know, take you all the way 115 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 1: to Memphis, running parallel to the Natchez trace. This car 116 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:32,920 Speaker 1: was found and the sheriff at the time said, could 117 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:35,480 Speaker 1: be an accident. Don't really know. 118 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 2: I actually got his direct quote, Joe I found him 119 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 2: on a news piece from nineteen eighty three. This is 120 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:47,440 Speaker 2: what Billy Noble, the sheriff of Madison County at the time, said. 121 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 2: It could be foul play, could be an accidental hard 122 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:52,600 Speaker 2: to say at this particular time. 123 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you don't. And you know with car with 124 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 1: fully involved car fires particular, you've got you've got a 125 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 1: lot of choices, you know, if you if you've got 126 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:08,840 Speaker 1: a home, for instance, that burns up, it's a much 127 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:12,600 Speaker 1: more kind of static thing that's going on. You know. 128 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:18,800 Speaker 1: Back during this time, during nineteen eighty three, there were 129 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 1: in the news, in the news if you remember going 130 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:28,480 Speaker 1: to the Ford Motor Company, there were you know, cases 131 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:31,280 Speaker 1: of pentos blowing up, you know, and that had continued 132 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 1: on into the early early eighties, you know, and people 133 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:38,640 Speaker 1: people died in those things. And then afterwards if you 134 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:41,480 Speaker 1: remember the Ugo, I don't know if you recall the Ugo. 135 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:47,080 Speaker 1: I worked a couple of Yugo fires where they collided, Yeah, 136 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:50,400 Speaker 1: where they collided with another vehicle and exploded. I remember 137 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:56,520 Speaker 1: one that got so hot. I was on I eighty 138 00:08:56,600 --> 00:09:02,120 Speaker 1: five in Atlanta and Dave this thing, this thing ignited. 139 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:07,000 Speaker 1: It was five guys from Guatemala that had been working 140 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:10,719 Speaker 1: at the airport all night and they were on their 141 00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:13,640 Speaker 1: way home to their apartment that they all shared. They'd 142 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 1: been cleaning like ash trays and doing upholstery cleaning on 143 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:23,360 Speaker 1: jets down at Hartsfield, and one of the guys, in 144 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 1: an effort to get out of the vehicle, knocked out 145 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 1: the vent window on the side in a you go 146 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:29,840 Speaker 1: and tried to climb out, and I'll never forget half 147 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:32,880 Speaker 1: of his body was hanging out. The whole thing went up. 148 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:38,720 Speaker 1: So you had cases back then where the gas tank 149 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 1: is literally located in this really dangerous area right beneath 150 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 1: the rear seat, and these things will explode. But then 151 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:49,720 Speaker 1: you have to think about, well, is this an explosion 152 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:54,440 Speaker 1: related event or is this some kind of ignitable event 153 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:58,199 Speaker 1: where something like an accelerant has been applied to a 154 00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 1: vehicle and the whole thing catches up on fire. What 155 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:04,600 Speaker 1: kind of sustainability? Because you know, if you just take 156 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 1: a match, Dave, and you throw it into the interior 157 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:10,800 Speaker 1: of a car, you might burn your seat, you might 158 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 1: burn the carpet, but the thing is not going to 159 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 1: like catch fire and the whole thing is going to 160 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 1: burn down. You have to have an initient what's referred 161 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 1: to as an initient with this and some kind of 162 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:28,319 Speaker 1: chemical compound, primarily some kind of accelerant like gas or 163 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:32,120 Speaker 1: I guess you could use a road flare, but like 164 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:36,280 Speaker 1: with gas that has some kind of sustainability where it vaporizes, 165 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:41,080 Speaker 1: the air actually kind of catches on fire superheated in 166 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:43,720 Speaker 1: this environment. So those things that have like a high 167 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:46,760 Speaker 1: burning point, like a carpet or an upholstery on the seat, 168 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:49,680 Speaker 1: they're going to get so hot in there that the 169 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:52,839 Speaker 1: thing will ignite and begin to burn. Think about it 170 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:55,440 Speaker 1: is if any and I urge anybody within the sound 171 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:57,840 Speaker 1: of my voice right now, if you've never seen a 172 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:03,319 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy seven HOTDA Civic, please do yourself a favor 173 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:07,640 Speaker 1: and go take a look at it. Kimmy's father actually 174 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:10,040 Speaker 1: had one that he commuted. He was an air traff 175 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 1: controller in Hampton, Georgian and he actually commuted back and 176 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 1: forth in one yellow one had it for you still 177 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:19,720 Speaker 1: had it when we got married in the late nineties, 178 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:22,839 Speaker 1: and he swore by that car. But this scene is 179 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 1: so tight, I'm sorry. 180 00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:25,880 Speaker 3: Most people swear at them. 181 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:29,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I don't know. It was a Honda, you know, 182 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:31,080 Speaker 1: and it would and you know, it sounds like a 183 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:33,359 Speaker 1: go kart when it runs, but it was rather dependable. 184 00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:35,120 Speaker 1: But you know, the thing about it is if you 185 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 1: get inside of a closed space, Dave, and you've got 186 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:41,920 Speaker 1: accelerant in there. First off, every bit of oxygen is 187 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:44,439 Speaker 1: going to be consumed in the twinkling of an eye, 188 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:47,680 Speaker 1: all right. So if you're thinking about someone being alive 189 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:51,040 Speaker 1: in the vehicle, every bit of breathable air in there 190 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:54,120 Speaker 1: is gone. And people don't think about that most of 191 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 1: the time. The other thing that happens if you're alive 192 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:02,760 Speaker 1: inside of a vehicle is that superheated air, okay, that 193 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:06,680 Speaker 1: you breathe in. Did you know this day that we 194 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 1: can look into the mouth and into the airway of 195 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:19,200 Speaker 1: a victim at autopsy, and we will see these highly 196 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:23,560 Speaker 1: irritated focal areas of trauma inside the airway because of 197 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:26,920 Speaker 1: the heat that the airways being subjected to. Okay, now 198 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:29,480 Speaker 1: you don't get these. You don't get these if like 199 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:31,840 Speaker 1: you just throw a body in there and set them 200 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 1: on fire. So the actual airway itself, the nostrils, the mouth, 201 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 1: they'll they'll all sustain this kind of trauma. Just imagine 202 00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:46,520 Speaker 1: the worst sore throat you can ever imagine, and multiplied 203 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:50,240 Speaker 1: by factor of a thousand, and so that superheated air 204 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 1: is now going down into the lungs. You have all 205 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:59,679 Speaker 1: these inflammatory changes that at a cellular level initiate almost immediately. Then, 206 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:02,720 Speaker 1: don't top of that, you're still breathing for a second. 207 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:08,560 Speaker 1: So you remember how I mentioned the carpet, the seats, Okay, 208 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:11,559 Speaker 1: the gear lever, the steering wheel that's covered in plastic. 209 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:15,760 Speaker 1: Now you're breathing all that debris in as well. So 210 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:19,000 Speaker 1: not only do you have this kind of debris that 211 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:23,080 Speaker 1: turns into almost like ash that's floating about, did you 212 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:26,040 Speaker 1: know that like the chemical substrate that all of these 213 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 1: things are made out of, And did you know a 214 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:30,319 Speaker 1: couple of these things are like heavy metal. It releases 215 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:33,200 Speaker 1: like arsenic into the air. You'll see this inside of 216 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:35,600 Speaker 1: homes as well. And of course all this stuff is 217 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:39,720 Speaker 1: petroleum based. You'll get those levels in the bloodstream if 218 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:42,600 Speaker 1: they breathe it. You know, there'll be trace amounts of this. 219 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:45,560 Speaker 1: Not to mention the you know, I'm always talking about 220 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:49,000 Speaker 1: carbox of hemoglobin level which comes about as a result 221 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:53,600 Speaker 1: of breathing, breathing in carbon monoxide. So you get all 222 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 1: of these kind of chemical indicators relative to were they 223 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:03,640 Speaker 1: alive or where dead at the time of this. But 224 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:06,560 Speaker 1: I got to tell you, with this case that we're 225 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 1: talking about today, this unknown subject that still to this 226 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:16,560 Speaker 1: day remains unknown, it's not just what he was breathing, 227 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:23,200 Speaker 1: oh my lord, it was the trauma he sustained as well. 228 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:40,200 Speaker 1: All I gotta tell you. You know, when you're just 229 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:44,520 Speaker 1: coming off with Thanksgiving, you talk about things you're thankful for. Well, 230 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:47,480 Speaker 1: first off Thanksgiving, I'm thankful for Dave mac. I'm thankful 231 00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 1: for him that he's in my life and he's my partner. 232 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 1: And secondly I am he's one of the best gifts 233 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:58,040 Speaker 1: I can possibly receive at Christmas time. And here is 234 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:03,040 Speaker 1: why this man knows no boundaries when it comes to 235 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:06,960 Speaker 1: collecting data. He is absolutely amazing. And this is an 236 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 1: old cold case and Dave has created, I would say, Dave, 237 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:19,640 Speaker 1: probably one of the most robust injury lists that you 238 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:24,640 Speaker 1: and I have potentially ever had on any episode of 239 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:28,240 Speaker 1: Body Bags. And it was even it was even kind 240 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:31,840 Speaker 1: of surprising to me, and you were kind of excited 241 00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 1: about it in a good way, because that's what we 242 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:38,160 Speaker 1: do on body Bags, Right, we talked about trauma. Now 243 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:43,760 Speaker 1: from your perspective, let's just go through some of these insults. 244 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:45,720 Speaker 1: Will put it and put it to you that way 245 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:50,880 Speaker 1: that this body has sustained this body that has no name, okay, 246 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:53,600 Speaker 1: has no name. He's the unknown person. He's like high 247 00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:56,200 Speaker 1: planes drifter. We had no idea who he is. All right, 248 00:15:56,240 --> 00:15:58,680 Speaker 1: So Dave, let. 249 00:15:58,600 --> 00:15:59,160 Speaker 3: Me just shaw you. 250 00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:02,160 Speaker 2: What caught my attention and what made me go back 251 00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:06,160 Speaker 2: and dig further is I went back to the nineteen 252 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:09,600 Speaker 2: eighty three news reports and was looking at different quotes 253 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:12,880 Speaker 2: and different things from officials, including the sheriff you know, 254 00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:15,160 Speaker 2: who said we don't know, we don't know what happened. 255 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:19,160 Speaker 2: Now you've got a guy, Edward Cates, who was a 256 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 2: former assistant Attorney General he's on the city council. This 257 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:25,960 Speaker 2: is a man who was very involved and engaged in 258 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:28,640 Speaker 2: a lot of different things, and a very well known lawyer. 259 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:29,800 Speaker 3: And so. 260 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:33,440 Speaker 2: That's that's not cutting it with me. To not have 261 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 2: an answer on that just bothered me. But it bothered 262 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:40,240 Speaker 2: me that that the fire was that they went with, Well, 263 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:42,840 Speaker 2: it's his car, it must be him, you know that 264 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:44,480 Speaker 2: just does that doesn't cut it with me. And this 265 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:47,400 Speaker 2: is again nineteen eighty three. It's not ancient times. We're 266 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:50,880 Speaker 2: not drawing cave drawings here. So hey, I can I'll 267 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:54,040 Speaker 2: say something real quick there. I think that's fascinating that 268 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:56,960 Speaker 2: he is. Let me see if I can get this right. 269 00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:02,080 Speaker 2: Come on that he is not just a government official, 270 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:08,040 Speaker 2: he's also a prosecuting government official. Yeah, Dave, this just 271 00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:09,560 Speaker 2: kind of came to mind. Do you think that he 272 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:14,040 Speaker 2: had an awareness perhaps of how this case would be handled? 273 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:16,840 Speaker 3: He knew it from the beginning to the end. 274 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:21,480 Speaker 1: And because he's going to have an insight that nobody 275 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:24,160 Speaker 1: else would, he's got the thousand and thirty thousand foot 276 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:27,040 Speaker 1: view on cases and how they operate. I don't know. 277 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:28,760 Speaker 1: It just kind of I had to say that. I 278 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:29,440 Speaker 1: had to say. 279 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:32,199 Speaker 2: That well, we know so much about the ending, you know, 280 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:38,119 Speaker 2: we know the end. That's why I mentioned his undoing. Okay, 281 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:42,399 Speaker 2: after he's after they bury Edward Kates with a full 282 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:46,679 Speaker 2: military funeral. A couple of weeks later, his wife starts 283 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:50,720 Speaker 2: getting money orders that are sent from various locations around Georgia, 284 00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:54,840 Speaker 2: and they hone in on it. Because she's not expecting 285 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:59,119 Speaker 2: anything from anyone, she gives it to her lawyer. The 286 00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:03,240 Speaker 2: lawyer turns to investigation. Within thirty days, they tracked down 287 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:06,320 Speaker 2: this ain't Edward Kate's in the ground. Edward Kates is 288 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:09,159 Speaker 2: in an apartment in Lawrenceville, Georgia, which is just outside 289 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:09,640 Speaker 2: of Atlanta. 290 00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 3: Drive up eighty five north. 291 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 2: Now, when the reason I tell you that now is 292 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:21,200 Speaker 2: because now that you know he faked his own death, 293 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 2: and we're trying to identify the person in the car, Joe, 294 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 2: this person that was in the car something. As I 295 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:36,040 Speaker 2: was reading this list of injuries, they were shocking. But 296 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:39,680 Speaker 2: what got me more was that I read through it 297 00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:42,359 Speaker 2: before I went back and made notes, and at the 298 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:46,760 Speaker 2: very ending it says was this individual as a man, 299 00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:52,280 Speaker 2: and he was alive before he was burned. He was 300 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 2: alive before he was burned. Now friends alive before the 301 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 2: fire began. That's what the pathologist ruled. He had this 302 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:08,240 Speaker 2: person in the car had a fracture to his left fibula, 303 00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:17,919 Speaker 2: a fracture to the twelfth thoracic vertebrae, fractures to the seventh, eighth, ninth, tenth, 304 00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:26,080 Speaker 2: eleventh left ribs, and possibly eleventh right rib. The body 305 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:30,880 Speaker 2: was severely burned in the presence of accelerants, and this 306 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:41,440 Speaker 2: burning probably did not cause the apparent absence of teeth. Now, Joe, 307 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:44,840 Speaker 2: I thought that was a powerful thing to include in this, 308 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:50,200 Speaker 2: because you've got a body. By the way, two ribs, 309 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:58,160 Speaker 2: the left, seventh and eighth ribs showed quote fresh fractures 310 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:03,160 Speaker 2: that might have occurred around the time of death or 311 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:09,240 Speaker 2: during post mortem handling. Now, Joseph Scott Morgan, I want 312 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:10,920 Speaker 2: to start with a question there and then you can 313 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:13,360 Speaker 2: break all the rest of this down. But if I'm 314 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:17,960 Speaker 2: a defense attorney, how could you possibly say that we're 315 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:21,480 Speaker 2: not sure about two of these fractures here they might 316 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:23,919 Speaker 2: have occurred during post mortem handling. 317 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:27,160 Speaker 3: Is it possible that all. 318 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:29,720 Speaker 2: Of the fractures were from post mortem handling trying to 319 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:31,800 Speaker 2: get the guy out of the car that's on fire, 320 00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:33,800 Speaker 2: it remains. 321 00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:36,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I don't think that that would be the case, 322 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:40,120 Speaker 1: because the other ones were not specifically identified as having 323 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:47,320 Speaker 1: been of having some type of post mortem identifier. Okay, 324 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:51,479 Speaker 1: I think that the And let me tell you why. Now, 325 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:56,280 Speaker 1: as many of you can imagine, people that are subjected 326 00:20:56,600 --> 00:21:00,680 Speaker 1: to intense heat in these environments are very very fragile. 327 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:04,560 Speaker 1: I mean the bodies are very very fragile. They I've 328 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:08,440 Speaker 1: had them. Let's see, how can I say this. I've 329 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:13,760 Speaker 1: actually had bodies that will depend upon the amount of 330 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:16,919 Speaker 1: heat and the concentration and how long it was sustained. 331 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:20,560 Speaker 1: I've had bodies fracture in my hands or even disintegrate. 332 00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:27,760 Speaker 1: They'll almost pulpify sometimes. And like I'll give you for instance, 333 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:32,400 Speaker 1: I was always weary or leary. Let me rephrase that 334 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:35,480 Speaker 1: I was leary, like if I had a rib cage 335 00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:40,480 Speaker 1: that was exposed, of touching any of the ribs because 336 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:43,920 Speaker 1: because you can actually have them snap off in your hand. 337 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:47,439 Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, one of the one of 338 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:55,600 Speaker 1: the opening chapter actually in my memoir that I talk 339 00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:58,720 Speaker 1: about an event that kind of sets the table for 340 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:01,879 Speaker 1: you know, my my life as a death investigator. And 341 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:09,199 Speaker 1: it happened on Georgia four hundred and it was a 342 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:13,320 Speaker 1: ranger Ford Ranger truck that had died. I mean, a gentleman, 343 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 1: a kid was on the way to work in early 344 00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:19,600 Speaker 1: morning hours and he ran into a bridge abutment and 345 00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:22,920 Speaker 1: the whole thing caught on fire. And I was going 346 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:27,840 Speaker 1: to examine his body inside of the cab because the 347 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:31,800 Speaker 1: body was almost melded to the springs of the seat. 348 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:35,000 Speaker 1: So I was just like looking in the vehicle and 349 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:38,800 Speaker 1: taking photos and everything, and just as I did his, 350 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:42,560 Speaker 1: you have to understand, I'm looking through the past the 351 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 1: driver's window, which is now burst out because of the heat, 352 00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:49,760 Speaker 1: and I'm looking in and kind of wrapping my head around, 353 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:52,719 Speaker 1: and I've got a camera in one hand and going 354 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:56,200 Speaker 1: to transfer it to my left hand. And his he 355 00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:58,880 Speaker 1: was in a pugilistic posture which we see with the 356 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:03,679 Speaker 1: with fire victims where their arms draw up and they 357 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 1: almost look likect their boxing hints pugilistic and his left 358 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:12,720 Speaker 1: his left hand brushed against my right cheek, and I 359 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:16,200 Speaker 1: reached up reactively like this with my left hand and 360 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:19,680 Speaker 1: his hand and his wrists snapped off in my hand. 361 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:24,040 Speaker 1: And that's how fragile, you know, these bodies can be 362 00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:29,920 Speaker 1: so to be able to make that determination on in 363 00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:34,960 Speaker 1: that sense, I think for those two ribs can it's 364 00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:39,720 Speaker 1: it's inconclusive. However, I think that what is significant though, 365 00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:45,600 Speaker 1: is that on the other injuries, the other injuries, they're 366 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:50,159 Speaker 1: noting fractures. And I'm fascinated by the fact that the 367 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:54,000 Speaker 1: lion's share of these fractures. Let me just go back, Yeah, 368 00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:59,399 Speaker 1: and just to validate this just for a second, where 369 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:04,879 Speaker 1: we're talking about the left fibula, which is of course 370 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:10,000 Speaker 1: the fib of fibula. There's two bones in your lower body, 371 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:13,240 Speaker 1: I mean, excuse me, in your lower extremities. So you've 372 00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:16,840 Speaker 1: got the tip fib all right in your lower legs, 373 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:18,639 Speaker 1: and so you've got the left fibula, and you've got 374 00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:29,320 Speaker 1: the right fibula and the left ribs seventh, eighth, ninth, tenth, eleventh, 375 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:33,760 Speaker 1: and possibly the eleventh rib. Dave, these are heavily weighted 376 00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:37,240 Speaker 1: to the left aspect of this guy. I gotta tell you, brother, 377 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:41,600 Speaker 1: when I see this and they're saying that they're not 378 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:45,879 Speaker 1: saying these are post mortem, so you cannot exclude anti 379 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:51,960 Speaker 1: mortem here. Dave just sounds like a pedestrian, this guy, 380 00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:55,879 Speaker 1: because those are consistent with like an impact injury. Like 381 00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:58,240 Speaker 1: if you just think, if people in your mind will 382 00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:00,320 Speaker 1: just envision. I don't know if you guys, I've ever 383 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:03,800 Speaker 1: had that moment in time where where you know, if 384 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:05,879 Speaker 1: you had a lump coal in your butt, you'd wind 385 00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:09,119 Speaker 1: up with a diamond. It gets so tight because it 386 00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 1: scares you to death when you're a pedestrian walkway. I've 387 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,160 Speaker 1: had this happen. I had it happen in London and 388 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:17,240 Speaker 1: because I'm you know, I'm a yank and i wasn't 389 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:22,760 Speaker 1: looking the right direction and her tire screeching. So as 390 00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:26,239 Speaker 1: the car squats, all right, as the car squats and 391 00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:28,440 Speaker 1: the brakes are being applied, it kind of the front 392 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:33,080 Speaker 1: end dips down. Well, if you're walking across the street 393 00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:38,200 Speaker 1: at with your left side exposed, all right, the first 394 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:40,359 Speaker 1: point of impact is probably gonna be your lower leg 395 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:43,800 Speaker 1: or around your knee, all right, So you think about 396 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:47,280 Speaker 1: boom you hit, and then what's your body do? Well, 397 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:51,240 Speaker 1: your body does not get thrown forward, Guess what it does. 398 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:57,040 Speaker 1: It bends and it lands potentially on the leading edge 399 00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 1: of the grill or on the hood, and then the 400 00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:03,080 Speaker 1: car will go over it, okay, and so that would 401 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:05,639 Speaker 1: account for these fractures of the rib cage on the 402 00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:09,560 Speaker 1: left side, which is very very impressive here. I mean, 403 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:14,679 Speaker 1: this is extensive, and that energy transfer went all the 404 00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:18,680 Speaker 1: way through his left side where he's he's actually got 405 00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:21,640 Speaker 1: correct me if I'm wrong, day he's got his twelfth 406 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:26,080 Speaker 1: thoracic vertebra is actually fractured. So that's going to be 407 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:29,480 Speaker 1: like mid range down your back. You've got the cervical 408 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:32,600 Speaker 1: and then you've got the thoracic bodies in there. So 409 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:36,919 Speaker 1: he it would squarely have been like probably at the 410 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:40,280 Speaker 1: level of hang on, keep going back and forth here. 411 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:43,560 Speaker 1: Let me get my anatomy right, probably about the level 412 00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:48,080 Speaker 1: of that ninth tenth rib area where that energy transfer 413 00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:51,040 Speaker 1: is going through on the left side, and it hits 414 00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:56,359 Speaker 1: that eleventh that the twelfth thoracic vertebra, and that bone 415 00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:59,720 Speaker 1: is very robust. You know, probably vertebral bodies are some 416 00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 1: of them, those robust bones in our body. Plus they're 417 00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:06,159 Speaker 1: oddly shaped. Some people refer to them. There's several categories 418 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:09,560 Speaker 1: of types of bones. This is an irregular bone. It's 419 00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:12,919 Speaker 1: got these little points all over it and everything. The 420 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 1: anatomy is kind of fascinating. You know when you take 421 00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:16,520 Speaker 1: a look at it, and of course it's got the 422 00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:19,080 Speaker 1: internal canal that the spinal corp passes through and all that. 423 00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:24,200 Speaker 1: But they're very robust. And they're robust because because they 424 00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:26,680 Speaker 1: have to be. They're protecting the spinal cord. This thing's 425 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:31,600 Speaker 1: fractured day, so there's a specific transfer energy. I'm thinking, 426 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:35,680 Speaker 1: I'm thinking, if this guy just go with me here 427 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:38,919 Speaker 1: just for a second, just indulge my insanity for a second. 428 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:45,399 Speaker 1: What if what if some bright bulb says I'm going 429 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:48,600 Speaker 1: to fake my death. I'm going to ride around until 430 00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:52,159 Speaker 1: I find some poor soul that's just walking across the 431 00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:57,720 Speaker 1: street I don't know, in Jackson, Mississippi, at night, and 432 00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:01,640 Speaker 1: I'm going to run them down. All right, Well, when 433 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:04,399 Speaker 1: I run them down, they're going to be dead. And 434 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:06,920 Speaker 1: if they're not dead, I'm gonna make sure that they're dead, 435 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:08,640 Speaker 1: because you know what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna take 436 00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:11,320 Speaker 1: my little car. I'm gonna drive it up the road 437 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:15,800 Speaker 1: to Canton, Canton, Mississippi, and parking on side of the road, 438 00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:18,760 Speaker 1: and I'm gonna go get you know, a couple of 439 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:22,480 Speaker 1: gallons gasoline poureding cab set the thing on fire, and 440 00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:25,760 Speaker 1: I got my little you know, my little diddy bag, 441 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:28,760 Speaker 1: and I'm off. I go, man, I'm going to disappear 442 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:33,800 Speaker 1: into the Eastern into the Eastern sunrise and leave Mississippi behind. 443 00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:35,639 Speaker 1: I'm just I don't know. That's just one of the 444 00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:39,400 Speaker 1: things I was thinking about at What's fascinating though, is 445 00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:43,920 Speaker 1: that with this case, we don't have I haven't come 446 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:51,760 Speaker 1: across it yet, But I have yet to come across 447 00:28:52,520 --> 00:29:01,800 Speaker 1: any information about the anthropomorphic examination of the body. Okay, like, like, 448 00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:04,880 Speaker 1: what race are we talking about? Because you know, they 449 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:08,040 Speaker 1: can race his skulls. They can do racial determinational skulls. 450 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:13,520 Speaker 1: We can do sex, obviously, we can do age. Now, 451 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:16,800 Speaker 1: I think that they do give an age description, don't they, Dave. 452 00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:21,120 Speaker 2: You know, the original description was twenty five to fifty 453 00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:24,400 Speaker 2: five year old male five foot six inches tall. Okay, 454 00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,040 Speaker 2: that was the initial one. But when they came back 455 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:30,680 Speaker 2: and spent more time on it to determine the actual age, 456 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:33,560 Speaker 2: they came up with an age of thirty nine years 457 00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:38,120 Speaker 2: old and a very specific thirty nine years old. And again, 458 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:40,920 Speaker 2: and actually my notes here, thirty five to fifty five 459 00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:43,720 Speaker 2: was the original age range they gave. That this is 460 00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:47,600 Speaker 2: from the pathologist at the time. This is the pathologist 461 00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:54,120 Speaker 2: who ruled that this victim was alive before the fire began. Now, Joe, 462 00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:59,760 Speaker 2: we ran down the list of these injuries, and how 463 00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:03,880 Speaker 2: can you possibly survive all those injuries only to die 464 00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:04,959 Speaker 2: in a fire. 465 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:10,800 Speaker 1: Well, I think that yeah, you can, you would be 466 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:15,600 Speaker 1: and oh my god, this just goes from horrific to 467 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:21,280 Speaker 1: horrific because let's just say again, continuing on with my 468 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:28,880 Speaker 1: with my thought here, let's just say that that he 469 00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:31,680 Speaker 1: was struck by car. Now you've got to gather this 470 00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:36,120 Speaker 1: poor soul up whoever they are, throw them in there 471 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:40,280 Speaker 1: in the car. They don't say anything in their examination 472 00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:44,640 Speaker 1: about status of the brain or the skull, like skull fractures, 473 00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:47,160 Speaker 1: that sort of thing. And that's that's kind of hard 474 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:49,480 Speaker 1: because this is one thing and I don't know that 475 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:52,600 Speaker 1: I've ever mentioned this before, but let me go with it. 476 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:56,360 Speaker 1: There are fire related fractures that occur. You know, the 477 00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:58,600 Speaker 1: heat has to rise to a certain temperature and it 478 00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:02,160 Speaker 1: has to be sustained, and heat will fracture bone. One 479 00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:04,200 Speaker 1: of the first places to fracture will be the skull 480 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:07,640 Speaker 1: and what happens contained within skull and this kind of 481 00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:10,880 Speaker 1: graphic just so people understand forerehand, did you know that 482 00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:15,360 Speaker 1: the brain begins to boil inside of the skull in 483 00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:19,640 Speaker 1: that closed in space and it creates almost well, it 484 00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:24,120 Speaker 1: almost creates steam within that area, and the actual the 485 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,680 Speaker 1: internal and external table I've seen it happen of the 486 00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:31,400 Speaker 1: skull will actually fracture, all right. Now. There's some debate 487 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:33,560 Speaker 1: as to whether or not the boiling of the brain 488 00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:37,760 Speaker 1: actually creates that fracture or if it's the thinness of 489 00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:40,600 Speaker 1: the skull because they are thin, particularly if you get 490 00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:43,520 Speaker 1: around the temporal bones and that sort of thing, they 491 00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:47,240 Speaker 1: will fracture pretty easily. But heat he can certainly do that. 492 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:52,400 Speaker 1: You know, I would the brain. I don't know if 493 00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:55,080 Speaker 1: it would be appreciable in this case as far as 494 00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:58,960 Speaker 1: like if you could determine, if you could determine any 495 00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:03,480 Speaker 1: kind of cerebral trauma with this guy, because not only 496 00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:05,240 Speaker 1: does it boil, you know what else it does. The 497 00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:09,960 Speaker 1: brain shrinks, It shrinks also, even if it doesn't reach 498 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:12,760 Speaker 1: a boiling point, the brain will shrink and kind of contract, 499 00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:15,880 Speaker 1: and it really it really kind of screws up your 500 00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:21,040 Speaker 1: ability to do an effective assessment. That's why in certain circumstances. 501 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:25,120 Speaker 1: Fire can be really useful if you're trying to hide 502 00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:28,120 Speaker 1: things like this. And again, it all goes to the 503 00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:32,040 Speaker 1: sustainability and the layer and the level of heat that 504 00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:36,440 Speaker 1: is attained inside of a vehicle, how long it burns, 505 00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:39,240 Speaker 1: how intense that temperature was, all this sort of thing. 506 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:45,360 Speaker 1: So I don't know, Dave. My thought is, and I 507 00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:48,360 Speaker 1: was talking about going from horror to even more horrific, 508 00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:53,320 Speaker 1: is that if this guy was alive after he was struck, 509 00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:56,600 Speaker 1: he would have had to have been transported somewhere. Was 510 00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:58,600 Speaker 1: it in the back of this little civic you know, 511 00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:01,560 Speaker 1: thrown or was he picked up, you know, and put 512 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,000 Speaker 1: into the and then told along the way, yeah, I'm 513 00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:05,520 Speaker 1: going to go get your help. I'm going to go 514 00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,520 Speaker 1: get your help. And the guy is either unconscious or 515 00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:12,240 Speaker 1: he's like in that kind of you know Perry mortem state, Uh, 516 00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:14,480 Speaker 1: you know, kind of like this and you're driving down 517 00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:17,600 Speaker 1: the road. What kind of ghoul does this? And then 518 00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:20,520 Speaker 1: because what they're saying, Dave, is that this there is 519 00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:23,600 Speaker 1: a high probability this guy was burned alive. Right, this 520 00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:27,120 Speaker 1: guy was burned alive. Can you imagine having gasoline thrown 521 00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:29,239 Speaker 1: all over you inside of a car after you've been 522 00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:33,240 Speaker 1: struck by the car, just minding your own man, not 523 00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:36,000 Speaker 1: having a care in the world, and you're hit by 524 00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:39,000 Speaker 1: this person that does this and then thrown in and 525 00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:44,240 Speaker 1: essentially barbecued at that point in time, alive, alive. I 526 00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:46,880 Speaker 1: got to tell you this, this thing, the more we 527 00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:50,840 Speaker 1: talk about it, the more absolutely grotesque this becomes. And 528 00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:54,640 Speaker 1: it's not just the injuries, Dave, It's not just the 529 00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:59,920 Speaker 1: injuries in this case. The grotesqueness that I'm really speaking 530 00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:06,680 Speaker 1: right now is how rotten someone's soul must have been 531 00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:24,880 Speaker 1: that did this. So, Dave, you know you'd mentioned the 532 00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:30,520 Speaker 1: wife receiving these checks out of the blue. Now she's 533 00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:36,239 Speaker 1: fully aware that her husband is now deceased, all right, 534 00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:40,480 Speaker 1: she's got checks rolling in. I don't think the checks. 535 00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:44,120 Speaker 1: I can't. I would imagine probably at first blush, she 536 00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:48,920 Speaker 1: might rip open the envelope and say, oh wow, maybe 537 00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:52,879 Speaker 1: this is an insurance payment, right maybe, And they don't 538 00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:54,920 Speaker 1: really go into a lot of detail to talk about 539 00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:58,960 Speaker 1: specifically how much each individual check was. But I think 540 00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:02,080 Speaker 1: that there was an insurre and payout, you know, for 541 00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:06,560 Speaker 1: this man, this Kate's fellow, that had died and by 542 00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:10,080 Speaker 1: the way, it's interesting to note that not only was 543 00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:13,160 Speaker 1: he a state prosecutor in his real life, he had 544 00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:17,719 Speaker 1: actually been a full colonel in the Army Reserve. So 545 00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:20,759 Speaker 1: he's an attorney. So he was probably serving as a 546 00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:25,960 Speaker 1: jag officer at the at the reserve level. And I'm thinking, oh, 547 00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:28,759 Speaker 1: my lord, you know, this guy is betraying trust all 548 00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:32,840 Speaker 1: over place, well, most importantly as marriage, and then secondly, 549 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:35,400 Speaker 1: you know, the public trust. He's an elected official. And 550 00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:38,000 Speaker 1: then you know he swore he took two o's, Dave. 551 00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:40,240 Speaker 1: You know, he was sworn in as an attorneys, sworn 552 00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:42,840 Speaker 1: in as an officer in the United States Army. Lord, 553 00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:43,280 Speaker 1: have mercy. 554 00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:46,120 Speaker 2: When his wife goes to you know, gets the checks 555 00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:50,840 Speaker 2: from Kurts, I was thinking, you know, maybe something to 556 00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:53,120 Speaker 2: do with apocalypse now, something along those lines. 557 00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:55,040 Speaker 3: Yeah. 558 00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:56,360 Speaker 1: I thought the same thing. 559 00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:00,840 Speaker 2: A month a month after the funeral, a month after 560 00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:05,360 Speaker 2: the full on military funeral, because he was no longer 561 00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:07,840 Speaker 2: there to sweep up the messes that he had made. 562 00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:12,320 Speaker 3: And this is the part that people forget. He fakes 563 00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:12,880 Speaker 3: his death. 564 00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:15,480 Speaker 2: So all the things that he was hiding, the balls 565 00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:17,840 Speaker 2: he was juggling, well, there's nobody there to keep him juggling, 566 00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:21,719 Speaker 2: so they start falling and fairly quickly. We're talking in 567 00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:25,279 Speaker 2: the days following the funeral. Okay, by the way, you 568 00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:27,560 Speaker 2: had a god an idea where they actually believed they 569 00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:28,760 Speaker 2: were burying Kates. 570 00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:30,040 Speaker 3: It came from a shoe. 571 00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:33,960 Speaker 2: One of his shoes actually was used to say, yeah, 572 00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:38,120 Speaker 2: that's his shoe. It's just crazy that that was the 573 00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:39,920 Speaker 2: one thing that went, oh yeah, yeah, it has to 574 00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:43,759 Speaker 2: be him then. So anyway, he takes off and he 575 00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:47,360 Speaker 2: goes to Lawrenceville, Georgia, rents an apartment and he's living 576 00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:53,800 Speaker 2: there under the name of Christopher E. Curtis, retired Army general. Okay, 577 00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:56,360 Speaker 2: not a colonel, he's a retired profile. 578 00:36:56,400 --> 00:37:01,120 Speaker 1: He's going to buddy, he's going he's literally adopting a 579 00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:05,120 Speaker 1: false identity based upon a rank that people don't realize 580 00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:07,879 Speaker 1: if you're a general in the army, Guess who has 581 00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:11,759 Speaker 1: to facilitate that. The Congress of the United States, they 582 00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:15,600 Speaker 1: approve all general ranks. I think the President has to 583 00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:17,959 Speaker 1: sign off on it as well. Boy, you talk about 584 00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:19,280 Speaker 1: rolling the dice man. 585 00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:23,319 Speaker 2: Yeah, buddy, Well, Christopher E. Curtis, retired Army general living 586 00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:28,440 Speaker 2: in Lawrenceville, Georgia. Basically undone by his own stupidity. But 587 00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:33,440 Speaker 2: he gets arrested. They bring him back to Mississippi and 588 00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:36,279 Speaker 2: this is you know, the Madison County grand jury is 589 00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:40,719 Speaker 2: brought together and he's indicted there because not only is 590 00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:45,600 Speaker 2: he charged with capital murder and arson, because now that 591 00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:48,640 Speaker 2: we know we have him, who is that person that 592 00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:54,480 Speaker 2: you killed? Because again, remember Joe, that person that was 593 00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:58,879 Speaker 2: injured with all those broken bones, Yeah, was alive when 594 00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:02,799 Speaker 2: the fire was excited. Tolerance began. So he's charged with 595 00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:07,640 Speaker 2: capital murder and arson. But then Kates was also indicted 596 00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:11,399 Speaker 2: in Hinz County for embezzling two hundred and thirty three 597 00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:13,720 Speaker 2: thousand dollars from a farm co op he did legal 598 00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:18,640 Speaker 2: work for. And let's see, there was another motivation here 599 00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:21,600 Speaker 2: for him faking his death to escape the indictment on 600 00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:25,080 Speaker 2: that charge. It was to collect the four hundred thousand 601 00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:29,240 Speaker 2: dollars in life insurance policies that he had recently purchased. Okay, 602 00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:34,000 Speaker 2: so we've got this money coming through. We got lots 603 00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:37,440 Speaker 2: of problems. And they sit down to flea bargain with him, Joe, 604 00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:40,960 Speaker 2: and the one thing that they did not do was 605 00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:48,359 Speaker 2: make him identify the person he killed. They allowed him 606 00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:52,000 Speaker 2: to get away with this, Okay, he ends up receiving 607 00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:56,200 Speaker 2: a twenty year sentence for the charges of capital murder 608 00:38:56,640 --> 00:39:00,400 Speaker 2: and arson, and Joe, I'm just here to tell you 609 00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:03,640 Speaker 2: that that's not acceptable, which leads me to believe he 610 00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:07,880 Speaker 2: didn't know the person he killed, that he randomly hit somebody, 611 00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:10,919 Speaker 2: that he went out looking for somebody he could run over, 612 00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:13,759 Speaker 2: somebody that he could, you know, take out and do, 613 00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:16,279 Speaker 2: which is exactly what he did. He probably scooped it 614 00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:18,919 Speaker 2: out for a while ahead of time, but he ends 615 00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:22,479 Speaker 2: up not being able to identify the individual. Maybe, And 616 00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:24,640 Speaker 2: so there you go, because that's what we're still trying 617 00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:24,960 Speaker 2: to do. 618 00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:25,640 Speaker 3: Here we are. 619 00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:27,560 Speaker 2: It's twenty twenty five, We're at the end of the year, 620 00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:31,120 Speaker 2: and we have a family. Okay, no matter what that 621 00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:34,480 Speaker 2: person did before, during, or after, they had a mom 622 00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:34,960 Speaker 2: and dad. 623 00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:36,360 Speaker 3: They had family. 624 00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:41,280 Speaker 2: And they've been gone now since nineteen eighty three because 625 00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:44,840 Speaker 2: of this scumbag who was trying to take the easy 626 00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:46,680 Speaker 2: way out of all the problems he had created for 627 00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:50,319 Speaker 2: himself by stealing money that didn't belong to him, and 628 00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:53,839 Speaker 2: he killed this guy in the worst way you can 629 00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:54,880 Speaker 2: possibly imagine. 630 00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:57,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, he did. That's an aggravating circumstance. I understand why 631 00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:02,000 Speaker 1: they went out after capital capital murder with that, because 632 00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:05,640 Speaker 1: you're literally burning somebody alive. Here's one more thing. I 633 00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:08,640 Speaker 1: forgot to mention that it's kind of they make up 634 00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:10,680 Speaker 1: mention of the dead guy's teeth here. 635 00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:13,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, they didn't have any. 636 00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:15,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that that absence of teeth did not happen 637 00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:20,480 Speaker 1: as a result of fire. I'm wondering, first off, if 638 00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:24,680 Speaker 1: this guy is naturally absent of dentition, or did this 639 00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:29,880 Speaker 1: ghoule get a pair of pliers I'm thinking needle knows 640 00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:36,440 Speaker 1: and go into this guy's mouth and extract teeth. And 641 00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:40,160 Speaker 1: that's going to be dependent upon how badly the skull 642 00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:44,520 Speaker 1: is charred. You know, teeth are going to last even 643 00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:48,040 Speaker 1: when other bone you know, comes apart, and I say bone. 644 00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:51,960 Speaker 1: Teeth are not bone. I've said that before. So the 645 00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:55,360 Speaker 1: teeth are going to be present even in the absence 646 00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:58,839 Speaker 1: of bone or when bone is compromised. Again, that goes 647 00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:01,800 Speaker 1: to motivation, But that leaves us with the big question 648 00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:05,120 Speaker 1: that's still here at literally at the end of twenty 649 00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:08,799 Speaker 1: twenty five, we don't know who this guy is, but 650 00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:12,520 Speaker 1: there's somebody out there that does want to know who 651 00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:15,280 Speaker 1: he is other than us, and that's our friends at AUTHRAM. 652 00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:18,919 Speaker 1: They've taken the reins on this case, and I think 653 00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:22,960 Speaker 1: that this is kind of a worthy way to end 654 00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:27,520 Speaker 1: our year coming up, you know, because we Dave and 655 00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:29,880 Speaker 1: I have spent a lot of time talking about AUTHRAM. 656 00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:32,800 Speaker 1: I don't want to put words in my friend's mouth, 657 00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:36,520 Speaker 1: but this is something that we actually believe in because 658 00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:39,000 Speaker 1: it's a worthy pursuit, and how much more so in 659 00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:47,440 Speaker 1: this case. Right now AUTHRAM has two thousand, two hundred 660 00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:54,440 Speaker 1: four dollars and thirty five cents put toward this case. 661 00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:57,680 Speaker 1: They got to get seventy five hundred bucks in order 662 00:41:57,719 --> 00:42:01,520 Speaker 1: to flip switch on this. I urge you to go 663 00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:05,880 Speaker 1: to their website, and if you will, just when you 664 00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:09,759 Speaker 1: get to their website, look for the case that is 665 00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:14,520 Speaker 1: entitled Madison County Corner's Office and Rankin County Corner's Office. 666 00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:19,320 Speaker 1: That's Madison County Corner's Office and Rankin County Corner's Office. 667 00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:24,200 Speaker 1: Look for that title in their articles. It's going to 668 00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:27,880 Speaker 1: be at You can find it at d NA solves 669 00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:34,640 Speaker 1: dot com. That's d NA solves dot com and check 670 00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:38,279 Speaker 1: under their head are called cases and it'll pop up. 671 00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:41,040 Speaker 1: If you can just send a couple of bucks. I'm 672 00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:42,920 Speaker 1: going to send a couple of bucks toward this case 673 00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:45,400 Speaker 1: to see if we can't get this thing resolved, if 674 00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:48,960 Speaker 1: we can't get this thing rolling. Because I don't know 675 00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:52,279 Speaker 1: about you guys, whoever this person was, I don't care 676 00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:55,040 Speaker 1: who they were. They did not deserve this. They did 677 00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:59,759 Speaker 1: not deserve And guess what our man that said, he 678 00:42:59,880 --> 00:43:03,560 Speaker 1: was a retired army general. He died in Parchment, and 679 00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:06,560 Speaker 1: Parchment is the big house in Mississippi. It's like the 680 00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:10,080 Speaker 1: main penitentiary there, all right, he died. I think what 681 00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:12,640 Speaker 1: was it like back in nineteen ninety day? 682 00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:14,880 Speaker 3: Yea and thy two when he died. 683 00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:17,560 Speaker 1: And this thing is kind of falling, you know, kind 684 00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:20,400 Speaker 1: of falling off the radar. We need to keep this 685 00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:25,560 Speaker 1: case alive. No pun intended, or maybe it is intended, 686 00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:29,120 Speaker 1: because what we want to do, what we want to 687 00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:33,520 Speaker 1: do is we want to see life breathe into these cases, 688 00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:38,160 Speaker 1: these long since dead people that have no identification, Their 689 00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:40,960 Speaker 1: families don't know about it, they don't know what happened 690 00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:45,120 Speaker 1: to them. Let's all join together and breathe life into 691 00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:48,600 Speaker 1: them and get resolutions for these cases. There's no way. 692 00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:51,520 Speaker 1: And I don't necessarily believe in justice in this old world. 693 00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:55,080 Speaker 1: All right. We're a falling place, it's an evil place. 694 00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:59,280 Speaker 1: I don't believe that justice really truly comes to anyone 695 00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:01,640 Speaker 1: in the whole grand scheme of things. But I do 696 00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:05,440 Speaker 1: know that science can offer some answers, and you know 697 00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:08,839 Speaker 1: that maybe there's a little comfort in that, but I 698 00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:12,040 Speaker 1: think that in the long run it's something that could 699 00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:15,160 Speaker 1: benefit And it's also a warning again. I'll say this again. 700 00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:19,160 Speaker 1: This is a warning out there to anyone who thinks 701 00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:22,839 Speaker 1: that they have done things in secret and they thought 702 00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:25,360 Speaker 1: that they were going to get away with it, even 703 00:44:25,719 --> 00:44:27,400 Speaker 1: in depth. They thought that they were going to get 704 00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:30,839 Speaker 1: away with it, and folks, that just ain't the case. 705 00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:37,760 Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and this is Bodybags.