1 00:00:01,520 --> 00:00:05,480 Speaker 1: Hi, Katie. Hi, Brian. I'm very excited about today's podcast 2 00:00:05,680 --> 00:00:08,559 Speaker 1: because we're talking to a real brainiac. And I'm not 3 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:12,400 Speaker 1: talking about you, Brian. I'm talking about Neil Degrass Tyson, 4 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:16,040 Speaker 1: and I'm excited to talk to him because I feel 5 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:19,160 Speaker 1: like there's a war on science, a war on fact 6 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:22,160 Speaker 1: based evidence going on in this country, and I want 7 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:25,280 Speaker 1: to understand why this topic is probably more relevant than 8 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 1: ever before because you have right now the President's budget 9 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 1: going after the Environmental Protection Agency. You have the top 10 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:36,360 Speaker 1: regulators in the country denying that humans are contributing to 11 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:39,839 Speaker 1: climate change, or at least questioning it. You have a 12 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 1: big movement in this country of people who are denying 13 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 1: the things that scientists are telling us based on the 14 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:51,120 Speaker 1: research that they're doing. And Neil Degrass Tyson wants to 15 00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:53,559 Speaker 1: fight back against all of that and to do it 16 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 1: through education and information. And he's a great person to 17 00:00:57,560 --> 00:01:00,959 Speaker 1: do that, Brian. He breaks things out and makes them 18 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:03,960 Speaker 1: very accessible. In fact, he's been called a cross between 19 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:08,560 Speaker 1: Mr Rogers and Carl Sagan. He makes science fun and 20 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 1: if you don't believe us, just listen to the way 21 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 1: Neil begins his podcast from the American Museum of Natural 22 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:25,280 Speaker 1: History in New York City, and time is starting where 23 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:34,400 Speaker 1: science and pop culture such a Hey, Brian, how can 24 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:37,360 Speaker 1: you not enjoy learning about the universe to the strains 25 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 1: of sexy back? Come on now, well, I think sexy 26 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 1: Back was actually written for me. It's a it's a 27 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:46,480 Speaker 1: little known fact, but that's true. I don't want to 28 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 1: think about that. Meanwhile, did you notice how malef lewis 29 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 1: Neil's voices? I mean, he's got such a great speaking voice. 30 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:56,400 Speaker 1: We're not saying he doesn't have a face for television, 31 00:01:56,440 --> 00:02:00,360 Speaker 1: but he also has a voice for audio. Absolutely, So 32 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 1: we learned so much when we talked to Neil de 33 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:13,360 Speaker 1: grass Tyson. And here he is, Hi, Katie, how are 34 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:16,639 Speaker 1: you in a few years? I know we were together 35 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 1: on TV? I know and uh, and we have so 36 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 1: much to talk about us. It is vast and Brian 37 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 1: is joining us from Los Angeles, and I first want 38 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 1: to talk to you about your childhood and how you 39 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 1: became so excited by science. You know what it is. 40 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:37,239 Speaker 1: I think as a kid, we're all excited about everything. 41 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:39,280 Speaker 1: I mean, just remember that. So how did I keep 42 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:42,799 Speaker 1: my curiosity? Is really? What what ignited it to to 43 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:45,800 Speaker 1: to delve into science in particular, right, because you can 44 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:49,079 Speaker 1: be curious about anything obviously, So so it was you know, 45 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:51,040 Speaker 1: I grew up in New York City, and my parents 46 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:55,320 Speaker 1: fully understood the role in the value of the cultural 47 00:02:55,360 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 1: institutions of the city, the museums, the zoo, and my 48 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:02,799 Speaker 1: When I was nine, we happened to go to the 49 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:06,839 Speaker 1: Hayden Planetarium and I said this before I sat down, 50 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:09,400 Speaker 1: and like they dimmed the lights and the stars came out, 51 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:11,840 Speaker 1: and I was certain it was a hoax. I was 52 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:14,079 Speaker 1: so because I grew up in the Bronx and I 53 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:16,080 Speaker 1: knew how many stars there were in the night sky. 54 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:19,280 Speaker 1: There's like a dozen stars, so this can't be right 55 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:22,320 Speaker 1: that there are these countless thousands of stars on the dome. 56 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:25,080 Speaker 1: Of course, later I would learn that that was closer 57 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:27,959 Speaker 1: to reality than anything I've ever seen or experienced in 58 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:30,440 Speaker 1: the Bronx. But I can say without hesitation that that 59 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:34,200 Speaker 1: day I was star struck and I never left the 60 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 1: Hayden Planetarium since then, Right, Yeah, I'm kind of still there. Yeah, 61 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:42,960 Speaker 1: And then an adulthood I would become director of the planetarium. 62 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:46,040 Speaker 1: That's right. That is such a cool story. Honestly, I 63 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 1: think it makes a better story in a small town, 64 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:51,240 Speaker 1: you know, hometown kid goes away and comes back and 65 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 1: does good in New York, nobody cares. I don't think 66 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 1: that's okay. Yeah, I think that is. I think it 67 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:02,120 Speaker 1: is really cool. And you know, I think the idea 68 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 1: that you were filled almost immediately with this sense of wonder. 69 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 1: I mean, I think you're so lucky neal, because I 70 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 1: think many people don't have a calling that way, that 71 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:15,120 Speaker 1: nothing really strikes them as something they are really passionate about. 72 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 1: I here's something, here's a bit of delusion for me. Ready. 73 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:22,280 Speaker 1: So when I was eleven, I said to myself, maybe 74 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 1: I shouldn't study the universe because it's so amazing. Everyone 75 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:29,160 Speaker 1: clearly will want to study it. Everyone's going to want 76 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:31,640 Speaker 1: to be an astro physinesist. That was a thought I 77 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:34,760 Speaker 1: actually actually went through my head because it would take 78 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:37,160 Speaker 1: a two years until age eleven where I would have 79 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:41,239 Speaker 1: the answer to that annoying question that adults always ask kids, 80 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 1: you know, what do you want to be when you 81 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:46,599 Speaker 1: grow up? Age eleven onward? My answer was astrophysicist and usually, 82 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:52,680 Speaker 1: oh god, that sounds so obnoxious. It was completely obnoxious, 83 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 1: and in the following world I think I'd smack you 84 00:04:56,600 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 1: just kidding everyone, I don't I love it. I'd be 85 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 1: lovingly smacked by Katie. But Katie, you are absolutely right. 86 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 1: I did not know until I got to college how 87 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 1: many people did not have a calling that was still 88 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 1: trying to figure it out, and they were thumbing through 89 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 1: what to major in in the book, And so I 90 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:21,640 Speaker 1: would never thenceforth take it for granted. Well, it's interesting 91 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 1: is we were preparing for this show, we learned that, 92 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:29,480 Speaker 1: you know, both your parents were intellectuals. Your mom was 93 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 1: a gerontologist, which apparently has something to do with the 94 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:36,600 Speaker 1: study of aging, and your dad was a sociologist and 95 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:39,680 Speaker 1: worked for the City of New York. And so did 96 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:42,720 Speaker 1: your parents encourage you to to get a PhD? To 97 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 1: travel this hard road to actually becoming uh Dr Tyson. 98 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:51,960 Speaker 1: So let me add some some nuances to to what 99 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:56,600 Speaker 1: you've said. So, my mother was a housewife while raising 100 00:05:56,760 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 1: the three of us, and she only went to college 101 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:04,000 Speaker 1: age after we were empty nest. So she married and 102 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:07,160 Speaker 1: started a family out of high school, while my father 103 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:11,200 Speaker 1: went on for further education. Uh And he became a 104 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:14,960 Speaker 1: practicing sociologist in the sense that he was hired into 105 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:17,400 Speaker 1: the city under Mayor Lindsay at the time, and this 106 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 1: is in the nineteen sixties, so the civil rights era 107 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:24,800 Speaker 1: was fully underway, and so there he was being deeply 108 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:28,120 Speaker 1: concerned about the plight of the human condition. And later 109 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:31,520 Speaker 1: on my mother would turn her energies to the plight 110 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:35,920 Speaker 1: of the aging. And here's their son, the astrost. So 111 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 1: that was a little weird. It was a little weird. 112 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:42,800 Speaker 1: But they never told me what to study. All they 113 00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 1: did was encouraged the interest that they saw manifest on 114 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 1: its own. But clearly you know from your story about 115 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:54,280 Speaker 1: how they would take you all different places and exploring 116 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:58,200 Speaker 1: really the world in the microcosm of New York, that 117 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:02,279 Speaker 1: must have kind of stimulated you. And and I'm wondering 118 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:05,600 Speaker 1: that's the right word, the world explore? Right? Who who 119 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:07,920 Speaker 1: thinks about it that way? But that's exactly what it was. 120 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 1: You go to a different institution each weekend. That's exploration, 121 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:15,480 Speaker 1: urban exploration is what that was. But at no time 122 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:17,720 Speaker 1: where my parents saying I want you to do what 123 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:20,760 Speaker 1: I what I did. That would be and I we 124 00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 1: all know people where that was the case, right, What 125 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:28,040 Speaker 1: would you tell parents about instilling this intellectual curiosity and 126 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 1: their children. I would say, expose them to as many 127 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 1: kinds of things they can be when they grow up 128 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:38,000 Speaker 1: as is possible given your resources and given your geography, 129 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 1: and I think they'll find they'll find their way, So 130 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 1: expose them and let them decide. There you go. And 131 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:47,360 Speaker 1: as you were trying to figure out what to be, 132 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 1: I read that you had some reservations about becoming an 133 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:54,720 Speaker 1: astrophysicist because as an African American you worried that it 134 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 1: wouldn't do enough to help your fellow African Americans. But 135 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:01,720 Speaker 1: you change your mind to about that. Can you describe 136 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:04,960 Speaker 1: what happened? Oh? Yeah, I briefly. Um, there's a little 137 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 1: bit about this in my memoir which I wrote some 138 00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:11,120 Speaker 1: years ago, midlife Memoir. I guess I was going to say, 139 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 1: you're prettily on to write a memoir. Several years ago. 140 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:16,680 Speaker 1: We publisher approached me this is this is basically twenty 141 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 1: years ago and said we want to hear your story. 142 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 1: And I said, do you know something about my life 143 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 1: expectancy that I don't? So they said, oh, this one 144 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 1: could be just the first installment. I said fine, So 145 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 1: so in there I just tell the story. When I 146 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:33,439 Speaker 1: was in college, I was on the wrestling. I wrestled, 147 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:37,320 Speaker 1: and I had a fellow wrestler who's my weight class, 148 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 1: and he's black, majored in economics. And we're walking home 149 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:46,080 Speaker 1: one day. This was at Harvard. At Harvard, yeah, that school, 150 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:50,040 Speaker 1: and came too ready with the Harvard bashing. Never had 151 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:55,360 Speaker 1: Brian went to Harvard to I basically have an inferiority complex. 152 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:58,559 Speaker 1: Oh no, I think she actually has a superiority complex 153 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:00,839 Speaker 1: about U v A. All right, moving on, go ahead 154 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 1: and me up, and let the record show that both 155 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 1: of you mentioned this on your own. I did not 156 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:09,599 Speaker 1: mention it myself. And so he would later go on 157 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:12,640 Speaker 1: to be a Rhodes scholar and study in Oxford. And 158 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:15,360 Speaker 1: so he's an accomplished guy. But we're walking home and 159 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 1: he says, oh, so, how how how studies? And I said, 160 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:20,240 Speaker 1: I barely have time for anything. You know, my problem 161 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:22,800 Speaker 1: sets are killing me. So remind me what you're studying. 162 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:26,240 Speaker 1: I said, physics. Ultimately want to get a PhD in astrophysics. 163 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 1: And he said, quote, the black community does not have 164 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:43,920 Speaker 1: the luxury of you studying astrophysics. Ouch. Oh oh, are 165 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:50,080 Speaker 1: you channeling very white all? So what did you say 166 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 1: to that? Well? So I was very conflicted because of 167 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:57,520 Speaker 1: course my father was in the service of helping the 168 00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:01,640 Speaker 1: black community or anyone disenfranchised more generally, and so I 169 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:06,280 Speaker 1: knew where where that argument comes from. And I also 170 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 1: knew that here I am in one of the finest 171 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 1: institutions of the land, and I'm studying the Big Bang 172 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 1: and black holes and planets. Oh my gosh, And I said, so, 173 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 1: So what he did was he he dug me into 174 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 1: a hole and left me there. And I didn't know 175 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 1: how to get out of the hole. But so, so 176 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:27,480 Speaker 1: I was conflicted for many years. I would say, I 177 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 1: can quantify it was I was conflicted for like twelve years. 178 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:34,679 Speaker 1: I still went on to get a PhD and studied astrophysics, 179 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 1: but I was conflicted the whole time because of that 180 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:39,720 Speaker 1: one thing he said to me. And you know how 181 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:42,559 Speaker 1: I finally got out of it, Yeah, because it's it 182 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 1: involved like your your people, right, your your species. So 183 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:49,880 Speaker 1: so I'm in graduate school and a phone call comes 184 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:52,840 Speaker 1: to the department and it was Channel five news, local 185 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 1: news in New York. Apparently there were explosions on the 186 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:59,040 Speaker 1: Sun and they called the astrophysics department at Columbia to 187 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:01,640 Speaker 1: get somebody to calm meant on these explosions. So I 188 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 1: got on the phone with the guy. It was the 189 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:05,000 Speaker 1: weather guy, because the weather Guy is the science the 190 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:08,200 Speaker 1: token science person on all the shows. And they said, uh, 191 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:10,160 Speaker 1: can you tell us about this? I said, yes, it's 192 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:14,040 Speaker 1: just solar flares. This happens every now and then part 193 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:17,760 Speaker 1: charged particles head towards Earth. Earth magnetic field deflects them. 194 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:20,240 Speaker 1: We're safe from it. This use this as an excuse 195 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 1: this weekend to go north and enjoy the northern lights. 196 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:25,439 Speaker 1: That's what he said, Oh, could you say that on camera? 197 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:29,600 Speaker 1: So I said sure, Okay. So I went into the studio, 198 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:32,760 Speaker 1: sat down in front of these fake books because my 199 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 1: first time like in your space, you're kind of space Katie. 200 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 1: So we're sitting for it was when we were sitting 201 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:44,880 Speaker 1: for these sawed off books, glued fake you know, edge 202 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:48,120 Speaker 1: side into the thing, and so we recreate this conversation 203 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:50,679 Speaker 1: and then I So that was and for airing later 204 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:53,240 Speaker 1: that night. So I went home and I called everybody. Mom, 205 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:55,679 Speaker 1: Dad says, I'll be on TV tonight, right right. So, 206 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:58,960 Speaker 1: and I'm I'm watching TV and I'm watching me interviewed, 207 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:01,040 Speaker 1: and I had a kind of out of body experience. 208 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:04,760 Speaker 1: At the end of that conversation, I realized, Oh my gosh, 209 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:08,920 Speaker 1: the reporter did not ask me, how do black people 210 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:11,920 Speaker 1: feel about the sun exploding? What do you you know? 211 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:16,160 Speaker 1: What what is does? Does that? Does this radiation affect 212 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:19,719 Speaker 1: black skin differently from white skin? There was not a 213 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:22,520 Speaker 1: single mention of the color of my skin in that interview. 214 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:25,600 Speaker 1: And then I realized I had never seen an interview 215 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:30,840 Speaker 1: ever of a black person on TV that had nothing 216 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:35,199 Speaker 1: to do with being black, not including athletes and entertainers 217 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:44,120 Speaker 1: with nine Okay, then I realized what I just did 218 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:49,760 Speaker 1: there maybe the most potent force, of the most potent 219 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:54,360 Speaker 1: equalizing force there is. You see an expert as a 220 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:57,280 Speaker 1: black person telling you whether Earth is going to survive, 221 00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:02,040 Speaker 1: Earth is gonna survive. So now you see an educated 222 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:04,960 Speaker 1: black person on TV, no mention of their skin color. 223 00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:07,720 Speaker 1: Now you see a homeless black person in the street. 224 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:10,720 Speaker 1: Now you're gonna think twice. You're gonna say, oh my gosh, 225 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:13,319 Speaker 1: is this for law? Lack of opportunity to have we 226 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:17,599 Speaker 1: done something wrong? Is there can to society? And no 227 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:21,319 Speaker 1: longer can you just stereotype and entire group of people 228 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 1: who would just be your entertainers or your athletes. And 229 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 1: I've realized at that point this is the ticket out 230 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 1: of this hole that I've been standing in for thirteen years. 231 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 1: It's not that the black community can't afford to have 232 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 1: me study astrophysics, is that the world cannot afford to 233 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:39,320 Speaker 1: have me not study astrophysics. That's what I can call 234 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 1: and the world can cannot afford not seeing you explain astrophysics. 235 00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 1: And that's why with this interview as an exception, if 236 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:52,600 Speaker 1: someone wants to interview me, and I know in advance 237 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:54,160 Speaker 1: it's because I'm black and they want to ask me 238 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:56,240 Speaker 1: black stuff, I say, no, that's not I'm not the 239 00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:58,160 Speaker 1: right person for that. But you did have to have 240 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:01,880 Speaker 1: this epiphany, and you thought, why aren't there more African 241 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 1: American experts having nothing to do with their race on television? Correct? Correct? 242 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:10,560 Speaker 1: So beginning in the early nineties, you started having black 243 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:14,800 Speaker 1: attorneys commenting on, you know, civil cases. So attorneys were 244 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 1: the first out of the box. Then you'd have others. 245 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:21,280 Speaker 1: You would have authors and poets and and and newscasters, 246 00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:23,880 Speaker 1: and so now it's not even a thing. And I'm 247 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 1: delighted to announce that. You know, it's interesting. I was 248 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 1: thinking when I read this as well. Preparing for this interview, 249 00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:33,320 Speaker 1: I was thinking about when I had my colonoscopy. When 250 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:37,000 Speaker 1: I got my colonoscopy on television, I used a doctor 251 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:39,920 Speaker 1: who was highly recommended, named ken Ford, because he was 252 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:42,240 Speaker 1: recommended by a friend of mine, and I didn't want 253 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 1: my friend, who was also a gastro orologist, to get 254 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 1: that close to me, if you know what I'm saying. 255 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:49,120 Speaker 1: So I a friend of mine came up to me 256 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:53,040 Speaker 1: Neil after that colonoscopy and said, thank you so much 257 00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:58,000 Speaker 1: for using an African American doctor to give you your colonoscopy. 258 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 1: And I said, I didn't even think of that. There 259 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:04,600 Speaker 1: you go, that's it. But but it was so important. 260 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:08,640 Speaker 1: It's so important to your point to continue to show 261 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:11,600 Speaker 1: really diversity of all kinds exactly in a number of 262 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:16,440 Speaker 1: television general case. It's a general statement. It's the diversity 263 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:21,040 Speaker 1: of gender, race, of the nationality. If once you see that, 264 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 1: it makes it harder for you to stereotype. We have 265 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:28,240 Speaker 1: a caller question which I think is actually perfect for 266 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:32,840 Speaker 1: this moment, so let's listen. I'm Brian, Hi Katie. I 267 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 1: first only thank Neil because a few years ago he 268 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:37,480 Speaker 1: gave me the best advice for being a physicist applying 269 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:39,840 Speaker 1: to grad school, which is the double the amount of 270 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:42,360 Speaker 1: schools you're applying to, because if you're dumb enough to 271 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:44,280 Speaker 1: go to grad school on any stone field, I don't 272 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:46,240 Speaker 1: remember using the word dumb. One's going to be dumb 273 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 1: enough to take you. You just gotta find them. But 274 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:50,360 Speaker 1: a question for Neil is how did you go from 275 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 1: being an academic researcher to becoming one of the leading 276 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:59,840 Speaker 1: scientific communicators today? Okay, great question. So uh so this 277 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:03,400 Speaker 1: trajectory is not what you think. So because I'm not 278 00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:07,360 Speaker 1: entirely what I seem. If you tell me rank what 279 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:11,360 Speaker 1: it is you would want to do today, probably engaging 280 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:13,840 Speaker 1: the public would not make the top fifty. I would 281 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:16,000 Speaker 1: just stay home, or I'd write, or I'd go to 282 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:18,920 Speaker 1: the lab. That's what I really want to do in 283 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:21,880 Speaker 1: a day. But what has happened is I live in 284 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 1: New York City. This is the news gathering headquarters of 285 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:27,480 Speaker 1: the country and possibly the world, And so when the 286 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:32,360 Speaker 1: universe flinches, the press calls me because I give them 287 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 1: a sound bite that they can embrace, that they like, 288 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 1: and then they want more. And by the way, I 289 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:40,680 Speaker 1: worked at that. All right, if you give me a minute. 290 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 1: I'll tell you my very first time on national news. 291 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:46,640 Speaker 1: Because that the case with the with the fake books. 292 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:48,720 Speaker 1: That was local news, but my first time on nationals. 293 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 1: I'll tell you national news budget has anyone cracked, any 294 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:59,440 Speaker 1: of them know, But they make a more authentic They 295 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:02,240 Speaker 1: make a beauty of wallpaper, like three D wallpaper. So 296 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:07,360 Speaker 1: here's what happened. I'm freshly hired at the Hayden Planetarium. 297 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:12,359 Speaker 1: I'm interim director actually okay, and the first Excel planet 298 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:16,359 Speaker 1: is discovered, a planet orbiting another star, banner headlines. The 299 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:19,199 Speaker 1: call comes into the planetarium. They said, can we interview 300 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:21,239 Speaker 1: the director? They don't know me from anything, but I'm 301 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:23,720 Speaker 1: the director, all right, So they said, fine, we'll set 302 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:25,920 Speaker 1: you up with Tyson, who's tight. It's fine, he's the 303 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:30,760 Speaker 1: interim director. So this is Tom Brokaw's NBC Nightly News. Okay. 304 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:33,080 Speaker 1: Now they just send up an action camp to get 305 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:36,880 Speaker 1: to get this interview. An action was called back then, 306 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:43,439 Speaker 1: his Action News. But I don't think that NBC at 307 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:46,960 Speaker 1: nightly news with action whatever the local news had the 308 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:50,239 Speaker 1: action can absolutely right. Um so, but this was going 309 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:53,400 Speaker 1: to air on the NBC Nightly News, and so I'm 310 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:56,200 Speaker 1: there and they send up a correspondent and they asked me, 311 00:17:56,280 --> 00:17:58,520 Speaker 1: how is this planet discovered? And I I go on 312 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:02,119 Speaker 1: for ten minutes with my best profisoil reply. Hopefully this 313 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:05,240 Speaker 1: wasn't live. It was not live, it was prerecorded. And 314 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 1: so then I commented that that the way you can 315 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:12,120 Speaker 1: know that there's an orbiting planet is that the star 316 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:15,920 Speaker 1: responds to the gravity of the planet. We think planets 317 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:19,440 Speaker 1: orbit stars know they both orbit their common center of gravity. 318 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:21,800 Speaker 1: So the star is actually doing a kind of jiggle 319 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:24,639 Speaker 1: around with the center of mass, right, And so I 320 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:27,439 Speaker 1: said all of this. The only thing that ended up 321 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:30,760 Speaker 1: in the evening news that night was me jiggling my hips, 322 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:34,600 Speaker 1: the imitating, imitating the host star and all the rest 323 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:37,920 Speaker 1: of that got sound bitten. And I said, oh, now, 324 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:41,159 Speaker 1: I understand. They didn't come to hear me give a 325 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:46,080 Speaker 1: professorial reply. They want something they can use in their mode, 326 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:50,080 Speaker 1: even though they're in my house, right in my in 327 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:53,640 Speaker 1: my planetarium. So I went home and I practiced sound 328 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:56,320 Speaker 1: bites because I don't want them sound biting me. I'll 329 00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:58,280 Speaker 1: gonna hand you a sound bite that way, you don't 330 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:00,200 Speaker 1: have to cut it, give me any word in the 331 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:04,159 Speaker 1: entire universe object, idea thing just right now? Do it? 332 00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:10,400 Speaker 1: You want to do that single word Pluto, Pluto, Get 333 00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:17,080 Speaker 1: over it. Earth's moon is five times the mass of Pluto, 334 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:20,200 Speaker 1: and many Pluto lovers don't know that, and when you 335 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 1: tell it to them, only then do they begin to 336 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:27,040 Speaker 1: understand the controversy that surrounded it. So, yes, Pluto got demoted. 337 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:30,080 Speaker 1: Get over it. That's the sound bite I would give 338 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:33,040 Speaker 1: you if you came to melt So, so I worked 339 00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:36,200 Speaker 1: at that. So my only point of this is to say, 340 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 1: from that moment onward, I said, if I'm going to 341 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:44,120 Speaker 1: serve the press, serve television, I want to give them 342 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:47,680 Speaker 1: what they want and what they need. So so a 343 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:52,320 Speaker 1: sound bite is like two or three sentences that are informative, tasty, 344 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:55,320 Speaker 1: and maybe make you smile and make you smile so 345 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:57,120 Speaker 1: that you might want to tell someone else. So that's 346 00:19:57,119 --> 00:19:59,440 Speaker 1: what I started working on, and they kept coming back, 347 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:03,280 Speaker 1: but also accessible. If I were interviewing you now, I 348 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:06,840 Speaker 1: would say, this explanation has to be for the non 349 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:11,720 Speaker 1: scientists in the audience who need to understand in very 350 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:15,919 Speaker 1: simple and accessible terms complicated concepts. And you became an 351 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:20,480 Speaker 1: expert at that, you know, Tom Friedman explained complicated concepts, 352 00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:24,119 Speaker 1: and he said, to explain something simply, you have to 353 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:27,080 Speaker 1: understand it deeply. Yes, that is definitely the case. You 354 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:29,680 Speaker 1: have to You have to know twenty ways to come 355 00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:32,920 Speaker 1: at that idea so that you can find the key 356 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:35,399 Speaker 1: to the mind of the person you're communicating with in 357 00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:39,800 Speaker 1: that moment. So what I what happened to me is 358 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:42,640 Speaker 1: when I started giving soundbites, the press couldn't get enough 359 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:45,240 Speaker 1: of it, and so I became more and more and 360 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:47,760 Speaker 1: better and better known simply from showing up on the 361 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:51,120 Speaker 1: news commenting on the universe. To this day, people say, 362 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:53,560 Speaker 1: who's your agent? I see you and all the talk 363 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:55,920 Speaker 1: shows and all the news, and I say, my I 364 00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:59,480 Speaker 1: don't have an agent. My agent is the universe itself. 365 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:02,639 Speaker 1: Because the universe flinches and people call. Of course, when 366 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:04,280 Speaker 1: I have a book, the book has a has a 367 00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:06,359 Speaker 1: marketing person and they try to get you on. But 368 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:08,840 Speaker 1: I would say, three quarters of the time you ever 369 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:11,639 Speaker 1: see me on TV, I'm not hawking a book. I 370 00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 1: got called because the universe flinched and they want to 371 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:18,119 Speaker 1: know about it. It's like dial and astrophysics, like the 372 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:20,920 Speaker 1: bat signal. You know, okay, we need the astro physicists. 373 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:26,240 Speaker 1: Now you know. So I'm a servant of the cosmic 374 00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:29,960 Speaker 1: curiosity that burns in the belly of of us all, 375 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:33,520 Speaker 1: and I'm the I'm a servant. I'm the servant of 376 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:37,720 Speaker 1: the cosmic curiosity, a servant of the cosmic curiosity that 377 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:42,119 Speaker 1: burns burn in the belly. Where do you come up 378 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:45,280 Speaker 1: with this? Have you used that before? I don't know. 379 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 1: Maybe pieces of it, I don't know. But my point 380 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:52,640 Speaker 1: is that that the question, the caller's question. They wanted 381 00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:55,480 Speaker 1: to know how I became this, But it was not 382 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:58,480 Speaker 1: because I wake up in the morning saying how can 383 00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:00,919 Speaker 1: I bring the universe to the public today. It's if 384 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:03,680 Speaker 1: I'm being asked, let me do the best job I 385 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:05,920 Speaker 1: can and then go back to my work. Well, I 386 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:08,119 Speaker 1: have a lot more questions to ask you, and so 387 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:10,600 Speaker 1: does Brian. We're going to take a break, and I 388 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:13,480 Speaker 1: want to talk to you, Neil about the current universe 389 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:17,200 Speaker 1: we're living in the political universe and what it means 390 00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:20,199 Speaker 1: for science in America. We can go there, all right, 391 00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:35,919 Speaker 1: that's right after this, We're back with Neil Degrass Tyson, 392 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:39,920 Speaker 1: America's personal astrophysicist, as you say on your TV show 393 00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:42,959 Speaker 1: and your podcast, and we want to ask you about 394 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:47,640 Speaker 1: President Trump and the political universe in which we're living now. 395 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:52,960 Speaker 1: You've been very outspoken about the administration's budget cuts. You tweeted, 396 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:55,480 Speaker 1: the fastest way to make America Week again is to 397 00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:59,320 Speaker 1: cut science funds. Can you describe the consequences of some 398 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:03,080 Speaker 1: of the policy sees that Trump is proposing, particularly with 399 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:06,119 Speaker 1: respect to science. Yeah, by the way, so thanks for 400 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:09,800 Speaker 1: noticing that. My tweets, I try to keep them general 401 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:14,320 Speaker 1: enough so that they would apply in any administration. In fact, 402 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:17,200 Speaker 1: I don't think I even mentioned Trump once in any 403 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:20,080 Speaker 1: of the tweets. Well, make America Week again. That's pretty 404 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:26,000 Speaker 1: that's pretty clear. I'm just because at the end of 405 00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:29,800 Speaker 1: the day, it's not actually about Trump. It just isn't. 406 00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:34,720 Speaker 1: It's about what kind of country the electorate wants. And 407 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:38,159 Speaker 1: I'm not into politician bashing. You just won't see me 408 00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:44,120 Speaker 1: shouting down duly elected officials. They are elected because there's 409 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:47,160 Speaker 1: an electorate that elected them. I look at it as 410 00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:50,760 Speaker 1: here's the president, here's President Trump. Sixty million people voted 411 00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:55,160 Speaker 1: for him. He is doing basically exactly what he said 412 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:57,879 Speaker 1: he was gonna do, or exactly what we all figured 413 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:02,320 Speaker 1: he would do. So people are surprised by this. I'm 414 00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:05,680 Speaker 1: not surprised at all. So here's the challenge the challenges 415 00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:09,760 Speaker 1: What about the sixty million people that voted for him. 416 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:13,840 Speaker 1: I'm an educator. It's my duty to edge, that's to educate. 417 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:16,520 Speaker 1: That's I wrote. I wrote an op ed a several 418 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:19,720 Speaker 1: months ago titled what Science is and How and Why 419 00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:23,600 Speaker 1: it works? And in it I share with people that 420 00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:28,040 Speaker 1: science is an exploration. It's not a matter of here's 421 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:32,200 Speaker 1: a fact, not regurgitate that later. It's here's here is data. 422 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:35,800 Speaker 1: What does the data mean? How does data turn into knowledge? 423 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:39,159 Speaker 1: How does knowledge turn into wisdom and insight? How do 424 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:42,560 Speaker 1: you judge whether something is true or not? And the 425 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:47,720 Speaker 1: methods and tools of science, when applied sensibly, they're designed 426 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:53,280 Speaker 1: to empower you to know when something is true when 427 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:56,399 Speaker 1: you otherwise think it's not, and when something is not 428 00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:59,800 Speaker 1: true when you otherwise think it is. That it's in 429 00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:04,280 Speaker 1: an noculation against Charlotte's of the world, who would exploit 430 00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:07,440 Speaker 1: your ignorance of the laws of nature for their gain 431 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,840 Speaker 1: or or maybe they don't know themselves, but they've risen 432 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:15,680 Speaker 1: to power and just simply don't know. So this anti science, 433 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:20,440 Speaker 1: anti intellectualism that seems to be pervasive not only in 434 00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:24,359 Speaker 1: this country, but in other countries as well, Australia as well. 435 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:28,680 Speaker 1: It's the result of a lack of education, lack of 436 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:33,320 Speaker 1: a kind of education that that enables you to confront 437 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:40,000 Speaker 1: information skeptically. So when Americans hear from commentators on cable 438 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:43,760 Speaker 1: news shows or even from senior government officials that we 439 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:46,440 Speaker 1: don't know what's causing climate change, we don't know the 440 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:49,800 Speaker 1: extent to which humans are impacting it, how are they 441 00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:53,560 Speaker 1: supposed to assess that information and confront it. So, now 442 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,240 Speaker 1: you're an adult, and you've already been sort of ossified 443 00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:58,800 Speaker 1: from however you are educated in school. How do you 444 00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:03,720 Speaker 1: fix adults? That's the hardest thing. That's really hard because 445 00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:07,120 Speaker 1: you you weren't trained how to think freshly about new ideas. 446 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:11,800 Speaker 1: And what you can say is, well, um, are you 447 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:15,280 Speaker 1: in denial of equals mc squared? That's the founding formula 448 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:17,600 Speaker 1: for all of the Cold War? Are you in denial 449 00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:21,520 Speaker 1: of the GPS instructions on your smartphone that tells you 450 00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:23,720 Speaker 1: to turn left to get to Grandma's house? You know, 451 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:27,040 Speaker 1: there's the famous apocryphal quote where you know, what do 452 00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:29,320 Speaker 1: I need a space program. For I have the Weather Channel, 453 00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:33,520 Speaker 1: and of course every image we have of hurricanes is 454 00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:36,120 Speaker 1: from a satellite. Okay, unless there's a plane that flew 455 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:37,440 Speaker 1: over it, but that's you don't you don't get the 456 00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:40,320 Speaker 1: best images from that. So you get people who don't 457 00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:45,720 Speaker 1: fully know and understand and appreciate the magnitude of the 458 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:48,119 Speaker 1: impact of science on their lives. But that seems to 459 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 1: be translating into antipathy towards science and towards intellectual Yes, 460 00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:58,520 Speaker 1: it's it's a it's a complacency with the science that 461 00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:02,280 Speaker 1: has made their lives so comfortable and so healthy. So 462 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:05,320 Speaker 1: is it a complacency or is it an ideology that 463 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 1: leads them to that conclusion, because it's the only conclusion 464 00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:12,440 Speaker 1: that validates their politics. So if you're against government intervention 465 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:16,280 Speaker 1: in the economy, and confirming climate change requires government intervention 466 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:21,239 Speaker 1: in the economy, you can't be for confirming climate change, right, 467 00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:25,159 Speaker 1: So yeah, that's the ossification of your mind. So so 468 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:28,080 Speaker 1: people need to realize, and I've said I've said this 469 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:31,560 Speaker 1: many times that when when a new truth emerges through 470 00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:35,760 Speaker 1: scientific research, it is true whether or not you believe 471 00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:39,160 Speaker 1: in it. And so the sooner you come to realize 472 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:42,560 Speaker 1: that the sooner you will recognize what a scientific truth is, 473 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:46,879 Speaker 1: and then you should have the politics conversation on the 474 00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:51,199 Speaker 1: about those truths. Okay, So in other words, rather than 475 00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:54,520 Speaker 1: deny that humans are warming the earth, you recognize that 476 00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:57,640 Speaker 1: humans are warming the earth because that's what the science shows. Now, 477 00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:00,040 Speaker 1: go in the back room and duke it out with 478 00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:02,879 Speaker 1: your opponents across the aisle. Do you have carbon tax? 479 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:07,800 Speaker 1: Do you? Yeah? Exactly? The politics you don't have to 480 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:10,879 Speaker 1: explore that if you just say it's not happening, right. 481 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:14,359 Speaker 1: So what I thought of doing was taking everyone who 482 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:17,520 Speaker 1: denies the climate chase and put them on a low 483 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:20,680 Speaker 1: lying island. So I have to ask them, will you 484 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:24,000 Speaker 1: buy real estate on coastal communities and just see if 485 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:25,520 Speaker 1: they'll put their money where their mouth is. Do you 486 00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:27,879 Speaker 1: know who is fully aware of this and who is 487 00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:32,800 Speaker 1: listening to scientists, the military and insurance companies, because an 488 00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:38,280 Speaker 1: urban planners and urban planners. So it's it's embarrassing that 489 00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:41,440 Speaker 1: in this the twenty one century, the United States of America, 490 00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,200 Speaker 1: a country that went to the moon in a decade 491 00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:46,920 Speaker 1: that was itself rather turbulent. We had a hot war, 492 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:49,840 Speaker 1: a cold worth, civil rights movement, campus unrest. But at 493 00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:54,000 Speaker 1: no time where people saying, I don't that science, that's 494 00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:57,320 Speaker 1: not for me. Nobody said it. Back then. We were 495 00:28:57,440 --> 00:28:59,720 Speaker 1: celebrating what science could do for us. What do you 496 00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:02,560 Speaker 1: think this will do to our standing in the world. 497 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:07,200 Speaker 1: How can we invest? How can we start training this 498 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:10,360 Speaker 1: next generation of scientists because we can't keep going the 499 00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:13,520 Speaker 1: way we're going. So I have some glimmer of hope. 500 00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:17,880 Speaker 1: Here's the reality. Historically, throughout the entire twentieth century, immigrants 501 00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:21,239 Speaker 1: came to the United States from many countries who had 502 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:24,040 Speaker 1: an interest in science. In fact, a third of all 503 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:28,160 Speaker 1: the science Nobel prizes that went to Americans went to 504 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:34,400 Speaker 1: first generation immigrants a third a third. Okay, so I 505 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:41,240 Speaker 1: don't mind if American born citizens are not going into science. 506 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:44,480 Speaker 1: If we have others from around the world. We're getting 507 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:46,360 Speaker 1: the best and brightest from around the world if they're 508 00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:49,120 Speaker 1: interested in science, and they can exploit our institutions and 509 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:52,560 Speaker 1: stay here and bring their intellectual capital to our land 510 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:54,960 Speaker 1: and our economy and our health. But well, and staying 511 00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:57,040 Speaker 1: here is the key point, because what we want to do, 512 00:29:57,120 --> 00:29:59,600 Speaker 1: what we're doing now in many cases, is they come here, 513 00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:02,000 Speaker 1: they're educated here, and then we kick them out, so 514 00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:04,400 Speaker 1: we don't get the benefits of the education. And now 515 00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:09,120 Speaker 1: HTB visas are being reconsidered, right, those important visas for 516 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:12,160 Speaker 1: people who are working in tech, especially in science. Yes, 517 00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:14,760 Speaker 1: so either we kick them out or we didn't let 518 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:17,320 Speaker 1: them in in the first place. So in that case, 519 00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:21,120 Speaker 1: you it is double disaster because now we're not training 520 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:24,080 Speaker 1: the next generation of native born Americans, nor are we 521 00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:27,680 Speaker 1: allowing in international people who have an interest in science. 522 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:32,520 Speaker 1: And meanwhile, countries that were previously developing countries or countries 523 00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:35,920 Speaker 1: we never thought would be science powerhouses are building their 524 00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:40,000 Speaker 1: own infrastructure for this, like Singapore, which dedicates a percentage 525 00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:43,040 Speaker 1: of its GDP to medical research. There you go, there 526 00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:45,600 Speaker 1: you go. And as that rises up in China and 527 00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:49,800 Speaker 1: Singapore and India, no longer will people want to come here, 528 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,480 Speaker 1: even if we wanted them to, because they will have 529 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:56,120 Speaker 1: opportunities in their motherland and there and we will be 530 00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:59,760 Speaker 1: sort of orphaned in place, and we will our stature 531 00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:02,800 Speaker 1: will decrease. That was my very next sentence. We will 532 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:06,480 Speaker 1: fade from significance on the world stage. It's not a 533 00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:09,600 Speaker 1: cliff that you fall over, which which maybe would be 534 00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:11,520 Speaker 1: better if it were, because then you get injured at 535 00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:14,040 Speaker 1: the bottom and pick yourself up and fix it. It's 536 00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:17,720 Speaker 1: this slow glide, and in fact, I think it's already happening, because, 537 00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:20,840 Speaker 1: as I mentioned, I spent last night talking to a 538 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:23,959 Speaker 1: lot of the pre eminent cancer researchers in the country, 539 00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:26,760 Speaker 1: and one said that when she was at the Royal 540 00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:30,360 Speaker 1: Swedish Academy of Sciences, they said, you know, somebody said 541 00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:32,040 Speaker 1: to her, we used to look up to the United 542 00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:38,560 Speaker 1: States as the pinnacle of scientific exploration, scientific investigation, and 543 00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:41,560 Speaker 1: now justifiably, we don't feel that way. Yeah. Yeah, And 544 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:45,200 Speaker 1: that's the beginning of the end of America's greatness. And 545 00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:49,440 Speaker 1: so so I've made this point many times with Trump 546 00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:52,480 Speaker 1: as president. I said, you cannot make America great again 547 00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:57,240 Speaker 1: until you make America smart again. It's that simple. And 548 00:31:57,360 --> 00:31:59,080 Speaker 1: we all want to make America great again. And I 549 00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:03,400 Speaker 1: don't think anyone wants to make America dumb. So let's 550 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:06,560 Speaker 1: try to make America smart again, because it's that investment 551 00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:09,040 Speaker 1: in who, in what we are, in our creativity and 552 00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:12,880 Speaker 1: in our innovations that enables the greatness that we all remember, 553 00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:15,320 Speaker 1: especially when you think of the future. You were talking 554 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:19,959 Speaker 1: about that earlier about science being the key to our future. 555 00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:23,040 Speaker 1: Brian and I both talked about, uh, this study we 556 00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:27,800 Speaker 1: read recently that said of almost foreign tent American jobs 557 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:32,240 Speaker 1: could be reassigned to automated bots by their early twenty thirties, 558 00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:35,680 Speaker 1: according to a new I have no doubt. So if 559 00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:39,200 Speaker 1: you know, if we're going to adjust to this new economy, 560 00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:42,840 Speaker 1: if we're going to thrive in this new economy, we 561 00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:46,000 Speaker 1: have to teach science. Yes, well, and and it used 562 00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:49,800 Speaker 1: to it used to feel like scientific and technological progress 563 00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:52,920 Speaker 1: was our friend, that it was helping us to experience 564 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:56,520 Speaker 1: better products and services. Now it seems like it's stealing 565 00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:59,040 Speaker 1: our jobs and crushing our incomes. So how do we 566 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:02,520 Speaker 1: run around that exception? No, it's always been taking jobs. 567 00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:06,440 Speaker 1: It's always been doing that, especially automation. You know, look 568 00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:11,560 Speaker 1: at any automotive factory. You know, their their bots welding 569 00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:14,800 Speaker 1: your cars. By the way, when cars were handmade rather 570 00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:17,600 Speaker 1: than bought made, that was an error where I mean, 571 00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:20,960 Speaker 1: we're old enough on this call to remember there was 572 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:27,440 Speaker 1: a very there was a very real chance in the 573 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:30,920 Speaker 1: morning that your car would not start for some mysterious reason. 574 00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:35,080 Speaker 1: My son, who was at the time fourteen, we're watching 575 00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:37,000 Speaker 1: a movie and there's a chase scene and the person 576 00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:38,760 Speaker 1: runs to the car, gets in the car and tries 577 00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:41,560 Speaker 1: to start the car. And he said, he said, why 578 00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:44,600 Speaker 1: isn't the car started? He had never seen this as 579 00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:47,600 Speaker 1: a thing in his entire life. The car just always started. 580 00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:50,640 Speaker 1: His only thought was is it out of gas? I said, no, no, no, 581 00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:53,480 Speaker 1: there's a chance cards didn't used to start it. Give 582 00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:55,920 Speaker 1: it a chance. He'll get it started eventually, you know, 583 00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:58,320 Speaker 1: unless he floods. Unless he floods it. But then I 584 00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:00,920 Speaker 1: have to explain what that is. Right, And so my 585 00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:04,440 Speaker 1: point is that you want to be prepared for the future, 586 00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:08,359 Speaker 1: and there's a limit to how many jobs bots can take. 587 00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:11,240 Speaker 1: You know why, because if robots take all of our jobs, 588 00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:13,040 Speaker 1: then none of us will have any money to buy 589 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:16,439 Speaker 1: the products that the robots make. So it's a self 590 00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:20,040 Speaker 1: limiting issue. What do you say to people who are 591 00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:23,400 Speaker 1: very concerned about this, who work maybe even an advance 592 00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:28,840 Speaker 1: manufacturing or accounting or architects, whose jobs weren't vulnerable to 593 00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:34,200 Speaker 1: technological disruption before, but now they seem to be. That's 594 00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:37,600 Speaker 1: why it's always important to stay on the leading edge 595 00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:40,160 Speaker 1: of innovation, because you're not going to have a bot 596 00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:42,360 Speaker 1: on the leading edge. You know you're gonna have your body. 597 00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:45,799 Speaker 1: The body is after you have invented something, and then 598 00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:48,319 Speaker 1: the bot can do it for cheaper than the labor 599 00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:51,120 Speaker 1: would otherwise be to pay to have it made. You 600 00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:56,719 Speaker 1: move jobs forward with that innovation frontier. If you stagnate, 601 00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:02,759 Speaker 1: then you'll spend your entire life wine winding that the 602 00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:05,120 Speaker 1: rest of the world is taking your jobs and why 603 00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:06,759 Speaker 1: they say this is not fair. Then you gotta put 604 00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:09,560 Speaker 1: on a tariff, and then it becomes a whole political thing. 605 00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:17,080 Speaker 1: So I cannot over emphasize the importance of fostering innovation 606 00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:19,640 Speaker 1: in a country. As long as you innovate, you will 607 00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:22,040 Speaker 1: always have a place to work that the bots haven't 608 00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:24,880 Speaker 1: figured out how to catch up with. You stay ahead 609 00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:27,800 Speaker 1: of the bots. And speaking of innovating, UM, I just 610 00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:30,319 Speaker 1: want to quickly ask you about STEM because it's something 611 00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:34,279 Speaker 1: I think about a lot, especially for girls. We need 612 00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:38,000 Speaker 1: more women involved in I T. We need more women scientists, 613 00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:43,279 Speaker 1: we need more women researchers. Um, how can we get 614 00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:46,840 Speaker 1: girls more engaged in science? Neil? Yeah, I don't have 615 00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:50,080 Speaker 1: the silver bullet here. And it's not just girls, it's 616 00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:54,360 Speaker 1: underrepresented groups in general. What is going on African Americans, 617 00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:57,000 Speaker 1: for example. So I don't have a silver bullet. I 618 00:35:57,120 --> 00:36:01,759 Speaker 1: don't interact with the public differently if the audience is female, male, 619 00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:06,360 Speaker 1: or ethnically. I'm I try to bring the same messaging 620 00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:09,560 Speaker 1: anytime I'm exposed in the public. So I don't have 621 00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:12,239 Speaker 1: an answer here, and I'm still thinking about it. What 622 00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:17,880 Speaker 1: what might be interesting innovative ways educationally um to to 623 00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:21,560 Speaker 1: stimulate a broader baseline of interest. Meanwhile, we've seemed to 624 00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:25,560 Speaker 1: have a run on ignorance lately, with four NBA stars 625 00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:28,759 Speaker 1: since February publicly saying that the Earth is flat. You 626 00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:32,600 Speaker 1: got into a Twitter feud with a rapper who believes 627 00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:36,440 Speaker 1: that as well. How do you explain this regression that 628 00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:39,640 Speaker 1: seems to be happening around scientific knowledge? You know, there 629 00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:44,040 Speaker 1: is shock Shack saying well, I don't see how I'm paraphrasing. 630 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:47,239 Speaker 1: How could the Chinese people be upside down? They'd fall off, 631 00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:51,080 Speaker 1: so Earth must be flat. So that someone played that 632 00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:53,160 Speaker 1: quote back to me on the radio station, and I 633 00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:54,760 Speaker 1: was trying to think, how am I going to respond 634 00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:56,960 Speaker 1: to this? So I said, we live in a free country. 635 00:36:57,320 --> 00:36:59,040 Speaker 1: You ought to be able to think whatever you want. 636 00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:01,840 Speaker 1: You want to think the world is flat. Go right ahead, 637 00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:05,960 Speaker 1: just try to make sure you never become head of NASA. Well, 638 00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:09,160 Speaker 1: we will find jobs for you where you can think 639 00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:11,279 Speaker 1: the world is flat and they'll still pay you for 640 00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:14,480 Speaker 1: what you're doing. So in a free country, I don't 641 00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:16,879 Speaker 1: beat people over the head to say whatever they want. 642 00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:21,160 Speaker 1: But if you rise to positions of power and influence 643 00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:25,279 Speaker 1: and influence and you do not understand what science is 644 00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:29,160 Speaker 1: and how and why it works, that's just the beginning 645 00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:33,160 Speaker 1: of the end of an informed democracy, and that's what 646 00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:36,839 Speaker 1: we should fear. Let me ask you about space exploration. UM. 647 00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:40,920 Speaker 1: Last week, Elon Musk's company SpaceX reused a rocket to 648 00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:44,799 Speaker 1: launch a satellite into space. UM, what do you think 649 00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:48,720 Speaker 1: about the future of space exploration? Because it was interesting 650 00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:51,000 Speaker 1: to me that NASA's budget, compared to a lot of 651 00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:54,359 Speaker 1: other places, wasn't cut nearly as much. It was good 652 00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:56,840 Speaker 1: to cut just by a tiny little bit, that's correct. 653 00:37:57,200 --> 00:38:00,560 Speaker 1: And so that's a little bit of of of a 654 00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:05,520 Speaker 1: wolf in sheep's clothing there, because from from statements that 655 00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:10,640 Speaker 1: I've seen and heard, a tandem goal is yes, NASA 656 00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:15,319 Speaker 1: keep exploring the universe. Meanwhile, we will remove all obligation 657 00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:18,719 Speaker 1: we have previously given you to study Earth. So they's 658 00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:23,560 Speaker 1: been talking about removing Earth research from the portfolio of NASA, 659 00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:26,759 Speaker 1: and that and and that would that's that's that's a 660 00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:30,279 Speaker 1: recipe for disaster, because the Earth is a planet, and 661 00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:33,400 Speaker 1: you want to study planets in context. We have a 662 00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:36,560 Speaker 1: planet to our left that has a runaway greenhouse effect, Venus, 663 00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:40,560 Speaker 1: it's nine degrees fahrenheit. We have a planet to our right, Mars, 664 00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:44,240 Speaker 1: that once had running liquid water coursing over its surface, 665 00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:49,640 Speaker 1: bone dry today. Something bad happened on each of those planets. 666 00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:51,680 Speaker 1: And one is to our left and one is to 667 00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:55,160 Speaker 1: our right. And the context of this study is what 668 00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:59,080 Speaker 1: gives you insights into what knobs are we turning. I 669 00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:00,839 Speaker 1: don't want to look like Venus, and I don't want 670 00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:03,399 Speaker 1: to look like Mars. Is there insights I can get 671 00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:05,640 Speaker 1: to how I should then treat my own planet. Why 672 00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:08,480 Speaker 1: do you think people wouldn't want to learn those insights? Oh, 673 00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:11,279 Speaker 1: because it would give you further information about how much 674 00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:17,239 Speaker 1: human intervention in the environment is warming the planet. It's 675 00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:21,480 Speaker 1: it's it's a way to undermine studies that would find 676 00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:24,719 Speaker 1: scientific results that conflict with your political philosophy. A quick 677 00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:28,080 Speaker 1: footnote Shack did say he was kidding when he made 678 00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:31,560 Speaker 1: that statement, but Kyrie Irving from the Cleveland Cavaliers says 679 00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:35,600 Speaker 1: he was not joking. So maybe they should have a debate, 680 00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:39,000 Speaker 1: or we we take everyone who thinks Earth is flat 681 00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:40,879 Speaker 1: and just put him into orbit and leave him there 682 00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:45,440 Speaker 1: and put them only bring him back after they confess 683 00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:50,000 Speaker 1: that they were wrong all along. So Elon Musk is 684 00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:53,600 Speaker 1: trying to do this on the cheap, and occasionally you'll 685 00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:55,759 Speaker 1: see a rocket explode and people say, oh, what was this? 686 00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:58,360 Speaker 1: Does this? Is this a bad Is this a setback 687 00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:01,239 Speaker 1: for Elon Musk? The fact that has exploding rockets is 688 00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:05,000 Speaker 1: evidence he's on the frontier. You are only on the 689 00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:09,759 Speaker 1: frontier when you are making mistakes him. Yes, oh you 690 00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:12,040 Speaker 1: need somebody now Now. I'm also as big as critic. 691 00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:14,880 Speaker 1: The people, the press especially is thinking he's gonna lead 692 00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:17,719 Speaker 1: us into space, not NASA. That's not gonna happen. That's 693 00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:23,160 Speaker 1: not how this works. Okay. Oh, because just imagine that 694 00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:27,160 Speaker 1: I mentioned the venture capitalist meeting. All right, So here 695 00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:30,440 Speaker 1: I'm Elon Musk, and then I got five venture capitalists. 696 00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:33,040 Speaker 1: What's up, Elon? You need some cash? What four? Well? 697 00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:35,200 Speaker 1: I want to put the first humans on Mars. Okay, 698 00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:39,120 Speaker 1: how much will it cost? Hundreds of billions of dollars? 699 00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:43,640 Speaker 1: Probably more? Uh okay, um will it be dangerous? Yes, 700 00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:47,040 Speaker 1: people will probably die. What's the return on our investment? 701 00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:51,400 Speaker 1: I have no idea. Probably nothing. It's a five minute meeting. Okay. 702 00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:56,120 Speaker 1: Governments do these things because governments have time horizons much 703 00:40:56,239 --> 00:41:00,520 Speaker 1: longer than quarterly and annual reports. So what will happen 704 00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:03,920 Speaker 1: is the first humans on Mars will likely be Chinese 705 00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:07,200 Speaker 1: humans or American humans paid by the government. We may 706 00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:10,680 Speaker 1: do it on Elon's rocket. That could happen. I don't 707 00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:12,640 Speaker 1: have a problem with that, but it's not him doing 708 00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:15,799 Speaker 1: it as a business case, not initially. But this brings 709 00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:17,600 Speaker 1: us back to what we were talking about at the 710 00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:20,880 Speaker 1: outside of our conversation, which is, if you cut the 711 00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:23,919 Speaker 1: e p a s Office of Research and Development in half, 712 00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:28,360 Speaker 1: if you cut the National Institutes of Health by and 713 00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:32,440 Speaker 1: your argument as well, private industry and drug companies should 714 00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:36,480 Speaker 1: do this research, not taxpayers. What you're really doing is 715 00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:40,600 Speaker 1: cutting off this research entirely that the private industry won't 716 00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:43,279 Speaker 1: do it. So what you're cutting off I think people 717 00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:46,359 Speaker 1: don't understand R and D. So R and D when 718 00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:50,160 Speaker 1: conducted by a company, is money invested on the premise 719 00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:53,120 Speaker 1: that it will bring a return on that investment in 720 00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:56,279 Speaker 1: their near future in the same year, in a couple 721 00:41:56,320 --> 00:42:00,560 Speaker 1: of years, at most five years. Okay, that's what people 722 00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:02,440 Speaker 1: think of as R and D. But there's another kind 723 00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:05,160 Speaker 1: of R and D. Well, there's just are the R 724 00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:09,279 Speaker 1: that goes on in universities where there is no yet 725 00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:11,960 Speaker 1: known return on that investment because they are on a 726 00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:16,000 Speaker 1: frontier that has a greater distance from the applicability of 727 00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:21,440 Speaker 1: that research. That is the seed corn of tomorrow's innovations, 728 00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:25,800 Speaker 1: technological innovations. If you take that away and require that 729 00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:30,000 Speaker 1: all research has to be directed towards a thing, we 730 00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:32,040 Speaker 1: would have never had the I T Revolution in the 731 00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:34,800 Speaker 1: first place. And that's when all the scientists go to 732 00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:38,920 Speaker 1: another country because they can get funding there exactly. And 733 00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:42,520 Speaker 1: then America America. There's another excuse for how and why 734 00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:46,640 Speaker 1: America will fade. Let's end on a more positive note, 735 00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:57,440 Speaker 1: Chille declining America. So tell us what you're excited about 736 00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:01,520 Speaker 1: when you look to the future. Is there anything please you? Well? 737 00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:05,080 Speaker 1: So yes, I am okay, So the next generation call 738 00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:08,480 Speaker 1: them thirty and under. I think by my sort of 739 00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:15,239 Speaker 1: empirical observations. Uh, they're more scientifically literate than any previous demographic. Ever, 740 00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:20,920 Speaker 1: they grew up with a smartphone. They know whether or 741 00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:25,640 Speaker 1: not they understand it. They know that the smartphone which 742 00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:31,480 Speaker 1: they embrace was created by this summation of physics and 743 00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:37,240 Speaker 1: engineering and space. So they're not the ones statistically telling 744 00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:39,880 Speaker 1: you I will choose to believe this science and not 745 00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:43,680 Speaker 1: that science. I don't trust scientists scientists, No, these are 746 00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:46,799 Speaker 1: not those people. They have an agenda, write agenda. Yeah, 747 00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:48,879 Speaker 1: we all all. That's what we do. All scientists get 748 00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:52,640 Speaker 1: together just to put on a hoax. Yeah, that's what 749 00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:57,560 Speaker 1: we that's really what we do. So that next generation 750 00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:04,960 Speaker 1: is is embracing films like the Martian films like like 751 00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:10,399 Speaker 1: The Imitation Game, films like The Theory of Everything, biopics 752 00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:15,600 Speaker 1: about scientists, and first run dramas that features science as 753 00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:19,640 Speaker 1: a character unto itself. There's Matt Damon's character trying to 754 00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:24,400 Speaker 1: not die by the invocation of his formidable knowledge of 755 00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:28,440 Speaker 1: stem fields. Okay, so let's do the man. I have 756 00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:31,040 Speaker 1: enough food to last for fifty days. He's going to 757 00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:34,479 Speaker 1: starve to death long before we can open. I'm gonna 758 00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:39,080 Speaker 1: have the science that was the suspense in the film, 759 00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:42,759 Speaker 1: with a marquee director which was Ridley Scott, and and 760 00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:47,760 Speaker 1: five starring actors, each who have started their own film 761 00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:50,920 Speaker 1: come together for a movie that was anchored in science. 762 00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:53,239 Speaker 1: I think, if you're under thirty, you're just not old 763 00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:55,600 Speaker 1: enough yet to be senator or president, or head of 764 00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:58,360 Speaker 1: state or head of agency or head of corporation. I 765 00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:00,719 Speaker 1: give him a few more years. I think they'll straighten 766 00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:01,680 Speaker 1: it all out, and then I can go to the 767 00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:05,040 Speaker 1: Bahamas and they they can fix everything that we broke 768 00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:07,399 Speaker 1: for them. I understand you have a new book coming out, 769 00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:10,440 Speaker 1: by the way about it. So it comes out in 770 00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:12,640 Speaker 1: just a couple of weeks, the beginning of May. And 771 00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:17,800 Speaker 1: it's titled Astrophysics for People in a Hurry, And so 772 00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:20,319 Speaker 1: it is a it is my it's a short book. 773 00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:24,640 Speaker 1: It's an adorable little book. My intent is to take 774 00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:28,919 Speaker 1: all this fragments of astrophysics headlines that have come your way, 775 00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:35,560 Speaker 1: Exo Planets, big Bank, black Hole spaces, all of these 776 00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:38,840 Speaker 1: fragments of headlines that are sort of dangling there in 777 00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:42,920 Speaker 1: front of you, and this book brings it together, enabling 778 00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:47,200 Speaker 1: you to consummate your relationship with the cosmos. I like 779 00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:51,319 Speaker 1: that consummate your relationship with the cosmos. That's that's sort 780 00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:55,759 Speaker 1: of sounds sort of dirty, but you're so poetic when 781 00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:58,839 Speaker 1: you speak. It's it's I'm I'm kind of annoyed. I'm 782 00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:02,800 Speaker 1: jealous because don't you wish you could be this eloquent Brian? 783 00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:05,400 Speaker 1: I mean you are, Brian, but no, I never I 784 00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:07,759 Speaker 1: never will be. I feel like I could really use 785 00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:09,839 Speaker 1: the universe for dummies, which is what I'm calling your 786 00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:12,799 Speaker 1: new book, Neil. So I'm very excited about that. It's 787 00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:16,239 Speaker 1: not for dummies, it's for people in a herb. Yeah, 788 00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:18,600 Speaker 1: people in a hurry. That's a little euphemistic, isn't it 789 00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:20,920 Speaker 1: Those of us who aren't educating. It is so not 790 00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:24,760 Speaker 1: dumbed down. All the language is real for non deep thinkers, 791 00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:27,440 Speaker 1: and all the language is real. Well, this has been 792 00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:31,520 Speaker 1: really fun, really enlightening, and I think really important. So 793 00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:35,400 Speaker 1: god speed, Thank you, and that's what we say to 794 00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:38,800 Speaker 1: anyone go into space. God speed, and I take that 795 00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:43,319 Speaker 1: very warmly and dearly from you. As always, we want 796 00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:46,840 Speaker 1: to thank our fantastic producer, Gianna Palmer for putting together 797 00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:50,600 Speaker 1: the show, to Ryan Connor and Eric krupkey for engineer 798 00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:55,160 Speaker 1: officer crucky, you've done it again, and then the end 799 00:46:55,239 --> 00:46:58,759 Speaker 1: of the song, I like g officer crupkey, crup you. 800 00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:03,480 Speaker 1: And to Jared O'Connell for mixing the show and sadly 801 00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:06,800 Speaker 1: there's no song about Jared. Thanks also to our social 802 00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:10,240 Speaker 1: come up with something Maybe. Thanks also to our social 803 00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:13,320 Speaker 1: media maven Alison bres Nick, and to Emily Beena for 804 00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:15,560 Speaker 1: her part in producing the show. We also want to 805 00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:19,799 Speaker 1: thank Nora Richie for additional editorial assistance. Mark Phillips, thank 806 00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:22,799 Speaker 1: you so much for our theme music. Katie Currik, Mitch 807 00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:25,120 Speaker 1: Simil and I are the executive producers of this show. 808 00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:28,040 Speaker 1: We love hearing from you, We truly do, so. Don't 809 00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:30,960 Speaker 1: forget to call us with questions for Eina Garden. I 810 00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:34,319 Speaker 1: love Eena Garten and my daughters are absolutely obsessed with her. 811 00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:37,040 Speaker 1: You can call us at nine to nine to four 812 00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:40,040 Speaker 1: four six three seven, or you can email us at 813 00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:43,640 Speaker 1: comments at correct podcast dot com, or you can find 814 00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:46,480 Speaker 1: me on social media. I'm Katie Currik on Twitter and Instagram, 815 00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:51,240 Speaker 1: Katie dot correct on Snapchat, Brian is Goldsmith B on Twitter, 816 00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:54,200 Speaker 1: and if you haven't already, please subscribe to our show, 817 00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:57,960 Speaker 1: so you get every episode right when it drops hot 818 00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:01,160 Speaker 1: off the presses. God, how old I sound. And we'd 819 00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:09,719 Speaker 1: love if you'd rate and review us on iTunes. H