WEBVTT - Mountains of Evidence 0:00:00.400 --> 0:00:03.920 The cheerleaders at a gym in Buffalo have been recording 0:00:03.960 --> 0:00:09.240 themselves to make a new documentary where the news reporters 0:00:09.240 --> 0:00:13.160 because one year ago a mass shooting changed their lives. 0:00:13.200 --> 0:00:15.400 He just walked around shot all the black people. The 0:00:15.480 --> 0:00:18.440 cheer squad, most of whom are black, had to figure 0:00:18.480 --> 0:00:21.160 out how to go on and how to compete. I 0:00:21.280 --> 0:00:23.840 wanted to win for them more than anything this season. 0:00:24.000 --> 0:00:28.640 Listen to the embedded podcast from NPR within the iHeartRadio app, 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:32.720 or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Carol Fisher and 0:00:32.760 --> 0:00:36.800 I'm hosting a podcast called The Girlfriends. It's Las Vegas, 0:00:36.960 --> 0:00:40.200 it's the nineteen nineties, and it is time to find 0:00:40.240 --> 0:00:44.560 a husband. There were four Jewish doctors who were felt 0:00:44.600 --> 0:00:48.040 to be eligible bachelors. One of them was of the 0:00:48.640 --> 0:00:53.239 Baron bat On paper, he was perfect, but in reality, 0:00:53.440 --> 0:00:58.080 this guy's a wacko. He shouted to the point went unconscious. 0:00:58.280 --> 0:01:00.560 I would call him and I would say, I know 0:01:00.600 --> 0:01:03.520 you killed my sister. You can listen to The Girlfriends 0:01:03.600 --> 0:01:07.680 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get 0:01:07.680 --> 0:01:11.120 your podcasts. I'm will daily. For years have been on 0:01:11.160 --> 0:01:13.800 the road playing shows and seeing America through live music 0:01:14.319 --> 0:01:16.320 this summer, I'll hit the stage who Season two of 0:01:16.400 --> 0:01:20.960 Sound of Our Town ten cities twelve episodes every other Thursday, 0:01:21.319 --> 0:01:23.600 we explore the live music venues and culture of a 0:01:23.640 --> 0:01:26.920 new American city. With each new episode, our tour continues 0:01:26.959 --> 0:01:28.440 into the kind of venues you want to get to 0:01:28.560 --> 0:01:33.120 when you landed in Detroit, Providence, Denver or Seattle. Listen 0:01:33.160 --> 0:01:35.679 to Sound of Our Town on the iHeartRadio app, Apple 0:01:35.720 --> 0:01:41.000 Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hart, I'm Freedom 0:01:41.240 --> 0:01:44.080 and I'm Rthie. We have spent the last twenty years 0:01:44.319 --> 0:01:46.920 building and working at some of the largest companies in 0:01:46.959 --> 0:01:50.480 the world. We worked with some remarkable people. Rob mcalinney. 0:01:50.640 --> 0:01:52.520 When I see the people of Wrexham, I grew up 0:01:52.520 --> 0:01:55.360 exactly like them. Check out the Art and Trurom show. 0:01:55.680 --> 0:02:00.720 That is a R d HI and sr Hi r 0:02:01.360 --> 0:02:04.440 M show. Listen to the Arc the Industry I'm show 0:02:04.520 --> 0:02:08.200 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast Oh. Whenever you get 0:02:08.200 --> 0:02:14.760 to your podcast new details into what was uncovered at 0:02:14.760 --> 0:02:19.080 the gruesome crime scenes in Pike County. The prosecutors began 0:02:19.120 --> 0:02:23.400 their painstaking process of walking through every single piece of evidence, 0:02:23.480 --> 0:02:26.680 focusing on that first home owned by Chris Rodent Senior. 0:02:27.320 --> 0:02:29.880 When you've got to make it through eight homicize your 0:02:29.960 --> 0:02:32.680 dann Riot is going to take a long time because 0:02:32.720 --> 0:02:36.240 each one of those people count each person had a life. 0:02:37.240 --> 0:02:39.600 This has to be one of the most horrific things, 0:02:39.600 --> 0:02:45.320 if not the most horrific knight of this person's life. 0:02:48.000 --> 0:02:51.240 This is the Pikes And Massacre. Returned to Pike County 0:02:51.840 --> 0:02:59.560 season four, episode six, Mountains of Evidence. I'm Courtney Armstrong 0:02:59.639 --> 0:03:03.360 until vision producer at Katie Studios with Stephanie Leidecker and 0:03:03.440 --> 0:03:07.880 Jeff Shane. Thus far, George Wagner the fourth trial has 0:03:07.919 --> 0:03:12.400 been both mundane and shocking. It's important to note that 0:03:12.480 --> 0:03:15.920 George Wagner, the fourth currently on trial, has pleaded not 0:03:16.000 --> 0:03:21.120 guilty and has maintained he did not kill anyone. His father, 0:03:21.320 --> 0:03:24.840 Billy Wagner, whose trial is upcoming, has also pleaded not 0:03:24.919 --> 0:03:30.160 guilty to all charges. The prosecution is making its case methodically, 0:03:30.600 --> 0:03:35.000 with hours of testimony, occasionally punctuated with gruesome new details 0:03:35.040 --> 0:03:39.080 of the night in question. The defense has been mostly quiet, 0:03:39.560 --> 0:03:42.600 seemingly waiting for Angie Kannappa and her team to present 0:03:42.640 --> 0:03:49.800 anything dying George Wagner to the crime safely college. Next witness, 0:03:53.520 --> 0:03:55.960 please raise you right hand. You solemnly swear or affirm 0:03:56.040 --> 0:03:58.320 that the testimony you were about to get showing the truth, 0:03:58.360 --> 0:04:00.280 the whole truth, and nothing that's the truth, that you 0:04:00.360 --> 0:04:04.880 shall answer under God, Yes, Sir, I did. Shane Henshaw 0:04:04.960 --> 0:04:07.240 was one of the lead agents for the Ohio Bureau 0:04:07.320 --> 0:04:12.720 of Criminal Investigations, or the CBI. He arrived unseen hours 0:04:12.760 --> 0:04:15.480 after the bodies of Chris Roden Senior and his cousin 0:04:15.520 --> 0:04:19.719 Gary Rodin were discovered. This morning, Andrew Wilson is asking 0:04:19.760 --> 0:04:24.120 the questions for the prosecution's talk a little bit about 0:04:24.200 --> 0:04:28.520 your background or your employment history, taking you up to 0:04:28.600 --> 0:04:31.560 your current employment. So when did you start out in 0:04:31.680 --> 0:04:35.960 law force. I was basically commissioned as a peace officer 0:04:36.400 --> 0:04:41.240 in nineteen ninety. The first fifteen minutes of testimony highlight 0:04:41.320 --> 0:04:46.680 Hanshaw's qualifications. He has years of training and crime scene reconstruction, 0:04:46.800 --> 0:04:52.000 ballistics and blood spatter analysis when I first arrived at 0:04:52.160 --> 0:04:56.400 saying you can see here that there's a lot of buildings, 0:04:56.440 --> 0:04:59.960 there's there's a lot of things that are primary folks. 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:06.240 So that the prosecution displays a large photo of Chris 0:05:06.320 --> 0:05:10.640 Roden Senior's property agent Henshaw points out the front yard. 0:05:11.480 --> 0:05:14.000 A tow truck sits outside the home Chris Senior lived 0:05:14.000 --> 0:05:17.560 in where Gary was staying that night. There's an eighteen 0:05:17.560 --> 0:05:20.920 wheeler trailer and an eighty sedan with the front half missing. 0:05:22.360 --> 0:05:26.599 Henshaw began his investigation on the lawn itself. As part 0:05:26.640 --> 0:05:28.160 of your work in this case, did you pluck the 0:05:28.160 --> 0:05:32.200 mountain can it's depicted that picture, Yes, I did. In 0:05:32.240 --> 0:05:35.160 addition to that mountain dew can. Did you find a 0:05:35.200 --> 0:05:38.400 couple other items out front of boards? Your seven seven 0:05:38.760 --> 0:05:41.520 union help writ yes, sir. Once again, you see my 0:05:42.120 --> 0:05:46.080 plaquard number two, the scale plaquard and uh you see 0:05:46.120 --> 0:05:51.200 a cigarette butt or a partial cigarette. But there when 0:05:51.240 --> 0:05:54.400 it comes to testifying, it's clear Handshaw as well practiced. 0:05:55.400 --> 0:05:58.680 He listens intently to every question, then turns deliberately to 0:05:58.760 --> 0:06:02.640 address the jury face to face. As part of your 0:06:02.680 --> 0:06:05.839 work in this case, did you collect that cigarette butt? Yes, sir, 0:06:05.920 --> 0:06:09.640 I did. From everything that I've seen and heard, he 0:06:09.800 --> 0:06:12.800 did an excellent job with it. No question about any 0:06:12.839 --> 0:06:15.640 of the advertage that had been not propered by the state, 0:06:16.080 --> 0:06:20.080 And I think that's a large part because of BCA's professionalism. 0:06:21.240 --> 0:06:24.280 The mountain dew can and cigarette butts contained traces of 0:06:24.400 --> 0:06:28.760 Gary Roden's DNA. Next Handshawn Fortner moved on to the 0:06:28.839 --> 0:06:32.240 exterior of the trailer. Tell us what stood out to 0:06:32.279 --> 0:06:34.840 you when you did that initial look. I noticed that 0:06:34.920 --> 0:06:38.000 there were multiple bullet holes in the front of the house. 0:06:38.640 --> 0:06:41.520 There were six bullet holes in a line moving progressively 0:06:41.600 --> 0:06:44.600 closer to the door. You notice the screen door had 0:06:44.640 --> 0:06:47.440 bullet holes, but the front door did not. Was that correct? Yes, 0:06:47.800 --> 0:06:49.800 I've seen that. That led me to believe that the 0:06:49.880 --> 0:06:52.360 front door was most likely opened when the blood lighting 0:06:52.360 --> 0:06:56.200 event had occurred on the evening of April twenty first, 0:06:56.240 --> 0:06:58.960 twenty sixteen. It was clear and breezy and piked in 0:07:00.160 --> 0:07:03.480 temperatures win the low seventies until about seven pm, when 0:07:03.520 --> 0:07:06.479 the wind picked up, dropping the temperature to the high fifties. 0:07:07.839 --> 0:07:10.520 The open door likely provided Chris and Gary with some 0:07:10.640 --> 0:07:15.520 welcomed fresh air. Stephanie and I talk about some of 0:07:15.600 --> 0:07:18.560 the photographs shown in trial and the details they reveal. 0:07:19.840 --> 0:07:21.760 We've heard a lot of reports over the years that 0:07:21.920 --> 0:07:27.920 Chris Sior, Frankie Rodin, and even Chris Jor Rodin worked 0:07:27.960 --> 0:07:32.080 at Big Bear Lake at various times. They operated big equipment. 0:07:32.280 --> 0:07:35.720 We know that Chris sor was said to be building 0:07:35.800 --> 0:07:39.240 patios in and around the area, but we've never been 0:07:39.320 --> 0:07:44.480 able to substantiate those claims essentially until now. Gary Roden, 0:07:44.640 --> 0:07:47.480 Chris Senior, Roden's cousin also worked at Big Bear Lake, 0:07:47.760 --> 0:07:51.400 specifically when he was staying with Chris Rodin, which he 0:07:51.520 --> 0:07:54.760 did on occasion, and this was one of the times 0:07:54.840 --> 0:07:57.520 that he was staying there, you know, working just to 0:07:57.600 --> 0:08:01.160 make a living. Looking at the crime scene, Phoe, we 0:08:01.280 --> 0:08:03.960 can see the clothing that Chris Senior was wearing when 0:08:04.000 --> 0:08:08.160 he was murdered, and he's literally wearing a hooded sweatshirt 0:08:08.520 --> 0:08:13.520 that says big bare leg on it. The question as 0:08:13.560 --> 0:08:16.080 to whether Chris and Gary road and knew their attackers 0:08:16.320 --> 0:08:21.600 or whether they were taken by surprise still remains. Here's 0:08:21.640 --> 0:08:27.000 forensic medical examiner Joseph Scott Morgan. They had to neutralize 0:08:27.160 --> 0:08:30.920 Chris Senior and Gary the positions that they occupied in 0:08:30.960 --> 0:08:34.439 the family. Chris was known not to back down if 0:08:34.480 --> 0:08:37.280 they did not neutralize them, if they just say, grazed 0:08:37.360 --> 0:08:39.280 him in some way and he was able to retreat, 0:08:39.400 --> 0:08:41.559 or Gary was able to retreat, They had access to 0:08:41.679 --> 0:08:45.480 phones or maybe he had an ability to get out 0:08:45.520 --> 0:08:48.679 of that trailer. They could blow the whole show them 0:08:48.720 --> 0:08:52.200 way because the next thing you know, Dana is aware 0:08:52.480 --> 0:08:56.040 of what's about to happen. Hannah is aware, and her 0:08:56.120 --> 0:08:58.959 trailer were what's going to happen. They couldn't run the 0:08:59.040 --> 0:09:02.040 risk of a mountain these people to get to jump 0:09:02.120 --> 0:09:04.000 on them or to a lurn anybody else. So I 0:09:04.080 --> 0:09:06.959 think that that's why they was Chris's house first and 0:09:07.200 --> 0:09:16.320 neutralize Chris Senior. Injurios same time, prosecuting attorney Wilson brings 0:09:16.400 --> 0:09:19.480 up photos of clean exit holes on the interior wall 0:09:19.600 --> 0:09:23.199 of the trailer. There are torn bits of woods circling 0:09:23.280 --> 0:09:28.240 the holes. What does that indicate to you? It indicates directionality. 0:09:28.480 --> 0:09:33.280 First of all, that whatever object calls that would have 0:09:34.120 --> 0:09:37.480 appeared to be coming from the outside end, because this 0:09:37.679 --> 0:09:39.959 is on the inside or every bull that will be 0:09:40.080 --> 0:09:44.439 tract had characteristics and appeared to come from the front 0:09:44.480 --> 0:09:47.920 of the residence toward the residence and then away from 0:09:47.960 --> 0:09:53.600 the residence. And again, would these consistent with half through 0:09:54.320 --> 0:10:01.920 type shots? Yes, sir, some of the bullets went clean 0:10:02.000 --> 0:10:05.680 through the trailer and out through the opposite wall. Here again, 0:10:06.080 --> 0:10:10.040 Joseph Scott Morgan. Well, first off, you're talking about a 0:10:10.200 --> 0:10:15.600 mobile home, which is obviously not the most robust structure anyway, 0:10:16.040 --> 0:10:19.360 You've got a projectile that is traveling out into that muzzle, 0:10:19.920 --> 0:10:23.160 and it is supersonic. That means that with a hopowered rifle, 0:10:23.720 --> 0:10:27.719 it is actually traveling faster than speed of sound. That 0:10:27.960 --> 0:10:31.520 little paper thin wall within a mobile home is not 0:10:31.640 --> 0:10:34.600 going to stop one of these high velocity browns. It's 0:10:34.640 --> 0:10:38.800 going to travel through till it strikes another area or 0:10:39.000 --> 0:10:43.120 person that it would have sufficiently slowed it down, and 0:10:43.280 --> 0:10:46.079 so it would have been I think, a moment of 0:10:46.200 --> 0:10:52.400 total chaos and confusion. One photo shows an exit hole 0:10:52.559 --> 0:10:55.839 right next to Walart that says, quote love less forever. 0:10:57.200 --> 0:10:59.760 The jury has shown a diagram of where bullet shards 0:10:59.800 --> 0:11:03.400 were found inside the trailer. There are two on the 0:11:03.480 --> 0:11:05.920 front porch and a bunch around the chair. In Chris 0:11:06.000 --> 0:11:10.560 Senior's living room, a bullet is lodged in a stereo 0:11:10.640 --> 0:11:14.640 speaker as well. In addition to that projectile that you 0:11:14.760 --> 0:11:17.960 just identified from inside the wall, there were there are 0:11:17.960 --> 0:11:22.280 other projectiles in different areas of that living room. Yes, okay, 0:11:23.559 --> 0:11:26.040 there's a stack of tan pouches and boxes in front 0:11:26.080 --> 0:11:29.800 of Agent Handshaw. At this point, George Wagner fiddles with 0:11:29.920 --> 0:11:35.240 his goatee. His defense attorney checks his watch. Every bullet 0:11:35.360 --> 0:11:38.240 chart that was collected is painstakingly taken out of its 0:11:38.280 --> 0:11:42.360 corresponding envelope and confirmed by Handshaw as evidence he bagged 0:11:42.440 --> 0:11:48.199 six years ago. Here's James Pilcher, Longcome investigative reporter in 0:11:48.280 --> 0:11:52.400 Cincinnati now with Local twelve, followed by Joseph Scott Morgan. 0:11:53.559 --> 0:11:55.599 I mean a lot of us in the media and 0:11:55.760 --> 0:12:00.640 in the Lake community laming not lawyers are why can't 0:12:00.679 --> 0:12:02.840 they speed this up? Why are they going through every shieldcase? 0:12:03.200 --> 0:12:05.320 I think they're trying to cut the defense off at 0:12:05.360 --> 0:12:08.239 the knees as much as possible to say, we exhausted 0:12:08.520 --> 0:12:14.240 every avenue and came up with this conclusion, and we 0:12:15.120 --> 0:12:17.600 looked at every cigarette butt, and we looked at every 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:21.760 DNA sample, and we did everything we could. You know, 0:12:22.000 --> 0:12:24.760 we live in a faster food world people. I think 0:12:24.800 --> 0:12:29.240 it even extends out to courtroom. They want things delivered 0:12:29.320 --> 0:12:33.920 to them immediately, and sometimes it takes longer to prepare. 0:12:34.120 --> 0:12:37.800 It certainly takes much longer to make your way through it. 0:12:38.000 --> 0:12:40.160 And that's the case with this we're talking about eight 0:12:40.280 --> 0:12:48.640 dead bodies here, eight in four different locations. Was there 0:12:48.800 --> 0:12:51.280 any evidence that you saw with your eyes, based on 0:12:51.400 --> 0:12:53.839 your knowledge, you're training, your experience, that led you to 0:12:53.920 --> 0:12:58.679 believe that any shots had originated from inside of that trailer. 0:12:58.960 --> 0:13:03.040 Going outside of that trailer, I found nothing at all 0:13:03.120 --> 0:13:07.160 that would indicate that any shots were fired from within 0:13:07.280 --> 0:13:12.120 the house. Going out of the house, my opinion was 0:13:12.320 --> 0:13:15.959 that the shots did occur from outside. I felt that 0:13:16.040 --> 0:13:23.280 they were from the front yard area. Agent Todd Partner 0:13:23.400 --> 0:13:25.400 was brought in to use what is called a Pharaoh 0:13:25.520 --> 0:13:29.800 three D scanner of the entire crime scene, including the exterior. 0:13:31.000 --> 0:13:39.280 Here again Joseph Scott Morgan with the Farrow technology. It 0:13:39.440 --> 0:13:41.920 is a laser that is set up and it's kind 0:13:41.920 --> 0:13:44.679 of hard to describe it. Folks have not seen one. 0:13:45.520 --> 0:13:49.600 It sits on a tripod and it is a can 0:13:49.720 --> 0:13:53.439 to something that you would see along the side of 0:13:53.480 --> 0:13:56.280 the roadway if you've ever seen an individual doing surveying. 0:13:57.160 --> 0:14:01.240 Only the scene is automated and you have the lasers 0:14:01.360 --> 0:14:05.439 that are being essentially blasted out of one portion of 0:14:05.480 --> 0:14:10.160 the unit, and the unit itself is spinning around as 0:14:10.240 --> 0:14:14.120 these lasers are kind of firing off in every different direction. 0:14:14.320 --> 0:14:19.520 The laser is shooting over ten million different points as 0:14:19.560 --> 0:14:24.720 it spins around, and you can capture height, depth, width, 0:14:25.480 --> 0:14:27.600 all of those things that we could normally do with 0:14:27.680 --> 0:14:31.600 a regular SLR unit scene. So it really breeds life 0:14:31.680 --> 0:14:34.000 into this when you're taking a look at it. And 0:14:34.120 --> 0:14:37.480 so when the jury members see this in that courtroom 0:14:37.720 --> 0:14:41.560 in Pike County, Ohio for just a few moments, they're 0:14:41.600 --> 0:14:50.560 transported back in time. Walk us through, what do you 0:14:50.600 --> 0:14:54.200 remember about scanning that scene. We did one scan from 0:14:54.240 --> 0:14:57.600 outside out front where you could see kind of the 0:14:57.680 --> 0:15:02.360 whole front yard, bullet holes in the front of the 0:15:02.480 --> 0:15:07.680 trailer that subsequently we placed trajectory rods in, and to 0:15:07.840 --> 0:15:11.080 measure those, we place spheres on those rods that then 0:15:11.160 --> 0:15:17.200 the scanner can pick up to measure our angles. Trajectory 0:15:17.280 --> 0:15:20.440 rods are poked through bullet holes, giving investigators a general 0:15:20.520 --> 0:15:22.720 idea of the path of the bullet as it passed 0:15:22.800 --> 0:15:26.800 through a surface. He pulls a three D model of 0:15:26.880 --> 0:15:29.880 the entire yard with long lines running into the front yard. 0:15:30.960 --> 0:15:34.400 Based on the angular measurement data. We take the horizontal 0:15:34.480 --> 0:15:37.640 angle the vertical angle, and this is just a line 0:15:37.880 --> 0:15:40.560 drawn between those two spheres a straight line that then 0:15:40.640 --> 0:15:44.800 can be extrapolated back to a possible origin of those shots. 0:15:45.400 --> 0:15:48.720 Based on the data that the farrow scan was telling you, 0:15:49.520 --> 0:15:51.360 was it believed that those shots that went through that 0:15:51.480 --> 0:15:54.800 front door came somewhere from the area just behind that 0:15:54.920 --> 0:15:58.040 bushold They point to a spot in the ground about 0:15:58.080 --> 0:16:00.560 twenty feet from the front door on the front lawn. 0:16:02.120 --> 0:16:03.840 What we do know is there are strikes in the 0:16:03.920 --> 0:16:05.320 front of the porch, so it had to be at 0:16:05.400 --> 0:16:09.120 least there, and where the trajectory lines end on the ground, 0:16:09.160 --> 0:16:14.480 swop couldn't be any further round. Joseph Scott Morgan. These 0:16:14.600 --> 0:16:18.200 rounds appear to be going from below to above, so 0:16:18.320 --> 0:16:21.600 they're rising up essentially from the ground. More than likely 0:16:21.680 --> 0:16:24.320 they would be in a kneeling position. I think folks 0:16:24.360 --> 0:16:26.000 would ask, well, why would you be in a kneeling 0:16:26.080 --> 0:16:29.320 position to do that? Well, you would want to try 0:16:29.440 --> 0:16:34.120 to secure your person as solidly as you possibly can 0:16:34.280 --> 0:16:37.760 because the recoil, and with this particular weapon, there is 0:16:37.760 --> 0:16:40.760 a tremendous amount of recoil. Because this is such a 0:16:41.040 --> 0:16:44.360 robust round, you're going to feel it from the moment 0:16:44.480 --> 0:16:47.800 you engage that trigger until that energy transfers through the 0:16:48.360 --> 0:16:53.640 butt of that weapon and into your shoulder. Here's Stephanie. 0:16:55.040 --> 0:17:00.400 We've also heard reports that Senior with expecting Billy Wagner, 0:17:00.600 --> 0:17:03.920 the accused dad, that night. They were apparently going to 0:17:04.000 --> 0:17:06.959 have an important conversation. So what does that mean? Does 0:17:07.000 --> 0:17:10.040 that mean that Billy went up to the front door 0:17:10.280 --> 0:17:12.879 and knocked on it and Chris answered, Could it be 0:17:13.000 --> 0:17:16.640 that they were just surprised? Does the idea of there 0:17:16.680 --> 0:17:21.320 being a person kneeling in wait outside of Chris Senior's 0:17:21.400 --> 0:17:25.440 home in the dark near the woods is such a 0:17:25.600 --> 0:17:30.000 terrifying thought. But we still don't know who that person is, 0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:36.240 which one wasn't. We're going to take a break. We'll 0:17:36.240 --> 0:17:42.320 be back in a moment. Oh. I'm Carol Fisher and 0:17:42.400 --> 0:17:45.480 I'm hosting a podcast called The Girl Friends. Back in 0:17:45.560 --> 0:17:48.560 the nineteen nineties in Las Vegas, a few of us 0:17:48.640 --> 0:17:53.680 dated the most eligible bachelor in town, Bob. He spoke 0:17:53.840 --> 0:17:59.800 several languages, he did medical missionary work, and he was Jewish. 0:18:00.240 --> 0:18:04.840 He was perfect on paper, but he wasn't. He really wasn't. 0:18:05.160 --> 0:18:09.480 He choked into the point she went unconscious. Bob could 0:18:09.600 --> 0:18:13.120 lie about of anything, but only takes the one time 0:18:13.240 --> 0:18:17.520 when somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob, us girlfriends 0:18:17.640 --> 0:18:20.080 know how to fight back. I wanted him to pay 0:18:20.200 --> 0:18:23.160 for his crime. He needed to be put to justice. 0:18:23.440 --> 0:18:25.000 I'll be honest with you. If I saw him right now, 0:18:25.000 --> 0:18:27.280 I'd spit on him. I would call him and I 0:18:27.359 --> 0:18:30.160 would say, I know you killed my sister. I will 0:18:30.280 --> 0:18:33.200 always hound you and haunt you. You can listen to 0:18:33.280 --> 0:18:37.399 the girl Friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or 0:18:37.480 --> 0:18:42.360 wherever you get your podcasts from iHeart podcasts. Whitney. Hell 0:18:42.480 --> 0:18:45.880 is going on here. Everyone has their limits. I'd never 0:18:46.000 --> 0:18:48.280 confronted a situation like this. I just thought it was 0:18:48.359 --> 0:18:51.800 just a really terrible immoral thing, a line they won't cross. 0:18:52.080 --> 0:18:55.440 I was stunned, and I just said, no, we're killing people. 0:18:55.960 --> 0:18:58.680 You may never have to face that decision when you 0:18:58.800 --> 0:19:02.440 find yourself at that line. Thoughts ricin aren't ricin, And 0:19:02.720 --> 0:19:06.160 somebody needs to just for once give everybody the whole truth. 0:19:06.280 --> 0:19:10.760 Probably this is evil, and the only person who can 0:19:10.840 --> 0:19:14.080 sound the alarm is you. I wasn't just going to 0:19:14.160 --> 0:19:19.720 sit silently. Buy from iHeart podcasts. These are the whistleblowers. 0:19:19.920 --> 0:19:22.159 If you are disloyal, things are going to happen to 0:19:22.240 --> 0:19:25.320 speak out disgrace to our good. Evil play should be 0:19:25.600 --> 0:19:31.640 prosecute when power corrupts, conscience is the last line of defense. 0:19:32.720 --> 0:19:36.480 I'm Miles Taylor. Listen to the Whistleblowers on the iHeartRadio app, 0:19:36.720 --> 0:19:45.600 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. My name's 0:19:45.680 --> 0:19:49.920 Laverne Cox. I'm an actress, producer, fashionista, and host of 0:19:50.040 --> 0:19:52.920 The Laverne Cox Show. You may remember my award winning 0:19:52.960 --> 0:19:57.200 first season. I've been pretty busy. There's always time to 0:19:57.240 --> 0:20:00.560 touch incredible guests about important things. Keep like me have 0:20:00.680 --> 0:20:03.360 been screaming for years. We've got to watch the Supreme Court. 0:20:03.440 --> 0:20:05.880 What they're doing is wrong, what they're doing is evil. 0:20:05.920 --> 0:20:08.840 They will take things away. And I can only hope 0:20:08.880 --> 0:20:11.600 that Dobbs, is that like Pearl Harbor, moment gro You 0:20:11.720 --> 0:20:14.120 and I both know what it took to just get 0:20:14.200 --> 0:20:16.360 through the day in New York City and get home 0:20:16.440 --> 0:20:19.360 in one piece. And so the fact that we're here 0:20:19.520 --> 0:20:22.159 and what you've achieved and what I've achieved, you know, 0:20:22.600 --> 0:20:26.680 that's momentous. It's not just sitting around complaining about some bills. 0:20:26.800 --> 0:20:29.280 The only reason that you might think, as Chase said, 0:20:29.320 --> 0:20:32.879 that we're always miserable is because people are constantly attacking us, 0:20:32.920 --> 0:20:35.640 and we're constantly noticing it. Listen to The Verne Cox 0:20:35.720 --> 0:20:39.560 Show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you 0:20:39.680 --> 0:20:45.719 get your podcast. Be sure to subscribe and share. Hi. 0:20:46.359 --> 0:20:48.760 I'm Delia Wild and I want to invite you to 0:20:48.840 --> 0:20:52.680 listen to my newest podcast, a sense that the afters 0:20:52.720 --> 0:20:56.880 to make up appy. It's called The Oh My God 0:20:57.000 --> 0:21:00.639 Particle Show or OMGPS for short. Are you like me? 0:21:00.800 --> 0:21:04.000 Always wondering about the universally? What the universe is made of? 0:21:04.600 --> 0:21:07.680 What is in the atmospheres of alien panics? And you know, 0:21:07.760 --> 0:21:10.200 how are we even here to even ask those questions? 0:21:10.400 --> 0:21:14.560 So road trip, I want to get some answers directly 0:21:14.640 --> 0:21:18.600 from researchers at the Large Hadron Collider. We're colliding particles 0:21:18.640 --> 0:21:22.080 with energies that naturally existed in the universe, was about 0:21:22.359 --> 0:21:25.320 a trillions of the second Old. I found scientists from 0:21:25.359 --> 0:21:29.400 all over the world. Everybody is working together to get 0:21:29.480 --> 0:21:33.919 their experiment working. I've got to doctor brilliant astrophysicist who 0:21:34.040 --> 0:21:38.359 collaborated with Brian May, the guitarist from Queen. Listen to 0:21:38.480 --> 0:21:40.880 The Oh My God Particle Show on the I heard 0:21:40.960 --> 0:21:44.640 radio app Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 0:21:51.040 --> 0:21:54.320 At this point, testimony moves to the inside of the home. 0:21:55.640 --> 0:21:58.720 In the galley, members of the Rodent, Gillie and Manly 0:21:58.800 --> 0:22:05.520 families prepare themselves elves for another day of horrific photos. Geneva, 0:22:05.720 --> 0:22:10.000 Christina's mother sits stoically in the courtroom. Her daughter hands 0:22:10.040 --> 0:22:15.239 her a tissue, even though she isn't crying yet. Now, 0:22:15.320 --> 0:22:18.600 let's talk about blood or biological evidence. At this scene, 0:22:19.480 --> 0:22:21.600 they start with the pools of blood and an around 0:22:21.640 --> 0:22:24.120 a recliner in the living room inside the front door. 0:22:24.840 --> 0:22:27.479 Just from what we saw, it's obvious that you can 0:22:27.560 --> 0:22:30.960 see what you could consider to be origins or a 0:22:31.119 --> 0:22:34.440 place that a person was in when the blood lighting 0:22:34.440 --> 0:22:39.280 event occurred. Did you take some swabs of the blood 0:22:39.320 --> 0:22:43.160 in front of that chair, Yes, sir, I did. Handshaw 0:22:43.280 --> 0:22:46.920 meticulously documented shoeprints in the dried blood in and around 0:22:46.960 --> 0:22:50.760 the area as well. Is it more likely for a 0:22:51.000 --> 0:22:56.040 shoeprint to be tracked or picked up in blood when 0:22:56.119 --> 0:22:59.080 that blood is wet or fresh, as opposed to dry 0:22:59.160 --> 0:23:02.840 a pool. Absolutely, yes, you said when you very first 0:23:02.880 --> 0:23:05.639 observed these footprints, they were already drying the blood. Is 0:23:05.680 --> 0:23:10.520 that correct? Yes, they were, So you talk about preserving 0:23:10.560 --> 0:23:14.159 it documented, how do you go through actually photographing it 0:23:14.320 --> 0:23:17.960 and then ultimately collecting any shoeprints in this scene, Yes, 0:23:18.080 --> 0:23:20.880 they we're all photographed and documented as they were, as 0:23:20.960 --> 0:23:23.840 they were when they were filmed. And when you talk 0:23:23.880 --> 0:23:27.520 about detail, what's standing out to you where you're like, oh, 0:23:27.920 --> 0:23:30.359 they may be able to do something for this. What's 0:23:30.400 --> 0:23:33.879 actually standing out to me at that particular time was 0:23:33.960 --> 0:23:38.520 the fact that can I stand again, please, in this 0:23:38.800 --> 0:23:41.879 area of the shoe, I'm not seeing any kind of 0:23:41.960 --> 0:23:46.960 wear pattern at all. That meant something to me. The 0:23:47.040 --> 0:23:49.639 shupernt evidence could not be shown to anyone outside the 0:23:49.720 --> 0:23:52.960 courtroom because Judge Steering ordered media not to show any 0:23:53.040 --> 0:23:58.560 photos that included blood. Sitting through this testimony, victims families 0:23:58.600 --> 0:24:03.080 are of course emotional. One family member looks down, not 0:24:03.240 --> 0:24:07.520 wanting to see what comes next. Here again, James Filcher 0:24:08.560 --> 0:24:11.400 don't want to shock the jury, but they also don't 0:24:11.440 --> 0:24:14.960 want to offend the family. There's been some serious tension 0:24:15.520 --> 0:24:18.800 between the media and the family and the prosecution that's 0:24:18.840 --> 0:24:20.720 borne out on some of these motions and some of 0:24:20.760 --> 0:24:23.399 these other things. That we're seeing because we think everything 0:24:23.480 --> 0:24:27.560 should be shown. I mean, blood is blood, they're bloody 0:24:27.600 --> 0:24:31.040 crime scenes. This is what happened. You gotta know how 0:24:31.080 --> 0:24:33.359 these people died. You got to see it. I mean 0:24:33.400 --> 0:24:36.400 it's part of a murder trial and there's eight victims, 0:24:37.840 --> 0:24:41.480 all shot multiple times, so it's part of the deal. 0:24:43.359 --> 0:24:49.240 In this same area of the living room, you identify 0:24:49.320 --> 0:24:52.200 that as being on the floor. Did you also find 0:24:52.520 --> 0:24:55.480 what appeared to be blood's flatter on the wall? Yes, 0:24:55.560 --> 0:24:58.919 we did. Is there anything that sticks out the end 0:24:59.040 --> 0:25:01.480 with respect any personality of that blood or even that 0:25:02.600 --> 0:25:05.680 First of all, there's a lot of blood stains on 0:25:05.840 --> 0:25:10.680 this wall, and in my training that all of these 0:25:10.760 --> 0:25:15.240 stains from what I see are descending stains, which means 0:25:15.280 --> 0:25:20.720 they are traveling down when they struck this wall. Here again, 0:25:21.119 --> 0:25:25.840 Joseph Scott Morgan, that is an indication of a lot 0:25:25.880 --> 0:25:28.600 of anger, because you would think that anybody that was 0:25:28.680 --> 0:25:32.800 familiar enough with firearms that would show up into some 0:25:32.920 --> 0:25:36.560 con environment would also know what kind of forces being 0:25:36.600 --> 0:25:40.040 brought there. With just one shot, you should be able 0:25:40.080 --> 0:25:43.440 to recognize that you don't really need that many, But 0:25:43.600 --> 0:25:47.960 for some reason, the perpetrator found it necessary to lay 0:25:48.040 --> 0:25:51.800 into Chris Senior, specifically to make sure that he was 0:25:52.160 --> 0:25:58.879 totally completely eradicated that he would not rise again. How 0:25:58.920 --> 0:26:01.040 did you take that slab? Where'd you submitted to and 0:26:01.280 --> 0:26:04.040 was that eventually submitted to the lab for DNA testing. 0:26:04.800 --> 0:26:07.480 I believe that eventually it was submitted for DNA testing 0:26:07.800 --> 0:26:12.400 to determine actually which victim's blood. This was the swabs 0:26:12.520 --> 0:26:15.400