WEBVTT - The Impact of DC Protests on Biden’s Transition 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:03.240 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser. Every day 0:00:03.279 --> 0:00:05.200 we're bringing you the latest news from the world's of 0:00:05.200 --> 0:00:08.920 business and finance, plus technology, politics. So much going on 0:00:09.000 --> 0:00:12.160 in the world of politics, economics, and it's all harnessing 0:00:12.160 --> 0:00:14.840 the power of Business Week reporters and editors. If you 0:00:14.840 --> 0:00:18.280 can download Bloomberg Business Week on iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg 0:00:18.320 --> 0:00:20.480 dot com. If you can also listen to our radio 0:00:20.560 --> 0:00:23.400 show at two pm Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, and be 0:00:23.440 --> 0:00:26.320 sure to watch us too on YouTube by searching Bloomberg 0:00:26.360 --> 0:00:29.520 Global News. Let's talk a bit about COVID nineteen. New 0:00:29.600 --> 0:00:32.960 York City's COVID nineteen hospitalizations tim rising to their highest 0:00:33.000 --> 0:00:36.199 rates since May, US reporting a record three thousand, eight 0:00:36.240 --> 0:00:40.280 hundred forty four deaths from COVID confirmed cases globally, climbing 0:00:40.280 --> 0:00:42.760 by an all time high more than seven seventy six 0:00:43.360 --> 0:00:47.440 to more than uh you know this, COVID. The record 0:00:47.520 --> 0:00:50.680 number of deaths yesterday was absolutely overshadowed by what happened 0:00:50.680 --> 0:00:52.720 in the nation's capital. But we can't forget. We're in 0:00:52.720 --> 0:00:54.480 the middle of a pandemic right now, and it's changed 0:00:54.520 --> 0:00:56.000 the way that we work and live right I mean 0:00:56.000 --> 0:00:58.800 politics obviously front and center, but absolutely like none of 0:00:58.800 --> 0:01:00.720 the none of this gets back to normal until we 0:01:00.760 --> 0:01:03.960 get the health pandemic under control. Let's see what our 0:01:03.960 --> 0:01:06.040 next guest has to say about all of this. Dr 0:01:06.120 --> 0:01:09.080 Chris Bier is Professor of Public Health and Human Rights 0:01:09.280 --> 0:01:12.520 the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, Senior scientifically 0:01:12.520 --> 0:01:15.600 aison at the COVID Vaccine Prevention Network and the Bloomberg 0:01:15.680 --> 0:01:18.319 School of Public Health. Of course supported by Michael R. Bloomberg, 0:01:18.360 --> 0:01:21.560 founder of Bloomberg LP and Bloomberg Philanthropies. Dr Bira on 0:01:21.640 --> 0:01:24.440 the phone from Baltimore. Dr Bira, nice to have you 0:01:24.520 --> 0:01:27.800 here with us. Uh. Yeah, it was easy for the 0:01:27.880 --> 0:01:32.040 virus to get overshadowed yesterday because of all the political news. 0:01:32.120 --> 0:01:35.520 But this is not good. We are at another surge 0:01:36.000 --> 0:01:38.080 uh and it continues to be that way. Do you 0:01:38.120 --> 0:01:40.680 think we are getting near the worst or that's in 0:01:40.720 --> 0:01:44.360 the weeks to come. Well, Carl, I'm good to be 0:01:44.400 --> 0:01:47.360 with you again to say I think we're still seeing 0:01:47.520 --> 0:01:52.200 rising cases and of course, as you noted yesterday, tumultuous 0:01:52.280 --> 0:01:54.760 day for our country, but also a record for COVID 0:01:54.800 --> 0:01:59.280 deaths in the country. UM and we are expecting still 0:01:59.320 --> 0:02:03.640 as as we have predicted, the post holiday season surge 0:02:03.760 --> 0:02:08.480 to continue. We're in this very, very challenging moment where 0:02:08.520 --> 0:02:10.800 we do have a way forward, and that of course 0:02:11.040 --> 0:02:15.000 is the COVID vaccines that have emergency use authorization now. 0:02:15.960 --> 0:02:18.800 But we're not going to be able to immunize enough 0:02:18.840 --> 0:02:22.160 people to start to really blunt this curve, and the 0:02:22.200 --> 0:02:27.320 next few weeks and probably well into February are going 0:02:27.320 --> 0:02:30.040 to be enormously challenging. You say we're not going to 0:02:30.040 --> 0:02:32.000 be able to you say, your doctor, we're not gonna 0:02:32.000 --> 0:02:34.800 be able to immunize enough people. Do you mean in 0:02:34.840 --> 0:02:39.280 the next few weeks do you mean this year? I 0:02:39.320 --> 0:02:42.560 mean to blunt this current enormous way. So how will 0:02:42.560 --> 0:02:46.440 we see this wave go down? Well, first of all, 0:02:46.480 --> 0:02:49.240 I think we have to stick to the basics, right, Um, 0:02:49.280 --> 0:02:53.240 we have to really continue with mass wearing, with social distancing, 0:02:53.320 --> 0:02:56.560 with handwashing. As hard as it is to stay vigilant, 0:02:56.880 --> 0:03:00.000 people are going to have to try and do that. Uh. 0:03:00.080 --> 0:03:04.760 We do need to ramp up both manufacture and distribution 0:03:05.040 --> 0:03:07.959 of the two approved vaccines we have, and of course 0:03:08.040 --> 0:03:11.000 we have more vaccines in the pipeline. But as I'm sure. 0:03:11.040 --> 0:03:14.680 You know, we we've really had a slow start to 0:03:14.800 --> 0:03:18.639 the immunization programs and a number of the states really 0:03:18.639 --> 0:03:21.840 faced challenges. Yeah, the bottleneck is not in the manufacturing 0:03:21.840 --> 0:03:23.880 of these right now. The bottleneck is in the distribution. 0:03:23.880 --> 0:03:27.120 We have a Bloomberg vaccine tracker, and it shows that 0:03:27.560 --> 0:03:30.240 a very small portion, relatively number of vaccines that have 0:03:30.280 --> 0:03:32.680 been distributed have actually been shot into the arms of people. 0:03:33.840 --> 0:03:36.800 That's right too, That's absolutely right, and it's it's it's 0:03:36.800 --> 0:03:40.920 an enormous tragedy really, So Dr Byro. You know, this 0:03:41.000 --> 0:03:42.720 is interesting because we've talked about this a lot at 0:03:42.720 --> 0:03:45.520 home to about you know, we saw this with the 0:03:45.560 --> 0:03:48.400 November election. We had sports teams, you know, step up 0:03:48.440 --> 0:03:50.720 and say, you know what, use our stadiums us so 0:03:50.760 --> 0:03:52.960 that we can bring people in, get the vote out. 0:03:53.080 --> 0:03:57.360 How you know, more polling places. I'm hearing conversations about 0:03:57.400 --> 0:04:00.240 that are already actions about that of taking some of 0:04:00.280 --> 0:04:03.240 these giant places and setting them up as vaccine sites. 0:04:03.680 --> 0:04:05.360 Is that what we need to kind of really get 0:04:05.360 --> 0:04:07.240 it out into the system. And at the same time 0:04:07.720 --> 0:04:09.640 that makes me a little nervous about large groups of 0:04:09.680 --> 0:04:12.080 people that might have COVID going out there for the 0:04:12.120 --> 0:04:14.160 vaccine and just got about fifty seconds and then we'll 0:04:14.200 --> 0:04:17.039 come back and talk some more. Oh no, actually, I'm sorry, 0:04:17.640 --> 0:04:21.440 we can keep going my bat Okay, Well, we really 0:04:21.440 --> 0:04:25.480 need a coordinated effort UM. And of course, we we 0:04:25.600 --> 0:04:30.120 have an allocation strategy around healthcare workers around the elderly, 0:04:30.200 --> 0:04:36.400 in in UH congregate housing facilities, the staff of those facilities. UM. 0:04:36.400 --> 0:04:40.160 But what we've seen, unfortunately, is that the vaccines are 0:04:40.240 --> 0:04:43.320 moving to the states and out to places where people 0:04:43.320 --> 0:04:47.800 can be immunized too slowly to unevenly. We've we've seen, 0:04:47.880 --> 0:04:52.559 unfortunately the potential for vaccines to expire without being used. 0:04:52.720 --> 0:04:55.320 That's a great loss. UH. And of course we have 0:04:55.400 --> 0:04:59.360 to remember that with these two Messenger RNA vaccines MADERNA 0:04:59.440 --> 0:05:03.359 and five or uh fiser in particular, has very challenging 0:05:03.440 --> 0:05:07.960 distribution UH features because it has to be kept super cold. 0:05:08.040 --> 0:05:11.160 The low minus eight the MODERNA vaccine is a little 0:05:11.200 --> 0:05:14.520 easier to use, but they're both challenging to use and 0:05:14.680 --> 0:05:20.240 they really do require very careful management UM and UH. 0:05:20.680 --> 0:05:22.960 And of course you know, what we have is not 0:05:23.120 --> 0:05:27.400 a national strategy, but fifty different states strategies, and many 0:05:27.440 --> 0:05:29.359 of the governors are going in their own way. You 0:05:29.400 --> 0:05:33.680 saw that Florida may have the decision not to prioritize 0:05:33.680 --> 0:05:36.920 healthcare workers and instead go with the elderly, but without 0:05:36.960 --> 0:05:41.040 preparing so long lines and people waiting overnight. That's not 0:05:41.360 --> 0:05:44.560 a national strategy. So my gut says, nothing's going to 0:05:44.640 --> 0:05:46.680 change until we have a new administration. What are your 0:05:46.680 --> 0:05:49.839 hopes that from day one Joe Biden and team do 0:05:50.320 --> 0:05:53.520 in terms of getting this out to people. Well, the 0:05:53.560 --> 0:05:58.080 incoming administration, Biden Harris does have a national strategy on COVID. 0:05:58.120 --> 0:06:00.960 It's been up on their website. They have articulated that 0:06:01.120 --> 0:06:04.919 this is the principal priority. They're putting together a great team. 0:06:05.000 --> 0:06:07.640 Dr Faucci, of course, is going to stay on as 0:06:07.640 --> 0:06:12.400 a senior scientific advisor. The CDC director who's proposed for 0:06:12.440 --> 0:06:16.320 Shell Wallinsky is an outstanding leader. Um So, I think 0:06:16.360 --> 0:06:19.760 we're we're very optimistic that this is an administration that's 0:06:19.760 --> 0:06:22.320 going to let the science lead and that is going 0:06:22.360 --> 0:06:25.839 to try and have a national strategy. But they're inheriting 0:06:25.960 --> 0:06:29.840 a rollout that's already underway and problematic, and I think 0:06:29.880 --> 0:06:33.839 it's gonna be really challenging to streamline this to make 0:06:33.839 --> 0:06:37.320 it coherent. Uh, and and to get it working. The 0:06:37.360 --> 0:06:40.400 President elect has committed to a hundred million people being 0:06:40.520 --> 0:06:43.680 vaccinated in the first hundred days, So that's not a 0:06:43.720 --> 0:06:48.239 hundred millions, that's a hundred million immunizations, about fifty million 0:06:48.360 --> 0:06:54.440 people with these two dose vaccines. Well, it was looking 0:06:54.480 --> 0:06:58.600 realistic when he made a campaign promise. With the rollout 0:06:58.680 --> 0:07:01.360 right now, I think it's going to be enormously challenge. 0:07:01.720 --> 0:07:03.719 When when do you feel like things start to get normal, 0:07:03.960 --> 0:07:05.359 When do we start to be able to kind of 0:07:05.360 --> 0:07:09.240 reopen life as we know it and love it. We 0:07:09.320 --> 0:07:13.400 will have about fifty million vaccines available, so enough for 0:07:14.080 --> 0:07:17.640 million people by the end of this month. February, March, 0:07:17.720 --> 0:07:20.920 and April are likely to still be periods where we 0:07:21.000 --> 0:07:24.280 have more people who want to be immunized than we 0:07:24.320 --> 0:07:28.280 have vaccines. What we're thinking is that by June or 0:07:28.360 --> 0:07:33.040 July one we will have enough vaccine for every American 0:07:33.080 --> 0:07:35.880 who wants one. Uh, and that that is going to 0:07:36.000 --> 0:07:38.880 mean that really by the end of the second quarter 0:07:38.920 --> 0:07:42.840 of one we should really be seeing a change in 0:07:42.920 --> 0:07:47.240 life getting back to normal. We have trials planned for 0:07:47.400 --> 0:07:51.040 the pediatric vaccines. Right now, we only have one that's 0:07:51.120 --> 0:07:54.880 the the fisor vaccine that can go down to age sixteen. 0:07:55.360 --> 0:07:57.760 But we also really need to do that work and 0:07:57.840 --> 0:08:00.880 be sure that we have vaccines for children, an infants, 0:08:00.920 --> 0:08:04.040 for pregnant women, the lactating women. So we still have 0:08:04.120 --> 0:08:07.960 some work to do, but but the fall of one 0:08:08.040 --> 0:08:10.800 should look a lot different than the spring dr buyer. 0:08:10.920 --> 0:08:14.840 One unfortunate element that we've seen with the vaccine rollout 0:08:14.840 --> 0:08:18.680 has been skepticism of the American population. Not everybody, but 0:08:19.080 --> 0:08:21.360 people who say, including healthcare workers, that they don't want 0:08:21.360 --> 0:08:24.920 this vaccine. Have you received a vaccine yet? I have 0:08:25.080 --> 0:08:28.680 not because I am a researcher and I don't do 0:08:28.760 --> 0:08:33.120 direct patient care at Hopkins. We're we're not prioritized. Um, 0:08:33.880 --> 0:08:37.439 I'm I'm hopeful that that I'll be in one of 0:08:37.480 --> 0:08:40.719 the next groups. Uh, and I'm expecting to get get 0:08:40.760 --> 0:08:43.200 a vaccine probably in February. How do we fix the 0:08:43.200 --> 0:08:47.600 messaging here? I think one thing that's very encouraging. You 0:08:47.640 --> 0:08:50.599 may have seen there was a recent Kaiser Family Foundation 0:08:50.760 --> 0:08:54.880 poll that showed that vaccine acceptability, at least in that 0:08:54.960 --> 0:08:59.080 poll was up around that's better than it's been, so 0:08:59.120 --> 0:09:02.440 we're going in the right direction. I think it's very 0:09:02.480 --> 0:09:07.240 important for healthcare workers or political leaders like Biden Harris, 0:09:07.320 --> 0:09:11.400 who both have been publicly immunized, to step up and 0:09:11.480 --> 0:09:14.440 model the behavior that we want to see. We also, 0:09:14.600 --> 0:09:17.880 I'm working in the COVID Vaccine Prevention Network. We've had 0:09:17.880 --> 0:09:20.720 a big faith based initiative to try and address these 0:09:20.760 --> 0:09:25.960 issues for African Americans in particular. That community unfortunately seems 0:09:26.000 --> 0:09:29.040 to have some of the highest rates of vaccine hesitancy 0:09:29.120 --> 0:09:33.040 and skepticism. UH and UH. And we're working hard with, 0:09:33.200 --> 0:09:37.160 for example, African American physicians and networks to try and 0:09:37.280 --> 0:09:42.520 improve UH people's positive sense of the benefits of these vaccines. 0:09:42.559 --> 0:09:47.680 They have very high efficacy nine and UH, they're very 0:09:47.720 --> 0:09:50.080 safe as far as we can see so far. We're 0:09:50.160 --> 0:09:53.280 following everybody in the trials who's been in these vaccine 0:09:53.280 --> 0:09:56.240 trials for up to two years to look at longer 0:09:56.360 --> 0:10:00.600 term safety. But I think you know what, what we're 0:10:00.600 --> 0:10:03.520 hopeful about is that as more and more people get immunized, 0:10:04.320 --> 0:10:06.520 the folks who are saying right now, I'm not ready 0:10:07.480 --> 0:10:12.960 will will move towards getting immunized. For most Americans, it's 0:10:13.000 --> 0:10:17.240 gonna be probably May or June before they really can 0:10:17.320 --> 0:10:20.400 just decide if they want a vaccine, So so the 0:10:20.440 --> 0:10:24.840 folks who are hesitant should wait and look. But but yeah, 0:10:25.040 --> 0:10:28.760 as we're seeing you know, well, you know, it's interesting 0:10:28.760 --> 0:10:30.120 to say this, and I hate to do this in 0:10:30.120 --> 0:10:31.719 like our last couple of minutes, but there is a 0:10:31.760 --> 0:10:34.360 story on the Bloomberg. It's an opinion piece, but it 0:10:34.440 --> 0:10:36.920 asked the question who's on the hook of vaccines go wrong? 0:10:37.000 --> 0:10:40.199 And it's basically, you know, given the breakneck pace of production, 0:10:40.240 --> 0:10:42.880 there are very few answers about what manufacturers and governments 0:10:42.880 --> 0:10:45.960 are ultimately responsible for. God forbid, something should go wrong. 0:10:46.000 --> 0:10:48.760 And forgive me because I'm an optimist and I believe 0:10:48.800 --> 0:10:52.200 in the science of this vaccine. But as you said, 0:10:52.840 --> 0:10:55.720 you guys the medical community, well, we're gonna be tracking 0:10:55.720 --> 0:10:58.440 people longer term to see if there is any longer 0:10:58.559 --> 0:11:02.079 term impact because we still, to be fair, to be honest, 0:11:02.120 --> 0:11:06.160 we still don't know. Well, that's right, and we need 0:11:06.240 --> 0:11:09.280 We are accumulating safety data from the people in the 0:11:09.360 --> 0:11:12.720 trials and the people who've been immunized. Every day. We 0:11:12.840 --> 0:11:16.000 have a vaccine adverse events reporting system that the CDC 0:11:16.320 --> 0:11:21.080 is managing. Um certainly everybody in the healthcare systems who 0:11:21.120 --> 0:11:25.240 are getting immunized are being tracked through those health systems. UH, 0:11:25.280 --> 0:11:28.600 and we need to follow this very carefully. I think 0:11:28.600 --> 0:11:32.360 it's important to remember that there are always some risks 0:11:32.400 --> 0:11:37.960 associated with any medication, any vaccine, any biomedical intervention. We 0:11:38.040 --> 0:11:41.360 all know that writing is zero risk, but the flip 0:11:41.400 --> 0:11:45.440 side of that is the risk of getting COVID. Learning 0:11:45.480 --> 0:11:49.280 more and more about this disease is that that you 0:11:49.320 --> 0:11:53.440 know this, this has the potential to really kill you 0:11:53.480 --> 0:11:55.920 are alter your life. I was having that conversation actually 0:11:55.920 --> 0:11:58.520 with someone this morning, and as Chris Rock told Gail 0:11:58.600 --> 0:12:01.560 King on CBS's I take thailett all every day. Do 0:12:01.600 --> 0:12:02.960 I know what thailet all is it? All I know 0:12:03.040 --> 0:12:05.800 is it fixes my headache. I'm okay with taking the vaccine. 0:12:05.880 --> 0:12:08.840 Is basically what he said. Um. Dr Buyra, thank you 0:12:08.920 --> 0:12:11.959 so much, Stay safe, be well. Dr Chris Buyer, Professor 0:12:11.960 --> 0:12:15.440 of Epidemiology, Public Health, also and Human Rights at Johns 0:12:15.440 --> 0:12:18.920 Hopkins University, Bloomberg School of Public Health, of course, supported 0:12:18.920 --> 0:12:22.080 by Michael R. Bloomberg, founder Bloomberg LP. He's also the 0:12:22.120 --> 0:12:25.240 senior scientifically as on at the COVID Vaccine Prevention Network. 0:12:25.400 --> 0:12:30.439 This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser from Bloomberg Radio. Well, 0:12:30.480 --> 0:12:32.520 this wasn't the game plan, but it really had to be. 0:12:32.600 --> 0:12:35.400 I'm talking about this week's cover story by Bloomberg business Week, which, 0:12:35.440 --> 0:12:38.400 after yesterday's mob protest and storming of the US capital, 0:12:38.480 --> 0:12:41.839 the cover is about the trashing of American democracy and 0:12:41.920 --> 0:12:44.760 new low in American politics. Let's bring in more on 0:12:44.800 --> 0:12:47.440 the significance and impact of what should have been a normal, 0:12:47.559 --> 0:12:51.040 routine process of Congress signing off on a presidential election. 0:12:51.120 --> 0:12:54.120 It was anything but. Here's Bloomberg Business Week National correspondent 0:12:54.200 --> 0:12:57.040 Josh Green on the phone in Washington, d see who 0:12:57.080 --> 0:13:00.679 we talked with a bunch yesterday through all the craziness. 0:13:00.760 --> 0:13:04.000 Josh is also author of The Devil's Bargain, Steve Bannon, 0:13:04.040 --> 0:13:07.240 Donald Trump, and The Nationalist Uprising, also with US Bloomberg 0:13:07.240 --> 0:13:10.360 business Week editor Joe Webber on the remote access from Brooklyn, Joel, 0:13:10.400 --> 0:13:14.560 the cover. They say a picture is worth a thousand words. 0:13:14.800 --> 0:13:16.560 I feel like the picture you guys have in the 0:13:16.559 --> 0:13:19.439 cover is worth a lot more than that. Yeah. And 0:13:19.440 --> 0:13:21.720 and just to give you a sense of kind of 0:13:21.760 --> 0:13:24.600 what what what we go through a magazine and you know, Wednesday, 0:13:24.600 --> 0:13:27.079 we we tend to we shipp the covers shipped a 0:13:27.120 --> 0:13:29.400 lot of the magazine on Wednesday, we were ready to 0:13:29.400 --> 0:13:32.760 go with a completely different cover, and I actually released 0:13:32.800 --> 0:13:35.360 that file and then immediately caught it back when we 0:13:35.400 --> 0:13:37.960 witnessed what was happening in d C. Because it's like, 0:13:38.240 --> 0:13:40.920 how could you not talk about what was happening in 0:13:41.000 --> 0:13:43.640 the nation's capital. And um, Josh actually had nothing to 0:13:43.679 --> 0:13:45.800 do with what we ended up doing in the issue 0:13:45.800 --> 0:13:48.880 because everything unfolded so quickly and we were on such 0:13:48.920 --> 0:13:52.480 a tight um timeline, and you know, the trashing of 0:13:52.480 --> 0:13:56.040 American democracy seemed exactly like the right line to use. 0:13:57.000 --> 0:13:59.440 Main cover line was was New Low and and it 0:13:59.480 --> 0:14:03.120 really felt that way and still feels that way way today. 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:05.760 So I think we made the right call. And who 0:14:05.800 --> 0:14:08.440 knows that the world well see that other great idea. 0:14:08.840 --> 0:14:11.360 Hopefully they will. But the reason I wanted to bring 0:14:11.440 --> 0:14:13.600 Josh on the program today is just because I think, 0:14:14.000 --> 0:14:17.240 you know, because of Devil's Bargain and he's sort of 0:14:17.360 --> 0:14:20.600 his knowledge of of Bannon gave us a really early 0:14:20.640 --> 0:14:24.600 sense of how how real the Trump effect was going 0:14:24.680 --> 0:14:27.360 to be, and so and did the cover story had 0:14:27.360 --> 0:14:29.040 a couple of months ago, on the coming out of 0:14:29.080 --> 0:14:32.160 the election of Trump is um is here to stay. 0:14:32.200 --> 0:14:34.520 So so Josh, like, help me understand. Do you think 0:14:34.520 --> 0:14:37.720 Trump is um is still here to stay? Yeah, I 0:14:38.000 --> 0:14:41.200 certainly think it is. And I think yesterday was a 0:14:41.280 --> 0:14:45.040 kind of an ugly reminder of its enduring power with 0:14:45.200 --> 0:14:52.440 a not insubstantial group of hard right wing Republican voters. Um. 0:14:52.480 --> 0:14:56.119 You know, as as we see things here in Washington, 0:14:56.240 --> 0:15:00.360 you know, a lot of times elected officials, Republican centers 0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:03.880 and House members go along with this this sort of 0:15:03.920 --> 0:15:06.800 thing and and indulged Trump out of a sense of 0:15:07.120 --> 0:15:11.720 careerism and opportunity and uh, you know, a desire to 0:15:11.760 --> 0:15:14.960 advance within the party and a fear of their own 0:15:15.040 --> 0:15:18.880 Republican voters. And I think yesterday illustrated the danger in 0:15:18.960 --> 0:15:22.840 indulging this sort of thing and indulging Trump. Um. But 0:15:23.280 --> 0:15:26.800 you know, to me, one of the most horrifying things 0:15:27.040 --> 0:15:29.960 we witnessed was that after this violence that left four 0:15:30.040 --> 0:15:35.280 people dead, that the capital overrun for the first time 0:15:35.320 --> 0:15:43.320 since eighteen twelve, was that a major went ahead anyway 0:15:43.360 --> 0:15:47.120 afterwards once Congress reconneaned in the middle of the night, uh, 0:15:47.200 --> 0:15:49.520 and objected to Joe Biden's victories. So I think that 0:15:49.520 --> 0:15:56.520 that shows you that even after this kind of mayhem, violence, death, terrorism, UM, 0:15:56.560 --> 0:15:59.280 that Republicans are a certain segment of them are still 0:15:59.280 --> 0:16:01.680 going to march in line behind Donald Trump and whatever 0:16:01.720 --> 0:16:03.920 it is that he wants to do. And I think 0:16:03.920 --> 0:16:06.040 that's a good indication that there isn't going to be 0:16:06.080 --> 0:16:09.800 a clean break on January and that that the country 0:16:09.840 --> 0:16:12.320 isn't going to be able to move beyond Trump, certainly 0:16:12.360 --> 0:16:15.800 not the Republican Party. Josh we We, how do you 0:16:15.880 --> 0:16:19.840 joining us yesterday live on the radio as this was 0:16:19.920 --> 0:16:23.160 taking place on the in the Capitol, UM, for your 0:16:23.200 --> 0:16:26.400 immediate reaction, for your immediate analysis. But I'm wondering with 0:16:26.640 --> 0:16:28.680 you know, almost twenty four hours at this point, to 0:16:28.720 --> 0:16:33.080 sort of think back on what happened yesterday. UM, what's 0:16:33.120 --> 0:16:36.880 the damage that's been done? No, I don't think we 0:16:36.920 --> 0:16:40.160 can begin to really know the answer to that question. 0:16:40.320 --> 0:16:43.400 I mean, you know, part of the damage I think 0:16:43.680 --> 0:16:47.720 is is psychological and knowing that our country is susceptible 0:16:47.760 --> 0:16:51.360 of this sort of thing. I think part of the damage, um, 0:16:51.720 --> 0:16:54.680 comes to the reputation reputation of the United States in 0:16:54.680 --> 0:16:58.880 the world. I mean, it's certainly tarnished and diminished our 0:16:59.000 --> 0:17:02.280 standing even further. Uh, and the and the eyes of 0:17:02.400 --> 0:17:05.720 allies and foreign countries. I mean, one of the one 0:17:05.720 --> 0:17:10.000 of the things you saw yesterday was the leaders of 0:17:10.200 --> 0:17:15.000 autocratic or dictorial countries essentially trolling the United States by 0:17:15.040 --> 0:17:19.640 releasing official statements, you know, expressing concern over the violence, death, 0:17:19.680 --> 0:17:23.800 and mayhem in the US capital. Uh. It's it's just 0:17:23.880 --> 0:17:27.840 remarkable and almost unthinkable that this could have happened here. 0:17:28.400 --> 0:17:30.200 And then we still have two weeks to go, and 0:17:30.200 --> 0:17:32.080 and you know who knows. I mean, every day things 0:17:32.080 --> 0:17:34.520 seem to get worse in Washington. You don't think it 0:17:34.560 --> 0:17:36.879 can get worse, and then you turn on the news 0:17:37.000 --> 0:17:41.679 and see people overrunning the capitol, uh, fighting being killed. Um. 0:17:41.960 --> 0:17:44.760 So you know, until Trump is out of office on 0:17:44.840 --> 0:17:48.440 January twenty, which I do think will happen eventually. UM. 0:17:48.480 --> 0:17:51.679 You know, we really don't have the kind of distances 0:17:51.720 --> 0:17:55.560 perspective that we need you to answer that question. How 0:17:55.600 --> 0:18:00.119 significant is it that social media companies have intervened, at 0:18:00.160 --> 0:18:03.040 least some of them, you know, in all series. And 0:18:03.119 --> 0:18:04.760 I think that is a really big deal. I mean, 0:18:04.800 --> 0:18:07.919 I think it's commendable what Twitter did freezing Donald Trump's 0:18:07.960 --> 0:18:11.560 account and Facebook essentially kicking him off the platform until 0:18:11.600 --> 0:18:15.760 he leaves office. Twitter has been Donald Trump's main channel 0:18:15.800 --> 0:18:18.960 of communication, not just with his own followers, but with 0:18:19.200 --> 0:18:22.920 the media, with the culture, with cable news. When he tweets, 0:18:22.960 --> 0:18:26.520 people react, reporters react, We have to react. He can 0:18:26.560 --> 0:18:30.080 attack people, he can attack other Republicans. Uh, you know, 0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:35.000 a lot of official Washington was really kind of Marionette 0:18:35.040 --> 0:18:38.520 strings from Trump's Twitter account, from you know, the day 0:18:38.560 --> 0:18:42.240 he started running for office, certainly was throughout his presidency, 0:18:42.480 --> 0:18:46.160 and by taking away that platform from him, I mean, 0:18:46.320 --> 0:18:48.480 it really does feel like things have quieted down in 0:18:48.480 --> 0:18:50.840 the last twelve d eighteen hours. As Trump has been 0:18:50.840 --> 0:18:53.280 off Twitter, you can only imagine what he would be 0:18:53.280 --> 0:18:57.439 tweeting and doing and commanding. As you know, Mike Pence 0:18:57.560 --> 0:19:01.120 turned his back on him as Congress made official Joe 0:19:01.119 --> 0:19:04.119 Biden's victory in the presidential race. In the fact that 0:19:04.160 --> 0:19:08.000 he wasn't able to kind of fulminate and encourage more 0:19:08.040 --> 0:19:10.480 of this violence, I think is a good thing, and 0:19:10.520 --> 0:19:12.840 I think Twitter ought to ought to kick him off 0:19:12.880 --> 0:19:15.520 for good. Yeah, it's interesting. We talked to um Josh 0:19:15.600 --> 0:19:18.000 that Twitch, which is a streaming service owned by Amazon. 0:19:18.040 --> 0:19:21.440 They've suspended Trump's channel as well, And I guess they're 0:19:21.440 --> 0:19:25.000 going to do that until January and then reassess that's 0:19:25.040 --> 0:19:28.800 their word. Uh, the situation. Hey, Josh, just quickly, just 0:19:28.800 --> 0:19:31.760 got about thirty seconds. What do you think will ultimately 0:19:31.840 --> 0:19:34.720 maybe be the role of Donald Trump after he leaves 0:19:34.720 --> 0:19:38.520 the White House? Is he kingmaker? Is he media star? 0:19:38.960 --> 0:19:42.760 Does he go away to Florida and be quiet? Just quickly, Well, 0:19:42.800 --> 0:19:44.920 I'm sure he won't be quiet, but I have to 0:19:44.960 --> 0:19:47.280 say I do have some doubts about his ability to 0:19:47.320 --> 0:19:50.200 be kingmaker after what we've seen. He will still be 0:19:50.240 --> 0:19:52.359 an important voice in the party. A lot of people 0:19:53.160 --> 0:19:56.119 like Senator Josh Holly will be trying very hard to 0:19:56.160 --> 0:19:58.960 win his approval and the approval of supporters. But I 0:19:58.960 --> 0:20:01.280 don't think we can answer that. Get to know how 0:20:01.359 --> 0:20:03.239 things shake out and how much works to get Oh, 0:20:03.280 --> 0:20:05.120 it's good to check in with you. Thank you so much, 0:20:05.240 --> 0:20:08.400 Josh Green, National correspondent, Bloomberg Business Week, Joe Weber, Editor 0:20:08.480 --> 0:20:11.960 Bloomberg Business Week. Check out that cover story. It's pictures 0:20:11.960 --> 0:20:15.720 and it's a timeline about the story of really our 0:20:16.200 --> 0:20:20.439 history here and our questions of democracy. You're listening to 0:20:20.520 --> 0:20:24.480 Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes 0:20:24.600 --> 0:20:28.680 Tim Stinovik on Bloomberg Radio. Yes, indeed, the Thursday edition 0:20:28.680 --> 0:20:30.920 of Bloomberg Business Week brought to you by se I 0:20:30.920 --> 0:20:35.520 imagine your asset managements firms operational infrastructure as a competitive advantage. 0:20:35.560 --> 0:20:37.639 Let see I show you how at se sc dot 0:20:37.720 --> 0:20:40.920 com slash I m s. This is Bloomberg. Do those 0:20:40.960 --> 0:20:45.560 who rereaked havoc in our capital today? You did not win. 0:20:45.760 --> 0:20:51.240 This mob was in good part President Trump's doing, incited 0:20:51.240 --> 0:20:55.520 by his words, his lies. What happened here today was 0:20:55.560 --> 0:20:59.560 an insurrection incited by the President of the United States. 0:21:00.119 --> 0:21:04.520 Will be part of a history that chose the world 0:21:05.280 --> 0:21:12.320 what America is made off. We will not bell the lawlessness. Colleagues, 0:21:12.840 --> 0:21:16.679 It's time to move on. Well, you're hearing there the 0:21:16.840 --> 0:21:20.080 voices of Vice President Mike Penn, Senator Chuck Schumer, Senator 0:21:20.119 --> 0:21:23.480 Mitt Romney, Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, and how Speaker Nancy Pelosi, 0:21:23.520 --> 0:21:26.439 those lawmakers reacting last night to the chaos in Washington, 0:21:26.560 --> 0:21:30.840 d C. After Congress resumed deliberating the electoral College certifications 0:21:31.000 --> 0:21:34.199 on Wednesday evening. Right, it is done, but uh and 0:21:34.240 --> 0:21:37.440 this is ending two months of failed challenges by h 0:21:37.680 --> 0:21:40.199 Joe Biden's predecessor. We're talking about Donald Trump, and then, 0:21:40.240 --> 0:21:42.960 of course we know ultimately exploded into violence at the U. 0:21:43.000 --> 0:21:46.760 S Capitol yesterday. So we watched it all unfold in 0:21:46.800 --> 0:21:49.400 real time, and I'm guessing so did our next guest, 0:21:49.480 --> 0:21:51.840 Chris Leu front of the show, back with us. His 0:21:52.000 --> 0:21:55.240 former Deputy Secretary of Labor under the Obama administration, worked 0:21:55.280 --> 0:21:57.600 up on Capitol Hill. He's someone who has worked in 0:21:57.640 --> 0:22:00.280 each of the branches of the US government. He's senior 0:22:00.280 --> 0:22:03.159 fellow at the University of Virginia Miller Center. Was also 0:22:03.280 --> 0:22:06.760 on Barack Obama's transition team. He was the executive director. 0:22:06.760 --> 0:22:09.040 He's on the Biden transition team, and he joins us 0:22:09.040 --> 0:22:11.960 on the phone in Charlottesville, Virginia. You've got to stop 0:22:11.960 --> 0:22:18.320 with all your accomplishments, Chris, because sorry, um. First of all, 0:22:18.560 --> 0:22:21.639 nice to have you here. Happy new Year. What a 0:22:21.720 --> 0:22:26.040 rough start to the new year. Our democracy yesterday tested 0:22:26.720 --> 0:22:29.240 really big time this week. How did you see it? 0:22:30.680 --> 0:22:32.639 You know, it's somebody who spent a dozen years on 0:22:32.720 --> 0:22:35.720 Capitol Hill, in both the Senate in the House. I mean, 0:22:35.760 --> 0:22:39.160 it was shocking, but that's even sort of an understatement. 0:22:39.160 --> 0:22:40.800 In the U. S. Capitol is one of the most 0:22:40.840 --> 0:22:45.520 secure facilities in the country. You know, it's it's protecting 0:22:45.520 --> 0:22:49.560 our highest selected leaders. It's worth deliberations happen in the 0:22:49.560 --> 0:22:52.200