Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser. Every day
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Speaker 1: Global News. Let's talk a bit about COVID nineteen. New
Speaker 1: York City's COVID nineteen hospitalizations tim rising to their highest
Speaker 1: rates since May, US reporting a record three thousand, eight
Speaker 1: hundred forty four deaths from COVID confirmed cases globally, climbing
Speaker 1: by an all time high more than seven seventy six
Speaker 1: to more than uh you know this, COVID. The record
Speaker 1: number of deaths yesterday was absolutely overshadowed by what happened
Speaker 1: in the nation's capital. But we can't forget. We're in
Speaker 1: the middle of a pandemic right now, and it's changed
Speaker 1: the way that we work and live right I mean
Speaker 1: politics obviously front and center, but absolutely like none of
Speaker 1: the none of this gets back to normal until we
Speaker 1: get the health pandemic under control. Let's see what our
Speaker 1: next guest has to say about all of this. Dr
Speaker 1: Chris Bier is Professor of Public Health and Human Rights
Speaker 1: the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, Senior scientifically
Speaker 1: aison at the COVID Vaccine Prevention Network and the Bloomberg
Speaker 1: School of Public Health. Of course supported by Michael R. Bloomberg,
Speaker 1: founder of Bloomberg LP and Bloomberg Philanthropies. Dr Bira on
Speaker 1: the phone from Baltimore. Dr Bira, nice to have you
Speaker 1: here with us. Uh. Yeah, it was easy for the
Speaker 1: virus to get overshadowed yesterday because of all the political news.
Speaker 1: But this is not good. We are at another surge
Speaker 1: uh and it continues to be that way. Do you
Speaker 1: think we are getting near the worst or that's in
Speaker 1: the weeks to come. Well, Carl, I'm good to be
Speaker 1: with you again to say I think we're still seeing
Speaker 1: rising cases and of course, as you noted yesterday, tumultuous
Speaker 1: day for our country, but also a record for COVID
Speaker 1: deaths in the country. UM and we are expecting still
Speaker 1: as as we have predicted, the post holiday season surge
Speaker 1: to continue. We're in this very, very challenging moment where
Speaker 1: we do have a way forward, and that of course
Speaker 1: is the COVID vaccines that have emergency use authorization now.
Speaker 1: But we're not going to be able to immunize enough
Speaker 1: people to start to really blunt this curve, and the
Speaker 1: next few weeks and probably well into February are going
Speaker 1: to be enormously challenging. You say we're not going to
Speaker 1: be able to you say, your doctor, we're not gonna
Speaker 1: be able to immunize enough people. Do you mean in
Speaker 1: the next few weeks do you mean this year? I
Speaker 1: mean to blunt this current enormous way. So how will
Speaker 1: we see this wave go down? Well, first of all,
Speaker 1: I think we have to stick to the basics, right, Um,
Speaker 1: we have to really continue with mass wearing, with social distancing,
Speaker 1: with handwashing. As hard as it is to stay vigilant,
Speaker 1: people are going to have to try and do that. Uh.
Speaker 1: We do need to ramp up both manufacture and distribution
Speaker 1: of the two approved vaccines we have, and of course
Speaker 1: we have more vaccines in the pipeline. But as I'm sure.
Speaker 1: You know, we we've really had a slow start to
Speaker 1: the immunization programs and a number of the states really
Speaker 1: faced challenges. Yeah, the bottleneck is not in the manufacturing
Speaker 1: of these right now. The bottleneck is in the distribution.
Speaker 1: We have a Bloomberg vaccine tracker, and it shows that
Speaker 1: a very small portion, relatively number of vaccines that have
Speaker 1: been distributed have actually been shot into the arms of people.
Speaker 1: That's right too, That's absolutely right, and it's it's it's
Speaker 1: an enormous tragedy really, So Dr Byro. You know, this
Speaker 1: is interesting because we've talked about this a lot at
Speaker 1: home to about you know, we saw this with the
Speaker 1: November election. We had sports teams, you know, step up
Speaker 1: and say, you know what, use our stadiums us so
Speaker 1: that we can bring people in, get the vote out.
Speaker 1: How you know, more polling places. I'm hearing conversations about
Speaker 1: that are already actions about that of taking some of
Speaker 1: these giant places and setting them up as vaccine sites.
Speaker 1: Is that what we need to kind of really get
Speaker 1: it out into the system. And at the same time
Speaker 1: that makes me a little nervous about large groups of
Speaker 1: people that might have COVID going out there for the
Speaker 1: vaccine and just got about fifty seconds and then we'll
Speaker 1: come back and talk some more. Oh no, actually, I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: we can keep going my bat Okay, Well, we really
Speaker 1: need a coordinated effort UM. And of course, we we
Speaker 1: have an allocation strategy around healthcare workers around the elderly,
Speaker 1: in in UH congregate housing facilities, the staff of those facilities. UM.
Speaker 1: But what we've seen, unfortunately, is that the vaccines are
Speaker 1: moving to the states and out to places where people
Speaker 1: can be immunized too slowly to unevenly. We've we've seen,
Speaker 1: unfortunately the potential for vaccines to expire without being used.
Speaker 1: That's a great loss. UH. And of course we have
Speaker 1: to remember that with these two Messenger RNA vaccines MADERNA
Speaker 1: and five or uh fiser in particular, has very challenging
Speaker 1: distribution UH features because it has to be kept super cold.
Speaker 1: The low minus eight the MODERNA vaccine is a little
Speaker 1: easier to use, but they're both challenging to use and
Speaker 1: they really do require very careful management UM and UH.
Speaker 1: And of course you know, what we have is not
Speaker 1: a national strategy, but fifty different states strategies, and many
Speaker 1: of the governors are going in their own way. You
Speaker 1: saw that Florida may have the decision not to prioritize
Speaker 1: healthcare workers and instead go with the elderly, but without
Speaker 1: preparing so long lines and people waiting overnight. That's not
Speaker 1: a national strategy. So my gut says, nothing's going to
Speaker 1: change until we have a new administration. What are your
Speaker 1: hopes that from day one Joe Biden and team do
Speaker 1: in terms of getting this out to people. Well, the
Speaker 1: incoming administration, Biden Harris does have a national strategy on COVID.
Speaker 1: It's been up on their website. They have articulated that
Speaker 1: this is the principal priority. They're putting together a great team.
Speaker 1: Dr Faucci, of course, is going to stay on as
Speaker 1: a senior scientific advisor. The CDC director who's proposed for
Speaker 1: Shell Wallinsky is an outstanding leader. Um So, I think
Speaker 1: we're we're very optimistic that this is an administration that's
Speaker 1: going to let the science lead and that is going
Speaker 1: to try and have a national strategy. But they're inheriting
Speaker 1: a rollout that's already underway and problematic, and I think
Speaker 1: it's gonna be really challenging to streamline this to make
Speaker 1: it coherent. Uh, and and to get it working. The
Speaker 1: President elect has committed to a hundred million people being
Speaker 1: vaccinated in the first hundred days, So that's not a
Speaker 1: hundred millions, that's a hundred million immunizations, about fifty million
Speaker 1: people with these two dose vaccines. Well, it was looking
Speaker 1: realistic when he made a campaign promise. With the rollout
Speaker 1: right now, I think it's going to be enormously challenge.
Speaker 1: When when do you feel like things start to get normal,
Speaker 1: When do we start to be able to kind of
Speaker 1: reopen life as we know it and love it. We
Speaker 1: will have about fifty million vaccines available, so enough for
Speaker 1: million people by the end of this month. February, March,
Speaker 1: and April are likely to still be periods where we
Speaker 1: have more people who want to be immunized than we
Speaker 1: have vaccines. What we're thinking is that by June or
Speaker 1: July one we will have enough vaccine for every American
Speaker 1: who wants one. Uh, and that that is going to
Speaker 1: mean that really by the end of the second quarter
Speaker 1: of one we should really be seeing a change in
Speaker 1: life getting back to normal. We have trials planned for
Speaker 1: the pediatric vaccines. Right now, we only have one that's
Speaker 1: the the fisor vaccine that can go down to age sixteen.
Speaker 1: But we also really need to do that work and
Speaker 1: be sure that we have vaccines for children, an infants,
Speaker 1: for pregnant women, the lactating women. So we still have
Speaker 1: some work to do, but but the fall of one
Speaker 1: should look a lot different than the spring dr buyer.
Speaker 1: One unfortunate element that we've seen with the vaccine rollout
Speaker 1: has been skepticism of the American population. Not everybody, but
Speaker 1: people who say, including healthcare workers, that they don't want
Speaker 1: this vaccine. Have you received a vaccine yet? I have
Speaker 1: not because I am a researcher and I don't do
Speaker 1: direct patient care at Hopkins. We're we're not prioritized. Um,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm hopeful that that I'll be in one of
Speaker 1: the next groups. Uh, and I'm expecting to get get
Speaker 1: a vaccine probably in February. How do we fix the
Speaker 1: messaging here? I think one thing that's very encouraging. You
Speaker 1: may have seen there was a recent Kaiser Family Foundation
Speaker 1: poll that showed that vaccine acceptability, at least in that
Speaker 1: poll was up around that's better than it's been, so
Speaker 1: we're going in the right direction. I think it's very
Speaker 1: important for healthcare workers or political leaders like Biden Harris,
Speaker 1: who both have been publicly immunized, to step up and
Speaker 1: model the behavior that we want to see. We also,
Speaker 1: I'm working in the COVID Vaccine Prevention Network. We've had
Speaker 1: a big faith based initiative to try and address these
Speaker 1: issues for African Americans in particular. That community unfortunately seems
Speaker 1: to have some of the highest rates of vaccine hesitancy
Speaker 1: and skepticism. UH and UH. And we're working hard with,
Speaker 1: for example, African American physicians and networks to try and
Speaker 1: improve UH people's positive sense of the benefits of these vaccines.
Speaker 1: They have very high efficacy nine and UH, they're very
Speaker 1: safe as far as we can see so far. We're
Speaker 1: following everybody in the trials who's been in these vaccine
Speaker 1: trials for up to two years to look at longer
Speaker 1: term safety. But I think you know what, what we're
Speaker 1: hopeful about is that as more and more people get immunized,
Speaker 1: the folks who are saying right now, I'm not ready
Speaker 1: will will move towards getting immunized. For most Americans, it's
Speaker 1: gonna be probably May or June before they really can
Speaker 1: just decide if they want a vaccine, So so the
Speaker 1: folks who are hesitant should wait and look. But but yeah,
Speaker 1: as we're seeing you know, well, you know, it's interesting
Speaker 1: to say this, and I hate to do this in
Speaker 1: like our last couple of minutes, but there is a
Speaker 1: story on the Bloomberg. It's an opinion piece, but it
Speaker 1: asked the question who's on the hook of vaccines go wrong?
Speaker 1: And it's basically, you know, given the breakneck pace of production,
Speaker 1: there are very few answers about what manufacturers and governments
Speaker 1: are ultimately responsible for. God forbid, something should go wrong.
Speaker 1: And forgive me because I'm an optimist and I believe
Speaker 1: in the science of this vaccine. But as you said,
Speaker 1: you guys the medical community, well, we're gonna be tracking
Speaker 1: people longer term to see if there is any longer
Speaker 1: term impact because we still, to be fair, to be honest,
Speaker 1: we still don't know. Well, that's right, and we need
Speaker 1: We are accumulating safety data from the people in the
Speaker 1: trials and the people who've been immunized. Every day. We
Speaker 1: have a vaccine adverse events reporting system that the CDC
Speaker 1: is managing. Um certainly everybody in the healthcare systems who
Speaker 1: are getting immunized are being tracked through those health systems. UH,
Speaker 1: and we need to follow this very carefully. I think
Speaker 1: it's important to remember that there are always some risks
Speaker 1: associated with any medication, any vaccine, any biomedical intervention. We
Speaker 1: all know that writing is zero risk, but the flip
Speaker 1: side of that is the risk of getting COVID. Learning
Speaker 1: more and more about this disease is that that you
Speaker 1: know this, this has the potential to really kill you
Speaker 1: are alter your life. I was having that conversation actually
Speaker 1: with someone this morning, and as Chris Rock told Gail
Speaker 1: King on CBS's I take thailett all every day. Do
Speaker 1: I know what thailet all is it? All I know
Speaker 1: is it fixes my headache. I'm okay with taking the vaccine.
Speaker 1: Is basically what he said. Um. Dr Buyra, thank you
Speaker 1: so much, Stay safe, be well. Dr Chris Buyer, Professor
Speaker 1: of Epidemiology, Public Health, also and Human Rights at Johns
Speaker 1: Hopkins University, Bloomberg School of Public Health, of course, supported
Speaker 1: by Michael R. Bloomberg, founder Bloomberg LP. He's also the
Speaker 1: senior scientifically as on at the COVID Vaccine Prevention Network.
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser from Bloomberg Radio. Well,
Speaker 1: this wasn't the game plan, but it really had to be.
Speaker 1: I'm talking about this week's cover story by Bloomberg business Week, which,
Speaker 1: after yesterday's mob protest and storming of the US capital,
Speaker 1: the cover is about the trashing of American democracy and
Speaker 1: new low in American politics. Let's bring in more on
Speaker 1: the significance and impact of what should have been a normal,
Speaker 1: routine process of Congress signing off on a presidential election.
Speaker 1: It was anything but. Here's Bloomberg Business Week National correspondent
Speaker 1: Josh Green on the phone in Washington, d see who
Speaker 1: we talked with a bunch yesterday through all the craziness.
Speaker 1: Josh is also author of The Devil's Bargain, Steve Bannon,
Speaker 1: Donald Trump, and The Nationalist Uprising, also with US Bloomberg
Speaker 1: business Week editor Joe Webber on the remote access from Brooklyn, Joel,
Speaker 1: the cover. They say a picture is worth a thousand words.
Speaker 1: I feel like the picture you guys have in the
Speaker 1: cover is worth a lot more than that. Yeah. And
Speaker 1: and just to give you a sense of kind of
Speaker 1: what what what we go through a magazine and you know, Wednesday,
Speaker 1: we we tend to we shipp the covers shipped a
Speaker 1: lot of the magazine on Wednesday, we were ready to
Speaker 1: go with a completely different cover, and I actually released
Speaker 1: that file and then immediately caught it back when we
Speaker 1: witnessed what was happening in d C. Because it's like,
Speaker 1: how could you not talk about what was happening in
Speaker 1: the nation's capital. And um, Josh actually had nothing to
Speaker 1: do with what we ended up doing in the issue
Speaker 1: because everything unfolded so quickly and we were on such
Speaker 1: a tight um timeline, and you know, the trashing of
Speaker 1: American democracy seemed exactly like the right line to use.
Speaker 1: Main cover line was was New Low and and it
Speaker 1: really felt that way and still feels that way way today.
Speaker 1: So I think we made the right call. And who
Speaker 1: knows that the world well see that other great idea.
Speaker 1: Hopefully they will. But the reason I wanted to bring
Speaker 1: Josh on the program today is just because I think,
Speaker 1: you know, because of Devil's Bargain and he's sort of
Speaker 1: his knowledge of of Bannon gave us a really early
Speaker 1: sense of how how real the Trump effect was going
Speaker 1: to be, and so and did the cover story had
Speaker 1: a couple of months ago, on the coming out of
Speaker 1: the election of Trump is um is here to stay.
Speaker 1: So so Josh, like, help me understand. Do you think
Speaker 1: Trump is um is still here to stay? Yeah, I
Speaker 1: certainly think it is. And I think yesterday was a
Speaker 1: kind of an ugly reminder of its enduring power with
Speaker 1: a not insubstantial group of hard right wing Republican voters. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, as as we see things here in Washington,
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of times elected officials, Republican centers
Speaker 1: and House members go along with this this sort of
Speaker 1: thing and and indulged Trump out of a sense of
Speaker 1: careerism and opportunity and uh, you know, a desire to
Speaker 1: advance within the party and a fear of their own
Speaker 1: Republican voters. And I think yesterday illustrated the danger in
Speaker 1: indulging this sort of thing and indulging Trump. Um. But
Speaker 1: you know, to me, one of the most horrifying things
Speaker 1: we witnessed was that after this violence that left four
Speaker 1: people dead, that the capital overrun for the first time
Speaker 1: since eighteen twelve, was that a major went ahead anyway
Speaker 1: afterwards once Congress reconneaned in the middle of the night, uh,
Speaker 1: and objected to Joe Biden's victories. So I think that
Speaker 1: that shows you that even after this kind of mayhem, violence, death, terrorism, UM,
Speaker 1: that Republicans are a certain segment of them are still
Speaker 1: going to march in line behind Donald Trump and whatever
Speaker 1: it is that he wants to do. And I think
Speaker 1: that's a good indication that there isn't going to be
Speaker 1: a clean break on January and that that the country
Speaker 1: isn't going to be able to move beyond Trump, certainly
Speaker 1: not the Republican Party. Josh we We, how do you
Speaker 1: joining us yesterday live on the radio as this was
Speaker 1: taking place on the in the Capitol, UM, for your
Speaker 1: immediate reaction, for your immediate analysis. But I'm wondering with
Speaker 1: you know, almost twenty four hours at this point, to
Speaker 1: sort of think back on what happened yesterday. UM, what's
Speaker 1: the damage that's been done? No, I don't think we
Speaker 1: can begin to really know the answer to that question.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, part of the damage I think
Speaker 1: is is psychological and knowing that our country is susceptible
Speaker 1: of this sort of thing. I think part of the damage, um,
Speaker 1: comes to the reputation reputation of the United States in
Speaker 1: the world. I mean, it's certainly tarnished and diminished our
Speaker 1: standing even further. Uh, and the and the eyes of
Speaker 1: allies and foreign countries. I mean, one of the one
Speaker 1: of the things you saw yesterday was the leaders of
Speaker 1: autocratic or dictorial countries essentially trolling the United States by
Speaker 1: releasing official statements, you know, expressing concern over the violence, death,
Speaker 1: and mayhem in the US capital. Uh. It's it's just
Speaker 1: remarkable and almost unthinkable that this could have happened here.
Speaker 1: And then we still have two weeks to go, and
Speaker 1: and you know who knows. I mean, every day things
Speaker 1: seem to get worse in Washington. You don't think it
Speaker 1: can get worse, and then you turn on the news
Speaker 1: and see people overrunning the capitol, uh, fighting being killed. Um.
Speaker 1: So you know, until Trump is out of office on
Speaker 1: January twenty, which I do think will happen eventually. UM.
Speaker 1: You know, we really don't have the kind of distances
Speaker 1: perspective that we need you to answer that question. How
Speaker 1: significant is it that social media companies have intervened, at
Speaker 1: least some of them, you know, in all series. And
Speaker 1: I think that is a really big deal. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think it's commendable what Twitter did freezing Donald Trump's
Speaker 1: account and Facebook essentially kicking him off the platform until
Speaker 1: he leaves office. Twitter has been Donald Trump's main channel
Speaker 1: of communication, not just with his own followers, but with
Speaker 1: the media, with the culture, with cable news. When he tweets,
Speaker 1: people react, reporters react, We have to react. He can
Speaker 1: attack people, he can attack other Republicans. Uh, you know,
Speaker 1: a lot of official Washington was really kind of Marionette
Speaker 1: strings from Trump's Twitter account, from you know, the day
Speaker 1: he started running for office, certainly was throughout his presidency,
Speaker 1: and by taking away that platform from him, I mean,
Speaker 1: it really does feel like things have quieted down in
Speaker 1: the last twelve d eighteen hours. As Trump has been
Speaker 1: off Twitter, you can only imagine what he would be
Speaker 1: tweeting and doing and commanding. As you know, Mike Pence
Speaker 1: turned his back on him as Congress made official Joe
Speaker 1: Biden's victory in the presidential race. In the fact that
Speaker 1: he wasn't able to kind of fulminate and encourage more
Speaker 1: of this violence, I think is a good thing, and
Speaker 1: I think Twitter ought to ought to kick him off
Speaker 1: for good. Yeah, it's interesting. We talked to um Josh
Speaker 1: that Twitch, which is a streaming service owned by Amazon.
Speaker 1: They've suspended Trump's channel as well, And I guess they're
Speaker 1: going to do that until January and then reassess that's
Speaker 1: their word. Uh, the situation. Hey, Josh, just quickly, just
Speaker 1: got about thirty seconds. What do you think will ultimately
Speaker 1: maybe be the role of Donald Trump after he leaves
Speaker 1: the White House? Is he kingmaker? Is he media star?
Speaker 1: Does he go away to Florida and be quiet? Just quickly, Well,
Speaker 1: I'm sure he won't be quiet, but I have to
Speaker 1: say I do have some doubts about his ability to
Speaker 1: be kingmaker after what we've seen. He will still be
Speaker 1: an important voice in the party. A lot of people
Speaker 1: like Senator Josh Holly will be trying very hard to
Speaker 1: win his approval and the approval of supporters. But I
Speaker 1: don't think we can answer that. Get to know how
Speaker 1: things shake out and how much works to get Oh,
Speaker 1: it's good to check in with you. Thank you so much,
Speaker 1: Josh Green, National correspondent, Bloomberg Business Week, Joe Weber, Editor
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business Week. Check out that cover story. It's pictures
Speaker 1: and it's a timeline about the story of really our
Speaker 1: history here and our questions of democracy. You're listening to
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes
Speaker 1: Tim Stinovik on Bloomberg Radio. Yes, indeed, the Thursday edition
Speaker 1: of Bloomberg Business Week brought to you by se I
Speaker 1: imagine your asset managements firms operational infrastructure as a competitive advantage.
Speaker 1: Let see I show you how at se sc dot
Speaker 1: com slash I m s. This is Bloomberg. Do those
Speaker 1: who rereaked havoc in our capital today? You did not win.
Speaker 1: This mob was in good part President Trump's doing, incited
Speaker 1: by his words, his lies. What happened here today was
Speaker 1: an insurrection incited by the President of the United States.
Speaker 1: Will be part of a history that chose the world
Speaker 1: what America is made off. We will not bell the lawlessness. Colleagues,
Speaker 1: It's time to move on. Well, you're hearing there the
Speaker 1: voices of Vice President Mike Penn, Senator Chuck Schumer, Senator
Speaker 1: Mitt Romney, Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, and how Speaker Nancy Pelosi,
Speaker 1: those lawmakers reacting last night to the chaos in Washington,
Speaker 1: d C. After Congress resumed deliberating the electoral College certifications
Speaker 1: on Wednesday evening. Right, it is done, but uh and
Speaker 1: this is ending two months of failed challenges by h
Speaker 1: Joe Biden's predecessor. We're talking about Donald Trump, and then,
Speaker 1: of course we know ultimately exploded into violence at the U.
Speaker 1: S Capitol yesterday. So we watched it all unfold in
Speaker 1: real time, and I'm guessing so did our next guest,
Speaker 1: Chris Leu front of the show, back with us. His
Speaker 1: former Deputy Secretary of Labor under the Obama administration, worked
Speaker 1: up on Capitol Hill. He's someone who has worked in
Speaker 1: each of the branches of the US government. He's senior
Speaker 1: fellow at the University of Virginia Miller Center. Was also
Speaker 1: on Barack Obama's transition team. He was the executive director.
Speaker 1: He's on the Biden transition team, and he joins us
Speaker 1: on the phone in Charlottesville, Virginia. You've got to stop
Speaker 1: with all your accomplishments, Chris, because sorry, um. First of all,
Speaker 1: nice to have you here. Happy new Year. What a
Speaker 1: rough start to the new year. Our democracy yesterday tested
Speaker 1: really big time this week. How did you see it?
Speaker 1: You know, it's somebody who spent a dozen years on
Speaker 1: Capitol Hill, in both the Senate in the House. I mean,
Speaker 1: it was shocking, but that's even sort of an understatement.
Speaker 1: In the U. S. Capitol is one of the most
Speaker 1: secure facilities in the country. You know, it's it's protecting
Speaker 1: our highest selected leaders. It's worth deliberations happen in the
Speaker 1: House and Senate, I mean, and to see those people
Speaker 1: storming in as easily as they apparently did, causing the
Speaker 1: kind of havoc disrupting the proceedings. Um, it's you know,
Speaker 1: we keep saying this is not who we are as Americans,
Speaker 1: but it clearly is. And I think it's going to
Speaker 1: require a lot of soul searching about how we got
Speaker 1: to this point, how does the country move on from this?
Speaker 1: Where do we go from here? You know, I think, Um,
Speaker 1: the President elect, Joe Biden sent sent the right message yesterday.
Speaker 1: You know, he's continually talked about healing, you know, really
Speaker 1: going back to the beginning of his campaign, that this
Speaker 1: was a battle for the soul of our nation. I
Speaker 1: think he is going to try to obviously take the
Speaker 1: temperature down on the rhetoric. Uh, notwithstanding the fact that
Speaker 1: he's going to control both the House and Senate. He's
Speaker 1: gonna he has indicated he's going to continue to work
Speaker 1: for bipartisan solutions. Um. But I think we need to
Speaker 1: recognize that there is a very strong anti government under
Speaker 1: It's not just anti government, anti all institutions undercurrent in
Speaker 1: our country right now, and that just continues to fester.
Speaker 1: And that's been a long term problem in this country.
Speaker 1: You know, we just talked Chris about the or a
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business Week magazine this week and this wasn't there
Speaker 1: a plan, But after yesterday they had to do a
Speaker 1: quick change because there was no doubt about it what
Speaker 1: the cover had to be. And in big letters, it
Speaker 1: says new Low and underneath it it says the trashing
Speaker 1: of American democracy and it shows the capital. Uh, and
Speaker 1: the protesters just climbing the walls and all the way up.
Speaker 1: You said something though that really resonated. You said, clearly,
Speaker 1: this is who we are as Americans, these protesters. You know,
Speaker 1: it does feel like half the country is this way.
Speaker 1: You know a lot of people thought there was fraud
Speaker 1: in the election. Uh. There's division even within each of
Speaker 1: the parties in terms of some of the younger members,
Speaker 1: the older members, you know, the Republicans the same thing.
Speaker 1: And I do wonder how do we kind of bring
Speaker 1: it all together. So we go back to a time
Speaker 1: where people did cross across the aisle or reach across
Speaker 1: the aisle and actually get things done that benefited more Americans,
Speaker 1: most Americans. You know. Look, I I watched the remarks yesterday,
Speaker 1: both before and after the violence. I was struck by
Speaker 1: Senator McConnell's comments, where I think he really appropriately talked
Speaker 1: about that there was no election fraud. This was not
Speaker 1: a particularly a close election. You know, it is now
Speaker 1: the time to move on. And while I can applaud
Speaker 1: Senator McConnell and other Republicans who gave statements like that yesterday,
Speaker 1: one wonders why those statements were not made two months ago.
Speaker 1: We've known for two months who this election results are,
Speaker 1: and I think we do need to be careful. I mean, look,
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not being partisan, but this is not
Speaker 1: a both sides are wrong. I mean, we have a president,
Speaker 1: sitting president who even before election day, has said if
Speaker 1: he does not win, it will be because of fraud,
Speaker 1: and has continued to perpetuate this idea. And so it's
Speaker 1: not surprising that there is a significant percentage of people
Speaker 1: in this country that believe there's fraud. Notwithstanding the fact
Speaker 1: that the Department of Homeland security. UH. Mr Trump's own
Speaker 1: former attorney general have all said there's no fraud. This
Speaker 1: has now been litigated in over sixty court cases around
Speaker 1: the country. So you know, look, I mean, it's it's
Speaker 1: it's it's there's an underlying distrust and government that is
Speaker 1: being um exploited by you know, elected officials. You've got
Speaker 1: a bifurcated not even bifurcated. You've got a diverse media
Speaker 1: atmosphere where people can watch whatever news they want. There's
Speaker 1: there's a lot going on here. I think Joe Biden
Speaker 1: can be part of the solution, but he won't be
Speaker 1: the entire solution. Do you think part of the solution
Speaker 1: is invoking the twenty Amendment for the president's remaining days
Speaker 1: or impeaching the president, as lawmakers have suggested. I guess
Speaker 1: I'd say this. Uh. I do think there needs to
Speaker 1: be a strong message sent that this is not acceptable conduct. Um.
Speaker 1: But we are only left with thirteen days left. That
Speaker 1: that being said, I mean, you know, we have seen
Speaker 1: just over the course of twenty four hours what one
Speaker 1: person's words can do. And I go back to you
Speaker 1: know what Joe Biden said yesterday in his remarks he said,
Speaker 1: you know, the president's words matter. At their best, they
Speaker 1: can inspire and at the worst they can then fight.
Speaker 1: And that's what happened. And so I think we should
Speaker 1: all brace ourselves for the next thirteen days, um, because
Speaker 1: I don't you know, I think as fewer and fewer
Speaker 1: guard rails exist around this president, he remains a very
Speaker 1: unpredictable and potentially dangerous person right now. So, Chris, I
Speaker 1: do want to ask you about kind of the role
Speaker 1: of all of us in being responsible citizens, responsible members
Speaker 1: of the media. I know we try to be very
Speaker 1: careful here, We are careful at Bloomberg, but I do
Speaker 1: wonder there was so much coverage of everything and anything
Speaker 1: that Donald Trump did and his team did, and I
Speaker 1: think we also kind of struggled with it sometimes whether
Speaker 1: it was really news, uh, and whether or not you know,
Speaker 1: who are responsibility and kind of fueling some of the fury. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, And I think this is a legitimate concern
Speaker 1: that people really need to examine. And it goes back
Speaker 1: to the presidential campaign, when you had network that would
Speaker 1: ron Trump's rallies, you know, from start to finit giving
Speaker 1: him a disproportionate amount of airtime. But also at the
Speaker 1: same time airing a lot of you know, the falsehoods
Speaker 1: that we have all gotten used to now. And the
Speaker 1: theory is always, well, you know it's news. Well just
Speaker 1: because it's news or might be newsworthy, doesn't mean it
Speaker 1: needs to be put out there. And how do you
Speaker 1: properly refute the false allegations? Um in that, and how
Speaker 1: do you do that in real time? And then it
Speaker 1: continues all the way to you know, whether it's you know,
Speaker 1: his press conferences he did early in his administration or
Speaker 1: the COVID daily briefings that he did through last spring
Speaker 1: and summer where he was just dispensing harmful misinformation and
Speaker 1: then obviously what we've seen just in the last twenty
Speaker 1: four hours with you know, Facebook and Twitter both suspending him. Um,
Speaker 1: you know what what what is what is the role
Speaker 1: of social media as well? So, uh, you know, we've
Speaker 1: never had a president who has pushed the limits on
Speaker 1: disinformation as much. And you know, the theory had always been,
Speaker 1: you know, what the president says matters that needs to
Speaker 1: be covered, maybe that shouldn't be the rule going forward. Chris,
Speaker 1: you're you're on the president lex transition team, and I'm
Speaker 1: wondering how you would characterize the transition thus far in
Speaker 1: the communication that the team has had with the Trump
Speaker 1: administration to ensure this this peaceful transfer of power that
Speaker 1: the President overnight committed to. You know, I would say
Speaker 1: throughout the transition, at least the parts that I have seen, UM,
Speaker 1: the cooperation has been good. I have been leading the
Speaker 1: Department of Labor transition team. We've had great cooperation from
Speaker 1: our counterparts, UM, within the Trump administration at the Department
Speaker 1: of Labor. But I know that there has been problems
Speaker 1: in other departments, like the Department of Defense, uh, the
Speaker 1: Office of Management and Budget, you know, and we have today, um,
Speaker 1: this morning, the President putting out a statement committing to
Speaker 1: the orderly transition. Well he's doing that thirteen days before
Speaker 1: inauguration day. It's about two months to And I think
Speaker 1: also there had been elements that weren't peaceful exactly, you know.
Speaker 1: And I think you know when you were talking about, UM,
Speaker 1: the handover the largest organization in the world, the settled government.
Speaker 1: You want absolute cooperation from day one, and that's exactly
Speaker 1: what we got in two thousand and eight from the
Speaker 1: outgoing Bush administration. And that's not a political thing. It's
Speaker 1: just when you're talking about issues of national security and
Speaker 1: homeland security and now we've got a pandemic, you want
Speaker 1: to make sure that that that it's as seamless a
Speaker 1: transition as possible on January. One thing that does stand
Speaker 1: out for me, and having watched kind of into the
Speaker 1: wee hours the process last night. Um, despite we know
Speaker 1: that the electoral college votes they were confirmed and President
Speaker 1: elect Joe Biden, yes, he and Kamala Harris they will
Speaker 1: be in the White House come January, there were still, um,
Speaker 1: the two sixty two Republicans in the House and Senate
Speaker 1: who were present, A hundred forty six hundred forty and
Speaker 1: what are both of the objections in terms of that
Speaker 1: electoral college vote? That number, to me was staggering. Chris,
Speaker 1: and I do wonder for someone who has worked in
Speaker 1: the capital, you know, worked within the halls of Congress,
Speaker 1: you know that divide like where did we get where?
Speaker 1: How did we get there? And how do we kind
Speaker 1: of get back to a kinder, gentler way. Yeah, we
Speaker 1: probably don't have enough time in the segment to talk
Speaker 1: about how we got there, but I will say I
Speaker 1: was disappointed by that as well. I mean I was
Speaker 1: watching the Senate proceedings, and I was heartened by the
Speaker 1: fact that, you know, most of the people who said
Speaker 1: they were going to object pulled down their objections. But boy,
Speaker 1: when you had that vote on the outside with like
Speaker 1: a hundred d and thirty, those people, they were as
Speaker 1: if nothing that had happened in terms of the afternoon,
Speaker 1: the chaos of violence had happened at all. And I
Speaker 1: think simply with their votes, they continue to perpetuate this
Speaker 1: idea that the election was somehow stolen, and I think
Speaker 1: that is a problem. And the truth is, because of
Speaker 1: you know, jerrymandering in this country, because of the way
Speaker 1: that people process news, these people on the House Republican
Speaker 1: side will probably never suffer any political consequences for that vote.
Speaker 1: In fact, they might even be rewarded for that vote. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's pretty staggering. Hey, forty seconds left. Hears into working
Speaker 1: with the transition within the labor department from the get go,
Speaker 1: what do we need to do to help out the
Speaker 1: labor market going forward? Well, we need to get our
Speaker 1: arms around the pandemic, because unless we can get that
Speaker 1: under control, we're never going to have a steady economic recovery.
Speaker 1: And um, you know, and obviously we're gonna need more
Speaker 1: economic relief when this current round um expires in March.
Speaker 1: All right, Chris, gonna leave it there. Thank you so much,
Speaker 1: Happy New Year again, and really appreciate you being in
Speaker 1: on so much for us. Chris lou Senior fellow at
Speaker 1: the University of Virginia Miller Center, former Deputy Secretary of
Speaker 1: Labor under President Obama. We mentioned e d of Barack
Speaker 1: Obama's transition team, and he is a member of the
Speaker 1: Biden transition team specifically in the Labor Department journal. Now,
Speaker 1: but you let me drive, no, no, no no, no home
Speaker 1: an please, I'll do the riding drivel. I want to drive.
Speaker 1: Just drive by the questions, trying. This is the drive
Speaker 1: to the globe. Give me thanks. We'll drying us down
Speaker 1: on Bluebird Radio. All right, just about eleven minutes left
Speaker 1: in today's trading session, Carol Master along with Tim Stanovick,
Speaker 1: and if I look at the equity trade, we've got
Speaker 1: the SMP and the NAZAC pretty much at highs of
Speaker 1: the day, we're up about one point six percent. Charlie
Speaker 1: mentioned that on the SMP two point seven percent higher
Speaker 1: on the Nasdack do up sixty one point, So quite
Speaker 1: a rally or decent rally considering kind of all the
Speaker 1: turmoil we've been dealing with. Yeah, I mean, I think
Speaker 1: that's a key theme here. We talked to us two
Speaker 1: Creedy Goopt and Sini Bassa Shas earlier in the day. Um,
Speaker 1: let's see what Walter Todd has to say about that
Speaker 1: time for the drive to the clothes. Let's bring him in.
Speaker 1: He is chief investment officer at Greenwood Capital Associates. On
Speaker 1: the phone from Greenwood, South Carolina. Walter, Happy New year.
Speaker 1: Nice to have you here. And I was talking with
Speaker 1: Greg Valier yesterday after the closing bell at a d C.
Speaker 1: And despite even the you know, turmoil and the breaching
Speaker 1: of the capitol yesterday, you know, we saw stocks move
Speaker 1: higher even though they finished off their highs yesterday. Nonetheless
Speaker 1: we had a rally. The markets didn't come undone. How
Speaker 1: do you make sense of kind of the disconnect of
Speaker 1: what we've been seeing in Washington versus what we continue
Speaker 1: to see in the financial markets. It's like one disconnect
Speaker 1: after another, to be quite honest. Yeah, Well, good afternoon, Caroline,
Speaker 1: Sam good to be here. Yeah, it was you have
Speaker 1: a TV outside my office, and so you're watching the
Speaker 1: Bloomberg and you know, seeing the markets move higher and
Speaker 1: than watching the scenes from the Capitol was really surreal. Um. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: I think, you know, it's kind of goes back to
Speaker 1: what you just mentioned in terms of that we've had
Speaker 1: a disconnect in the market, if you will, from I
Speaker 1: don't want to stay from reality, but certainly from the
Speaker 1: underlying economic fundamentals for really the duration of and that's
Speaker 1: really kind of one of the strange things about this market.
Speaker 1: It's all it's been all about the anticipation of getting
Speaker 1: beyond this and the reopening, and then then we got
Speaker 1: the vaccine news in November and we really started to
Speaker 1: amp up after that. So it appears to me that
Speaker 1: the market is just kind of looking through everything, even
Speaker 1: a you know, attempted coup as someone said, um yesterday,
Speaker 1: So it is, you know, quite incredible. But I think
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, it comes back to
Speaker 1: liquidity and the Fed kind of holds the keys of
Speaker 1: this market and as long as they are going to
Speaker 1: allow you know, the liquidity to continue, which it from
Speaker 1: all the comments we've gotten over the past several months,
Speaker 1: that appears to be the case. I mean that that's
Speaker 1: what's going to continue to drive this market higher. What
Speaker 1: are what are investors signaling right now about a Congress
Speaker 1: Uh in a White House that's fully controlled by by Democrats.
Speaker 1: I'll be you know, in the Senate with a ever
Speaker 1: so slim majority, the slimmest of majorities. Yeah. Well, since
Speaker 1: the election, what you've seen is really a rotation into
Speaker 1: more kind of inflationary type sectors or cyclically oriented sectors.
Speaker 1: And it's not that you've seen necessarily move out of tech,
Speaker 1: but this's been more subdued in some of the growth areas.
Speaker 1: And we see this back and forth. You know, yesterday
Speaker 1: was definitely very as cyclical rotation. Today is back to
Speaker 1: more the growth and tech and healthcare and so forth.
Speaker 1: So I think you can own both, but definitely the
Speaker 1: market kind of signal is you talked about rates in
Speaker 1: the last segment with Dave Wilson. The rates are moving higher.
Speaker 1: That's going to favor you know, some of these areas
Speaker 1: like financials and industrials and materials, and that's what you're
Speaker 1: seeing U for the past several months. Well, okay, I
Speaker 1: have to go back from movement because we have had
Speaker 1: a lot of conversations I was just thinking about what
Speaker 1: you said, you know, how some people said it attempted
Speaker 1: coup yesterday. I mean, who would have thought like those
Speaker 1: kinds of words would be coming out of anybody's mouth. So, like,
Speaker 1: I mean, I this is one of my all time
Speaker 1: favorite quotes. Uh. You know, there are decades when nothing happens,
Speaker 1: and then there are weeks where decades happen. And uh,
Speaker 1: you know I use that back in March. So I
Speaker 1: think it's appropriate for this week as well, because you know,
Speaker 1: a lot is going on right now. Well you know,
Speaker 1: and it's interesting that you say that because, um, you know,
Speaker 1: it's not necessarily just a one day thing. And I
Speaker 1: say that in that the world was watching us. We've
Speaker 1: had a lot of stories on the Bloomberg about China saying, well,
Speaker 1: you know, us, you're kind of hypocrites because what's going
Speaker 1: on in your country and you're often critical about what's
Speaker 1: going on in ours. And I do think about the
Speaker 1: heightened tentions that will continue probably between US and China.
Speaker 1: So I do wonder what this means potentially for the
Speaker 1: US economy ultimately, and then how it plays its way
Speaker 1: into investments. Yeah, I think you know, certainly the credibility
Speaker 1: of the US you know, took a hit yesterday, but
Speaker 1: you could make the argument it's been taken a hit
Speaker 1: for for a while here um on the global stage.
Speaker 1: And I think the real question or answer to your
Speaker 1: question is really going to be kind of what comes
Speaker 1: next and how the incoming administration kind of deals with
Speaker 1: this and with the world from a trade policy in
Speaker 1: other aspects. And so I think, you know, if if
Speaker 1: if you kind of look at Biden's history, UM, it
Speaker 1: should be a more predictable at least kind of situation there,
Speaker 1: which would be gosh, you know, boring, would be great,
Speaker 1: uh these days. So I think it can we can
Speaker 1: we can get through it without a big hiccup if
Speaker 1: if we get some followed through from the from the
Speaker 1: next administration and kind of a transition from where we've
Speaker 1: been the past several years. Is there any indication to
Speaker 1: you that that's looking like it's going to happen. Well,
Speaker 1: all you can do is kind of look at, um,
Speaker 1: kind of listen to the words of of what some
Speaker 1: of the incoming it illustrations has said, and kind of
Speaker 1: look at the history of maybe their policies in the
Speaker 1: past and and and what they've done. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: rejoining the Paris Climate Accord. Uh, you know, not implementing
Speaker 1: new teariffs on countries. You know, that would be a
Speaker 1: start in terms of kind of rejoining the world stage.
Speaker 1: And uh, I think it would be helpful. Hey Walter,
Speaker 1: just quickly. Does it make you nervous that we're going
Speaker 1: to have even by a slim margin, but you've got
Speaker 1: Democrats basically with a clean sweep, you know in terms
Speaker 1: of um Congress and of course as well as the
Speaker 1: White House. Does it make you nervous? Because you know,
Speaker 1: I'm kind of tired of saying gridlock good for Washington.
Speaker 1: I don't know that that's always the case. Um, it'd
Speaker 1: be nice as an American citizen to see some things
Speaker 1: get done ultimately. But how do you see it as
Speaker 1: an investor? Yeah? So I think the margin is so
Speaker 1: slim that it really prevents any kind of really dramatic
Speaker 1: policy changes. It does help, It will help the Democrats
Speaker 1: kind of get approvals for you know, their appointments and
Speaker 1: so forth. But I think you actually you're you're kind
Speaker 1: of getting the best of actually the best of both
Speaker 1: the worlds. That that means you know, more potentral spending,
Speaker 1: and stimulus. We can talk about the long term applications
Speaker 1: of that, but then without maybe the big tax increases
Speaker 1: in some of the other more extreme policies that have
Speaker 1: been discussed in the election cycle. All Right, we're gonna
Speaker 1: leave it there, Hey, Walter, thank you so much. Happy
Speaker 1: New Year once again. Walter Todd, chief investment Officer at
Speaker 1: Greenwood Capital Associates, on the phone from Greenwood, South Carolina.
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for listening to Bloomberg Business Week. Download
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