1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:03,200 Speaker 1: The more we learn about COVID nineteen, the more questions 2 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:06,240 Speaker 1: and worries we have. Cal Hope can help with free 3 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:09,959 Speaker 1: COVID nineteen emotional support. Call eight three three three one 4 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:13,440 Speaker 1: seven four six seven three or live chat at cal 5 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:19,560 Speaker 1: Hope dot org. Today look for your children's eyes and 6 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:23,480 Speaker 1: you will discover the true magic of a forest. Find 7 00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:26,479 Speaker 1: a forest near you and start exploring it. Discover the 8 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:29,320 Speaker 1: Forest dot Org wrought to you by the United States 9 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:33,600 Speaker 1: Forest Service and the AD Council. The Laundronauts a potentially 10 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:38,000 Speaker 1: untrue tale based on actual events. A young boy is 11 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 1: shoved into a washing machine and vanishes. His friends try 12 00:00:42,479 --> 00:00:45,880 Speaker 1: to rescue him, only to discover a magical world beyond 13 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:50,920 Speaker 1: the machine. Season one stars Ed Asner and Me John Cameron, 14 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:55,800 Speaker 1: Mitchell Fine j D. Belzel and bring him back home safely. 15 00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:58,720 Speaker 1: Listen to The Laundronauts on the I Heart Radio app, 16 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:08,760 Speaker 1: Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. Calling mystifying. 17 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 1: I think I would get me to a nunnery. I 18 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 1: mean I would go and do penance, you know, go 19 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:23,200 Speaker 1: work for some nonprofit in the art world for the 20 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:28,560 Speaker 1: rest of my career and try to atone for whatever 21 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:35,959 Speaker 1: had happened in the grim aftermath of the closing of 22 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 1: the Knotler Gallery. Ten lawsuits were filed by cheated customers, 23 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 1: most notably Domenico and Eleanor de Sole. There saga began 24 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:50,279 Speaker 1: with a shriek in a Miami hotel room after reading 25 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 1: the story of the fake Lagrange Pollock in The New 26 00:01:53,560 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 1: York Times. Most former customers of the now shuttered gallery 27 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:08,480 Speaker 1: just wanted to recoup their losses. Investigators concluded that no 28 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 1: fewer than sixty fake paintings had been created at the 29 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:18,919 Speaker 1: direction of Glypheara Rosales. At trial, an accounting expert would 30 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:22,680 Speaker 1: testify that Freedman and dealer Julian Weissman had sold their 31 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:27,440 Speaker 1: clients seventy million dollars in fakes, yielding a net income 32 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:30,640 Speaker 1: of thirty three point seven million dollars for Knoedler and 33 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:34,000 Speaker 1: generating more than ten million dollars in commissions for Anne. 34 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:38,400 Speaker 1: This was in addition to her salary, estimated to be 35 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 1: four hundred thousand dollars annually. Michael Hammer took his own 36 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 1: four hundred thousand dollars salary plus twenty percent of both galleries, 37 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 1: a near limitless fund, spewing cash to eight thirty one, 38 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 1: his private holding company. As for Rosales, no taxes had 39 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:01,240 Speaker 1: been paid from her sales to note or so profit 40 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:04,920 Speaker 1: estimates varied. The New York Times would later declare that 41 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 1: Rosalez had taken in about twenty six million dollars from 42 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:11,840 Speaker 1: her sale of paintings to the two dealers. That was 43 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 1: all money that would have to be disgorged, along with 44 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:17,640 Speaker 1: some twelve point five million dollars due to the i 45 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:23,960 Speaker 1: R s. Surprisingly, one of the first to settle was 46 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:29,800 Speaker 1: Pierre Lagrange himself in October two thousand twelve. Shouting from 47 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:34,240 Speaker 1: the rooftops had earned Lagrange some admiration, but also his 48 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:38,240 Speaker 1: share of ridicule among collectors for buying a painting without 49 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 1: doing due diligence. He had vowed to get his seventeen 50 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 1: million dollars back, but Artsy, the online art magazine, published 51 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 1: a rumor he's settled for six point four million dollars. 52 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:54,120 Speaker 1: Being first in line for a refund had its advantages. 53 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 1: There was likely more money in the galleries till to 54 00:03:57,480 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 1: be had. The Desoles, by contrast, felt bound by a 55 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 1: sense of mission. Their lawsuit was aimed at making the 56 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 1: truth public in a civil trial. Having a judge and 57 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 1: jury declare FIRA's forgery ring to be nothing less than 58 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 1: a racketeering conspiracy was the real prize for them. Assistant 59 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 1: District Attorney Jason Hernandez was taking a very different approach. 60 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:27,359 Speaker 1: He was trying to make a criminal case of the 61 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 1: notetor's dealings. Surprisingly, it was far from a slam dunk. 62 00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:35,240 Speaker 1: What we were doing previously is sort of your art 63 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:38,240 Speaker 1: fraud one oh one playbook. You've got to prove that 64 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:39,960 Speaker 1: the paintings are fake, and you've got to prove that 65 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:42,919 Speaker 1: someone who sold them knew that they were fake. But 66 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 1: it was very clear that this was going to be 67 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:51,159 Speaker 1: especially difficult following our usual kind of playbook in this case, 68 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 1: because well, there were an unusually large number of prominent 69 00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:59,840 Speaker 1: people who seemingly we're going to stand by the paintings 70 00:04:59,839 --> 00:05:04,800 Speaker 1: and say that they were real. That is uncommon, and 71 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:07,680 Speaker 1: I could see right away, well, you know, how do 72 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 1: you get over that? Because if the person selling them 73 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 1: is showing them to all of these esteemed people and 74 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:17,360 Speaker 1: they're saying, yep, looks right to me, looks good to me, 75 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 1: that's not a criminal case anymore. You're not going to 76 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:23,279 Speaker 1: be able to prove fraud that someone intended to deceive, 77 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:26,480 Speaker 1: because they'll say, well, you know this museum director said 78 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:28,480 Speaker 1: it was good, and I mean, you know, an freeman 79 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:31,240 Speaker 1: bought one of the paintings. It was well thought out. 80 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 1: The truth is all of the experts declined to authenticate 81 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:43,080 Speaker 1: the paintings in any official capacity. They've seen them in 82 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:46,840 Speaker 1: passing on the notors walls at cocktail parties, but none 83 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 1: of the experts had any interest and testifying. You've got 84 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 1: to remember it's it's a criminal case, so you have 85 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:56,359 Speaker 1: to prove your case to twelve people beyond a reasonable doubt. 86 00:05:57,279 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 1: We weren't really getting anywhere with the conventional investigative methods, 87 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:07,120 Speaker 1: and the provenance was very difficult to disprove. Glafira ros Alves. 88 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:10,920 Speaker 1: We know very virtually nothing about She told no Learn 89 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:13,880 Speaker 1: and Freedom that she was a brokera representing a family 90 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:16,760 Speaker 1: that she wouldn't disclose, and I can't get hurt to 91 00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:19,479 Speaker 1: disclose it. So I can't issue her a grand jury 92 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 1: subpoena and say tell me the name. She would just 93 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 1: assert her fitrom them and right and refuse to tell me. 94 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:28,200 Speaker 1: My thought was, I can kind of through the back 95 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 1: door figure out whether or not Glafira was alas represents 96 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:35,360 Speaker 1: a family that owns these paintings, because if she's lying 97 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 1: about that, that is going to be a crime that 98 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:40,560 Speaker 1: I can charge, okay, because that's in a very important 99 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:44,080 Speaker 1: part of the provenance. Imagine if she's lying about this 100 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:47,040 Speaker 1: actually being a European family that bought these and stored 101 00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:49,840 Speaker 1: them over all these decades, well, that is something I 102 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 1: can charge her with. So she says she's a brokera 103 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:55,040 Speaker 1: she says the paintings are not hers. I could see 104 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:57,359 Speaker 1: that all the money would go from the no Oler 105 00:06:57,360 --> 00:06:59,920 Speaker 1: Gallery once they would purchase them, to a couple of 106 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 1: bank accounts, I think two or three in Spain. So 107 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:05,599 Speaker 1: my thought was, I'm gonna ask Spain with a we 108 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:08,240 Speaker 1: have a treaty with Spain to for their bank records. 109 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 1: And then if she is a broker, I'm going to 110 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:18,239 Speaker 1: see or or whatever percentage go to the family in Europe, 111 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 1: and it's going to go to a bank account in 112 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:23,600 Speaker 1: some other country probably, and then I lost that country 113 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 1: to give me the bank records, and you might prevail there. 114 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 1: You might actually get foreign banks to cooperate and give 115 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 1: you records that would prove that she had been engaged 116 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 1: in financial Shenanigans. That's right, let's see where the money flows. 117 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:39,760 Speaker 1: So I took that kind of old approach. Okay, you know, 118 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 1: follow the money to the sexier world of art fraud, 119 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 1: where you follow the pigments and those sorts of things. 120 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:49,760 Speaker 1: And what it showed was that she was lying about 121 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 1: who owned the paintings. She owned them, someone else owned them, 122 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:57,080 Speaker 1: but she's keeping all the money. So that gave me 123 00:07:57,360 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 1: a fraud charge against her. Okay, you are false representing 124 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 1: to the Nobler gallery that these paintings belong to, you know, 125 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:07,280 Speaker 1: and then fill in the long story what she told 126 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 1: all that that yarn she spun about who it belonged to. 127 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 1: I now have leverage against CFIA. I have a criminal charge. 128 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:16,720 Speaker 1: It's a lot of money, you know, many millions of 129 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 1: dollars of paintings, so it's a significant fraud. And then 130 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 1: on top of that, she is not reporting any of 131 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:26,080 Speaker 1: this money as income, so there is a tax charge there. 132 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:29,119 Speaker 1: Nor is she reporting the fact that she has formed 133 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:32,559 Speaker 1: bank accounts in excess of ten thousand dollars, which is 134 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:36,480 Speaker 1: another federal crime. So now the deck is stacked way 135 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 1: high against the Fera rosolves. She's kind of got nowhere 136 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:44,600 Speaker 1: to run. I have very simple, provable, direct, strong criminal 137 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:48,120 Speaker 1: charges against her, and now I can kind of use 138 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:53,520 Speaker 1: that as pressure um to get her to talk unless 139 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:55,160 Speaker 1: she's willing to spend, you know, a lot of time 140 00:08:55,160 --> 00:09:02,200 Speaker 1: in prison. One night, early in the summer of two 141 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:07,400 Speaker 1: thousand thirteen, some eighteen years after his first faithful meeting 142 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:11,720 Speaker 1: with Anne at a Soho art gallery, law enforcement agents 143 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:16,120 Speaker 1: came crashing through the front doors of Carlos Andrs. Multimillion 144 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 1: dollar home. It's very traumatic. They came actually to wake 145 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:27,199 Speaker 1: me up. It was very early in the morning, at 146 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:29,200 Speaker 1: six in the morning around the time. And then there 147 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 1: was the squad. I was sleeping, My daughter was upstairs sleeping. 148 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:39,720 Speaker 1: She was supposed to go to Spain the next day 149 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:44,680 Speaker 1: or that day day evening. And they knocked at the 150 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:49,600 Speaker 1: door and they told me that they were the police 151 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:53,120 Speaker 1: and opened the door. And I saw them, you know, 152 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:58,200 Speaker 1: with their weapons, and and I said, can I put 153 00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:01,240 Speaker 1: something on it? And they said open it, open it 154 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:05,120 Speaker 1: or else. Of course I opened the door. I saw 155 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:08,760 Speaker 1: them drawning all over my house. Uh when they were 156 00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:20,760 Speaker 1: with the weapons pointing everywhere. Oh, and then they took 157 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:24,720 Speaker 1: me and I wanted to give a hat to my daughter. 158 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:30,439 Speaker 1: So they didn't let me. Oh, so it was horrible. 159 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 1: We'll be back in a minute. I'm Emilia on this podcast. 160 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:42,800 Speaker 1: I'm taking you on a search, a search for love. 161 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:49,960 Speaker 1: Hard working Latina six cool, down to earth guy, Swipe 162 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:52,760 Speaker 1: swipe slide. It's hard out there for a girl to 163 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 1: find Mr Right. I have to meet a lot of 164 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:59,480 Speaker 1: Mr Wrongs. He'd invite me over to have dinner with 165 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:01,959 Speaker 1: his Emily. I knew he didn't tell them that it 166 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:05,760 Speaker 1: was transgender. Dating as a trans woman can be complicated, 167 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:08,520 Speaker 1: but there were other reasons. I felt like I couldn't 168 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:11,720 Speaker 1: always beat myself. And he's asking me things about my family, 169 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:15,200 Speaker 1: like my mom's in prison, my grandmother was arrested for 170 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:20,080 Speaker 1: working with the Mexican drug cartel. This is Crumbs, my 171 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:23,240 Speaker 1: love story. It's a show about the things we set 172 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:25,840 Speaker 1: up for and the bits of ourselves that make us 173 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:29,480 Speaker 1: who we are. Listen to Crumbs as part of the 174 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:33,040 Speaker 1: Michael Duda podcast Network, available on the I Heart Radio app, 175 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:38,240 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Sir, we 176 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:40,200 Speaker 1: got your test results back and give it to me 177 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:42,720 Speaker 1: straight doc. You have to listen to the Ridiculous News 178 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:46,880 Speaker 1: podcast Ridiculous News. The podcast Ridiculous News. It's a podcast 179 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:50,959 Speaker 1: hosted by Bill Whorley and Mark Kendall. Ridiculous News. Those 180 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:54,520 Speaker 1: two comedians who's worked with Adult Swim in Comedy Central. Yeah. 181 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:56,880 Speaker 1: I knew you were my favorite patient for a reason. Well, 182 00:11:56,920 --> 00:11:59,359 Speaker 1: you're the best doctor I've ever had. And they're hilarious. 183 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:02,040 Speaker 1: I love the videos. Bills actually my cousin. They talked 184 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:04,079 Speaker 1: about the news, but not like in a depressing way, 185 00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:05,960 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. They did an episode on 186 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:08,560 Speaker 1: April fools. Great, well, I need to listen to it. 187 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 1: When does it drop March fourteenth? Get it? Wherever you 188 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:14,520 Speaker 1: find podcasts, like in a cereal box. Well, no, that's 189 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:16,480 Speaker 1: not where you find a podcast. Oh so like in 190 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:19,960 Speaker 1: the middle of a tree. No, do you know what 191 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:24,880 Speaker 1: a podcast is. Yeah, it's like a kind of tire. No, No, 192 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:30,120 Speaker 1: it's it's something that you listen to podcasts. Yeah, so 193 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:32,880 Speaker 1: listen to the Ridiculous News podcast on the I Heart 194 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:36,200 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. 195 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:44,400 Speaker 1: Produce sile Absolutely not m Hi, I'm Elizabeth Dutton and 196 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:47,760 Speaker 1: I'm Elizabeth Dutton. Wait, sorry, Zaron, do you want to 197 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:49,600 Speaker 1: say your name? No? I'm good, good, go ahead. We're 198 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:52,719 Speaker 1: the hosts of Ridiculous Crime. People love true crime, right, 199 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:56,800 Speaker 1: the mystery, the intrigue, the human frailty. But what a 200 00:12:56,840 --> 00:12:58,720 Speaker 1: lot of us don't like is the blood and the 201 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:00,800 Speaker 1: guts and the mayhem where any way, wait, some of 202 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 1: us do like the mayhem. Okay, but let's be real, 203 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 1: there's nothing funny about murder. Okay. That's our show gives 204 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:10,160 Speaker 1: you stories like the kidnapping of Frank Sinatra Jr. And 205 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:13,520 Speaker 1: the Max Headrooms signal hijacking. Oh so you mean ridiculous 206 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:18,480 Speaker 1: stories like the UK cat Shaver and Pablo Escobar's cocaine hippos. Yeah, 207 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 1: stories like the dudes who stole Buzzy, the animatronic whatever 208 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 1: he was from Disney World, and the woman whose husband 209 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:25,520 Speaker 1: tried to kill her but came back from the dead 210 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 1: and surprised him at her own funeral. Yeah, that does 211 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:31,320 Speaker 1: sound good. You can find this new podcast, Ridiculous Crime 212 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:34,120 Speaker 1: all over the place, the I Heart Radio app, the 213 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. I don't 214 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:43,120 Speaker 1: know how you live. Ridiculous Crime. Brian Scarlatto's fear as 215 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:46,320 Speaker 1: attorney and family friend took the call while out of 216 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 1: town on a work tut I recalled because I was 217 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:52,719 Speaker 1: in Las Vegas for work, and my wife called to 218 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:55,920 Speaker 1: say that had been arrested and that there was a 219 00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:58,160 Speaker 1: story in the newspaper, which you know, I looked up 220 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:00,920 Speaker 1: on the internet and um, and you know, at this 221 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:03,160 Speaker 1: point had been a friend of ours for a while, 222 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:05,160 Speaker 1: so I felt like I should look into it, since 223 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:07,560 Speaker 1: you know, it is kind of my area of the law. 224 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:11,160 Speaker 1: Glafira had just been arrested and so um, we had 225 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:14,000 Speaker 1: to go into jail to speak to her. But what 226 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:16,520 Speaker 1: we found out is is that she had really been 227 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:19,400 Speaker 1: arrested for tax evasion, sort of like al capolm and 228 00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 1: the government couldn't get them, you know, for organized crime. 229 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 1: They just followed the money, and in Gulfira's case, the 230 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 1: government was able to follow the money. By now, after 231 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 1: living in Sand's Point for years, had you come to 232 00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:33,840 Speaker 1: suspect lap and Carlos might be art thieves? I did 233 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:37,040 Speaker 1: not suspect anything. They did seem to be very successful. 234 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:40,360 Speaker 1: But it was extremely shocking, and you know, and it's 235 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:43,640 Speaker 1: shocking whenever you hear about anybody being arrested, but certainly 236 00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:46,600 Speaker 1: a very nice woman in her you know, later fifties. 237 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:51,720 Speaker 1: Like Fra Brian visited Glafira in prison soon after her arrest. 238 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 1: It was a sobering moment for the family attorney who 239 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:58,720 Speaker 1: had come to know Carlos and Fia. Well, you go 240 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:00,960 Speaker 1: in and it's very different goal to get in, and 241 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:03,720 Speaker 1: Glafira had just been arrested, and in fact, she didn't 242 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:06,240 Speaker 1: have enough money for shoes because they take your shoes 243 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 1: away and you need a commissary account then to buy shoes, 244 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 1: and so she was wearing paper slippers and it was very, 245 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:14,640 Speaker 1: very distraught, you know, just didn't know what was going 246 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:17,320 Speaker 1: to go on Carlo's head, you know, fled and so 247 00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 1: her daughter, her young daughter, is on the outside with 248 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:22,120 Speaker 1: no parents. I mean solely was maybe twenty years old, 249 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:26,240 Speaker 1: maybe nineteen years old at this time. It's hard to 250 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:30,600 Speaker 1: overstate just how lucky Glafira was to have such a 251 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:34,240 Speaker 1: family friend who was an experienced attorney at this moment 252 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:39,240 Speaker 1: in her life. After she was arrested, I offered to help, 253 00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 1: largely on a pro bono basis, because all of her 254 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:46,480 Speaker 1: assets had been seized at that point. Basically, what we 255 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 1: were able to do is explain to Glafira how this 256 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:51,680 Speaker 1: was going to play out that the government had, you know, 257 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:54,560 Speaker 1: a strong case on the tax evasion charges and that 258 00:15:54,640 --> 00:16:00,240 Speaker 1: carried very significant penalties. Once behind bars, the first order 259 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:03,080 Speaker 1: of business was for a judge to determine whether ba 260 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 1: Rosalas was a flight risk. We put together, I thought 261 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 1: a very persuasive case that CFA you know, had dual citizenship, 262 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:15,080 Speaker 1: a boyfriend with a home into the Dominican Republic, ties 263 00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 1: I believe to spain, foreign bank accounts, a lot of liquidity, 264 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:22,080 Speaker 1: a lot of assets, you know. At the time, and 265 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:25,600 Speaker 1: I'll say it was by no means certain that she 266 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:28,920 Speaker 1: would be detained because on the other side of the coin, 267 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:31,960 Speaker 1: I mean, she's never had a criminal case before. She was, 268 00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:35,520 Speaker 1: you know, maybe fifty something, your old woman with a 269 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:39,120 Speaker 1: daughter here in the United States. And so the defense 270 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:41,400 Speaker 1: made an argument, a strong argument that hey, you know, 271 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:43,520 Speaker 1: she's not going to go anywhere. Why would she go anywhere? 272 00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:46,640 Speaker 1: She's got all these ties. But thankfully for us, the 273 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:49,440 Speaker 1: judge detained her. And although I can't say for certain, 274 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:53,720 Speaker 1: I would think that being detained would weigh on someone 275 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:56,560 Speaker 1: and make them more likely to want to cooperate and 276 00:16:56,560 --> 00:16:59,520 Speaker 1: tell us what really happened. The judge said, no, I'm 277 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:01,520 Speaker 1: going to keep you detained because I think you you 278 00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:04,840 Speaker 1: are a flight risk, and so you know, that was it. 279 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:07,399 Speaker 1: She she went back into the m c C or 280 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:09,680 Speaker 1: the m d C, one of the two facilities that 281 00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:16,199 Speaker 1: are used. Yeah, you don't want to be there, trust me. 282 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:19,000 Speaker 1: She was not in the most difficult spot where like 283 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:22,399 Speaker 1: the terrorists and burning made off go. But no, you don't. 284 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:24,080 Speaker 1: You know, you don't want to spend any time there. 285 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 1: If you can, if you can help it. A few 286 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:33,119 Speaker 1: months in prison was all Gafa needed. The con was 287 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:36,159 Speaker 1: over and there was no one worth protecting. At the 288 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:41,919 Speaker 1: cost of sacrificing her freedom, Gafara decided to cooperate, and 289 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:47,359 Speaker 1: she provided information about Carlos and about Patia, and after 290 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:49,639 Speaker 1: it was clear that Gla was telling the truth, the 291 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:54,760 Speaker 1: government agreed to release her on bail. Rosales spilled the 292 00:17:55,000 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 1: entire story to investigators. In September two thirteen, she pled 293 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:04,440 Speaker 1: guilty to nine counts, including one count of money laundering, 294 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:08,080 Speaker 1: one count of wire fraud, and three counts of falsifying 295 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:13,000 Speaker 1: income tax returns. She had pocketed twenty six million dollars 296 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:18,520 Speaker 1: and paid no Texas. Despite her testimony, Fia was facing 297 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:22,399 Speaker 1: as much as nine years in prison. But this was 298 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:26,040 Speaker 1: only the bail hearing. The sentencing would come much later, 299 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:30,520 Speaker 1: you know, as we later learned, because of her cooperation, 300 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:33,840 Speaker 1: really only because of her cooperation, we've got the two 301 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:38,160 Speaker 1: Burgantino's brothers and Paisian you know, involved, and that really 302 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:42,680 Speaker 1: broke down the door, okay, to a wealth of information 303 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:48,440 Speaker 1: that only came from her. But as you know most 304 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:50,800 Speaker 1: people know, Pai Sian. As soon as you heard that 305 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:53,720 Speaker 1: we were on his tail, took off to China, a 306 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:57,840 Speaker 1: country that does not extradite its own nationals. I'm personally 307 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:02,040 Speaker 1: much more upset with the Spanish court's decision to non 308 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:11,040 Speaker 1: extradite the Brigantinos brothers. Amazingly, from a criminal standpoint, things 309 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:15,119 Speaker 1: were looking good for Ann Friedman. If we thought that 310 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:17,840 Speaker 1: we could prove beyond a reasonable doubt twelve people that 311 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:21,680 Speaker 1: other people knew the aspects of the scheme, the critical 312 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:25,320 Speaker 1: aspects of the scheme, then we would have brought a case. 313 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:28,280 Speaker 1: But you know, you've got to have proof. You've got 314 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:31,159 Speaker 1: to have proof that's admissible in court that you know 315 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:34,760 Speaker 1: someone who was selling the paintings, whether it's fa as 316 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:37,760 Speaker 1: the consigner or and you also have to prove that 317 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:40,800 Speaker 1: she knows that they are fake. So you know, here 318 00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 1: you're dealing with a situation where a freedman's first point 319 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:46,840 Speaker 1: of contact, Lafia is lying to her about the provenance. 320 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:50,080 Speaker 1: And again the provenance has elements of it that have 321 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:52,760 Speaker 1: elements of truth. You know, Sorryo is a real person. 322 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:55,960 Speaker 1: Herbert was a real person. It is actually the case 323 00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:58,600 Speaker 1: that a lot of art is found, you know from 324 00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:01,879 Speaker 1: time to time. What we did in this case was 325 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:04,840 Speaker 1: we took it as far as we thought the evidence 326 00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:14,560 Speaker 1: that we had would take it. FA had done her 327 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:18,560 Speaker 1: part and broken the case wide open for investigators. The 328 00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 1: bergen Tino's brothers fled the United States for Spain, a 329 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:26,080 Speaker 1: country beyond the reach of US extradition. The artist patient 330 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:29,960 Speaker 1: Quan hurriedly returned home to China, another country out of 331 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:33,600 Speaker 1: reach from U S authorities. That left only Michael Hammer 332 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:40,040 Speaker 1: and Ann Friedman. Neither would be prosecuted on criminal charges 333 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:44,360 Speaker 1: or simply wasn't enough proof, but both were still subject 334 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:47,840 Speaker 1: to civil suits, where a jury only needed to conclude 335 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:51,480 Speaker 1: that a defendant was more than likely to have committed 336 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:56,879 Speaker 1: a crime. Monetary settlements from civil suits could inflict their 337 00:20:56,920 --> 00:21:00,959 Speaker 1: own kind of severe punishment. The fear of such verdicts 338 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:05,600 Speaker 1: had led the Knobler to settle with Pierre Legrange. As 339 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:09,080 Speaker 1: for the Souls, their showdown with Ann Friedman and the 340 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:15,639 Speaker 1: Kndler was about to begin. Some three dozen journalists, including 341 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:19,240 Speaker 1: our own Michael Schneyerson, who were bent over their notepads 342 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:23,960 Speaker 1: that day in the classically high ceiling, oak paneled courtroom. 343 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:27,760 Speaker 1: The trial began on a Monday in January two thousand sixteen. 344 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:31,320 Speaker 1: The list of names who weren't present in court that 345 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:36,200 Speaker 1: day was almost as interesting as who was. Lafara Rosalee 346 00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:40,560 Speaker 1: wasn't there. Having served three months in jail before admitting 347 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:44,440 Speaker 1: her guilt, she was now agonizing over what further sentence 348 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:47,520 Speaker 1: she would have to serve, and wondering how she would 349 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:51,639 Speaker 1: come up with eighty million dollars in compensation for her victims. 350 00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:58,560 Speaker 1: The Bergen Tino's brothers were still in Spain, Quan was 351 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:03,679 Speaker 1: in China. Even Mike Hammer was absent in court. Hammer 352 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:06,960 Speaker 1: had not appeared once from behind the Knodler doors since 353 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:12,240 Speaker 1: the gallery closed, nor granted any interviews. But after eighteen 354 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:15,880 Speaker 1: years or so of the forgery ring, Michael Hammer looked 355 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:19,160 Speaker 1: more and more like a key player, no less so 356 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:23,800 Speaker 1: than Ann Friedman, as much was told in a lawsuit 357 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:27,080 Speaker 1: filed by one of the victims, casino owner Frank for Tita, 358 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:30,000 Speaker 1: the third, who in two thousand eight bought a fake 359 00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:34,879 Speaker 1: Rothco for seven point two million dollars. Hammer, the complaint detailed, 360 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:37,920 Speaker 1: knew that Knodler bought the paintings from Rosale's for shock 361 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:41,000 Speaker 1: and the low prices and quickly resold them for enormous 362 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:46,800 Speaker 1: markups for Tita alleged quote in all, Knodler resold the 363 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:49,760 Speaker 1: Rosalves paintings for a total of sixty three point eight 364 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:54,600 Speaker 1: million dollars, realizing gross profits of approximately forty eight point 365 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:58,840 Speaker 1: seven million dollars. Hammer, acting on behalf of Nodler and 366 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:03,199 Speaker 1: his foundation, saw two of the tens of millions of 367 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:07,760 Speaker 1: dollars in profit be distributed largely to himself and Ann Friedman. 368 00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:19,480 Speaker 1: Through Friedman and Hammer had a meeting in the early 369 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:23,400 Speaker 1: days of the scandal, and a handwritten memo survived their 370 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:28,840 Speaker 1: talk to surface later in Fatita's complaint. It was unclear 371 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:31,879 Speaker 1: whether the notes were taken by Freedman or Hammer, but 372 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:36,879 Speaker 1: the sentiments were in technicolor discrete sources are my stock 373 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:40,000 Speaker 1: in trade. When one of the comments don't kill the 374 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:43,879 Speaker 1: goose that's laying the golden egg, went another. And I 375 00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:46,120 Speaker 1: am not going to change my way of doing business. 376 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:55,800 Speaker 1: If you were not comfortable, step away. And Friedman was 377 00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:58,240 Speaker 1: in the courtroom the day that The Soul's Child began. 378 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:03,119 Speaker 1: She sat quietly beside her lawyers, wreathed in her soft 379 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:07,480 Speaker 1: white curls, dressed in black, beige and gray, saying nothing. 380 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:10,920 Speaker 1: As the witnesses began to come forward, she too would 381 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:13,920 Speaker 1: be forced to testify if the trial went as planned. 382 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:19,120 Speaker 1: Luke Nichoas and Freedman's lawyer had a novel defense, as 383 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:23,120 Speaker 1: it turned out. He argued that the Doss were responsible 384 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:28,240 Speaker 1: for checking their paintings authenticity themselves. They were, after all, 385 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:33,720 Speaker 1: sophisticated art buyers. By that logic, Nikos suggested, the jury 386 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:36,840 Speaker 1: shouldn't blame Noldler for selling the Doss their fake art. 387 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:39,959 Speaker 1: The customers were the ones to blame for buying it. 388 00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:45,120 Speaker 1: As for Anne, she was a salesperson, not an expert, 389 00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:49,400 Speaker 1: they declared. She was just doing her job, selling paintings 390 00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:54,679 Speaker 1: and earning profits for the gallery. Here's Luke Nichos with Anne. 391 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:58,720 Speaker 1: I certainly wanted to believe, but and I looked at 392 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:02,000 Speaker 1: the evidence and where the evidence and what the evidence 393 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,159 Speaker 1: showed to me separate and apart from what Anne was 394 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:08,200 Speaker 1: telling me was emails from a guy like David an 395 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:12,359 Speaker 1: Fam or the most significant experts and abstract expressionism. What 396 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:16,040 Speaker 1: did David an Fem say about these works? He wrote 397 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:18,359 Speaker 1: an email in May of two thousand and eight to 398 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:21,840 Speaker 1: Jack Flamm from the Dadalist Foundation, and that email said, 399 00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:25,400 Speaker 1: I can't think of any reason to deem this newman 400 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:30,280 Speaker 1: from the Resolves collection. This newman inauthentic. He went on 401 00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:33,240 Speaker 1: to say in the same email, I've seen the Krasners, 402 00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:35,880 Speaker 1: I've seen the Pollux, the roth Codes, the Clients and Stills, 403 00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:41,720 Speaker 1: and I believe in these works. Now he acknowledged that 404 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:45,440 Speaker 1: the story was murky, acknowledged that the ownership was unknown. 405 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,000 Speaker 1: But the reality is I saw an email like that 406 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:50,119 Speaker 1: from David and Fam, and I thought, if David and 407 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:52,960 Speaker 1: Fem saying that, who am I the lawyer without this expertise? 408 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:56,800 Speaker 1: Let me dig further. I think it's important to understand 409 00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:00,359 Speaker 1: what I concluded about whether there are authentic or not? 410 00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:03,720 Speaker 1: Wasn't the point. My point is I had no expertise 411 00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:07,040 Speaker 1: whether they were authentic or not. The core question always 412 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:11,639 Speaker 1: always always was what did Ann Friedman believe and what 413 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:13,919 Speaker 1: did she have reason to believe based in the facts. 414 00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:21,960 Speaker 1: Early in the trial, attorneys for the plaintiffs presented a 415 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:25,600 Speaker 1: fascinating exhibit to the court, the doss eight point three 416 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:29,880 Speaker 1: million dollar fake Rothco. Thing I remember about it being 417 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:33,560 Speaker 1: physically in the courtroom the most is that the defendants 418 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:36,600 Speaker 1: immediately wanted a sidebar with the judge because they felt 419 00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:42,720 Speaker 1: that the painting smelled new. This is the Dissillis attorneys again. 420 00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:48,520 Speaker 1: I think the issue was, like all artwork that's transported responsibly, 421 00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:51,760 Speaker 1: it was in a wooden crate, so that would was 422 00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:54,800 Speaker 1: just secured with screws, and the crate got unscrewed and 423 00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:57,520 Speaker 1: it creates that kind of would smell in the air, 424 00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:03,800 Speaker 1: which made the paint smell like fresh wood. And so 425 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:07,479 Speaker 1: they felt it was prejudicial that the painting would smell 426 00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:12,479 Speaker 1: so obviously like fresh and the judge had to go 427 00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:16,919 Speaker 1: over the and smell the painting to assess, and he was, 428 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:18,840 Speaker 1: like he said on the record, he was like, I 429 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 1: can't believe I'm going over to smell the painting. Trudge over. 430 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:26,879 Speaker 1: He smelled it, and I think they did move it. Yeah, yeah, 431 00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:31,600 Speaker 1: but they left it out, but I thought, I remember 432 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:35,800 Speaker 1: it was very dramatic. We carried the painting over someplace 433 00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:38,560 Speaker 1: and you know, there was like a hush in the room. 434 00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:42,480 Speaker 1: Were like a gas because people in the art world 435 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:45,000 Speaker 1: are so used to such delicate handling and white glove 436 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:47,560 Speaker 1: handling of works like this, and you know it was 437 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:49,119 Speaker 1: a fake, so that we just picked it up with 438 00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:51,720 Speaker 1: our bare hands. We were not professional. There was the 439 00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:55,280 Speaker 1: other moment, the funny moment with the painting, when Pulkari 440 00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:57,840 Speaker 1: said on the stand, like I think it's supposed to 441 00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:00,959 Speaker 1: be the other way, you know, like this upside. Steven 442 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:05,600 Speaker 1: was one of the two quote unquote experts who Noler 443 00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:08,520 Speaker 1: had hired and paid to look at some of these works, 444 00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:12,000 Speaker 1: and when he testified about the Rothco, he testified that 445 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:14,840 Speaker 1: it did it couldn't usually tell with Rothco's which weighs up. 446 00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:22,600 Speaker 1: A day or two into the trial, the dess took 447 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:25,520 Speaker 1: the stand to tell the story of their fake Rothco. 448 00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:33,280 Speaker 1: Eleanor was emotional, Domenico fierce. Both were heartfelt, taking breaks 449 00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:35,919 Speaker 1: to chat up the press, but they would find themselves 450 00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:39,920 Speaker 1: subject to the occasional bit of snarkiness for bringing rich 451 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:45,080 Speaker 1: people's problems into the courtroom with the doles done. On 452 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:49,440 Speaker 1: cross examination, the trial turned to Ann Friedman's list of 453 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:53,960 Speaker 1: eleven experts whose names she had used to authenticate her paintings. 454 00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:57,760 Speaker 1: None of the eleven had wished to be on that list. 455 00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:03,040 Speaker 1: What immer urged was what we showed that trial with 456 00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:08,320 Speaker 1: the witness testimony, that there were no experts who authenticated 457 00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:12,040 Speaker 1: these paintings. For another, it just didn't happen. You know, 458 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:15,040 Speaker 1: the story that the defendants were selling that they believed 459 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:17,480 Speaker 1: the works were real and the experts authenticated, that was 460 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:23,720 Speaker 1: just absolutely rebutted, totally debunked. With respect to David Ampham, 461 00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:29,400 Speaker 1: he never was shown a Rothco despite being the world's 462 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:32,880 Speaker 1: leading expert in Rothko, I don't think it's a coincidence 463 00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:35,760 Speaker 1: that he was never shown any of the Rothkos, not one. 464 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:41,280 Speaker 1: Not only had I not seen the Dissoli painting, I've 465 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:44,680 Speaker 1: never even been in the same moon with it. What 466 00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:49,120 Speaker 1: I got was a package with a transparencive of painting, 467 00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:55,040 Speaker 1: a note for Man dated July, and I'm pretty certainly 468 00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:58,040 Speaker 1: this was two thousand and five. I picked it up, 469 00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:01,640 Speaker 1: looks of the transparen so if we're about twenty seconds 470 00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:04,440 Speaker 1: and put it in the file filed it away and 471 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:07,400 Speaker 1: did not look at it again until then. That's the 472 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:12,000 Speaker 1: time of the trial. It sounds as if Anne was 473 00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:16,560 Speaker 1: doing her best to circulate your name and your approval 474 00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:20,120 Speaker 1: of this painting. Is that true? Yes, it's true. I 475 00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:23,200 Speaker 1: didn't know of the time. I have to say that 476 00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:26,200 Speaker 1: from the perspective of the present, I felt I was 477 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:32,000 Speaker 1: being manipulated and I don't take comfy to that. And 478 00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:35,240 Speaker 1: when I saw the letter, which had a list of 479 00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:38,800 Speaker 1: people who had seen the dissle a paintings article Christopher 480 00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:43,640 Speaker 1: off Go, followed by myself, I was absolutely shocked. I 481 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,040 Speaker 1: couldn't believe that my name had been put in a 482 00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:50,520 Speaker 1: letter without my knowing, it, without my approval, and effectively 483 00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:56,160 Speaker 1: so any buyer. It could be constituted as a kind 484 00:30:56,200 --> 00:31:04,880 Speaker 1: of authentication by Foxing. As the trial entered its second 485 00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:09,320 Speaker 1: week on February two thousand sixteen, a sense of excitement 486 00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:15,880 Speaker 1: permeated the courtroom. After all this warm up, an Friedman 487 00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:20,480 Speaker 1: was due to testify at last. Oddly, however, the judge's 488 00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:24,720 Speaker 1: chair remained empty as the ten am hour came and went. 489 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:29,520 Speaker 1: At last, the judge reappeared and announced in open court 490 00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:35,920 Speaker 1: that a settlement had been reached from the Soles grins 491 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:41,040 Speaker 1: their gambit had paid off. As for Ann Friedman's lawyers, 492 00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:45,560 Speaker 1: they looked relieved. Whatever they had agreed to pay, it 493 00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:49,520 Speaker 1: was probably less than the million dollar RICO payment that 494 00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:55,560 Speaker 1: the Soles were demanding. The trial, however, would continue because 495 00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:58,400 Speaker 1: Michael Hammer and his eight thirty one foundation were not 496 00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:04,120 Speaker 1: yet off the hook. Hammer's chief financial officer testified that Hammer, 497 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:09,480 Speaker 1: her boss, had awarded himself some twenty luxury cars, including 498 00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:13,400 Speaker 1: a four hundred eighty two dollar Rose Royce and a 499 00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:18,280 Speaker 1: five dollar Mercedes. That was all in addition to a 500 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:21,800 Speaker 1: four hundred thousand dollar salary he paid himself from his 501 00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:27,160 Speaker 1: Knodler piggy bank. Anne was scheduled to testify that Wednesday 502 00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:29,880 Speaker 1: against her former boss about how much the two of 503 00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:33,160 Speaker 1: them had profited from selling forty plus fake paintings that 504 00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:36,840 Speaker 1: had come through the Knodler. Once again, the judge and 505 00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:41,840 Speaker 1: counselor has disappeared behind closed doors and emerged appearing satisfied 506 00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:45,440 Speaker 1: a private settlement had been reached between the Desoles and 507 00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:54,160 Speaker 1: A thirty one. The trial was finally over some weeks later, 508 00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:58,840 Speaker 1: and agreed to speak to the press. From the start, 509 00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:02,440 Speaker 1: Friedman said she had regarded the David Herbert collection as 510 00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:06,080 Speaker 1: a quote puzzle to be solved. She had tried to 511 00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:10,280 Speaker 1: extract more information from glyph Era every time Rosalee arrived 512 00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:14,800 Speaker 1: with another painting. Only with Rosalee's confession had Anne realized 513 00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:19,920 Speaker 1: how thoroughly and classically duped she'd been. Or so she said, 514 00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:24,200 Speaker 1: when you ask a con artist a question, they say, ah, ha, 515 00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:26,480 Speaker 1: I see what you mean. Let me check it out, 516 00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:31,680 Speaker 1: and miraculously they have the answers and recalled. She called 517 00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:35,840 Speaker 1: herself a perfect mark and added I have never deliberately 518 00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:40,560 Speaker 1: done something wrong, which is to say knowingly. But then 519 00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:45,760 Speaker 1: she added a jarring remark, I am terribly sorry for 520 00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:49,720 Speaker 1: anybody hurt or damaged. But let me be clear, this 521 00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:54,000 Speaker 1: is about works of art. I didn't slay anybody's firstborn. 522 00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:58,800 Speaker 1: We have to have some perspective on suffering. Or as 523 00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:02,400 Speaker 1: a sympathetic history Orient apparently told her, we all need 524 00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:12,440 Speaker 1: to get over it more. Aren't fraud in a minute. 525 00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:17,800 Speaker 1: In any sport, there are leaders and journeymen. Oh what 526 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:20,960 Speaker 1: a finish by jess McDonald. But on this season of 527 00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:24,600 Speaker 1: Long Shot, there's no story quite like Jessica McDonald's Ran 528 00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:26,920 Speaker 1: Away from Home when I was seventeen years old. My 529 00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:30,800 Speaker 1: recollections are mostly trying to find her. I wasn't just scared, 530 00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:34,640 Speaker 1: I was scared for my life. On Payback, The Charlotte Observer, 531 00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:38,000 Speaker 1: Raleigh News and Observer, McClatchy Studios, and I Heart Radio 532 00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:41,480 Speaker 1: share for the first time her story. She's had some 533 00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:44,240 Speaker 1: very difficult moments in her life, but there's something inside 534 00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:47,239 Speaker 1: the great athletes that is why they're great. Thank God 535 00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:50,040 Speaker 1: for sports. That was my escape. And then I find 536 00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:52,920 Speaker 1: out I'm pregnant with my son. An incredible journey to 537 00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:58,279 Speaker 1: a pinnacle of sports. That's it. I need to show 538 00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:00,800 Speaker 1: an example for my son. That to what inspires me 539 00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:04,719 Speaker 1: day in and day out. Payback coming March fifteen. UM 540 00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:07,799 Speaker 1: I hurt Radio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get 541 00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:16,360 Speaker 1: your podcasts. He's sending a message anyone anywhere in the world, 542 00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:20,320 Speaker 1: I can get you and it will hurt. It was 543 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:24,640 Speaker 1: a plot straight out of James Bond. An assassination carried 544 00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:28,200 Speaker 1: out with the world's most toxic chemical weapon. The victim 545 00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:32,000 Speaker 1: was Kim Jong Nam. He was the firstborn son of 546 00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:36,760 Speaker 1: North Korea's supreme leader. He should have been the successor. Instead, 547 00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:39,840 Speaker 1: he'd be murdered in one of the most brazen and 548 00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:43,840 Speaker 1: bizarre political plots of all time. Join us as we 549 00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:48,800 Speaker 1: investigate the potential motives. Kim Dragon actually had several reasons 550 00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:53,520 Speaker 1: for wanting to assassinate his older brother, the family backstabbing. 551 00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:57,560 Speaker 1: There's a lot of clothing and dagger stuff about Jim 552 00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:02,440 Speaker 1: John and the petty paranoid in North Korea. When somebody 553 00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:07,480 Speaker 1: challenges you, that challenger must be eliminated. Behind the most 554 00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:11,680 Speaker 1: audacious assassination of the twenty one century. Listen to Big 555 00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:14,759 Speaker 1: Brother on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast or 556 00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:18,200 Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. Look for your children's eyes 557 00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:21,320 Speaker 1: to see the true magic of a forest. It's a 558 00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:24,560 Speaker 1: storybook world for them. You look and see a tree. 559 00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:27,879 Speaker 1: They see the wrinkled face of a wizard with arms 560 00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:31,719 Speaker 1: outstretched to the sky. They see treasure in pebbles, They 561 00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:34,719 Speaker 1: see a windy path that could lead to adventure, and 562 00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:39,080 Speaker 1: they see you. They're fearless. Guide. Is this fascinating world? 563 00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:42,320 Speaker 1: Find a forest near you and start exploring it. Discover 564 00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:44,640 Speaker 1: the forest dot Org brought to you by the United 565 00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:48,200 Speaker 1: States Forest Service and the ad Council. The de Selos 566 00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:51,800 Speaker 1: lawyers felt pleased they've gotten their clients the outcome they wanted, 567 00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:55,680 Speaker 1: but the settlement allowed Freedman to crow and declared she 568 00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:58,000 Speaker 1: would have gladly had the trial go on and was 569 00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:00,440 Speaker 1: sure that jury would have found her innocent only on 570 00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:04,200 Speaker 1: a technicality. The Dissolas lawyers roll their eyes at that 571 00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:08,680 Speaker 1: things got resolved before the journy got to reach its verdict. 572 00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:12,239 Speaker 1: But you know, we did speak to the jurors afterwards. 573 00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:16,279 Speaker 1: They were completely convinced that she knew exactly what she 574 00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:21,200 Speaker 1: was doing. Despite the fact that a jury never actually 575 00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:24,440 Speaker 1: ruled on the case in court, the Disos and their 576 00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:28,799 Speaker 1: lawyers saw the outcome as an overwhelming victory. I think 577 00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:31,960 Speaker 1: that you're looking, maybe you're suggesting that you need a 578 00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:35,359 Speaker 1: verdict through your story. I don't think so. I think 579 00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:37,520 Speaker 1: you need to tell the story and put it out 580 00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:40,240 Speaker 1: there to show what happened. And they did a hundred 581 00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:43,520 Speaker 1: of that. And it's not a coincidence that the five 582 00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:48,240 Speaker 1: cases that were pending, you know at the time we settled, 583 00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:52,279 Speaker 1: also all settled and no one went to trial. You know, 584 00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:55,160 Speaker 1: I had to say, you know, nod and Freedman, and 585 00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:58,600 Speaker 1: Freedman didn't step up to defend themselves and go to trial. 586 00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:02,200 Speaker 1: On any of those five cases followed. The rulings made 587 00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:06,080 Speaker 1: it crystal clear that you know, collectors have the right 588 00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:10,080 Speaker 1: to reasonably rely on reputable galleries, and that's the reputable 589 00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:13,600 Speaker 1: galleries obligation to come forward with what they know and 590 00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:17,440 Speaker 1: what they don't know about works that they're selling. As 591 00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:20,680 Speaker 1: attorney Luke Nikos felt the settlement only confirmed the case 592 00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:24,960 Speaker 1: that he'd argued. Not only was she not prosecuted, but 593 00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:30,279 Speaker 1: when the superseding indictment came out, in which Glafira Resolis 594 00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:33,640 Speaker 1: had told her story to the federal government, it was 595 00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:38,000 Speaker 1: clear from that indictment that Anne was not implicated at 596 00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:43,320 Speaker 1: all in the underlying crime. Fear had every reason to 597 00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:46,720 Speaker 1: throw in under the bus. Her boyfriend had every reason 598 00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:50,000 Speaker 1: to throw in under the bus. The painter did, everyone did, 599 00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:53,919 Speaker 1: and at least from that superseding indictment, it was clear 600 00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:57,840 Speaker 1: they didn't. And when you look at all of the information, 601 00:38:57,960 --> 00:38:59,880 Speaker 1: not just pieces of it, and you put it to 602 00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:03,640 Speaker 1: other and you ask, did Anne believe these works were 603 00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:06,520 Speaker 1: fake at the time, I just don't think you can 604 00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:09,080 Speaker 1: get there. You can say she made mistakes, but the 605 00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:12,080 Speaker 1: prosecutor needs to prove beyond that, and I don't think 606 00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:20,520 Speaker 1: they could. It had now been three years since was arrested, 607 00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:26,520 Speaker 1: three birthdays, three Christmas, is out on bail, nervously awaiting 608 00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:31,560 Speaker 1: her sentence on nine federal charges. During that time, Rosalez 609 00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:34,840 Speaker 1: had broken no laws and had helped prosecutors to the 610 00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:38,400 Speaker 1: extent that she could to track down the Bergantino's brothers. 611 00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:43,120 Speaker 1: They remained at large due to Spain's changing extradition rules. 612 00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:48,680 Speaker 1: In weighing her sentence, judge Faiala had listened to as 613 00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:52,400 Speaker 1: story of physical and emotional abuse at the hands of 614 00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:58,160 Speaker 1: Carlos and found it credible. As Jason Hernandez suggested, the 615 00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:00,640 Speaker 1: judge had seen a culprit left old in the bag 616 00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:05,040 Speaker 1: while the rest of the ring went free. Enough was enough. 617 00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:09,840 Speaker 1: In January two thousand seventeen, the judge sentenced her to 618 00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:15,200 Speaker 1: time already served eighty two days. Lafra was a free woman. 619 00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:22,280 Speaker 1: She was also broke. Their lives are very difficult because 620 00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:26,360 Speaker 1: everything that they had could be traceable to you know, 621 00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:31,440 Speaker 1: their art business, which was fraudulent or infected with frauds. 622 00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:33,960 Speaker 1: So everything was seized. Their home was seized, all of 623 00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:36,360 Speaker 1: their money was seized, all of the art was seized, 624 00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:39,239 Speaker 1: and so far in her late fifties, had to build 625 00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:43,799 Speaker 1: herself back up. So she now works part time as 626 00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:47,160 Speaker 1: a hostess in a restaurant in her sixties and as 627 00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:50,960 Speaker 1: a waitress from time to time, and solely is involved 628 00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:54,400 Speaker 1: in the art business and is building her own business 629 00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:58,000 Speaker 1: and knows how to do it right, and is supporting 630 00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:00,600 Speaker 1: her mother. And so you have of the story of 631 00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:03,640 Speaker 1: a daughter supporting her mother and their father is still 632 00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:07,279 Speaker 1: very much, very antagonistic. Carlos is very antagonistic, but he's 633 00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:10,200 Speaker 1: he's off in Spain. The government, as you probably tried 634 00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:18,520 Speaker 1: to extradite him and was unsuccessful in doing so. The 635 00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:22,360 Speaker 1: fall of the Knodler Gallery would have rippling effects throughout 636 00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:27,440 Speaker 1: the art world. Gretchen Deep and Corn described the seismic 637 00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:32,319 Speaker 1: shift and trust between client and gallery. I think it's 638 00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:36,640 Speaker 1: terrible for the art market. For example, right after the 639 00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:41,200 Speaker 1: first revelations and the New York Times story, the dealer, 640 00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:45,640 Speaker 1: our current dealer, began getting phone calls about, oh, dear, 641 00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:47,960 Speaker 1: it is the work that I bought? Is it real? 642 00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:52,000 Speaker 1: And it wasn't only our dealer, it was others. And 643 00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:58,240 Speaker 1: then all of the dealers are under suspicion now because 644 00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:04,200 Speaker 1: it's never been a yield that has seemed entirely squeaky 645 00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:09,120 Speaker 1: clean anyway, because things happen, you know, people get better. 646 00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:11,840 Speaker 1: One person gets a good deal, the next person doesn't. 647 00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:15,480 Speaker 1: In they're they're mad, and so I mean, nobody trusts 648 00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:19,719 Speaker 1: anybody in this kind of world anyway, in some way, 649 00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:25,200 Speaker 1: but this made it a hundred times worse. David and 650 00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:29,400 Speaker 1: fam didn't hold back in his blistering opinion of the 651 00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:34,520 Speaker 1: Knodler scandal. In hindsight, I think the whole Knodler story 652 00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:37,239 Speaker 1: will go down as one of the worst scandals of 653 00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:42,680 Speaker 1: its kind, indeed probably the most shameful for largo in 654 00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:46,759 Speaker 1: the annals of modern art. What could prove even more 655 00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:51,200 Speaker 1: interesting is a verdict of history upon whoever the guards 656 00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:55,160 Speaker 1: as being of the epicenter of the sordid saga from 657 00:42:55,239 --> 00:43:06,040 Speaker 1: first to last. Having followed the fall of the Knodler 658 00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:09,480 Speaker 1: Gallery from the first revelations of forgery, through the trial 659 00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:12,960 Speaker 1: and the half dozen settlements, I'd come to realize that 660 00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:16,640 Speaker 1: this case was far from a once in a lifetime phenomenon. 661 00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:22,160 Speaker 1: As we've heard from countless artists, dealers, and collectors, the 662 00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:26,360 Speaker 1: art market has been and remains a target rich environment 663 00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:30,120 Speaker 1: for con artists willing to risk prison time for a 664 00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:35,520 Speaker 1: big score. There's the fascinating case of Intego Philbrick, a 665 00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:40,320 Speaker 1: young and charming London based dealer who oversold fractional shares 666 00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:43,440 Speaker 1: of works by hot new artists in a made off 667 00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:47,800 Speaker 1: like Ponzi scheme. There's also the case of aging artist 668 00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:53,040 Speaker 1: Robert Indiana, creator of the iconic Love Works, whose Coterie 669 00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:55,800 Speaker 1: of Assistance on an island off the coast of Maine, 670 00:43:56,400 --> 00:44:00,359 Speaker 1: would be accused of squeezing windfall profits from him, going 671 00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:06,240 Speaker 1: so far as to employ an automatic signature signing machine. Finally, 672 00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:09,160 Speaker 1: there was my own brush with art fraud, in which 673 00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:12,319 Speaker 1: a painting I purchased from an artist I adored through 674 00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:15,920 Speaker 1: his longtime dealer, Mary Boone would end up pitting us 675 00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:19,040 Speaker 1: against each other in a bitter legal battle I never 676 00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:23,360 Speaker 1: could have anticipated. We'll talk about all of those cases 677 00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:55,800 Speaker 1: in our final episode of Art Fraud. Art Fraud is 678 00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:59,400 Speaker 1: brought to you by I Heart Radio and Cavalry Audio. 679 00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:05,200 Speaker 1: Our executive producers are Matt del Piano, Keegan Rosenberger, Andy Turner, myself, 680 00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:10,160 Speaker 1: and Michael Shnayerson. We're produced by Brandon Morgan and Zach McNeice. 681 00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:15,000 Speaker 1: Zach also edited and mixed this episode. Lindsay Hoffman is 682 00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:37,040 Speaker 1: our managing producer. Our writer is Michael Schneyerson. Hi everyone, 683 00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:39,560 Speaker 1: it's Katie Curic and I'm back with a new season 684 00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:43,279 Speaker 1: of my podcast Next Question. I'm bringing you some really 685 00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:48,040 Speaker 1: meaty conversations about important topics like how to support working 686 00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:51,359 Speaker 1: moms who are at their breaking point, what's being done 687 00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:54,680 Speaker 1: to help long COVID sufferers, and where can women turn 688 00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:57,560 Speaker 1: when they fear they might have a drinking problem. I 689 00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:02,160 Speaker 1: might even dive into the metaverse, whatever that is. Subscribe 690 00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:04,680 Speaker 1: and listen to Next Question with Katie correct on the 691 00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:08,399 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get 692 00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:15,440 Speaker 1: your podcasts. If you love true crime podcasts, you need 693 00:46:15,560 --> 00:46:20,080 Speaker 1: to check out True Crime Obsessed. Each week, hosts Patrick 694 00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:24,400 Speaker 1: and Jillian recap a true crime documentary everyone is talking about, 695 00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:27,360 Speaker 1: and they do it with humor, heart and just the 696 00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:30,080 Speaker 1: right amount of sass. When you go camping, you either 697 00:46:30,239 --> 00:46:32,960 Speaker 1: find the skull or you become the spy. That's the role. 698 00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:36,840 Speaker 1: Patrick and Jillian have covered everything from the Ted Bundy 699 00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:40,480 Speaker 1: tapes to Lula Rich, with plenty of art heists in between. 700 00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:45,839 Speaker 1: With over one million downloads and thirty thousand five star 701 00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:49,719 Speaker 1: reviews on Apple Podcasts. True Crime Obsessed is one of 702 00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:53,760 Speaker 1: the most popular true crime podcasts in the world. Find 703 00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:59,600 Speaker 1: True Crime Obsessed wherever you listen. I'm Emilia on this podcast. 704 00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:03,000 Speaker 1: I'm taking you on a search, a search for love, 705 00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:08,879 Speaker 1: hard working Latina, but there were other reasons I felt 706 00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:12,400 Speaker 1: like I couldn't always beat myself. My mom's in prison. 707 00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:16,479 Speaker 1: This is Crumbs, my love story. It's a show about 708 00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:18,200 Speaker 1: the things we set up for and the bits of 709 00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:21,600 Speaker 1: ourselves that make us who we are. Listen to Crumbs 710 00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:25,360 Speaker 1: on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 711 00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:26,440 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts.