WEBVTT - Why Were These Books Banned? 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.000 Guess what mango with I will So I can't remember 0:00:03.040 --> 0:00:05.080 if we've talked about this on the show before, but 0:00:05.080 --> 0:00:07.520 but you know what the Wicked Bible is, right, definitely, 0:00:07.720 --> 0:00:10.080 it's the Bible with that printing error that says, uh, 0:00:10.280 --> 0:00:14.720 thou shalt commit adultery instead of thou shalt not commit auldulter. Yeah, 0:00:14.720 --> 0:00:17.560 that one word. There's a slight difference in the meaning there. 0:00:17.640 --> 0:00:20.119 But I've always wanted to see one of these, and 0:00:20.360 --> 0:00:22.560 there are actually only a few left in the world 0:00:22.640 --> 0:00:25.080 right now, and it it took about a year for 0:00:25.160 --> 0:00:28.240 people to realize the error. But when King Charles the 0:00:28.280 --> 0:00:31.520 first caught on, he was livid. He decided to find 0:00:31.560 --> 0:00:34.479 the printers something like three hundred pounds. He had their 0:00:34.479 --> 0:00:38.840 printing licenses revoked and basically shame them out of their positions. 0:00:39.280 --> 0:00:42.080 And of course the book was immediately banned. There was 0:00:42.120 --> 0:00:45.600 this massive bonfire to collect and burn every copy of 0:00:45.640 --> 0:00:49.200 these so called Wicked Bibles, but somehow, I think ten 0:00:49.320 --> 0:00:52.280 or eleven copies managed to get through, and there of 0:00:52.320 --> 0:00:55.680 course insanely valuable now. And actually, there's one other thing 0:00:55.720 --> 0:00:58.760 I didn't realize about the book, that the adultery mistake 0:00:58.880 --> 0:01:01.640 wasn't the only air in the book. What else was 0:01:01.680 --> 0:01:04.880 wrong with it? According to the Washington Post and Deuteronomy five, 0:01:05.720 --> 0:01:08.880 it's supposed to say, behold, the Lord hath showed us 0:01:08.880 --> 0:01:12.480 his glory and his greatness, but instead it says, behold, 0:01:12.520 --> 0:01:15.560 our Lord has showed us his glory and his great arts. 0:01:17.720 --> 0:01:21.640 I mean, that does seem problematic and just like a 0:01:21.720 --> 0:01:24.160 little bit different than what it actually says, but it 0:01:24.200 --> 0:01:27.600 points to a bigger theory. So Biblical scholars used to 0:01:27.640 --> 0:01:30.000 think the Wicked Bible got its name because of one 0:01:30.160 --> 0:01:33.880 unfortunate printing air, But with this second mistake, it actually 0:01:33.920 --> 0:01:37.280 brings up the idea of sabotage. And there's all these 0:01:37.319 --> 0:01:40.320 great conspiracy theories about who could have caused it and 0:01:40.680 --> 0:01:43.080 who wanted to get these royal printers in trouble, and 0:01:43.120 --> 0:01:46.600 it it makes the Wicked story even more fun. So 0:01:46.680 --> 0:01:49.800 today's episode is about all the stories of banned books, 0:01:49.840 --> 0:01:54.160 you know, from political exposes to Ulysses two, Where's Waldo 0:01:54.280 --> 0:01:57.320 and how it got banned from prisons? So let's dive 0:01:57.360 --> 0:02:21.320 in m hei their podcast listeners, Welcome to Part Time Genius. 0:02:21.320 --> 0:02:23.520 I'm Will Pearson and is always I'm joined by my 0:02:23.520 --> 0:02:26.000 good friend Man guesh Ticketer and sitting on the other 0:02:26.080 --> 0:02:30.320 side of that soundproof glass proudly displaying his first edition 0:02:30.560 --> 0:02:35.880 Captain Underpant's book. That's our Palin producer, Tristan McNeil. So, 0:02:36.040 --> 0:02:38.280 I mean, I know, it's a cute gag from Tristan 0:02:38.320 --> 0:02:40.520 showing off how many Captain Underpan's books he has. But 0:02:40.960 --> 0:02:43.480 did you realize that in two thousand twelve, Captain Underpant's 0:02:43.520 --> 0:02:47.880 was actually the number one band book in America? No? Really, yeah, 0:02:48.080 --> 0:02:50.919 apparently the a l A or the American Library Association 0:02:50.960 --> 0:02:53.720 releases this annual list of the titles that were most 0:02:53.760 --> 0:02:57.000 challenged or banned at libraries and schools and um that year. 0:02:57.040 --> 0:02:59.600 Captain Underpan's actually beat out Fifty Shades of Gray for 0:02:59.639 --> 0:03:02.840 the time, as well as books like Thirteen Reasons Why, 0:03:03.000 --> 0:03:05.760 which you know some say glorified suicide. It also beat 0:03:05.800 --> 0:03:09.360 out classics like Brave New World and To Kill a Mockingbird. 0:03:10.080 --> 0:03:11.720 That said, I I do have to say the book 0:03:11.840 --> 0:03:15.280 does come with a warning on it that warns readers 0:03:15.280 --> 0:03:18.360 and parents of readers from the outset. It's a sturgeon 0:03:18.480 --> 0:03:21.360 General's warning, and he reads some material in this book 0:03:21.400 --> 0:03:24.280 might be considered offensive by those who don't wear underwear. 0:03:26.240 --> 0:03:28.960 That's a helpful warning. I mean, you can see how 0:03:29.000 --> 0:03:32.080 the word underpants might set off some alarm bells for parents, 0:03:32.120 --> 0:03:34.200 and it seems like it's going to be this rude 0:03:34.200 --> 0:03:36.920 book instead of actually a very sweet one. But you know, 0:03:37.080 --> 0:03:39.440 on the other hand, the word underpants is exactly why 0:03:39.520 --> 0:03:41.800 kids get excited to read the book. I mean, the 0:03:41.800 --> 0:03:44.160 only movie my parents banned me from watching was Ferris 0:03:44.120 --> 0:03:47.040 Bueller's Day Off, which I know, you know, but I 0:03:47.160 --> 0:03:50.160 still think it's weird. And obviously it's because my dad 0:03:50.160 --> 0:03:52.200 went to college at like thirteen or something and then 0:03:52.240 --> 0:03:54.720 failed out because he was working on this underground newspaper 0:03:54.800 --> 0:03:57.680 and playing in the Rolling Stones cover band and entering 0:03:57.840 --> 0:04:04.440 Jitterbug contest apparently, but ovisually he was doing everything except 0:04:04.440 --> 0:04:06.600 going to school. But my mom didn't want me to 0:04:06.600 --> 0:04:09.800 get any ideas from the movie. So did you ever 0:04:09.920 --> 0:04:12.240 actually get to see Ferris Bueller's Day Off? Yeah? I 0:04:12.240 --> 0:04:13.760 saw it like the weekend after it came out on 0:04:13.880 --> 0:04:16.720 VHS at my uncle's house. You know, it immediately became 0:04:16.760 --> 0:04:19.000 my favorite movie. Yeah, and it is a great movie. 0:04:19.040 --> 0:04:20.800 So I'm glad you finally got to see it, and 0:04:21.120 --> 0:04:23.520 I like that. We've already talked a little bit about 0:04:23.600 --> 0:04:26.520 Captain Underpant's one of my kids favorites, of course when 0:04:26.520 --> 0:04:28.680 they first discover it. But let me read you a 0:04:28.720 --> 0:04:30.960 few other children's books that have been banned that that 0:04:31.040 --> 0:04:33.320 actually kind of surprised me. And I'm going to kick 0:04:33.320 --> 0:04:35.480 it off with Winnie the Pooh, which oddly has been 0:04:35.520 --> 0:04:39.080 banned in a lot of countries. So is this because 0:04:39.080 --> 0:04:41.200 the piglet, Because I know Miss Peggy was banned in 0:04:41.200 --> 0:04:44.960 Saudi Arabia for I guess for just being a pig um. 0:04:45.000 --> 0:04:47.479 But actually, you know, before I let you go, I've 0:04:47.480 --> 0:04:49.800 got this tangent about pigs. Did you see that Pepper 0:04:49.839 --> 0:04:53.320 Pig was banned in China? Which is just so sad? 0:04:53.360 --> 0:04:55.360 But I did see this. This was just last week, right, 0:04:55.560 --> 0:04:58.360 I didn't actually see why it was banned. So friendly. 0:04:58.400 --> 0:05:00.680 The cartoon character has been, as those say, with like 0:05:00.839 --> 0:05:04.240 laziness and slackers and also gangsters for some reason, like 0:05:04.480 --> 0:05:08.200 people who are getting Pepper Pig tattoos, which makes no sense. 0:05:08.240 --> 0:05:11.599 But the countries instead asking its citizen institune into the 0:05:11.680 --> 0:05:17.880 government created alternative. It's called Little Pig Dodo. But I 0:05:17.920 --> 0:05:19.520 got you off, so tell me a little bit more 0:05:19.520 --> 0:05:22.880 about Winnie the Pooh. Well, you were right with one 0:05:22.880 --> 0:05:25.159 of the guesses, and that that's that Some Muslim nations 0:05:25.160 --> 0:05:27.560 have banned the book because of Piglet. But you know, 0:05:27.600 --> 0:05:30.960 according to the book's enthusiast site, Bookster, it has this 0:05:31.080 --> 0:05:34.080 long history of being banned. And when Winnie the Pooh 0:05:34.160 --> 0:05:37.720 first came out, some American and Polish leaders were outraged 0:05:37.800 --> 0:05:40.840 because talking animals can, I guess, be seen as an 0:05:40.839 --> 0:05:44.279 insult to God. But the more interesting thing, and something 0:05:44.360 --> 0:05:46.920 I hadn't thought about, was that the books are often 0:05:46.960 --> 0:05:49.919 banned in communist countries, and that's for a different reason. 0:05:49.960 --> 0:05:52.760 It's because the animals are seen as representing the seven 0:05:52.839 --> 0:05:55.600 deadly sins. So if you think about it, poo is 0:05:55.640 --> 0:05:58.839 a glutton, owl is too proud. I guess you've got 0:05:58.880 --> 0:06:02.440 Piglet who's in he is and or is of course slothful. 0:06:02.960 --> 0:06:06.280 Rabbit gets a little too angry or wrathful, and who 0:06:06.279 --> 0:06:07.919 does that leave? I guess that leads us with Tiger, 0:06:08.000 --> 0:06:10.240 who is I don't know, bouncy is that one of 0:06:10.240 --> 0:06:14.440 the seven deadly sent But the books are read as 0:06:14.520 --> 0:06:18.039 trying to inspire religion, which is of course problematic in 0:06:18.080 --> 0:06:21.320 communist nations. So I mean that makes sense. But what 0:06:21.600 --> 0:06:24.599 are some of the other surprises you found? All right, well, 0:06:24.720 --> 0:06:26.200 let's see the other ones that have on the list. 0:06:26.240 --> 0:06:28.400 Are you got Ferdinand the Bull that was banned for 0:06:28.480 --> 0:06:32.599 being too pacifists and Gandhi and Franklin Roosevelt loved it, 0:06:32.680 --> 0:06:37.960 and of course Hitler called it degenerate democratic propaganda. I mean, 0:06:38.000 --> 0:06:40.200 I feel like those quotes should be on the book jacket, right, like, 0:06:40.240 --> 0:06:42.839 if it's not part of Hitler's Children's book club, that 0:06:42.920 --> 0:06:46.680 feels like it's a good thing. But what else that 0:06:46.760 --> 0:06:49.719 idea of Hitler's children's book club? All right? Well, the 0:06:49.720 --> 0:06:52.279 one that surprised me the most. And you'll remember this 0:06:52.320 --> 0:06:54.800 from reading it to your kids as as like babies, 0:06:54.839 --> 0:06:58.080 even as brown Bear, brown Bear, You remember this book, right, yeah, definitely. 0:06:58.680 --> 0:07:00.799 Well that this was a rare case where a book 0:07:00.880 --> 0:07:03.719 was banned by accident. Yeah, I mean, I was about 0:07:03.720 --> 0:07:05.880 to say, it's hard to imagine it being banned for 0:07:05.920 --> 0:07:09.880 introducing colors and animals to kids. Well, the story is 0:07:09.920 --> 0:07:12.360 that someone on the state Board of Education in Texas 0:07:12.480 --> 0:07:15.240 was doing their research and googled the author's name. His 0:07:15.360 --> 0:07:18.320 name is Bill Martin and confused him with a different 0:07:18.360 --> 0:07:21.560 Bill Martin who had written a book called Ethical Marxism. 0:07:21.680 --> 0:07:25.240 So that's why there's not quite the juicy story behind it. 0:07:25.280 --> 0:07:28.240 I was hoping they had been offended for some ridiculous reason, 0:07:28.280 --> 0:07:31.440 but they're just so many interesting ones on this list. Also, 0:07:31.680 --> 0:07:34.880 one of our favorite authors or kids authors, Shel Silverstein, 0:07:35.440 --> 0:07:38.080 his book A Light in the Attic, was banned in Wisconsin. 0:07:39.280 --> 0:07:41.440 So this is confusing to me because I mean, it 0:07:41.480 --> 0:07:43.480 would make sense to me if The Giving Tree was banned, 0:07:43.520 --> 0:07:46.280 because you know, the hero of that book is so selfish, 0:07:46.320 --> 0:07:50.280 but a lightened attics just so good. Oh, no kidding it. 0:07:50.320 --> 0:07:52.640 And I you'll remember this poem when you hear it. 0:07:52.640 --> 0:07:54.840 But this is the offending poem, and and you can 0:07:54.880 --> 0:07:57.720 decide for yourself. It's called how not to have to 0:07:57.840 --> 0:08:01.080 dry the dishes. It goes like us, if you have 0:08:01.120 --> 0:08:04.080 to dry the dishes, such an awful, boring chore. If 0:08:04.120 --> 0:08:05.920 you have to dry the dishes intead of going to 0:08:05.960 --> 0:08:08.360 the store. If you have to dry the dishes and 0:08:08.400 --> 0:08:10.960 you drop one on the floor, maybe they won't let 0:08:11.000 --> 0:08:14.080 you dry the dishes anymore. So basically, you know, parents 0:08:14.120 --> 0:08:17.240 were worried about kids breaking their china, I guess, or 0:08:17.280 --> 0:08:19.840 having kids manipulate their way out of chores or something. 0:08:19.880 --> 0:08:22.160 It's just so weird that this was banned for that. 0:08:23.000 --> 0:08:26.640 I mean, it's ridiculous, right, Like, don't we want mischievous kids, 0:08:26.680 --> 0:08:29.520 like not too mischievous, but you want a little Zanian 0:08:29.560 --> 0:08:31.840 nous and creativity and the kind of kid who laughs 0:08:31.840 --> 0:08:34.640 at poems like that. Also, I do think if you're 0:08:34.640 --> 0:08:37.440 gonna take things so literally, shouldn't we be stopping kids 0:08:37.440 --> 0:08:40.080 from fables about like mice taking thorns out of lions 0:08:40.120 --> 0:08:43.760 pause because you really shouldn't be touching lions pause, Or 0:08:43.760 --> 0:08:46.200 from like watching things like Honey, I shrunk the kids 0:08:46.240 --> 0:08:50.000 because shrinking your kids isn't great parenting. You're right, it's 0:08:50.000 --> 0:08:52.400 really not a good idea if you're a parent. I'm 0:08:52.400 --> 0:08:54.760 glad that we've learned that now that we're both parents. 0:08:55.160 --> 0:08:56.960 But it feels like, you know, when you look at 0:08:56.960 --> 0:08:59.559 the breakdown of the types of books that have been banned, 0:08:59.600 --> 0:09:02.400 especially kids books that have been banned, you can break 0:09:02.400 --> 0:09:04.719 them down in a couple of ways. Some of the 0:09:04.760 --> 0:09:06.760 bands are about the type of kid that you want 0:09:06.760 --> 0:09:09.520 to raise. Obviously, a good communist who's banning Winnie the 0:09:09.559 --> 0:09:12.800 Pooh is trying to protect future generations from what they 0:09:12.800 --> 0:09:16.120 see as the shackles of religion, I guess. And it's 0:09:16.120 --> 0:09:19.280 the same with Shell Silverstein or Captain Underpants. And you know, 0:09:19.280 --> 0:09:21.960 whether right or wrong, their parents who want to raise 0:09:22.000 --> 0:09:24.880 a certain kind of good kid who's never exposed to 0:09:24.920 --> 0:09:28.360 any rude ideas. But then there's another type of book 0:09:28.400 --> 0:09:30.640 that gets banned, and that's a little bit more about 0:09:30.679 --> 0:09:35.120 these difficult conversations. So how do you mean, Well, there 0:09:35.160 --> 0:09:37.000 was this interesting article in the Atlantic and it was 0:09:37.040 --> 0:09:40.000 written by Paul Ringel, who's a history professor, and this 0:09:40.120 --> 0:09:42.400 from back in two thousand and sixteen. But he was 0:09:42.440 --> 0:09:44.960 talking about about fifty two percent of books that were 0:09:45.000 --> 0:09:47.640 banned or challenged in the ten years prior to two 0:09:47.679 --> 0:09:51.480 thousand and sixteen were what you'd label as diverse content. 0:09:51.920 --> 0:09:54.840 Now these are books like The Hate You Give or Wonder, 0:09:54.920 --> 0:09:59.280 which you know about race, or religion, or gender, sexual orientation, 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:02.760 many cases, even disabilities. But you know, he points out 0:10:02.800 --> 0:10:06.240 that this isn't a new issue. Parents have always been 0:10:06.280 --> 0:10:09.880 wary of having difficult conversations with their kids. In the 0:10:09.960 --> 0:10:13.720 eight hundreds, there was this magazine called Juvenile Miscellany, which 0:10:13.720 --> 0:10:15.480 I guess was kind of like the highlights of the 0:10:15.480 --> 0:10:18.560 Cricket magazine of its time, and it was filled with 0:10:18.600 --> 0:10:22.360 stories for children, and it was distributed mostly in New England. 0:10:22.440 --> 0:10:25.960 But you know, then started running these anti slavery stories 0:10:26.000 --> 0:10:29.000 which really worked to humanize the slaves. And this was 0:10:29.040 --> 0:10:33.679 in the eighteen thirties, and immediately the readership dropped. Then 0:10:33.679 --> 0:10:36.120 the magazine folded about a year or so after that, 0:10:36.240 --> 0:10:39.360 I think, and as he puts it quote, the outcome 0:10:39.440 --> 0:10:43.760 had a chilling effect on other publications. Everyone was scared 0:10:43.800 --> 0:10:46.320 of talking about issues of slavery, even though this audience 0:10:46.400 --> 0:10:49.160 is actually in the Northeast. But his point was that 0:10:49.200 --> 0:10:52.320 the publishers have always had this divide. You know, do 0:10:52.360 --> 0:10:55.160 you write to please your kid readers while encouraging them 0:10:55.240 --> 0:10:58.200 to think about the larger world, or do you please 0:10:58.280 --> 0:11:01.079 the parent and stay in this comfy, rble safe zone. 0:11:01.760 --> 0:11:04.320 And then the case of something like shel Silverstein, isn't 0:11:04.320 --> 0:11:06.760 having a conversation about how to read. You know that 0:11:06.800 --> 0:11:09.640 you don't just trust something because it's imprinted. It seems 0:11:09.679 --> 0:11:12.280 like that's a good conversation to have pretty early in 0:11:12.280 --> 0:11:15.520 a kid's life. Yeah, it's a good question, and I've 0:11:15.520 --> 0:11:17.720 actually heard a similar argument that the reason it took 0:11:17.760 --> 0:11:21.480 so long for books like Corduroy or Ezra Jack's Keith 0:11:21.559 --> 0:11:24.280 Snowy Day to break the color barrier and children's books 0:11:24.280 --> 0:11:27.280 with African American heroes was that publishers had actually been 0:11:27.280 --> 0:11:30.280 hesitant to publish anything that made parents feel uncomfortable. But 0:11:30.720 --> 0:11:35.080 during the era of civil rights, those worries were breaking down. Yeah, 0:11:35.160 --> 0:11:37.440 and actually, while we're talking about race, let's let's take 0:11:37.480 --> 0:11:39.880 a second to talk about Huck Finn, which, of course 0:11:40.320 --> 0:11:42.160 you know we've known has been on the band Books 0:11:42.200 --> 0:11:45.040 list over the years. And it's funny how this book 0:11:45.080 --> 0:11:49.560 caused controversy from the very beginning, and for very different reasons. 0:11:49.600 --> 0:11:52.160 At first, Mark Twain's classic was banned for being too 0:11:52.160 --> 0:11:55.920 progressive and humanizing slaves, and it was also banned for 0:11:56.000 --> 0:12:00.079 having low class language and conquered Massachusetts librarians called the 0:12:00.280 --> 0:12:03.360 trash and said it was suitable only for the slums. 0:12:04.080 --> 0:12:06.720 Then people in Missouri thought it showed them as backwards 0:12:06.800 --> 0:12:09.240 talking as well, and then, you know, you fast forward 0:12:09.320 --> 0:12:11.839 later in the fifties, then Double A CP raised the 0:12:11.840 --> 0:12:14.120 issue of how many times rachel slurs are used in 0:12:14.160 --> 0:12:17.160 the book, and eventually it got banned for being racist. 0:12:17.360 --> 0:12:19.880 So I love The Adventures of Huckleberry Fin. I I 0:12:19.920 --> 0:12:21.560 think when I read it, I was just so taken 0:12:21.600 --> 0:12:23.679 with this idea of um, I don't know, like an 0:12:23.760 --> 0:12:27.800 unreliable and mischievous storyteller and who just pulls you through 0:12:27.880 --> 0:12:31.800 an adventure. And it was just so funny and unpretentious 0:12:31.800 --> 0:12:34.880 to me and totally different from everything else I'd read. 0:12:34.960 --> 0:12:38.280 But I just saw this thing in g Q. They 0:12:38.320 --> 0:12:40.200 put out a list of twenty one books you don't 0:12:40.240 --> 0:12:42.200 have to read, and it's kind of a read this 0:12:42.360 --> 0:12:45.920 not that for classic literature. And Katie Weaver, who we 0:12:45.960 --> 0:12:47.680 love from our mental flast days and is one of 0:12:47.679 --> 0:12:50.079 my favorite writers. She she made a really smart point, 0:12:50.320 --> 0:12:54.040 she writes, quote, the worst crime committed by the Adventures 0:12:54.040 --> 0:12:56.839 of Huckleberry Finn is that it makes first time Twin 0:12:56.880 --> 0:13:00.480 readers think that Twain wrote tedious meandering stories. He did, 0:13:00.760 --> 0:13:04.040 as is evidenced by this his book of Tedious Meandering Stories, 0:13:04.520 --> 0:13:07.240 but he also wrote a lot of richly entertaining meandering 0:13:07.280 --> 0:13:09.840 stories that are not constrained by the ham fisted narration 0:13:09.920 --> 0:13:13.000 of a fictional backcountry child or suffused with his sweaty 0:13:13.040 --> 0:13:18.160 imitation of a slave talking. Alternatively, read Frederick Douglas's firsthand 0:13:18.160 --> 0:13:21.920 account of slavery, which is equal parts shocking and heartbreaking. 0:13:22.400 --> 0:13:25.400 While Jim, the affable slave friend of Huck Finn exclaims 0:13:25.440 --> 0:13:30.199 things like lawsy as mighty glad, Frederick Douglas makes observations 0:13:30.240 --> 0:13:34.040 like I love the pure, peaceable, and impartial Christianity of Christ. 0:13:34.280 --> 0:13:37.960 I therefore hate the corrupt, slaveholding women, whipping cradle plundering, 0:13:38.080 --> 0:13:41.319 partial and hypocritical Christianity of this land. I mean, I 0:13:41.600 --> 0:13:43.400 condenced to writing some And she goes on to talk 0:13:43.400 --> 0:13:45.680 about how amazing the plot of narrative of the life 0:13:45.679 --> 0:13:48.800 of Frederick Douglas is. But uh, it's a smart point 0:13:48.880 --> 0:13:51.280 that we too often tell this like slave with the 0:13:51.320 --> 0:13:54.600 smile type story to kids and our cultural reference point 0:13:54.600 --> 0:13:56.959 for a slave who's escaped as Jim from Huck Finn, 0:13:57.120 --> 0:14:02.280 instead of this unbelievably eloquent and really powerful Frederick Douglas. Yeah, 0:14:02.280 --> 0:14:04.560 that's a great point, and I do love Katie's writing. 0:14:04.600 --> 0:14:07.040 That's a that's a really really powerful quote from that. 0:14:07.080 --> 0:14:10.040 But I actually want to talk about an equally important 0:14:10.040 --> 0:14:12.520 book and one that might be seen as as powerful 0:14:12.720 --> 0:14:17.520 and that not surprisingly mango, it's Where's Waldo? So, but 0:14:17.679 --> 0:14:20.280 before we chat about why you can't read it in prisons, 0:14:20.520 --> 0:14:35.880 let's take a quick break. Welcome back to Part Time Genius. 0:14:35.920 --> 0:14:40.120 We we're talking banned books and specifically Where's Waldo? Now? Well, 0:14:40.160 --> 0:14:42.160 I do have to confess. One of my favorite little 0:14:42.160 --> 0:14:45.560 stories from our friend Jake Rosson is on the Where's Waldo? 0:14:45.680 --> 0:14:48.880 Topless beach scandal? And every time I see a Where's 0:14:48.880 --> 0:14:51.280 Waldo book, I think about that. But I don't think 0:14:51.280 --> 0:14:52.680 this is what you were talking about when you said 0:14:52.680 --> 0:14:55.400 Waldo was banned to prisons. Now that the Walldo that 0:14:55.480 --> 0:14:59.160 got banned at prisons was Where's Waldo? Santa Spectacular? But 0:14:59.640 --> 0:15:03.960 tell me what is this topless candal? It's really delicious. 0:15:04.040 --> 0:15:06.840 So apparently it started when some kid in East Hampton, 0:15:06.920 --> 0:15:08.920 New York got a Waldo book out of the library 0:15:09.080 --> 0:15:11.000 and found that one of the tiny women in this 0:15:11.040 --> 0:15:14.440 big beach scene was topless. She's a sunbathing on her 0:15:14.480 --> 0:15:16.840 stomach and lying on top of her top and this 0:15:16.920 --> 0:15:19.080 kid with an ice cream cone kind of touches the 0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:21.800 cone to her back, so in the pic she's captured 0:15:21.960 --> 0:15:24.440 arching her back up in shock. Yeah, I can see 0:15:24.440 --> 0:15:26.680 why parents might have been a little concerned by this, 0:15:26.760 --> 0:15:29.560 but I'm curious to know how much breast is little 0:15:29.640 --> 0:15:33.680 Johnny seeing here. Well, from my initial reading, I thought 0:15:33.720 --> 0:15:36.440 it was just a little side boop, but apparently there's 0:15:36.520 --> 0:15:39.400 definitely some nipple in there as well. And according to 0:15:39.480 --> 0:15:43.400 Jake's reporting, the kid was quote as quote being disgusted 0:15:43.600 --> 0:15:46.520 and upon finding not Waldo, he kind of immediately ran 0:15:46.600 --> 0:15:49.360 to tell his mom, but not before showing it to 0:15:49.480 --> 0:15:53.520 his younger brother first. But anyway, the mom got the 0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:56.400 book banned from American libraries and bookstores, which is reasonable, 0:15:56.600 --> 0:15:59.120 I guess, but I had forgotten this. The books are 0:15:59.160 --> 0:16:03.360 actually from or Oh, that's right, He's what's he called? Here? 0:16:03.440 --> 0:16:07.000 Is Where's Wally? Right exactly? And you know, nudity and 0:16:07.040 --> 0:16:10.960 topless sunbathing isn't exactly controversial there. So while Where's Waldo 0:16:11.040 --> 0:16:14.360 was on the top of this books list throughout the nineties, 0:16:14.480 --> 0:16:18.120 right next to Howard Stern's Private Parts, Where's Wally actually 0:16:18.120 --> 0:16:19.800 got to keep hanging out with the topless woman on 0:16:19.800 --> 0:16:21.920 the beach, And of course it wasn't long before she 0:16:22.000 --> 0:16:24.840 covered up for American audiences. But tell me about this 0:16:24.920 --> 0:16:27.800 Santa Spectacular because I'm super curious. Well, I'm glad you 0:16:27.800 --> 0:16:30.200 took us on that on that tangent. I never thought 0:16:30.280 --> 0:16:32.640 the word side boob would be said on Part Time Genius, 0:16:32.640 --> 0:16:35.760 but we managed to to pull that off. But when 0:16:35.760 --> 0:16:37.800 you talk about this one, actually the band in Texas 0:16:37.880 --> 0:16:40.320 prisons was based less about a war on sand and 0:16:40.360 --> 0:16:42.360 it was more about the fact that the book came 0:16:42.400 --> 0:16:45.360 with stickers. Apparently, stickers are banned in prison for a 0:16:45.480 --> 0:16:48.040 number of reasons. First, you can you can make band 0:16:48.080 --> 0:16:50.280 aids with them, which is a problem because jails want 0:16:50.320 --> 0:16:53.240 to know about injuries, both major and minor, that are 0:16:53.240 --> 0:16:56.080 going on there. And also, stickers are an easy way 0:16:56.080 --> 0:16:59.000 to cover up a camera or a glass, and that 0:16:59.080 --> 0:17:01.440 might keep the guards from looking at you, So it 0:17:01.520 --> 0:17:04.080 makes sense for the prison to ban them. But the 0:17:04.080 --> 0:17:06.640 author was partially pointing out the absurdity of the fact 0:17:06.640 --> 0:17:08.920 that books like mine comp and The Holy Book of 0:17:08.960 --> 0:17:13.280 Adolf Hitler they're considered acceptable literature while being seen with 0:17:13.320 --> 0:17:16.520 a copy of Where's Waldo Santa Spectacular will land you 0:17:16.560 --> 0:17:20.160 in solitary. I love that you could be a badass 0:17:20.160 --> 0:17:22.240 in jail for just smuggling in a copy of Wear's 0:17:22.240 --> 0:17:25.600 Waldo And speaking of smuggling, uh, I know, we wanted 0:17:25.600 --> 0:17:27.760 to talk about my favorite story of all time, how 0:17:27.960 --> 0:17:30.639 Ulysses by James Joyce got to the US, and this 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:33.960 involves one of our favorite publishers, Bennett Surf. That's right. 0:17:33.960 --> 0:17:36.840 So Bennett Surf is the publisher who founded Random House, 0:17:36.840 --> 0:17:39.080 and we've talked about him a couple of times. He's, 0:17:39.080 --> 0:17:40.960 of course the guy who bet Dr Seuss that he 0:17:40.960 --> 0:17:43.800 couldn't write a book with less than fifty words. We 0:17:43.920 --> 0:17:46.200 mentioned that before and that the book ended up being 0:17:46.280 --> 0:17:49.160 Green Eggs in Ham, But actually before we talked about 0:17:49.160 --> 0:17:52.120 this anymore, can I tell you my favorite Bennett Surf fact? Definitely? 0:17:53.320 --> 0:17:56.120 So Bennett Surf loved writers and he liked hanging out 0:17:56.160 --> 0:17:59.000 with them and talking to them about literature, and he 0:17:59.040 --> 0:18:02.320 actually liked make edits. He once pleaded with iron Ran 0:18:02.440 --> 0:18:05.080 to cut the John Galt speech, and I love her 0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:07.600 response to this, She said, would you cut the Bible? 0:18:07.600 --> 0:18:10.439 Which is just kind of like peaque iron Ran. But 0:18:10.520 --> 0:18:13.919 my favorite fact is that he loved Gertrude Stein and 0:18:13.960 --> 0:18:16.240 he would publish her books just a kind of be 0:18:16.480 --> 0:18:21.160 in her orbit. And Surf enjoyed big personalities and challenging authors, 0:18:21.200 --> 0:18:24.000 and he even admitted in his introduction to her book 0:18:24.000 --> 0:18:27.080 the book was called Geographical History of America or the 0:18:27.119 --> 0:18:30.200 Relation of Human Nature to the Human Mind. It's quite 0:18:30.200 --> 0:18:32.679 a long title, but this is how his intro to 0:18:32.720 --> 0:18:35.960 the book starts. I must admit, frankly, I do not 0:18:36.040 --> 0:18:38.000 know what ms Stein is talking about. I do not 0:18:38.119 --> 0:18:44.000 even understand the title. That's ridiculous. Apparently she was fine 0:18:44.080 --> 0:18:47.040 with it, and they had this relationship that was pretty playful, 0:18:47.720 --> 0:18:50.400 and when he asked her to explain the line arose 0:18:50.440 --> 0:18:53.800 as a rose as a rose, she just responded, Bennett, 0:18:53.880 --> 0:18:56.919 you're a very nice boy, but you're rather stupid. And 0:18:56.960 --> 0:18:59.439 I just always kind of was amused by that quote. 0:18:59.720 --> 0:19:02.399 But let's talk about the Ultimate band Book, which is 0:19:02.440 --> 0:19:06.159 of course Ulysses definitely. So this telling is based on 0:19:06.200 --> 0:19:07.840 a story I worked on in Metal Flass with my 0:19:07.880 --> 0:19:09.879 pal Lucas Adams. But I'm gonna try to keep it 0:19:09.920 --> 0:19:12.840 as quick as I can. So Surf, as you listeners 0:19:12.840 --> 0:19:15.760 have probably figured out by now, is this charismatic and 0:19:15.800 --> 0:19:19.920 savvy and really energized character and he's trying to make 0:19:19.920 --> 0:19:22.800 a name for his new company, Random House, and Ulysses 0:19:22.840 --> 0:19:25.080 has been around for a while, but it gained a 0:19:25.080 --> 0:19:28.400 reputation for being obscene. A Harvard professor at the time 0:19:28.400 --> 0:19:30.719 it claimed that the work showed that Joyce was quote 0:19:30.800 --> 0:19:34.760 in an advanced stage of psychic disintegration, and places like 0:19:34.880 --> 0:19:37.000 Quarterly Review talked about the book like it was trying 0:19:37.040 --> 0:19:40.359 to destroy Western civilization. And of course all of this 0:19:40.520 --> 0:19:44.000 baffled James Joyce right like he was a little irritated 0:19:44.040 --> 0:19:46.320 that he had written this masterpiece and poured all his 0:19:46.359 --> 0:19:49.080 effort into this and he just couldn't make any money 0:19:49.080 --> 0:19:51.600 off it. When it was being serialized in the US, 0:19:51.680 --> 0:19:54.760 the courts banned it on similar obscenity grounds. The New 0:19:54.840 --> 0:19:57.280 York Society for the Suppression of Vice had actually set 0:19:57.359 --> 0:19:59.919 up this court case against it, and it made it 0:20:00.040 --> 0:20:01.919 so that just owning a copy of the book was 0:20:01.960 --> 0:20:05.760 this arrestable offense. I mean, this is crazy, right for Joyce, 0:20:05.880 --> 0:20:08.560 it was just this book that he couldn't get anyone 0:20:08.600 --> 0:20:12.879 to take on anyway. In the famous indie bookstore in 0:20:12.880 --> 0:20:15.840 Paris called the Shakespeare Publishing Company starts publishing the book 0:20:15.920 --> 0:20:19.000 in this light blue cover, and to be seen with 0:20:19.080 --> 0:20:21.240 these books was kind of a thing for the literarty. 0:20:21.400 --> 0:20:23.320 So if you wanted to read the book in the US, 0:20:23.359 --> 0:20:25.440 you'd have to go there or sneak a copy over. 0:20:25.520 --> 0:20:28.560 And it was kind of fun and illegal. But if 0:20:28.560 --> 0:20:30.720 the Postal Service got their hands on the book, they 0:20:30.720 --> 0:20:33.840 were under strict orders to burn it immediately, and you 0:20:33.880 --> 0:20:35.840 could actually get arrested for owning a copy if you 0:20:35.960 --> 0:20:39.040 really flaunted it. So it progresses like this for a while, 0:20:39.520 --> 0:20:42.480 and then about ten years later in two and this 0:20:42.520 --> 0:20:45.360