1 00:00:08,520 --> 00:00:13,160 Speaker 1: Welcome to Strictly Business, Varieties weekly podcast featuring conversations with 2 00:00:13,240 --> 00:00:17,079 Speaker 1: industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment. I'm 3 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:20,959 Speaker 1: Cynthia Littleton, co editor in chief of Variety Today. My 4 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:23,800 Speaker 1: guest is Kelly Edwards, a TV writer and a former 5 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 1: executive at HBO, up N and NBC Universal. That background 6 00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:31,960 Speaker 1: gives her an unusual perspective on the business. She's taken 7 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:34,720 Speaker 1: her experience in the trenches and put it all down 8 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:38,519 Speaker 1: in a primer designed to help aspiring writers navigate the 9 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:42,880 Speaker 1: business side of television. The Executive Chair, A Writer's Guide 10 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:45,960 Speaker 1: to TV Series Development, is a breezy guide to the 11 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 1: things they don't teach you in content school, like what 12 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 1: to do when you meet an executive you've just pitched 13 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 1: in the wild. In our conversation, Edwards talks about how 14 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:57,800 Speaker 1: the process of writing the book helped her gain insight 15 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:01,240 Speaker 1: into a changing business. We all have to get comfortable 16 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:04,679 Speaker 1: with being uncomfortable, she says. That's all coming up on 17 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 1: Strictly Business after the break. Kelly Edwards, TV writer and 18 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:23,520 Speaker 1: author of the new book The Executive Chair, A Writer's 19 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:28,039 Speaker 1: Guide to TV Series Development a very useful tone. It 20 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 1: is so fun it's a it's a breezy read, but 21 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:34,840 Speaker 1: it has it is packed with information. Welcome to Strictly Business. 22 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:37,039 Speaker 1: Thanks for coming in today and thank you for having me. 23 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:41,640 Speaker 1: I'm overjoyed to be here. Thanks Kelly. It really as 24 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 1: I said, it is, it's a it's a great read. 25 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:46,959 Speaker 1: It is. I've read a lot of books about about television. 26 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 1: I have a little collection about of books about television, 27 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 1: and it is one of the best that I've read 28 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:56,560 Speaker 1: in terms of just laying out the real politique of 29 00:01:56,680 --> 00:01:59,680 Speaker 1: how how a bill becomes the law, how a how 30 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 1: an germ of an idea becomes a TV series that 31 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:08,440 Speaker 1: ideally runs for ten seasons and however many episodes, although 32 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 1: I'm dating myself because that may not entirely be the 33 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:13,840 Speaker 1: business model these days. But that's getting to my point. 34 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 1: Taking the time as as an industry veteran who has 35 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 1: seen this industry from the perspective of a writer, a producer, 36 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:26,320 Speaker 1: and executive and advocate. Um so taking the measure of 37 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:30,359 Speaker 1: this industry as you did, to articulate it how how 38 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:34,519 Speaker 1: the business side of the of the business of writing works. 39 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:39,000 Speaker 1: What did that process tell you about how this industry 40 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:44,200 Speaker 1: is changing? Wow? Well, the the industry has has grown 41 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:46,239 Speaker 1: by leaps and downs. And I think that even when 42 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:50,400 Speaker 1: I was back in assistant mode, when I was working 43 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:53,440 Speaker 1: for a couple of executive producers, you know, things were 44 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:56,720 Speaker 1: very very different. You know, obviously we went from a 45 00:02:56,760 --> 00:03:02,280 Speaker 1: primarily multi camp business into a single camp world. You know, 46 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:05,520 Speaker 1: they're virtually no none of the kinds of shows that 47 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:07,240 Speaker 1: I did when I started out are we doing now, 48 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:10,959 Speaker 1: and and the business has changed so much in terms 49 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 1: of just the streamer. It's just in the in the 50 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:15,760 Speaker 1: in the way that we're producing television, the kinds of 51 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:20,239 Speaker 1: television that we're producing, um, and you know, the economics 52 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 1: of it. Everything has been up ended by technology, by taste, 53 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:30,520 Speaker 1: by by where society sort of going in general. I 54 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 1: think it's it's kind of exciting for me when I 55 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 1: look at where we started and and even before I started, 56 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:39,000 Speaker 1: because I've been a fan of television for you know, 57 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:40,960 Speaker 1: my entire life, and I used to watch Father it 58 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 1: was best in those sort of things, you know, when 59 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 1: I was coming home from school. I feel as though 60 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 1: we're in an industry that's always going to change, um, 61 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 1: so you have to just sort of ride the wave. 62 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 1: But where we are now, I feel like, I feel 63 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 1: like we're also ready for another another change. It's something 64 00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:00,480 Speaker 1: good I happened soon because even this much as that 65 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 1: we have an unstable environment at the moment, with the 66 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 1: advent of all the streamers, I think someone's going to 67 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:13,160 Speaker 1: come along very quickly and switch things up again. I 68 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 1: feel like it's just sort of accelerating them more more 69 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:17,760 Speaker 1: in a transitional period. I think we are. Yeah, I 70 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:21,479 Speaker 1: think where we have to just get comfortable with me uncomfortable, 71 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 1: you know. I think that's good advice for this moment. 72 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:28,360 Speaker 1: When you talk about where things are changing, even on 73 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 1: the production side, you also have to look at how 74 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:34,719 Speaker 1: things are changing on the pitching side. So I've been 75 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:39,039 Speaker 1: very it's been a very interesting pitching season, you know. 76 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:42,040 Speaker 1: I started out with this first look deal at HBO 77 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 1: this last year and have been back in the trenches 78 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:48,800 Speaker 1: on the pitching side. And now with everyone asking for 79 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:52,679 Speaker 1: decks and pre pitches before your pitches, and the amount 80 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:54,919 Speaker 1: of notes that you get for a pitched before it 81 00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 1: even gets too to the network, there's a lot more 82 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:02,640 Speaker 1: work that happened now on the pitching side of the 83 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 1: of this whole system, as opposed to where we were 84 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:07,720 Speaker 1: before when we were sitting in a room, and I 85 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:10,679 Speaker 1: would go in and sit across from someone and pitch something, 86 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:14,719 Speaker 1: and there was a very visceral reaction to the pitch, 87 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 1: and I could tell where I was and how they 88 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 1: were feeling it and if we were vibing, and then 89 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:22,359 Speaker 1: I could, you know, make tweaks if I needed to 90 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:25,120 Speaker 1: in the room, if I was you know, if I 91 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 1: felt like I needed to push a little bit more. 92 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:30,279 Speaker 1: And I feel like the zoom of it all has 93 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:33,960 Speaker 1: really changed a lot, just even on the pitching side. 94 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:36,840 Speaker 1: So I do think that we're in this really called 95 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:40,839 Speaker 1: it inflection point, the inflection point where we are completely 96 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 1: changing everything about it, even from you know, on the 97 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:47,279 Speaker 1: on the production side and on the even before you 98 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 1: get there on the development side. Which you say about 99 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:52,680 Speaker 1: the pre the pre pitch process sounds very much what 100 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:56,039 Speaker 1: we're hearing from casting directors, which is, you know, everything 101 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 1: is on tape now, and now send me a little 102 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:00,520 Speaker 1: bit of tape before you send me the tape of 103 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:03,160 Speaker 1: the sides that I wanted. It is really and would 104 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:05,479 Speaker 1: you say that that sort of the preamble to the 105 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:08,919 Speaker 1: pitching process. Was that changing even before pandemic or is 106 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:12,039 Speaker 1: that something that has come in the era of Zoom, 107 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:14,480 Speaker 1: I think there was always a little bit of the 108 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:17,400 Speaker 1: pre pitching, but it was usually on the studio side 109 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 1: of the production side, so you always prepped, so you 110 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:23,920 Speaker 1: had to pitch to the studio, to the to the 111 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:26,920 Speaker 1: studio or and then before you get pitch to the network. 112 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 1: So there was always a little bit of that. I'm 113 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 1: now finding that it's happening more in many more places 114 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 1: than before, So I do think that there's a little 115 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:37,960 Speaker 1: bit of a everyone's hedging their bets. Everybody wants many 116 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:41,440 Speaker 1: many many more stops before, you know, along the way, 117 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:43,560 Speaker 1: before they can you know, before they have to say 118 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 1: yes and that and that is such such an interesting 119 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:48,800 Speaker 1: change because I can remember network exect saying in the 120 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 1: past that part of the part of the fun of 121 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:52,280 Speaker 1: the job and kind of part of the magic was 122 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:55,840 Speaker 1: walking in not sometimes barely even knowing what right they 123 00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 1: were going to meet in meet with, but just walk 124 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:01,360 Speaker 1: in the room. Tell me story, tell me a compelling 125 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:04,240 Speaker 1: story that I can't I can't let you go without 126 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:07,440 Speaker 1: without buying so exactly, so tell me, tell me what 127 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 1: was the spark of inspiration for you to to write 128 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:14,680 Speaker 1: this book, And tell me what was the first thing 129 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:18,560 Speaker 1: you did to make it happen. Okay, well this this, 130 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 1: I will tell you the story of how the book 131 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 1: came about, which is a little bit different than where 132 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 1: the book started because for thirty years of my career, 133 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 1: I've been a journal er and a and i'll call 134 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:37,240 Speaker 1: it a diary writer, but I guess it's journally. And 135 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 1: I started that because my mother got me a Franklin 136 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 1: planner when I was just becoming, you know, an assistant 137 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:44,559 Speaker 1: in the business, and so I would write everything down. 138 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 1: And when you write everything down, you know, all of 139 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 1: a sudden it became well, I'm going to write a 140 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 1: little bit of a personal note about it. So I 141 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:56,560 Speaker 1: have thirty years of many stories. Most of the stories 142 00:07:56,600 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 1: have to do with heartbreaking things that happened because of 143 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 1: diversity conflicts that I had. So there's a whole other 144 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:08,080 Speaker 1: book in my psyche somewhere that I started to put 145 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 1: down on paper, and so I had on my computer 146 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:14,560 Speaker 1: maybe the last couple of years, two books simultaneously. I 147 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:18,320 Speaker 1: was writing a book about writing because I've been developing 148 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 1: all of these programs about for writers, but I also 149 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 1: had one about diversity. So about just over a year ago, 150 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 1: I happened to be doing a um uh rocketberty retreat. 151 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:35,280 Speaker 1: So it's a writer's retreat and they usually take people 152 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 1: off to uh Spain or Italy or whatever. You spend 153 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 1: a week with some some gorgeous setting to inspire fantastic 154 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:46,080 Speaker 1: words and somewhere. And this happened to me because we 155 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:48,319 Speaker 1: were all on the pandemic. I happened to be doing 156 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:52,800 Speaker 1: it through the virtual retreat. And while I was in 157 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:55,520 Speaker 1: this there was another woman named Kathy Anetta who had 158 00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 1: been a Paramount executive, who had written a book. And 159 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 1: she said, well, you sound like you know what you're 160 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 1: talking about. I think you'd be great to write a book. 161 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:05,199 Speaker 1: Would you like to meet my publisher? And I said sure, 162 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:07,480 Speaker 1: And within forty eight hours I had a call from 163 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:09,679 Speaker 1: this publisher and he said, would you like to write 164 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:11,120 Speaker 1: a book? I said, we'll actually have a book on 165 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 1: my computer. Are you interested in He said no. He said, 166 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 1: there are plenty of books out there about writing, but 167 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:19,719 Speaker 1: we're what there aren't about our books about writing from 168 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:23,000 Speaker 1: the executive side side of the business. And he said, 169 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 1: why don't you write about that? And I I know, 170 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:27,640 Speaker 1: I told him. I laughed at him and I said 171 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:30,000 Speaker 1: there's got to be a hundred and he said, he said, 172 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 1: google it, and google it, and I did. I did 173 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:37,760 Speaker 1: realize that again there was a white space, and I thought, well, 174 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 1: I've always wanted to put down all of the training 175 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:44,640 Speaker 1: that I've had as a writer, but also all of 176 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:47,880 Speaker 1: the learnings that I've been parted to other writers. And 177 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 1: when we go when I go to conferences and festivals, 178 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 1: I'm always asked the same questions, and it feels as 179 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:58,120 Speaker 1: though there are people who just need to know some 180 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:01,120 Speaker 1: of the interest cacies that you know that I know that, 181 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:03,319 Speaker 1: and all of the executives, and I know we all 182 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:05,920 Speaker 1: just sort of have that information rattling around in our 183 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:09,160 Speaker 1: brains and it's not like we conceal it from anybody. 184 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:12,320 Speaker 1: We just never think about telling anybody. So I said, well, 185 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 1: I'll do that, and I wrote a sample chapter, I 186 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 1: wrote a table of contents, and within a week he said, okay, 187 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:21,320 Speaker 1: let's do this. And then I was living up in Montana. 188 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:24,040 Speaker 1: Still I am living up in Montana, and for about 189 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:28,719 Speaker 1: the first four months of my of the of the 190 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:33,040 Speaker 1: of my non executive life, I just hunker down and 191 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:36,480 Speaker 1: started to put it all on paper. And the goal 192 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 1: was let me give kind of the cheat sheet to 193 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:47,480 Speaker 1: everybody about what an executive thinks and how to approach executives, 194 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 1: and what do you need to have in your arsenal, 195 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:52,280 Speaker 1: what's your game plan, how to be really specific about 196 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:55,400 Speaker 1: who you are so that we will remember you, and 197 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:58,760 Speaker 1: just give some of that information that I do feel 198 00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:01,320 Speaker 1: like there's this little bit of a gap between folks 199 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 1: who want to be in the business and then when 200 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 1: you finally get to Hollywood and you want to be 201 00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:09,719 Speaker 1: in it breaking through and some of these things are 202 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:13,320 Speaker 1: just for us on the executive side, and I sort 203 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:15,640 Speaker 1: of sit I think in the book too, I start 204 00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 1: to straddle thatfence between writer and executive, and that is unusual. 205 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:21,680 Speaker 1: I mean that that's unusual, and that that enriches the 206 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 1: perspective of this book so much. Good good I I 207 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:27,520 Speaker 1: was I was hoping so that, you know, I think 208 00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 1: it's just we just I just wanted to make sure 209 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:33,920 Speaker 1: that people felt that the doors are open. Whence they are. 210 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:37,400 Speaker 1: We were constantly opening the doors every time a diversity 211 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:39,960 Speaker 1: program opens up, or any time we go to a 212 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:42,880 Speaker 1: festival or conference and we're doing the Q and A. 213 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:46,680 Speaker 1: We need that influence with genuine desire to find a 214 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:49,040 Speaker 1: new voice that that comes across very much in the 215 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:52,240 Speaker 1: book to you, right exactly that was how it started. 216 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:55,600 Speaker 1: And then you tell me how it's going, well it isn't. Again. 217 00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:58,440 Speaker 1: The perspective is so good because it's written that only 218 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:00,800 Speaker 1: only somebody who has been in an executive has been 219 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 1: on the other side of that table. And it's written 220 00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 1: with great empathy for what the writer, what the scared, nervous, 221 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:10,520 Speaker 1: shy writer is going through at that moment, and and 222 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 1: it is as granular is you know, how you conduct 223 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:16,560 Speaker 1: yourself in the lobby while you're waiting for the to 224 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:18,560 Speaker 1: get into your pitch meeting, and what happens if you 225 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:22,320 Speaker 1: happen to run into that executive in the wild, in 226 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:24,960 Speaker 1: in the real world before you've gotten an answer yes 227 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 1: or no, and how you conduct yourself, and just a 228 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:32,800 Speaker 1: lot of really practical information that does kind of fill 229 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:35,839 Speaker 1: in the gaps between you know, screen screenwriting one oh 230 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:38,880 Speaker 1: one or two oh one and your graduate seminar and 231 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 1: what you how you what you can expect and how 232 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:46,439 Speaker 1: you should conduct yourself when you do get that hail Mary, 233 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:49,240 Speaker 1: you know that that one in a million shot that 234 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:52,320 Speaker 1: you know can open the doors, or how do you 235 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:55,840 Speaker 1: make that shot it? Yeah, that that very important too, 236 00:12:56,559 --> 00:12:58,920 Speaker 1: and also on the but also does the book also 237 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:02,160 Speaker 1: shows your writer early understanding of the you know, how 238 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:04,760 Speaker 1: literally you take the germ of an idea and the 239 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:08,400 Speaker 1: timeline and the and the process that it goes through. 240 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:11,439 Speaker 1: You talk a lot about the pilot season process and 241 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:14,679 Speaker 1: that you know, that very rigid twelve month cycle that's 242 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:18,680 Speaker 1: not a calendar year but really more a development year. Um. 243 00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 1: As you were writing that and kind of you know, 244 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:25,880 Speaker 1: writing down the the fairly rigid parameters of that, did 245 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:29,640 Speaker 1: did that spark in you any thoughts about pilot season 246 00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:33,560 Speaker 1: and how the now abundance of production and content and 247 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:37,360 Speaker 1: development that happens outside of that traditional call it you know, 248 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:41,480 Speaker 1: August to January ish period when scripts are developed and 249 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:44,800 Speaker 1: then that February to April ish period when pilots are shot. 250 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:48,160 Speaker 1: There's now and has been now for years. There's a 251 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:51,760 Speaker 1: ton of content and stuff that has developed at all times, 252 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:54,640 Speaker 1: all hours of the day and night. But pilot season 253 00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:57,439 Speaker 1: does endure, and it is a it is an organizing 254 00:13:57,480 --> 00:13:59,880 Speaker 1: factor for a big chunk of the business. As you 255 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:02,920 Speaker 1: as you detailed all the steps in that, what any 256 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:06,520 Speaker 1: any insights or thoughts about how that's changing or how 257 00:14:06,559 --> 00:14:09,600 Speaker 1: it should change as you as you know, detailed those steps, 258 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:13,360 Speaker 1: and yeah, I would say here's what occurred to me 259 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:15,160 Speaker 1: at the time that I was writing that. Because it 260 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:18,600 Speaker 1: is an old model, but it is still a model 261 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:21,120 Speaker 1: that we talk about. So we talked about development teams, 262 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 1: we talked about and it's it's and it does happen 263 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:27,800 Speaker 1: different places at different times. But everyone has a chunk 264 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:29,760 Speaker 1: of money at a certain point and that money runs 265 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:33,840 Speaker 1: out and there's a cycle of that money. So talking 266 00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:38,600 Speaker 1: about development season or pilot season does still is still valid. 267 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 1: Now people green light things at different times. It takes 268 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:46,840 Speaker 1: some shows much longer to develop the other shows, and 269 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:49,040 Speaker 1: I think the good news is that now people are 270 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 1: giving them time. Don't go anywhere. We'll hear more from 271 00:14:56,840 --> 00:15:06,160 Speaker 1: author Kelly Edwards after this break, and we're back with 272 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 1: more from author Kelly Edwards. Were there areas that you 273 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:13,280 Speaker 1: saw it you saw consult with people, or were there 274 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:15,600 Speaker 1: areas that you talked to other people about maybe their 275 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 1: experiences to bring in some more perspective in your book, 276 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:20,720 Speaker 1: or did you really feel like this was this was 277 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:24,320 Speaker 1: you wanted to tell your your experience in the in 278 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 1: these situations. Yeah, that was one of the things that 279 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:28,440 Speaker 1: was one of the notes that I got from my 280 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:31,280 Speaker 1: publisher because I said, oh, let me talk to some 281 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 1: of my friends and I can get quotes, and he 282 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:36,280 Speaker 1: was like, no, we really wanted to be a single 283 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:42,000 Speaker 1: point of view, which is why I did I very 284 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:45,080 Speaker 1: carefully think made sure that I stayed in my lane 285 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:47,560 Speaker 1: as well, so you won't see a lot of things 286 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 1: that are about the craft of writing, because there are 287 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 1: tons of books out there on the craft of writing. 288 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:53,880 Speaker 1: I don't need to tell you how to format of 289 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:57,040 Speaker 1: script and how to slug lines in there. But he 290 00:15:57,160 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 1: definitely wanted to make sure that I was doing something 291 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 1: from my perspective. But I did have conversations with folks 292 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:07,120 Speaker 1: early on, before I even started to put pen to 293 00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:10,160 Speaker 1: paper about well, what are your pet peeves you know 294 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:13,680 Speaker 1: about you know from executives, what do you find is 295 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:17,920 Speaker 1: the most common question? What is the um what what 296 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 1: show would you put on this list? You know? What 297 00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 1: am I missing? So I did seek out some of that, 298 00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:27,040 Speaker 1: but not a tremendous amount because I did want to 299 00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:29,760 Speaker 1: make sure that I was um as true to my 300 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 1: own personal voice as I could be. And there are 301 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 1: things that I left out there. I mean, there are 302 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:37,040 Speaker 1: stories that I left out. There are shows that I 303 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:39,800 Speaker 1: didn't mention that I had a hand in, because while 304 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 1: I'm you know, when you're developing, you don't always take 305 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:45,920 Speaker 1: ownership of everything that you develop. There are plenty of 306 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:48,000 Speaker 1: things that I've forgotten that I had, you know, I 307 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:51,800 Speaker 1: had to go through some of my old development um 308 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:55,080 Speaker 1: uh journalist to say, oh, yeah, I actually did I 309 00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 1: was part of that show, but they weren't necessarily relevant. 310 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:01,320 Speaker 1: So I did change that. And I had a whole 311 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:04,680 Speaker 1: chapter on developing the comedy and developing the drama that again, 312 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:08,239 Speaker 1: I didn't feel as though we're really part of what 313 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 1: I wanted to say with this book, so I had 314 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:13,800 Speaker 1: to be very specific about staying in that lane. I think. 315 00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:15,800 Speaker 1: I think you do a good job because there is 316 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:18,359 Speaker 1: it is a very clear, clear through line, and it 317 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:21,320 Speaker 1: doesn't feel like it goes into you know, aspects of 318 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:24,560 Speaker 1: screenwriting type of you know, and and it does make 319 00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:27,480 Speaker 1: it distinct and you're right and I you know, knowing 320 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:30,879 Speaker 1: you your right sense of humor is so perfect for 321 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:33,280 Speaker 1: this kind of kind of it's almost a how to 322 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:36,479 Speaker 1: or here's you know, it's almost what to expect when 323 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:42,960 Speaker 1: you're expecting a pilot. Hey, that's a good um. Did 324 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:46,159 Speaker 1: you find um? You know again, in the process of 325 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:49,200 Speaker 1: writing did it? Did you have kind of Eureka moments? Oh, 326 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:51,320 Speaker 1: that's why we do that, or that's why this is 327 00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:53,879 Speaker 1: awkward for people? Did you? Was there sort of discovery 328 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:56,199 Speaker 1: along the way as you were writing. I think the 329 00:17:56,240 --> 00:18:01,320 Speaker 1: discovery was more about I think my own personal discovery, 330 00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 1: because a lot of the stuff that I've talked about 331 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:09,040 Speaker 1: in the book are things that I've been cultivating or 332 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:13,280 Speaker 1: working or doing seminars on for quite a while, so 333 00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:18,440 Speaker 1: I've pretty much had that information, uh in my head. 334 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:21,720 Speaker 1: I think what was a little bit more revelatory were 335 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:24,879 Speaker 1: when I had to go back from my own history 336 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:27,760 Speaker 1: and go back through and and remember, oh, this is 337 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:30,080 Speaker 1: where I went from point A to point B, and 338 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:33,040 Speaker 1: and this was the transition between here and there, and 339 00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:37,919 Speaker 1: who was influencing me in this journey? So, you know, 340 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:42,000 Speaker 1: telling the story about about my old bush tery prisinging 341 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:45,600 Speaker 1: in and how he loved people, I that was a 342 00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:48,960 Speaker 1: I had to really go back and think, well, what 343 00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:53,720 Speaker 1: was that point that made me go from terrified new 344 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:57,359 Speaker 1: be executive into somebody who was a little bit more 345 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:01,159 Speaker 1: at home in my own skin, and a lot of 346 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:05,359 Speaker 1: it had to do with remembering, you know, how other 347 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:08,720 Speaker 1: people networked and applied that to myself, or how I 348 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:11,400 Speaker 1: had to take a moment I think when I had 349 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:14,359 Speaker 1: to have a conversation with myself. And I was at 350 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:16,879 Speaker 1: UPN by this time, so I was an executive and 351 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:20,679 Speaker 1: a senior executive, but I still realized that I needed 352 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:23,919 Speaker 1: to reach up I get to know some of the 353 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:26,439 Speaker 1: people who were at the president level. And I was 354 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 1: terrified of doing that, but I knew that I needed 355 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:31,439 Speaker 1: to do it, and having to relive all of that 356 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:35,159 Speaker 1: information and go okay, there was a definite moment, and 357 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:38,520 Speaker 1: I remember the moment when I made that decision that 358 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:40,159 Speaker 1: I was going to go out, even if it's scared 359 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:42,439 Speaker 1: the crap out of me. I needed to do that 360 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:46,080 Speaker 1: for my career. So rewinding my own personal tapes was 361 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:50,639 Speaker 1: probably the revelation that that I was I was not expecting, 362 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:52,280 Speaker 1: you know, kind of think like, oh, I'm gonna do 363 00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:53,960 Speaker 1: a sort of a how to, and then you go, 364 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 1: oh no, no no, I have to actually talk to myself 365 00:19:57,560 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 1: and go deeper into myself. I had to put some 366 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:01,960 Speaker 1: of your you're on self into yeah. Well, that's what 367 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:04,440 Speaker 1: makes good writing is heart and soul. And again that 368 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:07,400 Speaker 1: sense of humored so so comes through. Let me ask 369 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:09,960 Speaker 1: you how did you write? Did you did you write 370 00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:13,119 Speaker 1: on a laptop? Did you find a space somewhere that 371 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 1: you like to write? I always love to ask writers 372 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:19,840 Speaker 1: how how they like to write? I wrote it so again. 373 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:23,200 Speaker 1: I was up in Montana. I was sitting on a sofa. 374 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:27,120 Speaker 1: It was very comfortable, and I did most of my writing. 375 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:30,479 Speaker 1: I get up at four am, and so I wrote 376 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:32,720 Speaker 1: from four a m. To eight a m. Every day, 377 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:38,320 Speaker 1: and most of it was just in the very beginning. 378 00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:41,880 Speaker 1: It was um, I'm gonna say it was not great 379 00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:44,359 Speaker 1: stream of consciousness because I knew. I knew what the 380 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:47,119 Speaker 1: chapters were. I remember I had done at table of contents, 381 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:50,600 Speaker 1: so I did not write long him had I did 382 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:53,960 Speaker 1: write on my computer. That's how I write everything. But 383 00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:57,560 Speaker 1: I will put the thoughts down and then I will 384 00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:02,600 Speaker 1: organize them on the computer. There are times when I 385 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:09,400 Speaker 1: will longhand right some things, but really I diagram on paper. 386 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:13,439 Speaker 1: So when I'm usually writing, like I'm writing a script 387 00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:18,359 Speaker 1: or screenplay, I will use my pad with my pen 388 00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:21,879 Speaker 1: to diagram the characters to make sure that the characters, 389 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 1: I'll have a different point of view to make sure 390 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:26,280 Speaker 1: that there's stakes they're involved. And so I have a 391 00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:29,600 Speaker 1: very specific diagram that I use that I think I 392 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:31,439 Speaker 1: outline in the book, but I don't show people in 393 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:34,120 Speaker 1: the book. And it's really just a lot of bubbles, 394 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:36,120 Speaker 1: you know. It's a lot of those circular things, And 395 00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:37,880 Speaker 1: I have a big circle in the center and then 396 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:41,600 Speaker 1: maybe four or five circles on the outside with little 397 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:43,960 Speaker 1: lines that come to them. But that's how I know 398 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:47,560 Speaker 1: that I'm not repeating character traits, that I know that 399 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:53,800 Speaker 1: everyone has a particular sound and in particular um function 400 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:56,879 Speaker 1: in the In the piece and doing the book, it 401 00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:01,960 Speaker 1: was just I followed the outline and kind of vomit 402 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:08,359 Speaker 1: draft drafted each section and then I like to have 403 00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:11,720 Speaker 1: a physical copy of it. So when I would do it, 404 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:14,720 Speaker 1: and I think part of that is I like to 405 00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:17,480 Speaker 1: print out each chapter so then I feel like I've 406 00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:22,080 Speaker 1: completed something. There's something about holding that piece of paper, yeah, 407 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:25,360 Speaker 1: And I feel like I remember the information better when 408 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:27,320 Speaker 1: I have it in my hand. So I would print 409 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:30,119 Speaker 1: out each section, added to a binder so that I 410 00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 1: spot so we can see. And but that's basically how 411 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:38,200 Speaker 1: I did. Kelly, what do you hope people take away 412 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 1: most from your book? I hope that people take away 413 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:49,800 Speaker 1: that a career as a writer in entertainment is doable. 414 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:55,040 Speaker 1: I've heard recently. I had a couple of conversations recently 415 00:22:55,080 --> 00:23:00,440 Speaker 1: with a couple of uh i'll say, middle aged dudes, 416 00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:07,120 Speaker 1: and they came and everything so with so much angst, 417 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:10,919 Speaker 1: and and they were saying things like, well, you know, 418 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:13,960 Speaker 1: the odds are against everybody. You know, these people aren't 419 00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:16,920 Speaker 1: going to be making it. And I thought, nobody comes 420 00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:19,600 Speaker 1: to Hollywood with that idea. Everybody thinks they can make it. 421 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:22,280 Speaker 1: Nobody packs up their car and thinks, wow, I'm going 422 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:25,359 Speaker 1: to drive across the country and fail exactly. And I 423 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:27,600 Speaker 1: do think that we are in a place where there's 424 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:31,360 Speaker 1: so much opportunity. Yes, you have to do the work. Yes, 425 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:33,719 Speaker 1: you have to be committed, you have to learn the craft, 426 00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:36,280 Speaker 1: you have to be personable, you have there are certain 427 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:38,840 Speaker 1: things you have to learn, how to accept rejection and 428 00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:41,560 Speaker 1: get up from it. That's right. But I've seen so 429 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:48,240 Speaker 1: many people, and I've seen this so much talent that 430 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:50,399 Speaker 1: I know that there are people out there who just 431 00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:52,240 Speaker 1: need a shot. And if I can give them a 432 00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:54,560 Speaker 1: little bit more of an edge to get that shot. 433 00:23:55,680 --> 00:24:01,200 Speaker 1: They should take it that. If you have a dream 434 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:03,439 Speaker 1: to write and you are committed to that dream, now 435 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:06,520 Speaker 1: everybody's committed. Sometimes people think that they're committed and they go, 436 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:08,639 Speaker 1: I don't really I don't really love the lifestyle. I 437 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:11,119 Speaker 1: don't really love not having a job. It's hard to 438 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:13,560 Speaker 1: keep your bottom in the seat and write like it 439 00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:15,880 Speaker 1: really is. Yes, but if you are one of those 440 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:18,560 Speaker 1: people who desperately wants to do it and that you're 441 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:21,160 Speaker 1: gonna die if you don't do it, then you need 442 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:24,080 Speaker 1: to know that the door is open. The door is open. 443 00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:28,600 Speaker 1: And I just cannot stand the fact that for so 444 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:32,600 Speaker 1: long this industry has had gatekeepers that have kept people out. 445 00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:36,560 Speaker 1: And then yes, I see you know. And when I 446 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:40,359 Speaker 1: was running the HBO Access program every other year, I 447 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:46,200 Speaker 1: would get thirty hundred submissions, and of those DRED submissions, 448 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:50,760 Speaker 1: we're really good. Those people people could make have it tomorrow. 449 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:54,920 Speaker 1: Ten percent were excellent. Ten percent, We're just everybody could 450 00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:57,560 Speaker 1: have been in the program. The talent is out there. 451 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:00,040 Speaker 1: And if you tell people that they can't come, that 452 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:02,160 Speaker 1: we're gonna shut you down before you can get started, 453 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:04,920 Speaker 1: then you won't find any survey and you won't find 454 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:07,920 Speaker 1: I mean Joseph Sawyer like, there's so many people that 455 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:10,960 Speaker 1: that all of us knew about before they even broke out. 456 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,200 Speaker 1: But if we shut them down before they became who 457 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:18,199 Speaker 1: they are, imagine what we would have lost. So I 458 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:21,640 Speaker 1: always saw my job sitting in that space at HBO 459 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:25,000 Speaker 1: as a person who validated other people's dreams. And so 460 00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:27,439 Speaker 1: many times people would come in and they would be 461 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:30,399 Speaker 1: nervous or they'd be sitting and even executives. I've got 462 00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:33,440 Speaker 1: plenty of executives or people who came from very disparate, 463 00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:36,720 Speaker 1: weird places in the industry or the country, like you 464 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:40,359 Speaker 1: would go, that's like why why the world? When they 465 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:43,840 Speaker 1: come from wherever they came from, and they ended up here. 466 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:47,840 Speaker 1: And so almost every one of those people, all they 467 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:50,719 Speaker 1: wanted was someone to validate their dream and then when 468 00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:53,159 Speaker 1: they went for it and they pursued it, they made it. 469 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:55,639 Speaker 1: So who am I to tell you that you can't. 470 00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:58,160 Speaker 1: I'm not that person. I can't tell you that you can't. 471 00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,040 Speaker 1: I'm telling you that if you wanted bad enough, if 472 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:03,119 Speaker 1: you're willing to do the work, and if you and 473 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:04,840 Speaker 1: I'm going to give you a couple extra tools in 474 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:07,120 Speaker 1: this book so that it's going to help you navigate 475 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:10,760 Speaker 1: it a little bit better. I've seen so many people 476 00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:15,120 Speaker 1: make a go of it, and I'm a perfect example. 477 00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:20,320 Speaker 1: My parents were dentists. I'm not. It's not like I'm 478 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:23,280 Speaker 1: you know, some genius person who you know. I'm not 479 00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:26,000 Speaker 1: like a one in a million kind of person. I'm 480 00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:30,720 Speaker 1: average girl pretty much right, So if I could make 481 00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:33,280 Speaker 1: it and all the things were stacked against me, I'm 482 00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:38,160 Speaker 1: a woman, I'm a woman of color, I'm relatively short. 483 00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:43,600 Speaker 1: Really here, I'm but if i've I can love it 484 00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:46,440 Speaker 1: as much and get in and we weasel my way 485 00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:50,480 Speaker 1: in and make a go of this. Pretty much anybody can, 486 00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:53,080 Speaker 1: but you have to really want it. You have to 487 00:26:53,119 --> 00:27:03,200 Speaker 1: do the work. Yeah. Thanks for listening. Be sure to 488 00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:06,159 Speaker 1: leave us a review at Apple Podcasts. We love to 489 00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:08,680 Speaker 1: hear from listeners, and be sure to tune in next 490 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:11,160 Speaker 1: week for another episode of Strictly Business.