Speaker 1: Welcome to Noble Blood, a production of iHeartRadio and Grim
Speaker 1: and Mild from Aaron Mankie. Listener discretion advised. Most nights,
Speaker 1: the woman covered in veils goes out walking under cover
Speaker 1: of darkness. It's Paris eighteen seventy nine. Sometimes the woman's
Speaker 1: dog is on a leash beside her. Occasionally a police
Speaker 1: officer stops her. She is malingering with vagrants? Is she
Speaker 1: a vagrant? She scoffs and walks on. She will name
Speaker 1: a series of vindictive photos after the area police. Later,
Speaker 1: she promises herself, with thoughts of this sweet justice in
Speaker 1: her head, she walks on. Finally, the dog pulls at
Speaker 1: the leash. There home twenty six beasts vendant, Furtively trying
Speaker 1: to keep the veil across her face. The woman opens
Speaker 1: the first locked door to her apartment, then the second,
Speaker 1: then the third. She closes herself in with the dog.
Speaker 1: Only once she's safely locked away behind three doors does
Speaker 1: she removed the veils. She doesn't have to worry about
Speaker 1: seeing what she looks like. Her walls are painted black,
Speaker 1: she has no mirrors or reflective surfaces. She's an old woman,
Speaker 1: she believes, though really she's only in her forties. In
Speaker 1: her mind, she only wants to see herself as she was,
Speaker 1: and photos of her younger self cover the walls. The
Speaker 1: woman looks at one of the photographs and breathes a
Speaker 1: sigh of relief. Yes, there she was a young woman
Speaker 1: who's beauty was famous in Italy and then France. Pale,
Speaker 1: round cheeks, eyes rumored to be either bright green or
Speaker 1: piercing violet, slim waist, draped in evening gowns and costumes.
Speaker 1: A smile crosses the older woman's lips before she closes
Speaker 1: her eyes for the night. She is Virginia Oldoni, the
Speaker 1: Countess of Castilione. In her youth, she was as famous
Speaker 1: for her beauty as she was her vanity. She was
Speaker 1: the mistress of King Vittorio Emmanuel, the second King of
Speaker 1: Sardinia and later of Italy, but that wasn't her most
Speaker 1: prominent conquest. As a teenager, she was personally dispatched from
Speaker 1: Italy to France to become the mistress of Emperor Louis
Speaker 1: Napoleon the Third, to whisper into his ear that he
Speaker 1: must support Italian unification. She had taken him easily, She
Speaker 1: had done her duty. She had been kicked out of court. Eventually, yes,
Speaker 1: but the Kingdom of Italy had united and Louis Napoleon
Speaker 1: had supported it. But as she grew older, she grew strange,
Speaker 1: perhaps mentally ill. Unable to handle the loss of her
Speaker 1: youth and political role, she bankrupted her husband and left him.
Speaker 1: Before he died, she dressed head to foot as a
Speaker 1: hermit in her last public appearance, before consigning herself to
Speaker 1: walk the streets of Paris only by night. She became
Speaker 1: obsessed with recreating her own images in photography, in art
Speaker 1: form then in its early days, she was dressed in
Speaker 1: scenes from her own past life, directed and retouched the
Speaker 1: photographs herself, and she continued to take these photos long
Speaker 1: after everyone believed that she was too old to pull
Speaker 1: it off. After her death, one man became so obsessed
Speaker 1: with her that he bought plaster casts of her legs
Speaker 1: and displayed them in a self made museum. In the
Speaker 1: history of photography, La Castilione was like an early Cindy Sherman.
Speaker 1: There were no selfies in the second half of the
Speaker 1: nineteenth century. Being photographed was a big deal for a
Speaker 1: private person who was not a celebrity, and though she
Speaker 1: had been renowned for a time. La Castilione may be
Speaker 1: the single most photographed private person of the eighteen hundreds.
Speaker 1: The story of the Countess Virginia Aldoni is the story
Speaker 1: of what it meant to be a woman whose youth
Speaker 1: and beauty was used to attract importance, men to play
Speaker 1: political games, and whose youth and beauty ultimately faded as
Speaker 1: they tend to do. But there were no plastic surgery
Speaker 1: drop in centers offering botox and a bikini wax in one.
Speaker 1: But there was early photography, There was costume paint, and
Speaker 1: there was a woman testing how much control she actually
Speaker 1: had over her own image, over the fading of her
Speaker 1: famous light. I'm Dana Schwartz, and this is noble blood.
Speaker 1: Virginia Elizabeta Luisa Carlata Antonetta Teresa Maria Aldone Rappollini was
Speaker 1: born on March twenty second, eighteen thirty seven, to an
Speaker 1: aristocratic family in Florence. By age sixteen, her parents encouraged
Speaker 1: her to marry Francesco Barassis Assinari, Count of Castiglioni. One
Speaker 1: year after the wedding, at age seventeen, in eighteen fifty five,
Speaker 1: the new Countess gave birth to their only child, Georgio,
Speaker 1: the Count, was a widower more than a decade older
Speaker 1: than Virginia. He was infatuated with her, but she never
Speaker 1: loved him and barely pretended to. Young Virginia had always
Speaker 1: been a great beauty, and she knew it. Her prenup
Speaker 1: guaranteed that she could still go about in society however
Speaker 1: she wanted. So. If Virginia's parents hoped that marriage would
Speaker 1: rein in ment attraction to their daughter, they were sorely mistaken.
Speaker 1: The Countess was young, beautiful, and vain. She spoke Italian
Speaker 1: and French and unaccented English, and she was never going
Speaker 1: to be happy sitting home as the wife of an
Speaker 1: old count. Within a year of Giorgio's birth, she moved
Speaker 1: to Paris. Officially, she was visiting her cousin. Unofficially, she
Speaker 1: had a much more important mission. When Virginia was born,
Speaker 1: the area we know today as modern Italy was comprised
Speaker 1: of several states controlled by Naples, Austria, and the Pope.
Speaker 1: Florence was located in the Kingdom of Sardinia and Piedmont,
Speaker 1: ruled by King Vittorio Emmanuel the Second. The king was
Speaker 1: only one of the many lovers that Virginia would take
Speaker 1: over the years. It was his Prime minister Camillo Cavour
Speaker 1: who hatched the plan for the countess. She would be
Speaker 1: sent to France, where she would intimately involve herself in
Speaker 1: the court of Emperor Louis Napoleon the Third. She would,
Speaker 1: in short, get the ear of the French Emperor. Then
Speaker 1: she would convince him to support the unification of the
Speaker 1: Kingdom of Italy under Vittorio Emmanuel. The Countess wasn't yet
Speaker 1: twenty when she received her assignment. She must have felt
Speaker 1: at least partially thrilled to receive a secret code from
Speaker 1: the Prime Minister so that she could communicate with him
Speaker 1: while in Paris. She would have listened carefully to his instructions.
Speaker 1: Quote succeed by whatever means you wish, but succeed, And
Speaker 1: she must have understood whatever means you wish. He had said,
Speaker 1: she was a great beauty. More than anything else he
Speaker 1: meant seduction. On February fifth, eighteen fifty six, then eighteen
Speaker 1: year old Countess Virginia Castilioni arrived at a masked ball
Speaker 1: on the Champs Elise. The room was filled with a
Speaker 1: wristocrats in Mardi Gras masks. The Countess knew that she
Speaker 1: was a vision, so she ignored the women in the room.
Speaker 1: She looked right past most of them, and then caught
Speaker 1: the eye of the only man she cared about, the Emperor,
Speaker 1: Louis Napoleon the Third. Yes he was married to Empress Eugenie,
Speaker 1: who was eight months pregnant. Yes, he was involved and
Speaker 1: distracted in ending the Crimean War. It didn't matter. She
Speaker 1: smiled at him flirtatiously, and he turned toward her. In
Speaker 1: the months to come, sellacious rumors would swirl about the
Speaker 1: Countess's beauty, her vanity, her elaborate costumes, and her seduction
Speaker 1: of France's emperor, one general said quote. Infatuated with herself,
Speaker 1: always classically draped, she would appear at gatherings like a
Speaker 1: goddess descended from the clouds. She would allow people to
Speaker 1: admire her as if she were a shrine, but as
Speaker 1: soon as the Emperor or Empress approached, her face would
Speaker 1: be transformed. She seemed to be saying to all, I
Speaker 1: am not here for you. I am of a different essence.
Speaker 1: I know only the sovereign and his consort. End quote.
Speaker 1: In June eighteen fifty six, Empress Eugenie made the mistake
Speaker 1: of inviting Virginia to a garden party. Louis Napoleon invited
Speaker 1: the Countess to a boat ride, rowed her out to
Speaker 1: an island in the lake, and disappeared with her for hours.
Speaker 1: It was an incredibly flagrant public outing of their affair. Unsurprisingly,
Speaker 1: Virginia found herself hated by the Empress. On February seventeenth,
Speaker 1: eighteen fifty seven, Virginia had arrived at a costume ble
Speaker 1: dressed as the Queen of Hearts. Scandalously for the time,
Speaker 1: she wore no corset and no crinoline. Chains around the
Speaker 1: bodice of her dress formed heart shapes, the neckline plunged shockingly.
Speaker 1: She wore her hair down around her shoulders. Empress Eugenie
Speaker 1: had cutting words for her. The heart is a little low, Countess.
Speaker 1: But the Empress wasn't always so cutting. She despaired about
Speaker 1: her husband's affair with the Countess, at one point saying,
Speaker 1: I have tried everything, even to make him jealous. It
Speaker 1: made no difference. I can't take any more. But a
Speaker 1: man with a wandering eye has a tendency to wander.
Speaker 1: Only ten days after the Countess's success as the Queen
Speaker 1: of hearts. At the eighteen fifty seven Mardi Gras ball,
Speaker 1: Louis Napoleon's affections wandered on to someone new, the Countess Wallesca,
Speaker 1: an affair that would continue for seven years. After that,
Speaker 1: La Castiliani's days at the French court were numbered. It
Speaker 1: may have been her first taste of not being the favorite,
Speaker 1: of being passed over for another woman. She didn't like it.
Speaker 1: She had not forgotten her charge to whisper in the
Speaker 1: Emperor's ear about unification of Italy. She believed that she
Speaker 1: was playing an important geopolitical role. Unfortunately for the Countess,
Speaker 1: the French used that role against her. On April sixth,
Speaker 1: eighteen fifty seven, Louis Napoleon was leaving Virginia's residence at
Speaker 1: three in the morning when the Italian Carbonari made an
Speaker 1: attempt on his life. Virginia almost certainly had nothing to
Speaker 1: do with the assassination attempt, but Louis Napoleon was through
Speaker 1: with her anyway. She was banished from the French court
Speaker 1: and would have of the Emperor's ear no longer. The
Speaker 1: Countess Castilioni's banishment from French court was the beginning of
Speaker 1: the end of her very brief life as a political figure.
Speaker 1: Her husband went back to Italy, but she refused to
Speaker 1: live with him there. She and her son Georgia were
Speaker 1: living separately in Turin when in eighteen fifty nine Louis
Speaker 1: Napoleon sent French troops in support of Italy against Austria.
Speaker 1: In eighteen sixty one, Victorio Emmanuel became king of a
Speaker 1: united Italy. The Countess believed she had played an important
Speaker 1: role in this victory. Historians tend not to agree. In
Speaker 1: eighteen sixty one, the Countess and Georgio returned to France
Speaker 1: again without her husband, the count They moved to a
Speaker 1: suburb of Paris called Passe, near the photographer Pierre Louis Pierson,
Speaker 1: and here this second act of her life began, the
Speaker 1: part that she is actually most famous. For five years earlier,
Speaker 1: when she had been the favorite of the Emperor, she
Speaker 1: had met with Pearson for a simple photography session in
Speaker 1: which she wore a standard black velvet dress. But that
Speaker 1: was then. Now she was out of favor with the
Speaker 1: Emperor and she felt her great beauty was going to waste,
Speaker 1: so she went back to the Mayor and Pearson portrait
Speaker 1: studio and for the next several years, she and Pearson
Speaker 1: undertook one of the largest serieses of photographs of a
Speaker 1: private person in the nineteenth century. She had him take
Speaker 1: over four hundred photographs, all of herself, and not just
Speaker 1: any photos of herself. In these photographs, she recreated the
Speaker 1: costumes of her earlier victories at court. She wore the
Speaker 1: famous Queen of Hearts dress all over again. It doesn't
Speaker 1: take a freud who was actually born the year the
Speaker 1: Countess first went to Pearson to analyze that she was
Speaker 1: trying to live in the past. She was trying to
Speaker 1: document her beauty. To prove it in front of the camera,
Speaker 1: the Countess posed herself in costume as a peasant, a
Speaker 1: noble woman fleeing a fire, characters from novels and plays.
Speaker 1: She lounged on chases and sat up in beds. Some
Speaker 1: especially salacious photos show her bearing gasp her naked leg.
Speaker 1: At the time, the only women's legs that a respectable
Speaker 1: person might see outside the bedroom or the brothel was
Speaker 1: at the ballet, and even then that could be almost
Speaker 1: as titillating as pornography. So too, as in the so
Speaker 1: many bedroom selfies that are sent across the Internet today,
Speaker 1: the photos that she took in which she showed her
Speaker 1: feet tended not to also include her face. Through all
Speaker 1: this work in the photography studio, the Countess's famous vanity
Speaker 1: only increased. At one point, she asked Pearson if he
Speaker 1: fully recognized that God is quote making you the collaborator
Speaker 1: of the most beautiful creature who has ever existed since
Speaker 1: the beginning of time end quote. It's quotes like that
Speaker 1: that I do feel our important context here, because often
Speaker 1: I think history has a knee jerk reaction to label
Speaker 1: beautiful women as vain. But in this case it is
Speaker 1: a label that seems especially apt. In a technique common
Speaker 1: for the time, the Countess ensured that the photos were
Speaker 1: painted over, so they were touched up and in color.
Speaker 1: She had Pearson photograph her son too, But even there,
Speaker 1: her famous vanity was unre relenting. The Countess would dress
Speaker 1: Giorgio up as her. A series of photos show him,
Speaker 1: at age seven, in a dress, his long hair flower pinned,
Speaker 1: clearly meant to look like his mother. Of the one
Speaker 1: hundred and ten photos of Georgio, some show him alone,
Speaker 1: some with the Countess, and only one also includes his father.
Speaker 1: During all this time, the Countess had taken lover after lover,
Speaker 1: but love itself seemingly was out of the question. I
Speaker 1: don't believe in love, she wrote. It's a malady that
Speaker 1: comes and goes little by little, or an intermittent fever.
Speaker 1: She was not loved in the Parisian court. Years into
Speaker 1: her return to France, at last she was invited to
Speaker 1: one ball. In eighteen sixty three, she appeared as the
Speaker 1: Queen of Etruria, a costume that she expected would dazzle
Speaker 1: but instead scandalized. Rumors spread that she'd almost been naked.
Speaker 1: To modern eyes, of course, the photos of the costume
Speaker 1: are laughably clothed. Only her arm from the shoulder is bare,
Speaker 1: and I will include photos in the episode script on
Speaker 1: our Patreon. Hearing about the costume from his post in Turin,
Speaker 1: her now estranged husband threatened to take their son, saying quote,
Speaker 1: I want to spare myself the status of husband to
Speaker 1: the beautiful countess. Shortly after, she mailed him a print
Speaker 1: of herself in the Queen of Etruria costume, this time
Speaker 1: holding a dagger. The photo is so striking that nearly
Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty years later, the Metropolitan Museum of
Speaker 1: Art used it as the cover of their catalog for
Speaker 1: the show about her in the year two thousand. The
Speaker 1: Countess titled the photo herself. She named it Vengeance. After that,
Speaker 1: the Countess appeared to go a little mad. In April
Speaker 1: eighteen sixty three, two months after the quote unquote Naked
Speaker 1: Queen of Vitrurian debacle, she arrived at one last event.
Speaker 1: Rumor swirled that she would show up naked. Instead, she
Speaker 1: dressed head to toe as a nun. She called herself
Speaker 1: the Hermit of Passe and was accompanied by a violinist
Speaker 1: playing Chopin's Funeral March. We can conceive of these events
Speaker 1: kind of like a modern met ball think of Kim Kardashian,
Speaker 1: who shows up sometimes channeling Marilyn Monroe and sometimes shrouded
Speaker 1: in black from head to toe. The Countess CASTILIONI did
Speaker 1: the same thing from the Queen of Hearts to complete
Speaker 1: hermit nun. She was an all or nothing person, all drama, nothing,
Speaker 1: balanced or in between. Later psychoanalysts would coin the term
Speaker 1: Madonna horr complex, though the Countess viewed herself more as
Speaker 1: a goddess or queen, a divine creation, and if she wasn't,
Speaker 1: then she didn't want to be seen at all. Her
Speaker 1: appearance as the Hermit of Pesse marked her final dramatic
Speaker 1: showing at a public ball. In eighteen sixty seven, her
Speaker 1: husband died. The next year, she locked herself away in
Speaker 1: the apartment at the Place Bendome, with the three doors
Speaker 1: between her and the world, and no mirrors and all
Speaker 1: black walls, which she covered in photos of her younger self.
Speaker 1: In eighteen seventy nine, her son died suddenly at the
Speaker 1: age of twenty four of smallpox. After that, if she
Speaker 1: did venture out, it was only under cover of night,
Speaker 1: shrouded in veils, with the company only of her dogs.
Speaker 1: In the eighteen nineties, the Countess returned to Pearson's studio,
Speaker 1: now in her fifties. The years had not been kind
Speaker 1: to the once famous beauty, but she came back to
Speaker 1: Pearson wanting what she had always wanted, more photographs, and
Speaker 1: so began a smaller series of photographs of the Countess
Speaker 1: wearing a younger woman's costumes, sometimes looking in a mirror
Speaker 1: or lifting her sleeve to contemplate her aged ugly arm.
Speaker 1: I say ugly in quotes, according to the catalogs and
Speaker 1: articles that I could find. Everyone talks about how horribly
Speaker 1: old and decrepit she had become. The met Catalog calls
Speaker 1: the photos quote a sorry spectacle, painful documents charting the
Speaker 1: course of a physical and mental decline. Her face has
Speaker 1: coarsened and her waist has thickened. A history of the
Speaker 1: modern portrait in nineteenth century France goes further, quote, it
Speaker 1: is difficult to comprehend what masochistic impulse could have incited
Speaker 1: her stout, toothless and virtually bald, to reappear before the
Speaker 1: camera and create grotesque countertypes of the earlier portraits. End quote.
Speaker 1: Here's the thing, listener, something weird I believe is going
Speaker 1: on here with history. The photos used as illustrations of
Speaker 1: her grotesquerie show a woman who is yes, clearly in
Speaker 1: her fifties, whose mouth yes, is closed, perhaps not showing teeth,
Speaker 1: and who yes, has gained some weight since her twenties.
Speaker 1: Maybe some of the off the shoulder sleeves and necklines
Speaker 1: aren't totally becoming, or perhaps they indicate that she's trying
Speaker 1: too hard. Maybe her eyes do look a little haunted
Speaker 1: or desperate or even mad, but she totally has hair,
Speaker 1: or she's wearing a very convincing hair piece. The dresses
Speaker 1: fit basically fine, and she's not ugly, certainly not grotesque,
Speaker 1: And if her expression is a little vacant, well, if
Speaker 1: you flip back in the catalog, I can tell you
Speaker 1: it's basically the same gaze she had in her younger photos.
Speaker 1: I believe art history itself seems to have fallen into
Speaker 1: the trap of which they accuse the countess disdaining a
Speaker 1: woman feeling unable to accept her for the simple crime
Speaker 1: of aging. She is only grotesque. I think if you
Speaker 1: think a woman in her fifties who looks like she's
Speaker 1: in her fifties is grotesque, or if you think a
Speaker 1: woman in her fifties who wants to be looked at
Speaker 1: is grotesque, I happen to think not. It's a good
Speaker 1: lesson in seeking primary sources, which because their photographs remain
Speaker 1: right there for us, unbiased by interpretation and analysis. To
Speaker 1: these photos, the Countess pinned paper to make herself look thinner,
Speaker 1: almost like an early Instagram edit. How much has really
Speaker 1: changed today? The reception of the later photos shows us
Speaker 1: how the world saw a woman who got older, and
Speaker 1: the Countess's actions prefigured how women might try to control
Speaker 1: how the world saw themselves pathetic and grotesque for a
Speaker 1: woman to grow old and age, and even more grotesque
Speaker 1: if an aging woman tries to look younger. Of course,
Speaker 1: the Countess was indeed somewhat mentally unstable by the time
Speaker 1: of these photo sessions. In eighteen ninety she titled one
Speaker 1: photo in the series, I Don't give a damn for
Speaker 1: the Police Commissioner. In place vendome, she photographed her own
Speaker 1: swollen feet from the perspective of a corpse looking down
Speaker 1: in a casket. It would be comic and even smart
Speaker 1: if she had any sense of irony about it. Art
Speaker 1: history does not suggest that she did. At the end
Speaker 1: of her life, she wanted an exhibit of the photographs
Speaker 1: of her to be called the most beautiful woman of
Speaker 1: the century. She died first on November twenty eighth, eighteen
Speaker 1: ninety nine, at the age of sixty two. After her death,
Speaker 1: she became the subject of plays and books, and in
Speaker 1: the mid twentieth century several Hollywood films. She prefigured Cindy
Speaker 1: Sherman and other photographers who made themselves the subject as
Speaker 1: photography continue to develop as an art form, although perhaps
Speaker 1: they did it with more self awareness. In two thousand,
Speaker 1: the Metropolitan Museum of Art exhibited her photographs in twenty sixteen.
Speaker 1: The novelist Alexander Chief used her as a character in
Speaker 1: his novel The Queen of the Night, alongside a cover
Speaker 1: image that is one of her photographs from a masked ball.
Speaker 1: And her most artistic photo of all is one you
Speaker 1: may have seen in the past sixty years. It's become
Speaker 1: an icon of modern photography. It's a photo of a
Speaker 1: glamorous woman holding an oval cutout in front of one
Speaker 1: eye and peering through directly at the viewer. Covered and exposed.
Speaker 1: And so the Countess did become an icon, a niche
Speaker 1: one in the end. Yet upon her death it's not
Speaker 1: clear that was what she wanted anymore. The Countess of Castilioni,
Speaker 1: Virginia Aldoni, famous narcissist, asked for no priest, no fanfare,
Speaker 1: not even a mention of her death in the newspaper.
Speaker 1: Her wishes were ignored. People did talk. That's the story
Speaker 1: of the Countess de Castiliani, but stick around after a
Speaker 1: brief sponsor break to hear about one of her most
Speaker 1: obsessive posthumous admirers. After the Countess's death, newspapers and auction
Speaker 1: houses cataloged her life and its objects. But one man
Speaker 1: beat out all others in his intense, rather creepy, posthumous
Speaker 1: obsession with the Countess. The Comte Montexieu Fizonzac was a
Speaker 1: poet and a dandy who never met the Countess in life,
Speaker 1: but upon her death he said he felt, quote time
Speaker 1: is running out. I must act. At the hour appointed
Speaker 1: for the closing of the casket. I went up the
Speaker 1: tiny staircase at Vassin. In the middle of the bedroom.
Speaker 1: On the floor was a coffin about to be closed.
Speaker 1: There was for me a flash of light in the
Speaker 1: brief glimpse of the pale, beautiful, noble, solemn face of death,
Speaker 1: on the point of vanishing forever end quote. Monticxieu took
Speaker 1: post death obsession to another level. He collected every artifact
Speaker 1: of the Countesses that he could, including and this is
Speaker 1: just a partial list, the nightgown that she had asked
Speaker 1: to be buried in, pieces of her actual coffin, plaster
Speaker 1: casts of her feet and arms, the key to her apartment,
Speaker 1: a shoe from her famous Queen of Hearts costume, and
Speaker 1: four hundred and thirty four photographs. He wrote and published
Speaker 1: a book about her La divine comtesse in nineteen thirteen,
Speaker 1: but the only person he was more obsessed with than
Speaker 1: her was himself. He aimed to be the most photographed
Speaker 1: person in the world. The Countess's narcissism inspired nothing so
Speaker 1: much in him, but more narcissism. Noble Blood is a
Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio and Grimm and Mild from Aaron Manke.
Speaker 1: Noble Blood is created and hosted by me Dana Schwartz,
Speaker 1: with additional writing and researching by Hannah Johnston, Hannah Zwick,
Speaker 1: Mira Hayward, Courtney Sender, and Lori Goodman. The show is
Speaker 1: edited and produced by Noemi Griffin and rima Il Kahali,
Speaker 1: with supervising producer Josh Thain and executive producers Aaron Manke,
Speaker 1: Alex Williams, and Matt Frederick. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.