1 00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:08,720 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg p m L Podcast. I'm pim Fox. 2 00:00:08,760 --> 00:00:11,520 Speaker 1: Along with my co host Lisa Bramowitz. Each day we 3 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 1: bring you the most important, noteworthy, and useful interviews for 4 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 1: you and your money, whether you're at the grocery store 5 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 1: or the trading floor. Find the Bloomberg p m L 6 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:34,080 Speaker 1: Podcast on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, and Bloomberg dot com. President 7 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:38,320 Speaker 1: Trump tweeting this morning that he hopes that John Brennan 8 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 1: uh in President Trump's awards the worst CI director in 9 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:44,320 Speaker 1: our country's history, brings a lawsuit. It will be then 10 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:47,239 Speaker 1: be very easy to get all of his records, texts, emails, 11 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:49,720 Speaker 1: and documents to show not only the poor job he did, 12 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:52,960 Speaker 1: but how he was involved with the mother rigged witch hunt. 13 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 1: He won't sue. He went on further to talk about 14 00:00:56,440 --> 00:00:59,480 Speaker 1: how everybody wants their security clearance and why it's important 15 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 1: to strip certain people of it. Joining us now, I'm 16 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 1: very pleased to say, is Admiral James Staffriti's a Bloomberg 17 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 1: opinion columnist, also a retired U S. Navy admiral and 18 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 1: former military commando of NATO. He is the author of 19 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:17,039 Speaker 1: Sea Power, The History and Geopolitics of the world's oceans, 20 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:19,199 Speaker 1: and he also is one of more than one hundred 21 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:22,080 Speaker 1: and seventy five former State Department and Penticot officials who 22 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:24,240 Speaker 1: have added their names to a statement signed by national 23 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 1: security officials criticizing President Trump's decision to provoke security clearance 24 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:31,880 Speaker 1: to a number of people, including John Brennan, Admiral. Thank 25 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:34,679 Speaker 1: you so much for joining us. What a pleasure, Lisa, 26 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:38,440 Speaker 1: I would love to just start with, how important is 27 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:42,120 Speaker 1: it to the nation, aside from just a personal issue, uh, 28 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:47,640 Speaker 1: that there are these attacks on former intelligence officers and 29 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:50,880 Speaker 1: a revocation of their security clearance. I think it's a 30 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:55,040 Speaker 1: mistake from really a very pragmatic point of view, Lisa, 31 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 1: as follows um, when you have an important job, I 32 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:01,240 Speaker 1: was the Supreme ali Ander of NATO. I had three 33 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 1: million troops working for ME, Afghanistan, Libya, the Balkan Syria Piracy. 34 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:09,080 Speaker 1: When you have that kind of job, you need help, 35 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 1: you need advice. And I was able to pick up 36 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:15,960 Speaker 1: the phone and call former Supreme Allied commanders, going all 37 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:18,680 Speaker 1: the way back to General West Clark and get good 38 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 1: advice from them because they still had security clearances. That's 39 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 1: the idea of this. So if we strip away security clearances. UM, 40 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:31,960 Speaker 1: it'll chill the ability of people in big important jobs 41 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 1: to reach to their predecessors. And I think that's a 42 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:38,840 Speaker 1: real mistake. Leaving aside the politics of this, which are 43 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:41,840 Speaker 1: not very good. In addition to that very pragmatic point, 44 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:47,040 Speaker 1: what's morale like? What is morale like? I think morale 45 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:52,000 Speaker 1: is concerned would be the way I would use the term. 46 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 1: From top to bottom. The national security, UH, establishment is 47 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:02,520 Speaker 1: concerned about more than any seeing the erratic nature of policy. 48 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:04,840 Speaker 1: You know, there are some things that President Trump is 49 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:08,680 Speaker 1: doing that makes sense, going after the Islamic State, negotiating 50 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 1: with Kim Jung not unleashing fire and fury um, but 51 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:16,440 Speaker 1: there are other things that we disagree with. It's that 52 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:20,080 Speaker 1: um up and down, back and forth, the whipsaw effect 53 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 1: of policy. And I think this feeds into that sense. 54 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:27,440 Speaker 1: And Lisa, it's how it's viewed from overseas audit concern 55 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 1: US Admiral Sturdi is uh. We just are getting word 56 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 1: that Turkey is launching a World Trade Organization dispute against 57 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:41,720 Speaker 1: the US regarding the still and aluminum tariffs. I'm just wondering. 58 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 1: I'd love to get your thoughts on Turkey as the 59 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 1: former military commando of NATO and Uh, your thoughts on 60 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 1: the idea of Turkey leaving NATO are becoming less allied 61 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 1: with the United States going forward? What do you think 62 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 1: about that? Yeah, three key points, Lisa. First, Turkey has 63 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 1: historically been a very strong member of the Alliance and 64 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 1: a very strong partner to the United States and to 65 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 1: the other twenty seven nations of the Alliance. And I 66 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 1: say that very practically having seen Turkish troops, Turkish sailors, 67 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 1: Turkish airmen fighting alongside NATO troops in Afghanistan, Libya, the 68 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:22,800 Speaker 1: Balkans on countervirusy missions. They're very capable, um point to. 69 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:26,840 Speaker 1: Under President Urduwan, they are drifting away from the Alliance, 70 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:29,159 Speaker 1: and that ought to concern us very deeply. And that 71 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:32,279 Speaker 1: gets us to point three, which is the drift is 72 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 1: getting closer and closer to Russia. We see a Turkey 73 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:40,400 Speaker 1: buying advanced air defense systems from Russia. We see a 74 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 1: lot of collaboration between President Urduan and President Putin that 75 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:48,160 Speaker 1: ought to really concern us UM in terms of this 76 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:53,159 Speaker 1: particular dispute which kind of centers around UH, a preacher 77 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:58,560 Speaker 1: who has been unjustly incarcerated in Turkey. President Trump is 78 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:01,240 Speaker 1: correct to go after the Turk high and hard about that, 79 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:03,360 Speaker 1: but we ought to be doing that in a way 80 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 1: that recognizes the fundamental importance of Turkey to the Alliance. UM. 81 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:10,359 Speaker 1: I think we can get our way through this. The 82 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:13,679 Speaker 1: number one prescription is let's get an ambassador in Turkey. 83 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 1: We don't have one there yet. We need to land 84 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:19,720 Speaker 1: this one diplomatically. Well, Admiral, I want to I want 85 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 1: to go a little bit further with that. Let's say 86 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:26,480 Speaker 1: Russia does become much closer with Turkey. What's the potential 87 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:29,719 Speaker 1: consequence of that in the worst case scenario from your 88 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:33,279 Speaker 1: vantage point, Yeah, I think worst case, and it's probably 89 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:37,840 Speaker 1: approaching a ten to possibility, would be Turkey leaving the 90 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 1: NATO Alliance. Again, I don't predict that. Let's say it's 91 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:45,640 Speaker 1: an they stay in. But I'm shocked I'm saying these 92 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:49,719 Speaker 1: words publicly. It's very concerning that we are at this past. 93 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 1: At the end of the day, I think the geopolitical 94 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 1: balance will tip in favor of Turkey remaining in the 95 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:01,479 Speaker 1: Alliance because of the economics, Russia really doesn't have that 96 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 1: much to offer Turkey. UM. I am hopeful that President 97 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:07,560 Speaker 1: Urdwan will realize that in the time to come in 98 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:11,039 Speaker 1: the geopolitics will outweigh the emotion of the moment. Admiral 99 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 1: just in about a minute. Why would it be bad 100 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:16,600 Speaker 1: at Turkey LEFTNATO? UH? First of all, their capability they 101 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 1: have the second largest army in the Alliance after the 102 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 1: United States UH. Secondly, their geopolitical position they sit right 103 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:27,360 Speaker 1: on the border with the most troubled region. And thirdly 104 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 1: the symbology. We've never had a nation leave NATO. To 105 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:34,039 Speaker 1: have a big, important one like Turkey be the first 106 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 1: would be disastrous for the Alliance. Admiral James Taffritis, thank 107 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:39,640 Speaker 1: you so much for being with me. I wish we 108 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 1: had another hour to hear your your thoughts, because you 109 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:45,799 Speaker 1: come with such a rich perspective of what's going on 110 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:48,920 Speaker 1: both internationally as well as domestically. Admiral James Tefriti is 111 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:53,039 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Opinion calumnist, retired U S. Navy Admiral and former 112 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 1: military commando of NATO. He also is the author of 113 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:01,840 Speaker 1: the recent book See Power, The History and Geopolitics of 114 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 1: the World's Oceans, shutting light on a really important point, 115 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:10,760 Speaker 1: which is the strategic importance of oceans and how that 116 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 1: could be changing. Well, semiconductor shares have been really taking 117 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 1: a blow on the head again and again in the 118 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:34,400 Speaker 1: past few sessions, and we can see that again today 119 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 1: in video shares leading the way down nearly two declines 120 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:41,560 Speaker 1: following nearly five percent decline on Friday. The question is 121 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 1: why and is it justified? Is this just a bitcoin 122 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 1: freak out or is this something deeper? And I'm so 123 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 1: happy that we have David Garretty here with us. He's 124 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 1: chief executive of g v A Research based in Brooke. Actually, no, 125 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 1: he moved. He moved to Manhattan and he is here 126 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 1: in our eleven three oh studios UH in New York 127 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 1: City right now. David, what do you think is the 128 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:04,240 Speaker 1: significance of the recent declines that we've seen in the 129 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 1: semin conductor companies. Well, I think when you look at 130 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 1: the global economy and you look at the important sectors 131 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:12,920 Speaker 1: of a technology, is certainly become more important as a 132 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 1: sector over time. Much as people have talked about the 133 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:20,760 Speaker 1: decrease or decline in copper prices since early June by 134 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 1: about as being indicative of an industrial economy slowdown, we 135 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:28,840 Speaker 1: take the view that when you look at semiconductors, there's 136 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 1: a technology sector related slowdown which certainly is being affected 137 00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:37,800 Speaker 1: by the deceleration and the economy in China because of 138 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:40,439 Speaker 1: the expected impact around some of these tariffs that we've 139 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 1: been seeing. And so from that standpoint, um, you know, 140 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:48,800 Speaker 1: we tend to look at semiconductors as being an economically 141 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 1: sensitive commodity category, albeit of a highly finished kind. So 142 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:56,680 Speaker 1: are you are you saying that the weakness that we've 143 00:08:56,720 --> 00:09:01,440 Speaker 1: seen of late suggests or points to either a slowdown 144 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:06,040 Speaker 1: in tech consumption broadly or you know, specifically a slowdown 145 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:09,160 Speaker 1: in the broader Chinese economy. We would see as being 146 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:12,480 Speaker 1: a slowdown clearly of tech consumption and would argue that 147 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:14,960 Speaker 1: perhaps in this case, this is a slowdown in tech 148 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:19,840 Speaker 1: consumptions being more specifically perhaps in the greater China markets 149 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 1: or those markets that would be affected by tariffs. There 150 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 1: may be some spillover depending upon how the tariffs have 151 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:29,960 Speaker 1: unfolded other geographic areas outside of China. Because clearly what 152 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:33,079 Speaker 1: the current US administration has been doing has been basically 153 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 1: going after any and all global trading partners with tariffs 154 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:41,160 Speaker 1: being imposed. All of this has created economic uncertainty. All 155 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:44,839 Speaker 1: this arguably is serving to suppress consumption or demand. Really 156 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:47,560 Speaker 1: interesting and sort of raises a lot of questions about 157 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 1: the smartphone supercycle as well as car production, I mean, 158 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:54,160 Speaker 1: all the things that chips are in. Really it raises 159 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:56,320 Speaker 1: some questions for and definitely as an area to watch. 160 00:09:56,480 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 1: But since we're in China, let's talk about Google going 161 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:01,199 Speaker 1: to China. They made it decision in two thousand and 162 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 1: ten not to have their search engine in that country 163 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:05,800 Speaker 1: because of some of the sanctions and the things that 164 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 1: they would have to follow, the protocol they'd have to 165 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:12,600 Speaker 1: follow with censorship. Now they're rethinking that decision. What gives 166 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:15,480 Speaker 1: what a difference? Eight years makes? What a difference that 167 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:20,200 Speaker 1: the rise of Baidu and other sort of China national 168 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:24,720 Speaker 1: tech champions has had upon Google And the fact that 169 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 1: there seems to have been the decision made internally with 170 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:29,720 Speaker 1: Google that while the mantra might have been starting off 171 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:33,199 Speaker 1: to do no evil, well, everything has a price. And 172 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:36,000 Speaker 1: the fact is, at the end of the day, Google's 173 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:40,240 Speaker 1: business model is based upon tracking users and so gathering data. 174 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:43,840 Speaker 1: And when it comes to looking at uh state sponsored 175 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:48,800 Speaker 1: surveillance of populations, you know, Google is essentially saying, well, chucks, 176 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:52,160 Speaker 1: this is something that we're doing in effect for ourselves already. 177 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:55,080 Speaker 1: So you know, to the extent that perhaps this is 178 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:57,840 Speaker 1: something that might be applicable in the case of meeting 179 00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:01,079 Speaker 1: the demands of a client such as the Chinese eight um, 180 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:04,120 Speaker 1: it may not necessarily be all that wide a gap 181 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:08,800 Speaker 1: to bridge. In other words, they're okay with certain censorships 182 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 1: that they weren't okay with in two thousand and ten 183 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:13,680 Speaker 1: because the business opportunity is too great for them to ignore. 184 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:16,960 Speaker 1: There is that, and there's also the fact that Google says, 185 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 1: we're already in a position to be able to track 186 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:23,600 Speaker 1: individuals online activities and behaviors. And if what the client 187 00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 1: wants to do is to, you know, put some filters 188 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 1: on this client being the Chinese cover client being the 189 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:32,440 Speaker 1: Chinese government in this case, because there's significant Chinese ownership, 190 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:36,760 Speaker 1: Chinese government ownership in the Chinese Internet, and from the 191 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:40,320 Speaker 1: standpoint that the client wishes to put these filters in place, well, 192 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:42,840 Speaker 1: you know who's Google to say no. I mean, certainly 193 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 1: this falls in part and parcel in some respects with 194 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:48,200 Speaker 1: kind of the debate that's been going on within social 195 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 1: media is that you know what really constitutes speech and 196 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:54,480 Speaker 1: you know, should we be in the business of arbitrating 197 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:57,839 Speaker 1: what speech is or is not to be so talking 198 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:00,719 Speaker 1: about tracking clients. We were talking when you came in 199 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:04,760 Speaker 1: today about Netflix and how they're sort of this conundrum 200 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:07,800 Speaker 1: facing a number of social media companies and others in 201 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 1: the tech world, including Netflix, of how much to crack 202 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:16,360 Speaker 1: down on fuzzy numbers about users and subscribers versus how 203 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:19,880 Speaker 1: much to monetize, Uh, you know what you have and Netflix, 204 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:22,560 Speaker 1: you were saying, has a lot of subscribers who share 205 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:26,120 Speaker 1: their passwords with other people, meaning that if Netflix were 206 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 1: to crack down, they could get a lot more revenues. 207 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:29,840 Speaker 1: So why wouldn't they You lay at the issue right, 208 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:32,200 Speaker 1: I mean, the estimates are that you know, Netflix has 209 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:35,600 Speaker 1: lost revenue from account sharing is something in the order 210 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:39,080 Speaker 1: of about five million dollars a year. So this for 211 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:41,560 Speaker 1: a company like Netflix, given their losses, you know, it 212 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:46,320 Speaker 1: could be a substantial benefit from financial performance perspective. Looking 213 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 1: at this problem from a demographic perspective, we see that 214 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:53,840 Speaker 1: users who are baby boomers in terms of that demographic cohort, 215 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:57,480 Speaker 1: according to recent surveys, you might share thirteen of them 216 00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:03,079 Speaker 1: might share account information. But when you get to younger demographics, 217 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:06,960 Speaker 1: say under twenty one, that number actually goes with up 218 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:10,160 Speaker 1: to forty two. The problem is is that as the 219 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:14,120 Speaker 1: baby boomers age out, you're left with a user base 220 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:17,880 Speaker 1: who has an expectation that content is going to be free. 221 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:21,760 Speaker 1: The question here is this might represent something of a 222 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 1: threat in terms of the business models of these companies 223 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:28,400 Speaker 1: unless they can do something to promote better consumer behavior 224 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:32,199 Speaker 1: around paying for the content that's being consumed. So what's 225 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:34,600 Speaker 1: the argument on the other side for why Netflix would 226 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:37,640 Speaker 1: want to reduce their numbers in the short term in 227 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:42,559 Speaker 1: order to do what get more advertising? When debate have that, Yeah, no, 228 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:46,679 Speaker 1: I mean the issue is if Netflix wishes to maintain 229 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:50,800 Speaker 1: a model that does not necessarily rely upon advertising, then 230 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 1: you need to have in place a far more stringent regime, 231 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:57,079 Speaker 1: if you will, from the standpoint of making sure that 232 00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 1: you know account information and is not being shared, and 233 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:03,880 Speaker 1: that you're actually being able to realize the revenue per 234 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:06,240 Speaker 1: user uh that you should be doing out of the 235 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:09,920 Speaker 1: subscription model. And that's where um and we have literally 236 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:12,040 Speaker 1: like twenty seconds left, but we were talking earlier about 237 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:14,760 Speaker 1: help blockchain is sort of going to play a role 238 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:16,800 Speaker 1: eventually in this if they can tract better. Yeah, but 239 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:19,960 Speaker 1: there will be an available use of apply private blockchains 240 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:23,320 Speaker 1: to do a better job in terms of tying consumers 241 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:27,440 Speaker 1: and content consumption. So from the standpoint of sharing, uh, 242 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:30,560 Speaker 1: look for decentralized technology to be used to try to 243 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:33,720 Speaker 1: address this problem. David Garrity always a pleasure. Thank you 244 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:36,040 Speaker 1: so much for coming in today. Thank you. David Garritty 245 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:38,720 Speaker 1: is a chief executive of g v A Research talking 246 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:55,120 Speaker 1: all things tech. Also, I'll be us move forward to 247 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:58,480 Speaker 1: Damien sass Our, fixed income strategist with Bloomberg Intelligence. He 248 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:02,640 Speaker 1: brings us intelligence as always on the developing world, with 249 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:07,000 Speaker 1: decades of experience in this area. Damien, it is all 250 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:11,920 Speaker 1: about Venezuela this morning. What are they doing to valuation 251 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:14,480 Speaker 1: in the Bolivar? What's the purpose? I mean, are they 252 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:18,400 Speaker 1: basically just trying to uh absolutely remove this instrument from 253 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:21,360 Speaker 1: being relevant any way, shape or form. Yes, they are. 254 00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:25,160 Speaker 1: I mean this conjures images of the Black Friday that 255 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:27,800 Speaker 1: kind of led to the rise of Hugo chabas Um. 256 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:30,720 Speaker 1: It's when Camping's the former president, value the boulevard by 257 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:33,720 Speaker 1: something on the order of and there was riding in 258 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:35,880 Speaker 1: the streets, and there was bloodshed and and here we are. 259 00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:38,240 Speaker 1: But look, I mean what's really interesting is over the 260 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:42,680 Speaker 1: weekend we saw MAURICEO McCree, the President of Argentina, together 261 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:45,520 Speaker 1: with Chili, Paraguay and Columbia come out and say that 262 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 1: they might actually be taking um Maduro to the I 263 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:51,640 Speaker 1: c C, to the Hague UM. And I think that's 264 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 1: kind of interesting because it's really the first evidence we're 265 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:58,320 Speaker 1: seeing that it's not a unilateral US you know, uh, 266 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:01,320 Speaker 1: focused measure to kind of get you know, Venezuela to 267 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:04,000 Speaker 1: buckle and the Madure regime to buckle. It's really now 268 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 1: brought extending beyond just the US into Latin America. And 269 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:09,680 Speaker 1: that's the first evidence of it. And just to be clear, 270 00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:13,560 Speaker 1: what they were saying is that the Madure administration has 271 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:17,080 Speaker 1: committed crimes against humanity and they're trying to get the 272 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:21,360 Speaker 1: Hague to come in and rule on that. What would 273 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:25,160 Speaker 1: that do to the Madure administration? Would that potentially cause 274 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 1: some sort of ignite, some sort of regime change or 275 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:29,640 Speaker 1: is it sort of a cosmetic you know, we all 276 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:32,400 Speaker 1: hate you now, right? So the whispers there that Maduro's 277 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:35,200 Speaker 1: in power because the military protects him and because the 278 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 1: generals and party. I mean, you know, part of his 279 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:40,440 Speaker 1: regime at the top lieutenants, top generals, they're all kind 280 00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:42,200 Speaker 1: of you know, they've got his back, so to speak. 281 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:44,560 Speaker 1: And you know, by you know, if you take in 282 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:48,480 Speaker 1: conjunction evaluation of the Bolivar last week, the removal of 283 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:50,240 Speaker 1: some of the fuel subsidies, and some of the other 284 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:53,400 Speaker 1: measures that they're taking. I linking their currency to the petro, 285 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:57,520 Speaker 1: which is a cryptocurrency that's linked to Venezuela crude oil 286 00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:02,640 Speaker 1: exports that has been entirely discredited. Yes, yes, absolutely absolutely, 287 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:04,040 Speaker 1: and the fact that it's now the link went on 288 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:07,639 Speaker 1: what six point one billion dollars of bonds with US 289 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:09,840 Speaker 1: dollar credits. I mean, it all kind of paints are 290 00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 1: really a really kind of unnerving picture, one that kind 291 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:15,119 Speaker 1: of you know, I think they're trying to get you know, 292 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 1: it shows that they're very vulnerable. Venezuela is very vulnerable 293 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:21,040 Speaker 1: and um and they've got some real issues ahead of them, 294 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:22,760 Speaker 1: and hopefully the i c C can iron this out 295 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 1: and sort of add some pressure and get and get 296 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:27,640 Speaker 1: a regime change. One thing that I find interesting both 297 00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 1: about what we're seeing in Venezuela as well as Turkey 298 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:33,840 Speaker 1: is where the international help is coming from. I mean, 299 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:38,400 Speaker 1: Turkey obviously has seen a dramatic devaluation of their currency 300 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:40,639 Speaker 1: of the lira, which is continuing today. It's losing value 301 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:44,760 Speaker 1: against the dollar. Um interesting that Russia and China have 302 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:47,840 Speaker 1: emerged as lenders to both of these nations at some 303 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:49,479 Speaker 1: point or other. And I'm wondering, I don't know if 304 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:51,720 Speaker 1: China has actually stepped at this point to Turkey, but 305 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:55,040 Speaker 1: certainly China's been a big lender to Venezuela. What is 306 00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:58,159 Speaker 1: this sort of I don't know, demonstrating as far as 307 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:01,520 Speaker 1: a sea change, a shift in China and Turkey and 308 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:04,320 Speaker 1: Russia lending to developing market. Yeah, you're going down a 309 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:06,359 Speaker 1: path that a lot of people are not whispering behind 310 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:10,240 Speaker 1: closed doors. The fact that, you know, the US dollar 311 00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:13,240 Speaker 1: strength has always been sort of the acts that kind 312 00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:15,159 Speaker 1: of you know, slits the throat, so to speak, of 313 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:18,800 Speaker 1: emerging market assets and so diversifying your currency exposure. You know, 314 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:21,840 Speaker 1: we all talk about the broad trade weighted real US dollar, 315 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:23,919 Speaker 1: which is basically a basket of currencies and how they 316 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:26,080 Speaker 1: perform a relative to the dollar, and how that's done. 317 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:28,520 Speaker 1: And I think what we're seeing here is you know, 318 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:30,760 Speaker 1: China and Russia trying to step in and be that 319 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:33,199 Speaker 1: lender of last resort to some of these, uh, some 320 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 1: of these economies that really need assistance, you know, and 321 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:37,639 Speaker 1: and that that whose currencies have really declined and the 322 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:41,000 Speaker 1: valued relative to the dollar. Whether or not um you know, 323 00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:44,240 Speaker 1: that's acceptable to the countries themselves and they're populous, whether 324 00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:47,720 Speaker 1: or not, you know, that doesn't force us to now 325 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:50,240 Speaker 1: put China and Russia in the same bucket as them, 326 00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:52,760 Speaker 1: which obviously we started to do. Right We have sanctions 327 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:56,000 Speaker 1: against Russia, we are putting tariffs against China, so maybe 328 00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:57,639 Speaker 1: they feel, you know, what, what more do we have 329 00:18:57,720 --> 00:18:59,320 Speaker 1: to lose? But I think in China's case, this is 330 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:01,480 Speaker 1: really quite interest thing because trying has been lending to 331 00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 1: you know, emerging economies for for some time now, and 332 00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:08,040 Speaker 1: you know, maybe they're kind of trying to get the 333 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:10,959 Speaker 1: you know, the renminbi out there and into the reserves 334 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:13,639 Speaker 1: of a lot of these countries and that might you know, 335 00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:15,760 Speaker 1: kind of save them in the long run and allowed 336 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:18,720 Speaker 1: them to issue more debt to reach their own GDP 337 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:21,760 Speaker 1: growth targets, which are being scaled back as we speak. 338 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:23,440 Speaker 1: So we'll see how it all kind of shakes loose. 339 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:25,320 Speaker 1: I think it's just you know, quite interesting. You know, 340 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 1: if you look at just what happened over the weekend, 341 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:29,880 Speaker 1: you look at Venezuela, you look at Turkey, I mean, um, 342 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 1: you know, and you look at the squeeze which is 343 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 1: now turned into a dollars shortage. It's just going to 344 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:36,679 Speaker 1: be really painful for a lot of creditors. Damian Sasa 345 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:39,320 Speaker 1: are always wonderful to hear from you. Damian Sasso is 346 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:43,600 Speaker 1: fixing up strategist focusing on developing markets for Bloomberg Intelligence. 347 00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:47,080 Speaker 1: Certainly an important thing to watch. Where are some of 348 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:50,280 Speaker 1: these developing markets that are certain they're currently in a 349 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:54,240 Speaker 1: crisis situation where they getting their money. This is something 350 00:19:54,280 --> 00:20:10,600 Speaker 1: we will continue to watch. The plunge in bitcoin this 351 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:13,720 Speaker 1: year has been precipitous. It's hard to overstate it. It's 352 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:17,240 Speaker 1: sort of the year at more than thirteen thousand dollars 353 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:21,439 Speaker 1: per bitcoin now trading six thousand, four hundred and forty 354 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:25,240 Speaker 1: six dollars. The question is what does this due to 355 00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:28,840 Speaker 1: investments in blockchain, which has been traditionally thought of as 356 00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:33,399 Speaker 1: the mainstay and sort of the value behind this asset. 357 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:35,720 Speaker 1: Joining us now are really happy to say, is Ron Quaranta, 358 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:39,080 Speaker 1: chairman of the Wall Street Blockchain Alliance, and Ron, I'm wondering, 359 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:41,960 Speaker 1: do you watch the price action in bitcoin and ether 360 00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:44,320 Speaker 1: which is actually plunged more we do, and thanks for 361 00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:46,119 Speaker 1: having me, Lisa, It's good to see you again. UM. 362 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:48,879 Speaker 1: Really focusing on the price action that we see. We 363 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:51,280 Speaker 1: have a Cryptoasset to working Group and we have this 364 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:54,479 Speaker 1: conversation fairly regularly within the wus B a UM. We 365 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:57,480 Speaker 1: try to separate what's the speculative fervor around some of 366 00:20:57,520 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 1: the price action that we're seeing. In any particular day, 367 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:03,679 Speaker 1: you see ten to price moves UM. Certainly from the 368 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:06,040 Speaker 1: peaks we're seeing, we've seen quite a bit of decline 369 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:08,639 Speaker 1: in prices. UM. We suspect that's a bit of froth 370 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:11,920 Speaker 1: coming out of the market. There are some fundamental technical 371 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:14,159 Speaker 1: things that we look at as well. So for example, 372 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:15,959 Speaker 1: some of those I c o s that were funded 373 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:18,359 Speaker 1: with ether, as they become more cash trapped and they 374 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:21,840 Speaker 1: unload that Ether, that clearly puts downward pressure on prices, 375 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:24,280 Speaker 1: but none of that changes the dynamic of what we're 376 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:28,560 Speaker 1: seeing at the evolution of leveraging blockchain technology across global 377 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 1: financial markets. UH and things like supply chain for example. Alright, 378 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:36,440 Speaker 1: so you're still seeing investments made by big Wall Street 379 00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:39,720 Speaker 1: firms and beyond in blockchain. There's no sort of knock 380 00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:42,520 Speaker 1: on effective from this, Yeah, I mean, I think the 381 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:45,840 Speaker 1: knock on effect really is indicative of the challenges that 382 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:49,480 Speaker 1: the industry is having involving evolving given institutional interests. So 383 00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:52,199 Speaker 1: for example, I think there's JP Morgan and Bank of 384 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:56,000 Speaker 1: America recently invested, sorry Goldman is actually invested in a 385 00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:58,119 Speaker 1: company called a sony Um. I think it was reported 386 00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:00,560 Speaker 1: by Bloombergner was really focusing on building the nancial markets, 387 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:06,440 Speaker 1: infrastructure and tools associated with engaging cryptocurrencies and crypto assets. Well, 388 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:09,280 Speaker 1: I guess that one. Uh right now, I'm looking at 389 00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:11,639 Speaker 1: in Videos shares there down one and a half percent, 390 00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:15,280 Speaker 1: down nearly five percent on Friday. Uh. And in Video 391 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:18,679 Speaker 1: reported earnings, the big question mark was that they said 392 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 1: that their sales were down when it came to people 393 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:26,239 Speaker 1: who are looking to mine cryptocurrencies, and that have been 394 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:29,440 Speaker 1: a big driver of certain sales in a small segment, 395 00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:32,400 Speaker 1: and that was weighed down. And I guess I'm trying 396 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:35,719 Speaker 1: to understand, especially at a time when blockchain investments haven't 397 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:37,960 Speaker 1: borne fruit for a lot of places the way they've 398 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:41,520 Speaker 1: been looking for. Um, do you view this as sort 399 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:44,159 Speaker 1: of the decline of of seeing blockchain is sort of 400 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:45,919 Speaker 1: the holy grail? Or do you think that this is 401 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:48,920 Speaker 1: just sort of a right sizing of expectations. I think 402 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:51,640 Speaker 1: it's more of the right sizing of expectations. I don't 403 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:55,120 Speaker 1: both from the blockchain as a technology solution perspective as 404 00:22:55,119 --> 00:23:00,159 Speaker 1: well as cryptocurrency hype overblown expectations by far. When you 405 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:03,280 Speaker 1: look at the innvideo example, the economics of mining don't 406 00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:05,480 Speaker 1: make sense below a certain price point, and when you 407 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 1: look at forty fifty sixty print drops in things like bitcoin, 408 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:12,760 Speaker 1: it becomes a challenge to sell those ships. When bitcoin 409 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:16,080 Speaker 1: was approaching twenty people couldn't get those ships fast enough. 410 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:18,360 Speaker 1: So again, in our mind, this is the right sizing 411 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:21,480 Speaker 1: of the expectations across the technology landscape. It's the right 412 00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:25,760 Speaker 1: sizing of the expectations from almost an investment landscape perspective 413 00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:28,520 Speaker 1: looking at cryptocurrencies, and that ultimately is good for the 414 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,760 Speaker 1: evolution of the space. What's the mood like among providers 415 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:35,119 Speaker 1: of blockchain technology right now? Yeah, it's a lot of 416 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:38,360 Speaker 1: the mood in the conversations that we have is biding 417 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:42,480 Speaker 1: time and patients to develop these ecosystems. There's a lot 418 00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:45,879 Speaker 1: of pressure around why is in blockchain delivering on some 419 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:50,200 Speaker 1: of these promised solutions? Why aren't cryptocurrencies achieving the price 420 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:53,080 Speaker 1: points that everyone thought they would and the providers who 421 00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:56,399 Speaker 1: are doing the day to day work really putting together solutions, 422 00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:59,520 Speaker 1: and it's big and small firms um really are working 423 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:02,000 Speaker 1: to ex san that ecosystem and make it makes sense 424 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:05,560 Speaker 1: over time, and so they're fighting the idea of how 425 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:09,840 Speaker 1: do we challenge these expectations of blockchainsers of all problems 426 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:13,359 Speaker 1: immediately versus it's going to take time to evolve the space. 427 00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:17,760 Speaker 1: What is the ecosystem that's necessary for blockchain? Yeah, there 428 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:19,240 Speaker 1: are a couple of things that are really important, and 429 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 1: I'll use something like supply chain as an example, and 430 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:24,640 Speaker 1: recently um IBM, I think they have now something over 431 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:29,280 Speaker 1: ninety firms involved in their supply chain blockchain solution. It's 432 00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:32,359 Speaker 1: acceptance in education. We always go back to the education comment, 433 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:35,040 Speaker 1: which is, how do you get firms that would participate 434 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:39,280 Speaker 1: to understand the dynamics of what blockchain accomplishes for them? Wow, 435 00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:41,840 Speaker 1: what the efficiencies are associated with it, and then it's 436 00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:45,280 Speaker 1: the challenge of interoperability and integration. How do you take 437 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:49,440 Speaker 1: a blockchain solution and integrated into how they do what 438 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:51,720 Speaker 1: they do currently, And that's a lot of work. That's 439 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 1: a lot of work from the provider perspective. Look at 440 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:56,080 Speaker 1: an IBM for example, it's a lot of work for 441 00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:59,280 Speaker 1: those new firms that would want to leverage blockchain technology, 442 00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:02,280 Speaker 1: and the idea or just to to move beyond using 443 00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:05,040 Speaker 1: blockchain is sort of like a word of jargon where 444 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:06,520 Speaker 1: people like, you know, if you've got a problem, you've 445 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:08,960 Speaker 1: got a problem with your son blockchain UM. But that 446 00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:13,000 Speaker 1: basically the idea is being able to track either products, payments, 447 00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:15,600 Speaker 1: whatever else in real time and it is sort of 448 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:20,360 Speaker 1: an unalterable format from place to place. Is that am 449 00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:22,720 Speaker 1: I characterizing this correct? Yeah? Absolutely so. It's really the 450 00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:26,680 Speaker 1: ability to have that immutable audit trail of data that 451 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:31,320 Speaker 1: is perpetually tied to specific solutions again like supply chain 452 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:35,600 Speaker 1: UM they're doing likewise in food, they're certainly looking at 453 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:38,760 Speaker 1: things in financial markets to track things again like syndicated 454 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:42,360 Speaker 1: loans and other instruments UM. And also the security associated 455 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:46,439 Speaker 1: with that data and the ability to disintermediate the costs 456 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:49,480 Speaker 1: associated with trusts between parties. There's a lot of cost 457 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:52,120 Speaker 1: savings that happens there. Run Quaranta. Thank you so much 458 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:55,479 Speaker 1: for being here. A really pertinent topic right now round Coronta, 459 00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:59,960 Speaker 1: chairman of the Wall Street Blockchain Alliance. Bitcoin is certainly 460 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:03,640 Speaker 1: having quite a swoon, more than half its value being 461 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:07,400 Speaker 1: raised so far this year, and in video is set 462 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:14,359 Speaker 1: to unroll some products in the near future. Thanks for 463 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:17,080 Speaker 1: listening to the Bloomberg P and L podcast. You can 464 00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:20,919 Speaker 1: subscribe and listen to interviews at Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, or 465 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:24,439 Speaker 1: whatever podcast platform you prefer. I'm pim Fox. I'm on 466 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:28,360 Speaker 1: Twitter at pim Fox. I'm on Twitter at Lisa Abramo. 467 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:31,080 Speaker 1: It's one before the podcast. You can always catch us 468 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:32,680 Speaker 1: worldwide on Bloomberg Radio.