1 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:06,480 Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff Mom Never told you. From how Supports 2 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:14,920 Speaker 1: dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Caroline 3 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:17,720 Speaker 1: and I'm Kristen, and today we're taking a look at 4 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:20,440 Speaker 1: women in hip hop. We're gonna we're gonna take you 5 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:24,560 Speaker 1: back and show you some of the pioneers in the 6 00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:27,720 Speaker 1: field of hip hop, and we're going to talk to 7 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:31,080 Speaker 1: a very special guest about the state of women in 8 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:34,360 Speaker 1: hip hop today. That's right. Since Caroline and I are 9 00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:39,400 Speaker 1: admittedly not hip hop aficionados, we have with us today 10 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 1: in the studio Christina Lee, who is a music journalist 11 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:47,760 Speaker 1: who has been featured in Rolling Stone, dot com, MTV, BBC, 12 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:53,080 Speaker 1: all sorts of really cool places. So, first of all, Christina, 13 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 1: thanks so much for coming on the show. Thanks for 14 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:58,440 Speaker 1: having me. Um. So, first off, let's just give a 15 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 1: really brief synopsis of when hip hop started and just 16 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:08,120 Speaker 1: named check a few of the pioneers. Yeah, so hip 17 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 1: hop culture was born in the nineteen seventies, and I 18 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:14,880 Speaker 1: think it goes without saying that it's pretty much taken 19 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 1: over the globe since then. And actually we should point 20 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:20,560 Speaker 1: out that November was hip Hop History Month, something that 21 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:23,680 Speaker 1: I did not realize. Yeah, I didn't realize that either. Um. 22 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:28,880 Speaker 1: And it was born supposedly on August eleven, ninety three, 23 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:33,000 Speaker 1: and essentially a party that was happening. Um, Christina, do 24 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:35,679 Speaker 1: you know anything about this? First, not to put you 25 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 1: on the spot, but do you know anything about this 26 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:40,720 Speaker 1: birth of hip hop in nineteen seventy three? Well, basically 27 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 1: it was at a rec center party. It was just 28 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:46,480 Speaker 1: a DJ, like you know, hovering over the turntables and 29 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 1: like scratching the record and that, like you know, that's 30 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:51,559 Speaker 1: pretty much how it began. Um. And then from there 31 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 1: it's kind of morphed and reshaped and all sorts of things. 32 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:57,560 Speaker 1: But yeah, it started out a party. Well in hip 33 00:01:57,600 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 1: hop culture, it should be noted also doesn't just in 34 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 1: fluid the music and what was going on at that party. 35 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 1: It also ranges from deejaying to break dancing, graffiti, spoken word, 36 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:11,359 Speaker 1: urban fiction, and let's not forget street fashion too. Yeah, 37 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 1: And in this podcast, we're gonna focus more just on 38 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:19,000 Speaker 1: that music, but it is yeah, worth remembering that this 39 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:21,800 Speaker 1: is an entire culture that we're talking about. It's an 40 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 1: art form that goes beyond just scratching records. And from 41 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:29,640 Speaker 1: the get go, there were women involved. Even though a 42 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:32,040 Speaker 1: lot of times when you read about hip hop today, 43 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 1: I feel like if I had a dollar for every 44 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:37,680 Speaker 1: time I saw the phrase a boy's club to describe it, 45 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:40,840 Speaker 1: I would, Uh, well, I could you have several dollars? 46 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:42,960 Speaker 1: I haven't. I have a number of dollars that I 47 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:46,000 Speaker 1: could use to buy a hip hop record. Um. But 48 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:49,880 Speaker 1: let's go back though, and just mentioned m c shah Rock, 49 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 1: who was the first woman to join an established all 50 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 1: male hip hop group called the Funky Four plus one More, 51 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 1: And yes she was the plus one more. Yeah, I 52 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:03,720 Speaker 1: saw an interview or not saw an interview, read an 53 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 1: interview with mc shaw Rock, and she's very clear. She's 54 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:10,800 Speaker 1: very clear about the fact that yes she was technically 55 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:13,920 Speaker 1: the plus one more, but she is very aware of 56 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 1: her contribution to hip hop the not the whole landscape, 57 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 1: but also kind of ushering in more women in hip hop. 58 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:25,400 Speaker 1: But then let's jump forward, okay, because that is when 59 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:27,680 Speaker 1: a woman named rock Sanne Schante shows up on the 60 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 1: scene with something called a diss track. Uh. And it 61 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:34,200 Speaker 1: was called rock Sand's Revenge and it was a response 62 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 1: to this group of U t fos song rock Sande, 63 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:43,440 Speaker 1: Rock Sand And it not only put Roxanne Shante obviously 64 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:45,640 Speaker 1: on the map in the hip hop world, but it 65 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 1: seems like it really put women in general on the 66 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 1: hip hop map for the first time because it was like, whoa, Okay, 67 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:55,960 Speaker 1: she's not only coming out, she's coming out with a 68 00:03:56,120 --> 00:04:02,480 Speaker 1: diss and it's really good. She basically used her song 69 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 1: as a way to let these guys know that they 70 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:10,120 Speaker 1: didn't deserve her. She was way better than them. And so, 71 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 1: as feminist to Jones over at Salon Rights, it's this 72 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 1: historic rap battle that's set the tone for women who 73 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:19,599 Speaker 1: sought to enter the rap arena and compete with men. 74 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:22,520 Speaker 1: So not just getting into the game, but also kind 75 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 1: of going head to head for attention, for for cred 76 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:31,040 Speaker 1: basically yeah, and and just to do a quick hops 77 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 1: given a jump because Christina, we really want to talk 78 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 1: to you about the state of women in hip hop today. Um. 79 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 1: But from there we have, for instance, in nine six, 80 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:44,320 Speaker 1: Salton Pepper come out with Hot, Cool and Vicious, which 81 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:46,479 Speaker 1: is I mean, they they're really the first like all 82 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 1: female hip hop group to make it huge. And then 83 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 1: you have in the nineties names emerged like Little Kim 84 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:56,360 Speaker 1: and Foxy Brown, and this is when you have that 85 00:04:56,440 --> 00:05:01,240 Speaker 1: shift happening to UM these female m c's and rappers 86 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 1: being really overt with their sexuality and this image or 87 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:09,120 Speaker 1: the and this issue I should say, of the representations 88 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:13,200 Speaker 1: not only of women in rap, but also of how 89 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:18,280 Speaker 1: female mcs and female rappers represent themselves and their sexuality 90 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:22,000 Speaker 1: is an issue that's often talked about. UM. But you 91 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 1: have all these names, especially I mean, like I said, 92 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 1: Little Kim, Foxy Brown, but you also have the Brat, 93 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 1: Missy Elliott Eve, all of these people, Lauren Hill. I 94 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 1: remember listening to the Education of Lauren Hill. Now I 95 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:37,360 Speaker 1: listened to that. I think I wore holes in my 96 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:39,839 Speaker 1: CD basically because I listened to it from the time 97 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:42,920 Speaker 1: it came out to UM still now on my iPod. Yeah. 98 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 1: It was the first rap CD I owned, actually, yeah, 99 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:47,880 Speaker 1: and it was and it was amazing, And thinking back 100 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:50,160 Speaker 1: to when I was listening to it, I wish I 101 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 1: had known what I was listening to, you know what 102 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:55,480 Speaker 1: I mean of, like how good and how significant it was. 103 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:57,920 Speaker 1: And so we have all of these and I haven't 104 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 1: even mentioned all of them, but we have this legacy 105 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 1: of these really powerful and successful women in hip hop 106 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:09,360 Speaker 1: who are doing new things and establishing this like new 107 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 1: image of this particular kind of like hip hop womanhood 108 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:16,360 Speaker 1: in a way, and now I feel like in two 109 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 1: thousand and thirteen it's not so celebratory for women. I 110 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:24,600 Speaker 1: don't know, So, Christina, could you just talk to us 111 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:29,480 Speaker 1: first about sort of how you see the representation of 112 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:34,320 Speaker 1: women in hip hop today? I realized that's a broad question. Sure, 113 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:39,160 Speaker 1: I mean, um, Actually, when I thought about the representation, 114 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:41,840 Speaker 1: I actually thought to a recent interview that Spike Lee 115 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 1: Different Entertainment Weekly about his old Boy reommake. Um. The 116 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:48,760 Speaker 1: journalists have asked whether he was really excited about, you know, 117 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:53,479 Speaker 1: films like Twelve Years of Slave and The Butler what 118 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 1: seemed like a renaissance of Black cinema, and Spike Lee 119 00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:58,800 Speaker 1: just kind of laughed him off and was like, this 120 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:02,640 Speaker 1: happens once every decade. Once every ten years, somebody says 121 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:04,479 Speaker 1: there's a renaissance in black cinema, and then for the 122 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 1: other nine years that gets completely ignored. And um, while 123 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:10,920 Speaker 1: hip hop isn't nearly you know, obviously as old. I 124 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 1: feel like right now, particularly with last year, in the 125 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:16,760 Speaker 1: year before, there's been that same sort of coverage where 126 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 1: it was just like like, for example, like the Atlantic 127 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 1: had to put out a piece that was like, no, 128 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:24,120 Speaker 1: female rappers are not a novelty just because there are 129 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:26,400 Speaker 1: a bunch of them around. Like the fact that that 130 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 1: argument had to be made was really sad. And then 131 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:33,240 Speaker 1: um Terrey, who's the MSNBC correspondent but also has a 132 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 1: history of writing for Rolling Stone, had like this New 133 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:37,960 Speaker 1: York Times piece about you know, the rise of the 134 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 1: white woman American rapper and was just like, well, they're 135 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 1: not going to completely rewrite the history that hip hop 136 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:48,360 Speaker 1: has with black masculinity, but you know, they're they're there 137 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 1: and they're hanging out. Um, So I think that sort 138 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 1: of cover it says a lot about the representation and 139 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 1: that there's very little of it. Um, it's not really 140 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:01,840 Speaker 1: being covered. And a lot the rappers who were being 141 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 1: celebrated last year, a lot of newcomers, um, they just 142 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 1: hadn't really put out music like Azalea Banks's album got 143 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 1: you know, delayed and delayed and delayed, and then in 144 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 1: the meantime, it just seems like we've I don't know, 145 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 1: lost track of everyone else that was sort of heralded 146 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 1: as the next best thing last year. So well, I 147 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 1: wonder too, like we can't hear enough, it seems about 148 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 1: white female pop stars. I mean, all the stories about 149 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 1: even still hearing about Britney Spears, Lady Gaga, Katie Perry, 150 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:36,960 Speaker 1: Taylor Swift, Miley Cyrus, and on and on and on, 151 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:39,920 Speaker 1: and there's so much conversation around them. And I wonder 152 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:44,520 Speaker 1: if the portrayal and roll of of like white women 153 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:49,200 Speaker 1: and pop, how that's seen differently and covered differently than 154 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:53,439 Speaker 1: women in hip hop. You know. Yeah, I think that 155 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 1: pop's relationship with hip hop has become really interesting and 156 00:08:57,040 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 1: that um, a lot of the pop stars that you've 157 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:02,839 Speaker 1: mentioned had sort of taken to like having a pop 158 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 1: song on their album, like Lady Gaga had t I 159 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:09,520 Speaker 1: Twisted and Too Short on her album. Katy Perry's only 160 00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:12,640 Speaker 1: guest was like Juicy J. Miley Cyrus obviously worked with 161 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 1: Mike Will, made it the Producer out of Here in 162 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:17,960 Speaker 1: Atlanta and had him executive produce her album, not to 163 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:22,680 Speaker 1: mention that she titled it Bangers. UM. So I do 164 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:27,680 Speaker 1: sometimes wonder whether they're sort of taking towards hip hop 165 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:32,320 Speaker 1: has created this new sort of standard for a female rapper, 166 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:36,080 Speaker 1: and that honestly, it sort of seems like Nicki Minaj 167 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:38,240 Speaker 1: and Katy Perry could have shared a wardrobe like a 168 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:41,600 Speaker 1: couple of years ago. And um, and I wonder also 169 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 1: like whether the Brat or Missy Elliott for as much 170 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 1: of a hard time as they had coming out when 171 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:52,360 Speaker 1: they did for not looking like little Kim, Um, how 172 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:55,920 Speaker 1: much harder of a time they would have had now? Yeah, Well, 173 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:58,840 Speaker 1: so speaking of artists like Missy Elliott, who you know, 174 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 1: maybe as you said, wouldn't be as successful if they 175 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:03,960 Speaker 1: were trying to come out today. I mean, there is 176 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:06,960 Speaker 1: the issue of falling record sales, people not going out 177 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:09,839 Speaker 1: and buying as many records, and so the industry is 178 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:14,080 Speaker 1: trying to push to the front these artists male or female, 179 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:17,480 Speaker 1: who they know will make money. And so I'm wondering, 180 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:20,680 Speaker 1: you know, artists like Nicki Minaj. It seems like she's 181 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 1: the only person that the mainstream media even talks about 182 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:27,720 Speaker 1: when it comes to women in hip hop and black 183 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:30,480 Speaker 1: female artists today. And so how do you think that 184 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 1: financial music industry element plays into it? Um? I think 185 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:37,960 Speaker 1: with the music industry and having to to deal with 186 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:40,240 Speaker 1: the climbing sales, um kind of, like you said, wants 187 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 1: to bet on the safest that's possible, and a lot 188 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:46,480 Speaker 1: of times in hip hop that reduces down to um 189 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:48,880 Speaker 1: dudes who want to go out in the club, and 190 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:51,800 Speaker 1: then like females were willing to you know, play along 191 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:54,640 Speaker 1: with all that. So I guess like, especially as of 192 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:57,840 Speaker 1: right now, Nicki Minaj is kind of proven herself, especially 193 00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:00,160 Speaker 1: like with the releases of her albums, proven that she 194 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 1: has that crossover appeal, which is really crucial um to 195 00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:07,240 Speaker 1: hip hop in particular. I mean basically, like, I don't know, 196 00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:09,760 Speaker 1: this hypothetical question just runs through my mind over and 197 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:13,679 Speaker 1: over again. It's like, in particular, seen a lot of 198 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 1: huge releases from these big names like Jay z on a, 199 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:23,320 Speaker 1: Eminem Drake, all them being male or whatever, and especially now, 200 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:26,360 Speaker 1: and especially since hip hop technically covers such a small 201 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:28,520 Speaker 1: niche in terms of radio airplay. I don't know if 202 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 1: people realize that, but like when it's pitted against country 203 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:33,880 Speaker 1: and it's pitted against pop, it's really is a much 204 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:37,360 Speaker 1: smaller audience. Yeah, I wonder sometimes if hip hop just 205 00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:40,840 Speaker 1: kind of defaults to who they know and for whatever reason, 206 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:44,320 Speaker 1: that tends to be male, because people associate, you know, 207 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 1: hip hop with male and hypermasculinity and so forth. Well, 208 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:50,640 Speaker 1: I think it's interesting that um that you save that 209 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:54,320 Speaker 1: hip hop, especially with radio play, is still so niche, 210 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 1: and that we are still seeing such a homogeneous presentation 211 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:03,720 Speaker 1: label wise of having like those same names like I mean, Eminem, Drake, 212 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:09,160 Speaker 1: j Z, etcetera. While it seems like hip hop is 213 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 1: what everybody now is listening to, like that's what the 214 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:17,600 Speaker 1: kids kids with a Z, That's what kids are listening to, 215 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:19,880 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, It's not so much we 216 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:22,520 Speaker 1: were not getting so excited about like new country music 217 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:24,559 Speaker 1: or pop, even though we hear about it all the time. 218 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:28,560 Speaker 1: So I wonder why that would be where it's like 219 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:32,120 Speaker 1: hip hop is reaching this like pinnacle point, being like 220 00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:35,800 Speaker 1: almost saturating not just the United States but also these 221 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:39,680 Speaker 1: global markets, and yet we're still just being served the 222 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:41,760 Speaker 1: same thing. I guess it's a reflection though too, of 223 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:46,200 Speaker 1: just maybe entertainment more broadly. Yeah, I think, I think definitely. 224 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:47,959 Speaker 1: I think when you have to talk about women and 225 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:50,600 Speaker 1: hip hop, you do really have to pose those asto 226 00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:54,560 Speaker 1: questions about the industry and in mind because um, a 227 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 1: lot of country listeners still purchase the music and that's 228 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:01,679 Speaker 1: really really crucial, whereas with hip pop, you it's it's 229 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:04,439 Speaker 1: a mixtape you know, environment, and you get a lot 230 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:06,320 Speaker 1: of the music for free and a lot of and 231 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:09,040 Speaker 1: a lot of times it's like either tour or you 232 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:12,839 Speaker 1: get that pop crossover record in order to really get 233 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:15,959 Speaker 1: that substantial sort of income. Not all the time. There 234 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:19,960 Speaker 1: are plenty of independent run labels, but that's like a 235 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 1: decade long investment as opposed to this sort of instant 236 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 1: success that a lot of pop stars received. So I 237 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 1: think that's a major reason why. I mean, I agree 238 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:30,760 Speaker 1: with Kanye West as far as him saying that rap 239 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:32,400 Speaker 1: is the new rock and roll. And every time I 240 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 1: go to shows like, I see audiences that are young, 241 00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:37,080 Speaker 1: and I believe that, you know, hip hop is that 242 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 1: youth culture that it is right now. It's just that 243 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 1: um people are taking in music a lot more differently 244 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 1: than they once did, and so UM like country like, 245 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:49,120 Speaker 1: they're still getting in the dollars because people are still 246 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:51,000 Speaker 1: willing to pay for it, whereas with hip hop it's 247 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 1: been free for quite a while that you sort of 248 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:55,439 Speaker 1: have to work on top of that, and that becomes 249 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:57,280 Speaker 1: really difficult to deal with for a lot of artists. 250 00:13:57,520 --> 00:14:00,880 Speaker 1: We mentioned touring, I mean, are there what are what 251 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 1: are the tour opportunities even like for female hip hop 252 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 1: artists as opposed to because I feel like so many 253 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:09,120 Speaker 1: of the hip hop tours you hear about are those 254 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:11,679 Speaker 1: really big names? I mean, are there who are some 255 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:14,680 Speaker 1: of the female artists out there touring? I mean besides 256 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:18,360 Speaker 1: from besides from Nicki Minaj. Honestly, and it's really sad 257 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 1: to say this, but I just haven't heard a lot 258 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:23,520 Speaker 1: about them. The one experience that I've had maybe was 259 00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:25,640 Speaker 1: at a three C which is a hip hop fasketball 260 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 1: based here in Atlanta. UM, they had regional showcases and 261 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:33,440 Speaker 1: the Chicago showcase actually was like a good portion of 262 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:36,120 Speaker 1: female acts. Not only that, but I was like showing 263 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:38,920 Speaker 1: up in line and there were dudes like running up 264 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:41,480 Speaker 1: past me being like has this girl gone on yet 265 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 1: or whatever? So that was, UM, that's very unusual. That's 266 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:50,359 Speaker 1: very unusual. Well, when it comes to criticism music criticism 267 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:53,920 Speaker 1: of female rappers, have you noticed a different way that 268 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:57,040 Speaker 1: they are maybe listen to or critique or they held 269 00:14:57,080 --> 00:15:02,760 Speaker 1: to a different standard than male rapper. Um, I think 270 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:08,680 Speaker 1: that as far as being critiqued, it it becomes it 271 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:11,880 Speaker 1: becomes very tricky, and it's um, it's kind of again, 272 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:13,880 Speaker 1: it's kind of sad. That I keep having to default 273 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:16,400 Speaker 1: to making manage. But honestly, she is like the biggest 274 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:18,120 Speaker 1: example of what it's like to be a female in 275 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:20,960 Speaker 1: hip hop right now. But it's like, when she released 276 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 1: her albums and she made this very deliberate step towards pop, 277 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:31,200 Speaker 1: she was she received a critical backlash. She was like, well, 278 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:33,720 Speaker 1: people were like, what are you doing? You're selling out. 279 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 1: You know that you can um do so much more. 280 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:39,120 Speaker 1: You know that you can wrap the best out of 281 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:41,560 Speaker 1: anybody here. Why are you going to sell out like that? 282 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:44,760 Speaker 1: And the funny part of that is is that she's 283 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:48,320 Speaker 1: basically sort of doing the same thing that a lot 284 00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:50,960 Speaker 1: of the most successful rappers are doing right now. I 285 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:53,560 Speaker 1: think people tend to forget that. You know, jay Z 286 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:55,960 Speaker 1: does a track with Maria Carey and like the o 287 00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:58,680 Speaker 1: B breaks out of the Atlanta rap scene by doing 288 00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:01,640 Speaker 1: a song with Bruno, mars My Well made a Collabrariores 289 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:04,440 Speaker 1: with Miley Cyrus. It's just that, for the most part, 290 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:07,320 Speaker 1: in hip hop, it seems as if the industry is 291 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 1: accepted that in order to make it, you have to 292 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:13,120 Speaker 1: be a crossover star. That is just what you have 293 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:15,360 Speaker 1: to do. But when it came to Nicki Minah. Suddenly 294 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 1: it became a gendered issue. Suddenly it became like, oh, well, 295 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:21,880 Speaker 1: you just want to be one of them as opposed 296 00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:25,920 Speaker 1: to whole you're reaching your commercial potential. So that's the 297 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 1: biggest difference that I've seen. Um, maybe some smaller differences 298 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 1: include like Gazalea having to go to Hot Ninny seven 299 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:38,080 Speaker 1: like with her label Boss t I, which like you know, 300 00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:40,320 Speaker 1: is a great idea, and I understand that he has 301 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 1: to be there, but I have also never seen that 302 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:45,880 Speaker 1: sort of supervision with male rappers before. Well, and I 303 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:50,600 Speaker 1: wonder too if there's so much scrutiny on Nicki Minaj 304 00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 1: and so much criticism just directed at her because like 305 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:57,560 Speaker 1: you say, she's it, so who else are they going to? 306 00:16:57,880 --> 00:17:00,440 Speaker 1: It's like she can't deflect onto any other or like 307 00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:02,360 Speaker 1: female artists and say, well look at what they're doing, 308 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:06,720 Speaker 1: because she's really it seems like setting the standard right now. Yeah, yeah, exactly. 309 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:08,719 Speaker 1: I mean it goes back to um, you know had 310 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 1: ninety seven Summer Jam from like last year where she 311 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:15,840 Speaker 1: is the headliner, you know, and but at the same time, 312 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:18,560 Speaker 1: you know, you had DJ Peter Rosenberg being like, I know, 313 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:21,280 Speaker 1: you chicks are out there waiting to hear what starships 314 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:23,439 Speaker 1: this sound like the yeah, there's nobody else who was 315 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 1: dealing with that right now, not that sort of critique. 316 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:28,119 Speaker 1: Didn't she end up this might be a side note 317 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 1: and if I'm wrong, but didn't she end up just 318 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:34,280 Speaker 1: canceling that and not showing Yeah, little little Wayne, Um, 319 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:37,879 Speaker 1: she conferred with Little Wayne, and Little Wayne told her 320 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:40,399 Speaker 1: don't do it because she had overheard exactly what happened. 321 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 1: And it led to this whole big feud where it's 322 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,080 Speaker 1: like the DJs were saying, like, NICKI was wrong to 323 00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:50,159 Speaker 1: do that, And then finally it was like Nikki and 324 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:53,560 Speaker 1: funk Master Reflex had to have like this lengthy length 325 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:57,800 Speaker 1: they talk about what the motivations were behind the whole thing, 326 00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:00,560 Speaker 1: where Nikki is like, you can't critique me like that, 327 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:03,400 Speaker 1: and then funk Masterflex is like, it's not because you're 328 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:06,120 Speaker 1: a woman, Nikki, it's not because you're a woman. Well, 329 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:08,920 Speaker 1: exactly the story that I was reading about that was like, yeah, that, well, 330 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:12,000 Speaker 1: that's how the conversation was going. But if she were 331 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:14,960 Speaker 1: not a woman, would he have been speaking to her 332 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:17,400 Speaker 1: that way? Like because they were? The story I read 333 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:18,879 Speaker 1: was basically saying if it were a little Wayne on 334 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:23,320 Speaker 1: the phone, would the DJ have kept interrupting him, kept assisting, 335 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:26,679 Speaker 1: kept yelling, you know, whereas he has this this female 336 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:29,760 Speaker 1: artist on the phone and he's basically giving her the 337 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:32,960 Speaker 1: what four Yeah, And she was even saying like throughout, like, 338 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:34,879 Speaker 1: you know, you could have gotten little Wayne on the 339 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:36,920 Speaker 1: phone to talk about this because it was his decision. 340 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:39,840 Speaker 1: It wasn't like I went along with it because you know, 341 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:43,119 Speaker 1: he's my boss, um. But and he and you know, 342 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:45,560 Speaker 1: she was just repeating what she's kind of said in 343 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:50,479 Speaker 1: like documentaries before, Whereas if you're a woman and you 344 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:53,640 Speaker 1: speak up for yourself, you're automatically a bit. But if 345 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:56,440 Speaker 1: you are a male and you're being assertive and you're 346 00:18:56,480 --> 00:19:01,000 Speaker 1: being a boss, and nobody like, you know, faults Donald 347 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:03,240 Speaker 1: Trump for acting the same way that Martha Steward does, 348 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:07,440 Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, And that, like Nicki minaj ism applies 349 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:12,560 Speaker 1: to so many podcasts topics. Yeah, that we talked about, um, 350 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 1: But what about though in terms of we've talked about 351 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 1: the legitimacy of female rappers and legitimacy in quotes in 352 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:23,240 Speaker 1: terms of how it's perceived by the industry, But what 353 00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:27,639 Speaker 1: about with female rap fans, because this is something that 354 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 1: I've noticed anecdotally among just with within music in general. Oftentimes, 355 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:37,960 Speaker 1: if you are a female who likes a certain genre 356 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:40,159 Speaker 1: of music, you're just called kind of written off as 357 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:43,359 Speaker 1: a fangirl. Um. And there was recently though, when it 358 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:48,440 Speaker 1: comes to rap, there was a complex magazine listical about 359 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:51,119 Speaker 1: like ten signs that your girlfriend is listening to too 360 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:57,200 Speaker 1: much rap basically just yeah, yeah, basically just taking down 361 00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:01,359 Speaker 1: all of like saying like, she likes Little Wayne, but 362 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:06,199 Speaker 1: does she like it too much? And yeah, essentially just 363 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:10,680 Speaker 1: criticizing women for for liking a liking wrap and saying 364 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:12,680 Speaker 1: that they can't be legitimate fans and then if they 365 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:15,960 Speaker 1: like it too much, then they're sort of violating their 366 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:19,760 Speaker 1: their role. And especially from your perspective as someone who 367 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:24,640 Speaker 1: has been in studios, you've been at shows, you've been 368 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:29,160 Speaker 1: in this environment, have you noticed female fans just being 369 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 1: written off as just being groupies, girlfriends, not legit rap enthusiasts. Um. 370 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:42,480 Speaker 1: I can't say that I've encountered that personally, because fortunately 371 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:45,320 Speaker 1: a lot of the people in the industry, at least 372 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:48,880 Speaker 1: in Atlanta, from what I've seen, are very respectable, very kind. 373 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:50,640 Speaker 1: As soon as they say I'm a writer. I say 374 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:53,320 Speaker 1: that I'm a writer, Like they're totally open to hearing 375 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:55,719 Speaker 1: about things that I've done and what my perspectives are 376 00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:57,640 Speaker 1: on hip hop. I've had a lot of debates in studios, 377 00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:03,600 Speaker 1: which is amazing and wonderful. Um. I mean that being said, UM, 378 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:06,960 Speaker 1: I do just see that sort of treatment more often 379 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:09,919 Speaker 1: and shows than in anything else that hasn't really um 380 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:13,479 Speaker 1: come from artists per se. But like, for example, I 381 00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:16,760 Speaker 1: went to UM a show a couple of days ago, 382 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 1: and uh, producer Michael made it. He's inviting like these 383 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:24,200 Speaker 1: huge names to come and join him from like Project 384 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 1: pat to to Chains to t I two Jeezy. They're 385 00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:30,159 Speaker 1: all here to celebrate like this release that he is 386 00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:34,280 Speaker 1: coming out. And UM, for a second, it looked like 387 00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:36,919 Speaker 1: a post like the closest thing I've seen to this 388 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:39,280 Speaker 1: post racial society that everyone keeps writing about. Like, I 389 00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:41,639 Speaker 1: look out on the crowd and there's black, there's whites, 390 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:44,520 Speaker 1: there's more Asians at a show that I've seen in 391 00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:46,880 Speaker 1: a really long time. Um, there's a black and white 392 00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:48,879 Speaker 1: gay couple like right beside me, And I was like, 393 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:51,399 Speaker 1: oh my god, this is so wonderful. The future is 394 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:55,080 Speaker 1: going to be really terrific, and then they start pulling 395 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:59,240 Speaker 1: female fans up into the crowd away from their boyfriends, 396 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:01,840 Speaker 1: and immediately it's just like Miley Sayre said that ju 397 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:03,800 Speaker 1: c j s where they just kind of turn around 398 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:05,840 Speaker 1: and bend over and do their thing, and I'm like, 399 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:11,080 Speaker 1: oh my god, this is never gonna go away. UM. 400 00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:13,560 Speaker 1: I mean that being said, I often find that just 401 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:17,560 Speaker 1: in my personal experience, that like I have to air 402 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:20,040 Speaker 1: towards the same towards the safe side, and that like 403 00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:24,040 Speaker 1: I have to talk about more extensively about you know, beats, 404 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:26,440 Speaker 1: friends and lyrics and like, um and some of the 405 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:29,359 Speaker 1: reasons why I may even be drawn to like surf 406 00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:33,359 Speaker 1: club songs, and like why songs for the ladies like 407 00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:36,280 Speaker 1: just aren't enough to like you know, get a woman 408 00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:39,720 Speaker 1: to feel like they're included and things like that. UM, 409 00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:43,040 Speaker 1: I do feel like I just have to, um explain 410 00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:46,440 Speaker 1: myself a lot more as far as like why I 411 00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:48,600 Speaker 1: why are like hip hop when it does seem like 412 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:51,360 Speaker 1: a does seem like a boys club. I've even had 413 00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:54,560 Speaker 1: like a debate with um a fellow hip hop journalist 414 00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:58,160 Speaker 1: who was like talking about an X who was really 415 00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:01,000 Speaker 1: drawn to those same strip club songs and was like, 416 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:03,119 Speaker 1: are you sure you really want to hear this or whatever? 417 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 1: And I'm just like, I guess what you have to 418 00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:08,760 Speaker 1: understand is that people like songs for the ladies. Like 419 00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:12,359 Speaker 1: we can't be summed up in one song. We're not 420 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:15,240 Speaker 1: all like, we don't all like that same like slow 421 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:18,000 Speaker 1: R and B breakdown or whatever, Like it's as cliche 422 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:22,159 Speaker 1: as bringing like chocolates and flowers on Valentine's Day or whatever. 423 00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:24,720 Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, I just think that there's a lot 424 00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:27,560 Speaker 1: more um explaining and rationale, and like I think like 425 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:29,399 Speaker 1: a lot of male fans just have to understand that, 426 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:32,960 Speaker 1: like you know, just like everybody else, y'all like music 427 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:36,240 Speaker 1: for many different reasons, Like I like hip hop because 428 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:40,240 Speaker 1: I like, um, I like all of its talk about money, 429 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:42,280 Speaker 1: and I like how it makes me feel, and I like, 430 00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:45,200 Speaker 1: you know, just the beasts that runs the wordplay. Any 431 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:47,920 Speaker 1: number of reasons, any number of factors. Do you have 432 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:52,080 Speaker 1: to though every now and then sort of put blinders 433 00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:57,280 Speaker 1: on in a way, willfully ignore the naked women, have 434 00:23:57,440 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 1: naked women on stage and how they're talking not just 435 00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:02,800 Speaker 1: about their money, but also how women want them for 436 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:04,679 Speaker 1: their money and like the money, like how do you 437 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:11,000 Speaker 1: reconcile just personally those aspect those more problematic aspects of 438 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:16,639 Speaker 1: hip hop culture that are not very respectful toward women 439 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:20,080 Speaker 1: and are very objectifying of women, Because this is something 440 00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:24,840 Speaker 1: anytime you read about hip hop and women and feminism, 441 00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:30,560 Speaker 1: it always circles back to that portrayal of women as 442 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:34,640 Speaker 1: just being sex objects essentially. Um. I think, I think 443 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,399 Speaker 1: when it comes to that sort of reconciliation, I do 444 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:41,640 Speaker 1: have to be um, really careful. UM. I say that 445 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:45,240 Speaker 1: because a lot of the problems that we had what's 446 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:49,720 Speaker 1: working this past year stems from just this one point 447 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:53,280 Speaker 1: of view about what working actually means. Um. Pitchfork put 448 00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:56,840 Speaker 1: up this great article by writer Puja Btel. She visits 449 00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:59,600 Speaker 1: New Orleans and it's this red Bull event that has 450 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:02,800 Speaker 1: like many fresh and like Big frieda like New Orleans, 451 00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:04,880 Speaker 1: you know, is the home a bounce music and we're 452 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:08,239 Speaker 1: working sense from Okay. So you know, she's on the 453 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:10,800 Speaker 1: ground and she's like asking them, like, you know, what 454 00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:14,159 Speaker 1: do you make of this national sensation that working is 455 00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:19,399 Speaker 1: now like twenty years later? And Um, the basis the 456 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:22,359 Speaker 1: basis of their argument was like you know, like it 457 00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:27,080 Speaker 1: is really interesting that the nation's basically sexualize this form 458 00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:30,560 Speaker 1: of dancing way more than we intended, Like we just 459 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:33,960 Speaker 1: look at it as like fun like recreation. You can 460 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:35,840 Speaker 1: see a four year old do it. The grandma's going 461 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,720 Speaker 1: to teach her how. But it's funny how the rest 462 00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:41,160 Speaker 1: of the nation sort of interprets it as this one thing. 463 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:44,840 Speaker 1: It's like that, like she's only meant to provoke or 464 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:49,359 Speaker 1: like ask for sex. So um, when I'm considering how 465 00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:54,159 Speaker 1: a male rapper talks about women and money, like I 466 00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:58,080 Speaker 1: really do have to sort of take everything in and 467 00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:00,320 Speaker 1: consider what that all means. Like a lot of hip 468 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:03,480 Speaker 1: hop is about these origin stories where people came from 469 00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:06,119 Speaker 1: the fact that they quote started from the bottom or whatever, 470 00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 1: and um, I also have to consider that, you know, 471 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:13,840 Speaker 1: for one, like a Hugh Heffner ideal to these people 472 00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:16,800 Speaker 1: who grew up in the projects is going to mean 473 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:19,080 Speaker 1: so much more than to somebody who grew up in 474 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:21,800 Speaker 1: a middle class, buttoned up upbringing, you know what I mean. 475 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:23,920 Speaker 1: So I do deal with it on a case by pace, 476 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:27,440 Speaker 1: case basis, and more often than not, I feel like 477 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:32,199 Speaker 1: I could sort of be okay with it. Doesn't go 478 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:34,240 Speaker 1: for every rapper basically, but I take a lot of 479 00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:36,480 Speaker 1: that into consideration, and maybe I take it in more 480 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,960 Speaker 1: into consideration because I'm a female, because I'm trying to 481 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:43,719 Speaker 1: sort of maybe reconcile with myself, like, Okay, why am 482 00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:47,800 Speaker 1: I drawn to this like and and all that good stuff? Yeah, 483 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:50,280 Speaker 1: and the thing is too hip hop is certainly not 484 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:54,760 Speaker 1: alone in terms of musical genres with problematic relationships with women, 485 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:59,120 Speaker 1: and yet I feel like it gets more scrutiny than 486 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:03,120 Speaker 1: any other type. But even if you go back, sometimes 487 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:05,240 Speaker 1: I'll be listening to the radio to like an all 488 00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:08,240 Speaker 1: these stations just pay attention to the lyrics and think 489 00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:12,399 Speaker 1: gets creepy even and just like really simple radio, even 490 00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 1: even Christmas music. Maybe it's cold outside, like that's a 491 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:18,119 Speaker 1: date rape song, right, So yeah, yeah, it gets it 492 00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:22,440 Speaker 1: gets weird all around. Okay, Well, speaking of that relationship 493 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:26,080 Speaker 1: that hip hop has with women and vice versa, do 494 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:29,919 Speaker 1: you think a that hip hop will ever kind of 495 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:36,040 Speaker 1: distance itself from that objectification and be does it need to? Um? 496 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:39,359 Speaker 1: It honestly depends on how the music industry um fares 497 00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:43,080 Speaker 1: over the next couple of years, because in history, it's 498 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:46,560 Speaker 1: in hip hop's history. Rather, the songs that have always 499 00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:48,959 Speaker 1: sold the best have always been the ones about injectifying 500 00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:51,919 Speaker 1: women in some way, shape or form. If not interpreted 501 00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,280 Speaker 1: as such, this dates all the way back over to 502 00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:56,639 Speaker 1: like from like the two Live group, but then you 503 00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:59,320 Speaker 1: can trace it from Juvenile to jay Z like if 504 00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:03,120 Speaker 1: you look like those are the biggest selling songs. So 505 00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:06,200 Speaker 1: for as long as the music industry maybe looking for 506 00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:11,159 Speaker 1: ways to make money, I'm not a percent sure about that, um, 507 00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:14,679 Speaker 1: whether it needs to UM that. I just have a 508 00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:18,320 Speaker 1: really tough time answering, because again, I really try to 509 00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:22,520 Speaker 1: look at it as like an individual on basis like 510 00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:24,879 Speaker 1: like what does this all mean want? Like what does 511 00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:28,600 Speaker 1: it mean for somebody to want a gaggle of you know, 512 00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:31,439 Speaker 1: women ready for the v I P Section? You know 513 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:34,200 Speaker 1: what I mean? Maybe that's giving people, um a little 514 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:36,800 Speaker 1: bit more credit than they deserve. Um. But at the 515 00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:40,920 Speaker 1: same time, I think basically what I'm pining for, honestly 516 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 1: is just a more well rounded UM sort of landscape 517 00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:50,040 Speaker 1: where you can you can have like juicy j bands 518 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:52,440 Speaker 1: and maker dance, but you could also have like if 519 00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:55,360 Speaker 1: Outcast comes back, that would be wonderful because like throughout 520 00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:58,560 Speaker 1: their entire discography, I mean, they get angry at women, 521 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:01,480 Speaker 1: and they pine for women and all that other stuff, 522 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:05,400 Speaker 1: but they're just overall just like exploring their relationship, um 523 00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:08,560 Speaker 1: with women, and sometimes that has an uglier moment, but 524 00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:12,840 Speaker 1: I mean overall, it's it's a more human perspective, I guess, 525 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:16,920 Speaker 1: And so, um, I think more voices is more important 526 00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:21,360 Speaker 1: perhaps than distancing itself from like the sexual objectification, and 527 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:25,200 Speaker 1: so maybe then everybody else who's listening to hip hop 528 00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:28,320 Speaker 1: and taking it all in could have that same well 529 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:31,920 Speaker 1: rounded perspective of what the genre has to offer. I 530 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:35,160 Speaker 1: wonder though, I mean, you're talking about how it'll probably 531 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:39,040 Speaker 1: largely depend on the direction that the music industry is going, 532 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:42,320 Speaker 1: and it it doesn't seem like people are wanting to 533 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:45,520 Speaker 1: buy records more than they used to, you know. Um, well, 534 00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:49,320 Speaker 1: you mentioned that that it will largely depend on the 535 00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:52,280 Speaker 1: direction of the music industry, and it seems like there 536 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:55,640 Speaker 1: has not been a radical change to where younger kids 537 00:29:55,720 --> 00:30:00,160 Speaker 1: suddenly want to spend their allowances on buying CDs and records, 538 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:03,000 Speaker 1: so that that is probably going to still say the 539 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:07,520 Speaker 1: same where it's where it's a challenge to sell actual music, 540 00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:10,720 Speaker 1: and so as a result, as we've talked about earlier, 541 00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:15,880 Speaker 1: we're getting this very homogenized almost recycled list of male 542 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:17,960 Speaker 1: rappers that were seeing over and never again. So what 543 00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:21,240 Speaker 1: would it take do you think to provide that kind 544 00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:25,840 Speaker 1: of diversity that you would like to see more of? UM? 545 00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:28,160 Speaker 1: I actually think that the direction that it's heating right 546 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:31,480 Speaker 1: now is really promising. UM. Along with this year for 547 00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:36,120 Speaker 1: for there being such a lack of female voices, there 548 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:40,200 Speaker 1: was also this really UM exciting trend where suddenly lyricism 549 00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:42,640 Speaker 1: became the priority. Not that it always has to be, 550 00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:45,520 Speaker 1: but you know, when you when you focus on lyrics, 551 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:47,880 Speaker 1: you by default have to focus more on like the 552 00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:52,560 Speaker 1: storytelling aspects of it all. And so UM, what I'm 553 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:55,520 Speaker 1: seeing a lot of you know, in relation to that 554 00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:58,400 Speaker 1: is that UM, there are more actions touring in general, 555 00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:01,920 Speaker 1: and that becomes especially important for independent artists UM, and 556 00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:05,120 Speaker 1: especially those who pre zent a different point of view 557 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:09,520 Speaker 1: than what radio might be UM might be selling. UM. 558 00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:11,960 Speaker 1: The greatest example is probably being like Chance the Rapper, 559 00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:14,840 Speaker 1: but also UM killer Mike out if here in Atlanta 560 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:17,680 Speaker 1: and all the stuff that he's done with UM LPH 561 00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:21,160 Speaker 1: through Run the Jewels. UM. They're touring and people are 562 00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:23,920 Speaker 1: paying for that. Young people are paying for that. So 563 00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:26,600 Speaker 1: if it does continue in that sort of direction we're 564 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:29,600 Speaker 1: touring becomes you know, a bigger money maker than maybe 565 00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:34,400 Speaker 1: these these records in itself than um, you know, maybe 566 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:36,960 Speaker 1: maybe we will start to see the sort of changes 567 00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:41,120 Speaker 1: that I want. Well, So as far as people who 568 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:44,680 Speaker 1: are women in particular, who are in the hip hop 569 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:48,160 Speaker 1: world right now, who are some of your favorites, I mean, 570 00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:51,400 Speaker 1: who's who's promising an up and coming that you're excited about? 571 00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:53,960 Speaker 1: And who are some more established artists that you think 572 00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:56,360 Speaker 1: that people need to be more aware of. Um. As 573 00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:58,840 Speaker 1: far as newer artists, I admit I definitely need to 574 00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:01,640 Speaker 1: be better at versed and that. Um. But um, going 575 00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:03,680 Speaker 1: back to what I was talking about with a three 576 00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:06,240 Speaker 1: C like again, the most exciting show that I saw 577 00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:08,800 Speaker 1: was a buy a girl named Katie got fans. She 578 00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:10,760 Speaker 1: was doing a Chicago showcase. And she is not the 579 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:13,560 Speaker 1: most lyrical person out there. Um. She seems to be 580 00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:15,800 Speaker 1: influenced a lot by Waka Flaga Flame like who I 581 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:19,640 Speaker 1: always compared to Andrew w K so um, but it 582 00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:24,760 Speaker 1: was so exhilarating just to see her, um see her 583 00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:27,960 Speaker 1: perform because she was totally mobbed up on stage and 584 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:31,200 Speaker 1: as a result, the crowd became like a way, like 585 00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:33,400 Speaker 1: literally everyone was like jumping up and down. I was like, 586 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:38,200 Speaker 1: I don't think I've seen anyone period like excite people 587 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:40,640 Speaker 1: the way that she did. Um, So that made me 588 00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:45,320 Speaker 1: really really stoked. Um, as far as you know, more established, like, 589 00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:48,480 Speaker 1: I'm actually really really huge fan of Dicki Minaj because 590 00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:53,000 Speaker 1: of just how deliberately weird that she can be like 591 00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:57,240 Speaker 1: she like when she's, you know, trying to cross over 592 00:32:57,280 --> 00:32:59,520 Speaker 1: into pop, she's not even just like dipping her toes 593 00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:02,960 Speaker 1: into it as most male rappers would. She basically goes 594 00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:06,400 Speaker 1: all the way. And then when she rapped, she commits 595 00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:09,000 Speaker 1: to it, and I just and I just love that. Um. 596 00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:13,120 Speaker 1: And then in general, like Lauren Hill and Missy Elliott, 597 00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:15,240 Speaker 1: like Missy Ellatt was supposed to release an album last 598 00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:17,920 Speaker 1: year and she didn't, and it made me really really 599 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:21,720 Speaker 1: sad because she's literally the sole reason why I tried 600 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:26,960 Speaker 1: to pull off track suits in middle school. I tried, 601 00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:29,720 Speaker 1: and it did not work. It did not work. Um. 602 00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:31,840 Speaker 1: And in addition to that, I appreciate her all the 603 00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:36,479 Speaker 1: more as an adult because, um, like she she dressed 604 00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:39,560 Speaker 1: as a quote unquote tomboy. She dresses run DMC used 605 00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:42,240 Speaker 1: to but at the same time, she owned her sexuality, 606 00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:44,240 Speaker 1: she was not afraid to ask for what she wanted. 607 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:48,640 Speaker 1: Um So, well, one thing, one name we haven't mentioned. 608 00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:51,280 Speaker 1: I mean, speaking about the way that an artist dresses, 609 00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:53,760 Speaker 1: what's your take on Janelle Monet from here in Atlanta. 610 00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:57,320 Speaker 1: I love the way that Janelle mone A dresses, and 611 00:33:57,360 --> 00:33:59,800 Speaker 1: I love the way that she's also sort of like 612 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:04,600 Speaker 1: toyed with it because I just think it's really um 613 00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:09,799 Speaker 1: interesting how people made so many assumptions of her initially 614 00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:12,440 Speaker 1: based on how she dressed. It was really interesting to 615 00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:15,720 Speaker 1: see her walking a tuxedo and then look online to see, 616 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:19,680 Speaker 1: um all these questions about whether she was a lesbian 617 00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:22,239 Speaker 1: or not, as if sexuality was as black and white 618 00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:24,759 Speaker 1: as their uniform. Um so, I'm a huge fan of 619 00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:29,640 Speaker 1: that for sure. Yeah. Well, speaking of Missy Elliott inspiring 620 00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:31,680 Speaker 1: you in middle school to try to pull up track suits, 621 00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:35,400 Speaker 1: which is amazing. We should have asked you this earlier 622 00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:40,239 Speaker 1: in the podcast. What sparked your desire to want to 623 00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:47,040 Speaker 1: get into hip hop journalism specifically? Well, it kind of 624 00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:50,320 Speaker 1: happened on accident, be totally honest. It really just happened 625 00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:54,240 Speaker 1: from when I moved here to Atlanta, a city where 626 00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:58,880 Speaker 1: you know, the industry runs rampant, So there's that, but um, 627 00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:01,960 Speaker 1: I guess more important me my my love of Like 628 00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:05,799 Speaker 1: I felt comfortable enough going into hip hop journalism because 629 00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:07,880 Speaker 1: I've been a land of hip hop for so long 630 00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:10,160 Speaker 1: and I think I take to it the way that 631 00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:12,480 Speaker 1: a lot of the youth takes to it now, and 632 00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:17,360 Speaker 1: that it's just a part of culture, pop culture, like 633 00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:21,200 Speaker 1: mainstream culture, independent culture, like it's everywhere, And um, I 634 00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:25,040 Speaker 1: just had very specific memories of growing up in a 635 00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:28,520 Speaker 1: Maryland suburb but then watching MTB two because I was 636 00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:31,279 Speaker 1: out there trying to look for something that I wasn't 637 00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:34,560 Speaker 1: finding anywhere else. And at the same time, I just 638 00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:37,920 Speaker 1: remember taking to jay z Is the Black album, not 639 00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:41,360 Speaker 1: even because like I'm a business mogul, not because I 640 00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:46,000 Speaker 1: was anywhere near retirement, but because he was telling these 641 00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:49,760 Speaker 1: stories about how he grew up without a father and 642 00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:52,760 Speaker 1: being a child to divorced parents. I could percent relate 643 00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:56,880 Speaker 1: to that. So I guess, like, going into the journalism aspect, 644 00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:59,480 Speaker 1: I knew that, you know, a lot of my favorite 645 00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:02,839 Speaker 1: people or humans just like I were, and then from 646 00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:07,719 Speaker 1: there on out, it's been Um, I haven't felt like 647 00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:12,799 Speaker 1: discourage enough to step away from that by any means. Well, 648 00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:15,399 Speaker 1: I feel like we've kind of gone around this issue 649 00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:17,879 Speaker 1: and we haven't touched on it directly yet. Um, but 650 00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:20,680 Speaker 1: what do you think what's the intersection between hip hop 651 00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:24,239 Speaker 1: and feminism and and do you think feminism informs the 652 00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:26,759 Speaker 1: work of a lot of female artists out there or 653 00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:29,560 Speaker 1: do you think it's something that's kind of lacking. Yeah, 654 00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:33,960 Speaker 1: because for listeners who might not know, in the late nineties, 655 00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:38,080 Speaker 1: the term hip hop feminism was coined because of this 656 00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:44,960 Speaker 1: idea that these incredible strong rappers like Mr Elliott, Eve, etcetera, 657 00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:48,040 Speaker 1: we're standing up and oh and like with rock Sand's 658 00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:51,200 Speaker 1: Revenge of turning down the advances of men and kind 659 00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:56,000 Speaker 1: of setting their own terms for things. Is Yeah, it 660 00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:59,920 Speaker 1: is rapid at all informed by feminism. Um. I think 661 00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:03,960 Speaker 1: that hip hops had too sort of debate over that 662 00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:06,680 Speaker 1: for a really long time. And it's just like just 663 00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:10,359 Speaker 1: like with a lot of pop stars right now, who like, 664 00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:12,640 Speaker 1: for some reason over the past year, have had to 665 00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:17,319 Speaker 1: clarify whether they're feminists, whether they're not feminists and not 666 00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:21,040 Speaker 1: show the clearest grasp but what that means per se, Like, 667 00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:24,160 Speaker 1: I feel like rappers have to deal with that a lot, 668 00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:26,560 Speaker 1: and I feel like the ways that it's manifested is 669 00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:30,399 Speaker 1: so interesting because suddenly it always becomes a question of 670 00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:34,520 Speaker 1: how much do you play up your sexuality? Like the 671 00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:39,560 Speaker 1: It's it's very tricky because you had you had rappers 672 00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:43,640 Speaker 1: like Trina who displayed and owned her sexuality because she 673 00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:45,920 Speaker 1: was very much inspired by Milly Jackson who was not 674 00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:49,360 Speaker 1: afraid to make records about sex and wanting sex and 675 00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:52,319 Speaker 1: craving sex. But then you also have that, but then 676 00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:55,400 Speaker 1: there's also those same sort of pressures and they you know, 677 00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:58,560 Speaker 1: happen upon people that aren't as comfortable with that or whatever. 678 00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:07,360 Speaker 1: So it's, um, yeah, I feel like they've enter, like 679 00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:13,080 Speaker 1: it intersects, but in a way that just makes us 680 00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:16,799 Speaker 1: crave it all the more because it is sort of 681 00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:19,440 Speaker 1: a rarity, kind of what I was mentioning before with 682 00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:23,319 Speaker 1: with Outcasts. Actually, um, Melissa Rosenberg, I think Progress, wrote 683 00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:25,960 Speaker 1: a really great article about why she's looking forward to 684 00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:28,680 Speaker 1: the Outcasts reunion being a feminist hip hop band, and 685 00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:30,080 Speaker 1: it was going back to what I was saying before. 686 00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:34,200 Speaker 1: It was just that they these women were actual, like 687 00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:37,320 Speaker 1: three D characters in their wraps as opposed to being 688 00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:42,880 Speaker 1: mirror accessories. You know, um, not just saying that, like 689 00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:45,160 Speaker 1: in the words of Dr dre Ches, ain't but hos 690 00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:50,040 Speaker 1: in tricks. So um yeah, um, it's intersected before um, 691 00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:54,719 Speaker 1: but it's just right now like it's I think, like 692 00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:58,680 Speaker 1: with all with pop in general, we're still trying to 693 00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:02,799 Speaker 1: get a firm graph and tell everybody like, this is 694 00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:07,759 Speaker 1: what feminism means. It's okay, it's going to be fine. Well, 695 00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:10,839 Speaker 1: and I think to have someone like Nicki Minaj, even 696 00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:13,400 Speaker 1: though she is the name that comes up over and 697 00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:16,759 Speaker 1: over and over again because she really is the one 698 00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:19,480 Speaker 1: female powerhouse out there in hip hop, but at least 699 00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:22,520 Speaker 1: she is the one talking about how the fact of 700 00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:25,440 Speaker 1: the matter is is that if you are being an 701 00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:29,600 Speaker 1: outspoken powerful woman as she is, that you are criticized, 702 00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:32,800 Speaker 1: whereas if you're Little Wayne or j Z and calling 703 00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:35,560 Speaker 1: the shots and you're just a boss right right, Thank 704 00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:38,480 Speaker 1: goodness for her. Like there's this YouTube video that's eight 705 00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:41,160 Speaker 1: minutes long and it's called, um, I believe it's called 706 00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:46,399 Speaker 1: Dickie Manaj Feminist icon and um after this year, not 707 00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:49,120 Speaker 1: dealing with any personal interactions, would say, but just like 708 00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:51,760 Speaker 1: kind of taking in music in general and especially mainstream 709 00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:55,759 Speaker 1: pep hop, where I felt like it was it was 710 00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:58,880 Speaker 1: tough to be a female hip hop fan. Like I 711 00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:01,279 Speaker 1: would watch that video just like over and over and 712 00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:04,400 Speaker 1: over again, like, oh, thank god you're here. UM. I 713 00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:09,040 Speaker 1: point in particular to um this verse that Rick Ross 714 00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:12,000 Speaker 1: had said, and like that Rocco song you Oly, you 715 00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:13,839 Speaker 1: don't know you guys know what I'm talking about. Yeah, 716 00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:15,920 Speaker 1: where Um he says he puts a molly in her 717 00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:19,400 Speaker 1: champagne and things like that. UM, so kind of hearing 718 00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:25,280 Speaker 1: that everywhere. Um. Just even though Rebok dropped him from 719 00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:28,920 Speaker 1: his endorsement deal, and even though Rappers filed into the 720 00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:31,640 Speaker 1: studio to basically record a new version of the song 721 00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:37,400 Speaker 1: that omitted his verse, UM, I still heard it. And UM, 722 00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:43,000 Speaker 1: thank goodness for that YouTube video. Well, Christina, thank you 723 00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:45,839 Speaker 1: so much for coming on the show. Is there anything 724 00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:52,920 Speaker 1: about women hip hop culture, rappers, MC's break dancers, graffiti, etcetera. 725 00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:56,800 Speaker 1: That we didn't ask you about? Any any parting words 726 00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:02,560 Speaker 1: for our audience? Um, the relationship between women and hip hop. 727 00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:07,600 Speaker 1: I think that in general, UM, hip hop and the 728 00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:10,040 Speaker 1: industry that powers it just sort of needs to keep 729 00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:14,080 Speaker 1: in mind that women are more complicated beings then the 730 00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:16,920 Speaker 1: most people make us out to be UM, it is 731 00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:21,200 Speaker 1: tough working in genres that in which male perspective is 732 00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:23,600 Speaker 1: the default, and maybe where it's also just a reflection 733 00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:28,080 Speaker 1: of like pop culture in general. UM, But more often 734 00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:30,919 Speaker 1: than not, what the majority of the country is hearing 735 00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:35,520 Speaker 1: is just this idea again that females are these accessories 736 00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:37,360 Speaker 1: or they only like this thing, and they're only like 737 00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:41,080 Speaker 1: that thing, and they're completely not looking out towards the crowd. 738 00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:45,239 Speaker 1: Seeing that females dance is the quote unquote strip club 739 00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:48,160 Speaker 1: song is just because they sound way more fun. So 740 00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:52,880 Speaker 1: I think those are I think that is something that 741 00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:55,880 Speaker 1: I would want to emphasize that, you know, there are 742 00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:58,040 Speaker 1: females that don't want to be sexualized and there are 743 00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:00,920 Speaker 1: females who want to own their sexuality well, and it 744 00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:03,560 Speaker 1: sounds like in the same way that the industry needs 745 00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:07,120 Speaker 1: to recognize that women are more complex than just being 746 00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:10,360 Speaker 1: hose and tricks, is that we as the listening public 747 00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:13,759 Speaker 1: also needs to recognize that hip hop and hip hop 748 00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:17,520 Speaker 1: culturing where that comes from is more complex than just 749 00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:20,600 Speaker 1: you know, people who are wanting to go to a 750 00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:22,160 Speaker 1: strip club and meet you in the v I P 751 00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:24,359 Speaker 1: Room and then that's it, and that's and that it's 752 00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:28,400 Speaker 1: all bad. Absolutely, yeah, we definitely need to, Um, we 753 00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:32,160 Speaker 1: definitely need to you know, revisit some of hip hop 754 00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:35,400 Speaker 1: history and see the ways that mainstream hip hop like 755 00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:40,520 Speaker 1: even like it's funny. How Um, when we talk about 756 00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:43,000 Speaker 1: hip hop, we talk about this really problematic history that 757 00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:46,880 Speaker 1: has with misogyny and sexism and things like that. Um. 758 00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:50,280 Speaker 1: But I was on a juvenile music video watching binge, 759 00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:53,120 Speaker 1: like a couple of weeks ago, and I was watching 760 00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:55,399 Speaker 1: like all from all the way to the beginning over 761 00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:58,160 Speaker 1: to slow motion, and I thought I was setting myself 762 00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:00,440 Speaker 1: up for trouble. I guess because I just haven't heard 763 00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:04,719 Speaker 1: back that us up since high school maybe. Um. But 764 00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:08,279 Speaker 1: something that just struck me more than anything else was 765 00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:12,120 Speaker 1: that the women that he featured in these videos, whether 766 00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:15,040 Speaker 1: they were facing the camera or not facing the camera, 767 00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:18,680 Speaker 1: was that he looked as if he pulled them directly 768 00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:21,360 Speaker 1: off the street, Like they were in jeans and T 769 00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:24,920 Speaker 1: shirts and sun dresses, paired in sneakers, and they weren't 770 00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:28,520 Speaker 1: made up, and they were just there. They were there, 771 00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:32,799 Speaker 1: just doing their thing. And it struck me because when 772 00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:37,120 Speaker 1: I watched music videos now, or I watched music videos, 773 00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:40,480 Speaker 1: depictions of hip hop music videos now, like I just 774 00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:43,640 Speaker 1: see this one doll the v I P club Ready 775 00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:47,640 Speaker 1: image or whatever, so I think it. I think juvenile 776 00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:53,800 Speaker 1: was in the right well to wrap it up. Uh Um. 777 00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:56,200 Speaker 1: We want to hear from our listeners now, any hip 778 00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:58,200 Speaker 1: hop and rap fans out there, let us know what 779 00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:02,080 Speaker 1: you think about our discussion with Christina the hip Hop 780 00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:07,120 Speaker 1: Journalist extraordinaire. Yeah, and if you have any favorite female 781 00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:10,040 Speaker 1: rappers or hip hop artists, etcetera that we did not 782 00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:13,960 Speaker 1: name check, definitely let us know as well, because we 783 00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:17,360 Speaker 1: need more names. I feel like we need more recommendations 784 00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:22,439 Speaker 1: of women to listen to because women have rhymes, we've 785 00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:25,799 Speaker 1: got beats. I mean I don't personally, but yes, I 786 00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:28,920 Speaker 1: admit that other women do. I yeah. My dream talent 787 00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:32,680 Speaker 1: is to be able to freestyle, and I tried every 788 00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:36,840 Speaker 1: now and then, and I can't even snap in time 789 00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:40,239 Speaker 1: with music or tap my foot, so I don't know. 790 00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:42,680 Speaker 1: I always start out with my name is Kristen, and 791 00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:45,600 Speaker 1: I'm here to say and then I got nothing to say. 792 00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:50,360 Speaker 1: So if you also have any suggestions for sweet rhymes 793 00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:53,640 Speaker 1: for me, email us. Mom Stuff at Discovery dot com 794 00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:55,640 Speaker 1: is where you can send your letters. You can also 795 00:44:55,719 --> 00:44:58,480 Speaker 1: tweet us at mom Stuff podcast and find us on 796 00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:01,759 Speaker 1: Facebook messages they like us while you're at it, and 797 00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:04,080 Speaker 1: we've got a few messages to share with you when 798 00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:06,799 Speaker 1: we come right back from a quick break and now 799 00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:11,680 Speaker 1: back to our letters. Well, I've been an email here 800 00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:16,000 Speaker 1: from Jillian about our episode on whether women apologize more 801 00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:20,760 Speaker 1: than men, and like me, she tends to be overly apologetic. 802 00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:23,200 Speaker 1: She writes, I noticed this about myself a couple of 803 00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:25,359 Speaker 1: years ago and have made a conscious effort to try 804 00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:29,480 Speaker 1: and stop myself, unless, of course, I really need to apologize. 805 00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:31,080 Speaker 1: One thing that happens to me a lot is that 806 00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:33,840 Speaker 1: I'm a really fast walker, probably because I'm sure and 807 00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:35,440 Speaker 1: most people are much taller than me and I need 808 00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:38,040 Speaker 1: to keep up. Also, probably because I've been a distance 809 00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:41,680 Speaker 1: runner for sixteen years, and further because I'm a Bostonian 810 00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:45,479 Speaker 1: and stereotypically I'm always on the go anyway. I find 811 00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:48,160 Speaker 1: myself turning corners fast or walking quickly through the halls 812 00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:50,040 Speaker 1: of my hospital on my way to meetings, and I 813 00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:53,640 Speaker 1: have several close call collisions. So I found myself always 814 00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:55,960 Speaker 1: saying sorry when I ran into people, and noticed it 815 00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:58,439 Speaker 1: more often than not because when I ran into men, 816 00:45:58,680 --> 00:46:01,239 Speaker 1: I never got a sorry back, but when I ran 817 00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:04,440 Speaker 1: into women, we were both sorry each other to death. 818 00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:08,600 Speaker 1: So I consciously decided to say something different. Now, when 819 00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:10,960 Speaker 1: I run into someone, I say whoops and give a 820 00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:14,000 Speaker 1: big smile, and find that with women it's a similar 821 00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:17,160 Speaker 1: nonverbal exchange. And for men who don't normally say they're 822 00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:20,440 Speaker 1: sorry when they run into me, I feel less overly apologetic, 823 00:46:20,719 --> 00:46:24,680 Speaker 1: but still conscious that I almost ran into them. So 824 00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:27,400 Speaker 1: thanks for that, Jillian, and I know what she's talking about. 825 00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:30,799 Speaker 1: I have the close calls as well, and I do apologize. 826 00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:32,759 Speaker 1: I do say I'm sorry, I say excuse me, and 827 00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:36,799 Speaker 1: giggle nervously in turn red and then keep walking. It's 828 00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:40,960 Speaker 1: a whole scenario. Do a Jillian just say whoops, whoops, whoops, 829 00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:42,719 Speaker 1: and then throw my hands in the air and do 830 00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:45,480 Speaker 1: a little jig. Yes anyway, Um, I have a letter 831 00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:48,520 Speaker 1: here from Mariah. She was writing in in response to 832 00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:54,640 Speaker 1: our pants and Skirt episode The History of Pants, and 833 00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:58,560 Speaker 1: it sounds like, Kristen, you and I mispronounced a couple 834 00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:01,400 Speaker 1: of things and she wanted to clarify as well as 835 00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:04,080 Speaker 1: give us some definitions. Yeah, because what we've mispronounced I 836 00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:06,880 Speaker 1: relieve was some Old English. Yeah, so how did we 837 00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:12,319 Speaker 1: ever mispronounce that? I don't know. Um anyway, Mariah says, 838 00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:14,799 Speaker 1: you mentioned the Old English word, and I'm going to 839 00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:17,600 Speaker 1: pronounce it the way we pronounced it or mispronounced it, skirt. 840 00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:21,719 Speaker 1: You said that this is where our modern skirt comes from. 841 00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:26,360 Speaker 1: In Old English, the sc combination sounds like our s h. 842 00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:30,280 Speaker 1: In other words, the Old English word skirt or shirt 843 00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:33,800 Speaker 1: actually refers to the word shirt. Are you following, somebody 844 00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:37,320 Speaker 1: following from filling um? Well, she says, in Old English, 845 00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:42,840 Speaker 1: a shirt pronounced shirta. Okay, sorry, So in Old English 846 00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:47,440 Speaker 1: a shirta referred to a tunic. Shirt and skirt absolutely 847 00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:51,600 Speaker 1: have the same etymological history. However, your use of shirta 848 00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:55,239 Speaker 1: to refer to skirts kept throwing me off every time 849 00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:58,080 Speaker 1: I heard it. By the way, Old Norse, Old English, 850 00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:00,759 Speaker 1: and Anglo Saxon have an absolutely fat sinating history, and 851 00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:03,320 Speaker 1: I highly recommend a little bit of just for fun research. 852 00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:08,040 Speaker 1: And yeah, I think we mentioned that, okamily, sure to. 853 00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:10,560 Speaker 1: I think we mentioned that that was like a long 854 00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:13,920 Speaker 1: tunic because I remember making a joke about how it 855 00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:16,000 Speaker 1: made me think of Monty Python and the Holy Grail. 856 00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:18,080 Speaker 1: The peasants by the side of the road in the mud, 857 00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:22,240 Speaker 1: so we were Yes, I'm very sorry that we mispronounced 858 00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:26,240 Speaker 1: shirt to hey, don't apologize. Oh you're right. Whoops, whoops, 859 00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:29,520 Speaker 1: there we go. Thank you, Jillian, and thanks to everybody 860 00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:31,919 Speaker 1: who has written in mom Stuff at Discovery dot com 861 00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:34,200 Speaker 1: is where you can send your letters. You can also 862 00:48:34,239 --> 00:48:36,719 Speaker 1: follow us on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast and find 863 00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:39,120 Speaker 1: us on Facebook as well, and you can keep up 864 00:48:39,160 --> 00:48:41,640 Speaker 1: with us during the week on Instagram at stuff mom 865 00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:44,200 Speaker 1: Never told You in tumbler stuff mom Never Told You 866 00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:47,919 Speaker 1: dot tumbler dot com. And as always, we have so 867 00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:51,200 Speaker 1: many videos for your viewing pleasure over at YouTube, so 868 00:48:51,239 --> 00:48:53,760 Speaker 1: you should check out our channel. It's YouTube dot com, 869 00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:58,680 Speaker 1: slash stuff mom Never Told You, and don't forget to subscribe. 870 00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:03,399 Speaker 1: For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit 871 00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:13,200 Speaker 1: how stuff Works dot com.