1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:06,440 Speaker 1: Conversations on life, style, beauty, and relationships. It's The Velvet's 2 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:08,240 Speaker 1: Edge podcast with Kelly Henderson. 3 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:12,160 Speaker 2: Jason Harris is the co founder and CEO of Mechanism 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 2: and award winning creative advertising agency whose clients include Ben 5 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:20,880 Speaker 2: and Jerry's, Peloton, OK Cupid, Molsencor's, and Alaska Airlines. He's 6 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:23,239 Speaker 2: also the author of the best selling book The Soulful 7 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:26,760 Speaker 2: Art of Persuasion. Jason is also the host of the 8 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:30,040 Speaker 2: Soul and Science podcast. Harris has been named in the 9 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:33,560 Speaker 2: top ten most influential Social impact leaders, as well as 10 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 2: the four A's list of one hundred people who make 11 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:39,680 Speaker 2: Advertising Great. His methods are studyed in cases at Harvard 12 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 2: Business School. Hi, Jason, Hey, we're Thome. 13 00:00:42,479 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 3: Kelly. 14 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 4: Thanks for having me. 15 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 2: We were just talking. We have a friend in common 16 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:49,800 Speaker 2: with Cassidy Bentley, who's probably listening to this podcast. So 17 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:53,519 Speaker 2: what upcast? What shall be mortified that I just called 18 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:57,800 Speaker 2: her out? But so each month on the podcast, we 19 00:00:57,880 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 2: have a word as a theme, and this month's word 20 00:00:59,880 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 2: is abandon. So it was easy for me to see 21 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:05,080 Speaker 2: when I was reading your credentials, just that you've had 22 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:09,760 Speaker 2: major success in career in this lifetime, but What actually 23 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:12,320 Speaker 2: drew me to your story was the connection you're making 24 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 2: between the power of vulnerability, transparency, empathy, and building a 25 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:21,560 Speaker 2: successful full life. Because we were talking before the podcast 26 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:24,040 Speaker 2: and I said, I know, just as men in this world, 27 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:28,559 Speaker 2: it's just much less accepted to be any of those 28 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:31,679 Speaker 2: emotions or to have those emotions. So I want to 29 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:34,840 Speaker 2: talk through just to start what you're learning or what 30 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:38,200 Speaker 2: you've learned about how to abandon to tie in our 31 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:42,320 Speaker 2: word this month, just those old programming mentalities and you know, 32 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 2: just about masculinity and being more open emotionally. So can 33 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 2: you speak to that a little bit? 34 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 4: Yeah, sure, abandoned. I like that, I like that you 35 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 4: have a word. Yeah. 36 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 3: But I you know, I think I used to really 37 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:06,240 Speaker 3: lead in much more of a traditional sense where everything, 38 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:09,080 Speaker 3: you know, I never I had like a coat of armor, 39 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:12,080 Speaker 3: and I never really showed that there were chinks in 40 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 3: it or that I was having problems or that I was. 41 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:20,079 Speaker 4: You know, in need of of you know, doing my 42 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 4: work on myself like therapy, et cetera. 43 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:25,920 Speaker 3: And so I was a little harder to connect with 44 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 3: for people that I worked with, because I thought as 45 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:33,080 Speaker 3: a leader, you had to project you know, strength, and 46 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:36,360 Speaker 3: that there was no problems because that would kind of 47 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 3: resonate through the you know company. 48 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 4: And I don't know, about five or six years ago, 49 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:44,960 Speaker 4: I was. 50 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:49,799 Speaker 3: Starting to go through a divorce, you know, my personal 51 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:54,720 Speaker 3: life was kind of crumbling. I had some you know, 52 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 3: challenges at work, and I think that was like the 53 00:02:57,400 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 3: switch for me where I really decided, you know, I 54 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 3: need to help myself, and if I can talk about 55 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 3: the help I'm getting and the work that I'm doing 56 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:13,400 Speaker 3: on myself, I can kind of normalize that it's something 57 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:17,239 Speaker 3: to talk about in the culture of the workplace. So 58 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 3: that really changed me and kind of transformed the way 59 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 3: I think about leading, and I think about kind of 60 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:28,080 Speaker 3: bringing your personal and your work life together and just 61 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 3: being more human and empathetic and being able to have 62 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:37,040 Speaker 3: those conversations versus trying to hide that away or act 63 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 3: like everything's going smoothly all the time, which it never 64 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:41,840 Speaker 3: is in anyone's life. 65 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:45,640 Speaker 4: Right eat. So I had to go through that change. 66 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 4: It wasn't natural. 67 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 3: When you talk about you talk about sort of the 68 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 3: masculine role. 69 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 4: I don't think that was you know, It certainly wasn't 70 00:03:57,320 --> 00:03:58,280 Speaker 4: how I was raised. 71 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 3: It wasn't you know, in my house we didn't, you know, 72 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 3: really talk about things at a deep level. So I 73 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 3: sort of was programmed that way and I had to 74 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 3: kind of break that down to, you know, work in 75 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 3: a different way and try to combine my personal and 76 00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:23,000 Speaker 3: my business life and really bring my whole self to 77 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 3: both sides. 78 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:25,599 Speaker 4: Of my life. 79 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:28,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, we were saying a little bit before the podcast, 80 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:31,840 Speaker 2: like I feel like one of the narratives in our 81 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:37,040 Speaker 2: culture sometimes with this feminism movement, it's just sort of 82 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:39,839 Speaker 2: this like, well, men don't get it, you know, we 83 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:41,800 Speaker 2: kind of hate on men a little bit, or they 84 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:43,400 Speaker 2: don't feel things the same way. 85 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 3: Is that true? 86 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:48,159 Speaker 2: Because from my perspective, the way I see it is 87 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 2: that from an early age, men are sort of programmed 88 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 2: to don't feel, don't talk about it. You have to 89 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:57,800 Speaker 2: be the strong one, you have to keep it all together, 90 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:00,160 Speaker 2: kind of like what you were just saying. Yeah, and 91 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:03,040 Speaker 2: it's really just doing a real disservice to men as 92 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 2: human beings. 93 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:04,359 Speaker 4: I feel. 94 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:05,240 Speaker 2: Can you speak to that. 95 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:09,479 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that we you know, obviously there's a 96 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:13,480 Speaker 3: lot and it's all changing, which is like fantastic because 97 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:19,600 Speaker 3: I think there's lots of studies, you know, HBr studies, 98 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:23,960 Speaker 3: et cetera. That show, you know, building a culture and 99 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:27,880 Speaker 3: real leadership isn't the old guard and the way we 100 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 3: think about it currently, So I think it's rapidly changing. 101 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 4: But I do think we overlook the kind of mind fuck. 102 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 3: That men have when they're trying to either build be 103 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 3: an entrepreneur, build a business or this you know, decades 104 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:51,240 Speaker 3: and decades of history of the different roles, gender roles, 105 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:54,720 Speaker 3: but I think that's all starting to crumble. But we 106 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:57,440 Speaker 3: never really think about because no one wants to hear 107 00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:01,240 Speaker 3: like how hard it is for white male you know, 108 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:03,400 Speaker 3: no one wants to hear that that side of it, 109 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:05,359 Speaker 3: but it is there are. 110 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:08,320 Speaker 4: Ingrained behaviors that. 111 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 3: We have to fight against, just like women have to 112 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:15,120 Speaker 3: fight against, you know, trying to you know, like balance 113 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 3: being you know, hard working and a great mom and 114 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 3: spending time at home or with your partner and also 115 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:27,760 Speaker 3: being independent but not too independent. And I think men 116 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:31,240 Speaker 3: also have that challenge. But it's not something no one 117 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 3: wants to hear men complain right like right, well right, 118 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:37,840 Speaker 3: it's not we're not allowed. 119 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:38,200 Speaker 4: To really do that. 120 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:43,600 Speaker 3: But I think we can become softer and more feminine 121 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 3: and connect by saying, hey, we we we're all humans 122 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 3: and we face similar insecurities or imposter syndrome. Even though 123 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:56,720 Speaker 3: we're supposed to cover it up, we face we face 124 00:06:56,760 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 3: those same challenges as well. 125 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:00,920 Speaker 2: Right, And we were kind to talking a little bit 126 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:04,720 Speaker 2: about just you know, how connected everyone in the universe 127 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:06,919 Speaker 2: actually is, and both of us are kind of on 128 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 2: a journey of exploring that mentality. And I do agree 129 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:15,120 Speaker 2: with you. I think everyone sort of carries their own shit, right, 130 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 2: Like everyone was dealt something different, and so I think 131 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:21,440 Speaker 2: we don't want to have empathy for especially people if 132 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:23,720 Speaker 2: we look at them and view them as successful or 133 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 2: you know, they're a white male, like that their life 134 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 2: was just easier. And to me, what I'm starting to 135 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:32,080 Speaker 2: realize is like, no, it's just different stuff, Like this 136 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:36,320 Speaker 2: world is just full of hardships or learning experiences, whatever 137 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:38,360 Speaker 2: you want to say, for everyone. But it's a different 138 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 2: set of that kind of thing. 139 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 4: Yeah, Like we might have. 140 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:47,040 Speaker 3: In some ways, you know, historically we have it easier 141 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:51,960 Speaker 3: in a lot of ways, right, But what we what 142 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 3: we gain in historically having an easier time maybe at 143 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 3: work or you know, in the power dynamic at work, 144 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 3: we also lose out on the ability to share our 145 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 3: feelings or you know, have issues. 146 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:15,680 Speaker 4: We're not allowed to have those that side of it, right, It's. 147 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:18,520 Speaker 3: Kind of a give and take, and somewhere in the 148 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:21,520 Speaker 3: middle for everyone would be you know, nice place to be. 149 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:24,560 Speaker 4: But I think we're we are all connected in this world, 150 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 4: and there are a lot of similarities and we all 151 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 4: we all share the same need states. I think, whether 152 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:34,520 Speaker 4: it's men or women, you know, we all we want 153 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:37,080 Speaker 4: to feel safe, and we want to feel comfortable, and 154 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:40,560 Speaker 4: we want to feel socially connected to other people. There's 155 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 4: a lot of similarities, but we come at it from 156 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:46,080 Speaker 4: this thing's greating behavior. That's that's different. 157 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:49,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, men are supposed to not be soft 158 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 3: and women are supposed to not be too strong. 159 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 2: Right ufunding the balance somewhere. So, I know you have 160 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:03,640 Speaker 2: talk about group therapy as being just a really helpful tool. 161 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:05,840 Speaker 2: What was your experience in group therapy? 162 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:11,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, So I started going to therapy when I was 163 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:14,320 Speaker 3: sort of at a crossroads of my life. And I 164 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:18,200 Speaker 3: really started doing individual therapy at first, and that was 165 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 3: really to find out more about myself. And I think 166 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 3: what's great about scheduled therapy, which I am a big 167 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:29,160 Speaker 3: proponent of, and I talked to, you know, people at 168 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 3: the office about the importance of it, and I'll tell people, 169 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:35,440 Speaker 3: I'm I'm leaving for therapy. I'll be back for the 170 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 3: next meeting. And so I really started vocalizing that and 171 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 3: normalizing it. But yeah, it really started with discovering what 172 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:48,960 Speaker 3: I need and what I'm looking for out of life, 173 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 3: because so often we're so busy, we just kind of 174 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:56,600 Speaker 3: plow through life without really checking it with ourselves. I 175 00:09:56,600 --> 00:10:01,240 Speaker 3: think having therapy scheduled makes forces you to do that 176 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:05,360 Speaker 3: at a certain time every week, where you're really picking 177 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:08,480 Speaker 3: up that it's you know, you can do it on 178 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:11,600 Speaker 3: your own, but a therapist and having it scheduled, it's 179 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 3: like having a trainer for working out. You will show up, 180 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:19,080 Speaker 3: will do the work. It's like mental training. And so 181 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 3: I did that for a while, and then I really 182 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:25,000 Speaker 3: wanted to learn more about group therapy. So I'm kind 183 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:27,959 Speaker 3: of on this journey of like, Okay, what's the next 184 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:31,199 Speaker 3: work I can do. And when you think of group therapy, 185 00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 3: you typically think of group therapy as therapy for a 186 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:41,520 Speaker 3: shared experience, like someone that maybe has a spouse that's 187 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 3: an alcoholic, or someone who went through a death in 188 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:51,480 Speaker 3: the family. Recently, and that group's for that. But really 189 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 3: group therapy can be just a collection of people that 190 00:10:56,320 --> 00:11:02,040 Speaker 3: are into therapy and they meet and really the power 191 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:05,199 Speaker 3: of it is to see you know, usually those groups 192 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:08,000 Speaker 3: are like eight to twelve people and they're the same 193 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:12,160 Speaker 3: group every week. But it helps you talk about what 194 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:15,960 Speaker 3: you're going through, be comfortable with that with strangers, that's 195 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:20,000 Speaker 3: one thing, and then create more empathy for other people 196 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:23,640 Speaker 3: that are talking about what they're going through. And it 197 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:28,120 Speaker 3: helps you see how people that you don't really know 198 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 3: view you. You might know how your friends view you 199 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:34,160 Speaker 3: or people you've known for years, but it's almost a 200 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 3: sample of how the world, how you come across in 201 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:41,920 Speaker 3: the world, and that really helps you stand outside yourself 202 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:46,600 Speaker 3: and see, you know, well, people really think I'm confident, 203 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:49,800 Speaker 3: but I'm not, or I'm standoffish, but I'm really warm, 204 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:52,720 Speaker 3: and I want to project that in a different way. 205 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:57,360 Speaker 3: So it's really helpful to get a It's almost a 206 00:11:57,400 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 3: sample of like, well, how do I come across in 207 00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:01,960 Speaker 3: the world, and is that a reflection of how I 208 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:03,600 Speaker 3: want to come across in the world, and how can 209 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:06,320 Speaker 3: I change that? And then it also helps you be 210 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:09,120 Speaker 3: more empathetic to what other people are going through. Some 211 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:12,880 Speaker 3: people might be going through major trauma or tragedy, and 212 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:16,440 Speaker 3: some people might be going through a breakup or something. 213 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:18,720 Speaker 3: You know, maybe a little more minor, but it's really 214 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:21,640 Speaker 3: big and important to them. Yeah, so it helps you 215 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:24,880 Speaker 3: create that empathy for other people as well as discover 216 00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:26,240 Speaker 3: how you're viewed. 217 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:26,520 Speaker 4: In the world. 218 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:31,760 Speaker 2: Yeah. I did a group therapy experience, and I don't 219 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 2: know if you felt this, but what you were just 220 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 2: describing where people would be going through different things the 221 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 2: one thing, and I guess this goes back to us 222 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:41,720 Speaker 2: all being connected. The one thing I really noticed though, 223 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:45,840 Speaker 2: was like in the telling of the stories, the emotion 224 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:48,760 Speaker 2: behind all of the things that were happening, Like that 225 00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:52,079 Speaker 2: person might be reacting differently or their experience might have 226 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:55,760 Speaker 2: been different, but the emotions behind it, I could connect 227 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:58,000 Speaker 2: to so many of them. Like it was like I 228 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:01,079 Speaker 2: would be going through the same emotion in my very 229 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:05,400 Speaker 2: different worldly experience. It kind of proved to me like, oh, 230 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 2: we're all living in this place of like what you 231 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:10,560 Speaker 2: said about we all have these same needs. Like you know, 232 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:13,080 Speaker 2: they were just really scared and they're acting out looked 233 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:15,680 Speaker 2: a lot different than mine, but like it's really the 234 00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:16,400 Speaker 2: same thing. 235 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:18,840 Speaker 4: Yeah, totally. Yeah. 236 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 3: I think it also shows you how we have these 237 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:29,440 Speaker 3: preconceived notions, like I'm going into this group as you 238 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:33,840 Speaker 3: know whatever, I see a white yeah, middle aged white CEO, 239 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:38,320 Speaker 3: and so I'm viewed one way automatically by the rest 240 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:41,600 Speaker 3: of the group, which not might not really be who 241 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:44,880 Speaker 3: I am on the on the inside or you know, right, 242 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:48,120 Speaker 3: and so we're we all come in with our preconceived 243 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:51,320 Speaker 3: notions right off the bat of how people are based 244 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:55,360 Speaker 3: on you know, their position, or their color, their skin, 245 00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:59,880 Speaker 3: or their gender, and so it also helps break that 246 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 3: down and really to your point, really prove Wow, we 247 00:14:04,679 --> 00:14:10,080 Speaker 3: come from a lot of different backgrounds and different positions 248 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 3: and parts of growth in our life, but we all 249 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:16,600 Speaker 3: there is like this base thing that we all want 250 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:19,520 Speaker 3: right exactly, and so we are all connected. 251 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:20,680 Speaker 4: The world is all connected. 252 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I totally but I love it. 253 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 3: It really really helped me grow a lot, connect with 254 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 3: other people and then really take stock in I might 255 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 3: see myself one way, but other people see me a 256 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 3: very different way, So I need to tweak or change 257 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 3: how I come across to be really seen the way. 258 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 4: I want to be seen. 259 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:47,560 Speaker 2: Well, this is kind of the perfect transition into what 260 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 2: I wanted to talk about next. But to that point, 261 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:52,840 Speaker 2: you just made like to come across the way that 262 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:54,800 Speaker 2: you truly are and the way that you want to 263 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:58,160 Speaker 2: be seen as like to who you are authentically. So 264 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 2: I know you talk a lot about in business like 265 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:04,160 Speaker 2: the importance of staying true to the soul of the brand, 266 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:07,440 Speaker 2: But I started thinking about that just in comparison of 267 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:11,080 Speaker 2: like us as humans and how important it is for 268 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:14,280 Speaker 2: us to live an authentic life. So why do you 269 00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 2: think staying true to the soul of the brand or 270 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:21,160 Speaker 2: owning your own authenticity is so important? 271 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:23,120 Speaker 4: Well, I think. 272 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:26,800 Speaker 3: I look at well, that's kind of what I do 273 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:29,600 Speaker 3: for a living is think about brands that we work with, 274 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:34,760 Speaker 3: and I think about brands and people almost interchangeably, you know. 275 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 3: I think of a brand is what you're trying to 276 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:46,240 Speaker 3: convey to an audience to build, you know, authenticity, because 277 00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:49,560 Speaker 3: like authentic brands always perform the best, and they have 278 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:53,120 Speaker 3: a purpose, and they know what their values are and 279 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:55,560 Speaker 3: they you know, have those values written down and they 280 00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:58,600 Speaker 3: follow those values, and it starts to create an internal 281 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:01,960 Speaker 3: culture and then an external way that the world views 282 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:05,160 Speaker 3: that brand. People are really the same way and I 283 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:10,600 Speaker 3: think having your value system and defining your value system 284 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:15,520 Speaker 3: and writing down your value system makes you consistent and 285 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:17,960 Speaker 3: come across in the in the way that you want 286 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:21,400 Speaker 3: to come across and you're not changing with the wind. 287 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:24,720 Speaker 3: You know you're you're authentic to yourself, and I think 288 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:29,840 Speaker 3: you know, always being true to yourself in any situation 289 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 3: based on your value system really helps people connect with you. 290 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:36,960 Speaker 4: And I think when you when. 291 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 3: You're inconsistent, whether you're a brand that's always changing or inconsistent, 292 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:43,120 Speaker 3: you won't be successful as a brand and the same 293 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:46,080 Speaker 3: thing as a person. If you haven't done the work 294 00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:51,240 Speaker 3: to really understand your priorities and your values and what 295 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:54,200 Speaker 3: you care about in your purpose, you're going to be 296 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:59,360 Speaker 3: kind of a chameleon and inconsistent. So I think it's 297 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:04,920 Speaker 3: really to know what your unique idiosyncrasies are and what 298 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:09,480 Speaker 3: you care about and follow that path in all aspects 299 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:12,080 Speaker 3: of your life as much as you possibly can. 300 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:18,879 Speaker 2: I like to give the listeners tangible tips. So are 301 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:22,520 Speaker 2: there anything I know you mentioned like writing down your values? 302 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:26,600 Speaker 2: Are there any other tangible tips just for that If 303 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:29,600 Speaker 2: someone's listening and they're thinking, you know, I really want 304 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:33,280 Speaker 2: to start expressing myself authentically, but I don't know where 305 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:34,760 Speaker 2: to start, Like what would you say? 306 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:40,159 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think the first thing is creating, and I 307 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:44,359 Speaker 3: think companies do this as well. They have you know, 308 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:48,320 Speaker 3: like in our company, we have seven values that we 309 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 3: started the company with and the way we were going 310 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:53,960 Speaker 3: to operate, and that really helped guide who we hire. 311 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:57,639 Speaker 3: We do performance reviews off of those values, and it 312 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:01,159 Speaker 3: really helped guide the company into us certain way. And 313 00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:04,119 Speaker 3: I think so I almost did it for you know, 314 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:08,480 Speaker 3: with my partners for the company first before I really 315 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:12,320 Speaker 3: did it personally. And then I realized, oh, well, I 316 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:16,280 Speaker 3: should probably do that for myself and write down those 317 00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:20,120 Speaker 3: five to seven values that are important to me and 318 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 3: that it helps you make decisions in your life based 319 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:26,200 Speaker 3: on always falling back to those values, and those values 320 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:29,920 Speaker 3: shouldn't change over time. You have to dive into doing 321 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:35,240 Speaker 3: the work to understand those. Another tool to being really 322 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:40,480 Speaker 3: uniquely yourself an original is to really think about storytelling 323 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:44,440 Speaker 3: and writing a lot of it's writing right and writing 324 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:49,520 Speaker 3: down important stories in your life that have impacted you 325 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:52,320 Speaker 3: and why they've impacted you to be who you are 326 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:56,879 Speaker 3: and having those stories when you're trying to connect with 327 00:18:56,920 --> 00:18:59,760 Speaker 3: someone else from make a point, but really taking that 328 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:02,880 Speaker 3: time and energy to think about stories in your life 329 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:06,359 Speaker 3: and why they're important. To think about role models in 330 00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:09,160 Speaker 3: your life or mantras in your life that you want 331 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 3: to live by. To think about what what are the 332 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:18,480 Speaker 3: arts that inspire you, What are the cultural touchstones that 333 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:19,919 Speaker 3: mean a lot to you and why? 334 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 4: And I think that is a lot. 335 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 3: Of work to help define you, know who you are, 336 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:33,960 Speaker 3: drawing inspiration from your uniqueness, your values, your personal idiosyncrasies. 337 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:36,720 Speaker 3: I think that's really important, and I think storytelling is 338 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:41,639 Speaker 3: a great way to do that. I think another important 339 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:45,719 Speaker 3: thing that I always like to think about is, you know, 340 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 3: we're really in a sense in this country, we are 341 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:53,159 Speaker 3: in a we have a declining sense of belonging in 342 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:57,199 Speaker 3: the US. I think we you know, only like thirty 343 00:19:57,240 --> 00:20:00,760 Speaker 3: five percent of Americans feel a sense it's a belonging 344 00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:05,479 Speaker 3: to any community or having intimate relationships or close friends. 345 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:08,760 Speaker 3: So another thing that I think is really important is 346 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:13,200 Speaker 3: not letting relationships drop to zero. So I do this 347 00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:19,359 Speaker 3: thing where I schedule on my calendar five days a week, 348 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:22,040 Speaker 3: like a half hour to connect with. 349 00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:25,280 Speaker 4: A friend or. 350 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:29,240 Speaker 3: Relative or you know, someone in my life that I've 351 00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:33,920 Speaker 3: maybe lost contact with and do that a half hour 352 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 3: each day Monday through Friday. We'll I'll either reach out 353 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:41,520 Speaker 3: to someone or send them an article of something that 354 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 3: I know they love, Like, you know you love country music, 355 00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:49,280 Speaker 3: I read this article about it, you love Disney, you 356 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:52,800 Speaker 3: love I don't know, the Tennessee Titans. 357 00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:55,120 Speaker 4: Whatever. It could be pitching out that way. 358 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:58,320 Speaker 3: It could be a phone call, could be just shooting 359 00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:01,960 Speaker 3: them a no that you're thinking about them or remembering 360 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:04,479 Speaker 3: a time. But I do that to really not let 361 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:07,639 Speaker 3: relationships drop to zero and just sort of stoke this 362 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:12,639 Speaker 3: idea of we're not alone and we need those relationships, 363 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:16,560 Speaker 3: like that's social. We're thirsty for that social connection. 364 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:18,400 Speaker 4: We don't have enough of it right now. 365 00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:23,320 Speaker 3: So that's another tool that I employ that works pretty well. 366 00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:27,480 Speaker 3: And like we talked about therapy, doing this type of work, 367 00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:31,000 Speaker 3: whether it's writing stories about your life, whether it's connecting 368 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:34,280 Speaker 3: with friends, all that stuff. I hate to say it 369 00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:38,760 Speaker 3: because it's it's almost like if you think about, like, oh, 370 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:41,640 Speaker 3: with your partner, we're going to schedule sex, it takes 371 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:44,520 Speaker 3: like the fun out of it, you know. But I 372 00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:48,600 Speaker 3: think this is different, Like I think scheduling, scheduling the 373 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:53,080 Speaker 3: work is really critical to you putting in that time 374 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:55,880 Speaker 3: because if you don't, you're going to forget about it. 375 00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:58,639 Speaker 3: It'll drop down on your to do list and you 376 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 3: won't really be putting in the time to work on 377 00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:02,639 Speaker 3: yourself and your connections. 378 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:05,720 Speaker 4: So I think scheduling it is pretty critical. 379 00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:09,639 Speaker 2: Yeah, well to stay on that point, just really fast, 380 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:12,000 Speaker 2: the scheduled sex. When I have a co host on 381 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:14,200 Speaker 2: my Friday episodes, hes, we talk about this all the 382 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:17,280 Speaker 2: time because he is like, that sounds terrible, and I 383 00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:19,720 Speaker 2: think I'm like in my head though, and the way 384 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:23,720 Speaker 2: it's always been in my life, the intention behind it 385 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:26,320 Speaker 2: is where that's what matters, you know. So if you're 386 00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:28,920 Speaker 2: scheduling it, you're saying you matter to me, and our 387 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:32,520 Speaker 2: relationship matters, and this is an important part of our relationship. 388 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:34,679 Speaker 2: And then you can build up in whatever way that 389 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:37,040 Speaker 2: works for you. But same as what you're talking about 390 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:39,840 Speaker 2: with the work, it's almost like this communication to yourself 391 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:43,280 Speaker 2: of like you matter to me, like I matter to me, 392 00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:48,119 Speaker 2: and my healing and showing up as my authentic self 393 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:50,600 Speaker 2: is so important to me that I'm going to show 394 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:52,679 Speaker 2: up to do this work because a lot of times, 395 00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:54,600 Speaker 2: on a lot of days, I know for me at least, 396 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:56,600 Speaker 2: like I don't want to do it. You know, it's 397 00:22:56,640 --> 00:23:00,239 Speaker 2: not always easy and sometimes it can be painful, but 398 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:03,960 Speaker 2: the result is what I'm actually working for, and for me, 399 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:06,520 Speaker 2: the intention behind it to show up for myself is 400 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:07,440 Speaker 2: just so important. 401 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's I love that view on scheduling 402 00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:16,440 Speaker 3: intimacy because I yeah, I think it does put a 403 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:19,119 Speaker 3: value on it. And I think scheduling it for yourself 404 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:22,720 Speaker 3: just like when you, I don't know, maybe you're not 405 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:24,679 Speaker 3: the mood to do a podcast, but then when you 406 00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:28,240 Speaker 3: do it, because it's on the books, you always did it. 407 00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:31,400 Speaker 4: You always at time. You're never like I. 408 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:34,520 Speaker 3: Wish I didn't work out, or I wish I didn't right, 409 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:37,359 Speaker 3: I wish you know, I'm glad I didn't cancel dinner 410 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:41,080 Speaker 3: because I connected with friends, even though I wanted to 411 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:41,600 Speaker 3: cancel it. 412 00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:44,520 Speaker 4: You always feel better on the other side. But yeah, 413 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:46,439 Speaker 4: you got to you gotta work it. 414 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:50,880 Speaker 3: You gotta make it authority by putting it into the routine, 415 00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:52,440 Speaker 3: and it's hard to you. 416 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:56,480 Speaker 2: Know, yeah, exactly. Well, your best selling book is called 417 00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:59,320 Speaker 2: The Soulful Art of Persuasion, So I want to know 418 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 2: the seek grits to the art of persuasion. So can 419 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:07,480 Speaker 2: you tell us the importance of persuasion to produce successful 420 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:11,200 Speaker 2: creative work, building a business and in your personal life. 421 00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:12,480 Speaker 4: Yeah. 422 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:15,120 Speaker 3: So, I think it's all kind of the same principles, 423 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:21,240 Speaker 3: And really it's really based around four principles and that 424 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,080 Speaker 3: I've found successful and I hope other people do. But 425 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:28,840 Speaker 3: the first one is really everything we've been talking about, 426 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:34,560 Speaker 3: which is really being original and you know, being yourself 427 00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:38,639 Speaker 3: everyone else has taken. Don't be afraid to show up 428 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:41,320 Speaker 3: always as yourself, and that's sort of like step one, 429 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:45,280 Speaker 3: and that also goes to brands, it goes to people. 430 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:49,080 Speaker 3: It's that authenticity is kind of the building blocks, and 431 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:52,600 Speaker 3: step one really understanding who you are and doing the 432 00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:58,720 Speaker 3: work to discover that. The second principle of persuasion is 433 00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:02,080 Speaker 3: really about being a generous person, so trying to think 434 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:06,240 Speaker 3: about giving something away in every interaction. 435 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:07,679 Speaker 4: So whatever that means. 436 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:12,040 Speaker 3: It could be saying yes to someone who wants you 437 00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:13,200 Speaker 3: to help mentor them. 438 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:17,760 Speaker 4: It could be you know, helping someone with advice. 439 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:22,320 Speaker 3: But it's carving out time to be generous, to practice 440 00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:27,360 Speaker 3: being positive, to having sort of a generous and grateful spirit. 441 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:32,880 Speaker 4: And I think that is useful for people at work. 442 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:35,000 Speaker 3: It's for you useful in your personal life, and it's 443 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:38,040 Speaker 3: useful for you know, companies that you're growing, But I 444 00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:41,800 Speaker 3: think trying to think about a generous spirit. The third 445 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:46,600 Speaker 3: is about being empathetic, and it's this basic principle that. 446 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:49,320 Speaker 4: We all share. 447 00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:52,560 Speaker 3: It's kind of what you started talking about the beginning, 448 00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 3: that we're all connected, that we all share ninety nine 449 00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:58,200 Speaker 3: zero point nine percent of the same DNA. 450 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:00,280 Speaker 4: So each one of us is. 451 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:04,359 Speaker 3: Unique and different, but we all have so much that 452 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:08,000 Speaker 3: is the same in how we are as humans. And 453 00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:12,480 Speaker 3: so this empathetic idea is starting with that belief and 454 00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:17,560 Speaker 3: seeing commonalities and not differences and really understanding, okay, we 455 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:19,399 Speaker 3: are kind of all the same. And when you start 456 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:24,399 Speaker 3: with that basic precept, you view life different, and you 457 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:28,199 Speaker 3: view interactions different. You view building a company different, or 458 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:33,359 Speaker 3: attracting customers as different, and so thinking about that also 459 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:37,359 Speaker 3: helps you develop a natural curiosity about others. It helps 460 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:41,760 Speaker 3: you to listen understand what your audience or your consumer 461 00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:46,080 Speaker 3: might care about on a deeper level. And so empathy 462 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:49,399 Speaker 3: is kind of the other one. And then the final 463 00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:53,160 Speaker 3: principle is really this idea about being soulful, and that's 464 00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:58,679 Speaker 3: about personally, it's about always hunting out new skills, so 465 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:05,359 Speaker 3: thinking about developing passions that you care about. I have 466 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 3: this idea called skill hunting, which every couple of years, 467 00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:13,199 Speaker 3: focusing on something that you've always wanted to learn but 468 00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:16,439 Speaker 3: you never put the time into, whether it's I don't know, 469 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:20,840 Speaker 3: playing guitar, chess or cooking or whatever it might be, 470 00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:27,119 Speaker 3: trying to spend a few year period developing of proficiency 471 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:29,359 Speaker 3: and something that you always wanted to learn. 472 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:30,920 Speaker 4: It's kind of this idea of. 473 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:37,439 Speaker 3: Like you're never your education is never complete, and so 474 00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:41,920 Speaker 3: thinking about how to be more skillful and more areas 475 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:42,800 Speaker 3: of your life. 476 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:43,440 Speaker 4: And then. 477 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:48,040 Speaker 3: That helps for brands to always think about what else 478 00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:50,680 Speaker 3: they can be building or what else they could be offering. 479 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:54,400 Speaker 4: And then for people it's just adding more skills. 480 00:27:54,440 --> 00:28:00,159 Speaker 3: And whether it's you know, from you know, from me 481 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:03,879 Speaker 3: going from therapy to group therapy to now thinking about 482 00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:07,320 Speaker 3: we talked about it at the beginning, like contemplative care 483 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:12,639 Speaker 3: or understanding death. That's that's my personal journey of like 484 00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:16,360 Speaker 3: always developing and going deeper into myself to learn more. 485 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:20,040 Speaker 4: Skills and then being being inspirational, like. 486 00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:23,240 Speaker 3: What can you offer based on skills that you have 487 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:28,640 Speaker 3: or that you've built without sounding too cliche, to make 488 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:31,720 Speaker 3: the world a little bit better of a place. Whether 489 00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:35,000 Speaker 3: it's like some charitable thing, it's some giving back. 490 00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:36,360 Speaker 4: If you're. 491 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:42,840 Speaker 3: An accountant, maybe you're doing like teaching financial literacy once 492 00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:47,360 Speaker 3: a month to like, you know, underserved communities. It could 493 00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:49,280 Speaker 3: be whatever skill you have, you can always think of 494 00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:52,480 Speaker 3: a way to apply it to give back in some way. 495 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:57,240 Speaker 4: So that's sort of my my, my. 496 00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:02,160 Speaker 3: My personal kind of those four principles I think build 497 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,320 Speaker 3: successful people and successful careers. 498 00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:08,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I'm going to put the link to that 499 00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:10,400 Speaker 2: book in the description of this podcast for you guys. 500 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:14,080 Speaker 2: We also mentioned at the beginning of our talk that 501 00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:17,479 Speaker 2: you also have a podcast called Soul and Science. So 502 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:21,040 Speaker 2: what would listeners find when they listen to that podcast. 503 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:25,640 Speaker 3: So, so in Science is really marketing podcast, and I 504 00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:31,200 Speaker 3: talk with the leading marketers in the world of from 505 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:36,360 Speaker 3: you know, New Balance to Shakeshack to Girl Scouts of America. 506 00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:39,120 Speaker 3: But really it's it's people that are leading those brands 507 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:43,120 Speaker 3: and how they build those brands and what you know, 508 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,760 Speaker 3: it's their personal stories and then how they think about 509 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:48,640 Speaker 3: building the brand that they're working on and do they 510 00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:53,160 Speaker 3: use their you know, are they more soul, more about 511 00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:55,400 Speaker 3: the heart of building that brand, or are they more 512 00:29:55,480 --> 00:30:00,600 Speaker 3: like science, more building it with data and insights and 513 00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:04,360 Speaker 3: customer research. So it's really a marketing podcast where we 514 00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:07,360 Speaker 3: get into, you know, how the best brands in the 515 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:08,160 Speaker 3: world are built. 516 00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:11,560 Speaker 2: That's interesting. What do you do you find across the 517 00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:14,480 Speaker 2: board that it's a mix of both soul and science. 518 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:17,160 Speaker 2: Are some companies way more soul and some are way 519 00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:17,880 Speaker 2: more science? 520 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:22,400 Speaker 3: You know, it's it's always a mix, and it's always 521 00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:27,520 Speaker 3: kind of based on the person who's leading that marketing 522 00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:30,680 Speaker 3: or that brand, but it's always some kind of mix. 523 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:34,080 Speaker 3: But everyone has a slightly tweaked answer. And I also 524 00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:39,720 Speaker 3: find that younger brands that are less developed, they. 525 00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:40,440 Speaker 4: Might not have. 526 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:44,840 Speaker 3: Shareholders, they might not be listed on the stock market, 527 00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:49,600 Speaker 3: for example. They're more gut instinctual, like I'm going to 528 00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:51,040 Speaker 3: follow what I think is right. 529 00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:55,479 Speaker 4: And brands that have more stakeholders are bigger and they 530 00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:58,960 Speaker 4: have boards to report to, they're much more I got 531 00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:00,160 Speaker 4: to back everything up. 532 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:03,680 Speaker 2: With right, because they have to be yeah. 533 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:06,160 Speaker 3: And they have to focus on you know, quarter to 534 00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:12,160 Speaker 3: quarter growth, right, because you know, we're so tethered to 535 00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:17,120 Speaker 3: the stock market in America, like those brands like deliver Value. 536 00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:20,720 Speaker 4: Yeah, growth for investors. 537 00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:23,800 Speaker 2: So interesting. Well, I'll put the links for that in 538 00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:26,120 Speaker 2: the description of this podcast as well. Jason, where else 539 00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:27,240 Speaker 2: can people find you? 540 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:33,120 Speaker 3: Our company is uh Mechanism dot com Mechanisms with a K, 541 00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:38,640 Speaker 3: and you can find me on the socials at Jason 542 00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:41,360 Speaker 3: Underscore Harris in most most places. 543 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:44,280 Speaker 2: Awesome, Well, thank you so much for being here. I 544 00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:46,640 Speaker 2: learned a lot today and this was one of those 545 00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:49,080 Speaker 2: situations where I'm tired. We started the podcast and we 546 00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:51,760 Speaker 2: were both like, we're tired today. Now I'm so glad 547 00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:53,880 Speaker 2: we did this. See, it was awesome. 548 00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:56,680 Speaker 4: I think we have a lot of the same share 549 00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:57,920 Speaker 4: a lot of the same philosophies. 550 00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:00,600 Speaker 2: I agree. I agree with the Thanks for being here, 551 00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:02,080 Speaker 2: and thanks so much for you guys listening. 552 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:05,560 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Velvet's Edge podcast with Kelly Henderson, 553 00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,240 Speaker 1: where we believe everyone has a little velvet and a 554 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:12,400 Speaker 1: little edge. Subscribe for more conversations on life, style, beauty, 555 00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:18,720 Speaker 1: and relationships. Search Velvet's Edge wherever you get your podcasts.