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Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Psychology of Your Twenties,

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Speaker 1: the podcast where we talk through some of the big

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Speaker 1: life changes and transitions of our twenties and what they

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Speaker 1: mean for our psychology.

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Speaker 2: Hello everybody, Welcome back to the show. Welcome back to

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Speaker 2: the podcast, new listeners, old listeners. Wherever you are in

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Speaker 2: the world, it is so great to have you here,

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Speaker 2: back for another episode as we, of course break down

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Speaker 2: the psychology of our twenties. When we talk about health,

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Speaker 2: I think our first thought is physical health. You know,

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Speaker 2: what food we consume, what exercise we do, how our

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Speaker 2: body feels, what our doctor might say. Then we might

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Speaker 2: think about mental health, psychologically, emotionally, where do we sit,

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Speaker 2: social health, financial health, The list goes on. But rarely

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Speaker 2: do we prioritize our spiritual health when in fact, spiritual

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Speaker 2: health health is really linked to all these other pillars

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Speaker 2: of our well being. It might not sound as scientific

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Speaker 2: or real as these other dimensions of our health. I

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Speaker 2: think based on what a lot of society has taught

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Speaker 2: us over the years, but it's really valuable to have

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Speaker 2: something you believe in, especially in your twenties as you're

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Speaker 2: blooming and blossoming into this new person. You have to

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Speaker 2: have something that you have faith in, a sense of meaning,

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Speaker 2: a value system in order to have a fulfilled life.

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Speaker 2: And it's definitely something that I've begun prioritizing more. Even

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Speaker 2: though I'm not a religious person anymore. I think that

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Speaker 2: life is just a lot more enjoyable and our sense

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Speaker 2: of purpose is a lot more profound when you can

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Speaker 2: identify a connection between yourself and the world and what

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Speaker 2: you're here for. So I really want to talk about

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Speaker 2: this today and bring the spirituality and the science and

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Speaker 2: the mental health together to kind of understand how we

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Speaker 2: engaged spiritual life and a belief system is so special

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Speaker 2: in our twentyes. And of course I had to bring

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Speaker 2: on an incredible guest, doctor Lisa Miller. She is a

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Speaker 2: professor at Columbia University, at clinical psychologist and a scientist,

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Speaker 2: and she focuses on the intersection between spiritual health and

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Speaker 2: our wellbeing. Lisa, thank you so much for joining us.

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Speaker 3: I'm so happy to be here, and I just really

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Speaker 3: love the way you get right down to what truly matters.

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Speaker 3: These in her twenties, we lay the groundwork for the

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Speaker 3: rest of our lives, and you know it deserves really

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Speaker 3: being truthful and getting down to it. So thank you.

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Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, I really appreciate that. Yet we're not missing

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Speaker 2: around you. I've kind of already given you a little introduction.

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Speaker 2: Do you want to talk more about your path to

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Speaker 2: where you are now, what you do, who you are

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Speaker 2: as a person.

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Speaker 3: Sure. So I'm a clinical scientist. I'm a professor at

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Speaker 3: Columbia University of twenty five years, and I have over

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Speaker 3: these years published probably one hundred hundred and fifty peer

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Speaker 3: review scientific articles on spirituality, who we really are spiritually

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Speaker 3: and the relationship between our own personal spirituality and our

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Speaker 3: bigger lives. Our health, our wellness, our recovery, our strength

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Speaker 3: and character are thriving. But I'll also share with you. You know,

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Speaker 3: when I talk about how I got here, when I

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Speaker 3: was in my twenties, I was on a spiritual hunt.

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Speaker 3: I mean I was really on a quest in my twenties,

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Speaker 3: and it was not easy. So if you really want

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Speaker 3: to know how I got here to being, you know,

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Speaker 3: a lifelong scientist and someone who's devoted themselves to this work,

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Speaker 3: it starts in my twenties. You know, I was nineteen

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Speaker 3: years old, twenty years old starting out, and I really

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Speaker 3: started to wonder, you know, what the purpose of life

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Speaker 3: really was. And this was no joke. You know, I'd

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Speaker 3: always been kind of a thoughtful person, but I really

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Speaker 3: started to wonder. It sort of was just tug from within,

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Speaker 3: and that tug became about one hundred hymns more fierce

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Speaker 3: when there was a bump in my life. And people

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Speaker 3: have different bumps, it doesn't matter it turns out what

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Speaker 3: the bump might be. But for me, my true love,

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Speaker 3: the first time I'd ever ever been in love, completely

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Speaker 3: broke my heart. I mean, so, here was this guy

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Speaker 3: I'd fallen in love for the first time, and I

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Speaker 3: thought he was perfect. You know, he was, in my eyes,

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Speaker 3: more handsome than a Greek sculpture. He was so interesting,

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Speaker 3: he was you know, I was mesmerized. And he said,

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Speaker 3: you know what, I really think. I'm falling in love

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Speaker 3: with you. And I said, you love me. He's like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: I love you. And that was after three months and

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Speaker 3: I've found the person I'm going to marry. And then yeah,

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Speaker 3: after he broke up with me, boom, five months and

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Speaker 3: I was shocked. It didn't make sense, Like I said,

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Speaker 3: but you said you love me, He's like, no, I did,

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Speaker 3: and I said, but now you don't love me, and

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Speaker 3: he's like, no, not now. I'm like, well you did then,

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Speaker 3: but you don't now. How can that be? He's like,

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Speaker 3: well there was a change. And I thought, well, if

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Speaker 3: you can change, you know, does love really matter? Is

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Speaker 3: love real? I mean, if you can love me, truly

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Speaker 3: love me and then truly not love me? Is love real?

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Speaker 3: And ever more like? I started to think, well, wait

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Speaker 3: a minute, is you know, are what is our human

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Speaker 3: condition that we can so called fall out of love?

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Speaker 3: Or is there any permanent or stability to us? You know,

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Speaker 3: what can you really bank on? Can you trust people

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Speaker 3: in life? And this sent me on a huge spiral

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Speaker 3: about what is the nature of life? What is real?

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Speaker 3: Are humans real? Is love real? And these were not

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Speaker 3: questions that were somehow a symptom of pathology. These were genuine,

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Speaker 3: real questions. So what do you think I did? I

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Speaker 3: went to a therapist and I went first therapist and

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Speaker 3: I said, listen, you know I have really been on

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Speaker 3: a downward spiral since John broke up with me. I

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Speaker 3: don't know if love's real. I don't know if we

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Speaker 3: can really count on each other. Do we just change overnight?

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Speaker 3: Are we so stable? Or real, and I really wonder,

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Speaker 3: you know, I used to really believe in God or

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Speaker 3: to higher power, whatever one's word might be, the universe,

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Speaker 3: and now I don't know how much I can really

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Speaker 3: count even on that is God real? It's the universe

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Speaker 3: in the sense of being loving and there for us

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Speaker 3: personally real. And the therapist looked at my story and said,

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Speaker 3: so you don't know if God's really there for you?

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Speaker 3: And I said, yeah, I don't know if God's real.

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Speaker 3: And she said, well, was your father there for you

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Speaker 3: when you were little? And I'm like, wait a minute, No,

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Speaker 3: I don't mean that my father isn't there for me.

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Speaker 3: I mean God is there. And she could only tell

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Speaker 3: that one story that we're nothing more than the paths

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Speaker 3: of our childhood. So you know, I thought this isn't

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Speaker 3: for me, and I went fired her, which she should do.

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Speaker 3: Should always fire a therapist if it's not right. Then

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Speaker 3: I went to a new therapist and I told the

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Speaker 3: same story, and she's said, okay, so you don't know

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Speaker 3: if God's there for you. Do you think you have

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Speaker 3: low self esteem? Do you think that you have sort

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Speaker 3: of negative self talk? And I said no, I'm fine

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Speaker 3: with myself. I don't know if God's real right, And

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Speaker 3: this turned out to be what I have now come

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Speaker 3: decades later to know is the most important work that

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Speaker 3: we do, which is figure out the spiritual reality and

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Speaker 3: who we are in this spiritual reality. Mental health didn't

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Speaker 3: know that, Psychologists, therapists didn't know that, college counselors didn't

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Speaker 3: know that. They thought that this big quest was actually

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Speaker 3: just a symptom of depression. But now we know, you know,

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Speaker 3: hundreds of pure view scientific articles later, that this is

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Speaker 3: not just you know, a sidebar of depression. This is

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Speaker 3: literally how we are built. We are hardwired our brain,

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Speaker 3: our genes to grow into our twenties and need to quest,

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Speaker 3: and we're even better at it in our twenties.

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Speaker 2: I'm listening to that story and just being like, wow,

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Speaker 2: can completely relate. Have seen this happen so many times,

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Speaker 2: have seen it happen in myself, and the listeners of

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Speaker 2: the show will know. A couple months ago, I went

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Speaker 2: through an incredibly similar experience where I was like, Okay,

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Speaker 2: what's the meaning of life? What happens after we die?

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Speaker 2: How do you go on? Knowing that it's finite? YadA

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Speaker 2: YadA YadA, and eth essential crisis and so I went

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Speaker 2: to a therapist and she asked me if I had

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Speaker 2: watched any scary movies as of Racince. So it's so funny, right,

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Speaker 2: And then they were like, oh, we'll just up your

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Speaker 2: antidepressants as a way to combat this. And I think

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Speaker 2: it was kind of like the first line of defense.

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Speaker 2: I accepted it. And then now I've gotten to a

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Speaker 2: place much like you have, where it's like, actually, this

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Speaker 2: is an upending question. If I don't answer it now,

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Speaker 2: I'll have to answer it eventually, I'll have to answer

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Speaker 2: it in three years time, in my thirties, in my forties,

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Speaker 2: and my mom said something to me. She was like,

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Speaker 2: this is something that you're going to continue to struggle

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Speaker 2: with until you have a belief system that you can

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Speaker 2: rely on, not one that any institution or a therapist

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Speaker 2: has told you.

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Speaker 3: And you gave chills because you are so deep and

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Speaker 3: so wise. And here I am with tears in my

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Speaker 3: eyes because you knew the truth that this was a

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Speaker 3: very real, very profound it's a sacred quest, and I

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Speaker 3: am deep lived that you knew exactly what it was.

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Speaker 3: You didn't let a so called expert tell you that

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Speaker 3: your experience was somehow anything other than profound thank you.

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Speaker 2: And it's hard, you know, because when you have such

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Speaker 2: a scientific and a psychological perspective, that is where you

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Speaker 2: look first. And I think people might be listening to

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Speaker 2: this being like where does God come in here? You know,

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Speaker 2: we're talking about God, We're talking about Allah. Maybe these

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Speaker 2: big figures. One of the biggest questions, and I think

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Speaker 2: conundrums people have when they think about spirituality is does

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Speaker 2: that mean I have to be religious? So what in

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Speaker 2: your mind is the difference between spirituality and religion? Can

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Speaker 2: you have like a non denominational quest.

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Speaker 3: What you just shared was a deeply profound spiritual quest

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Speaker 3: that is actually hardwired in every single one of us.

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Speaker 3: So your journey reveals needing to answer the profound questions,

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Speaker 3: an existential crisis, as you put it, the very nature

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Speaker 3: of our existence. This is in our birthright. And we

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Speaker 3: now have a very good science of twenty years that says,

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Speaker 3: just as we're physical, emotional, cognitive beings, we are all

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Speaker 3: spiritual beings. And we even have found the circuits in

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Speaker 3: the brain using MRI studies that are the spiritual circuits.

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Speaker 3: And it turns out that every single person on earth,

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Speaker 3: every seven point two billion people on Earth all have

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Speaker 3: the same spiritual circuits. Spirituality is inborn, it's innate, and

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Speaker 3: we know this ever more through the lens of a

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Speaker 3: twin study. We look at twins race together and twins

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Speaker 3: raced apart, and we can determine whether any human capacity

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Speaker 3: is inborn or environmentally formed. And spirituality is innate. Religion,

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Speaker 3: whether we are Catholic, Hindu, Muslim, Jewish, Jane, whatever our

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Speaker 3: tradition may be right, religion is not inborn. Religion is

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Speaker 3: environmentally transmitted. So the texts and the ceremonies and the

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Speaker 3: teachings are a gift of the environment. But spirituality is

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Speaker 3: a deep, inborn human capacity, and because it's inborn, it

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Speaker 3: has natural phases of development, including the most precious phase,

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Speaker 3: which is in our twenties. We become independent spiritual beings

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Speaker 3: on our own terms, on our own inner heart. We

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Speaker 3: need to figure out what's true and not true, the

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Speaker 3: inner compass of spiritual reality, and.

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Speaker 2: What does that feel like when you kind of come

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Speaker 2: to that point, whatever religion or non religion or agnostic

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Speaker 2: atheist environment you've been raised in, does it always look

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Speaker 2: like a spiritual crisis or does it look like an awakening?

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Speaker 3: Well, your question is very beautiful because most people at

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Speaker 3: some point have some type of struggle or crisis, the

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Speaker 3: testing of everything they've been taught or told against the

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Speaker 3: deep knowing of their own inner part. You know, what

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Speaker 3: is the resonance. And so whether it is at twenty

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Speaker 3: two or twenty nine, you know, somewhere in the twenties,

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Speaker 3: there is wait a minute, everything you ever told me,

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Speaker 3: you know, pastor priest of mind, Rabbi, grandma and grandpa, mom, dad,

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Speaker 3: I need to know it as true against my own

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Speaker 3: inner compass. That's called spiritual emergence, and it is it

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Speaker 3: is a mark of entering into adulthood. It is an

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Speaker 3: incredibly is the cornerstone of adulthood. So that is absolutely

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Speaker 3: essential to emerging as our own person in the world.

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Speaker 3: But you're also raising another equally beautiful and important point,

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Speaker 3: which is sometimes, you know, in addition to that, someone

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Speaker 3: who's been on a quest, someone who struggled, or someone

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Speaker 3: who will someday struggle, also may have moments of extraordinary awakening.

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Speaker 3: You know, suddenly you might have a dream, or you

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Speaker 3: could have a mystical experience or a synchronicity when two

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Speaker 3: events are way too unprobabilistic to have just happened by chance.

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Speaker 3: They go together deeply, and that type of spiritual experience

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Speaker 3: in the world is a gift, that is a way

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Speaker 3: of the universe who I call God, your higher power,

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Speaker 3: the force of life, saying you are never alone, you

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Speaker 3: are guided, you are loved, and you are held And.

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Speaker 2: It's so beautiful. The way that you talk about it

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Speaker 2: is like it doesn't need to be in a box.

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Speaker 2: There is no one right answer for what is real.

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Speaker 2: It's what calls you to see a higher purpose and

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Speaker 2: a higher meaning whatever that comes to you as And

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Speaker 2: it's a highly individual experience, which I think is what

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Speaker 2: sometimes can frustrate people. It's like, well, I just want

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Speaker 2: to know the answer. I just want to know what's

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Speaker 2: real and what is the one truth. And I think

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Speaker 2: the thing about spirituality is it's not about having the

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Speaker 2: one answer. It's about having the structure and the belief system,

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Speaker 2: the same way you believe in so many other things.

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Speaker 2: You believe that you are alive, you believe that you

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Speaker 2: have a purpose, you believe that you are capable of

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Speaker 2: being loved. It's like you believe that there is something more.

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Speaker 2: What have you seen in your studies when people aren't

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Speaker 2: able to find that belief, or perhaps they continue to

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Speaker 2: suppress their need for something more.

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Speaker 3: You put it so beautifully, because spirituality is not a theory, right,

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Speaker 3: It is our ability to perceive into the deeper nature

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Speaker 3: of life. Its spirituality is a seat of awareness. And

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Speaker 3: so what you're describing is really it's almost like a

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Speaker 3: sacred operating manual. How do I look into the world?

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Speaker 3: What is my stance? And that is a deeply personal

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Speaker 3: journey to arrive into our own dialogue with the universe.

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Speaker 3: And I can share with you that when we do

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Speaker 3: that work, we are profoundly protected against addiction, against depression,

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Speaker 3: against some forms even of harm or suicide. There's nothing

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Speaker 3: more protective against this real sort of global epidemic of

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Speaker 3: the diseases of despair in twenty year olds. Nothing is

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Speaker 3: more profoundly protective as our deep spiritual seat of awareness.

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Speaker 3: So again, it may or may not be through one's

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Speaker 3: religion that one finds that with that deep personal sense

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Speaker 3: of quest to have our bearings in life? What is

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Speaker 3: life showing me? Now? What is my higher power asking

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Speaker 3: or revealing to me? Now? What does that synchronicity mean?

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Speaker 3: Was that a sacred dream. Was that a mystical experience,

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Speaker 3: and knowing our spiritual experience to be true, that is real.

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Speaker 3: Know it's true, take it as extremely important, reflect on it,

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Speaker 3: and then act on it. So there's no way of

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Speaker 3: knowing that is as strong and sure and helps us

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Speaker 3: along as much as our spiritual way. I mean, actually,

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Speaker 3: could we do a brief ninety second practice where people

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Speaker 3: have a chance to engage their spiritual weariness?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, we love anything practical on the show.

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Speaker 3: Please beautiful, okay, beautiful. So I'm going to invite you to,

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Speaker 3: just as a ninety second practice, clear out your inner space,

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Speaker 3: close your eyes, an invitation if you wish to close

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Speaker 3: your eyes and take five big beautiful breaths to open

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Speaker 3: up your inner chamber. And in your inner chamber, I

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Speaker 3: invite you to set before you at table. This is

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Speaker 3: your table. Into your table. You may invite anyone living

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Speaker 3: or deceased who truly has your best interest in mind.

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Speaker 3: Anyone living or deceased too, truly has your best interest

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Speaker 3: in mind, And with them all sitting there, ask them

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Speaker 3: if they love you. And now you may invite your

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Speaker 3: higher self, the part of you that is so much

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Speaker 3: more than anything you might have done or not done

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Speaker 3: anything that you might have or not have your true

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Speaker 3: eternal higher self, and ask you if you love you.

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Speaker 3: And now finally you may invite your higher power, however

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Speaker 3: you know, whatever word is yours, your higher power, and

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Speaker 3: ask if they love you. And now, with all of

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Speaker 3: those people sitting there right now, what do they need

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Speaker 3: to tell you? Now? What do you need to know?

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Speaker 3: What do they need to share right now? I?

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Speaker 2: Wow, I feel very tingling. It's quite a beautiful exercise.

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Speaker 2: Have you seen people like come out of that and

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Speaker 2: just be like I have a complete new truth, Like

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Speaker 2: I completely have rethought how I think about myself.

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Speaker 3: I've seen people deeply moved and awaken because they realize, yes,

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Speaker 3: you are spiritual. This is you. You are spiritual, and

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Speaker 3: no one can ever take this away from you.

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Speaker 2: Wow, it was so interesting when you were thinking about

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Speaker 2: the table. I also feel like I was thinking about

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Speaker 2: this big family dinner table and it wasn't just people,

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Speaker 2: but it was like pets as well. I don't know

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Speaker 2: why I was like, oh yeah, and there's my childhood

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Speaker 2: dog and there's my current dog, and they're you know,

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Speaker 2: sitting at this table. I don't know why. I was

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Speaker 2: just like, oh, of course, people.

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Speaker 3: I want to say, so I feel that way about

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Speaker 3: my dog. I love my dog, and I feel there

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Speaker 3: we're all souls, that our dogs are souls, and we're

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Speaker 3: here together.

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Speaker 2: I know. It's interesting how like that thought exercise gives

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Speaker 2: you a new perspective on what to you, like constitutes

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Speaker 2: a soul and what to constitutes love and how that's reflected.

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Speaker 2: It's a beautiful exercise.

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Speaker 3: So at my table, it's not always the same people

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Speaker 3: every time, right. And what's nice about this practice is

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Speaker 3: that we can bring to counsel. This is your counsel, right,

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Speaker 3: what is on our heart at any given moment. So

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Speaker 3: if someone is really you know, I felt very unkind

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Speaker 3: to me, or is not it was, or has betrayed

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Speaker 3: me or working against me, I can bring that experience

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Speaker 3: and even that person in my mind to counsel.

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Speaker 2: So for example, if you're even if you've got some

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Speaker 2: huge decision, perhaps after a breakup, or you're you know,

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Speaker 2: at a crossroads in terms of your career, or some

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Speaker 2: tragedy has happened, it is almost like you've got this

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Speaker 2: perfect panel of everyone who represents love and joy and

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Speaker 2: care and empathy to you, who you can ask in

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Speaker 2: your own mind without actually needing them. There is that

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Speaker 2: kind of the premise as.

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Speaker 3: Well, Yes, beautifully put exactly there. This panel is always

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Speaker 3: there for you. Oh yeah, and who shows up may

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Speaker 3: change that you can answer them what is on your heart.

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Speaker 2: And that's like one exercise I think that gets us

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Speaker 2: in touch with a sense of spirituality, even if you

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Speaker 2: don't think you have it, even if you know you

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Speaker 2: have strange feelings about it that you've been conditioned to think.

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Speaker 2: How else do we really begin to build out our

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Speaker 2: spiritual core in a similar way. I feel like that's

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Speaker 2: a great exercise for being like, Okay, I've recognized that

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Speaker 2: at my core I do have a deep belief and

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Speaker 2: a deep intrinsic sense of being present, being here, being loved.

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Speaker 2: How do we make sure that carries with us in

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Speaker 2: other parts of our life and begin to build like

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Speaker 2: those pillars of what do I believe in?

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Speaker 3: So that's a very beautiful question because we can have

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Speaker 3: a moment of breakthrough. It can be through a practice

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Speaker 3: like we just shared here the Hosting Council, or it

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Speaker 3: could come spontaneously. We could be on a hike and

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Speaker 3: see the sun on the lake and it's just so

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Speaker 3: breathtakingly beautiful that we feel a sense of oneness, we

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Speaker 3: feel a presence of God or the higher power of

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Speaker 3: the universe. You know, we can have moments of awakening.

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Speaker 3: But the question is how to really integrate spirituality into

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Speaker 3: our our lives, how to really build what you were

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Speaker 3: talking about earlier, which is a sacred operating manual, a

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Speaker 3: way of being in the world and understanding of how

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Speaker 3: to engage day in and day out with the sacred

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Speaker 3: presence or the universe. And that journey is again, it

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Speaker 3: doesn't happen in two days. It's really developed in our

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Speaker 3: twenties if we give it the care and the love

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Speaker 3: and the attention and the time. But we're never ever

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Speaker 3: as good at it as we are in our twenties.

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Speaker 3: So you have a gift right now. You are better

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Speaker 3: in your twenties than in your forties, fifties, or sixties

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Speaker 3: at being basically spiritual seekers. Knowing in the heart what

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Speaker 3: is true, knowing what's fake in hypocrisy, hungering for what

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Speaker 3: is genuine and transcendent, and not wanting something that is

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Speaker 3: unworthy or shallow. You are built to be exquisite spiritual seekers,

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Speaker 3: So there's no time like our twenties. We're as good

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Speaker 3: as building this deep stance in living, which means, you know,

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Speaker 3: we can't control things in life, and the world's getting

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Speaker 3: more complex. We can't control the environment, we can't control

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Speaker 3: who takes office all this, but we certainly can control

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Speaker 3: a deep stance of spiritual quest. What is life showing

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Speaker 3: me now? What is life revealing to me now? Not

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Speaker 3: why is this happening to me? But why is this

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Speaker 3: happening for me? Start with the premise that your life

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Speaker 3: is an incredible spiritual adventure and everything is a porthole

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Speaker 3: to incredible expansion and growth. So nothing is a bummer.

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Speaker 3: Everything is going to make you more, not less, even

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Speaker 3: if it's hurt and it's not what we want. It

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Speaker 3: doesn't mean there's not bad people, and there's plenty of

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Speaker 3: bad people, but it's not It doesn't matter if we

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Speaker 3: wanted it or not wanted it. It's all part of

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Speaker 3: the spiritual path and it'll all make us deeper and

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Speaker 3: more profound. So nothing in your life is wasted, nothing

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Speaker 3: in your life is off the spiritual path. Everything is

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Speaker 3: going in the end to make you more, not less.

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Speaker 3: That's the first point. The second thing is people are like, Okay,

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Speaker 3: well how do I do this? And there's a lot

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Speaker 3: of people going out right now and they go and

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Speaker 3: retreats there just maybe they'll try ayahuasca, they'll have a breakthrough, okay.

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Speaker 3: And the question is, well, okay, there's a breakthrough, but

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Speaker 3: what am I going to do next? And we don't

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Speaker 3: want to turn around and go touch the stone two

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Speaker 3: weeks later. You can't do ayahuasca every two weeks, right,

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Speaker 3: You can't live a life that way. So how do

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Speaker 3: you integrate spiritual breakthrough? Whether it's through mystical experience or

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Speaker 3: ayahuasca or prayer, or you've meditated, or you've seen nature.

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Speaker 3: And there's four pieces, there's four ingredients. May I get

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Speaker 3: into it?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely? Yes? Please, yes, please.

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Speaker 3: So the way I think of it as four p's,

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Speaker 3: there is a way to remember it a practice of transcendence,

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Speaker 3: you know, whether it's some form of breath work or

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Speaker 3: prayer or meditation or being in nature, some way of

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Speaker 3: getting back to that deep sense that you saw when

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Speaker 3: you saw light upon the ocean, when you had a

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Speaker 3: mystical dream, when you held your counsel. Practice Number two

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Speaker 3: is your people. So you've created here this beautiful international

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Speaker 3: community You've created people right, a place to go to

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Speaker 3: and share spiritual life so that we're not added alone.

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Speaker 3: And the freedom and the authority to use our spiritual

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Speaker 3: voice when we connect with one another. And I want

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Speaker 3: to know you in the deepest way, and I'm interested

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Speaker 3: in your spiritual voice, so our practice, our people. The

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Speaker 3: third is the path, and that's where you started today,

430
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 3: which is a way of understanding the biggest existential questions

431
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:46,240
Speaker 3: in life. How do I walk this earth? And I

432
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:48,560
Speaker 3: don't mean, you know, am I going to become a

433
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:53,040
Speaker 3: teacher or a banker or an entertainer? I mean as

434
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:55,320
Speaker 3: a soul on earth? How do I walk this earth?

435
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:59,080
Speaker 3: And then finally, this is something you said in our

436
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:03,040
Speaker 3: first two minutes. Yeah, there are purpose, my ultimate purpose

437
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:07,560
Speaker 3: on earth. So you're practice, your people, your past, and

438
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:12,360
Speaker 3: your purpose. That's a fully integrated spiritual life.

439
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:15,720
Speaker 2: Wow. And even like applying that on my own on

440
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:18,680
Speaker 2: what I've experienced quite recently. This is quite a profound

441
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:21,080
Speaker 2: conversation because I feel like it came at a perfect time.

442
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:24,280
Speaker 2: I think about, you know, my practice in many ways

443
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:28,320
Speaker 2: is like making this podcast, and it's thinking quite deeply

444
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:31,520
Speaker 2: about things which can eventually be confronting and that is

445
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:35,760
Speaker 2: most likely what happened in my situation where it was like, huh,

446
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 2: I can no longer find like a link between all

447
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:42,439
Speaker 2: of my experiences, and all these terrible things are happening

448
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:45,640
Speaker 2: in the world, and people are suffering, and people are

449
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 2: you know, sparing, and there's just all these things. And

450
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:51,960
Speaker 2: I've been really sitting in that like knowledge and thinking

451
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 2: about it a lot, and I think that the community

452
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:59,640
Speaker 2: that came around me in that time was incredibly important.

453
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 2: I speak about it in the episode where I spoke

454
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:05,439
Speaker 2: about this crisis. It was family. It was literally the counsel,

455
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:08,280
Speaker 2: it was it was the panel, it was family, it

456
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:11,239
Speaker 2: was my partner, it was my closest friends. And it

457
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 2: really did show me who my closest friends were as well,

458
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 2: which was quite interesting. And I kind of came to

459
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:19,760
Speaker 2: this conclusion. And I remember like being in my house

460
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:23,879
Speaker 2: and almost like pacing, like I would move from the

461
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 2: bedroom to the lounge room, to the kitchen to the loudroom,

462
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:28,840
Speaker 2: like it was a very circular thing. And one day

463
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:32,120
Speaker 2: I was like, I just think that maybe not the purpose,

464
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:33,840
Speaker 2: but what was the third What was the third one?

465
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:36,920
Speaker 2: I've just already forgotten it The path, The path yeah,

466
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:39,480
Speaker 2: and I think mine was like, the path is just

467
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:42,800
Speaker 2: to be love. To just be love, like that is

468
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 2: all you need to be, and that's going to come

469
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:49,400
Speaker 2: in many forms. But the way that you walk through

470
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:53,040
Speaker 2: life is in any single encounter with any single person

471
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 2: being environment, your job is to just be this like brilliant,

472
00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 2: bright orb that people can look to and say, Okay,

473
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 2: well this is love and this is kindness and this

474
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:06,000
Speaker 2: is warmth and the purpose of that. Obviously, right now

475
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 2: this feels like my purpose. The podcast is the way

476
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:12,879
Speaker 2: that I perform and I approach the path, but maybe

477
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:14,639
Speaker 2: in the future it's going to be something else. And

478
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 2: I think that also allowed me to not tie my

479
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 2: spirituality and my belief in life to a specific career,

480
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:23,679
Speaker 2: to what I was doing right now, even to like

481
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:27,440
Speaker 2: a specific relationship. That's why I really like that model

482
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:29,479
Speaker 2: that you've just introduced to us, right It's like, no

483
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:33,879
Speaker 2: matter what stage in life you're at, you can find

484
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:36,960
Speaker 2: a way to bring meaning to what you're doing. And

485
00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:40,239
Speaker 2: maybe that is by keeping an ongoing list of what

486
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:44,120
Speaker 2: you're being taught in the moment, keeping an ongoing list

487
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 2: of things that have felt pivotal to you, creating like

488
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 2: a narrative and a story throughout your life, and then

489
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 2: reflecting on community, reflecting on what your deep value is.

490
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 2: Is it love? Is it creativity? Is it generosity? I

491
00:28:56,880 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 2: think that is a really practical way to think about it.

492
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:05,080
Speaker 3: If you can envision a world where everyone does what

493
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:08,720
Speaker 3: you just said, let's just say it was all of

494
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 3: gen Z. Does we mean yes, which is walk a

495
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 3: pass of abundant love, then you will have turned the world. You'

496
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 3: have done it, gen Z, I know.

497
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:22,680
Speaker 2: And it's just, you know, it's wild to me that

498
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 2: I guess. Obviously, there are so many different challenges and

499
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:29,520
Speaker 2: thoughts on the road and real pivotal crises that are

500
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:33,880
Speaker 2: happening to us every single day. But sometimes I do

501
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:38,240
Speaker 2: just look at people and think, have you it's obviously

502
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:40,240
Speaker 2: been a while since it's crossed your mind that life

503
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 2: is short. Like I see people make decisions or get

504
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:46,320
Speaker 2: really caught up in small things, and I was like,

505
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:49,080
Speaker 2: it's you obviously, Like haven't had a reminder as of

506
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 2: recent that you don't get endless time here and that

507
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 2: this is very sacred. And maybe that's also the benefit

508
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:59,000
Speaker 2: of having that spiritual core as being able to make

509
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:02,560
Speaker 2: better decisions, decisions and being able to let stress go,

510
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 2: you know, an anxiety, let it flow through. You're still

511
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 2: experiencing it. Sometimes it's beyond your control. But being like

512
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 2: this is part of the kind of the CODs that

513
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:15,160
Speaker 2: I was done. When am I going to make of.

514
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:19,200
Speaker 3: This so you've just shared, I think is even more

515
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 3: important for people in their twenties, because well, let me

516
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:26,680
Speaker 3: ask you. I mean, it's my impression that people in

517
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 3: their twenties in some ways are very gifted by birth generation.

518
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 3: That there's more awareness, more openness in a good sense, sensitivity, perceptiveness,

519
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:42,600
Speaker 3: and that this notion that gen Z was more tuned,

520
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 3: more feeling is true. But because of that, it's even

521
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:51,760
Speaker 3: more important for gen Z to build the spiritual core

522
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 3: and walk a path, as you've described as the path

523
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:58,200
Speaker 3: of love, because you're going to feel things more.

524
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:02,040
Speaker 2: I think that you're right. I think that this generation

525
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 2: is also more in touch with what makes us different.

526
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:09,400
Speaker 2: There is less need for conformity, whether that is being

527
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 2: accepting of different you know, sexual or gender identity, or

528
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 2: whatever color your skin is, or your ethnicity, or the

529
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 2: power of your neurodivergence, whatever it is that makes you

530
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:22,200
Speaker 2: difference different. When more accepting of it, now like maybe

531
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:24,680
Speaker 2: that is also coming into it, do you think?

532
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 3: So, then we greet you with love. If I'm neurodivergent,

533
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 3: if I look the same or different than you, right,

534
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 3: greet me with love. So that's already your path of

535
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,200
Speaker 3: abundant love in action. And I would say gen Z's

536
00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 3: is for all generations on earth right now. You are

537
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 3: the path breakers for what I would call relational spirituality,

538
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 3: leading with love, welcoming everyone to the table. And where

539
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 3: I think the opportunity might be is in what you

540
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:57,800
Speaker 3: just shared, which is in your own being to hold

541
00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 3: deep love. Because even though gener he's so loving to

542
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 3: one another, you've just talked about a way where there's

543
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 3: also a relationship to the higher power or the universe

544
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 3: that lifts and guides you that you deserve as a

545
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:18,880
Speaker 3: soul on earth, love and connection as well as being

546
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:20,960
Speaker 3: a source of giving that to others.

547
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:25,760
Speaker 2: No, absolutely, I've got two final questions for you that

548
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:27,840
Speaker 2: might go off the path a little bit. Good.

549
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 3: I love that.

550
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:37,040
Speaker 2: I've got two final questions for you. So when I

551
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 2: asked people, I was like, what do you want to

552
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:43,600
Speaker 2: know about spirituality and its intersection with mental health? And

553
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:46,920
Speaker 2: a lot of people said, how does having a spiritual

554
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:51,400
Speaker 2: core impact something like anxiety or depression, which we would

555
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 2: typically say, or like the kind of general belief system

556
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 2: right now is it's quite biological, it's quite genetic. Where

557
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 2: does spirituality come into managing that lived experience?

558
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 3: For most of the twentieth century, you're completely right, people said, oh, well,

559
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 3: mental health is biologically based and spirituality is just some

560
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 3: airy fairy thing that has nothing to do with biology.

561
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:21,720
Speaker 3: But there's now a very rigorous, pure reviewed science that

562
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 3: shows that actually built into our biology is our seat

563
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:32,480
Speaker 3: of spiritual awareness. When we shared that beautiful council practice,

564
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:36,160
Speaker 3: there were very specific circuits that we've identified in the

565
00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:39,360
Speaker 3: MRI that we're running in your brain and my brain

566
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 3: and in all everyone's brain at the same time. The

567
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:45,480
Speaker 3: bonding network that lets us know we're loved and healed,

568
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:49,120
Speaker 3: the parietal that puts in and out hard boundaries. So

569
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 3: we're distinct, but we're also part of one family of life.

570
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:55,480
Speaker 3: When Universe a shift in our attention network so we

571
00:33:55,520 --> 00:34:01,960
Speaker 3: can receive and perceive surprising new guidance, we actually are

572
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:07,360
Speaker 3: biologically built to have a spiritual life. That doesn't mean

573
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:10,840
Speaker 3: that spirituality is just you know, a side effect of biology.

574
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:13,319
Speaker 3: It means that body, mind and soul were one, and

575
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:18,279
Speaker 3: there's a neurodocking station for spiritual awareness. So to back up,

576
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:21,960
Speaker 3: knowing that it's no longer you know, it is now

577
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 3: outdated to your point, and I'm so glad you put

578
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:27,839
Speaker 3: this front and center. It is outdated to say, oh,

579
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:30,640
Speaker 3: mental illness is biological. Spirituality isn't.

580
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 2: No.

581
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:36,400
Speaker 3: Spirituality like all of their human experiences, has biological underpinnings,

582
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:40,480
Speaker 3: a neuro seat in our brain. And when we strengthen

583
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:44,799
Speaker 3: our spiritual awareness, we are eighty percent less likely to

584
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:48,560
Speaker 3: become addicted. We are sixty percent more likely to recover

585
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 3: from bumps in our lives without becoming downward down major depression.

586
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:57,719
Speaker 3: We are far more resilient, we are far more able

587
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 3: to connect with people. But it's not not as simple

588
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:04,320
Speaker 3: a story as oh, there's happy people who are spiritual

589
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:07,560
Speaker 3: and never get depressed, and then there's unhappy people who

590
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:10,920
Speaker 3: just aren't as spiritual. That's not the story. It's actually

591
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:14,600
Speaker 3: a deeper story, which is in our twenties. As I

592
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:17,560
Speaker 3: started sharing with you today, when John broke up with me.

593
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:22,479
Speaker 3: There are times of unbelievable pain, but they are not

594
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:30,359
Speaker 3: necessarily medical depression. They're not necessarily psychopathology. Very often these

595
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:35,680
Speaker 3: are developmental depression. It's the knock at the door to

596
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 3: ask bigger questions, the existential questions that you opened with.

597
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:44,160
Speaker 3: What is my purpose? What is the meaning in my life?

598
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:47,200
Speaker 3: What am I supposed to do with my life? Can

599
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:50,319
Speaker 3: I trust human beings? And do I trust in love?

600
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 3: Even if I'm not necessarily loved back? How do I

601
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:57,080
Speaker 3: want to be in this world? And that process that

602
00:35:57,239 --> 00:36:02,800
Speaker 3: is built into our genes is a process of existential search.

603
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 3: When we hit our early twenties, our capacity for spirituality grows.

604
00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:12,320
Speaker 3: We can love even more, we can probe even more deeply.

605
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:17,120
Speaker 3: We can see into the deep, sacred, transcendent nature of life,

606
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:20,839
Speaker 3: in nature, in one another. We have these gifts that

607
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:24,480
Speaker 3: emerge in our twenties. But as this great gift of

608
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 3: spiritual awareness boots up, it often can feel like a

609
00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:32,480
Speaker 3: half empty glass of spirituality while it's coming online. It

610
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:35,600
Speaker 3: can feel empty, It can feel confusing, It can feel

611
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:37,719
Speaker 3: like how do I put my finger on this? And

612
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:41,400
Speaker 3: many people in their twenties say, you know, when I

613
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 3: don't let myself think about these questions, I get even

614
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:46,799
Speaker 3: more depressed. I have no choice I've got to take

615
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:51,920
Speaker 3: this on and so I'm not against medication, but medication

616
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:56,799
Speaker 3: alone is insufficient to address the most important work of

617
00:36:56,840 --> 00:37:00,719
Speaker 3: your entire life, which is building your spiritual core in

618
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:03,759
Speaker 3: your twenties based on science. And it's twenty five years

619
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:07,839
Speaker 3: a very good you know, top American Jernal Psychiatry Jerman,

620
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:11,480
Speaker 3: the American Medical Association top pier of view science. Depression

621
00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:15,160
Speaker 3: is a gateway to spiritual awakening. In our early twenties,

622
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:18,719
Speaker 3: it is, and often in our mid twenties, depression is

623
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:22,120
Speaker 3: a knock at the door, an existential struggle to awaken

624
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:25,880
Speaker 3: our deeper knowing, our seat of spiritual awareness. And once

625
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:29,839
Speaker 3: we build that, the next time something goes wrong, we

626
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 3: have built and ready a spiritual response to disappointment, a

627
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:39,160
Speaker 3: spiritual response to not knowing where I'm going, and that

628
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:44,520
Speaker 3: literally shows up in the brain as neuro protective against

629
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:46,440
Speaker 3: a recurrence of major depression.

630
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:49,880
Speaker 2: That's incredible. I love that there is this culmination of

631
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:54,480
Speaker 2: biology and then of you know, your imaging, and then

632
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:58,239
Speaker 2: also of this like profoundly intangible thing you know you

633
00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:02,360
Speaker 2: cannot reach, you reach and touch your spirituality. Also, we think,

634
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:04,799
Speaker 2: but you're literally saying no if you want to look

635
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:07,759
Speaker 2: inside your brain. If you wanted to poke around, you

636
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:10,600
Speaker 2: would find these paths. You would find these neurons, these

637
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:15,920
Speaker 2: synapses that are directly responsible for you, you know, having

638
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 2: a sense of being and a sense of place, like

639
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:23,239
Speaker 2: you said, the NeuroSTAT which is just so cool. And

640
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:28,680
Speaker 2: you know what's interesting as well is how outdated I'm

641
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:30,640
Speaker 2: thinking about, like when I did my degree and when

642
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:34,040
Speaker 2: I did like all my training, how outdated the current

643
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:39,800
Speaker 2: like the current system and education system is because only

644
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:42,520
Speaker 2: like maybe seven years ago, I remember sitting in a

645
00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:46,279
Speaker 2: class and being like, depression is biological and that is

646
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:50,439
Speaker 2: purely it and there is nothing more to it. It's

647
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:54,920
Speaker 2: inherited blah blah blah. And there was nothing about like experiences.

648
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:58,600
Speaker 2: There was nothing about deep questions. There was nothing about

649
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:03,799
Speaker 2: you know how strengthening everything else in your life and

650
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:07,240
Speaker 2: not just social connections, not just physical health, but actually

651
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:11,600
Speaker 2: thinking deeply and having a philosophy that might bind bad

652
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:15,200
Speaker 2: experience together might help. So it's really incredible that you're

653
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 2: putting it out there for this next generation of you know,

654
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:22,239
Speaker 2: a lot of psychology students listen to this show. A

655
00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:24,520
Speaker 2: lot of people who go into be counselors, and therapists

656
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:29,239
Speaker 2: are going to have a different perspective. So I'm going

657
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:32,880
Speaker 2: to ask you one final question. If you had to

658
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:37,880
Speaker 2: give three rapid fire practices that someone could do daily

659
00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:40,960
Speaker 2: to get to that point of having an awakened brain

660
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:46,640
Speaker 2: or building their spiritual core, what would you recommend.

661
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:50,560
Speaker 3: In my books The Awakened Brain, I list three practices

662
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:54,160
Speaker 3: that we use on the Columbia University campus. There now

663
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:57,280
Speaker 3: you're just done about thirty campuses in the United States.

664
00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:00,319
Speaker 3: One of them is hosting counsel, which we just shared

665
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:05,000
Speaker 3: because that is your direct connection to transcendent relationship, right

666
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:07,920
Speaker 3: your higher power, your higher self, and those who truly

667
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:11,200
Speaker 3: have your best interest in mine. The other two practices

668
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:14,680
Speaker 3: are called the Road of Life, which cultivates what you share,

669
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:17,640
Speaker 3: which is a stance, an operating manual of how to

670
00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:21,920
Speaker 3: engage in a dialogue with the universe. And then the

671
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:26,359
Speaker 3: third practice has to do with finding someone with whom

672
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:31,279
Speaker 3: you can share your spiritual path, because it's wonderful if

673
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:33,520
Speaker 3: you can go through whether you call it the Sanga

674
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:37,200
Speaker 3: or the fellowship or the journey group, but that you

675
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:41,480
Speaker 3: remember your practice, your people, you're passing your purpose. Your

676
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:45,080
Speaker 3: people are important, and you're creating people here. So in

677
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:47,760
Speaker 3: the Awaken Bran, I share these practices and I also

678
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:51,200
Speaker 3: share in the Awaken bring the references to all of

679
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:54,560
Speaker 3: these scientific articles so you can go online, pull up

680
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:57,759
Speaker 3: the article and say, you know, listen, I'd like to

681
00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:00,880
Speaker 3: share today in my counseling class or with my therapist.

682
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:05,600
Speaker 3: There's a scientific article that says spirituality is really important

683
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:09,239
Speaker 3: in making my way through despair and depression. That when

684
00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:12,839
Speaker 3: I'm recovering from depression, I'm building the spiritual core if

685
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:15,920
Speaker 3: I put my heart and mind and focus there. So

686
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:19,320
Speaker 3: it's intended to be empowering of your own birthright, of

687
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:22,960
Speaker 3: who you already are. There's no one who isn't spiritual.

688
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:26,759
Speaker 3: You are spiritual. It's not if it's how in your

689
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:30,800
Speaker 3: own journey you personally want to realize your great gift.

690
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:33,840
Speaker 2: What a beautiful way to finish the episode. And I

691
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:37,680
Speaker 2: want to say this book, The Awakened Brain, is it

692
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:38,440
Speaker 2: out right now.

693
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:42,480
Speaker 3: The Awakened Brain is out. It's stories and it's science

694
00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:44,200
Speaker 3: and its practices.

695
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:47,720
Speaker 2: And that is exactly what we talk about on this show,

696
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:52,200
Speaker 2: Like you can't have healing and mental clarity without the

697
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:55,600
Speaker 2: science and without the deep thoughts. So I really would

698
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:58,520
Speaker 2: recommend going out and getting this book. I'll leave a

699
00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:01,280
Speaker 2: link to it in the description of the episode, along

700
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:05,480
Speaker 2: with where we can find you and your Instagram, your Facebook,

701
00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:09,319
Speaker 2: your website, because I think that we need more of

702
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 2: these conversations. So thank you doctor Lisa for coming on

703
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:12,960
Speaker 2: the show.

704
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:17,680
Speaker 3: Well you are a magnificent voice for spiritual journey in

705
00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 3: this life. Thank you.

706
00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:23,160
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, what a beautiful compliment. I really appreciate that.

707
00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:26,879
Speaker 2: As always, if you enjoyed this episode, please feel free

708
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:29,279
Speaker 2: to follow along and leave a five star review on

709
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:32,799
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you are listening right now. If

710
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:35,880
Speaker 2: you have further thoughts about this discussion, dm me on

711
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:38,800
Speaker 2: Instagram at that Psychology Podcast. I want to have a

712
00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:40,479
Speaker 2: chat to you about it. I want to talk about

713
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:43,799
Speaker 2: what you think because it was incredibly moving for me,

714
00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:45,880
Speaker 2: and if you found that to be the same for you,

715
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:49,120
Speaker 2: please let me know. And we also take episode suggestions

716
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:50,680
Speaker 2: over there, so if you want to follow up episode,

717
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:53,439
Speaker 2: if you want more content like this, I also would

718
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:56,840
Speaker 2: love your feedback. Until next time, stay safe, be kind,

719
00:42:56,960 --> 00:42:59,919
Speaker 2: and be gentle to yourself, and we will talk very soon.

720
00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:00,279
Speaker 2: Be