1 00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:04,560 Speaker 1: Hello, I'm Scott Williams and this is the Bloomberg Business 2 00:00:04,559 --> 00:00:08,440 Speaker 1: of Sports podcast, where we thank you no Michael bar, 3 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:11,319 Speaker 1: We miss bar. What do we explore the big money 4 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:13,440 Speaker 1: issues in the world of sports. That's right, right, that's right, 5 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:15,600 Speaker 1: that's what we do, all right. Today we begin with 6 00:00:15,720 --> 00:00:19,720 Speaker 1: I love this John Henry considering making an offer to 7 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 1: buy a piece of NASCAR. He's already there, he owns 8 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:25,599 Speaker 1: half of roush Fenway Racing, been there for a number 9 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 1: of years. I think it's the kind of thing NASCAR neat, 10 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:33,120 Speaker 1: a little maybe a little shot in the blood from 11 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:36,640 Speaker 1: an organization that has some marketing know how in my 12 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:39,640 Speaker 1: global and nature. With the Liverpool investment, you say, yeah this, 13 00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:41,040 Speaker 1: I mean this is a story that that that you 14 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 1: broke earlier this week. Um, yeah, this seems like a 15 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:47,000 Speaker 1: would be a good, good landing area for NASCAR. Is 16 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:48,360 Speaker 1: is he looking at the whole thing? Is he looking 17 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 1: at just a piece of it? Yeah, we don't know. 18 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:51,440 Speaker 1: We know he's looking at that's what That's what we know. 19 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:53,320 Speaker 1: We know he's looking at it. Some sort of investment 20 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:55,800 Speaker 1: is certainly getting getting kind of folded into all the 21 00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:58,320 Speaker 1: other work he does, obviously with with the red Sox 22 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:04,080 Speaker 1: with Liverpool, his extensive knowledge of NASCAR already, Um, that 23 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 1: seems like a good result for NASCAR. And I think 24 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:08,039 Speaker 1: it also says something right that that someone who is 25 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 1: intimately familiar with it. But we talk a lot about, 26 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:15,360 Speaker 1: you know, NASCAR's declines, certainly from a from a reading standpoint, etcetera. 27 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 1: It says something that someone who has already you know, 28 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:20,959 Speaker 1: tied his business into into NASCAR is looking at maybe 29 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 1: even doing more with it. So I don't know if 30 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:24,560 Speaker 1: this is where we need bar If somebody would have 31 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:30,600 Speaker 1: called him Summers, if somebody would have called bar is 32 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:35,600 Speaker 1: our NASCAR expert. He knows all things NASCAR. We admittedly 33 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 1: are not the NASCAR, but he's in this space, like 34 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:42,480 Speaker 1: has roushed way nothing that I'm aware of if they 35 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:46,120 Speaker 1: done anything that seems revolutionary, And I do not know 36 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 1: Matt Kenzi is one of their Okay, but like what 37 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:52,680 Speaker 1: you know what else? Everybody thought Comcast was gonna make 38 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 1: this purchase, and then they were focused on the Sky acquisition. 39 00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:58,000 Speaker 1: So then all of a sudden there's no Comcast and 40 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:00,240 Speaker 1: it was it's quiet for a while, like Goldman is 41 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:02,560 Speaker 1: helping them out on on the sale. So there's been 42 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:05,160 Speaker 1: this quiet and this was the first real piece of 43 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:08,919 Speaker 1: news to come out since we found out that this 44 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 1: is going on. And we besides the friends family buying 45 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:14,239 Speaker 1: I S and yeah, I wish you should men. Yeah, 46 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:16,919 Speaker 1: they're they're they're one point nine billion dollar offer to 47 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:18,920 Speaker 1: to to buy up I s C, which is the 48 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 1: International Speedway Corporation company that holds a lot of the 49 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:25,799 Speaker 1: almost all the race tracks on on the NASCAR schedule. Um, 50 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 1: that was a consolidation that was expected to be kind 51 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:33,240 Speaker 1: of a to make NASCAR a little bit more lucrative 52 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 1: or a little more enticing for buyers. Suddenly having these 53 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 1: synergies between NASCAR itself and the tracks they run. So 54 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:42,799 Speaker 1: let's solicit some opinions from our like our loyal listeners. 55 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:45,000 Speaker 1: Steve Harrowitz Inner Circle. I know at some point you're 56 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:47,639 Speaker 1: probably gonna be on a bicycle listening this. Let's give 57 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 1: anice either direct text or tweet two, both Van and myself. 58 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:53,440 Speaker 1: What are we to make of John Henry going after Nascar? 59 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:55,720 Speaker 1: I don't know. Uh, let's move on. We are now 60 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 1: talking about wait a minute, another story. I did what 61 00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 1: have you done this week? It was my birthday? Yeah? 62 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 1: Should we tell what number birthdays. Since we've talked about 63 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:08,680 Speaker 1: your crow's feet on the thirty one, I told you 64 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 1: it was gonna happen sooner than you are in. You 65 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 1: are in across the rubicon. All right, well peaky, well 66 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:16,359 Speaker 1: we're almost there. This would be a weird segway, but 67 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:21,800 Speaker 1: your thirty one twenty five years ago, Rupert Murdoch utilized 68 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 1: little Bart Simpson in the NFL to start this media company, 69 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:29,360 Speaker 1: not as Fox. Now we have New Fox gonna focus 70 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:32,400 Speaker 1: solely online. I mean, the strategy is all live. And 71 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 1: if you're talking live, you've got two things. You've got 72 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 1: sports and you've got news. That's the strategy and been 73 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 1: these are the things that they're hoping attractive. Yeah. How 74 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:43,320 Speaker 1: how different is that from from old Fox? The different 75 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:46,800 Speaker 1: is like the old Fox. Yeah, it's it seems it's 76 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:48,800 Speaker 1: it seems similar. You you have to sit down with 77 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 1: with Eric Shanks, CEO of Fox Sports. UM, yeah, I 78 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:57,120 Speaker 1: don't think anything in that overarching thing really surprises me. Right, 79 00:03:57,160 --> 00:04:00,120 Speaker 1: we we we understand the media business. We understand know 80 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 1: the things that have been disrupted by you know, companies 81 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 1: like Hulu and Netflix and uh live sports so far 82 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:08,839 Speaker 1: and and News are the two things that kind of 83 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 1: stay away from that on demand bubble that seems to 84 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 1: be increasingly dominated, you know, by HBO, Showtime, Hulu, Netflix. 85 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:19,040 Speaker 1: You mentioned Netflix. It was funny. In their last quarterly 86 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:22,120 Speaker 1: earnings report, Netflix actually said that this is a great 87 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:25,720 Speaker 1: strategy and they expect more linear TV to follow this. 88 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 1: Now the questions, of course, I posted Eric Shanks, where 89 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:32,240 Speaker 1: the you know, the price of sports keeps going up? 90 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:35,800 Speaker 1: So at what point does the R O I and 91 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:37,839 Speaker 1: and the price you know where where do they intersect? 92 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:39,679 Speaker 1: And he and he said not all sports are created equal. 93 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:43,039 Speaker 1: At some point you will see some intersection of those lines, 94 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 1: but it won't be in the Blue Chippies, which is 95 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:47,280 Speaker 1: of course Major League Baseball. And and they just did 96 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 1: a huge five billion dollar extension, uh, the NFL. Great line, 97 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:54,159 Speaker 1: by the way, I said, what's top of mind? What 98 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:56,240 Speaker 1: would be top of mind for you right now? And 99 00:04:56,279 --> 00:04:59,479 Speaker 1: I loved this. He said, if I yesterday signed a 100 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 1: twenty year extension with the NFL, top of mind for 101 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:06,400 Speaker 1: me would be renewing the NFL in twenty one years. Yeah. 102 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 1: If you if you at the League office on Park 103 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:11,240 Speaker 1: Avenue and you read that, don't you lick your chops 104 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 1: going into the next round. This content really wants. The 105 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:19,960 Speaker 1: better word is it's not once, it's it's a need. 106 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 1: It's not a want. Yeah, it's funny. From a negotiating standpoint, 107 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:26,560 Speaker 1: it seems like a curious laying down of cards of 108 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:29,039 Speaker 1: some ways. And Fox obviously has the you know, they've 109 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 1: got that Sunday night package they did this year, they 110 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 1: had the Thursday night package for the first time. They 111 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 1: promised ratings would be up and they were. They were, 112 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:39,679 Speaker 1: So you wonder what else, like what you've got baseball? 113 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 1: I mean, they've got properties. You know you've got you've 114 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:45,599 Speaker 1: got w W smack down outcoming Friday, so that that 115 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:48,279 Speaker 1: not locks down Friday night. And he was also talking 116 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:50,440 Speaker 1: about time of your football was so important to Fox 117 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:52,920 Speaker 1: because of time of year in the fall, this is 118 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:55,840 Speaker 1: when advertisers are spending more and consumers are spending more. 119 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 1: He wanted top of mind people to think of Fox 120 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 1: when they thought of football and fall mission accomplished something 121 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:03,880 Speaker 1: else to mention, for the first time, I've read this 122 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:05,600 Speaker 1: a couple of days ago. I think for the first 123 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:08,560 Speaker 1: time in twenty plus years, ESPN two is not the 124 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 1: second ranked sports uh sports cable network ESPN obviously the 125 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:16,480 Speaker 1: giant at number one, but I believe NBCSN and Fox 126 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 1: Sports one have both jumped ESPN two. Um, so there's 127 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 1: some momentum behind what Fox is doing as well. And 128 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:25,000 Speaker 1: when I asked, what's the biggest risk, by the way, 129 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:26,839 Speaker 1: what's the bigger I mean you always, if you have 130 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:29,719 Speaker 1: a strategy, you got to say, what are the risks 131 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:32,760 Speaker 1: should this strategy? Right? And Shanks could only come up 132 00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:35,159 Speaker 1: with one if something for some reason, and he could 133 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:38,640 Speaker 1: not pinput if for some reason people decided to turn 134 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:41,039 Speaker 1: away from Live and he said, if anything, the trend 135 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:43,240 Speaker 1: lines are going the other way. People are more attracted 136 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 1: to Live. Yeah, I mean, certainly sports gambling is going 137 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 1: to have it puts a puts a bigger emphasis then 138 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 1: we've had before. So is there is this a strategy 139 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 1: with no risk other than maybe price escalation, and price 140 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:56,600 Speaker 1: escalation I think is a huge risk, right, And if 141 00:06:56,640 --> 00:06:59,240 Speaker 1: you lock in the NFL for ten years and suddenly 142 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 1: you know, the business goes down and the other concern 143 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:05,120 Speaker 1: obviously I think and Fox is obviously has their own 144 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:06,960 Speaker 1: you know, O T T platform as well, and they're 145 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:09,960 Speaker 1: working through digital um and they haven't they they're investor 146 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 1: in a platform called Caffeine Beyond the Sports Big on 147 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:14,400 Speaker 1: it again. It's it's it's sort of a live social 148 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 1: interactive Yeah, I would say the other, you know, the 149 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 1: other major concern is some major major shift in AD dollars. 150 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:21,600 Speaker 1: We haven't seen that the AD dollars shift from TV 151 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 1: to digital quite yet. There was an industry um if 152 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:30,720 Speaker 1: there was a massive shift there, Yeah, I would imagine 153 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 1: it might catch some some TV folks off card. And 154 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 1: I'm playing the roll of bar today. But you like 155 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:36,880 Speaker 1: the third one, so you introduced the sturb, I'm stepping back. Yeah. 156 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 1: So also today that if you remember, we've talked a 157 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:42,200 Speaker 1: number of times about this anti trust case against the 158 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 1: n c A A led by legendary supposed to stay 159 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 1: away from wards like Wednesday, led by legendary sports labor 160 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:52,840 Speaker 1: lawyer Jeff Kessler. They had their trial back in September. 161 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 1: This week there was the final questions from Judge Claudia 162 00:07:57,360 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 1: Wilkin about the case before she gives her final rule. 163 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 1: She kind of opened the discussion by saying, hey, we 164 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:05,840 Speaker 1: can all agree that the NZA is violating any trust 165 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 1: right you know, and you can see the you can 166 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 1: see the plaintiffs nodding, you know, and and the n 167 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:13,840 Speaker 1: c A lawyer is going, uh, we can't agree. We 168 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:16,239 Speaker 1: don't want to agree on that. The judge seems pretty 169 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 1: set on the idea that the NS rules are in 170 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 1: any trust violation and what she obviously seems more conflicted 171 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:25,320 Speaker 1: on him. This is the big ruling that she's gonna 172 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 1: have to make, and it's gonna come at some point 173 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:29,680 Speaker 1: in the coming weeks or months. How much do you 174 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 1: penalize or force a change in that right because she 175 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:36,040 Speaker 1: seems very reticent about totally opening up the market. But 176 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 1: what was the dollar figure? That doesn't change the model? Yes, exactly, 177 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:41,240 Speaker 1: And that's kind of what she's asking about. That's what 178 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:45,120 Speaker 1: she's curious about. Um. Suggestion of it got a suggestion, 179 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:50,079 Speaker 1: don't more than zero right now? I believe, I believe 180 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 1: that the institutional side is anything more than cost of 181 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:57,560 Speaker 1: attendance changes the model, which is what they've already agreed, yeh, 182 00:08:57,559 --> 00:08:59,439 Speaker 1: which is, you know, a different stance than they gave 183 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 1: two years ago before the attendance, which should be said 184 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:05,440 Speaker 1: was was the same judge. Um. So it kind of 185 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:08,400 Speaker 1: gave a little glimpse into the closing arguments weren't done 186 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:10,679 Speaker 1: in person, they were done been writing. So this was 187 00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:12,480 Speaker 1: kind of her last chance to ask a bunch of 188 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:14,640 Speaker 1: questions to try to get a get a sense. She 189 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:17,120 Speaker 1: went back to the same idea, how much would would 190 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 1: paying players effect both their integration into like the greater 191 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:23,960 Speaker 1: fabric of the campus and also uh their ability to 192 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:25,959 Speaker 1: get an education? You know. The n c A says 193 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:30,559 Speaker 1: it would affect in a huge amount both of those things. 194 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 1: The Jeff Kessler, in his side argue that there has 195 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:37,000 Speaker 1: been no proof that that happens um but just a 196 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 1: reminder that you know, in the next coming weeks or months, 197 00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:42,320 Speaker 1: we're going to get a ruling on this, and this 198 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 1: could fundamentally change college sports forever. You know, I know 199 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 1: there are conferences and there are schools out there that 200 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:50,840 Speaker 1: are preparing for a world in which she comes down 201 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:53,439 Speaker 1: and suddenly, you know, leaves it up to the conferences 202 00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 1: to say, hey, there's now no cap on on what 203 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 1: you can allow, and you guys need to sit down 204 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:00,520 Speaker 1: and huddle together and say, listen, is what we want 205 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 1: our schools to offer. It could change, you know, the 206 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:06,839 Speaker 1: competitiveness of college basketball, especially Jacks Warburg said, we'll get 207 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:09,640 Speaker 1: together with like minded schools and do our thing. Yeah, 208 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:13,120 Speaker 1: so you know we'll drop sports all together. There is 209 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 1: there is a chance at some point that that when 210 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:18,600 Speaker 1: this ruling comes down, there's gonna be a tectonic shift. 211 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:21,040 Speaker 1: All right. This is the Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast. 212 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:23,280 Speaker 1: I'm Scott Sashnik. Along with that and Kobe Williams. We're 213 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:26,839 Speaker 1: here each and every Monday, Wednesday and Thursday exploring the 214 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:28,880 Speaker 1: world of money in sports. You can join us again 215 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 1: at the end of the week when we speak with 216 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:34,319 Speaker 1: Action Networks CEO Patrick Keene. You're listening to Bloomberg Business 217 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 1: of Sports UM Bloomberg Radio around the world and online 218 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 1: wherever you download your podcast.